War With Iran? The Prime Minister of Qatar Is Being Attacked in the Media for Wanting to Stop It

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Speaker 3 Thanks for joining us, Mr. Prime Minister.
Thank you you very much. So you had the World Cup a few years ago here.
It was very widely covered around the world.

Speaker 3 And part of the coverage, maybe the majority of the coverage, was not about soccer, football. It was about your country and how it was, you know,

Speaker 3 needed to come into line with the social mores of the West, etc. It was a lot of lecturing

Speaker 3 to your country about the way that you live. Did you feel that?

Speaker 2 Well, it's unfortunate. You know, there are

Speaker 2 the whole purpose of hosting the World Cup is to bring the world together in that country, to put the country in the spotlight about the football, about the tournament, and about people coming together.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately,

Speaker 2 countries and some NGOs try to use this as an opportunity to attack

Speaker 2 on values of the society itself, on the values of the country, of the community, by using it as an opportunity to change these values and to impose their own values on our country and our people.

Speaker 2 That's something

Speaker 2 was expected from our side that we will be attacked, we will be

Speaker 2 hearing a lot of lectures about values and things that are not belongs to us.

Speaker 2 And basically our decision from the beginning that we don't need to change the country for one month tournament and I cannot change the value of a whole society and impose on them values that I don't believe in.

Speaker 2 And it's against every principle in our society, against the principles of Islam, against the principles of Christianity as well.

Speaker 2 And that's basically

Speaker 2 we said very clear,

Speaker 2 we respect

Speaker 2 everybody who's coming here as long as they are respecting the laws in that country. as you are expecting from the Qataris when they visit any of your countries in Europe to respect your laws.

Speaker 2 And basically that's what we want from the people.

Speaker 2 Anything happens in their personal life, it's their personal life.

Speaker 2 But nothing should happen in public against the laws of the state of Qatar and we will never change.

Speaker 2 The problem that

Speaker 2 those countries and NGOs put a lot of efforts in demonizing this World Cup in order to impose their values, yet

Speaker 2 there were many things happening around the world, and they are just turning a blind eye.

Speaker 2 If they put some efforts and energy on those real issues that affect the human lives around the world, it would be much better than the waste investment that was in campaigns against a country to change its values, to impose new values which are not even

Speaker 2 related to us.

Speaker 3 So, why do you think that is? This used to be called cultural imperialism.

Speaker 3 Taking your values and using force to impose them on another society. But this is probably the richest country per capita in the world.
It's free. Qataris can come and go.

Speaker 3 They don't have to live here. They choose to live here.

Speaker 3 And your values are thousands of years old. Why would it be important for an NGO?

Speaker 3 I thought they were supposed to be feeding people, but instead they're yelling at you for not having enough transgender Qataris. Like, what is the point of that? What do you think that actually is?

Speaker 2 What are are they trying to do? Well, I think it's mainly driven by an agenda that

Speaker 2 these are the things that we would like to see in countries

Speaker 2 that they are not accepting it,

Speaker 2 you know, and societies that they are not accepting it. We need to make it normal for them.
We need to normalize it. Second,

Speaker 2 a lot

Speaker 2 didn't accept the fact that Qatar is a small Arab country,

Speaker 2 can host a a world-class tournament.

Speaker 2 Basically, they were like,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 how

Speaker 2 a lot of attacks that why Qatar won the World Cup, like

Speaker 2 they don't have even the culture of the World Cup. I don't know what's,

Speaker 2 you know, what does it mean?

Speaker 2 If I am a country, like a marginal country, I don't have the right to host a world tournament. And this is more about, honestly, like, I see it like more racism and superiority.

Speaker 2 And that's basically, I think, the main driver for this.

Speaker 3 So an official here told me a funny story, and I want to check to see if it's true. This person told me that some

Speaker 3 bureau or commission in the United Nations was raiding the human rights

Speaker 3 here in Qatar and said, in order to score higher, you have to build nursing homes for your old people to live.

Speaker 3 And this person tried to explain, you know, we don't have nursing homes because old people, parents live with their children.

Speaker 3 But you built them anyway in order to get a higher score on this and they remained empty yeah is that true well it is true actually they are like

Speaker 2 you know uh sometimes when you have international organizations trying to impose certain conditions in order to give you like the better status that will make you look good

Speaker 2 it uh requires from you some steps that you will do that it's not even required needed here in in in this kind of society look utters is a very small country

Speaker 2 the people here

Speaker 2 family matters for us parents matters for us we are in debt to our parents until the last day in their life or in our lives whatever comes first

Speaker 2 if someone

Speaker 2 will left his will leave his parents alone without taking care of it, he will be publicly shamed by the society.

Speaker 2 It's not really an acceptable custom or habit in this country to have your elder, to have your parents staying in a senior home.

Speaker 2 He's the one, the parents are the ones who took care of us when we were children

Speaker 2 until we grew up to become independent and we should we have the duty to take care of them. And that's really the genuine nature of the Qatari society.

Speaker 2 So that's why you end up with something that you don't need.

Speaker 2 It's not according to your value. It's not according to your religion.

Speaker 2 But we build it anyway to

Speaker 2 get the fancy branding.

Speaker 3 It does, if you take three steps back, it's like they're mad at you because you don't have enough transgenders. They're mad at you because you don't put your parents in some institution.

Speaker 3 Maybe they're trying to break up your families.

Speaker 2 well it's it can be it can be a reason honestly i don't know what is uh

Speaker 2 what is really the purpose behind this but uh

Speaker 2 we see that you know a lot of things that are happening are attacks on on on humanity in general it's uh

Speaker 2 when you when you lose the family value when you lose the connection between the family themselves you will lose the connection between the people as well on a broader level on the people in the same neighborhood on the people in the same region, in the same countries.

Speaker 2 And that basically will just make us, you know, as individuals who are,

Speaker 2 quote-unquote, independent from anyone. That's what we will feel.
Yet, it will just make our societies vulnerable and easy to be penetrated. That's right.

Speaker 2 And that's, I think, the main issue that we are facing, and the main threat that we are facing. You have seen,

Speaker 2 Thakur, you spent now a few days in Qatar and you have seen, you came to my home, and you have seen that my home is surrounded by my family homes. And

Speaker 2 I'm not really living in an isolation from them.

