Sean Davis: Trump Shooting Update, & the Real Reason Congress Refuses to Investigate

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Shop Yokohama Tires at TireRack.com. So almost exactly five months ago, the Republican presidential candidate shot in the face on camera.
The man who apparently did it is killed. The world stops.
History changes. But the one thing that doesn't happen is any accounting of what that was.
Who was this guy? How did this happen? And even now, on the cusp of Trump's inauguration, it's disappeared. I haven't heard anybody ask those questions.
I've heard some dark mutterings. And so you're one of the people who I think was on the story at the very beginning in a rational but insistent way.

And so I thought it'd be worth asking, like, what was that?

Yeah, I'm not sure I've ever seen an incident of that magnitude disappear from the news so quickly.

Yes.

We got, what, maybe a week of, like, true kind of flood-the-zone coverage?

Yes.

And then it was gone. Welcome to the Tucker Carlson show.
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Here's the episode. That to me is the weirdest thing about it.
But it was a shooting. It was an assassination attempt.
And it raised like the most pressing possible questions about a lot of different things. And, you know, I understand the news media didn't want to give Trump any advantage, didn't want to run the picture of him triumphant.

I get it.

But you would think that every elected official,

every American would want to know,

how was this allowed to happen?

It was allowed to happen, but by whom and why and how?

And I don't hear anybody, including Republicans,

asking those questions.

So like, what is this?

Yeah, so I kind of look at it as three big questions. Who is the shooter? Yes.
Everything that kind of puts him together. How did they let it happen? That whole process.
And then what happened to everyone who let it happen? And then within that, like the framework I have trying to figure out, you know, what exactly happened is you can look at it as like option one, just a total snafu across the board. Everyone failed.
Accidents happen. Guy manages to get up there.
It's exactly what it looks like. So that's option one.
And then you've got option two, which is kind of what I would call strategic incompetence. So you have DHS, which runs Secret Service.
And the Secret Service is a soup sandwich from top to bottom. Like, it's a disaster.
Culturally, everything about it. Did you have people who were making that even more difficult, who were deliberately making Trump vulnerable on the off chance that maybe someone would go solve their problems for them.
So that's my number two. My number three kind of scenario is it encompasses all the number two, but you kind of have two different hands of government.
You've got the Secret Service hand, which is totally incompetent, making them completely vulnerable. But unbeknownst to that hand, you have this other hand.
I would call it the Russiagate hoax hand. These people who are just always doing awful, evil things.
The John Brennan hand. Yeah.
Was there somebody there looking for super disturbed, impressionable young men to kind of poke with the stick? Like, you know, Trumpson Butler, you should go check that out out so you have the incompetent hand and then the devious hand so that to me is option three and they weren't working with each other but they were creating the conditions to allow that what happened to happen and then i think the fourth one is the government just killed him it's like those are i kind of look at everything through those lenses and try to figure out, can we disprove this one? What fits here? And like where I am now, I'm like kind of between two and three. I refuse to believe this was just a series of unfortunate accidents and incompetence that's put together.
It's just not. I just don't believe it.
Because I've been alive for the last 10 years watching everything they do. And yet, I don't think there's evidence for the JFK style.
We all know Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it, right? Of course. It's absurd.
So I don't think there's any evidence, or at least I've not seen any, to suggest that was replicated here.

So I think it's somewhere in between deliberate incompetence to make him vulnerable,

and then you had some cell somewhere finding someone to urge to go do it in ways that would make it very hard to trace.

So thank you for starting with your conclusion.

Let's work backward and go through by number the three questions

that you raised at the outset.

Who was Crooks,

Thomas Crooks,

the shooter?

Yeah, we still don't know.

Like, it's wild.

This kid comes out of nowhere,

manages to get on the roof,

shoots President Trump,

fires eight shots before anyone,

even like remotely,

tries to bother him. He's able to fly a drone there for like 10 or 20 minutes.
Did recon multiple times throughout the day. Had an operative, operable IEDs in his car.
Had a bomb in his house. And we still know basically nothing about him.
It's crazy. So America First Legal, they sued to get his academic records.
And turns out he was a really good student. Really good student.
I think he got his entire time in high school and college like maybe two C's. I think one was in Spanish and one was in differential equations.
And the rest were mostly A's and some B's here and there so he was like a smart smart kid um one of the congressional committees did a investigation looking into it um and parents really didn't know much about their own son like yeah i think uh either the mom or the dad at the point asked are you gay like you're not dating dating anyone? What's going on? They don't even know what's going on there. We know the FBI has his phone, his devices, his computer.
They know who he was talking to. They know where he went.
They know where he bought stuff. They know what he searched for.
And we don't know anything about that. So there's a Senate report from the Homeland Security Committee that tried to dig into it.
And there are two congressional committees in the House and the Senate that actually did a really good job, given all the constraints they have, figuring stuff out. So they asked the FBI all these questions because the FBI took the lead on it.
Give us all this information. At the time the Senate put out their initial report, the FBI had given them 27 pages total.
How? I mean, it's Congress. They can shut the FBI down.
I don't understand what is going on. Yeah, and you had the other...
Would they not turn that over? Do you know? It's this weird thing that happens. They actually don't have any legal basis to do it.
They'll say things like, well, ongoing investigation that's totally made up. Even when there is an ongoing investigation and not when your suspect is dead, so clearly no one's going to be criminally tried for that because he's dead.
Even that's totally made up. There's nothing in the Constitution that says this agency that Congress created and is funded by Congress can just not give them stuff because reasons.
It's totally made up. So I think a big reason is most people in Congress are totally weak.
They're cowards. That's for sure.
They don't want to get crosswise with the FBI who take a lot of work. So they just kind of like, huh, okay, I guess we won't get it.
Ongoing investigation. Yeah.
The House Committee, for example, they also did a great job. They said that the FBI interviewed over a thousand people in the course of their investigation.
And they produced over a thousand, they're called FD302s, which is how the FBI, it's actually crazy what they're allowed to do. I know.
They don't have to have a transcript or anything

when they interview you.

They just have a piece of paper

that's their recollection of what you said.

And then that becomes gospel.

They don't have to record it.

No.

No.

That's actually how James Comey got

Martha Stewart thrown in prison.

Oh, I know.

Yeah, it's so dirty.

But so they have a thousand interviews,

over a thousand documents.

They gave the House 81.

So it's just mind blowingblowing so we we don't know like anything about this crooks guy beyond i think like maybe a 15 minute press conference that one of the fbi i think might have been the fbi guy out of pittsburgh who runs that office like 15 minutes of him talking in very vague, like 50,000 foot terms about what they knew. Oh, he searched for Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
Do you remember that? Yes. How that came out? And that was meant to make it look like, oh, the guy didn't really have any political motives.
Did he? I mean, what were his motives? Well, I mean, the base motive was he wanted to kill Donald

Trump. Right.
Which everyone

kind of got lost over.

You'd have the talking heads being like, what was his motive?

Well, I think he wanted to shoot Trump in the

face.

Just spitballing here.

But so, you have the

FBI. He's like, well, he searched for Trump

and Biden, so

clearly he didn't have any political views. I'm like, well, how many times did he search for? What was he searching? That's kind of an important thing.
Well, he searched for the DNC and the RNC. Okay, great.
That's utterly worthless information that I can do nothing with. And they're like, and that's it.
So we, I mean, we literally don't know we know nothing about this kid no we don't know who he was talking like here are the things I would want to know all the places he went in like the six months leading up to this not just the week I want to know every place he went I want to know every person he talked to in person I want to know every person he had a phone conversation with texted with telegrammed with signaled with I want to know everything he he talked to in person. I want to know every person he had a phone conversation with, texted with, telegrammed with, signaled with.
I want to know everything he looked for on Google Maps. I want his whole internet search history.
And I want to go through it in real time and just find out what was happening. I assume the FBI has done that.
I know they have the capability to do it. Why has Congress not been not been told anything about it and why we not it's just and so that kind of stuff is why it's impossible for me to look at everything and be like well it's just a series of unfortunate accidents but i mean the core question in any crime is like why was it committed and i mean we're not it sounds like there's no progress whatsoever none none well that itself is like just tells you that the country's in free fall that it's just so corrupt it can't even carry out the basic functions of government trying to figure out why murderers murder right but but like like who is he talking to was he just alone in his own silo doing all this?

Did he do everything on the internet?

I don't believe it because at one point they told us,

oh, he had encrypted text messages,

some of which were overseas,

and they just let that float out there

and then never talked about it again.

Is there any evidence he was in touch

with any specific person or group overseas?

None that I've seen. None.
it's a total black box yeah okay so heritage foundation at one point one of their guys over there's great investigator mike howell um i don't know how he did it um was able to get um like location data on devices that had been

in or near Thomas Crooks' home

in the weeks or months

leading up to it

and then where those had been.

So I think this came out maybe a week after.

Yes.

There was one that had pinged around the FBI.

Yes.

The FBI building in Washington.

In Washington.

