Aaron Lewis on Being Blacklisted from Radio & Why Record Labels Intentionally Promote Terrible Music

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How'd you wind up singing country music?

Well,

my childhood,

the soundtrack to my childhood is all country music.

That's all I heard from the time I woke up in the morning until the time the lights went out.

It's funny, you're from northern New England, which I think people don't associate with country music, but it's oh, yeah, for sure.

Country, like out in the woods, everybody's listening to country music for sure.

But yeah, I, I would,

I spent a lot of time at my grandparents' house.

Where?

In

Wallingford, Vermont.

Spent a lot of time there.

It was a safe place for me.

And my grandmother would wake up in the morning, and the very first thing that happened before an egg hit the frying pan or anything was the country radio got turned on.

Wow.

And it was on all day long.

And the very last thing that got shut off before the light got shut off was the radio.

So,

I mean, it didn't matter if I was going fishing with my grandfather or whether I was at the house.

If we were going fishing, I can still visualize the pile of eight tracks on the floor of his Gran Torino with

the boat tied to the top of the car.

And

it was just it was permanent there was always country music always

and if we were in the boat he was singing it so

my whole childhood is just steeped in country music so when i decided

excuse me when i decided to do something different

because i had gotten to the end of my contract with Stained

and I was now free to do whatever I wanted to do

i had always thought about putting out a solo record if you will a lot of lead singers do that um

i didn't want it to be stained light

i wanted i wanted to do something different and reinvent what i was doing without reinventing myself yes

And the only direction to go was country music because it was such a part of my being, part of my

whole childhood memories and the landscape of it.

So

when I decided that I was actually going to do something by myself, that was the direction that I went.

It's funny.

I think people think of country music as a regional music.

Southern, Appalachian,

you know, Tennessee, Southwest Virginia, kind of the birthplace.

They don't think of it as the music of the country.

So it's like Central California, Bakersfield, of course.

Oh, yeah.

Vermont.

Bakersfield is a piece of Texas.

Of exactly.

In the middle of California.

And you grew up in northern New England, which is, you know, very rural, one of the most rural places in the world.

And you get out of the cities in New England, and it's as country as country gets, and it's as red as red gets.

Even the state of Massachusetts.

Oh, I know.

If you look at the state of Massachusetts broken down county by county, the whole state's red except for Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.

Yeah.

If you get outside those three big cities and in the state of Massachusetts, which is one of the worst, it is California, too.

You get outside those big cities, it's all red.

Yeah, not a lot of Kamala voters up near Mount Shasta.

No,

no, no, not at all.

It's just music is such a window into attitudes and culture.

And it's just, it's funny that country music is basically popular everywhere outside the cities.

100%.

Interesting.

So how, was it weird for you to go from one genre to a completely different one?

Weird?

I don't know if it was, I don't know if it was weird.

It was

foolish by everybody else's accounts because I had already built something substantial in the rock industry.

Yeah.

And I kind of walked away from that and went to a completely different genre that

there might be some overlap of stained fans that also liked country music.

But I was certainly in that moment shooting myself in the foot and having to basically start over because

my value in the industry was

towards the rock industry and

nobody knew who I was in the country industry unless they would listen to rock music too.

So it kind of

in perfect

me form,

I took the hard road and decided I was going to change genres along with putting something out by myself, which would have been hard enough as it is.

How has country music changed itself as a genre?

I don't really recognize country music anymore.

Really?

Well, what's playing on the radio?

Like, how do you draw a line from what's on the radio now and called country music to what was on the radio when we were kids called country music?

Like,

there's no line to be drawn.

I listen to Bluegrass Junction, so this is all

outside my world.

But

tell me how it's changed.

It's been infiltrated by California, just like everything else.

Ooh, really?

When

within my career, about halfway through it,

everything changed in the industry and a lot of consolidation happened.

A lot of people lost their jobs at whatever record label they were at, or they were in the top 40 side of things, and everything got condensed and they lost their, well,

they all either went to Nashville or they went to country radio.

And I truly believe that that has something to do with why country has become so popified,

where

it's like the land of the misfit toys, where it's not really country.

It's not really pop.

It kind of rides right down the middle of it and becomes its own thing.

And they should call it its own thing.

Like it should have its own genre and classification.

And instead, they call it country.

And I don't know how you can put George Jones and Merle Haggard in the same sentence as

Morgan Wallen or

the Rascal Flats.

I mean, how do you even

how does that correlate?

How does that fall into the same category because it it doesn't in any way to me

which is better

country yeah

we have pop music i think pop music with a country twang is a little weird why'd they do did that happen organically or do you think it was on purpose it's the it's the control mechanism it's the people in in power calling the shots and and being the taste makers if you will and and

choosing for us what we want to hear and then stuffing it down our throat until we accept it.

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There's something a little radical, well, maybe more than a little radical, about traditional, you know, Johnny Cash doing...

you know, a live show from the Folson Yard.

You know, it's like, it's pretty,

it's pretty untamed in a lot of ways i mean there's like a true outlaw not a fake outlaw element but like a real outlaw element i think that country music is is americana like

it's the

it's through the genre that we as as the country of america are certainly responsible for it came from here it yeah it didn't come from somewhere else where

where rock had a lot of English influence, all those English bands from back in the 60s and stuff.

But

country music is

country music still isn't worldwide.

It's big in Germany.

It might have, it's got a listening audience in England and in Germany, but it doesn't expand much further than that.

Like, country music is an American genre.

And it's become less American and more international, more, more like Barcelona.

It's just everyone's city.

Right.

Like, it's like

it's like the land of the misfit toys.

That's the best way to describe it, where it doesn't fit in pop, doesn't fit in country, just kind of

but you can push it in either direction and it would and it works, but

it has no

it doesn't have its own soul, if you will.

It's It's definitely not pure to the genre.

Do you think

that there's still a demand for it?

I mean, could...

Country music?

Yeah, real country music.

Could Merle Haggard make a living today?

I don't know.

I mean, I would certainly hope so.

But if you listen to the landscape that's on country radio right now, I don't see where he would fit in at all.

Hmm.

I don't see where I fit in at all.

Are you on the radio?

No.

Really?

No, they won't play me.

They don't like

my thoughts on things.

Really?

How important is it?

Well, it's obviously you.

How many shows you do last year?

Oh,

probably 175, 180 shows last year.

Yeah, so obviously.

Pretty much all of them sold out.

You're doing fine.

I'm doing just fine.

It's nice to not have to

bow down to the powers that be.

It's nice to not have to

undermine my value in a market because

the radio station

wants to get as much out of my show as they can.

So they sell my ticket for a low-do $10

ticket.

And they've just devalued my value in that market by selling such a cheap ticket when I can sell hard tickets.

I don't need to

sell myself short

by

doing favors

for

a radio station.

Is that how it works?

Oh,

first you sell your soul to the record label, and then you sell everything else you've got to the machine, which is the radio that drives music.

Really?

Is it satellite or terrestrial radio?

All of it.

All of it.

Satellite just took over.

Yeah, but it's the same idea.

Same concept.

So how does it, if you don't mind revealing the sleazy underbelly of the business that you don't participate in, apparently, how does that work?

We are the indentured servant.

I mean, I think that indentured servitude laws are literally still on the books in California so that they can get away

with what they do with us.

The performer, the artist you're talking about.

Yeah, everything,

every

penny that we ever get paid from a record label is all a loan.

