#206 Timothy Alberino - Lost Chinkana City: The Greatest Discovery Since Machu Picchu

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Speaker 8 Tim Alberino, welcome to the show.

Speaker 7 Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure.

Speaker 8 I've been looking forward to this, man. Me too.
I've been following you on all your social and everything you're doing. And I don't know a lot about it.

Speaker 8 And that's why you're here because I want to learn.

Speaker 7 Well, I'm a big fan of your show. Oh, thank you.

Speaker 8 Thank you. Appreciate that.
But

Speaker 8 yeah, I just have a ton of rabbit holes to go go down today. So do it.

Speaker 8 Hope you're in for it. But all right, everybody starts off with a introduction here.

Speaker 8 So Tim Alberino, a modern-day adventurer who traded high school for the wilds of the Amazon jungle at age 18, a self-taught explorer whose curiosity led you to uncover a lost city in the Andes, an author whose books, Brightwright,

Speaker 8 and your edition of the Book of Enoch deep dive into humanity's origins and ancient mysteries.

Speaker 8 A researcher unafraid to tackle the bizarre, from the face peeler phenomenon in Peru to UFO encounters and alien abduction theories.

Speaker 8 Host of the Alberino Analysis, a platform where you unpack the unexplained from ancient megaliths to potential extraterrestrial tech.

Speaker 8 A storyteller whose experiences living with monkeys in terrapodo, studying legends of giants and exploring Nazca's

Speaker 8 tridistal mummies make you a unique voice in the world of alternative history. A husband, a father of five children, and most importantly, a Christian.

Speaker 7 That is quite the thorough introduction there. Appreciate it.

Speaker 8 Love how you met your wife, man. That was super cool to hear.

Speaker 7 Yeah, she's great.

Speaker 8 That you guys grew up together.

Speaker 7 Yep. Yeah, my father was a pastor, and we grew up.

Speaker 7 in the same church together and we we fell in love because we both had a dream and we like, I fell in love with her when I woke up from my dream, and she fell in love with me when she woke up from her dream.

Speaker 7 And then her dream actually came to fruition in Peru. Like, literally, what she saw in her dream happened.

Speaker 8 What did she see in the dream?

Speaker 7 Oh, God, you'd have to ask her. But it was, uh, we were sitting against this brick wall at nighttime, and we were in Peru, and the whole scene, she saw the whole scene,

Speaker 7 and I was in Peru with her.

Speaker 7 And we were on this trip, and I was sort of, I was sort of acting as like

Speaker 7 her tour guide. And one night I decided like I was in love with her and I decided I need to tell her.
And so I

Speaker 7 took her down the street and we sat in front of my friend's house in Peru, dirt road, brick wall.

Speaker 7 And we sat there and

Speaker 7 we talked

Speaker 7 and she was just...

Speaker 7 amazed because this literally was the scene in her dream. Wow.
And that's when we really decided we're going to get get married. Right there? Pretty much, yeah.

Speaker 8 That's awesome, man. So how long was it until you got married?

Speaker 7 Oh,

Speaker 7 I don't remember. It was not long, like months.
It was months. We actually had a secret wedding.
We had a secret wedding and then we had an official wedding. Nice.
And I wanted a braveheart wedding.

Speaker 7 That's awesome.

Speaker 7 And so... I actually, I had a cloak.

Speaker 7 My friend Jenny bought me a cloak at a Renaissance fair one time, and I actually wore this cloak in Peru.

Speaker 7 And Big Lord of the Rings fan and Chronicles of Narni, all that stuff, all those fantasy novels. And I wanted our wedding to be special and the way that we wanted it to be.

Speaker 7 I never liked traditional weddings, so we decided to get married in the woods. And I wore my cloak, and she dressed up

Speaker 7 in... a very interesting, unique outfit.
And we went into the park at night. We had a friend of ours marry us because we wanted to do that braveheart wedding.

Speaker 7 But then we did have the official wedding afterward too. And my dad officiated it, so that was really special.
Oh, that is awesome. My dad was a pastor.
So,

Speaker 7 yeah, very unusual story of how my wife and I met and she's just been phenomenal, the best wife that I could possibly have ever desired.

Speaker 8 Well, I'm happy for you guys. So you're like a modern-day Indiana Jones.

Speaker 8 It seems like to me.

Speaker 7 Well, and you know,

Speaker 8 I've doven into the UFO extraterrestrial stuff, and I don't know, man. I don't know what I think about it all, but I'm really curious.

Speaker 8 You know what I notice is a lot of these guys that are into that stuff are not Christian, and so I'm really interested in

Speaker 8 your views on all that stuff. But we'll get into that a little bit later.
Yeah, so definitely, I think you'll have a unique perspective, and I'm looking forward to hearing it.

Speaker 7 But a couple things:

Speaker 8 everybody gets a gift. Oh, great.

Speaker 7 Wow.

Speaker 8 Vigilance Elite Gummy Bears made in the USA.

Speaker 7 That's great.

Speaker 8 There's nothing weird in there other than a bunch of sugar and probably food dyes and all the shit that's bad for you.

Speaker 7 So these aren't marijuana gummies.

Speaker 8 No, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
We can't hand those out here.

Speaker 7 Well, thank you so much. You're welcome.

Speaker 8 And then

Speaker 8 we have a Patreon account.

Speaker 8 It's quite the community. They've been here since the beginning.
And so

Speaker 8 I give the opportunity for them to ask each and every guest a question. So this is from Lucinda Carey.

Speaker 8 What are your thoughts on the flood? Your thoughts on the construction as described in the Bible, how the animals traveled, and do you think the Ark is located in Turkey?

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 7 So what are my thoughts on the flood, generally speaking?

Speaker 7 It's actually a really good question because there's a lot of different opinions, scholarly opinions, in regard to the flood of Noah. Of course, you have the traditional

Speaker 7 you have the traditional narrative that most Christians subscribe to, that every square inch of planet Earth was covered in water, that the tip of Mount Everest was underwater,

Speaker 7 and that the flood was universal in that sense. Then you have a lot of scholars who subscribe to a

Speaker 7 local flood theory or regional flood theory

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 posits that the flood was localized to

Speaker 7 the ancient Near East or to the Mediterranean, that maybe the Mediterranean Sea is what flooded. And so the civilizations, the known world at the time was absolutely destroyed,

Speaker 7 was brought to ruin. in this aqueous cataclysm.
But it was localized. And

Speaker 7 there's a lot of good scholars who subscribe to the local flood, and they use the text. I mean,

Speaker 7 the support for their theory comes from the text.

Speaker 7 They use the same words that describe the flood in the Bible, and they derive a different meaning from those words. And then there's a theory that I subscribe to,

Speaker 7 which is a global cataclysm.

Speaker 7 So I believe that the entire Earth was subjected to cataclysm, but that the effect of the cataclysm was variegated depending on where you happen to be located on planet Earth. So if you were living

Speaker 7 in the coastal regions or on the bank of a river, you experienced an aqueous cataclysm. In other words, catastrophic flooding.

Speaker 7 And if you were living on the bank of the Mediterranean, catastrophic flooding. But if you were living in the mountains or a different region of the Earth, you would have experienced a cataclysm, but

Speaker 7 with different effects. I think that there was extreme volcanism.
I think that there was massive earthquakes.

Speaker 7 And I think what precipitated the flood,

Speaker 7 I'm persuaded at this point,

Speaker 7 that what precipitated the flood was a comet impact

Speaker 7 or an asteroid impact

Speaker 7 sometime around

Speaker 7 12,000 years ago,

Speaker 7 in the neighborhood of 10,000 BC.

Speaker 7 And this, of course, is known as the Junger Dreis impact hypothesis: that during the end of the last ice age, there was a cataclysmic impact on the North American ice sheets, specifically the Laurentide ice sheet, which was a mile to two miles thick,

Speaker 7 and that the ice sheet was bombarded by these celestial objects.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 catalyzed

Speaker 7 a cataclysm of unprecedented magnitude that that would have resulted in catastrophic flooding, mile-high tidal waves, extreme volcanism, everything that I mentioned previously.

Speaker 8 Does this line up with Noah when he was older?

Speaker 7 So you have, you know, within

Speaker 7 Christianity, you have different thoughts in regard to the age of the earth.

Speaker 7 The fundamentalist view is that the earth is 6,000 years old, and they don't allow for any more time in regard to the flood event.

Speaker 7 I'm not a young earth creationist. I think that the earth is very old, and I think that the creation of humanity goes deeper into the past.

Speaker 8 Really?

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 8 So, what do you think of Adam and Eve, though?

Speaker 7 I think Adam and Eve, I think Adam and Eve were real. I mean, I think we all come from a common ancestor from Adam and Eve.

Speaker 7 I do not subscribe to the theory of evolution by natural selection. I think that's a theory in crisis, by the way.
I think it's

Speaker 7 becoming less feasible by the day,

Speaker 7 evolution by natural selection.

Speaker 7 So I don't subscribe to that. I just think that the flood, that this event,

Speaker 7 which decimated, annihilated the megafauna, this was the megafaunal extinction, right? We know that that happened. We know that at one time, right here where we're sitting, there were

Speaker 7 mastodons, saber-toothed tigers, short-faced bears,

Speaker 7 giant sloths roaming this land and all over the world. And then suddenly something happened overnight

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 absolutely liquidated these creatures from the face of the earth.

Speaker 7 And again, I would, I at this point am persuaded that that was the Younger Dreist impact event.

Speaker 7 That this was, and this, by the way, in my opinion, is the cataclysm that's described in the pages of scripture, the cataclysm that we read about

Speaker 7 in Genesis, in the book of Genesis. And

Speaker 7 in the Mediterranean area, it would have manifested most prominently in catastrophic flooding. I mean, if you have a mile-high tidal wave sweeping across the ocean,

Speaker 7 whatever civilization is inhabiting the coastal regions is gone.

Speaker 7 I mean, totally,

Speaker 7 totally wiped out. I mean, there would be almost nothing left of that civilization.

Speaker 7 Those waves would be powerful enough to wash away every vestige of those civilizations, on any coastal region, even on rivers, but specifically those who are inhabiting the coastal regions.

Speaker 7 And in North America,

Speaker 7 let's assume for a moment that this is true, that the Younger-Dreis Impact Hypothesis is true, and that either...

Speaker 7 a fragment of an asteroid or fragments of an asteroid bombarded the Laurentide ice sheet.

Speaker 7 Well, you would have a a tidal wave, because a lot of that would be instantly vaporized, but it would be certainly instantly liquefied.

Speaker 7 You would have a tidal wave sweeping across the continental United States from the meltwater, from

Speaker 7 the glaciers and

Speaker 7 all of that ice. And so

Speaker 7 you would literally, it would absolutely devastate human beings everywhere on planet Earth. All of these cataclysmic events happening simultaneously.
And

Speaker 7 if it was an impact, it could also precipitate, and I think it did,

Speaker 7 what's called an impact winter,

Speaker 7 which is very much like a nuclear winter. You have the impact and you have all that debris going up into the atmosphere.
It lingers in the atmosphere. You get black rain, by the way.

Speaker 7 And there's ancient testimony of black rain in regard to this. cataclysm.
And it would block out the sun and it would create an impact winter.

Speaker 7 and it would it would the earth would be locked into a deep freeze again so and all of this seems to correlate to correspond to the younger dryas

Speaker 8 impact event do you think the ark is in turkey

Speaker 7 it very well could be i'm not sure if that particular site i don't remember the name of the site in turkey but there's i'm sure you've seen it where it looks like the shape the outline of a boat

Speaker 7 I'm not sure that that's the location of the Ark. I know some people have gone looking for the Ark at Mount Arat and different places in the Middle East.
And

Speaker 7 it wouldn't surprise me if

Speaker 7 artifacts of the Ark still remain. So, yeah, I do, by the way, subscribe to a literal Ark, a literal Noah.

Speaker 7 Right, so I certainly subscribe to all of that. I just think that the cataclysm

Speaker 7 was much more complex

Speaker 7 than

Speaker 7 we're accustomed to contemplating as Christians.

Speaker 8 Interesting.

Speaker 7 Have you ever,

Speaker 8 have you looked at this

Speaker 8 underground, I think this underground city? I think it's in Turkey. Yeah.

Speaker 8 What is that?

Speaker 7 Well, that's very interesting. You know,

Speaker 7 I don't remember the name of it, and I don't remember how deep it goes, but I've watched documentaries on it, and it's a very sophisticated, complex system of tunnels.

Speaker 7 And for whatever reason, those people decided that they needed to live underground.

Speaker 8 It's like...

Speaker 7 Which we're doing again, by the way.

Speaker 8 It's like thousands and thousands. It could hold thousands and thousands and thousands of people.
That's right.

Speaker 7 Maybe in anticipation of cataclysm.

Speaker 8 So you think they had a heads up?

Speaker 7 I do. Wow.
Okay, they've had a heads up.

Speaker 7 The ancients were tracking cataclysm because it's cyclic.

Speaker 7 This is the purpose of the zodiac. The zodiac, the purpose of the zodiac is not to figure out what your sign is and

Speaker 7 what sort of attributes that means for you this month, like we do. That's very superficial.
You don't read your horoscope? No, the horoscope is

Speaker 7 superfluous and superficial, and it's meaningless. It means nothing.
The zodiac has a much more profound meaning that we've forgotten. but that the ancients were well aware of.

Speaker 7 And this is why you find the zodiac represented everywhere, all over the earth. And it's the same, the same signs, the same 12 signs.
It's very ancient.

Speaker 7 And the zodiac,

Speaker 7 the primary function, although there's a lot, there's very complex, there's a lot that goes on with the zodiac, but the primary function of the zodiac is to calculate cyclic cataclysm.

Speaker 7 And this is based on

Speaker 7 axial precession, the precession of the equinox, and the fact that the Earth is tilted on a 23-degree angle, and

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 the position of the stars seems to change from our perspective over time. The great year is nearly 26,000 years.
It takes to complete one full wobble of the Earth.

Speaker 7 I think it's 25,920 years to complete one of these, because the Earth is, you know, it's tilted on axis and it wobbles like a top, like a spinning top. But it wobbles at a very, very slow rate.

Speaker 7 And it takes a long time to complete that circuit. And that's known as the great year.
And

Speaker 7 that is fundamentally what the zodiac is tracking, because the zodiac is divided into 12 houses. Each house has a particular sign associated with it.

Speaker 7 And each sign represents an age, an astrological age,

Speaker 7 or an astronomical age. And each age is 2,160 years.
And there's 12 of them. And so when we talk about, you know, the different ages, and let's go back to the biblical narrative here.

Speaker 7 When in the Bible you read that Jesus talks about the end of the age,

Speaker 7 and his disciples talk about the end of the age, well, there's two things going on there.

Speaker 7 There's the astronomical age that is the age of Christ, which is Pisces. Pisces is the fish, right?

Speaker 7 The sign of Pisces is a fish. And the sign of Christ in the early church was the fish and of the Christian community.

Speaker 7 And we're still in the age of Pisces, and we're transitioning into the age of Aquarius. And

Speaker 7 these ages are calculated on the vernal equinox.

Speaker 7 So, like on March 21st, if you look due east, on March 21st, just before the sun rises, you're going to see a particular zodiacal constellation sitting on the horizon.

Speaker 7 And the sun is rising up into this constellation.

Speaker 7 And if it's the vernal equinox, you can know what age you're in, what

Speaker 7 astrological age you're in,

Speaker 7 because whatever that constellation is on the horizon on the vernal equinox that the sun is rising into, that tells you the age.

Speaker 8 So, what happens at the new age?

Speaker 7 So,

Speaker 7 there's that, that's an age. So, those are astrological ages, each one of the houses of the zodiac.
And then you have groupings of them. So, you have

Speaker 7 the fixed points of the zodiac,

Speaker 7 which are Aquarius, Scorpio, Leo, and Taurus.

Speaker 7 And in between these fixed cardinal points, right, you have

Speaker 7 three houses of the zodiac, three ages.

Speaker 7 And the ancients knew that the cataclysm was cyclic.

Speaker 7 And when you transition,

Speaker 7 and the grouping of these three astrological ages is called an aeon.

Speaker 7 This is what the Greeks referred to as an aeon.

Speaker 7 And when you transition from one aeon to the next, and an Aeon has a duration of 6,480 years, when you transition from one aeon to the next, it's cataclysmic.

Speaker 7 That transition is cataclysmic. And they knew it because it's cyclic.

Speaker 8 What do you mean? What is cyclic?

Speaker 7 It means it happens like clockwork. I mean, that's what the zodiac is.
It's a clock.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 they're tracking the, I mean,

Speaker 7 if you knew that cataclysm was cyclic,

Speaker 7 you would be tracking when it's coming, right? I mean, what else would be more important than that?

Speaker 7 That would be the most important thing to keep track of, is where are we on this cataclysmic time clock? Because these cataclysms are civilization-ending events.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 every primary ancient civilization on Earth has a record of cataclysm. They all...
They all, I call it the tombstone in the timeline of history.

Speaker 7 They all recognize, acknowledge, and record this event that happened, this cataclysmic event that brought to ruin the old world, the antediluvian world, which they considered to be superior, that the civilizations that existed in the antediluvian world in the minds of the ancients were superior to their own civilizations, including, this includes the ancient Egyptians.

Speaker 7 They believed that the civilization that existed in the world previous to the cataclysm, to the last cataclysm, was far superior to their own.

Speaker 7 Do you believe that? I do. This is a time that the ancient Egyptians referred to as Zeptepi, the first time.
And it's known by the Greeks as the Golden Age.

Speaker 7 This is that period of time when the gods descended to the earth. They cohabitated with

Speaker 7 human beings. They copulated with human women and they progenerated a race of hybrid giants, demigods in the earth.
That general narrative is ubiquitous. It's universal on planet Earth.

Speaker 7 Every major primary ancient civilization has a myth, a legend

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 records that event. Now the Egyptians, if you'll recall that

Speaker 7 in Plato's Critias and

Speaker 7 dialogue, in his Critius and Timaeus dialogue,

Speaker 7 that he has Solon of Athens visiting the priests of Syce in Egypt. And this is where we get the Atlantean story from.
This is where the narrative of Atlantis comes from.

Speaker 7 And the Egyptian priests are informing Solon

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 they tell him basically that the Greeks think that they have ancient knowledge, but their knowledge really isn't hoary with age, as they put it.

Speaker 7 That the Egyptians are tracking information going much deeper into the past.

Speaker 7 And they inform him that there was a cataclysm that brought ruin to the world and that the Greeks knew about that cataclysm, but that there were other cataclysms previous to that cataclysm.

Speaker 7 So the Egyptians were tracking a cyclic cataclysmic event.

Speaker 7 And in fact, in Dendera, in the Temple of Hathor, there used to be a, now it's in a museum in France, there used to be a depiction, the earliest one we have, of the zodiac on the ceiling of the temple.

Speaker 7 And it's exactly the same signs of the zodiac that we have today. The ancient Egyptians were calculating cyclic cataclysm.

Speaker 7 And they knew that at the transition from one aeon to the next, that transition was cataclysmic.

Speaker 7 And we are transitioning from one aeon into another. We are in the age of Pisces transitioning into Aquarius.

Speaker 7 This is the end of one aeon and the beginning of another.

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Speaker 7 And the ancients knew that when you're in this period of time,

Speaker 7 this cataclysmic transition, there's a sign that indicates that you're there. It's called the sign of the Suntelia.

Speaker 7 And a Suntelia is a thousand-year period of transition between one Aeon and the next. And when you're in this thousand-year period, cataclysm could befall in this window of time.

Speaker 7 And there's something called the sign of the Suntelia.

Speaker 7 And the sign of the Suntelia is if you're in this window of time and you're living somewhere in the ancient Near East, and generally speaking in the Mediterranean area,

Speaker 7 and you,

Speaker 7 on an equinox or a solstice, you will see

Speaker 7 the Milky Way, which the ancients considered to be the Milky Sea, right? The cosmic sea will be... encircling the Earth.

