Bill Gates, Truth About Vaccines, & Big Pharma’s Plot to Destroy Doctors Who Question ”The Science”

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So, thank you for doing this.

I I think you're a hero.

I just want to say that this is not going to be an objective interview.

I want to thank you for everything you've done, and I want to hear a story, but I want to begin with a statement from the president just out now.

This is Donald J.

Trump on Truth Social, and I'm quoting, it is very important that the drug companies justify the success of their various COVID drugs.

Many people think they are a miracle that saved millions of lives.

Others disagree.

With the CDC now being ripped apart over this question, I want the answer and I want it now in all caps.

I've been shown information from Pfizer and others.

It's extraordinary, but they never seem to show those results to the public.

Why not?

They go off the next hunt and let everyone rip themselves apart, including Bobby Kennedy Jr.

and the CDC, trying to figure out the success or failure of the drug company's COVID work.

They show me great numbers and results, but they don't seem to be showing them to many others.

And I want them to show them now.

to CDC and the public and clear up this mess one way or the other.

I hope that Operation Warp Speed was brilliant, as many say it was.

If not, we all want to know about it and why.

Thank you for your attention to this very important matter, President DJT.

Wow.

What does that mean?

That is

a total reversal from what

I can't say it's a total reversal.

I'm really

encouraged by those words, significantly encouraged.

It's been a struggle with this whole operation warp speed and with what we know.

Yes.

We being physicians practicing.

Being physicians practicing, but not all physicians practicing.

We talked about this earlier, you know, where a very small percentage of us actually quote unquote know.

Okay.

Yes.

And,

but to hear that coming from him, where he may actually be questioning the Operation Warp Speed numbers that were put behind him and that were given to him before is a really, really interesting twist.

It's pretty unbelievable that he has to send something like this out, considering that companies like Pfizer and Moderna and their executives are all billionaires because of federal tax dollars.

So like this, these are not really private, I mean, they're publicly traded companies, but they're not in some kind of private sector business.

They are government contractors.

We're forced to take their products.

We have no recourse if those products hurt us because they have full immunity.

And so they're getting rich from our tax dollars, but we don't get to see the numbers.

Like maybe

someone should go to jail like right away.

What numbers is he seeing that he says have been really impressive numbers that we're not seeing?

Well, this Burla, the veterinarian Burla guy,

who I think is not a, he's a vet, right?

He's a vet, correct.

Right.

And you're a surgeon, but they try to put you in prison for the rest of your life.

But Burla is now a billionaire because he is involved in a scam where U.S.

tax dollars go into his pocket and there's nothing we can do about it.

Right.

And if you complain about it, by the way, then they shut you down and they censor you and they try to arrest you or

the Burla creep.

This ghoul has been showing up at the way.

He's been at the White House a bunch, I think.

Right.

And he's been spinning.

Oh, and Donald Trump has called him out saying, hey, this is my best friend, or not best friend, but this is a really good friend of mine, you know, Borla, and,

you know, and kind of praised what they've done.

Yeah, how about I call you and my dog has puppies?

Okay.

Like, what are you doing?

What is this?

Anyway, sorry, sorry, sorry.

So, so, but, but Trump's position up until apparently this morning, as far as I know, right, has been Operation Warp Speed, which he saved millions of lives.

Saves millions of lives.

It was like Jonas Salk's polio vaccine.

And

so this does.

So the last line in here is,

it was brilliant, as many say it was.

If not, we want to know what happened.

And that's, that's, like I said, that is the first time that I've heard him maybe somewhat question the effectiveness or, you know, what actually was behind Operation Warp Speed.

You know, Operation Warp Speed was a DOD operation.

It was run by a general, okay, General Perna.

And, you know, there's a lot of evidence out there, and Sasha Latapova and Catherine Watt, and a lot of people have put out information that essentially the DOD is who developed these

jabs, these COVID vaccines.

And then they in turn asked Pfizer and Moderna to slap their label on it for money

and then distribute them because it was a military operation in terms of this whole thing.

What's the U.S.

military doing in my healthcare?

Look, there's all kinds of agencies that are out there, and they have all these acronyms, ASPER, BARDA, DARPA.

I couldn't begin to tell you

what they stand for, but

it's crazy how much it was a change in

biological warfare when we back, I think I want to say in the 70s, when

chasing or biological warfare became a crime.

And we said we were going to get rid rid of everything that we do

and all of these biological weapons and all of these things here that, you know, that we could use to kill people by, you know, with

clouds of, you know, kind of germs.

Okay.

Lyme disease.

Lyme disease.

Yeah.

Excuse me.

Sorry.

No, sorry.

But when, so when we change, when we made, we actually passed a law.

It's a federal law that says we're not allowed to do that anymore.

Yeah, yeah.

We signed the convention, I think.

Yes.

And, but what happened is,

just like,

just like the scientists from Operation Paperclip went to the tobacco industry, okay,

and then from the tobacco industry to the food industry,

the scientists that went from these biological weapons development programs went to essentially an umbrella organization that was used to combat biological warfare.

So they used it under the auspices of

we are going to develop these things as an antidote or as a treatment for the potential bioweapons that somebody else is using.

Yeah, we're going to need to keep our research going

to defend ourselves against the Russian bioprogram.

Right.

And that's why we need all these biolabs in Ukraine and shut up conspiracy theorist, if you ask about them.

I will say as someone who smoked for many years and also got Lyme disease, that I got a lot more out of smoking than I did out of Lyme disease.

Okay.

So those are like, I guess,

two products of government programs and one was a lot better than the other from my perspective.

So, okay, I just had to i want a perspective on that so that was my yeah i'm i mean you said that came out this morning i had not seen that yeah everything up until this point was you know operation warp speed saved lives operation warp speed save millions of lives you know is the best thing you know the best thing that ever happened i'm so proud of what we did and you know and everything else and like you said he's been pushing um you know the the pfizer and moderna ceos and everything else and what a great job they did and everything else i'm really interested to see what numbers it is that they're showing them that they can't show the public we could fix all of this just by stripping them of their immunity i don't do you have blanket immunity?

Oh, my God.

In your job?

So I don't have blanket immunity.

Oh, you don't?

I don't either, actually.

So I get sued or whatever.

Look, so why do they have blanket immunity?

Well, one, vaccines have blanket immunity from the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act.

Right.

Okay.

And then the PrEP Act in 2005.

So the PrEP Act in 2005 further extended that that when they declare a state of emergency, then everybody,

there's no liability.

So now everything done under EUA has no liability.

And as a matter of fact, the law even says that our judicial branch can't even review that law.

So how is that constitutional and how has that not been challenged?

We're talking 20 years here where we had a legislative body in 2005 and signed by the president, George Bush at the time, that basically said that anything that's passed under emergency use authorization has no liability and the judicial branch of our government can't review it.

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So there are all of us U.S.

citizens, the little worker bees to keep the thing going.

And then there are our leaders, but then above even our leaders, above the Supreme Court of the United States, sits the vaccine industry.

And they're like the gods.

They're Zeus and Jupiter.

And there's literally nothing we can weaken to them.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

None of this.

I'm glad you figured that out.

It's dawning slowly.

I knew that I committed some kind of blasphemy, but I wasn't exactly sure against whom, but it's against Albert Burla, the vet.

And I am going to call him next time my dog gets distemper or,

you know, eats another mop.

I need someone to pull this strand.

Excuse me.

I love vets.

He's a discredit to the business.

Okay, your story.

You're a surgeon.

You live in.

in Utah.

You're from a military family.

Your dad was a test pilot, flew over 100 missions in Vietnam.

So you've been around the government a lot.

Obviously, you grew up in a government world.

COVID happens 2020.

Let's begin your story there.

So, yeah.

What were you doing?

What was your reaction to it?

So, COVID happens.

I'm operating.

I operate two days a week.

I see patients two, three days a week.

I operate Tuesday, Thursday.

I actually listen to podcasts,

probably listen to a lot of your shows.

2020, I was probably listening to a lot of Dan Bongino.

And, you know, and I also follow a guy that I used to do a lot of options trading with, and he used to trade his options based upon current world events.

And so he was talking about the whole COVID thing.

So all through January, February, and early March,

you know, he's doing trades and he's talking about, you know, all of this stuff that was happening with COVID and all of the people that were killing over in China and all the lockdowns that were happening and how it expanded into Italy and now it was into Spain and all this stuff.

And I had, I'm busy, Okay.

And

so I don't have a lot of time to do a lot of my own research and look into all of this stuff.

I mean, I'm conservative by nature anyway.

I mean, I'm, you know, Republican, probably more libertarian than I am Republican.

But I, you know, I, I had no reason to doubt what was going on.

So on March 17th, Tuesday afternoon, I get home.

I must have seen something on the TV.

We'd already had some lockdowns in some of the states in this country.

We'd already had Italy had gone into complete lockdown in Spain.

And so at that point, again, without knowing anything anymore, I called my office manager and I said, hey,

we're not going to, we're going to cancel all surgeries.

We're going to close the doors.

I can't risk getting sick, bringing it home to my kids.

And so let's just have somebody, just have one person in the office.

Let's lock the doors,

have one person there answering the phones.

And so we did that on March 17th.

In other words, you took it very seriously.

I did because I didn't know anything about it.

Me too.

Okay.

I agree.

And

I tell this story all the time.

It wasn't 24, 36 hours that I had done a total 180, a complete 180.

By Thursday morning, March 19th,

I was like, oh my gosh, I got to open the doors back up.

By this time, I had already canceled my surgeries.

I couldn't really just turn around and, you know, do everything.

So,

but by that time, I realized that it was all fake.

And in two days?

In two days.

How?

I got online and started reading articles.

I got online and started reading about viruses and refreshing myself on microbiology

and going back to kind of basic, what I felt was basic science and trying to understand, hey, how do these things work?

How does it, you know, how does an epidemic happen?

How does a pandemic happen?

You know, and then you realize that they changed the definition of pandemic some time before that so that it would apply.

I realized that at the time that they declared, it wasn't the pandemic yet,

but they declared some sort of kind of international emergency in like in the middle of January.

And then the WHO declared their fake P-H-E-I-C

pandemic, okay, the public health emergency of international concern, okay?

And that's what that stands for.

I think they do this all on purpose, okay?

But when you sound it out, it's fake, okay.

And, you know, I realized that there actually were only 44 cases of COVID total in the whole world by the end of January.

And there was one death

due to that.

And the one death was to, I think he was a physician, actually, an ophthalmologist in China at the time.

And they supposedly had isolated this.

I don't know how they isolated it.

They didn't have, you know, they didn't have a test.

They didn't have anything that was available for them to isolate it.

So again, the whole thing just kind of started falling apart.

You knew there was lying at the same time.

I knew there was all kinds of lying going on.

And then I started, so then I started going, okay, well, what can I do about it?

So I knew it was a lie, but what can I do about it?

And the first huge flag to me

was when we were told that as physicians, there's no treatment.

You can't treat this.

Well, last I'd heard COVID is a flu-like illness.

Nausea, malaise, fever, chills,

loss to taste and smell, which happened in the flu anyway.

Nothing was, you know, nothing was pathognemonic, which means nothing was directly attributed only to this one disease.

And so what did we used to to do for the flu?

Treat them symptomatically.

Give them something for their fever, give them something for their flu symptoms, give them something for the sinus infection, give them something for whatever it is that, you know, whatever their problems were, if they're having diarrhea, then you give them something to help with their diarrhea, whatever their symptoms were, you would treat those symptoms.

Well, why weren't we treating those symptoms?

We just weren't.

It was like all of a sudden, there's no treatment.

So can I ask, I mean, and it's especially relevant to you.

So the rest of us are just trying to figure out what the hell's going on.

You're a doctor in practice, clinical practice.

You're seeing patients, you're a surgeon, and you're a licensed physician.

How do you get that guidance?

How do you know that?

Like, who tells you we just don't have treatment for this?

Well, I mean, the media was telling us we don't have treatment for it.

Right.

And Fauci was telling us that there's no treatment for it.

And just wait till you're turning, you know, you turn blue in the face, you can't get up, you're, you know, on death's doorstep and call an ambulance and then we'll treat you and we'll take care of you.

But is there a special doctor website you go to?

I mean, your neighbors are probably like, hey, you're a doctor.

What should I do about this COVID?

That's right.

So people are calling me.

So I'm treating them the way I would have treated any other flu-like illness.

That's what I was doing.

I have a lot of primary care experience.

In addition to my plastic surgery,

I was in the military for three years.

So I took care of light squadrons for three years.

I was a primary care doc for, you know, for pilots in a, you know, in a squadron, in addition to taking care of people in a clinic.

And I moonlighted in emergency rooms at least twice a day or twice a week for 12, 24-hour shifts.

So I did that for eight years.

Okay.

I was going back during my residency.

I would leave for a weekend and I would go back to Meridian, Mississippi, and I would work from 6 p.m.

on a Friday night until 10 a.m.

on a Sunday.

So I'd leave my training on Friday afternoon on the weekend that I was not on call.

And I would go and I would work in an emergency room until 10 a.m.

on Sunday and get on a flight and go back.

