Mike Cernovich on Epstein, Demons & Spirituality, and Feds Embedded in the Conservative Movement

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How do you live on the internet without having it destroy your brain? I went through that in 2017 and where I felt like my brain was becoming a little bit dopamine fried. So for me, I just said, I'll just do less.
And I went to DC less and I did less of,

I made myself irrelevant in a way. So there was a point where I was on a, and I was on a real arc

to be a big deal. And then my brain was getting fried.
I looked at videos of myself, my face was

all red. I was just having this inflammation because the cortisol and I was getting calls from people in dc three or four in the morning and i was breaking a bunch of stories so i was like oh phone kids and i realized i was losing myself to this world this digital world yes and then i go man i don't i don't want to this sucks dude i'm gonna have to figure something out can i ask you what is what do you mean it's cortisol what does that mean a stress hormone so when you're under stress, fight or flight response, you're going to have to figure something out.
Can I ask you, what do you mean it's cortisol? What does that mean? A stress hormone. So when you're under stress, fight or flight response, you're going to have cortisol.
And then cortisol is inflammatory. And then that's what makes a lot of people who maybe are healthy look a little stressed out because you bloat, you hold water.
There's a lot of things that go with it. So a lot of people, when you leave a high- leave a high-risk job people will be oh i lost 10 pounds no you lost about five or ten pounds of water yeah because you're not oh the buzz the buzz right oh i gotta i gotta respond to that wait so you felt like you were succeeding too much oh yeah yeah i love that yeah objectively um yeah and then most people fret about not being successful enough yeah but i is how you define your spiritual world or how you define what you want to do with life and i noticed that i got tired of people like for example like me me doing this episode with you i almost didn't do it because i got oh man i'm gonna have a bunch of people texting me how do i get on tucker what's tucker's number can you get this thing to everyone has my number yeah no i know but the people like everyone on the planet they're so but they're so incapable they can't find it right okay all that and then my dms will be blowing up and and that was the problem is people oh get this to don jr i saw i saw that you were a thing where don jr is get this to trump gets it and i go no man this is not really what it's about so the the only real way to describe how i ended up in this weird world was it was uh it was a gonzo it was a ride it wasn't a deliberate calculated move how can i become a whatever because i was an influencer before there was a term influencer i was recognized in public for what i wrote on the internet this is before you can make any money doing it this was before there are brand deals this was just people had blogs or people on social media blowing off steam or goofing off or whatever and so i was i was very early to what's now known as an influencer but so you you start i mean you had a completely different life you're a lawyer um you live in california but you're not from there you this you're not basically where you decided where you thought you would be 20 years ago but you start succeeding in this new world but I still don't understand how it came to you that you don't want to be as successful as you are.
Well, I decided I wanted to become irrelevant. And the reason is because- That's the opposite of what most people want.
Right, I wanted to be, I was, I have a story about this. I won't say who it is, but I was having dinner with a friend of mine and I was working on my next book, which was called Audacity, How to Go from Nobody to Somebody.
And it was a discussion of, again, influencing before people knew them as influencers. And it was about brand building, getting your message out, rhetoric.
And I was having dinner with my friend and he goes, you know what? By the time you finish this book, you're not going to publish it and you're going to call it How to Become a Nobody. And I kind of laughed and said, oh, ha ha ha.
He was right. I never released the book.
And- But you wrote the book but didn't publish it? Yeah, just felt it was too vainglorious, felt it was too self-celebratory. I felt like my ego was seeking external validation too much and then I was losing who I was and losing what I wanted to do and lose.
Cause I, my whole philosophy is, wait, how did you come to that? Did your wife mention it to you or no, no, I quiet moment. You realized you were going to become a worse person.
You just, you feel it. Subtle, subtle little things and little gestures.
You, you would Google your name. I don't have a Google alert on my name.
I don't know anything. People occasionally will send me this.
Have you seen this? No. And I'm not trying to act like I'm too cool for school, but I don't do that because you'd Google your name.
You'd name search yourself on Twitter. What are people saying? Do I got to respond to this? And you become a little, you become a brand, not a person, right? Or you become an account.
That's how they refer to people on X, formerly known as Twitter. Oh, that's an account.
And I say, no, but that's what happens. You lose your humanity and you're no longer humanity.
You're more like a cyborg or you're living in an augmented reality of social media where you, whoever you are, doesn't exist. and you're engaging in some kind of performative dance for a mob of people who are who necessarily don't necessarily have your best interests in mind like who's that that completely crazed chick who has the mental breakdowns on camera i think she works the washington post she's from greenwich yeah yeah taylor lorenz taylor lorenz yeah um who's on hand is loathsome, but every time I've ever seen her, I just, maybe I have too many daughters.
I feel so sorry for her because she's clearly been destroyed by what you're describing. Oh, a lot of people do.
There's a certain look some people have when they're in front of a camera and where they're, this is where they want to be, right? They ham it up for the camera. Yeah.
And I had always been the opposite. So for me, my biggest, if I had an influence on this, it was, I don't know if you ever watched Dr.
Eugene Scott on satellite radio. Well, Dr.
Eugene Scott from my childhood in California. Oh, there you go.
Even better. The university cathedral.
Yeah, the guy, the public access guy who would sit in a chair- Get on the telephone. And yell at viewers? Yes.
When I was in like sixth or seventh grade, my brother and I would fire up a bull and watch Dr. Gene.
And he hated his viewers. He would say, you're not, you're disgusting.
I told you to send me money. And his phone bank behind him, that's the guy? The voices of faith.
He was incredible. Yeah, I grew up.
So we had a bootleg satellite radio transmitter and we picked up dr eugene scott and he he's probably the greatest influence on me and how i do media because i'll go on these rails anyone listening to this or watching this just hit pause go onto youtube is he on you are there tapes oh yeah he's got to Yeah. Yeah, he died years ago.
One of my life's regrets is I never went to the university cathedral before he died. And that was one of my memento mori moments.
So he, because his affect, his way of communicating was like so strange. How was he an influence on you? You seem much less strange.
Okay, he sits around reading books, the most obscure knowledge and would go down these deep rabbit holes that nobody really cared about. And then, am I boring you? Am I boring you? And he would scream, am I boring you? Do you want to hear more? Get on the telephones.
And then they have these horse videos because he was a horseman. And you just have to see these horses videos.
And I thought, this is the coolest mofo that i've ever seen in my life this guy's amazing and he was a phd he's a brilliant guy genius guy he'd know all this trivia and i thought man that's cool i kind of want to be that guy when i grow up and did anyone else on your block want to be dr gene scott i don't know that anybody in the world wanted to be in the world i. I don't know that anyone else but me found in this to be an aspirational character.
And I would watch him for hours a week, especially because it was the only thing that might, because we were very strict household, but we could watch. My dad would let me watch him forever.
So for me, that was one of the few things that I could watch and I could watch it with my dad. And I was obsessed with his delivery style.
I thought it was cool that he just sat around and read books. Because if you think about it, people go, what do you do for a living? And the answer is that I read books and write about what I read and what I find interesting.
That's it. And there's no more there to it than that.
But there's a lot of there there if you look at it in that context. So he would be framed by piles of books, and it would be the most weird stuff, at least growing up in a small town book she'd never heard of.
We didn't have Amazon.com back then. And I thought, that'd be cool.
Just sit around, read books, talk shit, yell at people who are watching you, scream, go on tirades, smoke cigars. Where do I sign up for this? How do I do this for do this watching it was was almost like a masochistic experience because he hated you but he commanded your attention and then told you to send him money and a lot of people did well i don't know that he hated you as much as i because i grew up and watching pro wrestling too i viewed it more as a bit because i think that he had a genuine smiley effect to him and i think that he did i think that he was happy and enjoying what he was doing i viewed it much less that he had contempt for his audience but more that he was a rabble rouser and he was doing a bit of a pro wrestling bit he was a heel he was an intellectual heel so if you look at rick flair was rick flair a good guy or bad? Well, Ric Flair didn't hate the audience, right? The bad guys would run in, the Iron Sheik would run in,

cussing people out. He didn't hate his audience.
That was his bit, right? So Dr. Eugene Scott,

that was his bit. He was a heel, an intellectual heel, and he was having fun.
And I think the

audience was in on it. And if the audience is in on the bit, then it becomes fun.

Now, that's a much deeper reading than I was capable of giving it, but I think you're right. So you decide to disappear, become less relevant.
How do you do that? And did it work? Absolutely worked. I don't have people asking me to find out how to get in touch with anybody in the Trump campaign or anybody who's- It sounds like you from politics then well unless i pulled back from politics i did this video and i i thought one of my epiphanies was i was reading a book and because it goes both ways so i don't know if you've ever gone to a modern bookstore anymore but it's pretty depressing and then you'll see a book and you'll see the author is some crank on twitter that is a completely not credible person so i can't read history books anymore because i read these historians on on x and i go oh they're lying about trump i can't listen to dan carlin podcast hardcore history i can't listen to any of this because when you read what they're writing about contemporaneous events you realize there's nothing about them that you can trust in any of their storytelling with I agree with that.
And then I reached another epiphany where I was reading, I like Paulo Aquila books a lot. And he's famous for The Alchemist, but he's written a bunch of other little side quest books.
I read Hippie recently. And I thought, I don't know what this guy looks like.
I wouldn't know if I saw this guy in public. I don't really care what he had for dinner, but I like his books.
And then I thought, I want to be more of a book as a metaphor. I'm a book.
You read my X account. You scroll, you read it.
That's interesting. You get mad because I maybe word things in a way that you don't like, but you don't really care that much about me, the person, right? It's more of the words.
Whereas when I was doing a lot of live streams a lot of videos there becomes more of an emotional component to it right because tv is way more powerful video is way more powerful than audio video is way more powerful than the written word but less enduring so in my mind i thought well i'll do fewer streams because i would do these very popular live streams. I just quit doing them.
And I found that that made me significantly less relevant. But happier? More content.
There's a great book on the happiness hypothesis. I've studied the philosophers.
I was a philosophy major in college. And I learned that happiness is a dragon, really.
it's not a destination it's more about it can only be obtained indirectly so I think less about happiness and I kind of rejected that oh are you happy and more along the lines of is it meaningful is it impactful is it significant is it having the desired outcome for the world and the desired outcome for me? And in that regard, much less relaxed, much less stressed out. I have much less cortisol pulsing through my body.
That's for sure. I can wind down easily.
So for example, I can raw dog a hike four hours and raw dogging a hike means no audio book, no podcast, no radio, just me and my thoughts. It's called raw dogging when you don't have electronics on you? That's the new meme.
When you can raw dog. That's so pathetic.
You raw dog it, yeah. But that's how it takes.
Like it's an achievement. Well, we're all cyborgs now.
Not me. Well.
I hate that shit. Yeah, it's getting there.
Yeah, But if you can do that for hours, that's right.

I don't wear headphones in the gym.

So I did much less disconnecting from the augmented reality world

or the virtual reality world and spent more time in physical world.

Raw dogging.

I thought that was like no condom.

It is.

But memes change and language usage change.

Amazing.

Amazing.

What's going to happen in this election?

Nobody can know because the Democrats have all these tricks up their sleeves that people aren't prepared for that for example that what they're doing now with motor voter registration is they're registering illegal immigrants who come into the country and they'll just harvest those ballots right it's real easy to do. We have 10 or 11 million people in it

over the past couple of years

on the Biden administration.

You register them all to vote.

It doesn't matter

because they're not going to vote.

So there's no voter prosecution

and there won't be any record

of voter fraud by them.

But you have all these names now.

And a swing state,

remember elections decided

not by the popular vote. It's decided by 50 to 100,000 votes in three to four states, right? So all you do is you need 8,000 votes in Georgia, push them through, right? 20,000 votes in Arizona.
You have all these extra names now added to the voter rolls, push them through, right? Wisconsin has those drop boxes back, push them through. and you don't need to do another scale of millions you just need to do it strategically and 10,000 here 20,000 here so that is why we don't know what's going to happen in November there's no way to know if you're wondering how big tech got powerful enough to void the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States, how did it get big enough to nullify the founding documents of the most powerful company in the world? Well, simple.
They got really rich. Money is power.
Well, how'd they get rich? From information, your information, which you keep giving to them. How do you do that? every time you use the internet unprotected You're handing all of your online activity all the details about you to Silicon Valley Which sells it including to government agencies which use it to spy on you That's why it's probably not a good idea to go online Unprotected not just for your own sake, but for the sake of the country.
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I mean, if that's correct, that's so dark. I almost don't want to dwell on it.
But then that's why it would be fine if Biden stayed then. Well, we want Biden to run in November.
I think he's the weakest candidate that we can have. But there's a new enthusiasm happening knowing that if Biden stays in the race, they have to save Biden because now there's real peril.
People took it for granted that Biden was going to win, Democrat voters especially, and now they're thinking that he might not win and that'll drive more Democrat voter turnout. It's going to be hotly contested, man.
It's going to be hotly contested. People saying Trump's up two on this poll, Trump's up three on this poll.
None of that matters. It's going to be a hotly contested election and people are getting lackadaisical.
Well, yeah. I mean, there's a huge scramble in Washington to, you know, I want to be secretary of this or secretary of that.
I mean, they're acting like it's done. Yeah, they're acting like they've won which i don't like there's a lot of congressional races that are close that people need to watch out for democrats might take the house they think they're going to take the house what's being done there and unfortunately not much unfortunately people aren't running on the issues that they want to run on so for example i was talking about this yesterday on x and in orange county there's a real concern that orange county could become like the bolshevik run los angeles county so a guy ran todd spitzer ran for which is right next door right ran for district attorney his campaign pan his camp todd spitzer ran for um district attorney so yeah the district attorney election the campaign slogan was no la and oc he won by two to one margin orange county what did he mean by that he meant no crime no crime waves like they have in la none of these homeless encampments none of this bail reform so-called happening or just that's criminals certainly prosecute criminals basic stuff it's in a way you feel like um mentally stunted that you have these conversations no it's so true no it's it's your you're in a surreal parallel reality where you go oh no you see the way to win republicans is you want to enforce the criminal code against people who murder people You want to actually put criminals in jail.
And then you have these weird, surrealist moments in yourself where you think, did I say that? Am I stupid? This is banal. Why are we talking about this? It's right.
And you go, no, but it is banal. It's utterly stupid.
And yet that's where we are as a society. So you do have to talk about it.
to talk about it all the time you have to remind people of this all of the time because that is the dumb world that we live in and it does feel sometimes you demoralizing because you feel like you're talking below your intellect right as a writer as a speaker you want to talk about issues that interest you and interest and that you find novel right oh i read this book what's this book you read what's that about oh i went down that rabbit hole that's cool and so much of our time unfortunately has to be devoted to saying okay republicans crime is bad people don't want crime you're running you need to talk about crime and then you see them talking about everything but crime and you think no okay i have to grab you by the shirt todd spitzer did talk about crime yeah he won by two to one in a 50 50 so that i would think that every other republican ask michelle steel ask these orange county congress members how much they're talking about crime ask them when's the last time they had a press conference about crime? Oh, but I'm running for Congress. It's a national issue.
No, it's not. It's local, right? Running for Congress is not a national ballot referendum.
It is a local election. That's right.
And they don't understand these things. And you think, how do you not understand these things? And then I think, I'm wasting so much of my time with mediocre people who either have no will or there really are this dumb.

