RFK Jr: Teaming up With Trump, Pavel Durov’s Arrest, CIA, and the Fall of the Democrat Party

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Speaker 2 We hope to see you there. It'll be in cities all across the country starting next week.
But first, our interview with Bobby Kennedy Jr., his first since endorsing Donald Trump on Friday. Here it is.

Speaker 2 So people were shocked. I know a lot of people you know well were shocked when you endorsed Trump.

Speaker 2 I was not shocked because for all the areas where you disagree on specific issues, there's a consistent theme that I've noticed in both of your lives, which is you've both spent the majority of your life, well, in your case, your whole life in the American ruling class, and both of you decided that it was corrupt and that you were going to say so out loud at great risk,

Speaker 2 at great risk to both of you. And so it was probably just a matter of time before you aligned in some way.
Is that how you see it?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I think there's been a bunch of realignments, political realignments, about four or five throughout American history.

Speaker 3 And I think we're going through one right now with the Democratic Party and with both political parties really changing in this very dramatic way. And you and I talked

Speaker 3 earlier about.

Speaker 3 the transformation of the Republican Party into the party of environmentalism.

Speaker 3 And, you know, the Democratic Party has one now, one environmental issue, which is this carbon orthodoxy,

Speaker 3 which ends up benefiting the oil companies and BlackRock and Goldman Sachs with offshore wind and carbon capture, $100 billion carbon capture projects,

Speaker 3 which is part of just the strip mining of the middle class. And it's the only issue you can talk about in the Democratic Party.

Speaker 3 I got into the environmental movement to do habitat protection, to do wildlife conservation,

Speaker 3 to get toxics out of our kids.

Speaker 3 And none of these these are issues that

Speaker 3 the party itself. Democrats care about them, but the party itself doesn't.

Speaker 3 There's been these big, profound realignments. And it's not only on that issue.
It's really the, you know, the domination of

Speaker 3 this corrupt merger of state and corporate power that is happening in Washington, D.C. now,

Speaker 3 where our democracy has really been subverted by the industries that have taken over the regulatory agencies and they become transformed them into sock puppets for corporate profit taking and uh and basically wholly owned subsidiaries of the industries they're disposed to regulate and the democrats for a variety of reasons and i watched it happen over many many years

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 have uh have clung to

Speaker 3 this illusion of these democratic institutions that they're still democratic. And they have a a belief we all have the capacity to judge ourselves on our intentions rather than our actions yes right

Speaker 3 and i've been there

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 and the democratic party judges itself it sees itself my friends who are democrats see themselves as part of the the good guys the white hats and that

Speaker 3 you know, it's kind of, they're like the good guys who are in Fort Apache, surrounded by the, you know, the

Speaker 3 forces of barbarism that are about to storm the gate. And they're the only ones, the only way to keep it at bay is to elect a president who has dementia.

Speaker 3 And because you're voting for the apparatus and you're not voting for, you know, even

Speaker 3 to handpick a presidential candidate without any elections

Speaker 3 to basically get rid of democracy in order to save it. And handpick a candidate who in 40 days now has not given a single interview on any media outlet.

Speaker 3 And I think about when my uncle and father would think about that, you know, they prided themselves on

Speaker 3 on being able to go

Speaker 3 on debate. It was the centerpiece, you know, to the

Speaker 3 whole, you know, function of democracy was to anneal ideas in the furnace of debate and

Speaker 3 have them rise up in the marketplace of ideas.

Speaker 3 And the idea that, you know, and we had this British tradition of Churchill and the others and the House of Commons, you know, and

Speaker 3 being able to defend their policies and being forced to defend their policies articulately eloquently.

Speaker 3 And, you know, my uncle and father just thought, we should, ideas are important and we should be able to defend them. And if you can't defend them, there's something wrong with you.
Yes.

Speaker 3 And, you know, why?

Speaker 3 So we have

Speaker 3 a

Speaker 3 presidential candidate that was selected by the Democratic Party who can't do that.

Speaker 3 And, you know, one of the things that my uncle and father will always think about is: how do we look to the rest of the world?

Speaker 3 Right?

Speaker 3 They were conscious that America was the template for democracy when we created a modern democracy in 1789 or 1791, when the Bill of Rights was ratified,

Speaker 3 we were the only democracy on earth. By 1865,

Speaker 3 during the end of the Civil War, there were five, and they were all modeled on America. And by the time my uncle took office, it was about 150, and by the time, by the end of the 60s, there's 190.

Speaker 3 They're all based on the American model.

Speaker 3 And, you know, we very much were

Speaker 3 the exemplary nation. We were the example of democracy around the globe.

Speaker 3 And people, and they were very conscious, they were, you know, they were embarrassed at first by the civil rights movement because they said, what is the rest of the world going to think about it?

Speaker 3 And then they realized, well, we better correct

Speaker 3 the problem. Yeah.
Because, but

Speaker 3 everything that they did, they were conscious that they were being watched.

Speaker 3 What is the rest of the world think of American democracy right now? That, you know, we have in one party

Speaker 3 selected a man with dementia

Speaker 3 to lead the free world and then turned around and picked a person, a woman who cannot give an interview. She cannot defend American, her vision or America's record in the world.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 She gave this, you know, Vice President Harris gave this speech at the convention

Speaker 3 that was written by neocons. And they had CIA directors talking at this, at the Democratic Convention, military people talking at the Democratic Convention.

Speaker 3 My father and my uncle were the party of anti-war.

Speaker 3 My uncle was asked by his best friend, Ben Bradley, one of his two best friends who ran the Washington Post,

Speaker 3 what do you want on your gravestone, your epitaph?

Speaker 3 And my uncle said immediately he kept the peace.

Speaker 3 He said the primary job of a president of the united states was to keep the country out of war he said he didn't want children in africa and latin america and asia when they heard about the united states of america to think of a man with a gun he wanted them to think of a peace corps volunteer and the alliance for progress and usaid

Speaker 3 which were programs that he created to build the middle class, to end run the oligarchs, end run the military juntas that used to receive U.S. aid,

Speaker 3 and instead go directly to the poor and build institutions, education and health, and

Speaker 3 all of the institutions of democracy to continue to model it for the rest of the world and live up to what we're supposed to be doing,

Speaker 3 which is to encourage the growth of

Speaker 3 democratic rule. So now

Speaker 3 you have a, you know, we have a system that's produced

Speaker 3 people who, you know, a candidate in

Speaker 3 the the Democratic Party

Speaker 3 who can't even defend America's record in the world and who is barreling this kind of war-mongering, you know, military domination ideology that's gotten us in such trouble.

Speaker 3 It's caused a calamity in our country.

Speaker 3 It's gutted the middle class. It's made us a pariah around the globe.
It's created. It led to the rise of bricks.

Speaker 3 It's leading to the rise of totalitarianism all over the world.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I'd say this finally, that

Speaker 3 if you really look at what's happening in the Democratic Party today,

Speaker 3 it's a party that the word demos in Greek means people,

Speaker 3 but it's a party that's lost faith in the people. It's a party that needs

Speaker 3 ironclad control. So they didn't trust anybody during, to have a real election.
They got rid of the primaries because they didn't trust the people.

Speaker 3 They then picked, hand-picked Vice President Harris with no election, no even pretense of election, because they didn't trust the people.

Speaker 3 And, you know, you have, and they're, they're, the party now of censorship.

Speaker 2 And how can you have a democracy with censorship?

Speaker 3 You cannot have a democracy.

Speaker 3 They're absolutely incompatible. And everybody knew that everybody, you know, you and I were raised reading Orwell and Alice Huxley and,

Speaker 3 Robert Heinlein and Alexander Solzhenitsyn and

Speaker 3 all of these other books that were part of classical literature that was taught in every American classroom. It said the first step to totalitarianism is always, it begins with censorship.

Speaker 3 It's the first step down that slippery slope. And there's no time that we look back in history and say the people who are censoring speech were the good guys.

Speaker 3 They're always the bad guys because we knew, you know, we know that they're the guys who are going to end up cracking the whip on us all and, you know, being

Speaker 3 our overlords. And so, and then, you know, the whole thing about, like you and I

Speaker 3 talked about that clip of

Speaker 3 Tim Waltz,

Speaker 3 Governor Waltz saying that

Speaker 3 Government should be the ultimate arbiter of what is protected speech and what is not. You know, he said if something that the First Amendment does not protect,

Speaker 3 misinformation and disinformation, but it does. The First Amendment was written to protect not only true speech, but false speech.
And speech and not,

Speaker 3 it wasn't there and it's unnecessary to protect the kind of speech that everybody wants to hear. It's there to protect the kind of speech that nobody wants to hear.
Right.

