Real Estate Investing for Beginners: From W-2 Engineer to 130 Units | Joey Mack

Speaker 1 What up, the science of flipping family? I have an incredible guest here. Now, this guest I have known for years, he is a part of the REI Live community.
He's an active investor now.

Speaker 1 He's burnt his boats, he's gone all in,

Speaker 1 and he's doing some really cool stuff.

Speaker 1 And I want to share his story with you guys so that you guys can look at him as a beacon of hope that you too can create something really special in your business and in your life.

Speaker 1 Joey Mac, my, my REI Live member is here, brother. What's going on?

Speaker 2 Hey, hey, Justin, glad to be on. Super excited.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So by the way, when I say REI Live, when you look it up, it's reilive.co, C-O. It is not.com.
So REILive.co. Go look it up, check it out.
That's where Joey's at.

Speaker 1 So I know you told me when I invited you to be on this podcast, you said, I never told you this, but this was one of my like little boxes I wanted to check being in your world.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. I've been wanting to be on your podcast since we've been working together since about 2017.

Speaker 1 So isn't that great, dude? Well, you deserve it, bro. You deserve it.
And so I want the people to, you know, understand more your story, your origin story, right?

Speaker 1 Like from the nine-to-five grind as an engineer. We'll get all the way to real time today, what you're doing and how you're doing it.

Speaker 1 But let's start a little bit with that origin story so people can kind of take that and

Speaker 1 look at that about what they're doing and, you know, the moves that they might want to be making. So talk a little bit about that origin story for yourself.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So,

Speaker 2 I started at

Speaker 2 Rich Dad, Poor Dad, a lot of people, right? They read that book and that just starts the trajectory. So, I was in college.
I was going to be an engineer. I read the book.

Speaker 2 I got done and I went, oh my gosh, I don't want to be an engineer anymore. I got to figure out what this is.
And I finished school and I had been, I mean, I bought the, I went to the Rich Dad program.

Speaker 2 I bought their program for whatever their teaser was and then I started this process got on podcasts that's how I started listening to guys like Sean Terry and then the way I got connected with you was

Speaker 2 I had bought up one of his programs and then

Speaker 2 you and Kent Clothier ended up being the coaches on it and so I was going through doing the training I knew nothing as far as doing a deal whatsoever didn't know what that looked like and I started sending out some direct mail in Colorado and got a landed a pre-foreclosure and so I mean completely no clue what I was doing but it's it's about action and just doing it and so like you always say I mean it's not about what you're doing it's just taking steps every day every day imperfect action right I think there's a lot of people out there and maybe you were maybe you weren't you obviously were not ultimately you were not this person but there's a lot of people out there that whether it be YouTube or podcasts like this and they continue to be a student which is great but if you don't do anything then you're going to be a lifelong student and nothing in your life is actually going to change, right?

Speaker 1 And so if you're sitting here listening to this and wanting to hear more of Joey's story, one of the biggest takeaways, if there's only one takeaway you take away from this, is he actually got off his butt and took action, right?

Speaker 1 First, starting by buying Sean Terry's course, which led to seeing video and trainings from me, which led to him researching me, which then led to him sending direct mail, which led to him not knowing what he's doing, but just like getting on the phone with the homeowner, which again, not knowing is doing, just contracting the property incorrectly.

Speaker 1 So, I say all that because

Speaker 1 what he said without saying it is he did all this stuff incorrectly. But the key is he did the stuff, right? So, that's if you take nothing else, guys, learn this part.
So, keep going, Joy.

Speaker 2 So, with that first deal, it was a in Colorado pre-foreclosures, you have to have a special type of contract.

Speaker 2 And I was just using that blank, you know, one-page contract that you get when you first start. And so

Speaker 2 I built a bunch of rapport. I got to know the people.
They liked me.

Speaker 2 My offer, I had no clue if it was a good offer, but I just threw a number that I thought based on what I knew for the market as I'd been learning. And

Speaker 2 sure enough, it was a good number because I went to a buyer that I had met through Craigslist.

Speaker 2 I called him and he's like, yeah, I'll take it. And then they found another offer.

Speaker 2 And the thing about pre-foreclosures in Colorado, if you don't do it right, which is what I had done, you have to give them a certain amount of time.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 2 they had another offer come in higher than mine. I knew that that number would still work.
So I just called them. I said, if I can match that, would you still do this? And they were good with it.

Speaker 2 And so then the buyer came in, helped me with the right contract and getting it set up. And then made our way to a closing.

Speaker 2 And that built a relationship from there that I started doing some deals with them and kind of pressed on further and through.

Speaker 1 Now, that buyer, did that buyer continue to buy any deals from you, or was that more of a one, one and done scenario?