And what am I doing with my life?

So that's where you have these existential crises.

I've been there. But it's why wouldn't you talk?

I mean, crime, there's no defense of it at all.

So and you're a Republican.

You don't have to be for crime. You're not not for rape so why wouldn't they talk about it it can't just be stupidity they feel pressure not to i think that they don't understand the issues and the way they should and that they get too much caught up in the dc think tank realm and i don't think that they're being told you can't really talk about crime i think that in their gilded world they don't understand what the issues really are concerning people they don't have any kind of concept of how bad it is in certain parts and i do think that they're afraid of the media attack so when the orange county district attorney ran for office the media of course attacked him smeared him fascism far right this fat but he over overwhelmingly won and as you know republicans are controlled by the media in terms of the narrative they're so afraid of a hit piece right they're so afraid of negative press coverage that they allow the media to them.
But why would you let your enemies control you?

That's the philosophical question, right?

The question is, why are Republicans so pathetic?

And I've spent a lot of time thinking about that.

And I think that there's a strain of Christian nativity that people don't like to talk about because then it seems like you're, oh, you hate Christians now, Cernovich.

You're anti-Christian.

And I say, no, if you read the verses in the Bible, they say, you got to be gentle as a dove, but wise as a serpent. Right? Everybody skips over that part.
And you have to ask, where's the serpent type wisdom? Where are you not understanding these issues? Where are you not thinking? Where are you not being shrewd? And they aren't. They have this negativity, and they have this gullibility, and they have this weakness that comes from being too nice.
So, the biggest problem, one of Nietzsche's great criticisms of Christians that I think has held up well with the inversion of morality and how Christians became a morality of a slave type morality, which is self-sacrifice, self-abnegation, denial of yourself. Well, in one way, these are good Christian virtues, which is if you think your ego is getting out of control, it might be good to become a little bit less relevant.
It might be good to take a step back from the limelight. These might be good things to do for your heart, but that doesn't mean you let somebody kick in the door and torture you to death, right? And- Or rape your wife or hurt the people you love.
Or kill people, whatever the case is. You don't let that end up like the czar lined up against the wall with your family while they'll kill you, right? There's too much of that strain of weakness that has infected a lot of the modern Christian traditions to where they don't have really an understanding of it.
And they're the Ned Flanders, oh, by golly gee, can't we all get along kind of types. And then because of that, they're more open to being persuaded by evil forces because they don't have that strong grounding and that courage to stand up against evil.
Well, they certainly lack courage. What's evil? How are we defining evil? We define evil as anti-human.
If you start from, I like C.S. Lewis's take on this, which is whether it's true or not, I think it's a good way to, by true, I mean, whether it's a metaphor or it's literally true, people can debate.
But if you think of the fall of the angels, and then you think of humanity you would understand that the demons are at war with god's creations humans because humans still have god's love humans are still capable of experiencing divine grace and experiencing god's love whereas the demons who rebelled during the fall are not So what they want to do is implement anti-humanist policies and have human suffering and have human despair. And you can feel that force, again, whether it's a literal one involving actual forces or whether that's a metaphor, you could say the evil would be anti-human.
But I mean, it almost has to be a supernatural phenomenon because, by definition, human beings would not be inclined to be anti-human. Animals don't act against their own interests.
Animals don't commit suicide. There's a lot of strange elements of the human condition.
That suggest outside forces that are not human acting on humans. Yeah, humans given to despair in a way that animals don't.
Despair would be incomprehensible to other animals. What's that wonderful D.H.
Lawrence poem? D.H. Lawrence has this great poem about watching a bird, it's two lines long, drop dead of cold and fall from the bow, dead to the ground, and not feel a moment of self-pity.
Right. I mean, that is kind of the difference.
Right, that's us. I remember one time we hit a deer, I was with a friend, and the deer's back broke, and it just kept running to try to live, right? Whereas a human would immediately think, oh, my life is over, right? So we have this fatalism in us, something bad happens to us, and we define it in, oh, my life is over.
No, it isn't't your life's in a bad spot right it sucks it might suck for a while but your life is not over right so then what is that despair so i think when i think about these terms and i think of what is evil or what i think is demonic i think in terms of the worst thing you can do as a person is despair, because one, that rejects

the divinity of Christ because you're rejecting that you can be saved. Because if you're despairing, then you're saying that I reject Christ, right? That's probably, if not the greatest sin, one of the greatest sins, because I'm in despair, okay? Therefore, you don't believe Christ can save you you're're completely under control of the forces, right? The dark forces.
And then I think of evil in terms of causing human suffering and being anti-human. So, that's interesting.
How do you fight, I mean, if you've got your head in the internet all day and the civilization that produced you was collapsing and evil is omnipresent and hurting people before your eyes, including people you love. How do you keep from despair? Well, because the timelines are different, right? In our primitive minds, we think, oh, this is the worst.
Everything's falling apart. No, it isn't.
We're not even in Bolshevik era. We're not even in communist china era under mao we're not in the cambodian genocide so there's a lot of and this goes back to maybe why republicans are so weak a lot of us have been so psychologically coddled that we view things as being insurmountable problems that we can't solve i think it was mao who said that americans would break there were ever a war in America.
We've never had World War II, everybody was bombed. That was real despair.
We were the guys over there helping the British bomb people, right? Certainly. In America, we weren't being bombed.
Women had to go work at factories and other things, but it was nothing like Europe and their wars. So in America, we're so psychologically coddled that we think, oh, we're losing our country.
You're always losing your country. Time does not stop.
The world is not static. There's always forces being pushed.
There's always a dialectic. There's always good versus evil.
There's always been lower points in humanity and higher points in humanity. So we don't know where we are, even on the cosmic timeline, on God's timeline, on the demon's timeline, on the angel's timeline, we don't even know where we are, first of all.
That's mistake number one, is that we are, in our own mind, gods, and we understand the moment that we're in, and we understand that the moment that we're in is so unique, and that there's a narrative arc happening that is either over and we've won, because you never win, or we're losing and and oh my god we fall into despair so the problem is i call it like the marvel the marvel movies capture this well you don't watch tv or movies and i can't even watch them because they're so formulaic but the idea is here are the people bad guys come in destroy things hero emerges good guys come in Good guys beat bad guys. Good guys, bad guys come in, destroy things, hero emerges, good guys come in, good guys beat bad guys, good guys kiss the girls.
The end, right? And that's what we love in the American mind. But if you looked at it and you zoomed out, not from that simple narrative arc that we love as Americans, you would say, well, now all these buildings were blown up, people are dying.
People have lost sons and daughters. People are wailing in agony in ways that we can't begin to comprehend.
And you haven't even won because there'll be another bad guy. There'll be another bad guy coming down, right? So you haven't, what do you mean you've won? The good guys won.
No, the good guys have resolved the conflict in their favor. And now you have to rebuild and then you're going to have politics and people fighting fighting as they rebuild.
Who's going to get the contracts? Who's getting ripped off? You have all these kids now that you have to watch out for. What do you do with them? So when you think of it in that way, it can either make you despair more because you feel totally helpless.
Oh my God, these problems are way worse than I thought. Or you realize, ah, we're going through a thing.
We're going through a thing. Okay, this is a bad thing we're going through.
Let's see what we can do about it. So there's a term that I picked up from the ayahuasca kind of people in that little scene.
And I think it comes from addiction. And they say the only way out is through, right? And it sounds sort of glib, the only way out is through.
What does that even mean? But it means when you're in the shit, you're in the shit. You're in the shit, bro.
What do you want me to do? You want me to hold your hand? You want a milk and cookie? You want a little snuggle? You want a baby bottle? You're in the shit, bro. What are you going to do? Sit there and cry yourself to sleep? No, you just keep going.
The only way I was through, right? So when you that as the way you live it doesn't mean you don't have bad days but you realize yeah i'm in the shit okay what am i gonna do call mommy get a little blankie maybe have a bottle suck on my thumb a little bit no you're not gonna do that right you just keep pushing through what's the closest you've been to despair the i mean i've been in've been in despair and the human role over money, in hindsight, kind of laughably, small amounts of money. But at the time when you don't have any, and you're like, I wasn't approved for student loans.
I got approved for student loans and then I didn't get approved. And then I thought I was going to have to drop out of law school because I couldn't get my student loans.
And now looking back at it, I was like, wow, I was bugging out over that, right? But at the time, that's your whole world. So the smaller you define your world, the bigger your problems seem, right? So if you want to have less despair, define your- The smaller you define your world, the bigger your problems seem.
Yeah. That is wise.
Yeah. So I look back at that now and I think, oh my God, I was borderline suicidal over just a financial problem.
You know, like I could have just worked for whatever, right? There's a hundred different ways to solve it. And so I had a ton of despair there.
And then I've definitely had despair over, despair maybe is not the right word, but close to it where we get trump over the finish line 2016 and he's going in and all of a sudden the people who got him in there pushed in the side and all the people who opposed him take over what do they say that the people who start revolutions rarely finish them yes and i thought we're living we're living this right now. And I was bummed, man.
I was bummed that we took all these personal risks, that we made this happen, an impossible feat. And all of the people who are never Trump ended up in the administration, ended up staffing things.
And that made you feel like despair, maybe less of a word than powerless, where you're like, we did the right thing. And sometimes you feel that way with these Republicans.
You're like, we gave you Congress. We gave you Trump.
We gave you the White House. We gave you Congress.
We gave you the Senate. And we can't do anything.
We can't do anything. Nothing is changing, right we get you know we get um the republicans congress in this last election and they still send all the money to ukraine and you're thinking what are you what are you guys doing they're confirming all these radical judges and the senate and they go oh well lindsey graham is rubber stamping all these appointments well black them in committee do something right a way, you're screaming into the void, like, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? Why do I have all these gray hairs over this stuff? And if I, but again, that's me and my own ego defining the problem small, right? And then that's what, or defining the world as small as everything is based on that one issue.
And then that makes the problem seem bigger. Then I just try to zoom out, remind myself we're on a longer timeline.
We're on the timeline of infinity. Do what we can do.
That doesn't mean give these people a pass. But the despair sets in when you think, what more do we need to do? We've given you guys everything.
And even now with world trump is going against a project 20 up 2025 people and those were his most loyal staffers these are the adults in the room that he's going to need if he wins and a bunch of never trumpers are at his ear again and tell him to issue statements going against all these people and you realize man're going to relive 2017. But Biden is so bad that we've got to vote for Trump.
But the energy isn't the way it was. Like when we voted for Trump in 2016, we were not voting the lesser of evils.
That was why a lot of people like me who didn't care about politics or didn't really care to vote got involved. Do I really care if it's John McCain, Barack Obama? 100% I don't.
100% I don't. Fair.
Do I really care if it's john mccain barack obama 100 i don't 100 i don't fair do i really care if it's mitt romney or barack obama 100 i don't right because mitt would have done more wars so obama will do things worse on social issues but mitt would have had us in war with russia immediately could have so you think okay do i care not really clinton versus trump we're talking about the fate of human civilization yes i say this to this day and i believe with all my heart that the people who voted for trump in 2016 did the greatest act of human charity and maybe human history because tens of millions would have died had hillary clinton won they had their whole game plan bro they were going to go get in some kind of war with syria that would have led to some shootout with russian mercenaries and american special operations troops people like joe can't explain all that eric prince can explain all that the table was set for war with russia we were able to delay that so we were able to can i ask you just a dumb question but why would anyone want a war with russia like what was that so you're saying back even in 2015-16 ghouls like hillary clinton were planning on war with russia why well they need a big war they it's just big war but why russia because they're a legitimate power and it would be a real war they were tired of these little

tiny land disputes where we're winning they need they need massive destruction and why because they were i mean they worship evil they want more humans to suffer if you look at war from yeah good answer i mean so if if you look at war and you start with the fundamental definition of evil and what evil is then you would realize that the demons don't care which side of the war they're on all they care about are humans are killing each other right that's their own agenda so they'll that's why when i hear people talk about things like oh we'll have a civil war in the u.s like well that's demonic and you. And you don't even realize you're in demonic influence.
What do you think a civil war is like?

Have you looked at what happened in Yugoslavia?

You look at the aftermath of that?

Show me where, show me you have a civil war

and this is a good outcome,

where this is something that you want to-

Never.

Idealize, right, it's demonic.

But they don't think that, they're like,

we're the good guys and we're being oppressed

by the bad guys.

That is demonic influence.