Speaker 2 And especially speech that is critical of the people in charge.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 2 And so in their current formulation, misinformation is defined as any speech that criticizes the job that they're doing.

Speaker 2 So with that in mind, you see the Biden administration encouraging France, Macron, to arrest the owner and founder of Telegram, Pavel Durov, who's now, as right now, in a French prison.

Speaker 2 That seems like, I mean, that's the hallmark of dictatorship, it sounds to me.

Speaker 3 Yeah, well, you know,

Speaker 3 we've lost Europe.

Speaker 3 Europe is now, and does not have free speech you know look what's happened to elon musk and you're elon musk should be the hero of the democratic party the old democratic party he wouldn't be the hero somehow he became a villain because he was actually the only the only platform that would allow us free speech on his platform And he's now become a villain because of it, because the Democratic Party does not believe in the people.

Speaker 3 If you don't believe in free speech, it means because you don't trust the people. You don't trust them to

Speaker 3 figure it out on their own, you know, to

Speaker 3 have information on which they can base their ideas and their notions and their beliefs. And their votes.
And their votes. And that the government

Speaker 3 has to protect them from dangerous information, from things that might put bad ideas into their heads. And it's very patronizing, but it's also very

Speaker 3 manipulative and conniving. And really, it's exactly the opposite of democracy and you will not find a single Democrat

Speaker 3 who will um who will criticize it it's really astonishing to me because

Speaker 3 the Democrats always like you know when I endorsed Trump the big you know the big

Speaker 3 kind of the the the fulcrum of the centerpiece of the text of hatred that I got back, this kind of seething anger on so many Democrats was, well, look what he did on January 6th.

Speaker 3 Okay, January 6th was a bad day in American history. And what President Trump did there, in my view, was

Speaker 3 very bad.

Speaker 3 It was reprehensible.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 was the Republic really at risk?

Speaker 3 You know, we have the U.S. military.
We have the National Guard.

Speaker 3 They have all the institutions. We have Congress.
We have

Speaker 3 all these institutions of government, and there was a mob of people, most of them who probably didn't know what was happening, some of whom were very badly intentioned and were breaking the law.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 it wasn't a threat to the Republic. What is a threat, and this is what you cannot explain to a Democrat now, and it's astonishing to me,

Speaker 3 what is a threat is when the government is censoring your speech. political speech.
And, you know, I just won Tucker last week.

Speaker 2 But that was the centerpiece of democratic ideology: free speech.

Speaker 3 Exactly. I mean, the word liberal means free speech.
That's where it comes from.

Speaker 2 Oh, because that must be weird for you, being named Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
and spending your entire life in this world. Like, what?

Speaker 3 What's that like?

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 let me just say this.

Speaker 3 I won a lawsuit.

Speaker 3 I won

Speaker 3 a new judgment. And my lawsuit, Kennedy versus Biden, last week.

Speaker 3 And Kennedy versus Biden was part of two lawsuits that were brought, one by the Attorney Generals of Missouri and Louisiana, and the other by me for the same issues, which was the Biden administration's censorship of speech.

Speaker 3 And so there's a series of decisions. There's a 155-page decision.
The Attorney General's case went up to the Supreme Court and was rejected because

Speaker 3 the Supreme Court found that those attorney generals didn't have standing to sue because they weren't directly harmed.

Speaker 3 My case this week, the federal Judge Doty said Kennedy does have a standing to sue.

Speaker 3 And he reinforced,

Speaker 3 reissued his injunction against the Biden administration. So I have

Speaker 3 an injunction right now against the Biden White House to enjoin them from censoring me, which they've been doing.

Speaker 3 The 155-page decision by Judge Nodi details everything that happened.

Speaker 3 37 hours after he took the oath of office, President Biden's White House opened up a portal for the FBI to begin to have access to social media posts on all the different social media sites.

Speaker 3 And the FBI then invited in the CIA,

Speaker 3 the DHS,

Speaker 3 the IRS,

Speaker 3 and CISA. CISA is this new agency that is the center of the censorship industrial complex that is in charge of making sure Americans don't hear things that their government doesn't want them to hear.

Speaker 3 And those agencies and other agencies, including the health agencies like CDC, were given access to go into the social media sites and change posts and

Speaker 3 slow walk things and

Speaker 3 shadow ban

Speaker 3 posts. It was part of that effort.
And they removed my Instagram account. I had almost a million followers.

Speaker 3 They say it was for misinformation, but they could not point to a single post that I ever made. That was factually erroneous.
And they actually

Speaker 3 Facebook pushed back in the email chain. You can see Facebook pushing back at the White House and saying,

Speaker 3 wait a minute, he's not.

Speaker 3 This isn't misinformation.

Speaker 3 This is not factually erroneous. What they're saying is actually true.

Speaker 3 And they had to invent a new word, which is called malinformation, which is information that is factually true, but nevertheless inconvenient for the government.

Speaker 3 And that became disinformation, misinformation, and malinformation. That's what that is.
So everybody, and

Speaker 2 isn't that illegal?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And the emails show that Facebook. the people said this these they were saying about the white house in their private emails with each other these people are cynical, you know, terrible people.

Speaker 3 And they knew what they were doing was breaking the law, but they were under tremendous pressure.

Speaker 3 Facebook has all these deals with the government, and, you know, as do all the media companies, with the intelligence agencies and elsewhere. Plus,

Speaker 3 the White House was

Speaker 3 overtly telling them

Speaker 3 that they were going to,

Speaker 3 if they didn't comply, that their Section 230 immunity was in jeopardy. So Section 230 immunity is the, you know, is, is,

Speaker 3 just so that your listeners know what it is,

Speaker 3 I used to write for the New York Times regularly.

Speaker 3 Every time I wrote lawyer, an article, lawyers would call me and fact check everything in that article. Because if I wrote something that was defamatory in that article

Speaker 3 and somebody was defamed, that person could sue me, but they could also sue the New York Times.

Speaker 3 So the social media site said, we cannot hire lawyers to look at every post and call the people and check on it

Speaker 3 on Facebook or Instagram. So if this industry is going to function, we need to be able to not be liable for what is published on our site.

Speaker 3 And that is called Section 230 of the Communications Act.

Speaker 3 Congress said, if you are just a platform, a mere platform, that

Speaker 3 for other people to publish, like Facebook is, like Instagram, like Twitter or X,

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 you're immune. Nobody can sue you.
They can sue the person who wrote the post, but they can't sue Facebook. So

Speaker 3 Mark Zuckerberg said, if they take away our Facebook, our Section 230 immunity, it is existential, meaning we will no longer exist

Speaker 3 and so they were terrified because congress was actually considering removing section 230 immunity and the white house was telling them if you don't censor our political critics

Speaker 3 we're going to take away your section 230 immunity if president trump did that

Speaker 3 the democrats would go berserk well that's criminal behavior anyone who does that is a criminal right they're violating the the the first amendment of the constitution for starters

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so that's what happened. And,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 my idea is that if somebody does something bad, it shouldn't matter whether they're Democrat or Republican.

Speaker 3 It is, you know, we should all be going after them and we should be going after them as a society.

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Speaker 2 What I don't understand, and it is baffling to me having known a lot of Democrats, but you've been in that world your whole life, like how do they not see that?

Speaker 2 How do people who say they believe in civil liberties suddenly think it's okay for the government to prosecute its political opponents and silence them how do they think that

Speaker 3 you know to me it's a it's a i've i've thought a lot about that i bet and it's about um it's about tribalism

Speaker 3 to you know that people put themselves in these tribal categories and and we're hardwired for tribalism that's why orthodoxies are so popular that you know people get sucked into various kind of orthodoxies, whether it's ideological orthodoxy or religious orthodoxies.

Speaker 3 And that impulse is really, it's not a religious impulse. It's a biological impulse.

Speaker 3 And it's an impulse that's hardwired in us from the 20,000 generations we've spent wandering the African savannah and tiny little groups that were warring each other, where there was always a male leader.