Speaker 7 So you look to the horizon, your 360 view, you'll see the Milky Way, the cosmic sea, sitting on the horizon, encircling the Earth. That's called the sign of the Suntelia.

Speaker 7 And if that's happening in your time, then you know you are within that thousand-year transitional period from one aeon to the next, during which time cataclysm is coming.

Speaker 7 And again,

Speaker 7 and again, the ancients knew that. So that was a long-winded explanation of why I believe that the ancients knew that cataclysm was coming and

Speaker 7 were preparing for it. So, going back to the underground dwellings,

Speaker 7 you know, what are we doing today?

Speaker 8 So, was that this Aeon or a previous one? Which one? The Turkey.

Speaker 7 I don't know.

Speaker 7 I'm not. I'm familiar with what you're referring to.
I've seen documentaries, but I don't remember what the dating is on that.

Speaker 7 But I do know

Speaker 7 that today, Many of the billionaires and the elites on planet Earth are building underground bunkers.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah. Deep underground bunkers.

Speaker 7 Do they know something's coming? Are they preparing for something? That's some sort of impending cataclysm? I got a gut feeling they are. I mean, we are transitioning from

Speaker 7 to Aquarius.

Speaker 7 I think that they, that,

Speaker 7 well, this knowledge has been preserved.

Speaker 7 And it's been preserved primarily in the mystery schools.

Speaker 8 The mystery schools.

Speaker 7 Right, which is basically the occult. It's been passed on through the mystery schools and they have kept this knowledge.
But that's,

Speaker 7 see, the ancients understood, that's why they're obsessed with the stars, by the way. It wasn't just because,

Speaker 7 you know, obviously you need to know what the seasons are if you're going to know when to sow and when to harvest and

Speaker 7 make the necessary preparations for the changing of the seasons and so forth. That's very important to ancient people.

Speaker 7 So that's one of the reasons why they they were so obsessed with the stars, because they're tracking all of that. But the deeper level is because they understood that the zodiac was a timepiece

Speaker 7 and that it was calculating cyclic cataclysm.

Speaker 7 And this, by the way, a lot of this information comes from one of the most consequential books I've ever read. No, the most consequential book I've ever read in my life.

Speaker 7 It's called Sidonia, The Secret Chronicles of Mars by the late David Flynn.

Speaker 8 Mars, there's a topic.

Speaker 7 There's a topic.

Speaker 8 Yeah, there's a topic. What do you think? I mean,

Speaker 8 I don't know what to make of it.

Speaker 7 I don't think that our design. You saw the pyramid thing? Yes.
Is that real?

Speaker 7 So I believe

Speaker 8 that.

Speaker 7 I believe that

Speaker 7 the

Speaker 7 famous face on Mars, that was a big deal back in the, what was it, the late 90s, early 2000s.

Speaker 7 That area on Mars is called Sidonia.

Speaker 7 And I do believe that what we see in some of those photographs is the remains of an ancient civilization that inhabited Mars. And I absolutely believe that, let's say, there are factions

Speaker 7 on Earth, there are individuals who know that to be a fact.

Speaker 7 And I don't think that our drive

Speaker 7 which is being manifest primarily through Elon Musk, to go to Mars, to put

Speaker 7 a man on Mars, is coincidental. I think we're going to go to Mars and we're going to make

Speaker 7 a discovery of magnitudinous import on Mars, specifically

Speaker 7 in the Sidonia region, namely that there was an ancient advanced civilization inhabiting Mars.

Speaker 8 Do you think there was a civilization on Earth when there was a civilization on Mars?

Speaker 7 That's a good question.

Speaker 7 I do. I do.
You do. Yes, I do.

Speaker 8 Do you think we were communicating?

Speaker 7 I'm not sure human beings were around at that time.

Speaker 7 You know, from a biblical perspective, I would categorize that as a pre-adamic, I would put that in a pre-adamic context, and I would say that there was an angelic civilization inhabiting Mars and the Earth and perhaps the other

Speaker 7 planets in our solar system.

Speaker 7 But that would be in a pre-adamic context before the creation of Adam and that something cataclysmic happened

Speaker 7 that

Speaker 7 absolutely annihilated those civilizations, that angelic civilization, let's call it. And I think that

Speaker 7 the event that led to the destruction of the civilization on Mars

Speaker 7 was the implosion of a planet that was once in our solar system and now is the residue, the debris field

Speaker 8 between Mars and Jupiter. Implosion from another planet.

Speaker 7 Well, there's a debris field between Mars and Jupiter.

Speaker 7 And that debris field,

Speaker 7 to me, I've done a lot of research into this.

Speaker 7 I think that debris, there's a ring of debris. I think that that is the residue of a planet.

Speaker 7 And I think that, you know, you can, and I do this in my book, Birthright, you can trace in the biblical narrative,

Speaker 7 in the oracles of the Old Testament, you can trace this narrative. in which I believe there's references to this planet that was destroyed.
And it was destroyed in a great conflict that unfolded

Speaker 7 in the solar system previous to the creation of mankind.

Speaker 7 And I believe that the planet in, and I know this, if there's Christians listening to this podcast, they're going to be thinking, what in the world is he talking about?

Speaker 7 But there's a reference, there are references to Rahab.

Speaker 7 Rahab. Rahab.
And I think that this is a planet

Speaker 7 that was crushed like a vessel of clay,

Speaker 7 broken like a vessel of clay, that God crushed Rahab and he smote the dragon.

Speaker 7 And there's these very interesting veiled references in the Old Testament, quite a few of them, that, again, I believe are intimations

Speaker 7 of this

Speaker 7 cosmic conflict that erupted in the cosmos

Speaker 7 in a pre-adamic context previous to the creation of mankind. on planet Earth.

Speaker 8 What do you so if you think that the

Speaker 8 basically you think the Earth is a big cycle?

Speaker 8 So we go through these events, a civilization's wiped out, and then we start all over.

Speaker 7 We start all over like children, as the priest of Sais told Solon of Athens. We have to begin again as children.

Speaker 7 And by the way.

Speaker 8 And some of this stuff that we're finding here on Earth is remnants of

Speaker 7 previous. Potentially.
So I think, and

Speaker 7 to sum this up, I think that

Speaker 7 this planet Rahab, again, that once existed between Mars and Jupiter, imploded or exploded.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 the argument, the scientific argument against this is that

Speaker 7 there's not enough residue there. There's not enough debris to account for a planet.
But there's been some papers published recently.

Speaker 7 Well, there's, okay, that's possible. There's been some papers published recently that make the argument, and I can't reference those papers exactly right now, I don't recall the titles of them,

Speaker 7 that do make the argument that there is enough debris there because a lot of it would have been instantly vaporized.

Speaker 7 Most of the mass, according to this paper I read, most of the mass of a planet, if a planet explodes,

Speaker 7 that's an unimaginable

Speaker 7 force. That's an unimaginable explosion, the explosion of a planet.

Speaker 7 The heat that would be generated, the energy would vaporize most of the matter. And then it could throw off far into outer space, you know, huge chunks that go way out there.

Speaker 7 Maybe some of those got caught in the orbit of the sun and are slingshotting around the sun. And maybe when they, and this is just a hypothesis.
Yeah. And maybe when these

Speaker 7 fragments of this planet come back into our solar system, in the neighborhood of the planets in our solar system, it wreaks havoc on Earth.

Speaker 7 And if, let's say, there's a chunk of this planet Rahab

Speaker 7 that's basically like a gigantic asteroid now,

Speaker 7 and it's slingshotting around the sun every 6,480 years, right? Maybe this is what's being tracked by the zodiac, and maybe it has a debris field behind it, right?

Speaker 7 Like asteroids have big debris fields behind them, and the Earth potentially passes through that debris field.

Speaker 7 We intersect with this body moving through our solar system.

Speaker 7 We pass through the debris field, and we get bombarded um the debris which you know the younger dreist impact for example could be could have resulted from this that's just a hypothesis i've just thrown it out there you had you had mentioned earlier you think you know all these billionaires are building these underground bunkers and they have yes access access i know it's a fact yep but but the

Speaker 8 but that they have access to all this ancient knowledge through the through what the occult through the mystery schools i mean so i mean at at what point do you just get introduced like, oh, hey, you made it.

Speaker 8 Here's the, here's the

Speaker 8 mystery schools.

Speaker 8 You might want to build a bunker.

Speaker 7 That's a good question. That's a very good question.

Speaker 8 Have you thought about that?

Speaker 7 Yeah, I don't know the answer.

Speaker 8 What is the occult?

Speaker 8 I'm new to all of this.

Speaker 7 Okay, so, well, the occult is a very general term. You know, the occult can encompass, you know, your everyday Satanist.

Speaker 8 That's kind of what I thought I was.

Speaker 7 Yeah, the occult is a very broad term. The mystery schools are a little more specific.
The mystery schools go back to the ancient times. And the function of the mystery school, fundamentally,

Speaker 7 is to preserve the knowledge of the antediluvian world.

Speaker 7 And more specifically, to preserve the knowledge that was transmitted to mankind by the gods who descended in the golden age.

Speaker 7 That is the purpose of the mystery schools. And there's various mystery schools around the world, but...

Speaker 8 What are they?

Speaker 7 Well, you know, you have the Elysian mysteries that were the ancient Greek mysteries, you had the Egyptian mysteries, you have the modern adaptations,

Speaker 7 like you had the Knights Templar, who were to some extent a mystery school. But then you had the Masons,

Speaker 7 the Freemasons, Freemasonry.

Speaker 8 Didn't the Templar turn into the Masons?

Speaker 7 The Masons preserve some of the traditions of

Speaker 7 the Templar order, yes.

Speaker 7 There's modifications,

Speaker 7 but fundamentally,

Speaker 7 let's say the pillars of masonry do come from, to some extent, from the Knights Templar.

Speaker 7 And so you have different variations of mystery schools. You know, this is the, you know, the

Speaker 7 Illuminati, right? That would be

Speaker 7 one faction of the mystery schools, or maybe a term that encompasses them all.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 again,

Speaker 7 the primary purpose of the mystery schools is to preserve the knowledge that was transmitted by

Speaker 7 the gods to mankind in the antediluvian world before the cataclysm. The knowledge that was transmitted to mankind during the Golden Age, during Zeptepi the first time.

Speaker 7 And that is functional knowledge, by the way.

Speaker 7 It's not just sort of arcane

Speaker 7 mysterious knowledge that pertains to

Speaker 7 just bizarre stuff.

Speaker 7 No, we're talking about functional knowledge information that is very important that is transmitted through myths also myths transmit knowledge the wise concocted those myths the the ancient sages are

Speaker 7 they devised the myths and we're talking about the the the the the famous myths from the ancients among the greeks and the ancient egyptians and the ancient mesopotamians What we today look at as bedtime stories.

Speaker 7 What we today view as folklore. and of course historians and archaeologists and anthropologists don't really give much weight to these myths.
Oh, those are just, that's just Greek mythology.

Speaker 7 But the myths were designed, intentionally designed, to transmit information, to preserve information and transmit it through time.

Speaker 7 And it's done primarily through symbolism. Because languages change, right?

Speaker 7 Languages change, but the meaning of the symbols always remains the same.

Speaker 8 So how do you think these guys get into...

Speaker 8 How do they get the knowledge?

Speaker 7 Have you thought about the... You You mean the modern, the people who are in the

Speaker 8 bunker builders?

Speaker 7 So it's again.

Speaker 8 They could just be worried about nuclear war.

Speaker 7 There's a couple of things that's true. Yes, absolutely.
That's certainly in play. But there's a couple of ways.

Speaker 7 I mean, one, if you're a member of the mystery schools, and I'm not saying your neighborhood

Speaker 7 Freemason, you know, just your average Joe who happens to be a member of a lodge. No, you got to be way high up into these organizations before they start to transmit this information to you.

Speaker 7 Because at the lower levels of Masonry,

Speaker 7 they're not told. This comes from, by the way, Manley P.
Hall, who is one of the greatest Masonic philosophers, probably the greatest Masonic philosopher.

Speaker 7 He said that the lower levels of the Masonic order, that

Speaker 7 they give them a different meaning to the symbols. And they don't tell them the true meaning behind the rituals and the symbols.
And you don't get the true meaning until you get to the higher levels.

Speaker 7 And I think that's probably true across the board in the mystery schools.

Speaker 7 But so you can learn this in the mystery schools, or I think at this point, probably we've, let's just assume for a moment, and I don't know if it's true, okay, it's just a hypothesis, let's assume that there is a body out there in the solar system that's that that's coming back in,

Speaker 7 that's on this

Speaker 7 path around the Sun that gets

Speaker 7 slingshotted back out into outer space, comes back around every 6,480 years. Maybe we've detected it.

Speaker 7 Maybe NASA's detected it. Maybe some of our military satellites up there have detected this body that's coming into our solar system.

Speaker 7 And that, I think, would prompt

Speaker 7 the building of underground bunkers. You know, we have deep underground military bases.
I'm sure you're aware of that all over the world, but especially under the continental United States.

Speaker 7 We're talking a mile to two miles below the surface of the Earth.

Speaker 7 And it was...

Speaker 8 A mile to two miles?

Speaker 7 Below the surface of the Earth. Yes.

Speaker 8 I just watched this documentary last night about how russia dug a basically a hole they got i think 7.1 miles deep yeah and then they couldn't go anymore nobody else has done it they said that the the earth every

Speaker 8 i can't remember if it was every mile or every kilometer the earth it gets 60 degrees hotter

Speaker 7 yeah um

Speaker 7 probably

Speaker 8 it'll be like 120 degrees yeah well i'll tell you i'll tell you what happened and

Speaker 7 then the audience can draw their own conclusions. But during World War II,

Speaker 7 do you remember what one of the primary problems for Hitler was? One of the major reasons why the Nazis lost that war was because we were bombing the bejesus out of them. Yeah.

Speaker 7 I mean, the bombing of Dresden, we weren't just bombing, you know,

Speaker 7 military and industrial targets.

Speaker 7 We bombed cities, right? We firebombed cities. And

Speaker 7 the purpose behind this campaign, this bombing campaign, was to decimate Hitler's industrial base, for one thing, so that he couldn't build weapons fast enough.

Speaker 7 And so we were hitting the airfields, we were hitting the industrial plants.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 a lot of these industrial plants were located in the cities.

Speaker 7 So Hitler decided, and he did it too late. He decided that he was going to move his manufacturing to subterranean facilities.
I mean, this is logical, right?

Speaker 7 Now that's an enormous enormous undertaking to do that. You can't just move manufacturing underground on a whim.

Speaker 7 That's an enormous project, but he began to do it. And there was an organization called the TOTE Organization that was in charge of building these underground facilities.

Speaker 7 By the end of World War II, there were underground facilities. Now, they weren't a mile under the ground, but they were pretty deep.
And they were using, in some instances, slave labor to do it.

Speaker 7 And had Hitler done this earlier,

Speaker 7 we would have been in trouble because we would not have been able to disrupt the production of the armaments.

Speaker 7 And after the war,

Speaker 7 of course, there was the

Speaker 7 Operation Paperclip, in which we brought over strategic Nazi scientists from different fields, from different scientific domains.

Speaker 7 We brought them over to the United States, including guys like Werner von Braun, who became instrumental in our rocket program over here. He was working on

Speaker 7 the Vrill rockets over over

Speaker 7 for the Nazis. And we brought over various scientists and various military personnel who we thought could be useful for our endeavors here, our scientific endeavors in the United States.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 among these scientists were members of the TOTE organization.

Speaker 7 And we realized

Speaker 7 the

Speaker 7 utility of building underground facilities because we just bombed the hell out of the Germans. And we realized that warfare in the future is going to be aerial primarily.

Speaker 7 So we brought the members of the TOTE organization over here and we began to build deep underground military bases.

Speaker 7 But I believe, based on documentation,

Speaker 7 that we developed a particular kind of mining apparatus that was a nuclear,

Speaker 7 it was nuclear-powered mining machine that could bore out and liquefy rock as it moved through the rock. So it bores the rock out and it liquefies it.

Speaker 7 It creates like this vitrified tunnel, these vitrified chambers.

Speaker 7 And so

Speaker 7 we invented a technology that allowed us to go very deep and to build much faster

Speaker 7 than the Germans were able to do.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 back in the 70s, the Rand Corporation published a paper

Speaker 7 describing what is called

Speaker 7 a magneto-leviton train, which

Speaker 7 is a maglev train, a magneto-leviton train that could be installed either on the surface or underground, and that would operate in a vacuum tube. And it didn't run on a rail, rather,

Speaker 7 it was a, you know, it was using the electromagnetic force, and it was basically floating. It was a monorail, and it was floating, I think, like

Speaker 7 three-quarters three-quarters of an inch off of the rail

Speaker 7 because of the magnetic influence. And they, in the paper, they described how they could build this train.

Speaker 7 And if they put it in

Speaker 7 a vacuum, there's no resistance, there's no friction. They said that they could go coast to coast, I think it was half an hour or 40 minutes, coast to coast, from Washington, D.C.

Speaker 7 to Los Angeles, in like a half an hour with this, with this

Speaker 7 Magneto-Levitton train.

Speaker 7 Well,

Speaker 7 I'm very persuaded that we did build that train system, but we built it underground and in secret. And that, and in fact, I've talked to individuals in,

Speaker 7 let's say,

Speaker 7 highly placed individuals in the military who've confirmed that such a thing exists.

Speaker 7 And there is an underground railway, and it is this Magneto-Leviton Leviton system, and it connects the underground bases.

Speaker 8 I got a question.

Speaker 7 You know, why would

Speaker 8 you have podcasts, you're out there, you've got a great social media presence, you're here.

Speaker 8 Why would top military advisors or anybody leak that information to you?

Speaker 7 Well,

Speaker 7 I mean, I don't think that, I think that it's common knowledge among people in the intelligence community and certain individuals working in different levels of the government.

Speaker 7 I don't think that it's that big of a secret that we have a trained system like that. It would make sense for continuity of government, right?

Speaker 7 If we are preparing for a nuclear strike, that we would build underground bases and connect them with

Speaker 7 some kind of a rail system.

Speaker 7 So that part isn't, I don't think, that classified.

Speaker 7 I think what goes on in the underground bases is what's That's the classified stuff.

Speaker 7 I think that's where some of these unacknowledged special access programs are being developed in the deep underground military bases. But yeah, I interface with individuals all the time.

Speaker 7 I've interfaced with

Speaker 7 congressmen, people in the intelligence community, people in the military who, and of course it's all anecdotal. I've never seen the train system.
I've never been in an underground base.

Speaker 7 But I've read the papers on the

Speaker 7 nuclear boring machine.

Speaker 7 I've read the papers on the TOTE organization.

Speaker 7 I've read the papers from the RAND Corporation on the Magneto-Leviton train. And by the way, in that paper in the 1970s, they say in the paper that they now have the technology to build it.

Speaker 7 They had the technology in the 70s to build that train. So I think they did build it.
They just didn't build it for the public. They took the technology underground.
And now

Speaker 7 the Japanese and the Chinese are developing these kind of railways. using the same kind of technology.
Of course, they're not running in, as far as I know, they're not running in a vacuum tube.

Speaker 7 But they're using the same kind of technology and bullet trains and different kinds of rail systems systems that are being developed. So it's kind of common knowledge at this point.

Speaker 7 The secret would be

Speaker 7 how many of these deep underground military bases exist, where are they located, and what's happening inside of them. But I'm absolutely persuaded that they do, in fact, exist.
Interesting.

Speaker 8 Interesting.

Speaker 8 I can't even remember what we were talking about.

Speaker 8 Right before the interview started, we were talking about all the disclosure stuff, and you were having a meeting with the gentleman in Missouri, the congressman. Sorry, his name escapes me.

Speaker 7 Congressman Eric Burleson.

Speaker 8 And I had mentioned you should chat with Tim Burchett.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 7 I did briefly in the Capitol building.

