VDH’s Interview with Devin Nunes

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Hello, everybody.

This is Victor Hanson on the Victor Davis Hanson Show.

We are with our guest today.

I'm going alone.

Jack Fowler is not with me today.

Neither is Sammy Wink.

I'm doing one of our

frequent interviews, solo interview with the Trump Media and Technology Group CEO, Devin Nunes.

You know him, I think, nationwide as the chairman of the Select Committee on House Intelligence.

He was my congressman for a number of years in the 21st, I think, 22nd district.

20 years you were in Congress, Devin?

That's right.

Almost 20 years, Dick Tara.

Almost 20 years.

And he lives about 24 miles away from me down the 99.

I'm near the 99.

He's near the 99, so we see each other a lot.

He's in Tulare.

I'm in the more impressive, prestigious town of Selma.

And we're going to talk to him today on a range of topics

from

the two social

network to, of course, the campaign.

And maybe we'll finish off a little bit because we both were involved in farming and agriculture.

And Devin has been heavily involved as well as his job at Two Social and Viticulture and winemaking.

I want to take a break just for a second for our advertisers and I'll be right back.

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And we're back.

So Devin, thanks for coming on.

What's the status of True Social right now?

How would you assess your role in this very competitive market?

Well, Victor, thank you.

And obviously I'm a big fan of you and your show and appreciate our friendship and your ability to not only mentor me, but also my daughters all love when you and your wife come over for dinner.

So we had a wonderful dinner a few days ago, which was a lot of fun.

So I just want to thank you for having me on again.

And congratulations on the success of this great podcast.

As you know,

when I left Congress, the president had at President Trump asked me at that point, everybody, he was kicked off of every social media platform.

I had been shadow banned.

Millions of Americans have been kicked off of essentially every platform.

The only platform that was out there was Rumble, which is a YouTube alternative at the time.

And he

called me and knew that I talked a lot about this.

And you may remember in my little book, Countdown to Socialism, that came out in 2020.

Yeah.

I actually, without wanting to, but I predicted that these social media companies would come in and ban millions of Americans.

And little did I know that they would actually ban the president of the sitting president of the United States while he was still in office, that that would happen.

You know what they did to Parlor.

So I was one of the first,

you know, kind of prominent people, first member of Congress to be on Parlor.

Same goes for Rumble.

Rumble was a small video company.

I was the first to start posting my podcast that I used to do more regularly.

Now

I do it occasionally now, but I have a lot going on, so I don't do it as often.

Victor, but

this was a very dark time in America back in 2021 when all that happened.

I still say the worst thing that happened in modern history is when some 30 companies across the United States, all ones that everybody has heard of, looked at Parler, said, okay, Donald Trump, we're going to kick him off of Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, et cetera.

Oh, wait a second, we forgot about Parler, which everybody made fun of, but it had several million users on it.

They called it a right-wing place.

And they said, oh, crap, Trump's going to be able to go to Parlor.

so 30 companies at least basically wiped parlor off the map in a matter of days whether it was being kicked off of all the app stores uh no access to cloud service etc etc that was

yeah amazon app amazon apple um facebook and all that it ruined it it ruined a billion dollar company over overnight and you we both knew the original creator of it rebecca mercer and uh it really was too bad.

But then you came in as an alternative, still as an alternative.

But my question is,

so nobody expected that the worst, and I would say it was the worst social media, it was one of the most, it was probably the most

used

social media conveyance, Twitter, but it was Jack Dorsey and San Francisco people running wild in that office.

And you guys kind of of came on the scene as an alternative.

But then, lo and behold, to everybody's amazement, Elon Musk buys it for 40-something billion, twice probably what it was markets value.

And then he opens it up in a manner that you guys are.

And then he has this political metamorphoses.

I don't know if that's fair to him, because he was never really a hardcore leftist, but he was either leaned a little bit toward the Democratic side or he was apolitical.

But then he became an enthusiastic Trump supporter and he opened and renamed X.

And now

is it parallel to yours?

Is that a rival?

I mean, how could you ever anticipate that your

petition would come from

a friendly source like Musk?

Well, we're very different.

I mean, X is owned privately by Elon Musk.

And by the way, we supported Elon Musk buying Twitter.

I think at the time, both the president and I said something similar, but to the effect that anyone's better than the lunatics that are running it now.

But, you know, we are truly, our company is more than just True Social.