Speaker 3 where

Speaker 3 the women were traded as chattels because you couldn't marry your sister. So you knew from the beginning she was going to be a trade good

Speaker 3 and you were going to trade her for somebody else. She had no power.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 where you all had to ascribe to an orthodoxy and see no problems with people who were within your little, your in-group

Speaker 3 and people who are outside were subhuman and they could be killed. And if they made a mistake, you know, you wanted to talk about it.
Everybody would talk about it.

Speaker 3 We're all hardwired that way.

Speaker 3 because that's where our you know our our wiring comes from and when somebody gets subsumed in an orthodoxy,

Speaker 3 it's very, very difficult to unravel. And there are all kinds of psychiatric treadises about how do you deprogram somebody? You know, how do you

Speaker 3 how do you talk somebody out of an orthodoxy?

Speaker 3 And, you know, what I, the little that I know about it is that if you challenge them directly, you challenge their belief, it pours concrete on it and it makes them less

Speaker 3 able to move off that.

Speaker 3 They get very defensive. And that, you know, the way to approach them, there are ways to approach them.

Speaker 3 There's deprogramming protocols and they usually include a lot of Socratic method of asking them questions about their belief.

Speaker 3 But it's a one-on-one,

Speaker 3 it's a one-on-one project enterprise. And it's not something that you can do with the whole Democratic Party overnight.
Something has to happen that's going to make this, you know, this

Speaker 3 tribal thinking unravel because it's really destroying our country. And the polarization, which is happening on both sides,

Speaker 3 is put on steroids by these social media algorithms that

Speaker 3 reward people

Speaker 3 for staying on the site as long as possible. So the algorithm, all the algorithm knows is I've got to keep

Speaker 3 as many eyeballs on the site as possible. It turns out that the way people stay on the site is if you fortify their existing opinions,

Speaker 3 if you feed them, if you feed them information that

Speaker 3 consolidates their worldview.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, we have this problem now where it's not just polarization like the Civil War, but it's polarization on steroids because you've got machines that are that are manipulating us to hate each other more every single day.

Speaker 2 So knowing all this as you do and have for a long time,

Speaker 2 the most radical step you can make if you're a Democrat is endorsing Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 So there are political calculations involved, there are ideological calculations, but there are also, of course, personal calculations.

Speaker 2 So you know, once you do that, you've burned your boats. Like that's it.
You're not going back to wherever you were 10 years ago.

Speaker 2 How hard a decision was that for you personally?

Speaker 3 It was a very good, it was an obvious decision for me.

Speaker 3 It should have been, but it was a very, very difficult decision. And we had, you know, I have a very, very good team around me.
And

Speaker 3 I was most worried about my wife,

Speaker 3 who was

Speaker 3 about Cheryl, who, you know,

Speaker 3 who,

Speaker 3 you know, was not comfortable with it. And she's a, you know, a lifelong Democrat.
She comes from, not the aristocracy. She comes from a very, you know,

Speaker 3 I would say poor family in North Florida, but she found her way through

Speaker 3 idealism to the Democratic Party and

Speaker 3 she shares a lot of those values.

Speaker 3 And her industry is very, very much

Speaker 3 aligned with the Democratic Party probably more than any industry in our country and more than any town in our country. So this

Speaker 3 for me was likely to have huge impacts on her. And ultimately, if she had told me,

Speaker 3 you can't do this, I wouldn't have done it.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I'm very grateful

Speaker 3 that she overcame, she allowed me to do it. She was not embracing it, but she said, I understand why you have to do this.
And

Speaker 3 her, and we had a four-day meeting up in Hyannisport in my home where kind of everybody, my family members, my kids.

Speaker 3 many other people, Tony Robbins

Speaker 3 attended remotely and a number number of other kind of spiritual leaders,

Speaker 3 just people who cared deeply about our country,

Speaker 3 chimed in and made case on both sides. People from the

Speaker 3 campaign organization did.

Speaker 3 But here was the calculus that ultimately was persuasive for me.

Speaker 3 If I, all of our internal pro polling showed from the outset that if I stayed in the Democratic Party, I was going to get

Speaker 3 Vice President Harris elected. 57 to 60%

Speaker 3 and even more, sometimes up to 66%

Speaker 3 of my voters,

Speaker 3 my followers said that if I withdrew from the election, they were going to vote for Trump, which is ironic, by the way, Tucker, because

Speaker 3 President Trump and the RNC did nothing to prevent me from being on the ballots.

Speaker 3 They didn't have a big

Speaker 3 major organization sending

Speaker 3 private eyes out.

Speaker 3 The Democratic Party was interviewing literally everybody I've ever met in 70 years to collect dirt on me. I got a call.

Speaker 2 They've been doing that, I know for a fact, for over a year, as you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and they were open about it. This is what we're going to do.

Speaker 3 They put a person in charge of it named Liz Smith, who's, you know,

Speaker 3 who's that's the kind of person she is. This is what she does.
She does negative research on people and tries to characterize them.

Speaker 2 Liz Smith Elliott Spitzer's old girlfriend.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 And she was in charge of that team. And then there was other people as well.
Mary Beth Cahill had been my uncle, Teddy's chief of staff, who I knew. And Liz Smith was in charge of the,

Speaker 3 you know, the negative research, or what they call negative research, euphemistically.

Speaker 3 And I got calls from, you know, for example, a guy that I met at an AA meeting 40 years ago. and he received a call.

Speaker 3 Most of my family members received calls on contacts, either texts or telephone calls from people who said, I'm doing intelligence for the DNC, and, you know, we'd like to

Speaker 3 talk to you about Robert Kennedy and if you have any negative information about him. So I was getting that.

Speaker 2 What could possibly be the justification for that?

Speaker 3 Well, they didn't want me running. And that's the thing is it's not Democratic.
It wasn't, you know.

Speaker 2 That's such a mafia tactic. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So, I mean, but the point is,

Speaker 3 it was weird. It was, it was not smart because I was actually helping the Democrats.

Speaker 3 And if they just let me stay in and they didn't run this campaign against me, they probably would win this election.

Speaker 3 And because I was hurting Trump, oddly, Trump didn't do anything about it. He's, you know, he was kind of,

Speaker 3 he made a couple of statements about me that I was a communist, et cetera, but they were sort of good natured, you know, the stuff that you're like, okay, that's okay.

Speaker 3 They weren't like calling my old girlfriend saying, you know,

Speaker 3 what did he do? Or, you know,

Speaker 3 whatever they were asking him.

Speaker 3 So, um,

Speaker 3 but the DNC was up to that.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 were you shocked by that?

Speaker 3 Was I shocked?

Speaker 3 I don't know. I mean, I was, I'm,

Speaker 3 I feel like I'm,

Speaker 3 I'm in a place now where nothing surprises me. I bet you are.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 but, um,

Speaker 3 I don't know. I mean,

Speaker 3 anyway, so they're going to drop all that stuff now, obviously, right?

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 3 They're going to get rid of Liz Smith and put her on some other project. I don't know.
I just, you sort of wonder how does Liz Smith live with herself?

Speaker 2 I mean, that's so repulsive. Like, how does she justify that to herself? I have to, I mean, and I'm mad or she's not stupid, but that is disgusting.
No,

Speaker 2 I mean, you've lived a life famously, and if you have a team of researchers digging into it.

Speaker 3 And I have not led a careful life, by the way.

Speaker 3 I know. I said, you know, my first,

Speaker 3 my first, during my announcement speech, I said, you know, I had told my wife this, told Cheryl this a couple of days before, I said, I have so many skeletons in my closet that if they could vote, I could run for king of the world.

Speaker 3 I know stuff's going to come out about me because I led, let me put it, a colorful life. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, people have all kinds of stories about me. But so I was, I'm ready for, you know, I'm ready for, I listen, I've never done anything criminal in terms of like

Speaker 3 stealing money or self-enrichment. I did a lot of stupid stuff and a lot of.

Speaker 2 Have you gotten rich off pointless foreign wars?

Speaker 3 No, I have not done that yet. Oh, you haven't.

Speaker 2 Okay. You haven't forced people to inject

Speaker 3 substances in their bodies. Okay.
No, I've not never done any of that. But anyway, so

Speaker 3 it became clear to me that

Speaker 3 If Kamala got elected, the issues that I cared about, which is ending the foreign wars,

Speaker 3 you know, the unjust wars, immoral wars, the wars of choice like Ukraine,

Speaker 3 stopping the censorship, which I think is existential for our democracy, and then protecting children from this extraordinary exploding chronic disease epidemic.