Speaker 3 I'm the family.

Speaker 2 Definitely not. The nuclear family, the bigger family, and it's like it's all

Speaker 2 one community, one

Speaker 2 family. And basically, you can apply this and magnify it to the entire country.
This is not the case for Mohammed, this is the case for everyone here.

Speaker 2 People, even when they move temporarily to another neighborhood or to another place 10 minutes away from their family, they feel homesick.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 we believe that

Speaker 2 this is supposed to be the case for all the countries where

Speaker 2 families' bonds matters, families' bonds

Speaker 2 really create

Speaker 2 from your society a strong society that's not easily penetrated. And that's what creates the national unity as well in face of external threats and everything.

Speaker 3 So that's kind of the key is that when you are cut off, when you're alone, you are powerless and you can be controlled. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You can be penetrated. You can't be penetrated, yes.
Very true.

Speaker 3 Your country has been in the American media sporadically recently

Speaker 3 and it's under attack for reasons I don't fully understand. One of the reasons I wanted to come here was to understand why people are mad at you.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I think you've got the biggest overseas U.S. air base right near here.
So you're clearly a U.S. ally.

Speaker 3 But I keep reading reference to Qatar as anti-American or pro-Islamist or a threat to the United States somehow. Where do those attacks come from, do you think?

Speaker 2 Look, as a country, we always want to do the right things.

Speaker 2 And basically, the right things not for only for our people, but for our people, for our region, and for our friends.

Speaker 2 And when you are trying to do the right things,

Speaker 2 sometimes you change your mind, you know, when you hear this kind of criticism.

Speaker 2 But it wasn't really in our culture, because we believe that it serves the real cause behind all these efforts is to bring peace. Peace for the people, peace for the region, and peace for our friends.

Speaker 2 And basically the peace is like is the main foundation for us, for our people to prosper.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 peace has a lot of enemies. A lot of enemies who wants to undermine it for political reason, who wants to undermine it for economic reasons.

Speaker 2 who wants to demonize your effort in order to make sure that

Speaker 2 every step you will take will be suspicious in order to

Speaker 2 control also

Speaker 2 the parties that you are helping in that.

Speaker 2 And basically they don't know by doing such a thing they are not harming us, but they are harming

Speaker 2 the region and they are harming our friends, including the United States.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 having an ally like a partner and friend like Qatar

Speaker 2 with the airbase as one example, and working together very closely on a lot of issues, a lot of files, helping bringing Americans home

Speaker 2 from different countries, whether it was in the evacuation in Afghanistan, whether it's in

Speaker 2 American hostages all around the world, mediating in different conflicts,

Speaker 2 they basically, if they

Speaker 2 keep criticizing Qatar and attacking Qatar,

Speaker 2 they think that this is just harming Qatar and Qatar's reputation. It's not.
It's actually because we always like, you know, we go back to the results. We focus on the outcome.

Speaker 2 and we think about that that should be our objective and we should focus there and we shouldn't really disturb ourselves with any noise. But they don't know that this is harming the US and the U.S.

Speaker 2 interests at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 my sense is that part of the criticism and the confusion from Americans,

Speaker 3 well, there are, I think, two causes. One,

Speaker 3 you have a Hamas office here.

Speaker 3 And Hamas has been designated, I think, repeatedly by the U.S. government, certainly by the Congress, as a terror organization.
And people say, well, how could you have a Hamas office here?

Speaker 3 What is that?

Speaker 2 We have to go back to the root of this, of this office. Like, why it's here in the first place.

Speaker 2 And Hamas office, when it was opened here in the first place, it was opened with full transparency and full consultation and actually even request from the US.

Speaker 3 The US asked you to put a Hamas office here?

Speaker 2 They are actually. They have asked us to open the channels with them and to have an established communication channel with the same case what was applied to Taliban as well.
And look,

Speaker 2 at the end of the day, if you have a presence of someone in your country and you are engaging and talking, it doesn't mean that you are endorsing his ideas.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean that you are supporting him.

Speaker 2 The purpose of this office was to facilitate peace. to stabilize the region and to make sure that

Speaker 2 always it's serving the purpose. And you can go through even everything that all the events that happened in the recent 10 years since the office was officially opened here in Duhan.

Speaker 2 How many peace deals have been brokered from that office through that channel?

Speaker 3 Many of them.

Speaker 2 2014 was

Speaker 2 the discussion and the negotiations was initiated here and ended in Egypt.

Speaker 2 In 2018, 2020,

Speaker 2 and 21

Speaker 2 with all those escalations and many

Speaker 2 of escalations that we avoided to prevent the wars. There are many, plenty of them.
You will lose count. Then, after

Speaker 2 7th of October, the first hostage deal that released the hostages, the women and children,

Speaker 2 was 109 and the foreigners was 109 hostages. November 23

Speaker 2 happened through that office. Second hostage deal, which we are going through right now, it was produced out of this office.
So the office is a communication channel and it doesn't

Speaker 2 make me, you know, feeling shy that I speak with someone whom I have a disagreement with. President Trump spoke with

Speaker 2 North Korea.

Speaker 2 He didn't shy out from him. He met with him, he engaged with him.
He wants to put an end for the conflict. He wants to make a deal with him.

Speaker 2 He's a deal maker and this country basically is brokering deals.

Speaker 3 Initially, at the request of the US government.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 And it continued like everything that we did looked at her. But I'm confident that

Speaker 2 throughout the years that

Speaker 2 I've been working under the leadership of the Emir,

Speaker 2 We are sure that every step we are taking, we are very transparent, coordinating with the US

Speaker 2 and making sure that we are doing the right thing.

Speaker 2 So I have nothing wrong that I did that I am shying away from. I know that

Speaker 2 we have a lot of attacks, and unfortunately,

Speaker 2 We have attacks from

Speaker 2 the US

Speaker 2 legislation, like from the Congress, many times, that although we did it at the request of the government,

Speaker 3 yet

Speaker 2 the Emir always tells me that

Speaker 3 if

Speaker 2 we are able to save a single life, it's worth everything.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell you something, we've been under a significant attack in the last 15 months during this war in Ghaza.

Speaker 2 Unbelievable. No one would handle such an attack.

Speaker 2 And we work tirelessly on achieving this deal.

