#256 Tucker Carlson - Epstein’s Emails, Political Blackmail and What We Already Knew All Along

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Speaker 5 Tucker Carlson. All right, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 6 Welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 5 This place is so unbelievable. It is.

Speaker 5 You told me about it, but it's way cooler even than you described. So I love this.

Speaker 6 Thank you.

Speaker 5 I like a man who builds his own world because it reflects your value. It reflects what you care about.

Speaker 6 Thank you. We put a lot of

Speaker 6 hard and soul under this.

Speaker 5 It's very obvious. Thank you.
and i just i think it's great i like building things i like people who build things

Speaker 5 and i think it's very important to live and work in an environment that

Speaker 5 that is beautiful or at least something that you consider beautiful i think it's really important and beauty is totally underrated as an elevator of spirit as a path to clarity

Speaker 5 The whole modern world is so ugly and it's ugly on purpose. You can't think clearly about anything.
And you come to a place like this and you're like, oh, this is a man who really thinks about things.

Speaker 6 Thank you, man. I just, you know, I like,

Speaker 6 I think work satisfaction is extremely fucking important. And not, you know, not just for myself, but, you know, I think I told you, you know, my team is like my family on your podcast.

Speaker 6 And we talked about that again.

Speaker 5 I feel the same way.

Speaker 6 You know, this morning at breakfast. And I just, I just want everybody to love where the fuck they work.

Speaker 5 Love it. You know, and

Speaker 6 be proud of where they work.

Speaker 5 Like, what are you doing with your life? No, I completely, I completely agree with you. It's expensive to do that.
So that's why most people don't.

Speaker 6 Yep. Yep.

Speaker 6 Bub. Well, I like.
I don't see if I got to spend it on.

Speaker 5 No, I completely agree.

Speaker 6 Fucking gay new watch or something.

Speaker 5 Some dumb vacation? I totally agree. I totally agree.

Speaker 6 But,

Speaker 5 well, I mean,

Speaker 6 holy shit, dude.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 I know. What the fuck is going on in the world? Well, there's a spiritual war underway, which I didn't take seriously enough.

Speaker 5 And you can't understand anything that's happening unless you understand that. I leaned out.

Speaker 6 I leaned like, just like we were talking about this, I had to, I had to, I, I just had to lean out. I can't tell what's real anymore.

Speaker 6 We talked about that on your podcast. It just keeps getting fucking worse.
And, and, you know, I just, I, I, I'm just looking for,

Speaker 6 you know,

Speaker 6 I'm just looking for something that I can have an impact on. And, and, um,

Speaker 6 it's getting hard to to find.

Speaker 5 Well,

Speaker 5 you know, it's hard to gauge the impact of really anything because our timeline is totally distorted. And at least I'll speak for myself.

Speaker 5 I always think that if I say something that's true, it will have an immediate effect. And there is a kind of vanity to that.
Like, can't anyone hear what I'm saying?

Speaker 5 Like, I already showed that's a lie. Like, why aren't you adjusting your behavior? And it's like, well, because I'm not God, actually.
I'm not in charge of anything.

Speaker 5 I'm a podcaster, which is important to remember if you're me, because there is so much vanity. People are always like, oh, it's so important what you're doing.
And it's like, really?

Speaker 5 If I was doing something useful, I guess we wouldn't be here, would we?

Speaker 5 And that is so frustrating that I opted, we had the song Conversation Wonderful, which I wish was on tape because it was so deep. But I know.
Don't worry.

Speaker 6 Everything on breakfast is recording.

Speaker 5 We should have songed.

Speaker 5 But no, I mean, I know the feeling so well. And you were saying, I can't even deal this.
I don't want to deal with it. And I said, oh, man, In June, after

Speaker 5 we, the United States government, bombed the nuclear facilities to really no effect, let's be honest.

Speaker 5 I was so frustrated and disappointed and mad that people aren't listening to me.

Speaker 5 I kind of retreated. And I live in a place where you can retreat to our fishing camp, which I sincerely love, but really

Speaker 5 its signature quality is its remoteness. It's not near anything at all.
And we did have Starlink put in a couple of years ago. So could text from there.

Speaker 5 So like, why wouldn't you go there in all your off hours with your dogs and just like live alone in the woods? So I literally did that. And then

Speaker 5 in September,

Speaker 5 you know, Charlie Kirk was my friend, was murdered. And with the encouragement of another friend of mine, I began to realize that what I was doing was totally self-indulgent.

Speaker 5 And that's not, we're not here to.

Speaker 5 enjoy solitude in the woods or enjoy our fishing camp, the fruits of our labors, very cheap fishing camp. but still it's like so close to my heart.

Speaker 5 And what I really love about this country and my life is being in that in the woods. So, but that's not why we're here.
That's totally self-indulgent.

Speaker 5 Just because my deepest desire is not hookers and blow,

Speaker 5 anymore.

Speaker 5 Anymore?

Speaker 5 No, but I can tell myself, and I have literally said out loud to people around me, like, really, my darkest sin is I like to sit, you know, far away in the woods up near Canada with my dogs and fish and maybe have an occasional cigarette or whatever, but that's as naughty as I get.

Speaker 5 I've got nothing to apologize for.

Speaker 6 Why do you say that's a big sin? That's your biggest sin? Well,

Speaker 5 I would be joking. I would say, look, you know, okay, yes, I do like, I mean, we had a, you know, family drama over Starlink.
I don't want Starlink.

Speaker 5 But it was like, well, then no one knows where you are. And I'm like, well, right.
The fucking boys.

Speaker 5 Right. Well, I did give in, which is a mixed blessing.
But anyway, the point is I would always say the worst thing I want to do is retreat from the world into the woods and fish or hunt.

Speaker 5 I mean, those are truly my deepest desires. And I just always would joke and be like, you know,

Speaker 5 you could have someone else in your family who's like in Vegas getting chlamydia, or there's me who just wants to go fishing for the week, you know, or whatever. But what I realized was,

Speaker 5 yes, of course, fishing alone with your dogs is better than getting chlamydia,

Speaker 5 you know, at the Scrim and Rhino, but both of them are retreating from your duty, especially if you're a middle-aged man who has, you know, whatever.

Speaker 5 There's no reason for me not to do my best at this point. There's nothing in my path that prevents me from telling the truth that I have an obligation to do that.
That's why, that's why you're here.

Speaker 5 There's a mission. There is a mission for every man.

Speaker 5 And your job is to find out what it is and dutifully do it or attempt to do it. And do you see the fruits? Of course not.
You don't. And maybe there aren't any fruits.

Speaker 5 And maybe you're wrong because you don't freaking know. You're just a man.
You're totally on the wrong path sometimes and don't even know it. It's happened to me a million times.
But you have to try.

Speaker 5 And it can't just be, as I always would say to people close to me, it's not all blowjobs and French toast, man. Like there's a part where you have to work.
No, that's the dream, right?

Speaker 5 Blowjobs and French toast, you know?

Speaker 6 Oh, man. I mean,

Speaker 6 I don't, I don't know, Tucker. I

Speaker 6 have like this huge internal battle going on right now. I get it.

Speaker 6 Again, we talked,

Speaker 6 we should probably stop having breakfast from now on and just

Speaker 6 do the actual interview here. But

Speaker 6 I'm not going to quit. But

Speaker 6 I go back and forth. I mean, there's so much.
Yes, there's a lot of positives and you talk to a lot of cool people and I get, you know, got to know you. And

Speaker 6 I'm very thankful for everything. But, you know, like I think about, I got a fucking,

Speaker 6 a large property about

Speaker 6 45 minutes south of here. And

Speaker 6 lots of acreage, middle of nowhere, very,

Speaker 6 very inexpensive property that I've owned since I moved here.

Speaker 5 Those are the best, inexpensive rural property.

Speaker 6 It's a little bitty fucking hunt cabin that's

Speaker 6 like

Speaker 6 it's

Speaker 6 you wouldn't want to bring a woman there.

Speaker 5 My wife is there. Those are the best guys.

Speaker 6 But we used to go before all this shit happened, we used to go down there and

Speaker 5 just escape.

Speaker 6 We wanted to escape all the way back then. And

Speaker 6 we don't have time to do that anymore. And I went down there last weekend to actually just get out of here, even though I live in the woods.
That's farther in the woods.

Speaker 6 I just fucking got down there, man. And I was like, it made me sad.
Like, I was like,

Speaker 6 Katie and I used to come down down here all the time,

Speaker 6 not talk to anybody, no, no cell reception, no internet, no nothing, like no jets flying over, no chemtrails, no, no noise, nothing, just solitude, nature, and a couple of people cooking meth across the street.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 it just made me sad, man. And like, I'm like, I think about it now, and I'm like,

Speaker 6 those were like better times. Oh, yeah.
You know, and and now, you know, I've built this business and

Speaker 6 fame has set in and it's,

Speaker 6 you know, when you're building this shit, you sure as hell don't think you're going to look back on the times that you were before you even thought about building it and go,

Speaker 6 those were simpler, better times.

Speaker 6 It makes me fucking sad.

Speaker 5 You can always be sure you look backward and consider time that has passed simpler and better. That's just the nature of life.
You will always look back.

Speaker 5 I look back on the 80s and I'm like, damn, I correspond with my girlfriend by letter.

Speaker 6 You know, how great that was.

Speaker 5 I just think that's the way people are, but I also, I think of it this way. It's like, and I think that's not just of myself, but of everyone around me.

Speaker 5 The more blessed you are, the deeper your obligation. That's just true.
The point of leadership is to protect the people

Speaker 5 you lead. I don't believe in a flat society.
I'm not a populist in any way. I believe that no structure, beginning with the family, works without leadership.

Speaker 5 And so I think a lot about what is leadership. And leadership is sacrifice.
And so the more you've been given, the deeper your responsibility to sacrifice for others. I really believe that.

Speaker 5 And that's obvious when you're working hard toward a goal. You know, I'm putting everything into what I'm striving to achieve.
You know, I'm fighting my way up.

Speaker 5 The problem for men, and so few men actually achieve this that it's almost never talked about. The problem for men is getting what you want.
The problem is winning. That's what destroys you.

Speaker 5 The fight doesn't, I mean, you've been in real fights, obviously. With real fights, I happen to know.
Not just with others, but with yourself.

Speaker 5 And you prevailed. That's way easier than winning.
Winning is what destroys you.

Speaker 5 David was not intimidated when he picked up the stone against Goliath and then ran up and beheaded him. The problem set in when he sees this girl and he's like, I can bang her.
I'm king.

Speaker 5 He destroys himself.

Speaker 5 That is the template for the way that men are.

Speaker 5 And no one tells you that because, again, there are so few people who actually get what they want.

Speaker 5 And there's no support group for people who won. But I know a lot of them.
I know that you do too.

Speaker 5 And a consistent theme in every story is the second I got what I wanted, I could feel myself starting to self-destruct and lose confidence and faith in myself and my mission and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 And that's one of the gifts that we get, I think, as people, if we pay attention, is the humility that comes from failing.

Speaker 5 Like every time time I've thought I've won and I'm like get cynical and decadent and like, yeah, I'm in charge now. Then I get fired or humiliated again.

Speaker 5 And then I look back and I'm like, oh, thank you, God, for humiliating me because it restores a sense of purpose and takes me down from hubris to reality, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 5 But underneath it all is the fact that the more you've been given, the greater your obligation to others.

Speaker 5 And as I said, as I told you in great detail at breakfast, I'm not going to bore your listeners, but I just went through this where I was like, fuck this. Fuck this.
Like, go wreck your society.

Speaker 5 I'm out. I'm going to do my interviews.
And like,

Speaker 5 but I'm not getting involved in this process because it's hopelessly broken. And like, I can only be frustrated by it.
I can have no material effect. And I'm just out.

Speaker 5 And I've got a million interests. I have a huge family who I am very engaged with.
And like, I'm just going to attend to their needs. And I'm not going to be a participate in anything beyond my world.

Speaker 5 And then a really close and honest friend of mine wrote me this very long letter the day Charlie was killed. And it's like, actually, and it was very nice.

Speaker 5 It wasn't scolding, but it was actually corrective in that he said,

Speaker 5 you are self-indulgent, which I am. I am

Speaker 5 totally self-indulgent. I know that about myself, of course, and it's obvious.
But you are being self-indulgent.

Speaker 5 And you have a moral obligation to do everything you can with the ever-present knowledge. It mostly won't work, but it doesn't matter whether you live to see its fruits.

Speaker 5 You are obligated to try to help, help in some way. And I, and I was like, and I, of course, I showed it to my wife.
It was like, God is speaking through him. You need to pay attention.

Speaker 5 I was like, you're right. You're probably right.
So that actually, that conversation, which was,

Speaker 5 well, it was September 11th, I happened to know.

Speaker 5 when I called him to thank him for this letter, that totally changed my attitude. And I'm just so grateful to have friends who are willing, will take the time to be honest with me about my faults.
And

Speaker 5 people I really trust, I'm not, you know, take a lot of criticism.

Speaker 5 I don't give a shit, but like for the 30 people whose opinions I care about, some of them are really willing to take the time to be honest with me. And I needed to hear that.

Speaker 5 And I've been in a good mood ever since, despite, you know, we've had a lot of drama in my life and my family since September 11th.

Speaker 5 It's only been a little over two months, but it's like a different world.

Speaker 5 And since Charlie was murdered, but I've never stopped being cheerful and hopeful because I know that there's a mission way beyond me.

Speaker 5 And I don't know its outlines. I don't know everything about the mission.

Speaker 5 I have no secret knowledge, but I can feel very strongly that my job is to tell the truth to the extent that I can and that I'm able to see it, which is imperfectly.

Speaker 5 But I know it's outlined sometimes, and I have an obligation to say what they are, no matter what the cost to me. And that is such a liberating

Speaker 5 feeling.

Speaker 6 It's hard to, I don't know, man.

Speaker 6 I just look at all the,

Speaker 6 we were talking about this earlier, too, but you know,

Speaker 6 you think that

Speaker 6 because what you become and what you built,

Speaker 6 that you have an impact.

Speaker 6 And, um,

Speaker 6 but do you

Speaker 2 we've called do any of us I mean in

Speaker 5 you know, and I hate to quote Conan O'Brien, but one of my favorite observations comes from him. In the end, every grave goes unvisited.

Speaker 5 I live directly across from, I see my parents' graves from my kitchen. And so I visit my parents' graves a lot and think about them and really love them, blessed to have them as parents.

Speaker 5 And I'll be buried next to them. But I think a lot.
I'm like, in the end, like, this will be a subdivision or whatever. Who knows what it'll be? Nuclear wasteland.

Speaker 5 I mean, it doesn't, we don't know the future.

Speaker 5 And we can be certain that we will be forgotten and that all of our efforts will be unrecognized by other people, but that doesn't mean that we don't have an obligation in the present to try our best, to do our best.

Speaker 5 And I think that everyone has different callings. Of course, everyone has different callings.

Speaker 5 But I feel strongly that my calling is to tell the truth with the knowledge that most of the time it's fruitless, or if it bears fruit, I won't see it.

Speaker 5 It's planting an oak tree, like you're not going to see it become an oak,

Speaker 5 but you plant it anyway because that's your duty. And I didn't serve in the military and I didn't grow up in a duty-oriented society.
I grew up in rich person world where,

Speaker 5 you know,

Speaker 5 but so this is something that I have come to believe more than I used to believe. But you do have a duty.
You are here for a reason, all of us.

Speaker 5 And we're all acting in concert, either for good or for evil. And I think the lines are really, really clear.

Speaker 5 And as I said at the outset, I think the battle is a spiritual one, which is not to say there aren't like material consequences or it's not flesh and blood people, they are, but all of us are being acted on at all times by forces that we can't see.

Speaker 5 It's a fact. I know that.
I've seen it a lot.

Speaker 5 And how do we know the difference? Well, it's hard to tell sometimes. And I have been lured by evil a million times, and it will happen again.

Speaker 5 But one of the ways we know is by the way people behave. And good,

Speaker 5 God,

Speaker 5 is characterized by love and acceptance and concern and empathy, period.

Speaker 5 And his opponents are characterized by hate.

Speaker 5 And so when we allow ourselves to get lured into hating, we are serving the people we oppose.

Speaker 5 Evil becomes stronger with hate. And I have learned this from watching really carefully and been involved in a lot of battles, rhetorical battles in my life.
And I have noticed that the goal

Speaker 5 of people serving evil is to make you a hater.

Speaker 5 They call you what they want you to be. And as someone who has been called many names over many years and been confused by, because I'm very literal, like I'm actually not a racist.

Speaker 5 Actually, I'm not a racist. And if I was, I would just admit it, but I'm not.
I've said that like a thousand times. Nobody cares.
They keep calling you it. So why do they call you that?

Speaker 5 Because they think you are? Kind of obvious that I'm actually not. And they know that.
No.

Speaker 5 Because they want you to become that. That's what they want you to be.
You're a Nazi. And I'm like, a Nazi?

Speaker 5 No. Very anti-Nazi, actually.
Why are they saying that about me? Why not just note the obvious about me? You're, well, self-indulgent or overweight or whatever, the things I really am.

Speaker 5 Why not criticize me on the basis of like my obvious faults, reality?

Speaker 5 I mean, that's what I do. And you're trying to needle someone.
You're like, oh, you're, and it's true. And that makes, you know, you call the fat girl fat.

Speaker 5 why are they calling me something i'm not and i'm obviously not because they want me to become that now why would people who claim to hate nazis want you to become a nazi that doesn't make any sense because it's spiritual principle

Speaker 5 hate makes evil stronger they want to destroy you by turning your heart dark That is the truth. And they feed on that.
It makes them strong when you hate them. This is not a political principle.

Speaker 5 This is a spiritual principle. And I have seen it in action so many times that I've become totally convicted of it.
I mean, I've lived this.

Speaker 5 And so I have resolved, I don't care what people who disagree with me do to me. I don't care.
I'm not going to hate them.

Speaker 5 Partly because I despise them so much, I refuse to hate them.

Speaker 5 Because,

Speaker 5 no, I'm half joking, but no, it's like I disagree so much that I'm not going to give you what you want,

Speaker 5 which is

Speaker 5 for me to make you the center of my world by hating you. I'm not going to do that.
And I'm not going to give you the spiritual power that comes from hate because I see what happens. I have seen it.

Speaker 5 I have literally been, the only thing I've done in my life is watch things. I've watched a lot of things in a lot of different places around the world.

Speaker 5 And I haven't learned that much, but a few things I've learned. And one is

Speaker 5 when evil convinces you to hate it, evil becomes stronger. And the only kryptonite, the only thing you can employ to make it less strong is love and its many cousins.

Speaker 5 Amusement, cheerfulness, laughing in the face of evil diminishes evil. So you're never going to get me to play that game.
Nazi, no, you're the Nazi. Fuck you!

Speaker 5 Never doing that. I'm never going to do that, both for my own sake and because that's the path to defeat.

Speaker 5 Does that make sense?

Speaker 6 Yeah, it does make sense. I mean, it does.
Makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 6 It's been a very weird journey for me.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you think?

Speaker 5 Don't you love that, though? Like,

Speaker 5 would a teenage you have guessed where you'd be now?

Speaker 6 Five years ago, I would have wanted to.

Speaker 5 Be a

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 6 But, you know, I don't, you know, I've been

Speaker 6 thankful. I'm also sad.
And

Speaker 6 I've never been this close to government ever. I mean, I worked in government, but you know, it was very, it was very compartmentalized

Speaker 6 and very focused on, you know, certain aspects. So I didn't have time to like,

Speaker 6 or access. Everybody thinks, oh, you got all this.
Access. You don't have any fucking access.

Speaker 5 Of course not.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 after doing this and a lot of these interviews, and

Speaker 6 dude, it's just so fucking dark, man.

Speaker 5 It's, it's,

Speaker 6 I don't know. It makes me wonder, like,

Speaker 6 are we here for a bigger purpose or is our purpose just to, you know, you said lead by sacrifice. I think lead by example.
Just set the fucking good example, you know, and just be a good person. And

Speaker 6 what is it? Attraction works a lot better than promotion.

Speaker 6 Definitely. And that's what my wife tells me.

Speaker 5 But there's a cost to that. That's what I would say the main thing that I have learned having been around, you know, the same world that I'm around now, I've been around since I was a child.

Speaker 5 And it slowly dawned on me how rotten it was. And so the main

Speaker 5 pitfall for me is being shocked by everything. I'm like, I can't believe how bad this is.
I can't believe how corrupt this institution is, these people are. I can't believe how dark it is.

Speaker 5 I must say that a hundred times. I can't believe it.

Speaker 5 And then occasionally I'll hear myself and I'll be like, you become the, I can't believe it guy?

Speaker 5 Really? Are you shocked again? Like, how many times, this is Lucy in the football. Like, how often are you going to be shocked by what you already know?

Speaker 5 by what you've stated out loud a thousand times.

Speaker 5 So if I keep being, if you keep doing the same thing to me and i keep refusing to believe you're going to do it and if i find myself shocked every time when you do do it who's the asshole i don't know i mean i think when you say it you know what i mean that you you like when you say i can't believe i think that

Speaker 6 i think the reason that that happens is there's still a glimmer of hope in your mind that it actually is not as bad as it appears to be of course it is you know and then every time you go down the rabbit hole more and more and more you dropped atom bombs on civilians and celebrated it oh it was so important we do that.