Speaker 8 Yeah, he's really into this stuff.

Speaker 7 Great guys, by the way. Congressman Eric Burleson, Congressman Tim Burchett, Anna Paulina Luna.
These are phenomenal Congressmen and women.

Speaker 7 And they are at the heart of the battle for disclosure in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 8 Nothing's coming out.

Speaker 8 Nothing's coming out.

Speaker 7 Well, it is kind of, they're frustrated.

Speaker 8 We got guys coming up there saying they found non-human biologics. I don't even know what the hell that means.

Speaker 7 We've had two hearings in Congress. The first hearing, of course,

Speaker 7 featured primarily the testimony of David Grush, who was in the intelligence community. And of course, Grush in

Speaker 7 an official capacity investigating the topic of UAP, he came up against a program

Speaker 7 that he was not allowed to be read into.

Speaker 7 And this program is what's called today the legacy program. It's the program of the recovery and reverse engineering of non-human craft, crashed UFOs, basically,

Speaker 7 and

Speaker 7 the non-human, quote-unquote,

Speaker 7 biologicals associated with them. That was a term

Speaker 7 that Grush used during his testimony during the hearing. So we've had two hearings.
The second hearing featured primarily the testimony of Lou Elizondo.

Speaker 7 And Elizondo and Grush are basically telling the same story. We have had this legacy program in place for decades.
We've been recovering a crashed

Speaker 7 non-human, let's call them

Speaker 7 non-human advanced aerospace vehicles.

Speaker 7 We've been recovering this and

Speaker 7 the biological creatures, dead or alive, associated with them.

Speaker 7 I mean,

Speaker 7 this is an earth-shattering revelation for a lot of people. It's very difficult for a lot of people to assimilate that information into their brains.
And

Speaker 7 because, I mean, it's the biggest story in the history of mankind, right?

Speaker 8 What do you think of all this?

Speaker 7 Absolutely true.

Speaker 8 You think it's all true?

Speaker 7 100%.

Speaker 7 Because

Speaker 7 I'm somewhat of a ufologist, so I've studied ufology, and there's a lot of anecdotal data that has been accrued over the decades by competent ufologists

Speaker 7 that if you were to take the time to familiarize yourself with, I think you would, that everyone would draw the conclusion that, yeah, this is likely happening based on the data that, again, that's been accrued over decades of good UFO research.

Speaker 7 Yes, anecdotal, but at some point, you know, a tsunami of anecdotal evidence becomes hardcore evidence, in my opinion. And then you have

Speaker 7 Grush coming out, you have Elizondo coming out. And they are basically affirming what ufologists have known for decades.

Speaker 8 So you don't think this could be

Speaker 8 worldly tech?

Speaker 7 We do have, I mean, we've had some success in reverse engineering some of this technology. I do believe that.
We've had limited success. So

Speaker 7 do we have hybridized craft? of our own that incorporate both non-conventional, exotic, and conventional components? I think the answer is yes. I think we do.

Speaker 7 Now,

Speaker 7 how advanced are we at this point with that technology? I don't know, but I am very persuaded that we have it.

Speaker 7 So some of what people see, that they see these craft, these advanced aerospace vehicles, and they think

Speaker 7 that's a UFO, when in reality, I think much of it is us at this point. Not all of it, but much of it, I would concur, much of it is us at this point.
But I believe that the technology originates with

Speaker 7 the

Speaker 7 exotic technology with the non-human intelligence.

Speaker 8 You know, a lot of people think that they come from

Speaker 8 under the Earth, like there's some type of alien race beneath the surface of the Earth. What do you make of that?

Speaker 7 Yeah,

Speaker 7 that's part of the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis, which posits that

Speaker 7 there are non-human entities, intelligent non-human entities who are surreptitiously inhabiting planet Earth

Speaker 7 with us,

Speaker 7 that these contemporaneously with us. In other words,

Speaker 7 some people, and this is just a hypothesis, but some people

Speaker 7 talk about maybe there was

Speaker 7 some kind of an extraterrestrial species that landed here a long time ago and they've taken up residence inside of the Earth. And they have bases now in the Earth,

Speaker 7 and that a lot of the UFOs are actually not basically terrestrial-based at this point.

Speaker 7 There are other hypotheses that describe a lost civilization, an antediluvian civilization, survivors of the cataclysm that we were talking about previously, that went underground.

Speaker 7 And they've developed their civilization underground, and they've been living contemporaneously with us here on planet Earth

Speaker 7 in a crypto-terrestrial manner.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I don't know what to make of that. I don't know.
I think it is possible.

Speaker 7 But certainly a lot of the UFOs are coming out of the oceans, and they appear to be coming out of underground bases and definitely out of the oceans.

Speaker 7 A lot of the sightings, especially the ones that have been...

Speaker 7 acknowledged by the government have to do with large bodies of water. You know, the Navy encounters UFOs all the time.
And a lot of the times they're either coming out of or going into the water.

Speaker 7 They call these trans-medium vehicles because they can move through the atmosphere with the same ease as through the water. In fact, in a lot of cases, there's no splash.

Speaker 7 Now, how do you have a craft coming out of the ocean or going into the ocean without, at high rates of speed, without generating an enormous splash?

Speaker 7 That's why they refer to these as trans-medium vehicles. They seem to be able to move through any environment in the same way.
And it's probably because of the technology.

Speaker 7 Maybe they're in their own gravitational field. They're generating like a gravitational bubble.
So they're really moving space-time around the craft rather than moving the craft through space-time.

Speaker 7 That's one.

Speaker 8 What do you think? Are they coming from space and under?

Speaker 8 I mean, I don't know. I don't know, man.
I think

Speaker 8 I've interviewed a lot of people about this stuff. I've come to the conclusion, I I think it's all spiritual.

Speaker 7 I'm entirely persuaded that

Speaker 7 there is an extraterrestrial component to this. And I'll tell you why.
You're probably familiar with the testimony of Bob Lazar.

Speaker 7 Yeah. You know,

Speaker 7 Bob Lazar worked, allegedly, worked at the Nevada facility, the S4 facility by Groom Lake, and

Speaker 7 was involved in the reverse engineering program.

Speaker 7 He worked on a particular saucer that he denominates the sports model because it was sleek and it was functional. And his job in the program specifically was to work on the reactor.

Speaker 7 And according to Lazar, the reactor was an a matter, antimatter reactor.

Speaker 7 And it, in order to function, it required a piece of exotic matter that was machined into a triangle. And that exotic matter is called, well, was called by Lazar element 115.

Speaker 7 And Lazar talked about this back in the early 90s.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 element 115, I mean, nobody knew what the heck he was talking about, but today we actually have identified it as called moscavium.

Speaker 7 we can synthesize it. The Russians have been able to synthesize it, but we don't have a stable isotope.
We can

Speaker 7 The only isotopes that we know of on Earth are not stable. But this craft, according to Lazar, the reactor of this saucer that he was working on,

Speaker 7 it used a stable form of element 115. And this exotic matter was essential to the operation of the craft, to the reactor.
And again, it was a matter-antimatter reaction.

Speaker 7 And of course, one of the largest explosions that we know of is the annihilation of matter and antimatter. Matter and antimatter annihilate each other.
We know antimatter is real. We can actually...

Speaker 8 What is antimatter?

Speaker 7 I'm not a physicist, but antimatter is like the opposite of matter. And matter and antimatter.
It's nothing. It's not nothing.
I'm not qualified to answer the question, what is antimatter?

Speaker 7 I know it exists, and I know that we can create... antimatter at CERN.
We have created antimatter at CERN, but

Speaker 7 it only exists for fractions of a second.

Speaker 7 And by the way, you know, antimatter, that collision between matter and antimatter, that annihilation,

Speaker 7 that could be turned into a weapon. You can weaponize that.
If you can stabilize it,

Speaker 7 you can build antimatter bombs. Well, you know, I mentioned that CERN, the largest man-made machine on planet Earth, is a Large Hadron Collider in Geneva,

Speaker 7 CERN.

Speaker 7 And the Chinese are building one 10 times the size of that.

Speaker 8 No, I didn't know that.

Speaker 7 At least they were.

Speaker 7 They definitely were.

Speaker 7 I would assume that the project is still underway. And again, the CERN is the largest man-made machine on Earth.
Chinese are building one 10 times larger.

Speaker 7 The objective of CERN, ostensibly, is they want to find out what happened

Speaker 7 at the Big Bang, right?

Speaker 7 I went to CERN and talked to the physicists there, the particle physicists. And they genuinely, they want to know what happened at the Big Bang.

Speaker 7 They want to know how the universe came to be and all of that. The idea is to look back in time.

Speaker 7 And,

Speaker 7 but I don't think that's why the Chinese are building a

Speaker 7 an atom smasher that's 10 times the size of CERN. I think what they're after is antimatter weapons.

Speaker 7 An antimatter bomb. I mean, you know, you have antimatter bombs are many times more

Speaker 7 powerful than

Speaker 7 a thermonuclear bomb, warhead.

Speaker 7 And they don't have that. The problem with nuclear weapons is the fallout.
You radiate everything, right?

Speaker 7 So if you bomb, if you drop a bomb on a city, nuclear bomb, well, you have rendered that city, that area, unusable.

Speaker 7 You've radiated it. The soil is going to be ruined.
Look at Fukushima, right?

Speaker 7 You turn it into Fukushima. So if you're like

Speaker 7 the Chinese and you're interested in occupying, let's say, the breadbasket of America because you need more food, you don't want to nuke it

Speaker 7 because you destroy the soil. You radiate it and you render it useless.

Speaker 7 But an antimatter bomb, that's another situation.

Speaker 7 You could create... an explosion that is bigger, more powerful, more intense than a nuclear explosion

Speaker 7 without the radiation,

Speaker 7 without nuking that area so you could bomb it and then make use of it afterwards. So that's a little rabbit trail there, but I think that's why the Chinese are interested in building

Speaker 7 a collider, precisely because of the matter-antimatter annihilation. It is exceedingly powerful.
So going back to the reactor, this, of course, comes from the testimony of Bob Lazar, that there's

Speaker 7 a matter-antimatter reaction happening inside of the reactor, and it's generating an enormous amount of energy, the kind of energy that's required to generate and to control gravity waves.

Speaker 7 And that's how Lazar says that those craft work. They produce gravity waves, and

Speaker 7 that's all featured in the testimony of Bob Lazar.

Speaker 7 He wrote a really good book called Dreamland, where he describes all of this. I personally believe that Bob Lazar is telling the truth.

Speaker 7 I am persuaded that his testimony is true. I know there's a lot of controversy out there about that,

Speaker 7 but his, by the way, Lazar's testimony synchronizes with Grush's testimony and with Lua Lazando's testimony. It perfectly synchronizes.

Speaker 7 The craft that Lazar worked on, the sports model, the interior of the craft was designed for diminutive people.

Speaker 7 In other words, for little guys who, according to Lazar, the people who worked at the S4 facility referred to as the kids.

Speaker 7 We're talking about gray aliens.

Speaker 7 And I have people who come to me

Speaker 7 who are

Speaker 7 whistleblowers, but they're not whistleblowing in an official capacity yet.

Speaker 7 And some of these guys have been on crash retrieval sites and they've been involved in various aspects of crash retrievals, the protocols, and they've seen the bodies.

Speaker 7 And the bodies are little gray guys.

Speaker 7 So,

Speaker 7 yes, I'm absolutely persuaded that we are looking at a nuts and bolts physical phenomenon, craft that actually crashes,

Speaker 7 and

Speaker 7 corporeal biological beings who die.

Speaker 7 Again, this is the testimony of David Grush, this is the testimony of Louis Lizondo, and others. And there are more, by the way.
There are more witnesses coming forward.

Speaker 7 There's going to be another hearing.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 they've got,

Speaker 7 we're going to hear more. I mean, we're going to see more witnesses.

Speaker 7 And, you know, Tim Burchett, Congressman Burchett, tried to push through legislation, whistleblower protection legislation. I don't know if you knew that.

Speaker 7 I think it was last year.

Speaker 7 Because what they really need to do is to protect whistleblowers who are coming from the legacy program. Because we have guys like Grush and and Elizondo

Speaker 7 who've come up against the program, who are not read into the program, but have knowledge of it. But what we don't have yet are whistleblowers who had hands on the craft.

Speaker 7 You know, we have Lazar, but Lazar hasn't, you know, he hasn't been a part of these hearings. But we need, at this point, we need

Speaker 7 whistleblowers who are coming from within the legacy program.

Speaker 8 Why do you think Lazar has never come forward?

Speaker 7 I don't think he wants to be bothered with it at this point in his life.

Speaker 7 He wasn't taking, he's endured a lot of ridicule over the years. It's only recently that people are taking his story seriously.

Speaker 7 It's not enhanced his life at all. In fact, the opposite.

Speaker 7 This comes from him. I mean, he said this openly in various interviews.

Speaker 7 And he says it in his book, in his book, Dreamland.

Speaker 7 It's not done anything positive for his life. It's only been negative for him.
And

Speaker 7 it's been really just a gigantic headache his entire life.

Speaker 7 He's endured endless ridicule. A lot of people just do not believe him.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 so

Speaker 7 he's moved on in life. He doesn't probably at this point doesn't want to be the UFO guy.

Speaker 7 He's a legitimate scientist.

Speaker 7 And his passion is physics and science. And that's what he's doing today.
He has his own laboratory. And I just don't think he wants to be bothered with it.

Speaker 7 He's not an individual who's who's looking for fame.

Speaker 7 He's not interested in profiting from any of this. And he's never changed his story.

Speaker 7 He's never changed his story.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 the ufologist George Knapp has done a lot of great work,

Speaker 7 I think, affirming the testimony of Bob Lazar.

Speaker 7 And Knapp's, you know, an old school investigator. And I've got a lot of respect for George Knapp.
And

Speaker 7 I really do believe that Lazar's testimony has been at this point

Speaker 7 confirmed.

Speaker 7 We haven't even talked about face peelers.

Speaker 8 I know, I know. We're fast saying it.
Let's take a quick break. When we get back, we'll talk about the face peelers, which is what I really want to talk to you about.

Speaker 8 But there's just so many rabbit holes to go down. Yeah.

Speaker 7 It's a great segue to the face peelers. You see,

Speaker 8 you seem to be knowledgeable on all of them. So thank you.
But let's take a break.

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Speaker 8 All right, Tim, we're back from the break. I've been a lot of rabbit holes.
We just went down. We'll probably go down a lot more.

Speaker 8 But the face peelers, that's actually how I wanted to start the interview. But

Speaker 8 what are the face peelers?

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 7 So back in 2023, in the summer of 2023, in July,

Speaker 7 there was a series of videos that went viral on social media. And these videos were captured in the Peruvian Amazon in the region of Alto Nanay.

Speaker 7 And they featured a chaotic scene at nighttime in which the villagers were running around, screaming, pursuing something,

Speaker 7 and discharging their firearms into the jungle.

Speaker 7 And subsequent interviews with members of the community revealed that they had been assailed by

Speaker 7 these very strange people, beings, who were dressed in body armor, one of them said reminiscent of the Green Goblin from the Spider-Man movie, and that these assailants could

Speaker 7 fly, that they could hover a meter off the ground, and that they were impervious to gunfire.

Speaker 7 and that they were making incursions into the village. And the villagers were completely freaked out about it.

Speaker 7 A couple of other videos surfaced and these videos were surfacing at the end of July, beginning of August. A couple of other videos surfaced from the Peruvian Amazon featuring similar phenomena.
And

Speaker 7 one surfaced from

Speaker 7 the city of Nauta.

Speaker 7 And as I said, they went viral all over social media.

Speaker 7 The villagers subsequent to publishing the video, they were pleading with the Peruvian Navy to come protect them. Pleading.
They took some pictures where they're holding up signs.

Speaker 7 And by the way, I should say that one of these villages,

Speaker 7 it's called San Antonio de Pintuyacu. And it's located, it's very remote.
It's located in the

Speaker 7 Peruvian Amazon, northwest of the city of Iquitos.

Speaker 7 They published some pictures where they're holding signs, the villagers, begging the Navy to come protect them because they were under assault by some phenomenon.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 the story

Speaker 7 kind of changed at some point to people were taking it very seriously and then and then there was this explanation that was offered and the story sort of went away.

Speaker 7 And the explanation that was offered was, the explanation that emerged was that the villagers were were being assaulted by river miners

Speaker 7 equipped with state-of-the-art jetpacks

Speaker 7 and that the river miners were attempting to drive the the inhabitants of san antonio de pinto yaku off of their land so that they could mine the river i learned that this narrative was concocted by two police officers who visited the village from the city of Iquitos.

Speaker 7 So I'm watching this unfold, and I'm very interested because I lived in the Peruvian Amazon. In fact, I live not far from this region in Alto Nanay,

Speaker 7 and I'm very familiar with the culture. I speak Spanish, and I speak that particular dialect of Spanish, which is called Charapa.
And Charapa is just the jungle dialect in Peru.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 so I'm very intrigued watching all of this unfold.

Speaker 7 And when the jetpack miner narrative came out, I wasn't buying it. That was ridiculous.
I knew that was ridiculous because I've met river miners

Speaker 7 and they don't have, they don't, they're not equipped with state-of-the-art.

Speaker 8 Yeah, what would they even be mining anyways?

Speaker 7 So, the river miners, what they do is they're, they're very rudimentary operations.

Speaker 7 They have these rafts, these river boats that are, you know, all rusted out and they're, they're not like floating around on yachts. And they, they're, what they do is very destructive to

Speaker 7 the environment. They dump mercury into the water, which, of course, kills everything, poisons the water.
It's a real problem. They do that? They dump mercury in the water and then

Speaker 7 they dredge, is it called dredging? They dredge the bottom of the river

Speaker 7 and then

Speaker 7 they sift the residue through

Speaker 7 whatever to try and separate out the gold.

Speaker 7 So that's how those river miners operate. They're not sophisticated.

Speaker 7 They're not rich.

Speaker 7 And they are very seedy individuals usually because what they're doing is illegal.

Speaker 7 You're not allowed to mine rivers like that anywhere, especially in the Amazon. But they do it anyway because there's gold

Speaker 7 to be gathered in those rivers. And so, again, the explanation is that these river miners, these Peruvian river miners, somehow

Speaker 7 have

Speaker 7 attained these,

Speaker 7 have come into possession of these advanced

Speaker 7 advanced jetpack technology and

Speaker 7 body armor,

Speaker 7 and we're terrorizing the villagers to try and expel them from their land.

Speaker 7 That's ridiculous.

Speaker 8 There's no way. I mean, there's gold mines all over the world.

Speaker 8 There's no way that

Speaker 8 the most sophisticated technological gold miners are sifting gold out of a river bottom.

Speaker 7 Well,

Speaker 7 and flying around with jetpacks.

Speaker 8 That's what I'm getting at.

Speaker 7 It's absurd. It's absurd.
And I knew it was absurd, but the media ran with it. Media organizations all over the world, in Peru, in the United States, they ran with it.

Speaker 7 And I remember watching a news presentation

Speaker 7 on News Nation

Speaker 7 because they were covering the story. It was a big story.
What's happening in the Peruvian Amazon? These people are freaking out. They're saying that aliens are attacking them.

Speaker 8 This is in 2022.

Speaker 7 This is 2023, July of 2023.

Speaker 7 The villagers are saying we're being assaulted by aliens, and they were saying they were using the term Pelacara, which is face peeler. They're being attacked by Pelacaras.
Some of them said that

Speaker 7 the Pelacadas are attacking us. Others said these are not humans.
These are extraterrestrials.

Speaker 7 And so the media was very focused on this for a while.

Speaker 7 And then as soon as the jetpack miner story came out, case closed, mystery solved, right? Oh, it's just those pesky river miners with their jet packs.

Speaker 7 I could not believe that the media in the United States bought that narrative, especially an organization like News Nation. I can't.