We're the good guys, they're the bad guys.

And I, first of all, do believe we're the good guys.

And I do believe that the other side of the bad guys. That is demonic influence.
We're the good guys. They're the bad guys.
And I, first of all, do believe we're the good guys. And I do believe that the other side of the bad guys, but once that leads you down that road, then the demons are smiling because they don't care.
Oh yeah, you are the good guys. You're the moral.
You're the righteous. They're the evil ones oppressing you.
They worship demons. You're the good Christians.
You need to to go to war with them you're still in that frame right so everything about human flourishing is trying to escape that frame the framing of the anti-humanist forces real or metaphorical and then you realize that there are people who are obviously convening with these evil forces consciously or or unconsciously. Do you think in some cases consciously?

I don't believe that because there's not enough wisdom

that you would have if you were convening with the entities.

Good boy.

Yeah.

It's not something that you would know.

Like I can tell if somebody's been down that route and you're like, no, no,

these people, they don't have. How can you tell? There's an infinite divine wisdom that you access when you pierce the veil between the man's world and the spirit world.
and when you go over that veil or pierce through that veil, you are immediately humbled because you laugh at how much pride you might have had as a person. You think, oh, wow, I thought I was hot shit.
Oh, I'm nothing here. I'm nothing here.
Oh my goodness. Okay.
And that's probably why it's able for me to become less relevant over the years because the danger is then you become too egoless and you don't do anything, right? So you become complacent. Yeah.
It's tricky, right? Am I living in pride? Am I living in boastfulness? Okay. I don't want to do that.
But if you don't have a little bit of pride, you don't have a little bit of drive, you don't have a little sizzle, then maybe a message doesn't get across too. So it's constant, there's constant tension, right? But the spirit world realm, they show me, oh yeah, I mean, that's tension.
It's always tension. It's always duality, right? Yin and yang, if you look at the medical staff, two serpents, you look at DNA, two strands, there's always tension, which is why despair happens when you think that there's a final outcome in one way or another.
And then complacency happens when you think nothing matters. And then hubris happens when you think that you've won and the game is all over.
And you don't realize Julius Caesar gets stabbed in the back by his friends and little supporters. Great.
The Cold War ended, but history has not ended. Exactly.
Yes.

And that,

so once you just embrace

the dualistic struggle

within yourself,

then you realize,

okay,

I do need to do

a little bit of this,

but I can still struggle

against the baser elements of myself.

I didn't mean to

pull the conversation

into another direction.

So thank you for explaining that. 2016, if Hillary had won, millions would have died in the wars that she planned.
I think that's absolutely right. Voting for Trump stopped that, at least for the time being.
But you felt despair because you felt that Trump himself was subverted or allowed himself to be subverted by people who hated him and it made you feel powerless demoralized yeah it's probably a continuum so despair would maybe be overstating it but on the continuum it'd be demoralization and yes and where you think oh man I can't believe that I really I can't's like if you got your kid in a new car and the kid crashed the car right away while drunk driving. You think, why, brother, why, right? No, why, why? And there's, but that, but it had a magnified intensity.
Yeah, because it was the country. Most of us, well, actually all of us, go through our daily lives using all sorts of, quote, free technology without paying attention to why it's, quote, free.
Who's paying for this and how? Think about it for a minute. Think about your free email account, the free messenger system used to chat with your friends, the free weather app or game app you open up and never think about.
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These companies aren't developing expensive products and just giving them to you because they love you. They're doing it because their programs take all your information.
They hoover up your data, private, personal data, and sell it to data brokers and the government. and all of those people who are not your friends are very interested in manipulating you and your personal political and financial decisions it's scary as hell and it's happening out in the open without anybody saying anything about it this is a huge problem and we've been talking about this problem to our friend Eric Prince for years someone needs to fix this and he and his partners have and now we're partners with them and their company is called unplugged it's not a software company it's a hardware company they actually make a phone the phone is called unplugged and it's more than that the purpose of the phone is to protect you from having your life stolen, your data stolen.
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have you felt despair in the last couple years um i mean i felt despair in spirit travels during those sessions,

yeah, you feel you get in touch

with that human emotion of despair.

You get in touch with the darkest side of energy

and the more challenging parts of being a human for sure.

But you're not driven to despair by the news on Twitter.

Oh, that's such a small potatoes

compared to the spirit world.

It's small potatoes.

It's so trivial compared to the real war happening and the real forces at work that it's hard to even take seriously. To the point that I have to reel myself back in, but you do have to take it seriously.
Even if it is small stakes compared to the real conquest. So what are the real stakes? The real stakes is one, on the individual level, you're a mortal soul.
That's the real stake. The greatest challenge that I have every day is trying to sanctify my own heart and my own soul.
Because what I've learned through various experiences and then reading a lot of the old Orthodoxodox christian wisdom and learning actually how christianity was supposed to be it was more and why i never really resonated with protestantism if you want to go i mean so protestantism i feel like is very mind-driven here's a scripture this is what the scripture said i'm a baptist i can't drink alcohol and somebody else would say oh well jesus well, Jesus turned water into wine. And you're fighting sola scriptura.
You're fighting by citing different references in a book that is sometimes contradictory, right? And then, but the real spiritual traditions, remember Christianity started out as a mystical tradition. We look at now as, oh, here's the Bible and the Bible is the word of God.
And you realize, no, the Ethiopian Orthodox Christians have books of the Bible in there that you haven't even read, right? You guys are still fighting over whether the book of Enoch is real or not, right? What are you doing? You think you have the answer? Is it? Do you think? Oh, for sure. I think it is.
And what I've learned is that you can learn from the heart. You have to learn how to think from the heart, rediscover beyond your own conscious, but realize that your heart has its own intelligence, which I thought would be woo-woo, kind of laughable stuff, right? I'd read these books like The Four Agreements.
Sanwell Luis, I think his name is, Don Miguel San Luis. I would read Paul Coelho and I would think, oh, what a bunch of, to be honest, like what a bunch of pussiesies Right, come on.
I'm a man. I don't want to read about my heart I don't want to read about crying.
What a fucking what a bunch of pussies, you know, who are these people, right? Honestly, that was my Reaction and assessment of a lot of the stuff and then I realized that was my own foolish pride my own hubris That I was realizing that I was afraid of the heart I was not strong. I was weak because of my own foolish pride, my own hubris.
That I was realizing that I was afraid of the heart. I was not strong.
I was weak. Because in my own mind, I convinced myself to hide from the heart because the heart is a source of your pain, also the source of your great joy and love, right? So if you live in mind and you live in ego, you constantly paper over heart.
And you think that's because you're strong. I'm a real man.
I don't cry, right? Where'd that come from? You're a real man. You don't cry.
Why are you afraid of crying? I'm not afraid of crying. That's an interesting reaction.
Right? So as you do, as you study the more of the mysticism and the real spiritual traditions and how it was practiced, then you realize that the heart is its own intelligence. And then you're trying to rediscover the intelligence of the heart.
And once you rediscover the intelligence of the heart, that's the higher morality. The higher morality isn't the words we create, the rules we draft out.
The higher morality is in your heart. But we become so disconnected and detached from the heart that that sounds ridiculous or it sounds like pussy shit, you know, woo-woo pussy shit, right? It doesn't, in my hearing anyway, but it does raise the vital question, you know, what does good look like? You've described evil, but so how do we know that the impulses of our heart are the right impulses? Yeah.
Good is love. Good is human flourishing.
Good is flowers blooming. Evil is wheat fields being cut down in Ukraine as people kill each other.
People who are brothers separated by a line in the sand kill each other. There's no flowers.
There's no children dancing. There's no gardens flourishing, right? That's evil.
It's love is human flourishing flowers blooming children laughing right c.s lewis once said that it was a great feeling of his that he didn't find the laughter of children satisfying he found it kind of annoying right yes and he'd never had children right but he had but even not having them he realized that he was missing because that's heart yes heart is you hear a kid crying on a plane oh i hope the kid's all right yeah me being an asshole shut your fucking kid up don't you control your kid you're weak you know yeah that's the the ego the male and it's that part of me that i was trying to get away from and that i've been still trying to get away from, right? The male egos worship me. I'm so great.
I'm so relevant. Share my stuff, read my stuff.
Oh, the president read this. I know this guy and this guy is important and that's the male ego.
And that'll just spin you out of control forever. And then the heart is, man, I kind of snapped on my kid.
I feel bad. I hope my kid's okay.
I shouldn't have snapped on my kid why did i snap on my kid oh because i was in that moment the kid was marrying something about myself i don't like that's that's the truest thing right there will you explain that a little more well we and this goes back to even aristotle why we why we judge and we often judge harshest and others that which we don like about ourselves. But often we're in denial about those aspects of ourselves.
And so we don't even realize that we're doing it. We're judging them because we don't like that part of ourself.
And you don't realize, no, it's that part of yourself that's broken. That's what you want to fix, right? That's what you want to think about.
And unfortunately, not enough people talk about it or it sounds woo-woo or you get down a certain tradition or you're- Well, that's just the most obvious and real thing ever for every parent. I mean, if you like your wife, I speak for myself, when I see my wife's good qualities reflected in my children, I love it.
When I see my bad qualities reflected in my children, it drives me crazy. Right.
And then, so what do you take away from that when that happens? That, you know, I should be more patient and less judgmental. And in fact, if a child is displaying one of your ugly qualities, you know what it's like to struggle with that quality.
So you should be more compassionate. But of course, I'm speaking for myself, I'm less.
I hate that. Right.
So I think that some language that I found that was useful

in what you're dealing with and deal with

and what we'll always deal with for the rest of our lives

is a lot of our work as parents is closing those loops

of childhood trauma

or closing the loop of whatever your issue is, right?

Because the way we perpetuate momentically

our worst parts of ourselves is through raising our children, right? And what I we perpetuate momentically, our worst parts of ourselves is

through raising our children, right? And what I try to think of is closing the loop. And when I see something in my kid that bothers me or triggers something in me, I think, well, why is that happening? And then I think, how can I have that child not continue this, right? How do you how do you break that? How do you break that cycle? And how do you, how do you close that loop?

And I think that becomes a lot more important than getting people elected into office. And I think if more of us did that- Well, how do you do that? You see something ugly in your child that you know comes from you.
You've transmitted something either genetically or through conditioning to your child, whom you love most in the world, of course, that is like bad. How do you fix that? Well, the more you've learned about yourself, the more that you can transmit the knowledge to kids.
I'll give you a very basic example. My firstborn has first child energy.
And that's very nice. First child energy is leadership, knowledge, often giftedness, inquisitiveness.
She's always reading books. She had this little Rubik's Cube.
And now she's saying, dad, can we watch a YouTube video on how to solve the Rubik's Cube? All great energy, firstborn energy. But a lot of firstborn kids, because they're put into that role maybe that we as parents have to watch out for of being a caregiver for other children that's right we want to ask ourselves one am i robbing my daughter of the magic of childhood and the wonder of childhood hey go watch your brother i gotta do this right maybe i'm robbing her of the wonder of childhood okay i need to calibrate that sometimes they do got you know life is life right sometimes you have to do what you have to do but at least i'm robbing her of the wonder of childhood.
Okay. I need to calibrate that sometimes they do got you know Life is life, right? Sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but at least i'm mindful of that or Am I having her grow up too fast? Okay.
Why don't I just take a walk with her one-on-one Just take a walk and just talk with my daughter just about her What's going on in her mind? Let her ramble on Let her talk about what she finds interesting. Don't don't ask questions or try to direct the conversation just kind of like let it flow and then when you're doing that you're closing the loop of a because in my case i didn't i was sort of robbed of my childhood a lot of ways and because i wanted to grow up i don't want to get out of the situation and you realize no you're letting them be a kid they still have to we all have to live together and it isn't perfect all the time, but you're letting a kid be a kid.
Or another thing first children do is because they have to look at the wellbeing of everyone, they'll negotiate against themselves, right? My daughter, I don't know if I'm going to ask for this, dad. What do you want to ask for? She's like, well, I don't know if I should ask for it because I think my other, my sister, I think wants ice cream, but I really want this.
And I would say, well, don't negotiate against yourself. Ask for what you want.
I can still tell you no, maybe it won't work out, but let's close that loop. Cause I noticed that I would negotiate myself against myself sometimes in business dealings.
And it was something my wife would point out where, especially because I was never really like a greedy money-driven person, a lot of times I would be more compliant than you would expect giving my personality, right? Giving my personality, you might think, put a dollar on the table and he's going to fight me. I'm thinking, why are we fighting over a dollar? This is stupid.
Real, this is dumb, but people will take advantage of that, right? So I had to learn much later in life, unfortunately, into my 30s. And even now, in my late 40s, I had to learn, no, no, you don't negotiate against yourself.
Don't worry about them. They're worried about themselves.
They're self-interested actors. They're going to try to get as much as they can out of you.
Let them worry about themselves. You worry about yourself.
And I realized, oh, that's first child energy because I was always worried about, is everybody okay? Is everybody doing all right within the family realm? Well, keep that to your family. So with my firstborn, I do want you to negotiate against yourself with the family.
I want you to think about everybody with the family, but I want you to know what you're doing and then have tools to know that when you're going into business or you're doing dealings with other people put that energy aside right how old is this child seven and a half does she understand oh yeah yeah yeah she's a old soul yeah so a lot of my a lot of my virtues but a lot of my existential dread i had a had a lot of existential dread at a very young age. So one day, for example, she was maybe five or six, but she was young.
I remember she was young and I was waiting for this and hoping it wouldn't happen. We were hanging out one day and she goes, dad, I feel weird.
Why do we have bodies? I thought, oh man, oh no. The genetic, whatever spiritual curse or blessing that has been passed on for all of these centuries or millennia is with her because that was very much how I felt like a kid.
I felt like this body isn't mine. Why am I here? This doesn't make make any sense i've always felt alienated from my animalistic materialistic body i've always felt like it was weird that we had bodies i was a gnostic as an early kid what is this thing that i'm what torture am i being subjected to by having to live in a body right and there was nobody i could talk to about this kind of stuff they lock you up like a nut house right sounds like a nutty thing and i was like so i told shauna i said well she's asking you know she's asking these kind of questions now but i'm able to treat them differently maybe than it would have been when i was a kid or maybe then i would have have been treated when I was a kid.
What did you say? I said, it's weird, isn't it? What are these things? Flapping around, right? It feels weird to be kind of disconnected and alienated from your body. And we're here on a spiritual mission.
And that's why we're in these bodies. These bodies are part of the spiritual mission that we've been sent on for since the beginning of time and that we're on a spiritual mission to discover the mystery of the human bodies we're on and we're on a mission to elevate humanity and to elevate the human condition and you have these gifts but along with that comes the responsibility to elevate the human condition and to elevate society but that it is weird it's normal to feel you told your seven-year-old she had a an obligation to elevate the human condition when she was five four and a half oh yeah light times in the sort of it how did she respond she said okay okay dad yeah i don't know that she did because i don't want Of course.
Right, but she's like, okay, dad. How'd you get over, you were telling me at dinner last night, I won't betray anything, that's up to you, but I think it's fair to say you had a stupendously shitty childhood, like almost never really heard a story like that before.
You don't seem, you wear it very lightly. You don't seem tormented by it.
How'd you get over that? Reading a lot of self-help books and yeah, yeah. Nothing, nothing deeper than that.
Realizing that your past isn't what defines you. The lowest thing that happened to you isn't how you define yourself.
And then that's what brought me into media was the brain is inherently, there's a great book on this Wired for Story. We're obsessed with stories, right? Campfire, tell me a story.
Let's regale ourselves of stories. That's how we transmit knowledge, but with our own brain that gets hijacked because we tell ourselves certain stories and then we often frame them in the most miserable, disempowering way.
So me, I define as the story of my childhood, man, that was wild and I got out of there alive. What a trip.
And you can define it that way. Or you can define it as, here are all these things that happened to me.
I'm garbage. I don't matter.
I'm scum. I don't deserve love.
I don't deserve good things in life. And then you can define that as your story and if you define that as your story that's the path to despair that's the pathway to So you made a conscious decision to see your childhood as this kind of maelstrom that you escaped and feel grateful for that it's this thing that happened to me and then if I want to give in the ego it's a great thing that i overcame or if i want to forgive people and love people i can say my dad worked shitty factory jobs never cheated on my mom never smoked a cigarette never hit us other than the traditional spanking culture that existed at the time never got drunk never he never did anything and he did the best that he could with the knowledge

