#145 Angela Ford - Meet the Army Psychic Who Tracked Spies, Hostages and Fugitives

Speaker 1 With the power and endurance of Toyota Trucks, you can go to the most incredible places like this valley where the echo does different voices.

Speaker 2 Hello!

Speaker 1 Hello! Hello! Hello!

Speaker 1 We know what we're made of, Toyota Trucks.

Speaker 2 This Marshawn Beast Mode Lynch. Prize Pick is making sports season even more fun.
On prize picks, whether you're a football fan, a basketball fan, it always feels good to be right.

Speaker 2 Right now, new users get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first five dollars the app is simple to use pick two or more players pick more or less on their stat projections anything from touchdown to threes and if you write you can win big mix and match players from any sport on prize picks america's number one daily fantasy sports app prize picks is available in 40 plus states including california texas florida and Georgia.

Speaker 2 Most importantly, all the transactions on the app are fast, safe, and secure.

Speaker 3 Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.

Speaker 3 PrizePicks is good to be right. Must be present in certain states.
Visit PrizePicks.com for restrictions and details.

Speaker 4 Angela Ford, welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 Thank you. I'm glad to be here and thank you for the opportunity.

Speaker 4 Well, thank you for being here and I am very humbled to be here with you right now. And

Speaker 4 so you first kind of popped up on my radar when I interviewed Joe McMonagall. He had brought you up in the interview.

Speaker 4 And I asked Joe to connect us, if he would connect us, and he said he'd be happy to. And then I interviewed another one of your former colleagues.

Speaker 4 Actually, it sounds like both of them are still colleagues to this day. But Edwin May,

Speaker 4 another fascinating guy. And

Speaker 4 man, everybody in this space has just been so nice to talk to. And

Speaker 4 I love the subject matter. So I'm very happy you're here.

Speaker 5 I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Thank you for coming. So

Speaker 4 everybody starts off with a introduction here. And so

Speaker 4 Angela Ford, you're a remote viewer. 079.
You have worked for 32 years in the intelligence community.

Speaker 4 You are a member of the u.s army's remote viewing at fort mead maryland from 1986 to 1985 1995 excuse me 1995 you are currently a teacher at the monroe institute and participant and participate in occasional projects with dr ed may at the Laboratories of Fundamental Research, LFR.

Speaker 4 You're one of the few female remote viewers in the Stargate program used

Speaker 4 to use automatic writing. Discovery Channel aired a reenactment of a case that you solved for the U.S.
Customs in 1989. You were given special

Speaker 4 acknowledgement in former Secretary of Defense William Cohen's book, Murder in the Senate. You have been written about in Annie Jacobson's book, Phenomena, The Secret History of the U.S.

Speaker 4 Government's Investigations into Extrasensory Perception and Psychokinesis.

Speaker 4 Do you know Annie? Yes. I just interviewed her too.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 4 another interview I loved and I just

Speaker 4 really happy I connected with her as well.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 so we got a couple things to knock out before we get in the weeds. I have a

Speaker 4 subscription a subscription network on Patreon and they are our top supporters. Many of them have been with me since the very beginning, and

Speaker 4 I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for them, and

Speaker 4 neither would we be having this conversation. So, one of the things that I

Speaker 4 offer them is the opportunity to ask each guest a question.

Speaker 4 And so, I thought this was a good question because a lot of people

Speaker 4 kind of categorize spirituality with remote viewing and

Speaker 4 ESP

Speaker 4 type stuff. So, this is from Paul.

Speaker 4 Have you known any remote viewers who have claimed negative spiritual experiences in the process of their remote viewing?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 Because

Speaker 5 people that I know were trained in remote viewing.

Speaker 5 Okay, remote viewing is nothing more than ESP.

Speaker 5 It's when somebody remote views to gather intelligence,

Speaker 5 it's nothing more than

Speaker 5 what a psychic does. The information is out there.
When somebody receives psychic information, it's mental.

Speaker 5 So the information goes to the brain and then it goes on to the paper, whether you're doing coordinate remote viewing, extended remote viewing, whether you're using tarot cards, whether you're using a crystal ball, that's the manifestation of the information.

Speaker 5 So remote viewing is nothing more than being than ESP. It's a nice term that the scientist

Speaker 5 used.

Speaker 5 It's a nice term to use if you're trying to get money from Congress instead of saying psychic.

Speaker 5 And remote, what makes remote viewing remote viewing is the methodology, meaning that the remote viewer, the psychic, and the people involved in the remote viewing process are blind to the target.

Speaker 5 That is

Speaker 5 what makes remote viewing is the methodology. But if you ask a psychic, we're going to do a remote viewing session, they're going to go into session and they're going to do

Speaker 5 whatever they need to do to gather the information.

Speaker 5 And you can't tell, you can't tell anyone. You can't tell a psychic, oh, well, you can't do that.
You have to do this.

Speaker 5 Although in the Stargate program, they did have the coordinate remote viewing methodology because

Speaker 5 it was a manual.

Speaker 5 It was written by

Speaker 5 Stanford Research Institute, made the manual. It was nice to have

Speaker 5 to kind of show Congress that it's more technical. It took away from the spirituality or the um

Speaker 5 but the army took it as military likes to train So when the Army people saw this manual of coordinate remote viewing, then they kind of made it their Bible and this is remote viewing.

Speaker 5 But actually, when somebody remote views,

Speaker 5 they're just being a psychic. I mean, you can see it, you could feel it, you can hear it.
Whatever happens in a session, you don't know.

Speaker 4 Okay, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 5 Now, as now,

Speaker 5 now I've had other people who claim that they're psychic that if they've had negative experiences.

Speaker 5 And I've had negative experiences. And I remembered whenever I had started training as a psychic, I was very young.

Speaker 5 A woman told me, she said, Angela,

Speaker 5 you're going to see positive, but you're going to see negative. You're going to feel negativity because this is what earth,

Speaker 5 Earth is made of positive. There's positive and there's negativity.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 I'm just not,

Speaker 5 it's sometimes it's just there, but it goes, it's energy. It just kind of goes away.

Speaker 5 I've been doing it for so long, and so much has happened to me, it just doesn't matter. But I do, you know, people call me up and they get a little nervous.

Speaker 5 They go, well, you know, I had this dream and what does this mean? Or they may feel like,

Speaker 5 I just had a guy email me the other day.

Speaker 5 I think he got, he started seeing, I think he was seeing warps in his third eye area. And I said,

Speaker 5 and I said, your third eyes, you know, it's a chakra center that's opening up. But

Speaker 5 I don't know,

Speaker 5 you know, I don't know. I just feel there is negative.
And I know a lot of psychics that don't want to read people if they're negative. Well, good luck to that.

Speaker 5 I mean, we're not always going to be 100% positive all the time.

Speaker 5 And then I know people, healers and psychics, they bring a client in and they'll go through a whole exercise of,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 talking, bringing the light, you know, blessing themselves. We only want good.

Speaker 5 It's just, I don't know, just, I don't do all of that, but I guess,

Speaker 5 I don't know. I guess there's just negative and positive.
Well.

Speaker 4 Changing the subject just a little bit, when I walked up here to start the interview, my editor was sitting here and you guys were having a conversation. And it sounds like you had

Speaker 4 somehow tapped into his health. Can you explain what was going on?

Speaker 5 Yeah, he asked, he said, can you, he asked me if I could give him a reading sometime.

Speaker 5 And I said, well, I said, I can do it now. So I just needed his, I needed to concentrate on something.
So I asked him for his birthday. And he gave me his birthday.

Speaker 5 And from his birthday i was able to tune in and um i felt like he actually i felt like he was going through a huge year of change which he

Speaker 5 whenever he told me what was going he is yeah huge change he just moved yeah yeah and i

Speaker 5 and i said and it's the kind of aspect where

Speaker 5 people want change but it could be more change than what you want. In other words, by the time this comes around in your life, you welcome change, but sometimes you get change that you don't want.

Speaker 5 And I said, you can even lose friends. Well,

Speaker 5 that made sense to him. And then I don't know why.
I just, I don't know why. I just, I said, just, I said,

Speaker 5 do you have a delicate? I said, I just told him he had a delicate system.

Speaker 5 And he did say, I said, you have to eat light foods.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 4 So does that just come to you?

Speaker 4 How does it come?

Speaker 5 In many ways, just many, many ways. Just focusing.

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 just I need a focus. I really do need a focus.
And I knew I didn't have

Speaker 5 the birthday, his birthday kind of helped. I did some basic numerology

Speaker 5 and just and and and then it's just that focus and then it just kind of opens up the door and then I can go from that interesting

Speaker 5 it just opens up the door could you

Speaker 4 Could you describe the chakras?

Speaker 5 Well, I guess

Speaker 5 there's these points on your body, like your hands. I think there's one in the stomach area.
It's called the solar plex. And then you have the kundalini, which is your spine.
It comes up like a snake.

Speaker 5 And then you have the third eye. and you have your feet and a lot of times when people become very sensitive or psychic these points, they kind of,

Speaker 5 they open up. It's sort of like we have an aura.

Speaker 5 And so it's sort of like as you become more aware or as you become more psychic, you're opening yourself up more to these energies. And so you become more sensitive.
And it's a process.

Speaker 5 It's a process.

Speaker 4 Interesting. So you become more in tune when you're in the middle of the day.

Speaker 5 Become more in tuned. Wow.
And it's a process. I think it took me about nine months to go through a process.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 I have one more question before we get into the life story. So,

Speaker 4 not long ago, me and my wife went out to dinner with

Speaker 4 a couple that's very good friends with us. And we talk about

Speaker 4 things like this and

Speaker 4 UFOs and

Speaker 4 stuff like that a lot. And

Speaker 4 my friend's wife

Speaker 4 was talking about,

Speaker 4 she was saying that she has dreams. I believe it was dreams.

Speaker 4 But she felt like somebody else was putting those visuals or messaging into her head. And so she would vocally say, hey, you're not welcome here.

Speaker 4 And I've seen some articles as of late that

Speaker 4 kind of talks a little bit about, I don't know if mind control is the right word, but kind of thought control.

Speaker 4 Is that a thing?

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 a lot of people get, it's sort of like whenever you go to a haunted house and you see a spirit. It's the same thing.

Speaker 5 It's not like she had, it's, it, I think what she needs to do is just recognize and just say, you know, I recognize what you're doing here. And, you know, and

Speaker 5 if you can recognize what's going on,

Speaker 5 she could say something like, look, I recognize what's going on here. And why do you want me to have this information, but I'd rather not have it.

Speaker 5 It's just

Speaker 5 wrecking. It's almost like if you see a ghost or it's like, hi, I know you're here.
It's rec recognize it. And once, once you wreck, it's like they want to be recognized and then it just goes away.

Speaker 4 i think what she was

Speaker 4 thinking was going on is that basically what i'm getting at is would it be possible for a remote viewer to inject a thought or a certain feeling or maybe information into another individual's

Speaker 5 mental

Speaker 4 status. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Have you heard of that before?

Speaker 5 Yeah, because that's what they, yeah, because if somebody, I think at one point they were,

Speaker 5 it was always thought that like if somebody was kidnapped, if they would, they were trying to tell people if they were kidnapped, start concentrating on

Speaker 5 if I think like if a remote viewer could find the person, if the person would start, suppose you were kidnapped and somebody wanted me to find you, you could, you could start

Speaker 5 you know, explaining where you are, what you're going through, and I could tap into that.

Speaker 4 No kidding.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
That's what they want. Yeah.
It's telepathy. That's called telepathy.

Speaker 4 Have you done that?

Speaker 5 Yeah, well, I have done that with, yeah. With my sister, I did it a couple of times.
Telepathy.

Speaker 4 Can you describe that experience?

Speaker 1 Sore arches, pinched toes, and aching knees. Does that sound familiar? Brunt's boots were designed to end all of that.
These aren't sneakers pretending to be work boots.

Speaker 1 They're built tough with real protection that stands up to the demands of the job. Brunt lets you try the boots on the job with free shipping on every product.
And it's not just boots.

Speaker 1 Brunt also makes high-performance workwear like durable pants and weather-resistant jackets that keep you protected and productive in any conditions.

Speaker 1 Join over 500,000 hardworking people who've already made the switch. With temps dropping and the holidays coming up, it's time to treat yourself or the hardworking man in your life to real comfort.

Speaker 1 Skip the throwaway gifts and get him something built to last. Brunt Workwear.
Our listeners get $10 off their entire order with code SRS at checkout. That's Bruntworkware.com and use code SRS.

Speaker 1 Order today and let them know you heard it here on the show. Buckle up because the biggest Black Ops ever is available now, Call of Duty Black Ops 7.

Speaker 1 With three epic game modes across co-op, campaign, multiplayer, and zombies, it's pushing the franchise into bold new territory.

Speaker 1 The all-new co-op campaign lets you play solo or with friends as you infiltrate Avalon, a high-tech stronghold on the brink.

Speaker 1 At launch, jump into 18 explosive multiplayer maps with exciting, fast-paced movement. If you're looking for some undead action, the round-based zombies mode is back again with a twist.

Speaker 1 You'll fight through hordes of zombies as you drive the new wonder vehicle named Old Tessie and wield a brand new wonder weapon. Black Ops 7 doesn't just evolve, it reinvents.

Speaker 1 If you thought you knew Call of Duty, get ready for something even bigger. Call of Duty Black Ops 7, available now.
Rated M for mature.

Speaker 5 Well, there's.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 There was one instance where, and I don't know if this is,

Speaker 5 I don't, okay. When I was working for the government, I was working for Army Intelligence, I had heard that there was one of my college professors that just started working at the Pentagon.

Speaker 5 And I guess I kept meaning to call him to get in touch with him.

Speaker 5 Well, one evening he was out and he saw my sister.

Speaker 5 And so they talked. And my sister came home and I was sleeping.
So I went to work the next day and I called the guy. And he said, Oh, he said, I bet your sister told me to call.

Speaker 5 I bet your sister told you to call me. And I said, No, I haven't talked to my sister.
And he said, He felt like, Oh, wow.

Speaker 5 He said, You must be psychic because I just saw your sister less than 24 hours ago, but somehow I must have known to call him, even though she didn't tell me that she saw him.

Speaker 5 But another instance I had with my sister was

Speaker 5 in the, we were living in an apartment and I had to, she had a,

Speaker 5 I don't know what she did. She would keep forgetting a certain house key or something.
So every time she would come in, I'd have to,

Speaker 5 and I can remember always just kind of sending her a message, don't forget the, don't forget the key, don't forget the key. And I almost,

Speaker 5 at one point, I could almost see her going back for the key and reaching for it. So

Speaker 5 later on that day, when I saw her, I said, did you almost forget the key? And I knew what time she had left.

Speaker 5 I knew what time she left. Well, I kept saying, don't forget the key.
Don't forget the key. Either she was going to lock herself out or I was going to get there and I would have to leave her in.

Speaker 5 And I can remember saying, don't. projecting don't forget the key and then i kind of saw this image and i could see her going back for the key and i and i recorded the time.

Speaker 5 So when I saw her later, I said, did you almost, what time did you leave the apartment? And she told me, and I said, did you almost forget the key? She said, yeah, I had to come back for it.

Speaker 4 Wow. Wow.

Speaker 4 That stuff is just fascinating to me.

Speaker 4 Absolutely fascinating.

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 4 before we get into your life story, everybody gets a gift.

Speaker 5 Oh, thank you. Thank you.
So this is nice. Oh, goodies, goodies.

Speaker 4 Those are

Speaker 4 vigilance elite gummy bears.

Speaker 5 Oh yeah, my husband, my husband, I'm going to keep these away from my husband. Lead them all.

Speaker 5 He has these all throughout the house, but no, thank you.

Speaker 4 You're welcome. You're welcome.
But all right, Angela, so we're going to start

Speaker 4 right at the very beginning. Where did you grow up?

Speaker 5 I grew up in a small coal mining town in western Pennsylvania.

Speaker 5 I'm from Indiana County, Pennsylvania. It was where Jimmy Stewart was born and raised.

Speaker 4 Oh, cool. Cool.