Speaker 7 I couldn't believe it. It was so, on its face, absurd.
Okay. And

Speaker 7 so I'm sitting back watching all of this unfold. And

Speaker 7 I'm getting inundated with emails and text messages asking me, please go down there and investigate this.

Speaker 7 And I'm sort of sitting back waiting for somebody to go out there and go investigate what the heck is happening.

Speaker 7 And nobody was going.

Speaker 7 And I didn't have my, my passport was, I was, I was renewing my passport at the time. And so my passport, I was waiting for my new one to come in.
And I'm just sitting back thinking,

Speaker 7 I'm going to have to go. I mean, I didn't even really want to.
I'm just thinking, I'm going to have to go.

Speaker 7 I'm going to have to go do this. And I seemed uniquely equipped to do it because I lived out there.
I speak the language and I'm very well adapted to the culture.

Speaker 8 How big is this village?

Speaker 7 How many people we have? San Antonio de Pinto Yaku has a population of approximately 200 inhabitants. So it's actually a larger village.

Speaker 7 And in fact,

Speaker 7 it's an important village.

Speaker 7 The provincial government installed a communication outpost there. So they have internet in this village.
And this is a very old community

Speaker 7 in the sense that this is

Speaker 7 one of of the earliest tribe.

Speaker 7 This tribe goes back hundreds of years.

Speaker 7 They are the Ikitu people,

Speaker 7 and they're a very unique tribe. And their village is sort of the last

Speaker 7 outpost of civilization before a vast swath of Amazon jungle.

Speaker 7 Between the village and

Speaker 7 Ecuador, there's just

Speaker 7 untracked Amazon rainforest.

Speaker 7 Uninhabitable wilderness, basically. So

Speaker 7 it's remote,

Speaker 7 but

Speaker 7 they do have internet. I mean, you know, they have, and that's very unique.
Most of these remote villages

Speaker 7 don't have internet.

Speaker 7 And these guys, you know, they have such a good internet uplink that, or they have such a good connection to the internet out there that they sit there in the evenings and watch movies on their phones.

Speaker 7 And this is how they were able to upload the videos.

Speaker 7 They filmed a particular individual named Christian, this young man who contacted me named Christian,

Speaker 7 he's the one who took the footage, and then he uploaded it from the village precisely because they have this communications outpost.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 I decided

Speaker 7 that I had to go down there and conduct an investigation because nobody was going.

Speaker 7 When finally I got my new passport back,

Speaker 7 I decided to mount an expedition. And I tagged a friend of mine named Doug Thornton, who was an infantry marine.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 Doug and I embarked on this journey to the Peruvian Amazon.

Speaker 7 I

Speaker 7 made contact with the village.

Speaker 7 I

Speaker 7 talked to Christian, who again was the guy that, the young man who filmed the incident. And I recorded a message

Speaker 7 on WhatsApp

Speaker 7 explaining my intentions, my desire to come and investigate the situation, which was played during a communal meeting in the village to the elders of the village.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 so the chief of the village, who they in Peru, it's called the Apu, the Apu of the village, and the elders listened to my message,

Speaker 7 and then they sent me a formal invitation to come to their village, that they would receive me in a formal

Speaker 7 manner and that I could conduct my investigation. So I got permission from the village.

Speaker 8 Was this still going on?

Speaker 7 It was going on into August. By the time that I got my passport back and organized my expedition, it's October.

Speaker 7 So it's kind of, it's after the fact. The phenomenon died down in the month of August.
So like mid-August, it had subsided. But it was still very fresh in their minds.

Speaker 7 In fact, the villagers were living on edge. The men of the village, I learned through Christian, the men of the village were every night conducting a patrol.

Speaker 7 They were patrolling the perimeter of the village. And

Speaker 7 they were, you know, so they would be out there with their flashlights and their shotguns. And I was told that they were getting very little sleep.

Speaker 7 They were not going out to their chakras, their farms out in the jungle to harvest

Speaker 7 products. They were not going very far down the river to fish.

Speaker 7 It was like the whole village had PTSD.

Speaker 7 They were running low on supplies. They needed certain medical supplies.

Speaker 7 So I decided that in addition to doing the

Speaker 7 investigation of the phenomenon, that we would also supply the village with some of the supplies that they needed, with some of the food and medical supplies that they needed.

Speaker 7 And in fact, a mutual contact, mutual friend of ours, Pastor Darren Tyler from Conduit Church,

Speaker 7 he agreed to help me fund, he helped me fund the trip, the expedition to supply the village. And my friend Jamie Brandenburg and some of the guys from Conduit Church helped fund that expedition.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 I had the funding. I had permission from the village.
I chartered a riverboat, an iquidos,

Speaker 7 called La La Esperanza,

Speaker 7 and I hired two active duty Navy commandos, Peruvian jungle Navy commandos, to go with me because I had no idea what I was getting into, no idea what this phenomenon was.

Speaker 7 I suspected maybe it was the cartel or something like that. I didn't know what I was walking into.
So we went very low profile.

Speaker 7 We filmed it. I published it on my YouTube channel, but we just brought in GoPros.
We wanted to stay very low profile. And so in October,

Speaker 7 we went up the river.

Speaker 7 It took two days to get there on the riverboat. We went up the river Nanai and then the river Pintuyaku and eventually arrived to the village.
And when we got there,

Speaker 7 and by the way, the Apu met us in Ikitos and went up the river with us. So the Apu and some other individuals from the village escorted us to the village on the boat.

Speaker 7 When we arrived to the village, all of the men came down to the bank of the river and

Speaker 7 they all had their shotguns in their hands. And

Speaker 7 they were receiving us in a very cordial way. They were happy to see us.
But I was told, the APU had told me that

Speaker 7 they had their firearms on them at all times. Since this had started to happen back in July, the men always kept their firearms on them, and that means shotguns.

Speaker 7 And these are very rudimentary firearms. I mean, these are really old, rusty shotguns.

Speaker 7 And so, in addition to supplying them with food and medical supplies, we also wanted to give them some strategic technology for their patrols. So, we procured,

Speaker 7 we got them really good radios.

Speaker 7 high-powered flashlights and commercial-grade night vision goggles that have a recording capability so they could actually record the phenomenon with the night vision.

Speaker 7 And then we gave them some thermal binocular.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 so we wanted to provision them

Speaker 7 to help so that they could defend themselves against this, whatever this phenomenon was, again, which we had no idea what it was. So

Speaker 7 all the men of the village are there

Speaker 7 on the bank of the river.

Speaker 7 They receive us very cordially. They usher me into what they call the Tambo, which is this communications installation that the government built in their village.
It's just this big cement building.

Speaker 7 And we delivered the supplies, and

Speaker 7 they actually, they did a traditional kitu dance for us, and they gave us masato to drink. And

Speaker 7 it was a whole spectacle. So they're very happy to have us there.
We were the only ones who had come to investigate the phenomenon. No kidding.
Nobody else had gone.

Speaker 7 Now,

Speaker 7 two police officers, Peruvian police officers, were dispatched from Iquitos,

Speaker 7 from the city of Iquitos, to investigate a particular incident, which was the attempted abduction of a 15-year-old girl, which is part of this narrative.

Speaker 7 I failed to mention that when we were talking about the publication of those videos that went viral on social media, part of those videos featured footage and testimony of the attempted abduction of a 15-year-old girl.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I told you that they were claiming that, or they were saying that this was an attack by face peelers, Pele La Caras, and

Speaker 7 somebody had cut her

Speaker 7 neck under her jawline, and she was found unconscious. And that was part of the story.
And so, because there was an attempted abduction. How did they fend off the

Speaker 8 abduction?

Speaker 7 She screamed,

Speaker 7 and the villagers were already in a state of

Speaker 7 vigilance. And when she screamed, they came running with their shotguns, and they saw the assailants.

Speaker 7 And the assailants were dressed in black armored body suits, head to foot. They had helmets on.

Speaker 7 They had almond-shaped tinted eyelenses that were described to me variously as green and yellow.

Speaker 7 And most remarkably, they were floating on circular platforms.

Speaker 7 Like

Speaker 7 the best way I can describe it is like, do you remember those circular

Speaker 7 sleds?

Speaker 7 They look like garbage can lids.

Speaker 8 A snow sled.

Speaker 7 Yeah, like a circular snow sled.

Speaker 8 A saucer.

Speaker 7 A saucer. Yeah, that's what these guys were flying around on, like circular

Speaker 7 platforms.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 this is what the villagers were encountering. But

Speaker 7 when I went into the village, they,

Speaker 7 again, they received us in this very formal, cordial manner. And then we began the investigation in earnest.
And

Speaker 7 I

Speaker 7 we walked around the village, accompanied by the APU,

Speaker 7 and we interviewed dozens, dozens of villagers, men, women, children.

Speaker 7 And what we heard was extraordinary. And at first, when we began to hear these testimonies,

Speaker 7 we were nervous. Because at first, I was thinking, cartel.

Speaker 7 I was thinking

Speaker 7 this could be cartel. This could be a serious, well-funded operation.

Speaker 7 cartel operation. And that made us nervous.
And in fact, I remember

Speaker 7 after conducting some of the initial interviews, we went back to the boat. We were staying on the riverboat.
The riverboat was docked on the bank of the village,

Speaker 7 on the bank of the river up against the village. And we went back to the riverboat after about two hours of interviewing people.
And we had a meeting with the Navy commandos. By the way,

Speaker 7 they're jungle commandos. They're trained in jungle survival.

Speaker 7 And really great guys. And so we had a little security meeting.

Speaker 7 And we were talking about the possibility that this is cartel, and that if it's cartel, they probably are still in the area, and they might be surveilling us.

Speaker 7 And what do we do?

Speaker 7 We need to make sure that we're prepared, especially at night. So that was our initial thought.

Speaker 7 Then I went back into the village and we continued to conduct the investigations. The APU took me to where the videos were captured, and they explained to me what happened.

Speaker 7 And I'm going to try and summarize to you what was happening. And remember, this was happening for a few weeks consecutively.
Not every single day, but

Speaker 7 within those few weeks,

Speaker 7 it was happening frequently.

Speaker 7 The phenomenon always happened at night.

Speaker 7 And the first thing that the villagers would see

Speaker 7 were saucers, little saucers flying around. And the saucers had a series of lights on them, and they had some kind of a floodlight attached to the front that that

Speaker 7 could be turned on and off. So the first thing that they would begin to see are these saucers, these little saucers flying around above the village.

Speaker 8 How many?

Speaker 7 Two. Usually two.
The assailants came two by two.

Speaker 7 And then they would see the saucers go into the jungle and land.

Speaker 7 And shortly thereafter, two individuals would make an incursion into the village.

Speaker 7 And these individuals were wearing, as I said earlier, black armored bodysuits head to foot, again with helmets, almond-shaped eyelenses.

Speaker 7 The assailants were described as being very tall, taller than me. I'm 6'1, and all of the villagers said they were taller than me.
And I would say, How tall? A foot taller, two feet taller?

Speaker 7 Usually around seven feet tall, is what they would indicate. About a foot taller than me.

Speaker 7 They described them as being inhumanly agile.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 some of the guys actually pursued. There was a group of villagers who pursued the assailants.

Speaker 7 And they told me these guys did not move like human beings. They were inhumanly agile.

Speaker 7 And they pursued one of these assailants through the jungle, and he dove into the river, quickly swam across the river, hopped onto the bank, and flew off

Speaker 7 into the sky.

Speaker 7 They

Speaker 8 without the saucer.

Speaker 7 I think the saucer was docked over there.

Speaker 7 And in fact, in that case, I can't recall if in that particular case,

Speaker 7 if he hopped on the saucer or if he just disappeared into the jungle. I'm pretty sure he hopped on the saucer.
Because that's what would happen.

Speaker 7 They would pursue them, and these guys would go back to where they landed, get back on their saucers, and take off at a high rate of speed.

Speaker 7 The saucers were silent,

Speaker 7 except for when they initially took off. There was sort of like a sound like compressed air.
That's what the villagers expressed to me, like a sound of compressed air being released.

Speaker 7 But for the most part, they were silent.

Speaker 7 Whatever this body armor was that these assailants were wearing is

Speaker 7 bulletproof, at least

Speaker 7 against shotgun shells. I mean, these guys use birdshot in the jungle.

Speaker 7 But what they were doing, because they would shoot the assailants, some of them at point-blank range, they would discharge their shotgun at point-blank range at some of these assailants.

Speaker 7 And they told me they could hear the BBs

Speaker 7 dinking off the body armor.

Speaker 7 The assailants never spoke, except for in one occasion, which we'll talk about.

Speaker 7 And one guy told me

Speaker 7 he blasted one of these assailants with his shotgun. I think it was only about 15 feet away, maybe even closer, maybe 10 feet away.
He blasted him with a shotgun.

Speaker 7 He says that this particular individual was dressed in silver body armor, unlike the rest. And he swears to me, this one was silver.
Everyone else said black.

Speaker 7 But for whatever reason, this one was dressed in silver body armor. He blasts him with the shotgun, and the impact knocks the guy on his butt, the assailant.

Speaker 7 And then he just jumps up and jumps, like flies back up to a vertical position and floated away, floated, and he's not on the saucer. So two things became apparent.

Speaker 7 Number one, they're making incursions into the village

Speaker 7 initially on their saucers. They're flying and

Speaker 7 they're surfing. The villagers said they would see them.
They put the flashlight up on the saucer and they would see these guys like surfing on these things.

Speaker 7 And then when they came into the village, they disembarked from the saucers and then they came into the village, they were still able to float based on some kind of mechanism that was incorporated into their footwear, into their boots.

Speaker 7 And they told me that the boots had two discs on the bottom, like one on the heel, one near the toe. They had two discs, and that the discs would,

Speaker 7 they admitted some kind of a light,

Speaker 7 and this enabled the assailants to float.

Speaker 7 And when this guy shot this one that was

Speaker 7 dressed in the silver body armor, that's how he popped back up. He was floating.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 this isn't just one or two testimonies this is dozens and dozens of testimonies from different people in the village they all say they all saw the same thing all of them not every person in the village encountered the phenomenon but the ones that did all described the same thing in the same detail

Speaker 7 the assailants

Speaker 7 were described as being able to bound over the huts, bound over the houses, so they could jump over the houses.

Speaker 7 As I said, they were impervious to

Speaker 7 the shotguns.

Speaker 7 And what I was about to say about that was that the villagers, realizing that their bird shot wasn't having much of an effect, what they did was they would show me how they were doing this.

Speaker 7 They would open up the cartridge, empty out the BBs, and weld the BB, some of the BBs together to

Speaker 7 make slugs.

Speaker 7 And then they would put them back in there, and they were firing these makeshift slugs to no effect.

Speaker 7 They also set up traps

Speaker 7 around the village to

Speaker 7 try and catch one of these assailants. And the traps consist of, they're the typical kind of traps that they use out there in the jungle.

Speaker 7 They're just a tube with a bullet inside, and there's like a hammer mechanism, and then there's a tripwire. And they usually use these to catch, to hunt small game.

Speaker 7 They put them in the game trails, and they catch...

Speaker 7 this is a part of their

Speaker 7 this is what they what hunters commonly do. But this time they retrofitted they retrofitted these traps to shoot these assailants.
So

Speaker 7 they put these welded

Speaker 7 bird shot in the cartridge and then they lifted the the tube higher. And what they were trying to calculate was the knees.
They wanted to shoot the assailants at the knees.

Speaker 7 So usually they're about a foot off the ground. They lifted them two or three feet off the ground and they set up nine of them around the village.

Speaker 7 And at night they would hear the traps going off.

Speaker 7 They'd hear the shotgun blasts. And then when they would run out there to see what happened, obviously they're expecting to see one of these assailants laying on the ground with a hole in his knee.

Speaker 7 There was nothing. No residue, no blood, nothing.
No footprints.

Speaker 7 The footprints were there. And the footprints were two discs.
Remember I said they have disc on the heel and on the toe.

Speaker 7 They were the imprints of discs, but you could also see like the outline of a shoe.

Speaker 7 But

Speaker 7 they were ineffective at

Speaker 7 actually

Speaker 7 killing or injuring any of the assailants. And these are very dangerous traps.

Speaker 7 And in fact, one of the ladies from the village accidentally tripped one, and she got shot in the thigh about a month before we arrived.

Speaker 7 And so they quit doing the traps because they're very dangerous.

Speaker 7 So they had

Speaker 7 they decided to start patrolling the village sometime in July because they were freaked out. Everybody was completely freaked out.

Speaker 7 And they had been running their patrols every night for a few months and were still patrolling when we got there.

Speaker 7 In addition to the

Speaker 7 disks that they were flying around on,

Speaker 7 there were also

Speaker 7 advanced aerospace vehicles involved in the phenomenon. What do I mean by that?

Speaker 7 The villagers

Speaker 7 were describing two things for me. They were describing the discs that the guys were flying on, circular discs, and then some of them were drawing in the dirt for me these other craft.

Speaker 7 And these other craft were like, they were sort of delta-shaped, but they were shaped like an acorn, like an acorn on its side.

Speaker 7 So they had rounded edges, but they were sort of delta-shaped, you know, so something like that.

Speaker 7 And they were large. They were the size of like a large helicopter.
And multiple villagers drew these for me in the dirt. And one particular gentleman drew for me on an acrylic board.

Speaker 7 And he described it in great detail. And these craft would hover silently over the village.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 they would be stationary, and then sometimes they would move away at different rates of speed.

Speaker 7 But

Speaker 7 there were multiple witnesses to these craft. In fact, the gentleman who drew the craft for me on the acrylic chalkboard,

Speaker 7 he said that one night

Speaker 7 he was right in front of the village in the river on his canoe around three o'clock in the morning pulling up his nets.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 as he's pulling up his nets, he said it was like somebody turned the lights on.

Speaker 7 He said it was like the sun came up suddenly and everything is illuminated around him. And he realized that there there was something above him.

Speaker 7 So he looks up and he sees this bright light shining down on him. And he sees this craft hovering in the air about 40, 50 feet above him.
And he's sitting there in the canoe, right on the river.

Speaker 7 This craft is silently hovering above him. And it's semi-transparent.
He said it had like a transparent mesh around it. You could see the fuselage.
You could see the body of the craft.

Speaker 7 but it was also somewhat transparent and you could see two individuals sitting inside. He had one up in in the front and one in the rear of this craft.

Speaker 7 And it was shaped precisely like what everyone else described. It was that acorn shape.

Speaker 7 Again, an acorn on its side, not upright.

Speaker 7 And he was just in shock. And he said, as he was looking at this craft,

Speaker 7 it had little stubby protrusions, rounded protrusions, in the place of wings. So it didn't have wings.

Speaker 7 And these protrusions opened up,

Speaker 7 and there was a series of lights, like rapidly blinking lights. And he said it was like it was scanning and then they folded back in and the craft began to move away.

Speaker 7 And as it moved away, there was a low frequency hum.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 as I said, we've got advanced aerospace vehicles in play here, not just...

Speaker 7 you know, so the narrative of

Speaker 7 jetpack

Speaker 7 miners

Speaker 7 was obviously becoming less and less, was becoming more and more absurd, let's put it that way.

Speaker 7 And the cartel explanation was becoming less and less likely as we were conducting this investigation, because I don't believe that cartels have this kind of technology.

Speaker 7 The assailants did have backpacks. Everybody did describe, but it was like a small hard shell pack that was attached to the body armor.

Speaker 7 And they clearly were using, they were floating with whatever mechanism was attached to the bottom of their boots, and they were flying on the discs.

Speaker 7 They were not jet packs. So we surmise that maybe we're looking at some kind of a battery,

Speaker 7 maybe a mini reactor. I don't know.
Maybe that's the energy source

Speaker 7 is the backpack.

Speaker 7 The most

Speaker 7 critical testimony that we heard came from the 15-year-old girl who was nearly abducted. Her name is Talia.

Speaker 7 And we went into the village one evening specifically with the intention

Speaker 7 to

Speaker 7 interview her

Speaker 7 because she had had a close encounter with the assailants.