Speaker 5 Really? To incinerate a bunch of kids? Like, if you say it's important to beat the Imperial Japanese Army or replace the government with

Speaker 5 a friendly government, of course, of course. But if you're celebrating the incineration of children, then you're evil.
And all of us were, including me.

Speaker 5 So like, it's just important to recognize that and just be like, wow, we made a huge mistake.

Speaker 5 But people who refuse to acknowledge the mistake and continue to behave like that was a virtue are serving evil. That's just what it is.
Like Like that's the whole project is like,

Speaker 5 and they'll employ any lie to get you not to, you hate the United States. I hate the United States.
I don't think I do. No, give my life for the country in a second.

Speaker 5 I feel like we're actually in the process of doing that, giving over things that we love because we care about this land and its people because

Speaker 5 this is where we're from. You're not going to get me off the track, but you're also not going to get me to lie.
So what happens if you decide I'm just going to tell the truth?

Speaker 5 You have to tell the whole truth, but everything all the time. You don't.
You're not required to do that. But I'm not going to lie.
I'm just going to, I'm just going to tell the truth.

Speaker 5 We are definitely going to get killed if you keep doing that because

Speaker 5 whether it's physically or in some way, you are going to suffer. And that's the whole story.
That's a story of Jesus. That's a story of his disciples, almost every one of, maybe every one of whom was.

Speaker 5 murdered in the end. Why? Because they were hurting people or stealing from the poor.
No, because they were telling the truth. So we already know that.
So I don't know why I,

Speaker 5 every single time,

Speaker 5 you know, I get attacked or I see people unfairly attacked for doing the right thing and telling the truth. And every single time I'm like, I can't, this is shocking.
It's like, really?

Speaker 5 I guess I didn't really believe anything I said because there's nothing shocking about it. It's the most predictable.

Speaker 5 I remember going on Fox and writing the script and something, I can't even remember, could be anything, but I was like, It's kind of weird that all the people who lied are getting presidential medals of freedom and consulting contracts at BlackRock, and all the people who told the truth are headed to jail.

Speaker 5 We're punishing the honest. I remember being like, totally out.
I mean, this was like 10 years ago I said this.

Speaker 5 And yet every single time I've seen it in the subsequent decade, I've been every bit as shocked. And I just think, no, it's time to acknowledge.
what's totally real. Charlie Kirk got murdered.

Speaker 5 No one was more shocked than I was. He and I had just talked about the possibility of me getting murdered.
Oh, I'm not worried about that. I said, and then he gets murdered.

Speaker 5 And I was so shocked and, and of course, upset, upset because of him specifically dying, but shocked that someone could get killed who didn't do anything wrong. He just told the truth.

Speaker 5 And he was increasingly telling more of the truth, which is exactly why he was murdered, obviously. But I remember being shocked at that.
I was like, no, no, no. And I talked to our staff about it.

Speaker 5 And we've had some real drama in our lives. They were totally shocked by it.
And similar, you know, people trying to kill you.

Speaker 5 What, what did, and I remember finally concluding and saying to them, and they agreed, it's like, what did you think this was? That's what this is. That's what our lives are.

Speaker 5 That's what everyone's life is.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 we've gotten to the point where you can't opt out.

Speaker 5 You can't just say, I'm going to my fishing camp with the Spaniels. I tried.

Speaker 5 There is no opting out.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 anyway, and people can reach different conclusions about what their role is. And I think everyone has a different role.
Not everyone has the same role at all.

Speaker 5 Not everyone has the same destiny or mission, but we're all

Speaker 5 going to have to face that choice because it's not up to us. That's the nature of life.

Speaker 5 So I'm never, I don't care what happens. I am resolving, I'm not going to be shocked by it.

Speaker 5 And the extent to which you're shocked is the extent to which you you didn't really believe what you were saying before.

Speaker 5 And now, finally, after all these years at 56, I really believe that what we're seeing is what we always thought we would see.

Speaker 5 Does that make sense?

Speaker 6 It does. It does make sense.
You can't shirk it.

Speaker 5 You've been in it for a lot longer.

Speaker 6 You've been in it for a long time. You've been close.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but I didn't see it. I mean, and I've been so attacked.
Like, how could you have not known that this was, this person was doing this? Or my own family, even especially.

Speaker 5 you're lying you can it's like i don't know what to tell you the human mind is amazing the number of things i mean i

Speaker 5 i've smoked a lot of cigarettes and thought to myself this is bad for you that's bullshit

Speaker 5 whatever you know and like we have the capacity for self-deception that really is without parallel like it's incredible what we can ignore

Speaker 5 And I've done my share for sure, but and I'm not being defensive about it. I just think that's how people are.
It's certainly how I am.

Speaker 5 I'm very good at lying to myself, but especially about people I like and about myself. And, you know, we're just good at deceiving ourselves.
But once I'd be, it's only been in the last 10 years.

Speaker 5 I was like, wow, I can't believe that all this stuff was, I can't believe it. All this stuff is going on.
And then I'm transitioning into the next phase, which is, it's okay. We were promised this.

Speaker 5 We're getting it. I'm so grateful really to be living in a time where I think there's less self-deception.

Speaker 5 I think people people are being forced to acknowledge, not hysterical, but being forced to think about, you know, like, why am I here? And what is this? And what do I care about?

Speaker 5 What do I actually believe as distinct from what do I profess? They're not the same.

Speaker 5 And I think there's like amazing clarity. And there's, of course, a great sorting going on,

Speaker 5 which you and I have talked about off camera for sure, maybe on camera, but the beauty of, you know, you lose so many friends. I've lost, you know, most of my friends.

Speaker 5 But the ones I've I've kept are real friends and they're just people I respect immensely. And then I've made all these new relationships.
Like I pride myself in having no new friendships.

Speaker 5 Like I have no new friendships, you know. I married my high school girlfriend.
Like I'm very much old school that way, the most.

Speaker 5 But it's also true that in the past five or 10 years, I've met all these people I trust, care about, listen to, whose opinions I really listen to and that affect me.

Speaker 5 I allow their opinions to affect me, which is the sign of

Speaker 5 real real friendship. You know, I let you critique me and I'll hear it.
And I have a bunch of people I feel that way about.

Speaker 5 How great is that? So I lost a lot of, you know, acquaintanceships and I gained some real friendships. How's that not a massive win?

Speaker 6 It is a massive win. That's awesome.
Do you feel that?

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 5 You will. I think you will.

Speaker 5 Your problem is this is so fast.

Speaker 6 I'm extremely guarded. I've been fucked over a lot.
Yep. I've been lied to a lot.
And it's really, really, really fucking hard to gain my trust.

Speaker 5 I get it. I am.
I get it. I get it.
But the trajectory of your life has been so radical and abrupt.

Speaker 5 Like go from the height of one world, you know, like military, you got to the hype, obviously, the most famous part of the military, succeed in that. And then you completely change careers.

Speaker 5 Like it couldn't be more different from what you did before. And then out of nowhere, you become really successful in that.
So that's like, that's a big, very abrupt change.

Speaker 5 And I, no matter how resilient you are,

Speaker 5 there are going to be some bumps on that road because that's just, it's just too different, right?

Speaker 5 Like if I became like a super successful business guy

Speaker 5 or

Speaker 5 figure skater tomorrow. That would kind of be like,

Speaker 5 you know what I mean? Like all of a sudden, I'm competing in the Olympics for figure skating and I win the gold medal. Like, that would be very hard for me.

Speaker 6 Oh, shit. I would actually love to see that.

Speaker 6 We might have to create an AI video review.

Speaker 5 But that is kind of like your life.

Speaker 5 You can't see it clearly because you're living it, but from the outside, it's obvious. Like, what?

Speaker 5 You actually succeeded in this new business? What are the odds of that?

Speaker 6 I don't know. Slim to none.

Speaker 5 More closer to none, I would say. Yeah.

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Speaker 6 You know what really bothers me is just

Speaker 6 before I dug into this, it's like there's some things that are fucked up. We're going to expose it.
We're going to make some changes. And then the deeper you get in and the more you look around,

Speaker 6 everything's fucked up. It's like,

Speaker 6 it's like,

Speaker 6 it's like what we were talking about on your show. Everything is a lie.

Speaker 6 And then, I mean, I mean, we manufacture fake fucking heroes in the military that even I believed went through what they said went through. You know what I mean? And

Speaker 6 only to find out

Speaker 6 like 20 fucking years later, like, holy shit, this entire fucking story is a lie. This is a fucking lie.

Speaker 6 And that motherfucker is running around in a, I mean, I can't even imagine the prison that people live in, living a lot.

Speaker 6 Everything that you're known for is a fucking lie. Everything that people come up to you for and praise you about is a fucking lie.

Speaker 5 Your awards are lies.

Speaker 6 Everything is a fucking lie. You are, you are a.

Speaker 6 And this is a lot. There's a lot of these people walking around and I just know a handful of them.

Speaker 6 And then you look at the politics, and you look, I mean, look at look at this shit, the Epstein files. It's a hoax.
It's a hoax.

Speaker 6 It's a national security threat. They're fake.
This is like, what the fuck, man? The American people are fucking screaming at you, screaming that they want this shit released.

Speaker 6 Congress, I don't even know the name. What is it? Like, I can't remember.
How many people are in Congress?

Speaker 5 400 and 535 Senate plus House. 435 in the House.

Speaker 6 Everybody except one person. Yep.
I don't know. Who Who is the one person?

Speaker 5 Some guy. Yeah.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 and so, like, back, you know, back to earlier, like, we want to make an impact. We want to tell the truth.
We want to, you know, do these.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 we had a big influence in the last election. Was that was seemed like a great thing

Speaker 6 at a time. At the time, it felt great.
Did it, was that a good thing?

Speaker 6 You know, you can't. Now we got a guy who's, oh, America first, all this other fucking bullshit.
And

Speaker 6 everybody, everybody is screaming, release these fucking files. We want to know what is going on.
We want to know.

Speaker 5 What would we find out if they were all released? Anything we didn't know?

Speaker 6 I honestly have no idea. Is it the end of the fucking country? Like,

Speaker 6 is it really that bad? C.S.

Speaker 5 Lewis has this.

Speaker 5 Well, I have tons of opinions on the subject. I don't have

Speaker 5 you know concrete proof I of course I think I know but C.S. Lewis has this I think it was C.S.

Speaker 5 Lewis has this essay in which he says people debate you know was Jesus really God or whatever if Jesus came back to earth tomorrow and held a press conference

Speaker 5 like a week later people would be talking about something else it's like

Speaker 5 We actually know what's true.

Speaker 5 We know what's true in the way that dogs know what's true. You can't reason with the dog.
The dog can smell it and he sticks with his opinion because he has no other input.

Speaker 5 If you hate a dog, you can't talk your way out of it. The dog knows you hate the dog because dogs have unerring instincts and so do we.

Speaker 5 And so of course we know exactly what the Epstein story is about.

Speaker 5 It's about the deep corruption of global leadership, of course. And you can say it's about Israel.
It's about the CIA. Well, it's about, is there a distinction really?

Speaker 5 Not just between Israel and, you know, Mossad and CIA, but about the British government or really kind of any government or any

Speaker 5 Bill Gates or Leon Black. It's all kind of varieties of the same thing.
It's corrupt leadership that is acting on its own behalf against the interests of the people they lead.

Speaker 5 It's the oldest story there is. It's the Pharisees.

Speaker 5 And if we're honest, we already know that.

Speaker 5 So, I mean, I, of course, I'm completely for disclosure of everything, but I don't lie to myself and say that disclosure would change human nature because it won't.

Speaker 5 And people have an opportunity to exploit others, generally will.

Speaker 5 And the rest of us need to fight daily against that, not because we're going to win in the short term, but because it is our duty

Speaker 5 and to serve what's good and true, period, even if we're killed doing it. So

Speaker 5 I don't know. I mean, I won't stop pushing for disclosure.
I really believe that. Trust is built on honesty.
It's not built on lies ever.

Speaker 6 You know, you say, you know,

Speaker 6 does it change?

Speaker 6 I can't remember your exact verbiage, but you know, we were talking about, you know, when this gets exposed, does it change anything? No,

Speaker 6 this is the nature of man. This is what happens.

Speaker 5 But we already know the answer.

Speaker 6 Men need to be reset.

Speaker 6 And men have not been fucking reset, not in this country for a long time. Well, that's a long time.

Speaker 5 That's coming whether we want it or not. We don't want it, but it's coming.
And all this shit about women don't need men.

Speaker 5 You've obviously seen chaos in a society, right? Like actual chaos. People just like shoot into buildings and no one arrests them.
You spent your life around that stuff.

Speaker 5 Those societies don't ask questions like, what are men for?

Speaker 5 You know what I mean? Right. And we're, of course, moving closer to that.

Speaker 5 And all of this, all of our silliest manifestations, you know, the trans craziness or feminism or other just revolts against nature are only possible. because we live in this nerf world of affluence.

Speaker 5 But as that starts to change, and it is changing, then we, the upside of that, we're going to get poorer and society will become more dangerous, but we'll also be a little more rooted in reality in the same way that rich people are insufferable, not all, but a lot of rich people are insufferable because

Speaker 5 they're detached from reality, from nature, from God, from like the things that are real.

Speaker 5 And they convince themselves because they can fly from point to point without going through TSA that they have infinite power and they don't. And that's why they're so hard to have dinner with.
But

Speaker 5 a normal society doesn't have these problems. It has all kinds of other problems, but doesn't have the American problems of like,

Speaker 5 you know, I'll just, you know, I'm a 40-year-old unmarried citibank executive. I'll just get a surrogate.
It's like, okay. Or the suicide rate.
There's not a lot of suicide

Speaker 5 in, you know, impoverished countries. Cause like the mission is really clear.
Eat.

Speaker 5 You know, there's not a lot of crisis of meaning in Burundi.

Speaker 6 You know what I mean? It's a fight for the day.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's a fight for the day. Well, it's a trade-off.
I mean, I would much rather live in a DoorDash society because I like comfort and ease and everything, but it is a trade-off.

Speaker 5 And you trade comfort for meaning. That's just kind of what we've done.
And we shouldn't be surprised. Again, we shouldn't be surprised by it.

Speaker 5 What do you think happens, honestly?

Speaker 6 If this, do you, one, do you think this is actually going to, is this going to come out? Yep. Or is this, has it all been shredded? I mean, you know, marketing

Speaker 5 this now. Of course.
I I mean, we don't have the JFK files.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 so then you ask, why don't we?

Speaker 5 Who is being protected here? There are no living stakeholders in that story. There's no living participant

Speaker 5 in that murder conspiracy. It was a conspiracy.
We know that. So who were the participants in that conspiracy? Well, no one's still alive.

Speaker 5 So who could we possibly be protecting by not releasing all those files? And that's a pretty short list of suspects. So I think we kind of know what that is, at least in part.

Speaker 5 I don't know the details. I know some, but that's, I think it's pretty obvious.
Same with Epstein.

Speaker 5 It's pretty clear who some of the players were. They were governments, the U.S.
government involved, British government involved, Israeli government involved, at various levels.

Speaker 5 The guy lived a fairly long life. He died in his mid-60s.

Speaker 5 He was pretty active.

Speaker 5 in

Speaker 5 government work, arms trading, for example, from a young age, from his late 20s i think when he left bear stearns he got into that business with robert maxwell you don't trade arms by yourself you do it on behalf of governments and with the assistance of governments you obviously been around this you know so from that age from say 30 to what 65 ish when he died so 35 years he's intersecting with governments it's and it's not just the israelis i mean The Israelis were definitely involved.

Speaker 5 Ehud Barak is living at his house.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 5 And we have a lot of his emails that prove that.

Speaker 5 And I'm not defending the Israeli government, which is hard to defend, but I'm just telling, trying to tell the truth, which is it's not just the Israelis. Okay.
It's us. It's the British, the French.

Speaker 5 It's the usual players, the Intel services that matter in the West and probably others. So that's who's being protected, of course, and then all kinds of other pawns.

Speaker 5 And so I think one of the main takeaways from that story, about which I know a lot, but not everything,

Speaker 5 is that the leaders that we believe are leaders, and people are starting to get this, like our elected officials, oh, they have so much power, senator so-and-so, president, what's his name?

Speaker 5 You know, like these are the people running our society are not the people running our society. Of course, they themselves are subject to enormous pressures from,

Speaker 5 you know, other people and coalitions of people and forces and interests. And like, that's what they're, and the closer you get to them, the more time you spend with the people who are in charge,

Speaker 5 the more you realize they're not really in charge or they're only semi-in charge how how does how does it happen i am really i'm very i mean you know in it how does it happen do they

Speaker 6 we talked about this a little bit at breakfast

Speaker 6 i don't think everything is as

Speaker 6 transactional as it may seem oh no i think that

Speaker 6 this is from my own experience and i have and i don't believe i've fallen into any yet but i think i've i have come close

Speaker 6 i think they they they they set traps and that and that doesn't mean there's a hooker in the fucking hotel room that you walk into oh there is oh you know what i mean there is something for somebody that fucking weak you'd have to you know that would have been stupid by the way

Speaker 6 but and i'm sure there's plenty of people out there that are that fucking stupid

Speaker 5 i'm gonna look up tranny porn on u porn oh that's not controlled by a foreign intel service. Oh, it is.

Speaker 6 It is.

Speaker 5 That actually is true.

Speaker 6 So,

Speaker 5 yeah, I mean, there are a million ways that your weaknesses expose you to influence, for sure.

Speaker 6 I think they

Speaker 6 can be very giving.

Speaker 6 And it does.

Speaker 6 I think they can be very giving, and it appears that you're being led into a group.

Speaker 6 And then...

Speaker 5 Oh, I'm watching that right now with someone. Yes.

Speaker 6 And then you're fucking done. Of course.
But not even realizing it until you're in.

Speaker 5 Oh, yes.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 I think I've come close, and I always like, if I even get a fucking inkling of that happening, I'm like, no, done, not going, not

Speaker 6 getting on the jail. That's true to that.
Going there, not going there, not doing it. Like,

Speaker 6 I'm my own fucking person, and I don't.

Speaker 6 What are you going to give me? Money? I've got that.

Speaker 5 How about when you're not all that's cracked up to me? You don't even know what's happening. I mean, how many plots have I been involved in unwittingly? I don't even know the answer, but a lot, a lot.

Speaker 5 I can think of a bunch of them

Speaker 5 where you have someone like who you work for being like, you know, we should really take a look at this. This guy's bad.
Let's, you know,

Speaker 5 okay.

Speaker 5 You know, when I was young living in Washington, I was, I was used all the time and had no idea. I literally had no, it never even occurred to me.

Speaker 5 And a a lot of my resentment as a middle-aged man comes from that. And I think a lot about it.

Speaker 5 And I'm not going to blame the people who did it because that's who they are. But it definitely participated in a lot of stuff without my knowledge that was much

Speaker 5 more strategic than I ever guessed. You're sitting in a meeting, you know, we should really do this.
Okay, I'll do it.

Speaker 5 And you wind up doing it. And then ultimately it became inconsistent with my instincts and my conscience.
And I was like, ah, this is bad. I'm not quite sure how.

Speaker 5 But then you look back and you're like, oh my gosh. And now, of course, my whole life is,

Speaker 5 you know, I don't understand anything really. But you see glimpses of a lot of different things every single day.
Well, you should go here and talk to so-and-so. And like, what is this exactly?

Speaker 5 And if you're busy, you don't ask yourself enough, what is this?

Speaker 5 I mean, I think that happens to me every single day because my text is public. So everyone has my text.
Everybody has my text. I've had the same number for 30 years.
I'm not changing it.

Speaker 5 I just refuse. I'm not afraid of people and I'm not going to change my number.
And so I get hundreds and hundreds of texts every day. Some from people I know, most from people I do know.
And,

Speaker 5 you know, some of them are totally straightforward and people I trust and a lot of them aren't. And sometimes I don't care what plot you're hatching.

Speaker 5 I want to do this thing because I have my own agenda, which is to shed light on something that isn't well known enough. This is my perspective and I'm going to do it.
I don't care.

Speaker 5 whether it fits into your plans or not. I'm doing it.

Speaker 5 I've done a lot of interviews, like a lot of interviews and traveled to a lot of countries with that in mind. But yeah, there are tons of people trying to suborn you and make you part of their agenda.

Speaker 5 And mostly it's not blackmail. I've never been blackmailed in my life.
No one's ever suggested that. I'm not,

Speaker 5 I'm not banging the hooker in my room. Sorry, I don't drink.
I mean, it's like kind of hard to blackmail me.

Speaker 5 I like to think it's impossible. Maybe they could find a way, but that's not how it happens for most people.

Speaker 5 But then there's another element, which I'm thinking a lot about, which I don't really understand, but I know is real, where people fall under a kind of spell.

Speaker 5 And people you know to be rational, Mike Huckabee is one of them. We're talking this at breakfast because I'm obsessed with it, because I know Mike Huckabee so well.

Speaker 5 I was at the newspaper in Arkansas over 30 years ago, and I knew him then. I went up at Fox News with him decades later.
I worked with him. I knew him then.
I always liked Mike Huckabee.

Speaker 5 I like him now.

Speaker 5 Mike Huckabee is not a bad person. He's very money-oriented, which is a weakness for anybody, of course.

Speaker 5 So there's that, but that's not unusual. He's not a bad person at all.
Mike Huckabee's a nice man. But Mike Huckabee has participated in things that are just objectively evil, in my opinion.

Speaker 5 And how did that happen? Because Mike Huckabee woke up and decided he wanted to do something evil? No, I know Mike Huckabee. He doesn't feel that way at all.
He's a decent man.