Speaker 5 I'm Italian. I came from a large Italian family.

Speaker 5 Both sides of my family are Italian.

Speaker 5 And when I was very young,

Speaker 5 when I was very young, I had a lot of out-of-body experiences.

Speaker 4 What age did that start?

Speaker 5 Oh, three, four, five, six. I can remember,

Speaker 5 I can remember when this, I guess they say at certain points of your life,

Speaker 5 I guess you get the spark of life or there's a spark. I can remember when I began to walk.
I can remember this spark going in me.

Speaker 5 And I knew it. I recognized I was a baby, but I knew a spark went in me.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 5 I was very aware of that.

Speaker 5 And I was, I had a lot of, and I had a twin sister who had out-of-body experiences. Now, I told my mother, I would get up and I would tell my mother what my, what my, um,

Speaker 5 oh, and then I started to have dreams. I started to have dreams.
And there were a lot of dreams. It was about a lot of things about world events when I was six years old.

Speaker 5 And I would tell my mother and my mother would listen to me.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 there are a lot of things about China, a lot of things about Russia.

Speaker 5 I was only six years old and I would get up and talk about these dreams, but my mother would listen to me and she never discouraged me.

Speaker 5 And as a child growing up, I could, now, once I got into school and when I became busy, it didn't happen all the time. Things sort of faded away.

Speaker 5 But I was always curious in the subject because I knew I was, I was, you know, I was flying out, you know, I was leaving my body. I could see my body.
I'm flying out the door.

Speaker 5 I'm walking through walls. I'm in the trees.
So I, so I was always interested in the subject, but I didn't.

Speaker 5 So, you know, I'd go to maybe psychic sometime. But my mother was very interested in the subject.
She had

Speaker 5 all kinds of paraphernalia laying around the house from Edgar Casey to she had a lot of Edgar Casey material. She bought a whole encyclopedia of

Speaker 5 the occult.

Speaker 5 We still have the encyclopedia.

Speaker 5 My mother was into it. She would listen to Jeannie Dixon and Watjori Galler on TV,

Speaker 5 and she liked country Western music, and she believed in reincarnation. So

Speaker 5 as a teenager growing up, you know she'd talk about reincarnation and turn up that country music

Speaker 5 and i thought she was weird And I just wanted

Speaker 5 I was so embarrassed when friends would come over. And one time the car radio broke and I was so happy because then we didn't have to listen to the

Speaker 5 country music. And I was walking down the road because it's a coal mining town, the road, not the street, then not on a sidewalk, but the road.

Speaker 5 And she had a transistor and I was walking with my friends and she held that transistor out the window as she was driving and she said, listen, Angela. and it was like a new country western song.

Speaker 5 The singer was singing a new song.

Speaker 5 You know, but that's the way she was. Now,

Speaker 5 so I went to college at Indiana University of Pennsylvania. And

Speaker 5 the year that I graduated, my sister,

Speaker 5 I had a political science degree and my sister had

Speaker 5 received a criminology degree. And my sister said, we should be state police.
She loved criminology in the investigative work.

Speaker 5 So we decided that we were going to be, we would, but we were going to be applied to the police, to the Pennsylvania Police Academy. Well,

Speaker 5 it wasn't accepting new applicants that year.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 we had graduated from college.

Speaker 5 The academy wasn't taking new applicants. I think I was just sort of,

Speaker 5 I was a waitress

Speaker 5 and I had nothing. So

Speaker 5 there was a man who taught a night class at the university that I attended. He was a chemistry teacher, but he was psychic and he would, and he taught an ESP class at night.
So I took his ESP class.

Speaker 5 And he was pretty, he was good. Like he'd put in, he'd make everybody write a number down and hide it from him.
And then he'd go around and tell you what the number was. And I liked him a lot.

Speaker 5 But what happened was

Speaker 5 I was coming down.

Speaker 5 The police academy wasn't going to open up. So my sister and I applied to the FBI and we were coming down to Washington, D.C.
to work for the FBI.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 I got a call one day where I had to go to a factory to work at night because I had to, and I had to quit the class because I had to make money to come down to D.C.

Speaker 5 But I always remembered him and I remembered the class. So I came down to DC and then I worked

Speaker 5 for the FBI.

Speaker 5 There's no way we could have become agents. Our eyesight

Speaker 5 couldn't have done it. And it was very, it was a very low-paying job.
But we did, I did meet, there was a woman I knew who was dating an Indian, an American Indian.

Speaker 5 And my sister and I were invited one night. I guess it was a powwow, they called it.

Speaker 5 And there was some tribal leader. He was,

Speaker 5 there was some tribal leader from the West.

Speaker 5 And he told my sister and I, he said,

Speaker 5 he said,

Speaker 5 did you have dreams when you were young?

Speaker 5 And I said, yes. And he said, when you're in your 80s, whatever you dreamt about, it will be true.

Speaker 4 Do you remember what you dreamt about?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 What did you dream about?

Speaker 5 That

Speaker 5 actually that

Speaker 5 we would not have the

Speaker 5 enemy would be China. I know what's going on with Russia in the Ukraine, but that will be resolved.

Speaker 5 That will be resolved, and we will be friends with Russia again. We will be.
We will be.

Speaker 5 That was, I remembered that. And it was China.
It was China was the enemy.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 That's what I believe.

Speaker 5 Yeah. And, you know, this was during the Cold War, whenever I had these dreams.
You know, remember Khrushchev? And

Speaker 5 it was unbelievable. You know, I would say, oh, no, you know, don't be friends with Russia.
We're going to fight against the Chinese.

Speaker 5 Well, at that time, in the early 1960s or 50s, late 1950s, who would have thought of that?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 Can we rewind

Speaker 4 to some of your, I mean, you had mentioned out-of-body experiences at age three, four years old.

Speaker 5 Well, actually, four, five, or maybe a little. It was before I went to school.
Okay. It was before I entered school at six.

Speaker 4 Can you describe,

Speaker 4 do you remember your first out-of-body experience?

Speaker 5 No, they all seem the same. You just go out of body.

Speaker 4 Was there

Speaker 4 what?

Speaker 4 What did the dream entail?

Speaker 5 Oh, it's not a dream. It's not a dream.
It's you physically, you physically leave, your body, you come out and you're here

Speaker 5 in like an aura or a spiritual form and your physical body's laying down.

Speaker 5 You can see your physical body laying down.

Speaker 4 So you're fully conscious.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, fully conscious.

Speaker 4 Are you able to make decisions?

Speaker 5 Oh, sure. Yeah.
It's like I want to go. Yeah.
I could direct myself where to go.

Speaker 4 Wow. So where would you?

Speaker 5 I would go outside on a tree. I can remember one time I really wanted to go.
I went to the sun, I think, one time, because I really wanted to get out of the earth. I wanted to go further.

Speaker 5 But I, now, when I went out of body, I had no control. And I still don't, I have no control when I go out of body, how I

Speaker 5 don't know how to go out of body. It just happens.

Speaker 4 but when I go out of body I can direct it a little bit I do I can direct it so you can't control when you you can't control when the out of body experience is going to happen but you can you are fully aware capable of making your own decisions where you want to go if you want to go right left up down

Speaker 4 you're you're capable are you are you

Speaker 4 Do you have the ability to come back in body? Oh, sure. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So, what did you think at age

Speaker 5 four or five or six?

Speaker 4 Oh, I loved it. Did you find it odd?

Speaker 5 I didn't find it odd, but I knew as I got older, it was, I knew I could not talk about it. Now, don't ask me how I knew that.

Speaker 5 I have no idea. I knew that I could not talk about it to people.

Speaker 4 Who's the first person you talked to?

Speaker 5 My mother, my mother.

Speaker 4 What did your mother say?

Speaker 5 Oh, that's good.

Speaker 4 Did she believe you?

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. Oh, my mother was.
Yeah. Oh, my mother was weird.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. No, she encouraged it.
She encouraged it.

Speaker 4 Does your mother have out-of-body experiences?

Speaker 5 Let me tell you, well, what happens later, what we find out about my mother is it's unreal.

Speaker 5 She had psychic. No, my mother was psychic, but we never knew it.

Speaker 5 And my mother would walk around the house and just make predictions.

Speaker 5 My mother would talk like, oh, you know, this pope's gonna die they're gonna get a new pope and the guy's name's gonna be john or and my mother would talk like this she remembered she talked about um my mother would make predictions and we didn't know what she was um

Speaker 5 we never knew she would we didn't call it psychic we just thought she was you know a little bit we called her um

Speaker 5 lofty. She was lofty.
She just didn't seem to be,

Speaker 5 she was lofty.

Speaker 5 And she would, a couple of times, you know, she'd be around the house making dinner or talking, and she'd say, Oh, you know, there's going to be a war over in Israel, it'll be short-lived, though.

Speaker 5 And there was, what was it, there, a 48-hour war or something?

Speaker 5 So, that's how she would talk all the time, but we never paid any attention to her. And then she'd talk about reincarnation, going to reincarnate.
So, we never really paid much attention to her.

Speaker 5 Now, what happened was

Speaker 5 I was down here working. I got a job over with once I left the FBI, I was able to get a job.
This would have been around 1980. I came down to D.C.
in probably 1978 or 79.

Speaker 5 I left the FBI

Speaker 5 because a woman I was working with left the FBI and she went to join her husband who was working with Army intelligence.

Speaker 5 And she called me up and she said, Army's having. Army intelligence is having internships.
They're looking for people with political science degrees. You should apply.

Speaker 5 You'll be making more money than what you're making now. Plus, it's, you know, you get more,

Speaker 5 as the years go by, you make more money. So I applied.
When I started to work for Army Intelligence, I was on.

Speaker 5 I was on a two or three year intern program, and I learned all about intelligence, how you collect it, how you disseminate it, how you produce it.

Speaker 5 I went to the different intelligence agencies to find out who's responsible for what. So I did this.

Speaker 5 And then at the end of the internship, they gave me a job. I was a Central American analyst.

Speaker 5 And at the time, it was around the 1982, 83 time period, whenever you had the Sandinistas in Nicaragua and you had Noriega in Panama and then insurgencies in El Salvador.

Speaker 5 in

Speaker 5 Honduras. And then late,

Speaker 5 so it was a hotbed. And I would do the current intelligence briefings every Friday for the command staff.
Okay. And that's what I was doing.

Speaker 5 Well, at the time, my mother called me up one day and she said, it was the fall and she said, I need to take, you know, I want to do something. My friends and I were bored.

Speaker 5 My mother always took classes like ceramic classes. And I told her, I said, why don't you take Dr.
Bordas's ESP class at the college?

Speaker 5 It was the class that I had to quit back when I graduated from college in 1976.

Speaker 5 So she said, I think I will. So her and her two friends started to take the class.
And here,

Speaker 5 what they found out was my mother was very psychic. And

Speaker 5 they could give my mother an object, like your ring or a bracelet or a watch, and she could hold the object and she could tell you about the person who owned the object.

Speaker 5 So So now my mother is,

Speaker 5 now my mother, we recognize that she has these abilities.

Speaker 5 So my father died during that time. It was must have been around 1983, 84.

Speaker 5 My father died and

Speaker 5 she mailed me a book and she said, Angela, read.

Speaker 5 And it was a sudden death. It was unexpected.
I was still young. I was 29 years old.

Speaker 5 I I was living with my sister. We were heartbroken.
So my mother emailed me a book and she said, read this book. It will help you understand your father's death.
And I did. And

Speaker 5 it was a book by Ruth Montgomery. She was a popular writer at the time.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 it was called A World Beyond. So

Speaker 5 that book helped me

Speaker 5 help me get over my grief. But after I read the book, I started, started, things started, I felt like I was getting very psychic.

Speaker 5 I started to do channeling or automatic writing. My sister was taking an astrology class at the time.

Speaker 5 And my sister, the astrologer, knew that my sister and I were doing the automatic writing. So she kind of recommended us to go study with a man by the name of Fred Mansbridge in Alexandria.

Speaker 5 He owned the Mansbridge Institute. So we started studying from him.

Speaker 5 And I was working

Speaker 5 as a Central American analyst. And at that time, somebody,

Speaker 5 the astrology's teacher, told my sister about this psychic program that the government had where I worked. I heard it from my sister's astrologers.
I didn't hear it from.

Speaker 5 So I started to make inquiries where I worked. And yeah, I had heard there was this psychic program

Speaker 5 that the Army had Army remote viewers. I didn't even know where it was located.
So, I did meet with the general, and I did want to go to the program.

Speaker 5 Well, he it was General Stubblebein, and he was retiring. This was 1984,

Speaker 5 and he was retiring. So, I thought, well,

Speaker 5 I guess I lost my chance to be brought into the psychic program.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 what had happened was

Speaker 5 he was getting ready to retire. So this Army psychic sitting up at Fort Need, they were sitting around ready to get

Speaker 5 orders to go someplace else and work. Even the civilians up there, you know how the government works.

Speaker 5 We're going to close this program, but you're going to go here and work and you're going to go there and work. So

Speaker 5 they assumed that the

Speaker 5 program would be shut down because General Stubblebein was retiring and he was the Army. The remote viewers were being paid by the Army.
They were under the Army. Okay.

Speaker 5 Well, in the meantime, in 1984, Dr.

Speaker 5 Jack Verona, who worked at Defense Intelligence Agency, who was funding research into parapsychology at Stanford Research Institute and other places like Princeton and

Speaker 5 Duke University, he went to Congress and said, don't shut down the program, just transfer transfer the program from Army to the Defense Intelligence Agency, which took about a year.

Speaker 5 And then in 1986, I was brought into the program after it was transferred.

Speaker 4 Okay, let's rewind just a little bit.

Speaker 4 What is automatic writing?

Speaker 5 It's just a way of receiving information. Like if you ask a question,

Speaker 5 it's just a matter of, it's just a way you can receive information.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 5 It's like like an automatic, it's like an autotomic, it's just, you just get the information

Speaker 5 through writing.

Speaker 4 So you think about

Speaker 5 something. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And you just start writing.

Speaker 5 No, somebody asks a question and then it kind of goes, and then I, and then I just sort of write out the answer.

Speaker 4 How does that come to you?

Speaker 5 Well, at first it came slow.

Speaker 5 It came very slow because

Speaker 5 it, you know, the process was very slow, but now it comes a little faster because I've been doing it for so long.

Speaker 4 I mean, I guess what I'm asking is, can you describe

Speaker 4 what you're experiencing when I,

Speaker 4 if we were going to do the exercise right now

Speaker 4 and I,

Speaker 4 and you had a pen and you were writing, and I just asked a,

Speaker 4 what's a question somebody would ask?

Speaker 4 Am I going to get my raise you know am i gonna make more money okay yeah how does that answer come to you can you please describe that experience

Speaker 5 it just comes it's like a door it's like just a door opens

Speaker 5 it's you know

Speaker 5 is it just a thought that is in it come fast it comes fast

Speaker 5 it can come very fast

Speaker 5 it just

Speaker 5 it comes fast.

Speaker 4 How do you clear your head so there's only that one thought or do you?

Speaker 5 I try to. I try to.

Speaker 5 I try to be disciplined, but sometimes you don't, but sometimes it just comes. I don't know if you've ever watched psychics on TV, like

Speaker 5 was there a man, John Edward

Speaker 5 or Terese, they had the Long Island psychic.

Speaker 5 If you ever watch them,

Speaker 5 they talk fast. The information comes fast.
That's how fast it comes. In fact, I went to see John Edward in Baltimore, and he came out and he said, he said, I'm going to start giving information.

Speaker 5 And if it pertains to you, raise your hand. And then he would walk over to the person and he would say,

Speaker 5 Do not ask me any questions until I am finished talking. And he said that it's like these,

Speaker 5 the information just comes so fast.

Speaker 4 Is it a thought in your head that you write down or is it your hand that just writes it?

Speaker 5 No, the hand is the manifestation. Again, the information is out in the ethers.
You're asking me a question. I have to go out there.

Speaker 5 My mind has to go out into the ethers or it has to go out into this energy field. So

Speaker 5 the information is here, so it manifests on the paper. That's why a lot of people can give a reading without anything.
Like I've known psychics, they'll just stand, they don't use anything.

