113. Shawn Ryan: Beating Addiction, Military Industrial Complex, Trump Presidency Outlook

Pharmaceutical companies and the food companies basically paying off the FDA politicians to vote a certain way. Same thing with war.
Vote this way. We want to prolong this war.
We're going to develop more supplies for it. It just makes you wonder if any of the elites have our best interests at heart because in our industrial food supply, the majority of our nutritional research is funded by big pharma.
I don't think it's about ending it. It's business.
You were dealing with some pretty heavy mental illness. It's still just not in vogue to ask for help.
Everything that you've worked so hard to accomplish, you're at the apex of what you do. And now nobody cares because you're not in that anymore.
There goes my whole identity. You have to learn how to reinvent yourself.
They call it an ego death. Tens of thousands of our military men and women that are permanently on the chemical hamster wheel, which is further destroying their life.
Why are we preventing people from accessing these kinds of therapies? What really did the trick was psychedelics. The most profound experience of my entire life.
And I don't say that lightly. For you and military men and women that are in your group, what does this election mean to you? Part of the reason we got to where we were is because people in this country are scared to...
Ultimate Human. Today, we are thrilled to have a remarkable guest on the Ultimate Human podcast, Sean Ryan.
Sean's journey is one of resilience, purpose, and relentless dedication from his days as a Navy SEAL and a CIA contractor to becoming a powerful voice in the veteran mental health community. through his acclaimed show the sean ryan show he's given a voice to the raw experiences of

veterans shedding light on p and the healing potential of alternative therapies, like psychedelics. Today, Sean will take us deeper into his story.
He's going to share the profound ways that his spiritual journey, mental health advocacy, and commitment to self-resilience have shaped his life and his mission. Join us as we uncover powerful insights into what it truly means to be an ultimate human.
Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything, wellness, longevity, anti-aging, biohacking, and everything in between.
And every once in a while, I am blessed enough to have a truly iconic guest on the podcast, not just a guest that is known to the world, but a guest that has had experiences in life that are just so uncommon, but yet so profound. And today is one of those rare moments on The Ultimate Human where we get to have a really, really impactful guest with an incredibly special and not very common background.
Welcome to the podcast, Sean Ryan. Hey, thank you.
It's an honor to be here. It's an honor to have you, man.
You know, military icon, you know, the work that you do for veterans, the awareness that you've brought to post-traumatic stress disorder, and even being very authentic about your own journey. Um, you know, I find it very, very inspiring.
And, you know, if you've ever watched my podcast and my audience knows, and it sounds like I'm just repeating the same old line, but so often the people that I have on this podcast that I feel are making the greatest impact in the world, people that have solved a problem in their life, right? And whether it's post-traumatic stress disorder or, you know, alcohol addiction or a relationship issue, or they had chronic Lyme disease or whatever it was, and they solved that issue. And because of that journey, they're making a massive impact in the world.
And I think you are definitely one of those people that turned a very storied, you know, military career into an impactful message. And I, and I just want to say on the eve of Veterans Day, what Veterans Day is the 11th, what's today? The 8th.
Okay. So it's March 8th.
I mean, it's, I can't think of a more impactful guest to have on the podcast. So I'm just, I'm so excited.
And sometimes, you know, I tell my, I tell my friends and family this all the time. I'm like, I don't feel like I work a day in my life.
Cause I really get to sit down with inspiring people like, like yourself. And so I've watched a lot of your podcasts.
I mean, lots of people have watched a lot of your podcasts. Um, and this is a very self-serving question, but of all these incredible military stories, incredible feats that you've had on your podcast, what is the biggest standout for you if there was? Guest-wise or subject-wise? I would say let's do guest-wise and then let's go into subject-wise.

I mean, guest-wise, military guys, man, there's so many.

That's hard.

That's a really hard question.

We were actually just talking about the sniper that did a 2.1-mile shot and made a kill.

I mean, these are the kinds of stories you'll find on this podcast. If you're not familiar with Sean Ryan, you should be.
And just the infinite amount of complexity of that, you know, a 10 second bullet trajectory. But you've had so many of these icons on and you even started a foundation to preserve these stories, right? I didn't start a foundation.
I help with a couple of different nonprofits, but I think the, I think there's been a couple, there's been a lot of really big impactful stories on the show. So I don't want to, I don't want to say my favorite one, but some of the most impactful ones that I think there were was earlier on in my podcast, I had this guy on DJ Shipley, SEAL Team 6 guy, really like poured his heart and soul out.
And, I mean, talked about his suicide attempts, talked about his infidelity and the challenges that his wife and him went through.

He talked about a lot of stuff that is really important. It's a peek behind the curtain that nobody gets to look at.
And another guy that I think is, you got to meet DJ, by the way. You guys would get along really good.
Is he a science nerd? He's a health nerd. Is he? Okay.
He's my guy. And a beast.
Yeah. But, um, another guy, Tom Satterley, uh, one of my favorite humans on the planet.
Uh, he was, he was a Delta guy. I'm sure you've heard the story about Black Hawk down back in Mogadishu.
And, uh, he is a lot of people say that kind of the main character in that movie was Tom. Tom was a really junior Delta guy at the time and went through that, talks about it very, very in-depth, very detailed, and served all the way through, you know, OEF, OIF, and just an awesome human being.
But there's been a ton of guys. Because I always wonder, you know, when you see these elite special forces, and you were SEAL Team 2 and SEAL Team 8, right? And for folks that don't know the difference, I mean, we always team six but what what are the difference between the the the different seal teams and what are the what are the numbers really indicating a specialty so that so the yeah the numbers so you go through buds everybody you go through buds you go through sqt everybody becomes a seal and then so all the odd number teams are on the west coast all the even number teams are on the east coast out of little creek virginia or damneck west coast teams are all out of coronado california and then there's an sdv team that's out of hawaii and that's uh this like the mini submarines but and then seal team six so you get through you go to a regular seal team and uh either go east or west coast or hawaii and then SEAL Team 6, so you get through, you go to a regular SEAL team and either go East or West Coast or Hawaii.
And then you, I don't know what it is now, but you used to, you could basically kind of do one enlistment or two platoons. Two platoons means two deployments.
And so after you do two deployments, then you can screen to go over development group. And so screening is kind of a series of things.
It's an interview with your current command. It's a physical fitness test.
It's a you go interview over a development group and they kind of know if they think that you would be a good fit

and so that's that's if you're going to make it a career that's the next step you go and what is

that what is that kind of career when you say be a good fit be a good fit to continue being a seal

well so when you go to development group you go through a whole nother training course as well

so so um so you go to the seal you, you do your deployments and then basically you try out, it's a tryout for the next level. Wow.
So, yeah. So there's another level above like the SEALs.
I mean, there's like the ultra SEALs. I mean, pretty much like super SEALs.
Um, you know, I, I, I've, I've heard you, um, you know, talk about some of your real world, um, experience. One in particular was, uh, Haiti, I believe where you guys were, um, you know, patrolling at very low altitudes.
And I mean, Hollywood has kind of sensationalized that, but, um, this was a very troubled part of the world, at that period of time and a very ruthless part of the world. And I don't think that they really wanted us to be there.
And can you talk a little bit about that experience for, you know, for folks that have never actually faced combat experience? To me, it's fascinating because I feel like you can train yourself for just about anything, but I would imagine that no mission goes exactly like you planned. I mean, you have to find yourself in a place of the unknown.
And this place of the unknown has got to be one of the darkest, most frightening places because usually the types of unknowns that someone with your career would find would be things that could end your life. Right.
And it's a metaphor for business and it's a metaphor for life. It's a metaphor for relationships because you know, like when a mother has a baby, there's no manual on how to raise the child.
When, you know, when you get into a marriage, there's no manual on how to have a good marriage a good marriage we start a business there's really no step-by-step manual on how to grow a business and we i think in life we find ourselves in so many places of the unknown like we started out with one intention you guys go in with one mission um and then holy shit things don't go as planned um and maybe my exit strategy is now I don't have it any longer. And the support that I thought I was going to have is no longer with me.
And I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit about when your training takes you to a place where you're outside of your background, you know, and your preparedness.

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In training, you want to talk about? No, I want to talk about it in real life,

real combat. Okay.
Because you're one of the few that's actually seen real combat. And I was

listening to some of your Haiti stories and and they were just terrifying about how roadside bombs were taking out your guys. And you're flying at very low levels, which is very dangerous.
I imagine small arms fire could get to you at those levels. So, I mean, you're in a constant state of fight or flight.
Um, I, I'd love it if you could talk about a situation that you found yourself in where you were truly in that unknown, like I didn't expect this. Uh, maybe I didn't train for this.
Um, maybe the exit I planned is cut off and now what, what do I do? Yeah. Uh, there's a lot of those.
those um so i was hoping there was only like one or two but now there's a lot of them but uh yeah you know i actually um i didn't i didn't do a whole lot in haiti it was um it was 2004 there was a lot of civil unrest there um aristide was the president at the time he got yankeded out. Wasn't me.
I would have loved to have yanked him out, but it wasn't me. One of your guys yanked him out? Yeah, I think it was Team Six.
Okay. But we were basically going to all these outer cities in Haiti to kind of get a pulse on what the rest of the country was like outside of Port-au-Prince, the and it was just there was i mean no shots were fired uh but a lot of prisons uh were not functioning and prisoners were you know criminals were just everywhere there were a lot of bodies kind of floating around and stuff on the shore but but the majority of my content combat stuff was all afghanistan iraq uh yemen and so what's one i haven't talked about in a while we did this one i was at um this is actually when i was at the uh cia we're at a i think it was around 2012 time frame i don't know how because Because after the SEALs, you went into the CIA.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So around 2012 time frame, I don't know how closely you followed the war, but there was an area of Afghanistan.
It was supposed to be what was basically getting ready to happen there. It was going to be the biggest offensive push by the U.S.
Marine Corps since Fallujah.