Speaker 7 When we went into the village, It's the evening and in the Amazon, you know, in the evening in the plaza, all the men are playing soccer, all the women are playing volleyball.

Speaker 7 And so

Speaker 7 we're walking around, everyone's kind of just having fun playing soccer or volleyball. And we look over and we see this girl sitting all by herself, 15-year-old girl, sitting up against

Speaker 7 a hut.

Speaker 7 And she's just all by herself, just sitting there.

Speaker 7 And the Apu informed us that that was Talia.

Speaker 7 And I said, well, can we talk to her? He said, well, I'll talk to her dad and see if her dad can approach her because she's very

Speaker 7 traumatized.

Speaker 7 And so we're standing there, and Apu goes to find the father, and she looks over at us, me and Doug. And we're pretty imposing characters.

Speaker 7 I mean, you know, Doug's a big guy, and I'm tall, and we're imposing-looking gringos. We've got a machete and so forth.
She looks over at us.

Speaker 7 She casually glances at us, and as soon as she sees us, she starts to tremble.

Speaker 7 And she's maybe, I don't know, maybe

Speaker 7 20, 30 yards away. She sees us, she instantly starts to tremble.

Speaker 7 And she takes her hair and she moves it to the side of her face to block us from seeing her face. You understand what I'm saying? She takes her hair and moves.
And she's sitting there trembling.

Speaker 7 And she starts to block her face like this. And instantly, I recognize, wow, this is serious trauma.

Speaker 7 And our heart broke for this girl. And the father went over to her and

Speaker 7 talked to her and tried to convince her to come over and talk to us. And she wouldn't come.
She just, she got up and ran away.

Speaker 7 And the father, he came over and said, she's just really, really traumatized. And he said, but here's what I want you to do.
Come by tomorrow morning to my house and I will bring her

Speaker 7 and you guys will be able to talk to her. So that's what we did.
The following morning, we visited their home

Speaker 7 and we waited in the backyard and the father eventually was able to convince Talia to come and talk to us.

Speaker 7 And when I encountered Talia,

Speaker 7 when she saw me,

Speaker 7 she started to cry and she was trembling uncontrollably.

Speaker 7 And she started to cry.

Speaker 7 And again, our hearts broke for this girl, obviously severe PTSD.

Speaker 7 And we were triggering it.

Speaker 7 So she related her story. I was eventually able, it took a while, you know,

Speaker 7 for her to warm up to us. She was associating me and Doug with her assailants.

Speaker 7 So, and you'll understand why in a minute. So she had this PTSD and she was associating us with the assailants.
So we...

Speaker 7 We started, I interviewed her, and she told me that one evening back in July,

Speaker 7 she was in her backyard, and she had this long stick, and she was trying to knock down some fruit from the tree to make a drink out of it for dinner. And

Speaker 7 the sun is just starting to go down. And again, the occursions only happened after dark, or as it was getting dark.

Speaker 7 And she knocked down a fruit from the tree, and she bent over to pick up the fruit. And when she bent over,

Speaker 7 she felt a wind at her back and the dry leaves began to rustle at her feet. and she looked up to see what was generating this wind and she saw this

Speaker 7 person

Speaker 7 dressed head to foot in black body armor flying on a disc and he was she went like this he was flying on a disc and behind her house there's like a little golly and it's a forested golly so it's jungle back there and then around this little forested golly there's other houses and there's a little hill that comes up to her house and this is this this

Speaker 7 assailant who they all were calling again Pelakada the face peeler

Speaker 7 he's he floated up next to her and then he landed next to her and he grabbed her from behind he put his hand over her mouth

Speaker 7 and then she saw another one coming behind him in the same manner floating like surfing up on this hoverboard this circular platform he floats up the hill lands in front of her and he grabs her legs so now she's

Speaker 7 she's being held from behind by one assailant and then her legs, the other guy has her legs.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 they lift her up together on their hoverboards, on their circular discs. They lift her up and they fly her behind like this thatch-roof chicken coop.

Speaker 7 And then they land.

Speaker 7 Her mouth is covered. And then they proceed,

Speaker 7 the one who was holding her feet, he took out a powder,

Speaker 7 and then he took some sort of a solution and he mixed it in the powder. And then he took a nasal syringe and he sucked it up and shot it up her nose.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 this made her feel sedated.

Speaker 7 And then

Speaker 7 they took out a long tube, looked like a toothpaste tube or something, and this had a cream in it. And the guy that was holding her mouth from behind, he started to smear this cream all over her face.

Speaker 7 And as he was doing it,

Speaker 7 the guy in front said, be careful, be careful. Don't put too much on.
Don't apply too much because you're going to ruin the flesh. That's what she said.

Speaker 8 In English?

Speaker 7 So this is the first time that now we're hearing testimony that these assailants, of these assailants speaking.

Speaker 7 They spoke in Spanish.

Speaker 8 In Spanish.

Speaker 7 Yeah, so she referred to the larger. One was taller than the other.
The larger one was taller than me. The the other one was at least as tall as me, if not taller.

Speaker 7 She referred to the larger one as the gringo

Speaker 7 and the shorter one, who was still taller than me, as the as the Peruvian.

Speaker 7 Because

Speaker 7 when they spoke, the larger one had a gringo accent, Spanish accent, and the other one sounded just like them. He sounded Peruvian, so he didn't have an accent.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 so as after they applied this stuff to her face,

Speaker 7 they take out what what we think what Doug and I think is a laser scalpel they take out this little device that that that has like a laser light on it

Speaker 7 and they begin to make an incision under her jawline and she starts to struggle and so they actually

Speaker 7 start restarted the incision so you you can see in photos of her and in the videos that I published on YouTube you can see the two incision lines one was here and then the other one right under

Speaker 7 and as they're beginning to cut under her jawline she's struggling.

Speaker 7 This is the, you know, the last energy she has. She starts to freak out.
And she gets her hand underneath the helmet of the guy behind her that still has his hand over her mouth, right?

Speaker 7 And she starts to lift up on the helmet.

Speaker 7 And he starts, he gets agitated and he freaks out a little bit because he doesn't want his face to be seen, apparently. That's what she told me.
He freaks out for a second and they drop her.

Speaker 7 And when they drop her, she lets out a blood-curdling scream.

Speaker 7 And remember,

Speaker 7 the villages are in a state of high vigilance. So they're sitting, the men are all sitting

Speaker 7 in front of their houses with shotguns and flashlights. This is not the first incursion.
They know something's going on. They are aware of these assailants, so they're ready.

Speaker 7 So when she screams, her brother and a group of other villagers who live in proximity to her house come running instantly. Like they're on the scene in 20 seconds.

Speaker 7 And I talked to them. They showed up with their flashlights and their shotguns.

Speaker 7 And what they saw was Talia laying on the ground, bloodied up, blood all over her face and neck. She's passed out at this point.

Speaker 7 And the assailants are hovering like this

Speaker 7 on their circular platforms. And Talia, before she passed out, after she screamed, she said that the assailants said,

Speaker 7 Let's go, let's go, we got to get out of here. And then one of them said, No, we can't just leave her here.
And so they tried to drag her up the hill as they're floating

Speaker 7 on their platforms. They tried to drag her up the hill, but they dropped her because the other villagers were on the scene.

Speaker 7 And so the villagers are there with their flashlights trained on these guys, two of them, and they maneuver to where there's an opening in the canopy and they shoot up through the canopy.

Speaker 7 And Talia was, of course,

Speaker 7 unconscious, and her face had swollen up. She said whatever that cream was that they applied to her face, it made her face swell up, made her flesh swell up on her face.
They took Talia

Speaker 7 to a village down the river where they have a better medical installation, and they treated her wounds.

Speaker 7 And eventually, when she came to, which I think was the next day, her face was swollen for three days.

Speaker 7 She was in the medical facility for a while. They diagnosed her with severe PTSD

Speaker 7 after this event. And she had severe PTSD when I was talking to her, trembling.

Speaker 7 She was talking very quietly and obviously just

Speaker 7 very traumatized. And her father was traumatized.
Her father was there as we were talking. He was filling in some of the details.

Speaker 7 And so obviously something horrific had happened to this young girl. And her testimony synchronizes with what everyone else was saying.

Speaker 7 So, apparently, somebody was out there in the Peruvian Amazon with advanced technology, certainly advanced hoverboard technology, but not just that, advanced aerospace vehicles that could hover silently in the air

Speaker 7 and was terrorizing this village for some unknown reason.

Speaker 7 Definitely not miners with jetpacks.

Speaker 7 Now, there was another incident

Speaker 7 that I mentioned earlier. This was happening, by the way, in various villages.
This was not the only village.

Speaker 8 Has this been happening anywhere else?

Speaker 7 This was happening in various villages in Alto Nanai, in that region of Peru, and in other regions of the Peruvian Amazon.

Speaker 7 Reports of the face peelers were surfacing everywhere. So let me address the face peeler thing real quick.
So Pelacada, face peeler, this is a legend that goes back decades in Peru.

Speaker 7 When

Speaker 7 I lived there for 10 years in the Peruvian Amazon, when I lived there, I heard of the legend of the face peelers. And this was sort of like a face peeler was sort of like a boogeyman.

Speaker 7 And the mothers would tell their children, don't go out alone at night because the face peeler will get you.

Speaker 7 And the villagers, the indigenous people, they had, there was no consensus on who the face peelers were. Some of them thought the face peelers were extraterrestrials, aliens.

Speaker 7 They can't be human precisely because of this technology that's being deployed, right?

Speaker 7 Others believe that the face peelers were gringos who were there to harvest organs and for whatever reason to harvest faces.

Speaker 7 This phenomenon, this legend goes back to the mid to early 80s, but not further back than that. It began in the 80s.

Speaker 7 And I know that for a fact because I talked to the guys in the village and they specifically told me that their fathers told them about the peeler phenomenon, but it was not happening in the time of their grandfathers.

Speaker 7 So it was happening in the 80s. That's when it began.
So this was not the first encounter with a phenomenon similar to what these people were experiencing.

Speaker 7 And that's why they started calling it the pelecara, that these are pelacaras, because for them, this was somewhat familiar.

Speaker 7 There had been in the past and during

Speaker 7 this particular episode in the Peruvian Amazon, individuals

Speaker 7 who were discovered with their face removed or with half of their face removed. I published a YouTube video in

Speaker 7 which this video got age-restricted precisely because of this footage that was in the video of a young man that was being carried out of the river.

Speaker 7 By some police officers, and it's apparent that his face, three quarters of his face, had been surgically removed.

Speaker 7 This was not

Speaker 7 the result of piranhas chewing on his face. Piranhas leave nicks.
I mean, they can clean the bone really well. But

Speaker 8 it's precision cuts.

Speaker 7 These are precision. This is laser cuts around the guy's face.
And the flesh of his face is totally gone. You just see the skeletal structure beneath.
That sort of thing

Speaker 7 has been fairly common in the Peruvian Amazon, again, going back to the 80s.

Speaker 7 Now, when I say fairly common, I don't mean like every week or every month or even every year, but every now and again, somebody would turn up like that and hence

Speaker 7 face peeler. That's why they call them face peelers.

Speaker 7 When I was there, just about a week or two before I arrived, maybe a few weeks before I arrived, there was an incident that happened to a young boy from a different village called Bakasan.

Speaker 7 And I learned about this when I was in Nauta.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 this boy, he had been attacked, same description, the assailants had the same description, black armored bodysuits, the whole situation was the same.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 they had cut into his neck under the jaw on both sides. And as they were apparently attempting to remove his face, somehow the boy was rescued.

Speaker 7 I don't know the details of how he was rescued, but somebody showed up on the scene and the assailants fled.

Speaker 7 This boy, there's footage of him in Peru, like they put everything on TV. The news will display really

Speaker 7 graphic

Speaker 7 car accident. They'll show the whole thing without blurring anything.
So there's clips of this boy with these deep lacerations under his jawline and his neck.

Speaker 7 And he looks like he has two gills cut into his neck, just like the skin is just flapping and it's just pouring blood. And there is a footage of this boy.
He's probably nine or ten years old

Speaker 7 sitting in the clinic and just obviously in a state of shock. He lost a lot of blood.
Fortunately, they were able to save his life.

Speaker 7 They sewed him up, they gave him some blood, and he survived. But he was attacked by the same phenomenon.

Speaker 7 We went to Nauta to investigate a particular case. There was a video that surfaced in Nauta that somebody,

Speaker 7 the villagers were freaking out, it's nighttime. They're pointing at something with their flashlight.

Speaker 7 And this something that they're pointing at, that they're highlighting with the flashlight that they're illuminating it looks like

Speaker 7 looks like like an alien like a gray a big gray alien up in the tree that's kind of moving and you know I don't know if it is or not but but you could imagine that that it that it could be something like that because the guy who's training his flashlight on it is saying there it is there it is it's right there do you see it it's right there in the video

Speaker 7 and so I wanted to go investigate this I wanted to see I wanted to look at this location during daylight hours. And now understand

Speaker 7 the city of Iquitos, which is a fairly large city in the Peruvian Amazon, you can't, it itself is remote, even though it's got a fairly large population.

Speaker 7 The only way to get to Iquitos is by boat or by airplane. There's no roads.
The only place you can get by road from Iquitos is Nauta.

Speaker 7 And Iquitos is where the Amazon River begins, by the way.

Speaker 7 That's

Speaker 7 where the Amazon River begins. So this is intense Amazon jungle out here.

Speaker 7 And Nauta is like about, I don't know, maybe like an hour to an hour and 20-minute drive from Iquitos. It's the only place you can get by road.
Nauta has a population of 35,000.

Speaker 7 It's not a village. It's a city.

Speaker 7 And Nauta has,

Speaker 7 there's a military installation there.

Speaker 7 The Navy has a presence. The Army has a presence.
There's Army and Navy bases in Iquitos.

Speaker 7 There's a large police force. There's helicopters on site.

Speaker 7 There's Navy vessels on the river there.

Speaker 7 It's a very well defended area.

Speaker 8 A lot of infrastructure.

Speaker 7 We're not talking about a little village anymore.

Speaker 7 We're not talking about some remote village out there where maybe river miners want to drive these people off their land so that they can mine the river. That narrative is dead.

Speaker 7 because the same phenomenon was happening in Nauta. And nobody's driving 35,000 inhabitants out of that place, right? And again, you've got helicopters in play now.

Speaker 7 You've got automatic weapons in play in regard to

Speaker 7 the armaments of the police force and the military there.

Speaker 7 So it's much more risky environment for these assailants to be operating in. Nevertheless, they were operating in Nauta.

Speaker 7 When I went, I found the location I wanted to see during the day, and I interviewed the neighbors who live out in front, and I learned that

Speaker 7 aside from this event where they were training their flashlight on something in the jungle, and it was like above a house. I learned that it was actually behind the house.

Speaker 7 The trees were actually further back than I had thought initially from the video.

Speaker 7 They said that they were seeing flying saucers and that there was a large saucer that had perched above this house, above this tree, and it shot a light down.

Speaker 7 And there was like, you know, half a dozen witnesses to this.

Speaker 7 And they said that,

Speaker 7 and this was all happening at the same time as

Speaker 7 the incidents out in the jungle. And they told me that on the outskirts of Nauta, they would hear gunshots going off.

Speaker 7 And when they would talk to the police officers or to the villagers who happened to be walking around at night, coming in from hunting or whatever,

Speaker 7 to the inhabitants, not villagers, but the inhabitants of Nauta, they described the same exact phenomenon.

Speaker 7 Individuals who were dressed, people who were dressed in black armored bodysuits flying around on these circular platforms. Now that's really important because as I said,

Speaker 7 the narrative that jetpack miners driving people off, driving these indigenous people off their land,

Speaker 7 impossible. That is not the case.
That narrative is dead in the water. That's not going to happen

Speaker 7 in a city, 35,000 inhabitants. It's just not going to happen.
So something else is going on. And I don't know what that something else is, but the phenomenon is deadly serious and it's real.

Speaker 7 And not just the people in San Antonio and Pinto Yaco, but the people in Nauta that I talked to,

Speaker 7 Antoniquos,

Speaker 7 it's not a joke to them.

Speaker 7 And none of them, by the way, believe it's miners with jetpacks.

Speaker 7 I was able to, we had a couple of meetings with the villagers, with the elders, and with the men of the village, and I

Speaker 7 proposed to them this idea that the media had run with: that these are miners, river miners, wearing jetpacks. They laughed.

Speaker 7 They literally all burst out laughing at the notion that that was the explanation of the phenomenon. And finally, while we were still out in San Antonio Pintoyaku,

Speaker 7 Doug and the Navy guys that

Speaker 7 were accompanying us, they actually trained the

Speaker 7 villagers, the men, how to conduct a proper patrol. So they they trained them how to march

Speaker 7 in a patrol line.

Speaker 7 They taught them how to turn in a synchronized fashion so they don't shoot each other and all of that.

Speaker 7 Doug divided the village into sectors so that they could communicate with the radios that we brought them. And it was really impressive.
I mean,

Speaker 7 they adapted to this training very quickly. And then they were executing the training at nighttime.

Speaker 7 As we were sitting in our riverboat, Doug would be communicating with them on a radio, and we would watch them walking the patrol the way that they were trained to do, communicating with the radios using the night vision goggles and the thermal goggles.

Speaker 7 And it was really cool that

Speaker 7 they took to that so quickly, and they were very enthusiastic. And since our investigation,

Speaker 7 the phenomenon has ceased.

Speaker 8 It hasn't happened again.

Speaker 7 No. And I've been in contact with the village, and every from time to time I check in,

Speaker 7 and

Speaker 7 it's all quiet out there. They've not been revisited by that phenomenon.
And it's died down

Speaker 7 in the Peruvian Amazon, generally speaking. Now, I'm going to tell you one more incident.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 when I came back, somebody,

Speaker 7 this individual, contacted me on X.

Speaker 7 and provided me with the contact number of

Speaker 7 this person in the city of Yurimaguas in the Peruvian Amazon, who they wanted me to call and interview.

Speaker 7 Because this person apparently had had a close encounter with a Pela Cara, with one of these assailants. And I believe his name is Pablo.
I'm familiar with the city of Yurimaguas.

Speaker 7 I've been there on many occasions. And so I called him on a cell phone, and we discussed the incident.
And what he told me was that one evening, he lives

Speaker 7 in a homestead. So it's not even a village, it's a homestead in the jungle, and outside of the city of Yurimaguas.

Speaker 7 He told me that one evening, he was bathing in the river, just as the sun was going down, and him and a couple of other guys were bathing in the river.

Speaker 7 And somebody started shouting from one of the houses in the homestead, Pelacada, Pelacada.

Speaker 7 And he came running out of the river. He threw a towel around his waist.
He runs into his house and he grabs a shotgun and and a flashlight

Speaker 7 and then he starts to to look for the the intruders and he sees them he sees two guys sort of snooping around the outskirts of this homestead describes them in the exact same way black armored bodysuits the helmets the almond-shaped eyelenses and he pursues

Speaker 7 and he starts to chase these guys through the jungle And they're running and he's running behind them.

Speaker 7 And he gets close enough to actually discharge his firearm at them and he hears the dinking of his bird shot off their body armor.

Speaker 7 And he said the first guy, and I get the impression that they ran back to their platforms. The first guy

Speaker 7 took off.

Speaker 7 He accelerated into the sky. The second guy was having a hard time because apparently

Speaker 7 this Pablo damaged his suit.

Speaker 7 He's having a hard time lifting off the ground. And so Pablo says that he sprinted at the guy and tackled him.
He grabbed him around the waist.

Speaker 7 And as he had him, was holding him around the waist, this

Speaker 7 assailant was attempting to lift off into the sky, but he couldn't do it. And he took out, the assailant took out

Speaker 7 some sort of a laser device. and shot Pablo with it.
Like

Speaker 7 he flashed it on him, and Pablo instantly went unconscious.