Speaker 5 I think I'm a little, I guess that I like to rely on my paper and pen.

Speaker 4 When did you realize,

Speaker 4 when did you and your sister have a conversation about what was going on, if it was happening to both of you?

Speaker 5 Oh, and she came home one day and I was doing the automatic writing and I showed her what I was doing and she said, oh, I want to do that. So she did it too.

Speaker 4 Is that when she found out?

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Wow. And you guys are twins.

Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah. And

Speaker 4 Joe McMonagall has.

Speaker 5 Oh, sure. Oh, sure.
And it's genetic.

Speaker 5 My mother was psychic. I had heard years later that my father's father, before he came to the United States, he traveled all through Europe with

Speaker 5 a tray. And on the tray was a bird and tarot cards and he would make money by giving somebody a reading.
The bird would pick up the tarot card and my grandfather would give a psychic reading.

Speaker 5 So I have it from my father's side and my mother's side.

Speaker 5 So it has to be a gene.

Speaker 5 It has to be a gene.

Speaker 4 Do you think I talked with Joe about this? I've talked to, I think I talked to Ed about this, maybe John Alexander as well.

Speaker 4 Did all humans have this at one point in time?

Speaker 5 Do you, what is, I mean, oh, I think it's, I think it's always been there, but we just, it's always, I mean, why are we born? We know, intuitively, we know when to come out of the womb. It's like

Speaker 5 psychically, we know when to be born. I believe psychically we know when to leave, too.

Speaker 4 Really?

Speaker 5 I watched my mother-in-law and a a brother. I feel like,

Speaker 5 yeah, I feel like they knew when to go.

Speaker 5 They knew, it's like they took themselves out.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 5 I think we all have it.

Speaker 5 It's just not accepted in our culture.

Speaker 5 It's just not accepted in our culture.

Speaker 5 Other cultures have an easier time with it. And if this is against somebody's belief system, you're not going to do anything to change their mind.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 I've figured that out.

Speaker 4 I've heard a lot of people say

Speaker 4 it's demonic. I've heard all kinds of things.

Speaker 4 Why do you think we've lost it, though?

Speaker 4 If you believe everybody

Speaker 4 had this gift at one point in time.

Speaker 5 I think the church, I think,

Speaker 5 okay,

Speaker 5 you know, I watch a lot of the,

Speaker 5 I think a lot of it had to do with the church back a long, long time ago, whenever the Christianity came about in Constantinople.

Speaker 5 And he, you know, he wasn't only an emperor or a ruler, he was also wanted to be a religious leader. So I think he took a lot of things out of the a lot of these things out of the church.

Speaker 5 That's why you have groups like the Masons and you have these secret societies. I mean, I think these people have know this stuff,

Speaker 5 but it's just not talked about.

Speaker 1 My days don't slow down. Between work, the gym, and time with the kids, I need eyewear that can keep up with everything I've got going on.
And that's why I trust Roka.

Speaker 1 I've tried plenty of shades before, but these stand out. They're built for performance without sacrificing style.
I've put them through it all on the range, out on the water, and off-road.

Speaker 1 They don't quit. They're lightweight, stay locked in place, and are tough enough to handle whatever I throw at them.
And the best part, they don't just perform, they look incredible.

Speaker 1 Sleek, modern, and designed for people who expect more from their eyewear. No fluff, no gimmicks, just premium frames that deliver every single time.

Speaker 1 And that's why ROCA is what I grab when I'm heading out the door.

Speaker 1 Born in Austin, Texas, they're American designed with zero shortcuts, razor-sharp optics, no glare, and all-day comfort that doesn't quit.

Speaker 1 And if you need prescription lenses, they've got you covered with both sunglasses and eyeglasses. One brand, all your bases.
ROCA isn't just eyewear, it's confidence you can wear every day.

Speaker 1 They're the real deal. Ready to upgrade your eyewear? Check them out for yourself at ROCA.com and use code SRS for 20% off site-wide at checkout.
That's R-O-K-A.com.

Speaker 1 You maintain your gear so it lasts and your skin's no different. It's the first thing exposed to the elements every single day.

Speaker 1 Caldera Lab is built to help repair and protect your skin so you can look and feel your best every day.

Speaker 1 Caldera Lab creates high-performance skincare for men by combining cutting-edge science with powerful natural ingredients. It absorbs quickly quickly with no greasy mess.

Speaker 1 You guys know I'm a stickler for clean ingredients and Caldera Lab really delivers on that.

Speaker 1 Each product is backed by science, built for impact, and thoughtfully formulated with safety and sustainability at the forefront. I know, I know.

Speaker 1 Guys don't have time for a skincare routine, but Caldera Lab makes it easy with four simple steps that actually work.

Speaker 1 There's the clean slate balancing cleanser, the eye serum that helps reduce dark circles and fine lines, the base layer that's a deep hydrating moisturizer, and then there's the good,

Speaker 1 a powerhouse serum that has over 3.4 million antioxidant units per drop to help reduce signs of aging. Take care of your skin like you take care of your gear.

Speaker 1 Go to calderalab.com slash SRS and use code SRS for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab.com SRS.
These statements and products have not been evaluated by the FDA.

Speaker 1 These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition.

Speaker 4 I mean, what do they say? We only use 10% of our brain.

Speaker 4 I mean, do you think that through

Speaker 4 advancements in technology that we are losing brain brain sensory?

Speaker 5 I hope not, but you know, everybody's afraid of AI.

Speaker 5 I don't know. We're just going to have to think a new way.

Speaker 5 There's a book out called Human Design, and the guy that wrote it said that even

Speaker 5 children, the next generations, as they come after us, their brains will be different.

Speaker 5 They will be more, I guess our computer systems are changing or things are changing.

Speaker 5 changing so when these new people come somehow they're going to be geared up to understand maybe things that we couldn't so there's i guess there's an evolution

Speaker 4 and in that evolution we're losing

Speaker 4 we're losing psychic abilities

Speaker 5 yeah and we shouldn't we should be getting we should be gaining more psychic abilities how would we gain more i think just being aware of having more awareness being more in tune, and

Speaker 5 understanding that

Speaker 5 I don't understand people.

Speaker 5 I don't know. I just think

Speaker 5 being psychic really is just being aware.

Speaker 5 You don't even, if you could just go into a room and just be aware of who's, you know, what's in that room, who's in that room, how is that person feeling?

Speaker 5 What's you know, read the room, read the people. But people don't do that.
They just go in and talk.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 yeah.

Speaker 4 So it sounds like you're kind of saying just being in the moment,

Speaker 4 completely aware of your surroundings and paying attention, just paying attention to

Speaker 4 your thoughts, to what's happening, to

Speaker 4 maybe

Speaker 4 coincidences.

Speaker 5 Yeah, nothing is a coincidence. It does seem that way.
Nothing is a coincidence.

Speaker 4 When did you come to that conclusion?

Speaker 5 Just because everything, I mean, how I got to Army intelligence, I never thought I would work in D.C. I would have been happy in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 5 I had relatives that were involved in

Speaker 5 local politics. I was help, you know, working on political campaigns.
I was happy. When I came to D.C., it wasn't easy.

Speaker 5 Working for the FBI was difficult. It was the years after Hoover had died, and they were trying to make a transition into hiring minorities and working with minorities.

Speaker 5 So, and then I went to Army Intelligence, and they were,

Speaker 5 I think they had a problem because I was a female civilian.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 you need the civilian workforce in a military

Speaker 5 because they're what are they,

Speaker 5 they stay.

Speaker 5 So it wasn't easy. I mean, it really wasn't easy.
But I, you know, I had nothing else to go back to. Even when I would try to go back to Pennsylvania, I just couldn't find anything to do anything.

Speaker 4 How did you get selected for the remote viewing program?

Speaker 5 Well, what happened was, is I had found out through my sister's astrologer that they

Speaker 5 I had found out that Army intelligence, where I was working, had this had these psychics,

Speaker 5 remote viewers. I didn't know it.
So

Speaker 5 I asked to meet General Stubblebein to see if I really wanted to go to the job.

Speaker 5 But then I got in trouble with my command. I guess because I skipped my chain of command,

Speaker 5 my immediate chain of command got very upset with me.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 then General Stubblebein was retiring. So I thought that, well, I wouldn't be able to go.
But then he retired in 1984.

Speaker 5 And everybody thought that the program would, that the psychics, the remote viewing program would go away. But Dr.

Speaker 5 Verona picked it up in 1985 and transferred everything to Defense Intelligence Agency. In January 1986, I got approached by

Speaker 5 the people at Fort Mead to they sent someone down to interview me for the job. And it took six months to get from Army Intelligence to the Defense Intelligence Agency to work as a remote viewer.

Speaker 5 They interviewed me. I did personality tests and my clearances had to be sent from Army to DIA.

Speaker 4 What was the interview like?

Speaker 5 Just a personality test.

Speaker 5 Just general questions. But I think General Stubblebein told them to hire me.
So

Speaker 5 as far as the interview, I figured I was going because it was the type of program that you couldn't apply for. It was a special access program.
You couldn't apply for it. They took people.

Speaker 5 If you met somebody and you thought they were good fit in the unit, that's how they were brought in.

Speaker 5 So I'm sure if a general called some, you know, like the commander up at Fort Meade, who was the head of the remote viewers, and said to bring me on, I'm sure they would have listened to him because he was a general.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 At what point did they

Speaker 4 ask why you thought why they thought you would be

Speaker 4 excuse me did they ask why you thought you would be a good addition to the to the program?

Speaker 5 No, uh-uh. They just gave me this personality.
They kept giving me personality tests and they kept asking me all these questions. But the personality test,

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 5 You know, I don't know why they, I think they took me because the general said they take me because I ended up being on the test. I ended up being like a judging person.

Speaker 5 And they're saying that perceptive people make better remote viewers. So I think it was just an exercise to just,

Speaker 5 well, we interviewed her and she seems okay. And we'll bring her in.
But actually, when I got there, they really didn't want me there because of my automatic writing. They said it was a bad habit.

Speaker 4 Really?

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah. And I got in trouble with my bosses by going to the general.

Speaker 5 So they gave me a hard time and I was very uncomfortable for a long time

Speaker 5 and I was in trouble. So that, you know, that made me very uncomfortable.
So when I went,

Speaker 5 so from 1984

Speaker 5 to July of 1986, before I went to the program, I, you know, I was.

Speaker 5 I was still working as a Central American analyst. Now,

Speaker 5 when I went to Fort Need, my very first day of work,

Speaker 5 I was met by the operations officer.

Speaker 5 And I said, hi,

Speaker 5 I'm Angela Ford. It was the first time I met him.
And he said, I know who you are. And he said, and I've heard about you.
And he said, you have a bad habit.

Speaker 5 He said, what you're going to, he says, we're going to teach you the right way to be psychic.

Speaker 5 Well, at that point, I wasn't going to argue with him because I knew what it was like to be in trouble by going over the chain of command so whatever I didn't want to be in trouble again

Speaker 5 he said okay whatever okay it's a bad habit show you know

Speaker 5 okay it's a bad habit what do you want me to do you know so what happened was these military people they were all learning this coordinate remote viewing Now, they put me with a trainer.

Speaker 5 They put me with this man. His name was Gene.

Speaker 5 And i don't think and gene was a civilian and he worked in germany he used to be in the military and then he worked as a civilian and he worked in germany and you know if you're a civilian and you work overseas you're only allowed to work so many years five years

Speaker 5 so five years were up and gene needed a job so he called the command the the commander at the of the remote viewers and he said hey i need a job and the commander said well come on out come on down here i'll get you a job he made they made him a trainer so i don't think this guy he didn't have much experience with psychics or um

Speaker 5 you know he just needed a job because he needed a job so they put me with him because he needed somebody to train because all the military people were were doing training under another trainer so they put me with this train, this train, the trainer, Gene, because he needed somebody to train.

Speaker 5 well when gene found out i was doing automatic writing and the people didn't like it then he was giving me a hard time you know he goes you can't do what we're going to teach you the right way so i said okay so what are we going to do here now what they did was they called it extended remote viewing and it was nothing more than you sort of visualize you

Speaker 5 they put a picture in an envelope and you sort of go down into like a meditative state self-hypnotic state, and you get visuals and then you write down what you see. So

Speaker 5 that's what I did. That's what I did.
And they called it extended remote viewing.

Speaker 5 And while I was waiting for my clearances to be passed from Army Intelligence to DIA to go work as a psychic, I picked up this book. It was called The Silva Mind Control by Dr.
Silva.

Speaker 5 And in it, he taught, it was very close close to the extended remote viewing.

Speaker 5 He taught about how you can go down and visualize, like if I want to pick up information on you, I would go down and I would visualize,

Speaker 5 I would visualize you.

Speaker 5 No, what I would do is I would turn on the TV. Okay, okay, okay, now I'm going to watch Sean.
So in my mind, I turn on a TV and then I see you.

Speaker 5 And then I see, and then I pick up information about you.

Speaker 5 And then when i'm done i turn the tv off and then i come back and i say don't jump this is what i picked up on you that's what and or you can do it with pictures and so i read the silver mind control and then what

Speaker 5 um so when i went to work for the unit they were calling it extended remote viewing and it was the same thing that i read in the book So I would, in my mind, whenever I was working the training targets, I'd just turn on the TV and describe the picture and come out and do it.

Speaker 5 Wow. So that's how I was doing.
But no, I wasn't going to argue with them. They did not want me to do my automatic writing.
And I, and being in trouble before, and oh my goodness.

Speaker 5 So I did that. Now, about a year and a half after I was with the program, my trainer left, the commander left.
the one woman left, everybody left, and they brought new people in.

Speaker 5 And they brought in one training officer, officer, and he

Speaker 5 said he didn't care what people did because he wasn't wild about the coordinate remote viewing. And

Speaker 5 he used to be a remote viewer.

Speaker 5 He didn't care about methodology. The thing with the military was they were proud because of their methodology.
They had this coordinate remote viewing, they had extended remote viewing.

Speaker 5 And these, this, you know, this is the way it's properly done. This is how you, this is how to

Speaker 5 be a psychic, this is the way you do it. Well, you know, I come more from a spiritual, more from a

Speaker 5 spiritual, whatever background.

Speaker 5 And I would have thought that if you're going to go work as a psychic for the government, you would have thought at some point what some of them would have picked up a book or went to a metaphysical church or done something to look into the subject.

Speaker 5 But they took it as very

Speaker 5 matter of fact.

Speaker 5 So,

Speaker 5 what happened was

Speaker 5 about a year and a half, things started to change. Management started to change.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I told my boss, Fern, I said, I want to do automatic writing. He said, Well, you can do it.

Speaker 5 So, he would say, He would give, he said, You can go home and do it. He'd give me tasking, and then I'd go home and do it.
But one day, I walked in, and I,

Speaker 5 Fern and I, I walked,

Speaker 5 I don't know what happened.

Speaker 5 Um, I told Fern, he allowed people to do different methodologies. So I told him, I said, well, then come over and work with me, because I want to show you what I can do.
And he did.

Speaker 5 And he put a target in the envelope, and it happened to be Terry Anderson, who was a,

Speaker 5 he was a hostage held by the Hezbollah in Lebanon. And I described Terry and I described him.
I said that he's in a country that he's he's it he's located in a country that's not his homeland.

Speaker 5 You know, I felt that he probably was restricted and that I felt that eventually he would come out and he would be well.

Speaker 5 So that was that hit it pretty much. So Fern, like we started working,

Speaker 5 we started working

Speaker 5 hostages. They had

Speaker 5 They had other hostages there. They had, remember, and

Speaker 5 they had

Speaker 5 a lot of university professors at Beirut that they had kidnapped. They had a man named Pohill, and I kept saying his throat hurt.

Speaker 5 And he came out, when he caught out, he was diagnosed with throat cancer.

Speaker 5 Now, we were doing hostages, and we were running the information up to the defense. We were running the information from Fort Meade to Bowling Air Force Base, which is what, close to an hour.

Speaker 5 So whatever hostages I was working, they were running the information up and the people were taking the information and giving it to the Israeli embassy and the Israelis were acting on the information.