Speaker 2 And the moment we went out to announce that deal being achieved, and we see the celebration in the streets, whether it's in Gaza or in Israel,

Speaker 2 that moment makes us forget everything.

Speaker 3 You've been attacked by the U.S. Congress.

Speaker 3 The core question for me is, if Qatarzi is an enemy of the United States, why is our airbase here? Have there been calls to remove the airbase?

Speaker 2 Well, there are like some voices

Speaker 2 who are unfortunately very much misinformed that

Speaker 2 this is very critical for the U.S., for the U.S. security to be here in this region.

Speaker 2 And, you know, actually the base itself, when it's moved in the first place, it was moved after September 11th to Doha. And it was a very risky decision for any country to take it.
And we took it.

Speaker 2 We took it because of the friendship that we have with the U.S., because of the partnership that we are committing ourselves together with the U.S.

Speaker 2 And it

Speaker 2 turned out to be like the most important U.S. base outside the United States.
And basically it served the security of the United States, but also it served the stability stability of this region.

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Speaker 3 but was attacked in you some U.S. media for his connection.
He had done business in your country. And he was attacked as a tool of your government.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, sometimes when you read the reports about Qatar or Qatar, like you feel that this is a superpower that controls, you know, everyone and everyone is a tool in the hand of Qatar.

Speaker 2 Look, this is all a joke.

Speaker 2 Steve is a respected businessman. He has done business.
We didn't do anything wrong with him. We have done business.

Speaker 2 I've known him for a long time, I attended his son's wedding, I have a personal relationship, and all this happened before even the election.

Speaker 2 You know, before the election taking place, this was, I think, last February, just months before the election.

Speaker 2 And this friendship and relationship, it means that there is a trust between two people.

Speaker 2 And this trust will, of course, matters for, you know, the working relationship that we have and partnership that US and Qatar has and it benefited the deal at the end of the day the man traveled all the way he stayed here he spent a few days in Doha he participated with us in the negotiation he pushed when it was required he did a great job we

Speaker 2 as you know as partners we achieved the deal at the end of the day the deal wouldn't be achieved without you know

Speaker 2 with Qatar single-handedly or with the United States single-handedly. He needs all of us, all of us are one team and

Speaker 2 work together. Now,

Speaker 2 people are attacking him

Speaker 2 for his relation with Qatar and being a tool on Qatar.

Speaker 2 If you go back and trace back those people who are not interested in having a deal, not interested in having

Speaker 2 they put their political interests

Speaker 2 ahead of the interests of even the hostages themselves.

Speaker 2 How many families

Speaker 2 in Israel celebrated the return of their loved ones?

Speaker 2 I'm not going to talk about Ghazna.

Speaker 2 Hundreds of thousands of people

Speaker 2 have been fed after

Speaker 2 a very long war.

Speaker 2 But just you know, if you look at this and look at the ones who attacked someone like Steve Whitco,

Speaker 2 who achieved and succeeded reaching this deal because of his relation with Qatar,

Speaker 2 is to make sure that the next time

Speaker 2 he calculates his steps. But Steve is a great man, straight shooter.

Speaker 2 Doesn't matter for him as it doesn't matter for us.

Speaker 2 We are friends. Yes, this is something I feel proud of.

Speaker 2 That I have many friends in the United States. And those friends might become,

Speaker 2 you know, in certain positions,

Speaker 2 whether in this administration or in the future administration.

Speaker 2 It doesn't mean that, you know, those friends will be like

Speaker 2 a tool in our hand and our other hand. And basically,

Speaker 2 the people who are using this, they just, you know,

Speaker 2 the problem that they cannot take it that

Speaker 2 a small country can get the results.

Speaker 2 They always have to think about an external factor that bringing them these results. And when they look at it as a small country and

Speaker 2 with this amount of resources, the first thing that will come to their mind, oh, they are bribing everyone.

Speaker 2 I'm a country like any other country.

Speaker 2 I'm operating like any other country. I protect my people's interests.
I protect my regional interest. I protect my friends.
And that's what will always continue the same way.

Speaker 3 So Trump gets elected in November, inaugurated in January, and immediately there's a ceasefire, almost immediately, with Steve Witcock

Speaker 3 leading the negotiations with your help.

Speaker 3 But that's coming after years

Speaker 3 of bloodshed,

Speaker 3 utterly destabilizing this part of the world, the world itself. Where was the Biden administration during all of that?

Speaker 2 Look,

Speaker 2 Tucker,

Speaker 2 what's really making me feel sad is that the agreement that we have achieved on the 15th of January this year

Speaker 2 is almost 95%

Speaker 2 the one, the framework that's being agreed in December and the agreement that's been agreed in March

Speaker 2 24.

Speaker 2 And it took all these months

Speaker 2 in order to

Speaker 2 put it in motion.

Speaker 2 With the previous administration, we were working very closely.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 the director of CIA is someone that I worked with, I respect a lot, and we did

Speaker 2 a lot of work together.

Speaker 2 The partnership was

Speaker 2 honestly

Speaker 2 an exemplary. but

Speaker 2 at the end of the day

Speaker 2 I think it's the calculations of

Speaker 2 of one party over the other

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 why would I do it now let me wait

Speaker 2 and then President Trump of course

Speaker 2 they know there is no like there is no deal happening before the inauguration as he announced. It might have a consequence.

Speaker 2 And I believe

Speaker 2 that played a big role in this.

Speaker 3 But the fact is, they couldn't get a deal done, and he did.

Speaker 2 I think this is, look, also the way that Steve has managed

Speaker 2 to represent President Trump was also a very effective way.

Speaker 3 One of the criticisms of your country is that you're too close to Iran.

Speaker 3 And I should say you're very physically close to Iran.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we are physically close to Iran. How close?

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 2 around 120 miles away.

Speaker 3 Right across the water. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's just, you know,

Speaker 2 you can have a boat ride in 90 minutes, you are there.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 how would you describe your relationship with Iran? And why do you think you're being criticized for it?

Speaker 2 Look, it's,

Speaker 2 you know, Iran has a lot of problems with the West. We understand that, we acknowledge that.
They have problems with the region, with countries in the region, yes.

Speaker 2 At the end of the day,

Speaker 2 Iran is our next door neighbor.

Speaker 2 And we have to maintain a good relation with all our neighbors.