Speaker 7 And he woke up to his father and his brother were arousing him, and he had to go to the hospital because he had heart trouble. And he's been diagnosed with,

Speaker 7 the timing of his heart is off. So something, like

Speaker 7 some sort of electrical pulse was discharged into his body, and

Speaker 7 he now has a heart condition because of it. Pablo was deadly serious about this whole incident.
And

Speaker 7 it's just a confirmation. And this happened later on.
This happened a couple of months after the incursions into San Antonio de Pintuyacu in Nauta and in Ato Nanay.

Speaker 7 So what the heck is going on? I mean, what is this?

Speaker 7 This is very, very disturbing. And

Speaker 7 one final detail.

Speaker 7 It happened that during this period of time, from the end of June to the end of July, there was a joint military operation happening in Peru.

Speaker 7 It was called Resolute Sentinel.

Speaker 7 And it involved eight different nations, including the United States.

Speaker 7 It was headed by the United States, the United States, Great Britain, Ecuador, Bolivia, Bolivia, Panama, Uruguay, and a couple of other, Brazil, and Peru.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 it involved the Air Force, it involved the Marines, it involved Space Force, it involved the Coast Guard and a couple of other

Speaker 8 agencies. This is verified?

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 7 It's called, as I said, it's called

Speaker 7 Resolute Sentinel 2023.

Speaker 7 And they were running operations in Peru.

Speaker 7 And it was primarily based, like I think it was primarily sea-based operations. and ostensibly like rescue type missions and stuff like that.
But it was a big operation.

Speaker 7 And I was told when I was in Peru, I talked to general in Peru, a Navy general, and I interviewed him first in Lima before I went out to the jungle, to the village.

Speaker 7 And we talked about this face peeler phenomenon, which he completely blew off. He didn't think it, he thought it was, you know, he bought the jetpack miner explanation.

Speaker 7 But he confirmed that there was a joint operation underway.

Speaker 7 He was retired, but very, very prestigious guy in Peru, high up in the Navy. He was an admiral.

Speaker 7 and he told me that there was actually military assets on the amazon um navy assets on the amazon i don't know peruvian u.s probably brazilian or something and that it was there was it was it was quite unusual and that there was a lot of assets deployed for this training exercise resolute sentinel 2023 and it just so happens to coincide

Speaker 7 with these incursions into the village, with the with the face peeler phenomenon from the end of June to the end of July.

Speaker 7 Now for whatever that's worth I don't know strange coincidence.

Speaker 7 So I wondered and this is

Speaker 7 I probably don't believe this but but here's a hypothesis.

Speaker 7 You know how sometimes these

Speaker 7 military operations are used as a cover for so you have like an op that's that's

Speaker 7 a cover, like a Resolute Sentinel, for example. They're doing training and they're doing you know training for rescue missions and so forth.

Speaker 7 But maybe sometimes that can be a cover for an actual operation that's happening in the country or in the region, in the theater. By the way, this was

Speaker 7 Southcom. This was Southern Command.

Speaker 7 And it was headed by the Air Force.

Speaker 7 It's possible, at least,

Speaker 7 let's just put it in these terms.

Speaker 7 There's a chance, and I'm not saying I buy this. I'm just going to throw this out there.
What if there was a serious threat?

Speaker 7 Something out there in the jungle, human or non-human, whatever, there's some kind of a threat out there, and they're using Resolute Sentinel 2023 as a cover to run an actual op in the jungle to combat that threat.

Speaker 7 That's one, you know, that's like, I think, I like to think of that as the predator hypothesis, right?

Speaker 7 Like there's something, some bizarre phenomenon happening in the jungle, like the Predator movie, and they send in commandos under the cover of this Resolute Sentinel and assets.

Speaker 7 That way they can place assets in the region without drawing attention. Oh, they're just running Resolute Sentinel 2023.

Speaker 7 The other option I don't like. The other option is that

Speaker 7 this is part of the op. This is part of, they're testing some kind of technology.
That one I don't like because that would implicate

Speaker 7 the United States government.

Speaker 7 in this nefarious activity. And I don't like that one, and I don't really believe that that's a plausible plausible explanation.

Speaker 7 But a lot of people always inevitably throw that out there whenever I talk about this.

Speaker 8 Well, I don't think the U.S. government would be

Speaker 8 working with Uruguay or Ecuador or Bolivia

Speaker 8 or any country like that.

Speaker 8 They're just not near as technologically advanced.

Speaker 7 Do you? Well, they were. Resolute Sentinel involved, all of those things.

Speaker 8 I mean, as far as like an operation.

Speaker 7 No, the would be the that the resolute sentinel would be the cover. I get it.

Speaker 8 I get it, but I don't think that they would involve all these other countries.

Speaker 7 I have no idea. I don't really have, I mean, you would know better than me.
I don't know.

Speaker 7 But it isn't, it is

Speaker 7 an interesting coincidence. I mean, it's part of the picture.

Speaker 7 They may be totally disassociated. It's just, I think it's an important detail to

Speaker 7 add into this equation.

Speaker 8 Has this been happening anywhere else in the world? No. Only in Peru.

Speaker 7 Now, I heard that, and I'm not sure, I never was able to verify this, but I heard that the phenomenon was happening right across the border in the Brazilian Amazon, right across the border with Peru.

Speaker 7 So generally speaking, the same region of the jungle. I was not able to verify that, but

Speaker 7 there were,

Speaker 7 as I said, multiple villages involved in this. Multiple villages.

Speaker 8 What do you, I mean, what do you think it was?

Speaker 7 Well,

Speaker 7 if Talia's, if her recall of the incident that happened to her is accurate, and the reason why I say that is, remember that they sedated her, that they shot that stuff up into her nose,

Speaker 7 and she's got severe PTSD. So it is possible that Talia,

Speaker 7 previous to this assault,

Speaker 7 was convinced that these were gringo, the face peelers were gringos and they were there harvesting organs and stuff. So that when

Speaker 7 they assaulted her, she confabulated some of the details, like hearing them speak.

Speaker 7 That's possible. She has severe PTSD and that does happen.
And she maybe

Speaker 7 recalls hearing them speak when in reality they didn't. That possibility has to be considered because that's a real phenomenon.
Especially with the people.

Speaker 8 I don't know about that. I mean,

Speaker 8 a lot of times when people go through traumatic experiences,

Speaker 8 that's just what they always go back to and they remember it like it was yesterday. Yeah.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 Yeah, and that's also very possible. So that's the second possibility is she recalled everything precisely as it happened.
And if she's accurate in her recall, then these are

Speaker 7 human beings. One of them apparently is a gringo.

Speaker 7 One of them is a Peruvian.

Speaker 7 And they're with some unknown

Speaker 7 maybe transnational aerospace corporation. I don't know.
I mean, what are the explanations here? What could this be? Obviously, this is exceedingly nefarious.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 one thing that baffles me, if these guys are out there to harvest faces and they've got all this advanced technology, then why do they suck so bad at their job?

Speaker 7 right you would think that they'd be able to take faces left and right and you know they can blow into town and take 10 10 faces and leave. Why the extended

Speaker 8 extra? Why wouldn't they just take the entire specimen?

Speaker 7 That's right, exactly.

Speaker 7 And maybe they intended to with Talia. They're horrible kidnappers.

Speaker 8 Right. They're horrible kidnappers.

Speaker 7 They're really bad.

Speaker 8 They're kidnapped all the time.

Speaker 7 They're really bad at peeling faces if they're face peelers. So it seems to me that the operation is more...
a terror operation.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 let's consider this for a moment. Let's say that maybe these assailants are using the face peeler legend as cover for some other operation that's going on in the jungle.
This is another possibility.

Speaker 7 And they want the villagers to think and to perpetuate the idea that the face peelers are here.

Speaker 7 And so all they would need to do in that case is terrorize the villages, every now and again

Speaker 7 abduct somebody, or

Speaker 7 that's why they would drop the person and take off, for example, instead of, you know,

Speaker 8 that would just bring heightened awareness, though.

Speaker 7 Yeah,

Speaker 7 but

Speaker 8 it would bring more attention.

Speaker 7 But maybe they want that specific attention. Maybe they want the face peeler narrative out there for whatever reason.
Like, to me, that's what seems the most plausible to me is

Speaker 7 they're not really interested in harvesting faces because if they were,

Speaker 7 apparently they can do it

Speaker 7 with

Speaker 7 ease with all this technology that they have. Why would they be making these continual incursions into the village?

Speaker 7 And by the way, I didn't say this, but some of the villagers told me that they were literally being terrorized.

Speaker 7 So they were huddling in their houses at nighttime in San Antonio Pintuyacu, okay, in July.

Speaker 7 The families would huddle in their houses, and they would have whatever weapons that they, machetes, whatever weapons that they had on hand.

Speaker 7 And when the face peelers would come, it was terrorizing. This one lady said that,

Speaker 7 again, what they're they're calling face peelers would be pulling on the boards of her house and knocking on the boards of their house, like to intentionally terrorize them.

Speaker 7 And she said, one of the time she walked out of her house because they heard commotion, her and her family members walked out of the house with flashlights and they saw two things.

Speaker 7 They saw one of those acorn-shaped craft hovering above the village, and they saw a couple of these guys in the bodysuits. One of them jumped over the house.

Speaker 7 And she drew in the dirt the shape of the craft. It was the same, same thing everybody else drew.

Speaker 7 So, like,

Speaker 7 why? What's going on? They're terrorizing these villagers.

Speaker 7 Why?

Speaker 7 That's the question. And I don't know the answer.

Speaker 7 I'm totally baffled by this thing. I can tell you that it happened.

Speaker 7 It happened.

Speaker 7 But what is the nature of this phenomenon? I have no idea.

Speaker 7 Quite frankly, it's terrifying.

Speaker 8 Man, I can't think of any reason that that would happen.

Speaker 7 Whatever it is,

Speaker 7 it's ominous.

Speaker 7 A little bit reminiscent of the drone situation that was going on here

Speaker 7 last year or this past fall, right? I can't remember the exact timeframe that that was happening.

Speaker 7 But we had those drones hovering

Speaker 7 in different parts of the country, New Jersey, New York. I don't know about New York, but New Jersey, the East Coast, some were spot over Washington, D.C.
That whole situation was, to me,

Speaker 7 it had face peeler vibes. I mean, it was just, there seemed to be no

Speaker 7 logical explanation.

Speaker 7 And there really has never been any explanation. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 7 It's, it's, it's, it feels like.

Speaker 8 Those weren't little acorn things or big acorns, big acorns.

Speaker 7 Yes, they were the size of SUVs and

Speaker 7 but it's reminiscent to me.

Speaker 7 It's reminiscent. This bizarre phenomenon that's just going on for multiple days.

Speaker 8 Since the 80s.

Speaker 7 No, I'm talking about the drone phenomenon.

Speaker 8 Oh, oh, oh, the drones. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I'm just saying it's that when I saw the drone phenomenon

Speaker 7 happening on the east coast of America,

Speaker 7 it gave me face peeler vibes.

Speaker 7 You know, it seemed to be, there seemed to be no logical explanation. Why are these drones just day after day, night after night, continually hovering around New Jersey?

Speaker 7 And the government is being very mum about the whole thing.

Speaker 7 The explanations that are coming forth don't make any sense.

Speaker 7 There's like mass,

Speaker 7 there's mass hysteria breaking out, because mass hysteria is part of the face peeler phenomenon as well. That's definitely in the equation, mass hysteria.

Speaker 7 That certainly was happening during the drone incident on the East Coast. There was mass hysteria.
So there was a lot of people thinking they were seeing a drone and they weren't.

Speaker 7 They were seeing an airplane or a helicopter. But there was a lot of people who were legitimately seeing these things.
And it just, it has the same sort of

Speaker 7 mystique as the face peeler stuff. And very, very bizarre.

Speaker 8 Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 7 Could I take a break?

Speaker 8 Yeah, let's take a break.

Speaker 8 All right, Tim, we're back from the break. We had a nice lunch there, and I'm trying to wrap my head around

Speaker 8 why that happened.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 7 I mean,

Speaker 8 it kind of, when you were talking about it, it reminded me of this conversation I had with this guy, Michael Herrera, who had an encounter.

Speaker 8 I'm a little, it's been years since I chatted with him, but it was basically some type of a human trafficking thing, it sounded like,

Speaker 8 this is a long time ago.

Speaker 8 But

Speaker 8 I don't think this is human trafficking.

Speaker 7 Yeah, no, I agree. I think it is reminiscent of Herrera's testimony.
And if I recall,

Speaker 7 Herrera was deployed to, I think it was Indonesia

Speaker 7 after a natural disaster. And they were doing like rescue ops.

Speaker 7 And he was with a platoon.

Speaker 7 I think it was Marines. I could be getting this wrong.
And

Speaker 7 they stumbled upon a craft, a large disk, hovering out there in the jungle in a clearing. And

Speaker 7 they learned, you know, without going into all the details, which I'm foggy on as well,

Speaker 7 they were confronted with human beings dressed in fatigues. So obviously this was some kind of, this technology

Speaker 7 was being operated by human beings. And

Speaker 7 he seems to think it had something to do with human trafficking. And that's interesting to me because if you're in the business of human trafficking,

Speaker 7 what better opportunity do you have than to go in after a natural disaster

Speaker 7 when thousands of people are already missing? I mean,

Speaker 7 that would seem to be the appropriate moment to go in and harvest human beings. So this phenomenon in Peru, the face-peeler phenomenon,

Speaker 7 there's echoes of Herrera's testimony here.

Speaker 7 It seems to me that there's a nefarious, maybe transnational faction that is in possession of advanced technology, perhaps, perhaps derived from non-human technology.

Speaker 7 And whatever they're doing,

Speaker 7 it's obviously

Speaker 7 terrorizing and it's nefarious.

Speaker 7 But what exactly are they doing? Why are they terrorizing these villagers? Why are they cutting their faces off? Are they harvesting something from the glands?

Speaker 7 Do they want to terrorize the people first before they harvest whatever they are?

Speaker 8 I just don't understand that.

Speaker 8 If they wanted to harvest something, if they wanted to traffic, I mean, they're horrible kidnappers. They've got amazing tech, but they're obviously really bad at kidnapping.

Speaker 8 It's not that damn hard to kidnap somebody.

Speaker 7 They suck at peeling faces.

Speaker 8 You could do with

Speaker 8 an Astro van.

Speaker 7 Right.

Speaker 8 I mean, but.

Speaker 8 But, and, and even if they were harvesting, why wouldn't they just kidnap them and then do it there? You know?

Speaker 7 It makes no sense.

Speaker 8 I mean, how remote are these villages?

Speaker 7 San Antonio Pinto Yaku is a two-day trip up the river. And like I said, it's the last, really,

Speaker 7 it's the last vestige of civilization before a vast track of uninhabited rainforest.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 so it is exceedingly remote.

Speaker 8 But they have communications and

Speaker 8 there's other villages.

Speaker 7 Yes, and the other

Speaker 8 no communications, so that's right. couldn't even get out.

Speaker 7 That's right.

Speaker 8 You know, so I don't even know why they would target that.

Speaker 7 That's a good point. Yeah, but remember, they were doing the same, running the same operation in Nauta and 35,000 inhabitants.
Military installation,

Speaker 7 police force, helicopters. That's not a soft target.

Speaker 8 Yeah, no, not at all. And

Speaker 8 like I mentioned earlier,

Speaker 8 I don't think it was a

Speaker 8 lateral multi-national

Speaker 8 mission not with especially with those countries I mean just so far behind no I don't think those other countries I don't personally think that the the U.S.

Speaker 7 government had anything to do with this but is it possible that there was an op running that that op was running cover the the resolute sentinel op was cover for like like i described earlier like a predator type operation where you got commandos going into the jungle trying to do that these things happen all the time even at even at the low level that i was at.

Speaker 8 You know, in

Speaker 8 the SEAL team, just for example, we did a, we set up a medical site that was technically a legitimate

Speaker 8 a legitimate medical site, but the whole premise was to lure Taliban in so that we could kill him.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 because we advertised it and got put out like, hey, if you guys need medical. So it brought a lot of attention and we thought that, you know,

Speaker 8 so that was an op that was a cover op.

Speaker 8 It was a legitimate op.

Speaker 8 Much obviously lower scale than something like this, but I just, I can't wrap my head around it. I can't believe more people aren't talking about it.

Speaker 7 You know, my colleague Richard Dolan, who's a UFO historian, he coined a term years ago, breakaway civilization.

Speaker 7 And what he meant by breakaway civilization was pondering this idea: is there a faction among the human species who has possession of exceedingly advanced technology that basically allows them to live in a world, a technological world that

Speaker 7 is, you know,

Speaker 7 it's like us today compared to people living at the turn of the century in the early 1900s, right? That would be the technological gap we're talking about, like a hundred-year gap.

Speaker 7 And if such a breakaway civilization exists, what are they doing with that technology?

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I think

Speaker 7 that's a plausible thesis. I think there may at this point be such a thing as a breakaway civilization, that there are factions,

Speaker 7 whether they be

Speaker 7 transnational corporations or cartels or whatever, or aerospace companies,

Speaker 7 that are in possession of technology that would completely transform human society.

Speaker 7 But rather than use it to transform human society, rather than use it to solve the hunger problem, rather than use it to solve the energy problem,

Speaker 7 to lift people out of poverty in the third world, apparently they're using it for nefarious purposes, terrorizing people in the Amazon. And what else are they doing?

Speaker 7 That's why at the very beginning of this conversation,

Speaker 7 we were talking about the occult and the mystery schools. And to me, this feels like it's in that vein.
Like there's something going on here that is so dark

Speaker 7 and so dastardly that it... it would be difficult for normal people to contemplate, to

Speaker 7 conceive of this kind of a scenario where people would use advanced technology to do these terrible things.

Speaker 7 But all I can say is that's what happened in the Amazon. Somebody was deploying advanced technology, including aerospace technology,

Speaker 7 to terrorize these villagers.

Speaker 8 Have you poked holes in their story at all?

Speaker 7 Yeah, well, the thing is that there were so many witnesses,

Speaker 7 so many testimonies, both from San Antonio Pintuyaku, but then also in Nauta

Speaker 7 and in Iquitos, the city of Iquitos, that it's hard to deny something happened, and there's no reason for me to doubt that they saw what they saw. I mean, they were, and then of course you have

Speaker 7 Talia.

Speaker 7 There's no question that

Speaker 7 she was diagnosed with, in fact, I was shown the official

Speaker 7 letter from the doctor that she has severe PTSD. And I'll tell you that I paid for her to go to keto's to see a psychiatrist because she was so

Speaker 7 she was so psychologically damaged from this incident. And she wasn't faking.

Speaker 7 They didn't put on a show for me. Now, are they embellishing? Are they exaggerating? Are they

Speaker 7 recalling things that maybe didn't happen exactly the way that they remember? Probably. I have no doubt that that's the case.

Speaker 7 But are they just lying? Remember, the villagers were begging the Navy to protect them. Begging the Navy.
They weren't begging Gringos to come investigate.

Speaker 7 They weren't begging Gringos to come bring them food and technology. They were begging their government to protect them.

Speaker 7 That's what they wanted. protection.
They were asking the Navy to station a ship or some assets outside of the village on the river to watch over them until this phenomenon.

Speaker 8 Did they get a response from the government?

Speaker 7 Yeah, two police officers were dispatched from Iquidos to investigate the attempted abduction of Talia. They had a Navy escort up the river.
But the Navy was not involved in the investigation.

Speaker 7 And it's from these two police officers, by the way. That's where the jetpack miner narrative comes from.
Those two police officers concocted that narrative.

Speaker 7 And in defiance of the villagers, by the way,

Speaker 7 the villagers told them, no, we didn't see that. We didn't experience what you're saying we did.

Speaker 7 But the police officers, and they did a piss-poor investigation, if you could even call it an investigation. They just showed up and talked to some people and got on their boat and left.

Speaker 7 We were the only ones who actually went to the village to conduct

Speaker 7 a more thorough investigation.