Speaker 5 Now, we got a call on Sunday, and they said that there was a Marine, Rich Higgins. He was a Marine colonel and he was kid,

Speaker 5 he went to Lebanon and he was kidnapped. And they asked if we could find him and they were very concerned because he was military and they were afraid he was going to be killed.

Speaker 5 So I worked the case and

Speaker 5 And I knew his movements.

Speaker 5 I was saying he's moving here.

Speaker 5 I was picking up things that they could come back and say that, okay,

Speaker 5 I was more or less matching

Speaker 5 what the intel messages were coming in, but they did not know where he was. So I looked at, they were giving me

Speaker 5 pieces of imagery. So I went to a piece of imagery and I said, he's right there.
And I pointed to where Higgins was.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 of course, the military people in the office said, well, there's nothing there.

Speaker 5 It's all woods. Why would he be there? But the analyst said it's old imagery.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 the hostages,

Speaker 5 the terrorist, about a month later, after I had put Higgins in this location, the hostages left, sometimes they let hostages go. So there was a hostage that was let go by Hezbollah, and

Speaker 5 it was a German guy, Cordez. So our analyst went over to Rheinmain in Germany to debrief him.
And our analyst asked, do you know where Higgins is? And the

Speaker 5 Cordez, the released hostage, said he's right there. It pointed to

Speaker 5 where I had pointed to. Wow.
And the analyst looked at him and said, but there's nothing there but woods. And the Cordez said, no, they built a structure there to put Higgins in.

Speaker 5 And that's where he was.

Speaker 4 Wow. Was that your first?

Speaker 5 Yeah, that was

Speaker 5 pretty good. That was.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I had, I think at one time I had Terry Anderson in the Baccaw Valley, and the analysts came back and said, oh, he would never be in the Bacwaw Valley. It's not the MO of

Speaker 5 the terrorist, but he was sighted in the Bacaw Valley at one time.

Speaker 4 I mean, what does that feel like to get a confirmation?

Speaker 5 It was overwhelming, but see, what happened was I felt good about everything, but the military,

Speaker 5 but they didn't really like me. It was just hard.

Speaker 4 Why didn't they like you? Joe had kind of mentioned that

Speaker 4 I don't remember his exact phrase, but it kind of sounded like

Speaker 4 he was saying you never got a fair shake.

Speaker 5 First of all, I think they resented the fact that how I got in by a general, which didn't bother me because I worked in the system long enough to know if somebody higher up wants you they pick you and you go and I've seen it and I've seen they do it with males males that and I think because I was female I think because I had the ability before I went in they could not control that

Speaker 4 interesting so

Speaker 4 most the majority of the

Speaker 5 remote viewers they don't have the ability before no they just they no they the army felt that you could bring people in and train them and you can train a person you can put you can put a picture in an envelope and you can train a person how to access and describe that picture but i could go i could find people i could find things

Speaker 5 that was just something i could do it was like instead of it was my mind that was the way my mind worked um i think they resented the fact of how I got in, the fact that,

Speaker 5 and they knew, they knew I had this ability. And I can remember when my information started to be, when they were using my information for operational purposes,

Speaker 5 they were fighting with my boss because they felt that

Speaker 5 I wasn't, it wasn't scientifically proven. How are you going to scientifically prove it? I don't know.

Speaker 5 And that they wanted to, they needed results i had to prove my results to them before it should be used in an operational mode why would i have to prove myself to them they're not scientists they were hired to remote view just like me

Speaker 5 but i did i think because i think because the information we were working in a fully operational mode

Speaker 5 They came down, they couldn't find Gaddafi's. Remember the Qaddafi was supposed to have had a chemical plant that nobody could find? Or

Speaker 5 they knew where it was, but they didn't know how the chemicals were getting there. Every time they would go, they could never find the chemicals.

Speaker 5 So they asked me, you know, they said, what's going on? So I said they were bringing it in.

Speaker 5 I named this vessel and I called it potato. And I spelled it like potato.
So we wrote a report up and we brought it to the, it was brought to the analyst. And Dr.

Speaker 5 Verona saw the report sitting on the analyst desks and he says does this mean anything to you and the analyst said well the vessel's not patado it's batado it's a b instead of a p but i spelt it with with a p

Speaker 5 so um

Speaker 5 and so dr verona said do you think this

Speaker 5 how we describe the report or the scenario, he said, do you think this is viable? And he said, yeah, the analyst said, yes. So they, Dr.
Verona went to the

Speaker 5 commander of DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, and they called, they called Turkey and they pulled up a submarine to watch that vessel.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 it came back as

Speaker 5 highly probable. So we really,

Speaker 5 they watched the vessel.

Speaker 5 The vessel

Speaker 5 sailed the route that I said it was going to sail. They said it probably

Speaker 5 did have the chemicals on board, or it was probably the way they were getting in and out. But

Speaker 5 it wasn't highly successful or successful. It was highly probable.
Okay. But that was good enough.
I mean,

Speaker 5 so I mean,

Speaker 5 that was nerve-wracking to think that they're going to pull up a submarine based on my information. Now that really made me nervous.

Speaker 5 It made my boss nervous because that was a sole, you know, in intelligence, you need several sources of information before you'll go out and look at something.

Speaker 5 It was sole source.

Speaker 4 So they had a lot of confidence in you.

Speaker 5 They did.

Speaker 4 Would they have other remote viewers on the same project to see if...

Speaker 5 Yeah, they would.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 the analyst

Speaker 5 that we were working with, they would ask the,

Speaker 5 they go, what do you, you're, why,

Speaker 5 the other remote viewers could not work as fast as I could. And they couldn't, I was good at finding things.

Speaker 5 I was good at describing people.

Speaker 5 See, I was good at personalities. I was good at finding things.

Speaker 5 The other remote viewers were just taught, put the picture in the envelope.

Speaker 5 It's a Soviet structure. They could be building.
It was just, it was a different type of,

Speaker 5 I was, I was performing it a different, different way.

Speaker 4 Were you the only one that had differences

Speaker 4 from your colleagues? Or were there other unique methods?

Speaker 5 No, there were two.

Speaker 5 There was coordinate remote viewing and extended remote viewing. And then I did my channeling and Dr.
Verona decided to call it WRV, written remote viewing. Interesting.
A girl came in after me.

Speaker 5 I taught her.

Speaker 5 She liked what I did. She was was pretty good.
And

Speaker 5 they gave her a hard time.

Speaker 4 Were you guys all centralized?

Speaker 5 In the same place? Yes.

Speaker 4 So can you describe

Speaker 4 what would a daily routine be like at Stargate?

Speaker 5 Well, we had two buildings. And one building is where we had our desks and where we would do our reports.
And then you had a second building where you would go remote view.

Speaker 5 So we would have schedules, you know, like on

Speaker 5 there were there were remote viewing times. I think one was like eight o'clock, maybe 11 o'clock, two o'clock.

Speaker 5 So we would have schedules on when to remote view.

Speaker 5 And then if we weren't remote viewing, we would come over and just do administrative type things

Speaker 5 and sit at our desks. We would type reports.

Speaker 5 You know,

Speaker 5 was hard to, it was hard to work. You can't, you can't work a psychic eight hours a day.

Speaker 4 When

Speaker 4 when

Speaker 4 in the other building, in the remote viewing building, what would the

Speaker 4 what would the setting be like?

Speaker 5 You would walk into a room and there would be a sofa, there would be a couch,

Speaker 5 and you could sit there if you wanted to and relax.

Speaker 5 And then there was a hallway, and then there were two rooms, and there was a restroom and the two rooms would have a chair and a desk and a bed and then then you would go in the back and it was a huge room with a big table and you could sit there and do uh you could remote view and that room had a lot of um if you needed maps if you need if you were remote viewing and you needed information that

Speaker 5 you you had maps you had books there

Speaker 4 Wow. I mean, this, I mean, I just,

Speaker 4 man, I want to understand the science behind this so bad. I love that.
So when you remote view and you say that it's an energy field that you're tapping into or the ether or, I mean,

Speaker 4 does that mean that

Speaker 4 everything

Speaker 4 has already happened?

Speaker 5 No, it doesn't.

Speaker 5 It's easy.

Speaker 5 It's easy to remote view the past and it's easy to remote view the present because the footprint is there. Okay.

Speaker 5 Now if you're asking me to remote view the future, I can remote view the future, but the future has a tendency to change. It's not, the footprint isn't there.

Speaker 5 So it's harder sometimes to read the future than the past and the present.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Is it

Speaker 4 is it a

Speaker 4 Is it mentally exhausting?

Speaker 5 Oh my goodness, yes. Yeah.

Speaker 4 What does it feel like?

Speaker 5 I just couldn't.

Speaker 5 There were times I just couldn't work. I had done the, I had found a fugitive, a customs agent that went bad,

Speaker 5 Charles Jordan. They brought me in on that case.

Speaker 5 We were having good luck with the hostages, and we were doing some other locational work that

Speaker 5 I was having

Speaker 5 success with.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 there was a TV program, the 10 Most Wanted.

Speaker 5 And there was a man named Charles Jordan. He was on the 10 Most Wanted list.
He was a customs agent that went rogue. He took

Speaker 5 the money from the drugs and he didn't want to be, he went dirty. He was dirty.
So customs called in Dr. Verona and said, we're looking for this guy.

Speaker 5 And you know, in police or military organizations, if you, somebody,

Speaker 5 if they're dirty, that, you know, that you really, they really want that guy bad to think that's the whole mentality is we got to have him because he, you know, he just, he's bad.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 I went into session with Fern and all he did is he asked me, where was Charles Jordan? And it came out, I said, Lovell, Wyoming. And it came out like that.
It just came out.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 he looked at me and he said, he was from Lovell, Massachusetts. No, I said, the guy was in Lowell, Wyoming.
And Fern said, well, I was born in Lowell, Massachusetts. Are you sure you mean Wyoming?

Speaker 5 And I said, yes, because I had the feeling of the West, you know, the wild west, that whole feeling came over me. And I said, no, it's Wyoming.

Speaker 5 So we had some maps there and we were looking through the United States maps and we looked at Wyoming. And he said, well, there's a Lovell, Wyoming, not Lowell.

Speaker 5 So I spelled it L-O-W-E-L-L, but it was really L-O-V-E-L-L.

Speaker 5 And I said, well, that's close enough. And then I wanted to leave.
And I think he wanted me to work more because you, you know, in the government, you just can't have a report saying

Speaker 5 Lovell, Wyoming.

Speaker 5 So I, but I couldn't. I figured that was it.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 5 And we didn't think we had credit for it, but we did. We found out years later that nobody believed me what I said.

Speaker 5 And then they found him. And when they did the reenactment in 1995, the custom, we said, oh, it's too bad we didn't get credit for the,

Speaker 5 you know, for finding the guy. They said, oh, no, it was because of my information.
They said the man, Charles Jordan, the one at the

Speaker 5 he sent his mother a picture of himself to show her that he was healthy and that he was okay. And when they saw the pictures, they saw the Wyoming license plate.
And so they knew I was right.

Speaker 5 And then they started looking up in Wyoming, and a security guard at Yellowstone saw him, but they said, no, it was because of me. It turned the whole search around.

Speaker 4 Wow. And they found him.
Wow.

Speaker 5 Okay, now you ask about automatic writing. It is spirit writing.
Have you ever heard of it? No.

Speaker 5 It's like you get,

Speaker 5 people say it's your higher self. I feel it's it's a guide.
You know, we all have guides or angels.

Speaker 5 Okay, so I was, so what happened was, is I was writing spirit writing and the spirit kind of identified himself as George.

Speaker 5 Okay, now you're talking, I want to tell you this story because you're talking about negative and positive.

Speaker 5 My sister came home one night from work and I said, hey, I said, I'm doing channeling here from a guy, little guy named George. So my sister said, oh, well, I want to do that.
So she started writing.

Speaker 5 And she said, well, I got a little guide here named Maury. She called him Maury.

Speaker 5 And at one point, Maury said, I am a negative spirit. So I said, Louise, I said, stop doing it.
I said, because I heard, you know, you can get these negative spirits and then they attach to you.

Speaker 5 And we don't, we know, we want everything to be good. So she said, okay.

Speaker 5 So then I think she started writing to another guide. And every once in a while this little Maury would pop up and he'd say, hey, I'm here and I am a negative spirit.

Speaker 5 So we were getting kind of nervous.

Speaker 4 You had interaction with him too as well?

Speaker 5 My sister did. Just your sister.
And every once in a while, he would pop up. So I didn't know what to do.
So

Speaker 5 I think.

Speaker 5 I don't know who I talked to. It could have been somebody at work because I was getting, and they said, oh, your sister needs psychiatric help.

Speaker 5 So I went back to my sister and I said Louise do you think you need psychological help she said probably

Speaker 5 so we kept writing she said probably who doesn't

Speaker 5 she said oh probably you know and i said i don't know about this i don't know about maury so um but we kind of liked him and he was sticking around and he was giving us pretty good information about um he was giving information about my mother's dead relatives who we didn't know so my you know he'd give us information information and my sister would call my mother and she'd say, oh yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 5 And he said that my one cousin was going to have a baby. They've been trying to adopt for years.
And, oh, yeah, they're going to get their girl on March 19th, which they did.

Speaker 5 So he was pretty accurate. But then he would say, oh, and by the way, I am a negative spirit.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 I went to see Fred Mansbridge because this astrology woman told my sister we should go see Fred Mansbridge.

Speaker 5 So the night before my sister went to see Mansbridge, she was going to have the first session with him. Maury said,

Speaker 5 tonight I am leaving you forever. And he, and we said, oh, by that time, you know, we had him around for about a month.
And we're like, you don't have to leave. You're okay.

Speaker 5 And I said, don't tell anybody he's negative because we really liked him. So he said, no, this is it.
I'm leaving you forever.

Speaker 5 So the next night, the next day when my sister went to see Fred Mansbridge, my sister said, I'm channeling through a guide named Maury. And Fred Mansbridge said, no, no, no, no.
You're got, you're,

Speaker 5 you're channeling through a guide named Maurice. Maurice is the positive, and Maury is the negative.
Address the guide as Maurice.

Speaker 5 So from that point on, she addressed him as Maurice, and Maury did leave her forever.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 5 Maury He did leave her forever. So he really wasn't bad.
He was good. I mean, we liked him.
He was, we liked him and we're like, oh, you know, you don't have to go.

Speaker 4 So what you're saying is for every positive, there's a negative.

Speaker 5 That's right.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 Fascinating stuff.

Speaker 5 That's why it does it. And I thought, well, there's your answer on your negativity.

Speaker 4 Man.

Speaker 5 There's your answer on your negativity.

Speaker 4 When they bring you in, is it a single remote viewer or

Speaker 4 do they bring in a team?

Speaker 5 No, it's a single remote viewer. Single remote viewer.
Yeah, you can't work with other remote viewers in the same room because you could be picking up what they're thinking.

Speaker 4 I was wondering about that.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you always, yeah, even whenever people work in groups, when you go to these metaphysical

Speaker 5 churches or

Speaker 5 they put psychics in a group and then every psychic will say, you could be picking up on

Speaker 5 what the other psychics said. So, no, you always go one at a time.

Speaker 4 Interesting. Interesting.

Speaker 4 Angela, let's take a, let's take a quick break. Okay.
And then when we come back, I want to talk about,

Speaker 4 I'd like to ask you about

Speaker 4 just some

Speaker 4 personal ventures maybe that you have never shared or that you've gone on. Okay.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider, and they stand by their values.

Speaker 1 Patriot Mobile has been a great supporter of this show, which is why I'm proud to partner with them.

Speaker 1 Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage, giving you the ability to access all three major networks, which means you get the same coverage you've been accustomed to without the compromise.

Speaker 1 When you switch to Patriot Mobile, you're choosing more than a wireless provider. You're supporting a company that stands for American values and that proudly honors our veterans and first responders.

Speaker 1 Their 100% U.S.-based customer service team makes switching easy. Keep your number, keep your phone, or upgrade.
Their team will help you find the best plan for your needs.