So I did that in order to supplement my income, but it also gave me a lot of experience and it gave me, you know, a lot more primary care experience than what we typically would have gotten out of you know another surgery resident or plastic surgery resident so i just fell back on my experience um

and but again i hated microbiology in medical school okay just i despised it didn't like it looking at you know bugs in a microscope and reading and so i always relied on the pathologist to say hey this is your lab test um this is what we grew out of your microbiology sample and then this is what it's sensitive to and so i go okay well you need that antibiotic here you go okay yeah that that's that was my microbiology experience through practice.

Okay.

But I had to go back and review all that stuff.

So I, so I did.

And I just, I got online because it was nothing was online back then when I was in school, but I was just able to get back on there and read articles and read journal articles and get on.

I was pulling things from libraries,

you know, because I have privileges at a hospital or I did then.

I don't anymore, but I did then.

So I had access to their library.

So I would, I would send them, hey, I want to see this article.

Give me the, because I would read the abstract online.

I'll go, I want to read this article.

So they would send me the article and I'd usually get it within 12 to 24 hours.

And so that's what I was doing.

I mean, I did that throughout this whole time.

And,

and I realized that there were a lot of, you know, a lot of discrepancies, let's say,

and a lot of lies that I was getting out of Fauci and Burks and all the people that were, you know, that were talking about it.

Every once in a while, you would hear something, you know, like a little bleep from Scott Atlas or Paul Alexander, who was in the White House at that time, who were kind of like, you know, like

they're on our side, I guess,

where they would say, hey, this, this really isn't what's happening.

So, I mean, I use the analogy a lot with what they told us about COVID, with what I had a lot of experience with at that time, and that was breast cancer.

So

the analogy to me about no treatment for this disease was analogous to somebody coming to me as a plastic surgeon, as breast cancer surgeon, saying, Hey, you have a lady here who's got a small little nodule on her breast that we've either seen on mammogram or we've felt through a physical exam, but we're not going to do anything about that until it's a big fungating wound and it's eroded through her skin.

And now you see and you can feel lymph nodes in her groin and we can do a CT scan and see, you know, that she's got metastases to her brain and to her, you know, to her lungs.

That was the analogy that I was using in explaining this to people when we're telling people that there's no treatment for it.

That's when you put it that way, it's horrifying.

It is horrifying.

It was an and it was an absolute lie because, you know, there is treatment.

We've always treated the flu, okay?

Just because they supposedly found a new strain of the flu doesn't mean that you don't treat it, right?

And so that led me to understanding that, hey,

there's something nefarious going on here.

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But that's a, even I can understand

your reasoning.

Yeah.

Why didn't 90% of doctors say, hey, we're in the treatment business.

That's what we do.

And all of a sudden they're telling us on CNN, we're not allowed to treat this illness.

That's a problem.

Yeah, it's actually more like 99%.

Okay.

And it's a very small percentage of us.

Yeah, I've never been to the doctor again, again and I'm not going because they so disgrace themselves.

And I, and I would very much like to see a lot of doctors stand trial for that, but that'll never happen, of course.

But, but anyway, but why didn't, I mean, that's so

I got, I got kicked off of Facebook.

I got kicked off of Twitter.

Um, I was, you know, posting articles of things that I was reading that at the time I could find.

I've since gone back and without going back through the Wayback Machine, it's not there.

So they've taken things, they've just completely whitewashed a lot of this stuff.

And they were doing that.

They were shutting us down.

All these docs out there, Vladimir Zelenko,

you know, who passed away from a, you know, a pulmonary aniosarcoma, but,

you know, he was one of the first people that I listened to.

He's the one that sent that video to Donald Trump.

He's the one I believe that Donald Trump saw the video of and came out and spoke in favor of hydroxychloroquine.

And then right after that, Fauci, the little gnome, gets up up there and goes, oh, this is just anecdotal and hydroxychloroquine doesn't work.

Do you know that he wrote an article back in 2007, 2008, espousing the benefits of using hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in the treatment of SARS?

Okay.

And SARS-1, which is the disease in the early 2000s,

has a 73% homology with SARS-2, the virus that they claim that is out there right now.

So 73%.

They actually did a study back in 2020.

and they took a number of people.

I want to say it wasn't a very large number.

It might have only been 10 people, but they had 10 people, then they checked their serology, they checked their blood

for antibodies to SARS-1, and they found out that all 10 of those people also had immunity to SARS-2.

Okay.

There was an article that was published out there.

I can't find it anymore.

All right.

But they checked their blood and they checked antibodies and they checked to see whether in a lab test, obviously, okay, they didn't infect these people or find the virus, but they checked it against a blood sample with somebody or a blood sample of the COVID disease and they found that they killed the COVID COVID disease, all 10 of them.

So if you survived SARS-1, okay, and you had antibodies to it, which I'm sure it was circulating widely, okay, and it's a reason why not a lot of people died,

they had immunity to SARS-2, but they didn't want that out there.

And that was the whole objective is they don't want that information out there.

Because if there's treatment, okay, you can't announce for you can't declare a state of emergency and get the emergency use authorization and then launch the COVID vaccine.

I mentioned before that I had three things that I saw that were red flags to me.

The first one was the treatment.

Okay.

The second one was every single country, every single government in the world was doing the exact same thing.

You and I can't agree on whether you want baked potatoes or sweet potatoes for Thanksgiving dinner.

Okay.

But yet you have 208 countries that are going to do the exact same thing when everybody was in lockstep.

Okay.

Absolute everybody is doing the same thing.

they're taking these drugs off the market ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are over the counter in france and they got taken off the market oh yeah um and you know we got the i i was ordering hydroxychloroquine for my office okay and for about six months eight months i couldn't get it it was gone just i couldn't order it i was on back order um it was you know i i i had ordered some because i was having my patients come in and i was treating them in the office with hydroxychloroquine um and i'm not allowed to dispense medications but i was having them come in because they couldn't get it.

I was writing so many prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine in March, late March, early April of 2020, that the pharmacies, the Walgreens pharmacies that I used a lot of in the town that I'm in right now,

they called me and they said, we don't have any more.

We can't get anymore.

I had wiped them out of all their hydroxychloroquine without just writing it for my patients, my family, my friends, and everybody else.

Because I was just like, hey, here's Zelenko's protocol, okay?

Hydroxychloroquine, Zithromax, vitamin C, vitamin D, and zinc.

And I was, and I was just telling everybody, I just, I took exactly what he did and what he was treating, because I think he treated 800 patients by that time.

And he'd only had one patient die.

And that patient had only come to him more than three weeks out from starting to, you know, from getting sick.

None of his patients had died.

None of my patients died.

Everybody that I treated, and I treated people from 2020 until 2022, 2023, okay, and I'm still treating occasional patient

for COVID.

I'm not sure it exists,

but I treat the symptoms and I treat them all the same way.

Not one of my patients died.

Not one of them went to the hospital.

Not one of them got intubated.

Not one of them got any more sick.

As a matter of fact, I had, I can't tell you the number of times that somebody would call me and they would take a dose of ivermectin or take a dose of hydroxychloroquine.

And within hours, they were like, I can breathe.

I can feel better.

Okay.

Is it a placebo?

I don't know.

But my point is, it happened over and over and over again.

And like I said, none of these patients got sick.

I've heard that from other physicians, the small number who prescribed that protocol and had similar results.

What's interesting about what you're saying is that you believe that the treatment, specific treatments for COVID were banned by governments because they were effective.

Yeah, because if they have a treatment, then they can't.

and they can't announce or they can't declare a state of emergency and have an emergency use authorization.

That law requires that there is no treatment for them to then put the third flag to me was the vaccine.

Nothing's going to get back to normal until you put a needle in everybody's arm.

8.4 billion people on this earth need a needle in their arm in order to survive and to be a member of a contributing member of society.

So that was strike number three for me.

I remember

very early in 2020, there was a study out of China that showed that heavy cigarette smokers had a lower mortality rate,

which was like kind of unforgettable.

I mean, what?

This is a respiratory illness, and smokers are doing better than not.

Like, what is that?

And the conclusion that they reached was that nicotine has some kind of prophylactic effect.

I don't, I never followed up.

But I did notice that the European Union almost immediately banned online sales of nicotine pouches.

What?

What is that?

I mean, you don't want to let your brain go there, but like.

Well, again, they'll call it a conspiracy theory, but it's not.

It's an actual conspiracy.

Well, that's a fact.

I mean, that's, I'm just thinking

that, like, what is that?

Right.

And, and it's done on purpose because they want to launch this vaccine.

That's what they're trying to do.

Man, well, that just raises a whole bunch of other questions that I've been mulling over for the past five years.

But anyway, I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your story.

So,

okay, so you're within two days of taking COVID seriously, now you flipped your view based on the evidence as a practicing physician.

You start prescribing the Zlenco regimen to people, it works.

Right.

And then the final red flag, the vaccine.

Right.

What happened?

Well, we started hearing about the vaccine probably, I don't know, late spring, early summer,

you know, May, April.

Well, you know, late April, May-ish of 2020 was when people are like, hey, I think we're going to get a vaccine.

We're going to have something, you know, in short order.

And before I knew a whole bunch about it, I don't even know if I'd heard the term Operation Warp Speed yet.

But, you know, I, I, you know, I mentioned earlier that I don't really like vaccines.

I don't think they help.

I've had arguments with friends, family.

I've had arguments with colleagues that I no longer talk to over vaccines.

I mean, it's a cult and they say that we're a cult.

People that believe in vaccines is a cult.

It's a belief system.

It's not based on science.

It's not based on anything.

I got my hepatitis B vaccine when I started medical school in 1989.

I got one shot.

Within hours, I had shingles.

I mean, a real bad patch of shingles in my left armpit and it hurt like hell.

And I just, but I remember it very distinctly.

I didn't get the second one.

I didn't get the third one.

Nobody was chasing me down.

Okay.

Nobody.

So just because I didn't get it, I wasn't like some pariah somewhere in there chasing me.

But you had a demonstrable vaccine injury.

But I had, well, what I felt was a, you know, vaccine injury.

I mean, I'm just starting medical school.

I don't know, but I have enough common sense

to know and to think that, hey,

you know, the timeliness of this, that I, you know, what happened to me?

Why am I getting a shingles, you know, eruption when I've never had shingles in my past?

And you're a healthy man in your 20s.

And I'm a healthy guy in my 20s.

I'm playing soccer three days a week.

You don't have immune suppression.

That I'm aware of.

I don't have any problems, but I get this huge patch of shingles that hurt like hell.

And, you know, so I just, I refused any other vaccine.

And, but at the time, we're talking, you know, 1989, nobody's chasing me.

Now you see people that are kind of like, you know, you see the military, you know, you see, hear stories.

I just heard a story the other day of

a guy who was in the army, ROTC, did nothing but want to be in the army for his whole life.

And he joined the army and he was kicked out of the army because he was standing there with his CO with paperwork that said, if you don't get this vaccine and we have to fire you or kick you out of the army, you are going to owe all this money back or you can take this needle.

Okay, that's that was exactly the state.

That's what they bow down before me and all of this will be yours.

And, you know, look, and to his credit, he said no.

And he signed the papers and he left.

Funny story, they called him back,

you know, just

a year ago, and they were down on some deployment in Mexico with his unit.

And they called him and said, where are you?

Like they had expected him to be there.

Okay.

We got to go fight the Houthis.

Come on.

So anyway, but because he's so into the army and really liked him, he actually ended up joining again.

But my point being is, what a nice guy.

It's, yeah, I mean, certainly nicer than me.

But, but yeah, but that's the, you know, that, that was the, that, that was the mentality back then where it was just kind of like, okay, you don't want it.

You don't have to have it.

We're just trying to do it for your best interest, you know, but there was no coercion.

There's no, nobody's forcing me to do anything.

You know, flip that around, okay, where, you know, the first person that I see is Bill Gates saying that, well, nothing's going to be back to normal unless you get a needle in your arm.

Well, who the fuck's Bill Gates?

Exactly.

Is he a doctor?

So I, well, I think he slept at a Holiday Internet Express last night.

So.

Well, so that's like kind of the irony here is that we were told,

you know, for several years to trust the science and to listen to people who actually practice medicine.

And you're a man of science and you practice medicine.

You're a surgeon.

So

I would think that your opinion would have more weight than Bill Gates, who's like some autistic rich guy who is really close to Jeffrey Epstein.

What does he have to do with this?

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Well, and not only that, but why not even more credence than, and I'm not saying that I have any more, you know,

I mean, I'm

no more of an expert than anybody else is from the standpoint of being a doctor, okay?

But why are some doctors being shut off and some are not?

Well, if that's you know, look, Anthony Fauci never took care of a patient in his life, okay?

He did his residency at the NIH.

He did his training at the NIH, he's a federal bureaucrat.

And he's a bureaucrat, okay?

Deborah Burke's the the same way.

I mean, she did some stuff in the military, but I think she was all kind of all administrative, never took care of patients.

And so all of a sudden, we're supposed to trust these people that never, that never been on the front lines, never took care of patients, have never seen an illness, are just looking at it from the standpoint of reading a book or reading an article or listening to some podcast or listening to some, you know, going to some meetings or something like that.

Okay.

And all of a sudden, these are, you know, they, you know, kind of like the media proclaimed experts in all this.

I'll tell you, before 2020, I'd been in practice practice exactly 19 years.

Okay.

I graduated from, I graduated, well, so let's count medical school.

I graduated from medical school in 1993.

All right.

And then from 1993 to 2020, I had been to the CDC website to ask them advice on what I needed to do for my practice exactly zero times.