True Social is the beachhead.

You know, we're there.

We're kind of the fortress.

Everybody said it couldn't be done.

But we developed this going back to what I was saying about the 30 companies.

We did it without any of them.

Matter of fact, the only place people that we have to essentially please are the app stores because you know we have to be in the app stores now the good thing for us is is that at true social we're very family friendly so we don't tolerate any type of

i i like to say victor remember the old rabbit ears uh televisions um back in the day if it's not something that you would see on your old rabbit ear television when you know when you and i were much younger we don't want to see it on true social so you know we are a home for free speech um the only home we don't rely on any other platform we built everything ourselves.

We do work closely with our partner, Rumble, which is a close partner of ours.

So, you know, we created this all on our own.

It's never been done before.

You know, you take Twitter and all these other companies that are out there,

they all have relationships with Microsoft, Oracle,

Amazon, AWS.

We have this.

solely built.

This fortress is all ours.

So we'll be here forever.

So we operate this very efficiently.

We're lean and mean.

We have a great team of people that have built this platform and we're global.

And so, you know, we'll be here no matter what happens to Twitter.

So keep in mind, you know, we're a mission-driven company.

We're now a public company, which, as you know, took, you know, nearly two and a half years to get that, get through that mess.

We won't go there.

That was another Biden special stopping us from becoming public.

But, you know, we have no debt, a lot of cash in the bank.

So we're going to be around a long time.

With Elon, we wish him the best.

But as you said, he overpaid for this thing.

He's got a lot of woke people still there.

He does things that we don't necessarily agree with, like community notes, because as you know, Victor, whoever's writing the community notes could be woke, could not.

There's no way to actually govern people.

And I think Twitter's

trying to do that.

So we're here for the long run.

But more importantly,

what we just built, matter of fact, we're just in the process of of it's it's all released to the public now but we have what we call truth plus which is a streaming platform so this is think of think of like youtube tv we have built youtube tv but all on our own all on our own rails we built our own cdn which you know content delivery network so We literally, when somebody streams in a, so think of like a TV show.

So Real America's Voice, your friend and my friend John Solomon, who has just the news.

You have a Steve Bannon War Room.

We have Newsmax 2.

We have OAN.

All of these traditional TV channels that you should be able to get on DirecTV or Dish or your Comcast account.

Well, for the most part, they haven't let those channels on or they kicked them off.

So we've built a home for all those people.

And this is even more amazing, Victor, because

what we've built here and we're now offering in the United States, not only is it superior technology and ultra-fast, we will now be a home for the OANs, the news maxes of the world, the Real America Voice, also religious channels that if they can get on

the traditional delivery networks, they have to pay an arm and a leg for it.

And then, probably most importantly, is we will this, these rails that we have built, this network that we have built, will be a home for the documentaries and the films that can't get in the movie theaters or can't get to netflix or amazon prime so we have really built now soup to nuts so if you're a if you just want to be if you're if you're small person you want to belong in a group on true social uh you don't really care about you just want to communicate on say cooking or farming or photographs we have great groups on true social if you want to follow Donald Trump or political people or polling, True Social is a great, great place for you.

But now we run full circle because we have now given a home to Newsmax, Real America's Voice, what America.

So if all these companies start to cancel them again, which could happen,

if Trump doesn't win this election, we all know what can happen.

I mean, they're going to go after Trump, they're going to go after Elon, and then they're going to go after us because we are the only rails out there that provide for those constitutional basic rights that we have as Americans for content to be, to get out there.

Everywhere else, you can be stopped.

What happens if Trump does win?

Does that change at all that

he

helped, this is the Trump media group, and now he's president of the United States?

What are the challenges, advantages, or disadvantages of that?

Well, obviously, we hope for the sake of the country and the world that Trump wins.

But, you know, look, I don't think it's,

you know, any exaggeration to say that Trump winning will definitely, I mean, we're

definitely will help True Social,

but

we have no debt.

We have a lot of cash.

We have an amazing group of shareholders,

over 600,000 shareholders that own the stock.

We're probably the only company,

I wouldn't say probably, Victor, and I would actually ask you this question, but I don't think there's ever been another company that is based off of a movement for basic American American rights and individual rights, where it's a publicly traded company where our mission is solely focused on making sure that we protect your constitutional rights.

So obviously we will benefit if as long as when President Trump wins, it'll be a big benefit to us.