Speaker 5 I watch Huckabee, and because I do know him, I marvel at it. He has fallen under some sort of spell.
I do think it's supernatural. I know a number of people like that.

Speaker 5 I'm calling him out by name because he's been involved in something recently that's like so shocking to me

Speaker 5 that I can't even believe he participated in something like that.

Speaker 6 He said we wouldn't be shocked anymore.

Speaker 5 Exactly. Exactly.
We wouldn't be shocked anymore. So everything that I have learned comes from like sitting in my sauna trying to figure out obvious things.
Complex things are very easy to understand.

Speaker 5 Simple things right in front of your face are the great mysteries.

Speaker 5 And when you know people and you have a fairly good sense of their character and their,

Speaker 5 you know, what, you know, what they're, the kind of things they'd be willing to do, what their goals are, I think my huckabee's goal is to spread the gospel of Jesus. And I think that about him.
I do.

Speaker 5 I think a lot of my huckabee. How could a man like that? wind up doing the things that he's been doing.
Not creepy personal things, nothing like that, but like

Speaker 5 promoting things that are like obviously evil, like the murder of kids. Like how could you do that?

Speaker 5 Well, he couldn't do that. He would never do that.
He's doing it because he is under some kind of spell. He has no idea he's doing it.

Speaker 5 And I just explained a time in my life where I was under a kind of spell. It never even occurred to me.

Speaker 5 I worked for Bill Crystal at the time that Bill Crystal, my editor, my boss, who gave me this job, is like hilarious in meetings, that he could really be

Speaker 5 working tirelessly on an agenda that was like

Speaker 5 totally anti-Christian. How could that ever be? That what Bill Crystal really hates

Speaker 5 is Christianity. That never occurred to me.

Speaker 5 And he wanted to stamp out nationalism and,

Speaker 5 you know, public displays of loyalty to Jesus. Like, he hated that.
I did not get that at all. It never occurred, never entered my brain one time.
So I was under a spell myself.

Speaker 5 So I'm not even judging. I'm just saying people fall into this

Speaker 5 way of thinking that is so clear to me, influenced by supernatural forces, where they are blinded.

Speaker 5 And the entire Bible from beginning to end is the story of people who can't see things right in front of them. They just can't.
It's happening right there. So all this evidence, it's overwhelming.

Speaker 5 They can touch it, smell it, feel it, but they cannot acknowledge its reality.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 so anyway, that's part of it. People are engaged in these projects that are just like totally anti-human, and they think they're on the right side.
They really believe it. So

Speaker 5 I would just say, like, the analysis

Speaker 5 that I read on the internet, I'll try to not read the internet, but you know, you read it and you're like, people of good faith are like, wow, that person's clearly getting a payoff.

Speaker 5 you know they've got videotape of him banging a dog or whatever they come over these do you know what i mean they're compromised.

Speaker 5 And I think because I know so many of the people they're talking about, I'm like, yeah, and some, in some, Lindsey Graham, like, okay, I believe that. Like, what is that?

Speaker 5 But there are a million other people who I'm like, I don't think there's videotape of them doing anything wrong. I don't think they're taking money for this.

Speaker 5 I think they really believe they're doing the right thing. And that's more upsetting to me because it's more subtle.
And it's more profound than just blackmail.

Speaker 6 Does that make sense? It does make sense.

Speaker 5 And looking back on your life,

Speaker 5 I mean, it's hard for any of us to look back on our lives without feeling very complicated feelings.

Speaker 5 But do you detect any moments where you were involved in something and you never even paused to ask, what is this?

Speaker 5 Why am I participating in this? It never even dawned on you.

Speaker 6 I mean, I just, I think

Speaker 6 you just have to.

Speaker 5 I mean,

Speaker 6 when I started doing this, it just

Speaker 5 there's all kinds of,

Speaker 6 I've got all kinds of incriminating shit out there.

Speaker 5 Tons of it. Tons of it.

Speaker 6 You know, but I did,

Speaker 6 and I'm aware of it. And I know it was fucked up that what I did.
But, you know, I'm not.

Speaker 5 But did you know it at the time?

Speaker 6 Reconciliation. Yeah, I knew it was fucked up at the time.
Not all of it, but yeah, the majority of it. Like, I mean, it didn't, I didn't, I didn't fall into any honeypots.

Speaker 5 I didn't need a honeypot.

Speaker 5 That's the point. That's great to do it again, but it's too obvious.
They're never going to get you with the Russian hooker because everyone's on guard against the Russian hooker.

Speaker 6 They didn't need to do anything to get me to fall into anything because I was already doing it all. And there's this thing, you know, called reconciliation, confession, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 6 You know, you come clean

Speaker 6 and you fucking own it. You know, Jocko calls it extreme ownership, right? But I mean, it's just, it's taking ownership of your fuck-ups and like you cannot be afraid of that and there's i don't

Speaker 6 i tend to think that people are very forgiving and so i don't know you know when we talk about shit like the epstein and all of this stuff right like when we talk about all of these things and all of the the blackmail and stuff it's like just

Speaker 6 come clean man just

Speaker 6 I've made this organization

Speaker 5 of the times. Everyone wants to believe in our institutions.

Speaker 5 I certainly feel that way as disappointed and angry as I am about the failure of every institution. I really want to believe in the institutions.
You know, I really, really do. I mean that.

Speaker 5 And all it takes to restore a relationship with a person or an institution is honesty and repentance. That's it.
It's like not hard. People are so forgiving.
I totally agree with that.

Speaker 5 All of us want to forgive. There's nothing better than the prodigal son.
Like he's gone. Fuck that guy.
He took all the money and left. He's, you know, in whorehouses in Babylon.

Speaker 5 And then, but now he's here. It's all forgiven.
We're so excited for you. We're throwing a huge party for you.
All of us feel that way.

Speaker 5 And so, I don't think it's hard,

Speaker 5 or it's hard, but it's not complicated. And it's so worth it to say, I was completely wrong.
I'll be wrong again. I'm going to try my best.
Maybe sometimes I won't try my best, but just be honest.

Speaker 5 I think that's liberation. That's the only liberation, actually.

Speaker 6 It's freeing.

Speaker 5 Yeah, what I mean, what other liberation is there?

Speaker 5 I just

Speaker 6 does voting matter anymore.

Speaker 5 I don't know.

Speaker 6 I'm just

Speaker 6 trying to use me so much. Like

Speaker 6 looking back,

Speaker 6 I don't we didn't really have much of a fucking option here, but I mean, we slowly thought.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 Nothing I voted for happened.

Speaker 5 What about you?

Speaker 6 Are you happy with anything?

Speaker 5 Oh, I'm happy with so much.

Speaker 6 It's going on.

Speaker 5 It's going on.

Speaker 5 No, it's just a nightmare of depravity and corruption in general in the world, but what you expect.

Speaker 5 I am so struck by,

Speaker 5 you know, I'm not a TV watch, but there's the only really famous seinfeld episode is opposite day

Speaker 5 you're probably in the jungle or doing something bad somewhere you missed this but um

Speaker 5 there's this famous episode of the sitcom seinfeld where one of the characters decides to do everything the opposite that day and gets like results he didn't expect it works and i just feel like that is the lesson of everything.

Speaker 5 That's the lesson of life. That's the beatitudes.

Speaker 5 The first will be last. The meek shall inherit the earth.
What's that? It's the opposite of what you think.

Speaker 5 Jesus says, I'm going to build my church on this rock, Peter, who's just betrayed him three times to a girl, a rock? That's like jello. It's the opposite.

Speaker 5 If you're going to build a church, you build it on the strongest man, he builds it on the weakest man.

Speaker 5 And everything in our life points to the same truth. It's the opposite of what you expect every freaking time.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 so, again, back to the same theme. No, I'm not shocked,

Speaker 5 but

Speaker 5 it

Speaker 5 really makes me happy to know the only thing that matters is the words you speak and that they're true. That's the only thing that changes history ever.

Speaker 5 You think about the number of wars, some of which you've participated in directly over the past 25 years. How many have like made things better or changed anything? I'm only doing the math at zero.

Speaker 5 How many wars actually do it? The biggest war in human history, 1914 to 1918, set the stage for the even bigger war in history. So it's like,

Speaker 5 but what does make things better, telling the truth.

Speaker 5 In the end, when everything is gone, when your civilization has been leveled, and archaeologists are trying to piece together, you know, what it was all about,

Speaker 5 the only things that remain are the words that you spoke. And they're the things that change people.

Speaker 5 And this is like an ancient concept. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

Speaker 5 That's, you know, ancient cultures understood that an idea articulated emerges from the mouth of the speaker and becomes a separate living thing and lives there forever.

Speaker 5 And anyone who's argued with his wife knows that that's true.

Speaker 5 The second you say something harsh, especially if it's true, it can't be taken back and it hangs there in the kitchen over you, overshadowing everything.

Speaker 5 So, and or this last argument I'll make,

Speaker 5 the way that I understand the world is in reverse, almost like an x-ray.

Speaker 5 So I look at the people who I don't respect, who I believe have totalitarian impulses, and I try to assess what's true by what their priorities are.

Speaker 5 So your enemies are the people who want to control you and crush you and destroy your family and your nation, obviously.

Speaker 5 What do they want above all? They want to control what you say.

Speaker 5 They want to control what you say. What's the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights, the freedom of speech? What you say matters more than anything.

Speaker 5 Your words articulated out loud are living things, and they're more powerful than you are, and they live beyond you. Your grave will go unvisited.

Speaker 5 Your words will continue to reverberate through the universe. I really believe that.
I know that that's true. And that's the whole story of history.

Speaker 5 There are no living ancient Hebrews. We know a lot about what they thought because they wrote it down.
Their words have lived for 3,000 years. So

Speaker 5 what we say is the most important thing about us.

Speaker 5 And if we can force ourselves to tell the truth, we will change things. And by things, I mean people and their attitudes, their beliefs, their hearts.
And that's all we can do. That's all we can do.

Speaker 5 And I would say if we make a little extra money on the side, we should build a fishing camp in the woods because I think that's really important.

Speaker 5 But it's not as important as, I mean, like, yeah, I do think that I have all kinds of sentimental attachments. I don't really care about things that much, but I care about nature.

Speaker 5 So, so, like, that is important, but, but it's not important in an ultimate sense. My fishing camp will be a strip mall someday, you know, or it'll be a lunar landscape someday.

Speaker 5 But your words will

Speaker 5 outlive you.

Speaker 6 I love that.

Speaker 5 I just think that's true. And I, no one has convinced me of that.
I've been convinced of that by watching.

Speaker 5 And really, I've been convinced of it by watching what the opponents of people and of civilization really care about. And the number one thing they care about is getting you to shut up.

Speaker 5 As long as you'll shut up, you can have whatever you want. And that really is the trade-off that our leaders make.
It's not by doing things, it's by not saying certain things.

Speaker 5 And the ones who refuse to be told what to say are destroyed or face the threat of destruction.

Speaker 5 And you know exactly who they are. Now, what have they done exactly?

Speaker 5 Does anyone care what the two or three truth tellers in our political system have done, what they voted for, what they're don't even knows. No one cares.
All they care about is what they say out loud.

Speaker 5 And the reason they care is because that's the most important thing.

Speaker 5 They know what's important. We don't.
We're totally sidetracked by this, that,

Speaker 5 baubles and fast-moving flashy objects, but they know what's important. The spoken word is the most important.

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Speaker 5 Anyway, so that makes me feel good. That makes me feel really, really good because I know what my mission is.

Speaker 5 And I feel like if you know what your mission is and you know what the stakes are and you're willing to accept them, and I should just say I'm in.

Speaker 5 such an unusual position because all my kids are grown and they're all thriving and I don't have any investors or debt. No one can control me.
I'm kind of happy with less. I'm not a money.

Speaker 5 I've never been a money person. I'm not bragging, but I never have been.
Ask anyone who knows me.

Speaker 5 And so they're really, the cost to me is so much lower than to a man with like four kids in private school. You're 35 and your wife's like, well, you're barely making it.

Speaker 5 You are subject to, and I have been in earlier in my life, subject to all kinds of control mechanisms. You don't even perceive, but you're so afraid of losing

Speaker 6 what you have.

Speaker 5 And you're really afraid of it because you have children at home.

Speaker 5 And having small children at home who are totally dependent on you, who you love more than your own life, that is a really, really scary time for every man. And I know that you're living it now.

Speaker 5 And I've lived it. My oldest is 31 years old next week.
I've lived it for 31 years, I know, but you get to a point where

Speaker 5 it's not such an imminent threat because your children have their own lives. And if you're blessed as I've been, they're doing great.
You love them and you want to see your grandchildren.

Speaker 5 There's so many things you want, but you don't need any of it. And your responsibility is gone.
I'm not responsible for educating someone and telling him the facts of life at dinner.

Speaker 5 You know what I mean? It's like that's all, I'm done.

Speaker 5 So I'm just in this incredibly privileged position where the stakes are just a lot lower for me. So I can see with greater clarity

Speaker 5 what am I doing? for the back nine.

Speaker 5 And I just have such a simple, simple understanding of that. Just tell the truth.
Don't be moved from the truth. You don't have to tell the whole truth.
You don't have to say everything.

Speaker 5 I know a lot of shit, or I think I know a lot of shit because that's my job. And a lot of it, I'm not sure it's true, or

Speaker 5 I don't know. Don't say everything, you know.
You don't have to. You don't have to tell people, oh, you're fat.

Speaker 5 You don't have that. Okay, it's probably true.
You don't have to say that. You're under no obligation to say that.
Your only obligation,

Speaker 5 don't ever lie. Don't allow people to make you lie.
Resolve, I'll die die first. Just telling you, the die for not going to do that.

Speaker 5 And I think that's your duty.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I don't know. Throughout this journey,

Speaker 6 in kids, especially kids, man, it's made me

Speaker 6 really try to start honing in on things that I

Speaker 6 can actually make an impact in.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 like we were talking about,

Speaker 6 there are things that you can make an impact in. And we have little nuggets here and there.
But, you know, I don't think fucking politics is for me.

Speaker 6 And I don't, I don't think it's not for me.

Speaker 5 Which is me either.

Speaker 6 It's not for me. I don't know to be in Lincoln.

Speaker 5 I don't even understand it. And I mean, you were off fighting wars.
I was covering the Congress and the White House and a million elections all around the country.

Speaker 5 I've been to every state, you know, every

Speaker 5 I know all the politicians personally. I still don't even understand the process.
And I'm not interested in it. I really am not.

Speaker 5 Some consultant called me yesterday to get me to interview someone and he's like, oh, you know, this is Congressional District 13.

Speaker 5 I don't even know what you're talking about. I just have so little interest in it.
You know,

Speaker 5 it's not interesting. And people who are really, really interested in it are damaged, I think.
In general, I don't want to generalize, but, you know, overall, not a group I want to have dinner with.

Speaker 6 What are you passionate about now? I mean,

Speaker 6 I'm looking for things that I can make an impact in.

Speaker 6 What is it?

Speaker 5 Like, what issues? issues? I mean, I'm super passionate about

Speaker 5 my family. My family is so big that it's like, it's, it's, it's literally, I could spend all day, every day involved in family stuff.
There's just so many people. And, you know, I'm the oldest male.

Speaker 5 And so it's just, you know, really involved, really very close, super close, cohesive family.

Speaker 5 Very, everyone's everyone's best friend. It's just so interesting.
And you can just like get involved and

Speaker 5 try to help in marginal ways or whatever, or just talk to people. So, I'm very interested in that.
I'm interested. I have more hobbies than any person's ever had, way too many.

Speaker 5 My son's like, you should take a bow hunting.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 5 Like, I need more obsessions. I don't think so.

Speaker 5 Too many rabbit holes already in my life. But what am I interested in my job? And

Speaker 6 I mean, what when you're talking about telling truth, when you're talking about, and the way I take that as exposing,

Speaker 6 you know, shining the light in the darkness.

Speaker 5 I'm interested in the

Speaker 5 elimination of white people.

Speaker 6 What do you mean by that?

Speaker 5 I mean,

Speaker 5 white people have been targeted for disappearance, and no one wants to say that because

Speaker 5 they've been bullied into noticing or talking about it because you're like a white supremacist. Well, I'm not a white supremacist.
I don't think whites are inherently superior to any other group.

Speaker 5 I don't judge how I feel about someone by his race. I never have, and I'm never going to.
It's against my religion and it's against my instinct. I believe in what people are like.

Speaker 5 But I travel a lot around the world and I'm not an expert on the world, but

Speaker 5 I know more about it than people who don't travel a lot. And I'm leaving this week again.

Speaker 5 And one thing that I have noticed, because it's impossible not to notice, is that majority white countries are becoming non-majority white.

Speaker 5 And that's a result of policies that are deliberate, that are not popular with the populations of those countries, and that people are discouraged from noticing in it.

Speaker 5 And some places they're arrested, like in Great Britain, where I'm going on Friday. So it's like, what is that? And it's not happening in one or two, but in every single one.

Speaker 5 And what's so interesting is because no one's been allowed to talk about it, the only people who talk about it are like crazy race theorists or, you know, prison inmates who are like, you know, whatever, caught up in being white or something.

Speaker 5 By the way, you didn't choose to be white. Okay.
It's nothing you did. You didn't choose to have your eye color, your height.
None of these things you can brag about because you didn't do them.

Speaker 5 They're an accident of your birth. So I've never agreed with any of that crap.
But because normal people have been bullied into not noticing,

Speaker 5 the only people who ever say anything about it are people who are like obsessed with it. But it is an incredible

Speaker 5 thing

Speaker 5 that every white country on the planet, except Russia, the one everyone hates, is on the road in very short order to become completely different from what it was 50 years ago

Speaker 5 in its population demographically different. Is that an accident? Well, of course, it's not an accident.

Speaker 5 It's the result of a bunch of different, it's a multi-pronged strategy, clearly. to make the populations of those countries hate themselves for how they were born and accept these changes.

Speaker 5 It's been systematic.

Speaker 5 What is that?

Speaker 5 I'm not, as I said, I'm not a white scrub. By the way, I would just admit it at this point.
Why do I care? I'm a white scrub. Okay.
I'm actually not. I disagree with that.

Speaker 5 Don't think that you should be

Speaker 5 obsessed with people's appearance, A, or the accident of their birth or their genetics. I just am opposed to all of that.

Speaker 5 Again, for the eighth time, Paul, the chief prosecutor, murderer of Christians, became the most important Christian once he met Jesus.

Speaker 5 So if you need more examples, I don't know what they could be, that people can totally change. There's nothing with how you're born.
It's what you become.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 that's my deepest belief. So if I sound defensive, it's because we have all been trained to ignore this amazing thing that's never happened before in history, where one group of people

Speaker 5 is being destroyed and, of course, have internalized that and are now

Speaker 5 enthusiastically participating in their own destruction and the death of an entire group of people.

Speaker 5 And it really is, like if you go to Great Britain, it's the whites who can't wait to kill themselves. It's in Canada, same thing.

Speaker 5 They have the MAIDS program, which is state-sponsored killing of its own citizens. Physician-assisted suicide.
No, it's the state encouraging people to kill themselves.

Speaker 5 And it's one of the leading causes of death in Canada is this MAIDS program.

Speaker 6 Are these the machines that these

Speaker 5 It could be machines.

Speaker 5 The state is licensed to kill its citizens. The citizen just goes in and said, I want to be killed, and they kill you.
And basically, for any reason, mental health problems, financial problems.

Speaker 5 A lot of poor people are just like, I feel like I'm a burden to the country. I want to go die, and the state will kill you.
It's one of the leading causes of death in Canada.

Speaker 5 So the numbers came out yesterday. Well, who's doing this? So Canada is about 65% white, something like that.
It's completely changed. Heavily, heavily South Asian

Speaker 5 and Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani,

Speaker 5 and lots of other peoples.

Speaker 6 You know, it's massive immigration, massive, massive immigration into Canada.

Speaker 5 But who's being killed by the state in Canada? It's like 97% legacy whites, literally.

Speaker 5 And what the hell is that? And of course, these are people who have been told and now believe that like they're a burden to society. It's selfish to have children.

Speaker 5 They've been totally brainwashed into mass suicide.

Speaker 5 And of course, none of this is affecting my family. We have the opposite views.
We're not proud to be white.

Speaker 5 We're not white because we chose to be white. We just happen to be born white.
So it's nothing to be proud of. It's just a fact.
On the other hand,

Speaker 5 targeting people on the basis of their race for destruction is the reason we say we hate the Nazis.

Speaker 5 And yet that's absolutely happening globally in every white country. Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain,

Speaker 5 Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England,

Speaker 5 United States, and Canada. That's an accident? It's not an accident at all.
And no one will say anything about it. And why wouldn't you say something? Like, what is that?

Speaker 5 If that, by the way, if that were happening

Speaker 5 in

Speaker 5 India, like, we got too many Indians here. A billion Indians? That's too many Indians.
We need more Africans here. So any one Indian, like, here's that, we can kill you because you're a burden.

Speaker 5 You just not have kids or take some SSRIs and just benzos and weed and just zone out until you die or whatever, but like you're bad.

Speaker 5 I would be like, that's the sickest thing I've ever seen. Like, why do we hate Indians? I kind of like Indians or whatever.
You would just be like,

Speaker 5 why would we want to do that to them? What did they do wrong?

Speaker 5 I mean, I would just think that. And that's happening to whites globally at such a speed.