And everybody knows about Fallujah.

Fallujah is by far the bloodiest, deadliest battle of both those wars.

And so a big push to go and kind of push Taliban, Al-Qaeda out of the cities there.

When you say push them out of the cities, you're going in to kill them. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
Not me. Yeah.
I'm agency at this point. No, you've never heard anybody.
We're way back. No, you're.
No. We're back behind.
No. We're in the thick of it, but, you know, we are, that's not my job anymore, you know, is to go in and, and do that.
Honestly, it never was. That's more of a infantry, uh, conventional type operation, but, but anyways, uh, before that push, uh, even got kind of got started, it was just a couple teams teams of us, uh, embedded down there to, to do surveillance and do some liaison stuff with, with the local government down there.
Um, and, and, and basically just collect intelligence. And so, but one thing that we, we kept fucking up, can I say that on here? You can say fucked say fucked up.
So there's some things when you're working intelligence or surveillance that are just, it's just a no-go. Don't ever be time-place predictable.
Don't take the same routes. Don't take the same routes at the same time.
Don't have different routes into wherever you're going. and when i had gotten there uh there was just a big bombing it was horrible a lot of a lot of agency personnel died basically they had a double agent come in uh present a fucking birthday cake to the chief of station a lot of a lot of people at the agency get like kind of attached to to their assets and um emotionally and he was a true double agent yep so he was trusted by the cia the cake yeah and he took himself out too yeah and he took out took out all the leadership took doubt oh my god took took a lot of people out and uh so that had just happened when i showed up here and i i said hey uh we're time and place predictable the are we doing yeah and um of course nobody wanted to listen because um when people like me come around for those type of operations a lot of times i think we get in the way but there's a reason we're there that's why and nobody wanted to listen.
Next morning, we got up.

Boom. There's like 100 and something Taliban fighters on the other side of the river.
They know exactly where our compound is. So they started hitting the compound.
We're in a little house. Woke up in the morning.
You're in a little house. Yep.
A hundred heavily armed fighters out there. And shots just start coming through the house.
And there's only a couple of us. And so the reason we knew there was over a hundred Taliban fighters is because we had drones on station and they were reporting in.
And so that wound, that wound up going until about midnight, uh, that night, they started maneuvering around. They, they got in this big, uh, probably 10, 15 story building started shooting at us from over there and, um, nobody would come get us.
So, wow. why not? I thought that's a great question.
Yeah. But it just wound up being, we didn't have a lot of supplies.
Meaning a lot of bullets. Bullets? We didn't have a lot of anything.
And, yeah, so it was a lot of switching out people on the roof and burning classified materials and thinking, holy shit, we're going to fucking die here. I knew this was coming.
We were time and place predictable. And the British actually wound up coming in around midnight to get our asses out of this.
British Special Forces. Just British Army.
Not British Special Forces. The big machine rolled through the town and got our asses out of there.
Wow. Now, how were you communicating with them? I mean, how did...
Radios. Sharing intelligence? Well, there was a...
So, remember, they were getting ready for the offensive push since Volusia. So there was – there were some Americans around.
There was a big kind of ISAF base close by that had Polish special forces. Those guys were going out, getting some like every night, multiple times a night.

Really?

Uh, and then, and then. Just getting engaged.
Yeah. They were, I don't know what they were doing, but they were going out a lot.
Okay. And, um, and then, uh, it was big Brit base.
So the British, British army came in and pulled us out of there. Thank God.
But, but, uh, when I could go in. But you were able to hold off 100 armed soldiers for a dusk, I mean, daylight to day.
It wasn't like they were like right outside the door. You know, we couldn't even see the 100 Taliban fighters who were amassing on the other side of this river now that we were on it was it was we started taking contact then they started then they infiltrated that building that I was telling you about there you can find this I should find the clip and send it to you Wow but but they were hidden us from that building and then they were sending teams around kind of this neighborhood.
We were kind of like in a, it sounds weird, but it's the only way to really describe it in terms that Americans would be able to kind of understand it. It would be kind of like a small gated community, but we only have one little section of it.
And so they had guys coming around the walls, like, trying to figure out exactly, you know, which little area was ours. And then when they pinpointed it, they got on that massive building and started shooting RPGs, small arms fire.
RPGs? Yeah. They sent the local, we sent someghan forces to go try to take care of it and they were dropping grenades off the top story of the building um trying to kill those guys who were coming up to get them and and uh yeah wow and and you know i think for people that weren't really close to that war following, I mean, most of us get our information from the media, which is probably 2% of that is accurate.

Yeah.

I'm giving them a win. That would be a generous percent.

I'm just kidding.

I'm giving them a win, you know.

I'm feeling kind of bad for them in the wake of what just happened.

Oh, don't feel bad.

Yeah.

You haven't sent any flowers out to you? No. I'm trolling all the mainstream now.
I know. We talked about that earlier.
I like trolling them now. Yeah, you've never watched so much MSNBC in your life, have you? No.
Oh, man. That's okay if you gloat over the meltdowns.
It's all right. It's all right to take a victory lap.

But, you know, when I think a lot of times, you know, over here, you know, the populace thinks of, you know, the Afghan armies, you know, they're like a bunch of just ragtag kids, you know, with the bandana, barely know how to shoot a gun. You know, they're probably working in the supermarket and at night they're fighting and and um you know as as i watch your podcast and hear some of the stories and they're a lot more sophisticated yeah and and and even a lot more trained um than then i think the the average person believes that they are i mean it's i i think the average person they see a lot of these videos on TV.
Nobody's in the same uniform. Their trucks aren't, you know, perfect governmental vehicles.
Everybody's kind of hanging on the back of a pickup truck and it just looked like a bunch of loosely gathered drinking buddies with a, with a rifle, but it's not like that. No, I mean, not at all.
I mean, you gotta, you, think something that Americans grossly underestimate is the Afghan army and the people that are fighting over there. And I think where they really mistake it is just because those people don't have, you know, they live without a lot of things doesn't mean they're fucking stupid or doesn't mean they're not effective.
And so, you know, I think a lot of Americans are like, oh, that's that guy dresses like that. He doesn't have the proper equipment.
He doesn't. He can't bullshit, man.
Those people are extremely resourceful. They're very intelligent and they're very effective.
And I think that's a huge misnomer, right? Yeah. That they're just a bunch of dumb hillbillies.
There's also the experience too. I mean, you can take a guy like me that spent 14 years in and out of there.
Well, 14 years in and out of there is nothing compared to just 14 years straight or over 20 years straight. Or some of these older village elders that have been there since the Russians invaded and been through that.
And then now all the way through this. I mean, I come home.
You know, I do a six month deployment. I come home, the agency, I go 45 days, maybe 60 days, come home.

Those they live there for 20 years. They don't,

they don't go on vacation.

They don't go home to their families back in the States where everything's

fine.

They're just gaining all of that experience throughout those years.

So their commandos are,

Thank you. where everything's fine, they're just gaining all of that experience throughout those years.
So their commandos are more experienced than ours. Wow.
I think that's a real level set as to what we face because I think it was always shocking when we would hear these stories of mass casualties or so many of you know, of our military men and women, you know, not coming home and you go, how, how are we not just steamrolling over these people? I mean, we're the largest military force on the globe. We're the most sophisticated.
We're the highest, highest trained. And then we, we, this should have been a, you know, virtual walk in the park.
Is that a lot of, because there's also a political war keeping you guys from doing what you really need to get done um or is it because they were a lot more formidable than than you thought or than when than our than our military brass thought can you can you so like i'm seeing like were we were we on did we underestimate them is basically what I'm saying, you know, or I've also, um, again, through your podcast, um, I've seen a lot of stories where, um, the guys on the ground, the, the, the, the fighting forces wanted to finish a job, but for political reasons they had, they couldn't engage or they were redirected somewhere else. And, and it, you know, it seemed like there was this tug of war between the command at the very, very top sort of running things maybe out of Washington.
And I don't profess to be a military scholar by any means, but, you know, running things out of Washington, you know, and then what was going on in the ground. And sometimes we just didn't give our guys the authority to just finish the job yeah would you agree with that absolutely yeah i think and is that part of why just drug on and drug on and drug on well i think it drug on and drug on because war is a business um but in the beginning i mean i don't think it's hard to say.
I would say that the disconnected upper brass of the military, the DC crowd definitely underestimated the capabilities. Guys that are actually on the ground experiencing what's going on may be underestimated at the very beginning, but quickly became a new reality when you did see what they were capable of.
So now what changed the war? I don't know exactly what the turning point was, but, but, you know, at the beginning there were, there were, it did seem to be that we were there for the right reasons. The RE, the ROEs were loosened up.
They made sense. Uh, they leaned on the benefit of the U S service member, you know, and, and, and at the beginning of the Afghanistan war, that was, that was a, a, and always should have been a special operations war.

Very precise. Strategic.

Precise, yes.