Speaker 2 We have a lot of things

Speaker 2 in common when it comes to the gas field, the largest gas field in the world. It's a partnership between us and Iran.

Speaker 2 It's half of the two-thirds of it in the Qatari territory, and one-third is in the Iranian territory.

Speaker 3 This is in the Gulf, this is under sea.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is the one in in the Gulf Sea.

Speaker 2 You have

Speaker 2 I have to coordinate on environmental issues, like for example the water contaminations.

Speaker 2 I have to coordinate on security issues, like smuggling.

Speaker 2 I have to have this relationship, this working relationship with Iran.

Speaker 2 But also, when you think about it from a bigger perspective, it's for the interest of the region to have a better relation for everyone in the region with Iran.

Speaker 2 And you have seen that there is a huge progress in the relationship with Iran and the GCC between Iran and the GCC in the last few years. And basically,

Speaker 2 even the disagreement that we had on certain policies, for example, we worked against each other in Syria for 14 years.

Speaker 3 Against Iran.

Speaker 2 Against Iran, yeah.

Speaker 3 Right, which was backing Hezbollah and the European.

Speaker 2 And the same thing in Lebanon. And

Speaker 2 those differences are

Speaker 2 put aside when it comes to the bilateral.

Speaker 2 We made the bilateral as a relationship of necessity that we need to

Speaker 2 have this

Speaker 2 engagement together all the time. Those disagreements, we talk about them, we try to understand each other's concern and we try to find a common ground.

Speaker 2 And basically, that's what we expect from other countries to do

Speaker 2 when they are

Speaker 2 around neighbors that

Speaker 2 some others have disagreements with. You need to engage.
Now,

Speaker 2 this is criticized in the US that we are close to Iran.

Speaker 2 In terms of what?

Speaker 2 In terms of policies that have controversies with the US. it's not true.
Our policies have been very clear. Our policy is based on principles.

Speaker 2 Our policy has zero enemies. We have to have friends with everyone.
We would like to see peace in our region. We would like to see a peace around the world.

Speaker 2 If we see innocent people under attack, whatever their backgrounds,

Speaker 2 we will always

Speaker 2 help them and will support them. These are the things that our power policy standing for.

Speaker 2 So if they see me that you know uh this is like putting me on a club on the other s they are watching me from thousands miles away. They don't know what's happening in this region.

Speaker 2 They have no knowledge about it.

Speaker 2 This relationship, it's uh

Speaker 2 an important relationship, not for me, for the entire GCC and for the entire GCC stability. Look, Tucker, I think that there is

Speaker 2 a misunderstanding

Speaker 2 or let's say maybe it's more about a legacy issue,

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 the US needs to take care of the whole world problem.

Speaker 2 This shouldn't be the case. Each region needs to address their own problems,

Speaker 2 needs to make sure that this region is stable. The US is the friend and the ally of and partner of all the GCC countries.
So the US expects from us

Speaker 2 to come to them with vision that this is the way we would like to see the region and that's the way we are going to work on the region. And we would like to have also your support in that direction.

Speaker 2 That's, I believe, how the relationship should work between us and the US.

Speaker 2 Not I'm waiting for the US, what's the problem between them and Iran, and then I based my dealing with Iran based on what the US want.

Speaker 2 The US is waiting to listen to me, what I need from Iran, because I am the friend of the U.S., and Iran is my next-door neighbor.

Speaker 2 And basically, I think this misunderstanding, or let's say, the legacy issue, that's what's driving this whole narrative floating here and there.

Speaker 2 I think that,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 one day everything will be resolved diplomatically. If I take a stand against my neighbor

Speaker 2 because of an external issue, very strong stand,

Speaker 2 what I'm going to do if

Speaker 2 those two adversaries come together.

Speaker 3 So I think it's the policy of your government that you oppose Iran getting nuclear weapons. Certainly your neighbors

Speaker 3 are on the record against it.

Speaker 3 How close do you think Iran is to getting a nuclear weapon, to building one? Well, look,

Speaker 3 actually,

Speaker 2 a nuclear weapon is bad for the region, for any country, whether it's Iran or any other country.

Speaker 2 But also, like when it comes to developing a nuclear program, there are concerns, of course, whenever any nuclear program is developed around your region.

Speaker 2 And those concerns can be not only military concerns, but also security and safety concerns.

Speaker 2 As I mentioned to you,

Speaker 2 if the water is contaminated, the nuclear

Speaker 2 facilities of Iran are on the other side of the coast. It's closer to Doha than Bahran itself.

Speaker 2 So the risks and the threats is affecting me, my country, affecting other countries in the GCC more even so there's a nuclear site directly across from you. Yeah.
And that's basically

Speaker 2 you know that's why it's putting the entire region in a lot of risk if there is no clear standards

Speaker 2 for managing those nuclear facilities and those clear standards ensuring that this is a nuclear power plant that will be used for peaceful use. use.
Now,

Speaker 2 who's right and who's wrong? This is not for me to judge.

Speaker 3 Yet,

Speaker 2 what we would like to see, we would like to see

Speaker 2 a nuclear program that have

Speaker 2 complying with the international standard.

Speaker 2 We are speaking with the Iranians all the time that we need to work together, we need to work with the IAEA in order to ensure that those standards are followed. There are a lot of news and headlines.

Speaker 2 We see that Iran is close to a nuclear weapon. This is nothing we have ever heard, we have ever seen, I mean or experienced.
Even our engagement with

Speaker 2 the leaders there, even with the Supreme Leader,

Speaker 2 he said very clearly that he has issued a fatwa or a declaration that Iran will never go for a nuclear bomb. And basically

Speaker 2 this has also its moral status within the country.

Speaker 2 So I hope that we can reach to a solution, a diplomatic solution, where

Speaker 2 there is prosperity for the region, sanctions are lifted, nuclear program is peaceful, and assurances for the entire region. And this will be, I think,

Speaker 2 a booster for the region development and prosperity.

Speaker 3 So there's a great deal of pressure in Washington, on the White House, and on the Congress to participate in or sign off on

Speaker 3 an attack, an aerial bombardment of the Iran nuclear sites, however many there actually are,

Speaker 3 one of which, as you said, is directly across from you. So you think about this a lot.