And then also this is not any surprise.

I mean, we have a huge market cap and we are looking at what else in that patriot economy,

we've solved kind of the Twitter, Instagram, TikTok challenge.

one we have we have that we have the solution for netflix disney plus um

uh direct tv etc youtube tv we have that alternative that's built um and will only improve over the next few months so then we have to look at what else in this patriot economy should we be should we look at acquiring you know are there different companies out there that if treated properly,

because

maybe they're banned by the fake news and they're not woke enough.

And so maybe you can take a widget company utilizing both truth social and truth streaming.

And maybe that widget company fits nicely, would benefit not only from

those two

platforms that we have, but does it fit in nicely in terms of maybe it's a great place for them to advertise?

We're constantly looking at

what, if anything, should we acquire next to ensure that we meet this mission of making sure that we protect your basic rights as a citizen of this country?

Why don't we pivot gradually into politics?

But let me ask you a personal question.

So you were in Congress for nearly 20 years.

You were right at the eye of the storm with the Russian collusion.

In fact, I think it was you who first really detailed the actual relationship that Christopher Steele had with the left,

and et cetera.

And we went into that horrific period where the left and the news Adam Schiff, the whole thing.

And so after you came out of that, you were kind of a national celebrity and you, people were talking about, you know, you were going to be in Congress for 50 years.

So what

do you

go back to Washington?

Do you get on the phone?

Do you call up former colleagues?

What's your relationship with this life you had for two decades?

You know, because this company is out protecting your constitutional rights, like we talked about, and there's not another company like this, you know, we were also targeted by the Biden administration that stalled this company from going public, where they were keeping our hundreds of thousands of shareholders who had invested in this, what's called a SPAC.

It was a financing vehicle.

And they didn't let us merge so that we could have that access to capital and these great people could be part of our company.

So in the matter of that process, Victor,

we don't want this to be true.

I'd love nothing more than to not have to go back to Washington, D.C.

I think the city has gone downhill.

I think it's become very dangerous.

I mean, you've talked about it a lot, but the necessity was that I had to go and brief the different government agencies and members of Congress.

because it was this was unheard of that the sec the biden administration they're supposed to be helping a small company like ours that was a private company trying to go public.

And they're supposed to be protecting the shareholders of these companies,

which they were doing neither.

So, you know, we had a great effort that was that our shareholders participated in.

We worked with a lot of members of Congress.

So I don't know if it's fortunately or unfortunately, Victor, but I've had to spend

more time than I would wish in Washington, D.C.

and a lot of time on these issues that most companies don't have because we are seen, we are attacked daily by the left.

A lot of people say, well, what's it like to be out of politics?

You don't have to deal with them.

It's like, well, now we have to deal with them times a thousand.

So as bad as the Russia hoax stuff was where I stood up to all these bullies and fake news guys,

being that we're owned by President Trump.

You can just imagine, it's just like every single day it's fake news after fake news after fake news.

You know, it just, it just doesn't, it just doesn't end.

It shouldn't be that way, but we, you know, but we have to, you know, see the world as it is, not the way we want it to be.

And we have to run this company in a way where we are constantly fighting back.

And I think that's the one thing that my former colleagues in the House and Senate know in any of the fake news.

If you slander us, if you defame us, like, you know, we will go after you because we don't take this stuff lying down.

And, you know, we're, you know, we're a company.

We're a public company.

We're not, you know, it was all fun and games if you're attacking Donald Trump or, you know, other elected officials when you're attacking me, you know, you know, all the New York Times v.

Sullivan stuff on defamation.

But here, like, we are on this unprecedented attack, like as if we're a politician and we're not.

So we're, a lot of these cases are making their way through the courts that we've been attacked by the fake news.

And look, we have multiple lawsuits that are out there and we will be filing more because, you know, know we're not going to let our our company and our shareholders be treated as if you know we're some political you know some some politician in Washington DC we're not so anyway I know that's kind of a long long story but that's I've had to spend quite a bit of time in Washington so you have

in the old days the first term Donald Trump would go on Twitter and he would communicate, was it 75 million or so?

He had a huge audience.

So now, how often just if, so our listeners, how often does, does Trump

post on Twitter, say average day, day or week?

Yeah, on True Social?

I mean, he's on True Social.

I shouldn't say Twitter.

Yeah, all day long.

So

that's his primary mechanism of communication other than the routing.