that he had. And what a sacrifice did he have.
And am I grateful enough as a son to appreciate that, to understand what it would be like to be broke, to be on welfare a little bit, the shame that a man must feel when he loses a job. My goodness, what did my dad go through? It's not again on my own myopia.

Remember, you know, we always want to define the world larger than ourselves. The more we focus on ourself, the smaller we define the world, then every problem is so big.
That's right. Right? So then I think, oh man, how hard was that? How generous was it that my grandparents paid off the mortgage of the house? Because that was a $200 a month payment, which was a ton of money back then.
And how different would my childhood have been? And how lucky am I that I got out? And how many things could have gone wrong in my life? And completely all through the course of my life. So, hey, buddy, you're so proud of yourself.
You think you're such a great overcomer. How much luck was there? How much of that was divinely inspired? Maybe a little bit of it was.
Maybe you need to get over yourself. Maybe you need to get over your little pity party and realize that things could have gone a lot differently, right? So I'm always consciously reframing the story of myself and the narrative of my life in a way that is that is zooming out wider and looking at what were other people's problems what were they you do I mean a friend of mine you know you do ayahuasca he was beat up as a kid and he was um you know he had ayahuasca experience and he saw himself getting beat up as a kid and he saw his dad, but he saw that his dad was beat up as a kid.
And he was like, oh my God, my dad was beat up as a kid. Holy shit.
That's why he did it. And it doesn't excuse the child abuse, but when you zoom out and you realize that was what has happened, then you don't blame yourself.
And then if you don't blame yourself, you can forgive yourself, right? Because it's not that you're unworthy. It's not that you don't deserve love.
It's that that person felt that way and they transmitted that knowledge in a really horrific way. And then you're allowed to forgive them and then you're allowed to move on and you're allowed to heal yourself because it wasn't really your issue, right? And often these realizations are, it's very easy to talk about like it's nothing, but when you're in the shit, when you're in the work, these are not easy conversations to have with yourself.
So I get in the shit and I go into those places and I go into the darkest experiences that have happened to me. And then I do feel that torment.
I do feel like I'm being attacked. And then, you know, the only way out is through and you just keep going through it.
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Coming soon to Gilroy. What's going on with whites? And not just in this country, but in every white majority country, whites are becoming the minority.
They're hated. They hate themselves.
They're not reproducing. And the amount of energy expended by our leaders sort of openly disparaging them, encouraging them effectively to kill themselves or to want to kill themselves is overwhelming.
I'm not saying this as a white man, though obviously I am, but it's just, it's very striking and it's global. What is that? I had a weird experience when I was in South Africa visiting.
And in South Africa, you have basically a cell. You lock yourself in a cell when you go into apartments So you get an Airbnb, you open the outside cage, you go in and then you open another cage to go into the bedroom and then you lock that cage.
You have to have all of these layers of protection. And I remember talking to some white South Africans about that and they go, oh, well, it's just payback for apartheid.
And they shrugged it off. And I said, I can understand maybe a little bit of looting as payback for apartheid.
I can understand a little corruption as payback. But horrific violent crimes is not a proportionate response to something that people did before you were even born.
And ever since then, I've been struck with the mystery of this collective racial guilt that white people carry around that nobody else does. If you look at any other ethnic or racial group, no one carries around this strange guilt for sins that were committed before you were ever born.
And I don't understand it. I don't understand where that comes from.
I don't understand the biological basis for it, the spiritual basis for it, because carrying around collective guilt, racial guilt is actually anti-Christian. It doesn't make any sense at all.
And it's a knot that I haven't been able to unravel. I mean, it does seem like they're disappearing, just like as a numbers matter.
And even saying that is forbidden, which itself is really revealing. I mean, if this were true of Comanches or Aleutian Islanders or Han Chinese, if they were diminishing in number really strikingly, really quickly over a short period of time, you'd be like, what the hell's going on with Filipinos? You know what I mean? They're not reproducing.
Everyone hates them. They're dying.
But even to say that about whites is like somehow bad or something and that tells you that we've all internalized this hate white people thing you really don't know where that comes from well a great example of that is that if you look at gun deaths this is how they they bring the stats on deaths they go oh there's 50 000 gun deaths a year when you look at it it's suicide it's almost exclusively white male suicide via firearm and i always said that if you really cared about gun deaths you would immediately do an intervention into white male suicide because that is the primary usage of you know white men who've killed themselves personally not personally no i know a friend who had an overdose with uh opioids so i guess i know a lot i mean i'm probably i'm several years older than you um but i know a lot i know like five at least so yeah that's that's interesting right so if you cared if you cared about gun deaths you would know that the lowest hanging fruit is white male suicide right You would know that you're not going to confiscate people's guns. That would cause a lack of social cohesion that none of us even want to think about.
All of that is fake. The real thing you would go after is gang violence and you'd go after white male suicide if you cared, if you actually cared about gun deaths.
You wouldn't point out the occasional tragic school shooting, which is statistically very even though the horrific when they happen you would say okay we have a gun violence problem to solve how are they being used okay most of the people killing each other with them are gangbangers and then you have white males killing themselves let's do an immediate i mean it's it's to imagine this happening in a world that were logical and not driven by hatred you would see all kinds of interventions public service announcements happening about white male suicide it would be one of the biggest issues people talked about you would say did you have any idea most people don't most people think you're lying about the stats when you tell them oh no half half of the gun deaths that they bring up are suicide and white men are 3.5 times more likely to kill themselves than anyone else and people that can't be true like well you can go black women are the most oppressed group in the united states that is a an article of faith for everybody we hear that every literally every day um but the suicide rate among black women is like negligible. Well, nobody, yeah, nobody's ever been able to square the circle of how media imaging suppresses the self-esteem of black Americans who have almost no suicide.
But it's building up the white self-esteem within the whites of the ones killing themselves. Right.
There's no, there's no logic. Right, so it it's so i guess that's kind of my point is not to whine about it because i hate whining about anything particularly about race however it's so illogical it's so like absurd that it suggests that there's something deeper going on which is people are kind of happy when whites die and that's obviously true oh yeah there's a deep hatred that there's a deep hatred and it would just be it would be a lot easier if i weren't white to to note this because you're a white supremacist if you note it but even that it's like stop complaining about people dying because if you complain about it you're evil or something like that whole formulation is so uh sick yeah you're they the framing is not only you can't talk about it but if you talk about it then you'll be labeled a white nationalist the white supremacist right you're thinking bro i'm talking about suicide i thought you wanted fewer gun deaths right you're telling me that you want fewer gun deaths and i'm telling you here's a way to do that and now you're saying no that's actually racist to say that that's a way to say where does it come from i guess that's my question is where does that impulse come from is it is it envy i mean white men have you know created a lot the overwhelming majority of technological advances for example in the 20th century you know electricity the airplane etc um is it that that makes people angry is it is there something spiritual going on? Like, what is this?

And it does seem to be helpful just to acknowledge that this is absolutely real.

The numbers show it.

The mass migration around the world into majority white countries to make them minority white countries, clearly driven by hate, obviously.

But where's that hate come from?

What is that?

The ethnic groups have always hated each other.

Like, the Rwandan genocide for me was always a hard thing to wrap my Americanized brain around. Yes, yes.
Because if you're American, your whole world is, there's white people, black people. And once you go there, no, no, they- No, it's so true.
The Cambodians hate the Vietnamese and the Thais and Vietnamese hate each other. I remember- Everyone hates the Chinese in Southeast Asia.
Right, I got it. And then the Han Chinese hate the other Chinese, right? Yes.
So anywhere you look, there's always been ethnic strife. And I think that that's why the agenda, the anti-human agenda is to just cram as many different people together as they possibly can, knowing that this will create some kind of strife.
So there can't be order, right?

So if you look at, I look at it again, real or metaphorically, demons are chaos, God is

logos, God is order.

Yes.

Right?

So when you look at forces driving chaos, then you can usually say that's the anti-human,

that's the demonic element.

Because again, the demons don't care who comes up ahead. If the demons could somehow inside a race war, they don't care what side wins.
They only care that a lot of people kill each other, that there's a lot of despair, that there's a lot of suffering, that they can harvest a lot of that negative energy. That's all they care about.
So then when we talk about these issues, for me, it's always challenging because one, you don't want to make people feel persecuted. You don't want to make people feel oppressed.
That is exactly right. Yes.
I totally agree. Can we just pause for a second? I've struggled with this a lot as I've watched the anti-white hate kind of define our country and destroy a lot of people I know.
It's hard to talk about because I care about being called a racist. I'm not a racist.
I don't care if they call me that, but because I don't want to inspire self-pity or a sense of persecution of people because it's really bad for people that's exactly right right and then it can add to the tribalism well totally which we don't you don't yeah you don't want white men thinking oh boy they're out to get us and now i agree so a lot of times you throw your hand up and you're thinking how do i even how do you handle these how do you address it yes yes it is an issue opioid overdose deaths are an issue and the way that i try to address it in a spiritual way is i try to focus on a general aspirational message so i get into the weeds on politics i get in the mud i'm not claiming to be some great guru or whatever but i always if you read me long enough, you know that I, generally speaking, believe that if you decide to not be a loser, you can live a good life. You're not going to maybe live your dream life.
You're not going to be in the Yankees. I was never on the Yankees.
I'm not Alex Rodriguez. That's fine.
You can just accept that you're not going to be that. But if you decide, you know what, I just don't want to be some pathetic loser, angry all day about politics, getting fat with my mom who has enabled this behavior.
And if you read me along enough, you know, like, I believe in you. I don't think, I'm not going to sell you a lie and tell you that you're going to be anything that you can want to be because that isn't the way embodiment works.
But you can live a good life And there's a lot to be said for just living a good life, right? There's a lot to be said for living a nice, normal life. And so for me, instead of focusing on a lot of the tension issues, I do point them out and identify them, but it's always about, look, man, it starts with you.
The system is rigged. My dad didn't get a job because of affirmative action, a state police job.
That was proven when there was a class action settlement. I can point to real things that have happened, racialized issues where we were on the receiving end of the oppression.
But if that's all you think about is the world is rigged, I can't really do anything. Now you're given into despair.
The world is rigged. It's always been rigged, bro.
World War I, you're going to get drafted and thrown in to

fight in Europe and the trenches because the French and the English can't get along and the

Germans and the Australian Hungarians are beefing again because the European, right?