Speaker 1 Just go to patriotmobile.com slash SRS or call 972 PATRIOT. Get free activation when you use the offer code SRS.
Make the switch today. PatriotMobile.com slash SRS.

Speaker 1 That's patriotmobile.com slash SRS or call 972 PATRIOOT. I'd like to invite you to gain access to an exclusive experience on Vigilance Elite Patreon.

Speaker 1 Our patrons are the driving force behind the success of this show, and their support allows us to keep doing what we do.

Speaker 1 Depending on the tier you choose, you'll get access to benefits like behind-the-scenes footage before each interview, early access to episodes, end-of-the-month live Zoom calls with me, exclusive merch, and more.

Speaker 1 Join us and become a patron starting at just $5 a month by visiting patreon.com/slash vigilance elite. That's patreon.com/slash vigilance elite.

Speaker 4 Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes, and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review.

Speaker 4 We read every review that comes through, and we really appreciate the support. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Let's get back to the show.

Speaker 4 All right, Angela, we're back from the break, and I wanted to kind of pause on your career for a minute. And I wanted to ask you about,

Speaker 4 you know, maybe some personal ventures that you've used remote viewing for.

Speaker 4 And so, kind of what I'm,

Speaker 4 I mean, if I knew how to tap into this,

Speaker 4 I would, I would, I just have so many questions about the past about religion about

Speaker 4 UFOs about

Speaker 4 all kinds of stuff and so I'm I'm wondering

Speaker 4 if you use this

Speaker 4 to

Speaker 4 for your own curiosity

Speaker 5 oh yeah yeah of course I would oh of course I yeah I read it I would read anything I could on it well I mean so

Speaker 4 here's an example.

Speaker 4 I would love to know

Speaker 4 maybe what

Speaker 4 some of the things that were happening in World War II or

Speaker 4 the Bible or just big questions.

Speaker 5 Oh, you mean use your psychic abilities to kind of figure it out.

Speaker 4 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 sometimes.

Speaker 5 Sometimes you don't know if you're right, though,

Speaker 5 but you don't have the feedback, and so you don't know know if you're right or whatever. So sometimes you have to do,

Speaker 5 you may be curious about something or think of something and maybe try to figure it out. And then maybe it'll just do some research.

Speaker 5 Maybe your thinking was right or maybe you have to look for your feedback to see if what you were feeling was right.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 4 What are some of the big questions that you've

Speaker 5 I guess what goes on after we leave,

Speaker 5 after we leave this, I guess after our body our physical body

Speaker 5 i you know i don't think i i sort of think that we sort of go on in some way um and i do believe that there

Speaker 5 i was born and raised catholic um but i had to let go a lot of that i just had to let a lot of that thinking go

Speaker 5 I mean, I like to think that we go on in some way. I do believe that there was a man named Jesus that walked the earth.

Speaker 5 And, but, you know, there were other people too that were here to teach lessons.

Speaker 5 And we,

Speaker 5 my biggest thing was what, you know, what happens after we go on. I'm interested to know, do we come in reincarnation? I've asked,

Speaker 5 do we come back?

Speaker 4 What do you believe happens when we die?

Speaker 5 I just think you're kind of met, I think you're sort of, you go over with,

Speaker 5 I believe that you go on and that you're reunited with your, with your soul family or with

Speaker 5 your karma group. The way I understand it is that we come in, we come into,

Speaker 5 we come into this life with our karma group. Now, karma, we have karma, good karma and bad karma.
So the same people that I was with,

Speaker 5 I just think that we somehow we come back and we come back with the same people.

Speaker 5 Really? I believe in real, yeah, I do.

Speaker 4 What is a karma group?

Speaker 5 Well, it's the same, like in other words, the people you know now, you knew before in a past life. Did you ever go somewhere and just felt like

Speaker 5 you knew somebody or that you've been there before? Yes. Yeah, that's,

Speaker 5 I've known you. Yeah, that's, yeah.

Speaker 4 What do you,

Speaker 4 what do you think deja vu is?

Speaker 5 The remembering of a past life.

Speaker 4 Do you think it's the remembering of a past life?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it happened before. Either you were at that place.
I felt like I had that with a couple of my animals.

Speaker 4 Why do you think that?

Speaker 5 Why do I think what?

Speaker 4 Why do you think that

Speaker 5 we

Speaker 5 travel

Speaker 4 with a karma group

Speaker 5 um because it just makes um because we have things to work out with them i guess

Speaker 4 who would they who would be in that karma group friends

Speaker 5 relatives friends people that you meet all through your life um

Speaker 5 you know i just

Speaker 4 everybody that you know everybody that so everybody in your sphere of

Speaker 5 you would know

Speaker 5 i think it was explained to me, like, you know, you've got one million people will leave this earth and then one million people come down to replace the one million people that left.

Speaker 4 Do we immediately come back?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 5 I don't think so. I think you kind of have to wait for your karma group to figure out, you know, you know, if you come back this time, are you going to be my mother or my sister or my father?

Speaker 4 Why do you think that we come back?

Speaker 4 What have you

Speaker 5 experienced that makes you believe that? Probably to

Speaker 5 get better into

Speaker 5 whatever errors we have, try to replace them.

Speaker 5 There's a reason why we come back. Do we need to learn more love? Do we need to learn more patience?

Speaker 4 Have you had any

Speaker 4 experiences that solidify your beliefs?

Speaker 5 Not really. I mean,

Speaker 5 I can't,

Speaker 5 I don't have any scientific evidence. I did have a, I did have one woman put me through a past life.

Speaker 5 And I don't know if it's true.

Speaker 5 It was sort of like a hypnotic state where you kind of go and visualize a past life. And I think I was in Nova Scotia growing wheat.
I remember that. I remember that.
But I remember also

Speaker 5 there was a religion there that was very strict.

Speaker 5 I can remember in whatever under that session, I remembered belonging to an organized religion that was very strict.

Speaker 5 And so when I came out of that,

Speaker 5 I probably figured, well, the Catholic religion that I grew up with probably

Speaker 5 represents, you know, that energy was probably

Speaker 5 coming from that energy from that past life. And so somehow I just maybe I cleared myself of it in this life.

Speaker 4 Have you

Speaker 4 have you looked into

Speaker 4 have you tried to look into

Speaker 4 religion at all,

Speaker 4 such as the crucifixion?

Speaker 4 You have

Speaker 4 do you not want to talk about that?

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Do you want to talk about,

Speaker 4 you had mentioned you had had a UFO experience.

Speaker 5 Yeah, when I was 13 years old,

Speaker 5 this was another thing, too, that had happened to me.

Speaker 5 We were playing, a bunch of us kids, we were playing baseball. It was a spring day, and it was right at that time

Speaker 5 that

Speaker 5 it you know the day goes into it was dusk where the day goes into the darkness so we had to quit playing baseball so we were walking across the baseball field and we heard this

Speaker 5 and we saw an unidentified object it was green light with the ring around it and it just went over us so we screamed and we yelled and people came out and they pointed to the um

Speaker 5 object so yeah i did have a ufo experience And so that

Speaker 5 all kind of leads you into thinking about stuff too.

Speaker 4 It does. It does.

Speaker 4 Have you looked into any more UFO type stuff or extraterrestrial?

Speaker 4 I spoke with Joe about this and he had,

Speaker 4 I don't remember the date, but it was

Speaker 4 I don't remember the date. It was BC

Speaker 4 and they wanted him to remote view Mars.

Speaker 4 And he had remote-viewed some type of a pyramid that...

Speaker 4 Are you familiar with this?

Speaker 4 Well, he had remote viewed Mars. I'm just going to throw an arbitrary number out.
Let's say 10,000 BC. It's probably not 10,000 BC, but I'm just throwing a number out.
And he'd remote viewed Mars and

Speaker 4 his experience basically, if I remember correctly, there was pyramids and it looked like people were evading something and they were using that as

Speaker 4 some type of a protective shelter.

Speaker 4 Have you remote viewed anything in space?

Speaker 5 Yes, but that, yes, but

Speaker 5 I didn't trust the, no,

Speaker 5 but I don't trust the information because I was remote viewing Mars, but

Speaker 5 I didn't trust the information or the feedback because I don't think it was known at the time.

Speaker 4 What did you,

Speaker 5 what was the feedback?

Speaker 5 I can't even remember, but it didn't make sense.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 5 It was at Fortene.

Speaker 5 There was one guy there. He wanted everybody to remote view Mars, but the protocol,

Speaker 5 it wasn't good. It just was, it was a, it wasn't a clean protocol.
And I just didn't trust the, and I don't even remember because I don't trust the session and I don't trust the information.

Speaker 4 So you don't trust anything unless you get, unless you get the feedback.

Speaker 5 Well, in remote viewing, yeah. Or the

Speaker 5 in remote viewing.

Speaker 5 But see, a lot of this stuff, like a lot of times I read or I have my own personal feelings on stuff, but I don't know, but I kind of have my own feeling on things, how things go or whatever.

Speaker 5 But, you know, in the psychic world, if I'm performing, I would need the feedback, even if I give psychic readings.

Speaker 5 You just, it's sort of, I kind of have to take what my thoughts are, or what my beliefs are, I just take it out of the equation.

Speaker 4 Is that hard for you to do?

Speaker 5 No, because I just know what I believe, and I just know what you can, what I can't.

Speaker 4 Why do you believe what you believe?

Speaker 5 Uh, Because with reincarnation.

Speaker 5 To me, it makes sense.

Speaker 5 To me, it makes sense.

Speaker 5 I had a lot of questions about

Speaker 5 why I felt certain things or why I thought a certain way. And when I started to study about reincarnation or what I,

Speaker 5 it closed up a lot of answers for me.

Speaker 5 It

Speaker 5 It just made,

Speaker 5 I didn't believe in reincarnation at first because I was born Catholic. But once I overcame that hurdle and believe and started saying this could be possible,

Speaker 5 I even

Speaker 5 opened up more psychically. It was like I had to get that belief system.

Speaker 5 It just it just was another, it was just made somehow on some level, it made sense that it just opened me up more.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 5 Interesting. It didn't scare me.
It was like, you know, that makes sense.

Speaker 5 I guess energy doesn't die. You know, we can come back.

Speaker 4 Have you had any visions of past lives?

Speaker 5 Well, I had the one woman, like I said, with the Nova Scotia, but that was like a hypnotherapist. She kind of put me under.

Speaker 5 But yeah, I feel like I may have been in England at some point. But I do, I do,

Speaker 5 I have, I had a dog. I knew, I, God, that dog, just, I felt a pat,

Speaker 5 I just knew I went through something with that dog. And I have a cat now that I just feel like I, I just feel it.
It's just something you feel. I guess you can't, you just can't.

Speaker 4 It's an intuition. Yeah.

Speaker 5 But there are certain things I like to watch on certain things that I watch or I'm attracted to or you know and I often wonder well if I have a strong attraction to something

Speaker 5 or if I'm obsessed with something

Speaker 5 maybe I'll do some research or whatever and I'll think well maybe maybe there's a connection there but I don't know what it is for sure

Speaker 4 you had mentioned

Speaker 4 When you had mentioned, I can't remember if it was on a break or if it was earlier in today's interview, but you had mentioned that you believe we all have angels

Speaker 4 or guides or guides where do those come from

Speaker 5 i guess from the heavenly realms from the invisible realms you know

Speaker 5 they call it be beyond the veil or the veil i guess there's just a veil that kind of separates the see

Speaker 5 we see things here but it's just a thin veil to see into the other realms and i think that's where they come from

Speaker 4 Do you believe in a higher power like

Speaker 4 God?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think that there is. Yeah, and I think that God gives us a lot of free will.

Speaker 5 And I think that man makes, you know, I think God gives us a lot of free will.

Speaker 5 And that

Speaker 5 mankind maybe,

Speaker 5 like,

Speaker 5 just keeps doing what we're doing.

Speaker 4 What about extraterrestrials?

Speaker 5 Yeah, like I said, I had the

Speaker 5 I had the

Speaker 5 experience.

Speaker 5 I had the UFO experience. And

Speaker 5 whenever I moved into Washington, D.C., I lived in an apartment in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 5 And I was living, and I had a woman friend who was, she must have been about 20, 30 years older than me. And I needed to move into Washington, D.C.

Speaker 5 And so she brought me to this apartment complex where she used to live. And

Speaker 5 so my sister and I lived in this apartment and it was small. So one day the landlord said that our neighbors were moving out.
We could have the larger apartment, which we took.

Speaker 5 Well, my girlfriend called me up, my woman friend, and she said, I used to live in that apartment. That's where I used to live.
So one time,

Speaker 5 one night I got a little ring outside and she said, my friends are here. We want to come up and see the apartment.
So she came up and

Speaker 5 she said, oh, I used to live here. And this, you know, your bedroom was where my, the baby's room was.
So she was with a woman named Madeline. And Madeline said,

Speaker 5 Ruth, do you remember what happened in this apartment? And Ruth said, no. And she said, this was where the first film of UFOs were shown.

Speaker 5 And this Madeline worked for an Egyptian researcher named Adamski. And Adamski was, he researched UFOs and artifacts.
And they showed the first film of UFOs was shown in the apartment that I lived in.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 5 I mean, that's not an accident. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Do you believe UFOs are

Speaker 4 I mean, some people believe it's some type of a spiritual entity, and some people believe it's actually nuts and bolts

Speaker 4 flying objects with extraterrestrials. And

Speaker 4 what do you think?

Speaker 5 I think that the... Now, if you read the books about civilization, weren't they supposed to be here at one time and helped build our and helped.

Speaker 5 I think they're here to help us. Are they supposed to help us?

Speaker 4 How so?

Speaker 5 I don't know. Didn't they come here and kind of at the beginning of Earth, they said when Earth wasn't so,

Speaker 5 I guess they were trying to help,

Speaker 5 they had visited Earth before and they were to help, they help mankind is from what I understand.

Speaker 4 I mean, there's all kinds of theories out there.

Speaker 4 I am a Christian, so you know, I believe what I believe, but there's, there's definitely lots of

Speaker 4 theories out there about

Speaker 4 the pyramids, Stonehenge,

Speaker 4 Easter Island, all of these things. And

Speaker 4 it sounds like, you know, I've interviewed a lot of other people. Like, are you familiar with Randall Carlson by chance?

Speaker 5 No,

Speaker 5 what does he say?

Speaker 4 Randall basically

Speaker 4 in a very dubbed-down version, he thinks that the

Speaker 4 basically that the earth resets

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 that there were older civilizations that went extinct that were possibly way more advanced than anything that we have now and it's like a it's just a big it's almost like sounds like kind of like reincarnation yeah i could agree with that a reset i like that a reset i like that that makes sense have you ever remote viewed anything such as that

Speaker 4 The lost city of Atlantis.

Speaker 5 I think I did one time, but I thought I was underwater a lot. Did it go underwater? The Atlantis? Yeah, well, nobody's found it.
Okay, because I thought I was underwater.

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 Wait, I have not

Speaker 5 Atlantis, but

Speaker 5 oh, the

Speaker 5 Stonehenge, remote view Stonehenge. I felt like that was the, and the pyramids, I felt like there was some type of supernatural help or energy there on both of those.

Speaker 5 Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramid.

Speaker 4 Is that something that you remote viewed?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I remote viewed and I felt like

Speaker 5 there was supernatural energy or help that put these things in place can you describe that experience

Speaker 5 um it was

Speaker 5 very expanding i felt like the energy was very expanding and i felt there was a lot of knowledge and i fought felt there was a lot of light and goodness

Speaker 5 um it was a time of learning.

Speaker 5 Especially with the Egyptian, I felt like there was,

Speaker 5 you know, it was very monumental. It was a time of learning.

Speaker 5 I felt it was good energy. It was all good energy.
It was exciting.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 5 Interesting.

Speaker 4 What are some

Speaker 4 personal ventures that really stick out in your mind?

Speaker 5 You mean in remote viewing? Yes.

Speaker 5 You mean in remote viewing, helping other people, or remote viewing?