Speaker 5 And no one is saying anything about it that I've decided because I just want to tell the truth about what I notice that I'm going to say something about it. I think it's totally wrong.

Speaker 5 I think it's totally evil.

Speaker 5 Again, it's exactly what we said we hated about the Nazis and we're participating in it and I'm going to keep saying that no matter what they say and they'll be like, oh, you're a white supremacist.

Speaker 5 I'm not.

Speaker 5 And I have a lot of theories about what this is and why.

Speaker 6 What is it? Why would they do it? Who is they?

Speaker 5 Every globalist, the United United Nations, the United States government, State Department, all of our politicians.

Speaker 5 Joe Biden's standing up and being like, the main problem in America is white racism from white men. Said that on tape many times.

Speaker 5 And I can't wait till this is a non-white majority country. What? Why would you? Okay, you could argue about whether it's better or worse as non-white.

Speaker 5 You know, okay, you could argue like the effects of it. But why would you want that? Why would you look around the country and say there's too many white people?

Speaker 5 And that's the official position of every institution in the United States.

Speaker 5 All of our schools, we give preference to non-whites, non-white males, every single school, every single big business, every single federal contract.

Speaker 5 Institutionally, we are opposed to whites and white men. And we're so marinating in it that no one stops and says, wait, what the hell is that?

Speaker 5 Again, that's why we hated the Nazis because they did shit like that. That's why we say segregation was wrong, which it was.

Speaker 5 That's why we hate Bull Conner. It's why we venerate Martin Luther King.
because that's wrong. That way of thinking is wrong.
And by the way, it doesn't matter what group is being targeted.

Speaker 5 It is wrong in an absolute sense. It's a universal principle.
It's always wrong.

Speaker 5 Whether you're Pakistani or Malaysian or Indian or from Myanmar or from Minnesota, it's always wrong to hurt people or help others, to elevate some and suppress others on the basis of their race.

Speaker 5 I thought that was the basis

Speaker 5 of

Speaker 5 our common culture. And they told me it was.
They put a monument on the mall to that, which I totally believe in.

Speaker 5 Judge a a man by the content of his character not the color of his skin i grew up with that i believe it i believe it now and we're doing exactly the opposite and it's so totally pervasive all pervasive and nothing has been done to reverse it at all we're mad about anti-semitism at harvard but which i am i'm against anti-semitism completely for the same reasons but no one's lifted a finger to address the actual problem which is like normal middle-class white kids have no shot of going to harvard they're hated the curriculum hates them officially.

Speaker 5 Here's a book saying whiteness is evil. Let's assign that.
It's like, if there was a book that says Jewishness is evil, we'd be like, no.

Speaker 5 Or blackness is evil, no.

Speaker 5 So this has gone on for really since the Second World War. And I think like so many things that are bad.

Speaker 5 And if you say that, they're like, oh, you're for Hitler. No, I'm very anti-Hitler.
Hitler was anti-Christian and a murderer, destroyed his own people and lots of other peoples, including Jews.

Speaker 5 And I'm totally opposed to all of that. But it's just a fact that since the Second World War, these trends, which are now flowering, and we can see that it's the end of something, they began then.

Speaker 5 They began in 1945. What is that? And I have a lot of thoughts about that.
But one is that

Speaker 5 our leaders globally in the West took away from World War II one big lesson, and that's that any white majority Christian country is a threat to world peace, to the order.

Speaker 5 You can't have a majority white Christian country because Germany under the Nazis was majority white Christian. Now, of course, the Nazis were not a Christian government.

Speaker 5 They were an anti-Christian government. They killed a lot of priests, but whatever.
That has somehow become a kind of unspoken consensus among many of our leaders.

Speaker 5 In fact, I would say almost all of our leaders. They're embarrassed of tons of white people in the same place.

Speaker 5 Look at that picture. That doesn't look like America.

Speaker 5 And none of us have ever said anything like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 5 You're attacking people on the basis of their race? Isn't that what you say you hate that we're all against? But you're doing it. Why don't you stop that immediately?

Speaker 5 No one has ever had the balls to say that.

Speaker 5 And so it's kind of proceeded apace and it's become not just a consensus, but like the reason for everything.

Speaker 5 And the result of that is the total destruction

Speaker 5 of the white world. And there was a white world.
There was a Chinese world too, and an Indian world and an Arab Arab world.

Speaker 5 There are lots of different worlds or different peoples in the country and I know them all and I like them all actually because I've been to all their countries.

Speaker 5 I've never been to a country I didn't like. I've never

Speaker 5 I've never merited in a culture I didn't think was interesting and kind of cool, even though it's not mine. You know, I am not, I'm the opposite of like small-minded person.

Speaker 5 I'm like, I'm really for diversity, actually. I've really enjoyed it a lot.
If I went,

Speaker 5 you know, I always spend a lot of time in the Middle East and I enjoy it because it's Middle Eastern. It's not American.
So like you can love different cultures.

Speaker 5 And I sincerely ask anyone who travels with me, I sincerely do, without wanting to destroy the one you grew up in.

Speaker 5 And like if other people are trying to destroy it on the basis of race, which they are,

Speaker 5 it's totally within bounds to be like, what are you doing and why? And that's what immigration is. Of course.
It's not an effort to make our economy better.

Speaker 5 And you see these people say, well, you know, which is true. This is true, but you'll hear people say of mass migration.

Speaker 5 Well, it's an effort for the ownership class to access cheaper labor by globalizing everything. And that, of course, as a matter of economics, is absolutely true, but it's not the whole story.

Speaker 5 When you start importing people from countries that are, you know, badly educated and socially dysfunctional and totally incompatible culturally with yours, are you really doing that so you can like reap their cheap labor?

Speaker 5 Are we importing Somalis so we can like set them to work in factories for half the rate that Native Americans know or not.

Speaker 5 Because they're not working in factories, not working at all in a lot of cases.

Speaker 5 They're on state and federal aid. I'm not attacking them.
I'm just saying I'm attacking the motives of the people who imported them against the will of the American population.

Speaker 5 I mean, there was never a groundswell. Let's bring in 50 million people illegally and put them on welfare.
No one ever asked for that. No one ever wanted that.
So why did they do it?

Speaker 5 Well, they did it not to make the country richer. They didn't.

Speaker 5 They did it to make it non-majority white. So that is an act by definition of racial hostility,

Speaker 5 of racism.

Speaker 5 And they've never been called out on it because somehow they, the first thing they did was take the moral high ground and occupy it and start yelling at everybody about how they're bad, you're racist.

Speaker 5 Shut up, racist, shut up, Nazi.

Speaker 5 And they so thoroughly intimidated the population into not saying anything that they just destroyed it.

Speaker 5 And then a lot of the whites, who are really always the ones that I blame since I am white and you just sort of instinctively blame people who look like you, just a fact, they're always telling you, you hate the other.

Speaker 5 That's the opposite of what I've noticed about people. I feel like people are much more open-minded about the other.

Speaker 5 I've been in probably every country in the world, and people do something outrageous, and I'll be like, oh, well, that's kind of interesting. I'm much less judgmental.

Speaker 5 But when someone who looks like me, who grew up in the same country I did, does something wrong, I have no

Speaker 5 grace for that person. I judge them.

Speaker 5 And it was the whites who did this. Sorry, it's just a fact.
And they're the ones who get hysterical when you point it out. And when I go to the UK, which is a lot because I have family there,

Speaker 5 as I said, I'm going in two days.

Speaker 5 I never have been in an argument with any Pakistani or Bangladeshi or Indian ever or Arab in London ever.

Speaker 5 It's all, they're always like, yeah, okay, you've got views. And they actually agree with a lot of my views, honestly.
I just have noticed this, okay?

Speaker 5 It's always the rich whites who get way up in your face about it. In fact, I had a speech

Speaker 5 at a very, very famous school, one of the most famous schools in England.

Speaker 5 I had a speech on Sunday night. One of the, someone at the school asked me to do it.
Of course, I will do it for free. I'm just, I was there.
And so I would do it.

Speaker 5 And he, I just got a text saying, no, you've been canceled because they don't want you on campus because you're too dangerous. This is like a very famous white school.

Speaker 5 They're the ones who were mad. They're the ones who are touchy about it.
And the reason they're mad and they're touchy is because, and this is such a familiar phenomenon,

Speaker 5 they've turned the hate against them inward on themselves. And people who hate themselves are the least trustworthy and most dangerous people in the world.

Speaker 5 If someone hates himself, he'll definitely hate you. There's just no doubt.
There's no doubt.

Speaker 5 I've watched people carefully for many years, and that is the group that I fear, the people who've internalized the hate and turned it inward.

Speaker 5 And we have whole countries like that and whole leadership classes, like the very familiar image of the angry menopausal liberal politician screaming at people about their sexism and racism.

Speaker 5 What are we really looking at? We're looking at someone who hates herself, you know, who's had no leadership in her life, no security, no love, no real relationships.

Speaker 5 She's miserable, and she's turning that misery outward and projecting it on the population. And that's a lot of our leadership classes like that.

Speaker 5 Sorry for such a long answer, but I really feel it.

Speaker 5 Wow.

Speaker 5 What, I mean,

Speaker 6 where does it derive from?

Speaker 5 Well, that's a really interesting question. And the short answer is I don't know.
You know, I mean, I'm, as I think I've made clear in our conversation, I'm

Speaker 5 much more likely now in the past couple of years to think

Speaker 5 about the spiritual dimension of who wins?

Speaker 6 Human

Speaker 6 motive.

Speaker 5 Nobody wins.

Speaker 5 That's kind of what I've arrived at is that, and that actually is what made me think more deeply about Christianity and about the spiritual realm and read the Bible.

Speaker 5 And it's really changed my life was not because I noticed how decent Christians were to each other.

Speaker 5 I wish I could say that was true. But what changed my life was watching how American politics had changed from an argument about how best to serve the population.

Speaker 5 You had two sides, you know, having this debate. Well, I think we should raise taxes.
No, I think we should lower them.

Speaker 5 But the goal was at least purportedly the same on both sides. Like, how do we do the best job we can for the people we represent, that we lead, for our people?

Speaker 5 And that was always the conversation. You had these kind of amazing, interesting arguments.
And I literally did it for a living. I was on a show called Crossfire.

Speaker 5 It was right and left, and we would debate what was best for the country. And the debates were dumb, and whatever.
It was cable news. So, of course, it was at a pretty low level.

Speaker 5 But I never one time questioned the goal was like, what's good for America? And then about 10 years ago, the nature of the debate changed.

Speaker 5 All of a sudden you had these issues that like immigration was one, the trans thing, the gay thing was another. I was like,

Speaker 5 How in the world could that possibly be good for anybody? It's not good for the people you say you're for. It's not good for everyone else.
Like, I see only destruction.

Speaker 5 Abolish the police or defund the police.

Speaker 5 That's one of the things that convinced me.

Speaker 5 It's like, okay, if you believe that George Floyd was beaten to death by a racist cop, he OD'd on fentanyl, but even if you believed he was beaten to death by a racist cop and the biggest problem that black people have in America is racist cops.

Speaker 5 Racist white cops making $47,000 a year.

Speaker 6 They're the problem.

Speaker 5 It's not the billionaires that are the problem. It's the union cop is the problem.
Okay, okay, all right.

Speaker 5 But even you believe that, let's say you really believe that and let's say, you know, you really, your life's goal was to help black people, which I'm not against. It's a fine goal.
Help black people.

Speaker 5 How long would it take you, if you really wanted to help black people to get to the solution?

Speaker 5 defund the police?

Speaker 5 You would never arrive at that solution because obviously defunding the police is not going to help black people or white people or Asian people or any people. It's not going to help people.

Speaker 5 Make the police better maybe, but get rid of the police. Like, how does that work? How is that possibly going to wind up improving anybody's life? And of course, the answer was it can't.

Speaker 5 And it didn't. But it was never going to.
So I watched that. And of course, I'm opposed to it, you know, for the normal conservative reasons.
We need police.

Speaker 5 But even the fact that we were having that conversation was a signal to me that this is a very different thing that I'm used to. This is people advocating and not just like the underclass.

Speaker 5 By the way, black people played no role in that conversation at all. No one ever asked black people what they thought.

Speaker 5 It was just like eight of their designated representatives on MSNBC were like, I'm a black person. Here's what.

Speaker 5 But no one actually asked black people what they thought because no one cared. The point was never.
to make anyone's life better. It was to destroy the country and the people who live in it.

Speaker 5 It was purely destructive.

Speaker 5 I really brooded on this because I had to write the script every night. So I was like constantly in my head thinking like, what are we watching? Don't be distracted by the bullshit.

Speaker 5 Like, what is this?

Speaker 5 And I concluded, because there was no other conclusion, that the point was destruction. That was the point.

Speaker 5 So I have always thought since I was a child that it's a binary. There are creators and destroyers.
A synonym for this is good and evil. God creates.
His opponents destroy.

Speaker 5 God created the earth and the heavens. His opponents destroy them.
It's that simple. I mean, it's complex in many ways, but fundamentally, it's that simple.
It's creation, destruction.

Speaker 5 And I've always been for creation, always.

Speaker 5 I believe in procreation. I believe in impregnating women.
It's awesome. I believe in building cabins.
Awesome. I like to create.
I like what my dogs have, puppies.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 I saw this right away and I was like, this is not a political debate. This is a spiritual struggle, creation versus destruction.
And that totally changed my life in every way.

Speaker 5 That really set off a chain reaction in me that changed me and changed my understanding of the world, changed my sense of my own purpose in the world.

Speaker 6 How long have you been thinking this?

Speaker 5 Since Memorial Day 2020.

Speaker 6 What happened on Memorial Day in 2020?

Speaker 5 George Floyd riots. And I'd covered,

Speaker 5 you know, a lot of stuff and been a lot of places and seen chaos and stuff. And one thing that I have concluded that I just noticed as a kid

Speaker 5 watch, you know, a Katrina or in Iraq or in Pakistan where you see like things fall apart is that

Speaker 5 everyone was so scared of

Speaker 5 war and violence and all that stuff, but that the scare and oppression, you know, I was always an Orwell fan, so I was like, you know, Big Brother's the scariest thing.

Speaker 5 No, the scariest thing is chaos. Chaos is the scariest thing.
Chaos. And then later in life, when I read the Old Testament, I was like, God brought order out of chaos.
Of course. I didn't even know.

Speaker 5 I mean, I'm Episcopalian, so I didn't really know anything.

Speaker 5 But chaos, I just noticed it because I was in a couple several times in the middle of what

Speaker 5 was chaos with no one in charge.

Speaker 5 You know, kids with rifles are in charge. And they have no goals.
They have no program. There's no ideology.
My whole life, I've been understanding history through the lens of ideology.

Speaker 5 There are these revolutionary peasants in Peru and they're Sendero Luminoso and they're revolutionary peasants in Vietnam and they're the Viet Cong. And like everything was about like the idea.

Speaker 5 And what I didn't realize until I saw it in person was,

Speaker 5 no, it's not that. It's much, it's atavistic.
It's much deeper than that. It's more primitive.
It's more fundamental than that. It's the struggle in the universe is between order and chaos.

Speaker 5 And I'm on the side of order, not on the side of repression. Order is now a synonym for repression, which I hate, because I believe in the human soul and the dignity of every person.

Speaker 5 But chaos is the worst thing. And I saw people in my country fomenting chaos for its own sake.
I don't know if they're intentionally evil. Probably not.
Most of us aren't.

Speaker 5 But they were tools of spiritual forces doing that. And I instantly recognized this was totally different from everything I've been covering and thinking about, writing about.

Speaker 5 talking about on TV for 30 years. This was a new thing.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 that just changed it. When that chaos broke out in Minneapolis, I'm not from Minneapolis.
I have no attachment to Minneapolis. Yes, there are a lot of Swedes in Minneapolis or were.
I think they left.

Speaker 5 But I saw this for what it was. And I was so bothered by it that I actually went to the convenience store

Speaker 5 where George Floyd tried to pass the phony $20 bill and went to the site where he was killed and wandered all around by myself.

Speaker 5 I literally landed there, went by myself, didn't do a story on it or anything. I just want to see it.

Speaker 5 And what I saw was what I expected to see a year later. It was a year after it happened.
In 2021, I went and I saw a place that had never recovered and never would recover.

Speaker 5 And that to me was proof of what I suspected, which was the point was destruction. The point was not rebirth.
They always tell you it's rebirth. We need to tear it down in order to rebuild it.

Speaker 5 They never rebuild it because they don't want to, because that's not the point. And people who want to build, just go ahead and build.
And people who want to destroy, go ahead and destroy.

Speaker 5 And they're in totally different camps. They're on opposing sides.
It's literally that simple.

Speaker 5 Anyone who tells you we need to knock it down in order to build it again is lying to you and probably to himself. He may think that that's not his goal.

Speaker 5 His goal is to destroy because Satan's job is to destroy you and everything around you. Everything good, everything beautiful, everything orderly, everything warm and loving and fraternal,

Speaker 5 everything honest is to destroy, destroy loyalty, destroy beauty. All the things that are virtues will be destroyed in that all-consuming fire of destruction.
And

Speaker 5 I just didn't know that. I was thinking in totally different terms, political terms, stupid terms, childish terms.
And I didn't even know it. I didn't even know how dumb I was because you never do.

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Speaker 5 Holy shit.

Speaker 5 So that was a moment for me.

Speaker 5 And I was the beauty of my job then and now is there's a lot of, not a lot, not enough, but there is some contemplative time where, because if you have to talk about stuff or present an opinion, part of the process is like thinking about what is my opinion.

Speaker 5 And now that I have no pressure on me from anywhere, I have zero pressure on me at all.

Speaker 5 I don't have a boss. I don't care about what people who hate me think necessarily.
And if they have a good point, I try to listen to it, but

Speaker 5 their purpose is not to instruct, it's to destroy. But anyway, now that I have no pressure on me, I have more contemplative time

Speaker 5 and I have a freer mind, and I think I can see things more clearly. I hope I can, always with the knowledge that we go really off track and don't know it, including me.
But

Speaker 5 I think everything I've said is true. I believe it's true, anyway.

Speaker 6 Do you think that

Speaker 6 this agenda that you're talking about, do you think this comes from nations, governments, humans, or do you think that this is

Speaker 5 spiritual? Well, it's clearly spiritual. I mean,

Speaker 5 really every big thing that we do is... I mean, if you believe what every culture

Speaker 5 who's ever left any record of what it believes, has believed.

Speaker 5 There is an ongoing unseen struggle between light and darkness, order and chaos, destruction and creation, good and evil, God and Satan. Like every, there's no culture that hasn't believed that ever.

Speaker 5 Ever. Except Western culture since the end of the Second World War.
We're in this absurd delusion about God is dead, but God's not dead. And everyone has thought that.

Speaker 5 And everyone's thought that because it's obviously true and the signs are all around us.

Speaker 5 So if you believe that, and I didn't believe this five or six years ago, I may have told you I believed it, but I definitely didn't really believe it. At all.
I didn't live like I believed it.

Speaker 5 I didn't think like I believed it. But now I do because I've seen a lot.
I've seen more than most people, and that's my conclusion. And

Speaker 5 if you believe that, then,

Speaker 5 you know, you know that in the end, the good guys win. There's a lot of drama between here and there.
Probably won't live to see it, but it doesn't matter. You do your part.

Speaker 5 But it definitely, it makes a lot of the details not unimportant, but it sets them in context.

Speaker 5 And it definitely gets you out of this kind of pointless loop in your head of like shock, outrage. I can't, you know, into the kind of social media

Speaker 5 dialogue that goes on inside your own skull where you're, you know, it's like point counterpoint. Well, this person did this.
I used to believe in that person. I can't believe he's betrayed me.

Speaker 5 It's like,

Speaker 5 again, for the fifth time, what did you think it was? What did you think it was? Did you find yourself believing that a human being was going to save your soul and like fix human sin?

Speaker 5 Who's the asshole? You. You believe that.

Speaker 5 And I no longer do believe that at all. And I know how flawed I am.
I mean, I have a keen sense of that. I'm reminded of it every day.

Speaker 5 And so how can I expect someone else to be like good and true and pure and never bend the knee and always do the right thing like no

Speaker 5 we're all imperfect but we're you know some of us are at least trying with the knowledge that we're going to fail and,

Speaker 5 you know, humiliate ourselves from time to time. But I just am not shocked at all anymore.

Speaker 5 But what is it? The destruction of whites?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I really don't know.
But

Speaker 5 tell me how that's not real. It is real.
And what's so hilarious is they're like, one of the reasons I started thinking about this was,

Speaker 5 I, you know, I hosted this TV show. Well, I still host a version of something like that, I guess.
And so in that process, as you well know,

Speaker 5 you get a lot of numbers. Like you're an American.

Speaker 5 So you're trained to make decisions based on the data, have your perceptions shaped by science, you know, all these like, you know, things you grew up with.

Speaker 5 And so it's always like, hey, can you pull the numbers for me on this? Like, who lives here? Do we know? It's such a big country. And

Speaker 5 I've been all around it and feel like I know it pretty well, but I don't really know it that well. No one knows America.
It's like the CIA.

Speaker 5 No one person in CI knows what everybody is doing at CIA because it's compartmentalized. America's the same thing.
So I would pull all these numbers and like,

Speaker 5 I never was interested really in demographics. I'm still not that interested, but I would look at these numbers.
It's like, holy shit, this country's changing fast on the most basic level.

Speaker 5 Who lives here?