It's all a loan.

To give you

just a conceptual breakdown, this is all just kind of a

take a dollar.

Yeah.

So

25 cents of that dollar, let's just say it's probably more,

goes to the record label just because, because they invested.

The rest of it,

business management takes their percentage, lawyer takes their percentage, management takes their percentage, business manager takes their percentage,

then

the government takes their percentage,

and then the overhead,

and then what's left,

let's call it 10 cents at the end of the day, that

goes back to the record label to pay back the loan

that they gave you of the money that they gave you up front.

Actually,

any money that I've actually made

from the record label,

I've

made them

80 times as much.

Like

that's it of a dollar, let's just say there's 12 cents left.

The 12 cents actually goes to pay back the record label for the money that they gave you.

It's insane.

How does that still exist?

Because of the laws on the books.

It's like, it's insane.

Are the record label people adding a lot to the process?

Are they creative geniuses?

No.

I just love how all the people who are getting rich from

creativity can't do it.

Are the least creative people?

Yeah.

They're the ones that can't create, but they are making the most money off of the creatives.

We're here because

who wouldn't want a record label?

Who wouldn't want to live this dream?

Who wouldn't want to make music if they're a musician?

Who wouldn't want to make music as their livelihood?

So we're in

a very fucked up situation where

there's a thousand people behind me that would kill me to have my freaking job.

Yes, exactly.

So

I got no leverage.

Television is the same.

I got no leverage with the with the industry

because I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a

I'm easily chewed up and spit out because there's a thousand people behind me waiting to get chewed up and spit out.

How long did you participate in that system

uh it was 2012 or 13

that last stained record that we put out was

was the the last record where i really

had to

do the dance and and play the game with radio and

and

not ruffle any feathers and not offend anybody and

play the game.

And then once that contract was done,

I tried to play the game with country music.

And then I released a song called That Ain't Country that was basically talking about the whole industry that has created this amalgamation of music that doesn't really fit in a genre.

And that was the end of it.

I put out a song

trying to get country radio to play it about them, and they didn't like that very much.

Okay, so you attacked the distributors and then were surprised when they didn't distribute it?

Yeah, super smart.

Yeah, super smart.

But I admire your purity.

Exactly, but principled.

That's that's hilarious.

So that didn't, that didn't work.

So what is it?

Well, did it work?

Well, I don't know.

It basically

didn't work to my advantage to be getting played on the radio,

but it certainly freed me

from

being a servant to radio.

Yes.

So

it's a.

It is so freeing

to not be under that thumb.

Yes.

I can write songs that are over three and a half minutes long.

I can

put lyrics and songs that

I want to put there.

You know, I'm just, I, I'm no longer

held

to the industry standard because I'm not necessarily trying to participate in the industry game.

I go out there.

I play successful shows.

I have a fan base that seeks out my music and doesn't just listen to what the radio stuffs down their throat.

And I'm very, very blessed and very, very lucky that I don't have to participate in the game anymore.

How has Spotify changed it?

I'm a

Spotify billionaire.

I've had over a billion spins on Spotify.

If I only had a penny for every spin on Spotify, that would be fantastic.

A dollar,

a quarter, a penny from every spin with over a billion spins

on Spotify.

All I have is a plaque.

Oh, you never got paid?

It's so

by the time Spotify plays it, there's so many people in the middle.

I don't even think a penny comes my way, to be honest with you.

For a billion spins, you made no money?

I don't think so.

That's not how Spotify works.

Well, how does it work?

I'm not sure.

I just know that it cuts a lot of people in on my financial stream.

That's all I know.

A lot of people who are not you.

Right.

That once again aren't the creatives, and they're the ones making all the money.

So you think somebody.

They were creative in how they came up with something to get into somebody else's money stream.

What's called creative accounting, which is a form of creativity, long unrecognized in the West.

I would call it being a leech, but.

Yeah, I would, I would say the same.

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Your talk.

That's amazing to me.

It's

a billion plays more than, and you don't get paid.

I don't, I mean, I might have.

It certainly wasn't enough for me to

notice, whoa, where the hell did all this money come from in my bank account?

Oh, I got spun over a billion times on Spotify.

That's why.

I mean,

do I know for sure that no money came in?

No, but if you don't remember, then obviously.

It's minuscule compared to speaking.

It's minuscule, comparatively speaking.

Well, that is so interesting.

Have there been...

That's basically the whole thing.

The amount of money that we generate as the artist,

what we get back for that is minuscule, comparatively speaking, to what everybody else with their hands in the cookie jar makes.

So whenever I hear people talk about the...

I'm not complaining.

Well, you should go.

Well,

I'm very blessed and I'm very lucky and I'm and and you know, obviously God has a plan for me because this, the way that all of this has just happened and I am just a passenger and

I'm not driving this ship.

Yes.

But

and I'm very lucky and very blessed, but I can still recognize the faults to the system

and not necessarily be complaining about how amazing of a ride I've had doing this.

It's just, it's interesting.

I mean, but I should just say Spotify has been such a huge blessing for us on this podcast.

I mean, it's just crazy.

It's an amazing new way for people to consume.

Yeah.

And it's run by a guy I know

who owns it and I think is a good guy and committed to speech.

And so I'm very pro-Spotify, but I just didn't understand

that the creators on the music side were cut out of the benefits.

Again, not cut out.

No, but I mean, a billion.

I mean, I should have seen a pretty significant deposit into my account for that many spins.

But what's interesting is they probably paid somebody, but not you.

So you hear the.

Probably.

I'm sure my record label got paid.

Well, you see the accounting of the U.S.

economy.

Like, what's our GDP?

You know, how much money is the United States economy generating?

And like a lot.

So the question is not, you know, is the engine functioning?

The question is, where's the money going?

And my complaint about the U.S.

is not capitalism, which clearly works.

It's about who benefits from it.

And it does seem like the least

useful, least creative, least, certainly least patriotic, but least decent people make all of them big money.

And I think that's, this is another example of it.

Like, how did Larry Fink get so rich?

Like, what did Larry Fink do for america etc etc figured out a way

to

completely leech off of everything that's already there well it that's that's certainly the way it seems to me certainly does right

so how do you make money by getting on the road that is how and that's why i work as hard as i do because that is where i make my money I don't make money on record sales.

I don't make money off of spins.

i make money off of merch

and actually playing shows wow um but that's a much it feels like that's a much more direct transaction like you're running the venue you're performing for two and a half hours or whatever you're getting a cut of gate like there are fewer middlemen in that right

there seems to be less of a less of a machine that

it puts itself in between Yeah.

But

there is this thing that has taken place since I got my record deal 28

years ago, 27 years ago.

It's called a 360 deal,

where now

the younger artists, they're sharing the profits for everything.

The record label gets a cut of their merch.

The record label gets a cut of their live performance pay.

The record label gets a cut of 360.

Everything.

Why?

No matter what you generate.

Because they can.

Because there's a thousand people behind every single person with a record label, with a record deal that wants it as badly as you did before you got it.

And they can give you the shittiest deal on the planet because if you don't take it, the guy behind you will.

Wow.

And they're not only greedy and dishonest, ruthless, they're also very political, right?

The record labels.

And usually in the wrong direction.

And I don't understand how a record label that,

I mean, it certainly isn't capitalism with a conscience, but it is,

it's certainly capitalism where

the record label is in it to make money.

And it's not necessarily about what's the art

that is being created by the creative.