So the timeline is always helpful too at the micro level. At the micro level, you think, and this is the message I kind of always teach, it's usually directed towards men, is there are a lot of people who are despair mongers.
And they want you to think that all women are terrible. You're a white man.
You're oppressed. Nothing you do matters.
Everything is going to be- Or you're an oppressor. Yeah, or you're an oppressor.
Feel guilty about that. There's a whole different way to spin it.
Whereas I just start from the proposition, hey, just decide you don't want to be a loser and take the first step. So let's get specific.
I love the way you're seeing this because you're absolutely right. I think it's fair to acknowledge what's actually happening.
I don't think you should ever lie. It diminishes you to lie.
Lying is evil. On the other hand, marinating in it clearly doesn't help.
So you're a 19-year-old American man. A lot of things are, factually speaking, stacked against you, but you don't want to be a loser and be mad about politics and fat and living with your mom, as you so nicely described.
What do you do and what do you avoid? Yeah, the biggest thing you want to avoid is that enabling pattern of behavior because most of these guys didn't have a dad figure or their dad was kind of some cucked, checked out guy. And so as bad as my childhood was in a lot of ways, my dad did make me take martial arts when I was getting bullied.
He did say like, well,'re getting bullied you got to like do martial arts and it was just very matter of fact that was because that was the old school kind of masculine thing which is i mean you're a chubby kid you're getting picked on you got to learn how to fight and it's going to have to fight people and that's just the way it's going to be yes right that's what i was whereas whereas the mom the feminine wants to nurture right which is good but then that also enables so everything if you look at things energetically the masculine draws boundaries but then it can become too harsh and unforgiving right and that's why god has man and woman but the woman will enable oh baby boy oh you're sad oh let me give you some ice cream oh no you have a bad day right so you have to have that duality of energy, that struggle that creates a complete person or a whole person. So if you're 19, you would just want to have a, everything starts with you with a piece of paper and a pen and you're just assessing where your life is, right? And you're asking yourself, I don't know, was I enabled by a overly nurturing mother? Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe your problem's different. Maybe your dad was a dick and he didn't give you love.
And so now you struggle with love and you're too harsh, right? Whatever it is. But you just sit down and you start assessing where you are in life, realizing that, especially if you're 19, everybody who's old and rich would love to be 19 again.
One, you have all the wealth in the world, even if you don't think of it that way. And somebody told me that when I was younger.
Warren Buffett trades places with you in a second. Here, you can be me as an 80-year-old billionaire, and I'll be 19 again with whatever bad position you're in.
Would you take the deal? Every billionaire would. You think Bill Gates wouldn't take that deal? That's why they're all obsessed with transhumanism.
They're trying to figure out a way to get into younger bodies, right? That's what ultimately transhumanism is about, is the fear of mortality, the rejection of God, the rejection of the infinite. So in your own mind, you're thinking, how can I be in a younger body? So one is like, what are you crying about, bro? Right? What are you crying about? You have time to fix it.
It's going to take five years. Get on a five-year timeline.
Everybody's on this short timeline, right? If you're in a bad position, and you've probably seen this with people who, when they give in despair, they're just not thinking of the timeline. So, oh, your business failed.
Okay, you're probably going to be broke, dude, for a couple of years. You're not going to be like not broke in a day, but you're not going to be broke in five years if you set yourself on the right path or like whatever your problem is.
It's just going to take time, bro. It's going to take five years, but start taking immediate action right now in whatever way you can.
For me, the easiest thing in the world to do if you're a young man, just start reading old books. I said, just what books? Go look up the great books of Western civilization.
Read 100 great books. Go to the gym four times a week.
Call me in a year. You won't call me in a year because you'll be kind of figuring things out, right? So what happens is, and again, I blame i blame narrative i'm actually i learned a lot from the post-modernists even though they're often attacked on the right the idea of post-modernism and examining narrative structures and how narrative structures control thought so the narrative structure is you're a man you find the green hornet ring and you become some kind of superhero.
Or you're a man and your long lost father is actually half God and he's going to send you on this hero's journey and they're going to send you your sword and shield, right? If you look at mythology and you look at the narrative structure people have, there's, even if people don't recognize it, they will now if they listen, unconsciously you believe someone's going to save you. The mentor appears.
If you look at the hero with a thousand faces, if you look at the hero, you look at all these narrative structures embedded in our unconscious is, oh, I'm kind of sitting at home. I'm Anakin Skywalker on a desert island, orphaned, adopted, whatever the case is.
Oh, the Jedis find me. The Jedis train me.
And then I go on my journey. The mentor appears.
Bro, the mentor doesn't appear. That's fake.
Okay? So get it out of your mind that the mentor is going to appear and rescue you from your situation. You got to be your own mentor, right? And then once you start from that at a deep level, realizing nobody's coming to save you, and that's fine.
That shouldn't make you afraid. You have to realize that was what's holding you back because you kept waiting for the great awakening, the great moment to appear.
It's not going to happen. You're just going to get older and decay and give into entropy.
So you're your own mentor. Go read the great books of Western civilization.
Go to the gym three, four times a week, and then tell me where you are in a year and by that time you'll you'll find your path but you have to believe that you can find the path right and nobody will do that what are what are the traps the stumbling blocks along the way for young men thousands you get somebody pregnant you lose yourself you drink i don't think anyone gets anyone pregnant anymore unwanted teen pregnancies are still happening i mean people are still fornicating even if on our side of the internet there's there's more abortions happening so the and more celibacy involuntary but the top guys are having more women there there's more involuntary celibacy but you want to look at charles munger had a good line um don't race trains or do cocaine. And the message, the sentiment of that was, if you're sending a young man on his path, you want to say, here are the big things that you don't want to do.
You don't want to get a woman, the wrong woman pregnant. You're with her if she doesn't have an abortion for 20, 25.
You are tied now to that person quantumly, cosmically, and materially and physically for decades now. So you don't want to do that.
That's a big problem. You don't want to do that.
You don't want to kill yourself. You don't want to drive your car drunk.
You don't want to race cars. You don't want to race a train.
Can I beat the train, right? You don't want to jump off cliffs, off 50 feet into water. You don't know how deep it is, is.
But as glib, and I don't mean to be glib, but that's how much belief I have in young men to know that, hey, here's some guardrails. Figure it out, dude.
Just start reading books. Go to the gym because then what'll happen? People are afraid to let things emerge organically.
The male brain, and I've seen this with people I know who are incredibly

successful, but no kids, because in their brain, they talk about everything that can go wrong.

Oh, well, what if I get married to this woman? She divorces me, and their brain spirals. They've

created a thousand new problems that one, you're going to have problems anyway. You're going to

have problems anyway. Of course it's going to happen.
What if I start a business? I mean, yeah, you're going to have a payroll problem at some point. You might have to get a line of credit.
There are ways to do it. You're going to lose sleep because you might think you might go bankrupt, and you might think people are going to make fun of you, and you might feel like, why did I do this? Yes, all of this is going to happen.
Who gives a fuck? It's like you want to just shake these guys. Well, so you're describing what what strikes me as the bigger problem so the examples that you gave a second ago were all sort of unbridled masculine energy needing as you said guardrails right don't drive drunk or jump off cliffs i don't see any cliff diving or impregnating going on i at least in the class of people that i'm around it and maybe it're from different roles, maybe that's it.
But it seems like young men are afraid. They're too cautious.
They have some sort of hormonal imbalance that makes them more female, more, I don't know, less likely to take big risks. Yeah, I can't save them.
I tell them to go to church. They're churches.
They're institutions that help those people. So in terms of my messaging, I always think about who I'm writing for.
Why am I doing what I'm doing? Why am I wasting my time doing this bullshit? Where I get attacked, smeared, called every kind of name, got investigated by Mueller, know that I'm on the regime's target. What the fuck am I doing doing? This is stupid, right? I could just go live a nice quiet life, disappear off the face of the earth, smoke cigars all day, hang out with my kids, go to the gym.
What do I'm doing? Why am I doing this? And the answer is because I'm writing for who I was when I was 19, 20, 21. Just tell me what to do, bro.
Give me the playbook. I'll figure it out.
Give me the playbook i'll figure it out give me the playbook i'm not

for the guy who i'm so depressed the world is so rigged i'm gonna go watch anti-semitic podcasts all day because the jews the jews are holding me down you know those are not my people those are lost souls and it isn't my spiritual obligation to reach them that's the obligation of church. That's the obligations of pastors because I'm not caring enough to reach them, right? I don't want to hear how you're a sad panda.
That you're just, right? I'm not the right person for you. There are people who are the right people for you.
Go walk into a church. I'm afraid I'll feel awkward to go to church.
It's like,, for what? Give me a break, dude. At some point with these people, you wonder how we're enabling them by talking about all those systemic problems, which are real, but realizing go to a church.
That's why pastors exist, to nurture you, to kind of put you on the right direction, to deal with your fucking beta cuck bullshit. But that's not for me.
I'm not here to save your soul. That's the church.
The church is there to save your soul. I'm here to take someone who's maybe had kind of a fucked up home life, maybe has had a wrong turn in life, but they will do things, but they don't have the knowledge, right? So I'm thinking, how can I give them knowledge? What do I wish somebody had told me? What's the knowledge you need? What are the pitfalls that you want to avoid? Here you go.
Here's a one-page

piece of paper. Follow the instructions, and then you're not going to need me because you're the

mentor. You're the mentor.
Your own mentor has appeared in your own minds. You are your mentor,

right? That's the narrative structure. And then go on your hero's journey.
And in your hero's

journey, you're going to have peril. Don't tell me, what if I marry this woman and she divorces

in the right? That's the narrative structure. And then go on your hero's journey.
And in your hero's journey, you're going to have peril. Don't tell me, what if I marry this woman and she divorces me? Well, what if you don't marry her and you get in a car crash and you lose a leg? What are you doing? Worrying around like a worrywart? Go join a knitting circle, right? Go join a knitting society.
Oh, I'm so, whatever. That's called chewing the fat, right it used to be cut um kind of an insult right you'd call somebody a bubble boy or you're like oh they're just sitting around chewing the fat like cows with cud in their mouth right and you're thinking well sure all these things can happen and in business i've lost sleep thought we're gonna go bankrupt and i ruined my life do i have to cash in my retirement account to keep things going Who gives a shit? Of course you're going to go through that, right? Of course.
But then I know people who had great jobs that just got downsized one day and then they had nothing and now they have to rebuild their life at 50, right? You think having a business is hard. How about you rebuild your life bankrupt at 50, right? That's hard.
And but like, again, it all comes back to like, what are you going to do?

Just sit around, mope around all day. And there's too much enabling of the moping around behavior.
Do you think that, but it is a line though, and it's hard to know exactly where it is between sort of ignoring the systems that are repressing you,

which are real,

and then feeling hopeless and whiny and self-pitying because they're, like, you need to push back against injustice, but you can't allow the existence of injustice to make you feel, you know, hopeless. people had kids during the great depression yeah right.
Right. The Great Depression, 20% unemployment rate, soup kitchens, men with their dignity, trying to keep their dignity as they can't feed their family.
Real problems, man. This shit that we're going through right now isn't good.
There are problems that are real, but in the scheme of humanity and the length of humanity, we're not dealing with shit, bro. We're not dealing with anything, right? Oh, life is...
So are you in line for a soup kitchen? Wondering if your kids are going to starve? Do you have to sell a kid? In Cambodia, they can't feed their kids, right? We can take you to other parts of the world. And that isn't a way of excusing the excesses of the regime because I fight the regime.
I'm a target of the regime. been smeared in every kind of publication right but that doesn't mean i sit around all day thinking that i can't do anything you still have to have that no that's totally right why are you against porn ayahuasca i i think most people who participate in porn were molested as kids So then that puts you downstream of the pedophile cycle of behavior.

So for me, my heart just breaks that people do it because I went from a – somebody – the ego is self-satisfying, right? That's what the ego wants to do, validation and self-satisfaction. And you realize that these are broken people and you're participating in the spiritual damage that was done to them and you're spiritually damaging yourself.
So it isn't, oh, this is sin, you're going to go to hell, God's going to strike you down with thunder. It's more, you're damaging yourself spiritually when you engage with this material.
And that person is even way more damaged and now you're caught in this cycle of molestation and problems that these people have dealt with so why in the world would you want to be downstream of that level of trauma right that cosmic trauma get the hell get the hell out of that and you didn't see that before no no because i was just look i was in cultured we were all groomed okay there was a you know grooming is a big term now and everybody blames it on drag queen story or whatever i watched a documentary on woodstock 99 it was the the redo of woodstock and there was a point in there a subplot and it was deliberate by the documentary filmmaker, because I understand propaganda. I know when they're propagandizing, but they were right.
It was very much when you were of my era, Gen X. Oh, Girl's Gone Wild, show us your tits.
Oh, they're going to Mardi Gras. Everybody get drunk, show your tits.
That's vulgar. I look at that now as vulgar and disgusting, but that was completely on us howard sterman do a radio show oh mary kate ashley olson olson they're 14 when do they turn 18 sexualizing a 14 year old but it's like what david foster wall said does a fish know that it's in water right when you're in water you don't know you're in water you know when you're out of the water right when you're you don't know.
We were all swimming in a sewer, not realizing that we are being groomed to fornicate, to sexualize people who are way too young to be sexualized. And that was all being groomed on us.
So that just becomes like a normal thing. Oh yeah, girl's going wild.
Oh yeah, girl gets drunk, shows her tits. She probably, that's probably the lowest point of her life doing that when the videos come in and she's sober but if you don't have a higher awareness you're just another participant in the bacchanal carnival of degeneracy right but you don't realize it because you're swimming in that filth and then as i've tried to get out of that sewer and as i work more and more to to sanctify and purify my heart you realize how could I watch this? So for me, it didn't even take willpower to not watch it.
I just said, how could I watch this? My heart says, you can't watch this. And I was like, okay.
So five, six, seven years ago, whatever. I was like, I can't watch this anymore.
And that was it. It wasn't a struggle.
It wasn't hard. And that's where, you know, we talked earlier about the difference between the heart and the mind.
And relearning that the heart is its own form of consciousness, its own form of intelligence. The more you live in your heart, the less willpower it takes.
It doesn't take willpower to refuse to participate in cycles of trauma when your heart is talking because your heart would say what are we doing but if it's your mind you think oh man i've i got a few minutes to blow off i'm kind of bored i'll let you see what's new and then of course it's been proven that the when they watch pornography you watch worse and worse stuff you don't start with the national geographic topless pics of the tribes you know and then you end there you start there and you end it just really sketchy stuff right and what so that tells you right there that it's demonic because if it were satiating if pornography were satiating you would say okay here's a 70s era bad movie, she comes in and she's pretty. And there was a certain,

at least elegance or art to it.

You would be fine ending there.

How many people end there, right?

It's a gateway that keeps corrupting the soul.