Speaker 5 Like this, this town was 90% white. Now it's 60% Hispanic.
And that took 20 years. Has there ever been anything that moved that fast? Like human populations change very slowly.

Speaker 5 You do blood tests and the people who live 20 miles from Stonehenge, and then you do excavations at Stonehenge, and you find that they're related.

Speaker 5 So what do you think? So, but I would see this and I'd be like, wow, this country is really changing. And then I would see,

Speaker 5 but I still wasn't like hyped up about it or anything, but I was like, wow, that's kind of crazy. This is happening so fast.

Speaker 5 And then I would see people like Chuck Schumer stand up and be like, the one thing you're not allowed to say is that the great replacement theory is real. You're an anti-Semite.

Speaker 5 And my first thought was, what are the anti-Semite? What does that have to do with it? I guess I'm too literal or slow or something. And I'm like, it has nothing to do with Jews.

Speaker 5 It's not anti-Semitic, but like, how is that a conspiracy theory? That's, here are the numbers, dude.

Speaker 5 And there's you on the floor of the Senate saying, I can't wait till this country's minority white.

Speaker 5 Okay, so you're telling me you can't wait for something to happen. And when I say, what are you talking about?

Speaker 5 You scream at me and call me a bigot and tell me that I'm a conspiracy theorist for noticing what you just bragged about.

Speaker 5 You don't have to be a genius, and I'm definitely not a genius to say, what the hell is that?

Speaker 5 And that's when I, and then of course I travel. So in Australia and like, oh my gosh, New Zealand or Canada, what is, and again, to answer your question in one sentence, I don't know exactly,

Speaker 5 but this is the biggest thing, just biggest fact, biggest change to happen to global population. ever

Speaker 5 in recorded history that we know of.

Speaker 5 and nobody mentions it because they're too intimidated that they'll be like called david duke or something

Speaker 6 so i mean what you're saying basically is the white race is destroying itself from the inside just like the country is destroying itself from the inside just no i mean look again i hope i'm being honest about my lack of understanding.

Speaker 5 I don't understand the full outlines of this, but you...

Speaker 6 What does it look like if the white race is

Speaker 6 destroyed? I don't know.

Speaker 5 Why would you ever want to destroy any race on purpose?

Speaker 5 I mean, we had, you know,

Speaker 5 Europeans in the United States had a lot to do with the destruction of the American Indian. It wasn't all intentional.

Speaker 5 Disease played the primary role, but there was also like a sense that we can't have the whole continent if people are still occupying it. We got to move them and

Speaker 5 keep them from roaming around and pen them up in Oklahoma or whatever. And that was intentional.
And what was not all intentional? Again, disease played the primary role, but there was intent there.

Speaker 5 And why did my ancestors do that? Europeans do that? Because

Speaker 5 they wanted the continent and there were people there.

Speaker 5 And that story is pretty familiar. Like, that's the story of the Mongols sweeping across the steppe.
That's the story of the Normans. showing up in England.

Speaker 5 That's the story of every invasion and rape. And, you know, that's that's a story.
Replace your genetics with mine. Rape your wife.

Speaker 5 My Viking ancestors participated in that. Sorry.

Speaker 5 Okay, so we know that. That's just like a feature of history because it's a feature of human nature.
Is that what this is? I don't know, but it's never been more effective than what's happening now.

Speaker 5 And it's, as far as I know, never happened with the active, enthusiastic complicity of the people being replaced. I've never seen anything like that.

Speaker 5 It's incredible. I guess I shouldn't be surprised because people do commit suicide and they are convinced that they have to kill themselves.

Speaker 5 But the pure hate it shows is what still stuns me. How could leaders hate their own people so much?

Speaker 5 And as a father, I don't understand that. And I'm really bothered by that.
If you have people in your care,

Speaker 5 Your only real job is to love them. And we can argue about what love looks like and how it manifests itself, but you can't hate them.
You cannot hate them.

Speaker 5 And our leaders have hated us with homicidal hatred. Homicidal hatred.
It's not just, I want to get rich and like, you know, steal all your shit. It's like, no, I want you to die.

Speaker 5 And they couldn't have been clearer about it. I don't know how I didn't see it, but the results make it irrefutable.
Irrefutable. The country I grew up in, I was born in, May of 1969.

Speaker 5 Tell me the differences between America in May of 69, months before we landed on the moon or whatever,

Speaker 5 and now, and the main difference is a completely different group of people live here. What happened to the old people?

Speaker 5 How did that happen?

Speaker 5 It was intentional. Of course, it was.
They said it out loud. The president of the United States.
And I can't wait to listen. He's just like, again, going back to the first part of this conversation.

Speaker 5 How is it that you see things right in front of you and yet don't see them? I don't know. It's a spell.

Speaker 5 But I want to break free from it.

Speaker 5 Do you ever feel that in your life? Like something's just right there and you couldn't see it? Oh, yeah. All the time.
All the time.

Speaker 6 And then I get pissed at myself.

Speaker 5 Of course, me too. Or just bewildered.
Like, gosh, I flatter myself. I'm such a keen observer.

Speaker 5 Really?

Speaker 5 I mean,

Speaker 6 you know, you say that these politicians hate us.

Speaker 6 I believe you. I think the same thing.
I don't think any of them

Speaker 6 can't say any of them. We talked about Eli Crane earlier.

Speaker 5 For sure. Oh, I know.

Speaker 6 So you had Tim Burchett on. I like him.
Love Tim Burchett. He's a good guy.

Speaker 5 I love a couple

Speaker 5 of them. I don't want to wreck their lives by telling you who they are, but there are a couple I talk to and love and think are really decent people caught in a maelstrom.

Speaker 5 Caught you know, though, I mean,

Speaker 6 I thought about running

Speaker 6 in 2020, or not 2020, last election. And like, I really thought about it.
I was like, fuck, man. I'm here.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 I thought about running for Congress or I didn't even, I was just like, somebody's got to get involved.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 6 You know, and I called

Speaker 6 the, you know,

Speaker 5 the two people I just named that I

Speaker 6 the only fucking people I trust in there.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 I called some other people too, but the general consensus was like, you're not going to

Speaker 6 have any impact. No.

Speaker 6 They know they don't have any fucking impact.

Speaker 5 And they're so frustrated and unhappy. So unhappy, so unhappy.

Speaker 5 No,

Speaker 5 it's a nightmare.

Speaker 5 I've known people at all positions of. all positions of leadership, and

Speaker 5 the best ones are the most frustrated.

Speaker 6 They leave.

Speaker 5 They leave. They leave.
Yeah, they leave.

Speaker 5 Make accommodations that destroy them. The real battle's within us, right? So don't be destroyed.

Speaker 5 Don't make the trade.

Speaker 5 Power for your integrity. Never do that.
It's never worth it. I know people who've done that.
I know people.

Speaker 6 That's the trap that we were talking about earlier.

Speaker 5 Well, it's the right.

Speaker 5 Fall down and worship me and all this will be yours. I mean, that's the bargain.

Speaker 5 That's the bargain. And every person faces that.
Every person faces that. Usually a lot.
And

Speaker 5 but and I know a million people who've taken the deal and I know a few of them really well, like intimately well. And

Speaker 5 I know it sounds like moral, and I've certainly done that a million times in my life. You make accommodations because you think it's worth it or whatever.

Speaker 5 You know, I'm not being judgmental, but I know a couple people intimately well who've done it in a big way, you know, big accommodation, big reward.

Speaker 5 All this will be yours. And I can say from firsthand knowledge that that is not a good trade at all.
And those people are tormented. They're in hell on earth.

Speaker 5 And I'm not guessing at all about that.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 it's really sad. They're captives.
They're absolutely captives. And you can tell who's free.
You can feel free.

Speaker 6 Do you feel bad for them?

Speaker 5 Oh my gosh, yes.

Speaker 6 Why?

Speaker 6 They fucking sold you out.

Speaker 5 They're living in hell because

Speaker 5 they're in bondage.

Speaker 6 They sold you out.

Speaker 5 They sold you. Oh, I've sold you.
But they sold you a million times.

Speaker 6 They sold your wife out. They sold all your friends out.
They sold the whole fucking country.

Speaker 5 Of course.

Speaker 6 Why do you feel bad for them?

Speaker 5 Because imagine being that man. You know, the person you feel sorriest for in the whole New Testament is Peter.
Jesus is like, you're going to, you're going to

Speaker 5 imagine. Okay, so the family that I grew up in, which was not

Speaker 5 conventional at all, but we had a very simple moral code in my family. Very simple.
The most simple. It was the mafia code.

Speaker 5 You know, some things were discouraged, but allowed.

Speaker 5 You wind up banging your assistant.

Speaker 5 Don't do that. But, you know, things happen.
You cheat on your taxes. Okay.
Don't get caught. Betray people you love who love you.
That's it.

Speaker 5 That is not acceptable in any way. Betrayal of someone you love is the worst thing you could ever do.
True betrayal. Denial of a person you love.

Speaker 5 and that was just beaten into us i mean we never even questioned that that was the center of our family that belief you never but you'll never betray if i remember my father saying you know don't commit a triple murder but if you ever do like call me you know we'll get you to oblivia you know or whatever and um that was just like it couldn't have been clearer so then you read the new testament it's like jesus like to peter his guy who loves him more than anyone loves him and jesus loves peter most and he's like you're gonna betray me three times betray you

Speaker 5 yes and then peter does it to a girl. This little girl is like, don't you know him? And Peter's like, I've never seen the guy before.

Speaker 5 And I remember the first time I read that and I was like, you are disgusting.

Speaker 5 You are dis, you betrayed your friend. Like, I just, in my mind, I think whenever I see someone do something bad, I'm like, yeah, I'm so glad I didn't do that.
But I know my, I could do anything.

Speaker 5 I'm just being honest. Like, I don't, I don't trust myself.
I would never. betray someone I love.
I've never done it. I never would do it.

Speaker 5 And then you see that and you're just like, imagine living with that. Imagine

Speaker 5 betraying somebody. I mean, I've, I've been denounced this week, like 20 people I've helped.

Speaker 5 And you sort of toggle, like in a couple of cases, like really helped.

Speaker 5 And you toggle back and forth in your head between being like outraged, like, how could you, you know, all the things I did for you?

Speaker 5 I had you on my show. I helped you in your divorce or whatever it is.

Speaker 5 In the case of one guy, I sold your schlocky books because I felt sorry for you. And now you're calling me a Nazi and you're like, I'm so mad.

Speaker 5 And then really, I mean this. I'm not just saying it.
I really ended up feeling like, oh, how would you like to be that guy?

Speaker 5 How would you like to be that guy? Like your wife knows. Your wife is,

Speaker 5 she's never going to

Speaker 5 enjoy sex with you again. You know, a woman can't respect a man like that.
Losing the respect of your wife. Oh, man.

Speaker 5 Your wife's pissed at you that, you know, whatever. whatever.
Your wife doesn't respect you?

Speaker 5 Rather be dead. I mean that in my heart.
I mean that. Rather be dead because

Speaker 5 that a wife's respect for her husband is the basis of a family. If you could distill it to one thing that makes a happy family, happy children, it's a wife's respect for her husband.
Period.

Speaker 5 Lots of elements in the stew, but the stock, the base of it, is a wife's respect for her husband. Now, of course, it's not given, it's earned, but it's the basis of everything.

Speaker 5 And if a man, you know, weakness is very hard for women to forgive, real weakness, not physical, you know, moral weakness, being a worm, man, they know.

Speaker 5 They're like animals, so they know, and they don't lie to themselves. Like a woman knows what a woman knows, and you can't dissuade her from it because she can smell it.

Speaker 5 She doesn't doubt her own instincts on anything.

Speaker 6 A woman's intuition.

Speaker 5 It's the realest thing there is. And the number one thing they don't like and have every reason not to like is a man who is weak.

Speaker 5 And she will not respect that man. And period.
You can't make her, actually, can't really make women do anything. We learn.

Speaker 5 And which is great. That's what I like about him.
But

Speaker 5 that I was the thing that

Speaker 5 yeah, you have to, you have to really lead. If you want a woman to respect you, you know, you, you have to be better, actually.
No one wants to hear that, but it's just true.

Speaker 5 You can't make him respect you. You can't beat him into respecting you.
Shut up, respect me.

Speaker 5 No, it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 that's why the relationship between men and women is so compelling. It's like the movie that never ends.
It's like a cliffhanger at every turn. It's like so complex and interesting and rewarding.

Speaker 5 And it's like,

Speaker 5 it's the main source of joy and fascination in life. But

Speaker 5 this one person I'm thinking of, I'm not going to name him, but specifically, I literally was like blown away that this guy called me a Nazi.

Speaker 5 And then, of course, something came career of calling me a Nazi. And then I was like, oh, at what cost to you? I mean, in three months, no one will remember.
Why were they calling him a Nazi?

Speaker 5 He doesn't seem like a Nazi. No one will care.
No one ever cares about this stuff over time. We can't remember.

Speaker 5 You hear people's names and you're like, weren't you in some kind of sex scandal 10 years ago? No one can remember.

Speaker 5 But a man who loses, who behaves that way.

Speaker 5 in a dishonorable, degraded way in front of his wife who betrays someone for advantage, like she'll never forget that ever. And he has to live with that.

Speaker 5 And I don't have, of all the sins I've committed, and there are many I could write books about them. That's just not one of them.
I'm never going to do that.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I'm not being pious or self-righteous, but it's just true. And so I do feel sorry for people who've taken that deal.
It is not worth it. And the other thing that you have learned.

Speaker 5 And that I've learned, if you're ever successful in any way and all of a sudden, like the things that you wanted, you can have.

Speaker 5 Like, oh, I really want this thing.

Speaker 5 And then you get the thing, and it's like Christmas morning. The second you open the present, it's like, ah, kind of a letdown.

Speaker 5 You know, the best part of Christmas morning is before you open the presents.

Speaker 5 What's beneath the wrapping? Holy shit, I can't, you know, is it, is it a bike? Like, you don't know. And it's totally compelling.
And the second you know, it's a lot like an orgasm.

Speaker 5 It's like, oh man, I worked hard to get here, but

Speaker 5 you know what?

Speaker 5 It's like, it's why the French call it le petit mar, you know, the little death.

Speaker 5 Because it's a letdown. And everything in life is that.

Speaker 5 Everything material is that. And so you get this thing that you thought you wanted, whether it's the new bike or control over a nation or adulation or vindication or billions of dollars.

Speaker 5 And then you sit there alone in your living room and you're like, eh. Kind of wasn't what I thought it was going to be.
That is true. And the one good thing about being successful is you learn that.

Speaker 5 You know, that's like the first thing you learn. This, this is what I got.
People kissing my ass or a summer house. It's like, okay.
I mean, it's not against any of that.

Speaker 5 It's, you know, great to be respected, great to have a summer house, but like

Speaker 5 it's not worth having your wife not respect you. Nothing is worth that ever.

Speaker 5 Everyone needs to know that. People like happily go die,

Speaker 5 you know, to win the respect of their wives. And they should.
They should.

Speaker 5 It's worth it.

Speaker 6 Why did you decide to have Nick Fuentes on? I thought you guys.

Speaker 5 Oh, I hated Nick Fuentes, and he

Speaker 5 well going back to what i was just saying he criticized my dad also criticized my wife and my son but um i don't know much about him

Speaker 5 well i was super pissed at him and he's 27 and he criticized my dad why was why were you pissed at him because he criticized you not a lot of criticize my dad i'm his oldest son that's those are just the rules can't can't stand for that my father was a flawed man what did he but a great man oh cia guy

Speaker 5 he did all this bad he was involved in a ron contra

Speaker 5 some of it was true, you know, sort of true, or I mean, true enough, I guess. So that made it worse.
It didn't matter

Speaker 5 whatever he said about my dad. But I just, my father just died.
And I was like, I can't, I'm, that just drives me absolutely insane.

Speaker 5 So, and I feel an obligation to be mad about it because it's my dad. Those are the rules.
So I attacked him. And then I called him.
And I was like, look, I don't know you.

Speaker 5 But I want you to know why. I always want to tell people why I don't like them.
And I want to do it right to their face.

Speaker 5 And I always call people and just say I'm going to attack you or I did attack you and I want you to hear why from me.

Speaker 5 I just did that yesterday to somebody. Anyway, I always do that.

Speaker 5 And so I called Nick Fuentes and I said, I want you to know why I attacked you, attacked you because you criticized my father and I just

Speaker 5 never going to accept that. My father was a great man and flawed, but a great man, like a literally a great man, and I'm never going to accept that.
And he, to his credit, was like, I get that.

Speaker 5 I get that. So, but I still didn't like him.

Speaker 5 I'm not friends with him now. But I,

Speaker 5 because of that,

Speaker 5 I got a lot of input from people. Like, I don't know that much about Nick Fuentez.
I'm 56. I don't, I don't like the internet.
So I don't really know that much. I've seen clips.
He's very talented.

Speaker 5 I know that.

Speaker 5 But I'm not an expert on that at all. And I got calls from a lot of people, including some very influential people who knew a lot about Nick Fuentez.

Speaker 5 And they're like, this kid is the single most influential figure among young white men and not just white, actually.

Speaker 6 Is that true?

Speaker 5 Oh, it's definitely true. I mean, it was true last month.
I don't know if it's true now. I mean, everything changes, but who knows? But that was definitely my impression.
And I think it's right.

Speaker 5 And in the subsequent weeks, I've asked a million different people, Nick Fuentes. I'm like, yes, he's extremely influential among young men.
Wow, how young? What age?

Speaker 5 20s, teens, and 20s, college students, high school students, college students, just out of college, can't find a job.

Speaker 5 They can't find jobs, right? A lot of this, by the way, a lot of the frustration is economic, which no one wants to talk about or seems invited to talk about. It's not about the Jews.

Speaker 5 It's about the economy.

Speaker 5 And it's about the betrayal that young men feel when they go through all these hoops and get all these stupid degrees and find out they're worth nothing and they're in $300,000 in debt.

Speaker 5 And they're like, I did what you told me to do and I'm fucked. So I'm mad at you.
And why wouldn't they be? They have every right to be. That's my personal opinion, but it's just true.

Speaker 5 Anyway, and a lot of those men watch Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 5 So I was like, Nick Fuentes is one of those figures that everybody, like Putin, that's why I interviewed Putin.

Speaker 5 Everyone talks about this person, but nobody, I believe one of my missions, this is not everyone's mission, it just happens to be mine at this stage of my life, is I want to hear what people think.

Speaker 5 And I want to give people a chance to speak for themselves. Because I think every person from Edi Amin to Mother Teresa has an inherent right to tell their own story.

Speaker 5 And you can disagree with the story and you can doubt the story and you can do whatever you want.

Speaker 5 But to say they don't have a right to tell their story, I just reject that. I disagree.
I disagree. And I feel like it's not my only mission in life, but that's one of my beliefs.

Speaker 5 And I've done what I can. my limited attention and means to like give people a place to tell their story.

Speaker 5 Why should

Speaker 5 people on the internet have a right to define anybody with two-minute clips and that person doesn't have a right to tell his own story? I just reject that. I don't care.

Speaker 5 I reject that whether it's Hillary Clinton

Speaker 5 or Nick Fuentes or anyone in between. People have a right to say what they think.
And if you want to watch it, don't.

Speaker 5 So I just believe that and I'll never stop believing that. And if they don't have that right, what you're really saying is other people have a right to speak for someone else.

Speaker 5 And they don't. They They don't, because we're all created by God and we all have the right to say what we think.

Speaker 5 So I believe that. So I was like, yeah, if I have Nick Fuentes on, obviously probably some people will criticize me, just as they did with Putin, you know, you love Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 5 You agree with everything he says. Nope.
I've interviewed war criminals in Liberia. I've interviewed cannibals.
I kind of liked them, just being honest. I kind of like everybody I interview.

Speaker 6 Do you guys break bread together?

Speaker 5 Me and the cannibals?

Speaker 5 No. And by the way,

Speaker 5 this was in africa and i did not lecture them about cannibalism which i'm totally opposed to

Speaker 5 but anyway so i did and and it was really interesting and i i i try not to lecture people just in general

Speaker 5 because i don't think it's i don't like being lectured at all and i don't think most people do

Speaker 5 and I think the purpose of lecturing people usually is self-aggrandizing. The point of lecturing, you know, Sean Ryan, you're a bad person.
Unlike me, I'm a great person.

Speaker 5 I don't have the need to convince people I'm a great person at all. I just don't feel that need.
They can decide for themselves. And I feel like that's a really dishonest way to interview people.

Speaker 5 You're using them as a man uses a prostitute for his own pleasure. So I'm using you to make a statement about myself.
I'm not doing that. I don't need to do it.
I don't want to do it.

Speaker 5 And I'm not doing it. So I'm not going to lecture Putin about his war crimes.
You can read about Putin all you want. I want to hear what what Putin says.

Speaker 5 And I took that exact same approach with Nick Fuentes.

Speaker 5 And I knew there would be, you know, an outcry or whatever.

Speaker 5 Probably understated it a little bit.

Speaker 5 But, you know, not up to me. But my conscience is clear.
One of the only parts that kind of bothered me, but now it amuses me,

Speaker 5 is there was a point in the interview where Nick Fuentes said, really out of nowhere, I love Stalin.

Speaker 5 I was like, Joseph Stalin? And he's like, yeah, I love Stalin. I mean, this was not relevant to what we were talking about at all.
It just was out of the blue.

Speaker 6 So I said... Had to get it in there, huh?