Speaker 3 Those are the three reasons that got me into the campaign. That's why I ran for president.
Those are three reasons.

Speaker 3 And if she got elected, I'm 70 years old, that eight years from now, our kids are going to be lost. And that, and if she's president for eight years, my chance to do anything about it would be gone.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 3 And that, and then I got a contact from Callie Means, who you know well. You've, you know, made

Speaker 3 one of the best shows

Speaker 3 ever put on TV, ever aired, was your interview with Callie and his wife. Casey and Callie, for those of you who haven't seen the show,

Speaker 3 his show

Speaker 3 is an expert,

Speaker 3 genius, brilliant, articulate, eloquent, and incredibly encyclopedic knowledge on the food system and what is corrupting it, what is causing the corruption at FDA,

Speaker 3 at USDA, that the capture of those agencies by the processed food industry, by the chemical industry, by the pharmaceutical industry.

Speaker 3 that actually profit on sick children. One of the things that Callie says,

Speaker 3 there is nothing more profitable in our society today than a sick child because

Speaker 3 all of these entities are making money on them. The insurance companies, the hospitals, the medical cartel, the pharmaceutical companies have lifetime annuities.

Speaker 3 I mean, any child that, and the earlier that kid is sick, they don't want to kill him.

Speaker 3 They want him sick for the rest of their lives. And we have now a whole generation when my uncle was president.

Speaker 3 6% of Americans have chronic disease today at 60%.

Speaker 3 When my uncle was president, do you know what the

Speaker 3 cost, the annual cost of treating chronic disease was in this country?

Speaker 3 Zero.

Speaker 3 There weren't even any drugs invented for it. Zero.

Speaker 3 Today it's about $4.3 trillion.

Speaker 3 When your uncle was president, none of it is necessary.

Speaker 2 What was the autism rate in 1960? Do we know?

Speaker 3 In 1960, the autism rate,

Speaker 3 there's about four or five studies, and

Speaker 3 the highest rate, say about one in 2500 one in 1500 one in 2500 one in ten thousand

Speaker 3 oh um

Speaker 3 so that you know it was it was somewhere between one in 1500 and one in 10 000.

Speaker 3 today it's one in every 34 kids according to the cdc and in some states like california i think maybe utah and new jersey one in 22 one in 22 kids and you know these kids should be healthy these kids should be our our highest performing kids.

Speaker 3 And they instead are,

Speaker 3 you know, have this extraordinary disability that's going to keep them dependent.

Speaker 3 And not,

Speaker 3 you know, a lot of these, with your full-blown autism, you know, it's a non-verbal, non-toilet trained, head-banging, stimming, toe walking.

Speaker 3 These are kids that will never throw a baseball. They'll never graduate high school.
They'll never go out, take a girl on a date.

Speaker 3 They'll never use the toilet alone.

Speaker 3 They'll never write a play. They'll never write a poem.
They'll never vote. Never have children.
Never pay taxes.

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Speaker 2 So that just seems like such an emergency.

Speaker 3 For me, yeah, for me, like, if I could save one of these kids, it would be worth giving my life for. I'm 70 years old.
To save one kid at birth, it would be worth dying for.

Speaker 3 And to the opportunity and the need

Speaker 3 for me to save all of these kids,

Speaker 3 I would do anything for.

Speaker 3 I would literally do anything for her.

Speaker 2 We were talking at breakfast. I'm sure your perception is different because we're talking about you, but

Speaker 2 for 15 years anyway, there was not a single story about you that didn't dismiss you as a dangerous crackpot for questioning.

Speaker 2 why autism is much more common than it once was, much more, I mean, exponentially more common. And you've written a lot about this and you were attacked.
I don't see those attacks very much anymore.

Speaker 3 Well, they're still in the mainstream media. That's still part of the,

Speaker 3 you know, the litany of

Speaker 3 my crimes.

Speaker 3 But, you know, anybody who uses their hand, any of, and they, and that's one of the reasons they won't let me speak on the media. I mean, when, when Ross Perot ran, he, he was running for 10 months.

Speaker 3 He was on mainstream media 34 times interviews.

Speaker 3 And you remember him. He was on, it seemed like he was on Larry King every week.
Of course.

Speaker 3 But, and i got in 16 months i had two live interviews on all of those networks abc nbc cbs cnn msnbc2

Speaker 3 and i and the

Speaker 3 and uh you know they're just basically mouthpieces now for the dnc

Speaker 3 And there was this obligatory litany of defamations and pejoratives that were used to describe me anytime

Speaker 3 my name was mentioned, you know, that I was not a crackpot.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it's like a super villain. So, and I'm not complaining because that's, that's just, you know, I knew what I was getting into.

Speaker 3 But anyway, the idea

Speaker 3 that,

Speaker 3 you know, I had these meetings with President Trump and they were partly because of you. You know, you were the one who, Callie Means called me about,

Speaker 3 I'd say three hours after President Trump was shot. Callie Means called, although it doesn't seem possible because,

Speaker 3 but I think it was only three hours after his shooting.

Speaker 2 It was Saturday night.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Saturday night.

Speaker 3 And Callie Means said to me,

Speaker 3 you know, he told me, Callie had been advising me for a long time and my campaign. He told me that night, I've also been,

Speaker 3 I've been advising President Trump,

Speaker 3 which delighted me because I thought, oh my gosh, there's another candidate beside me that is listening to the truth.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he said that

Speaker 3 there was interest in the Trump campaign by the president,

Speaker 3 of including me. At the end,

Speaker 3 he talked about vice president,

Speaker 3 which I wasn't interested in.

Speaker 3 He said, you know, would you be interested in talking with

Speaker 3 President Trump?

Speaker 3 And I said, I don't think so. And then, and part of this was I just thought it was a non-start.
It was Cheryl.

Speaker 3 And I called Cheryl up and she

Speaker 3 said to me,

Speaker 3 you should hear them out.

Speaker 3 And I immediately called Callie. I texted Callie back and said, I'm interested.

Speaker 3 And then I got a text from you.

Speaker 3 And you and I have each other's cell phones. And you had an unknown cell phone number, which you had linked me into which was President Trump's number and you said you know he's waiting for your call

Speaker 3 and so I called him that night I had a great conversation with him and then

Speaker 3 he and he asked well we decided to talk

Speaker 3 and I met him the next day he was at that point at Bedminister which is his golf course and home in New Jersey and he had he had driven there from Butler where he had been shot and then I went to,

Speaker 3 and so I flew out to Minneapolis the next day.

Speaker 3 And I had a

Speaker 3 probably a two-hour meeting with him and Amaryllis, who's my daughter-in-law, who is running my campaign, the smartest person I've ever met,

Speaker 3 and Cheryl and Susie Wiles.

Speaker 3 And it was a really

Speaker 3 interesting meeting because he was so open

Speaker 3 about,

Speaker 3 first of all,

Speaker 3 not liking the neocons.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I never imagined that because I, you know, for me, he was the guy who brought John Bolton and Mike Pompeo into office. And,

Speaker 3 you know, but he was

Speaker 3 really

Speaker 3 disillusioned with them, to say the least, you know.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, he was he was deeply interested and well-informed

Speaker 3 as he is on any, you know, as much as he is on any subject

Speaker 3 about

Speaker 3 what's happening to our kids, chronic disease.

Speaker 3 And then he was absolutely adamant about stopping the censorship and, you know, and making sure that we had free speech. And so we talked a little then and

Speaker 3 I didn't really come to any, you know, talked about the possibility of working together. After that,

Speaker 3 but then we

Speaker 3 put it on hold. They wanted me to do something at the convention.
I said, no, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 we still, at that point, there was still a chance that I could get into the debate.

Speaker 3 That chance was diminishing. And because I was not allowed on any media,

Speaker 3 And because,

Speaker 3 you know, my really, my only chance of winning the election, I believe I would have won if I had gotten on the debate stage, But my only chance was to get on the debate stage. And it was that was that

Speaker 3 possibility was

Speaker 3 vanishing.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 so I was looking at kind of my options.

Speaker 3 I then contacted Harris's campaign because I thought I should talk to them and see if they're interested in any of these issues, which I suspected they were not because

Speaker 3 Gamblin was still an empty, you know, an empty slate.

Speaker 3 Kamala, excuse me, was an empty slate.

Speaker 2 She's pronounced it both ways herself, so it's okay.

Speaker 3 I want to respect people and give them, you know.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I reached out to her.