Now that could be a ton of different things

because everything's around the FBI.

But I'd like to know more about that. But we haven't been told anything.
So he had IEDs. He sent up a drone.
So in order, what were the IEDs? Do we have any idea? Yeah. So he had two IEDs in his car that they found afterwards.
They were wired. They had detonators in them.
They had primers. They were connected to remote sensors that he had a remote control for on the roof to set off.
Now, what's super weird about it is in the car, the remote transmitters there were off. So even if he had that remote transmitter in his hand, he couldn't have set him off.
So that to me is weird. You go through all this trouble.
You're going to try and kill the president. You've got all these bombs in your car, but then you don't.
I mean, they're technically armed, but there was nothing that he could do to set them off. That's weird.
It is weird. It doesn't make any sense to me.
And he, I should have asked this earlier, no statement of any kind, no manifesto. None.
No description of his own beliefs about anything. Nope.
Of any kind. None.
He liked shooting. Like he seemed to go to a shooting range every now and again.
Clearly he liked shooting. And I, you know, right after the shooting, there were all these, you these you know usual i was a door kicker of some special operations people on tv saying that's an easy shot 130 yards that's just not true that's just that's a lot i mean i shoot a lot he crooks turn a cop a local cop came up a ladder behind him he crooks pointed and correct me if i'm wronged the cop down and then immediately assumed the prone position, got off eight shots and I think it was 130 yards.
I think it was probably 150, but whatever, that's plus or minus. 150, pretty far.
Yeah. And got as close as the president's ear.
So under extreme stress as a 20-year-old with no military training, I mean, luck does play a role in everything, including shooting, but I'm sorry. I have a 100-yard rifle range.
I know what that is. That's like pretty good.
Yeah, it's helpful to know what he had. So he had, I think it was a DPMS AR-15, like pretty vanilla off the shelf.
I had wondered for a long time what his optic was. Was he using iron sights? Because to me, that makes all the difference.
It does. For like a layman between hard and easy.
You take some pipe hitter who's been doing it for 20 years, whatever, he can do what he can do. He only had a red dot on it.
So he had a hollow sun red dot with a 2 MOA red dot, no magnification. I like to think I'm a pretty good shooter i shoot a lot i think that's a tricky shot i totally agree especially under stress yeah and and which is always the key it's like anyone can sit on a sunday afternoon with your kids and like you know on the on the bench with like completely yeah but there's a cop behind you with a gun and you lie down and get off eight shots and one of them is just spot on well and he only missed because trump turned his head i know like when you know the angle like he started out with a target like this that became this like yes it and so he went you know from probably a four to six inch target to like a oneinch target just based on where he was aiming.

My friends are going to make fun of me for saying like it's a hard shot.

I think that's a tricky shot.

No magnification, under duress, on a hot roof.

It is a tricky shot.

I don't get all these people like, I do that.

Okay, show me.

Yeah, if you have like a 18X magnifier on it, you're shooting it paper and you're on a bench and you've got a nice little platform set up that's an easy shot and there's not what happened police officer right behind you coming up to shoot you uh so yeah no i mean but again you know luck does play a role in life for sure in life as backgammon you know luck is luck is a component but um okay so he brings these explosives inside what should be a perimeter he puts it was outside the perimeter so it was in his car. Right.
So I don't think that was within the security perimeter. It's just wherever he parked his car.
But he's got bombs in it. He's got operational bombs in his car.
And he puts a drone up. What do we know about that? So we know that he showed up around the park, I think around 1 o'clock.
So the event was starting six-ish. So they probably

opened the doors at four, let people in.

He was there beforehand, just kind of walking around,

looking at things, casing it.

Comes back at, I think,

345-ish,

351, and

flies a drone for like 20 minutes.

Flies it all around, looks

at everything, gets a bird's eye view. They were able

to recreate the path that he had when they got the drone and the controller, but there were no pictures from that flight. So he's looking at it on his controller, flying it and seeing what it sees, but when they go to the device, there's no images on it.
They can recreate the flight path, but that's it. So he does that for like 20 minutes.
And what's interesting is the whole day. So the secret service didn't send their own drones, but they sent some guy who'd gotten trains like a month or two previous, not on drone mitigation, but on drone detection.
So he brings his little stuff in where he can go and detect a drone. They can use it to figure out where the controller is and where a person is.
Doesn't work all day. He spends like hours on the phone with an 800 number doing tech support.
I don't know. Come on.
100% doing tech support. Turns out he had a bad Ethernet cord.
You can't make that up. He had a bad Ethernet cord.
So he finally gets his working at like 4.15. Literally minutes after Crooks had been done doing his recon with his drone.
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Is it true?

And by the way,

did the drone fly over the podium

and the place where Trump was? I don't know. In the reports that are available, they say that they recreated the flight path and it went all around the area.
Whether it went right over that podium, I don't. I would assume so.
You have 20 minutes. It wasn't a big area.
He gets somehow a range finder onto the site through a Secret Service screen? No, I don't think he took it through the magnetometer. So one of the problems was you have this area that really isn't that big.
It's a farm show. So you've got a horse ring for people doing stuff with livestock.
You've got a big field. You've got grandstands here and there.
You've got a bunch of barns, but it's not a big area. And you would think they would have made the whole thing the security perimeter, like a full circle all the way around.
You're not getting in without getting checked for anything. But they ended up carving out this area, which was the American Glass Research, the AGR building, the sprawling, call it like a five building complex.
And it was from one of those roofs that he shot Trump from. And they decided, you know, we're going to put that outside of our security perimeter.
So you can get to that area without having been screened or anything. No magnetometers, no pat downs.
And that's like 130, 150 yards from the president um i think he may have been around that area with the rangefinder he may have gotten in but they they ask one of the secret service agents he's like well rangefinder is not a prohibited item it's suspicious it makes you wonder why would you have a rangefinder's not golfing. Okay, he's not like trying to figure out

did I use the nine iron or like my

pitching wedge.

Like you know why someone has a range

finder. It's for shooting.
Yeah.

And by the way, there's a

difference between golf range finders

and ballistic range finders. Of course.

It's a big difference. Yeah.
Like you get a

nice ballistic range finder and it'll

like, it'll tell you not

just like your horizontal distance,

it'll give you your actual shooting distance compensating for your angle of view and all that. Like that's not like oh it's a hundred it's a hundred and eight yards.
Plus it's camo. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
It looks like. So they see that and the local cops flag him as suspicious.
So the local cops start kind of getting on

their radios and saying, hey, there's

a dude with a rangefinder.

Like, everyone be on the lookout for it.

Secret Service

doesn't really hear this because all the counter snipers,

their

lead counter sniper, who is the most

junior person on the team, which I find

fascinating. The counter snipers hadn't

been used, I think, on a non-pres- presidential event in ever. This was the first one.
They put, of the four people they send, the most junior guys, the team leader, he doesn't even bother to go pick up his radio. It would have given him comms with all of the local police.
That's mind-blowing. It is mind-blowing.
I was talking to a former Army Ranger sniper friend of mine. He was a sniper in combat, was a team leader.
And before I even started telling him kind of the stuff I learned and stuff I knew, he said, well, I mean, a radio is a sniper's most powerful weapon. It's not the gun.
That's actually not the sniper's job. That's like

one of seven things a sniper does.

Like the most important thing they do is

they observe and they record and they communicate.

And so this guy who's leading

all of the counter snipers, who are

there by the way because there had been a specific

long range threat

against Trump from a foreign actor that they knew about.

That's why they were there.

The guy doesn't even bother to get his radio. And so when Trump is on stage, when you've got all the local cops like setting their hair on fire trying to get this guy who they know has a range finder, he's acting super weird.
At one point point you have local law enforcement starting to draw their weapons that's something you would think like maybe the secret service people on stage or the guys on roofs would want to know about they had no idea wouldn't i mean the first priority would be to establish communication between all law enforcement agencies on site, right? Yeah. That just seems like obvious.

And they didn't even have a unified command post.

They had the Secret Service in one little area, and then they had the local guys over here, and then they had, I think, one or two people who were local in the Secret Service command post, but they didn't actually have a unified command post, which is also bonkers. um can I ask

how crooks knew

that this one cluster of buildings was the one place in the whole area that was outside the security perimeter how would you know that so let let's define terms here so security perimeter is where you can get in where you don't have to get a pat down or through a magnetometer.

So that's just like superficially obvious.

I can walk all the way over there and I don't have to go through a magnetometer. And then you've got the security bubble, which is like the area that people are responsible for, which is going to be a much broader, bigger area than just your security perimeter.

He knew because he'd been walking around there for five hours, totally unmolested.

Got a drone up. He had a range finder.
He cased the place. He knew it just by having walked around and been like, oh, there's no cops over there.
I'm going to go over there. Do we ever find out why those buildings were not under surveillance just because it was such an obvious shooting platform? Yeah, so this is what I find the most enraging.
This counter-sniper team lead has been deposed by a bunch of different committees. He gives different answers in all of them.