Speaker 5 I guess. He had like a need to tell me he loved Stalin.
So I made a snap decision. I said something like, I don't know what you're talking about.
We'll get back to that.

Speaker 5 And then, of course, I got completely sidetracked and forgot and didn't get back to it. And I was criticized.
I didn't get back to it. That's fair, I guess.

Speaker 5 My instinct really was he's just saying that he probably doesn't know much about Stalin. I actually do know a lot about Stalin.

Speaker 5 It's like the only thing I studied in college and I'm interested in the topic. Maybe he does know a lot about Stalin.
I don't know. But I do actually.
And I have a lot of thoughts on Stalin.

Speaker 5 It's a very interesting topic. And

Speaker 5 people flipped out about that and accused me of loving Stalin. And what I found, now find amusing about that is those exact same people

Speaker 5 were also getting mad at me. for questioning the course of the Second World War and the conclusions that we're drawing from it.

Speaker 5 Now, my main problem with America's involvement in the Second World War was the fact that we sided with Stalin and armed Stalin and made it possible for Stalin to fight that war through a program called Lenlease,

Speaker 5 which was passed, I think, in the fall of 1941 with a unanimous vote among Democrats in the Congress.

Speaker 5 And Stalin was the greatest murderer in history by some counts. Stalin Mao, you know, pick one, but Stalin has a good, has a right to be called that and was definitely

Speaker 5 unchallenged the most prolific murderer of Christians in history, genocider of Christians, of Christians, and murderer of priests and a destroyer of churches and like a true enemy of Christianity.

Speaker 5 Killed tens of millions of Christians. And the U.S.

Speaker 5 government sent him billions and billions adjusted for inflation, but billions of dollars in cash and clothing and war material and airplanes and tanks and jeeps. I mean, we armed the Red Army.

Speaker 5 We armed Stalin.

Speaker 5 Two of us people say, well, are you for Hitler? No, I'm totally opposed to Hitler. But I'm never going to accept arming Stalin.
I'm just not. Why would I?

Speaker 5 And these

Speaker 5 same people are like, well, you had to choose. Well, no.
How about, well, start here, we're not arming Stalin. We're also not going to arm Hitler.
Why would we do that? You lose all moral authority.

Speaker 5 You're sending billions to Joseph Stalin of the Ukrainian famine and the purge trials and all the rest.

Speaker 5 I don't take you seriously if you arm Stalin. Why would I?

Speaker 5 It was those exact same people who jumped my shit for being pro-Stalin in this interview with Nick Fuentes. And I'm like,

Speaker 5 I don't take you seriously. I'm starting to think you'll say anything to get me to be quiet.

Speaker 5 And that just made me laugh to myself. I had no one to talk to about this, of course, but I was amused by it.
No, I'm very anti-Stalin. That's actually one of the reasons I'm mad at Churchill.

Speaker 5 because he was closely allied with Stalin.

Speaker 5 I'm mad at Roosevelt for the same reason. I'm I'm sad about my country's involvement in a war where we sided with Stalin.
And I'm bewildered that no one will say that.

Speaker 5 And that anyone who does say that is like anti-American. My family's been here for like 400 years.
I'm hardly anti-American. I couldn't be more pro-American.

Speaker 5 And I'm pro-America because in general, we don't arm Stalin. And I don't think we should ever arm Stalin again.
Or back al-Qaeda. or have the Al-Qaeda guy to the White House like the other day.

Speaker 5 I'm just not for that.

Speaker 5 So I guess long story short, I have concluded through much experience that some of the people screaming at me don't have the moral authority to get my attention.

Speaker 5 Good. Fair? Good for you.

Speaker 6 What did you learn from that interview?

Speaker 5 I learned that

Speaker 5 he's popular for the same reason most people are popular in unmediated media

Speaker 5 because he's got a really compelling message, which is like 90% true or pretty true. What is his message? His message is: we've been betrayed by the people who thought

Speaker 5 were on our side. We thought these people were for us.
They actually sold us out.

Speaker 5 Well, that's certainly true.

Speaker 5 Israel has way too much influence over our Congress. Obviously, 95%

Speaker 5 of members of Congress take money from a foreign lobby, AIPAC. Like, how is that defensible? You can, by the way, you could be for Israel, but still be like, what is that? Why is that allowed?

Speaker 5 Are there bigger lobby confirms than APAC? Well, there are a million lobbies and not all of them have organizations. You know, I don't think Israel is America's biggest problem.

Speaker 5 I've never thought that.

Speaker 5 But it's certainly America's most insulting problem. It's so insulting to be ordered around by a country of 9 million people when you're the United States.
Like, what?

Speaker 5 It's a totally irrelevant country. Its only relevance is we promise to protect them.
Therefore, we're like involved in all this crap. You fought some of the wars.

Speaker 5 But if you take that out and you're just like, hey, you know, good luck. You're great.
Wish you well. Can't wait to go to Jerusalem next summer on vacation, which I have done and hope to do again.

Speaker 5 But if we've imbued the country with all the significance that is not deserved, no resources. It's the size of Maryland.
It's got 9 million people. Like, this is a big world, very complicated.

Speaker 5 And somehow our Congress and successive White Houses have decided that the only thing that matters is this tiny, irrelevant country. It's not an attack on the country.
I do wish Israel well.

Speaker 5 I always have, and I still do.

Speaker 5 But I am pretty offended by that behavior because they're supposed to be representing me and my fentanyl-addicted neighbors, and they're not. And they don't care at all about Americans.

Speaker 5 Our leadership. I'm not attacking Israel.
I'm talking our leadership. So that's a totally fair position.
And that is basically his position.

Speaker 5 Or that's, he's describing the frustration that normal people feel when they see that. And I'm good for him.
The Jew hate stuff, I'm totally opposed to on every level, moral and practical.

Speaker 5 And I told him that.

Speaker 5 Whatever. So I'm not going to whine about how people are misrepresenting my views because that's who they are.
But

Speaker 5 I personally think big picture, it's always good to get clarity about what people really believe, about what they really care about. We should know.
We should know. And maybe you're

Speaker 5 more for them or more against them, but like it's the lying that bothers me. So I'd much rather rather have people just be totally straightforward about what their goals are.

Speaker 5 I'd love to see what's really in your heart. And I think we're seeing that much more than we did last month.
And so for that reason, I'm glad we had the conversation, despite the fact,

Speaker 5 you know, they're attacking my family, like for real, attacking my family, like for real.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 we'll be fine. A pretty strong family, so I feel okay about that.
And I feel bad for anyone around me who's been hurt by it. That certainly wasn't my intent.

Speaker 5 But I do think there's been a real upside, which is clarity. It's better.
Like, by the way, the dumbness of these people, that's the other thing that, you know what I really learned is how dumb.

Speaker 5 One of the reasons that the status quo was bad was because a lot of decisions were being made

Speaker 5 in true secrecy. Like not only.
You did not know who made the decision, you couldn't know why, and you were discouraged from talking about unforeseen policy questions. You just couldn't know.
Shut up!

Speaker 5 Shut up, Nazi. Okay.

Speaker 5 The debate that we've had over the last month has risen to the surface a lot of things that were subterranean. And

Speaker 5 as I said, I think that's good. But one of the things we've learned is that the people who are really kind of running America's foreign policy was Lindsey Graham or whomever,

Speaker 5 these people are not geniuses at all.

Speaker 6 Like they're dumb.

Speaker 5 They're dumb.

Speaker 5 They're just mediocre. Jeffrey Epstein is my favorite example.

Speaker 5 Because Jeffrey Epstein lived his life basically in the shadows, like you couldn't really know where the money, you still don't know where the money came from.

Speaker 5 Like, what's the goal of this? What is this? You can't know because it's all secret. Classified, national security.

Speaker 5 You start to assume that Jeffrey Epstein is this like Svengali and he's like, he's a genius and he's controlling everything.

Speaker 5 And then you read his emails.

Speaker 5 He's like a fucking moron from Staten Island who can barely speak English. He's like dumb.

Speaker 5 He's totally impressed by Harvard.

Speaker 5 He went to Cooper Union. He's impressed by Harvard because the brand name impresses him.
It's like wearing a polo shirt with a horse on it. He thinks that's cool.

Speaker 5 He's totally unsophisticated, actually,

Speaker 5 and not smart at all. He's crafty.
He's got high canine and animal intelligence, but he's not a genius at all. He's a dummy.
He's a thug.

Speaker 5 And that has been like kind of amazing to see. His only real advantage is that he's evil.
He'll do anything. He's gotten just no limits at all.
Like, you need to kill someone up. We'll do that.

Speaker 5 If we have to, we'll do that.

Speaker 5 And that person, the unscrupulous person, does have an advantage because he's there are no boundaries, right?

Speaker 5 So, if your goal is to get rich or powerful, you can get there faster if you'll do anything to get there.

Speaker 5 It doesn't end well ever. Didn't end well with him.
But that's really what I learned: is that the people

Speaker 5 who are mad at me

Speaker 5 call me names because that's literally all they can do shut up you can't speak at that event we don't want you on stage we're deplatforming you okay i don't i don't care really but like who's saying that to you oh damn i mean every i mean no i mean what do i i don't even want to go through i don't want to make it about me because i'm certainly not oppressed and you haven't impressed my spirit you could fucking shoot me i'm not going to impress my spirit it's just i mean i'm just asking because i i still see all over the place i saw you of course but i guess all i'm I'm saying is...

Speaker 5 No, no, no. I have...

Speaker 6 I think you were just with Megan Kelly and her tour.

Speaker 5 Megan Kelly is a tough woman, man. She's for real.

Speaker 5 And I mean, she's more for real than people know. I'm not saying she agrees with me on everything.
She doesn't. And by the way, she doesn't agree with you.
She's like, I don't agree with you.

Speaker 5 You know, she's like that tough. She'll just tell you.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 you can't make Megan Kelly. take a position.
You just can't. She just won't.
Megan Kelly just absolutely will not.

Speaker 5 If she agrees, of course she'll agree but if she doesn't agree you're not going to scare her into agreeing

Speaker 5 there aren't a ton of people like that there are some they're all my friends even if i disagree with them i just love people like that and i want to be around them she's one of them no but what's interesting is not that they've like

Speaker 5 really inconvenienced me they haven't

Speaker 5 it's that they've revealed who they are so like

Speaker 5 Once they did this with Fuentes, this is the thing I learned is that Fuentes, I didn't know, I didn't know much about him, to be honest. I'm just too old for this shit.

Speaker 5 I just, it's not my generation, so I just didn't know. But Nick Fuentes first became known freshman year of college, like first month of college.
He's a student at BU,

Speaker 5 and he puts something on the internet Twitter or something, and basically like, why does Israel control our Congress? Something like that. He's a college freshman.

Speaker 5 And Ben Shapiro, sitting at like command center somewhere, is like, what? A college student has done on board with the program? Destroy him.

Speaker 5 And Ben Shapiro tries to, quote, cancel this kid. He's a fucking college student.
He's a freshman from Chicago. Rather than just call the guy and be like, hey, actually, I saw what you said.

Speaker 5 I don't like it. But there are reasons that we're allied with Israel.
And like, it really helps us. Or whatever.
Make your case, whatever your case is.

Speaker 5 His first instinct was, this man must be destroyed. He can never have a job in Con Inc.
Some, you know, no one can hire him. And have that work for you, Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 5 Well, of course, course, it didn't work at all. Nick Fuentes is way bigger than Ben Shapiro has ever been, and way more influential than Ben Shapiro has ever been.
You can't cancel an idea.

Speaker 5 It just does not work.

Speaker 5 Let's kill Jesus. Okay, have that work.
World's biggest religion. Just doesn't work.
And any wise person knows that.

Speaker 5 So the only way liberals used to say this, they don't believe it apparently anymore, but the only way

Speaker 5 to stop bad ideas is by countering them with good ideas. You want to defeat lies, tell the truth.
It's literally that simple.

Speaker 5 And as if I needed to be reminded of that, the last month, I don't think a single person has ever made the case that I'm wrong, that Nick Fuentes is wrong. The Jew hatred stuff is wrong, period.

Speaker 5 And I said that. The white hatred, black hatred, Jew hatred, Malaysian hatred, Bedouin hatred, it's all wrong.
I believe that. as much as I believe anything.

Speaker 5 Okay. But the rest of it, his analysis, which is actually

Speaker 5 smart and in a lot of cases true, no one's even attempted to rebut it. 95% or whatever the number is, if members of Congress take AIPAC money, how is that good? Shut up, Nazi!

Speaker 5 So if that's your only defense,

Speaker 5 you've lost. You've lost.
You didn't even enter the game. We're playing different games.
I'm trying to tell the truth, convince people that what I think is true is actually true.

Speaker 5 And you're trying to make me be quiet because you don't like it. You can shoot me or you can shoot everybody, but it won't, it doesn't go away because the truth is an immovable object.

Speaker 5 It just exists and you conform to it or you don't, but it doesn't change because it's nature.

Speaker 6 Why do you think you got so much shit for having him on? He's been on other stuff. He's been on.

Speaker 5 Oh, I got shit precisely because

Speaker 5 I'm not an anti-Semite. That was the whole point.
I mean, if David Duke or whatever, pick an anti-I don't know, even though there are many, I'm sure there are famous anti-Semites.

Speaker 5 I can't think of one, but David Duke is a famous anti-Semite. If David Duke interviewed Nick Fuentes, he'd be like, oh, you know, they wouldn't say anything, whatever, who cares?

Speaker 5 Or talking to each other. But if someone who is openly opposed and sincerely opposed to hating people on the basis of their bloodline, which I definitely am.

Speaker 5 interviews Nick Fuentes and is like, hey, Nick Fuentes, stop with the Jew hatred, but let's talk about your views on the betrayal of Republican voters by conservative institutions and the undue influence a foreign country has over our government, those are entirely reasonable conversations.

Speaker 5 And they're scary because they are reasonable.

Speaker 5 They're very difficult to refute. You have to, like, what is, what's the counter argument? The country should be controlled by a country of 9 million people.
Like, what are you even saying?

Speaker 5 No one agrees with that.

Speaker 5 So if a reasonable person says it, that is an actual threat. And they were like, well, must destroy him and his son and his brother.
And it's like,

Speaker 5 I'm not afraid of you, man. I'm just not.

Speaker 5 And not because I'm so tough or brave or whatever, but because why would I be?

Speaker 5 You call me names and I'm going to,

Speaker 5 you're not telling the truth and you know you're not. You know, you start saying things about me that are true,

Speaker 5 that I'm trying to hide, whatever those might be.

Speaker 5 I'll get in fetal position and hide in the corner. But you throw lies at me?

Speaker 5 I'm totally unintimidated.

Speaker 5 And anyone who believes that, I'm sorry. I'll just say it again.
Here's the truth. Don't believe I can't control that.

Speaker 5 So, yeah, that's why they don't like me. Not because I'm extraordinarily brave.
I'm not. Definitely not because I'm extraordinarily smart.
I'm not.

Speaker 5 But because

Speaker 5 they don't have an actual argument. So all they can do is destroy.
And I think they've reached kind of the limit. Like, what's the next stage? That does concern me.

Speaker 5 um

Speaker 5 not that much really but we're moving into a new time for sure now after the last month and there are a number of fairly influential people on the right who've just basically said out loud i'm for censorship and identity politics

Speaker 5 we just had an election a year ago this month in which republicans won because they were opposed to Let's say it, censorship and identity politics.

Speaker 5 And then their voters find out that a lot of the leaders of the party are totally for censorship and identity politics. How does this continue? Well, I'm out.

Speaker 5 I mean, I know that, but so are a lot of other people. Like, I'm not, would never vote.
I don't care what you call yourself.

Speaker 5 If you're for censorship and identity politics, two things that I truly, on principle as a Christian, oppose, I'm not voting for you.

Speaker 5 Period. Ever.

Speaker 5 So that's like a big, big change. Like the veil is dropped.
We can see like you're walking walking back from the shower and your towel slipped and I

Speaker 5 I saw what you look like naked. I can't unsee that

Speaker 5 Right? Has that ever happened to you?

Speaker 5 Mm-hmm. You see what someone looks like naked and you're like what the side of my head? I don't want to

Speaker 5 I Saw your appendix scar

Speaker 5 right? So I don't I mean I don't know I never know anything that's coming. You know, I can't, you can't, it's always something different from what you thought.

Speaker 5 But as of right now, I think it's like November, probably. It's before Thanksgiving right now.

Speaker 5 I

Speaker 5 know for certain that we're in for big, big, big, big changes because just like fighting with your wife and you say something awful but true, things are never the same.

Speaker 6 What is it about him that

Speaker 6 what is Gen Z or what is the younger generation?

Speaker 5 I mean, what are the, what's the draw?

Speaker 5 what's the draw to well he's frontage unusually articulate self-confident clear he's a clear talker i don't agree i mean he's 27 so you know not to be arrogant or be like young man you don't know but you know hanging around a long time gives you i think a fuller perspective and he hasn't so like there are things i disagree with conclusions he draws that i think are not true.

Speaker 5 But in general, the guy is highly articulate, totally fearless, doesn't care at all. That's always a draw.
Like the man who just doesn't care, he's just going to say it.

Speaker 5 Always has a big audience because people are attracted to strength, period. Every time.
What's strength? It's fearlessness. I'm not afraid.

Speaker 5 And that's how, you know, that's how the Vikings pick their leaders. Who's the least afraid? Of course, human beings are like that.
They'll never stop being like that.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 only in the

Speaker 5 only in our world are there other do you put like terrified menopausal women in charge? Normal setties don't do that. We're not going to do that in 20 years.

Speaker 5 But Nick Fuentes is just a reminder that people follow fearlessness because they read it as strength. We should not be surprised.
Why are they open to it? Why are they not watching the approved?

Speaker 5 Why are they not watching Fox News and

Speaker 5 some Sean Hannity? What does Sean Hannity think? They don't know who Sean Hannity is. Why? Why are they open to this? Well, changing technology is one of the things, one of the reasons.

Speaker 5 They don't watch TV. They don't have cable subs.

Speaker 5 But the main reason is because they've been completely betrayed. Nick Fuentes is absolutely right.
They've been screwed. They can't find jobs.

Speaker 5 The average age of a first-time homebuyer in the United States is almost 40, 40 years old.

Speaker 5 It's a disaster. That's like collapse.
And they've been blamed for it. And people have been hating on them their whole lives for being white and being male.

Speaker 5 Toxic masculinity and white racism are the twin perils we face. Those, that's passive aggression.
That's hate posing as concern.

Speaker 5 If you tell white men that the biggest problems are toxic masculinity and white racism, what you're really saying is you're the biggest problem. We hate you.

Speaker 5 And everything our leaders have done has proven that they hate young white men. Everything.

Speaker 5 From the drugs they prescribe to the fake conditions like ADHD that they make up out of thin air in order to anesthetize boys.

Speaker 5 Everything about it, it is an organized conspiracy, conscious or not. It's effectively a conspiracy.
I don't need to know whether you planned it to know it was a conspiracy.

Speaker 5 You did this and you achieved this result. That's all I need to know.
And they did it. And young men know it.
They know it. And why wouldn't they be mad? I'm mad just thinking about it.

Speaker 5 And I'm 50. I don't know how fucking old I am, 56.
So I'm like, I'm 30 years older than Nick Fuentes. And I, because

Speaker 5 I care about America and care about people in general and hate to see mistreatment and cruelty of the weak.

Speaker 5 I'm outraged by that. Just on principle, I hate that.
It's exactly what I hate. Pissing on weak people.

Speaker 5 It's why I hated using fire hoses on protesters in Birmingham in 1956. And it's why I hate the toxic masculinity, white racism lie of 2021.
It's all the same.

Speaker 5 And so I am sympathetic to that because it's true. It's provably true.

Speaker 5 And so my feeling was, I'm going to immediately say, I'm totally against Jew hatred. It's anti-Christian.
And I said that. And he's like, you're right.
Okay. Now tell me what you think.

Speaker 5 Again, my conscience is clear. I'm glad I did that interview.

Speaker 6 Have you guys spoken since then?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 No? No.

Speaker 5 No, and I, and he, someone, a reporter just texted me from some

Speaker 5 New York Times or Politico

Speaker 5 and said that he's starting a PAC, a political action committee

Speaker 5 in the next political cycle, 2026, to

Speaker 5 hold politicians accountable. I've never, this is the first I've heard of it.
I know nothing about it. I'm not involved in politics on that level, but

Speaker 5 and I don't know if that's good or bad, but in general,

Speaker 5 I think it's very good, in fact, necessary to force leaders to do what they say they're going to do. Otherwise, come on, dude, we're moving toward

Speaker 5 one of two endpoints. One is a totalitarian society where you just don't have the option of disagreeing.

Speaker 5 You have to obey because you've got programmable digital currency and universal surveillance, and you just have to do what they say, or they'll starve you to death.

Speaker 6 It's not going to work here.

Speaker 5 I hope it. I pray it doesn't.

Speaker 5 Or we're going to have a revolution. It's one of the two.
We're getting totalitarian government or revolution. It's not going to work for a little bit, and then it's not going to work.

Speaker 5 I pray you're right. I'm a gold buyer on that basis, an ammo buyer.
But again, I have no track record of seeing the future, but

Speaker 5 I'm convinced that the current course won't work because it's a lie. If you tell people they own the government, they're in charge, they rule through the representatives in this Democratic Republic.

Speaker 5 That's what we've told. That's our system.

Speaker 5 Has been for 250 years. If you tell them that's the system

Speaker 5 and you don't deliver on it, they go crazy. They go totally crazy.
If you tell them, and by the way, I've spent a lot of time in the world.