Speaker 3 What would be the consequences if that happens? And that's not theoretical, as you know, that could happen soon. What would happen next?

Speaker 2 Well, I think it will just

Speaker 2 be a start of a war that will spread all over the region. And basically do we expect from any country to get attacked and to stay silent? There will be a reaction.

Speaker 2 Those reactions and retaliations, where is going to be?

Speaker 2 Are they going to reach thousands of miles away? They are going to be in the region.

Speaker 2 And basically every country in the region are concerned from such a step because it will affect our security, number one. But also for a country like the US,

Speaker 2 it will affect their security as well. They have

Speaker 2 big stake in that region,

Speaker 2 whether it's in military bases, whether it's an energy facilities in that region,

Speaker 2 economic interest,

Speaker 2 forget about everything, educational facilities.

Speaker 2 So all those

Speaker 2 interests will be affected if something, God forbid, erupts

Speaker 2 in that region.

Speaker 3 Look,

Speaker 2 there is no way

Speaker 2 that Qatar

Speaker 2 would

Speaker 2 support any kind of military step

Speaker 2 in that region.

Speaker 2 And we will not give up until we see a diplomatic solution between the U.S. and Iran.
This needs to reach an agreement.

Speaker 3 May I ask, just going back a second,

Speaker 3 you've said that there's the Iranian nuclear facility directly across the water from you.

Speaker 3 If that were blown up and nuclear material wound up in the water, since it's right on the water, what would happen to the water?

Speaker 2 This will be basically entirely contaminated. We have run this exercise of risk in the country.

Speaker 2 A few years ago, before we bought we before we built our reservoirs, we had the water that we use for our people is from desalination. And we don't have rivers, we don't have water reserves.

Speaker 2 And basically, the country would run out of water in three days.

Speaker 3 The whole country? The whole country.

Speaker 2 Now, after the reservoirs, we increase that capacity and we keep increasing it.

Speaker 2 But this is not only applied for Qatar.

Speaker 2 This is applied for Qatar, this is applied for Kuwait, this is applied for the UAE.

Speaker 2 It's all of us.

Speaker 2 that part.

Speaker 3 So if that nuclear site gets blown up and nuclear material winds up in the water, none of those countries have water?

Speaker 2 No water, no

Speaker 2 fish, nothing. Like it has no life.

Speaker 3 Oh, so that would be a history-changing environmental catastrophe.

Speaker 2 It is an environmental catastrophe. That's why I'm you know, that's why I'm telling you that's the position of Qatar in the map

Speaker 2 and the region with Iran,

Speaker 2 a lot of people, they don't even understand it. I remember once I went to

Speaker 2 visit the U.S. Congress and I was meeting with one U.S.
senator

Speaker 2 and we were talking, discussing about Iran.

Speaker 2 He said basically you don't have

Speaker 2 you don't have to deal with them. And I drew for him a map

Speaker 2 on his desk. For the first time, he realized that

Speaker 2 these two countries are that close to each other.

Speaker 2 So there are a lot who doesn't see this region as close

Speaker 2 to Iran and it's too intertwined.

Speaker 3 So they don't have maps in the Senate?

Speaker 2 No, they do have maps, but probably they don't know Swat Upar.

Speaker 2 We are very small

Speaker 3 do you think um i mean to the extent you can say i should say you're the prime minister but you're also the foreign minister so you

Speaker 3 this is what you do all day every day um but to the extent you can say do you think that the iranian government is willing to de-escalate through negotiation open up its nuclear sites to international inspection of some kind, reassure the world they're not two weeks away from getting a bomb, as we read practically every day on the internet, whether it's true or not.

Speaker 3 I mean, do you think that's achievable?

Speaker 2 Well, I think it is achievable. And actually, all the engagement that we had with Iranian officials,

Speaker 2 as I mentioned to you,

Speaker 2 we were just there a few days ago, actually, and engaging with the President, engaging with the Supreme Leader, the Foreign Minister over there, in order to find a diplomatic solution. And basically,

Speaker 2 they are willing to engage, they are willing to

Speaker 2 get to a level that creates comforts for everybody.

Speaker 2 And most importantly, they are focused on mending their relationship with the region, and

Speaker 2 that's something in itself.

Speaker 2 It can create a lot of progress on every front with Iran. So I believe there is an opportunity.
Now

Speaker 2 we you know, we come back to the question of the chicken and egg and the egg, which come first.

Speaker 2 I believe

Speaker 2 we should forget about these questions and get the parties together,

Speaker 2 start to understand each other concerns. And basically if everything is complying with the international standards, I don't see any reason why we don't have a deal.

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Speaker 3 There's talk in the United States of increasing sanctions on Iran.

Speaker 3 I didn't know that was possible, but Iran has been under some form of sanctions for almost 50 years,

Speaker 3 46 years, I think.

Speaker 3 Have they achieved their intended goal?

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 bigger picture, have you ever seen sanctions against anybody achieve their intended goal?

Speaker 2 Look,

Speaker 2 this issue is very controversial. First, as a principle for my country, for the state of Qatar, we see unilateral sanctions are uneffective.

Speaker 2 And it's punishment of punishing the people, not punishing a country or regime. That's number one.

Speaker 3 They still have the revolutionary government from 1979 in power, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, if this is, if it has, if it would lead to a result, we wouldn't be in that situation until now.

Speaker 3 Kenel Castro died in Havana. Yeah, after 50 years of U.S.

Speaker 2 sanctions. So just, you know, going back, sanctions, what does it create? Pressures the people, starves them, it creates black markets, it creates a whole illegal system.

Speaker 2 If the sanctions are coming out of the US, it actually prevents all the US interests or companies to have business and lose the opportunities for other countries.

Speaker 2 So I don't see a world where the sanctions work.

Speaker 2 Honestly,

Speaker 2 for us, as I told you, it's a core principle in our foreign policy. We refuse,

Speaker 2 we don't support sanctions at all.

Speaker 2 And sanctioning countries, I'm talking about. And sanctioning countries is just

Speaker 2 making the situation much worse.

Speaker 3 Well, can I just ask you? So, three of the biggest oil-producing countries in the world-Venezuela, Russia, Iran-have been under, I mean, the most extensive sanctions in history. Yes,

Speaker 3 they're still selling oil, though. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 Like a lot of oil.