Speaker 4 Something that's not on the job

Speaker 4 oh how i help somebody your extracurricular whether it's whether it's it's you're trying to answer your own curiosities or could be helping somebody

Speaker 5 oh yeah i did help somebody once

Speaker 5 i did help somebody once

Speaker 5 and it's it's a funny story and i lost his number but I got a guy, I got a call. I got a call one night from a guy from New York.

Speaker 5 And I don't know how he got my number but he was an older gentleman and um and this is a fun i mean this this is just he called me up and he said i've never been married he said i want to be married he says i want to have children and i and i guess i'm going to have to marry somebody younger because he really wanted children so he said do you think I'm going to be married?

Speaker 5 I said, I think you're going to get married. He goes, well, where am I going to meet my wife? Oh, and

Speaker 5 he said, how am i going to meet my wife and and i just said she's your neighbor

Speaker 5 and he you could hear me go here we go and he could hear me go what what are you talking about what do you mean she's i'm thinking of my neighbor i don't have a neighbor i can meet what do you mean so you know by that time i'm just getting um he says i'm gonna go online and i'm gonna find a girl i said okay go online i didn't even you know and it was like a 10-minute conversation that i you know i didn't even charge him money So, about three months later, he calls me up and he goes, Hey,

Speaker 5 I'm, I go online, nothing's working out. You think I'm going to get married? I go, You're going to get married.

Speaker 5 And he goes, Who am I going to marry? I go, You're going to marry your neighbor. And he goes,

Speaker 5 What are you talking about? You're crazy. So, we argue and we argue.
And he's did this a couple of times. So, one time he called,

Speaker 5 this is Abe. And he heard me take a breath, like, oh, no, here we go again.
And he goes, please, please don't hang up. He goes, please don't hang up.
He said, he goes, guess what? I go, what?

Speaker 5 I go, he goes, I'm getting married. I said, who are you marrying? He said, my neighbor.
So I said,

Speaker 5 so I said, so, so tell, he said, there was a school that he had one of, he lived next to a school or a college or something.

Speaker 5 And apparently the girl was going to school there or something so it was his neighbor who and then she happened to be his sister's neighbor so you know but anyway but i could tell he could tell by that time i was ready to hang up the phone with him and he goes please don't hang up don't hang up listen to me listen to me he goes

Speaker 4 wow

Speaker 5 So I go, okay, now are you happy? He goes, yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy.
But I I wanted to stay in contact with him, but to find out if he ever had children, but I'm sure he did.

Speaker 4 Wow, that's fascinating.

Speaker 4 Before we move on with your career, also,

Speaker 4 we had a

Speaker 4 I wanted to save,

Speaker 4 I kind of cut it on the break, but we were talking about other dimensions. How would you describe other dimensions?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I mean, I guess they're just other.

Speaker 5 I don't know. I guess,

Speaker 5 I don't know. I mean, how can

Speaker 5 sometimes if you look up at the stars at night, I mean, that's kind of different.

Speaker 5 I would feel like that would be a different dimension.

Speaker 4 Well, what you were describing was

Speaker 4 it sounded like your mother.

Speaker 5 Yeah, my mother would,

Speaker 5 I have no idea how to even explain this, but she would,

Speaker 5 as she got older in life, my mother was very, she was very psychic. And as she got older in life, she would call me up and she would say

Speaker 5 she was, you know, she was coming home from shopping or from grocery shopping and that she would make a right, you know, she would turn on the road to come home.

Speaker 5 And she would, so she would turn on the road and then she would be somewhere. And she said that she would, she would

Speaker 5 be there

Speaker 5 and she would,

Speaker 5 you know, she would see beautiful stars or she'd see beautiful scenery. And then she would sit there for a while and then she would drive home.
And then it would hit her later that

Speaker 5 wherever she turned, there was no road.

Speaker 5 So what was she doing? Well, she was going some, she had to be going into another dimension or something.

Speaker 4 So she's saying she was physically in another dimension.

Speaker 5 She had to have been because there was, and when I would go home to visit her, she would say, this is where I turn. And

Speaker 5 there would be no road. It would be cornfields.

Speaker 4 What would she experience there?

Speaker 5 Oh, wonderful. She said, oh, it was beautiful.
She said that she felt a lot of peace, a lot of love. She felt energized.

Speaker 5 And And she would have to remind herself that she would have to, oh, she would kind of get shocked. Oh, yeah, I better get home.

Speaker 5 And that happened to her a couple of times.

Speaker 4 Wow. Have you experienced other dimensions?

Speaker 5 Not like that.

Speaker 4 But in a different way?

Speaker 5 Sometimes, head-wise, I feel them someplace else.

Speaker 5 I don't,

Speaker 5 not like she did, but sometimes I feel,

Speaker 5 I don't know, sometimes I feel I feel like the planets moving sometimes. What do you mean by that? You can feel the planets move.

Speaker 4 How so?

Speaker 5 I don't know, they just move sometimes.

Speaker 5 I don't know. Sometimes I feel like my head's just, I don't know.

Speaker 5 Is

Speaker 4 I'm sorry, I'm bombarding you with questions right now.

Speaker 4 Would you

Speaker 4 say

Speaker 4 that

Speaker 4 psychic abilities are

Speaker 4 a form of

Speaker 4 advanced intuition,

Speaker 4 like a gut feeling? Like,

Speaker 4 let me give an example. So,

Speaker 4 you're kind of talking about reading energy.

Speaker 4 Am I correct?

Speaker 4 And so, is a seal

Speaker 4 entering a room, an unknown room on a on a target, and I'm clearing the room.

Speaker 4 You can feel an energy in there. You can feel

Speaker 4 who's good,

Speaker 4 who's bad.

Speaker 4 You enter into kind of somewhat of a flow state and

Speaker 4 it becomes

Speaker 4 a very intuitive experience. And

Speaker 4 I've talked to several former colleagues of mine and everybody kind of says the same thing. You're breeding energy and

Speaker 4 you're feeling the room and

Speaker 4 it's intuition, some of it.

Speaker 4 It's a gut feeling, you know, or when you're in a place and you feel like something bad's about to happen, sometimes people get a gut feeling. Is that similar to...

Speaker 5 That's exactly what it is. And probably

Speaker 5 you're working at a higher level than intuition.

Speaker 5 If you're going into a situation and have to, you know, figure out who's good, who's bad in your inner room,

Speaker 5 it's higher than intuition.

Speaker 5 Now,

Speaker 5 They found that a lot of people in the

Speaker 5 investigative work, like a lot of cops, they develop that sixth sense.

Speaker 5 Like all of a sudden they'll solve a case all on a hunch.

Speaker 5 You know, and

Speaker 5 sometimes

Speaker 5 a lot of that they don't want to talk about it because they're afraid they're going to be laughed at. But yeah, a lot of investigative people, probably a lot of Navy SEALs,

Speaker 5 you you develop that. You develop that.

Speaker 5 You have to develop that to survive.

Speaker 5 So you're probably doing, that's more than intuition.

Speaker 5 You're operating at a higher.

Speaker 5 It's more than, but always listen to your gut.

Speaker 4 I've learned that. I've learned that the hard way several times.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I know.

Speaker 5 And I've gone, I got, yeah, me too. And I, yeah,

Speaker 5 that happens.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 I've gone against this. Every time I go against it,

Speaker 4 I regret it. And so I really try not to do that now, no matter, no matter how excited I am about an opportunity or

Speaker 4 an individual that I'm about to meet or,

Speaker 4 yeah, you get, I get a, I get a feeling about it every once in a while and then and I really try to follow that.

Speaker 4 So can you

Speaker 4 is this something that that you can can you tap into it or is it just switched on all the time?

Speaker 5 You mean the intuition.

Speaker 5 I think it works for you whenever I think it works. I really think it works for you when you need it.

Speaker 5 If you walk, if you want to walk through that door and your intuition is telling you, don't walk through that door.

Speaker 5 you know, if it's day, it could scream at you really loud, don't, don't walk through that door. And if, and if you listen to your intuition, you wouldn't walk through the door.
I think that

Speaker 5 I don't, sometimes I think your, it can, intuition and your psychic abilities can be very high, and other times they're not as high.

Speaker 5 But you can't be psychic all the time at a high level because then you're going to be crazy.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 You know,

Speaker 4 and I know there's a lot of naysayers out there about this,

Speaker 4 but you know, I think a perfect example of

Speaker 4 this would be

Speaker 4 that people can,

Speaker 4 I can't say relate to, but if you talk to rape victims, a lot of rape victims

Speaker 4 knew they were in a bad situation before it actually happened.

Speaker 4 And do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 They get a feeling that something's not right

Speaker 4 and go against their gut.

Speaker 4 And then it happens. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 And so I just, I'm trying to

Speaker 4 bring more common occurrences up to the audience so that they can

Speaker 5 always listen to the gut.

Speaker 4 Begin to wrap their head around what we're speaking about.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think that, I mean, you've had experience where, you know, like you think think of somebody and they call. Yes.

Speaker 5 Or, you know, you know that what's in, you're going out to the mail, but you know what's in the mailbox. Yes.
Yeah, that's intuition. And that's all good.
But I also think, too,

Speaker 5 it works at higher,

Speaker 5 it's more than that. And you can, it's more than that.

Speaker 4 I mean, even manifestation.

Speaker 5 How do you manifest something?

Speaker 5 Yeah, a lot of people are in Tibetan. Yeah, how do you manifest what you need? A lot of people,

Speaker 5 I haven't got that one yet.

Speaker 5 I haven't, do you have you felt like you've manifested things that you wanted in your life?

Speaker 4 I do.

Speaker 4 Several things.

Speaker 4 I do it.

Speaker 5 How did you do it? Visualize?

Speaker 4 You know, I don't.

Speaker 4 I don't.

Speaker 1 Now I'm starting to

Speaker 4 I'm understanding how tough these questions can be that I'm asking you. I don't know how to describe it.

Speaker 4 I do believe I've manifested things. I believe I've manifested,

Speaker 4 I believe that I've manifested certain things within my family. I believe I've manifested certain things within business.

Speaker 4 I believe I've manifested things, not even realizing that I've manifested them.

Speaker 4 And if you'd like, I could give you a couple of examples.

Speaker 5 Yeah, please.

Speaker 4 So it's interesting because

Speaker 4 me and Laura, who you met, were having a discussion about this.

Speaker 4 If this is all real, I mean,

Speaker 4 it's a controversial subject. And I said, I think that

Speaker 4 I absolutely believe that it's real because

Speaker 4 we don't understand. We only use 10% of our brains, supposedly.
We don't understand consciousness. And I think we're capable of so much more than we have any.

Speaker 4 We put the limitations on ourselves. Everybody,

Speaker 4 there's the old saying, you know, that

Speaker 4 there are no limits. Sky's the limit.

Speaker 4 And no matter who you are, you're putting some sort of limitation on yourself. You could be the wealthiest man in the world.

Speaker 4 Well, I still think that there are limitations in his head that are keeping him from achieving other goals. Maybe not financial, maybe not business.
But anyways.

Speaker 4 So, some examples would be:

Speaker 4 here's an accidental one that I think may have happened. When I proposed to my wife, I did it in Alaska,

Speaker 4 and I wanted to, I went there to work with a, with a, with a, with a former SEAL named Jeff Reed, who's an Iditarod racer now.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I went up to shoot some content with him for

Speaker 4 YouTube. And when we went up there, I wanted to, it was also a vacation for me and

Speaker 4 my girlfriend at the time,

Speaker 4 who's now my wife. And I told Jeff when we got there, I said, hey, I want to propose to my wife here, and I want to do it under the Northern Lights.

Speaker 4 Having no idea that, and this is in August, had no idea that Northern Lights never show up in August.

Speaker 4 And I believe he said, you'll be lucky if the northern lights popped in October. That would be the earliest time that you'll see them.
This is Fairbanks, Alaska.

Speaker 4 Later that night, that same night that I told him, and I thought, oh, shit. All right, well, I guess I'll

Speaker 4 maybe I'll get a helicopter tour and do it on top of a glacier at Denali National Park or something like that. Well,

Speaker 4 fast forward that evening,

Speaker 4 he shoots me a text and says, you're not going to believe this, but the northern lights are out right now. And you got about 15 minutes because they never stay out longer than that.

Speaker 4 And I was like, shit. I had flown my film crew up and I had to give them a ride from the airport.
And they flew in separately.

Speaker 4 So I went and picked up the first guy, went back, picked up the second guy.

Speaker 4 That's about an hour and a half's time worth. Then they want to tell me all about their their European vacation that they went on and my and Katie.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I'm freaking out because the northern lights are still kicking an hour and a half later. Then it took me about an hour and a half, two hours to find a place to do it.
Went all over the place.

Speaker 4 The northern lights

Speaker 4 finally kicked off after two, three hours of lighting up the sky. I finally found my spot.

Speaker 4 They went away, and I just thought,

Speaker 4 God, please just give me just a glimmer

Speaker 4 so that I can just propose to my girlfriend here.

Speaker 4 They came back on.

Speaker 4 She was passed out. I'm waking her up.
I'm going, hey, get up.

Speaker 4 Wake up. We got to get out.
And proposed to her as soon as we kissed. The entire sky

Speaker 4 lit up with the northern lights. There you go.

Speaker 4 And in August, which apparently is

Speaker 4 next to impossible.

Speaker 5 So you manifested that.

Speaker 4 I think so. You know, and I have

Speaker 4 lots more examples of

Speaker 4 similar things, you know, with

Speaker 4 every aspect of my life.

Speaker 4 But that was just me thinking.

Speaker 4 Fast forward.

Speaker 4 I had,

Speaker 4 you know, psychedelics actually really opened my mind up to all of this. And I had,

Speaker 4 I don't want to get into that now, but that really expanded my mind. It made me realize there are so many more possibilities

Speaker 4 than we can even imagine. And

Speaker 4 that got me into meditation. That got me into manifestation.
And I thought, you know what, I'm just going to concentrate on one thing. that I want to happen

Speaker 4 is

Speaker 4 without having intrusive thoughts into my head, so I would start meditating, which I've gotten away from that.

Speaker 4 I would put a Rife machine on. Do you know what a Rife machine is?

Speaker 4 And I would put a Rife machine on during my meditation. I would let all the thoughts clear my head.

Speaker 4 Like the way it was described to me, is think of think of thoughts like clouds and just let them all run through until you're completely at peace.

Speaker 4 And then

Speaker 4 think of what you want.

Speaker 4 And so I would do that, and

Speaker 4 things would start happening.

Speaker 4 So much so

Speaker 4 that

Speaker 4 it made me

Speaker 4 made me hesitant to vocalize things out loud about people that I maybe have screwed me over.

Speaker 4 that I don't like or whatever because now

Speaker 4 I'm beginning to realize holy shit, what you throw out into the world

Speaker 4 might actually happen.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 so I've been very

Speaker 4 hesitant to,

Speaker 4 I don't wish bad on people anymore. And I used to.

Speaker 4 And then I saw some of those things come to fruition as well.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I realized how powerful thought can actually be.

Speaker 5 Meditation is very, very powerful.

Speaker 5 Do you meditate?

Speaker 5 Not as much as I should. I used to do more, but I think it's very powerful.
I do too. I knew a woman that meditated.
She said one day she woke up.

Speaker 5 She says, it's like your body becomes like a river that you just flow.

Speaker 5 And she said, she woke up one morning and she said, I just, I wanted an apple. And she said, 10 minutes later, a guy was at her door with a bushel of apples.

Speaker 5 But you know, that's just an example. But

Speaker 5 yeah,

Speaker 5 yeah, it's be careful what you say.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I know about people.

Speaker 5 Sometimes you just have to feel,

Speaker 5 I don't even try to, I don't even dislike people anymore. I just let it go.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 It's, I guess, they have their own lessons or whatever.

Speaker 4 I'm not quite to that point yet, but I'm working on it.

Speaker 5 There's just, there's just so much. I mean, people can be funny sometimes.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 But, well, let's get back to your career at DIA.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 4 Where did we leave off?

Speaker 5 Well, the program ended in 1995. So I was able to...

Speaker 5 The program ended. I had to go back into, I went back to the headquarters at Bowling Air Force Base, and I worked as an analyst.