Okay.

Zero.

There is never any reason for anybody, at least my perspective, to go to the CDC.

I'm reading articles.

I'm listening to my colleagues.

I'm talking, you know,

I go to meetings.

Um, I, you know, I, I kind of review cases with some of my friends and some of my colleagues about certain things, but I've never, never gone to the CDC.

So a practicing physician trying to keep current with the science would have no, which you're apparently doing, would have no reason to consult CDC?

No, none.

There's nothing that the CDC is going to put out that is, you know, that is informative to me.

Now, maybe they put out stuff for maybe some pediatricians or family practice docs that maybe they follow or something like that.

I guess.

But,

you know.

Well, they're liars.

I mean, they can't even admit that Lyme was a bioweapon, okay?

Which is very obvious to anyone who pays any attention at all.

And all these,

you know, so they're liars.

So they're just discredited, I would say, right there.

Well,

and you mentioned, boy, you just made me think about something and now I can't think about it.

I can't remember what I was.

Because you're making.

Oh, oh, oh,

the very first, one of the very first articles that was even put out on the CDC website about COVID, okay, about COVID said that of all the people that had supposedly died of COVID, okay, only 6% of them did not have a comorbidity, meaning

that They only 6% of the people that they claimed had died from COVID actually died just with COVID.

Right.

And the rest were in like a motorcycle accident or in stage four pancreatic cars

Right.

Or had two other comorbidities.

The average comorbidity was 2.2.

So in other words, they had two other diseases that were going on at the same time.

Just happened to have advanced COPD and advanced COPD and heart disabilities or diabetes or, you know, or morbid obesity or something along those lines.

And then they died of COVID.

You know, the real answer is they may have died with COVID, okay?

But they probably died from something else.

And you mentioned that.

Well, but I mean, okay, so you're the, you're the science, professional science guy if if you catch someone lying i mean that like invalidates everything else doesn't it it should i mean lying is the one thing that's not allowed in science it's science the the process is designed

to be for honesty right for clarity like we we can't lie about anything is i thought that was the whole point of science uh yeah so the whole point of science is not to lie and the whole point is to never believe that there's not not something that can be improved on it.

Science is never including to yourself.

You can't lie to yourself.

Correct.

Science is never settled.

And,

you know, a number of times where, you know, we go, well, this is settled science.

No, it's not.

Okay.

And I'll tell you, the um,

it's a much bigger picture.

Okay.

Um,

big pharma, I call them big harma, okay?

Um, they own everything, right?

There's a number of journals that have come out, or editors, past chief editors of journals.

And we're not talking just, you know, like some throwaway journals.

We're talking New England Journal of Medicine, Lancet, British Medical Journal, okay, some of the biggest journals in the world.

Those are top three out of the top four that I just named.

Journal of the American Medical Association is the other one.

But chief editors in the last 20 years, at least six of them, have come out and said that at least 50% of the science that's published is fake.

Come on.

Read their quotes.

Marcia Angel is one of them that I can remember her name.

There's a guy by the name of Richard something or other from the British Medical Journal who said the same thing.

I just read an article about it just the other day.

I'll send it to you because it's.

I'm not surprised.

I mean, the depth of corruption is stunning.

And the fact that pretty much nothing's been done about it makes you wonder, you know, how long this can all last.

So back to your story, which I keep distracting you from.

I'm sorry, you're making me me mad.

So it's hard to keep focused.

So the vaccine is announced.

How do you respond to that?

What happens next?

Well, so for me, the vaccine was fine because I was just telling all my patients, all my friends, all my family, just like I was doing from previous vaccines.

So my daughter was only partially vaccinated.

My son was not.

I have only had one vaccine in the last 20 years, and that was a

yellow fever shot so that I can go on a humanitarian trip to go to Ghana.

That was it.

I tried to to bribe the nurse

to not give it to me and squirt it in the garbage, and she wouldn't do it.

But I figured, hey, one shot, maybe, okay, I'll be all right.

I think I am.

Some people argue.

But

when it came out, I was just, you know, I'm just telling everybody, don't, don't take it.

It's not worth it.

You know,

we've been trying to find a vaccine for cancer for 100 years.

We've been trying to find a vaccine for AIDS for the last 40.

And now all of a sudden, we're going to find the vaccine for the common cold virus in less than nine months that's been with us since the dawn of time.

No.

So I was just really happy just to tell everybody, don't, you know, don't take it.

It's not worth it.

It's too risky.

It's experimental.

Just stay away from it.

And I thought we were going to be just fine.

And nobody wanted to give Donald Trump credit for the vaccine prior to the election.

I'm sure you remember that.

I do.

And then as soon as Biden gets elected, you know, they're like, I'll never take that vaccine.

You know, know, Biden and Kamala Harris are like, oh, that's the Trump vaccine.

No way.

I'm not going to touch it.

January 20th of 2020 comes around all of a sudden.

Oh, it's, you know, everybody should get it.

It's the greatest thing, you know, and all that.

And then, and then when they found out that people were not, did not want it.

They started forcing it and they started talking about, well, it's free.

You should get it.

You see, get your free donut,

get your free happy meal,

you know, all of this stuff that was out there trying to just convince people to get it.

California is trying to pass laws so that 13-year-old kids could get it without their parents' permission.

I mean, there was a case in Virginia, I believe, where a 13-year-old kid or 16-year-old kid actually

told the doctor that he didn't want it.

The doctor gave it to him anyway, and they ended up filing a lawsuit.

And I think they lost that lawsuit, actually.

The family won the lawsuit, let's say.

The doctor did lose that lawsuit.

But,

you know, that's, you know, but I was okay.

I'm just telling everybody, don't do it.

Then the mandates happen.

You're not going to be able to go to school without a shot.

You're not going to be able to have a job without a shot.

You're not going to be able to travel without a shot.

So people whose job depended on them traveling, you're not going to be able to stay in the military without getting your COVID shot.

And the worst case to me was people that were mandated to get a potentially dangerous.

Well, I already knew it was dangerous.

I'd already met a number of people that had already been vaccine injured.

There were 700 VARES deaths that were reported.

I knew one of them.

In January 2021, I knew someone who dropped dead from it.

And there were 700 reported deaths in the month of January alone, okay, just in one month.

And that's VARES.

That's self-reporting.

That's self-reporting, correct.

Okay.

Or self-reporting or reported by, you know, a physician.

Actually, physicians are actually required to report

complications.

Okay.

It's a law.

You're required to do that.

They'll get around it because they'll say, well, I didn't really think that it was because of the vaccine.

We don't know.

I mean, we didn't really know, so I didn't report it.

But there were 700 reported cases.

There was a Harvard study done in 2010, 2014, something like that, that said that the VARES reports under the VARES, you know, VARES underreports things by at least 1% to 10%.

Okay.

So that means we could have had in the month of January, we could have had 7,000 deaths or 70,000 deaths at a 1% rate.

And there's over 40,000 that are not over, maybe.

I think we're right at 40,000 now

dead that have been reported since January of 21.

Okay.

So that means we either have 400,000 or 4 million deaths.

Okay.

According, just according to those numbers.

But again, so the mandates come out.

And I said that the last straw for me, not straw, but I mean the last thing was when they were requiring people to get a transplant.

If you want a transplant, you need a kidney transplant in order to survive.

You've got to go get the COVID vaccine.

The official story on 9-11 is a complete lie.

The 9-11 report is a joke.

You have the CIA following two men all over the planet and then eventually even to America, right?

And you don't tell the FBI.

9-11 Commission cover.

So, what did happen?

What did the government know?

What did foreign governments know?

There was a cover-up.

Why?

It's been nearly 25 years, and it's time Americans learned what actually happened.

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So that's where, so, you know, if I were running things, I would find out who made that decision and they'd be punished for it.

They'd be on trial for that.

I mean, that's the cruelest thing I can imagine.

We covered that at the time.

I couldn't believe that's when you sort of lose faith in like your country's systems.

Right.

Like

if that's the result, if someone can actually reach that conclusion and everyone around him is like, oh, no, good plan.

Let's have people die unless they take this vax, which we're supposedly giving because it's life-saving.

We're going to just kill people if they won't obey.

That's the point where you're like, we need a new system because that's evil.

Well,

we live in a system where if something works, everybody wants it.

If something is good, everybody's going to pay for it and everybody's going to want to have it.

Exactly right.

But when you're coercing people and forcing people to do it, there's got to be something wrong.

And I don't know, we talked about this briefly earlier.

I don't know how as a physician, you

can feel comfortable injecting a product into somebody's arm that you don't even know what's in it.

Okay.

The product

product data sheet, the safety data sheet that comes with it, you unfold it.

It's this thing folded up in this box.

Origami.

Okay.

It's like an origami.

And you unfold it and it says intentionally left blank on the front and back.

And so you have doctors that are taking that vial that's in the same box, reconstituting it, and then injecting it into people's arms.

What did you just inject?

What did you just give them?

How do you know that it's safe?

Where's the information?

Where's the data?

Because we're talking 2021, right?

There is no science, no data, nothing has been published, and nothing was going to get published until Aaron Siri filed that FOIA request and that lawsuit, and the government required it to be published over the course of the next nine months.

So none of this information was even available until 2022.

Okay.

And we still don't really know what's in these products.

Okay.

And everybody's talked about the lipid nanoparticle.

Everybody's talking about the, you know, the

product, the mRNA and all of that stuff that's in these injections.

All of the animal studies on the mRNA, all the animals died.

Okay, and one of the last articles that I read on it said, this is not ready for human use use yet.

Okay.

And now,

you know, nine months later, a year later, okay, we're injecting it into

8.4 billion people on this earth when it's not ready for human use.

And yet we've transitioned

to giving it to every human because Anthony Fauci says that the science is settled and that he is Mr.

Science.

He is science itself.

He is science.

Yeah.

So how, okay, so

your perspective is really clear.

It's obvious you feel a moral duty to do the right thing by your patients.

The mandates come down.

Where does that leave you?

Well, so that's when I made a decision to do something.

And my decision at that point was I signed up with the Utah Health Department to become a vaccine clinic.

I've never given vaccines before,

but I signed up, said that I can probably treat this number of people.

They gave me, you know, gave me the form to sign.

We signed it.

I became a vaccine provider for the COVID vaccine.

And instead of giving the COVID vaccine, I gave saline shots to kids and I just gave the cards to their parents.

How hard was it for you to reach that decision, that conclusion that you were willing to do?

I truly thought that this was just a decision between my patients.

They were giving me a product to use that they want me to use, but I chose not to use it because I didn't think that the science supported it.

And my patients were coming to me.

and agreed with my assessment.

And therefore, they,

you know, they, I gave them full informed consent.

And I would show them the sheet, a piece of paper, says intentionally left blank.

Do you want me to inject this into your body?

Okay.

And anybody who's got any common sense is going to say no.

All right.

And that's exactly right.

I saw you come to me as a patient and you say, hey, I have questions about this vaccine.

Should I take it?

Okay.

And I give you my opinion, my professional opinion is all of the animals that they treated mRNA products with lipid nanoparticles died.

They said that it wasn't ready for human use.

Nine months later, saying now it's ready for human use in spite of the fact that we don't have any human studies in between this and we don't know what the studies are that they have done.

And here's your product data sheet that says it's intentionally left blank.

Would you like me to inject this into your arm?

Anybody with common sense is going to say no, thank you.

And so I didn't.

And I truly thought that

I was taking care of my patient.

Full informed consent.

I'm abiding by my Hippocratic oath because like you, we just talked about this.

We already knew that a lot of people had died.

Okay.

You knew somebody personally in January 21 that you know killed over dead.

I didn't know anybody personally at that time.

I knew some people that had been injured from it.

I did not know anybody personally, but I'm looking at the numbers, okay.

I'm 700 people.

I mean, they're the average number of people I think that have been reported, deaths reported for all vaccines combined per month

was

probably in the low double digits, okay, prior to January of 21.

All right, in one month, month, we have 700 that are reported, 19,000 adverse events.

By April, that number was 1,700.

Okay.

And I went back to

dead.

Okay.

Reported to VARES at a 1%

to 10% number.

Okay.

So we're talking about 17,000 or 1.7 million people or 170,000 people.

Sorry.

So 17,000 to 170,000 by April of that, of just three months later.

Can you explain informed consent?

My understanding was informed consent, the idea came out of or was certainly bolstered by the experience of the Nuremberg trials.

Absolutely.

And we learned that the Nazi medical program, which really was one of the worst things about Nazi Germany, was the way physicians treated patients, murdered a lot of them.

But

after that,

the American Medical Association

made a really clear statement about the moral requirement and legal requirement for doctors to tell their patients the potential consequences of the treatment.

Is that informed consent?

That's informed consent.

You have a right to know.

Well, you, I mean, you have a right to know, and I have a right to tell you.

I mean, I have to tell you.

You have an obligation.

I have an obligation to tell you, not just the right.

I have an obligation to tell you: hey, look, this is what I think your treatment should be.

Okay, first of all, you're coming to me with these symptoms, okay?

And I'm telling you what I think that it is.

And then this is what I propose as a treatment.

Okay.

And this treatment has these side effects and has these potential benefits.

That's, that's informed consent.

Okay.

Across the board.

And I've been doing that for years.

I mean, I can't go to surgery without informed consent.

Okay.

I have a five-page informed consent form for my surgeries, whatever surgery it is that I'm doing.