Speaker 2 They ended, so it's funny, one of the buyers, so they were partners, but one of the buyers and I ended up being roommates at a certain point. We lived together and we're doing some deals together.

Speaker 1 No kidding.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so it built some relationships there. And I mean, I think besides just effort, that's the other thing that people miss out on in real estate is the networking and the relationships.

Speaker 2 And you talked about REI Live. That's a huge piece of why I'm so directly connected with that because you build relationships and you network and you find ways to make deals and make connections.
So.

Speaker 1 Well, and that kind of gives me shivers to hear that, dude, because this is like a life mission for me. I genuinely love it.

Speaker 1 I know you know that because you're close to me, like to the point where we now have structured a strategic partnership where we're going to start doing deals together. And

Speaker 1 the hope is we do a... boatload and like create this incredible thing together right where again i preach to these people i don't need to get rich off you i want to get rich with you.

Speaker 1 That's the phase of life I'm in. And so now that you've been with me so long, we're going to start doing stuff together.
But that's because the person you are, right?

Speaker 1 Is you are intentional in creating the relationship. You show up.
You do the work.

Speaker 1 You know, you're not always doing it right.

Speaker 1 So for those, again, kind of, I always want to pull those things out that you guys can take from these episodes is like, he's talking about being intentional with the people, the networking.

Speaker 1 Don't just like go to a RIA meeting and exchange a card. Like make the call, invite to coffee, sit down with people, start a relationship.

Speaker 1 Because one of my first mentors in real estate back in 2006, I believe it was.

Speaker 1 Yes, I'm old. I understand that.

Speaker 1 Back in 2006, he said, not every meeting is a direct connection to a paycheck, but every meeting has potential to be a direct connection to a paycheck.

Speaker 1 So don't underestimate the meetings you're taking. And sitting down, you know, you might go meet with Johnny, who you met at a RIA meeting.

Speaker 1 You're like, I don't know why I'm really meeting with him, but you do.

Speaker 1 A year and a half from now, you might come across a deal with Johnny and make a whole bunch of money. And it's because that first meeting a year and a half ago, right?

Speaker 1 And so, guys and gals, like be very intentional with this. This is one key way to get actual consistent deal flows by through your network, right?

Speaker 1 Realtors, wholesalers, buyers, homeowners, asking for referrals. So, like, lean into what he's saying here is really important.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 people want to work with, and I don't know who said it, people want to work with people that they like and trust. And you can't get that from just a phone call or a letter out in the mail.

Speaker 2 All my best deals have come from consistent follow-up and building a relationship with the seller.

Speaker 1 Yeah, now, so that deal gets done.

Speaker 1 What's the next chapter? You get the first deal, you kind of dust it off, like, wow, this actually works.

Speaker 1 How much did you make on that deal, by the way?

Speaker 2 Like, it's 5,000 bucks. And I mean, as far as that, that'd be gross, not net.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But still, I mean, it's 5 grand more. And even if you made half of that, right? Like, okay, well, now what I always tell people is now you have certainty and you have confidence.
Yes.

Speaker 1 It was like holy moly. This actually works.
This isn't some thing out there that people just sell you. This actually can make you money.

Speaker 2 Yep. It was the proof.
It was that thing that I went, oh, okay, I can do this. Now, how do I do it better and more?

Speaker 1 That's right. And so next chapter, what do you close that deal? What's the next year or so? What does that all look like?

Speaker 2 I started working with those buyers a bunch more. So that's how we started developing a relationship.
They knew that I was good at connecting and talking with people and building relationships.

Speaker 2 And so, I mean, it was a gorilla hustle from there.

Speaker 2 I think just about every deal came in a different lead flow from there. I had a Craigslist one that came off of it.
I had a creative deal where I actually leveraged my credit.

Speaker 2 and bought a deal with somebody and then they just refined me out and basically wholesaled it. That was the way I got my wholesale fee.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Man. And now, are you this whole time, are you only doing it in your home market? Because I think everyone needs to know where you're at.

Speaker 2 I was still in Colorado at that time, and that's the only place I was doing it was in Colorado. And it was hard to get smoking deals for me.

Speaker 1 I found well, it's still to this very moment, Joey, right? Like, think about what you're doing. Who's getting a smoking deal, right? Like,

Speaker 1 it's hard. It is just a lot of work.
And so, even at my place, and like

Speaker 1 I think one of our members, Hector, Hector and us, we did a $17,000 deal. Like these days, that's a nice wholesale deal.
Like that is nice these days. Right.
Yeah. And

Speaker 1 yeah, so smoking deals, like right now, what we're seeing both in REI Live and our own business, like on average, we're somewhere around 10 to 12 G's total.