Yeah.

But, you know, at some point in time, the big machine wanted to come in.

Then in came all the bureaucrats. then the whole everything changed and i think that i think that change happened right around 2005 i think that operation red wings um that was if you've seen the movie the lone survivor that was that operation uh that time what was that one about him that was so there they had inserted a team of snipers um on a mountaintop to overwatch a valley there was a hvt down there that they wanted or something i can't remember exactly uh goat herder sent uh went up the mountain um found the sniper team kind of by accident they made a judgment call hey let him go back he went back and then a whole army came and and killed everybody on the sniper team except one guy who got away.
We sent some Helos in.

Is a QRF.

That's a quick reactionary force, kind of like a backup.

And those Helos got shot down.

Was the biggest loss in SEAL team history until extortion 17.

So that operation.

And that was a SEAL team.

That was a SEAL sniper team.

And they were just, what, just overpowered. Yeah, they were.
I mean, there was only four of them. Wow.
Danny Dietz, Matt Axelson, Murphy, Lieutenant Mike Murphy, and then Marcus Luttrell, who was a survivor. Wow.
And then the Helos that got shot down to come and to come and reinforce those guys wow and so that was

a lot of controversy uh around that operation within the seal teams and within special operations uh my team was actually the one that went in to relieve those guys um seal team two went in to relieve team 10 after that had happened, and they just shut down all operations, it seemed like. What do you mean? I mean, we just kept putting in these packages for operations, going after people, and everything was getting denied denied and um i i just being there at that time and knowing what everybody was doing before then versus after um that may have been a turning point it did get very political uh there was a a lot of politics being played between upper leadership at the SEAL teams versus SOCOM.
And I think that may have been part of it. The other thing I think that happened is Dick Cheney and Halliburton.
Really? Oh, yeah. Wow.
Because you said, you know, war is a business. War is a business.
And sadly, you know, there is a military industrial complex. industrial complex oh yeah and a lot of it's privatized and i don't think that um you know most of america's even aware of the money that's made from foreign wars i mean you know you often wonder like what is our interest in just continuing these endless wars i mean we we've we've gotten so many of them in the last three years, and I'm sure you have an opinion on that and I'd love to hear it.
We didn't have any for, for four years. And then now all of a sudden you've got conflicts in Israel and you, you've got, you know, conflicts in Iran and you've got conflicts in obviously Russia and Ukraine.
And it seems like the whole world's going to hell in the handbasket quick. And we pull out Afghanistan, we leave $83 billion of our military equipment, which I saw the parade that they were kind enough to do the other day.
I mean, and, but this, this military industrial complex, I mean, what, what's behind that? Who's, who's driving the, the private companies are that are pro-war because i mean it's it's uh yeah that's that's who's driving it i mean back then you gotta look at where dick jic tain dick cheney you can just call him dick yeah he is a fucking dick isn't he it is but uh yeah so if you just want to say dick i mean we'll we'll know who it is you can even call him the dick big dick but uh he was ceo of haliburton and haliburton was the logistics company haliburton kbr is was the logistics company that put in all logistics for uh operation iraqi freedom and and the afghanistan war and so what does does that mean? That means they are the ones building all of the barracks. They're building the chow halls.
Any infrastructure that needs building, KBR builds it. KBR delivers the mail.
KBR cooks the food. KBR has the cleaning crews.
KBR has the fuel points. They deliver the fuel.
They have every possible logistical thing you can think of was done by KBR in two different wars. And the vice president of the United States was the former CEO of Caliburton when that happened.
Wow. So now you can see, you know, the conflict of interest.
interest. I mean, we see the same thing.
You know, I'm much more cognizant of the food supply in our country, but it just makes you wonder if any of the elites have our best interests at heart because, you know, in our industrial food supply, the majority of our nutritional research is funded by big food, big pharma, which is what we were talking about earlier that's why lucky charms are listed as more nutritious than grass fit steak um you know the majority of our um research that get us gets approved through the food and drug administration you know funded by um big pharma which actually leads to the drugs the food makes us sick and the drugs fix what the food well they prolong what the food causes and it's why we have 65 almost 70 of our diet coming from highly processed foods um you know because you when i think when private enterprise is allowed to influence public policy um especially in war i mean people are dying dying for that. You know, I had a podcast guest on the other day that said, you know, we've privatized the profits, but we socialized the expense.
Meaning the profits go to private enterprise, but the expense goes to the American taxpayer. Spence goes to the people.
And you see this over and over again. I mean, see the pandemic, you know, where did the profits go and who picked up the bill? Yeah.
When we know where the profits went and the taxpayer picked up the bill. And I just didn't have as much of, you know, non-myopic view into wartime.
But it doesn't surprise me that, you know, you have people that stand to make billions of dollars, you know, off of a war that, you know, is either unnecessary or could have then been done in a much different way. I mean, you know, think about it.
I mean, Ukraine's got to be the same thing. I still haven't figured out Ukraine.
Yeah, so it's the same thing. I mean, you're talking about the pharmaceutical companies and the food companies basically paying off, what, the FDA politicians to vote a certain way.
Same thing with war, right? So you got, I mean, oh, we left all those helicopters and tanks and everything over in Afghanistan, right?

You don't think that, I don't know, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Raytheon, all these places.

We're like, oh, just leave that shit there.

We'll build you new ones.

You know?

We'll build you another 83 billion.

We have all this extra equipment.

Extra equipment.

Cool.

Send that over to Ukraine.

We'll build you some new shit. You know what I mean? And so that's how it happens.
It's, hey, vote this way. We want to prolong this war.
We're going to develop more supplies for it. Yeah.
How do we spend $110 billion or maybe even more? I haven't even heard $200 billion. And things are at a stalemate.
Like, what did we get for $110 billion? Did we get any shift in the dynamic of the conflict? Or did we just basically take the can down the road and we still have this prolonged stalemate? I don't think it's about ending it. I think it's about its business.
And so it's all of these companies selling their technology and their wartime products, their weapons, their bullets, their radios, jammers, logistics companies, all of that. They want the war to continue moving on because that's their business.
And if there is no war, these guys aren't making any money. It's just back to research and development.
Do you think Trump's going to put an end to that? I know you've got to be pretty pleased with the events of the last week. Some big promises.
But, I mean, look, it's already happening. I mean, shit, it's been, what, two, three days since the election? Yeah.
And Hamas has already said, we're done. We're done.
I saw that come out in Newsweek. Yeah.
And I'm hoping that we can believe those, you know, some of these positive messages that, you know, Hamas is saying, hey, we're going to close up shop and Iran is going to, you know, engage in ceasefire talks right away. I mean, those are really positive because you know i think you know again i am not a war historian or you know uh you know profess to know anything about um wartime strategy but you know when you when you have these these big countries and they think that there's feckless leadership there's like an open you know an open door where there's no consequences at least they know that there's going to be consequences and so they're like you know we don't want any part of that yeah we got you know two three months until shit's really going to hit the fan for us let's come and have you know peace talks yeah i mean putin's already wanted to come to the table with negotiations i mean when interviewed Trump, he said that war would be done before he steps into office.

I remember he said that.

I was like, that is a bold statement.

I know.

I mean, that is a bold, bold statement.

I mean, because the Mullahs in Iran, Putin,

they don't seem like they've been to anybody else's agenda.

Now they'll bend to a two by four to the face. But I don't think that, you know, really tough talk like don't.
I know I really don't think that those things really frighten them. Yeah.
So to see them move this fast is pretty interesting. So, I mean, what do you have? are you aware that we have U.S.
military special forces involved in those conflicts right now? I know they're in the region, but they say that we don't have our special forces and our men and women in harm's way, and you're not seeing like the death tolls clicking on the media. But I can't imagine that there's conflicts of this scale

and that our men and women are not involved.

I'm sure there's a couple.

Okay.

But there's definitely going to be a couple in there,

but I don't think that there is a large majority

of U.S. personnel in harm's way in Ukraine.

Well, at least I'm happy to hear that.

Are you hopeful that this thing can be resolved? I mean, from where you... Yeah, 100%.
And how does it end? Do they annex some territory to Russia? And Ukraine slightly shrinks in size. Do they have to leave NATO? I'm always curious to figure out...
There sometimes seems to be such an easy solution, and that's a very myopic view, to ending this war. And you'd think, well, why didn't somebody think of that for the last several years while we were funneling hundreds of billions of dollars? Yeah, you know, I think we've been lied to about the reasons that we're over there, so I don't know, you know, exactly what it's going to take to end it.
But I do think that I've read and I've interviewed some people that say that the region that is being fought over is extremely rich in natural gas. And so, you know, while it's kind of funny, while the Democrats all are, you know, pro-Ukraine, let's go, we've got to do this.
I think the real reason that we are there or that we are aiding that is because I think that if Ukraine holds onto that, we will be the ones to build the infrastructure to pipe in all the natural gas into Europe. Now, if you remember before, that was Russia.
It was piping in all that natural gas to Europe. Trump had even said, you guys are stupid.
Your enemy is supplying you with your energy supply. So while the Democrats or the previous administration or whatever the fuck you want to call it you know paints it out as some kind of humanitarian mission i think the real reason that we were there is to actually build the infrastructure around those natural gas reserves to pump that into europe because that boosts our economy that is i mean whether you agree with it or not hey big surprise us surprise, U.S.
is involved in another fucking oil war.

Right.