It's about the money that that creative artist is going to generate for the record label to cover the 15 failures that they brought to the table

and dumped all this money into.

I get it.

Publishing's the same way.

Yeah.

So, So,

you know, you've been in it your whole life.

You've toured with everybody.

Pretty much everybody.

Everybody.

You were telling me last night about smoking weed with Willie Nelson on his bus many years ago.

So you've toured with everybody.

How many

creators, artists, performers in your business in private hate and resent the record companies?

Most.

Most.

Most, if not all.

I don't know that in a private setting, in a private conversation where things aren't going any further, I don't know of

anybody that I know in the business that would

have good things to say about it.

Would it be possible for a decent person to start a record company and record label?

I would think so.

I would think so.

But the problem is, is that the

operating

system,

it's just,

it's not decent.

So a decent person could start a record label, but unless they change the entire formula and in the entire way that the whole business is ran,

the business itself is lecherous.

So a good person could start it,

but unless they change the whole thing, it's going to be the same.

Right.

It's like getting elected to Congress.

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So,

when did you start having conflict with your corporate masters over politics?

Hmm.

Obama getting elected.

That was a moment, wasn't it?

And you weren't fully on board.

Hell no.

You didn't worship black Jesus?

I immediately recognized it as

a horrible blow to our country.

Immediately.

Not even knowing why yet.

Like, I just knew.

Instinct tells me instinctively in my gut, I knew that we had made a massive, massive mistake as a country.

Yeah, that's for sure.

And so many balls got rolling during that time frame that

we're still trying to slow down.

No, I know.

But yeah,

when

TMZ would get me when I landed in Los Angeles and I was walking through the airport and

they'd get me and ask me questions and

that was when I started

expressing my feelings and my opinions on you know how they get you?

Do you know the answer to this question?

I found out.

I've been gotten a few times at LAX by TMZ and other airports.

And I once asked, like, how did you know I was on that plane?

Like, you know, because they know because they bribed the airline.

The guy told me this.

They bribed the airline to give them the manifest.

Makes sense.

Now that makes sense.

So crazy.

Out of nowhere, they're like, hey.

Yeah.

Like, what?

Where?

What?

How did you even know I was here?

Thanks, United.

Bless you, American.

You know, it's pretty.

Anyway, so they would, you'd roll off the flight at LAX.

Someone come up to you and ask you a question.

What did you say?

Oh, I was, I have, I have, I had no issues then, nor do I have any issue now telling anybody exactly how I feel.

And,

you know, I, I was already talking about the unconstitutionalness of

Obama's actions and what he was doing.

And

I mean, mentioning that what he was doing was borderline treasonous.

And

that was how I started the ball rolling.

And what kind of responses you get?

Because you weren't allowed to criticize Obama there for a while, or else you were, I can't remember the word, racist.

Yeah, I know.

I've been, I've been labeled that.

Racist!

And then there was one time I was playing a show by the, down by the border.

And

I mean, I've played a lot of shows and I've played a lot of shows back before I had a record deal.

And this was the rudest crowd I had played to in, I don't know, 15 years.

I'm playing completely acoustic all by myself.

Not even any extra musicians on stage or anything, just me and my guitar.

I could not get them to shut up all night, just talking over me like I was the jukebox.

And I made the mistake

of

back then at the end of the show,

I would do a song completely unplugged where I would pull a cord out of my guitar and I'd walk away from the microphone and I'd go stand right on the edge of the stage.

And I would acoustically play the last song

with no microphone, with no nothing, just belting to the crowd.

And for some strange reason, after such a rude evening, I decided I was going to do that and try to prove everybody wrong.

They're going to listen to me whether they want to or not.

So I attempt to try to start the song.

I explained to them what I was going to do through the microphone before I stepped away from the microphone.

And

I attempted to start the song.

As I got to where I started to sing, the volume had gone up and not down.

Now, mind you, there's no sound system anymore, it's just me singing to the room.

So I stop.

I walk back around.

I go to the microphone.

I explain to everybody what I'm going to do again.

I start again.

The volume goes up.

So

I go back to the microphone and I was, and I'm going to, I was like, you know, listen, I don't have to do this.

I was trying to do something.

And a lady that was standing right there in the front row, like four people from the center, she's like, tell them to shut the fuck up in Spanish.

And I said, close to the microphone.

I wasn't necessarily talking into the microphone.

I was talking to her, but it was close.

And I said,

I'm sorry, ma'am.

I don't speak Spanish.

I'm American.

The world ended for like a week all over the, like, broke the internet.

Aaron Lewis, a racist.

Aaron Lewis, this.

A racist?

Right.

Because I said, I'm sorry, ma'am.

I don't speak Spanish.

I am American.

That was what I

beats me.

But that's what went around.

Perez Hilton did a hit piece on me about how much of a racist I am, put the video connected to it.

And if you watch the video, you see that the whole interview is, I mean, the whole piece is a complete bullshit and a complete fabrication of all of it.

And they would write these hit pieces and actually attach the video that completely contradicted the hit piece.

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

But it doesn't matter because people wouldn't actually, they just read.

Perez Hilton.

Boy, I haven't heard that name in a while.

Is he still alive?

I don't know.

Boy, that's.

I don't know.

Maybe the vax got him.

I don't know.

Possible.

That's wild.

So you are a racist for saying.

But I don't speak Spanish.

I'm American.

When America, it says clearly in the books, in the naturalization process, that you have to have a full working knowledge of the English language before you can become a citizen in this country.

Yeah.

Well,

you know,

English is not a race.

The United States is not a race.

There's nothing about race in that sentence or sentiment.

I know.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, boy.

Wow, you just brought me back to an earlier time.

I don't think that would happen now.

I don't know.

People are so over that.

People are over it, but I think that that side of things probably still would have tried.

Well, now they call you an anti-Semite.

Probably does.

I'm a, I'm a, I'm any of the issues.

Right.

Oh, wow.

That's wild.

So, how did, how did your manager and a assorted handler's record label feel about this?

I mean,

it was just one of those things where you just had to kind of let it go by.

Yeah.

Just let it die out.

Let it play its course and go away.

Was the crowd mad when you said that?

No.

Yeah.

Right.

No.

And then I tried one more time to sing the song.

And they wouldn't listen.

And I put my guitar down on the stage and walked off stage.

Oof.

What'd you do?

I was already two plus hours into a show.

It's not like they, they, they, they were like, it's not like any of the show got taken away from them at all.

I was done.

I was just trying to do something special.

And, and they didn't want it.

So.

So did you ever have direct conflict with an employer over politics?

With an employer?

Yeah, with the label.

I mean,

my record label president,

we've had some pretty

heated

discussions about politics.

And

he,

I mean, when you do the whole breakdown and you start talking really bare-bones basics,

there's a lot of things that he agrees with me on.

But when you bring all the rest of it in,

we don't see eye to eye on much of anything.

Right.

I get that a lot.

Reasonable people, similar values, actually, but they're just, they see themselves so differently and they're just committed to some weird partisan addiction.

It's almost like a feel-good addiction, like a, like a,

um,

like it's a virtue-signaling addiction that people

seem to have that

for some reason feel so guilty about their own life

that

they need to create these

things to

virtue signal and make themselves feel like a better person.

Because at the end of the day,

how they present themselves and behave in life is

unfulfilling for them.

So they somehow have to virtue signal to make them feel better about their unfulfilled lives.

