Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: How Vaccines Got Politicized and the Medical Industry Lost All Credibility

Speaker 1 So, thank you for coming. So, I want to.
Okay, here's my question to you.

Speaker 1 You were one of the people who was right about COVID, and

Speaker 1 certainly more right than the U.S. public health authorities and the global public health authorities.
And I'm just going to summarize in two sentences what I think your position was.

Speaker 1 So, you're a physician in private practice in Texas,

Speaker 1 and you're vaccinated, by the way. No, you were not, oh, you're not vaccinated.

Speaker 2 I almost did.

Speaker 1 God bless you.

Speaker 1 But at first, you have no real reason to think that this is all completely backward. But then you treat COVID patients, thousands, I think,

Speaker 1 and you start to realize that the therapies that the U.S. government is recommending are not working, that the vaccines are not working as advertised at all.

Speaker 1 And you start saying something about it and offering alternatives to it, which are badly needed in the middle of this moment. And you're attacked,

Speaker 1 really attacked. Your livelihood, your professional credentials are attacked.
And then time passes, now four years, and it becomes really clear that once again, you were more right than the U.S.

Speaker 1 public health authorities. I think that's just demonstrable.
I think the science proves that. So here's my question after a long preamble.
Have you been rewarded for it?

Speaker 1 Has the AMA given you the Physician of the Year award? No, I'm serious. Has anybody said,

Speaker 1 we were wrong in attacking you and you deserve credit for your foresight and bravery?

Speaker 2 No, and I mean, I'm still fighting to keep my license. I mean, I still have the Texas Medical Board coming after me for

Speaker 2 something that happened.

Speaker 1 Right now, you're fighting? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I have a hearing coming up at the end of April. And I was trying to save somebody's life.
It was a sheriff's deputy.

Speaker 2 This is a man that has served for 29 years trying to protect and save the public, father of six. And he contracted COVID.
And this was in the fall of 2021.

Speaker 2 And that was the third and the largest surge of the pandemic. That's when, you know, this was following the rollout of the COVID shots.

Speaker 2 So this was eight months following the rollout of the COVID shots, and they clearly weren't working. And this man, he got sick.
He tried to get ivermectin.

Speaker 2 He couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it. He ended up in the hospital and he was, you know, went downhill like so many people did.

Speaker 2 And his wife,

Speaker 2 the hospital was talking hospice. They were giving up.
They said we tried everything. Come on.

Speaker 1 How old was this this man?

Speaker 2 He was late 50s, early 60s.

Speaker 1 Not elderly. No.

Speaker 2 And he was a big guy, but he had no comorbidities. He had no other medical problems.
And

Speaker 2 so, you know, this is, we saw this, though, with so many people.

Speaker 2 You know, day, if you didn't get early treatment, the second week of illness, people would start really getting bad.

Speaker 2 This massive inflammatory response would kick in. Yes.
It almost always happened on day eight. It was very weird.
It was very predictable.

Speaker 2 And the primary care doctors

Speaker 2 just shut their doors to these people. They said, oh, this is just a virus.
We'll let it run its course and then go to the emergency room if you can't breathe. So that happened to just.

Speaker 2 Can I ask you a pause?

Speaker 1 Why would primary care physicians, whose duty it is to treat patients, and they must have known by this point that day eight is the critical day, why would they not treat these people?

Speaker 2 Because there's a dogma that we are taught in medical school and in our training that you don't treat a virus, that you let a virus run its course, because there's this big fear about antibiotic resistance.

Speaker 2 So they don't want people over-prescribing antibiotics.

Speaker 2 And so the assumption, if somebody comes to you with an upper respiratory tract infection in the first three, four days, five days, and they don't test positive or strep, you basically say, oh, you've got a virus and we'll just wait and see what happens.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, that was just catastrophic. I mean, that was really, and I learned so much.

Speaker 2 I mean, I had that mindset prior to the pandemic, but I just, it just didn't sit well with me when people were coming in and, you know, really struggling to just do nothing.

Speaker 2 And so initially I tried hydroxychloroquine. But as soon as President Trump came out and said how great it was, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy, they literally shut it down.

Speaker 2 Like they prohibited doctors from prescribing hydroxychloroquine. So I put it on the back burner and I just did my best.

Speaker 2 I I did breathing treatments, steroids, I did antibiotics for secondary infection. But initially I didn't really have a lot of demand for people coming in needing treatment.

Speaker 2 I was doing a lot of testing and that sort of got me recognized in town because I had a saliva test that didn't require a swab up the nose and I was able to get the results back very quickly.

Speaker 2 You might remember initially LabCorp was the only lab in the country that had the test and they they became inundated and it was taking two weeks to get the test results back.

Speaker 2 So we had a saliva test and people could just, we could just give a cup and they could sit in their car and spit in it.

Speaker 2 And then we'd have the results back the next day. So that sort of, that's where it all started.

Speaker 2 And then monoclonal antibodies came about and those worked great. I mean, I could get as many doses as I wanted.
I'd get them the next day. I'd just contact the manufacturer, say, I I need 200 doses.

Speaker 2 They'd be at my bed doorstep. Great.
They worked wonderfully. People turned around very quickly.

Speaker 2 And, but what happened is, and this is during that big surge when Jason Jones, the sheriff's deputy, got sick, couldn't get monoclonal antibodies, couldn't get ivermectin.

Speaker 1 When in 2001 was that? Do you remember?

Speaker 2 So the summer of 2021. Well, so let's start in the spring of 2021.
So this is following the rollout of the COVID shots. The government is upset because people are not buying it.

Speaker 2 People are not getting, there's very low uptake and very low interest. There's suspicion of these shots.
So, in March, they started their PR campaign, the government. They went after ivermectin.

Speaker 2 The FDA put something on their website about

Speaker 2 you can't use ivermectin for COVID

Speaker 2 that Biden

Speaker 2 doled out $11.5 billion

Speaker 2 to groups around the country. Initially, it started with 275, it went up to 17,000.
Influencers, church groups, sports leagues, all sorts of people,

Speaker 2 just funneling out taxpayer money to go after doctors like myself that were spreading misinformation and to, you know, this is, you know push people to get these COVID shots.

Speaker 2 So that happened in the spring. And

Speaker 2 that's how, so Houston Methodist Hospital, and that's where I had privileges. They were the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots.
And this was April 1st, 2021.

Speaker 2 And this was the exact day that Biden announced COVID-19 Community Corps, that billion, multi-billion dollar propaganda effort. I think it was very purposeful.

Speaker 2 I think the mandate started in Houston for a reason.

Speaker 2 I think that they knew if they could get away with the mandates in Texas, they could get away with them anywhere.

Speaker 1 Where was your governor in this?

Speaker 2 He was, you know, he

Speaker 1 had a Republican, a Republican governor.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he was, he was a little slow to act. I mean, he, uh, he was on board with Methodists.
In fact, I have the CEO of Methodist, Dr.

Speaker 2 Mark Boom, on camera saying that Governor Abbott wanted them to get a shot in every arm. That's, that's according to the CEO of Methodist.

Speaker 2 But, you know, he did, he did come through eventually. But

Speaker 2 this is early on. So then that summer started having all these breakthrough cases.
And I was seeing it because I was testing people. So I started to track people by their vaccination status.

Speaker 2 And I saw that the vaccinated outnumbered the unvaccinated and they were just as sick, if not sicker. So I brought this to the attention of Houston Methodists.

Speaker 1 Were these your patients you're talking about?

Speaker 2 People that were coming to my office to get tested.

Speaker 1 Why wasn't every doctor doing this?

Speaker 2 Well, we can get to that because, I mean, I'm independent. So it allowed me to do things that other doctors can't do.
But I was actually collaborating with Methodists.

Speaker 2 I was sharing my data with them because I had so many. I mean, basically, I was just, all I saw was COVID for a few years.

Speaker 2 And we were trying to get the data published. So we had a good relationship.
So I reached out. I said, hey, are you seeing what I'm seeing? Like these, all these breakthrough cases.

Speaker 2 At the same time, I had all these people coming to me very distraught about the mandates. And, you know, because we were ahead of the time, right?

Speaker 2 This was before the rest of the country was mandating the shots. But in Houston, if you were a lot of people at Houston Methodists, they employ about 30,000 people.

Speaker 2 Very distraught over these mandates.

Speaker 2 And then I see that they're not working. At that time, I wasn't seeing the injuries.
And at that time, I was just very vocal against the mandates.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I,

Speaker 2 you know, then we'll, in August, late August of 2021, FDA put out the infamous horse tweet.

Speaker 2 And that's the attractive healthcare worker nuzzling the horse and says, seriously, y'all, you're not a horse, you're not a cow. Stop it.
Tweet went viral. That's right.

Speaker 2 That's when Joe Rogan got smeared for taking ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And then right after that, Biden mandated the shots and they took away monoclonal antibodies. So it was all very orchestrated.

Speaker 1 But monoclonal antibodies, I've never heard anybody say that they weren't helpful.