Speaker 6 What What do you think happens when a government takes everybody's currency in a country that has more fucking guns and ammunition than anywhere else in the entire world?

Speaker 5 I mean, I'm, as I've said a million times.

Speaker 6 It works for a little bit. And then when the desperation kicks in, that shit doesn't fucking work anymore.

Speaker 5 Well, so that's exactly, we're saying the same thing. It's we're moving toward totalitarianism or revolution, violent revolution.

Speaker 5 By the way, if you tell people they can't say what they think and their vote doesn't matter,

Speaker 5 how many options have you left for them? Just one. Violence.
Very fucking many. That's right.
So don't do that. Don't do that.
It's much better to give a little.

Speaker 5 And you do this with your kids, you know, especially when they become teenagers. You reach a point where it's like, hmm, you can smell the defiance on them.
How do I handle this?

Speaker 5 Just punch them in the face, cut them off, starve them out?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 You know, you listen, you make it clear that you're in charge, you'll be deciding, but you take their position into consideration because you have to, because they're becoming adults.

Speaker 5 You have to be a little flexible. No, you can't smoke weed at the breakfast table.
Like, there's some things you will never accept,

Speaker 5 but you can't ignore every single signal you're getting from your children. Well, your population's very similar.

Speaker 6 I'm getting really angry right now. Why? I think we should go.
Uh, I think we should go out back and blow some shit.

Speaker 5 Sorry.

Speaker 6 All right, Tucker, we're back from the break.

Speaker 6 Nice shot, by the way.

Speaker 6 And we figured out how to run an excavator about

Speaker 5 50%.

Speaker 5 I was standing back. You can't start that without a key.

Speaker 5 You did.

Speaker 6 But,

Speaker 5 oh, man, we're, I'm just going to be. I know,

Speaker 5 it got pretty deep there. Well, I was musing, as is my habit, and you said, this is so fucking dark, I have to get out of here and shoot a firearm.
That's where we were.

Speaker 6 The hair on the back of my neck was starting to. I just wanted to, yeah, I just wanted to restate.

Speaker 5 Restate, I feel totally cheerful

Speaker 5 because once you see things in their full perspective, it's not scary.

Speaker 5 It's exactly what we were told. We just didn't believe it.
And now that we do believe it, it's great. It's fine, actually.

Speaker 6 Yeah, that's, that's,

Speaker 6 I'm not there yet.

Speaker 6 But maybe one day.

Speaker 5 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 6 Where do we go from here? So.

Speaker 5 What's always darkest before it's completely black, as you know.

Speaker 5 Sorry, I'm stealing someone else's line, but I do like that line.

Speaker 5 I don't know. I mean, I...
Clearly, we're, I mean, just in political terms, we're at the end of something and the beginning of something new.

Speaker 5 And no one wants change. I don't, but we're not in in control.
And the current system clearly doesn't match the moment at all. And so it's changing.

Speaker 5 And it'll change along probably predictable lines, but also in some unpredictable ways.

Speaker 5 But

Speaker 5 I'm for democracy. Most people are not.
The overall majority of people don't want democracy. They just don't want it.
They don't like it. It's tedious and annoying and too imperfect.
And they want...

Speaker 5 results. And

Speaker 5 so we're moving towards something that is not what we had before.

Speaker 5 And,

Speaker 5 you know, I'm not in favor of that. I wish we could return to 1985, but we can't.
So.

Speaker 5 But you have to just reduce the amount of lying. Like, lying is bad.
Lying is bad. It alienates you from other people.
It aliens their leaders from their people they lead. Everything about it is bad.

Speaker 5 Just no more. Let's just stop lying.

Speaker 6 That'd be great. I don't know how the fuck you're going to get anybody to stop lying.

Speaker 5 By calling out the liars.

Speaker 6 But, well, yeah.

Speaker 6 You know, we were talking about impact earlier, and, you know, one of the things that I want to chat with you about, I don't know how to bring it up organically, so I'm just fucking bringing it up.

Speaker 6 This is something that's the most important issue to me, and that is

Speaker 6 sex trafficking, sex exploitation, and all that shit that is going on in this country. And, and, um, you know,

Speaker 6 I think it was, I can't remember if I was

Speaker 6 telling you about my really good friend Ryan Montgomery on camera, off-camera, whatever. But

Speaker 6 that, you know, I talked about all the impact that we thought we would have that we didn't fucking do anything on.

Speaker 6 But that is one, that is one that it's like, it seems to be the forbidden topic that everybody's fucking scared to talk about, legitimately scared to talk about, except for a few.

Speaker 6 And that's, you know, the problem with sex trafficking and sex exploitation in this fucking country. And

Speaker 6 as far as an impact,

Speaker 6 I think that is the biggest impact that I've ever made and probably ever will make.

Speaker 6 Because, you know, what we did with Ryan was, I mean, he made it, you hear about this stuff all the time, right? And

Speaker 6 it's hard to believe, you know, how prevalent it actually is. And he proved it, you know, on the show.
I had him open his laptop and I said, just get in any, I don't care what it is.

Speaker 6 I just want to see how long this takes. I'll sit here for two days if I have to.

Speaker 6 Five seconds. And I had him screen record it so that we could prove it.

Speaker 6 And so I just had him, anyways, the impact that was made, I think

Speaker 6 I know for a fact, we scared the shit out of a lot of pedophiles. We educated a

Speaker 6 ton of, I mean, the interview has 10 million views. And then with the clips and everything else, it's hundreds of millions of views.
And we educated on parents on how

Speaker 6 predators are targeting their kids. We educated kids on how predators are targeting them.
And so, anyways, I think it was a huge win

Speaker 6 for kids. And so I brought him back on

Speaker 6 last week. He's releasing this week.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 he came on to talk about this satanic cult.

Speaker 6 764. Have you heard of this? No.
Holy shit, dude. Like,

Speaker 6 so this is, this is an online cult, and they hang out in,

Speaker 6 they hang out in, you know, online, they hang out in, there's a game that all the kids are playing nowadays called

Speaker 6 Roblox. Sounds like Roblox, but people know what I'm talking about.
Roblox. And Minecraft.
And they're, they're fucking everywhere. They're on Xbox.
They're on PlayStation. They're on computer games.

Speaker 6 They're on chat rooms. They're on social media.
They're on everything. And what they do is they, they target primarily young women, teenage women and below, the girls.
And

Speaker 6 they might

Speaker 6 have them do something for a

Speaker 6 sexually exploit them for a fucking Louis Vuitton purse or something like that. And then...

Speaker 6 You know, then they have the photos and then

Speaker 6 they keep in touch and they call them back with these groups of people with the photos and say they're going to release this.

Speaker 6 And they're having these girls carve

Speaker 6 slut

Speaker 6 into their arms with razor blades. They've had people, they have gone so far now, and this is spreading like wildfire.
They had one girl swallow the razor blades after she carved slut into her flesh.

Speaker 6 And they had another girl kill herself.

Speaker 6 And,

Speaker 6 you know,

Speaker 6 that's what I want to go after now is because that's that's a there's an impact that you can have where you don't have to have to wait on some

Speaker 6 political prostitute to introduce a fucking bill into Congress or the Senate, and

Speaker 6 you're actually going to save somebody's fucking life or save somebody from being sexually exploited or trafficked or you know all of the above. But

Speaker 6 but um

Speaker 6 man, that stuff's like it's just so alarming and

Speaker 6 so disgusting. And

Speaker 6 are you tracking any of this shit?

Speaker 5 Well, yeah. I mean, there's,

Speaker 5 I would just,

Speaker 5 yeah, yes. And I just had an interview, which hasn't aired yet, but with your friend John Rich about this topic this week.

Speaker 5 We went pheasant hunting together in South Dakota and did it there and

Speaker 5 talked a lot about it for three days.

Speaker 5 I would just say two things. One, I don't think, and what you just told me confirms,

Speaker 5 gives further evidence to what I believe, which is sex trafficking is not primarily about sex.

Speaker 5 It's about defiling innocence.

Speaker 5 Sex is hot girl want to sleep with her. This is not that.
This is, and child molestation and all these

Speaker 5 carving slut, having a girl carve slut into her arm. what's the benefit to you? Well, there's none.

Speaker 5 What you're doing is defiling innocence. It's destroying beauty.
It's making ugly something pure.

Speaker 5 It's

Speaker 5 pissing out an image of God is actually what it is. So it's by its nature demonic.
That's what demonic is. So this is a spiritual phenomenon.
I think that I've always thought that. Like, what is that?

Speaker 5 As someone who likes sex and thinks women are beautiful and everything, what is this

Speaker 5 it's not about that it's about destroying something innocent so that makes it the most evil thing that there is and I couldn't agree with you more I also think it's way more widespread even than you described it's called only fans

Speaker 5 and I don't know why the guy who runs only fans is not in prison like right now because he's a massive contributor to all kinds of different left-wing causes

Speaker 5 But so there's that. But,

Speaker 5 you know, if you're turning like a huge percentage of America's young women into prostitutes you're a criminal and punishing you and stopping that is like top of our priority list because you can't degrade my country and turn my women into prostitutes like that cannot be allowed it's not there's no human right that says you can pimp a nation's women young women no

Speaker 5 take advantage of their misery and confusion and desperation and poverty to turn them into prostitutes. That's like, that's what an invading army does.

Speaker 5 So I'm, of course, I couldn't be more opposed to all of it, pornography, all of it. Like, I'm violently opposed to it.

Speaker 5 I guess I would just, my only concern is that we imagine as self-described satanic cults, I'm actually way less bothered by satanic cults than I am by OnlyFans, which is also a satanic cult, because at least the official satanic cults call themselves what they are.

Speaker 5 It's like nice to have the opponent identify himself,

Speaker 5 but like, what does U-porn call itself? Adult entertainment? No. I mean, what?

Speaker 5 It's, it's the same thing. And, um, and the point is the same.
It's to destroy our civilization and it's working. So, and people, because that's what a civilization is, is a collection of people.

Speaker 5 So, yeah, I'm really upset about it. And I think we should, and by the way, a lot of our leaders and institutions take money from these groups.
Like the ones that are legitimate. They're not.

Speaker 5 There's nothing more legitimate about OnlyFans than there is about a satanic cult that lures girls online into carving slut into their arms or swallowing razor blades. It's the same thing.

Speaker 6 Do you know that we're the number one consumer of kiddie porn in the world?

Speaker 6 Why do you think that law enforcement agencies and trafficking too, if I remember correctly, were the number one consumer?

Speaker 6 Why do you think that

Speaker 6 what is more precious than ours?

Speaker 5 Well, they've got real criminals, like people who march on the Capitol with pocket constitutions in their hands and stuff, the JSIC prisoners.

Speaker 5 You know, they've got like white supremacy is a bigger problem.

Speaker 5 They don't care, obviously.

Speaker 6 So here's an example.

Speaker 6 Because everybody I talk to is trying to do something. I can't find somebody that's not.
But I just had lunch, very involved with my local sheriff. Fucking love him and what he's trying to do.

Speaker 6 His name's Jeff Hughes. I was talking to him.
We had a meeting yesterday about this with a lot of his deputies and a musician who's trying to bring awareness to this whole thing.

Speaker 6 And we were chatting and I was telling him about the 764 call, which is gaining.

Speaker 6 It's getting a lot of, it's starting to get exposure.

Speaker 6 But they hadn't heard of it yet, so I'm educating him. And

Speaker 6 he started getting frustrated. And, you know, I was like,

Speaker 6 why don't you have more resources? And he's like, Sean, I'm trying to get more fucking resources. He, he said,

Speaker 6 we live in the wealthiest county in fucking Tennessee, one of the wealthiest counties in the country.

Speaker 6 And my fucking police officers are not even in the 75th percentile of what the fuck they should be making.

Speaker 6 He said, on top of that, I can't get any of these county commissioners to approve funding so that I can pay my police officers what they deserve, his deputy sheriffs, what they deserve.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 he can't get any fucking money to build

Speaker 6 a new sheriff's office to get the new tech, like that Sky Deal company that I'm talking to you, that I was talking to you about earlier. That we have one right here that patrols our fucking property.

Speaker 6 He can't get them because he's fucking commissioners.

Speaker 6 And this is

Speaker 6 this is like every county in the country.

Speaker 6 Why is nobody allocating money to police?

Speaker 5 Well, because

Speaker 5 that's the top of the priority list. I mean, if you think about it, like, what's the point of having a civilization?

Speaker 6 Who's got the priority list?

Speaker 5 Well, it's an employment agency.

Speaker 5 Look, government at all levels is primarily designed to employ people because that's what the votes are. I mean, I've seen this.
my whole life.

Speaker 5 And that's why we don't get reform is because these agencies and services are existing not for the benefit of the people who pay for them, but for the benefit of the people who are employed by them.

Speaker 6 I just want to say this is Williamson County, Tennessee.

Speaker 6 And those fucking commissioners are going to get labeled by name on this fucking show if he doesn't get that goddamn funding. Well, this is how you change stuff.

Speaker 5 I fucking hate these people.

Speaker 6 I fucking hate these people.

Speaker 5 Well, that's holy rage. I love that.
But like, what's the point of any of this? It's to keep the Visigoths from raping your wife. It's to keep order.
That's it.

Speaker 5 That's the whole reason that hunter-gatherers banded together. So they don't get eaten by the neighboring tribe or the saber-toothed tiger or whatever, right?

Speaker 5 That's the core function of any government is to protect its citizens, period. Always.
Everywhere, always.

Speaker 6 When did it stop? When did it stop?

Speaker 5 It just got, I mean, just like things corrupt over time.

Speaker 5 You know,

Speaker 5 you see a ship get launched and someone breaks champagne over the bow and it slides into the ocean. And then in 20 years, it's got a rusty hull and it's scuttled.

Speaker 5 I mean, it's just the nature of things. They age and they corrupt.
Our bodies are the same way. So

Speaker 5 I don't, again, I don't think we should be surprised, but it's just, you constantly have to scrape the barnacles off and make it work towards its purpose of design. Like, why do we have this?

Speaker 5 Well, it's to protect us first. Protect us first

Speaker 5 to enforce the laws that we agreed on and passed by popular consent. And if you can't do that, then you're just not legitimate.

Speaker 5 Then you're here for some other reason, mostly your own enrichment, and we're going to try to overthrow you. I think that's fair.
I mean, what a dereliction of duty.

Speaker 5 That's why only a private equity wife could support, only someone totally insulated from reality, physical reality, could ever support defunding the police. Making the police better? Sure, of course.

Speaker 5 Always.

Speaker 5 Defunding them? Then what are we here for? To pay teachers' pensions, their full dental?

Speaker 5 It's just insane. We've just gotten so far from what,

Speaker 5 you know, the core purpose of everything is that people are just at sea. But can I say one thing again? I do think under pressure, a lot of people greatly improve.
They get clarity under pressure.

Speaker 5 It's kind of like when you're on vacation for too long. If you've ever done the pina colada for breakfast thing for a week, you just kind of lose track of like what you're doing, right?

Speaker 5 But when you've got a job to do and you're getting up with the sun and like

Speaker 5 you're on it, there's no question about what you're do your your freaking job yeah and that's just the nature of people if if they're not under some kind of stress then they lose track of their purpose and you wind up not having police you know what i mean

Speaker 5 i think isn't that right yeah i just

Speaker 6 i just i just i just i just don't understand how this shit can keep getting swept under the rub over and over and over again.

Speaker 5 Because there's a lot of corruption, especially at the local level. I mean, you all think that everyone thinks the corruption is in Congress.

Speaker 5 Actually, no, it's in the county supervisors, the code enforcement people. Like, that's the, you know, that's the kind of, that's the corruption that affects your life.

Speaker 5 I lived in a corrupt city most of my life, Washington, D.C.

Speaker 5 And we just ended up participating in it. And like, if we ever needed something in government, we'd just bribe somebody.

Speaker 5 And D.C. was great because there were, there were no pretenses at all.
No one would ever lecture you about good government. They were just like, oh, okay.
And you just get whatever you want.

Speaker 5 You know, you could just like live a a normal life there if you paid for it. It wasn't even that expensive.
You just had to like pay the bribe.

Speaker 5 But places like this are not like that. Like the corruption is way more subtle and hard to uproot, I think.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's developers.

Speaker 5 Well, it's always developers. And can I just say a word about that? Is there anyone who makes your life worse than a developer?

Speaker 5 For a smaller benefit to a tinier group of people, like who actually benefits from more dollar stores?

Speaker 5 The people who built the dollar stores. That's who benefits.

Speaker 5 And I don't know why they get to like wreck our landscape and destroy our country, build shitty buildings, make everything ugly, desecrate God's creation, and no one says anything about it.

Speaker 5 And in the Republican Party, which is almost to the point where it's just useless, and I'm going to have to oppose it

Speaker 5 because they're just, I hate them too much, but because they're such betrayers. But anyway, in the Republican Party, it's like, you a socialist? Are you you from Mondani?

Speaker 5 No, not really a socialist. Just, I don't want any more dollar stores.
I don't want high-density housing in my neighborhood. I don't want any more fucking strip malls that nobody goes to.

Speaker 5 No more karate studios and vape shops. Like, how about no?

Speaker 5 Oh, you socialists? You don't believe in the free market? Because you bribed a fucking county commissioner to build more garbage?

Speaker 5 You don't even live here?

Speaker 5 In a normal society, we'd like burn your strip mall down.

Speaker 5 You can't do that here. You can't turn my women into prostitutes.
Sorry, OnlyFans. And you can't destroy the landscape that I live in.
No. How about no? That's not crazy, is it?

Speaker 6 No, it's not. I mean, no.

Speaker 5 And you can't take all my tax dollars and then stop, refuse to do anything about child molestation.

Speaker 5 Like the whole reason we, you exist, county commissioners, is to protect my daughters from getting molested, but you won't because like why?

Speaker 6 What do you think the Republican Party is going to turn into after this?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I mean, of course, you know, it's the party.
Well, it's the party in power right now. It's an amazing amount of power and amount of money.
And there's a lot at stake.

Speaker 5 I mean, we shouldn't underestimate just how powerful a political party is. You can be against political parties, but they run America.
So, okay, there's that. So maybe you shouldn't ignore them.

Speaker 5 Maybe you should engage. I don't want to because I dislike them too much and I dislike the people, but I'm glad that there are some people fighting for the soul of the party, whatever that means.

Speaker 5 Well, I know what it means. It means restating out loud why we're here.
And we're here to make the country better for the people who live in it.

Speaker 5 Not for a foreign country, whatever that country is, and not for your donors, but for most people or everybody.

Speaker 5 Kind of try at least a little bit.

Speaker 5 And that is the argument right now. Does the Republican Party exist to help its voters, every voter, actually, every citizen?

Speaker 5 Or does it exist for some other boutique, corrupt reason, like serving a foreign government, serving your donors? And I just do think that's the argument.

Speaker 5 I think that's the argument that Trump started when he ran in 2015.

Speaker 5 It was not about make America great again, which everyone is for, who wouldn't be for that. It's about America first, which is the idea behind MAGA.
America first. Just put your country first.

Speaker 5 If you're its leader,

Speaker 5 you don't have to put America first. You're just a citizen.
But if you're running the country,

Speaker 5 you have a moral obligation to put its citizens before all others. It's not a controversial idea.
It's the only idea.

Speaker 5 But there are an awful lot of Republican leaders. Every Republican voter pretty much agrees with that.

Speaker 5 But Republican leaders are, and not just elected leaders, but though certainly them, but like the whole constellation of nonprofits and publications and we're conservative and like,

Speaker 5 okay, you can call yourself whatever you want, but what do you, what does that mean? And now we're getting to the definitional part of the argument. What are you talking about?

Speaker 5 Make America great again. How? What are your priorities? Shut up.

Speaker 5 And they're screaming because they've been exposed as liars. And everybody knows they're liars.
And by the way, that's the Fuentes. That's the actual Fuentes message.
I'm not an expert on Fuentes.

Speaker 5 Okay. I interviewed him.
But from what I could tell,

Speaker 5 he is angry because he feels that the conservative establishment, you know, Ben Shapiro all the way up to

Speaker 5 some idiot Republican senator, all of them are telling the same lie. We're on your side, but they're not.

Speaker 5 That is, there's nothing more legitimate than that. That is true.
I would know.

Speaker 5 I've been involved for 40 years. I know every single person.
That's true. They're corrupt.
They don't care that much or enough or at all about you.

Speaker 5 And they have an obligation to.

Speaker 5 So that's the debate underway.

Speaker 5 And everyone on the other side would love to make it about why do you hate the Jews? Well, I don't hate the Jews. It's not about the Jews, whatever that is.
It's about the country.

Speaker 5 And so I'm fervently hoping that the America First People win. I fervently am hoping.
I think they will.

Speaker 5 Have you ever been around Republican donors?

Speaker 5 Have I been around Republican donors? We probably never met a Republican donor.

Speaker 6 Oh, I'm sure I have, but I don't know.

Speaker 5 I mean.

Speaker 5 They're not all bad. Some nice people, but in general,

Speaker 5 if Trump voters knew who was paying for everything, they'd be like, wait, I have nothing in common with you at all. And now I think they're starting to figure that out.

Speaker 6 Oh, it sure seems like that. I mean, what do you think? You know, the

Speaker 6 Gen Zers are definitely not responding to the traditional bullshit. I mean,

Speaker 6 you had mentioned that they're, you know,

Speaker 6 that Nick Fuentes is, they are gravitating towards that. Then you got, you know, the other side, Mem Donnie, you know, just one mayor of New York.
I mean, what, what, in your mind,

Speaker 6 what do you think

Speaker 2 is going to be?