It's a very strange, strange thing.

I have found

as a 53-year-old man,

looking at the people that are younger than me that are going to take over this country when I'm gone,

they just want to be a victim.

Like, it's the craziest thing happening with our culture where all of our younger generation,

there's more pride taken in being a victim than there is in

getting over and getting through and moving past

whatever it is that you were a victim of.

It's not pull your bootstraps up and

stand up and keep moving forward anymore.

It's lavish in the victimhood as long as possible.

And that just doesn't compute with me.

No.

Like, I don't, that's not what I was taught at all.

At all.

At all.

You weren't encouraged to whine as a child?

No.

I wasn't either.

Honestly, if I was whining, I don't think that

my voice was even acknowledged.

Of course not, as it shouldn't be.

Right.

Do you feel guilty about growing up as rich as you did going to Hotchkiss and Yale and all the advantages that you had?

I grew up

very much

like

most in this country.

We were.

lower middle class at best.

The first memories that I have are living in a single wide trailer in a trailer park in Castleton, Vermont.

Charming place.

Super charming.

It's not the Vermont of weekend getaways, is it?

Not so much.

It's not Stowe, really.

And

my dad,

back in the 60s,

He bought a hunting camp up on the side of a mountain in Shrewsbury, and he moved us from the trailer park to that hunting camp.

It's in the Song Country Board.

My dad picked the place up for $1,500 back in 1964.

He bought this hunting camp on the side of a mountain for $1,500.

And he moved us into that hunting camp.

And by the time we moved, he sold that same place for $85,000, I think.

And that

was what put us in a regular middle-class neighborhood at that point.

That was the up that he, that he turned that $1,500 investment into 80 something.

I've always wanted to live at my hunting camp.

I think that's the dream for a lot of people.

I would just like to live in a hunting camp.

What was that like?

As good as

a kid?

Yeah.

Lonely.

I bet.

Lonely.

I had to keep myself occupied for sure.

I was out in the middle of the woods as a five-year-old kid.

What'd your mom say?

What does a woman say when her husband moves her to a hunting camp?

I don't think my mom minded.

I don't think my mom minded.

There was like, she had the garden out front and

they were always,

I mean, my parents were kind of hippie-ish.

Yeah, that sounds good.

I mean, my dad got.

arrested at the Yankee nuclear power plant for protesting back in the day before it was up and running.

Yes.

Was it, I mean, what was deer season like if you already live in the hunting camp?

It wasn't there.

We would go to Wallingford and to Damby and

up where the family was.

And the Lewis farm was in Danby and was, you know,

half of the

Danby is almost like a...

almost like a volcano, like an inactive volcano where at the top of of

the mountain,

there's a valley.

So it's like an old, like an ancient, ancient volcano that at some point blew off, but you would never know.

But there's a valley on the top of the mountain.

And that was the valley that Lewis, the Lewis farm was in.

And it was like

top 10 dairy farms in Vermont.

And

so the farm is is where we would go and everybody would gather up and we would do the classic drives and pushes and

all that stuff.

And it was always rifle.

I didn't get into bow hunting until later in life.

Yeah.

Well, it didn't, there wasn't much of it.

Not really, not then.

No.

No, I mean, bows have really come a long way

since like the mid-80s to now.

I remember the first time I heard it, I thought it was like one of the not bad.

I wasn't against it, but I was like, wow, you kill a deer with a bow?

Like Hiawatha?

Like that was wild.

Huh.

Do you still hunt in fish?

I do all the time.

I'm so completely ate up with upland bird hunting.

And

I'm from New England, so I had never hunt quail before.

And I, earlier this year, went on my first quail hunt.

And, oh, my God, that was it for me.

Really?

That was it for me.

Like I have gone,

I

went probably 15 times since I

found quail hunting and I hunted all the way up until the last day of the season in Florida is April 15th.

15th or 20th, maybe, or somewhere around there, and literally hunted all the way through to the last day.

What do you like about it?

Everything.

The tradition.

The tradition is the biggest thing for me.

Like, I'm all about it.

I'm hunting with a gun that

should be in a museum or in somebody's private collection.

And those are my hunting guns.

What do you hunt with?

I'm a big 410 guy.

I love the 410.

It's the smallest of the shotgun gauges.

It is the smallest of the shotgun gauges.

It is the most gentlemanly, if you will.

But I'll be out there in full fils and regalia and

looking like I just came out of a out of a safari or something.

And

I'm all about it.

I respect the tradition of it,

the camaraderie,

the dogs.

Oh my God, I love watching the dogs work.

They're unbelievable.

Watching a dog slam into a point like that, like

somebody just shot him with electricity.

Just

it's amazing.

It is amazing.

It is amazing.

It is amazing that

that's almost as enjoyable as the actual flush and the shot is actually watching the dogs.

I totally agree with that.

That's half, three-quarters of the enjoyment is experiencing that whole thing with the dogs and how amazingly trained they are.

I mean, just

how does a dog know to do that?

I don't know.

It's amazing.

It's latent.

I mean, it's in the dog.

Your job is to bring it out.

It stinks you will, and then you got to bring it out.

That's it.

It's amazing.

Can you hit a quail with a 410?

Almost every time.

Really?

Yes, sir.

You're doing 180 shows a year.

How'd you get to be such a good shot?

I had

a,

I

was hunting with my dad, bird hunting for rough grouse and woodcock, just like you love so much

at

seven,

eight.

Yep.

I think I got my first double for woodcocks at 10 or 11.

Got my first double on grouse at like

12 or 13.

Wow.

I've never done that.

The grouse one was like, it couldn't have been more perfect.

Three grouse all went up at the same time and they all flew straight away from me.

I probably could have got a triple if I was using a semi-auto and not a triple.

You had another barrel.

So for people who don't, I mean, I'm sure we're going to lose an audience point here, but for people who don't know what New England grouse hunting is, can you describe it?

A grouse is a big woodland bird about the size of a chicken.

About the size of a chicken.

And

they strut like a turkey does.

Yeah.

And they're one of the most beautiful birds.

And they're one of the hardest.

Yes.

They're as fast as an F-15

and you literally have,

if you get two seconds as a window of opportunity for that shot.

That's a lot.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

That's a lot.

They go off and it's like

and they're gone.

You literally have that much.

and they're gone.

And the noise I'm making is what it sounds like when they take off from their bird, from their wings hitting their body.

And it will stop your heart.

Yeah.

And they're no pen-raised rough grouse.

I mean, they're just all wild birds.

100%.

And they're as wild as wild gets.

And

for you to go out and have a successful day of roughed grouse hunting or partridge, as they're also called.

Yeah.

You've, you've accomplished something.

That's for sure.

You get a limit and you're actually done for the day and can't keep hunting for the day with roughed grouse.

You have accomplished something.

If you're doing it on foot, I've never done that, but

never limited out on grouse.

But like how many, how far per bird do you think you walk in grouse hunting?

Miles.

Miles,

unless you have found a thick population, you will cover some ground and you will put in a lot of work.

It's probably why I I like quail hunting.

Because

I'm 53.

I don't necessarily want

to walk into a piece of woods that is up and down and the thickest.

Of course, they live in the thickest crap.

Oh, yeah.

So you're really, really, really, really putting in a lot of effort.

to possibly put up one bird.