Speaker 2 Right. But if you have monoclonal antibodies available as an option, people are going to do that rather than get the shot.

Speaker 2 So that's why, in my opinion, that's why they took away the monoclonal antibodies.

Speaker 2 They worked great. I mean, it was.

Speaker 1 So this is like the most evil thing that's ever happened in the United States.

Speaker 2 Yeah, in my opinion, definitely.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry to keep interjecting. It's just, even though I live this, it's just so stunning to hear it recounted as crisply as you are recounting it.

Speaker 1 So, okay, so they take away monoclonal antibodies. They mandate the shot.

Speaker 1 You're sharing your data with the hospital at which you have privileges. What are they saying?

Speaker 2 So their response was one sentence,

Speaker 2 and it said, well, we think the shots are there to lessen the severity. Well, interestingly enough, they've never shared their data, their hospital data.

Speaker 2 And being the first in the country to mandate the shots, you know, they're sitting on an enormous amount of data.

Speaker 2 And if the shots had been effective in preventing transmission or lowering the severity, then they should have shared that. They would have shared that.

Speaker 2 They would have been screaming that from the rooftops if it fits their agenda, but they've been very quiet about that.

Speaker 2 So I had...

Speaker 2 you know, all these things, all these patients coming to me very distraught.

Speaker 2 I had one patient come to me and tell me that her urologist at Houston Methodist called her and said, you're going to need to find a new urologist if you don't get the COVID shots.

Speaker 2 And she had a history of bladder cancer. So she was very upset and she was calling me to try to find a new urologist.

Speaker 1 The urologist said I won't treat you.

Speaker 2 Well, he said that the department was talking,

Speaker 2 having discussions about not treating patients that were unvaccinated.

Speaker 2 He didn't say.

Speaker 1 The Texas Health Department?

Speaker 2 No, this is at Houston Methodist Health.

Speaker 1 Oh, the Department of Urology. Yes.

Speaker 2 That's what he told this patient.

Speaker 2 Then.

Speaker 1 Doesn't he have a moral obligation to treat his patients?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, we saw all sorts of moral issues during the pandemic.
I mean, yeah, crimes.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, that happened. And then on the exact same day, I got a notice from a surgery center where I operate that I'd have to get the COVID shot to continue operating.

Speaker 2 And then on the same day, I got a notice from this hospital where I was trying to help the sheriff's deputy.

Speaker 2 They had a court order to give me emergency temporary privileges so that I could give them ivermectin. The wife sued,

Speaker 2 and she was, you know, last-ditch effort, let a dying man try ivermectin.

Speaker 1 Sheriff's deputy, father of six. Yes.

Speaker 2 I testified. She asked me to testify.
I testified. Senator Bob Hall testified.
We won. And the court was ordered to give me emergency temporary privileges.
And then I was to

Speaker 2 either myself personally give the ivermectin to him or have a nurse do it because they thought it was too dangerous for one of their own members to do it.

Speaker 2 To treat a patient with ivermectin, which is insane.

Speaker 2 Anyway, I got a notice that they were going to deny my privileges, even though, I mean, I've never been sued for malpractice. Spotless record.

Speaker 2 They made me get letters of recommendation. They made me submit my surgical case logs.

Speaker 2 They just fought tooth and nail to make the whole process as difficult as they could.

Speaker 2 And the lawyers ended up having to go back to the judge and

Speaker 2 fight with them over just giving me privileges. Whereas at that time, there was a shortage.
They needed doctors to work in the hospitals.

Speaker 2 And if I, under other circumstances, if I had just shown up and said, hey, I want to help out in the ICU, they would have granted me privileges the same day.

Speaker 2 There wouldn't have been any kind of letters or recommendation or surgery anyway.

Speaker 1 Can I just ask, were you pretty confident this man was going to die without treatment?

Speaker 2 No. So this is interesting.
So the lawyers that were doing this case, Ralph Lorigo and Beth Parlato, they did 189 cases around the country. Similar situation.

Speaker 2 The spouse is suing the hospital to try to get their loved one ivermectin in this last-ditch effort to save their lives. Half of those people, they won the case.

Speaker 2 And in the cases where they won, all but three patients died. In the cases where they lost, all the patients died.
I mean, it's really amazing.

Speaker 2 And apparently, the judges, their political party, matched the outcome of the trial. So the Republican judges were the ones that ruled in favor of the plaintiff.

Speaker 2 And then the Democrat judges were the ones that ruled against the plaintiff.

Speaker 1 You're making my heart beat beat fast hearing this.

Speaker 1 So what happened in this specific case?

Speaker 2 So, you know, there was a lot of back and forth. It was very confusing.
It was very, happening very quickly. And, you know, his life is on the line.
And

Speaker 2 they

Speaker 2 basically, the lawyers told me, you have the green light. We're going to go ahead.
We can go. It's all good.
Everything's cleared. So I send the nurse to the hospital.

Speaker 2 And she's greeted by the police and the hospital administrator and turned away.

Speaker 2 And he never is allowed to get the ivermectin. They appealed and were managed to get a stay on the order.
And then on appeal,

Speaker 2 they lost. So the wife,

Speaker 2 luckily, she was able to go into the hospital every day, which was unusual. Most

Speaker 2 spouses didn't get to do that, but that was one good thing. And this was at Texas Hugali Hospital in Fort Worth.

Speaker 2 So she applied Ivermection to him topically every day without the hospital knowing. The hospital tied up his feeding tube because they didn't want her sneaking anything in.

Speaker 2 They put towels and rubber bands around it so that nothing could be snuck in.

Speaker 1 These people are evil. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I mean, they fought tooth and nail to keep him from just trying a very safe medication, which I believe should be over the counter.

Speaker 2 And then they turned me into the medical board over it. And I'm still fighting those charges.
The patient, he did survive,

Speaker 2 but he spent six months in the hospital. He lost half of his body weight.
He never was able to make a full recovery. And then unfortunately, he did pass away.

Speaker 1 That's like, that's a,

Speaker 1 that's very upsetting to hear that. That's very upsetting.
And so the charges against you, boy, I thought I was done being upset by COVID.

Speaker 1 You just brought me back.

Speaker 1 It's such a stain on this country.

Speaker 2 It's a stain on the medical profession.

Speaker 1 And just that people didn't storm the hospitals.

Speaker 1 Your father, your husband, your children dying alone. Yeah.
You should have shown up with guns and said, get out of my way. It's my loved one, and I'm going to be with him when he dies.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 And so I, you know, people should have done that. And I hope they will next time.

Speaker 1 Excuse me. So

Speaker 1 your crime is recommending a therapy for COVID. That's your crime? Or is there, I mean, missing?

Speaker 2 Well, the technicality is that I didn't have hospital privileges when I sent the nurse to the hospital. But because this was a legal decision.
But she never got in. She never got in.

Speaker 2 And I was following the guidance of the lawyers.

Speaker 1 So your nurse made it to the threshold of a hospital, therefore you should lose your medical license?

Speaker 1 Is that

Speaker 2 well, I don't think they're trying to. I think they just want to fine me and fine you? Yeah, mark my record.

Speaker 2 And um i could have settled a long time ago so you have something called an informal settlement conference it's behind closed doors there's no witnesses or and you you don't really get to interact much um

Speaker 2 and they offered to make it go away if i paid them five thousand dollars and took eight hours of cme and retook the

Speaker 2 uh continuing medical education and then uh

Speaker 2 and then retook the jurisprudence exam. So all doctors in Texas have to take a medical legal exam,

Speaker 2 which I've already taken and passed, but they wanted me to take it again. And I just said, no, I'm not, I'm not caving to this.

Speaker 2 And unfortunately, the latest, so it's been three and a half years. There have been multiple continuances.
They haven't been able to find an expert witness to testify against me.

Speaker 2 The first one got sick with cancer. The second one just.
I think just chickened out. I don't know.

Speaker 2 And then the third one, the third witness, it turns out that the entire time, and he was the former medical director of the Texas Medical Board, the entire time, the last 12 years, he's been working for Planned Parenthood.

Speaker 2 So we found that out.

Speaker 1 Wait, wait, what? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wait,

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. Now I'm tuning in with greater intensity.
What is his job, his day job, when he's not?

Speaker 2 He's a lab director for Planned Parenthood.

Speaker 1 What is a lab director at Planned Parenthood do?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Sell fetal tissue to vaccine companies?

Speaker 2 Probably. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he's on the medical board?

Speaker 2 He was the medical director of the medical board.

Speaker 1 And he works at Planned Parenthood? Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is not Vermont. This is Texas.

Speaker 2 Exactly. No, I mean, Texas is not what people think.

Speaker 1 No, I've figured that out.

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Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 do you think, like, take yourself out of this? This is just like a med school classmate is going through what you're going through. Do you see any

Speaker 1 other side to the argument, any potentially legitimate justification for hounding you for four years?