This is the risk.

This is what I, you know, this is what I'm doing.

And this is the reasons why we're doing it.

This is what you agree to doing.

But these are the risks that are involved with that.

Okay.

I do it every single day.

And that's part of medicine.

That's part of what we were taught.

It's part of the legal side of medicine, too.

If I don't do informed consent to my patients and then they have a complication and they sue me and there's no informed consent on the chart, well, I'm screwed as you should be.

And, you know, but why aren't we, why was nobody in this case, nobody's given informed consent?

How do you give informed consent on something that you don't even know what's in it?

I mean, that to me is the, that, one of the number one things.

And I'm just sitting here going.

But where are all the other doctors?

I mean, so you're describing a system that was in place pre-COVID in which informed consent is the very center of the process.

Like, you don't get to cut on somebody ever without this formal process.

Like, here are the potential consequences.

So, but everybody, every doctor knows this, right?

Right.

And it's supposed to be for medications.

It's supposed to be for vaccines.

It's supposed to be for injections.

Any treatment.

It's supposed to be for every treatment, correct.

But every doctor does this.

They're supposed to.

It's required by law.

It is required.

So all of a sudden, you have every doctor participating in this vaccine vaccine program effectively.

Right.

And this is the one treatment that doesn't require informed consent.

And you're the only one who notices this?

What?

I'm not the only one that noticed it.

There were a lot of people that

no, I get it.

But you know what?

This is the problem with vaccines.

Okay.

You don't get informed consent, even with any vaccine.

You go in and talk to your doctor about the DPT vaccine or you go in and talk to him about the Hep B vaccine.

But now, by the way, I talked to you about before Hep B vaccine okay was given to me when I was you know 20 years old or I'm sorry 24 years old when I started medical school okay

because I was an at-risk person you know what it's given now day one of birth okay day one of birth you were an at-risk person because you were dealing with body fluids as a physician correct right and you can be infected but why but now

in the 35 years since it's required for every child born in the United States yes they get one on day one of birth they they get another one a month later, and they get another one six months later.

And that's because it's a captive audience.

That's the only reason.

How many babies are going to be IV drug abusers or go out have unprotected sex

or get a blood transfusion from somebody who's infected?

And by the way,

some of the pediatricians will tell you, well, mom could have had hepatitis B, and therefore you're trying to prevent the baby from getting it.

Well, mom was tested for hepatitis during a pregnancy.

So you would have known if they had hepatitis and hepatitis B.

And so then you would have been able to either treat it or do something about it or maybe prophylax the baby.

Why would pediatricians go along with that?

They,

to put it bluntly, money.

Why are they allowed to practice medicine with those attitudes?

No, I'm serious.

Why doesn't the FBI raid their offices?

If they're giving infants

treatment that the infant doesn't need that has potentially harmful consequences and they're doing it for money, then they're criminals.

You're absolutely right.

And not only are they doing it for money, but they don't even know what it is that they're doing.

Do you know the average, there's two hepatitis B vaccines that are in the United States right now?

Okay, that are in use.

Do you know what the long-term, the follow-up study on those two hepatitis B vaccines is?

No.

Four days for one, five days for the other.

Four-day follow-up on one, five-day follow-up.

Where's the longitudinal study?

They haven't done it.

How can that be?

That's the vaccine industry.

In 1986, when they got liability, okay,

starting in about 1980.

Liability protection.

Liability protection, correct.

Sorry.

When they got liability, full liability protection, okay.

The one that you don't have and that I don't have, but only Albert Bordela.

Nobody else that I know of has this right in the world.

In the world, in any industry, okay.

Nobody,

but the pharmaceutical companies do on all vaccines.

Because it's life-saving, but you can live without vaccines.

You can't live without food.

I've never known of a baby that was born with a vaccine deficiency.

Okay.

Right.

But I'm just saying, like, why don't the food, you know, one of the big ag companies, why doesn't your family farm have full liability protection?

Because, I mean, talk about a life-saving industry,

but they don't have it.

No.

Only the vaccine makers have it.

Correct.

Right.

Okay.

And Ronald Reagan, I think he, there's a quote saying that it was probably one of the one, one of the one laws that he signed that he regretted signing

for what it's worth.

It wasn't a great second term, I would say.

It was not.

No.

Yeah.

Anyway, I don't want to be mean.

I like Ronald Reagan, I guess.

No, I do too.

I'm not, again,

nobody's perfect.

What is that?

What is that?

A lot of these laws were signed by Republican presidents.

Yes.

The PrEP Act was signed.

it does make you want another party actually um whatever but that that's not the scope of this interview doctor um okay so there's no informed consent for any vaccine given is your point

so correct because um there's never there are no long-term studies on any vaccines and uh and and there are actually no placebo-controlled studies on any current vaccines that are on the market right now.

Come on.

one current vaccine that is on the children's uh schedule has ever been studied against a placebo but i i thought that that was a prerequisite it is a prerequisite for science it is a prerequisite for science and it's not been done why

um

in a nutshell they put out something they will do a short-term study on something they will proclaim that it's safe and effective and when they put it on the the childhood vaccine schedule, they will then use that fact that it's on the schedule as an ethical moral foundation that if you don't, because they've declared it safe and effective, they will use that as a moral foundation to say you cannot withhold, you cannot safely or ethically withhold it from

tautological.

It's safe because it's safe.

It's safe because it's safe and it's effective because it's safe and

it's effective effective because it's effective.

Okay.

And you can't keep it from babies and you can't keep it from anybody.

This is why logic needs to be a requirement in school.

Right.

It's safe because we said it's safe.

Therefore, it's so safe by definition, it's safe because we declared it safe that

testing for its safety would be a violation of safety.

Well, it would be a violation of safety.

And

it would be an ethical and moral,

you know,

threshold that we do not want to cover.

Right.

It would would be immoral to find out if it's actually safe because the process of finding out would require us to withhold it from certain people.

Correct.

Which is immoral.

Holy shit.

That is.

Okay.

So I always say of doctors, and again, there's no, probably no group I dislike more in the world than doctors, just because I think they've

really misused their authority and fallen so short.

But I always say to myself, anyway, having known a lot of doctors,

they're all smart.

I mean, it's pretty hard to get into med school.

It's hard to get through residency, all the rest.

But now you're convincing me that a lot of them must not be smart because that's just like basic logic right there.

It is basic logic.

Unfortunately, they've been brainwashed

into believing that they are safe and effective.

And not.

all of them will go back and look at the science.

It takes time.

It takes effort.

It takes an ability.

You end up, you know, you kind of get into this,

you get into this routine in your life where, you know, you trust the people that are coming to you and trust them that, that the studies that they're giving you are appropriate and that they're true and they're not fake and the evidence that they're showing you is,

you know, is the, is the correct evidence.

We already talked about, you know, half of the evidence, at least half of the evidence that is being published.

Look, it's, it's a...

it's a captured industry, okay?

The people that are making the drugs are the ones that study the drugs and then are the ones that publish the results, okay?

The New England Journal of Medicine, the

Journal of the American Medical Association, the British Medical Journal, and the Lancet, all those top four journals from 2020 to 2022,

when you go through a peer review process and you submit your journals to them to be reviewed, to get published, those reviewers

were paid $1.06 billion

in three years.

Okay, by the pharmaceutical industry.

And that's a number that's out there that's just recently been published.

1.06 billion dollars was given to those people that reviewed those journal articles for publication.

Those are the peers in the peer-reviewed study, correct?

The peers are all on the take, they're all on the take, and they are also given research grants.

The average research grant, average research grant was $153,000.

Okay, by pharma.

By pharma.

So, so they do the study,

they design a study, they pay the study investigators,

they

collate the data and pay the people that are reviewing it for publication in the journal that they own,

essentially they own, because the journals get money on, the majority of their money, they get money is on preprints or on reprints.

So the pharmaceutical companies will pay the journal X amount of money for a reprint, and they give those reprints to then give them out to doctors' offices through their pharmaceutical representatives that go out to the offices, go walk into a pre, you know,

into a pediatrician office and hand out six preprints or sorry, reprints.

And they give them these reprints that they've paid for from the pharmaceutical from the journals.

And that's how these journals, the majority of their money comes from these reprints.

It's such a closed system.

It's just astonishing.

And it's astounding.

But you're the criminal here.

I just want to remind you.

I know.

Thank you.

I don't, please don't

just want to reorient your moral universe a little bit.

You, doctor, are the criminal.

So

the mandates come.

You are registered with the state of Utah as a vaccine dispensary.

There's a physician

who provides vaccines.

Your patients come.

You give them the extent you can all the information that you have about these products.

There's not a lot, but you tell them what you know, and then you give them the option because it's their body, their choice,

about whether or not to take the vax.

Where's the, okay, so this is obviously you're serving your patients.

I wish you'd been in my neighborhood at the time.

How do you get in trouble for that?

Well, because I didn't do what they wanted me to do.

Who's they?

The government.

So

you made a very good, you know, astute comment.

I went to the state health department in Utah to become a vaccine provider,

but yet the federal government came after me.

So in January of 2023,

on January 11th, I had 10 or 11 officers show up in my office.

They didn't have their guns drawn like they did with Roger Stone.

What kind of officers?

FBI, HHS,

it was the OIG's office of the HHS and DHS, Department of Homeland Security.

They love having their task forces.

So they established a task force.

Such a buffoons.

So they established a task force sometime in 2022 because they heard about me providing these saline shots and COVID cards without a shot.

So they showed up in January, served it in January 23, and they served a search warrant on me and on my office manager for our phones.

They confiscated our phones.

Like your cell phone?

It took your cell phone?

It took my cell phone.

What if you just say no?

Well, they had a search warrant.

So they had a legal.

Well, how about no?

This is all fake.

They have a search warrant.

Okay.

You and your fake government, back off.

Well, I tried that, and I'll tell you that later.

Okay.

Okay.

I have a search warrant.

Safe and effective search warrant.

Well, and then they tried to get me to open up my phone so that they could access it.

They actually never did get into my phone because they didn't have the password and Apple would.

So what did you say?

I just said, no.

Said, I don't know my password.

I'm not going to give it to you.

What did they say?

They said, well,

they actually said, well, it could go a lot easier on you if you gave us access.

I said, nah, no, thanks.

It's going to be hard enough.

It's going to be hard enough as it is anyway.

But it was funny because I'm sorry, but I just want to linger on this point for one second.

So

you're like a physician practicing medicine.

The FBI shows up with a task force at your office.

What did you think?

Well, my office manager came back to my office all in a panic, you know, completely, you know, white-faced, said the FBI is here.

And I said, what are they here for?

You had no warning.

No warning.

And she said, well, they're here to serve.

They want your phone and my phone.

It's a search warrant.

And I go, oh, okay.

Did they tell you what it's about?

And she's like, no.

I go around to the front and they're sitting there talking to Sandra, who was that, that was Carrie.

And they were sitting there talking to Sandra at the front desk.

And they were trying to get her to.

you know, to spill the beans on stuff.

They were just questioning her.

And

Sandra was just, you know, I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Just, you know, doing, you know, doing the right thing, really, just not answering any questions.

I like Sandra.

Just hearing.

Go, Sandra.

And,

and so anyway, so

they served a search warrant.

They took my phone.

They took Carrie's phone.

And you never gave him the password.

I never gave him the password.

There is a.

They just walk off.

They could just show up and walk off with your phone.

Yeah.

People keep a lot of personal stuff on their phones.

A lot of personal stuff.

I do not.

But I'm just saying.

You don't anymore.

The average.

I don't.

No, I've had my phone taken, so I know.

But

yeah, and just a quick sidebar, if you're involved in any job that's even remotely controversial, do not keep personal stuff on your phone.

Sorry.

Everyone should know that.

Anyway, don't go to any website.

that you wouldn't want your mom to know about.

Just stay clean digitally.

That would be my strong advice.

So,

wow, that's totally crazy.

So how did you respond to these come in?

They take your phones and then I called my attorney.

My attorney showed up.

I mean, he's not a criminal attorney.

He was just my real estate guy, you know.

So, he shows up.

Um, and

doing a title search.

It's kind of like, hey, uh, what's what's wrong with this contract here?

Um, but uh, you know, and he was, he was good.

He just said, Hey, look, Kirk, don't say anything.

Just, you know, and so we gave him my phone.

Uh, and uh, and like I said, they never got into mine.

Um, they do have a program that can kind of get into phones, but it takes

probably three or four years of the operating system in order for them to hack into it.

Um, so my phone was still new enough to where they weren't able to get into it even, you know, up to the, you know, up to January or July of this year.

Um, so

I think we need some way to like blow up your phone the second the FBI start knocking.

Well, there is a way that you can do that now.

Not blow it up.

You can't, no, you heard about that once in, in, in, was it Israel or whatever, where they had the, where, where they actually had something in it where they could actually make the thing catch on fire?

Didn't you?

No, but I want that.

So there was something that they did that they put in in the cell phones.

I don't know if it was Apple phones or if it was the Android versions or what, but they had something in there that they had, um, that they had supposedly put in the phones and then given them to some terrorists or something.

And they were able to kind of make the phone blow up.

You didn't hear about that?

Oh, they're the pagers.

Oh, was it pagers?

Yeah, cell phones.

It was the pagers.

Oh, I thought it was.

Okay, sorry about that.

Yeah.