Speaker 3 And I reached out to a number of people, including some relatives of mine who are very, very close

Speaker 3 to her, personally, and to the Democratic Party.

Speaker 3 And they just said, that's a nonsort you there's no way in the world that she's going to talk to you and they said we can we can get you a meeting with a low-level campaign official

Speaker 3 and i said um okay

Speaker 2 i'm i'm not interested in that why wouldn't it's it's interesting why wouldn't comala harris meet with you

Speaker 3 maybe the same reason that she hasn't given an interview You know, I think it seems to me that there's a lot of handlers involved.

Speaker 3 And that, and, you know, even when you talk to Democrats about,

Speaker 3 you know, do you really think it's a good idea to be electing somebody who cannot give an interview?

Speaker 3 They say, well, you're not electing her. You're electing the people around her.
You're electing the apparatus. And the apparatus, but the apparatus, an apparatus I don't have any faith in.

Speaker 3 It's an apparatus that are neocons like, you know, like

Speaker 3 Anthony Blinken. and

Speaker 3 who are you know running us right up into a world war

Speaker 3 and they're people who you know who mastermind the censorship from inside the white house that's the apparatus that they want to reelect and to me that's an apparatus that has no these are the people who are censoring me here's the people who try to throw me out of the party who canceled the primaries

Speaker 3 that's the apparatus you know if it was a democrat who said i can think on my own

Speaker 3 I understand what this country is supposed to look like. I understand what democracy is supposed to look like.

Speaker 3 And I, you know, and I think that's great. Let's do that.

Speaker 2 But it's just, it's strange from her perspective. First of all, electing an apparatus is not how democracy works.
That's an oligarchy, just in point of fact.

Speaker 2 But as a political calculation, your presence in the race running third party hurt Trump. No one disputes that.
The polling's really clear on that. So if you're the Harris campaign,

Speaker 2 kind of a win, right? To get some alignment with you.

Speaker 3 Even human curiosity you'd think would compel her to want to meet with you like take a meeting like why do you care but she wouldn't even talk to you I think that's I think it's very weird it's weird but not I mean I can't stress this not not being able to give an interview I mean

Speaker 3 your your whole life is in public life that's what you do that is the currency

Speaker 3 I give I give

Speaker 3 You know, this day is a really silly day because I'm doing one interview with you. On a typical day, I do about seven or eight interviews some days 10 or 12.

Speaker 3 and i do that every day and i've done that for 16 months i if anybody who wants to i mean we have a list now 4 000 people want to interview me but we're i'm interviewing as many people as possible so i want to get my voice out my vision out my concerns out

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 i It's incomprehensible to me

Speaker 3 that you would be in public life. And President Trump does the same thing.
He's not scared of an interview. No, he likes to.
With Theo Vaughan. Yeah.
He's on you. He's done, he does anybody.

Speaker 3 He does people who don't agree with him.

Speaker 3 He's not censoring you. No.

Speaker 3 He's doing, you know, he's talking to reporters who write

Speaker 3 crappy articles about him all the time, you know, from

Speaker 3 New York Magazine.

Speaker 2 Maggie Haberman at the New York Times.

Speaker 3 New York, Maggie Haberman has never written a nice word about Donald Trump. And he talks to her, how often? A lot.
Yeah, a lot. So,

Speaker 3 you know, it's, and,

Speaker 3 you know, my uncle Teddy,

Speaker 3 who was exactly opposite of Ronald Reagan,

Speaker 3 ideologically, and he ran against Carter. Yeah.
Teddy did. And Carter and he had an antipathy toward each other that was almost, you know, like nothing I'd ever seen.

Speaker 3 Teddy really, Teddy didn't hate people, but

Speaker 3 he really, I would say, loathed Carter. He just had, he had complete disdain for him.
And I, and he then he liked Reagan.

Speaker 3 And because I was more ideologically aligned at that point,

Speaker 3 I was, I'd say to him, you know, why do you like Reagan? And he said, because

Speaker 3 even though I don't agree with anything he said, he was able to invigorate our country. He was able to inspire people.
He got people

Speaker 3 excited about his vision and proud to be Americans.

Speaker 3 And that is one of the functions of a president. It's

Speaker 3 to explain to us why we should be proud of each other and why we're part of a community and why our country is great.

Speaker 3 you know, what our future is going to look like and get us and, you know, inspire all of us with that vision. And that is what a real leader does.

Speaker 3 How in the world can you do that if you cannot give an interview

Speaker 3 to

Speaker 3 a news organization? To a friendly news organization. To a friendly news.
They can't even do a setup interview in 40 days.

Speaker 3 I saw the only interview she did that was unscripted was when she got off a plane. I think it was at Andrews Air Force Base and

Speaker 3 there was a reporter waiting there and that, you know, with one question.

Speaker 3 When are you going to do an interview? And she said, I've told my team that to try to get one done

Speaker 3 before September. This was the third of August.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I'm doing, you know, seven or eight interviews a day.

Speaker 2 Tells you a lot.

Speaker 3 And I'm, but I'm not, and I'm not, you know, blowing my own horn or anything. I'm just saying that's what you do if you're in public life.

Speaker 3 And what's the point of being in public life if you don't want to promote your vision,

Speaker 3 if you don't want to empower people? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, that, I mean, so

Speaker 2 it,

Speaker 2 I'm sure this is a sensitive subject, but I can't help but notice that you ran for 15 months with no secret service protection at all. You were denied that by the Biden administration.

Speaker 2 Trump, during the convention in Milwaukee last month, noted that in public. They immediately, under pressure, responded and gave you secret service protection.

Speaker 2 Now they've withdrawn it. You're without it again.
Yeah. Is that true?

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, Tony Fauci has it. He's not a federal employee anymore.
I think Mike Pompeo has secret service protection, former CIA director, but you don't.

Speaker 2 How is that?

Speaker 3 I think the,

Speaker 3 you know, I'm technically still running for president. I'm running for president,

Speaker 3 40 states.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm not, you know, I did not.

Speaker 3 I did not terminate my campaign. Did you know this? No, I didn't.
Yeah. So, you know, I'm running in the,

Speaker 3 there's 10 states where I hurt President Trump, and they're battleground states.

Speaker 3 Oh, I've taken my name off the ballot in those 10 states. But in the blue states, all blue states, all red states, I'm on the ballot.

Speaker 3 And I could technically win a contingency election if the other two vote, you know, and

Speaker 3 if the other two get 269 apiece.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 then Congress cannot work out a compromise, which is entirely possible. They have to go to the third vote getter, which would be me.
And that's why I left my name on the ballot in those states.

Speaker 3 And so,

Speaker 3 you know, that's highly unlikely to happen, but it has happened twice before in American history.

Speaker 3 And actually, in our polling now, it shows them at exactly 269 to 269.

Speaker 3 It is possible that it would happen in this

Speaker 3 campaign. So I, so they, and I, you know, we worked this out with the the Trump campaign.
They only want it off in 10 states because that's the states we hurt them. And the other states,

Speaker 3 people can vote for me,

Speaker 3 and they're not going to hurt their candidate. They can vote for me, even if they like

Speaker 3 Vice President Harris without hurting her. And they can vote for me if they like President Trump without hurting him, because we already know what's going to happen in those states.
Yes.

Speaker 2 So all the more reason that you should have what Tony Fauci has and what Mike Pompeo has and a lot of other, by the way, non-current federal employees have, which is government bodyguards.

Speaker 2 But they withdrew them immediately from you. So what's the message of that?

Speaker 3 Well, the message, I think, is a bad message, which is

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 our federal enforcement agencies have been weaponized against the American people.

Speaker 3 I mean, again, politically, weaponized politically, not against the American people, but politically.

Speaker 3 When my father took office in the Justice Department and my father was appointed a U.S.

Speaker 3 Attorney General in 1961 by my uncle, his brother, and my father, the first week in office, he had run my uncle's campaign, so he was a political guy.

Speaker 3 He called together all the division chairs, all the branch chiefs in the DOJ,

Speaker 3 and he made us into his big cavernous office.

Speaker 3 And he said to them,

Speaker 3 we're going to make one rule here, which is there is no politics.

Speaker 3 We never ask whether a potential defendant is Democrat or Republican. The people of this country have to know

Speaker 3 that their enforcement institutions, the Department of Justice, are

Speaker 3 the justice is blind here.