Speaker 2 You know, the medical board's job is to protect the public from dangerous doctors. I mean,

Speaker 2 it's true, though. I mean,

Speaker 2 you get a monthly bulletin, and there are, you know, sex offenders.

Speaker 1 Like the ones who give your kids amphetamines for ADHD. Well, yeah.
The ones who hook your wife on benzodiazepines because she has panic attacks. Those doctors? Right, right.

Speaker 2 Well, no, I mean.

Speaker 1 No, not those doctors. Oh, different doctors.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 We get a monthly email just blasting all the crimes that doctors have done. And it's pretty bad.
I mean, it's, you know, sex offenders.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm not surprised even a little bit.

Speaker 2 A lot of, you know, so that's their role.

Speaker 2 I don't think I'm dangerous. I was trying to save a life.
I stepped on the toes of a hospital. That's, that was my crime.

Speaker 2 A multi-billion dollar hospital, Advent hospital.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that's what happened with Methodists. I stepped on their toes, and they just weren't going to have that.

Speaker 1 So at any point during this, can you go to the, I mean, these are obviously huge corporations, but they're institutions whose, whose goal is to save lives, improve lives, bring health to the population.

Speaker 1 Could you ever just like call the CEO of the hospital and the medical director of the hospital and say, this is really crazy. Like, I'm not profiting from this.

Speaker 1 Ivermectin, there's no profit margin in it, right? I just think this therapy works. I've seen it, and I'm going to try and help.
And why don't you back off? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Can you do that? I mean, at the time that this was going down, we were, it was a legal battle. I felt like, well, I really can't, I just have to,

Speaker 2 you know, I can't step outside what the lawyers are telling me to do.

Speaker 1 How much money do these hospitals take from the Biden administration? Do you know?

Speaker 2 I don't know for sure. But I know that Houston Methodist Hospital has $13 billion in assets.
That was actually a couple of years ago. It's probably more now.

Speaker 1 In assets?

Speaker 2 In assets. So $13 billion in assets.

Speaker 2 And they have locations all over Houston. They don't pay property taxes.
They're nonprofit.

Speaker 1 They don't pay property taxes?

Speaker 2 They don't pay any property taxes.

Speaker 1 I do think we should get rid of nonprofit status, period. Yes.
I don't understand.

Speaker 1 I've met almost no nonprofit that I think is good. And

Speaker 1 that needs to be reformed.

Speaker 1 We could probably close the deficit despite getting these

Speaker 1 having these people pay the taxes that the rest of us pay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's just so shocking. Was there any hospital in Houston where you live, I think, that was willing to be reasonable or was not taking orders? Yes, there was.

Speaker 2 Good. Yes.
So there was a doctor, Joe Verone,

Speaker 2 who is a pulmonologist, critical care doctor. He's now the head of Independent Medical Alliance.

Speaker 2 He and I, I would have paid, it was crazy. We'd have patients calling us all over the country saying, help.
get me out of this hospital. And he would accept transfers from all over the country.

Speaker 2 So people would be, you know, life-flighted from ICU in Maine and taken down to Houston. And he would care for them.
And this hospital, UMMC, allowed him to use ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And we were, so there was a whole protocol that was, it's called the Math Plus Protocol and started by FLCCC,

Speaker 2 which now is Independent Medical Alliance.

Speaker 2 But it was high-dose steroids. It was high-dose ivermectin.
It was high-dose vitamin C. It was breathing treatments.

Speaker 2 It was all these very basic, you know, not dangerous things that weren't being done.

Speaker 2 He saved a lot of lives. He worked crazy.
I think he worked over two and a half years straight without even a break. But I was fortunate to have him as an ally and somebody that a man.

Speaker 1 Good for him.

Speaker 1 You're clearly a data person. Do we have like the final outcome? Like, how did those patients do versus patients who were like intubated in some Biden-controlled hospital?

Speaker 2 Well, if you look at, there's a great website that compiles all the ivermectin data just by itself.

Speaker 2 And there, we have 105 studies showing the efficacy of ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 it, you know,

Speaker 2 it varied depending on the actual patient as it should.

Speaker 2 And you wouldn't always just use ivermectin. So, you know, in my more severe patients, I would use a combination of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin.

Speaker 2 During that second week, I would do higher-dose steroids if necessary. I would do breathing treatments.
So it's hard to isolate saying, okay, well, it's just ivermectin.

Speaker 2 But when you look on this compilation of studies, I mean, even in the late stages, and you were asked me about this earlier, even in the late stages, they showed that ivermectin could decrease mortality by 40%.

Speaker 2 It's most effective if you actually take it as prevention.

Speaker 2 So people taking it twice a week do the best.

Speaker 2 And then the people that start day one or two or three,

Speaker 2 they're the next best.

Speaker 1 So we, I mean, that's established. We know that.

Speaker 2 Well, it depends on who you ask. But yes, there is plenty of data supporting that.

Speaker 1 So why isn't that like the official CDC protocol for COVID?

Speaker 2 Well, you know, it would help myself and other doctors who, I mean, I'm not the only doctor going through this with the medical board, but if they could make it a countermeasure, then it's protected under the PrEP Act, and then it makes all these issues that we're having with the medical boards essentially go away.

Speaker 1 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Is there anybody who has counter data, numbers showing the opposite, that people taking ivermectin like die more?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't say that. They'd say it doesn't work, or it's not, but the studies that are all establishment, you know, in

Speaker 2 the big journals,

Speaker 2 they're either either they didn't give the ivermectin soon enough or they gave too low of a dose uh or the study was sponsored by somebody that has financial interests and seeing it not work uh so there are studies countering that uh but if you if you look at the there's just an abundance of data showing it works and it's super safe so i i was a little bit nervous before i started using it because of all the you know media you know that's only for horses and that sort of thing so i dug into it and I did what.

Speaker 1 Does it help horses?

Speaker 1 I know we kept hearing it was a horse dewormer. Is it effective?

Speaker 2 Yes, I mean, for their parasite issues.

Speaker 2 But so I looked at the study where Merck submitted to the FDA. It's on their website.
Anybody can find it. And you get toxicity data.

Speaker 2 And there's something called the LD50, which stands for lethal dose 50. It's a benchmark number that is used to gauge how toxic a medication is.
So the higher the number,

Speaker 2 the lower the toxicity.

Speaker 2 And in COVID, we were using higher doses of ivermectin than what you use to treat a parasite. So I wanted to make sure these higher doses were okay.

Speaker 2 Well, if you look at the LD50 of ivermectin, it's anywhere from 11 to 82 times

Speaker 2 what we're giving for COVID. So we are far under that threshold.
And then I did a literature search and I tried to find accidental, intentional overdoses from ivermectin and I couldn't find anything.

Speaker 2 And I checked recently and there was one study showing some issues and it was a little bit muddy. Like, was this really ivermectin?

Speaker 2 But if you look at Tylenol, I mean, there's thousands of papers showing toxicity from Tylenol. So it is.

Speaker 1 I know someone who has, you know, advanced liver disease from it. Really? Wow.
Yeah. Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 No, it is. Thousands of people die every year.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So propofol used every day in hospitals. I mean, you screw that up by a tiny bit, you're dead.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Correct? Right.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah. Yeah.
I haven't seen it, but sure.

Speaker 1 Killed Michael Jackson.

Speaker 2 Yep. Well, that was.
Right, but I'm just saying, like,

Speaker 1 hospitals work with incredibly dangerous drugs every day. Right.
Right. I'm sure you do.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What are the side effects of it?

Speaker 2 It's, I tell people I have a harder time with antibiotics in terms of side effects. Like, if I'm going to get a call back

Speaker 2 in my office, it's usually about an antibiotic problem, not ivermectin, but you can get some GI issues, diarrhea, and then you can get blurry vision, but the blurry vision goes away when you stop taking it.

Speaker 2 And it's not like, oh, I I can't read. It's more like, oh, something's a little off.
Not, you know.

Speaker 1 That's it.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 1 So I guess what you're saying without saying it is that there's really no compelling medical reason to call the cops if your nurse shows up with ivermectin.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 So that's like purely political. Right.
How did your business get your profession get so politicized?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's awful.

Speaker 1 Did you know that before all of this?

Speaker 2 No. And I remember, you know, Methodists came after me very vocally.

Speaker 2 And I had a press conference outside my office as a, you know, I'm not, I'm not standing, I'm not putting up with this. And I said, you know, politics has no business in healthcare.

Speaker 2 And at the time, I really believed it.

Speaker 1 I was not political at all prior to this.

Speaker 2 I shied away from pilot. I really didn't like it.
And I thought it was too divisive. And

Speaker 2 here, and here I am.

Speaker 1 No, I think that's such a wonderful and very American

Speaker 1 you have children. Yeah.
And that's like a sweet kind of,

Speaker 1 that's how you should feel. Yeah.
That's how you should feel. I'm married to someone who feels that way.

Speaker 1 I don't like people arguing. Like, that's great.
You know, we have important things to do. Like, yeah, no, I'm not making fun of you at all.
I love that.