Speaker 5 I worked as a

Speaker 5 Russian and Chinese analyst working certain issues.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 What ended the program?

Speaker 5 I think that when Dr. Verona retired, I think we lost a lot of our support.
And

Speaker 5 they put in his replacement was a man who I don't think really wanted the program.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 Dale Graff had retired. We lost a lot of support.

Speaker 5 We had a lot of congressional support. We had a lot of

Speaker 5 high support that just went away when certain people retired. And the people coming in, they didn't have the curiosity for the

Speaker 5 learning.

Speaker 5 They didn't have the curiosity to try to learn how we think it works. If you go into a session to work an operational target, they were giving you too much information.

Speaker 5 They just didn't want us. And I think

Speaker 5 Congress was trying to help us. And they thought if they could get us to CIA,

Speaker 5 at least

Speaker 5 we may have more support. Well, when they transferred us to CIA, CIA said they wanted to do a six-month study.
And they did a six-month study, but

Speaker 5 they never

Speaker 5 gave whoever did the study,

Speaker 5 they called in a company from the outside to do a study to see if ESP works, but they never gave them people the clearances so that they could read the operational successes that we had.

Speaker 5 And they came out six months later and says, no, this doesn't work.

Speaker 5 Well, what happened was we were packing up boxes and we were packing up all the information from Fort Need and it ended up in Langley.

Speaker 5 And after they closed the program,

Speaker 5 I was back at Bowling working for DIA, and I got a call from a guy at the Department of Defense, a policymaker. And

Speaker 5 he said he wanted to go,

Speaker 5 he was a policymaker in charge of special access programs. And he was curious as to why that program was shut down.
So he called me up and said, let's go to the CIA and get the documents.

Speaker 5 He wanted to see the documents to find out why it was shut down whenever he knew there was some good work coming out of there so when we went to retrieve the documents the documents were never opened from so they never let went they the documents were never open for anybody to review them to see if um

Speaker 5 if if if we were good at if we ever solved any problems so i think the cia did not want us interesting and i think the cia gets blamed for everything.

Speaker 5 No matter what goes wrong, the CIA gets blamed for everything. And I think the CIA had that one program back in what, the 50s and 60s, where

Speaker 5 they were

Speaker 5 doing mind control on people and giving people LSD. And Congress had to stop that.
And I've, and I, and George Tennant was

Speaker 5 the head of the CIA at the time. And I think he just didn't want to take it on.
It would have been too much of a headache.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 5 And also, too, I think they had to start getting rid of smaller programs. There was the downside, and there was budget too.
And so, I think

Speaker 5 CIA must have, I think they got a message from Congress saying, get rid of your small programs or something. And they got scared, so they just erased them.

Speaker 5 But I do think that they did not give the program,

Speaker 5 when they brought in that agency to say whether or not this can be used in an operational mode, I don't think that we were given a fair shake because it was used in an operational mode and we've had successes.

Speaker 4 Do you think that the program continued on under a different name at a later date?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 And if it did, not even, when our program existed,

Speaker 5 it was congressionally mandated. We had the remote viewers, we had the research that we had research going on.

Speaker 5 The government was paying Stanford.

Speaker 5 We had a lot of research money going out. And then we had the foreign assessment, meaning we had an analyst looking at what other countries were doing.
So

Speaker 5 it was a robust

Speaker 5 program.

Speaker 5 Plus, we needed, so.

Speaker 5 Now, when I went back to DIA and worked, a lot of people would say, oh, I remote view and

Speaker 5 I'm in touch and this is what I get and this is what... I don't, no, I don't think there was.
And even if there was, they weren't doing it in the formal way that was being done.

Speaker 5 And if it was being done, where was the information given to to help people? I don't think so. I just don't think so.
And also,

Speaker 5 if if a program were to exist, at some point they would have had to look at the science. And if they would have looked at the science,

Speaker 5 certain people would have been contacted, like Ed May, SRI. No, I don't think so.
Do you think so? A lot of people say, oh, it's going on, it's going on.

Speaker 4 I do think so.

Speaker 5 Why do you say that?

Speaker 4 Because I've had former colleagues tell me that they've seen

Speaker 4 them bring them in.

Speaker 5 Bring what in?

Speaker 4 Remote viewers. Bring remote viewers in.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 And that could be, because I met a kid in Florida who said he was, he could move, he could, he could move up. He bent coins and that.
And I think he was brought in by the CIA. Interesting.

Speaker 5 But that's not. So that's one thing, but that's not a program.
I mean, that's,

Speaker 5 yeah, maybe, maybe so. I mean,

Speaker 5 maybe they do bring people in and use them.

Speaker 5 Police agencies bring people, psychics in and use them. Are the people getting paid?

Speaker 5 Are they getting paid?

Speaker 4 I don't know. I didn't personally see them,

Speaker 4 but

Speaker 4 people that have... that are very close to me, that I've worked very close with, that I still have relationships with today, have told me about this before

Speaker 4 I even knew what the hell remote viewing was. Okay.
Like, did you see that? They just brought remote viewers in. And I go,

Speaker 5 what the hell is a remote viewer?

Speaker 4 But, and now today, I've reached back out and I'm like, I remember when you told me this.

Speaker 5 I mean, I mean, maybe they were, but it still didn't make it the, it still didn't make it a,

Speaker 5 I guess we were mandated, I guess.

Speaker 5 You know, we would go to a building and work.

Speaker 5 If you bring somebody in, that's different. Are you paying them?

Speaker 4 Interesting. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 I don't know. I don't have the answers to those questions.
But I'd like to move on. I know you have,

Speaker 4 you want to talk about Yuri Geller.

Speaker 5 Okay. I have a Yuri Geller story.
Okay. In 2000, I retired from the federal government in 2010.

Speaker 5 Now, in 2015,

Speaker 5 no, 2014,

Speaker 5 Annie Jacobson wrote,

Speaker 5 she interviewed people for her book.

Speaker 5 Phenomenal. Yeah.
I got a call. So I was interviewed by Annie for her book.
And one night I received an email from her and she was going over some of my training targets.

Speaker 5 And she liked one of my training targets. It was the St.
Louis, the St. Louis Ark.
And she said, and she wanted to use that for the book because I did a good job

Speaker 5 in remote viewing the St. Louis Ark.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 she emailed me and she said, you know, read this. Is this right? I want to put the, you know, what you did about the St.
Louis Ark in the book.

Speaker 5 And I said, and I emailed her back and I said, yeah, I'll give you information. And then she emailed me back and she says, can you do it now? I'm kind of in a hurry.
I'm leaving for Israel tomorrow.

Speaker 5 I'm going to, Yuri Galler invited her to his house to come out. And I said, well, I thought you already interviewed him because she went to England to interview him.
And

Speaker 5 she said, no, I interviewed him in England, but I've never been to Israel. And he asked me to go.
he asked me to go to Israel. So I said, oh, well, good for you.

Speaker 5 So I guess while she was over there, so we ended on the note that we were talking about Louis, the St. Louis Ark.
You know, she wanted that information before she left.

Speaker 5 So she went over to Israel and she was spending time with Yuri. And at one point, she said,

Speaker 5 I want to buy postcards for my family. And they were in a tea shop.
So the owner of the tea shop came over and he said, my postcards

Speaker 5 are on that top shelf. So Yuri Galler went over, I guess either her or Yuri Galler went over, and I think it was him.
He reached reached up on the

Speaker 5 and no I think it was him because he reached up on the shelf and he picked out a postcard for her and here it was the St. Louis Ark

Speaker 5 and that's what she and and that's what her and I were discussing before she left so when she saw the picture she knew she identified it with me Wow.

Speaker 5 And she freaked, I guess she kind of freaked out and she said, oh, you're not going to believe this, but

Speaker 5 she was using this, the St. Louis Ark as one of her,

Speaker 5 for information for the paper. So anyway, I think she kind of freaked out.
So she's like, oh, my goodness, why this of all things? Why the St. Louis Ark in Israel? So anyway, he signed it for me.

Speaker 5 It says, for Angela, much energy and love. Yuri Galler.
And then he drew a picture.

Speaker 4 Wow. So what is the,

Speaker 4 that's incredible.

Speaker 4 What is the,

Speaker 4 what was the story behind your remote viewing of the St.

Speaker 5 Louis Ark? It was just a training target that I did and I did a very good job.

Speaker 5 And she just wanted to put it in the book. Like this, this, you know, this viewer was tasked.
In other words, the St. Louis Ark is an arc.
And when I remote viewed it, I, you know, drew the arc.

Speaker 5 It was just something that she wanted to show. in the book.
In the book, she describes my remote viewing session of the St. Louis Ark.

Speaker 5 Ark and when she emailed me she said this was an excellent session I want to put it in the book and she needed more information from me about the say there was nothing significant about it it was just a training target that i remote viewed at one time and that she wanted information on it right before she left before she went to meet yuri galler because she was impressed with the target so my last conversation with her was about the st louis arc So, when she went to see Yuri and he picked up the

Speaker 4 coincidence.

Speaker 5 She completely thought of me and she was like, Oh my goodness. You know, I just a couple of days ago, she was discussing this with me.

Speaker 4 Man, I mean, what do you make of stuff like that?

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 4 Does that have to do with the creating your own reality at all?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I mean,

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 4 You and Yuri Gelly Yuri Geller worked together, correct?

Speaker 5 No, I never met him.

Speaker 4 What is the

Speaker 4 catch spy story?

Speaker 5 What story is that?

Speaker 4 I have in my notes,

Speaker 4 Angela helped up, excuse me, Scott.

Speaker 5 Carmichael.

Speaker 5 Scott. No,

Speaker 5 I was on CBS Sunday Morning News. I was interviewed, and Yori was interviewed too for that program, but we weren't interviewed at the same time.
Okay.

Speaker 5 But so I did have that connection.

Speaker 5 Well, that came after the book.

Speaker 4 How did you catch a spy?

Speaker 5 I was approached by

Speaker 5 after the program ended and I was back at DIA working as an analyst. You know, people would approach me to, can you do this? Can you do that? Because they knew what I did.

Speaker 5 And um sometimes i'd help them sometimes i wouldn't but i but there was one man that really wanted help and he um

Speaker 5 he asked if if um

Speaker 5 he asked me if i would help him and i think

Speaker 5 you know he got the okay from some higher ops but we had to do it on private time we couldn't do it on government time so i was helping this man out do it was a very sensitive project and um and I was helping him, but whatever information I was getting, I don't know what I was getting because I didn't even know what the operation was.

Speaker 5 I gave him some information and he called in a colleague of his by the name of Scott Carmichael. And he said, Scott, I have some information here that I know what you're working on.

Speaker 5 And this information may be helpful to, you know, for some of your friends over at the State Department.

Speaker 5 By friends, he meant people that he worked with that share information with the State Department. And Scott said, Well, how did you get this information?

Speaker 5 And the guy and the man said, I got it from a psychic.

Speaker 5 And Scott said, from a psychic, are you crazy? I'm not going to go to the State Department and tell them that this information came from a psychic.

Speaker 5 He said, I wouldn't, I'm not going to do that. So, anyway, Scott said that he left,

Speaker 5 but he said it, you know, he had this problem.

Speaker 5 He had this case that he just couldn't get

Speaker 5 out of his mind. He just couldn't get out of his mind.
So he went back to my friend and he said,

Speaker 5 how does this work? So the guy said, well, here, just put what...

Speaker 5 give what do you want to know and they'll make up a little envelope and they'll put something in the envelope and they'll mix the envelope in with this guy's stuff, and then they'll pick it out.

Speaker 5 And some point, I would be working on Scott's project. So, I guess one day I woke up, or when they gave me this project, and I don't know what I said.
I identified a guy as I think Baker.

Speaker 5 I said the last name was Baker, maybe the first name was Jeff.

Speaker 5 And I said he was Australian. I said he was Australian, and he was going to sell U.S.
secrets. Well,

Speaker 5 that came out immediately. So Scott came back and he said

Speaker 5 that was right.

Speaker 5 They said that there was what happened was the United States had a unit in Australia that worked with the Australians and they were imagery analysts.

Speaker 5 And I guess one of the imagery analysts tried to sell, he

Speaker 5 when you try to sell secrets, you never use your real name. So they knew his real name wasn't Jeff Baker, but they didn't know who he was.
So now we know that they knew whatever I said was right.

Speaker 5 But now they came back to me and they said,

Speaker 5 who is Jeff Baker? So I described him as an Australian. I said what he looked like.
I said his age range. I said he was on drugs.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I don't know what else I said, but so now they kind of had a profile of this person.

Speaker 5 And so now they were trying to look for him. Now, Scott worked for the FBI because if there's any spies, the FBI always arrests them because that's the arresting agency.

Speaker 5 But Scott did not tell the FBI he was working with a psychic because he said if it ever went to court, it may have been thrown out because they received information from a psychic.

Speaker 5 We were kind of going along with the case and Scott didn't think I was doing too good, but in retrospect, I don't think they were asking the questions right. And he even admitted that.
But

Speaker 5 there seemed to be, it seemed to be, I did really good at the beginning, and then things were kind of going and weren't going real good.

Speaker 5 And then I don't know what I said. I said there was going to be a meeting that was going to take place.
I felt that the guy would be apprehended.

Speaker 5 And there was supposed to be a meeting on a certain day.

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 now, when this kid when this person went to the singapore embassy to um

Speaker 5 sell the secrets the singapore embassy contacted the united states and said we there's a guy here trying to sell your secrets so something was set up like like a what do you call one of those plans where you try to lure the guy in um

Speaker 5 a sting so at that point they decided to do a sting operation and at that time i was kind of losing i really wasn't doing really good at the case but i don't know what happened i was able to provide some information and i can't even remember what it is scott wrote a kindle book called unconventional method but at that point i i didn't feel i felt like this is this isn't i knew it wasn't going real well but scott came in

Speaker 5 The FBI agent asked Scott to come in on a Sunday to work. They really wanted to work the case.
And Scott started to read some message traffic. And

Speaker 5 he said, he doesn't, whatever I said, whatever scenarios I was describing, this information was in this message traffic.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 Scott said, I think this guy, his last name was Wes Pierre. He was Australia.

Speaker 5 Scott said, I think this is our guy, that this is the guy we want. He's Australian.
And the FBI agent said, No,

Speaker 5 the person we're looking for is Canadian.

Speaker 5 And they went back and forth. And Scott kept saying, Are you sure he's not Australian? And she said, No, he's Canadian.

Speaker 5 So Scott said, Well, let me look something up because you can have dual citizenship.

Speaker 5 And here, the guy had dual citizenship. He was Australian and Canadian.
And here, that was the guy that

Speaker 5 they were able to apprehend.

Speaker 4 Wow.

Speaker 4 What does it feel like to you when you...

Speaker 5 Oh, I was all happy because I hate to be wrong. I mean, I'm very happy when I'm right

Speaker 5 because you're not right all the time. You know, it's not, you don't always get it.
I mean,

Speaker 5 I can remote view and,

Speaker 5 you know, it can be very vague. It can be very, very vague.
You know, you know, it can be very vague.

Speaker 5 And a lot of times you're not right, or a lot of times you may feel that you're right, but people aren't there to check out the information.

Speaker 5 So if you have, you know, if I'm giving information and it's right and somebody checks it out and it's right and it goes and it hits, oh, I'm very happy. What,

Speaker 4 what is your, what is

Speaker 5 what is your your favorite operation that you've been a part of when it comes to um i think the one with the finding the guy in the finding

Speaker 5 Charles Jordan, the fugitive.

Speaker 5 He was

Speaker 5 the customs agent,

Speaker 5 the drug guy that went bad. I think that probably was the biggest because nobody ever thought he would be in Wyoming.

Speaker 5 That I did like doing the hostages because I felt like I was really, I felt like my information was acted upon to help them. So that made me feel good.

Speaker 4 Anything with kids?

Speaker 5 Yes, but I, yes. Can you go into that?

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah,

Speaker 5 trying to locate some kids. It may have been human trafficking.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 That was hard. That was hard.
I was able to give some locations, but I don't know if they, but I never had any feedback on that. So I figured it probably didn't go anywhere.