Speaker 3 We are

Speaker 3 free of any kind of political prejudice

Speaker 3 or bias.

Speaker 3 or favoritism. And they started putting in jail.
He prosecuted my uncle on my mother's side for antitrust violation.

Speaker 3 He prosecuted friends of his, friends of his father's whose father did not want him to prosecute.

Speaker 3 And they just said, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 We've got to apply it even handily because the American people need to understand

Speaker 3 that their institutions are free. We need to respect them and know that they're not biased in one way.
And we're losing that now in our country. And the Biden administration has

Speaker 3 really accelerated that.

Speaker 3 The most shocking thing to me, and Democrats can't even hear this story because

Speaker 3 it touches so many sort of culture war buttons, but it's a true story.

Speaker 3 People need to understand it and appreciate it. In the 2020 election,

Speaker 3 when

Speaker 3 there was

Speaker 3 Biden's laptop a week before the

Speaker 3 and we only know this, this whole story

Speaker 3 recently because of a release of documents

Speaker 3 but the

Speaker 3 when president biden's the honor to biden's laptop suddenly became an issue about a week before the debate

Speaker 3 and anthony blinken who is now the secretary of state and who was then the director of president biden's campaign went to Gina Haspel, who is the head of this director of the CIA, and said to her, we need help with this.

Speaker 3 She then got 51 CIA, current and former CIA officers to sign a public letter, which they published, I think in the New York Times, but they published it somewhere,

Speaker 3 that said that Hunter Biden's laptop was a Russian hoax that was part of a Russian disinformation effort.

Speaker 3 to tamper with

Speaker 3 the presidential election campaign. so you had a the cia which is forbidden by its charter

Speaker 3 from involving itself in any american politics and you had 51 top officers former and current

Speaker 3 who now do a disinformation campaign against the american public to tamper with the election while accusing the russians of tampering with the election

Speaker 3 And then a week later,

Speaker 3 President Biden, when he's asked about his laptop on the debate, he says that has been debunked by the CIA,

Speaker 3 by the CIA officers. And that was the end of the issue because it was debunked.
All the newspapers picked that up.

Speaker 3 And it's highly likely that that had an impact on the election.

Speaker 3 So, you know,

Speaker 3 that was the entree of President Biden getting into office. And again, you know, Democrats who hear me say this story

Speaker 3 are going to say, oh, he's just saying that because, you know, he's a Republican now, right? Which I'm not, but that's what they're going to say.

Speaker 3 But it's not that. It's just that this was wrong.

Speaker 2 The big tech companies censor our content. I hate to tell you that.
It's still going on in 2024, but you know what they can't censor? Live events.

Speaker 2 And that's why we are hitting the road on a fall tour for the entire month of September, coast to coast. We will be in cities across the United States.

Speaker 2 We'll be in Phoenix with Russell Brand, Anaheim, California with Vivek Ramaswamy, Colorado Springs with Tulsi Gabbard, Salt Lake City with Glenn Beck, Tulsa, Oklahoma with Dan Bongino, Kansas City with Megan Kelly, Wichita with Charlie Kirk, Milwaukee with Larry Elder, Rosenberg, Texas with Jesse Kelly, Grand Rapids with Kid Rock, Hershey, Pennsylvania with J.D.

Speaker 2 Vance, Redding, Pennsylvania with Alex Jones, Fort Worth, Texas with Roseanne Barr, Greenville, South Carolina with Marjorie Taylor Greene, Sunrise, Florida with John Rich, Jacksonville, Florida with Donald Trump Jr.

Speaker 3 You can get tickets at tuckercarlson.com.

Speaker 2 Hope to see you there.

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Speaker 2 So the CIA, I mean, a lot of roads lead back, unfortunately, to our most powerful intelligence agency.

Speaker 2 If you were asked, would you run it? Would you become CIO director if you were asked?

Speaker 3 I would never get,

Speaker 3 yes, I would, but I would never get

Speaker 3 Senate confirmation. As you know, the intelligence agency are protected by

Speaker 3 very, very powerful committees in the Senate and in the House.

Speaker 3 that are already into the project. And the people who serve on those committees are

Speaker 3 people who wouldn't, you know, they would not, they would, they're safeguarding that directorship. I mean, I would be very, very dangerous for those

Speaker 3 committees.

Speaker 2 So I don't think that and yet in his,

Speaker 2 you know, in your joint appearance on Friday, President Trump introduced you by saying that he plans to, if elected, establish a commission to declassify the remaining documents around your uncle's murder in 1963.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I and I think everyone at this point knows the truth, which is the CIA is implicated in that.
Those documents documents protect CIA, maybe among others.

Speaker 3 Well, whether they do or not, it's odd that they've not allowed them to be released.

Speaker 2 What could possibly be the explanation?

Speaker 3 More than 60 years after my uncle's death, almost 65 years,

Speaker 3 62 years after his death.

Speaker 3 And none of the people who were

Speaker 3 implicated in that crime are alive now.

Speaker 3 And the last ones have died off in the last year or two.

Speaker 3 And so it clearly is to protect the institution. Yes.

Speaker 3 And that's wrong. It's just wrong.
And it's wrong for a Democrat and it's wrong for Republicans.

Speaker 2 It's just interesting, though, that a bipartisan list of presidents low these six decades have kept those files classified.

Speaker 3 Well, you and I have both, I was astonished that Trump

Speaker 3 didn't declassify him because he promised to during the campaign.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was Mike Pompeo who did that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and that and that. I talked to President Trump for the first time about that this week.
What did he say?

Speaker 3 He said that Mike Pompeo begged him to,

Speaker 3 and I don't think I'm telling tales out of school here. No, I think he told the same thing to you.
That's true.

Speaker 3 But he said Mike Pompeo called him and said, this wouldn't be a catastrophe to release these. You need to not do it.
And then, you know.

Speaker 2 I want to say again, I think Mike Pompeo is a criminal. So that's my view.
He's threatened to sue me for saying that, but I hope he will because it's true.

Speaker 2 But that kind of tells the whole story right there, right? That the CIA is.

Speaker 2 Why would the CIA be trying to keep these files classified if they had nothing to do with the murder?

Speaker 3 I don't really get that. Yeah, but the subject we were talking about was the weaponization of the federal agency, and that's just one of them.
And then

Speaker 3 they get, you know, then they open up these censorship portals 37 hours after President Biden takes office, where now you have the FBI involved in American politics, and, you know, which we ran them out in the 60s, you know, because we were outraged that they were even,

Speaker 3 they were bugging Martin Luther King and the Black Panther Party. And Americans were indignant about that.

Speaker 3 Why do they think this, I mean, why are we, have we gotten to the point where it's so normalized that now we're okay with the FBI

Speaker 3 running a portal to censor political speech in our country and then inviting in the CIA and SISA and the IRS.

Speaker 3 I don't know what they were doing in there, And NIH and CDC and all these other agencies, DHS,

Speaker 3 which all had a hand in censoring American speech. So that was another thing.
And then

Speaker 3 the use,

Speaker 3 which we saw for the first time in American history of

Speaker 3 the judiciary to

Speaker 3 get rid of candidates, what they tried to do to me, they're suing me now in a dozen states.

Speaker 3 I've been in trials for the past three weeks. You know, I've spent most of my time not campaigning,

Speaker 3 but being sitting in court in cases that are trying to get me off the ballot. So like I had a million people,

Speaker 3 million American citizens sign petitions more than any candidate in history. Everybody said I'd never do this to impossibly be in the ballot in 50 cents.
Well, guess what?

Speaker 3 We got on the ballot in 50 states.

Speaker 3 And we did it by getting a a million citizens to sign petitions saying that they wanted to vote for me and the democratic party now is suing me in all those states to make sure that those people cannot vote for the person they want to when i was growing up the democratic party what of rfk and and jfk

Speaker 3 was the party that was fighting for voting rights it was fighting to make sure that every american could vote for the candidate of their choice no matter whether black or white or where they lived or democrat Republican.

Speaker 3 Now, the Democratic Party, today's Democratic Party,

Speaker 3 feels so unconfident about the candidates that it's putting forward.

Speaker 3 And it feels the only way it can win the election is by getting rid of the opponents.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, either using the courts against President Trump to lock him in jail and to embarrass and humiliate and discredit him,

Speaker 3 or using the courts against me

Speaker 3 to just to throw me off the ballot, even though the voters you know in new york's aid i had to get 45 000 ballot signatures in in 13 congressional districts i got

Speaker 3 i got 137 000 in all uh 26 congressional districts I did twice when anybody wants, and we did it easily because people wanted to see money on the ballot. New Yorkers wanted to see me on the ballot.