Speaker 7 And we were there for a few days. So

Speaker 7 remember, I mean,

Speaker 7 to your question of did I poke holes in the story?

Speaker 7 If the villagers were asking for international aid or gringos, come help us or appealing to people using this story to try and get stuff, that would raise a red flag.

Speaker 7 But because their initial reaction, their only reaction was to beg their own government to protect them with the Navy,

Speaker 7 That is an indication that they're telling the truth

Speaker 7 because they're concerned about their well-being.

Speaker 7 That's the initial response, protect us.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I've conveyed what they told me.

Speaker 7 I did not see the phenomenon myself, although we were prepared to capture it. We had our own night vision recording capabilities.

Speaker 7 And we were, in fact, that was, we were hoping to capture the phenomenon. on camera.
We did not.

Speaker 7 And as I said before, it had subsided by the end of August anyway, and we didn't get there till October.

Speaker 8 You know, Peru has a long history of

Speaker 8 believing, or I don't know,

Speaker 8 in UFOs and extraterrestrial life. I mean, I've watched a ton of documentaries on Machu Picchu

Speaker 8 because of the precision cuts and stuff that are in those walls.

Speaker 8 What's your take on all of that?

Speaker 7 Peru is, you know,

Speaker 7 I like to

Speaker 7 quote

Speaker 7 Remington, and I don't know if this is an actual quote from Remington.

Speaker 7 I've heard that Remington said that Africa was the last best place for hunting, right? For hunting big game animals. That's how I feel about Peru.
Peru is the last best place for making discoveries.

Speaker 7 Peru is,

Speaker 7 it feels, so it feels wild still, and so much of it is still uncharted. You could say the same thing for the Amazon, for the Brazilian Amazon.
But in Peru,

Speaker 7 you have three distinct terrains all in one country. You have, of course, you have the Amazon jungle, the Amazon rainforest, which is the largest tropical forest on Earth.

Speaker 7 And then that runs directly into the Andean mountains, the Andes mountains. And the Andes are the second large, the second highest mountain range in the world.

Speaker 7 And then that, on the other side of the Andes, on the west coast of Peru, you have

Speaker 7 an

Speaker 7 inhospitable desert. And this is like the second driest place in the world.

Speaker 7 All of these extreme environments are in one country. And you can literally be in the Amazon, and then in the same day, you're in this lush jungle environment.

Speaker 7 And then the next day, or even the same day later on,

Speaker 7 you're in this

Speaker 7 hostile desert environment, literally the polar opposite of where you just were. It's really a mystifying country.
It still has deep connections with its culture.

Speaker 7 The jungle, the indigenous people in the jungle are still are still close to

Speaker 7 their cultural practices and traditions and beliefs. The Quechua people in the Andes and the

Speaker 7 various indigenous cultures up there are,

Speaker 7 in some areas of Peru, they only speak Quechua. They don't even speak Spanish.
So it's just,

Speaker 7 there's just just so much mystique, mystery,

Speaker 7 discovery waiting to happen in Peru, and it always draws me back. And then in the midst of all of this, you have some of the most remarkable megalithic edifices on the face of the planet.

Speaker 7 You have, for example, in Cusco, the walls, the magnificent megalithic walls of Saksaiwaman.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 some of the most precise masonry, cyclopean masonry you'll find anywhere.

Speaker 7 Ojante Tambo. And then, of course, the foundations of Machu Picchu are megalithic.

Speaker 8 How do you think they did it?

Speaker 8 Or do you think they did it?

Speaker 7 The Inca?

Speaker 7 The Inca were an extraordinary civilization. They were.

Speaker 7 The Inca were master road builders. The Inca were, they built incredible aqueducts.

Speaker 7 They were advanced. They were an advanced agrarian society.

Speaker 7 In many ways, they were the Romans of South America.

Speaker 7 They could build very impressive structures made of stone, stone structures, but I do not believe that they were capable of building Sacsaywaman. I do not.

Speaker 7 And they never claimed, by the way, to have built any of the megaliths in Peru.

Speaker 7 And I have a colleague of mine named Anselm Pirambla. Anselm, I've done a lot of work in Peru with Anselm.
He and I discovered a lost city in the Andes that we call Tauripunku.

Speaker 7 And we don't know if it's it's Inca or Chachapoyan we're not sure but but it was before we made we made the official discovery of this city what do you mean you discovered an ancient city

Speaker 7 um

Speaker 7 we were going for it we were contacted by someone who lived in a village in the andes and said hey there's some interesting ruins out here that that you guys specifically my colleague answer was contacted that you and he was told you should come investigate the these ruins they're they're they could be very significant So

Speaker 7 every time someone says, like me or anyone else, you know, we made this discovery, well, the local populations usually know about the thing, just like with Machu Picchu.

Speaker 7 Hiram Bingham officially discovered Machu Picchu, but the local populations knew about Machu Picchu. I mean, they knew the ruins were there.
In fact, they're the ones who brought him there.

Speaker 7 He wasn't looking for Machu Picchu. He was looking for, I think,

Speaker 7 Vilcabamba.

Speaker 7 And in the same way, this discovery we made, the locals, the villagers, were aware that there were ruins up there, so they contacted us, and we went in with a team on an expedition to explore the ruins.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 we determined that, indeed,

Speaker 7 this is a city. This isn't just a little settlement.
There's enough ruins up there that would constitute a city. It's an important city.
Now, we don't know

Speaker 7 who,

Speaker 7 again,

Speaker 7 who built the city, could be Inca, could be from the Chachapoyas culture.

Speaker 7 But we did make the official discovery of that location, of that, what we call Tauripunku.

Speaker 8 What's it like walking into that?

Speaker 7 You know,

Speaker 7 everything's covered in vegetation. This is in the Andes.

Speaker 7 So it's not jungle, but it's sort of, it's not cloud forest either. It's kind of an in-between zone.
It's very wet. And so you see a lot of ruins that have been consumed by the forest.

Speaker 7 I mean, you have stone walls that are literally, that have the roots of trees wrapped around them and growing on, full-grown trees growing on top of stone walls. There was no monumental architecture.

Speaker 7 In other words,

Speaker 7 there was no megalithic structures at Tauripunku,

Speaker 7 but there was a lot of stone structures, different configurations of both rectangular and circular edifices. And it's the circular edifices make us wonder if this is actually a Chachapoyan lost city.

Speaker 7 It's a lost city. And

Speaker 7 it's kind of surreal. Like you feel like you're in a movie when you're walking through there.
The problem is

Speaker 7 a lot of these lost cities, as I said, are known to the locals. The locals have known about them for generations, but they don't tell anybody.

Speaker 7 But what this means is that they've been ransacked. So the first thing that happens when a site like this is discovered is people go looking for artifacts to sell.

Speaker 7 And they go looking for jewelry, bracelets, gold, silver, precious stones. And so the sites get ransacked.

Speaker 7 Especially if the Juaqueros, the grave robbers, catch wind of it, they'll go in and absolutely empty it out indiscriminately.

Speaker 7 And what that does is it destroys all of the archaeological evidence that you would use to determine who built the place. Now, I'm not an archaeologist.

Speaker 7 I'm an explorer, researcher, explorer, so is Anselm.

Speaker 7 We did have

Speaker 7 some different individuals from different backgrounds on our team, but

Speaker 7 you're always hoping to find artifacts. That's what you're really looking for.
You're looking for pottery, you're looking for

Speaker 7 any kind of artifact that could help you identify the builder. And unfortunately, at Talbipunku, the place had been cleaned out.
And we were told that two mummies had been discovered there,

Speaker 7 or a series of mummies. A few mummies mummies had been discovered, and they were dressed in

Speaker 7 royal regalia.

Speaker 7 This is what we were told by the locals. They were dressed in royal regalia.
They had gold and silver, and that all of that was ransacked and removed. And then what they do,

Speaker 7 what they'll do,

Speaker 7 the waiqueros, the grave robbers, they'll go in and they'll ransack a lost city. or an archaeological site that hasn't officially been discovered yet.

Speaker 7 And then they cover their tracks by destroying everything. They destroy the bodies.
They get rid of

Speaker 7 all of the skeletal remains. So they absolutely contaminate the scene, so to speak.

Speaker 7 So that if archaeologists,

Speaker 7 by the time archaeologists get there,

Speaker 7 it's already been destroyed. That's a real problem in Peru.
That's a real problem.

Speaker 8 Were there any markings or

Speaker 7 we found skeletal remains?

Speaker 7 Yeah, we found skeletal remains. There's burials up there.

Speaker 7 And I was accompanied by my friend Chase Kalitzki,

Speaker 7 who's a certified forensic investigator. And so, you know, we looked at the remains, and there was nothing really remarkable about them, anomalous, except for there were signs of

Speaker 7 trepidation. I think I'm saying that word right.
What is that? It's where they make... the holes in the skull where they do surgery on the on the brain and they'll actually they'll cut the skull open

Speaker 7 and and they do something. Sometimes I think what they

Speaker 7 I think that that

Speaker 7 some of these ancient cultures

Speaker 7 maybe thought that if you opened up the skull you could release

Speaker 7 bad spirits or something like that or release the thoughts. I'm not sure what they were doing.
Nobody really knows why they did it.

Speaker 8 Did you get a date on the bones?

Speaker 7 No, we

Speaker 7 no, we didn't. We didn't get a date on the the bones.

Speaker 7 It's going to be Inca or Chachapoyas. It's going to be one of those two cultures.
We're convinced of that. It's one of those two cultures.
We're not sure which one.

Speaker 7 You know, it's going to require some archaeologists to follow up and go up there and

Speaker 7 make that determination.

Speaker 7 Has anybody done that? Not to my knowledge. No.
I published, we made a film. I published a series of films including this

Speaker 7 discovery, but those films are published in in my members' community. So we haven't gone public with the find yet because we were actually making a TV show.

Speaker 7 That's a long story. That's a really long story.
That's a crazy story, by the way. We were making a TV show in Peru.
And

Speaker 7 long story short, we ran into the Ika mob.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 we had to change gears. And so this TV show was going to be on a network, a big network.
And there was a whole

Speaker 7 it was a whole saga that unfolded. But we did film it.

Speaker 8 Damn, it would have been a good one.

Speaker 7 Oh, it would have been a great show.

Speaker 7 Originally, it was a treasure hunting show.

Speaker 7 And there was a

Speaker 7 crazy story

Speaker 7 that had to do with my friend Anselm. And Anselm is, I always refer to Anselm as the most interesting man in the world, Anselm Pirambla.

Speaker 7 By the way,

Speaker 7 returning to this

Speaker 7 topic of megaliths in Cusco,

Speaker 7 I think I mentioned to you, maybe I didn't mention to you, that we have, me and my partner Gary Haven,

Speaker 7 Gary Haven, the founder of Curves,

Speaker 7 the fitness franchise from the 90s, early 2000s. We procured, we are in possession of the art,

Speaker 7 a state-of-the-art aerial GPR unit.

Speaker 7 And which means basically we have a GPR unit that we can fly.

Speaker 7 It's on a drone platform.

Speaker 7 And it's very high resolution. It can see 300 feet beneath the surface of the Earth.
It's got two different antennas. One is a deep

Speaker 7 penetrating antenna. That's used to find structures.

Speaker 8 It's like that LiDAR stuff, huh?

Speaker 7 It's GPR. LiDAR is different.
We brought LiDAR, by the way,

Speaker 7 up to Tauripunku, but it kept falling out of the sky. For whatever reason,

Speaker 7 the drones just kept falling out of the sky. We brought a LiDAR team.
And it was LiDAR USA, really great guys, really

Speaker 7 professional guys. But there was something that was affecting

Speaker 7 something in the drones, the communication between the drone and the controller, and they just kept falling out of the sky until we lost them all.

Speaker 7 And we did get limited LIDAR data, which did confirm our suspicion that this was an important settlement. This was a lost city.

Speaker 7 Anyway, that's different from the aerial GPR unit that me and Gary Haven have. And that GPR unit,

Speaker 7 you can see the deep penetrating antenna for large structures. And then you can see under the right conditions, under the perfect conditions, we can see a corridor 15 feet under the ground.

Speaker 8 Wow.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 we were using this technology in Peru, doing different things.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 there's kind of a long backstory here, so I'm going to try and truncate this as best I can.

Speaker 7 So, when you read the history of Peru, obviously, the history of the conquest of Peru begins with Francisco Pizarro

Speaker 7 in the 1530s. He landed on the shores actually of Ecuador and then marched south into Peru, into the Inca territory,

Speaker 7 into their empire,

Speaker 7 with 176

Speaker 7 thereabouts, conquistadors.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 on his way,

Speaker 7 as Pizarro made his way south, he

Speaker 7 first he went to Cajamarca.

Speaker 7 This was his first encounter with

Speaker 7 the Inca,

Speaker 7 or at least certainly with Inca royalty, in Cajamarca. Cajamarca was an important Inca city.
And when Pizarro went to Cajamarca,

Speaker 7 The Inca knew he was coming. The Sapa Inca, the Inca king, Atahualpa was his name, he knew that Pizarro was coming.
And this is going to tie into the Cusco thing here in a minute.

Speaker 7 And so when Pizarro gets to Cajamarca, the city is vacated. Again, this is an Inca city.

Speaker 7 And the Spaniards don't know what's going on. Why is this beautiful city vacated? So they take up residence in the plaza, Pizarro and his conquistadors.

Speaker 7 And what happened was that the king, the Sapa Inca, knew that the Spaniards were coming and he wanted to meet them. And so he vacated the city and

Speaker 7 he had the Spaniards realize that they were surrounded because in the mountains around the city were thousands of Inca,

Speaker 7 thousands of Inca soldiers. And they lit their fires at night.
And the Spaniards were so frightened they were peeing their pants. This is recorded in the chronicles.

Speaker 7 Because they thought we're screwed. You know, there's 176 of them, 170, 70, some odd number of them.
Nobody knows the exact number, but there's 170 some of them.

Speaker 7 And they're totally surrounded by thousands of Inca.

Speaker 7 And and the Sapa Inca is with them.

Speaker 7 And the Sapa Inca, Atahualpa,

Speaker 7 we'll cut through some of the details here. Ultimately, he makes this grand procession into the city because he's going to meet these

Speaker 7 strange men dressed in metal who've come to his land, who've entered, encroaching upon his empire.

Speaker 7 And he wasn't sure if these were gods, because they thought maybe these are the Biracochas,

Speaker 7 the gods who were returning, the bearded gods. This is part of the the legends of the Inca, right? And he wanted to see: are these gods, who are these people?

Speaker 7 And so he makes a grand procession into the city, into

Speaker 7 Cajamarca, with dancers and music and all the pomp and circumstance of the Sapa Inca. And he enters the courtyard, and the Spaniards obviously saw him coming.

Speaker 7 And so, what they did was they set up their cannons and their gunners and everything around the courtyard. And the Inca had never seen a firearm of any kind.

Speaker 7 And I'm going somewhere with this. And the Inca,

Speaker 7 he's marched into the plaza, sitting on his litter, you know, being carried. The servants are carrying him on their shoulders, and he's sitting up on his litter.

Speaker 7 And there are so many Inca, they crammed into this plaza so they could barely move. And Pizarro sent out his priest, and the priest walks up to

Speaker 7 the Sapa Inca, the Inca king,

Speaker 7 with the Bible. And he hands him the Bible and basically, basically you know submit submit to to the Spanish crown and and and the church in Rome and Atahualpa takes the Bible and

Speaker 7 he doesn't know what he's never seen a book before and he looks at it he throws it on the ground and this gives Pizarro the pretext to open fire they open fire and they're unarmed by the way the Inca just bunch of

Speaker 7 bunch of

Speaker 7 Inca

Speaker 7 men crammed into this courtyard and the Spanish open fire and the cavalry charge and they capture Atahualpa. They slaughter all the guys in

Speaker 7 the courtyard. They capture the Sapa Inca.
This is like, they realize later that this is like chess, where if you capture the king, game over. The pieces don't move on the board anymore.

Speaker 7 This is part of the reason why the Spaniards were able to conquer the Inca with such ease. Part of the reason is because they checkmated the Inca early on at Cajamarca.
They captured the king.

Speaker 7 And the Inca, the mechanism of the empire didn't work without the king,

Speaker 7 without the Sapa Inca.

Speaker 7 So they capture Atahualpa. Long story short there,

Speaker 7 what happens next is what's called the ransom of Atahualpa. And Atahualpa tries to ransom his life by prompt, once he realized that the Spaniards wanted gold, he famously

Speaker 7 boasted to them that he could fill a room with gold and he put a marking up on the wall.

Speaker 7 I could fill this room with gold up to here and these two rooms with silver if you'll trade me for this, you know, as a ransom negotiation. So the the

Speaker 7 conquistadors, Pizarro and the conquistadors agreed to this. That's why they're there, right? They want gold.
So Atahualpa starts, he puts the word out and they start bringing the gold and silver.

Speaker 7 And he nearly does it. He nearly fills these two rooms, these three rooms up with gold and silver.
But Pizarro knows that

Speaker 7 this is the king. This is the most critical piece on the board, right?

Speaker 7 He's not going to let Atahualpa go free. So he has him executed.
And I should say, just as a side note, Atahualpa and Pizarro became very good friends.

Speaker 7 Pisaro wept at his execution, had him convert to Christianity so he could be strangled rather than burned at the stake.

Speaker 7 had him baptized.

Speaker 7 And then, this is where I'm connecting back to Cusco.

Speaker 7 The conquistadors begin their march back to Cusco because they learned that Cusco was the capital and that there was, that's where the real treasures of the Inca were, was in Cusco. Specifically,

Speaker 7 specifically,

Speaker 7 the epicenter of the Inca Empire was a temple of Inca culture. The epicenter of the culture of the empire was

Speaker 7 the temple called Coricancha.

Speaker 7 That's a Quechuan word and it means the place of gold. Coricancha was absolutely laden with gold and silver.
The walls were covered in plaques of gold.

Speaker 7 And they had at Coricancha, they had

Speaker 7 a garden, a life-size garden with life-size depictions of different animals and people and plants, stalks of corn, and all casted in pure gold and silver. The whole thing.

Speaker 7 So the Spanish catch wind of this. So they're making a beeline for Cusco to capture the capital city.
They already executed the king. Now they're going to get the capital city and all the treasure.

Speaker 7 Well, the Inca priests,

Speaker 7 obviously, they know the Spaniards are coming. So what do they do? In the Coricancha are the most important artifacts of the Inca Empire.

Speaker 7 This is where the great golden sun, this artifact that was cast in the form of a sun.

Speaker 7 This is where

Speaker 7 that artifact was, and all kinds of... In fact, in the Coricancha, they had the mummified remains of their previous Sapa Incas, previous Inca emperors.

Speaker 7 And on the winter solstice, which is a time called celebrated festival called Intiraimi in Peru, they would parade the corpses of these past Inca kings around as if they were still alive, right?

Speaker 7 So this was like,

Speaker 7 this was this most sacred place in the Inca Empire. The foundations of this temple are megalithic.
They're made of green diorite.

Speaker 7 But today, if you go to Coricancha, you'll see these exquisite andesite walls that are built in a cyclopean style.

Speaker 7 They're cyclopean, which means there's no mortar between the joints. They're fitted precisely together.

Speaker 7 I'm not sure if those walls,

Speaker 7 if the walls inside of the temple were built by the Inca,

Speaker 7 probably, okay, but this would represent the finest

Speaker 7 monumental architecture of the Inca.

Speaker 7 But that's not the point. The point is that the priests, priests,

Speaker 7 because the Spaniards were on their way and they knew what the Spaniards wanted now, they wanted the gold and silver artifacts, what did the priests do?

Speaker 7 They gathered

Speaker 7 a couple thousand of the Inca in Cusco and they began to collect all of the most important artifacts of the Inca, including many of those artifacts made of gold and silver.