Where with quail hunting, if you go to a plantation where that's their deal is quail hunting,

with a nice leisurely stroll, nice leisurely, gentlemanly stroll through the woods, you can put up a hundred birds instead of possibly one.

Yeah.

In that sense,

the hot and heavy action is what kind of keeps

makes the quail hunting thing kind of at the top,

if you will.

Quail hunting is a rich man's sport.

Rough grouse hunting in New England is a is a poor man's sport.

Quail hunting is a rich man's sport because of the fact that the majority of the quail hunting that you can do at this point

in our society and in our growth as a country, everything else,

it's really hard to actually find

wild quail to begin with.

So

what you're hunting is a put and take situation.

So there's an overhead to it.

Yeah.

And

you're paying anywhere from

a thousand to

astronomical prices to go and hunt this place.

Some places are insane and so exclusive and so private that even if you had the ridiculous amount of money to pen, you can't.

But

yes,

yes,

it is

a rich man sport in the sense that

it's hard to go do it on your own time with no dime.

For sure.

You got to go to a place that, for the most part, you got to go to a place that it charges you because there's a massive overhead for the cost of the birds and the cost of everything.

So

if, you know, musician, if you had to pair a musician with these two kinds of up on bird hunting, you'd say Bruce Springsteen, who's the representative of America's Working Man.

Oh, yeah, totally.

He would be aggressive.

I would put him as my representation any day.

Do you know Bruce Springsteen?

No, thankfully.

What do you think of him?

I think that

he is

a disgusting display

of not appreciating what was handed to him.

for as in this country as being an American, the success that he has had

the fact that he duped us all with one of the most anti-American songs ever and called it born in the USA as some sort of celebration of how great it is to be born in the USA.

I'm angry at myself

for not seeing it for so long and actually giving him, in my mind,

the credit of being a representation of blue-collar America.

I think that

he has forgotten where he came from.

I think that

if you're not careful

doing this,

this career that me and him have both been so blessed to have had, if you're not careful,

it will consume you.

And it's obvious that it creates a situation where you've lost sight

of the reality of the country that you live in

because

you've lived such a

cush.

You've had so much,

you have so much that it's really easy to take

a stance

that is so anti

everything

that

you that you were lucky enough to

have,

lucky enough to create,

lucky enough to

to be to

change

your situation in life

and he's just lost touch with the struggles he's lost touch with the struggle

and it seems like

most people who have lost touch with the true struggle of life

Those are the people that vote for these fucking idiots.

Those are the people that feel like they have to virtue signal.

Those are the people that

somewhere along the way, they

feel guilty for the success that they have had.

So they somehow have to

make it up with this

nonsensical bullshit that

like you grew up at the same time, Treme, I did.

It was the most unracially driven.

The

verbal beating that we took over and over and over our whole childhood of you don't judge a man by the color of his skin.

You judge a man by the content of his character.

And like

it was the best that our country has ever been.

And I think that that didn't work well for the Democrats and the Communists.

Why?

Because they thrive in the chaos.

They want us at each other's throats.

They want us bickering internally

so that

we have no sense of

shared country pride, that we have no sense of shared morality because they've created so many things

artificially for us to fight about.

I mean,

there is no doubt in my mind at this point.

It's not coincidental.

It's purposeful.

Like,

there is definitely

a power center in this

world

that definitely does not want to see us as the

shining light on the hill.

No, no.

At all.

They're against peace and prosperity and

self-sufficiency and God.

Yeah.

No, I couldn't.

There's no money in it.

How can they exploit us if we're all united and getting along?

When we're all looking out for each other as human beings, how can they exploit us?

They can't.

So

they have to keep us in a constant state of conflict.

When did you start to realize this?

As I got old enough to be carrying the weight of that responsibility on my shoulders,

like knowing full well that, okay, it's my turn now.

I have assumed the responsibility, which we are all supposed to do, that

the country is in my hands.

It was in my father's hands before that.

It was in my grandfather's hands before that.

And

as our generations grow and get older, each generation, it's now their turn to become and take over as the stewards of this amazing, beautiful country.

And

we forgot about that for a little bit.

And we haven't been doing that over the probably the past 30 years.

And

that's not okay with me.

Like, it is my responsibility now as a father and a proud patriot.

It's my responsibility now to make sure that

what I

hand over to the next generation behind me

is better than I found it because that's, that's what we're supposed to do.

That's, that's what we were taught our whole lives.

You walk into the woods, you leave it cleaner than you found it.

You find one piece of trash.

It doesn't even matter.

One piece of trash and you pick it up and you put it in your pocket.

You have left that better than you found it.

And

our generation, that's what was instilled in us, beaten into us.

That's for sure.

Yeah,

I still come from the generation.

I come from the generation of

still, it's probably the last generation of as a kid.

Now, did it fuck me up and make me feel like my voice doesn't get heard?

And I like I and like

an incessant thing for me is to be heard because I didn't feel like my voice was heard as a kid at all.

Because I was like the last generation of kids that are, kids are to speak when they're spoken to.

And that's it.

Like that's, I got that from my grandparents.

Like children are only to speak when they're spoken to.

That's fair.

And children are to be seen and not heard.

Also, fair.

Unless they have something interesting to say.

Sure.

Yeah.

But if you don't, I think in general, if you don't have something interesting to say, I think that all should probably be quite all supports the whole thing of

because I said so.

It doesn't, I don't have to give you a reason as my child as to why.

Like, because I said so.

There's a huge lesson with that in life.

Your boss isn't going to explain to you why you have to do something.

He's going to tell you to do something, and you need to just do it.

There's going to be situations in life where if somebody tells you to do something and you hesitate and don't do it, your life could be in danger.

It's just a,

it's a lost art form.

It's a lost art form.

Parenting is a lost art form.

I said that all the way back in 2001 on the cover of Rolling Stone.

Parents have forgotten how to be parents.

Like, I realized that all the way back then.

And it's only gotten worse.

Yeah.

The average kid these days, the biggest parental figure in their life is their computer or their phone.

It's not their parent.

Yeah, it's the internet.

It's insane.

We are

knowingly and willingly

flushing everything down the toilet out of convenience.

It's so convenient to have this fully operating computer in my hand at all times.

It's so convenient.

Every

important

piece of thread that makes up the fabric of this country

is being picked out one at a time.

And it's going to leave us with this empty shell

that

nobody knows what to do with it now

because we've already discarded and thrown away everything that kept us on a

path, on a good path in life.

It feels like new people will rebuild rebuild a new and different society in place of the

Americans who were here when you and I were born.

And that's scary.

Oh, I know.

That's scary.

If we hand this country off as the stewards of today,

if we hand this country off to the younger generation without fixing it first,

and they're able to do what they've been taught to do,

this country will cease to exist.

Certainly will not be the shining light on the hill anymore.

I don't know that it is already.

I mean,

the love and want and desire for this country to go back to

where it was for a lot of people is still strong.

But I don't know if we have the wherewithal as a society, as an entire country,

to pull our heads out of our asses long enough to fix it.

It's scary.

I'm scared.

I'm scared for my kids.

I lose sleep over

what this country is going to be for,

good Lord, my grandkids.

It's bad enough for my kids.

Yes.

But another generation, my grandkids,

if this doesn't, if this ship doesn't get righted,

what are they even going to have?

Is their life going to even have the sem even the slightest semblance of what our lives were?

Do our kids now, is their life even the slightest semblance of what me and you had as kids?

No fucking way.

How's it different?

You've got three kids.