Mike, if you want, you know, failure has a lot of people to blame. And so I don't think you can blame it on one person.
I think you can blame it on one organization, which is a secret service, utterly incompetent from top to bottom. It's a totally rotten culture with no accountability, nothing so um and within within that, you had a bunch of people who failed.
But the last link of failure, which is what allowed the guy to get a shot off, was from, was due to this counter sniper team lead. He shows up, I think, four days ahead of time to do his advance.
So, I think this would have been the Wednesday, which would have been July 10th. Trump shot on a Saturday, July 13th.
He has four days on site, puts together his plan, kind of sketches out where he wants everyone. He never set foot on or in that building.
Never. Why? This will blow your mind.
He's testifying to one congressional committee. And they're like, well, they asked him that question.
So you never set foot over there? Like even the day of when you got time to do a final walkthrough? And he says, no, well, you see, because I had to go do a bunch of paperwork. And I want to make sure my paperwork was good and wasn't fuzzy and stuff.
Quote, you live and die by paperwork. I thought you lived and died by bullets.

Yeah. No, you live and die by

paperwork. He was so

focused on his paperwork

that he never went and actually looked around.

The other thing that's crazy. Do you know anything about this guy

by the way?

I know a little bit. I don't know his name.

He

had been with the Secret Service I think for six years. No prior military experience.
No prior sharpshooter or sniper experience. He showed up, worked for two years, because you have to work like a desk or trailing someone for two years before you can be a countersniper.
And then he had been a countersniper for the rest of his time there. Now, I personally find that kind of crazy.
I would think if you want someone whose job is to think what a sniper thinks like and be able to have countermeasures and protect against that, you'd probably want a guy who had done that job before. Yeah.
Like if you're going to have somebody teaching your basketball team how to do defense, you'd like to know that they've made a basket before. Of course.
Yes. But that's not what happened here.
So you had a guy who no prior military experience, no prior sniper experience. He actually wasn't a sniper.
He was a sharpshooter. He could shoot.
I'm sure he could shoot well from long range. But that doesn't make you you a sniper you have to know you have to know so much there's recon there's observing there's getting into position there's communicating there's recording those are all the things that people who go into sniper school in the military spend weeks and weeks doing before they ever touch a gun and they'll talk about like the you can kind of teach anyone to shoot a gun yeah that's the easy part it's it's mechanical it's learning all the other stuff that it's like the real value in the job so this guy never had that just ta-da he's a counter sniper now so he's setting up his perimeter uh he had no idea when he set the people up where he wanted them for the event.
So you've got Trump on stage. You've got three barns behind him.
To Trump's three o'clock, which is directly north, you've got that AGR building where the shooter was. The sniper team set up directly behind Trump on two of the three barns behind him.
So the ones that we've all seen in that shot were like you've got one guy on the tripod who pops up and looks around, and then you've got the other guy who's prone, they never saw the shooter because there's a gigantic tree in their way. From where they were, line of sight to where the building was where Crook shot, gigantic tree, blocking like a third of the building.
They never saw him. him wow so then you have the team leader and his partner and his partner's the one who shot crooks they're on the southern barn and so one's on one side one's on the other the counter sniper team leader he never saw the shooter shooter was dead before he ever saw him so you've got one guy basically in that whole area who has visibility on that roof.
And you would think, oh, well, he must have been scanning that area regularly. Well, Congress deposed this guy.
And he says, no, that actually wasn't my area that I was supposed to be scanning. So if you think of a clock, you know, 12, 12 o'clock, three o'clock, six o'clock, nine, Trump's in the center where he's looking is 12 o'clock.
The position from which he was shot would be three o'clock. The guy who actually shot him, he was actually watching from six o'clock to 12 o'clock.
So east, south and west of Trump. Yes.
He was never looking over there. It wasn't until he heard shots that he turned over there.

So of all the people who were tasked with doing counter-sniper surveillance and mitigation,

only one person ever actually saw the shooter, even though he'd been on the roof for six minutes.

So it sounds like there was a blind spot, an entire quadrant that they weren't even looking at.

Correct.

How can that be? Incompetence. Incompetence, laziness, and arrogance.
And afterwards, the Secret Service, you might recall, tried to blame the local cops. Of course.
They were supposed to do it. We had them in the building.
They never told the cops, number one, that their job was to be scoping out that roof. all of the cops

from the local police forces

who were there to provide

sniper cover. the cops, number one, that their job was to be scoping out that roof.
All of the cops from the local police forces who were there to provide sniper coverage, first off, they were never told that they were counter snipers. They were told they were overwatch.
So they set up in an area in the building where they had a great shot of the crowd, pretty much the entire crowd. And they're watching it the whole time.
They had no idea that they were supposed to be looking at a building roof, which is 180 degrees to their left. And because of how the window opened, it was like one of those, I think they call them casement windows.
They've got the crank. So you've got to crank it and then it slowly opens.
It's not a double sash that opens top and bottom. I don't think they could have seen that if they had wanted to.

Just because of how that window opened,

they'd have to get around

like almost leaning out the window to see,

which of course they're not going to be doing

because they think their job is crowd overwatch.

So those guys somehow get blamed

in media reports by people

who are obviously secret service sources.

Well, we put them in that building.

That was their responsibility.

And all of them were like, no, that was never our responsibility. We had no idea.
Also, they're local cops. It's not their job to protect the candidate or the president.
Right, right. Just because you, secret service, have chosen to delegate one of your responsibilities, it doesn't stop being your responsibility.
Right, it's a core responsibility. That is your whole yeah.
You have literally one job. You don't let the president get shot in the face.
Yes. And so they're questioning this guy, this counter-sniper team lead, and they're trying to get him to admit that things were done wrong.
And so they're asking him, so would you consider what happened a failure? He goes, possibly. The candidate shot in the face and that's a possible failure? Possibly.
And what's weird is- Does this guy still work for the- He still works for the Secret Service. He was put on admin leave for like a week.
And it was more like a mental health therapy leave. Yeah, something traumatic happened.
Oh, like Michael Byrd, you murder someone and you're the victim. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And then he's like right back working full time for the Secret Service.
Now? Now. As far as we know.
Was anybody from Secret Service fired? No, not that we know of. So you had Kim Cheadle who is the head of Secret Service.
He's a total idiot. I thought she was a hero.
She's a hero she's a woman yeah obviously yeah she's strong and brave yeah so she retires then you had her deputy who was like the guy who was actually in charge of the day-to-day he gets elevated doesn't get fired those are the first two people i fire it instantly like i find the leadership channel like the leadership leadership chain, and I find everyone in it, like you're all gone. It's not personal.
You might be great people, but Secret Service calls itself a zero fail agency. You clearly failed.
Yes. And to my knowledge, nobody's been fired.
The problem is that these are the bodyguards and so you know um in the ottoman court everyone was afraid of the bodyguards right so like that's who runs your coup that's exactly yeah we're getting we're getting to like the most basic facts of life which is the armed people are in charge and so um you hate to think that's the rule in america but do you think it's possible that people were afraid to mess with the Secret Service because no one wants to mess with the bodyguards? I assume that's why we've never gotten the truth on the JFK shooting. I just kind of assume Secret Service was involved somehow, and that's why presidents have been cowed into not releasing it.
Interesting. It wouldn't shock me.
Yeah. I mean, that's like the most, you know, that's the most basic interest of anybody's not to get shot to death.
Right, right. Yeah.
And, you know, I'm speculating to some extent, but you do wonder. I always wondered and I asked, like, if you're the Trump campaign, why don't you make a, I mean, I think or I know that Trump thinks he doesn't want to whine about being shot because you seem weak when you want.
They tried to shoot me. You know, he downplayed it on purpose.
And I think that was a manly thing to do. It's an impressive thing to do.
There's dignity in that. I admire it.
However, it is kind of important to find out what happened. And I always suspected that maybe they felt a little bit threatened because they've got a campaign.
They've got months more of campaigning to do. They want to do outdoor venues.
Trump loves outdoor venues. He's brave.
He's obviously physically brave. We know that.
On the other hand, do you really want to piss off your bodyguards? I mean, do you think that is part of the dynamic here? I mean, how could it not be? Well, that's how I feel. Right.
Yeah, you had the people on the stage. They didn't know anything was going on until Trump had been shot.
Like you would think the people on the stage who are like the literal personal protective detail, the ones who physically form. Oh, all the fat girls on the stage.
Is that even? No, there was, I think there was one. One, okay.
Yeah, but there were several men on there. Those guys are the ones who like physically have to go in and I think they call it a body bunker they put around the president.
Yes. They had no idea anything was going on or there was anything, any trouble anywhere until they hear shots fired.
And they interviewed the guy who came. So if you're watching Trump and you see the Secret Service agents come in, the guy on the left gets in first.
So I think the House Butler Task Force interviewed him. And they said, okay, take us through what was going on in your head in that moment.
He's like, well, yeah, we heard some scuttlebutt that local police were looking at something at three o'clock to Trump's right. That was it.
He said, and then I heard like a pop. And he said, my immediate thought was it sounded like one of those pop it firecrackers just thrown on the ground.
Exactly. It always does he said so that's that's what i thought it was so i thought it was a heckler in the crowd there must have been like a heckler who got the poppets in the crowd and then i hear the second shot and i'm waiting to hear in my ear heckler he said then i heard the third and that's when i knew i and by the way he's hearing nothing in his ears at this point getting no communication he said that's the point at which I go and jump on the president we hear him kind of going over us yeah I was in a restaurant the other night in fact this weekend and I had a little trouble hearing what people were saying and I I thought to myself, I'm a little young to go deaf.