So I'm interested in what you said,

that you know it's demonic

because it doesn't satisfy you.

Right.

Explain that.

What does that mean?

The demons don't want you to have inner peace.

The worst problem for the forces of evil, the demons for the negative energy is when you're existing in a state of love and you're existing in a state of flow of light of being of lightness that's the worst thing in the world for the demons because that's how they lose you they want to they want to drag you down into the muck as much as they can and take you as low as they can because then you feel like you can't be reached you can't be helped you've gone too far right so you once you realize the spiritual component of it too you think oh you motherfucker i know what you're doing you know they give you a wandering eye so so it would it be fair to say, according to this principle, that if something doesn't satisfy you, that it's bad? If it doesn't satiate, you're probably leaving the realm of the spiritual space that you want to occupy if it's not satiating right and for other people struggle with different things

for some people it can be food for some people it can be drugs sex opioid yes sex right so any

kind of sex that um doesn't satiate you doesn't satisfy you probably not the sex you should be

having it's probably leading you down the bad path do you think people are becoming more spiritually aware in the united states i think that more conversations are being had as more as more people who are fringe or not fringe open these conversations so like i think about in two ways one is i know that in my spiritual awakening such as it is which i'm still baby in terms of the cosmic timeline is i said you know i never believed in god but you guys showed me the devil is real right i felt the same way so way. So something's up, bro.
I don't know what it is. That's exactly right.
I don't know. Jesus Christ is the son of God and he returned and he's a Messiah and that's your only path to salvation and da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Right? Okay. We can have, that never called to me.
That was never where I said, okay, I believe in God and this is the truth, but I go, oh, the evil is so overt.

Obviously, I've been blinded spiritually for some reason.

So obviously, there's something else going on here that isn't really good. That is so precisely what happened to me that I wonder how many other people that's happened to, A, and B, I wonder if the existence or the overt nature of evil isn't a kind of blessing.

Well, I mean, if you go in the spirit, will they tell you you can't have light without dark? that's one of the

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That's one of the principles, I guess,

of the spirit world is you can't have light without dark

and darkness brings people to light.

And if you really do believe in God,

then, and you do really believe in the infinite,

you realize that everybody's kind of,

kind of has a different path to the light. Well, maybe a better way to put it would be God uses evil to draw people to himself.
Or he lets, or it's just what C.S. Lewis and all the Christian apologetics say, which is that he gave us free will and the table was cast, but on the timeline of God, what might seem like insurmountable suffering to us is completely different.
So we don't really know on this world what it means, right? We could say, well, for example, one of the big perplexing problems is the problem of evil, right? The problem of evil, right? And I would say having ventured through the spirit world is that to us it's a problem we should talk about philosophically. but on the spiritual realm, the timeline is so different that the way it would even out by God is incomprehensible to our minds.
So what we think is, why does God allow evil? You say, well, because God's on the infinite timeline and what we perceive evil is over in a flash and that there's a sanctification process and people rejoin God. So we're fighting over this only because we don't understand the spirit world and we don't understand the infinite timelines at play.
So because of that, what we're kind of fussing over is philosophically distracting us from ourselves. So rather than get into the apologetics, why does God allow evil and it's because free will, we're still in mind, right? We're still in mind.
And in heart, you say, what am I doing to sanctify my heart? Is my heart full of lust, pride, evilness? Did I lose my temper today? Right? Am I getting greedy? Am I trying to take advantage in a business deal? Right? What am I doing to sanctify my heart? So a lot of these intellectual discussions, which are valuable to have, and I've read all the books, it's still a distraction. It's the ego's way of distracting from the heart so everything about this whole mind fuck world is the ego keeping you away from your heart so what i try to focus on as much is reawakening the the mind the full consciousness of the human heart in my own human heart what are the disciplines that you use to to achieve that well i say the jesus prayer a lot because i think it's very humbling.
You know, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. And- That's the entirety of the prayer? They're called arrow prayers, quiver prayers, because people overthink prayers, right? Oh, what do I say in my prayers? What do I say? Well, they're just, there's books, you know? Can you repeat that? Yeah, it's Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
And the reason that that has a certain impact on people is because it's a reminder that you do need divine mercy. It's a reminder of your ego thinking you're such hot shit and you're so important and you're so great.
You're such a great man of history, right? You're so important, right? Because me, I struggle with pride. Everybody has a difference than they struggle with.
I don't struggle with sloth. I'm ambitious, right? But then the flip side of that is pride, so I struggle with pride.
So then you're reminding yourself, I need the divine mercy of, I need the divine mercy of God. I need the divine mercy of Christ.
And having, again, seen it through the veil, you realize how inconsequential our troubles are. So for me, that's just, I do that all the time.
And especially before bed, I'm just reminding myself, okay, I need to have mercy on me, a sinner. And not in a judgmental way, but just, you know, what have I done? And then as you do that, you get more reps in, you can catch yourself more because it's all about catching yourself early on, right? Like your kid gets mad and the kids are bickering and they're fighting and you're about to like lose it.
What the fuck? You know, why are my kids fighting or whatever? It helps ground you, right? Helps remind you you need mercy in this moment because you're weak. Otherwise you wouldn't care.
Your kids are bickering. Kids are kids.
They bicker. Who gives a shit, right? Well, I care because my ego tells me that there should be more order or they're disturbing my train of thought or whatever, whatever bullshit my ego has got me wrapped up in.
So then you remind myself, no, I mean, I do need mercy because what a pathetic creature I am losing my temper because kids are bickering because kids are being kids, right? Like, wow, I'm pathetic. Actually, I think I'm so great, but this is pathetic.
What a pitiful human being you are, right? But you're reminding yourself, that's why you need the divine grace and divine love. So we each have four kids.
My oldest is like 30 years older than your youngest. So I'm done with the things that you're doing now.
And I often think to myself and say to my wife, man, am I glad we're not doing that now? We don't have little kids now in this world because it's so hostile to children. I mean, it's like overtly hostile to children.
How, how do you, how do you do that? How do you raise children right now thoughtfully to become the kind of people you want them to be? I don't know that. I don't know know at least in my own experiences that the world is hostile the kids i think that that wave has passed but that's still within the media the media world the dc world what i'm seeing now is a resurgence of very involved dads and very involved parents and there's probably a split where a lot of kids are getting left behind but i would would say I'm seeing way more parents who are like way, way more involved in parenting than my parents were probably than yours.
I guess, no, I would be more precise. Pushing weird sex shit on kids, which when I was a kid would have been cause for gunfire.
Now it just seems everywhere. Right.
Yeah. So the resisting the worldly temptations are what we went through too and didn't realize it britney spears on the tv no that's right right we we've had different spiritual fights we just didn't maybe realize that that we are being groomed that's why i say we were groomed you were groomed i was groomed everybody raised on girl girls gone wild was groomed everybody raised on show me your a song, You and Me, Baby Ain't Nothing But Animals.
Let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel. Very popular song when I was in high school.
Realizing the music was programming you for fornication, for violence, for drugs. We were groomed as bad or worse than the kids were now.
It just, it finally resonated to us in a way that clicks our constructs on maybe what what's too far but we were groomed terribly we just didn't realize it huh that's a that's a wise point and actually there's something kind of comforting about drag times drag queen story hour i mean it's people pissing on each other during pride march in san francisco it's like it's so in your face that you know what it is right so there's there's a a new resurgence happening as a result of that and the spiritual conflict goes on forever it does it doesn't end so what we do personally is we're very much concerned about the bubble we could anybody who tells your kids anybody who tells you don't shelter your kids groomer shelter your kids why do you why why are you telling me not to shelter my kids don't lock your doors at night really okay you're you're an armed robber oh that's weird don't shelter my kids huh okay you know there's a big shelter but there's a shelter yeah and your kids should have shelter. It's how you define it.

And everybody's really concerned about peer groups. For us, the bigger wars are over screen time and how much should kids be allowed to watch TV.
Devices, especially handheld devices, which you try to limit, but then you're on a flight and you give the kid an iPad. So those are the bigger struggles.
What's unfortunate is that the trans mania is primarily hitting the poor people, right? The people who don't have a lot of time, who are very tired, who are very stressed, and they kind of raise their kids on default, right? So if you imagine that it takes a certain amount of leisure time to be politically informed, right?

Aristotle even said you shouldn't be involved in politics until you're 35. Because by that point, maybe you have some leisure time, but before that, you need to live your life and have some kind of achievement, right? So if you're an intact family, which is becoming more rare, dad and mom both work, they come home tired.
Processed food diet because we've transitioned away from where when I grew up, we call it, people find it offensive now. I didn't find it offensive, but you call it peasant food or poverty food.
We ate beans, ham hocks and beans, right? Chicken and dumplings. You would eat things that were cooked.
You would often cook at home. Even if you're poor, you can afford to cook.
And now everybody's raised on processed foods and that's having a lot of problems with, some people claim seed oils are the problem, but whatever the case is, we know that there's a problem with diet that's having a lot of health effects, right? So you eat or you wake up, you get wound up on a donut coffee, you work a little bit, monster energy drink, a lunch of processed food. By the time you get home, you're exhausted, right? And there's your kids and you entrusted your kids to the school.
And you don't have all the time in the world to figure out best parenting practices, right? You're beat down, man. You're just trying to make it.
You're trying to keep your head above water. So the tragedy is that that and it is hitting the rich kids too because i do have a side point on that the tragedy is that this really was hitting the poor kids first so if you go in through the training stuff yeah if you go through any small town i saw the gender bending stuff happening in all these small towns on any kind of small town road trip and then it percolated up to elite opinion and then so did the opioids so remember susan the ceo of youtube who banned conservatives her kid died of overdose opioids in her world because she banned people like me and censored people like me who were anti that the people the forces that were working against those compounds that in their mind oh it can't happen to me we No, you're not, dude.
And she, I always wonder if she has self-awareness, like what she feels at night in a moment of self-awareness, realizing that she created the culture to kill their son. If we're being completely honest, then I don't mind saying that.
That's the truth. She created that culture of the open borders, the drugs coming in, block everybody who's against the open borders, call people who are anti-drug kooks.
Oh, reefer madness, bro. Right? All of that degeneracy has hit the elite now.
So they thought this is going to be something to happen to poor white trash, to use their terms, not mine. They're, oh, whatever.
Who cares about them? And now they're realizing they're not immune to their kids are gender-burning now their kids are on opioids now their kids are doing only fans their kids are addicted to pornography their their boys are having problems launching and becoming active participants in society they're they're dealing with the problems too right so that so that is the predicament but that also might be why there is some kind of hope because people are realizing it's their own interest to get things together. Although, unfortunately, the ideologues of the left were willing to let communism flourish everywhere and seem to be okay with that.
So maybe not. But us on the individual level, the parent level, you want to – we listen to parenting podcasts.
We're always looking for parenting tips. It's just same like if you want to get in shape you listen to gym podcasts right because you're cultivating the habit of the mind on what matters most which is your kids so it's always about staying in tune with the trends and being mindful being mindful of how you're raising them but fundamentally you're protecting your children from this horrible secular world.
What do you do about school? We do homeschool. We take them to a homeschool club.
So homeschool now is a beautiful, there's a revolution thanks to, ironically enough, COVID. So COVID, the only reason we're having these conversations is because of the COVID lockdowns, which shows good can emerge from evil if the covid lockdowns hadn't happened nobody would know anything about these schools right people don't think about that people go oh the lockdowns destroy the country the lockdowns harm the country in many ways but we would not have known any of these problems were happening in school if people didn't have zoom school, right? So Zoom school happens, people start paying attention, and then they're pulling their kids out of school.
There's more homeschoolers now than there's ever been. Because they're finding out what the teachers are actually saying.
And that they're not even learning. You're realizing, I'm sending my kids to daycare.
Maybe we can find a way to make this work financially for my wife to stay home. Or maybe we can find some kind solution so what became kind of popular is a homeschool co-optic home homeschool pod how does it work you pull money together and you hire teachers so let's say your kids were in school there's teachers who want out of the public school system and you you have three to five friends and you say well why don't we just hire the teacher to teach our kids right so right? So it's not really homeschool.
You're making your own school, it sounds like. Yeah, but you do it part-time and then you school them at the house too.
So the biggest misconception of homeschooling is that you're like a little house on the prairie and your kids are on a bench and you're the mom in the front right on the chalkboard. That was never homeschooling.
Anyway, homeschooling was always self-directed, teaching kids how to teach themselves and