Speaker 2 But now I feel like there's no other choice, right? You just have to. You have to get involved.
So.

Speaker 1 So you were not politically aware at all before this started. And were you aware that your business, that medicine was so politicized? Had you noticed it at all?

Speaker 2 No, it's interesting that I went and looked at the data for Texas because Texas has been infiltrated by people from all over the country.

Speaker 1 I'm aware.

Speaker 2 33% population.

Speaker 1 That's California. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you look at healthcare professionals, what they donated to political parties.

Speaker 2 And 10 years ago, they primarily donated to Republicans. And now they primarily donate to Democrats.
The whole profession has changed.

Speaker 1 I have a theory for why, but you're the doctor, so you tell me what you think the cause of that is.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 I think medicine in general, I mean, the corporate practice, it's become the corporate practice in medicine. It's become centralized.
It's, you know, only 1% of doctors are not employed.

Speaker 2 I'm one of those.

Speaker 1 Not employed.

Speaker 2 Like, so

Speaker 2 77% of doctors are employed by a hospital, 20% are employed by private equity or an insurance company, and 2% are employed by the government. And

Speaker 2 only 1% are like myself.

Speaker 1 So your choices,

Speaker 1 like your corporate douche overlords,

Speaker 1 private equity or insurance companies, if it's like hilarious, it's like a joke, or the government. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 And you're in the 1% that has your own business.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 1 Maybe that's the answer right there.

Speaker 2 Well, I think it is. I mean, we have to, doctors need to regain their power.
They've lost all their power.

Speaker 1 They have no power. They have no power.
They're just like little worker bees getting ordered around.

Speaker 2 I design, so

Speaker 2 when I got out of residency, I worked in a traditional practice.

Speaker 1 And I started.

Speaker 1 Can you tell us doing what?

Speaker 2 Just ear, nose, and throat and sleep medicine. And it was small, but it was easy.

Speaker 2 But I was always bothered by the stranglehold that the insurance companies had over my ability to treat my patients.

Speaker 2 So like one easy example is your nose and throat doctor, we do an endoscopic exam of the nose. It takes about extra 10 minutes.
Not really a big deal.

Speaker 1 Doesn't sound that fun, though, for the patient.

Speaker 2 It's really not bad. You numb it up first with spray.
There's no shots.

Speaker 2 But if I did that and I marked the code on the sheet, on the receipt, the patient might get some gigantic bill, like $400 for doing this little simple procedure, which as an ENT, it's pretty essential.

Speaker 2 It's part of our, you know,

Speaker 2 makes us different from the primary care doctor. We're able to look in there.

Speaker 2 So it would always stress me out in the back of my mind, like, I'm going to do this. And is the patient going to get some big bill, right? I hated it.

Speaker 2 So when I, you know, I took time off because I had four boys in five years. And I.

Speaker 1 Four boys?

Speaker 2 Yes. And

Speaker 1 yes. What's that like?

Speaker 2 It was, it was chaotic, yes. And I wasn't sure I was going to go back.

Speaker 2 I started off, I'm just going to take a year off. And that led to seven years off.
I wasn't sure I was even going to go back to medicine. But as I got older, it just kept nagging at me.

Speaker 2 So I decided to go back. But I decided I was going to do it on my own terms.
So I call myself third-party free. I don't contract with insurance companies.
I don't contract with hospitals.

Speaker 2 And I don't contract with the government. And the only people I work for are my patients.
And it was.

Speaker 1 So they just like give you a credit card when they come in.

Speaker 2 That's it. Yes.
And they can file a receipt. They can file a claim to their insurance company.
And

Speaker 2 it's very transparent. Everybody knows how much everything costs.
And it's actually,

Speaker 2 you know, there's so many people that have very high deductible insurance now that they're basically cash patients unless something catastrophic happens.

Speaker 2 And if you go to a traditional doctor's practice, half the time they don't even know what to charge you for a cash patient because they're just so entrenched with the insurance industry.

Speaker 2 But there is a growing movement of doctors like myself. And I'm a specialist.
So it's a little unusual, but there's something called direct primary care.

Speaker 2 And direct primary care is like affordable concierge care. So you're paying cash, but it's the cost is typical, like a gym membership.
So it's not super high. You get a lot more access to your doctor.

Speaker 2 You got a lot more time,

Speaker 2 probably more quality. They're not always

Speaker 2 like-minded in terms of COVID. And to me, that's a litmus test for your doctor.

Speaker 2 But it's a better way of doing it. You get much more access, higher quality care, more time.

Speaker 2 And save your insurance for the catastrophic care.

Speaker 2 That's what we do for our cars.

Speaker 2 And use your

Speaker 2 HSA, so health savings account, if you can get one of those, and the government could expand those and make those more available for people because right now it's sort of limited based on your employer.

Speaker 2 But if you can pay out of pocket for your basics, then you are likely to have a better experience.

Speaker 1 I think it's, but it also frees the doctor to think independently. Right.
And to think on behalf of patients.

Speaker 1 Why didn't you get the COVID shot?

Speaker 2 I almost got it.

Speaker 2 In my mind, I thought,

Speaker 2 okay, this thing, I don't think it was going to work, but I didn't think it was going to hurt people. I just thought, I just don't think it's going to work.

Speaker 1 Why? Why did you think that?

Speaker 2 Because I trusted, I trusted,

Speaker 2 yeah, I really had never given the FDA, CDC, HHS a thought. I really hadn't, they weren't on my radar.
I just sort of assumed that everything was fine.

Speaker 1 Well, but because you assumed that, it's interesting that you didn't think the shot would work.

Speaker 2 Right. Well, it's just because of the speed.
I thought, well, how are they going to get this together so quickly that it's going to work?

Speaker 2 I also, I looked at the study and I looked at how they conducted the study and I didn't like how they did that. So

Speaker 2 the people,

Speaker 2 the test subjects were not routinely tested. They were just tested if the doctor felt like they needed to be tested, which seemed a little too muddy to me.

Speaker 2 So, that I had a hesitation on that regard, too.

Speaker 2 And then I showed up, but you know, I had this looming deadline because I had privileges at Houston Methodist, and you had to sign an attestation.

Speaker 2 And the attestation said that you either got the shot or you intended to get the shot.

Speaker 2 So, I just woke up on a Saturday morning. I'm like,

Speaker 2 I'll just do it. Let's just get it over with.
I went to a grocery store and I stood in line.

Speaker 2 Where everybody should get their medical care, right?

Speaker 1 Go to the grocery store. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 Stood in line and the line was long and I got impatient. And I was like, I'm going to leave.
I'll come back another time.

Speaker 1 And I never came back. Thank God.
Why?

Speaker 2 Why didn't I go back?

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, that's just, it's a big deal.
You've got privileges at this hospital.

Speaker 1 You know, you treat patients, but this is part of your business. You're getting paid.
And you're a doctor. So you kind of have to get the shot.
Like we're all on board. Everyone's doing this.

Speaker 1 And they really were mad at doctors who didn't take it because that's, and nurses, because that's such a statement.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, here's how I justified it in my mind. I never stepped foot in that hospital.
I had privileges there just as an emergency situation.

Speaker 2 So it wasn't like, okay, let's say I got COVID because I didn't get the shot. And then I'm going around the hospital infecting everybody.
I wasn't in the hospital.

Speaker 2 I also knew that early treatment worked. So I knew that, you know, this shot was not necessary because I was seeing it.

Speaker 1 I know, but there's so much pressure on everybody, particularly on physicians at that point to do it. If you don't do it, it's a big hassle.
You knew that. It was going to be a hassle.

Speaker 1 And so just like, I don't know, the tide is moving really briskly in one direction and you decide to swim against it.

Speaker 1 That's more than just like a casual decision. That's a serious decision.
And I'm just trying to get to the heart heart of why you made it.

Speaker 1 Because you're clearly a thoughtful person who doesn't like do random, you're a doctor.

Speaker 1 You don't just do random things one day. It's like, what was it? Was it instinct?

Speaker 2 I think it was more, yeah, instinct. And

Speaker 2 everything was so busy during that time. I mean, I couldn't think straight.
I mean, we were, it was just slammed.

Speaker 2 And I just remember thinking, oh, I'm just going to go get this over with and just knock this off my list. And then when it didn't happen, I thought, well, this is this is a sign.

Speaker 2 You know, I'm not going back.

Speaker 2 So it may just be instinct.

Speaker 1 Or providence. Providence.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, that decision changed your life, of course, because it puts you on the other side

Speaker 1 from everyone else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did your patients do with COVID?

Speaker 2 Everybody. So I used to give out my cell phone to everybody, especially the sick ones.

Speaker 2 Everybody that got early treatment survived. I even had some really, really sick people come in

Speaker 2 in the second and third week. So second, third week is when the inflammatory cascades set in and people get really sick.

Speaker 2 I had a man come in with an oxygen saturation in the 60s, and he was not a healthy guy. He'd had a history of a heart attack.
He had a history of throat cancer.