Speaker 2 Yeah, much.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it's

Speaker 2 mainly it's sold in different means, in different currencies.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 look, Takar, I recall when

Speaker 2 the Russian sanction came out at the

Speaker 2 beginning of the war between Russia and Ukraine. I had an interview in one of the US media channels, and I said very clearly that

Speaker 2 sanctions will only create a parallel marketplace

Speaker 2 for other currencies. So

Speaker 2 the dollar-dominated international currency, you will start to see people moving, countries moving away from that

Speaker 2 by the time.

Speaker 2 So it won't benefit. It won't benefit,

Speaker 2 it won't get you what you want. It's the contrary.
That's basically what's been, you know,

Speaker 2 at the end, like any country like Venezuela, for example, or Iran, they need to survive, they need to feed their people, they need to get, you know, at least the basic requirements that they want.

Speaker 2 They will find ways to sell their oils. They will find ways to use other currencies.
They will find markets who will accept them

Speaker 2 and, you know, selling them and buying from them.

Speaker 2 And that's basically you created like a parallel market.

Speaker 2 And that's what I've been saying.

Speaker 3 So you cut out U.S. countries, you weaken the U.S.

Speaker 3 dollar, you make the country more repressive, inevitably, but you don't dislodge the leadership, whether it's Putin, Chavez Maduro, the Aetollas in Iran, Fidel Castro,

Speaker 3 and you don't prevent them from selling their oil in international markets. So why exactly would you levy sanctions?

Speaker 2 Honestly, look, from at least

Speaker 2 my humble experience looking at all those sanctioned countries, in the last, let's say, you know, I always like to talk about my tenor and diplomacy, which is 10 years.

Speaker 2 In the last 10 years, I've seen a lot of sanctions floating around on a lot of countries.

Speaker 2 None of these sanctions has achieved the results that's intended for.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think that's true. That's not an ideological point.

Speaker 3 That's like factually true, right?

Speaker 2 It is factually true, yeah.

Speaker 3 So why does the

Speaker 2 just, you know, if you go and name a single country that

Speaker 2 has a regime change.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Or an entire, like, behavior change to the good

Speaker 2 because of sanction, you will not find any.

Speaker 3 Okay, so

Speaker 3 again, I don't think what you're saying should be controversial because it's provable.

Speaker 3 Go to Wikipedia. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So why... I mean, just, I think this morning I was reading, we're going to sanction this person more.

Speaker 3 There's got to be some reason that the US Congress and various administrations have continued to want to do this, even though there's absolute proof that it doesn't work.

Speaker 3 What would be the reason to do it?

Speaker 2 Well, look, as I told you,

Speaker 2 when

Speaker 2 you know, some. I don't know, honestly, we can ask this question more for U.S.

Speaker 2 legislators and policymakers, but

Speaker 2 I think from my perspective, this is when you have

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 if you don't talk to the other party,

Speaker 2 if you don't want to use military, which is something that we never advise for,

Speaker 2 the only tool will remain in your hand is sanction to show power and to show leverage, which some people they think that this is leverage and power, which is not.

Speaker 3 Well, it doesn't seem to be. No, power is measurable, right? Actually, look,

Speaker 2 as, you know,

Speaker 2 just, you know, if you go through every, like, every sanctioned countries,

Speaker 2 it never achieved the objective. That's what I want to say here.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I think that's

Speaker 3 true.

Speaker 3 How does the Ukraine war end, do you think?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 look, you know,

Speaker 2 there is a lesson that history taught us.

Speaker 2 That there is no war started

Speaker 2 with one of the parties wants the war. Always two parties they don't want the war and they end up in a war.

Speaker 2 And there is no war ended

Speaker 2 without a negotiation around the negotiation table to find a peaceful solution

Speaker 2 despite how long it took.

Speaker 2 So this war will end at the end of the day

Speaker 2 around the negotiations. Now,

Speaker 2 if you look at the recent efforts that that President Trump is doing and

Speaker 2 together with the Kingdom of Saudi, I believe this is the right direction, the right path forward. Because,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 we were like, when the war started as a state of Qatar, we always like, you know,

Speaker 2 express

Speaker 2 our willingness to help, to support, if there is any chance for mediation.

Speaker 2 We looked at it, it's something far away, it's in Europe. Yet, we have some experience in mediation, which is a track record that we have built throughout the year.

Speaker 2 And we saw that this conflict is too complicated.

Speaker 2 We tried to break it down to smaller mediation efforts, and we were working on the children file, for example, Russian and Ukrainian children, bringing them back to their families.

Speaker 2 We were working on the energy file, but unfortunately,

Speaker 2 it didn't work out

Speaker 2 in order to build a foundation for

Speaker 2 someone like President Trump to come and to broker a peace deal. I believe it is the moment.
I believe that the steps that's being taken are the right steps.

Speaker 2 And basically the way it ends, it should be the way that

Speaker 2 it addresses both countries' concerns. I think that

Speaker 2 the Ukrainians have legitimate concerns that they need to address, and the Russians have legitimate concerns that the Ukrainians need to address. And I believe this will never

Speaker 2 reach a solution unless there is some, you know,

Speaker 2 direct talks between them

Speaker 2 and also

Speaker 2 some

Speaker 2 demonstration of support from the partners of both Ukraine and Russia that they need to put an end for this and they need to understand each other's concern and they need to take them into consideration.

Speaker 2 And the partners' role is to give them the assurances and the comfort that those considerations will be taken seriously.

Speaker 3 I hate to say it, but I think Russia's partners are probably willing to express support for a settlement. I don't know if Ukrainians are, and that would be Europe, Great Britain, and Western Europe.

Speaker 3 And I mean, you just saw the Prime Minister of Britain say the other day, we're going to send British troops to Ukraine.

Speaker 2 Well, it's, you know, at the end of the day, as I told you,

Speaker 2 it's an issue between Russia and Ukraine, and

Speaker 2 they need to address it themselves. They need to get the assurances that

Speaker 2 both countries need.

Speaker 2 I think that

Speaker 2 even within the EU, not everyone is sharing the same opinion, I believe. But at the end of the day,

Speaker 2 they will come down to a conclusion that this issue needs to be settled peacefully and this issue needs to take into consideration everyone's concern.