Or, you know, I guess not oil this time. Well, I mean, look at the Keystone Pipeline.

Yeah.

I mean, but it also puts a major dent in Russia's economy because if they're not supplying all of Europe with natural gas from their pipeline and U.S. builds the infrastructure in Ukraine to pipe in the natural gas, well, then, I mean, that would be.

Thank you. pipeline and u.s builds the infrastructure in ukraine to pipe in the natural gas well then i mean that's that would be that would be amazing for our economy right you know i don't i think that would be a hard so we're getting back to being energy independent on our own soil um well which is not necessarily because because what i'm saying is we the – basically what I'm saying is because of all the money that we dumped into Ukraine and because of all the – because how involved we've been in that war, we have to be paid back somehow.
We didn't just give them however – I hope not. Hundreds of billions.
Hopefully not. Yeah.
Hopefully got an IOU.OU but you know that might seem like chump change compared to the natural gas that's going to feed Europe that we're going to take control of and so I think that that plays a little bit more of a role than people might be aware of uh than just hey this is I mean look it's I mean but it's fucked up what Russia did They're trying to take land that doesn't belong to them. Right.
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Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast. And I remember when they were, I still remember very vividly when they were amassing along the border.
And I was like, what do you think is going on? They didn't really hide it. It wasn't a clandestine, like, you know, in the dark of night kind of, you know, surprise raid.
I mean, they built forces up right on that border for months. And I, well, I mean, I remember Biden talking about it, but that's probably not a good reference.
But, you know, he was like, you could just do a small incursion or whatever he was whatever he he was saying but it seemed like you know we were more aware what was about to happen that we were like shocked oh my gosh I can't believe that they actually went to Ukraine and they've been putting tanks on the border for the last four months yeah um and you know I always know that there's some more than meets the eye and when I meet people that have a profound depth of understanding and knowledge, like, you know, I listened to Bobby Kennedy talk about the history of how, you know, in his words, the U.S. really put them in a position to have no choice.
And it's such a unique perspective, but it's he lays things out in such a beautiful manner about, you know, how we refused certain treaties. And they we had we had made agreements with Russia not to allow certain things to happen, like certain countries to join NATO.
And then when we recanted on those, you know, we're somehow like surprised that they're behaving that way. And, you know, I didn't intend to start this podcast and talk about the Ukraine war.
Seriously, I'm like way out of my topic zone, but you know, just to have you on here and get some, some insight into it. But I want to rewind the clock a little bit and get, and get back to, um, you know, your story, because your story is fascinating to me, um, that when you got the military and you were dealing with some pretty heavy issues, mental illness, some psychological issues.
And we were talking in the kitchen before we came in here about how it's still just not in vogue to ask for help, still not in vogue to, you know, raise your hand and say, I'm not okay. It's usually the families or the spouses or, you know, someone close to them that really tries to reach out and get them help.
And I think there has to be a dynamic between somebody that is so highly trained,

like a member of a SEAL team and is, has seen that kind of combat.

I mean, these, these are the men of men, right?

And then to come back and have to be vulnerable.

I wondered if you, if you talk a little bit,

cause you've been very vocal about PTSD and very vocal about your journey.

And I wonder if you might even talk about your journey and some of the issues that you solve. I love your psilocybin journey, by the way.
I mean, I am fully on board for the psychedelics versus the chemicals, synthetics, the pharmaceuticals, and some of the other treatments that we can do, ketamine, under medical supervision to address the severe inflammatory conditions in the brains of a lot of these soldiers that are really causing them to be tormented inside of their own bodies. So if you wouldn't mind, I mean, I'd love to talk a little bit about your journey with that and how you solved that problem.
Sure. Where would you like me to start to? I'm going to talk about how bad it got.
Yeah. Yeah.
I want you to talk about as comfortable as you are talking about how bad it got, because that's, that's the problem. Yeah.
Right. And, and the good news is that, I mean, here you are today, right? So yeah, you know, I think there's just a just a i mean to kind of try to put it into a perspective that you might understand i mean it's very obviously you've done you've done extremely well you're at the best at what you do you built a fucking entire empire that is extremely impressive me yeah thank you wow now that's really kind of you now i'm going to take all that away please don't right now and you have to figure out how you're going to make a living feed your family what are you going to talk about what are you going to tell people you do you're proud of what you built right so that all goes away and you're just nothing you have no idea where you're going to take the rest of your life you know these guys most of these guys are 40 years old, you know, so they still have their whole life ahead of them.
So you're dealing with that, number one. Everything that you've worked so hard to accomplish, all the cool stories, you're at the apex of what you do.
Nobody's better. You've reached the ceiling, you know, and now nobody fucking cares because you're not in that anymore it's not relevant and that's you know i think you see that a lot with pro athletes when they retire when they get hurt when they're done you know it's like well there goes my whole identity and um so you have to you have to learn how to reinvent yourself on top of that you're also dealing you guys were talking about this earlier, addiction to adrenaline and the fight or flight response.
I mean, busy minds. You know, you're always, I mean, I still love a good adrenaline rush.
But, I mean, when you come out of a job like that, I don't know what the chemicals are. You would a lot more about that than i would obviously but you know it becomes that adrenaline dump becomes an addiction and so you you are subconsciously looking for ways to kind of fill that void uh when you're not on deployment and then when deployments are all one of them when they're all over it it it is it's all over, you get anxiety knowing that you're not going to feel that again.
You're not going to feel that. It's not even a rush, man.
It's, I mean, when you are involved in heavy combat, it is, I mean, it's just, it's primitive, man. It's primal.
It's, there's nothing in the world like it. It is like, I mean,

you are as weird as it sounds.

It is a fucking amazing experience if you survive it and walk out of it.

And that's all you want to talk about.

And that's all you want to feel.

And that's all you want to do.

And so that's,

I mean,

that's,

that's the reason I got out of the seal teams is I wasn't getting enough of

it.

Really?

Yeah.

That's a big reason I got out.

You weren't being deployed as often.

I wasn't good.

Thank you. I mean, that's the reason I got out of the SEAL teams is I wasn't getting enough of it.

Really?

Yeah.

That's a big reason I got out. Why you weren't being deployed as often?

I talked about Afghanistan earlier, you know, and that when I got there, things had kind of changed.

Started getting political.

Bureaucrats started getting in.

I mean, when I went in, I wanted to go out every night, multiple times a night.

That's all I wanted to do was go out. On patrol, you mean? Go to war.
Really? On patrol, combat. Combat.
And I just, I wasn't getting enough doses of it. Wow.
That's incredible. Like, I can, I'd be the opposite.
I'm like, I want to go home. Well, but I mean.
Maybe because because I don't have that training. Yeah.
I mean, you gotta, you gotta remember too. I mean, it's years.
It's for me, it was, I mean, I joined the Navy went through buds buds is six months. If you make it through for me without any hangups, almost nobody makes it without any hangups.
so you're looking at a good eight months i would say eight to nine months would be average just to get through buds then you go through sqt that's still qualification training there's another four or five months then you get to your seal team you think you're a badass guess what you're not you got another year and a half of training at your civil team to go just to go to the fucking war, you know? And so you're looking at a good three, three and a half years of training just to get the opportunity to go to war. Wow.
So you're ready by the time or you think you're ready by the time you get there. But and so I'm kind of going through back to what we were talking about.
I'm kind of going through like all the things that guys deal with. Then there's then there is PTSD, which now they're saying special ops guys.
It's called operator syndrome. They're kind of starting to transition that.
But, you know, it's it's survivor's's guilt it's all my friends that are now dead oh i'm not saying me but you know people oh i had to kill a woman oh i had to kill a kid oh fuck that person was probably innocent you know i mean all the shit that you see and so there's so there's just uh the the stuff you were talking about earlier with sleep. Nobody I know that comes from this job sleeps or sleeps well.
And because you're in that constant state of, for lack of a better term, paranoia, even though once you've done it for so long it doesn't seem like paranoia it's just it's just life and so when you've been that long after yeah wow and so you know when you get home your identity has been stripped you have all these chemical imbalances in your brain you've seen more trauma than just about anybody on the planet. Um, and, and, and then your own injuries, you know, that you're fighting as well with, you know, banged up knees or, or heaven forbid amputees, you know, stuff like that.
And it's, these are all the things that are kind of going through your head. And so for me, when I left the agency, I was looking for that adrenaline.
And so I moved to Medellin, Colombia, and found that adrenaline by getting involved in cocaine rings and we'll branch it in medellin you just went there yeah yeah yeah pretty much okay and uh yeah i was there for uh right about in and out for five years and um and realized i had a a was really scared in the line there,

OD'd a couple times, and pulled through that.

And I never even did drugs as a kid.

Did you do them in, you know, it wasn't your military service.

I mean, obviously, you're not doing drugs in the military.

No.

Since after you got out.

It's just, life's just not exciting anymore.

Uh-uh.

So you're down to Medellin with a buddy of yours or something?

Yeah, it started with a buddy.

It started in, I started going to Cartagena with a buddy,

and then I just started flying solo down there

and started kind of building a lot of contacts and stuff.

But got really addicted to cocaine, had two pretty close calls where I overdosed. And this is just from just used it for too many days too often.
It was just too much. Coke all the time.
Just Coke all the time. I remember I was always paranoid that I was.

Turns out Coke makes you paranoid.

Who knew?

But THC, same thing.

But now I remember my best friend who was with me down there.

I would always get worried that I was.