Why?

Well, because I grew up shooting, bird hunting, target shooting.

And I remember my father saying, just stick a Marlboro filter in your opposite ear and you'll be fine.

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So of the eight shots, where did they go, those eight shots? I think they were only able to find actual bullet fragments from two. So there were actually, there were 10 shots fired total.
There were eight from Crooks. There was one from a local law enforcement officer who shot almost simultaneously with Crooks' eighth shot.

so you have one two three you had a burst of three then you had a burst of five and then the five like all went high one of them hit a hydraulic line on one of those like telehandlers or lulls

or cranes behind it so it starts spewing hydraulic fluid everywhere and you see it drop all of a

sudden after the hydraulic line on one of those telehandlers or lulls or cranes behind it. So it starts spewing hydraulic fluid everywhere.
And you see it drop all of a sudden after the hydraulic line gets punctured, if you watch the video again. So I think that was from that second group.
So it was three and then five. As Crooks fired his eighth shot, a local officer fires his gun at Crooks.
He swears he got him. There's no forensic medical evidence that he did, but there's no firing from Crooks after that point, after that eighth shot.
And then 15 seconds later comes the shot that kills Crooks. No way.
15 seconds. And the reason that happened was because nobody

had eyes on the roof. So you had your

sniper. 15 seconds?

Yep. So that's an

entire magazine worth of, I mean

you could fire an entire magazine. Oh, easy.

With an AR, you could easily unload a mag.

Wow, that is crazy

town. Yeah, so you have the sniper

who's on the

roof who takes the shot. He's been

watching, so like if you are Thank you. That is crazy town.
Yeah. So you have the sniper who's on the roof who takes the shot.

He's been watching. So like if you are crooks, if you're where their shooter is and I'm where Trump is, the guy who shot him is looking here and all the way over here the whole time.
He's looking to his left and back around. Yes.
So he hears the shots. he has to get up, orient himself to where the shots are coming from,

where if he's got like earmuffs on or ear protection on,

that can be kind of hard to do. Because those play tricks with locating sound.
Yeah, it's impossible. So he's got to locate the guy where the shots are coming from.
Has to make identification of the guy who's got the gun

and then has to fire at him.

So I don't even blame that guy

because he was told to watch this sector.

He's watching it.

But yeah, 15 seconds.

And he fires one shot.

With a .308?

300 Win Mag.

Wow.

That's a big boy gun.

That's a scary gun.

So it's 300 Win Mag.

Really?

Is that what they use?

Yeah.

Black Hills ammunition.

so the conversation

so the 300 Win Mag. Wow.
That's a big boy gun. That's a scary gun.
So it's 300 Win Mag. Really? Is that what they use? Yeah.
Black Hills ammunition. So the cartridge was Black Hills.
Yeah, yeah. It was a 210 grain hollow point tip on it.
So. That ends the conversation.
So that's for people who don't shoot, that's so much larger than the 223 or 556 round that Crooks is shooting. I mean, it's.
Well is huge yeah it's like four bucks a cartridge i mean it's like it's a big that's a big boy cartridge and when you fire a 300 wind mag like you feel that you get fatigued pretty i had someone come to my range um just at my house and with his grandfather's 300 wind mag we're just shooting on sunday afternoon and he just charges the thing and i was like man no more, no more of that. That's too loud.
I can't deal with it. It's so loud.
It shakes my molars. Yeah.
You go to a range where someone's shooting like 300 or up and you're like, oh. It's impolite.
I don't know. Put a suppressor on it.
I totally agree. Wow.
That's. That's.
Yeah. And 210 grain.
That's a big. Yes.
That's a big bullet. Yes.
And so I think he hits him from 155 yards.

And it hit him in the lip,

goes through

the face, out

the neck, but then back into his back.

And they recovered a fragment

of the mushroomed

bullet from Crooks' body.

Well, he didn't suffer.

Not with the 210 grain

from a 300-win mech. Wow.
So tell me about the cop who says he shot Crooks. Where was he?

he was so there was this furious action going on by the agr building yeah i believe there were five either four or five different local law enforcement agencies so you had the pennsylvania state

police you had the troopers. You had Butler County Police.
So Butler County was the county where Butler is. You had the Butler Township Police.
Yes. You had the Beaver County, I think, sheriffs.
So they're one county west of Butler. And then you had the Washington County, which is southwest of Butler.
So you had five different local law enforcement. The Washington guys, I believe, were down by the horse ring, which is probably a good four to five hundred yards away from everything.
But they had fairly good visual coverage of everything. So it was mostly the Butler and Beaver County people.
So they're furiously searching around. You've got one guy who tried to climb on the roof because they're furiously searching.
He climbs on the roof. His partner hoists him up.
So he's kind of holding on like this to the roof, looks up and sees the shooter right there. He says the shooter turns on him and aims him.
And he said, I don't know what happened next. I don't know if I lost my grip.
He said, next thing I know, I'm on the ground. I'm on the concrete.
He said, there's no way for me to pull my gun because he's like hanging, like doing a pull-up. He's like, I'm hanging there.
I'm not going to be able to like... So he says, I don i don't remember exactly what happened all i know is i saw him crooks turned and aimed his rifle at me and the next thing i know i'm getting myself up off the concrete damn so who is the cop who says he shot crooks i think it was a beaver county cop at at some distance though um yeah i mean not he wasn't right on him, but he had him in his sights, fired one round.
With a rifle. With a rifle.
Swears he shot him. But there's no evidence that he did.
There's no forensic evidence in Crooks' body that he was shot. But Crooks stopped firing after the eighth round, which was simultaneous with the round from that cop.
So, did he hit the gun, maybe? There's some speculation that he might have hit the stock? Well, it sounds like he stopped the shooting. He absolutely did.
Whether he hit him or not, he absolutely did. So, a magazine has, obviously, more than eight rounds in it.
And I assume Crooks did as well. He had unfired rounds in the mag when he was, when the rifle was recovered, right? They recovered, I think all eight shell casings.
No, but he still had ammunition in the magazine. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Right. So what I'm asking is, it sounds like the local cops stopped the shooting.
Yeah, yeah. He didn't run out, he didn't stop shooting because he ran out of ammo.
Exactly. Correct.
So it was not the Secret Service that stopped this assassination attempt.

It was local cops.

Yeah, that's when the shooting stopped.

It stopped permanently when he got a 210 grain Hornady tip through his upper lip.

Yeah.

But the shooting had been stopped prior to that.

Wow.

15 seconds, as noted, is a very long time.

Why?

Because they had no eyes on him.

You had your two snipers on the roof in the north barn,

and that was the number two unit,

how they were kind of categorized in all the documents.

They never saw him because they had a gigantic tree in their way.

It was impossible.

And so it's interesting. We all watched watched that footage everyone's wondering who got him so they see the guy who's kind of kneeled kneeling down he's on the big tripod people automatically assumed oh well he did it and then he's got the guy prone next to him no well he must have been the one to do it you see him like he's either looking through i his binoculars.
He might have been looking through his scope. He hears the gunshots and he pops up.
Do you remember this in the video? Pops up and he kind of looks around and you're like, why is he off the glass? That's weird. He doesn't know where it came from.
Like those two guys on that north barn are furiously looking where it is. There's no way you could know.
I mean, it would be impossible to know. Yeah.
Unless you were looking, had someone looking there. Exactly, which they didn't.
And then you have the countersniper team lead who had convinced himself that because they had local cops in the building, that that was their job to be watching that, even though it was physically impossible for them to do. And they were never told they had to do that.
And then the one guy who had a sight line to that was assigned a sector that was exact opposite of it. How, like, that's a lot of incompetence.
It's unbelievable. So three people were shot, two in addition to President Trump.
Yeah, yeah, that was your question. Sorry, I got sidetracked.
You said, where did the bullets go?

Yeah.

So three people were shot.

Corey Comparator, the firefighter, he was shot.

Two other men were shot.

We know-

Two other men?

Yes.

There were four people shot.

Trump, two men who were shot and didn't die, and Corey, who was killed by a bullet.