Speaker 2 He was a veteran, and he basically said, I'm not going to the hospital. Because normally if somebody walked to my office like that, I'd call the ambulance and say, hey,

Speaker 2 but I had to allow him to potentially die in my office, which was very scary.

Speaker 2 But, and I had a handful of people like this. He wasn't so bad.

Speaker 1 He sounds like he's on the brink.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, he was bad.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I had nurses that could do IVs. So we gave him high-dose steroids and IV.
We gave him antibiotics, breathing treatments, high-dose IV vitamin C. We gave him high-dose ivermectin.

Speaker 2 And we brought him in every day as an outpatient because I didn't have a hospital bed in my office.

Speaker 2 and um and he survived and i had a lot like that so it was very gratifying i learned a lot i mean it was i learned that just because somebody's oxygen saturation is low they don't need to be immediately put on a ventilator which is the dogma that we came into the pandemic with but i think that dogma has changed or at least i'm not in medicine of course but for normal people there is this sense that like stay away from ventilators.

Speaker 1 Right. Do you think that's a fair feeling?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I can see why doctors did it initially.

Speaker 1 I get it.

Speaker 2 Because, you know, if somebody's struggling to breathe, that's a really scary, distressful feeling for a patient.

Speaker 1 Yes. When you can't get enough oxygen.
It's horrible.

Speaker 2 So I can understand. But I guess what I don't understand is why they didn't do more to keep them off the ventilator.
It's bizarre to me.

Speaker 2 I mean, they gave him steroids, but they gave him very small doses of steroids. I mean, why didn't they just throw the kitchen sink at these people?

Speaker 2 And they just got stuck in these protocols

Speaker 2 and just basically allowed people to die.

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Speaker 1 So you said you didn't want to go to the hospital. I live in a obviously tiny world like we all do, but I don't know anybody who in my world who wants to go to the hospital.

Speaker 1 I know a lot of people who have resolved, I'm never going to the hospital. And they really, you know, I've seen it.
Very sick people. I'm not going.

Speaker 1 What do you think of that attitude?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I realized I've been in the hospital seven times and I know. Well, childbirth.
As a physician?

Speaker 1 Oh, well, childbirth. As a patient.
As a patient.

Speaker 2 And one of them, I was really sick. I mean, I had pneumonia and sepsis.
And I'm very grateful to the people who helped me.

Speaker 2 And this is from the flu, and I had gotten a flu shot, by the way.

Speaker 2 But now, like you said, I mean, everybody is terrified to go to the hospital. I mean, the hospital used to be the place you go to

Speaker 2 the safe place. That's where you go.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 And now people are terrified to go to the hospital. And so, you know, our current administration needs.
If they don't do anything, that's a big problem because

Speaker 2 the trust has just been destroyed.

Speaker 1 Do you see that with your patients?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. That's the most common question I get is where should I go if I need to go to the hospital? And I don't have a great answer for them.
You know, your best bet is just keep yourself healthy.

Speaker 2 I mean, the biggest thing people can do is keep themselves healthy. Manage your diet, manage your stress, get enough sleep, exercise, get enough sun,

Speaker 2 and just stay out of the hospital. But keeping your weight under control is probably number one.

Speaker 1 Is it really?

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Because you gain weight,

Speaker 2 you're more susceptible to infection, you're more susceptible to heart disease, you're more susceptible to cancer, and those are the big three.

Speaker 1 And you have to buy new clothes, which is unacceptable. Yep.
You don't want to buy new clothes. Right.

Speaker 2 Well, but you know, if you lose weight, you have to put I've, so I did carnivore for six months, and I had to buy a whole new wardrobe.

Speaker 1 Um, that I'm speaking as a man. You can't buy new clothes.
You can't? No. Why? Not It's against the rules.
Oh, oh. Can't buy new clothes.

Speaker 1 That's what keeps me in line.

Speaker 1 Just, sorry.

Speaker 1 Really good about it. It worked that well.

Speaker 2 I weigh now what I weighed in high school. I never thought I'd get to that point.
I did it for six months.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's not for everybody, but I will say it's a lot safer than Ozempic and Mongiorno.

Speaker 2 And it's very simple. I mean, you basically eliminate all carbohydrates from your diet.
You just eat meat and fat.

Speaker 1 Cheese. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you snack on bacon. I mean, it's crazy.
And you're like shedding pounds. It's boring, but it's simple.
You don't count calories. You don't get hungry.

Speaker 2 I mean, you do go through the sugar withdrawal. Sugar is very addictive.

Speaker 1 What do you think?

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 1 but what do you think of fasting?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I tried the intermittent fasting. It did not work for me.
I've heard that for women, it's not as effective.

Speaker 2 I worry that it slows down metabolism, but I have never tried it, and I know people swear by it.

Speaker 1 So you don't have a good answer on the hospital question, I noticed.

Speaker 2 Oh, oh, how to how to fix that?

Speaker 1 No, like what do you do if you get sick? Like,

Speaker 1 your answer was don't get sick.

Speaker 2 Well, if you have to go to the hospital, be prepared. Have somebody with you.

Speaker 2 Have your,

Speaker 2 there is a patient bill of rights. You have rights in the hospital.
Make sure you know those people.

Speaker 1 I haven't noticed them.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 they don't advertise them.

Speaker 1 Why do do doctors patronize patients? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, that that's a bit, and it's information.

Speaker 1 What is that? Treating them like children?

Speaker 2 Well, when I started

Speaker 2 20, 23 years ago, um, patients didn't have a lot of access to information, not like they have now.

Speaker 2 So, we were in charge. We were definitely in charge because we had the information.

Speaker 2 And patients, really, unless they had textbooks, they didn't have it because it wasn't, we didn't have online information.

Speaker 2 And now, I mean, patients are well-informed. And so, every conversation I have with a patient, I'm, I know that they have been researching and they have a lot of information at their disposal.

Speaker 2 And I think a lot of doctors don't like that.

Speaker 2 I embrace it because

Speaker 2 I learn from my patients. And if a patient finds something, I will dig into it because I don't have time to dig into all of everything, right? And you see weird things, and I like it.

Speaker 2 But I think that doctors don't like that.

Speaker 2 It's a power thing. And

Speaker 2 I mean, it can be frustrating on the flip side. If you feel like you really know what's going on and you're challenged by something somebody's read on the internet, that can be frustrating.

Speaker 2 But it's, yeah, the doctors just don't.

Speaker 2 It's a power thing and an ego thing mostly.

Speaker 1 That was my suspicion.

Speaker 1 So what did you end up thinking of the shot?

Speaker 1 The COVID shot.

Speaker 2 It's horrible. It needs to be pulled off the market.
It should have been pulled off the market a long time ago.

Speaker 2 I looked at my patients in the two years following the rollout of the COVID shots, and 7% of my new patients were coming to see me for severe injuries.

Speaker 2 I've never seen anything like it with any other product on the market.

Speaker 2 If this were an antibiotic and you were seeing all these side effects, it would have been yanked off a long time ago. Normally,

Speaker 2 The FDA will put a black box warning on a medication if there have been five deaths. They will pull it off the market if there have been 50.

Speaker 2 Well, according to VARES, which VARES is vaccine adverse event reporting system,

Speaker 2 and it's vastly under-reported, which I have seen firsthand because it's been in place for 50 years or something.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's longitudinal, so we can see the response to all these different medications, right?

Speaker 2 According to VARES, there have been 38,000 deaths from these COVID shots. So, under normal circumstances, the FDA would have pulled it.
But instead, they've doubled down.

Speaker 2 They've put the shots on the childhood vaccine schedule.

Speaker 2 All babies are expected to get three COVID shots by the time they're nine months old. The shots are still under EUA status for this age group.

Speaker 2 So, under 12, they're not even fully approved by the FDA, and yet they're on the vaccine schedule.

Speaker 2 And according to the CDC, 9 million American children have gotten the latest version of these COVID shots. Actually, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 Still?

Speaker 2 Yes, yes, 9 million.

Speaker 2 twelve percent

Speaker 2 the um the concern i have with these kids so we know myra car

Speaker 1 this is going on right now yes

Speaker 1 i think we voted against this yeah correct i don't know

Speaker 1 you're very diplomatic um but i'm just stunned to learn that that's happening right now yeah

Speaker 1 Could this be shut down?

Speaker 2 It should have been shut down a long time ago.

Speaker 1 And, you know, what's the nine million babies have had COVID shots?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, children,

Speaker 2 minors.

Speaker 1 Is it compulsory?

Speaker 2 It's still compulsory in some states, yes. In some businesses, not in Texas.
So Texas actually passed a law. outlawing mandates for COVID shots.

Speaker 2 But I actually reached out to people on Twitter yesterday and they said, all these people said, yeah, it's still requiring the shots for jobs or a nursing program or

Speaker 2 even transplants.

Speaker 1 So we're going to let you die unless you get the shot.

Speaker 1 How could we fix that?