Blew the genitals off a thousand people simultaneously.

So, no,

that I don't know that there's any like domestically available.

Well, but you can actually erase your phone.

If you lose your phone, you can get, if it's an iPhone, then you can actually get on it and

you say, I lost my phone.

It's permanently lost.

And

you can erase everything on there did you do so i did not because i didn't want to get in trouble for that for tampering with evidence or you know whatever evidence okay but i did not do it so when did you learn what you're going to be charged with

um a week later um i learned about it in a email that i got um from a reputation website that published a article by heavy.com that had seen something on the DOJ that the DOJ had announced the indictment.

I never got served.

I never got paperwork.

I never got subpoena.

I never, nope.

And I, you know, I actually,

none of us did.

So you first heard from some company that like repairs damaged reputations?

Yes.

From like Harvey Weinstein's publicist, basically.

It's like, hey,

now that you're a bad person, you should hire us.

You should hire us to help you.

Serious?

Yeah.

So it was a heavy.com article that was kind of regurgitating what the DOJ had said in their press release.

But no one had ever sent you the press release or informed you.

No.

What country is this?

I think we still live in the United States.

Barely.

Yeah.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

By the way, do you have any patients in the office when the FBI barged in?

We, oh, that's a good question.

On Wednesday, yeah, we would have had patients in the office.

They must have been surprised.

Yeah.

Well, you know, as a plastic surgery business, I typically don't have a lot of patients in there all at once.

So, you know, it's a pretty private kind of, you know, scenario.

We have, you know, one or two patients per hour that kind of come in at, you know, at any given time.

Sometimes we're a lot busier, but on a Wednesday, on our consult days, you know, it's typically pretty slow.

So

I don't remember, but they're probably.

I bet they remember.

I bet they'll never forget it.

It's hilarious.

Sorry.

I know not for you.

So what were you charged with?

So I was charged with fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud because there was more than one of us

and

counterfeiting.

Counterfeiting?

Counterfeiting because I filled out cards

when I didn't, you know, put the COVID vaccine lot number and the date that it was supposedly injected and then signed it.

So this was like, there were a lot of cases like this in the 1850s where like a runaway slave would show up at somebody's house and they'd harbor the slave and then they would get charged.

And there was a huge theological debate about this at the time, of course, culminating in the John Brown murders.

And I mean, there was a lot of debate.

It wasn't just John Brown, but about whether it's ethical to violate an immoral law.

Right.

And that must be a conversation you had, at least with yourself.

Well, the conversation that I had with myself was:

I'm taking care of my patient.

There were no COVID laws, laws.

There were no laws that require me to inject anybody with anything.

And so my discussion with myself was exactly that.

Said, I'm not breaking any laws, so I don't really understand why they're coming after me.

That's one.

And then, two,

there was never a law.

You're right.

Never a law.

And two.

So what law did you violate if there was no law?

Well, they were claiming fraud that they had given me $28,000 worth of product and I had

and I was told to use it in a certain way and I didn't use it in the way that they wanted me to what'd you do with it by the way just throw it away

how how big is a 28,000

item lot of COVID vaccs it was 2270 doses is what I had ordered

Okay, so is that like, could you fit that in a duffel bag?

Yeah, they're small vials.

They're about an inch tall by, you know, three quarters of an inch.

And you just tossed them in the garbage.

Yeah.

Yeah, we just got rid of them.

As a matter of fact, I mean,

Carrie, my office manager, she would order the product.

It would get delivered to the office by UPS or FedEx or whatever.

She would sign for it.

And then she told me, and I didn't know this at the time, but in order to keep anybody from actually using them,

she would take them home immediately.

And then from home, she would just throw them away.

So

we had, there was another employee of mine that supposedly had told the FBI in something in her interview that

she didn't agree with what it was that we were doing and thought that her daughter should have gotten her COVID shot.

And so she went in there and drew one up and gave it to her herself because we weren't going to give it it to her.

And that was a total lie because we never had any of the COVID vaccine in the office.

So how did you, is she the one who ratted you out to the feds?

No, the way they found out about it is a lady was completely anti-COVID, anti-vax, told her office, told her staff, told everybody that she worked with her PR, her

HR department, everybody,

that she would never get the vax.

She'd rather quit, get fired, whatever.

And then one day she shows up with a card from my office.

And so then they called the Utah Health Department and said.

Her office did.

Yeah.

What kind of office was it?

I think it was a utility office in California.

I'm not positive about that.

And, you know, so they called the Utah Health Department and the Utah Health Department then, I guess, in turn, called the FBI.

And we found this out during the trial

that the first thing that the Utah Health Department was supposed to do upon hearing that somebody was not using their COVID vaccines properly was they were supposed to shut us down.

And if they weren't going to shut us down, then they should have at least done a site review on or call you and say, hey, is it true that you're not dispensing the vaccine?

But they didn't do anything.

They got a hold of the FBI right away.

And so then that was, again, part of the whole scheme on their part.

So they're claiming I had a scheme.

Yeah.

And my scheme was to save, I didn't want to murder or maim or maim my patients.

Okay.

That was my scheme.

Good scheme.

Their scheme was to try to catch me.

And then, and that's what they did.

They ran a sting operation on me had two police officers come in and get a COVID card both of them without a shot

They had to you know, so did you consult with them?

No, I did not I didn't see I hardly saw

none of these patients came in to get a COVID vaccine.

They all knew what we were doing It was a word of mouth thing.

I never kept any patient from getting a vaccine if they wanted it.

Okay.

And I never gave a vaccine to somebody who didn't want it.

But everybody that was coming to me was coming to me because I was giving fake cards.

They knew it.

They wanted it.

I wasn't, I didn't have to talk to them.

They'd done all their own research.

If they had any questions, they would ask me.

And I wish I'd known.

I had a friend who printed a bunch of fake vax cards.

I was proud to carry a fake vax card around the world into various countries.

And you did an interview with Ed Doubt about that in January of 23, January, February of 23, I think it was, on your Fox Nation show.

Yeah, I felt guilty about, I only, I actually only showed it one time in one country, but I felt guilty.

I felt like I should be man enough to be like, I'm not getting that.

And,

and just, but I,

but you can't, you know, you have the whole system that's out against you.

I know.

I just felt like a

wuss for doing that.

And I felt like a real man would just stand up.

I can't imagine my father like having a fake vax card

to buzz off, but I did.

Anyway, but I just, God bless everyone who provided fake fax cards.

And I just want to thank you to your face for doing that.

It's what a wonderful service and a truly ethical thing to do.

But

you're facing life in prison for doing it.

So you get indicted.

When do you find out that the penalty is life?

Well, so originally the penalty was

a total of 15 years max if I had been convicted on all charges.

They were also accusing me of making money.

And they, I, um, I wasn't doing anything.

So initially in the the summer of 21, um, I was just giving cards out.

And, you know, anybody who wanted them, it's giving them out.

If they came in with a kid, then I would do a saline shot on their kid.

Um, eventually, that kind of changed, the routine changed a little bit where some people were getting nervous.

Hey, you're just doing this so freely, you're going to get caught, and somebody's going to say that you did something wrong or whatever, and you, you know, you run the risk.

And again, I, I still fell back on

what am I doing wrong?

I'm taking care of my patients.

This is what they want.

They're coming in.

They have full informed consent, you know, and everything else.

There's no COVID law.

And there's no COVID law, right?

But eventually we

got convinced that, you know, look, we got to start screening people.

And so that's where Chris comes in, my other co-defendant.

And so she starts screening people.

And in addition to that, we had people that were saying, hey, you know, Kirk or Dr.

Moore, you know, you're not taking any payment on this.

What can we do to help,

you know, help you?

And and I said well look there's this organization that is trying to change the laws here in the state of Utah to prevent this from ever happening again

and I'd been to their meetings and I was kind of doing what I could to help I was testifying in Congress or at our state you know state house and senate committee hearings to try to get laws passed to take away the right of our health department and our county council to force mandates indefinitely on anybody

and so we had passed some laws

And so I knew what this organization was doing.

And so I said, Look, if you have, if you want to do something, please donate to this organization.

And they said, well, how much?

I said, well, typically people are charging their insurance companies about 50 bucks for a shot.

So just donate $50

to this organization.

And I would have them put a little orange.

I don't know where I came up with an orange.

I have them put an orange in their Zell or Venmo payment or whatever

so that HIA, who was the organization, would know what it was.

And

so we did that.

And the government claimed that I did that for everybody.

So all 1,937 patients that got listed to the Utah State

Immunization Information System uses

were claiming that those were people that had come to my office that we had put their name on the list and said that they got a COVID shot.

So they were saying that out of that, at $50 a piece, it's like $96,000 plus the $28,000 that they gave me in product was $128,000 worth of $124,000.

The money you said went to charity, it didn't go to you.

Correct.

I didn't get a dime.

Okay.

But they were trying to claim that I was making money somehow.

Okay.

And they did.

And they, you know, they did that.

But then they had to take that charge away.

Okay.

So here's a funny story.

The second police officer that came in to do the Sting operation on me to confirm what had happened to his quote-unquote girlfriend.

Okay.

He got busted for selling bath salts.

So he was an FBI agent that was stealing bath salts from a confiscated raid and then taking some of it and then turning around and selling it.

No way.

He's a drug dealer.

He's a drug dealer.

Okay.

So they had an FBI agent?

He's an FBI agent.

Yeah.

I'm not surprised, actually.

I mean, you're an FBI.

I couldn't have a lower opinion of FBI agents in general, not all, but most.

But if they tell you, okay, we're going to do a sting operation on a physician who's decided as a practicing medical doctor that he doesn't want to give the COVID vaccine.

Your job is to bust him.

If you're going along with that, it's voluntary.

You don't have to do it if you don't want.

You're a low person.

Like, you're a disgusting person.

Like, check yourself.

What am I?

Is this why I got into the FBI to bust doctors for not prescribing an untested vaccine?

Yeah, I mean, they don't look at it that way.

They

don't.

I mean, the whole government scenario, everything that they're again, this is not about justice.

Okay.

It's not about the truth.

Okay.

It's just about winning.

And it's about,

and when it came to me, in my case, it came to be about proving a point.

Okay.

They wanted to prove that to other doctors, this is what happens to you.

Okay.

When you mess with us, when you fuck with us and everything else, this is what's going to happen to you.

It didn't matter whether it was the right thing.

It's displayed.

It didn't matter.

It didn't matter that I had not hurt any patient.

It didn't matter that I was, that I'm a plastic surgeon doing house calls and I'm saving people's lives.

Okay.

And that I literally take people out of the hospital, get them off the remdesivir that they were in, give them high-dose steroids, give them ivermectin and everything else.

And now they are still alive and not six feet under.

Okay.

And I did that on two or three occasions.

And I didn't charge a dime to anybody for doing this.

That doesn't matter to them.

Okay.

It, what mattered to them was

You didn't do what we told you to do.

And therefore, we are going to hold your feet to the fire and we are going to prove and we're going to make it hurt so much to you.

And we're going to show the world that if they ever were to try this, that this is what's going to happen.

Sadomasochism.

They're in the dominant position.

They've got the whip end and they want you to know it.

No.

And they ruin you financially.

They spend all this money.

They make you spend.

I had to hire an attorney for my business.

Okay.

For my business.

Does my business speak?

Okay.

Do they get up?

Can I take my business and put my business on the stand and ask them why my business did this?

Okay.

But no, I had to hire an attorney and spend a buttload of freaking money to pay my attorney to just sit there in trial.

Okay.

That's our system.

What do you think it costs you?

If I add up the bills, it was somewhere between $700 and $800,000.

which is not as expensive as what some other cases are, but I lost a lot lot of money out of my business too.

I mean, just think about the time and effort and the louch of, you know, the loss of

focus.

I mean, I used to just work, right?

I mean, I just, I'd go to the office, I'd take care of my patients, I'd advertise, I'd market, I would, you know, be there for them and do everything.

I didn't have anything else.

I didn't have all this extraneous stuff that I'm thinking about.

But now I'm the only thing I'm thinking about is how do I keep myself out of jail, how do I provide for my family.

So, yeah.

Oh, so you asked me before, so, and we got off subject.

So when that officer got caught, all the data and evidence and everything that they had in the original indictment had to be removed.

So what they did is...

Because it turns out the FBI was a drug dealer.

Yes, the FBI was a drug dealer.

So they had to take all that out.

But then what they did was,

is they added another charge of destruction of government property and evidence tampering, which added another 20 years to my sentence.

20 years?

20 years.

Evidence tampering.

What was was the government property that you destroyed the vaccine

they claimed that even though they gave me a product so the ultimate and indian givers okay um they gave me a product and that it was sitting in my freezer that they had given to me um and that until i injected it into a patient's arm that they own that product because they gave it to me because they paid for it and they gave it to me as the custodian, I guess.

They're going to put you in prison for 20 years for that uh they were going to put me in jail for yeah they if i destroyed that property correct they were going to that was an additional 20 years of property no of

what kind of prosecutor and you're in your late 50s by this point uh yeah i turned 60 this year right and what was the total sentence you were facing 35 years

so that puts you in prison until 95 until you're dead right right so what kind of so at some point a prosecutor had to decide on what the maximum penalty would be right that's a judgment called subjective.

Well, no, the maximum penalty is the judge.

So if I'd have been sentenced, then

of course the judge determines that.