Speaker 1 Right. But, you know, that includes, that means there's a lot of five pounders in there, six pounders, seven pounders, and then there's a 17, right?

Speaker 1 But that's, that's the point is today that it's not um not easy to go get a smoking deal yeah

Speaker 1 if i can

Speaker 1 you were you were on the grind now when did you quit your job because you started as a w-2 employee full you know this is your side hustle yeah when did you make the decision to quit this year is when i we pulled the trigger in april i i quit my job and it was nerve-wracking and i think i've i've put in more hours and more work than when i was working at a job but it's it's more fulfilling i'm happier i mean it it's more time with the kids we were just talking this morning you're in bed with the kids and you know it's like listen a lot of people will give their life to their job like they will literally work 60 hours a week for a boss yep meanwhile people in our space of entrepreneurship whether it's real estate or not they just feel like oh i'm doing this so i don't have to spend time working And it's actually the opposite.

Speaker 1 The reality is if you want to make a lot more money or if you want to build something special at all, you're actually going to probably put in more work but you get to do it on your own business the pride that comes with that and the enjoyment like you said you're happier now than when you were working at your job and you probably work more yeah that that is like invaluable to be happy i wake up and i start working and i before i'm going to bed i'm working it just is i mean hey listen we're doing this podcast on a saturday we're both working right i mean it doesn't stop it just but again it creates the happiness and the joy and the opportunity to do the things that we really do love yeah um So

Speaker 1 that second year, or you know, you get your first deal. How many deals do you do within that first year to two years? Like, what does that look like for you?

Speaker 2 Every lead source varied and every deal varied. And I just, like I said, I scrapped whatever deal together I could.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 I was working with those buyers that originally bought from me. And I started using them to build that relationship.
They were teaching me how to run numbers better.

Speaker 2 They were teaching me about the market and giving me tips on contracts and all sorts of things. And so that just was a huge launching pad further from there.

Speaker 1 So you were leveraging your buyers in what I believe to be the most brilliant way. You understood their buying parameters and you started to go look for their type of deals, right?

Speaker 1 And that's this goes back to networking and building relationships. A lot of people in our space, especially at volume, they treat their buyers transactionally.
They don't even get to know them.

Speaker 1 They just take their assignment paperwork. Like they don't even know the person is, what they buy, why they buy.
They just know they're buying it.

Speaker 1 I believe that to be a massive mistake. I believe understanding, like, you give that buyer a call.
Hey, awesome that we're getting this done. What is your real criteria? How are you looking at?

Speaker 1 How do you underwrite construction? Do you look at it where you're going to replace everything or not replace everything? Are you, are you doing electrical every single time?

Speaker 1 Are you doing, and understanding those little things and those little nuances can help you become a better acquisition person. So when you're hustling,

Speaker 1 you're hustling to go find them the properties that you know they're they're going to buy. Yes.

Speaker 1 That's that's going to be really important. So you're W-2,

Speaker 1 you get what? Your first year, your first two years. How many deals? I don't know if you'll remember, but how many deals do you think you did in your first year to two?

Speaker 2 Probably about seven.

Speaker 1 And they took me.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And it was just scraping by whatever I could on any of them.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I ever actually made a net profit on them, but they were doing deals and I was getting experience and I was learning as I was going. And then

Speaker 2 that would have been probably that 2017, 18 until almost 2020. Yeah.
And then we took a short break in there. And that's when I was more into the W-2 job doing what I was doing.

Speaker 2 And then we started getting back into it. I got married.
Actually, one of those buyers was in my wedding. And then, or not in my wedding, but he was at my wedding.
And then

Speaker 2 we started looking for rental properties. And then that's where I had leveraged all the knowledge I had developed.
We had connected with you and started doing some trainings with you again.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, it was kind of a, it wasn't a continual path of you and i being together but we started back in about 2017 and then in 2020 ish is that or would have been about 20

Speaker 1 covet so covet hit in 2020 and i think you jumped into one of my um like challenges or something yeah and you're like wow okay if i really do this strategy i can get back to it yeah and so i think you even i think at some point you even I don't know if you reached out to me directly or something, but like you came to me with this concept of

Speaker 1 I have more interest in building wealth through rentals than being transactional. However, I'm aware I need to be transactional to some extent.

Speaker 1 But my real bigger passion, and by the way, if you're listening to this, like that should be all of our bigger passion.

Speaker 1 Like being a transactional real estate investor, wholesaling and fixing, flipping, that is transactional. You can make a lot of money, but it's not fulfilling and it doesn't create much, right?

Speaker 1 And so that should be all of our reasons to be in real estate is to be able to have that ability to create wealth, generate actual legacy and wealth.

Speaker 1 And at some point, whenever that day is, to be able to let every doll go and just sit back and get paid.