Speaker 2 Well, the shots need to be pulled off the market immediately.

Speaker 1 Who could do that?

Speaker 2 Who could do that? The FDA.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So Marty McCarry.

Speaker 2 He could do that.

Speaker 2 And then we need accountability. I mean, we need, we can't sweep this under the rug because we will never restore that trust.
And that's, that's the key thing is if

Speaker 2 nothing happens, it's just a festering wound and

Speaker 2 the trust will never come back.

Speaker 1 Are there any indications that this is coming soon?

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm not privy to conversations in the government.

Speaker 1 I think you probably follow this as closely as anybody. There's so much going on, so I'm going to just plead ignorance on that basis.
There's like a lot. Yeah.
Multiple wars and the economy.

Speaker 1 And, you know, there's just a lot to distract you from this question. But I think it's a really important question.
But you are focused on it.

Speaker 1 Have you seen any sign at all that these products, which according to the self-reporting system VARES, have killed 38,000 people, that they're going to be pulled off the market?

Speaker 2 I have not. I mean, it seems to me that HHS, their focus now has shifted, or I don't know, their focus is

Speaker 2 on food and food quality and improving that.

Speaker 2 And I haven't heard a word about COVID or the COVID shots.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 2 Not, I mean, maybe I've missed something, but

Speaker 2 that's, I mean, I'm just reading what you're reading. I mean, I don't.

Speaker 1 Food is like smoking and I love bad food and I love smoking. I don't smoke anymore, but I loved it.
And I'll just say say that and I don't hate me for it, but it's just true.

Speaker 1 That's why people do it because they love it. And I love pizza.

Speaker 1 I don't think I ever smoked a cigarette. I don't think I've ever eaten a slice of pizza without knowing it was bad for me.
Yeah, exactly. It's common sense.

Speaker 1 It is common sense. I mean, I do think like we shouldn't allow food stamps or snap to be used for Coca-Cola.
Okay, obviously. There are changes you can make for sure.

Speaker 1 But like, you know, when you're eating garbage, that's why you call it garbage. I'm 55.
They called it that in 1975. They'd be like, oh, you're junk food.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 You know what junk food is? Right. It's the delicious stuff.

Speaker 1 So, like, I'm not, I mean, I think it's important. I do think eating right is important.
And I try.

Speaker 1 Not going to eat any freaking vegetables, though, but whatever.

Speaker 1 But like the COVID stuff seemed the, the vat, the shot seems like an imminent threat.

Speaker 2 Yes. And my concern, giving it to babies, because myocardians.

Speaker 1 I think You're positive that's actually happening. Babies are getting this.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 You can find it on the CD. I trust you.

Speaker 1 It's just freaking me out. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's why we can't let this just go away.

Speaker 2 Babies. So myocarditis, we know there's an increased risk of myocarditis in teenage boys who take these shots.
We don't know what that risk is for nonverbal babies because the symptom is chest pain.

Speaker 2 So a baby,

Speaker 2 the baby could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea. Myocarditis can leave a scar on the heart.
And then years later,

Speaker 2 the heart is permanently.

Speaker 1 Right, you're playing lacrosse and you drop. Right.

Speaker 2 And that's my big concern. These babies could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea.

Speaker 1 Do you believe

Speaker 1 that those shots are responsible for permanent immune system damage?

Speaker 2 I think, well, what I have been looking at is spike protein antibody levels. So when you get a vaccine, you can, traditionally, we call them titers.

Speaker 2 So like people who get hepatitis B vaccine, you can look at the titers, the antibody levels, and see if you have protection. We do that in the hospital a lot.

Speaker 2 So they want to make sure if you work in the hospital, if you get stuck by a needle, you're not going to get hepatitis B.

Speaker 2 So I've started looking at these spike protein antibody levels, and it's alarming because the people, I can tell immediately if somebody had the shot and in the vaccinated these antibody levels are i i did an average um last night 13 000 and the unvaccinated average is a thousand so there's huge discrepancy and this is years after the shot yeah years after and these people most of these people have gotten two maybe three

Speaker 2 um nobody's gotten more than that and none of these people have been sick recently with covid um so it's very alarming to me it suggests i mean we don't know but we it suggests that spike protein is still active and still replicating possibly in the body.

Speaker 2 I mean, the mRNA in these shots is not mRNA. It's a synthetic mRNA, and it was made to avoid degradation.
So it's made to stay in the body. That was the purpose of it, of modifying it.

Speaker 2 So when I see these levels like this, it really concerns me that we have an issue with this ongoing spike protein in the body.

Speaker 1 What are the consequences of that, do you think?

Speaker 2 Well, I think cancer is a big concern. I think immune dysfunction.

Speaker 1 How would that affect cancer?

Speaker 2 Well, the spike protein is oncogenic.

Speaker 2 Shun Shin talked about that.

Speaker 2 So viruses can be oncogenic. It appears that the spike protein, the mRNA shots, have SV40 in it, which is an oncogenic virus.

Speaker 2 There's something called frame shifting. So

Speaker 2 when the mRNA is in production, it is integrating, that it can produce new proteins just by little mistakes that happen.

Speaker 2 So these new proteins, we don't know what they are, but they could cause autoimmune disease and possibly cancer as well. There's just a lot unknowns.

Speaker 2 I mean, we don't even, we need a test to detect spike protein. All we have now is an antibody test.

Speaker 2 We really need a lot more re, we need an antidote. We need, I mean, I am struggling because I have all these injured people and I usually start with ivermectin.
And ivermectin helps.

Speaker 2 It binds to spike protein and it's anti-inflammatory. But we're really limited and we need a solution.

Speaker 2 So we need the NIH to really dig into this and help these injured patients because they, they're very challenging.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, we're sort of just, experimenting because we don't know.

Speaker 1 And they're not helping?

Speaker 2 I would say, I mean, I get, you know, I've tried a lot of things, and the thing that works the best is ivermectin.

Speaker 2 But it's slow going. It's, you know, I usually put people on for a long period of time before saying, okay, this is not going to work.

Speaker 2 And it's just hard because we, you know, there's just not, we need the NIH to step up and help us.

Speaker 1 Time for another true life Alp story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday, honestly, true story, who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over Alp.
He wouldn't stop.

Speaker 1 And I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad.
Imagine if I'd married her.

Speaker 1 Now I know I was saved. Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice the speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap.

Speaker 1 Cop takes his license registration, goes back to the patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window, and sees a tin of ALP on the dashboard, pauses, stunned, says to my friend, you use Alp?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do, says my friend. So do I, says the cop.
We all do. He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir, and hands back his license and registration.
No ticket.

Speaker 1 So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like Alp and a speeding ticket. All true.
It's more than a nickel.

Speaker 1 In an agenda, 350 million, people are guessing there are about 350 million ALP stories. Email us yours.

Speaker 1 We want to know and read it on the air. Email tellall at alp pouch.com.
Tell all at alpouch.com. Give us your Alp story.

Speaker 2 What do you think makes the perfect snack?

Speaker 3 Hmm.

Speaker 5 It's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

Speaker 4 Could you be more specific?

Speaker 5 When it's convenient.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 5 Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right now in the street at AM PM or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at AM PM.

Speaker 2 I'm seeing a pattern here.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, we're talking about what I crave.

Speaker 2 Which is anything from AM P.M.

Speaker 5 What more could you want?

Speaker 6 Stop by AMPM, where the snacks and drinks are perfectly cravable and convenient. That's cravenience.
AMPM, too much good stuff.

Speaker 1 So one of the primary platforms we use for distribution is YouTube, which in general has been great, actually, if I'm being honest. A lot less censorship than I got in any television job I ever had.

Speaker 1 So we're really grateful to YouTube. I never thought I'd say that.
But the one area where we get censored by YouTube is when we talk about the COVID shot,

Speaker 1 which I think is really interesting.

Speaker 1 So this will probably be censored on YouTube, but

Speaker 1 I just want to ask you, but you're a physician, clinical physician. You're treating people,

Speaker 1 thousands of people.

Speaker 1 And so I feel like I have to ask you this. Tell us about the injuries you are seeing.

Speaker 2 So I don't get the sudden you know collapse uh myocarditis stroke sort of situation because i'm outpatient soccer players right i see i see the um

Speaker 2 yeah it's it varies but uh i've seen some very strange rashes that don't go away with steroids and antihistamines and have actually like rashes like bumpy red splotchy i mean i had this poor kid 15 years old it was all all over his face all over his body and he responded so well to ivermectin that was a great case

Speaker 1 So are you sure that was vaccinated?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it came on right. I mean, he had no prior history.
It came on. He's 15.
He's 15. It came on right after the COVID shots.

Speaker 2 I see POTS. So POTS is when the blood pressure drops suddenly or goes up real high suddenly for no clear trigger and your pulse may be erratic as well.

Speaker 2 That's been a big thing with the COVID patients. That's very difficult to fix.
I've seen a lot of neurological.