Speaker 3 Why is the Democratic Party suing me in frivolous cases? On what grounds?

Speaker 3 I spent a whole week in a trial for that case, for two cases they brought, and another week in another trial, for another case.

Speaker 2 You had to pay for this?

Speaker 3 It's costing me $10 million to defend myself.

Speaker 2 But on what grounds are they suing you? Like, they don't like you, so you don't have a right to be on the ballot?

Speaker 3 In New York State,

Speaker 3 they're suing me

Speaker 3 by

Speaker 3 they can't challenge our signatures because we got five times as many signatures as we required. So, you know, normally what they were doing in the first states,

Speaker 3 they're taking our signatures and they were calling everybody. They can get their numbers and they can get their cell phones, et cetera.

Speaker 3 We're contacting everybody who's signed and trying to talk them out of it, trying to get them to say, you know, you're hurting.

Speaker 3 democracy and you know you should uh you know weren't you fooled when you did this to try to get they they never succeeded oh they're they're in new york state they're suing me because they say that I did not, I don't live in New York State.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I have three residences. One is in New York.
One is in my home in Massachusetts, which is part of my family compound that we've owned for

Speaker 3 100 years.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 then in California, where I live with Charlotte. So I moved with Charlotte, California in 2014, so 10 years ago.
And I lived in New York all my life. I lived there since I was 10.

Speaker 3 My father ran for Senate there and was the senator. I moved there when I was 10.

Speaker 3 I've only voted in New York. I've always considered myself a New York resident.
I've lived in the same town.

Speaker 3 for 40 years in Bedford. I've lived in 13 different residents in that town at various times.

Speaker 3 But I always wanted to stay there. And when I moved out west with Cheryl,

Speaker 3 I made an agreement with her that, you know, when she retires, we're going to come back to New York because I feel like I'm a New Yorker.

Speaker 3 I didn't want to vote in California because I don't know anything about the politics out there. I was raised in New York.
I know all the politics, all the politicians.

Speaker 3 And so I wanted to vote. So I kept an address there.
I voted that address. That's my only place I've ever voted.

Speaker 3 My car is registered there. My driver's license is there.

Speaker 3 My law office is there. I pay income tax, almost all my

Speaker 3 income tax is from New York State. My law license is there.
I don't have a law license in California.

Speaker 3 And my hunting license is there. My fishing license is there.
Most importantly. My falconry license is there.
So I have all my birds there. I keep them there.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, but they're suing me saying I'm not a real New Yorker. I'm, I'm, you know, I, I contrive the address out of fraud and it's a sham.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 here's the thing,

Speaker 3 is that I consulted a lawyer when I, when we declared independent and began getting ballot signatures, I consulted the best ballot access attorney in the country, Paul Rossi.

Speaker 3 And I said, I got these three different residences. Which one do I put on the ballot?

Speaker 3 You have to put the same residence in all 50 states.

Speaker 3 So you can't choose another resident.

Speaker 3 You know, you can't, I can't put California in one state and Massachusetts another state in new york i have to tell the people otherwise i'm lying to somebody right right

Speaker 3 so in a couple of states for example maine where we are right now

Speaker 3 and in new hampshire those states say the only place you can put down as your domicile is the place where you vote

Speaker 3 and in new hampshire i actually had to take an oath in front of a notary

Speaker 3 that I voted in New York because otherwise they couldn't have put it down.

Speaker 3 So I had to put New York in every state because I had to put it in Maine and New Hampshire and a bunch of others because you have to put the place you vote.

Speaker 3 Anyway, the DNC is suing me saying I defrauded the public because I really live in California. And they got a, you know, they got a judge who was, you know, right out of the Democratic machine

Speaker 3 and who violated the Constitution and every precedent

Speaker 3 to say, yeah, they're right. So, you know, I lost in the lower court, which is what happens.
We're doing that. We're losing in these lower courts, and then we win the appeals.

Speaker 3 There's a hundred percent chance I'll win in the appeal, but they don't care because it's going to take me a while. And they got the headlines saying he was thrown off for fraud.

Speaker 2 So these, I mean, I, I saw Kamala Harris just the other night at her convention speech talk about how voting access is like a I know.

Speaker 3 While she was doing that, I was in court in New York,

Speaker 3 you know, trying to get on that ballot while she, while that, you know,

Speaker 3 the entire

Speaker 2 John Lewis Voting Access Act, we're going to get through. Everybody has a right to vote.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's not. Except for their opponents.
So does this, it feels to me like this is,

Speaker 2 you know, obviously it's a big political story. You're endorsing Trump.
It's a big, big change in your life as a lifelong Democrat, still a Democrat. But it also feels like, as you said at the outset.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm an independent now. So

Speaker 3 I registered as an independent when I ran. And when I talked with President Trump,

Speaker 3 the thing that we talked about is that

Speaker 3 we were going to do a unity government with the independent.

Speaker 3 Not the kind of endorsement that a lot of people make, but an endorsement like Abraham Lincoln's team of rivals, where we would be able to continue to differ publicly on issues,

Speaker 3 but that we would, on the issues that we agree on,

Speaker 3 that we were going to strive to get into government together in order to make sure that those issues are you know are you know are the priority for our country

Speaker 3 and you know he was really good about that and about you know me being able to continue on there's some issues there's a lot of issues like the border where we agree and you know censorship the wars the neocons the you know forever wars

Speaker 3 child health epidemics. Those are the most important issues.
There's other issues that

Speaker 3 I'm going to disagree on with President Trump, but he was happy with that. And that's how our country ought to be.
We ought to be able to.

Speaker 2 So, what is this realignment that you mentioned at the outset? Because this does feel like it's bigger than just this November.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, there's been a series of these realignments

Speaker 3 throughout American history. And, you know,

Speaker 3 there's history books that are written about

Speaker 3 the realignments.

Speaker 3 I think there's about five of them.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 one of those is clearly happening now because

Speaker 3 you see

Speaker 3 on so many issues, you know,

Speaker 3 you've had an inversion. The Democratic Party has become the party of the elites.

Speaker 3 It used to be the party of the poor and the working class. In fact, there was a study that came out just recently that I saw

Speaker 3 that showed that 70%, that the people who voted for Biden own 70% of the wealth in this country. The people who voted for Trump owned 30%.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 and so i believe that right so you're seeing this realignment happen where the elites you know where wall street where the big tech big pharma the big banking houses are all now democratic uh and that the um and that the working class the middle class the cops the firefighters Sean O'Brien, head of the Teamsters Union, you know, spoke

Speaker 3 great guy, great, great guy.

Speaker 3 Really love him. But he spoke at the Democratic Convention.
I mean, the Republican Convention rather than the Democratic Convention. So you're seeing this just this big alignment.

Speaker 3 And even on environmental issues, it's so weird to me because the Democrats have become subsumed in this carbon orthodoxy. And you and I have talked about this, that the only issue is carbon.

Speaker 3 And what that's done is it's forced them to do something that you should never do if you're an environmentalist,

Speaker 3 which is to commoditize and quantify everything. So everything is measured by its carbon footprint, how many tons of carbon it produces.
And,

Speaker 3 you know, you're basically,

Speaker 3 you're, you're putting everything in that kind of

Speaker 3 box of being able to quantify it and explain its value by, you know, by a numerically.

Speaker 3 And the reason that we protect the environment is just the opposite of that. The reason that we protect the environment is because there's a spiritual connection.

Speaker 3 There's a, you know there's a love that we have we you know i got in the environment because

Speaker 3 i i wanted you know this connection to the fishes and the birds and the wildlife and the and the whales

Speaker 3 and um and the the purple mountain's majesty and that you know i understood that the way you know god talks to human beings through many vectors through each other through organized religion through the great prophets through the wise people the great books of those religions but nowhere with the kind of detail and texture and grace and joy as through creation.

Speaker 3 And when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine, understand who God is and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings. And that.

Speaker 2 I hope what you just said, by the way, is chopped up. and put all over every social media platform in the world.
When we destroy nature, we degrade our own ability to experience the divine.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And that, that, you know, it's not about quantifying stuff.
That's what the devil does. He quantifies everything, right? And that is, you know, what he wants us doing.
Put a number on it.