Speaker 1 But you came to me with that. And how's that journey going for you so far? Oh, man.

Speaker 2 It's so

Speaker 2 the we got, you and I have gotten connected multiple times in my journey of

Speaker 2 doing real estate because it was that initial and then there was a time off. And then I actually got connected with one of your students.

Speaker 2 Why am I blanking on his name here?

Speaker 2 Out of Denver, we did mobile homes together. So I was doing some mobile home flipping with him.

Speaker 1 All right. I'll get back to you.
John Broken. John Broken.
John Broken. Oh, yeah.
John.

Speaker 2 We got connected there again. And I think that's how I first got back to following you specifically.
And then there was a gap.

Speaker 2 And then this last time was when we started doing coaching together again.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I got in. We started doing your challenge, your program.
It was about, for me, it's about, was about knowledge and adding on rentals. And that's where we started going.

Speaker 2 And we've been with you for the wholesale programs and this REI live now.

Speaker 2 It's just built the relationship, again, relationships from there, networking from there. I've leveraged your knowledge to build out the rental properties I have so far.

Speaker 2 So then that fast forwards us to our first rental property. We had started working with you.
That's when we got our first rental about the same time. Nice.

Speaker 2 We ran the numbers based off of stuff you told us to look at, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I probably wouldn't have had any clue. And was it a great deal? Probably not, but it, it's cash flowing.
So it's a deal for now.

Speaker 2 And then we just kept buying rentals from there and have been working with you since.

Speaker 1 So now, how are rentals, right? Everyone, everyone is seduced by having rentals, right? It's seductive. And you're building wealth and passive money.
And so let's talk rentals for a second.

Speaker 1 What's been your experience? How many do you have now? Four?

Speaker 2 I have seven doors.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was going to say like eight doors, but how many roofs?

Speaker 2 What is that? Because one of them is a fourplex. So I got four buildings.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And then we just partnered, because I guess I, I don't know if I mentioned this to you recently. I partnered on 125

Speaker 2 apartment units with a group.

Speaker 1 Nice. Okay.
Yeah. What's your role in that?

Speaker 2 I so I'm doing the property management for the buildings. So we got involved.
It's another one of those networking connections with people.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so

Speaker 1 we,

Speaker 2 you want to get into that story or just kind of the quick?

Speaker 1 Yeah, just the quick.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I connected with one of the guys that had some buildings because I was looking to see if I could buy them from him.

Speaker 2 He was having struggles with his property management, which is probably pretty consistent across the board for most people.

Speaker 2 And so we do it for our own rentals and we're pretty structured and strategic about it. And so he offered up being a business partner to rent to manage his.

Speaker 2 building and then they ended up acquiring a building within a week of us agreeing to do that. And so, we went from the seven units to about 130 units that we have under management.

Speaker 1 That's great. Now, are you going to be building a property management company like a true pro or just when you get equity, you'll manage it as part of your equity? That's your equity earnings.

Speaker 2 That's our equity earned right now. And so, it may lead to a property management company.
So,

Speaker 2 it's not the goal right now. The goal is just keep building

Speaker 2 the portfolio of rentals and leveraging from there. So, I mean, if a property management company happens, it happens.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I would tell you, just as a piece of advice for all people out there, like

Speaker 1 spreading yourself too thin with too many different verticals can be challenging, right?

Speaker 1 So, making sure you have some level, you know, you guys know my story, but like build down before you build up because you want to make sure you have enough depth. to secure what you're doing, right?

Speaker 1 If it's all on Joey's shoulders, dude, there's going to be a bandwidth issue, frankly, right?

Speaker 1 You know, having 130 doors or whatever you have, like, and you're managing all of it, that is not a simple feat, let alone you still need to be transactional so you can make income, so you can pay your bills and all these other things.

Speaker 1 So be aware of it, right?

Speaker 1 And be aware of what you're trying to do, because I think most people in this space get in for, I want to get rich or I want to build wealth, but then they get sidetracked with different ways of doing all these different things.

Speaker 1 So get clarity, I would tell you.

Speaker 1 Not saying this is bad for you. I'm just saying, like, just make sure you're staying in the path of what's going to keep your momentum going.
Right.

Speaker 2 And so, part of that is building out systems. We've already got maintenance people.

Speaker 2 We've got cleaners. We've got people that we're looking at to kind of take over the role of daily property management.
As of right now, that's pretty much me and my wife. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But we're building that into pushing that to somebody else to where I just manage all the managers or manage people instead of the property.

Speaker 1 So, well, that's great. Yeah.
Now, what is

Speaker 1 what is your life look like right now? What is your main focus to do deals? And by the way, when you got started, to go back to get started, do you have a big marketing budget?