Speaker 1 Can I ask about what does POT stand for?

Speaker 2 Postural orthostatic

Speaker 1 hyper or temporal hypertension.

Speaker 2 Ah, postural orthostatic syncope.

Speaker 1 I don't understand a single word of that. I probably shouldn't have asked you, but like, what are its effects?

Speaker 2 But so you feel faint. So you may just be standing there and your blood pressure drops or

Speaker 2 your pulse goes up way high and you feel like you're having a panic attack, that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 So it's symptomatic changes in your blood pressure that occur without any kind of trigger.

Speaker 1 What? I mean, that sounds like it could be dangerous.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's very hard to treat.

Speaker 2 So I see a lot of that. I've seen neurological tremors.

Speaker 1 Oh, come on.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no. Tremors.
I've saw a patient a little bit older than me, CEO of a company. He came in and he gave me his business card and he said, hi, I'm this so-and-so.

Speaker 2 And he gave me his other card. And he'd go, and this is the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life.
He gave me his vaccine card.

Speaker 2 Very difficult to, I mean, we've gotten a little bit of improvement, but just, you know, and a lot of fatigue.

Speaker 1 Hand tremors.

Speaker 2 Whole body, his whole body.

Speaker 1 No way.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Even when he sleeps.

Speaker 1 That's got to affect every patient.

Speaker 2 A lot of these patients say they feel a lot of burning, like pins and needles when they sleep,

Speaker 2 which is typical with neuropathy.

Speaker 1 That sounds like a life destroyer.

Speaker 2 No, yeah, it's it's bad. And they don't just, it's not like giving them an antibiotic and a week later they're better.
These are chronic conditions.

Speaker 2 And the government's not helping. So, you know, Breanne Dressen of React 19, I don't know if she, so React 19 is an organization started to help the injured from you know with the COVID shots.

Speaker 2 The head of that organization was involved in the AstraZeneca trial. So

Speaker 2 she volunteered to be a guinea pig and she got injured. Government just came out and said they're not going to help her.
They're not going to give her any kind of financial reimbursement.

Speaker 1 When?

Speaker 2 Maybe a week or two ago.

Speaker 1 I don't understand. Like, we didn't vote for this at all.
Right.

Speaker 1 I mean, the government, well, in her case, she was part of the clinical trials, you said. Right.

Speaker 1 But everybody else,

Speaker 1 not including me and you,

Speaker 1 took it because we were

Speaker 1 the subject of like the biggest propaganda campaign in American history. So we were forced by the government to take it.
Right.

Speaker 1 By the way, why aren't the companies paying these people?

Speaker 2 Companies have no liability risk with these products. And the PrEP Act even further protects them.

Speaker 2 Where is the PrEP Act passed?

Speaker 2 It does not expire until 2029.

Speaker 1 And so under the PrEP Act, they're even more shielded?

Speaker 2 Anything that happens, anything that's designated as a countermeasure is protected.

Speaker 2 So anything that happens in the hospitals, anything that happens from these shots, it's all protected from liability.

Speaker 2 There is one really monumental lawsuit going on that could change that.

Speaker 2 Brooke Jackson is a whistleblower for Pfizer, and she was involved in the research. So she was at the clinical trial sites.

Speaker 2 She was the manager, and she was seeing all sorts of issues with the way they were conducting the trial. And she brought that to the company's attention.

Speaker 2 She brought that to the FDA's attention, and she was fired. So she has been in this gigantic legal battle against Pfizer for a long time now.
I think we're going on four years. And unfortunately,

Speaker 2 and this was during Biden, the DOJ stepped in and

Speaker 2 basically said, no, you can't sue Pfizer. It's crazy.
You can't sue Pfizer.

Speaker 1 Oh, of course. You can't sue Pfizer.

Speaker 2 The DOJ stuck up for Pfizer, which is not usually how that works.

Speaker 1 I'm surprised they didn't arrest her for complaining. Exactly.

Speaker 1 This has got to be making him pretty radical.

Speaker 2 It doesn't seem very radical to me. It seems like common sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You don't seem like a radical person, but this makes me feel radical.
So neurological symptoms, and you're pretty convinced those are also from the shot.

Speaker 2 Well, you look at, okay, what was their past history? Do they have any issues? Were they otherwise healthy? And then when did these things start happening? And the timeline.

Speaker 2 And then the other thing is they typically go to other doctors and they get the million-dollar workup and they can't can't find anything to explain it and the doctors are baffled.

Speaker 2 They put them on psychiatric medications.

Speaker 1 Not really.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I saw one patient on a sleeping pill, a benzodiazepine, and an antidepressant.

Speaker 1 SSRI.

Speaker 1 Why do we have so many mass shooters in this country? I don't know. It's baffling.

Speaker 1 That's shocking.

Speaker 1 So they used to, I mean, in just American culture, they used to make fun of 19th century medical cures for hysteria.

Speaker 1 You know, it was always like, you know, like the Victorian medical cures. And one would have a problem, they'd be like, here's a giant vibrator.
Or, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, literally, they made that. Like, it's all in your head, honey.
Calm down.

Speaker 1 And that was like a trope. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 and I was hardly a feminist, but I was kind of sympathetic to that. Like, don't, don't just like dismiss people.
You know what I mean? Tell them they're hysterical. Right.

Speaker 1 But that's, that's what what you're describing

Speaker 2 yes they don't get reported to various i've had to report every single patient that came to my to see me for an injury i was the one even though they'd seen multiple other doctors it was me that had to report it to various so i know it's underreported various is one of those things um i love the idea of vars and

Speaker 2 it

Speaker 1 i remember reading the various report in 2021 when i worked on in television and just going on one night and reading it, like, here's what's been reported from this compound that people are being forced to take.

Speaker 1 And man, I got so attacked by the Atlantic magazine and everybody. It's like, no, this is a federal reporting system.
Right. And that was kind of the last I ever heard of VARES.

Speaker 1 Like, no one ever mentions it. Like,

Speaker 1 what's the point of having it if it's like irrelevant?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not subtle. If you look on there, you know, you don't have to have a degree in statistics to understand what's going on.
I mean, it's like nothing's happening.

Speaker 2 and then whoosh, you know, just it's especially not subtle.

Speaker 1 It was in place during the rollout of a bunch of other vaccines. Right.
Like going a long way back. So it's like, you know, measles, rubella,

Speaker 1 right? COVID. Exactly.
Right. Yeah.
I don't have any degree and I could, I could understand that.

Speaker 1 So does it, do you ever hear federal officials make reference to VARS?

Speaker 2 Not to my knowledge. I mean, I could have missed that, but no.

Speaker 1 So the idea with VARES seems to be that people are complaining again. They need to shut up.

Speaker 2 Apparently. It's one more thing that's being swept under the rug.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you've told a much sadder story than I expected to hear.

Speaker 1 Are you concerned that because the technology in these shots was brand new, never. deployed before at scale anyway, is that correct? Right.

Speaker 1 And the,

Speaker 1 you know, the trials for these drugs were like, I think we can say it's fair to say a joke. Right.

Speaker 1 That there are consequences that like haven't manifest yet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's hard to get up-to-date cancer numbers, but I'm hearing all sorts of things.

Speaker 1 Why is it hard to get up-to-date cancer numbers?

Speaker 2 That's a good question.

Speaker 1 We're in the middle of a cancer moonshot, doctor. Right, right.

Speaker 2 There's probably people that have access to that data, but publicly it's hard.

Speaker 2 And, you know, so I have to rely, I don't see a ton of cancer in my practice, but I do have friends at MD Anderson, and they said they've never seen anything like it.

Speaker 2 The young people coming in with very advanced tumors, I think that's what we have to be worried about now.

Speaker 1 Can I ask you, you've made reference like five times to numbers and the difficulty in getting numbers. I don't understand why.

Speaker 1 I mean, I understand why the identity of patients is shielded by federal law. That seems reasonable to me for privacy reasons.
But, you know,

Speaker 1 just the fact that someone has this or that disease with no identifying markers connected, like, that seems like it should be public information. How is that not?

Speaker 1 Why is there so much secrecy around medical data? Yeah. The data itself.

Speaker 2 It could be, there could be an agenda behind it. It could just be a total inefficiency of the bureaucracy.
It's hard to say. But

Speaker 2 yeah, it'd be nice if we could have more data.

Speaker 1 Well, isn't that essential to science?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 But, you know, it's also, I guess, it's complicated in some degrees to get it all out there.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 2 yeah, transparency would be

Speaker 2 even

Speaker 2 aside from the cancer numbers. I mean, like I said, with COVID, there are all these hospitals that had so much data at their disposal and didn't share it.

Speaker 2 It'd be nice to see Houston Methodists come out and share their data with us since they were the first. They led the way with the mandates.

Speaker 2 It'd be nice to see how successful that effort was for their employees and for their patients.

Speaker 1 Can a lawsuit force that?

Speaker 2 I actually sued them to get that data.

Speaker 1 Man, you were ferocious.