That's correct.

Yeah.

He put some videos out on the other platforms, which, you know, remember when True Social started, and then I think what happened is after about a year, everybody said, oh, man, he's getting all the oxygen.

So they all let him back on the platform.

So,

you know, look, and I've said that, you know, this is important, and it's important for True Social also.

You know, we don't mind if President Trump goes and posts on TikTok or somewhere else,

you know, because

at the end of the day, it's a promotion for True Social.

Does he still go on Twitter?

He doesn't go on Twitter much.

He occasionally is on, he will occasionally post to the first one to let him back on.

on.

I believe I don't have this in order, Victor, but I think it was Facebook.

I think it went Facebook, Instagram.

Then I think YouTube let him on.

And then, I don't know, a few months after Elon bought Twitter, he let him back on Twitter.

But if you're somebody that follows Trump daily, where you'd go is to True Social.

Yeah, if you want to know what Trump is saying about everything under the sun, True Social is the only place you're going to see that.

The other platforms, it's maybe a press conference or a news interview or something like that.

I want to take a break just for a second for our advertisers and I'll be right back.

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And we're back.

Well, let's

pivot then to

politics.

We're now about a week out from the election.

Everybody is confused by the polls, and

you know them better than anybody.

But in 2016, they had under polled Trump in the swing states from two to four points nationally.

Oh my gosh, about five or six.

They told us that they wouldn't do it.

I'm trying to outline that this complexity and then I want you to explain it to everybody.

They said they wouldn't do it again, they being the 15 or 16 major polling group, maybe Rasmussen, Trafalgar, Inside

Advantage might be a little different.

But They did it again in 2020 and to a greater extent.

So they underpolled him by five or six points.

Then the left said, well, that has ceased now because in the 2022 midterms, they had it pretty correct.

I went back and looked at it.

That was true.

Then people on our side say, well, wait a minute, Trump wasn't on any of those ballots.

So they're so obsessed with him.

They are slanted to the left, but it's what, it's really Trump that makes them abandon their professional ethics and standards.

And now we're in 2024.

Right now, now, Trump is, I think, about a half a point ahead in the national polls.

That is interpreted in two different manners.

People looking at 2020 and 16, they say, you know what?

If Trump is actually ahead in polls that have been very unfair to him, then he's really

two to four points ahead.

And then the other side.

And then they also put an asterisk and says, but he's got to be two to four points

ahead

because of the fact that when these swing states and others that are going to be critical,

when they went to non-election day balloting, they went from 30% not voting on election day to 70%.

I'm just taking a figure, it differs by the states.

But unfortunately, the authenticity or the genuine wine

that was challenged, the rejection rate went from an average of 5% to 6% of the ballots were traditionally rejected, and that meant they didn't match the registrar's list, or they had incomplete names or addresses or no signature, or they came in way late.

That, though, declined by a magnitude.

So suddenly you're getting double the number of mail-in ballots and your

rejection rate is a tenth of what it was, down to 0.3 or 4.

Given all that, then people say, well, Trump's got to be ahead in the polls because of that factor that traditionally has maybe up until now favored the Republicans.

One more little thing, and then I'll let you make sense of it all.

Then there is this idea of momentum.

So, this week, before we got on this morning and most of this week, now people are saying, well, there's a little bump for Kamala Harris because Donald Trump, while he's ahead from

one to three points in Arizona and Georgia, North Carolina is tight, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania is tight,

tightening, Michigan, Nevada is very tight.

But what I don't understand is

while they are telling us that, they're also simultaneously saying states that were completely in the bag for Harris have shown enormous momentum for Trump.

We're not saying that he's going to win

New Hampshire, Virginia, or New Mexico,

but he's gaining traction there in a way we haven't ever seen the last eight years.

So my question is,

is that a nationwide phenomenon?

Why are these pollsters telling us that

the seven swing states are pretty static and Trump is not gaining and maybe he's eroding a little bit, but in states that are considered by the left not to be crucial, such as New Hampshire, Virginia, and New Mexico, he's making three, four, five point gains.

Doesn't make sense.

And I'll leave you to make sense of all that, what I just said.

Where are we on the poll?

Yeah, so you're, you know, there are, there are a lot of data points that don't make any sense and haven't made any sense.

But let me start with stating the obvious that nothing matters until all the ballots are cast, people get to the polls and vote, and you actually count the votes.