Speaker 1 Were you throwing five or 10 grand a month at marketing or were you just bootstrapping it and just doing whatever it took?

Speaker 2 Bootstrap. So when I first started, I maybe was sending out a

Speaker 2 thousand mailers a month, which really isn't very many.

Speaker 1 No, so it's a thousand bucks a month, give or take travel 500 bucks a month, 600 bucks a month.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and so it and that for me, it just I didn't see the return on it, and maybe it was because I didn't have that volume there.

Speaker 2 And so that's where I really started doing the net, the networking and the gorilla type marketing.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 2 go through and I do a lot where I look on the MLS.

Speaker 2 And I think the best tip I can give people for that is don't look at as,

Speaker 2 and I think this is real estate in general. Too many people go,

Speaker 2 they want instantaneous one-time. I hit you one time with a phone call and they never touch it again.

Speaker 2 The big thing is I put them in my system and I follow them until they either sell or they fall out. And then when they fall out, I call the owner directly.

Speaker 2 And that's where you're going to get your real leads.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so we talked about this earlier, right?

Speaker 1 Anyone who's going, even, even a realtor, let's just talk about this, like a realtor, which is free.

Speaker 1 You just making one phone call, them saying, hey, you know, your number is not going to be where it's supposed to be, and you go on to your next call and don't ever actually keep track of that agent.

Speaker 1 Again, this goes back to the theme of this episode. Like, it's about the relationship.
Yes. It's not about that listing.

Speaker 1 It's not about if you sent direct mail and the homeowner calls back, you call them, they're not that interested right now, and you just go move on.

Speaker 1 And you don't nurture the relationship and you don't have a constant communication. That's where just the professionals know this side of it.

Speaker 1 That's why they do deal flow because they know over time this level of communication is going to be the difference between actually getting a deal and not getting a deal, but coming at coming at it from a people perspective versus a deal perspective.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so when you are doing deals now and bringing in leads and this kind of stuff, and like we have this new joint venture strategy that you and I are going to be doing together, like what is going to be your sequence with these leads that come in?

Speaker 2 I try to hit them hard when I first get them in, probably the first week to two weeks, calls, texts, bumping them if I have emails. And then from there, I just kind of start dripping it.

Speaker 2 I reach out, you know, every two weeks.

Speaker 2 After about a month or two, I probably reach out every month. And then I just try to stay in front of them.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I feel

Speaker 1 like I'm going to leave them alone. Right.
And listen, guys, you guys all know this listening and watching, but we're in an event in timing business. That's what we're in.

Speaker 1 The time that you reach out to that home and homeowner, agent, whatever the case may be, needs to be at the same time an event is happening. And that's it.

Speaker 1 And if you drop the ball because you don't have automation reaching out or task yourself to reach out consistently, then you are going to lose that deal to someone else because the event that just happened to that homeowner happened right now.

Speaker 1 And if you don't have another follow-up for 30 days, because that's how you scheduled it,

Speaker 1 then someone else is going to call them today or tomorrow or Monday and you're going to miss the deal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's the important part is, again, back to this point. Don't be upset because they don't want your deal now.

Speaker 1 Just follow up with them because when the event happens, they want your deal.

Speaker 1 They'll take it because they're in that position. Yep.

Speaker 2 That's how it was with one of my better deals, that Fourplex. I think I was in contact with them for about three years before they finally sold it to me.

Speaker 1 Talk us through that. Three years.

Speaker 2 There's almost no one on this call listening or watching this that will stay in a deal for three years what talk to us about that deal i knew them personally and so about every three to four months i'd say hey are you getting tired of dealing with tenants and and messing around with stuff and it was always oh yeah and you know and not a big deal they were good they were cash flowing they they loved that uh every once in a while there'll be a little headache right they had a hoarder they had to clean out a bunch of trash they every time i'd say hey if you're ready, I'll take I'll clean out the trash.

Speaker 2 You just sell it to me, and I'll take care of it. You know, and I would, I would even help them.
There'd be times when they needed to move some stuff.

Speaker 2 I was like, Yeah, I'll help you move the furniture out. I know they left a bunch of stuff.
Is that gorilla? And then one day, uh, bottom unit flooded,

Speaker 1 and they just they're like, I'm done.

Speaker 2 It's yours. That was it.
Yep, they didn't even, we didn't even talk numbers. He told me a number that I was going to buy it for.
I knew the number was a deal, and I didn't even, I didn't even haggle.

Speaker 2 I said, All right, I'll buy it and that's how we did it

Speaker 2 and so

Speaker 1 the big takeaway for all of you out there again there's a couple here but like

Speaker 1 go rewind and watch this but one of these things is being con when you don't ask for what you want

Speaker 1 they don't tell you right so meaning you won't give the other person this goes for all conversations if i want joey to sell me his home and every time i call joey i say what's up, dude?