There's a good friend.

Yeah.

And he's dead now. Okay.
But he said, you don't need to worry. You don't need to worry about your ODing.
If you're on speed, you don't need to worry that you're ODing unless things start to slow down. And I was like, huh, all right, I guess that makes sense.
And then I remember the first time I felt it, things started slowing down. My speech was like, sounded like that fucking scene on Old School where Will Ferrell was like, ooh.
It was, everything just slowed down. My voice slowed down.
My brain was moving faster than I could talk. I couldn't talk.
And I just saw the lights go. You were really, really wired at the time at the time oh yeah so just your central nervous system was just absolutely yep ryan done and and so the the vision starts to narrow yep yeah wow vision barrel the vision narrowed and uh and then i woke up on the on the floor of a club and club yeah wow woke up on the floor of a club.
Of a club? Yeah. Wow.
Woke up on the floor of a club that didn't do it. That was actually my very first time doing coke.
But then it happened two more times after that, years after that. And so I realized I have a problem, had a problem, left Columbia, kind of got ran out of there actually, but left there, moved to Boca Raton, Florida, and kind of kept at it there.
thought if I removed myself out of that environment that I would clean it up stateside, which I didn't. And then there I had a suicide attempt where I just completely just kind of, not kind of, lost hope.
I mean, my routine, Gary, was... Lost hope that you would get out, that you would solve it.
I just didn't care anymore, man. Like, all my friends were still involved in the war uh either it in the SEAL teams or a development group or in the agency and to hear like what those guys were involved in and what they were doing and I wasn't there then why couldn't you have stayed I mean why was it your choice to leave it choice to leave? It was my choice to leave.
It was your choice. But then you also missed it.
Yeah, I missed it. And I really, I missed it for a long time.
And so it ruined all my family relationships just because I was, when I was drinking more than a fifth of vodka a day, I would wake up, my whole freezer was just completely packed with vodka mini bottles. My glove compartment, my car was packed with vodka mini bottles.
Everywhere I went, had flask or mini bottles. And that's how I would get through the day, drinking that.
And then at night, when I would go back home, I would just pull out a fifth and tug on that until the lights were out.

And while I was tugging on that, I would take ambient, Xanax, Valium, lorazepam, hydrocoating, anything I could to keep my mind from just going all the time. And how were you able to get that? Just dealers would get their hands on it.
Well, I worked overseas and, you know, turns out that most countries you don't need a prescription to get whatever you want. So I would just go behind the counter and tell them what I want and throw it in a, in a shopping basket and stock up and bring it all home.
And, uh, you know, I had done that for years. And, um, so I had stockpiles of it, uh, at home.
And then, and then I was also, you know, when I did finally start to kind of get some help and

I started going to therapy, I mean, I would get it prescribed, you know, hey, can't sleep,

need some Ambien.

Here you go.

Oh, here's some Selenor.

Here you go.

Here's this.

Here you go.

I mean, it wasn't, they weren't giving me everything I wanted,

but they were definitely, you know.

Right.

I could get it.

What made you raise your hand?

What made me raise my hand?

What made you raise your hand and say, enough, I want help. A couple of things.
The, what got me out of Columbia is I went home to visit my family. And when I started ODN, I would call my dad.
And me and my dad are really close. And I would tell him, hey, dad, I need to get the fuck out of here.
I'm not going to make it out of here. I wouldn't tell him what I was doing.
But he knew. and he was worried.
And I went home to visit him in a super small town in Missouri. And I don't even know what happened, man.
I know me and my dad were supposed to go to a Cardinals baseball game the next day,

and I must have blacked out.

You OD'd again?

You took the drugs with you?

I blacked out.

You were traveling with them?

Yeah.

I would bring them everywhere.

I couldn't.

Shit.

I can't sleep without them.

I can't sleep without them.

Oh, these are prescriptions, so you can take them through an airport?

No.

You weren't taking, like, Coke and stuff like that? No no no uh drug trafficking yeah but um but i would yeah i would just i was like a walking pharmacy for benzos and opiates and um and sleeping pills and i woke up and my dad was standing over my bed and I, he was like tearing up. And I, I just could tell he was like, he didn't know what to do.
And, um, and he wanted me to get some help. And so at that point I wasn't going to get any help, but I was like, all right, maybe I should like move out of Columbia.
And so I did. And then, uh, and then the second kind of wake up call was, uh, my suicide attempt.
Uh, again, don't really know what happened. Uh, I was at blue martini in Boca Raton, Florida.
and the next minute i'm upstairs waking up uh in my bed alone and my whole house smells like gasoline came downstairs saw a glock on my bed or i'm sorry on the couch uh which i never and it's not not the Glock that I carry or carried for personal defense. It was something that I had pulled out of a safe.
So probably was going to do something there. And then.
But you don't even remember that. I don't.
And then I walked out to my garage and I touched the garage door and I was hot to the touch. And was like oh fuck what is that is there a fire in there and um i remember thinking if i open this door and there's a fire in there it's going to get a big rush of oxygen it's probably going to fucking kill me so i opened it and god and nothing happened but my car was running in there and uh i drove uh an audi a8 at the time and seat was all the way reclined back so i i pulled in the garage closed the door left the car running decided i was lights out let the seat down somehow i fucking woke up the it was so hot that the uh exhaust melted a hole in the fucking gas tank and the gas tank was leaking onto the exhaust uh muffler wow and there was like a little bitty like fire in there.
So, um, so I called my best friend, uh, Dave Rutherford and kind of told him, you know, the situation I was in. Then I called, uh, a really good friend of mine out of Boston who helps veterans.
Um, she's like an angel to a lot of people named Peggy Matthews. And then I called my therapist in Boca and they were all like, yeah, you, that's what that was.
So you think you pulled in, prepared to do it, and then something got you up and you just went upstairs and went to bed

and just don't recall that i think that was god and probably fumbled around the safe and got the gun out and i think i thought about it this is what happened pulled in the garage um had an argument with somebody that um i cared about a lot and then left the bar pulled in the garage garage, was going to kill myself there, went into the, into the living room, pulled out the gun, took all my clothes off on the couch, and then probably passed out there and then went upstairs to my bed at some point at the night. And, um, so that was another wake up call.
And, um, and, um, so i made a promise to my therapist that i wouldn't drink um vodka anymore and so uh i had i had successfully transitioned to wine wow and um so then and i was good you know it know, I started getting my life back together.

I quit all the benzos.

By yourself.

You were actually strong enough to get off of those by yourself.

I got off all the benzos.

Because those are really tough.

For the most part, I got off all the benzos.

I had my emergency stash.

So, yeah.

And then I met my wife, who's been sober for 14 or 15 years now. And, um, and that obviously helped a lot.
And then, and then, um, in the last three years, what really, you know, what really like did the trick was, um, psychedelics. Yeah.
That I'm going to go down that road because you went out of the country to do this and it wasn't just the psilocybin. You did other, other treatments.
Yeah. But I remember you describing it as pretty instant, like meaning the, the, the impact of the treatment and came back and just sort of knew the difference between what was poison and what wasn't and you said that's poisoning me that's poisoning me that's poisoning me but you just were clear about it and um so tell talk talk a little bit about that journey because clearly you are in a very dark place.
Yeah. So, yeah, I just, I kept interviewing.
I mean, you know, my interviews, I interview a lot of former colleagues and warrior elites, we'll call them that. And so, you know, in my interview process, I talk about, we do a life story.

This is how you grew up.

This is what you experienced in combat.

This is how bad it got.

This is what got you through it.

And then we talk about what they're doing now, their business, to help elevate that.

And so in these interviews, the first guy that I talked to was Eddie Gallagher,her who had brought up psychedelic therapy and i was like huh this shit sounds like it's for hippies and um yeah and then another guy came on to talk about it and i was in it it and then another guy came on to talk about it then um you were in the thick of it then when you were even yeah wow and so then uh i mentioned dj earlier dj uh interviewed him and and uh he was kind of like it was sinking in but after i interviewed him um he had he was like hey you know i know you're considering this like you should really fucking do it, man. Psychedelic stuff.
It works. And I understand, I understood some of the science behind it at this time by now, too.
So, so I booked, I booked a trip and, and went down to Mexico to do an Ibogaine and 5-MeO therapy treatment. And how are those done? IV? No.
You go, so 5-MeO you smoke. It's a toad venom.
The Sonora Desert Toad, I think, is where it comes from. So you just.
I always wonder who figures this shit out. I know, right? Who, like, found the first toad it's like hey frankly you know let's let's let's crush him and smoke him and see you know wow that really made me feel you know like ayahuasca yeah you know it's deadly poison i think a lot of people are saying the same thing about some of the stuff you're talking about no this is very true but like yeah i don't know and then so you smoke that um and ibogaine uh i think it comes from a root in somewhere in africa gabon or i can't remember but um but that is like it came in a capsule and so um the ibogaine experience was like 12 hours um i don't know how in deep depth you want me to go on that but was it 12 hours of like a trip like you were on mushrooms or lsd like a like yeah it's a trip it's a trip it's a trip and um i mean i've never done ayahuasca but a lot of some people swear by it some people are very people are very afraid of it.
You know, for me, the jury's still out on it. But just because I don't know that much about it, to say one way or the other.
But I have seen stories of people, excuse me, very credible people that have had these incredible journeys. Like, life-changing, like what I feel you're about to describe and where they were really in a dark place and really couldn't figure it out.
And first of all, thank you for being so vulnerable and really describing that situation like that. I know it must be tough for you to even think think about it um but they