So let's start there.

So, but then back up a little bit.

And what the left has been successfully doing is they've been running a propaganda show, and the polls have,

some of the polls have taken part in that propaganda.

So

let's back up a little bit.

Biden

was a disaster, obviously has some type of dementia issues that are beyond his control.

Obama wanted Biden out a long time ago, didn't want him to run.

But finally, it was clear that after that debate disaster that Biden participated in, the poll sunk and every Democrat under the sun knew they were going to get completely wiped out if Biden was left on the ballot.

So there was a pressure campaign that I'm sure was very, very ugly, probably involved.

Our old friends at the DOJ that Obama runs, and I'm sure had some nice conversations because it was openly Biden's wife

and probably family members that were not wanting Biden to retire, wanted him to continue to run.

I'm sure Obama's friends over at DOJ probably had some conversations, I would guess.

And ultimately, Biden was pushed out.

If you look at the, it's important to not miss these little, because the fake news will kind of run propaganda like a cloud over everything.

But

here's what we know for sure.

When that happened, all of Team Obama that's been essentially running the Biden White House, that put Harris in there as vice president, that had supported Harris when she got dead last, had to drop out of the campaign when she ran for president in the Democratic primary.

Here's the dirty secret.

They didn't want her.

Obama didn't want her.

No, that's true.

And

for about five days there, and this is where you cannot underestimate Kamala Harris.

You can say she's a lot of things, but she is not stupid and she is cunning.

She's not.

And she has moved up quickly through kind of of the California style.

And you were referring to that period where even people like Joe Manchin within 24 hours thought that it would be an open convention for a brief window.

And he said, I might run.

And people were talking about Gavin.

And at the convention, Davin said, I was supposed to say this retroactively.

So you get the impression that people like Amy Kobucha or Gretchen Whitmore or Gavin.

or Joe Manchin really did believe

that Pelosi, Schumer, Hykemb Jeffries, and the other people, the Obamas, the Clintons, they had,

they were going to remove Biden, but they thought they would have, I don't know, a three-day free-for-all and come up with a younger, more dynamic candidate.

Because after all, she was considered the spiro agnobar era by the left.

She was completely the insurance policy for Joe Biden.

She was so bad.

But then, as you say, she was coronated

and that was, and then all of a sudden, the money poured in.

So to be, yeah, to be fair, what let's talk what really happened is, and we know this because it leaked.

All you have to do is go back and read kind of the fake news because you know what Obama's people were putting out.

And you're exactly right, Victor.

They were talking about a short primary, something that, you know, quickly gets done.

Maybe there'd be five, six, eight candidates.

And you're exactly right.

What would make the most sense is they would get somebody not in Washington, D.C.

that doesn't

inherit the Biden-Harris policies that have led to really, I think, what is an economic crisis in many areas of the country right now that are in a fool-out economic crisis with inflation and everything else.

So they would have been, and Obama knows this, they would have been much better off to have a couple governors.

I'm not sure Newsom would have been the right one, but you and I know that Newsom definitely wanted to run and would have.

Harris was cunning in her ability to quickly go to the Biden campaign people who were already pissed off, but more importantly, we're going to lose a lot of money personally, who had a lot invested because, you know, when these, when these guys run these campaigns, they make millions and millions of dollars.

I bet some of these top campaign people make $3 to $10 million apiece during these big campaigns.

So

when that was all going down, the Biden people, with Harris's help, quickly moved in and

came up with the concocted, oh, the Biden money can't transfer.

Well, that Biden money didn't matter.

It was like $100 million.

Now she's raised $2 billion.

And then

Jim Clyburn remember came in and said that it was going to be impermissible to remove a black woman vice president next in line and open up the convention.

That helped them as well.

Yeah.

So let's get to, so that's kind of what went down.

And then what happened was, is they said, okay.

Tim Obama is now stuck with Kamala Harris, who they don't want to be stuck with.

They put in a couple of

Obama's people in there to be advisors on the campaign, uh, working with the Biden people.

And then they went on an all-out blitz with what I would say is because, you know, she was negative in the polls.

Nobody even, people that knew her didn't have it, it wasn't favorable.

And like overnight, and I don't care if you ran, you know, you got on every magazine cover, which she basically did.

She was non-stop on a lot of news channels for, you know, several weeks.

But I'm sorry, Victor, that doesn't put you at 55% approval rating and a 10-point lead over Trump.