Speaker 1 How are the kids? How's the wife? What's going on? Great. All right.
Bye.

Speaker 1 And I never, hey, are you ready to sell yet? And I never say that to him. It doesn't give him any opportunity to tell me that he's interested in selling.
Yep.

Speaker 1 So the thing is, a lot of people will have a conversation, but not ask for the thing they want

Speaker 1 and or not let them know the thing they want. Right.
So like raising money is a great example of this. People are like, I have such a hard time raising money.
You know, my family's not rich.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, I don't know if I've ever borrowed any money from family, ever. Like, my family's not rich.
They don't sit around.

Speaker 1 Like, but when I make a post on social media or I let people know, like, I'm about to make a post real time today about a Raleigh apartment that is phenomenal and it's an opportunity for people to invest in.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to let them know there's an opportunity. They can take me up on the opportunity or not.
I don't, I'm not selling them, but if they don't know I have the opportunity, right?

Speaker 1 Because we're contracted on this apartment in Raleigh.

Speaker 1 How are they ever going to lend me money? How are they ever going to invest in that deal if they don't know? So, what you did brilliantly, dude, is you kept having come. Hey, you guys ready?

Speaker 1 You guys ready to get rid of that headache? You guys ready? Any joke,

Speaker 1 but that means you are going to be top of mind when their basement floods and you go, I'm in.

Speaker 1 And that's a big takeaway for all of you guys.

Speaker 1 If you just don't ask or even let people know you have interest in buying an apartment or raising capital or buy whatever the thing is, then the homeowner, the friend, the family member, the call, they don't have an opportunity to fulfill your ask.

Speaker 1 Yep. You're actually harming yourself.
And that is what you did so brilliantly there. It might have taken three years.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it got you across the finish line, right?

Speaker 2 And I know you're a guy of faith like I am. And it's biblical, right? If you don't ask, you won't receive.
There's just nothing there. You got to put it out there and be

Speaker 2 willing to get rejected. I think that's for me when I was first starting.
That was my hardest thing. And I think it is for a a lot of people.
Oh, am I going to look stupid?

Speaker 2 Am I going to give them the wrong number? Am I not going to be able to do a deal with make it happen? I know those thoughts ran through my head rampant when I first started.

Speaker 2 And eventually, you just got to go, I got to ask, right? And if it's wrong, then that's fine. I'll either make the correction or it's not a deal.
And we just move on past it.

Speaker 1 And if what, what got you over that? Right? And you don't have to say, oh, Justin, what you said, and maybe that's the answer, but like everyone comes across this wall, everybody.

Speaker 1 And it's this fear of like saying the wrong thing, getting hung up on, being judged, being laughed at, doing it wrong.

Speaker 1 But really internally, that's them, frankly, because I've done a lot of therapy personally. That's their own self basically saying, I'm judging myself.
I'm not good enough. Yep.
Right.

Speaker 1 Right. And so that's what they're scared of.
It's if I do this, then again, I'm going to show myself, I'm not good enough. Right.
I'm not worthy. Yep.
Which is all bullshit. Right.

Speaker 1 and that we all know because as a godly man yourself right like it's not even about us he made us in his image right so we are as perfect as it gets and he forgives us for everything so who cares move on yep but let's remove that right just but like what got joey over these these like ugh i don't know if i'm even going to do this right but i'm going to make the call what what was it i think there are two things so i i've done jiu-jitsu for a long time.

Speaker 2 I have a jiu-jitsu black belt. I'm sure you know that.

Speaker 2 And so there's just kind of a headstrong, you just got to keep showing up. And that's, it carries over into my real estate is whether I did something wrong or not, I just, I had to show up.

Speaker 2 It was, it was a requirement to at least just show up and make the task. And so that jiu-jitsu build definitely a mentality for me.
So that helped me over time.

Speaker 2 And then I think the other thing was, is, and I don't know who told it to me, but somebody once, somebody said, you know, we're both humans.

Speaker 2 You know, whether it's, whether it's Donald Trump, the president or billionaire or some other random person, we're still just a human, right? Yeah. We're just people.

Speaker 2 And so I think we get this conception in our head that these people are better than me.

Speaker 1 Or, you know,

Speaker 2 I can't do it because I'm not capable. I've never done it.
I've never done my first deal. Well, how are you ever going to do your first deal?

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 2 you don't just become a billionaire. You don't just become president.
You don't just any of that. You don't do your first deal until you've done a deal.