literally they said it was like flicking a switch they actually were able to as they describe it almost get out of their own body and look at themselves and and be really honest with themselves and it was like they actually had an honest evaluation of themselves like i'm really fucking this up and I'm um you know these are the behaviors that are really causing me to stay in this constant wheel of um despair and disappointment and i'm not getting any traction in life and they said it was so clear yeah um so it's fascinating to me you know and you said you you know a little bit about the science. Is that of the psilocybin or the, the way, the easiest way for me to explain it.
And, and, uh, and I could be wrong, but this is what I've learned through my interviews is that, you know, the older we get the, I think it's obvious, right? The more, the older we get, we see it with our parents, right? The more set in their ways that they become. I'm that way.
I think we're all that way. But the way that it was described to me several times is that the neurons in your brain travel back and forth through the default mode network.
And so that's what, from the front of your brain to the back of the brain. And it wasn't always like that.
So right now for me and you, our neurons are just going, you know, back and forth, back and forth. And that's how they're communicating.
But when we were young, we had all these other neural pathways that these neurons were using to communicate and get information to wherever the hell it needs to go. Well, as time goes on, those pathways start to close up.
The neurons get lazy. They're like, oh, we're just going to go to the default mode network and we'll just communicate this way.
And so now you get stuck in your ways. You get stuck in that same hamster wheel.
That habitual pattern. And so to my understanding, basically what some psychedelics do is they actually put a block in that default mode network.
So they're not just going back and forth anymore. Now all these neurons have to find new pathways or reopen old pathways in your brain that haven't been used in years and years and years wow and so you so these neurons are are so it's opening it's it's literally unlocking your fucking brain wow and did you feel that that was going on during this 12 hours were you frightened or paranoid did you feel like terrified or like your life was going to end or anything like that i think calm i was pretty calm i mean um were you aware of it yeah like it's not like so that's the other thing is is uh they i was i was a little nervous that i would wind up in some type of mental or hallucination.
Yeah, like a persistent agitative state or something. Yeah.
But, but, you know, you're, you're, you are wired up to an EKG and an IV, but that's to get you out of something if, you know, if something goes wrong. and um and, and so, so you can be in the middle of your experience, having your experience and then, you know, the nurse or the doctor comes around and like shakes you and they're like, Hey, you're doing all right.
And you lift up your eye mask and you're out of the experience. You're like, yep, all good, buddy.
Going back in. Yeah.
Really like that. It is like that.
It is like you snap out of it. You know what I mean? That is wild.
It's almost, I mean, for me, it was almost like, it was almost like I had to concentrate to get into it. And if I want, you know, because you got to surrender to it.
It's 12 hours. You got to take a pee break and all kinds of stuff.
So, yeah you you can you can like snap out of it sounds like you kind of liked it or you were curious about it i was like yeah i can tell you know you you put the mask back down and you're like i want to see where this goes yep yeah yep and you know i i saw a couple things but i didn't like relive any super traumatic events. It was more like the way I describe it is it was like it was like I had two rows of TV screens going through my like.
Vision with my eyes closed. And so it was just lines of them.
And in each TV screen was like something that had happened in my life and there was there didn't seem to be like any it wasn't in chronological order it wasn't like from age you know uh from birth to now it was just a bunch of it was like somebody just put a bunch of life events on a deck of cards shuffled them up put them in a line and said hey we're gonna send these through sean's brain and so there was shit that was like stuff that had happened with my dad back in the day stuff that happened in iraq stuff that happened when i was a teenager stuff you know and it was did you feel like you're like i'm seeing that i remember that, but it was weird because every time I would try to jump into that specific experience,

like, oh, fuck, I remember that. I want to relive that.
Or, oh, that was any time I would try to concentrate on any specific event, everything would go away. Oh, dude, that's the ultimate torture.
Yeah. So I would have to concentrate on not trying to concentrate on any particular memory so that they could just all filter through and and uh i don't know what the hell that means i don't either i mean it was stuff that was that i hadn't thought about in in years but it was accurate these were vivid memories memories.
Like, you were like, I definitely remember that. Yep.
You know, that was my best friend. I forgot about him.
Like, you know, that kind of stuff. I mean, I forgot I had that girlfriend in college.
Like, wow. It was almost like my brain was just sorting through, like, thousands and thousands of memories.
then there was like some um stuff that just still doesn't really make sense to me like some fear and loathing in las vegas type shit like it was walls of stuffed animals and i was on some fucking horse like it was weird yeah i don't know what that was but uh woke up there so that was about a 12 hour experience and um woke up went downstairs

you have a gray day they call it a gray day after it's like the worst hangover you've ever had in

your life and um like actual headache pain horrible dizzy really vomiting like horrible just wow yeah and that lasted a day i mean yeah and i got up to go to the bathroom and i looked at my eyes and i remember thinking like my eyes look different and uh and they looked lighter and um and uh and sure as shit i came home from that and one of the first thing my wife said to me was, your eyes look lighter and the whites of your eyes look whiter. So it wasn't just me.
And so after that, though, we did the Ibogaine. Then after that, you have your day off and then you do the 5-MeO-DMT.
And the 5-MeO DMT, I mean, that is a very short experience, maybe 15 minutes tops, but the most profound experience of my entire life. Really? It was, and I don't say that lightly lightly even more profound than the one you just described more profound than my kids being born like it was so intense and so revealing uh i it's i mean i still remember it like it's it's a death experience so for me is it something you'd want to do again i've done it a couple times since really but it's i wouldn't say it's a good time you know it's not like uh because you said a profound experience meaning like this stands out to me yeah yeah this is so you've had some experiences too i mean it's a death seal and a father it's a you you die that's the only way to describe it you die you don't think you're dying you know you're you die you think you're dying like nobody can convince you otherwise it's not like i'm actually i'm paranoid you know uh pull me out

of this no it's i'm fucking dying and i'm like nobody's there's nothing that can happen and so but you're conscious but you're aware that you're dead so you accept that you have a that's pretty much i know it sounds really, but once you accept it, is there, is it, is it the profound sadness of the things you didn't get done in your life? No. The things you didn't say.
Okay. It's the complete opposite of that.
So when you're dying, it is, it's, they call it an ego death, but you. First you kind of go through, and this all lasts maybe like 30 seconds, maybe.
But you. First you go through the holy shit, I'm dying and there's nothing I can do.
And then it's, and then it's, oh shit, who am I leaving behind? I can't leave them behind. And so for me, it was my wife and my, I think my son was like six months old.
It was right around six months, six months old at the time. And so I

just like was grasping on for anything to try to, to, to try to live for them. I was like, I can't fucking leave my wife and kid here.
This place is a disaster. And, and, but you really, you think you're departing and then eventually you do give up.

But I will say like. And, um, but you really, you, you, you, you think you're departing and, um, and then eventually you do give up.

But I will say like, you know, at the beginning you'd asked me, you know, about, uh, combat experiences where I thought I was going to die.

And I've been through a ton of those, but nothing like this.

Really?

This was more profound than that.

Wow.

You are, you've accepted that you're either dead or you are about to die.

Yeah.

It was truly accepted.

I'm going to go, all at once. And, and then you, I don't think any, everybody can get to this because I know I've recommended this to everybody that works for me.

I've recommended it to all my friends. What it's done for me is just so profound.
Even though the experience itself is horrible. Yeah, because of what happens on the other side.
And so if you can get to the point where you can muster up enough courage to just die, then you, like, fucking cross over into this new realm. And once you surrender and say, okay, God, I'm ready to go.
And the minute that that happens, like, like you cross over and man this stuff sounds weird and i always thought this shit was all for hippies but it's not and uh but you know you hear people talk about energy and that person has a bad energy and that person has a good energy and energy is everything.

You see that if you come out the other side.

It is, I mean, a lot of people do it on a blindfold and a lot of people say that they see,

they go through a wormhole, they see the Big Bang,

they see family lineage,

they see friends that have died in combat.

You know, I wanted to do it without the eye mask.

And I remember looking out over the ocean down in Mexico.

And I remember every time I do a psychedelic experience,

it's always very, I don't get a whole lot of visuals. I get a lot of intuition.
And I could see energy flowing from islands to the ocean, to the beach, into the air, up the trees and the leaves. And it was, it was, was it was you hear a lot of people say oh we're all one everything's connected there's a oneness there is a fucking oneness man like really you can see and feel intuitively the flow of energy of positive energy And, and, and at the same time, I, I, I could feel and hear like the earth's vibration and you are just, you are so in tune with nature, God, whatever you want to call it the universe i mean it's if any evil any negative energy any evil came into the into your field of view it would it would stick out like a spotlight in the darkness and um and it it you know and on the other hand it makes you realize that there is definitely uh life after death there is there is we're all going somewhere yeah and um now are you a man of god are you absolutely okay are you yes good for you yeah um saved a promise keepers convention 20 1994 however many years ago that was what's that 1994 i got i got saved at a promise keepers convention i went awesome yeah um in 1994 i was in grad school and it was in soldier field I gave my life life to the lord and uh it was a they used to have a movement called uh promise keepers might still be around um but my lawyer tricked me into going to this it was it was a christian men's event i didn't know that he told me it's like a motivational thing to go see these motivational speakers and it was a um this movement called Promise keepers.
And I'll just never forget me. I, I joined hands with 70,000 Christian men and started to say the Lord's prayer.
And I just fell apart and went down to the stage and gave my life to Christ. What, what, why did your attorney think that you needed to go to a, Because he was a really strong Christian guy.