Speaker 5 But it could have been more of a secret, more of a secret type operation too

Speaker 5 so now you're teaching at the monroe institute well i only teach the remote view part too it's all you know like i only teach um twice twice a year but it's always nice to connect with joe do you enjoy it oh yeah oh yeah just oh you know joe we just

Speaker 5 Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 Have you ever worked with Joe?

Speaker 5 Oh yeah, he's wonderful.

Speaker 4 Have you ever in the old days?

Speaker 5 No, he retired in 1984, and I came in the unit in 1986.

Speaker 4 Okay, okay.

Speaker 5 But I bet him through Ed May, and then I, and, but, yeah, he's wonderful.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I

Speaker 4 got nothing but good things to say about him and his wife. But

Speaker 4 so what is, tell me a little bit about the Monroe Institute.

Speaker 5 Well, it's a, Bob Monroe was a man. I guess he lived in New York City.
He was a radio personality, I think. I think, I don't know if he owned a radio station, but he used to have out of bodies.

Speaker 5 And I guess he went to a psychologist because he thought he was crazy. And the guy said, no, you're not crazy.
You're having out-of-body experiences. So he built the Monroe Institute.

Speaker 5 And people can go down there. And when you listen to certain frequencies,

Speaker 5 it's just teaching people how to be psychic, how to go out of body.

Speaker 5 It's like a metaphysical institute.

Speaker 4 So can you walk us us through what you teach?

Speaker 5 Oh, I just teach the second part of remote. I just teach the

Speaker 5 remote viewing to the last segment. And it's just nothing much.
I mean, it's nothing much. You just put the,

Speaker 5 you talk to the students, you see what they learned. You know, what did you learn?

Speaker 5 Look at their results.

Speaker 5 You have to teach them how to report back.

Speaker 5 I think a lot of times when you teach people to remote view, I think people can get the picture in the target, but it's hard to come out and describe what you see.

Speaker 5 So teaching people how to remote, how to come back and remote report back,

Speaker 5 and just getting to know the students, finding out, you know, where at what level are they. A lot of times I recommend books to read if, you know,

Speaker 5 if they're interested in meditation channeling, I tell them what books I would recommend. I listen to people.
Sometimes something will work for one person, but not the other.

Speaker 4 So do you sit in with the, do you sit in their sessions with them?

Speaker 5 No, I usually, I just do it by Zoom mostly.

Speaker 4 Oh, okay. It's by Zoom.
So what, so it's, so it's individual?

Speaker 5 Sometimes it is. No, it's with the group, but sometimes individuals get special attention.
Okay.

Speaker 4 Okay. So what,

Speaker 4 I mean, what is the curriculum of the, of

Speaker 4 part two?

Speaker 5 Joe teaches them how to remote view.

Speaker 5 And then I get them at the end to see how well they remote viewed.

Speaker 5 And then they do have questions on other things. And then we kind of take it out of remote viewing.
They have a lot of questions on other things.

Speaker 5 What other things?

Speaker 5 Like channeling.

Speaker 4 What is channeling?

Speaker 5 The automatic writing.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 5 They just want another.

Speaker 5 meditation, like

Speaker 5 meditation,

Speaker 5 how they remote view. You know,

Speaker 5 how are they remote viewing?

Speaker 5 I don't want them to do the steps like the CRV.

Speaker 5 And how to report back mostly. By the time I have them, they know how to remote view.

Speaker 4 Do they do the hemisync?

Speaker 5 No,

Speaker 5 I don't think they they do the hemisync in remote viewing. They do it in something else.
If you want hemisync, you have to go to the Monroe Institute and sign up for that. That's not remote viewing.

Speaker 4 What is hemi-sync then?

Speaker 5 They put,

Speaker 5 you put, you listen to sounds, you listen to music, and it works the brain a certain way so that you can go out of body.

Speaker 4 So, is it?

Speaker 4 Can you describe that a little bit more in detail? It's why that works.

Speaker 5 Because it's the mechanisms in the brain.

Speaker 5 It's the mechanism. The brain has to work a certain way for you to go out of body.
And that's what the music or the sounds of the hemisink do. They put your body in the frequency so that

Speaker 5 you have to have a certain frequency so you can go out of body. Okay.
And that's what Monroe did.

Speaker 5 That's what the Monroe Institute was all about.

Speaker 5 Teaching people how to go out of body and

Speaker 5 where does the brain,

Speaker 5 what frequency does the brain need to be so you can go out of body?

Speaker 4 Can I ask a question? Why does it, what is the point of going out of body? Why would you trigger that?

Speaker 5 Probably to,

Speaker 5 I think that it expands one's consciousness.

Speaker 5 I think one can learn that there's more to life than just going out of body.

Speaker 5 I think that if you, it's better than remote viewing, because if you have a,

Speaker 5 if you have a problem, if you want a problem, if you're looking for somebody and you can leave your body and go find them, you're going to have all your senses and all of your thinking.

Speaker 5 It's not going to be fuzzy. You're going to be so aware of where you you are, where the person is.
You can come back and report that.

Speaker 5 It's not going to be so fuzzy as remote viewing, where you're only using like the right part of the brain.

Speaker 4 Do you still go out of body?

Speaker 5 Sometimes, but not like I like I used to.

Speaker 4 Why not? Is that a personal decision?

Speaker 5 No, no, no, I have no control over it.

Speaker 5 I never did.

Speaker 5 I never did.

Speaker 4 Do you like going out of body? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 If you were out of body right now, what would you

Speaker 4 be searching for an answer to something?

Speaker 5 I'd probably be looking at everything around here.

Speaker 4 Where's the farthest you've traveled to?

Speaker 5 I think the sun.

Speaker 4 I think the sun. What was that like?

Speaker 5 Bright, very bright. I would imagine.
Very bright.

Speaker 5 I was very happy. I remembered.

Speaker 4 Can you

Speaker 4 Can you feel heat?

Speaker 4 Can you feel cold?

Speaker 4 Can you feel a doorknob? Yeah,

Speaker 5 I could feel myself walking through. Yeah, you can.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 I think it's a mechanism inside the brain.

Speaker 5 Just something clicks. It's like people that levitate.

Speaker 5 Something in there is working.

Speaker 5 It clicks. There's something, it's a mechanism inside the brain.
And that's what we, it's, it's just a mechanic,

Speaker 5 it's just something in the brain just clicks.

Speaker 4 Is it like our brain is holding in our consciousness? And

Speaker 4 when that, when that something in the brain is unlocked, it releases our consciousness.

Speaker 5 It releases us into a new, to another set of conscious, I guess. Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 4 But it's still you, though. You realize that's you on the floor when you're out of body.
Yeah. And you're still making your own decisions on where you want to go.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Where are some other places you've traveled out of body?

Speaker 5 I think I went from,

Speaker 5 I think I went like from Maryland to Pennsylvania to visit my family.

Speaker 5 One time I think I went to Chicago. I don't know why I went to Chicago.
I just want,

Speaker 5 I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 But mostly, it's mostly, it's just

Speaker 5 it's it's mostly just nature, stars, trees.

Speaker 4 Very interesting. What am I not asking that I should be asking you?

Speaker 5 No,

Speaker 5 I just think that

Speaker 5 I think that you're probably very aware and intuitive yourself.

Speaker 4 Why do you think that?

Speaker 5 Because you told me some of the experiences that you had. There's a book called Human Design.
Have you read that book?

Speaker 4 No, ma'am, I'm not.

Speaker 5 It puts people into certain categories. Like you're either like a manifester, a generator, a creator.

Speaker 5 And it puts people into four personality types.

Speaker 5 It's a very interesting book.

Speaker 4 What's that book called?

Speaker 5 It's called Human Design.

Speaker 4 Human Design. I'm going to look that up and try to get the author on here, if he's still alive.

Speaker 5 No, it's a good book. A lot of people, in fact, I,

Speaker 5 yeah, just,

Speaker 5 it's, it's the different

Speaker 5 It just put it puts people in four different personalities.

Speaker 5 You could be a manifester because I'm a generator, so it would be harder. It'd be hard for me to be a manifester.

Speaker 4 What is a generator?

Speaker 5 You have to let things come to you. You react to things.

Speaker 5 A manifester will go out and get things. The generator.

Speaker 5 information has to come to you and then you act you react to the information. And

Speaker 5 that's how generators get something. They react to information.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 5 Okay, that's how they, yeah, different.

Speaker 4 Do you put any significance on certain numbers? So I'll give you an example. I

Speaker 4 had

Speaker 5 a

Speaker 4 spiritual experience in Sedona.

Speaker 4 and which I believe God was speaking to me.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 shortly thereafter, I started seeing the number 444 everywhere I went. I still see it all the time.

Speaker 5 Okay, you look up the meaning of 444.

Speaker 4 It means your guardian angels are with you and want you to know that they're with you.

Speaker 5 Okay, then you're highly protected. 444 also eats up.

Speaker 5 ends up for 12. So that 12 could mean a three.

Speaker 5 And that's also a spirit. It's also protection.
Really?

Speaker 5 Three is also, yeah, three is like big, yeah, protection.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 when people start seeing numbers and when people start finding coins,

Speaker 5 it's

Speaker 5 when I went to see John Edward in Baltimore,

Speaker 5 you know, he said, number, when people start seeing numbers, pay attention to numbers. It's those are, you're getting messages.

Speaker 5 And all of, and then all of a sudden, somebody may pass and you start finding coins that person is with you coins what do you mean what do you what do you mean sometimes when people die people like their loved ones will start just finding coins everywhere like pennies and

Speaker 5 they just did you ever find coins

Speaker 5 no not that i'm aware of yeah i had a girlfriend who um

Speaker 5 every time somebody died in her family she would find coins and her mother died and she found coins so she knew that her mother was with her.

Speaker 5 I had a friend whose

Speaker 5 mother died and the mother told her she would give her a sign that she's okay.

Speaker 5 So it was winter time

Speaker 5 and

Speaker 5 this bird kept showing up on my girlfriend's balcony.

Speaker 5 And my girlfriend would say, why is that? I wonder why that bird's here. It's so cold.
Because, you know, birds fly south for the winter. And she said, that bird showed up every day.

Speaker 5 And the girl was like, Where's that stupid bird here? And here she finally was like her mother. And then she says, Oh, okay, you're okay.
And then she never saw the bird again.

Speaker 4 Wow. Do you believe in mediumship?

Speaker 5 Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Can you do mediumship?

Speaker 5 Sometimes.

Speaker 4 So, where are those

Speaker 4 souls?

Speaker 5 I guess I guess I guess we call it heaven right

Speaker 5 it's like they're on the other side of the veil I guess we that's what we call our heaven so they haven't been reincarnated yet

Speaker 4 can you acc do you believe you can access once somebody's already been reincarnated

Speaker 5 yeah but probably but mostly but yeah but you just don't come back that easy. I mean, there's a whole process to it.

Speaker 4 What do you mean by that?

Speaker 5 You go over and you just don't come back.

Speaker 5 You got to go over there and you've got to,

Speaker 5 you have to take, I don't know, you're with other people. You have to take stock of what you do.
You have to decide, do you want to come back?

Speaker 5 You just don't go and then come back and let's get reincarnated. There's a process to it, I think.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 4 I mean, can you get a little more descriptive on the process?

Speaker 5 Well, I think when you go over, they say that

Speaker 5 your loved ones are there, and that when you pass over, that your loved ones will meet you. And then they

Speaker 5 and then they sort of take you into these, into where, I guess, the,

Speaker 5 where the God source is, and it's really nice. And that more or less, you can do what you want.
If you want to study, they have like the, if you want to study, you can study.

Speaker 5 If you want to fish, you can fish. You can do whatever you want.
However, you do take stock.

Speaker 5 What did you learn in this life? How can you be better? And if you come back, you're with the same people.

Speaker 5 And the role, you just get better.

Speaker 4 Do you think it's a completely different experience when you come back? Or are you reliving kind of the same?

Speaker 5 Well, yeah, it's the same energy. But yeah,

Speaker 5 you will still have some of the same energy from your previous lives. That's what you have to work out.

Speaker 4 Do you believe there are new souls and old souls?

Speaker 4 How are new souls?

Speaker 5 They're young and immature.

Speaker 4 How do they come about?

Speaker 5 What do you mean, how do they come about?

Speaker 4 I mean, if there's old souls and new souls,

Speaker 4 what creates a new soul?

Speaker 5 Probably someone that hasn't had many earth experiences.

Speaker 4 Do you think you can tell the difference between an old soul and a new soul?

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 You can tell by a person's face.

Speaker 4 What do you think I am?

Speaker 5 Probably an old soul, because

Speaker 5 you're searching. You're searching.

Speaker 5 You're searching.

Speaker 4 Let's talk about astrology.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 But when's your birthday?

Speaker 4 October 4th, 1982.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 So you're a Libra?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 5 Okay, so what do you want to know about astrology?

Speaker 4 How does it work?

Speaker 5 Oh, I don't know. I don't know that much about astrology, although I do know astrologers.

Speaker 5 You know, they,

Speaker 5 and it's, it's more than your birth sign, but there's a lot that

Speaker 5 they look at,

Speaker 5 okay, the time you were born and where you were born. And they look at other things.
They look, I guess they look at the 12 planets and where they were at the time of your birth.

Speaker 5 And then from that, they get a fuller picture of who you are.

Speaker 5 Then once they, that's your personality, and then they can take that and do projections into the future as to what could happen to you.

Speaker 5 So you may be a Libra, but your rising sign would be another,

Speaker 5 your rising sign gives you more of your personality and your moon placement gives you your emotions.

Speaker 5 So even though you're a Libra, you've got to look at the other things to figure out, to give you the full picture of who you are.

Speaker 4 How does that determine things?

Speaker 5 I think it's just great to know your personality and know who you are.

Speaker 5 A lot of times people will go to astrologers to look at, you know, where were the planets when I was born and what does it all mean?

Speaker 5 And it gives, I think it can help give people a better sense about themselves, who they are, why they're here, what they would be good at, what they wouldn't be good at.

Speaker 5 And then you have transits, like if somebody's looking for a new job, there may be a transit coming up that's saying, well, this would be a good time to look for a new job or

Speaker 5 this would be a good time to buy a new house.

Speaker 4 And they they look at and then they can take that and project it into the future man i don't know what questions to ask because i wasn't anticipating going here but

Speaker 4 i mean what what is it about

Speaker 4 the dates

Speaker 5 the moon all of this stuff that kind of predetermines it sounds like it predetermines your personality and your strengths it can but i mean weren't the wise men, weren't they supposed to be astrologers?

Speaker 5 They were.

Speaker 5 And I think Jesus was an Essene. He was an Essene.

Speaker 5 And that those people, they were vegetarians and they were astrologers.

Speaker 5 And the other tribes didn't like them because in the Essene tribe, women had a lot of power.

Speaker 5 And it made the other tribes upset. And that's why they made they didn't like mary magdalene or it was it was the tribe that jesus belonged to he was in a scene

Speaker 4 when you look at somebody do you feel that you can tell if they're a good person or not right off the bat oh sure what else

Speaker 5 you can do it too

Speaker 4 i feel like i can but i also have been wrong several times

Speaker 5 and there's some people that are out of the ball oh yeah and there's some people that will surprise you and like my cousin would say well we we just didn't see that one coming.

Speaker 5 You know, if you're wrong, all you say is, well, I didn't see that one coming. But yeah, most of the time.

Speaker 5 But yeah, I mean, of course, there's always going to be somebody that's going to take you by surprise.

Speaker 4 Well, Angela, I know you have a flight to catch.

Speaker 5 Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 I just want to say thank you for coming.

Speaker 5 Oh, it's been my pleasure.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I have really enjoyed this conversation. And I hope we stay in touch.

Speaker 5 Oh, we will. I'm going to get you some books.
I've got to get you.

Speaker 5 thanks

Speaker 5 okay thanks a lot my pleasure

Speaker 6 big news wayfair's black friday sale is here right now score up to 80 off everything home these are our best deals of the year shop way bears black friday sale now at waybear.com

Speaker 2 wayfair every style every home