We were latchkey kids.

You didn't even have to lock your door.

Like you came home and

so many parents weren't even there,

and there was no worry.

Like,

I never had a key to my house.

I don't have a key to my house now, actually.

Because of where you live, yeah, well, right.

No, that's right.

And I love it out here.

This is like

no, I agree.

No, but you're right.

I mean, the feeling of safety

was kind of unquestioned.

The feeling of trust,

just just overall trust of your fellow man,

it's extinct.

It doesn't really exist anymore.

So you travel by vehicle, by bus, through America.

I don't like to fly.

I literally have not flown on a commercial plane since everything shut down for COVID.

Wow.

Good for you.

I drive everywhere

unless I absolutely have to fly,

and then I am guilty.

I won't fly commercial.

But once, maybe twice a year, when I absolutely have to fly,

I will be bougie and

get a plane.

But because you're traveling overland the majority of the year.

I see what this country is.

Exactly.

So that's, what do you see?

And you've been doing this for what, 30 years?

You've been on the road across America.

I have watched the flyover states

just

crumble.

You go into a small town,

half the businesses are boarded up.

You know, those small, classic, what you would think of as Americana, those Norman Rockwell towns,

they're all boarded up.

There's nobody downtown.

There's no commerce.

There's a Dollar General down the street.

There's a Walmart 10 minutes away, but every mom and pop

shop is all gone.

Family businesses that have, that have provided for that family and provided for the town with the business that they provide, it's all gone.

Everywhere?

Pretty much.

Pretty much.

What are the you play in every region of the country?

Yeah.

What are the toughest parts of the country right now?

Rural.

Yeah.

Rural.

Second you leave the cities.

And that was.

And it's undeniable.

Visually right there in front of your face, you have to close your eyes to not see it.

So why does no one ever mention that?

I never,

every U.S.

senator I know, I know all the Republicans, I mean, they're very upset about Iran.

or Ukraine, but I don't ever hear them mention their own states outside the cities.

I know, it's disgusting.

And these are supposed to be the people that are the representatives of that area.

You wonder, has Tom Cotton ever been to the Delta in Arkansas?

Like, when was the last time?

Seriously, when was the last time he was in El Dorado, Arkansas?

Right.

And I've been through all of Arkansas,

and it's

poverty-stricken and falling apart.

Yeah, I know.

And that's anywhere.

Tennessee.

I know.

Like anywhere.

I know.

30 years ago, 40 years ago, Pine Bluff, Arkansas was a real town.

And now, you know, it's one of the most dangerous places in the country.

I just wonder, like, what do they think?

I don't know.

And I don't understand why

their policies never work.

No.

Like, they never, ever work.

I don't know of a single

communist policy

that has actually

done good

for whoever it was that the policy was

designed for.

None of them.

Right.

It's only about destruction.

It is.

It's only about destruction.

Well, here's a story you probably haven't heard a lot about.

The Chinese mafia is exploiting rural America to create a drug empire.

This is not available on cable news.

The network's not telling you about this, but it's totally real.

Communist-affiliated drug gangs destroying parts of the United States, the parts that Washington ignores, to sell drugs, laundering money and building a black market network inside this country's most beautiful but least served areas.

We've got a brand new documentary on this.

It's called High Crimes, the Chinese Mafia Takeover of Rural America.

It's available now on tuckercarlson.com.

It's excellent.

The purchase of churches and schools to aid the operation, the jerry-rigging of power boxes to steal electricity, foreign pesticides, collusion with the Mexican cartels.

It's unbelievable.

By the way, one of the drug houses is like walking distance from my house.

I didn't know that.

It's a layered and fascinating story.

Head to tuckercarlson.com to watch now.

We think you'll love it.

So

here's one of my favorite quotes.

My favorite Aaron Lewis quotes.

my book of Aaron Lewis quotes.

You know, everyone want, you know, everyone in music is like an outlaw, I'm a rebel, and they all say the same thing, and they all mouth the same pieties, read the same stupid bumper stickers, kiss ass to the same powerful people.

So this, this actually is kind of an outlaw thing to say, and here's what you said in 2022.

And I'm quoting you, you know, as fucked up as it sounds, maybe we should listen to what Vladimir Putin is saying.

I got in so much trouble for that.

And I will continue to quote you back to you.

Maybe when Klaus Schwab and George Soros and every other earth-destroying MF are all jump on the same bandwagon, maybe just maybe we should take a good look at that.

Why are they trying to protect Ukraine so much?

What do they all have to lose?

So I would think like in a

country with creative people, a free country, that you would be one of many people asking the single most obvious questions.

Why can't we listen to what the other side is saying?

And And why are all these people who were pretty obviously bad all so vested in this one faraway country?

Like, what do they have to lose?

I mean, first of all, bless you for saying that.

Second, did anyone ever answer your question?

Nope.

Nope.

I lost employees.

Employees?

Oh, yeah.

People that, not direct employees in my, like, in my knit circle,

but external employees people that worked for me in in different areas that wouldn't that that wanted nothing to do with it anymore it's it's a it's a funny story and you're part of it the reason i said that is because i had literally just watched your show oh gosh and you were the one to say hmm maybe we should have maybe we should listen to putin and see what he has to say and i was like well if tucker has said it on fox

How that worked out for me.

It worked out for both of us the same way.

And I agree.

It worked out for both of us the same way.

It took weeks for that one to go away.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

But I just, I am not an artist.

I'm a guy who gives his opinions on YouTube, but I

appreciate artists, which is to say people whose whole job is to pursue the truth, you know, whether they get there or not.

But I mean, that's their job.

And every society carves out room for them to do that.

And a healthy society isn't run by artists.

Don't want them.

They're not in charge of the power grid.

Okay.

But a healthy society does kind of listen sometimes to what they say because they're saying unconventional things, challenge you to think a little more deeply about things you assume are true.

Are they actually true?

You pay artists to say things like that.

So it's just wild to live in a society where artists are leading the charge for conformity.

They're like, no, no, no, obey.

When did that happen?

I don't know, but it's very weird.

It seems like

what

once was like

on that edge is now so blunted, and everybody is just a spokesperson person for the machine.

It does feel that way.

Because they're all afraid of losing their position in the machine.

Yeah.

When all of the higher-ups

think the opposite that you do,

most of the time in this industry,

those

people don't have the wiggle room that I do.

Yeah.

So they have to conform

or they lose their spot.

I was lucky enough to have built and created my spot.

Before I chose to not conform.

Right.

So

I didn't necessarily lose my spot just because I didn't conform because I had already built it and they couldn't take that away from me at that point.

Like

they've already tried to cancel me.

They've already done everything that they can do to talk shit about me.

So now they just ignore my existence.

Now they don't even say bad things.

They just don't say anything at all.

It doesn't seem to have affected your sales.

Doesn't seem to.

You had one of the biggest songs in the country a couple of years ago.

Everybody hated it.

Everybody in charge hated it.

Am I the only one?

Yeah.

Yeah.

There was an outward call within the industry for me to be canceled and to lose my record deal.

And

my record label president, who we don't see eye to eye on politics at all,

stood up for my right to free speech and

my right to creativity.

and as an artist, my right to express myself however I want.

What didn't they like about the song?

That it was

a patriotic, country-loving

point out the what the fuck is going on right now

point of view.

And they didn't like that.

They didn't like that

I was pointing out the obvious

in a time where

every single one of us was sitting there scratching our heads going, what in the fuck is going on in this country?