And... to Christ.
What, what, why did your attorney think that you needed to go to a, cause he's, but he was, he was a, you know, really strong Christian guy. And, um, and, uh, I thought I was fucked up, but after your story, I feel pretty good about myself.
I feel actually really good. I'm just kidding.
Um, you know, um, yeah, I was in, I was, I was in grad school school and you know i was just typical you know self-centered and you know i wasn't doing anything crazy we was partying a little bit i was you know i was going through grad school and um had a decent relationship with a girlfriend at the time and um ended up uh becoming my wife back then and um he he just was a really powerful Christian. He was like, hey, I want you to come to this event.
I think you really love it. He's a motivational speaker.
He's so inspiring. And I thought it was going to be like David Goggins kind of on stage telling you to get your shit together.
He wasn't around then. So I was like, okay, you know, I'll go.
And it was a very profound experience for me. Man, good for you.
But I didn't mean to interrupt you, but so you say you're convinced now that there is something on the other side. Yeah.
I mean, I didn't, I'm a believer in jesus and um amen so and uh but at that time i just realized it honestly like it i it made it took me this sounds weird because it made me a better person but it it kind of took jesus and god out of the picture for me not that i was like some stand-up Christian man or anything back then. Obviously, I wasn't.
You put a few bumps on you. But I was like, man, I always wondered about this.
Now I know that's not real. That's what I thought.
But coming out of that, you know. Gosh, you must be so profoundly sad.

Like, in that moment.

Yeah. But, I mean, I did feel the presence of my best friend, Gabe, who died.
He was down in Columbia with me for a while. Another SEAL that I worked with at the agency as well.
But anyways, I got home and I told you that my wife the first thing she had noticed was uh my eyes were like my uh were a lighter brown and my whites were whiter and and and i went down there to be more in the moment too with my uh son because i was i'm a dad now and uh you know i know a lot of business people struggle with this how how do you know i'm in love with my business i'm sure you are too and so it can it can be a challenge to turn it off at night and and be in the moment with the wife and kids right and uh and that bothers me when I can't do it. And there's always something to do.

Yeah.

And it bothers her too.

It took me right back into the moment.

I was able to shut it off.

It made me more,

all these weird things happened

that I wasn't expecting.

It made me way more efficient and productive.

I was getting like a week's worth of shit done.

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Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. Did you just realize what was not important? Yes.
Because I got to imagine on your, you know, deathbed, you know, people that are processing their life, they can't go back and redo it now. You know, it's at the end, but maybe you get a chance to consciously look back, but you got a chance to consciously look back and then go fix it.
And I think that's what sounds so profound about your experience, because I saw someone on Instagram the other day and it was a pastor who was delivering a graduation ceremony. And he talked about how many times he'd been at the bedside of a, a man or a woman in their last moments.
And he talked about the typical things that you would say, you know, they weren't like, Hey, bring my trophies by so I can see them one more time. Or can you wheel me down to the garage? So you, so I can be around the car collection? You know, I just want to see it one last time.
And, um, you know, remember, remember when we took that company public and we sold it, it was, he said it was, it was all just about love. Yeah.
And the only people that he, he said it was the one common thing, you know, like the only people they wanted around were the people that were really really close to them and maybe at that moment they appreciated them the most but you got the enviable opportunity to go back and maybe fix it yeah um so you're super efficient right um how about you know is addiction still knocking door? No. So that's, this is the, this is the, I did not even go down there to quit drinking because like I had said, in my fucked up mind, I was fine because all I was drinking was a couple of bottles of wine a night, not vodka.
Well, you're him and the Colombian Bam Bam and I've got some bam and i tell you you're in a good place you know yeah relatively speaking but um but you know i mean so i just i lost like all my addictions and so i was still taking adderall that's gone uh i was smoking cannabis to go to sleep. I quit that for about six months.
Now I'm back. Back and back.
Yeah, but sleep's like the one thing I just cannot. I'm going to hack it for you, man.
When I go on your podcast, we're going to take the clip from this podcast where you couldn't sleep, and you're going to be like, holy shit, I'm sleeping like a bear. got you brother um i'd still i'd still used um benzos here and there gone sleeping pills gone booze gone wow and there was sugar gone for about really for about six months and so sugar's back too sugar's back okay uh sugar and cannabis are back caffeine was gone for a long time uh still don't drink coffee now i'll have tea but but uh you know it it wasn't any effort either it was just it was just it was like my mind got a download.

And it was just, this shit's poison.

This is poison.

This is poison.

This is poison.

Don't do it.

And it wasn't like there was no urges.

There was no cravings.

There was none of that.

It was just, I'm done with this shit.

I'm not drinking anymore. And soentine's day will be three years wow since i've had a drink that's amazing man i mean um like i said for the for me the jury is still out on those i i don't have my arms around it enough but i've had people like yourself credible that have had these just profound experiences.

That is an amazing story.

And,

and I'm sure that you now know other people that have gone through the same thing that have had similar tons of them.

Wow.

It's incredible.

I know a guy,

really good friend of mine.

I get,

I,

I'm just going to say it cause it's helping so many fucking people, man.

But this guy was blown up in Afghanistan, uh, survived the worst.

He, he was in the worst car bomb that I've seen somebody actually lived through.

I'll put it that way.

Um, basically turned a Toyota Land Cruiser inside out and he lived lived through that. He drove over a...
He got hit by a suicide bomber. Okay.
Then, fast forward, then he got shot in the head in a road rage accident with a .38 Special, lights out in the middle of the road, still has shrapnel in his brain and so um i'm really good friends with him he was a he was a former green beret worked with him at the agency and and when he got shot in the head i i had gone down to help him help him and his wife um and he's just been struggling ever since well his, his wife called me and my wife one day,

and she was saying that he is bedridden five to six days a week.

He can't get out of bed when he can get out of bed.

His vertigo is so bad he has to walk around with a cane.

He can't go outside without sunglasses on, even on a cloudy day,

because his light sensitivity is so bad. We haven't had sex in over two years.
And I'm thinking, holy fuck, man. And I had told him about this therapy several times.
Called him up, connected him with some people, got him down there super fast. And he fucking walked out of that exact same experience that I did, left his cane there as a souvenir for these people.
He's like, I don't need this shit anymore. Went home, fucked his wife, doesn't need the sunglasses anymore, isn't bedridden.
This was probably about six months ago. Still doing great today.
Wow. That is incredible.
Yeah. Yeah.
That is incredible. I mean, this is so far outside of the ultimate human.
Um, that is, that is just incredible though, man. And you know, and I think my intellectual curiosity really wants to dig in.
I'm going to go down the rabbit hole on this because, you know, RFK, he posted a statement. I thought it was pretty badass.
And he mentioned psychedelics. And I don't know if you saw this, but he has said the FDA's war on public health is about to end.
This includes the aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectectin hydroxychloroquine vitamins clean food sunshine exercise nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can't be patented by big pharma if you work for the fda and you're part of this corrupt system i have two messages for you number one preserve your records and number two pack your bags your bags. Damn.
I love that guy. I love that guy too.
Like, uh, you know, because when you have people in, in your condition and your friend's condition, when we have tens of thousands of, you know, our, our military men and women that are permanently on the chemical hamster wheel, which is further destroying their life. And there's something that an adult can do to make a sound decision for their own body with a full understanding of the consequences.
Why are we preventing people from accessing these kinds of therapies when all they have is a persistent vegetative state, like what your friend basically found himself in. Yeah.
That's not living. I mean, you're alive, but you're not living.
Yeah. And, um, and I'm, you know, I'm a big fan.
I remember, I remember during COVID there was the right to try. And, um, you know, this was only for the people that were in the darkest parts of their life.
They were in the ICU, pulmonary fibrosis. They didn't have modern medicine, had nothing left to offer.
And things started parachuting in like stem cells and exosomes and, um, nebulized exosomes and people were coming off of ventilators and respirators and, and, um, and fibrotic tissue in their, in their lungs was actually becoming healthy tissue. Things like, like medicine would have told you could have never happened, you know, nerves remyelinating and, and things like that.
And, um, and I, and, you know, to me, the pace of medicine is, is slow because we have to move at the pace of the regulatory environment, which I totally understand and embrace because you can't have a, you know, a bunch of charlatans just putting random stuff into human beings. But, um, but it's really, you know, it's really profound to know that it can have that, that big of an effect on somebody's life.
Um, I want to sort of pull us out of the hole for a second. Um, I, I know that you've, you know, you got to be really happy with what what happened in this uh last election but but for you and military men and women that are in your group i mean what is what does the future look like for you what does it mean to you what is what does this election mean to you man as far as the direction of the country and oh but you i mean i could tell you you know when when when they pulled off the win trump and vance i gotta tell you man like i did not realize how much baggage i was running around with on a daily basis were you an angry little smurf oh yeah i mean i've been trying to i just couldn't i couldn't understand like what the fuck we were doing like like how are we gonna send the taliban 80 million dollars a week did you know that we were doing that no we were sending the taliban 80 million dollars a week in cash in cash for what great question then we already gave them 83 billion dollars a week a week maybe they needed the fuel week we did wow and and so i started you know sending up flags through my podcast on that got a lot of politicians involved to try to cut that funding