But the prosecutor decides which charges he's going to bring.

Right.

And he knows what penalty is attached to those charges.

Correct.

So they hated me.

But like they looked at me with such disdain.

Please name these prosecutors and tell us who they were.

So Todd Boughton.

Todd Boughton.

Yeah, B-O-U-T-O-N.

B-O-U-T-O-N.

Who is Todd Boughton?

So Todd Boughton came from California in the prosecutor's office in California.

He'd only been in, he's only been in Utah.

Well, at the time that he had me under indictment, it had only been there about a year, I think.

He's a federal prosecutor.

He's a federal prosecutor.

So he was in the U.S.

Attorney's Office.

U.S.

Attorney's Office in Salt Lake City.

Yes.

Todd Boughton.

How old is Todd Boughton-ish?

50, 48.

And Todd Boughton was, you think, one of of the prime movers behind this?

He was the lead prosecutor on this case.

Lead prosecutor.

So I don't know if it got assigned to him or if he chose it or if he, but he hated me.

I mean, he looked at me with such distinction.

Why?

I don't know.

Todd Boughton, does he still work at the Department of Justice?

He does.

How can Todd Boughton still have a job at the DOJ?

I would think draining the swamp would require firing Todd Boughton day one, but that's just my view.

Okay.

and I'm again stepping in your story.

So, okay, there was Todd Boughton as lead prosecutor.

Who else?

So, Jacob Strain was his boss or Jacob Strain, yeah.

So, J-A-C-O-B, um, and then S-T-R-A-I-N.

Uh-huh.

Um, and he was

the senior prosecutor in that, but he was taking a backseat to Todd Boughton.

Todd Boughton was leading the, you know, leading the charge.

Um, and Jacob Strain has been in that office in Salt Lake for a long time.

Is he still there?

Uh, he's still there as well.

Oh, yes, he's still there.

How?

um

this was just one of many cases that they had of this of this kind well they i don't know if you heard about that one case that they had where they there were people that were selling uh covet cards on ebay there was a guy in utah of course there was a guy in utah and a guy in new york and between the two of them they sold 140 000 cards yes um on ebay that they had just printed they had gone to kinkos i don't know if kinko's still exists but my point you know they went to a printing company where they printed them at home made covet cards stamped them and

were selling them for 10 bucks a piece.

These guys made $1.4 million.

God bless them.

And they got convicted.

They got a year in jail and a $40,000 fine.

That was their conviction.

They took a plea deal.

Did they actually do the time?

I don't know.

I think so.

Okay.

But a year in jail and $40,000 fine.

And then the same prosecutor, so Todd Boughton, same guy, okay, took those guys and he got that plea deal.

And he's taking me to trial and trying to put me in jail for 35 years.

And you're a physician.

And I made no money.

Okay.

I made no money.

I didn't charge anybody anything.

I made no money.

I asked people to donate to an organization that was helping pass laws in the state of Utah that I, you know, that we supported as an organization and everything else.

And yet he, you know, they never offered me a plea ever.

I would not have taken one if they had they, but I, but they never even cared to.

They give pleas to child monsters all the time.

Yes.

All the time.

All the time.

Yeah.

Let's cut it down to a decent exposure and we're fine.

Had you ever been in trouble with the law?

So I had a

case four or five years ago where I got accused of insurance fraud, of filing a false insurance claim.

And that I had three of my

employees turn me in, even though it wasn't true.

But I had to take a plea deal on on that because i had three people against me for you know for me for one so i took a misdemeanor you know charge and did you lose your medical license i had it suspended for

well on paper suspended for two years but they but it was um

uh but so they suspended but gave it back to me under probation and so i did an 18 month probation never got in trouble i've never been in trouble prior to that at all So I got accused of, I had a trailer that was stolen from my office parking lot.

And the trailer had a whole bunch of stuff in it, some of which I knew, some of which I didn't.

I had just moved into my office and we were moving stuff in, moving stuff out.

I came from an office that was 5,800 square feet to an office that was just under four.

So we had a lot of stuff that just didn't fit.

And so I had my sister out who's kind of helping with interior design.

And so we're moving stuff in and out.

And I didn't know what was in the trailer, what was not, and everything else.

And so I put a lot of things on the insurance claim.

And and some of which I took off later, some of which I didn't.

But my, my staff that I had fired accused me of, you know, fraudulently making claims on my insurance.

And I didn't.

If I did, it was a mistake because I didn't know, you know, I didn't really, I truly didn't know what was on there.

I do know that there were at least,

you know, there was a couple of boxes of medical charts on there.

And there was a whole bunch of medical supplies and, you know, and those kinds of things.

So,

but

so it wasn't an insurance claim related to your medical practice, no, no, it had nothing to do with that.

Oh, so okay,

um,

so what happened next?

You're facing life in prison for this, they they do not offer you a plea deal, you wouldn't have taken it anyway, you said,

but how long did this drag out and how did it end?

So, um, we

I went to jail twice.

You went to jail?

I went to jail twice.

Why?

Remember at the beginning when you said, uh, how do do you get a tattoo

join a gang no tattoos no gang um but uh remember when you said why did you give them your phone because yeah the government you're not really they don't you know it's it's your government um well i challenged the jurisdiction of my government and they didn't like that challenge so they threw me in jail um they threw you in like actual jail yep 12 days come on now yeah

what jail uh i was at the logan uh county jail logan uh in the Sheriff's Department, whatever.

Were you the only surgeon in the cell block?

Oh, yeah.

I think it was the only, I was the only white collar there, only white collar guy there at all.

Everybody else was drug addicts, and there were some murderers and rapists.

You spent 12 days in jail.

I spent 12 days in jail that time, yes.

Why?

Well, because I challenged their jurisdiction.

I filed a motion that said that they don't have jurisdiction over me.

And, you know, trying to go, some people claim it's like the sovereign citizen or state national route or, you know, whatever.

Basically, I was just saying, you know, you guys are overstepping your bounds here.

You don't have the authority to do that.

And you don't have the authority to do this.

And they didn't like that.

So the judge says, I don't like you and I don't like what it is that you're doing.

And he threw me in jail.

Who's the judge?

Judge Bennett.

Jared Bennett?

That is totally bonkers.

What does your family say?

Well,

they were like, Dad, what can you do to get out of jail?

So,

in order to do that, I had to fire my attorneys and everything else and go pro se,

which, you know, means defending yourself.

And then,

and so then I had to hire an attorney to then file a motion to say that I had, I reneged on what it was that I said before.

I don't believe in that.

It was, you know, it was a mistake on my part.

So, please let me out of jail so I can take care of my family.

And so, they did.

They put me on an ankle monitor for 90 days.

What?

And I was on house arrest and I could go from my office to.

Is this true?

This is true.

It's true.

Absolutely.

All of it is.

I have pictures.

I was even accused of being a...

of being a consider

of

continuing my conspiracy theory because

I was told that I said that my ankle monitor probably had a microphone and transmitter in it, and I was covering it with a towel so people couldn't listen.

Well, your iPhone definitely does.

So, like, why is it crazy to think your ankle monitor does?

Well, I don't think I said that, but even if I did, I mean, the point is that's true.

They brought that up in court to try to keep me in jail because you're not allowed to have conspiracy theories.

You're allowed to think whatever the fuck you want in this country, by the way.

I'll remind you, not anymore.

So, did you ever?

Because I'm a few years younger than you, we're basically the same generation and

went to similar high schools in the similar region.

So I get, I know what your world view, I mean, I know the world that you grew up in.

Did you ever think like, I'm just not going to participate.

I'm not going to do this.

Like, I'm armed and come and get me, bitch.

Well, by this time, well, no, actually, by that, yeah.

Did I think about it?

Well, you could see how you could become Randy Weaver really quickly.

Yes.

Did I think about that?

The absolute question.

The absolute thing is yes.

Of course.

So I'm literally thinking, okay, how do I board out my windows?

Yeah.

Okay.

How do I put little holes in it?

You know, 100%.

You're absolutely right that I think about it.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting that anyone do that.

Like they murdered Randy Weaver's wife and child and dog.

Like you don't win going branch Davidian, but

ever.

However, I certainly understand the impulse.

Right.

Especially if you grew up in a free country.

You're like, well, you can't do this.

Right.

What was, what was 12 days days in jail like?

Well, the first four days I was in.

So they have a rule when you get into jail at Logan, the Logan County Jail there that you have to do 48 hours.

Your first 48 hours is in solitary confinement because they want to make sure that you're not tweaking on drugs and that you're not going to freak out.

And so before you go to your, you know, regular cell block that tweaking on drugs, you're a surgeon.

Like, what the heck?

I get, I get, I get, I get, I didn't get any special treatment there either one way or the other.

Okay.

Um, but the rule also said that it's 48 hours.

They did this to me on the Friday afternoon before Memorial Day weekend.

So my 48 hours didn't start clicking until Tuesday morning at seven o'clock.

So I was in solitary confinement Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, and Monday night.

Okay.

I got out of my cell for one hour a day.

And because I was in this, you know, this, this whatever state, I can't remember what they called called it, what the state, you know, what they do for that, that solitary confinement state for that 48 hours, but it doesn't start till then.

So then they gave me a benefit is that on Tuesday afternoon at like four o'clock, they said, okay, well, you know, we'll move you to your cell block.

And so then they moved me from there

to

kind of a ward, a pod with a bunch of bunk beds and 26 or 27 other, you know,

cellmates in there, which was obviously a lot better because you can have some communication and talk to people.

And I had phone access and, you know, everything else.

But what were those days in solitary like?

Boring.

You know, you got out of, they would bring you out of your cell to eat, literally for 20 minutes, and then they send you back in.

And then they would combine your lunch or your dinner on alternating days with your one hour of time where you could just kind of walk around in the cell block.

How was some food?

Books.

Food was,

I don't know, jail food.

Just

plastic trays with a plastic fork.

That, you know, if you put too much on your plastic fork, it would collapse because it couldn't be stiff enough for you to use it as a weapon.

You know, it was just

green beans, corn,

hot dogs.

I think there were a couple of times where we had a burger,

but it was

so that was my first time in jail.

My second time in jail was I got the marshal service showed up.

So we had,

so I got my ankle monitor off at the end of the summer of 2022.

Okay.

No, sorry, send it.

Ankle monitor.

And this is so crazy.

I just want to, like, what about the politicians in your state?

The supposedly.

Nobody said a fucking word.

Nobody said a word at that time.

It's the most shameful period in American history by far.

And so I.

By the way, if those people ever take power again, this will be every day.

Those people are really dangerous.

Yeah.

So I got my ankle monitor off like end of August, beginning of September of 2023.

So now I'm kind of like, last thing I want to do is kind of rock the boat and do anything.

Ankle monitor, do you have to to shower with it and keep it on it's on it's just they strap this thing on and if you cut it off it sends like some sort of you know it's got a really loud beep and

siren or something in it supposed to get dog collar like you're an animal right right they put a tag in your ear not no that not yet they didn't they didn't get to that point yet um

so

Following that,

we had a motion to, we filed a motion to dismiss my case based upon the Chevron Doctrine and how the CDC was overstepping their bounds.

The judge denied it.

We have no legislative authority.

We have no legislative authority, none.

There's no law.

There's no law.

There's no legislative authority

by the Pharisees.

But the judge didn't grant our motion to dismiss.

They had a motion simultaneously to preclude me from using a necessity defense.

And basically, a necessity defense is that what the treatment is that I was doing was less dangerous than the treatment that was the alternative.

Correct.

And which I truly believed was true.

The judge granted them.

Why else would you do it?

The judge granted them that motion, which then meant that I couldn't bring in any patients that came to me and talked to them about the reasons why.

Wait, they can tell you what defense you can offer?

That's another really good question, Tucker.

How do they get to decide what your defense is?

What is going on?

Yeah.

I mean, that's exactly my,

I had almost the same exact

emotion was emotion, which was I laughed and giggled and was like, I, I thought I lived in the United States and I'm allowed to present any defense that I want to.

But no, in this case, a necessity defense was not permitted.

So that means I couldn't bring any vaccine injured patients in to talk about

who decides the judge decided

decided this.

So I had a magistrate judge, and he was, that was Judge Bennett who threw me in jail the first time.

Okay.

And then we had this motion to dismiss.

So any dispositive motions go to your actual district judge.

Okay.

So the district judge that heard my case

is, you know, is different than the magistrate judge.

And then his name is Howard Nielsen.

And so

Judge Nielsen heard my motion to dismiss and heard their motion for necessity.

He denied my motion to dismiss and he upheld their motion for the necessity defense.

So that means I could not bring in any patients that wanted the treatment that they got and have them tell their story why they came to me.

I could not present any data or evidence in support of the reasons why I treated people the way I did.

I couldn't bring in any experts to also support all that.

So I couldn't bring in the Peter McCulloughs and the the Mary Tally Bowden's and, you know, Pierre Corey's and anybody else in there to help me with my case.

And, you know,

and, you know, a real good friend of mine,

Jim Thorpe, wouldn't, you know, none of these people.

I couldn't bring anybody in as an expert witness on my behalf.

And then I couldn't bring in any patients that had been vaccine injured.

So all the people that I know that were vaccine injured to kind of help prove my case.

So I was precluded from doing any of that.

So that was on the 19th of October.

So So they just, just to restate, they charge you with these crimes.