then helping them coach them along through the material as they struggle with it. But kids are generally naturally curious and will figure things out in their own way, but you're providing them enough structure to make sure that they just don't play outside.
I'm embarrassed I don't know more about this. Of course, I love the sound of it, but how common is it for friends or neighbors to get together, pool their money and hire a teacher? In Austin, Silicon Valley, and in certain areas, I wouldn't call it common, but it's not anything that would be way off the beaten path.
Are you doing that? We do something similar. Yeah.
There was a structure created and we pay tuition. So we pay whatever fees and then there's a nonprofit attached to it.
So we donated to the nonprofit. So remember Elon Musk got quote unquote in trouble because they said he gave all this money to a nonprofit, but the nonprofit teaches his kids.
And you're like, well, they teach other kids too, but isn't that where you would want to donate your money, right? Like if going to donate to a non-profit wouldn't i want to donate it to a homeschool supported charity right and so yeah we our kids do a part-time they do a part-time schedule what are the expenses like as compared to private or catholic school it'd be it'd be probably it was certainly cheaper than of these hoity-to grooming catholic school or grooming i mean um private schools yeah it would be on par with what a catholic school tuition would be working yeah are you satisfied so far with the results oh yeah we're thrilled yeah we're thrilled and what we do as because again homeschooling isn't what people think we're still voluntarily tracked by the state. So the state has somebody check in with my wife, they interview the kids, and then my kids will take the standardized tests to make sure that they're on path with the curriculum, which we're fine with.
If school were school, we'd send our kids to public school. If school were, hey, here's your course material, here's what you learn, here's how you take it, we'd still homeschool, honestly, because that's just the way I am.
But we don't have a problem with the testing and everything in studiology. So we're on track.
Our kids take the test that a normal kid would take. And then they talk to a liaison who's in teaching and she's a wonderful person and is very helpful.
And they just check in with the kids, make sure the kids are okay, which I'm fine with that too. Is there any downside to this? I mean, it's all upside.
You know, you never want to say there's no downside because that means you're high on your own supply, right? Right. But they socialize with other kids.
They're with kids of all age groups. That way, remember we would go to school, you're in a class and you're with people only your own age.
And when children talk to people of other ages, they become more advanced with their communication. Yes, that is totally true.
So people often think that my oldest daughter is older than she is. No, no, she just spends a lot of time talking to adults and talking to eighth graders and seventh graders and sixth graders and fifth graders and it's all kid appropriate because the model of the the co-op or the they probably don't even call it a homeschool co-op they call it probably something else there's probably a different terminology but it's waldorf based it's nature based it's based on the wonder and magical childhood you go in it's very much about storytelling and participating with nature.
And that's the one that they go to. I have friends who they set up one and it's more tech-based.
There are a lot of tech guys who want their kids kind of coding, which I don't think a five-year-old needs to learn to code. Plus the coding language, who knows what it'll even be.
Well, with AI, no one needs to learn to code. Anyway, right? But there are people who are trying to find solutions.
But the flip side is a lot of parents do want the daycare aspect. So homeschooling, if you don't like your kids, then homeschooling is a very, it's a huge downside.
It's a huge, right? Yeah. Because if you don't like your kids, you send them to public school.
I mean, that's not. Yeah.
If you don't like your kids, you shawl them off. But if you're.
Yeah, kids just send them to public school i mean that's not yeah if you don't like your kids you shaw them off but if you're yeah or just send them to sidwell in dc or something like that right exactly because you don't like your kids and you're ambitious and i'm a world worldly man i want to be secretary of state like anthony go be trans daddy's got work to do right and or get an overdose or whatever right yeah the whole point um so becoming more spiritually aware, people looking for alternatives to a dying school system, these are huge positive developments, I think, in American society. Can you think of any others since you believe in optimism and despise despair? Oh yeah, I mean, more people train jujitsu, more people are starting their own businesses, more people own guns, more people are awake to to the problems even if the problems are way bigger than they ever could have imagined more people are having open dialogue about real real issues people have left the grid right 10 years ago because you know my experience with ayahuasca goes way way way back in time but if i talked about that till relatively recently they'd 5150 me right? And now people are like, oh, I mean, I don't, he's probably delusional or whatever.
But it's like in the conversation, right, which the Overton window on that has shifted. So there's a lot of good energy being put out too.
There's never been a better time. In my opinion, this is why I don't like the despair for men.
When I was a kid, you couldn't just learn things. You were in a school and then whatever your parents taught you is kind of what you learned.
If you're 17, 18, and you want to learn how to start an internet website, e-commerce business, you might not have anything to sell, but you can do that. You can literally learn anything that you would need to know to survive.

I didn't know anything about money.

I almost went bankrupt at one point because I just didn't understand money.

I didn't understand about credit or paying bills on time or how any of this stuff worked.

I just didn't know.

You didn't have a lot of experience growing up with money.

Right, right.

But you could just learn anything.

So if you're actually a young man in a hurry or a young woman in a hurry,

you can go learn whatever you want.

Thank you. Right.
But you could just learn anything. So if you're actually a young man in a hurry, or a young woman in a hurry, you can go learn whatever you want.
And there's obviously more temptations and other influences, but you can carve out your own path in a way that you couldn't have 40 years ago. 40 years ago, if you were born, you were born in a town that's probably where you're going to end up.
Maybe you're the oddball in that didn't happen we're not getting drafted for the vietnam war right we you know we like to bash the boomers a little bit and i enjoy that too from time to time but they were drafted in a war instead to vietnam i don't know if anybody's ever been caving in vietnam but try to walk through a cave as a six foot tall man and imagine that that's what we did you graduated high school and you were in vietnam bro and then you were bill crystal or somebody or mitt romney then of course you were a fortunate oh did bill crystal not serve in vietnam the last i checked he didn't yeah oh mitt romney yeah last i checked they weren't in vietnam either those guys love wars i would thought they would take that opportunity yeah they they missed their hero's journey right so if you look at if you look at the problems they're real but if you look at the problems in a historical context i would rather live now than the draft era of the vietnam war wouldn't you yeah there were civil rights riots in the 60s detroit is burning right that was happening in the 60s the crime wave in new york in the 70s we've we've always kind of had these problems so it's good to get over our own myopia and say it's just this is a human condition man this is a human struggle we're always going to have it you never win you never lose because even if you think you win you can have it all taken away you know you can drive out i've made it in life you can driveose, lose a leg, lose both legs, die. Your kids could get died in a crash.
It's never over, right? But in our human brains with the ego, we either go to, I'm a winner and I'm in a static place of winning, or I'm a loser. Everything is so bad in society and this is where I am.
So in your own mind, what you want to do is break that narrative arc and realizing you're not a winner, you're not a loser, you're at a given point in time and anything could change for the better or the worse in a moment. So do the best you can right now while you're here and keep pushing forward.
Amen. So the last thing I'm going to ask you about, and I just want to take a really dark turn, if we could, is Epstein.
You've done a lot on this. First, give us the overview.
What was that? What is the truth of his life and death? And when are the rest of us going to get all the details on this? We will never know the truth about what happened with Jeffrey Epstein because it was clearly an intelligence operation. It was clearly a form of blackmail and a form of keeping people confined to the narrative.
So the Epstein documents, the way they came about was a friend of mine who's a lawyer said,'ve never seen anything like this there's this litigation going involving jeffrey epstein and everything is redacted and this is filed in federal court and as you know you don't when was this 2016 ish 2017 ish and he said you won't believe this you can't do that because if you want a confidential dispute resolution you can do mediation arbitration if you're in public courts and litigation your social security number is redacted but why you're suing and what's alleged is not redacted well yeah it's a pub it's a public it's our justice system yeah go do arbitration if you want private right confidential and he goes why don't we just file a motion to unseal and i thought it'd be some like little side project and wouldn't cost that much money being naive because this was so unprecedented that it shouldn't cost a lot of money it ended up costing 250 000 plus with him giving a break on it we thought it'd cost 10 or 20 and the because if you're looking at it through the structure of the way the law is you would say this is it there's such thing as an easy win in law, but to the extent that there's an easy win, this is low-hanging fruit. Let's just go ahead and get these files unredacted.
It won't take that much time or money. Oh, the opposite.
The judge ruled against us after sitting on the case for a long time on privacy grounds. There was no, again, that's not how the law works.
The law isn't that you have the right to privacy and public litigation. You don't, you give up the right to privacy and public litigation.
That shouldn't happen. We think, oh God, this is more, more than we realized.
So then we go, I guess we got got to appeal it so then we file an appeal in the second circuit court of appeals and meanwhile the money is just and i realized again in hindsight i was like wow you were naive you thought there was just going to be some easy win but i didn't really know what i was getting at right it's like pulling a tiger by the tail you're on a little hike and you see something sticking out and you kind of grab it and next thing you know it's a bengal tiger in your face and you think i didn't i didn't know that that's what i was grabbing at and in my own nativity i didn't realize what the whole epstein situation was it was going to be a real he was still alive at this point he was still alive he wasn't been arrested so this is as last night you said i told a lot of stories you didn't believe so this is another impossible no no i just need to believe it you're unbelievable you were telling me about your childhood and i sometimes get self-pity and i'm like oh my life was so hard and i hear about yours are you serious did that really happen right right so this is another unbelievable story uh it's like a forrest gump thing how do i get get involved with Jeffrey Epstein? Just some random guy on the internet and Twitter. How bizarre.
So me and Mark Randazza was the lawyer. So Randazza and Mark Randazza said, hey, why don't we just get these unsealed? You're always talking about pedophile stuff.
This is such an easy win for you. And he goes, and the case is interesting to me.
So I'll cut you a break on fees. We both thought going in that it was going to be something that you could get done for a reasonable amount of money and a reasonable amount of time, and it took years.
We filed a suit and the motion to unseal, and then the judge rules against us. We appealed to the Second Circuit Court appeals in New York, and then this is during the Trump administration.
Epstein is still free, hasn't been arrested. A friend of mine, one of the good guys in the intelligence community said, hey, just so you know, you shouldn't mention Epstein anymore.
You're in a real problem. And they go, you got into something really that you didn't know what you were getting into.
And I go, okay, what do you want to do? They go, just stand by. You're in court.
That'll work its way through, but you need to not draw attention to this issue or yourself. And I said, okay, what do you want to do? They go, just stand by.
You're in court. That'll work its way through,

but you need to not draw attention to this issue or yourself.

And I said, okay, that's message received.

And this is someone in the-

Well, this is credible.

Yeah, this is a real-

In the intel world.

Yeah, this isn't some guy who reads me on Twitter

worried about me after a divine vision.

Yeah, this is a real thing.

And so I didn't talk about it for about a year. And then what happened is the Miami Herald, Julie Brown, filed the same motion to unseal kind of that I had filed and piggybacked on me.
And then that's what started to break open the Epstein thing. So then my guy in the intelligence world said, okay, you're green light now.
They're not going to kill Julie Brown and the Miami Herald. Everybody's going going to talk about it so let the chips fall where they may so then i re-entered the discourse on it because there you can't kill everybody kind of how they say right yeah you can kill one guy you can have one guy get in a car crash but you're not going to go after the miami herald or other people now what is very sad to me about the epstein story is if you look at the timeline and you look at the why epstein became relevant again and this isn't julie brown julie brown to her credit had the right motives but jake tapper and others didn't a man by the name of alexander acosta was the secretary of labor of donald trump so you now have a orange man bad angle because alexander acosta was the prosecuting attorney who oversaw the original plea agreement with Jeffrey Epstein, which could only be defined as a sweetheart plea deal defying any kind of logic.
And the media now had Trump bad because Acosta's Trump, Epstein Trump, the Trump Epstein angle. right now the media suddenly cared or pretended to care about the issue because they could use the epstein issue to get after trump so then every media outlet wanted access to the epstein files because they were hoping there was a trump angle too so then suddenly it became a big deal so we go up before the second circuit court of appeals mark randos and jay woolman argue the case and by now the meter's like turning man i'm like stressing dude and you're and you're paying for this they gave me a break on fees what they would normally charge anybody else that would have been a million dollar legal fee plus the um but we had some of us pro bono but i was still paying oh yeah i still sending big checks.
Just because you thought it was interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and I didn't know it was, if I didn't know how big it was going to be, I might have had second thoughts.

But the, because they did me good on it.

I don't want to make it seem like a complaining.

This is the nature of the American legal system.

Because that's why people go, oh, why don't you see that person?

They said something about you.

It's like, I don't know.

Why don't I write a check for $3.5 million to litigate a defamation case against somebody because they called me something on the internet? People don't understand that until they're in that world and they realize how much all this stuff costs. And Miami Herald probably spent $2 million on fees.
And so they argued the case. The Second Circuit made it abundantly clear that they were going to unseal the files because there was no way in the world under established law that the file should have been sealed in the first place.

And oral argument happens.

It's so clear that they're going to unseal it.

I think oral argument happens on Friday and I'm like, all right, this is good.

Two days later, Epstein gets arrested, flying back from France.

The only reason he was arrested was because the files are going to be unsealed. Because he was told he was not going to be arrested.
Right. The mop-up operation had worked, but for me, and more importantly, but for Julie Brown.
Because I think if it had just been me, they could have just buried the case long enough. They could have issued an unpublished opinion that wouldn't have precedent of value.
it the way the way it works is a trial court judge is more likely to make up the law against you than an appellate court because an appellate court will have precedential value and apply in other cases so the trial court could have just they gave me a fake ruling because who cares it's mike cernovich and then the second circuit could have moved it to a shadow docket and ruled against me but once julie brown entered the case you can't ignore the miami herald right i think i'm a big deal but compared to miami herald i don't have any legitimacy at all right and then every other outlet got involved too so then the regime realized well the epstein stuff is coming out we better look like we're doing something and then so jeffrey epstein was at least a couple or was arrested a couple days after all argument because they realized we have a mess now what do we do so then epstein gets arrested and then do you want me to keep going i'm actually i'm actually spellbound. So to channel Dr.
Gene Scott, get on the telephones, get on the phones. So then they charged Epstein, but a little bit of like legal trivia.
I went there for the press conference. I read the indictment and the indictment was what you would charge someone if you wanted to create a media narrative that you were prosecuting them but that under the law would be chicken shit stuff the lowest thing that you could possibly charge him for but you could say we're going after him there's a reason they did it this way they charged him for paying for massages in his new york apartment through I think, the period of 2014 to 2016, somewhere in the timeline.
Massages in his apartment. That's all they charged him for, the four corners of the indictment.
So why did they only charge him for that? There's a reason. He had a place in New Mexico.
He had his island. He had his place in Paris.
He had another place, I think, in West Palm Beach. And if they had charged him for trafficking, the FBI would have had to simultaneously raid every property under a man act.
The man act makes it a crime to transport a woman. State lines.
Yep. And international too.
So he was flying back from Paris and he was flying women models all over the world. Models, you know, not to diminish what he's doing doing but that's what's his story he was flying underage girls and some of age all around the world well what you would do with the sdny which as we know the sdny they go after you got problems because they charge the most aggressive they're too aggressive in fact in how they charge cases what you would have charged it if you were concerned with being a prosecutor, you would have charged him under the Mann Act.
And under the international version of the Mann Act, you would have simultaneously searched and seized every property, taken all the evidence. Instead, they arrested him, had a little press conference.
It was over massages in New York property. They searched the New York property.
What was happening in the island? We don't know. What happened to the island? We don't know.
Because the FBI said, we can't search it because nothing that he was charged with concerned. Because, of course, the FBI is very concerned now with due process.
Yeah. You know, yeah, they're really, you know, we don't want to go overstep our lawful authorities.
So we can't go raid that island. So they left all these properties unattended.
And then that's when the mop-up operation commenced. And they got whatever compromising CEDs and DVRs and other information.
They got that from the intelligence community, got that from all the properties. May I ask you to pause for one second? So this is happening in 2017? No, by the time it came to fruition.
Yeah, now we're in 1819. Okay, right.
So it would have been Bill Barr, the Republican attorney general, his second time as attorney general. He would have been aware of all this, correct? Oh, yeah.
I'm not sure if Barr was in it. At the time, we'd have to double check it.
But whoever was AG would absolutely have been aware of it. And I think it was Bill Barr because Bill Barr is the one who said that he watched footage of Epstein committing suicide.
he knows but we can't watch the footage of epstein committing suicide bill bar can but we can't that's a little sus right yeah right bill bar covered up the murder of epstein well clearly right but i'm just saying like what i like to do which i found helps me be more persuasive is i will meet you with what you claim even when i know it's a lie so i know that bill bar is lying but i would just for the sake of argument accept it is true that bill bar saw the video of epstein killing himself well therefore you would have to explain why you can't release that video or show it to other people because if the video exists the public would clearly have a right to see it that's right or or designated trusted intermediaries would so rather than say well bill bar is lying i like to just say okay buddy and by the way that's

a trait of lawyering a lot of police detectives use that too is i'll i'll follow along with your

bullshit and then i'll just start pulling pulling the threads a little bit so yeah it would have

been bill bar and so epson gets charged with the lowest possible conic that he ever could have been

charged with and all their properties were left unattended so mop-up teams went in there took