Speaker 3 You

Speaker 3 participated in a successful ceasefire

Speaker 3 between Israel and Gaza and who knows if that lasts. I mean I don't know when this is going to air so I don't even want to speculate.

Speaker 3 But clearly it's been awful for everybody.

Speaker 3 Certainly been awful for Gaza. It's been awful for its neighbors.
I think it's been really bad for Israel. I mean it's just kind of hard to see an upside.

Speaker 3 So how how would you, if you were in charge, fix

Speaker 3 this, you know, 80-year-old conflict for good?

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 2 going back to the basics. You know,

Speaker 2 if you look at

Speaker 2 the history since Madrid Declaration

Speaker 2 in the 90s, where

Speaker 2 Israel needed to be integrated in the

Speaker 2 economic normalization should happen between the countries in the region, and

Speaker 2 a political horizon for the Palestinians to establish their own state on the borders of 1967, which is according to the Security Council resolutions.

Speaker 2 Since that time, until today,

Speaker 2 We didn't see anything, but the situation is going backward.

Speaker 2 More settlements, more violence,

Speaker 3 more

Speaker 2 policies which are destructive for the Palestinians, unfortunately.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 basically,

Speaker 2 we are expecting from the Palestinians

Speaker 2 just to obey, to stay quiet, and not, you know, there will not never be anything instigated.

Speaker 2 This is normal, you know, when

Speaker 2 you have you know, a situation that lasting that long

Speaker 2 to have this kind of turbulence all the time. And I'm not talking here about the 7th of October, I'm talking about the entire period.

Speaker 2 How many wars we had.

Speaker 2 We had a lot of them. A lot of people, we hear them saying that we need to try

Speaker 2 something new. We need to try things that we are not even, you know, thinking about.

Speaker 2 Yes, we agree. The two-state solution.
We've been talking about, we never tried it.

Speaker 2 Have we ever tried it and didn't work?

Speaker 2 Does this country that's

Speaker 2 established next to Israel will be a threat for Israel?

Speaker 2 It's a threat as long as it's not a country.

Speaker 2 And we said that we are willing to provide security guarantees for Israel.

Speaker 3 We,

Speaker 2 All of us will be integrated together as one region and demilitarized Palestinian state even.

Speaker 2 So it's not even like, you know, a fully independent one.

Speaker 3 Not even a real country, it's demilitarized.

Speaker 2 So it's basically like everything you are offering. And in exchange,

Speaker 2 we were always like, you know,

Speaker 2 either because of their political situation in Israel, like we were always faced by rejections. There were just few leaders in Israel who had the courage to come out and to say that this is

Speaker 2 the only solution. This is the only way forward.
But in the last few years, we didn't see any of them.

Speaker 3 Do you think Donald Trump can force a Palestinian state?

Speaker 2 I think, you know, look, President Trump, he's a great dealmaker. He's a great businessman.
He's very successful. He

Speaker 2 brokered many deals around the world during the first administration. And I believe if

Speaker 2 we will have peace one day, this is the best opportunity for us with someone like President Trump.

Speaker 3 Is Qatar at net zero? I know there was some enthusiasm about making sure you got to net zero.

Speaker 2 Well, if you see the largest exporter of LNG at net zero, I think there is something happening wrong.

Speaker 3 Does that mean you're dead if you're a net zero?

Speaker 2 We are, look,

Speaker 2 we are committed. First of all, that, you know,

Speaker 3 wait, aren't you supposed to pretend you're getting to net zero?

Speaker 2 Look,

Speaker 2 I'm not, you know, going to pretend anything that I'm not going to do, but

Speaker 2 the gas has proven that it is the most important reliable baseload source of energy for the next century, maybe.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 and the gas is much cleaner than a lot of other energy resources.

Speaker 2 And benefiting the environment, benefiting a lot of countries, switching from coal to gas. And that's what we are producing.
That's what we are focusing on.

Speaker 2 Now countries who were just rushing to get to net zero and trying to impose some

Speaker 2 green policies that are not realistic, they are attracting from those policies now.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You see them like, you know,

Speaker 2 some of them they are going back to coal.

Speaker 3 Well, they're also on the verge of revolution in some cases because they destroyed the lives of their people.

Speaker 2 So it's basically also it's not fair when

Speaker 2 you

Speaker 2 try to impose these kind of regulations in countries that they have their resources not not being developed, not being exploited. and they have no electricity even, like Africa, for example.

Speaker 2 And you want to make sure that no, everything there is green, everything is to reach net zero, and you are not allowed to come and to exploit your energy. But they don't have electricity.

Speaker 2 So the whole concept, I think it's right now there is a lot of debate, there is a lot of

Speaker 2 argument about it, and

Speaker 2 I'm not sure if the world will be able to achieve it.

Speaker 2 Look, we understand the danger of the climate, we understand the danger of the climate change, but it doesn't mean that we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Speaker 2 We need to think about it wisely, we need to think about it gradually. And look, Tucker Warnsley,

Speaker 2 maybe

Speaker 2 I told you

Speaker 2 in a separate meeting that, you know,

Speaker 2 the pyramid of the needs of the people,

Speaker 2 first security,

Speaker 2 then food and water, then health,

Speaker 3 energy, education,

Speaker 2 education, strong economy, and then climate change and the environment. So we are living in a region that

Speaker 2 barely handling the three like the three layers of foundation

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 2 people like coming and you know trying to impose on us the tip of that, we need to make sure that our neighbours, our surroundings are secured, We need to ensure that they are fed.

Speaker 2 We need to ensure that they have enough health care. We need to ensure that they have a good education.
We need to make sure that they have energy, access to energy in the first place.

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Speaker 3 Cop takes his license registration, goes back to the patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window, and sees a tin of ALP on the dashboard, pauses, stunned, says to my friend, you use ALP?

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Speaker 3 In an age to 350 million people are guessing there are about 350 million Alp stories. Email us yours.

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Speaker 3 It does seem like things have changed just in the past six months, partly because of the electricity needs of AI, of EVs, all the stuff baked in the cake, the clear limits of renewables, like they can't actually run a modern society.

Speaker 3 That's all obvious now.

Speaker 3 And so a lot of investment funds and politicians have sort of pulled back from the net zero theology. But what's amazing to me is that it seems like some of them really believed it.