They threaten you with life in prison.

They throw you in jail for 12 days to start.

And then they decide what your defense can be.

Correct.

That's our system now.

Right.

So

the day before we had trial,

sorry, the day before we had the hearing.

So on October 18th, I sent a text message to two of my co-defendants because I knew that they were struggling with their attorneys.

They weren't, you know, communication wasn't the greatest and they didn't know about the hearing.

And so I texted them and said, hey, we have a hearing tomorrow.

It's our motion to dismiss their motion for the necessity defense.

I think you should be there with your attorneys.

Rah, rah, let's go.

Our case can go away, you know, whatever.

Okay.

That's it.

All right.

We go to the hearing.

They are at the hearing.

I told you, you know, we lost both motions, essentially.

The day after Donald Trump was elected, I had two marshals show up in my office and perp walked me out of my office for communicating with my co-defendants about the case.

How did they know?

One of the people that I was communicating with turned me in.

So my ex-office manager gave them a copy of the text messages.

Why did she do that?

Because she wanted out of the case.

So she took a plea deal.

And she took a plea deal for.

Well, she's going to have to live with that.

She is going to have to live with that.

She's ultimately not a very nice person.

And so I don't know that it's really going to give her that much heartache.

I hope it does.

So what happened?

The U.S.

Marshals show up.

So the U.S.

Marshals show up, put me in chains, ankle chains.

Actually?

Actually, ankle chains and cuffs behind my back with chains connected between my ankles and feet because that was such a flight risk.

Took me to jail.

jail and i spent 30

i spent 22 days in jail that time um

are you serious

same jail no different jail this time so i had to learn a whole new routine what was your family saying at this point well um

what are they saying um you know they're they're struggling obviously um

it's uh you know i'm the breadwinner of the family you know i'm you know, I'm not making any money.

And, you know, my fiancé now is kind of trying to keep things afloat.

My parents are doing whatever they can to kind of communicate with my attorneys and do anything.

And you're like 59 years old at this point?

59 years old.

And, you know, like I said, I'm barely.

surviving in my practice anyway.

And with a federal indictment hanging over you, nobody wants to really have a lot to do with you.

So it, it's, you know, it's, it's, it was hard.

It's really hard.

Had to sell.

I owned a house,

a summer house with a really good friend of mine and had to sell out my partnership on it

that I'd owned for 17 years.

And it was, you know, it was a getaway for us.

We loved it.

It was a place up in Bear Lake.

And,

you know, I had to sell out from that.

But I, you know, the money that I got from that went, it was all gone in like three weeks.

Um, to lawyers, all to lawyers or to pay off my business expenses.

I mean, I, you know, I was in jail for, you know, 22 days.

I didn't get any income, none.

Um, I'm not able to advertise.

So I can't, you know, I, you know, all my money, all my discretionary money was going towards my attorneys or fees or this or, you know, running my business or, you know, anything.

Um,

and uh, you know, so it was, um,

you know, it was those 22 days were really hard.

Um, I got got out.

So

here's more, here's more of an example of them coming after me.

Okay.

I told you that in May of 2023, I filed that motion kind of as a state national sovereign guy.

You know, government doesn't have jurisdiction over me.

I filed the same motion as

Carrie did.

The exact same motion.

We just changed the name on the motion.

Both of us filed it.

They put me in jail for 12 days.

They let her go home.

Carrie would be the woman who ratted you out.

Yes.

Okay.

And then later,

when I went to jail the second time, and it was Carrie and Chris and myself in this three-way text, okay.

And Carrie was the one that turned it in.

So obviously she's not going to go to jail, but they arrested Chris too.

Okay.

And two days later, we had a hearing in terms of the disposition.

Are we going to let them go again or, you know, or are we going to keep them in jail?

Well, they let her go and they kept me in jail for the exact same violation.

But because I'd had that previous violation, okay, I'm now considered a flight risk and a danger to the community.

And so now I need to.

Danger to the community.

Danger to the community.

The prosecutor said it in the hearing.

Which prosecutor?

Todd Boughton.

Todd Boughton, who is still,

I'm really going to try to make a note to myself to just say his name as often as I can until he loses his job and doesn't get hired.

at a big white shoe law firm and rewarded for this, Todd Boughton.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I was a danger to the community, and I'm a flight risk.

In spite of the fact that, you know, I've got no property anywhere else.

The only property I have is in my town.

I have my kids going to school there.

You know, my mom lives with me part of the time.

You know, everything else.

There's no, you know, a flight risk for what?

Also, who cares?

I don't have my passport.

Who cares?

You didn't do anything wrong.

We got 50 million illegals in the country.

Drug cartels control huge parts of the southwestern United States.

Like, this is so crazy.

I can't even believe this is real.

Right.

And I look, and I'm not the only one.

If you fled the United States, the only loser would be the United States.

We need people like, no, I'm serious.

Like, I

flight risk?

Flight risk and a danger to the community.

What am I going to do to the community, right?

So you think Todd Bowton still works at the U.S.

Attorney's Office in as far as I know.

I mean, I, you know, but yes.

I do think your senators should know that.

I think if Senator Lee knew that.

Well, he does know that.

He was at my, so

he was at my meeting that I had with, you know, Attorney General Bondi, you know, a few weeks ago.

So he knows.

Okay, well, I think they should fire Todd Bowton immediately because this is such an abusive power, just crushing a man.

No one comes to your aid.

Right.

What was the 22 days in jail?

So this time was actually a little bit harder.

The last time I told you, remember I had like four days in solitary and then I had the other eight days or so kind of in a ward where you're out and you can talk to people.

This time I was in, um, I was in the Salt Lake County jail system, same sheriff's department, but they just had different rules.

And all federal employees, all federal inmates

in that jail, um, are, can never get below medium security.

Medium security is um four hours a day out of your cell, um, and the rest is in your your cell um

and you can't go outside um

you you know you get books delivered once a month um

you get commissary that you know that you can that you can order online or you know uh whatever you have a tablet that you have access to during your four hours of out time

um but they had some sort of an electric but electric problem in the grid with control of the cells, doors, and everything else that they had cut our time down to two hours a day.

So I was in my cell 22 out of 24 hours

for those full 22 days.

In a cell with like...

In a cell, an 8x10 cell, 7x10 cell.

Yeah.

22 out of 24 hours.

What did that do to you?

Two things, I think.

The first thing that it did to me is it

built up my resilience that I wasn't going to let them mess with me anymore.

Good.

You know, that it just didn't matter what they're going to do to me, that

I'm going to fight back.

And then the second thing that it did is it made me realize how much of a scam the fucking jail system is.

Because my first cellmate in there was an illegal,

nice kid, didn't speak much English.

He was only my cell for 24 hours.

But that poor guy

had supposedly had two DUIs that he didn't even know about.

They never pulled him over for driving.

They just issued a DUI warrant out for him.

He didn't even know that those DUI warrants were out for him.

The third time, he did get pulled over for a DUI.

And for some reason, they felt like he was a maximum security guy.

They put him in maximum security where he was in lockdown for two and a half months.

Okay.

A guy who's 23 years old who made some mistakes driving a car once, don't even know about his first two cases.

They're not even cases that they, he never got pulled over.

They just, somebody said, hey, he's been drinking and that's the car that he was driving.

Um, but they put him,

how is that guy a max security risk?

Okay,

it's a scam.

These jails go around and all they do, it's a per capita count.

Okay.

And morning and night, they want to know how many people are in each ward and in each, you know, medium, medium moderate i mean you know minimal security medium security and high security or max security whatever and they get more money that's all it is it's just a money scam and a money grubbing operation that's all it is the day that i got released there were 17 people in my time block and i think i want to say there were about two hour time blocks for get release because they get they let you get out of your jail they take you to this desk you sign your forms you get your clothes you get the stuff that they arrested you with and all of that stuff it takes about two hours to to process a certain number of people.

There were 17 of us total, okay, in that two-hour time block.

13 out of 17 of those had nowhere to go.

Nowhere.

No family, no friends, nothing.

They got a bus pass to take them down to wherever it is they want to, a single one, like a one-way bus pass.

Where do you think those guys are going to go?

Right back to where they were before, you know, right back to what it was.

And in 48 hours, they're going to be right back where they are.

There was no attempt at all to help these people to do anything.

Um,

nothing.

Okay.

And that's why I'm saying you just realize that it's just such a scam for these people.

Just that they want the recidivism.

And they, if the recidivism rate drops below 90%,

then they're hurting.

So they want to do whatever it is that they can to kind of make sure that those people.

This country's too big.

You can't treat people as human beings.

The government's too big.

It's all unsustainable.

It's like the scale is just not.

You either have to go full 1984 and just facial recognition to go to to the bathroom.

Like you have to have like totalitarian control, or

you know, you wind up with this where it's just people get crushed in the gears.

And,

no, it,

wow, this is a really

racing story.

So, you get out of jail the second time.

Again, I just want to remind anyone who's made it this far in the conversation, your crime was not prescribing the COVID vaccine, not giving, administering the COVID vaccs.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

then what happens then your trial is still not so yeah so we get out of jail um or i get out of jail um and now we're you know planning on going to trial i mean there's a whole other story behind it but it's you know it's kind of long um

and we finally are scheduled for trial to go in july um

they do that superseding indictment this july So July, just last month.

Yeah.

Yeah, like six weeks ago.

And

they did that superseding indictment where they had to take out that other agent's, you know, because he turned out to be a drug dealer.

But you're the criminal.

Criminal.

Right.

Okay.

So

they do the superseding indictment, add the 20 years to the evidence tampering charge.

Todd Boughton is the one who added 20 years.

And Todd Boughton added the 20 years.

Someone's got to pay for this.

And I think it should be Todd Boughton.

And, but they did all of this before Donald Trump was, you know, inaugurated because they were were worried.

They actually wanted me to go to trial before the inauguration.

Um, and because we were originally scheduled for to go to trial on January 15th.

So they wanted the trial to start before Trump was going to be inaugurated because they felt that Trump was going to pull the plug on this.

Well, Donald Trump gets inaugurated.

after the superseding indictment um and he announces that weaponization work group that was for the january 6th people um and then uh pam bondi comes in um and she kind of puts the weaponization workgroup together and she assigns the people that are supposed to go on this committee.

It's the deputy attorney general.

It's the attorney,

the

assistant attorney for civil rights, the assistant attorney for legal services, and then a number of other people that are on this committee.

Okay.

So as soon as they do that, we submit a packet to them.

to this weaponization workgroup for because one of the things in that

um

how was it it wasn't an executive order but the announcement was that we're going to go after any of the weaponization you know cases of the previous administration and i was just like well we fit in this category there i mean they've weaponized the whole yeah you think

um so we go through that

um we submit this packet we get an answer back um we had to then go to the acting u.s attorney in the state of utah to say ask him whether he would dismiss the case voluntarily without sending it to the weaponization workgroup.

He said, no, we're not planning on dismissing it.

So we sent that off back up to the DOJ in Washington, D.C.

The Assistant Attorney General of Utah was not going to dismiss it?

So the acting attorney general, John Viddy, was not going to dismiss the case.

He says, no, we think we have a good case.

We think we can win it.

We're not planning on dismissing the case.

Who is he?

Well, he's the acting attorney general that took over for Trina Higgins, who got fired.

U.S.

Attorney, you were.

U.S.

Attorney.

Yeah, the Fed says Attorney General.

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Acting U.S.

Attorney.

The head federal prosecutor.

The head federal prosecutor.

Yes.

Sorry about that.

So the acting U.S.

attorney said, no, we're not going to dismiss the case.

Is he still the acting U.S.

attorney?

He's still the acting U.S.

attorney there, yes.

How?

None of these people get fired.

What is going on?

None of these people get fired.

They don't.

This showing this level of cruelty to a fellow American, to an American citizen, is just disqualifying.

Well, it should be.

It should be.

You know, I've had this conversation with friends of mine.

What happened to the humanity, right, of our society?

What happened to crushing people?

And they're not even bad people.

I mean,

in a world with a lot of bad people, by the way.

There are a lot of bad people out there.

But again, this is a system that's built on winning.

It's not built on the justice.

It's not built on truth.

Okay.

It's built on winning.

And when they see a case that they can win, okay, then they're going to go after you um and they really thought that they were gonna win and they really wanted to win because they really wanted to show don't fuck with us because this is what's gonna happen with you

well that brings up levels of hostility in me that i i feel guilty about

um so okay so as of six weeks ago you were on trial for your literally for your life yes so we filed this with a weaponization workgroup eventually the weaponization workgroup said no we're not gonna we're not gonna we're we're not gonna intervene in this case what right

why

uh that's a really good question i don't know why

um it was i got my email from the doj in dc or my attorney got the email um uh probably within a within a few days or within a week of

And I don't know if it's just coincidence.

I don't think, do you remember Ed Martin, right?

Ed Martin was nominated, was nominated for the DC circumstances

court.

And

one of our senators, Comer, I think, said he wouldn't vote for him.

I can't remember who the, who, who was.

Yeah, no, he's been in this room telling a story.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So anyway,

so he got, he, you know, his nomination gets pulled.

And then the very next day, he gets assigned as the pardons attorney at the DOJ.

Right about that time was when I got notified that they they weren't going to take my case.

I don't think Ed Martin knew about my case at the time.

I'd be surprised.

And that's what I've heard as well.