Speaker 2 Everybody has to have a first deal. So

Speaker 2 I just started saying, okay, well, I'll just make, I'll just have the conversation. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's, I mean, that's, so the human part, um,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 part is, you know, funny enough, I've always been asked from like a childhood, like even my friends, we'd be riding bikes and there'd be a group of girls at the park and I would go up and say, hi, you know, not old enough to like, I'm eight years old, nine years old.

Speaker 1 But at the age, you know, you get a little shy and whatever. My friends were like, how did you do that? And it was kind of what you said.
I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 What is the, what's the worst they're going to say? No? Like,

Speaker 1 like, I just didn't have that care, right? Because I'm only human. I'm saying, hi, girls.
What's your name? Right. That's the example I'm giving where that like freaks people out.
Right.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of guys today as adults. They, they don't know how to go say hello.
And it's as simple as that. Yeah.
But it's the mindset of like, you're just a human being.

Speaker 1 Like, go say hello and introduce yourself. Yep.
And if you don't, then you, again, don't have the opportunity to get the thing you want.

Speaker 1 So you got to pick and choose, right? It like this goes back to the it's all hard conversation, right? All of it is hard. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So are you going to show up every day, which is really hard? Yeah. Are you going to put in the work, which is really hard? Are you going to mess up and maybe look a little silly, which is really hard?

Speaker 1 Or are you going to not have what you want ever and be mediocre your entire life and not have anything that is worth anything and have no experiences and just kind of exist on this planet until you die.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Very hard.

Speaker 1 You just have to choose it. Right.
And if anyone here can lean into Joey and listen to what he's saying is like,

Speaker 1 he just was brought up with this mentality to show up every day, whether he does it great or not. That's everything.

Speaker 1 It literally will be everything for everyone listening to this is what Joey is talking about. Has it

Speaker 1 been for you?

Speaker 1 Say what?

Speaker 2 Has it changed for you? I mean, do you,

Speaker 2 is everything perfect? Do you always make make the right decision?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's still mistakes. You just got to show up and fix them and make them happen.

Speaker 1 Well, and then it goes into the argument of most of the people that might be listening to this at this point are newer, right? Like they're just breaking in.

Speaker 1 And that's where I'm hoping they can lean into Joey's story and his experience and lean into that, right? And if you are newer, go to reilive.co.

Speaker 1 It is $97 a month. $97 a month is the lowest plan.
So like you have nothing to lose to work with me. Joey's there every day.
I'm there every day. REI Live.co.

Speaker 1 We're doing deals every day, five days a week.

Speaker 2 Hair's on training where we you get to ask questions and do deals. If I would have had that in 17, I would have been launched even further already.

Speaker 2 And it's one thing to have a training video, but to have it's live time with you every week.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just like this. Yeah.
Just like this on Azure.

Speaker 2 It's how it gets you in the room. It's a big piece.
You got to get in the room.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. So, but this, you know, when you ask me, is it perfect with me? Like when you reach new levels, it's new again, right?

Speaker 1 Like when I'm going after what I was going after in 2024 and I put my head down in 2023 and said, I'm going to go do at least 100 million in assets in a three-year period. That's what I told myself.

Speaker 1 That's what I wrote down. I'm going to go do in 36 months.
I'm going to go acquire $100 million worth of assets.

Speaker 1 Every day of that moment was new for me.

Speaker 1 Because it required something new for me because I've never done that before. Yes.
Now, was it perfect? I think we all know if you've been watching me, absolutely not, right?

Speaker 1 There have been a lot of mistakes on that journey and some of them some pretty darn big mistakes.

Speaker 1 But if you guys are listening to this episode and watching me on social media, like own up to the mistakes. Again, we're just human.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I wasn't trying to do something bad. It just, the mistake happened, right? So

Speaker 1 I hope that encourages all of you guys to take a step back and say, okay, I can get going, right? I can be Joey part two. I can show up every day.

Speaker 1 And through that, Joey, wouldn't you say, like, by just showing up, you basically would just learn because you were doing it enough and you'd course correct every day.

Speaker 1 So you fill out the paperwork wrong. Okay, well, now I know how to fill it out because I just got it wrong.
So now I got to fill it out the right way. I won't forget that again.

Speaker 1 Wouldn't you say like just your learning curve by just doing it like drastically increased in speed? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Since we started working back with you again in that 21, 2, whenever that timeframe timeframe was for this most recent time, it started to go in exponential because before it was just kind of humming along.

Speaker 2 And then I'd just been consistent enough and I didn't give up to where now I'm starting to see the upward trend, right?

Speaker 2 And more and more stuff is changing and it's changing faster and more things are coming onto my plate, more opportunities. I mean, the getting in the room is how I got on this podcast.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 2 So.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's uh, so what do we, what do we have in store for Joey? What's the next, let's say, 12 months, months, right? Like, what do we see 2026 looking like for you? What's going to be your focus?