Speaker 3 And the reason we're preserving these things is not, is because we love our children, you know, and it's, it's because we, we get, nature enriches us.

Speaker 3 It enriches us economically and spiritually and culturally and historically.

Speaker 3 It connects us to those 10,000 generations of human beings that were here before there were laptops. And

Speaker 3 it connects us to the

Speaker 3 most important spiritual lesson.

Speaker 3 All of the organized religions

Speaker 3 that we know of today, the central revelation of every one of those religions always occurred in the wilderness. You know, Moses had to go into the wilderness

Speaker 3 to listen to, to hear God's voice and see the the burning bush. He had to go to the wilderness of Mount

Speaker 3 Sinai to get the commandments.

Speaker 3 Muhammad had to go, who was a city boy from Mecca, had to go to the wilderness of Mount Hera on a camping trip with his kids and wrestle the angel Gabriel in the middle of the night to have the first stanzas of the surahs of the Quran squeezed from him.

Speaker 3 Buddha had to go into the wilderness to sit under the, you know, and wander for years and then sit under the the Bodhigaya tree to get his first revelation of nirvana.

Speaker 3 And Christ had to spend 40 days in the wilderness to discover his divinity for the first time.

Speaker 3 And his mentor was John the Baptist, who lived in a cave in the Jordan Valley and ate honey of wild bees and locusts. And, you know, And then all of Christ's parables come from nature.

Speaker 3 I'm the vine, you are the branches, the mustard seed, the little swallows, the scattering the seeds on the fellow ground, because that is where we sense the divine.

Speaker 3 God talks to us through the fishes, the birds, the leaves. They're all, you know, words from our creator.
And that is why we preserve nature. Yes.

Speaker 3 It's not because of the, you know, it's not because of the, you know, the quantity of carbon.

Speaker 2 And by the way. I feel what you said so deeply, I can hardly even express it.
And thank you for saying that.

Speaker 3 And by the way,

Speaker 3 we...

Speaker 3 The best thing that you can do for climate is

Speaker 3 to restore the soils.

Speaker 3 the soils are the solution to everything the soil will absorb all that carbon if you know if

Speaker 3 and it'll absorb the water it'll stop the flooding it'll give us healthy food and that's what our national policy has to be it has to be restoring the soil and that is you know everybody listen if you talk if you want to unite america

Speaker 3 then talk about these things. Talk about the fishes, the bird, the wildlife, and just talk about ending mountaintop remote mining.

Speaker 3 Talk about ending the mountain cutting. Talk about getting rid of, you know, the Democrats are putting these offshore wind farms that are exterminating the whales.
I know.

Speaker 3 Most of us got into this because of the whales.

Speaker 3 And they're about to extinguish the right whales, the last ones on earth.

Speaker 3 with these monstrosities that are, you know, that are costing us three times the amount. We don't need them.

Speaker 3 They cost cost 33 cents a kilowatt hour when you can get onshore wind for 10 cents a kilowatt hour. And who's making the money? Goldman Sachs, BlackRock, foreign governments.

Speaker 3 And the other thing that they're funding, hundreds of billions of dollars,

Speaker 3 this is what climate has turned into, is these climate capture pipelines that are wreaking havoc with the agricultural lands across the Midwest, stealing people's property rights with eminent domain.

Speaker 3 And who's making the money? BlackRock. And it's a useless technology that does not work.
It's just all a boondoggle.

Speaker 3 And that's what's become the environmental movement in this country. And if you depart from that orthodoxy, you're expelled from it.

Speaker 3 If you want to make Americans fight each other, talk about carbon. If you want to bring Americans together, talk about habits, habit protection.
Yeah, nature.

Speaker 3 Is it a little weird?

Speaker 2 I mean, you literally spent your life river keepers as an an environmentalist and environmental lawyer in the environmental movement. I mean,

Speaker 2 that's your life work product.

Speaker 2 Have you been expelled from the movement?

Speaker 3 Pretty much, yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, the weird thing is I think of you as a radical environmentalist.

Speaker 2 Well, I definitely am.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you are.

Speaker 2 I haven't showered inside in 10 years. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 No, I feel it so strongly.

Speaker 3 So, you know, you love nature. You're against these big projects that aren't destroying it.

Speaker 3 And, you know, you talk talk about toxics and the america the environmental movement no longer talks about toxics anymore they don't care about it i don't care that we're mass poisoning our children it it's so weird to me and they

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 and you know i saw you i for

Speaker 3 for 40 years i've been fighting to get

Speaker 3 against endocrine disruptors Endocrine disruptors are a class of chemicals that change, they alter us hormonally, and

Speaker 3 they can change sexual conduct. They can change

Speaker 3 sexual development.

Speaker 3 They can affect fertility and we've already lost 50% of our sperm count.

Speaker 3 You know, we're having girls in this country that are achieving puberty on average between 10 and 13 years old. That's six years less.

Speaker 3 younger than they were, you know, 80 years ago.

Speaker 3 We have the lowest puberty levels on any continent in the world here because we're just bombarding our children with endocrine disruptors

Speaker 3 and at you know they're they're chemicals like pcbs olichlurinated biphenyls atrazine which can turn male frogs into females and produce fertile eggs that's how potent they are as an endocrine disruptor.

Speaker 3 And it's in 63% of our water supply.

Speaker 3 PCBs, which I've been fighting since the day I became an environmental lawyer and getting them out of the Hudson.

Speaker 3 And for 40 years, I've been trying to get Republicans to talk about it. I talked Roger Ells all the time, who both of us knew,

Speaker 3 who would let me occasionally onto Fox News to talk about it.

Speaker 3 But there was so much hostility from the Republican Party because it was like you're attacking corporate profit taking and that these are chemicals. They're molecules.
Who cares?

Speaker 3 You know, they can't hurt you.

Speaker 3 And there was just, and then you do this incredible show on endocrine disruptors.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, oh, my God, Tucker Carlson has just done the best show that's ever been done showing, you know, what's happening with endocrine disruptors and how they're just destroying us.

Speaker 3 And the Democrats went after you and the environmental movement. And I'm like, what? You know, this is what we've been trying to get for 40 years, the Republicans to care about these issues.

Speaker 3 And they said, oh, he's saying that chemicals turn people gay and he's anti-gay and all of this stuff. And that wasn't what you said at all.
And that's not what anybody said.

Speaker 3 And what we're saying is we're destroying our children. That's what we're saying.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And God's creation, which is not ours to destroy.
Your description of why we protect nature and its role in our lives and what happens when you're cut off from nature and animals by

Speaker 2 being part of nature is the best I've ever heard ever.

Speaker 3 And that's,

Speaker 3 I mean it.

Speaker 2 And when that,

Speaker 2 you know, when it becomes a matter of quantifying things for profit, then that kind of corrupts the whole enterprise. So where do you, my last question, what happens now?

Speaker 2 You had this kind of amazing announcement with Donald Trump on Friday. It's now Monday, I think, was just three days ago.
How do you spend from here until Election Day?

Speaker 3 I'm going to work to get him elected. And,

Speaker 3 you know, know i'm working with the campaign we're working on policy issues together

Speaker 3 um

Speaker 3 i will uh i've been asked to go on to the transition team

Speaker 3 and you know to help pick the people who will be running the government and uh i'm uh i'm looking forward to that and i you know i i'm i'm gonna fight

Speaker 2 i don't know what would happen to me if we lose well that's because that was that's kind of i mean a lot of people i know personally and I'm friends with have gone to prison.

Speaker 3 One of them is in prison right now, Pavel Duroff. There are others.

Speaker 2 Like, what happens if he loses to you?

Speaker 2 If you mean, if Trump loses and Kamala Harris becomes president.

Speaker 3 Oh, I don't know. But I mean, I listen, I know.
I don't.

Speaker 3 I never really think about that.

Speaker 3 I think it's

Speaker 3 what I think is, okay, here's what I got to do today. And, you know, get up every day and say, reporting for duty, sir, and then go do that.
And,

Speaker 3 you know, nothing's a crisis. Everything's a task, right? And

Speaker 3 so that's what I'm going to be kind of a happy warrior. You know,

Speaker 3 I know what I have to do, so I'm going to do it.

Speaker 2 Robert F. Kennedy Jr., thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 That was a blessing. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 To watch the rest unlock our entire vast library of content, you can visit tuckercarlson.com and activate your membership today. In the name of free speech, we hope you will.