Yeah, right next to my producer, like right next to him, which is wild. Yeah, it was right there.
He said he was covered in blood. Wow.
From it. Yeah, I'm only saying that because there's a lot of drama.
Yeah. It's not just Trump getting shot in the face.
Yeah, a man died. Yeah, he was murdered.
Yeah. And two others were shot.
Do we know anything about them or how they fared? They're alive and well. There was an interview with them by one of the networks a couple weeks ago, but they're alive and well, and they're talking about it.
Obviously, they'll carry scars with it forever, but I don't believe they were permanently disabled in any way.

Damn. But they couldn't account for all the bullets.
Yeah. Which makes

sense. You know, something nicks a

bleacher and goes off into the ground,

you're never finding a bullet. These are .22 caliber

bullets, just to be clear. Yep.

So they were .223

caliber bullets

in a .556 cartridge. Right.

But the bullet itself is .22 caliber. Yep.
These are 5.56 cartridge. Right.
But the bullet itself is 22 caliber.

Yep.

Tiny. Very small.
People who don't

shoot guns and think ARs are

massive, big, powerful guns,

they'd be shocked at how tiny

.223 rounds are. Right.
The point is the velocity.

Exactly. How fast they're going.

But it's not a

210 grain Hornady tip 300

mag. Right.
Which you could not mistake for anything but like a bullet. Right.
Yeah. So, wow.
Okay. So, we know nothing about the shooter.
We know nothing about why he did this, his beliefs, who he spoke to. He's just, we know nothing about him.
He's a cipher. No, literally nothing.
He's the only 20-year-old with no social media presence and apparently no cutlery, silverware in his house. Yeah, I remember that news report.
One of my daughters just told me that. So it was reported that afterwards.
My theory is that silverware was taken as evidence because he was mixing bombs in his house. I did not read anywhere that when officers showed up, because they interviewed one ATF agent who was actually in the home and who was the one who discovered the IED in Crooks' bedroom.
No mention of no silverware. He's like, no, it's a normal house.
It was well kept. It it was clean it's not like a bunch of uh sloppy sloppy hoarders lived there it's like a nice normal house in order um yeah so i i don't know where the silver because i've heard the same thing i've not read a single report from someone who was there that says yeah we got in there and there's there's no silverware.
I suspect that they took it to test it forensically

to see if he was mixing bombs with it.

Because he had a gallon of nitromethane in his closet.

It was openly viewable.

Pardon me, Angers.

What's nitromethane?

It's a major component of bomb making.

It's liquid, has an odor.

Can you buy it at a hardware store? Yeah. Totally buy it off the shelf.
Huh. Nitro methane.
Yeah, so he had a gallon of it. And so the ATF guy walks in, sees the bomb, looks around, sees in his closet this gallon of explosive material.
And then at that point, they immediately clear the whole house, and I believe all the houses, one house around it. Wow.
But we still don't know anything about him or why he did this. We also don't know why, according to your account, why the Secret Service made this colossal error in judgment and just like left out an entire quadrant of a potential field of fire just kind of ignored it we don't know why no no but we do don't blame it on manpower that that's that's always the easy bureaucratic solution but even that is it true that um dr jill biden america's famous research scientist.
What did Whoopi say? Amazing doctor. Amazing doctor.
She should be Surgeon General. But is it true that she was having an event and that that bled off manpower that could have been used at the Trump event? Yes, one, it didn't just bleed off manpower.
So she had an event in Pittsburgh. There was bleed off in the radios.
So the Secret Service at the Butler event for Trump was actually having issues with their radios because they were getting bleed over from the radios, from the agents at Jill Biden's event. Dr.
Jill. Excuse me.
Excuse me, Dr. Jill.
That's incredible. And okay, so that's a whole lot of we don't knows so your third question was what happened after to everybody nothing sorry to break the suspense there nothing okay so what do you think this adds up to you said you were vacillating between two and three.
Can you remind us what this option is? Yeah. So two was what I call strategic incompetence, where Trump was deliberately left vulnerable.
And I think that for a whole host of reasons. One, that I'm conscious and I've been alive.
But right after the shooting, my wife and I were together working on home projects and we hadn't been paying attention to our phones and so started getting texts from people. my wife and I were together working on home projects and we got we hadn't been paying attention to our phones and so started getting texts from people my wife got a text from her friend Trump's been shot like we're just kind of like stunned like immediately pray because we don't know what the result is a couple minutes later you know text that he's okay and then right after that, my phone starts going crazy.
I'm getting texts and everything. And one of the most interesting texts I got, which I tweeted about, was that the Secret Service Special Operations Division, which is kind of like the elite division within the Secret Service, if you can say that.
they had been asking for more protection for years for Trump, repeatedly, over and over and again. And it was denied, repeatedly.
Denied so much that they just stopped asking for it. Because it was kind of viewed as if you ask for something you're not going to get, it's like gauche within the agency.
Denied by whom? Another great question we don't have have an answer to so it's secret service is now under the umbrella of dhs yeah it was always under treasury yeah it was and then they moved it i don't know five ten years ago yeah so under myorkas like a real real competent public servant there yeah so you've got him it did the rejections come from dhs i don't know. You've got Cheetle up there, who's an idiot.
Did it come from her? I don't know. Where did she go when she retired, by the way? I don't think we know.
Actually, no. I'm going to assume she's doing security for like a Fortune 500 CEO.
Yeah, exactly. Or a University of California school.
Right. But no, we don't know where she is now.
Yeah. So, but it's not clear why they denied or who denied.
Nope. Don't know where she is now yeah so but we it's not clear

why they denied or who

denied nope don't know why who

how often and that

weekend so I put that out it gets some traction

secret service

spokesman Anthony

I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right

something like that spent the whole

weekend calling reporters and telling him I was making

it up that never happened

puts out a statement it's not true

he's never denied anything

Thank you. something like that.
Spent the whole weekend calling reporters and telling him I was making it up. That never happened.
But it's had a statement that's not true. He's never denied anything.
Bobby Kennedy was denied Secret Service protection. They didn't want to run against him.
They'd rather he'd be dead. Clearly.
Yeah, of course. But that's such sinister behavior.
I mean, that's a kind of attempted murder, really. So I just don't understand how, I mean, disobedience to the regime is punished immediately.
Tax evasion is punished immediately. But like attempted murder is not.
You're asking who's Thomas Crooks. We know more about Joe the Plumber.
You remember Joe the Plumber? Very well. He died, unfortunately.
He did. I knew him.
Yeah. He asked a question about taxes to Obama, like in a rope line.
Yeah. They gave that dude like the media digital colonoscopy within like five minutes.
We know more about a guy who asked Obama a question about taxes than we do about a guy who shot Trump in the head. Well, of course.
The media really are a player in all this. They're not just like dupes.
They're not just you know, the PR office for the regime.

They are like players.

They're active participants

in, you know,

totalitarianism, I would say.

Do you know how Crooks' father found out

his son was the shooter? No.

CNN called him.

Really? Yeah, well we're talking about

kind of like weird, creepy media stuff. Yeah.
So, there's no ID on Thomas Crooks. They get to the body.
He's dead. They don't know who he is.
The only thing they have is a serial number on his rifle. So, they call up ATF and they do what's called an urgent trace to figure out where was this gun bought.
And I think it takes them... Dettelbach, the ATF director, it took him 30 minutes.
I think it took like two hours, but they know by around like 830, definitely by nine-ish that the dad bought the gun and where he bought it from. And it was from a retailer that had since been closed.
They put together a report, like a pretty narrow distribution of people. I think it went to Pennsylvania State

Police, so local police could go stake the place

out. Went to FBI.

ATF had it, but it's a very, very small

distribution. And we know because we got the testimony

from the guy who sent it out.

ATF

and a couple cops are sent to go

do a stakeout on

Crooks' father's house.

So they get there, we'll call it like 10 or 1030. At that point, they're already seeing cars slowly drive by in ways that obviously they don't live on that street.
And I think 1056, they get a word from a dispatcher that Crooks' father has called 911 to report his son missing.

At that point, they're no longer doing a stakeout.

They have to go confront him because obviously he knows something.

They go up to his door. He meets them out there.

And he says, is it true? Was it my son?

And they ask him, why would you say that? He said, CNN called me and told me.

He got two calls from CNN

and a call from an NBC producer.

That does not make sense at all.

How could that happen?

Somebody leaked it.

But how would someone know who he was?

They had it from the ATF report

that had the trace of the serial number.

So somebody,

yeah, the ATF report,

somebody had that and decided, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to call CNN and NBC. They don't know who did it.
But it's interesting that they would know it was the son because it was the father on the ATF record. He's the one who purchased the rifle.
Right. But somehow CNN and NBC knew that it was not the father but the son.
Well, because at that point, did we know the age of the person? I don think we knew yeah so yeah cnn called me and told me and when i found that out by the way i'm still angry about the whole roger stone ray i'm just thinking that exact thing that's so funny cnn happened to be there that morning right before the cops got liars they are liars they are liars they absolutely had absolutely had it leaked to them. Oh, I know.
And so I saw that

and it just instantly reminded me

of the Roger Stone thing

and then made me angry again.