but basically what it was is is we we were sending basically we were funding afghan ngos or uh or non-profits uh without looking into them at all and so the taliban i can't remember the exact number. It was like 900 new NGOs, uh, since the, like within the first year of the Afghan withdrawal.
And those were all set up by Afghans. And so I don't want to go too far into that.
It's unbelievable. Sorry, not set up by Afghans.
You have leakage like that. Nobody, you know, you always you always hear about the, you know, the $5,000 toilet seat that made it through the government.
But to think that there's holes that big that could be filled. It's crazy, man.
Yeah. You know, and then to see people not want to give it any light a day because it makes their guy look bad.
It's like, do you know how many people are going to die? Like 9-11 was a $500,000 budget. We're sending them $80 million a week.
How the fuck do you think this is going to turn out? Yeah. You know, and it was that.
It was the border. It was, it's Ukraine.
It's, I don't even know why I'm saying was, because all this is still going on, but it's our power grid was it's ukraine it's i don't even know why i'm saying was because all this is still going on but yeah it's it's our power grid it's the chinese state it's it's our our our um the hell am i trying to say our uh the supply chain you know do you know about the power grid and how vulnerable that is on water supply? It is unbelievable how, you know, I'm not a doomsdayer, but I am in an off-the-grid place in Colorado that's solar-fed electricity, glacier-fed spring water, well and septic, no bunker, but we've got our own little 50-acre slice of paradise out there. And I i'll tell you what i'm happier out there than i am in this beautiful place in miami yeah um and it's super basic you know i got a freaking you know i've got a propane stove and little fox that comes onto the you know porch every night i get this freeloading deer they eat my flowers every day um and it's just it's amazing at the razors that you just rage around the mountain they had a shooting range on the back of the property and um it's at 10 500 feet when you spend the summer up there and you come back to miami to sea level you feel like you know yeah you just got limitless pill you know yeah it's my workouts for like four or five weeks are credible it's like like simplicity.
It's so asleep. Yeah.
But it's, it's, it's simplicity. I was talking to actually Devin Levesque about this and he's got this incredible micro farming concept that he's building these communities around, um, you know, animals that are, you know, being raised and then, um, you know, turned into food and, and raising your own vegetables and, and, you know, growing your own food and building a community around it and having these membership clubs that are actually built around sort of getting people back in touch with nature and into a community where you're just doing the basic sauna, cold plunge, you know, conversation, clean, um, and in, and an environment where you're back in touch with nature.
And, um, I so identify with that because nothing makes me feel better. None, none of all this fancy equipment, I probably got a million and a half dollars worth of equipment in this apartment, but then put on a 20 pound rucksack and and going for literally a four mile walk in the woods yeah um not even kidding like i get back from that and i tune into myself and i'm like holy shit i feel amazing i'll put on a heavy vest and a pair of boots and i grab the water bottle and just did this little four mile hike hike.
And I wasn't even trying to, like, you know, bust my own balls.

I wasn't trying to push myself so hard to, you know, to, you know, even improve my fitness.

It's just walk in the woods with a 20-pound rucksack.

Yeah.

And, you know, you don't realize how simple that is.

And, you know, there's a lot of evidence now that exercise is more impactful than SSRIs for treating, you know, depression. Like they say, you want to, you want to fix somebody's depression, push them in cold water.
Um, right. Push a sad person in cold water and see if they're still sad when they get out, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, and it just reminds me so, so much how, um, you know, just getting back to the basics can be so profound.
Can I just, can I say this?

We were talking about, you know, what the election meant to me.

Yeah.

And I just want to say, you know, that I think part of the reason we got to where we were

is because people in this country are scared to tell the truth

and to stand up to shit that they don't like i agree and here we are now right we got through that four years which was a fucking disaster and but you know what it was it was people like you and people like me and rogan and lex friedman and all these podcasters who, I can't even say all these podcasters. We were able to get around the media.
A small handful of podcasters who don't care what people think of them and aren't scared of what might happen for just asking, and Tucker asking questions, just asking questions, the right questions, and standing up against the shit just from talking on a podcast, you know? And so, and I think it's podcasts that pulled us out of this because the mainstream media was putting out garbage. I mean, it was, still is.
I just saw an announcement today of a reporter that just announced he's going to write a hit piece on me did one on rogan one on uh joe dispenza did one on uh like huberman and ag greens and now he's like you know just made the announcement that i'm his next congratulations yeah i know so i feel like i kind of won the lottery i'm like wow somebody actually wants to put my name on that do a whole journalistic. But what I know.
So I feel like I kind of won the lottery. I'm like, wow.
Somebody actually wants to do a whole journalistic. Do it on both of us.
But what I want to say is, I mean, we're all still here. None of us are in prison.
None of us are dead. Our businesses are all exploding because we did that.
And so when it starts to get tough again, don't be a fucking pussy and speak up and say. And say what's on your mind.
Yeah. And maybe we won't wind up here again because that's what happened.
I think that's a very valuable lesson learned. Look, this has been amazing.
I wanted to make sure that before we close things out that I talk about your, what's a day in the life of your daily routine look like now? I mean, because the drugs and the alcohol are gone. The benzos are gone.
The Adderall is gone. All of those things that sort of blurred the lines between daytime, nighttime, reality, and fiction.
Those are, those have all moved out of your life. You got two beautiful kids an incredible marriage I hear you speak about your wife and you hear you

that you went through when your son was born um so what is it what is it what is a day in the life look like now i mean do you have a cold punch routine do you have a morning routine do you have a exercise routine i have a light exercise routine but uh i think a navy seal would have a pretty intense exercise routine but you feel like you exercised enough back in the day that you're good pretty much you banked it but um you put some deposits no i do i do a light workout every morning um and then to be honest with, Gary, me and my wife are really trying to just figure out our big goal this year was health. That's awesome.
I'm glad to be a part of that journey, man. We have tried to – I mean, we don't know where to look, man.
You know what I mean? And so we've cleaned the diet up, started going to a natural, what are they called? Naturopath. Yeah, naturopath doctors.
I don't know if you've, I'm not plugging them, but it's helped me a ton. The Yuka app.
Have you heard of the Yuka app? It's like this app you put on your phone. You can pretty much scan just about anything.
Oh, yeah, I've seen that. It tells you what the contents of the grocery are yep yeah i didn't know it was called yuca i have seen that before it's actually pretty good tells you the additives what the additives do to you yeah and so i mean we've just we found that app we went through our entire kitchen in like one night so good scanning everything throw just about everything out all the shit we thought was healthy turns out is horrible for you yeah um so we started doing that um some we're really just trying to clean it up man and figure out i mean it's like every day now i feel like i hear somebody you know dying of cancer or highest rates of childhood cancer you know history it's it's it's almost a one in two now so we're trying to clean it up you know and and i think we've done i know we've done a really good job because i'll taste foods that i don't eat anymore after doing this for six to nine months and i'll taste the fucking chemicals in there yeah no devon and i were literally talking about how your palate changes and like when you eat whole foods you crave whole nutritious foods and um without going too deep down the rabbit hole of the science behind it but we have a hormone in our body released in our gut called glp1 and essentially it's the it's the satiation hormone it tells us that we're full and you know big pharma also makes it um semaglutide you know wagovia zempic but you you you can raise that in response to really whole nutritious foods like what we had in the kitchen before we came in here and highly processed foods you know unnatural flavorings food additives colors dyes you know, chemicals, synthetics, artificial sweeteners,

those don't satiate us or our body doesn't recognize them. So the brain doesn't think

you've eaten. And so it needs you to eat more because it needs the nutrients.
I mean, it's an

infinitely complex, but very intelligent organ. And it knows we haven't gotten enough nutrients.

So I mean, you're gonna eat again. And if you keep eating the same process shit, I mean, this is why

Thank you. organ and it knows we haven't gotten enough nutrients.
So, I mean, you're going to eat again. And if you keep eating the same process shit, I mean, this is why the obesity pandemic is what it is.
We want to push down on the obesity with weight loss drugs instead of pushing up on obesity with whole foods. You know, you look at videos from, we talked about this too, you know, from, you know, JFK, you know, like you look at high schools in the 50s and the 60s, play find the fat person.
Like they just weren't. They're all fit.
They're doing muscle ups and climbing up the walls with their little hand towels and running a mile and, you know, under seven minutes and everybody's fit and lean. And, and, you know, now we've just, you know, we're the sickest, fattest, most disease ridden nation in the world of all the civilized nations.
It's crazy. But, but this was, this is just incredible, man.
I'm, I'm, first of all, I'm very excited. And I, I, I take great pride in, in you trusting me to be a part of that health journey.
I'm excited to talk about that on your podcast. But before I wind down every podcast, I ask all my guests the same question.
And there's no right or wrong answer to this question. And it's what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human? What does it mean to me to be an ultimate human?

Because I think you're an ultimate human.

I think to be an ultimate human, you have to constantly think about how you're going to leave this world a better place than when you entered it.

Be a good husband.

Be a good father.

If you're not either one of those, then find somebody to mentor and make them a better person.

Wow, that's amazing, man.

Well, I mean, this has been incredible, Sean.

I want to have you back sometime, man.

Your journey is astounding.

You made a huge impact.

And my audience is going to absolutely love this.

So thank you for coming on, man.

I appreciate it.

And as always, that's just science, guys.