I'm 49 or 50 at the time or whatever it was.

And

I've never seen anything even remotely close to what's going on right now in this country.

Like,

where did our sense of free people go, where all of a sudden we're just conforming to these rules that just don't make any sense?

It seems like they're just taking handfuls of shit and throwing it against the wall and seeing what sticks.

And I was like,

What the fuck?

Am I the only one

who's seeing this, who's who's recognizing how completely

how completely absurd the whole concept was of

shutting

everything down?

How do we survive that as

an economy, as a as a as a

the wheels that need to keep moving at all times just screeched to a freaking halt

And,

you know, me and Jeff Steele and Ira Dean got together, and

everybody was wearing masks at the time.

Everybody

was distancing themselves from everybody.

That moment in time was one of the most destructive moments in time that we've ever experienced.

It destroyed

our close-knitness, close-knitness.

It destroyed

human beings

are social people.

They want to be in groups.

They want to be together.

We want to come together instinctively.

And to do that,

like

there's a whole lot of people that

are responsible for that,

should be held accountable for what they did.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm still blown away by it.

I still feel like the words to that song

are just as relevant

to

this moment that we are sitting in right now

as it was five years ago when we were locked up and told that we had to wear masks and that we couldn't,

I had a mask in my car

just to put on

if I went into Dunkin' Donuts or if I, and that didn't even last for very long.

A month into it, I was like, this is fucking bullshit.

I'm not, I got thrown out of Dunkin' Donuts one day for walking in without my mask on.

You're thrown at Dunkin' Donuts?

And like,

rudely.

Really?

Like, you are putting everybody in this, in this place's life in danger.

And you should be ashamed of yourself.

I was like, wait, Dunkin' Donuts is the place where homeless junkies shoot up in the back.

Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Same place, yeah.

Yeah, okay.

But what you were doing was unclean.

Right.

Yeah.

So, like, yeah, I never knew that people were that easy to train.

I never knew they were that obedient.

I never knew there were that many people with no self-respect at all.

At the time, I was living in

a very, very

left

town.

Which town?

Massachusetts, Northampton, Massachusetts.

Lesbian capital of the world.

It's where Smith College is.

It is a festering...

cesspool of anti-American everything.

What's the happiness level, would you say, in Northampton meant?

Misery.

don't see it.

I don't see anybody smiling ever.

Ever.

They are all

these people that feel the need to virtue signal every time they turn around are some of the most miserable people you've ever met in your life.

Oh, I've noticed.

Oh, yeah.

What are they mad about?

Their own failures.

I don't know.

I don't know why

it's such an incessant need

these days to to do it like just live a good life

all this virtue signaling all this all this fake outrage just just live a good life yeah

treat people good you'll get treated good in return

how'd they how'd they treat you in northampton

if they knew who i was probably not very good country music's not that big in northampton i'm not i'm a

I'm not

the

artist,

celebrity.

I hate, I don't even like using that word.

It makes me feel weird.

I'm not,

I'm not the artist that wants to get noticed.

I try my best to stay under the radar.

A successful day for me of going out and about is not getting noticed.

So

it doesn't,

I don't even remember where I was.

Sometimes I get on a roll and I lose track.

Well, you just picked the right town for anonymity.

I mean, if you were, say, the Indigo Girls

or the Dixie Chips.

You wouldn't be able to walk down the street.

No.

But

you really

did you choose Northampton because you know not a single person there has ever heard of your music?

At the time, it was out of convenience.

But

I certainly would not choose,

nor do I, now that I don't live in downtown Northampton,

I don't choose to go there.

I will go into Northampton for pretty much one reason and one reason only.

And

his name is Sam, and he is the sushi chef at Moshi Moshi.

Oh.

And I will go and I will sit down at the sushi bar with Sam, drink sake with him, and eat sushi.

So you'll make the sushi pilgrimage,

but no more residential time there.

No.

What's your...

Let me ask you a couple

questions about what you like.

I want to try that flavor.

Oh, it's the best.

This is sweet nectar.

We just came out with it, and I got like a case of it.

So I've been on it and I really what are the other two new flavors the other couple flavors I know that I heard you we have a bunch we've got fruit and mint and winter green and all that but this is um

and we've got a bunch of other flavors we're working on but that uh

the government makes it hard to introduce new flavors it's crazy well because you're you're advertising you're trying to get the kids that's what it is yeah I can't I'm not even allowed to talk about that topic nicotine for the children it's totally verboten um i started really young i'll just say that.

And I'm glad I did.

But anyway, I know everyone disagrees with me, but that's how I actually feel.

So I'm just going to say it.

I had my first cigarette at eight.

And I've been

young.

And I've actually been smoking like

half a pack of cigarettes.

I've been smoking since I was like 13.

Yeah, me too.

But I quit at 45.

And what brand do you smoke?

American Spirits.

It's a a good cigarette.

It is, as far as a cigarette goes.

It's delicious.

It's delicious.

It doesn't have all the extra 1,600 chemicals that they put in there to make it more addictive, to make it burn faster, to make it burn slower.

They even put chemicals in there that are contradictory to themselves.

Yeah, for

fire-proofing their cigarettes.

I mean, it's all.

Yeah.

And then an American Spirit will go out on its own.

No, I know.

If you, I smoked American Spirit Blues, um,

the light blue, and I always took the filters off.

And I just thought, wow, that's like, that's the strongest cigarette made in America.

If you do that, it's an incredible cigarette.

I don't smoke anymore.

Anyway, sorry.

So I'm not promoting smoking, though it is delicious.

A very delicious,

more delicious than anything I've ever done before or since.

I'm just, that's why people do it.

By the way, the piety around smoking, obviously, smoking is not good for you.

I don't want my topic.

It's not good for you.

It smells, it looks gross.

All of those things.

I disagree.

And

it's

such a satisfying

five minutes removed off your life.

Well, you think about people who kind of openly, brazenly, publicly send young men off to die in pointless wars on behalf of some other country.

Like that's just.

That's just par in the U.S.

Congress.

They all can't wait to do that and they face no moral sanction whatsoever.

But if you were to light a cigarette and someone saw you, you'd be like a monster.

Look, I'm not arguing for smoking.

I'm just saying it's good to have a sensible moral hierarchy in mind when you assess other people's behavior.

Like some things are bad, but some things are worse than that.

Right.

Right.

And make your choices accordingly.

Well, kind of, and make your judgments accordingly.

I mean, I do think violence is bad.

Sure.

And sending off other people's kids to die is one of the worst things I can imagine.

And yet that's celebrated.

You would think that that would be like

a really hard decision

to make.

It's not.

No, it's like the easiest decision for them to make.

Lindsey Graham literally can't wait.

And I do think all of them should be forced to go to the front lines in Ukraine and worry about getting droned.

How about that?

Not because I wish them harm, but because there should be some skin in the game.

I just want some fucking truth.

Yeah, I agree.

I want to know

why

Lindsey Graham is such

a

Ukraine.

Like, what

were you doing over there, Lindsay, in 2014?

Fair to ask.

What were you doing?

Why are you so vested in Ukraine?

Why would you put Ukraine

over everything else?

Like, what is going on?

I mean,

as you know, as so many people are fully aware, the Ukraine is one of the dirtiest and most corrupt places in the world, aside from the United States.