I was just thinking that

to be active participants

in the repression of a population

by its government

is like pretty,

it's like capo behavior.

It's like really, really dark

and evil.

And that's who they are.

I spent 10 years there, I know.

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I didn't fully know when I was there, but like, yeah, no, they're not observers at all.

They're players.

They're players.

And they're big players.

That's why they hate the internet so much.

But, you know, that leak, it materially changed how the police responded.

You know, they found bombs.

They're trying to get a perimeter.

They're trying to keep

an eye on things.

They're waiting

to get the signal

to actually go

confront the family.

And because this guy got,

I'm convinced

that he called police

after being called by CNN.

Yeah.

It's not in the report,

but like,

you'll never convince me otherwise.

Materially changed how the cops had to approach the home of the shooter. To me, it's just unconscionable.
Yeah, that's not surprising. And then let's imagine you're seeing anything, you got this great scoop.
What are you getting out of informing a father of that? Because they didn't report it. Right.
Well, they do a lot that they don't report yeah a lot including in the roger stone raid i mean they were participants in political repression cheerleaders for it but not just cheerleaders they were like part of the process yep they were used by the biden administration to well that was actually the trump i think that was the trump fbi still although it's it's all the same right it's just crazy that could have that that could have happened the lack of control over the federal agencies by the executive by the white house is like i hope we never see that again because that's really dark um but anyway yeah no cnn very very bad uh is there i know i've asked the same question 15 times but i just i can't believe there's no real answer. We don't know anything about who Crooks talked to? No.
Before this? Nothing. Nope.
Don't know who he was texting. Don't know what was going on on these encrypted apps.
We know he went to the range that day. Why not? Why doesn't the Congress issue subpoenas to find out? Because they're completely weak and neutered.
I mean, my view is Congress is by far the most powerful branch. Of course.
It controls the purse. It's designed to be.
Exactly. And yet in practice today in 2025 it's far and away the weakest.
Except when they do the one thing that they do do, which is to preserve the total control

over the United States by the national security state.

And so you're seeing this right now where, you know, committee chairmen in the Congress

are saying to the incoming administration, no, no, no, it has to be all deep staters.

Like you can't have Tulsi Gabbard or anyone like Tulsi Gabbard.

It's all got to be, you know, John Ratcliffe or someone, you know, we know and who's obviously under our control. And they're insistent on that, exercising that power, which I find really interesting.
And how long, I was so naive. Like I believed that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq because they told us there were.
Like why would they lie? So it didn't dawn on me that they were

all just corrupt liars until really the

Russiagate hoax, but it didn't

start in 2001.

Like,

I feel like it's been that way for like

70 years.

Well, it's certainly been that way. I mean,

like we know for a fact it's been that

way since right around late November

of 1963. Like, we just know

that. So, but I agree.

I mean, I just think it goes back to

Thank you. we know for a fact it's been that way since right around late november of 1963 like we just know that so but i i agree i mean i just think it goes back to you know the second world war like yeah

because they didn't their first crime was good war their first crime was not killing kennedy

like that wasn't like dipping their toes in the water no you know they had some practice rounds

um it's just interesting that this seems like one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you and i do

I think it's a good thing. No, no.
No, it wasn't. They had some practice rounds.
It's just interesting that this seems like one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you, and I do think you're probably the most informed person in all media, though I don't know if you'd admit to being in media, but do you think of yourself as in media? Well, I don't like to use the J word. I know.
It's filthy. I know.
It's funny. You and Schellenberger are two of my favorite,

right at the top of my favorite journalist list,

and neither one of you started out intending to do this or went to journalism school.

You're both doing completely different things.

It's interesting.

That's actually how it should be.

I totally agree.

That's actually how it used to be.

I know.

It used to be a blue-collar job, and you'd work a beat, and now you have to go to Medill or Columbia, and it's just embarrassing. No, it's interesting.
The journalists I respect more are all people who could be doing something else, making a lot more money, who didn't set out to do this, just sort of out of curiosity and patriotism and, you know, kind of like moral responsibility are doing it. So, and you're in that category.
So thank you. But anyway, the reason I want to talk to you was it felt like if you can do something as obvious as set up a shooting of Donald Trump in the summer of an election year and get away with it, like then you're still in control of everything.
So the craziest thing, and people in Trump's circle have told me there's no chance it could have happened this way they swear there's no way it happened this way do you remember um JD's Rogan interview yeah he's kind of talking about when he was his process of interviewing to be VP and all that and Trump was considering bringing him up at that Butler rally and announcing him. I know.
Yeah, I know. That was not just considering but that was like a much discussed.
Oh, yeah. So kind of at that point JD's been told like you're it and now we know with Trump like it's never actually done until it's done.
So it wasn't technically done. It was done Monday afternoon, though.
That was Saturday. Yeah.
Yes. But JD's been told they're mulling the idea of him going to Butler, and then Trump's like, no, we don't really want to do that.
We haven't done the prep and all that, so we'll just put a pin in that. That was the last rally before he had announced a VP.

So that's, if you are a crooked, evil deep stater and you want to get rid of the virus that is Donald Trump and make sure that he doesn't get to pick the person who would be

running in his stead if something happened.

Make sure he doesn't get to reproduce.

That's when you would do it.

And so I've asked, I said, did anyone leak that? He said, no, impossible. No one leaked it.
And I said, okay, I 100% believe. Like kind of just knowing who's around that, 100% believe that.
You're telling me it's impossible that nobody heard the conversation through other means? Leaked the fact that JD was going to speak at that rally? Or leaked that like he had basically been picked. Oh, no, that was known.
Well, I knew that. Okay, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I did. We're in different circles, Tucker.
No, not really. I'm living in some weird rural place in Maine.
But no, I knew that. Absolutely.
And a lot of people knew that. I mean, all the people I know who knew that are good people who love Trump.
But I mean, I'm suggesting anything, but I'm just in point of fact a lot of people knew. Yeah.
So if other people knew it, that is a— The more people who know, you know, the more people who know. Yeah.
So I just—that thing, I don't know if I'll ever be able to get that out of my head, the timing based on what was going on that weekend. But there was at least one subsequent attempt, assassination attempt on Donald Trump's life.
Were there others? So you're talking about the West Palm one? Yeah, but I mean after mid-July were there, do you think, other attempts? I don't know. Were there? I don't know, but I think there might have been.
No, you just didn't hear about him?

I think that's entirely possible.

I would totally, I would buy that.

Yeah.

So, who was the West Palm?

The West Palm guy was like.

That one is so much wackier than the Butler one.

In touch with all these members of Congress.

Yeah.

Well, I think there was a photo of him with that stupid chef, that stupid commie chef.

What's his name?

I don't have a TV. Jose Andres something.
I think that guy got a Presidential Medal of Freedom from Biden. There's a picture of him with him.
He's like palling around. Not really.
Yeah, I think unless I'm like totally getting my wires crossed, I'm pretty sure that guy got a medal of freedom and there's a picture of him with Ralph, this like homeless Hawaiian mercenary bringing troops to Ukraine who's camped out on Trump's golf course after Trump's already been shot in the head and a secret service guy happens to see him. I think the report I read was he was five feet away, fires like rounds at him misses and it was local cops who got the guy 45 minutes later how does that happen that's just it's all so incredible yeah so do you the members i just want to put it on the record the members of congress you said that the two committee inquiries were pretty good.
Given the constraints that they have. So Congress doesn't have a lot of staff for doing this stuff.
Right. They had no time.
They don't have the investigative tools that the FBI has. You had the Senate Homeland Security Committee that did its own report.
And then you had the Butler Task Force bipartisan in the House that did its report. I thought they did a great job, both of them,

given the limitations and constraints they have.

I don't know how they could have been more thorough

given the FBI trying

to block them from doing anything.

Is this the end of the inquiry?

It better not be.

I mean,

Trump's coming in in a couple

days. He's going to be president.
He's hopefully going to get his people in office better not be the end of the inquiry I kind of feel like there's so much going on in the world right now that you know maybe people just kind of forget to ask I mean I know enough about human nature to where I can't dismiss that. But yeah, there's always some new story we have to go react to and pretend we're very upset about.
It's like every day. Remember when news cycles were like three days long? I remember very well.
I remember when Natalie Holloway disappeared in Aruba. Yeah.
And I worked in cable news then, and we spent approximately three years talking about it every day. No disrespect to Natalie Holloway or the inherent significance of a story about a dead American.
It's important. But yeah, no, that was...
And you sort of wonder what else was going on while we were talking about Natalie Holloway. Yeah.
Yeah, I've gone back and thought of all the time I wasted

with Gary Condit.

Oh, man.

You know, how much time did we spend looking into

what happened on 9-11 right around zero?

Just repeating all the dumb talking points.

They hate us for our freedoms and all that stuff

and not asking obvious questions.

Some people were celebrating it.

Who were those people?

And like, what is this?

I think one of the hijackers was living with an FBI informant

for like a year.

I think that's correct.