Speaker 2 I lost.

Speaker 1 On what grounds?

Speaker 2 I don't know. It was just political grounds, I think.

Speaker 2 I sued to get their financial data because because, as a nonprofit, they are supposed to give it to you if somebody from the public wants to know.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 1 this is what they get in exchange for not paying property taxes. Right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2 But there was some technicality.

Speaker 2 I don't understand really why we lost, but we did. We even appealed and we lost on appeal.

Speaker 1 Do you think that

Speaker 1 COVID,

Speaker 1 clearly, there's been no reckoning.

Speaker 1 You've not been been recognized for your bravery and prescience. You called it, and you should be rewarded for that.
You haven't been, likely never will be. So there's so much about it.

Speaker 1 The shots are still being given to babies. That's my takeaway from this conversation.

Speaker 1 There's no effort to pull this stuff from the market, 38,000 deaths later. There's no recourse the average person has.

Speaker 1 You can't afford to hire lawyers, and you can't sue the companies that make these products, and you can't sue the government officials that force you to take these products.

Speaker 1 Like everything about it is just pure Orwell.

Speaker 1 So that's the downside and it's like crushing actually to hear all of this from you. I didn't expect to hear this.

Speaker 1 What are the upsides? Like people are more aware. Do you see medicine in the United States getting better now that people who are paying attention know what's up?

Speaker 2 I think people are feeling more empowered, which is how they should be. I mean, they're not listening to the government for their healthcare decisions anymore.

Speaker 2 I think people have learned from that mistake.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 I haven't lost all hope.

Speaker 2 I'm grateful. You know,

Speaker 2 there was a time where I couldn't even, I was banned from Twitter. I don't know if you were,

Speaker 2 but, you know, we are, free speech is coming back. I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 I mean, they, I'm not. Like, they couldn't ban me from Twitter, so they didn't.
Yeah, yeah. But,

Speaker 1 but they could ban

Speaker 1 much more informed. Plus, how am am I a threat? I'm just some like random talk show host with an opinion.

Speaker 1 The people they want to ban are the people who are telling the informed truth, the physicians who are treating thousands of COVID patients. Like, you're the threat, not me.

Speaker 1 You're like, I'm a doctor. I'm a reasonable person.
I'm not political. Here's what I'm learning.
They have to ban you.

Speaker 2 Right, right. Well, and, you know, we're making, hey, I, I'm grateful to you for having me on here because this is old news to most people.
right? And,

Speaker 2 you know, we just need to keep speaking out. We just need to keep, I mean, my foot is on the pedal, you know, even though there is no pandemic anymore.

Speaker 2 But we must just keep pounding away at this.

Speaker 1 Well, it sounds like indications suggest, I mean, I don't, you don't want to overstate anything, but it feels like

Speaker 1 the consequences are still rippling.

Speaker 1 And I don't know why there's not an organized effort to find out, you know, are cancer rate spiking. We eliminated cigarette smoking, which was supposedly the main driver of cancer.

Speaker 1 I was there for all that. They

Speaker 1 beat me into quitting, which is fine. You know, smoking is bad.
I got it.

Speaker 1 But like, cancer went up.

Speaker 1 So, like, at some point, I would say, stop.

Speaker 1 You told me this. The opposite happened.
Let's talk about why. Right.
I'm not attacking you, but like, I demand an answer.

Speaker 1 And I don't know why. How hard is that to get some statistician at NIH or wherever, HHS,

Speaker 1 to tell me what's happening with cancer rates and pediatric cancer rates, especially, because that's like crazy town.

Speaker 2 I think, you know, the money is there for the treatment, not for the cause, right? So it is, you know, there's lots of money. It's just going to.
Well, that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 Like, how can you recommend treatment without knowing its effect? How can you, you can't make any wise decision without all the facts, as we say, right?

Speaker 2 Right. But this is not, I mean, this is financially driven.
So if you're in it to

Speaker 2 make money, you're going to go after the treatment, not the cause.

Speaker 1 Very cynical about medical care.

Speaker 2 That's seen a lot.

Speaker 1 Would you have gone into this if you had known?

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm sorry, not to get you to reevaluate your life.

Speaker 2 It's been very difficult, but it's been impactful. And

Speaker 2 in some ways, I'm glad it happened. It's been very educational.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, I have hope that it will change.

Speaker 2 It may take another generation, but COVID should be the wake-up call.

Speaker 2 And the seeds were there before COVID, but

Speaker 2 COVID brought it all out there. And hopefully,

Speaker 2 you know, we could actually learn from it and change course.

Speaker 1 You said you got a flu shot and then

Speaker 1 you wound up in the hospital with pneumonia and sepsis. I'm certain not to laugh at your illness, but

Speaker 1 you got a flu shot. I've never had a flu shot

Speaker 1 because I'm lazy, but

Speaker 1 you clearly believe, you know, you wouldn't have got it. You're a doctor, you wouldn't have gotten it unless you thought it was efficacious.
Right. So you got one.

Speaker 1 Has what you've seen over the past five years changed your view of other vaccine courses?

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I,

Speaker 2 what I've realized is I made a lot of assumptions about vaccines. It was, you know, the gospel according to vaccines when I was in training.
There was no questioning it. It was just accepted fact.

Speaker 2 They were safe and effective. And COVID made me realize that, well, hold on, maybe, let's see how they were tested.
And they have not been tested like other products on the market.

Speaker 2 So they don't have placebo-controlled trials. Any of them? No, not like the other products on the market.
And they don't have liability protection. So the companies are not motivated.

Speaker 1 They don't have liability exposure.

Speaker 2 Yeah, sorry. Yes.
So the companies are not motivated.

Speaker 2 There's no repercussion if something goes wrong. And there's no reason for it to spend a lot of money to ensure that it's safe.
So now, you know, I have questions about all of them.

Speaker 2 Now, I will say I've not seen the carnage from flu shot that I've seen with the COVID shot. I think there's a different degree of danger there.

Speaker 2 But it does make me question it all. And if you look at the flu shot, in fact, has never been shown to decrease hospitalization or death in people that get the flu shot.

Speaker 2 And it actually makes you more susceptible to other viruses.

Speaker 2 And you can treat it. So

Speaker 1 I had a child who was badly injured by the flu vaccine. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 And for me, that was one of the drivers in not.

Speaker 1 I mean, when it happened, it was.

Speaker 1 almost 20 years ago, I had no idea that I never thought that vaccines could hurt anybody.

Speaker 1 It never even entered my mind. I thought they were like one of the great miracles of science.
I was so proud that we developed the polio vaccine, which I'm not against, but I didn't know that they had

Speaker 1 potential downsides. And that's one of the reasons I was like a little slow to want to

Speaker 1 prepare.

Speaker 1 But anyway,

Speaker 1 what would you do? So it sounds like you're not like against vaccines, but from what you just said, the system around vaccines does not put patient safety at the forefront of concern. Right.

Speaker 1 So, how would you change that?

Speaker 2 Well, remove their liability protection, require them to go through. Do you have liability protection?

Speaker 1 Do I? Yeah. No, no, I don't actually.

Speaker 1 I don't either.

Speaker 1 You know, we need that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, it'd be nice.

Speaker 1 You just can't sue me.

Speaker 1 I'm such a good person. What I do is so important to the Commonwealth that you literally can't sue me.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 That would be great.

Speaker 1 Sorry, excuse me.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So, I mean, just make them go through the process any other product has to go through.
It's not very complicated.

Speaker 1 So that's the first thing you do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Why isn't that happening?

Speaker 1 Apparently,

Speaker 2 when this, it was in 1986 and when Reagan put the act in place, I guess there were two companies that almost got just decimated financially because of all the kickback, the lawsuits.

Speaker 2 That should have been a warning sign.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I obviously hate lawyers. I've never sued anybody.
I don't think I ever will.

Speaker 1 I really hate lawyers quite as much as doctors, but in that range. Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I'm against lawsuits too. I get it.
I totally get it. Some of the tort awards are insane and all of that stuff.
But

Speaker 1 I also think it's fair if someone keeps getting sued for the same thing.

Speaker 1 Like, if I get a sexual harassment suit for political reasons,

Speaker 1 if I get eight of them,

Speaker 1 like maybe I'm proping people, right?

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Is that fair?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's fair. Yeah.

Speaker 1 As an empiricist, you agree with me.

Speaker 2 Yes, I am on board with that.

Speaker 1 So, last question. What are you going to do now that this is all over? Like, how are you, other than treating patients, how are you, as a formally politically disengaged person, spending your time?

Speaker 2 I try to get away from it all as much as I can.

Speaker 2 And that's what I would advise anybody: just find something, a hobby that gets you away from things and get outside as much as you can.

Speaker 2 I'm probably going to slow down my practice a little bit just to give myself some breathing room. And I still have four boys in high school.

Speaker 2 But I will continue to speak out. And

Speaker 2 I may do a podcast.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do, but the fight's not over.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Doctor. I really appreciate it.
That was great.

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