Run by a Stalinist, by the way, who canceled elections, closed the biggest Christian denomination in the country, put the priests and nuns in prison, like him murdering his political enemies, I can't go to Ukraine.

I'd get killed if I went to Ukraine, a country that my tax dollars support.

And Lindsey Graham is like, no, that's great.

I don't know.

I mean, let's just wake up a second.

This is bonkers.

It's degrading us.

It's beyond immoral.

It's like self-harm at scale.

It's crushing the United States.

It just makes me wonder how many of these politicians that make these decisions that we're like, what the fuck are you even thinking?

Did you get caught in a honeypot?

Did you do something and they caught you doing it?

And now they have you under their thumb?

Oh, I know.

Like

Madison Cawthorne got ran out

because he started mentioning stuff like that, started talking about the parties that happened.

And start,

they got rid of him as fast as they could.

He's a good dude.

Well, Matt Gates, same thing.

Matt Gates, same thing.

They're like, oh, you

sex with.

I don't know how Marjorie Taylor Greene has somehow made it this far, aside from

being a woman.

I don't think they have anything on her.

I think she's like a decent person.

Yeah, I think she's incredible.

But it was so funny with Gates.

They're like, he starts making, you know, unauthorized noises about this or that.

And all of a sudden they're like, well, you had sex with children.

Okay.

Where's the evidence?

And by the way, where's the indictment?

They never indict him for it.

Oh, I know.

So how can you accuse somebody of a crime and then not the government is accusing him of a crime and then not indicting him for it?

Why is that not a crime in itself?

If Matt Gates had sex with children, indict him, arrest him, put him on trial and prove it.

Or

you're in trouble yourself

for

destroying his character.

Using my tax dollars to commit slander against your political opponents?

Yeah, that's a crime.

Right.

But no one's ever prosecuted for it.

What that does is it puts the fear of God into all the other freaks in Congress, all of whom have some, not all, but many of whom have something to hide, including people we've just mentioned.

And they're like, whoa, you know, I better stay way away from the boundaries because I could get hurt.

It just casts a pall over everybody of fear.

You obviously don't feel that.

No.

How long can you do 180 shows a year?

If I'm doing the country thing?

Yeah.

Forever.

Really?

well Willie Nelson does it he's 90 yeah I could I can

if I live that long I could I could still be the country thing I could still be doing that the stained thing that's a that's a little bit more taxing yeah I believe to my to my voice it's a lot of yelling it's a lot of screaming it's it's

it's a it's a lot more taxing to where

if I'm being completely honest, there's probably more of a shelf life

to my country thing than there is to the stained thing.

There's probably going to come a point where I'm going to have to be like, you know what,

it's too taxing on me and it takes too long for me to recover from being on tour with Stained for a month.

And there's probably going to come a point where I'm going to be like,

for longevity's purposes,

I need to either do less shows or not so many in a row

or

the country thing.

Man, I could do three shows a day every single day and never blow myself out and enjoy it.

You have to be pretty damn blessed in life

to be able to continue

enjoying

a job.

It is a job at the end of the day.

I'm blessed that I was able to

create my job around something that I love and that I'm driven to do.

But as a job,

There's parts of that that kind of ruin the experience of it all.

There's it's the music business

The music part I love.

Yeah, the business part

It

It can ruin the part that I love so much.

That's why no one enjoys porn.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said that.

No, but it's true.

I mean like any anytime you you know, take a good thing and and make it a business it it diminishes it, of course.

Oh, God.

Our poor kids these days, they're they're sex addicts and porn addicts before they even had sex.

Yeah, I know.

It's depressing.

They're learning about sex through porn.

Yeah.

And yeah,

that's a healthy sex life.

It's, yeah.

Yeah.

Speaking of like creating a moral hierarchy, the people who make and profit from porn,

I mean, I don't know why they're not in prison, but.

I talk about exploitation.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

But it's the cigarette smokers and the people who doubt Zelensky who really should lose their jobs.

Okay, let me end on a happy note.

So you've said a lot of tough things about the music business and the people who profit from it.

You described them as leeches.

I don't know that to be true because I've never been in your business, but we all know that.

It's a leech.

We all know that.

Calling them a leech,

that's a pretty negative connotation.

Just a blood-sucking parasite.

In general, what a leech does is it parasites off of a living organism.

And

that leech

isn't the one that's responsible for the life that it's leeching off.

Exactly.

And so it's an analogy.

I don't want to be that

negative or like...

hateful about it.

I'm very grateful

to

my president, the record label president, for standing up for me.

But,

you know,

it's a business in a situation that

you stop paying attention for a half a second and you're ate up and spit out already and you're gone.

Yeah, I believe that.

So here's the question I want to end on, because it is a positive question.

Having been in it for 30 years, years, who are the good guys?

Who are the artists who you know personally who are actually

in the green room good guys?

Ooh, long sigh there.

I keep my circle pretty small.

You know,

Bob's my friend.

Debbie Kid Rock.

You know, I

don't interact very much with the rest of the industry, really.

I mean,

I don't find myself in Nashville very often.

I don't go to the gatherings and the parties and the and the I'm I live out in the corn and the soybeans and the tobacco and and and you know there's

miles in every direction around my house of just

agriculture

I so I don't really interact with the business very much

I'm I'm very particular about

my inner circle and and who I consider a friend.

And I don't

I don't have a lot of those.

So, I don't, I don't have a picture here, Aaron Lewis.

I gave you a chance.

I was like, All right, who are the good guys?

And you're like, Uh,

well, you know, this

business is

tough.

Would you want your kids to go into it?

No,

and and they've had my my oldest daughter, Zoe, is on one of my records singing, um,

uh, singing Traveling Soldier by the Dixie Chicks, actually.

And

I don't know, so many people approached me like,

I'll give her a record deal.

She doesn't want nothing to do with it.

My kids have been on the receiving end of all the shit that comes with this industry and all the sacrifice and all the all the

the the disappointment and the

you know i'm a i'm a slave to the grind

you know the grind

has taken precedent over important things in my life that i can never get back

you know monumental things my kids first steps my kids first words my kids

first days of school my kids last days of school my kids graduations

i haven't been able to be there for a lot of them.

The

sacrifice is real.

Yeah.

But it's created a situation where

I just don't let very many people in.

So

in a big roundabout circle, to answer your question,

I have a lot of acquaintances in the industry.

Like there's people that I have huge love and respect for.

I'm like pen pals, like me and you text all the time.

Me and Marilyn Manson text all the time.

Yeah.

I haven't seen that.

He'd actually surprise you.

I interviewed him in the 90s, Brian, and

I thought he was smart in maybe 1999 at the Chateau Marmont in L.A.

Brian is one of the most intelligent, profound conversations I have ever had with somebody.

And I use the word evil lightly, but he's like an evil genius.

He is fully aware of every single button he is purposely pushing.

Like all, it's all been

He's a genius.

Like it's all been calculated.

It's all

like he knows exactly what he's doing he knows exactly what buttons he's pushing and he's pushing them on purpose

interesting

he's amazing jonathan davis from corn one of my favorite people um

like you text with marilyn manson he's like my modern-day pen pal we never actually talk on the phone we just text

Give him my best.

I will.

Aaron Lewis, thank you.

Thank you.

I'm going to go bird shooting with you.

I look forward to it.

I can't wait.

I can't wait to

watch you use your new hammer gun.

I don't know if I'll be able to use it correctly, but we'll find out.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

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