Yeah. Mistakes were made.
It's all still classified. So you can't know.
Yeah. Interesting.
So the obvious question is why aren't other elected officials so anxious to get to the bottom of this? Because it has implications for them. When this happened, my wife said, are we ever going to find out what this was? And I said with false confidence, absolutely.
One thing members of Congress care about is not being assassinated. So they have every vested interest in finding out what this was and in making the right reform so they can stay safe themselves.
I turned out to be completely wrong. What is that? Yeah, I don't know what's happened to Congress.
I think it's probably a combination of, obviously the more responsibility you take, if you're going to take 100% of the powers you've been given by the founders and the Constitution and exercise that every day, you're going to have 100% of the accountability. There's nothing a member of Congress politician hates more than accountability.
So, they are generally happy to delegate all of their authority to the executive, where they can just blame stuff on bureaucrats. Oh, it was a bad process.
It was a bad bureaucrat. People in Washington love blaming process.
Have you noticed that? It's always the process. There's never a person at fault for anything.
It's always a process that can be strengthened. You worked in the Senate.
You worked for Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. God rest his soul.
So you can answer this question. But as I just look onto the Congress where I've never worked, but it seems like the single most corrupt or certainly the most infuriating part of the Congress is the Republicans in the Senate.
Oh my gosh. We fought with them more than Democrats.
Okay. So you agree with that? Oh, you have no idea.
Okay. So I'm thinking like, who do I dislike most? Mitch McConnell.
Yes. It's not Alexandria O.C.
or whatever she's calling herself. You know, it's like a buffoon.

But,

and at least has,

you know,

10% sincerity in my read.

But I look at some

of the Republicans,

you know,

Rish and some of these guys,

I'm like,

oh my gosh.

This is really sinister.

Yeah,

and man,

Coburn was,

that guy was a unicorn.

Like,

there will only ever be one of him.

He didn't care what anyone thought about him. He hated everyone in Washington.
He hated Washington itself. All he wanted to do was like go up there and cut spending and restore some sanity and then go deliver babies on the weekend.
And then the Senate was like, actually, we're going to ban you from doing that because it's a conflict of interest. Delivering babies? Delivering babies.
He's like, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it for free.
I'll pay MedMal out of my own pocket. And I said, no, no, you can't do that.
We're going to ban you. The Senate Ethics Committee went after him for years.
For delivering babies. For delivering babies.
It's too life-affirming. Exactly.
He's two babies. If he was an abortionist, that been fine yeah yeah but you know be actually touching and being with constituents that was too much but i remember doing stuff with him where we would have constantly people telling us we don't do things like that around here really yeah all the time and we'd be like what what do you mean you don't do you don't do things like, no, that's not how we do things around here.

And because we were all so young and green and idealistic, it was actually the genius in how he put together staff.

It wasn't like an all-star cast of elite players.

He just took a bunch of chuckleheads who believed in his mission and was like, yeah, go do damage out there.

And so we did it.

And so we were too stupid to know what we weren't supposed to be doing.

Thank you. believed in his mission and was like, yeah, go do damage out there.
And so we did it. And so we were too stupid to know what we weren't supposed to be doing.
Why isn't every, I mean, there seems to be something peculiarly, specifically wrong with the dynamic among Republicans in the Senate. I don't know what that is.
Like they seem more committed to betraying their voters than any other group I've ever seen in politics. Yeah, it's super weird.

For most of them, it's like their Senate tenure is five years of doing what they want and then a year of promising to do what their voters want.

It's like a sickness.

I genuinely don't understand it. I don't know if something happens when you become a Republican senator that happens to like 90% of them where they get there and they just like being important and that becomes the thing they care about.
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go and they're going to important and that becomes the thing they care about and they're so dot you talked about the media being a player the media like exists in large part to gaslight Republicans into doing what they want to control them yeah and so these guys they for whatever reason they care what CNN thinks about him they care what the New York Times about him. And they don't understand that if you actually want to be powerful as a Republican, not caring what anyone thinks about you makes you a freaking superhero.
I agree with that. Makes you untouchable.
They don't like the machine doesn't know how to handle someone who doesn't care about their next job or the next puff piece. You're basically an alien to them.
They don't know how to intimidate you or how to threaten you. Like, oh, you'll cast me out of this awful city full of terrible people? Oh, no.
What will I do? Yeah. I mean, do you see it changing at all? A little bit.
It changes with the class. So I've got a friend who's like one of the few really good true believers on the right.
Worked in the Senate for a long time. Total genius.
Parliamentary genius. And he says you can kind of judge senators, unlike House members, you can judge senators by the class that they were elected into.
And that kind of tells you about the character of that whole group of people. so you got the the guys who came in in 2002.
War on terror. Got to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.
They're the worst neocons. The worst.
And that kind of bleeds into 04. And then you get the 06 thing where I don't think we even elected a new Republican senator because it was such a political bloodbath because the Iraq war was a disaster.
Then, oh, wait, you've got the Obama years. And then the first kind of big year was 2010.
That was all Tea Party. Yeah.
Those guys still have the Tea Party mentality, which is fine. I think the Tea Party was great.
Yeah. But you have to be able to, like, evolve with the electorate.
They're still stuck in, like, Tea Party town. And then 2014 was, like, the repeal Obamacare.
That was the thing. And it really wasn't until 2016 where you actually started seeing a change that was reflective of where the people are.
Happened again in 2018. And then most of the guys coming in now are so much better than the people they serve with who got elected 20 years ago.
That's not even close. Yes.
And yet they're still senators and they still care about what people think about them. Like somewhat, someone like you or me will never ever be in that body.
Well, no. And I would, you know, I'd rather die.
But what's interesting is it's not on questions like, you know, we spent all this time on the training question, which I think is inherently important. And I do think if you eliminate sex differences, civilization collapses because they're built on sex differences.
That's my view. So I'm completely aligned.
I couldn't be more pro-life. And there are tons of Republicans in both houses who agree with all that or say they do or do a good job of pretending it's fine.
It's the national security intel stuff, the police power stuff, surveillance power stuff. Man, they are, that's what they take seriously.
That's what they actually care about. Have you noticed this? Yeah, yeah.
And it's actually you see guys who really want to get on the intel committee. Yes.
Like, unless you're going to do real oversight, which I think one person, Devin Nunes, has ever done on that committee, the only reason to be on that is to, like, be cool. You get to be with the spies, and you get read in on it, and they make you feel special, and you get to go on Codells, and then maybe one day they'll write a book about you, like Charlie Wilson's War, about how courageous you were and shipping a bunch of weapons all around the world and starting wars that we're still dealing with the ramifications of.
Like it's the Jason Bourne, like John le Carré kind of stuff that they actually think they're a part of. Millions of Americans are still clinging to their New Year's resolutions, but some goals transcend the flipping of the calendar.
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I mean that. I mean, way more evil than like, you know, I think Head Start was a disaster.
Social Security is bankrupting the country. Medicare, you know, there's all these problems with social workers.
But you don't look at that and say the people who started that are evil. They're just like dumb or they didn't foresee the consequences of what they were doing.
But like the people who, you know, cheered the murder of Gaddafi or never admitted they lied about weapons mass destruction

or the people pushing,

claiming that we should lower

the conscription age in Ukraine to 18

because we haven't killed enough Ukrainians

after a million have died or been wounded.

I just think that's evil.

It is evil.