Thank you. gets charged with the lowest possible conic that he ever could have been charged with and all their properties were left unattended so mop up teams went in there took whatever they needed to take out there and then Epstein commits suicide it's the end of the story what's to talk about all gone now all in a nice it's like the ending of the usual suspects it's like he never existed what happened to all the evidence the i've been telling his apparatuses have it so but we read that the other hundreds of thousands of hours of videotape from his various properties yeah that's a fact that's not a yeah that's not something that was in so where is all that taped you know vaults vaults in washington dc or fort knox wherever bill bar had it sent.
Yeah. Whatever physical location Bill Barr and whatever Five Eyes agencies he was working with stored it.
They have all that black military on people to this day. And they'll release it if they need to, but everybody's kind of playing ball.
You find out that Bill Gates was there often. Where are the videos? Where's the proof? You'll never see that.
But Bill Gates will go along with the agenda. Bill Clinton, he'll go along with the agenda.
Reid Hoffman, he's a very vicious person going after people. And the media gives him a pass, even though he was with Epstein.
Here's what I love about cancel culture, why you know it's not sincere. I would support the universal enforcement of cancel culture rules.
so if the rule was you did a bad thing in your life and you're kind of beyond the norm, beyond the pale, and you're not allowed acceptable society, if that were universally applied, that would mean Bill Gates is not anywhere, right? Bill Clinton would be canceled. Bill Clinton, there's all this witness testimony about Bill Clinton.

Reid Hoffman would be canceled. Bill Clinton, there's all this witness testimony about Bill Clinton.
Reid Hoffman would be canceled. But it's interesting that if you post a bad tweet or a bad video clip out of context or chopped up or even a deep fake or even somebody makes it up, now you're toxic, you're toxic waste.
But everybody gets to hang around Epstein and they can still speak at the dnc and they're they're held up as the media and propped up so clearly the media was in on the epstein stuff because otherwise you would hound bill gates to his dying days bill gates would never get on stage without you asking about jeffrey epstein and we know for a fact that reed hoffman who is a totally poisonous person, he was a close associate of Epstein's. The Wall Street Journal reported on emails where Reid Hoffman was trying to introduce people into Epstein's world.
And Reid Hoffman's story is, of course, well, I was trying to raise money for MIT. He's got his own narrative.
But yeah, this has all been reported and authenticated by the Wall Street Journal. Because I would never anything untrue about reed hoffman that's for sure because they make up stuff to sue people over anyway yeah so you would definitely i think he funded the suit against trump yeah he's yeah he's funding all the lawfare against people and trying to take people kind of out one by one and if we had a legitimate media you would hound him every time i mean how many times do people when when you were on fox your staffers would get hounded for a random post they would make on twitter oh yeah right well they tried to destroy their lives yeah you're trying to go after some staffer over a post that was maybe poorly worded or didn't have sufficient nuance in a on a platform that doesn't allow for it didn't allow for at the time sufficient nuance but you're like oh yeah we're cool with all these other people though they're they're they're the good guys and that shows you that we don't have a media we have propaganda outlets for the intelligence community and they've been kind of given their marching orders on who's allowed in the discourse and who's allowed to be propped up and who's allowed to get away with things that they got away with and then all of epstein's associates they're fine nobody got damaged how many people's lot reputations were sullied i would give an example of compare what's been done to somebody like Peter Brimelow or Jared Taylor,

who I obviously don't agree with a lot of their stuff but you have to add those qualifiers unfortunately but compare them to people who paled around with epstein or the sackler family and how they're still billionaire yeah the sack killed all those people yeah and they escaped criminal charges or Boeing, which just did a civil fine for all the people they killed because of their cover-ups and their crimes.

What they get away with.

So if you're in a world where you say something offensive, maybe unintentionally, you're done, at least in terms of how they can't define the discourse in the way they once did.

But you're sullied forever.

You have a scarlet letter on you forever and you have to learn to accept

that and overcome it.

But you're,

you're,

there's a ceiling on you for sure.

And,

but you can be a friend with Epstein because the media and the intelligence

communities are all working together.

So they'll make sure that your life isn't made too difficult for what you

did.

Are we ever going to know more? you think about epstein no by 20 years i mean there's that book chaos which was about mk ultra on the charles manson so in 50 years when nobody can be damaged and nothing can really be done we'll learn about the we'll learn about the truth of it maybe but there's a great conspiracy theory which is the government or rather there's a meme about conspiracy theories which they dismiss it as a conspiracy conspiracy theory 20 years ago then they admit it but now they tell you whatever you're accusing them of today is a conspiracy theory and it keeps getting pushed forward last question do you know the effect all of this, the evaporation of like recognizable reality has made everyone super paranoid. And I have noticed probably too paranoid because it's not helpful to be that paranoid.
But do you think that the U.S. government is working aggressively to spread disinformation within opposition media? Do you think there are like lots of feds running around, actually? Oh, I think there are all kinds of feds embedded within the right-wing movement and the conservative movement.
You think that's real? Oh, yeah. To discredit people.
That was the CIA. There was a book called Intelintel pro you can read the cia manual on how you disrupt movements which i read and what they would do the cia would do at the time they're doing it to the black panthers but now they're doing it to anybody who's deemed christian or goes to a catholic church is they have various tactics and one tactic they do is they call it stone um what do you call it when you keep talking? Filibustering.
So you have a group and you'll have two different agents put in. One is going to try to fed trap you like they did in Michigan.
Oh, we need to do more than just talk. We've talked for too long.
It's time to take action. And then that only works on the really desperate people who don't have anything going on, which happened post 9-11 to Muslim kids, if we're being fully honest here.
This isn't a new thing happening to us, and woe is us. It was happening to Muslims, and a lot of conservatives didn't really care.
Oh, that's true. The FBI stopped another terrorist attack.
No, they didn't. They found some poor Muslim kid who was lonely, maybe mildly autistic, and they planned a whole thing for him.
Or he had non-mainstream opinions, but wasn't hurting. By the way, you're allowed to have non-mainstream opinions.
In fact, that's the whole point of this country, is allowing you to have non-mainstream opinions. Right.
So now it's our turn in the barrel. So on the one hand, they'll try to do that with low-hanging fruit.
On the other hand, they'll have people who filibuster and make it so that nothing can really get done, right? So the more elegant way to disrupt a political movement isn't to Fed trap people, it's to run off the clock. So I think, for example, Q, the cube thing, trust the plan, I believe that was intelligence operation done.
The reason I think that is because if you go back to 2018, the entire narrative being spread to MAGA world was there's going to be a massive red wave in 2018. We are going to overtake Congress and Trump is going to accomplish all of these things.
And millions of people, maybe tens of millions of people believed it. Well, what happened? What happens when you believe that everything is going to be okay and it's being worked on? Well, you don't push.
You don't pressure guys. You don't register voters.
You don't turn out to vote. You don't do all that boring grinding because in your mind, trust the plan.
It's all being taken care of. It might look like President Trump is getting rolled by the deep state, but he's but he's really not this is a faint and what really is going to happen is all these mass arrests are going to happen so i believe i have no direct evidence of this but my personal belief and i think it's a rational one based on the very manuals that the fbi and cia wrote was i believe the entire QAnon movement was made by the intelligence community.
Do you think that what happened two weeks ago at the debate, like what was, I mean, there's so many levels. I'm trying to figure out what that was.
Everyone who's paying attention knew that Biden had some sort of neurological disorder, but the media never admitted it until like four minutes into the debate,

all of a sudden the story became,

this guy's retarded.

We've got to do something.

What was that?

I have friends who think that,

I have friends who believe

that the debate was orchestrated

by the deep state or Biden's handlers.

And that's why it ended up the way it did. I don't believe that.
And here's why. My belief is that CNN wanted to create a narrative where Trump dodged the debate with Biden.
So they kept imposing more and more onerous terms on Trump. So me, and this is why Trump, I have a lot to say about Trump and the way he handled things.
And I have lot of problems with trump and but i will say that only trump is trump so nobody but trump would have taken that cnn interview because trump's magic power but also his greek fatal flaw right the greeks would always say your greatest is he's so obsessed with mainstream media that he'll interview these people and talk to them all day even though they they hate him and he gives them ratings. Meanwhile, when he was president,

I said, why don't you just talk to the Daily Caller every day?

Give them everything.

And then everybody has to watch the Daily Caller.

Give it to Breitbart.

Why don't you build the conservative media ecosystem?

No, because he's a boomer and he's obsessed with prestige media

or what I would call regime media, regime propaganda.

So anybody else goes, I'm not walking into a CNN ambush.

The terms of this are stupid.

Then the narrative will be Trump won't debate Biden.

And that's a good narrative they run with.

But instead, Trump said, oh, you're going to turn off my microphone?

Sure.

Oh, you're going to make me do this?

Okay, sure.

Oh, you're going to do this?

Sure, sure.

So all of the terms led to the debate having to happen,

even though it was a setup. And then Biden shows up.
We've known for a while he's been sundowning. And they had it at night.
They should have had it during the day. That was their fault.
There was really nothing they could do. They gave him seven days of rest.
They gave him a drug cocktail. But they had to show up.
They couldn't have him not show up. And they were hoping maybe he'd have a good night.
Because as you know, people with dementia have a good night that's right sometimes they have a medium night biden had a terrible night but that's the gamble you gotta run so one reason you never despair is the enemy gets a vote and in this case trump was the enemy to the regime trump said okay sure i'll show up to your rig thing because I love the media anyway. And Trump already preceded a narrative in MAGA World to explain any failures.
The whole thing was rigged anyway. So the narrative was already set that if Trump had a bad night, it was because the debate terms were so unconscionable that he never should have did it, but he did it anyway.
So he goes in there, presses the advantage. Biden had a bad night, an unusually

bad night probably. And I don't think we need to, because I don't view the deep state of regime as

omniscient. I view them as evil bad faith actors, but that are actually less smart than we are.

And they're less robust because for people like us, we've been through the crucible so many times and we know we're going to be in the crucible again. We conduct ourselves a little bit differently than they do.
It's like you have to remember your speeches from in high school, Julius Caesar. And one of the speeches I had to memorize in high school was, let me have men about me that are fat, sleek headed men's and one that sleeps at night.
Jan Cassius has a lean and hungry look. You don't want the lean and hungry look people around you, right? We're the lean and hungry people.
We're the people that we know that one misstep, we're in court, dude. We know that the regime will frame us for crimes.
So not only are we not doing ethically questionable behavior, because boy, then we'd really be giving them our neck. neck that's for sure we know these motherfuckers are going to frame us anyway so we're already like oh my god i wonder what like whether where they're going to like make up about me shit whereas all the fat people the spiritually fat people are so weak and debased because they're the ones cooking everything up that they don't know where their weak sides are right right? So in their fat world, they're thinking, we'll just put Biden up there.
Maybe he has a good night and we luck out. If it's a bad night, we'll be okay.
But they didn't realize how bad it could be. Whereas if someone like you worked for, because that's also the danger of these people.
They don't have any counter counter narrative so if they had somebody like you

there me there we'd have been saying and maybe this isn't a good idea because the right the problem of the right is we too we self-police too much we should self-police maybe a little bit less the problem of the left is they police away any kind of opposition view and they allow every crazy in the tent. So us we know who the crazies are and we know who the feds are and we know to think in those terms whereas if you're on the left nobody's crazy oh ilhan omar she's great oh what was she doing about october 7th what she's saying wait rashida talab no no no no no guys, no, no, no, no, pretend, at least pretend for one day to care.
Oh my, oh, now we have a real problem. Whereas with, with us, we're used to having to police ourselves and the people around us.
So we maybe don't walk into the traps or unforced errors that that Biden debate was. So that's a very long way of saying I don't think the regime's omniscient.
I don't think that that was a move to take him out. I think that that was pure human groupthink in action.
And they thought that they could get Trump to not take the debate because the terms were so rigged. Very smart analysis, as has everything you've said for the past couple hours been.
So thank you. It's my pleasure.
Mike Sarnich. Thanks for listening to the Tucker Carlson show.

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