Speaker 3 I mean, in the case of Qatar,

Speaker 3 you're opening up a new gas field, and I think some, like even energy people, laughed at you and said that there's kind of no future for gas. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, look.

Speaker 3 Why did they say that?

Speaker 2 This actually happened to us twice.

Speaker 2 Once when we started the gas exploitation, it wasn't yet the future of the energy. At that time, this was back in the early 90s.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 we took the risk. Qatar was in totally different economic situation at that time.
We took a great risk.

Speaker 3 We

Speaker 2 put a lot of pressure on the country and the needs of the country. And apparently,

Speaker 2 the LNG picked up and became one of the main sources. Then

Speaker 2 at the peak of the net zero and the green agenda, we announced the expansion of our production, which was back in 2018. And we decided to go on to invest.

Speaker 2 And at that time,

Speaker 2 you can read reports from

Speaker 2 the IMF, for example, that

Speaker 2 that a lot of countries will end up with a lot of oil and gas,

Speaker 2 but with no money, because they will have no countries to sell the gas to or they will have no

Speaker 2 markets to sell their oil to.

Speaker 2 And this was just in 2018 and like everyone was panicked.

Speaker 2 In the same year, we have announced that we are going to expand our gas field production and we are hoping to double it by 2030.

Speaker 2 So from seventy seven million cubic ton, which was peaked in 2011 and continued being sustained until today,

Speaker 2 by twenty thirty we will reach one 144.

Speaker 2 And that's basically will be the biggest.

Speaker 3 So there was a projection in 2018 that no one would want to buy Europe

Speaker 2 after 2050.

Speaker 3 Who made that? I mean, that's like...

Speaker 2 That's the IMF report, actually. It's not a projection for Qadr, but it was for the entire GCC.

Speaker 2 And basically.

Speaker 3 But that's so far out of whack with observable reality. Like, that's insane, obviously.

Speaker 2 It's not, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, we had the debate about this within our government at that time

Speaker 2 and we didn't we didn't believe it. We we have seen that the requirement for the energy will just increase.
We have we were watching the revolution in a lot of technologies and we we we have seen that

Speaker 2 whether it's the green hydrogen, the blue hydrogen

Speaker 2 the renewables, all of them they cannot never be cost effective

Speaker 2 in in the next 10, 15 years, and maybe more.

Speaker 2 And they will not be enough. The baseload, you will always need an energy mix, and the baseload of this mix will be the LNG will remain always the gas.

Speaker 3 So that was obvious to just interested non-experts like me or just people who read about it like on the side.

Speaker 3 But the IMF researchers and

Speaker 3 energy analysts who came up with this projection, do you think they really believed it?

Speaker 2 Well, I don't know, honestly. I mean, we were like,

Speaker 2 at the beginning when we have seen these reports,

Speaker 2 we were just questioning why they are doing that. But it was like part of the global

Speaker 2 sustainability agenda. And probably this is an idea that all international organizations agreed to promote.
And basically, it's the same thing, like, you know.

Speaker 2 When it comes to those organizations, you always see a common agenda item that everyone is advocating to toward the same direction.

Speaker 3 Look, so they're lying to you in order to keep you from

Speaker 2 against the green and the climate change. It's something that all of us need for our survival, for our planet, yes.

Speaker 2 But also, we need to be realistic in our approach. We need to make sure that

Speaker 2 this progress is not harming us, it's benefiting us. It's not because

Speaker 2 we want to make sure that the planet lasts

Speaker 2 forever,

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 our people doesn't last forever. I mean, it's basically,

Speaker 2 it's really a miscalculation. Now, another example I want to give you, like, for example, in our partnership with the US in the gas area,

Speaker 2 we have

Speaker 2 during the time before like the fracking and

Speaker 2 shell gas in the US, we were supplying the US with LG

Speaker 2 at a certain point of time. And we built this, what's so-called, the Golden Pass in Texas in order to be a receiving terminal for the gas.

Speaker 2 During President Trump's time and the first administration, we signed with him, we signed during his administration to make it as a sending terminal. So, all the gas, the U.S.
gas,

Speaker 2 will be exported. through that terminal, which is a partnership between Qatar Energy and ExxonMobil.

Speaker 3 To explain, you take natural gas out of the ground, it's often found with oil, but then you have to basically freeze it and make it

Speaker 3 convert it to a liquid state in order to ship it across the ocean. Yes.

Speaker 3 So LNG is liquefied natural gas.

Speaker 2 That's what you're talking about. Liquefied natural gas, yes.
And then you have

Speaker 2 also beside that, during the same

Speaker 2 meeting when

Speaker 2 during the previous administration with President Trump, the first one, we have signed the largest single largest petrochemical plant in the world.

Speaker 2 It's called the Golden Triangle, which hopefully will be online very soon. And that's what will provide the basic feedstock for all the industries in the United States,

Speaker 2 which is the polymers. And this is also a partnership between Qatar Energy and Gas companies.

Speaker 3 I mean, looking back, I think we can be a little bit more

Speaker 3 critical. and try to understand what the green agenda was or net zero was.

Speaker 3 But no one ever explained without natural gas how are you going to get fertilizer and plastic did anyone ever explain that to you no they have no answers even i mean look even

Speaker 2 people with

Speaker 2 like who are adopting uh the green agenda when they are talking about electricity for example generating electricity from green energy green resources those electricity will need batteries batteries will need lithiums for the AVs.

Speaker 2 This lithium, when you mine those lithium, what is the effect on the environment?

Speaker 3 Oh, I know.

Speaker 2 And if you calculate it, it's much worse for the planet and for the land than the oil and the gas combined, and maybe from the coal as well. So

Speaker 2 it wasn't really well thought of.

Speaker 2 It was something that I believe

Speaker 2 was, you know, taken to a direction,

Speaker 2 doesn't serve the interest of the entire world.

Speaker 3 Does it make you nervous that the smartest, most powerful people in the world could jump to conclusions they didn't think through without evidence, that they could just say something was true without knowing it was true and thinking through the consequences?

Speaker 3 I mean, it seems like a kind of mass insanity that took over the world.

Speaker 2 It keeps us up all night.

Speaker 3 Me too. Mr.
Prime Minister, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 Thank you very much, Dr. Appreciate it.
Thank you.

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