But I just don't think he had enough time to kind of get in there and figure things out.

I mean, it takes time, you know, they take the effective ones out immediately.

They know who you are, they can smell it on you.

So,

so anyway,

and I don't think that my case ever made it to the committee.

I think my case was headed off before it got to the committee.

I can't prove that.

I don't know that.

Doctors have an inalienable right to choose the treatment they deem most effective for their own patients.

Like that's just a foundational

fact of American medicine, and it has to remain that.

So,

and by the way, they've lectured us on that for like my entire life, 40 years.

It's between a doctor and his patients.

Okay.

All right.

All right now.

And they not only uh strip that right from you and from your patients, they threw you in jail twice and then try to send you away for life for exercising a foundational right.

So that's all I would need to know if I was on that working group or that committee or whatever they fucking call it.

It's like, no, this is outrageous.

And anyone who prosecuted this guy is fired immediately.

Like, that's just not hard.

This is not a tough one.

Right?

This is not a let's split the baby.

Well, you and I have, you and I have common sense.

And you're right.

You don't need to split the baby in this case.

I didn't keep anybody from being vaccinated that wanted to be vaccinated.

Right.

And I didn't vaccinate the people that didn't want to be vaccinated.

Oh, exactly.

Thank you.

And I took care of my patients the way they were in front of me.

And I didn't fool anybody.

It's not like I was telling them that I was doing something when I wasn't or not.

It's not like you told them the vaccine was safe and effective and it would prevent transmission of COVID.

Correct.

Right.

Because there were quite a few doctors who did that.

That's called fraud.

And none of them has been indicted for it.

Right.

Right.

Okay.

Sorry.

Whoa.

I'm almost going to have to bring this to a close because you're making me so mad.

I fear for my cardiovascular health.

Tell us.

So I'll tell you that.

So in the end,

it gets denied.

Like I said,

I then go to trial.

July 7th was the beginning of the trial.

It seems like a bad dream, dude.

So I go to trial.

There was a small

rally for us the day our trial started.

We actually had the Speaker of the House, the state of Utah, was there on our behalf.

Good.

A couple of other politicians were there as well.

Carrie Ann Lisenby,

you know, Kristen Chevrier, you know, gave her support.

And, you know, there were a couple of people that had run for

the House, U.S.

House, that were there.

So people that were pretty well known.

And they, you know, they...

formed a rally for us and,

you know, with signs and everything supporting us.

We had jury selection for three days.

Um, during that time, uh, Ed Zahl, who was one of the producers for the movie Died Suddenly, um, was there and he was documenting everything.

He was doing video and pictures and cameras, he was writing down notes, he was in the courthouse for all five days.

Um, and he published an article midweek

that basically uh accused Pam Bondi of personally prosecuting me because it's her DOJ that was letting this go and she should know better.

That article went viral,

got picked up by Margie Taylor Greene, got picked up by Thomas Massey and Senator Lee.

And then we had a huge.

The three members of Congress I love.

Okay.

I'm so glad to hear that.

And then

picked up,

and then we had another larger rally on Friday.

And my son spoke at both of those rallies.

One of his speeches went viral, 1.7 million views.

And

then later, and so we're by this time we're in trial.

I actually got accused of

jury tampering because

we reposted the links to the rallies that were happening.

The prosecutors accused us of jury tampering.

Thankfully, the judge shot them down and said, I think we still have a First Amendment in our country.

And

so then trial goes through Friday.

I thought we had done a really nice job.

I mean, their witnesses were the director of the CDC COVID task force, a guy by the name of Chris Duggar,

and he called us the enemy.

The people that were vaccinated had been sick.

I think the vaccine people were the enemy.

That he said that in court, that we were the enemy, that they had to,

that they had to change their policies because the anti-vax people were the enemy, the enemy of the American citizens.

The American citizens were the enemy.

The federal agency is calling American citizens the enemy because they disagree.

Yes.

Yes.

You just shut it down.

I mean, I don't understand.

Okay.

We had the director of BARTA,

Gary Disbrow, the director of BARTA, the bio,

gosh, I can't, I wish I could remember these acronyms, what it stands for, but essentially they were the ones that were in charge of

in charge of the pharmaceutical companies getting the COVID shots and determining whether they, you know, who was going to get what and

everything else and looking at quote-unquote safety and all of the stuff of these COVID vaccines and

giving them the license to be able to distribute these products.

And

he was the director of that.

The interesting thing was, is that he came all the way across from Washington, D.C.

to testify in my case.

And there was a contract that he said that he was intimately involved in negotiating with between the Department of Defense.

Okay, again, this is what we mentioned earlier, the DOD and the pharmaceutical companies.

Okay.

They tried to submit this contract redacted.

We objected, and you can't submit a redacted contract.

The judge said, you're right.

Get the contract unredacted or you can't do it.

They actually got the contract unredacted and then they decided to not present the contract.

I don't know what was in the contract.

My attorneys do because it was in attorney's eyes only.

But my supposition, my speculation is, is that I think a couple of things.

One is I think that the contract predated COVID.

Okay, that's my speculation is, is that this contract was, you know, predated this, they started the negotiations sometime in 2019.

Okay.

Just getting ready.

And then it showed how involved our government was and our Department of Defense was in terms terms of development and manufacture and everything else of this vaccine.

And I believe that it showed that they did everything and then they just slapped the labels on it for the pharmaceuticals.

So it was called Operation Warp Speed.

Operation.

Who does operations?

Does McPernad do operations?

No, they have product rollouts.

Does Pfizer do operations?

I don't think so.

They're not occupying any countries.

The U.S.

military does operations.

That's who does operations, right?

Then that's why it was run by General Perna.

Operation Warp Speed was run by a guy, a general in our, you know, so did the.

Pardon my ignorance, though, in this interview, ignorance has really helped me because I'm like shocked by everything you've said.

And your case got almost no publicity outside of UT.

I didn't want publicity.

Yeah, well, you didn't get any.

I would have been on it a lot earlier if I'd known it was happening.

I tried to, at the very beginning of my indictment, I tried to get my indictment pushed back because I didn't even have an attorney yet.

So we're talking about January 23.

So January 26th was when

our arraignment.

So our arraignment was January 26th.

And I tried to get it pushed back because I didn't have an attorney.

And I was told at the time that, no, we can't push it back because we have media there and everything else.

And we don't want to change the date.

So we will assign you an attorney for your arraignment only.

Okay.

When I showed up for my arraignment, there were exactly zero.

mainstream media people there.

We had a rally that day too.

We had a couple of hundred people that were out on the steps that were there supporting us and everything else because we had put out the word.

But I truly believe that even though we were told that the media was supposed to be there, they didn't want to delay it any further because they didn't want to give us the opportunity to get more media publicity to have more people there.

So they didn't want media.

That's why they were going against the necessity defense.

They didn't want us to put the COVID vaccine on trial.

They didn't want us to put all this evidence that we could have put into it.

The COVID vaccine is the center of the story.

The government property you were indicted for destroying was the COVID vax.

The reason that you didn't want to administer the COVID vacc is because you thought the COVID vacc was ineffective at best and poison at worse.

The whole story is the COVID vaccine correct.

Right.

But we weren't allowed to talk about it.

Yeah.

In our system, they can indict you, threaten you with life in prison, throw you in jail twice, and then decide how you can defend yourself.

So one last thing that I'll tell you, and that'll get your blood boiling going even further.

I can't handle anymore, Doctor.

Okay.

Right before trial started, the the prosecution filed four more motions.

And basically, they were a motion.

So, in our country, fraud requires intent.

Okay.

You have to intent, you have to intentionally defraud somebody.

You have to have the intent that you're taking money from somebody, that you're telling you we're going to do something and you didn't do it, or you're going to use it for some other reason.

And that was your intent.

Okay.

So they filed four more motions that the judge actually didn't deny

to preclude me from if I got on the stand, from even me talking about what my intent was.

So if I'd had to get on the stand, it's very likely that I wasn't even going to be able to tell the story that I just told you.

In other words, the judge was going to keep me from saying, well, Dr.

Moore, you can't say why it was that you're doing that.

How about you just say, no, I'm guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, in fact, first

line item in the Bill of Rights, the right to say what I think is true.

It's called the First Amendment, and I'm going to say say this in court.

What would happen?

Back to Salt Lake City Jail?

Probably.

Probably.

So how are you here?

Well, so that Friday at the end of court, with all of the publicity, Marjorie Taylor Greene getting a hold of,

she said, I am sending a letter right now to AG Bondi.

I believe she got on the phone with her.

I think.

Did you know Marjorie Taylor Greene?

I did not know her from Adam.

Marjorie Taylor Greene has helped more people individually than any member of Congress.

Of course, she never gets credit for anything, but that's true.

So she's just moved by a sense of justice.

She's moved by a sense of justice coming from the state of Georgia with me in the state of Utah.

Okay.

Thomas Massey put out a really nice tweet about us that went viral as well.

Senator Mike Lee did.

Senator Mike Lee finally contacted Attorney General Bondi as well.

Friday,

so Saturday morning, our case got dismissed.

Attorney General Bondi put out a tweet

and said,

you know, Dr.

Moore gave his parents a choice or gave his patients a choice that the federal government did not.

I am dismissing this case on my, at my direction.

This ends now.

Those three words.

And so, and then five days later, I'm in her office meeting her, MTG,

and Mike Lee.

You know, so

like I said, I did.

So a week before you were facing life in prison, and the next thing you know, you're in the Attorney General's office.

Yes.

When what was that date that that happened?

So July 12th was the day, it was a Saturday, which was the day that my case got dismissed.

And so July 17th, we were in her office.

So six weeks ago,

how's your head now?

Like, how's your life?

It's been a whirlwind.

It's been a big change.

We are trying to put our pieces back together.

I'm trying to.

So from just to restate the timeline really quick, from the day the FBI showed up at your office scared the hell out of your lone patient until July 17th, how long was that?

So two and a half years.

So two and a half years just gone from your life at age 60, just gone.

Right.

And I'm having to rebuild my practice and

I say start over.

I mean, I'm not really kind of formally starting over, but yeah, it's rebuilding.

Your appetite for starting over, I can say, since I'm 56, diminishes with age.

So like

you don't want to do that at this age.

It's just like not, you should be with you.

And why do I want to stay in medicine?

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, that's, that's the question that I struggle with every day

because 99% of the people out there believe that I didn't do what was right or that I was not, that what I did was wrong.

So if you got a bunch just a cross-section of American physicians and said,

you know, knowing the evidence, does Dr.

Moore deserve to be sent to jail twice,

you know with ms 13 and then do life in prison how many do you think would agree oh i think that's that's a different question um i don't know that a lot of them would agree i think that i but i would say that there's probably a third of them that would there's still a third of the doctors that are out there that would say that what i did was wrong i falsified medical records i um these are the people who lied about the effectiveness of the COVID vaccine correct right okay but that's why I don't go to the doctor I mean this is like that's a this is an, I'm not sure how you fix this.

I don't either.

I don't either.

But that's the struggle with my profession right now is

that it's so

it's so bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry from top to bottom.

They own the textbooks.

They own the medical schools.

They own the journals.

They own our conferences.

They own our medical organizations, the AMA, the American College of Obstetrics.

Look, the AMA has a code of ethics.

The code of ethics says, it's a printed code of ethics that says that as a physician, you are going to come into conflict with the law.

We know that that's going to happen.

You have two things that you need to do as a physician.

The first one is you need to try to change the law so that it can comport back into your code of ethics that you're taking care of your patient.

And if your second thing is, if you can't do that, you have to take care of your patient that's in front of you.

I don't see the AMA standing behind me and helping me out.

Is the AMA that's for late-term abortion.

I mean, shut up, AMA.

I guess I'm disgusting.

Right.

It is.

Liars.

Why don't you go to work for Bobby Kennedy?

I don't know.

If he called me, I'd probably consider it.

But, you know, he's having a tough time right now, too.

Yeah, I know.

You know, the whole

Dan Bongino and Cash Patel are having a hard time.

Okay.

The stink is deep.

Okay.

And, you know, I mean, what was it?

Just a couple of weeks ago, Dan Bongino said that if you knew what I knew, you, you know,

you'd struggle too.

Yeah, he told me that.

I love Dan.

He called me.

He was upset.

He didn't give me any specifics.

No classified information.

Right.

Everything's classified.

All of their wrongdoings are classified.

Right.

All of my sins are public.

But I mean, but it's such a rot that goes so deep.

It's been going on for 250 years and it's only gotten it's only look you know this it's human nature you don't of course you can't uh if you don't get caught in a lie and you don't suffer the consequences of it then you're gonna lie again and our government and our politicians and and our industry and everybody has been lying to us for decades for centuries and it's just it's lie upon lie upon lie and you you get to the point where oh my gosh you just can't you

you can't get to the bottom of it.

No.

All made possible by secrecy.

All made possible by secrecy.

I'm really,

once again, I consider you a hero.

I'm grateful for what you did.

I'm grateful you're still here.

I hope you recover.

I can't imagine what it must have done to you.

And I hope that the rest of your life is spent in a really useful pursuit.

I hope that you find that thing.

And maybe it's not medicine, but I think you've got a, your example is inspiring.

And I think you've got a lot to give to the country, and I hope you find a way to give it.

Well, I appreciate you having me on, Tucker.

Oh, I mean it.

Thank you, doctor.

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