Speaker 1 Uh, and then how are you going to go achieve it?

Speaker 2 I would say the shift is to the business building side of things because now we're starting, we're at that point where we're making money and we're able to stand on our own two feet, you know.

Speaker 2 And now it's the putting systems in place, putting people in place to take over some of the roles that I'm doing and spreading my bandwidth too thin, and then adding in the direct marketing and the stuff we're doing with you where we're where we're adding more leads and

Speaker 2 hitting more sellers that are direct to seller.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think as you start to grow, the reminder for all of you out there, but even you, Joey, is just make sure you build down before you build up, right?

Speaker 1 Because if everything lands on Joey, there's just a tipping point where you can't carry all the weight. You can't carry all the water.

Speaker 1 And then you're not being efficient. And that's where mistakes happen, right? And you're not trying to make the mistake, but you didn't build down first.

Speaker 1 So make sure that those things are implementable or executable, right?

Speaker 1 Whether it's really build out, and I don't know what CRM you're using, and you know, make sure that there's some level of automation there that pings you every time.

Speaker 1 Make sure your phone gets the notification. It's not just in a CRM that waits for you to get home.
Like these type of things are important. Yes.

Speaker 1 Especially as we're going to start be doing, you know, 50 leads a month that I'm going to be bringing into the relationship that you're going to be banging the phones.

Speaker 1 And, you know, let's go get some deals. But

Speaker 1 I would encourage you going into this year really start thinking you know we have two months left we have november and december how are you going to finish and then how is it going to start and start start that process now writing it out like i have a whiteboard here writing it out like what does it look like who's it involved how does it go what's needed to hit these metrics um don't wait till next year right like don't be the gym owner uh or the guy that's gonna go i'm gonna lose weight january yeah we all know how that story goes uh and dude i i'm first of all all, I'm incredibly proud of you, right?

Speaker 1 Because it's not a straight line to success. You've stuck in it.
You kept showing up.

Speaker 1 And, you know, you've built some wealth in some assets. And we all know it's not

Speaker 1 passive. Yeah, it's not passive.
Now, now, with all that said, are you going to go continue to buy single-family assets? Are you going to change trajectory when it comes to stuff you own and acquire?

Speaker 2 We're starting to try to shift from just the single single family and more look at the multifamily.

Speaker 2 And I think with where interest rates and things are right now and what's kind of shifted within the market for probably where balloon payments are going to start coming in and how the market has softened for a lot of places, I think there's some serious opportunities that are coming for those that are just

Speaker 2 doing it every day. Yeah.
They're calling people, they're looking, they've got their eyes open and they're trying to find it. Yep.

Speaker 1 That's going to happen. This is going to be, listen, it's not going to happen next week or in January.
There's not going to be some catastrophic event.

Speaker 1 Like, by the way, I don't have a crystal ball, but, you know, there will be another seismic event at some point in the real estate space.

Speaker 1 And what I would encourage all of you to do, and Joey and I will be together rocking it,

Speaker 1 be ready to take action when those events happen.

Speaker 1 But if you're on the sidelines waiting for them, then you're not going to be ready, right?

Speaker 1 That's like, you know, that's why in football, as an example, or you could probably even say in jiu-jitsu, there's like, you warm up first, right?

Speaker 1 Like essentially, football teams have a practice before the game because they got to get their bodies right and stretch it out and start getting physical and hitting each other.

Speaker 1 And like, be ready to play. If you guys are sitting on the sidelines, you're not ready to play.
So, again, whether it's REILive.co or something, just get going

Speaker 1 because it's, it's. When that moment happens, Joey and I will be running head down, face forward, crushing it, and everyone else is going to be waiting.
So, I encourage you guys.

Speaker 1 And by the way, Joey, you're a great dude. Like, I'm sure if people want to reach out to you, they can reach out to you.

Speaker 1 Where would they go to reach out to you and find you?

Speaker 2 So if they just want to find me personally on Facebook, it's just Joey Mac, J-O-E-Y-M-A-C-K, or for my real estate, it's MacM-A-C-K buys real estate on Facebook.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, dude. Well, you should definitely be proud of yourself.
Your wife, I know, is proud of you, and your kids think you're a god. So, and that's all that really matters, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's it. So I do it.

Speaker 1 This is going to be a fun journey, dude. We are going to be together for a very, very, very long time.
So, this will be fun for us. All right, dude.

Speaker 1 Well, I appreciate coming on, offering some nuggets here.

Speaker 1 That is Joey Mac, everybody. I am Justin Colby.
This is the Science of Flipping podcast. And if this has helped, I would love for you to share this with at least two of your friends.

Speaker 1 We will see you on the next episode. Peace.