Speaker 6 20 years now from now? What does it look like?

Speaker 5 I mean,

Speaker 5 look,

Speaker 5 does it look the same? I feel weird speaking for people 30 years younger than me or more.

Speaker 5 What do I know? But I have actually made an intensive longitudinal good faith effort to find out because I matter. Plus, I've got a ton of kids in that age and range.

Speaker 5 And my impression right now is that, of course, they're enraged. Both sides are enraged by people serving Israel.
What?

Speaker 5 Stop with the Israels. Be quiet.
Nobody cares about Israel. Just shut up about Israel.
But I don't think it's primarily about Israel. I really don't.

Speaker 5 I don't think people care that much. I know I don't care at all about Israel.
I really think it's about economics. I really do.
I think that's what Mamdani and Fuentes have in common.

Speaker 5 And there are a bunch of people who want to pretend it's about ethnic hate. or even about foreign policy.
I don't believe that. I don't think the evidence shows that.

Speaker 5 I think what they're really mad about is the lack of opportunity, economic opportunity that they know they're facing. And then if you look at the debt loads, that's what I look at.

Speaker 5 Like, how indebted, who, how much debt does the average 30-year-old have and who does he owe it to?

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 it's overwhelming. It's like unbelievable.
I had 10 grand on a credit card once. I mean, I literally couldn't sleep over it because that was weird.

Speaker 5 You know, 25 years ago, 10 grand, I just didn't make enough money. I had to get another job.
It was fine. But debt is a huge, debt is the problem for young people.

Speaker 5 And what's so infuriating and alienating

Speaker 5 is that both parties are completely on the side of the lenders

Speaker 5 and not the debtors. And in fact, it's a symbiotic relationship.
There is no borrowing without lending and vice versa.

Speaker 5 They are engaged in this dance and ultimately one is basically exploiting the other. That's just a fact.

Speaker 5 And no one will acknowledge that. So the Democratic Democratic Party is like, well, everyone has too much student loan debt.

Speaker 5 Who's benefiting from student loan? Well, the student loan lenders are benefiting, of course, but so are the colleges. They're being subsidized for garbage.
It's garbage, right?

Speaker 5 They're getting rich from these student loans. The colleges are.
And they're administrators.

Speaker 5 And then so are the lenders. But the Democrats are like, well, so because of this, we're going to get rid of student loan debt, but taxpayers are going to pay for it.
Really?

Speaker 5 So you spend your life trying to pay your kids college tuition.

Speaker 5 It gets super expensive because the lenders and the colleges are getting rich, and then you have to pay for other people's college. Like, what?

Speaker 5 And the Republicans are just like, shut up.

Speaker 5 Pay your debts. It's your fault, which is partly true.
You accrue a lot of debt. You shouldn't have.
On the other hand, it's not just you at fault.

Speaker 5 So here's the analogy that always occurs to me that I never hear anyone use, which is drug addiction. So you've got the drug addict, and we disapprove of drug addiction.

Speaker 5 Of course we do, fucking drug addict.

Speaker 5 But ultimately, we don't punish the drug addict as harshly as we punish the person who sells in the drugs, do we? Who's worse? The addict or the dealer? Obviously the dealer. Look at the penalties.

Speaker 5 Look at the moral outrage. We matter at Pablo Escobar or some guy dying of a drug OD in Central Park.
It's not even close. Pablo Escobar is the root of the problem.

Speaker 5 He's the one getting rich from the addict's misery.

Speaker 5 Well, I have no idea why we don't assume the same posture toward debt. Yeah, the kid shouldn't have be, you know, 50 grand in hoc to a credit card company, but what about the credit card company?

Speaker 5 They have no role in this. They sent this kid a credit card offer in college when he's 23.

Speaker 5 They're letting him buy DoorDash on credit, which is very common now. Buy now, pay later.
That's debt. It's disguised.
No interest, but there are laid fees.

Speaker 5 It's debt and it's debt slavery and they're enslaved by it. But the slave master never gets blamed, only the slave? Tell me how that works.
That is is totally illegitimate. It's immoral.

Speaker 5 And it's on us as adults. I mean, I have no debt.
That's rule one. No debt.
I won't buy. I can't afford it.
I'm not buying that.

Speaker 5 Not because I'm a virtuous person, because I'm so afraid of debt, because I know that it means no freedom. I'm indebted.
I'm literally indebted. I'm not free.

Speaker 5 And no one ever says that. Anyone who says that is like, shut up, socialist.
But even the socialists aren't saying it. That's what blows my freaking mind.
That's when you know it is a real conspiracy.

Speaker 5 You talk to the DSA kids.

Speaker 5 Oh, I'm so radical i'm in dsa whites are bad i'm pro-trans that's not radical dude that's just stupid you want to challenge power why don't you criticize the banks once in a while what

Speaker 5 that all they want to talk about is race and gender where's the real power in white supremacy when whites are dying off it's not in white supremacy son it's at citibank and jp morgan do you didn't know that

Speaker 5 They themselves are tools of actual power, left and right. The right is way off into libertarian economic system.
The free market, there isn't a free market in this country, period.

Speaker 5 Hasn't been in my lifetime for sure. There definitely isn't now.
It's a monopoly economy, obviously.

Speaker 5 And then the left is way up and all this other garbage meant to divide the population against itself to keep them from challenging actual power.

Speaker 5 And I'm not for revolution, but we're going to get a revolution if we don't readjust a little bit soon.

Speaker 5 So I would say, let's hold lenders at least as accountable as we hold debtors because that's fair and obvious. And in fact, I think lenders are way more culpable than borrowers.

Speaker 5 And let's take a good look at the interest rates. No society has ever allowed usury at the scale that we do.
Oh, shut up. You can't talk about usury.
Why? Because you're benefiting from it. Fuck you.

Speaker 5 I'm not afraid of you. Like, are you?

Speaker 5 No.

Speaker 5 What's the top rate for a payday loan in the United States? I'll tell you, it's 600% annually. 600%.

Speaker 5 That's illegal. Yes.
Holy shit. And why don't we care? Because it's just black people.
It's the ghetto.

Speaker 5 It's poor people. It's not just black people.
Of course, it's literally not. But in your mind, you're like, oh, that's pathetic.
A payday loan. Okay, but that's a human being.
That's a fellow citizen.

Speaker 5 And we don't care at all. 600%?

Speaker 5 Why is that allowed? Why is it so hard to say, how about no? The same reason you can't make my daughter into a prostitute, OnlyFans, because it's disgusting.

Speaker 5 And if we can't say it's disgusting, at the very least, before we even say it's illegal, how about it's just bad? Then we've lost the most basic defense mechanism that allows any society to continue.

Speaker 5 You have to be able to say, no, that's too big a threat to us. No, Satanism is not the same as Christianity.
You can't have a Satanist,

Speaker 5 you know, crash in the state capitol or whatever they call it, shrine to Satan. We're not doing that because that's self-destruction.
That's suicide. disguised as freedom.
So

Speaker 5 anyway, we just lost the ability to recognize the true threats to ourselves and our children and our grandchildren and our nation. And one of the greatest threats, maybe

Speaker 5 you could argue it, but definitely one of the greatest threats is debt. And people are getting rich from debt.
I know them personally and so do you. We call it finance.
That's the name of it. Finance.

Speaker 5 What does finance? It means loaning money to people at interest.

Speaker 5 There's a place for that. I don't think that it's inherently evil to loan money to people.
I've loaned money to a million people personally. I never get it back, but whatever.
Anyway, the point is,

Speaker 5 it's not inherently evil, but the details matter. At what rate? Who are you loaning it to?

Speaker 5 What are the terms?

Speaker 5 There has to be some boundary or else it's just pure exploitation of your fellow human beings, your fellow citizens. And rather than rein it in, we celebrate the people who do it.

Speaker 5 And we wind up with the entire economy is based on what? Finance and real estate. And neither one is a productive industry.
One is loaning money at interest and the other is just reselling dirt.

Speaker 5 Okay, that is not going to last. That's not.
And then tech. You know, I complain about tech a lot.
I don't, you know, I'm worried about the implications of emerging technologies.

Speaker 5 You know, obviously I've talked about it a lot.

Speaker 5 But the idea of tech, building something new, creating something, of course,

Speaker 5 that's what we're supposed to do as people, make something new. So that's like inherently more legitimate.
Real estate and finance are components of a healthy economy.

Speaker 5 If you find that they are the economy, you're going to get what you deserve, dude. And nobody is saying that.
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 Well, I do know why, because the real estate and finance lobbies are way more powerful than the normal person lobby, which doesn't exist.

Speaker 5 But young people, anyway, I'm far afield, but the point is young people

Speaker 5 are being destroyed economically and they have no opportunity.

Speaker 5 They're being disrespected and lectured and given a whole pharmacopia of every kind of drug to keep them passive so they don't foment a revolution, so they stay in their little cages,

Speaker 5 which is sinister, it's lethal, it's homicidal, actually, it kills the spirit at very least, but not just that, they can't own anything.

Speaker 5 And the idea that you're going to roll out with a straight face a 50-year mortgage, which is literally the opposite

Speaker 5 of what we need, who benefits from a 50-year mortgage? Well, the guy collecting 50 years of interest,

Speaker 5 who loses in that deal? The guy who doesn't own his house. He's a renter for 50 years.

Speaker 6 I don't know, man.

Speaker 6 I'm probably way off because everybody I respect thinks that that is a fucking horrible idea. 50-year mortgage? I think it's a good idea.

Speaker 5 How?

Speaker 6 Because I don't know anybody that has held onto their home for 30 years and paid it all down. I think that

Speaker 6 let's this county, for example. Real estate prices have gone through the fucking roof.
A lot of people can't afford to live here anymore.

Speaker 6 I think that you can build wealth through real estate.

Speaker 6 I think you could use the 50-year mortgage to get yourself in to

Speaker 6 a market that's appreciating at a rapid pace. Start to build your wealth, sell that, take the equity with you and build it that way.

Speaker 5 There is no question you could do that.

Speaker 6 But that's just how I think.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 6 I think it's a good thing that 50-year mortgages are here because it gets the payment down. It gets people to be able to afford a home.

Speaker 6 Yeah, if they pay it for 50 years, they're going to lose their fucking ass.

Speaker 6 But if they play their cards right and they actually study, you know, and they if they play their cards right, then they can get in, they can gain the equity, they'll gain a lot more equity in certain markets than they will pay in interest, and then they can get the fuck out and roll that into something else that's actually affected.

Speaker 5 There's absolutely no question that

Speaker 6 people

Speaker 6 can

Speaker 5 parlay credit into real money there's no doubt about that and i know a million people who've done it and every real estate investor does that that's what they do

Speaker 5 um and they're good at it i would just say two things that make me concerned very concerned about it one is

Speaker 5 that's a very sophisticated game actually

Speaker 5 it is

Speaker 5 um to be you know to take leverage and turn it into actual wealth like you you got to know what you're doing It's beyond my reach mentally. I'm not smart enough to do that.

Speaker 5 I'd be afraid to play with that. A.
B, I think the value of a home is the ownership of it. Like, that's why it's better than renting

Speaker 5 because of the psychological rewards and because it reorients your thinking toward

Speaker 5 permanence. And, like, I own a piece of this.
Like, owning a piece of dirt is just psychologically a completely different experience

Speaker 5 than

Speaker 5 not owning it. It vests you in the country.
You have something to defend. This is mine.
It's not much, but I own it. You can't take it away from me and I will take a stand on its behalf.
Okay.

Speaker 5 And I know in my own life, so I,

Speaker 5 I don't think, I didn't own a home, actually own a home. I bought a house at like 24, 23, 24, because it was a different world.
Bought a super cheap house on credit with a mortgage.

Speaker 5 And I've owned houses ever since then. So like a a long time over 35, 30, 35 years.
But

Speaker 5 I didn't actually own a house until I was like in my late 40s and I signed a new deal with Fox. And I was like, I'm going to pay off the mortgage.

Speaker 5 And I called my smartest friend who's like, that's so stupid. You know, the tax advantages in mortgage interest.
Of course, I knew that because I had a mortgage my whole life.

Speaker 5 And I was like, I don't care. So you're going to lose $50,000 a year just by owning it.
And I was like, so that means the system is set up to penalize me for not being in debt?

Speaker 5 I have to pay for the privilege of not being in debt to a bank. Who's writing these laws? The banks.

Speaker 5 But I did it anyway

Speaker 5 because I'm a lunatic and I'm like, I don't care. All I care about is the psychological benefit.
And the psychological benefit was so much more profound than I ever anticipated to owning the house.

Speaker 5 Even though I still had steep property taxes, you don't own anything in this country because you always owe somebody something. And if you stop paying them, they take it away from you.

Speaker 5 So that's not actual ownership. But it was a lot closer to ownership.

Speaker 5 And oh my gosh, I was just like, that's when I really went crazy when I owned it. I was like, come and take it, bitch.

Speaker 6 I'd pay 50 grand just for the peace of mind.

Speaker 5 100%.

Speaker 5 And not just the peace of mind, but like the

Speaker 5 swelling of power. I felt like this, and it was not even an impressive house, really, but I was like, this is my house.
I don't take any, I don't pay anybody.

Speaker 5 Of course, I was paying frillions in property taxes to the stupid corrupt DC government. So it was kind of a

Speaker 5 fake, it was a facade, but it was still real to me.

Speaker 5 I just feel like getting out of debt was the biggest psychological change that ever happened to me, really.

Speaker 5 It's like, I'm my own man. I own my house.
Maybe I think small. Okay.
That's why I'm not in business. But it made a big difference.
It was.

Speaker 5 It was.

Speaker 5 That's when I started telling the truth so much they fired me.

Speaker 5 I paid off my mortgage. It's like, yeah, I have no mortgage.
What are you going to do about it? Fire me? yeah

Speaker 6 i don't know yeah i don't know i just i

Speaker 6 i don't think it's the best answer the 50-year mortgage i didn't you know i know i'm i would rather them just lower the interest rates but what if the bottom drops out the real estate markets i mean i think long-term real estate i mean obviously that's all i do is

Speaker 5 you know i i like real estate so i buy real estate but

Speaker 5 you know it's cyclical so like there are times when

Speaker 5 you know what you thought it just happened to me actually

Speaker 5 um on something

Speaker 5 but anyway in the last year uh yeah the value goes down sometimes it's not just up so like if you've got a 50-year note like

Speaker 5 i don't know you could be more underwater than we already are definitely could be

Speaker 5 yeah

Speaker 5 I mean, that's happened to me. I didn't have to sell, but I mean, I've definitely owned houses where I owed more than the house is worth.

Speaker 5 Not a great feeling.

Speaker 5 You don't really feel like this is an ownership society when you couldn't sell the house for the amount that you owe on it.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Feels a little precarious, though I will say it does drive you to work harder.

Speaker 6 That's for damn sure. Well, what do you got coming up, Tucker? I know we got we got to wrap it up soon because you got a dinner.

Speaker 6 Man, I talked too much.

Speaker 5 Are you coming up? I don't know.

Speaker 5 You know, some kind of

Speaker 5 meeting with Destiny.

Speaker 5 Well, we just did a documentary on Thomas Crookes, which I thought was really, really interesting and very unsatisfactory in the responses we got from the FBI. So I'm really concerned about the FBI.

Speaker 5 I'll just say that.

Speaker 5 Very concerned. I don't understand exactly what's going on, but I don't think anybody understands.

Speaker 5 It's concerning, and I know people who work there, and I've spoken to them, and I'm not against them, but like, what is this? And I can't get an answer.

Speaker 5 I feel the way about a number of FBI investigations in progress. Like, I don't know what this is, and I'm definitely unsettled by it a lot.

Speaker 5 I hope, you know, I hope I find out and hope everything's okay, but I'm worried about that.

Speaker 5 And we're doing, and we just commissioned another documentary.

Speaker 5 We did documentaries at Fox. And so I worked with documentary guys

Speaker 5 who specialize in making documentaries, one of whom lives here in Nashville, who worked for me for years. And we just hired him again to make documentaries.

Speaker 5 So I know a lot of people in that world, they made a million documentaries, and I love the form. I thought it was going away.
I thought no one would ever watch another documentary.

Speaker 5 Dude, are you serious? I know, I know. Well, what do I know? I mean, I'm not, I've not been good at calling changes in media.
Like, I thought the podcast was like the dumbest thing I ever heard.

Speaker 5 I told Rogan to his face, I was like, I did not think this would work, dude. Four hours of talking? Like, who would watch that?

Speaker 5 The whole world?

Speaker 5 So, but anyway, I personally thought that documentaries were a dying art. My father made a million documentaries.
I have them on film cans in my barn.

Speaker 5 So they've been around a long time, and

Speaker 5 I love making them and writing them and voicing them. And I just love the whole experience.
So we are doing, we're doing a ton of documentaries. And we're doing a multi-part documentary on

Speaker 5 the FBI and some.

Speaker 6 Is that the next one coming out? No.

Speaker 5 A bunch of different parts.

Speaker 5 commissioned it really yesterday. So that's going to be a good one.
I think it's going to be good.

Speaker 5 Not to brag, but you, I mean, the documentaries

Speaker 5 are the product of, you know, I decide what we're doing documentaries about, obviously.

Speaker 5 I'm involved in documentaries, but if I'm being honest, and the Crooks thing, I brought, I got that material on Crooks myself and brought that to our guys.

Speaker 5 But, but really, we have a couple people, a guy called Charles Cougar, Scooter Downey. I mean, these guys are like, I could never do what they do.
They're so freaking good. It's incredible.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 Charlie Cougar, especially, is like one of the most talented people I've ever, who I've worked with for 10 years at least, is one of the smartest people I've ever met, way smarter than I am.

Speaker 5 So it's such a thrill to watch that.

Speaker 6 Do you pick the subject, Matt? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 I picked the subscribe. Yeah, of course.
I picked the subject. And I used to write the documentaries.
Like when I was at Fox, I always wrote the documentary.

Speaker 5 I'm a writer, so I wrote all the documentaries, but

Speaker 5 he's so good that the Crooks documentary, which we just did, and I voiced it. You know, I do the voiceover and sit in my barn.
We have a family library in our barn. I sit in the library and voice it.

Speaker 5 And he brought it to me. We had talked a lot about it, and I brought him the material, and then he followed up on it.

Speaker 5 But he basically did the whole thing, and he wrote the whole thing, and it was like better than I could have done. And I ad-libbed like eight words that I changed.
But I mean, I read it cold.

Speaker 5 That's how good he is.

Speaker 5 So I just want to say that out loud, man. This, this guy, I said kid, he's not a kid anymore.
He's a father. but it's just incredible to watch people.
I always thought he was smart, obviously, but

Speaker 5 he's just become a true force. I don't think his name is known by anybody.
Probably doesn't want it known. I probably shouldn't have said his name, but he's an amazing person.

Speaker 5 So, and so is Scooter Downey, this other guy. So, and a wonderful guy, too.
So, yeah, I'm super psyched. It's nice.
I will say one thing about getting older.

Speaker 5 The bad part's taking a leak in the middle of the night, but the good part is

Speaker 5 you end up knowing who the good people are. Like I've worked at every network.
You show up at these networks and it's like you have this big staff.

Speaker 5 You have no idea who's honest, who's a liar, who's talented, who's not, who cares, who doesn't. Like you just don't know anything.

Speaker 5 And then after a while, over years and move from this place to that place, like you really identify some of the most impressive people in the world. It's just absolutely crazy.

Speaker 5 Like the people we have working for us now.

Speaker 5 Every single person I would have stay at my house, and most of them have, and every single person I would trust with my checking account. I mean, there's every single person I believe.

Speaker 5 Every single person is a good person.

Speaker 5 It's just incredible. I hope this moment for our, for our company, Z companies, I hope it never changes because I just, I love everyone.
And we've had so much drama over all these years.

Speaker 5 And now we're to the place where like everyone is great.

Speaker 6 Well, I'm happy for him, man.

Speaker 5 Oh, dude. It's the first time.
Good for you.

Speaker 6 Good for you.

Speaker 5 Well, thank you for having me. Sorry I took for so long.
And thank you for your guns. Can we just say one last thing as a a coda?

Speaker 5 The 357 lever gun

Speaker 5 is the greatest gun ever.

Speaker 5 I mean probably not if you're fighting in Afghanistan but if you're you know shooting steel or bowling pins in your backyard there is no more fun gun than a 357 I shoot 38 out of mine because I'm cheap.

Speaker 5 That is just the greatest gun. No recoil.
Dead nuts accurate. It's a dead.
Gun to shoot. Cheap ammo.
It's real. It's not a 22.
It's like a thump. Like everything about it.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 Do you agree with that?

Speaker 6 Oh, fuck yeah. I love it.
I love it.

Speaker 5 I love it.

Speaker 6 Next time you come, we'll have some fly rods and hopefully some fish in that damn pond.

Speaker 5 Catch a largemouth on a fly rod. And if you think that fly fishing is like some fagious a feat sport with your little hatches and your number 18 midges.
I love fly fishing. Oh, dude.

Speaker 5 Throw a popper across a farm pond and a largemouth hits it or even better, a smallmouth. It's like, wah!

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Well, Tucker, thanks again, man. It's always good to see you.

Speaker 6 God bless.

Speaker 5 God bless.