Speaker 7 And they took them down into a tunnel,

Speaker 7 the entrance of which was beneath the temple of the coricancha.

Speaker 7 They took these artifacts down into the into this tunnel and this tunnel runs for one mile beneath this the coricancha beneath koricancha the the the the temple of the Inca

Speaker 7 to the galleries and caverns beneath the megalithic citadel of Saksaiwaman and it makes a straight line right

Speaker 7 Because according to legend beneath Saksaiwaman which is that megalithic site I referenced earlier there's there's a whole underground complex.

Speaker 7 And it was very important to the Inca. And this is allegedly, according to legend, this is where all these artifacts went.
They went to those chambers beneath that megalithic edifice.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 the Spaniards arrive, they siege the city of Cusco,

Speaker 7 they overthrow the Inca, they take possession of the city.

Speaker 7 the priests keep the secret. The Spaniards never learn about the tunnel.

Speaker 7 They never learn about the tunnel.

Speaker 7 So much of the gold and silver, and certainly the most important religious artifacts, go into the tunnel and make their way down to the galleries under that megalithic wall.

Speaker 7 The Spaniards never learn about it. They hear rumors of it, but it's only rumors.
And over the years, this has become a legend, a myth.

Speaker 7 So if you go to Cusco today, and you ask an archaeologist or an anthropologist or a historian about, it's called the Shinkana, by the way, the Shincana Grande specifically.

Speaker 7 If you ask them about the Shinkana, the Shinkana is that tunnel, they'll say, oh, that's just a legend. That's just a myth.

Speaker 7 Now, they'll admit that there was gold and silver artifacts of the life-size, they'll show you that today,

Speaker 7 where it was at the Coricancha that these life-size figurines were cast in gold and silver. That's all historical record.
But they'll tell you that the tunnel is a myth, doesn't exist.

Speaker 7 And nobody's found it. Nobody's found it until we found it.

Speaker 8 Get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 7 You found it. We found it.

Speaker 7 We found it.

Speaker 7 And me and Gary and Anselm Piramla together. Now, Anselm, I'm going to try and

Speaker 7 not digress too far into this, but Anselm

Speaker 7 has had the opportunity to do some unprecedented excavations in the city in Cusco.

Speaker 7 Anselm excavated at Saksai Waman. He excavated in front of the walls of Saksai Wamon.

Speaker 7 And later on, miraculously,

Speaker 7 he obtained permission to excavate in the Coricancha. Unprecedented.
Okay?

Speaker 7 When he was excavating at Saksaiwaman, he discovered at the lowest levels of that edifice only, exclusively pre-Incan artifacts. Wow.
No Inca artifacts were present at the lower levels.

Speaker 7 What does that indicate? The Inca didn't build those walls. Wow.
Only pre-Inca artifacts.

Speaker 7 And he has all of the, he had all of the proof.

Speaker 7 I've seen the artifacts, pictures of the artifacts. And I've been to Saksaiwamon with Anselm.
He walked me through the site and showed me where he excavated. And all of this is very well known.

Speaker 7 He was interviewed on Peruvian TV up in Cusco when they were doing their excavations. And I forget when this was.
I want to say it was back in the

Speaker 7 90s, I think. I don't recall.

Speaker 7 But while Anselm was excavating at the walls of Saksaiwaman, he heard about the rumor of the Shinkana.

Speaker 7 And he decided that he was going to take a couple of guys from his team, and they were going to go down to the Coricancha to investigate this legend.

Speaker 7 Now, understand that the Cori Cancha is only, it's there still today. You can go visit it in Cusco.

Speaker 7 And you still have the foundational level of the Coricancha. It's still there.
You still have the ruins. But there's a Catholic church, Santo Santo Domingo, that's built on top of it.

Speaker 7 There's a cathedral there, and there's a convent, the cathedral and convent of Santo Domingo. And

Speaker 7 it's owned, basically, it's overseen by the Dominican Order.

Speaker 7 And this is all very interesting because the new Pope is not a Dominican who spent much of his time in Peru.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 the Dominican order has been occupying the Cordi Cancha for centuries. The conquistadors gave it to the Dominican order.

Speaker 7 And so Anselm goes down

Speaker 7 to see if he can find out about this legend. And he meets with the prior of

Speaker 7 the order there, the head priest.

Speaker 7 And the prior receives him, and they sit down in his office. And Anselm says,

Speaker 7 I'm over here excavating at Saksai Waman, and I've heard about this legend of the Shinkana. And I'm just curious if it's true.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 the priest

Speaker 7 thinks about it for a minute, and he looks at Anselm and he says, yes, the legend is true. And then he says, would you like to see it?

Speaker 7 And Anselm is kind of in shock, like, yeah, of course. So

Speaker 7 the priest accompanies Anselm and a couple of his guys into the cathedral. They help him push an altar out of the way that's sitting there on the cathedral floor.

Speaker 7 And there's a trap door under this altar. They open the trapdoor.
They descend down these stairs into a crypt, a colonial crypt.

Speaker 7 And as they're in the crypt, they notice that

Speaker 7 there's an opening that's been partially blocked off with bricks.

Speaker 7 And Anselm walked up to the opening. And he asked the priest, what's this? And the priest said, that's the shinkana.
And Anselm took his flashlight, flashed in there, and he saw the tunnel.

Speaker 7 And he said that the tunnel was lined with the same exquisite masonry as the

Speaker 7 temple above.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 these are trapezoidal, you know, the doors, the Inca doors are trapezoidal, and the tunnel is trapezoidal. It's trapezoidal.

Speaker 7 And it just went on endlessly. There was the shinkana.
So Anselm said, this is great. The legend is true.
I've got my team excavating at Saksai Waman.

Speaker 7 Let me go get them and bring them here and we'll take these bricks down and we'll go in and

Speaker 7 we'll make this discovery

Speaker 7 and film it and everything. And suddenly the priest's, his disposition changes on a dime.

Speaker 7 And he says, no, no, no, no, no. I should have never brought you here.
You're not supposed to be here. You're not supposed to see this.
Get out.

Speaker 7 And he kicks them out of the church, out of the crypt and out of the cathedral.

Speaker 7 He just flips on a dime.

Speaker 7 Okay, so now Anselm knows that the legend is true. He's seen the tunnel with his own eyes.

Speaker 7 He knows that the most important artifacts of the Inca Empire, and who knows what else, is hidden under that, in the galleries beneath that megalithic, that ancient megalithic edifice.

Speaker 7 So ultimately, he gets permission, and I'm not going to go through how, but miraculously gets permission to excavate at the Coricancha. What's his objective?

Speaker 7 Well, he's got a public objective, which is whatever, but privately his objective is to get into the Shinkana, right? Brings his team, this is years later, like I believe the early 2000s.

Speaker 7 I'm probably wrong on the dates. He brings his team to Peru, and he's got an international team, got GPR, he's got all kinds of equipment.

Speaker 7 They're ready to make this discovery because he knows it's there, he's seen it.

Speaker 7 They arrive on the scene after miraculously getting permission to excavate.

Speaker 7 He goes into the cathedral. Somebody changed the floor.
The tiles, the floor has been retiled. Okay? He takes his GPR unit, goes to where he knows the crypt is, can't find the crypt.

Speaker 7 Long story short, it appears that somebody filled it in with debris, or that it naturally, maybe an earthquake and whatever, but the crypt is now inaccessible.

Speaker 7 So now he's got to try to find a different way in, right? Because the crypt is closed. So he spends, I forget how many months on this excavation.

Speaker 7 They actually discover the foundations of the temple. That's how I know that the foundations of the temple are megalithic green diorite, as are the megalithic foundations of Cusco in general.

Speaker 7 Definitely predates the Inca.

Speaker 7 The foundations, megalithic green diorite.

Speaker 7 And long story short, he gets kicked out of the church.

Speaker 7 They have to... And this was, you know, the president of Peru visited him when he was doing this.
The queen of Spain came and visited the excavation. This was a big deal in Peru.

Speaker 7 And ultimately, Anselm got kicked out.

Speaker 7 Could not get into the Shinkana. Very frustrated, right? That was the goal.
Well, fast forward now, years later, I'm with Anselm in Cusco.

Speaker 7 We have our GPR unit. Well, Anselm knows where the tunnel is.
He knows, he saw it, right? He knows where it goes.

Speaker 7 So we surreptitiously, we took our unit, put it in a duffel bag, and we walked the perimeter of the church.

Speaker 7 And we then took the data, put it into the computer, and guess what showed up?

Speaker 8 No way.

Speaker 7 The shinkana. And you can see the trapezoidal form of it, the shinkana, right where Anselm said it was.
The tunnels there.

Speaker 7 Then Anselm, later on, he acquired another unit, an additional unit to the one that we had, and he went back with his team. And he did the same thing.

Speaker 7 He walked to perimeter and verified the original discovery discovery of the GPR data. And he even got a clearer

Speaker 7 scan because he took more time. And he got a really good 3D image of the Shinkana.
It's there. And then he did a press conference last year in Barcelona where he revealed the data, right?

Speaker 7 Then, I don't know if you saw this, but

Speaker 7 Last year, this was international news. It was announced after Anselm did his conference in Barcelona.
It was announced that archaeologists in Cusco have discovered tunnels beneath the city.

Speaker 7 Legendary tunnels beneath the city.

Speaker 7 They stole his data.

Speaker 7 We know for sure they did. They stole the GPR data.

Speaker 7 They

Speaker 7 basically claimed to be the discoverers when it was really Anselm.

Speaker 7 and they were trying to get a project to excavate.

Speaker 7 But long story short, I'm not sure how much of this I'm allowed to say, but let's just say that there's a really good chance Anselm P. Ramla will be breaking into the Shinkana soon.

Speaker 8 Oh, man, that's awesome. So...
Are you going to be there for that?

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 8 Awesome.

Speaker 7 So... Can I come?

Speaker 7 Very possibly, yes. So this could be one of the biggest discoveries

Speaker 7 in Peru since Machu Picchu.

Speaker 8 When is this happening? Do you know?

Speaker 7 He's He's working on the permitting. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to share, but let's just say that Anselm

Speaker 7 has everything in the works behind the scenes. I didn't even know this.
I met with his son

Speaker 7 in Lima. He has no idea that I'm sharing this.

Speaker 7 But

Speaker 7 the Shinkana is real. So the question is:

Speaker 7 What's down there? What artifacts are sequestered away beneath the walls of Sayuaman? Well, I think maybe a clue

Speaker 7 regarding

Speaker 7 the identity of the builders of the megaliths in Peru, that may be one thing that's down there. Who knows? I mean, all of the most important artifacts of the Inca are there,

Speaker 7 and it's real. It's not a legend.
This story is true. And I'll give you one more detail.

Speaker 7 Anselm, while he was excavating in the church, he was working

Speaker 7 with a prior, a Dominican named Father Gamara, who I met later on with Anselm. Father Gamara was very friendly to Anselm and his team.

Speaker 7 Gamara told Anselm that the existence of the shinkana has been known to the Dominican order and has been a secret kept by the priors of the church. I don't know if that's why we say it in Spanish.

Speaker 7 I don't really know how to say it in English. I hope I'm using the right terminology.
By the head, a clergyman

Speaker 7 at the Cathedral of Santo Domingo in Cusco. That secret has been kept and handed down

Speaker 7 from prior to prior. Okay?

Speaker 7 And so he affirmed to Anselm that the legend is true. In fact, furthermore, he said, I want to show you something.
He took Anselm into a back room

Speaker 7 and he showed him an artifact. It was a crown that was cast in pure gold.
And it was sitting on a statue of Mary.

Speaker 7 And they called it

Speaker 7 the crown of the mother, of the virgin and the child. That's what they named this relic the crown of the virgin and the child.
But then he told

Speaker 7 Anselm the story of where the gold came from. And the story goes something like this.

Speaker 7 Years ago, I believe it was back in the early 20th century, there were a couple of young people who somehow had, they made their way down into the galleries beneath Saksaiwaman because there are other entrances besides the Shinkana Grande.

Speaker 7 because some of these caverns are natural, right? So you can,

Speaker 7 there's other ways to get down in there if you can find, if you can find them. And these two

Speaker 7 young people, these two, I think they were teenagers or young men, they made their way down into the galleries beneath Saksaiwaman. And ultimately, they got lost down there.

Speaker 7 By the way, the word shinkana means labyrinth, but it also means the place where one gets lost. So

Speaker 7 we call it labyrinth because that's sort of what it defines. But in Quechua, it also means the place where one gets lost.
And the legend, the Quechua believe

Speaker 7 that it's cursed, that you go down there, you're going to go crazy or you're going to die. And in fact, of these two young guys that went down there, one of them perished in the labyrinth.

Speaker 7 The other one made it out.

Speaker 7 And this is what Gamara told Anselm.

Speaker 7 The other one made it out because one day, back in that era, probably, I don't know, back in the, as I said, early 20th century,

Speaker 7 one night the priests heard somebody knocking. It was a knocking coming coming from somewhere in the cathedral, and they didn't know where it was, and so they were looking around.

Speaker 7 What's this knocking? Ultimately, they realized that the knocking was coming from the floor of the cathedral, from the trapdoor. So they open up the trapdoor, and here's this young man.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 he's starving, he's dehydrated,

Speaker 7 and he's in a state of disorientation. They pull him out.
So he came up through the crypt. Obviously, he made his way into the Shincana Grande,

Speaker 7 walked the mile through the tunnel, and is popping up through the crypt. They pull him out

Speaker 7 and they start

Speaker 7 trying to help him recover, giving him water and food. And they're asking him, How did you get down there? And he told them the story.
But he didn't just come out empty-handed.

Speaker 7 He had something in his hand when they pulled him out of the crypt. He had

Speaker 7 a

Speaker 7 He had a, what do you call

Speaker 7 a corn stalk, the top, the

Speaker 7 an air of corn. He had an air of corn in his hand cast in solid gold.

Speaker 8 Wow.

Speaker 7 Wow.

Speaker 7 And he told them that he had,

Speaker 7 that he, that there was a great treasure

Speaker 7 under Saksaiwaman.

Speaker 7 That there was a great treasure hidden under there. And that this was just one piece that he grabbed and held on to.

Speaker 7 as he made his way through the labyrinth. His companion had died in the labyrinth.

Speaker 7 He emerged with

Speaker 7 a golden air of corn from the

Speaker 7 that was once part of that garden that I told you about at the Cordi Concha, that life-size garden with everything was cast in pure gold and silver.

Speaker 7 And he gave the corn to the priests, and then he died.

Speaker 7 He had gone mad. Like he lost his mind down there, and he was probably too dehydrated and starved.
He died.

Speaker 7 They took the corn, they recast it, and made this Catholic relic, the crown of the virgin and the child.

Speaker 7 So

Speaker 7 we know that there's artifacts, or at least were artifacts under the megalithic wall of Saccewamon. Wow.
So we, we, you know, that was a long story, but I think it's pretty entertaining. It's, it's,

Speaker 7 because this, this is part of the history of Peru, right?

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 and

Speaker 7 We detected the tunnel. Anselm detected the tunnel.
It's there. He saw it with his own eyes.
We confirm that that tunnel exists.

Speaker 7 And I believe that Anselm Pirambla is destined to open that thing up. You get down in there.

Speaker 8 Man, I can't wait to hear about this.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and it's going to be one of the most remarkable archaeological discoveries in the history of Peru. Wow.

Speaker 7 And again, I want to reiterate, I believe that the identity of the megalith builders, that there are clues, indications of who they were in the galleries beneath Saxaiwaman, because Saksaiwaman was strategically placed where it is because there's a complex beneath it.

Speaker 7 And this is often the case with megaliths. This is often the case.

Speaker 7 There's something below. It's not just what you see on the surface.
There's something below.

Speaker 7 And oftentimes, I think that's where

Speaker 7 the real interesting and important artifacts reside beneath these edifices.

Speaker 8 That is fascinating. And congratulations on being a part of that.

Speaker 7 That's great. I'm just going along for the ride.

Speaker 8 That's going to be awesome.

Speaker 7 Yeah, and and we filmed a lot of that.

Speaker 7 Obviously, we didn't

Speaker 7 get into the tunnel, but it's there. But you will.
It's there. And you know what I just told you? Nobody knows.
Nobody knows that.

Speaker 8 Wow.

Speaker 7 That is

Speaker 7 something that

Speaker 7 most people are going to learn for the first time here on your show because nobody knows. I mean, I've...
you know, I have my members' community and stuff where I talk about this stuff,

Speaker 7 but it's never gotten this kind of exposure.

Speaker 8 Man.

Speaker 7 And I think it will be, you know, as I keep saying, the greatest discovery in Peru since Machu Picchu.

Speaker 8 That's incredible. I can't wait to hear about that.

Speaker 8 Is that going to happen soon, do you think?

Speaker 7 It should, yeah.

Speaker 7 I don't want to get into all the details because Anselm never really gave me permission

Speaker 7 to disclose the fact that

Speaker 7 he's elaborating this project right now. But yes,

Speaker 7 the project is officially, the preliminary stages of that project are officially underway.

Speaker 7 And this is Anselm's

Speaker 7 life's work.

Speaker 7 This is his,

Speaker 7 the greatest objective of his life is to get into that tunnel. Wow.
And he wants to bring me with him. So, and you know, he and I have done a lot together, and it would be an honor to be part of that.

Speaker 8 Well, I can't wait to hear about it.

Speaker 7 Yeah, I can only imagine what's under there. Me too.
So, to reiterate, no, that's exciting. The Inca did not build the walls of Saksaywaman.

Speaker 7 Anselm Pirambla has proof that they did not build the walls of Sacsaywaman.

Speaker 7 Those walls were there. The Inca discovered them.

Speaker 7 And I believe the same can be said of Machu Picchu.

Speaker 7 Machu Picchu, I've been there like five times. Machu Picchu is magnificent.

Speaker 7 You know, when I lived in Peru, I never wanted to go because I don't like touristy areas.

Speaker 7 I stay away from those. My God, Machu Picchu is breathtaking.
It's definitely worth it.

Speaker 7 Have you been there? No, I haven't. It is absolutely

Speaker 7 breathtaking. And the foundations of Machu Picchu are megalithic, built in the Cyclopean style.
And I believe that the Inca,

Speaker 7 you know, the Inca styled themselves as the sons and daughters of the sun.

Speaker 7 They were the inheritors of the gods. They were the progeny of the gods.
And what belonged to the gods belonged to them.

Speaker 7 And so I believe that when the Inca came to Cusco and they saw the remnants, these megalithic remnants of this once mighty civilization that I think was pre-flood and was destroyed in the cataclysm.

Speaker 7 They said the gods lived here. So this is our heritage.
We're going to rebuild. We're going to rebuild on the

Speaker 7 foundations of the habitation of the gods. In fact,

Speaker 7 Machu Picchu, the Quechua name for Machu Picchu, it's not Machu Picchu, it's Ijampu. What does Ijampu mean? The abode.
of the gods. Interesting.
The habitation of the gods. So

Speaker 7 I think that that name conveys exactly what the Inca thought when they arrived. Look at these magnificent megalithic constructions,

Speaker 7 because in Machu Picchu, there's some really amazing megaliths. And they thought, surely the gods lived here, right? Wait a minute.
We are the progeny of the gods. This is our heritage.

Speaker 7 And then they rebuilt. Wow.

Speaker 7 And I think that's...

Speaker 7 That's the way it is in a lot of places around the earth. We always rebuild on the foundations of our antescendants.

Speaker 7 You know, this takes us all the way back to the beginning of our conversation about the antediluvian world and the cataclysm and all of that. But

Speaker 7 so we completed the circle.

Speaker 8 Perfect. Well, Tim,

Speaker 8 I can't wait to hear about this. So let's keep in touch.

Speaker 8 And I just want to thank you for a fascinating conversation on all the different topics and rabbit holes we went down. And I hope to see you you back here.

Speaker 7 Well, thank you so much for having me. Anytime.

Speaker 8 Congratulations on everything. Thank you.
Thank you.