It's people who,

it's almost like they get off

on the rah-rah team sport aspect of people getting blown to bits. Yes.
And having their lives, you know, if not ended, ruined forever. And I swear, I don't see how any of these people, they must not have ever talked to anyone who spent any time actually doing dirty work in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Because you can't spend any time. It destroys those guys.
It destroyed a whole generation of war fighters and young men and it's in evil ways they were killed or disabled we're only looking at a small part of it I've known some of them well it's killing people is bad for you and sometimes you have to kill people I mean you do if I have a home invader and my wife and kids are going to kill a guy I would sleep soundly after killing him I mean you have to kill people i mean you do if there's if i have a home invader and my wife and kids are a killer guy i would sleep soundly after killing him i mean you have to but ultimately killing people is bad and it's bad for the person who kills and we don't even acknowledge that and i just know a lot of them so i've seen it and it's would you want that on you no well i mean it's why it's why i never joined like i just i couldn't not because you killed. It's because you're afraid of killing, and you should be.
Like, that's a very heavy thing to ask someone to do, and then not to acknowledge it. Just be like, oh, yeah, good job.
When you see the scars they bring back to the mental, emotional, spiritual. Yes.
And, you know, some of them deal with it way better than others, but there's a reason the suicide rate's so high. And the divorce rate and the addiction rate and the weirdness rate and the deep kind of heavy trouble that you feel on a lot of them.
I don't, God, my gosh, I don't blame them. A lot of them are wonderful, admirable people.
And they were asked to do something and they did it. And they did it under duress and at great personal risk.
And, like, I admire them. I'm not criticizing them.
Just saying not to acknowledge what we've asked them to do not to acknowledge the burden of having killed somebody it's like how shallow and cruel are we well in in the the news media the corporate media they they treat it like it's a fun sport it's like red team what let's look what red team versus blue team did today let's look at this footage of like like this Russian getting killed by a drone. And then they cheer and they, oh, isn't this great? Isn't this awesome? Yeah, it is.
These are human beings. Yeah.
And it didn't want to be there. Didn't just like some kid gets his face blown off and you're cheering it.
It's gross. It's disgusting.
And it's weird. I look back on kind of how I thought about things in the run up to the Iraq war, and I'm just kind of ashamed about it.
Me too. Because I was like the jingoistic, rah-rah kind of thing.
And you find out it was all based on a lie, and you see that. It's just that permanently changed how I looked at that entire bureaucracy.
I completely agree. And in 2001 and 2002, when I was tepidly cheerleading, I will say that's my only defense, it was kind of tepid.
I sort of knew it was wrong, but I convinced myself it wasn't. But when I was making the case for the Iraq War and repeating the lies of the Bush administration, I'd never really seen violence, personally seen it.
And that was a huge change for me, seeing that. I was like, I'm not into this at all.
I don't know why. Why is this good? I don't think it's good.
It doesn't feel good. You know what I mean? It's just, I don't want that, any more of that.
I don't want to see that. I don't want to be around it at all.
It's not a turn on at all. It's like horrible.
So that was personally for me a huge change. But I just think that it's important to remember, especially as Christians, like we're against violence.
I don't we are sorry we're against violence we should not ever cheer someone's death right yeah i mean we're the only things made in god's image that's how i in all of creation so so we're infinitely valuable i feel that way so we we shouldn't yeah be cheering and it's like you said somebody breaks into your home they're trying do what you got to do, but just, hey, let's go. But I don't want to do it.
Yeah. Nobody should want to do it.
No. Like you, I remember I was taking a gun training from an uncle of mine who's like a legendary firearms instructor.
He was, worked with Jeff Cooper out in gun sight. Wow, really? Yeah, he's awesome.
And I remember him, my sister and my aunt and uncle, and I went with this other uncle and his wife to do this training. And he made us sit in a classroom for like a whole day.
And he drilled into us, what's the number one rule of gunfights? Be somewhere else. And then what's the second rule of gunfights have a gun

but he's like yeah if you're if you're paying attention like if you're aware and you know what's going on around you you should be you should have the ability and the awareness to never be in a position to ever have to do it i agree but bar some sort of awful twist of fate I wonder, you know, the calls for gun control, which are, you know, obviously cyclical, like every time there's some tragedy, some mass shooting, some of which do seem like they're in spite of the FBI, but I can't prove it. But anyway, just there's always like three or four days of the media getting hysterical about gun control, taking your guns away.

Those seem more half-hearted than they used to be. Maybe I'm being paranoid.
And I'm wondering if maybe technology, the convergence of AI and drone technology, isn't advancing to the point where the people in charge know it doesn't matter whether you have a gun anymore. I hadn't thought about that but I had noticed

like the fever pitch of hysteria

after a shooting over the last

almost like year

six months to a year. They kind of feel like they're just going through the motions with it in the media.
I kind of agree. It's just a fundraising deal for the dumb David Hogg or whatever.
These buffoons, media creations you know, on a pile of dead bodies.

It's like so grotesque.

But this doesn't seem real to me.

And I just wonder, are we at a point where like your AR is not actually a guarantee of

freedom at all?

Because like technology is going to give the state so much power that like it doesn't matter.

The drone stuff I find terrifying. Terrifying.
Why why especially the mass drones because you can't stop them yeah i talked to one uh a couple months ago i was talking to a seal a former seal about it um who thinks about this stuff a lot and i said so like how do you stop the drones he said get a shotgun and i said really yeah just shoot it okay what if there's like a thousand of them like i don't shock and i have doesn't hold a thousand rounds i i shoot the side by side yeah um two shells yeah yeah like they're you got you have to have a technological solution to it i don't i don't know how i is Joe Blow or you, just out minding our business. You're not defeating like a weaponized drone storm at all.
And I feel like Democrats, especially the ones who are all about gun control, know this because they'll say things like, oh, you think your AR is going to help you? We have nukes and cruise missiles. Your AR is not going to stop that.
I think there may be something to that.

But it's just my instinct.

I don't know.

But it is weird.

It is weird.

And I think if you want to understand what's actually going on,

watch the rhetoric.

Of course, never take it at face value.

It's a lie by definition.

The slogans are a lie.

But they do change,

and they change for a reason.

And so I'm just concerned about that. And I, as someone who's always like, you know, had guns and ammo at home.
Yeah. So there's an old quote from, I think it was JP Morgan that I've used.
It's kind of like my political motivation, finding North star. And it's that every man has two reasons for doing things, a good reason and real reason yeah so like on gun control the good reason that they always give and and i think that probably a large percentage of people who espouse it they they do intend well well these hurt people right i don't want to hurt people and they they don't think beyond like the second third order consequences but like it's it's a genuine heartfelt thing does awful things to people, and I don't want that, so we should get rid of it.
I understand where that's coming from. I don't agree with it.
But then that's the good reason. So what's the real reason? I think a lot of people putting that stuff out just don't want us to be free.
Well, they don't believe in human autonomy yeah obviously right so they they don't see other humans as human they see them as slaves you know i think it's pretty obvious that they see them as objects you know who are have no inherent rights no inherent dignity whose lives aren't really worth anything that's why they love abortion and they know, if you really saw people as creations of God who exist independently from you and your desires, then like there's a degree to which you can control people. But then beyond that, you can't.
You can't. Even your own children, you can't really control.
Can you? No. Right.
You can't. No, they come fully formed and you can like work 5% of the margins.
That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
And I think good parenting is in part recognizing that, you because you don't own them actually you are more responsible for them they are your children they're you know from your body but they're not you know they're human beings and i just think those are like foundational views that a lot of people in power just don't have no we're viewed as cogs yes especially the new kind of like managerial leftism yes they look at say, okay, we've got this fixed population of people and I can move this lever and I can move this lever and I'll twist this thing and then I can get those people to do what I want. We're really just inputs, things that can be tweaked according to them.
We're not people who have souls. Not eternal beings who have infinite value yes we're just things to be

manipulated so they can get what they want it's it's gross so last question it does feel like this is i think a lot of people felt this whether they said it out loud or not but this election was you know the last chance to to turn away from what was a certain future of enslavement um that's not an overstatement

who wins

like in five years what what's your best guess for where we are i'm not an optimist and it has nothing to do with politics yes i agree with you i i think this election was kind of a last chance yeah but it wasn't a guarantee yes Yes. And my worry is that our politicians are a function of the people.
John Adams, it was either John Adams or Franklin, said our system of government is wholly unsuited to an immoral people. We were a nation found on Christian principles by Christian men who put Christ and God as the foremost things in their

lives. And everything else was built around it.
Our government was built around it. The way we organized the states was built around it.
And it worked for a really long time until that foundation started to crumble. And I don't know when that started.
Was it the Industrial Revolution? Was it Vietnam and the druggy area.

I don't know.

But our moral fabric as a people is totally unrecognizable to someone who helped start the country.

And so my view is absent a true collective Christian revival where we collectively repent for what we've done as a nation? Because God cares about nations.

He cares about the fate of nations. He cares what nations do.
He blesses them and he curses them and he judges them and he lets them prosper. Our nation had a covenant with God.
It was obvious

why we were formed because we want to have a place where people- One nation under God. I mean,

they said it. They weren't hiding it.
Do you think that is like the moral nucleus of our society today? Because I don't. And so I don't see absent a true foundational change in us as a people collectively, I don't see how we ever turn the ship around.
And so I pray, obviously I pray for the president, I pray for mayors and our leaders our leaders even when i don't like them because that's what we're commanded to do and because uh god has put them in place either for our judgment or our blessing um our fate is not going to be sealed by the politicians we pick it's just not no and so that that's my worry going. Do you feel like, I mean, I do see around me just in my tiny little weird world, but people who I don't think have ever thought about God talking about God.
I read that Bible sales are the highest they've been in a long time. I feel something changing.
Something has changed. It feels like on election night, scales came off people's eyes.
It was almost, it was a weird thing. Suddenly people are just saying things that they weren't supposed to say.
You've got NFL players. You had like John Jones, UFC doing the Trump dance after finishing a dude.
words that people use and sentiments they espouse

were completely verboten and that that seems to have changed i completely agree there appears to be a spiritual aspect in hunger in people now that i find really really heartening but that it's like seeing the seedling sprout like i i want to see like the giant the giant hardwood. But of course it has to start with the seedling.
Of course it does. Do you see it in your world? Absolutely.
Without a doubt. So, I mean, that's something worth celebrating.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yep.
I appreciate you taking all this time well thank

you thank you thanks for listening to tucker carlson show if you enjoyed it you can go to

tucker carlson.com to see everything that we have made the complete library tucker carlson.com