No.

So what you're saying is the poll, let me stop there for our listeners.

You're saying, and as somebody who knows how people poll, and I've studied polls, and we have people at the Hoover Institution that poll.

So a pollster then can make these decisions,

registered voters, likely voters,

as well as, well,

Democrat percentages versus Republican percentage, whether you're going to reflect that or onseen voters, or they have all sorts of intangibles that each one can add in.

And as Nate Silver says, there's thousands of outcomes that can be affected based on what you choose to put into the inputs.

And you're suggesting, I think I concur with you, that in this euphoria, a lot of these pollsters put in inputs, which they felt would lead to the expected result of showing momentum for her.

Exactly.

And

they need the momentum.

They needed the momentum.

For the money.

So the money comes in.

And then even with all that, Victor, even with all that phony, essentially, you know, propaganda style campaign with phony numbers, she was dropping in the numbers, even in their own numbers that they were cooking.

There were four or five polls out there that didn't, Harris came up a little bit.

Maybe it was tied.

I mean, it was definitely a closer race, but they didn't have these out.

Remember, what did they want to say?

The real clear politics average is outside the margin of error.

That's what they want to say.

Yes.

Because, you know, and they load up those polls.

They know which ones are in the real clear politics because that's kind of a

three or four of them that are really asymmetrical can really warp that average.

If you, if you have, you know, if they're outrageous, Trump down five points, that affects everything.

And they know that, and they're fast masters of that.

So, what, what,

so then we get the campaign, and we have this bump from from her.

And then

the money comes in.

The debate

with

and that debate,

I don't know if you can talk about it, but it seemed to me that

I wouldn't have done it if I was Trump for one reason.

One, it was on CNN.

Two, you'd never had an urban

ABC.

ABC.

No, I'm talking about the first one with Biden.

Oh, with Biden.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I'm just going back for a second to talk about the second one.

So he gave the first debate, and they got everything they wanted.

It was a stress test for Biden.

They never had any debate

take place before the conventions or the

formal nominations.

So then Biden melts down.

Then they have another one.

And of course, it's on ABC.

And as we saw, David Muir and

Miss Davis were completely partisan.

They kind of ruined the the reputation of the network.

And

she did get a little,

she got a temporary bump.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

She had canned answers that really didn't match the questions that were asked, but she baited Trump about his crowd size and everything.

And the optics, they felt, gave her a point or two.

for about a week and then but the sound clips that he actually answered the questions and she didn't by two weeks, that advantage had evaporated and they were about equal again.

Is that right?

Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it that it was clear when you go back and, you know, I watched that debate live.

And I hate these debates because they're just so become so ridiculous now with all the fake and phoniness around them.

But, you know, Trump really did.

He said this.

It was three-on-one.

And the fact, you know, and it was.

And it was rough.

A lot of people said, well, you know, that she won the debate.

And of course, within, and you know that this was cooked because before the debate was open, like somebody would have written 500 words, a thousand words.

You know what it takes to write that.

Victor posted like 30 seconds after the debate, Kamala wins, Kamala wins, Kamala wins, Kamala wins.

So they create this euphoria that she won.

And clearly they were beating, like they were just attacking Trump.

Like all three of them were constantly attacking Trump.

So it's easy for one to come out of there.

and say, my God, what the hell did I just watch?

And that was successful, don't you think?

That brought in a lot of money.

That was the idea.

They got a second surge of money.

They got all this media.

And then this strategy was established that, well, now we have a one or two-point lead.

We're just going to sit on it.

And we don't have to do any interviews, no town halls, no press conferences.

We got so much more money.

We'll just run out the clock.

And that was kind of the August.

And then finally,

I think you could say by the latter part of August, early September, that was no longer Bibled.

Trump was talking anywhere, anytime to anybody about anything.

He cut back.

Even their polls, and I think we'd agree that their polls means they're favoring her, started to show they were getting very close.

And then she,

in September and October, flipped and decided to go out with the Philadelphia interviewer, the Association of Black Journalists, Oprah, Dana Bash.

And at that point, I think Trump really started to get second win and do pretty well, don't you?

In conference.

Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think, I think, you know, Trump has been running an amazing campaign.

He's got great people around him.

He knows the issues.

This isn't eight years ago when, you know, he was a business guy getting into politics.

He knows, I mean, he says it and it's true.

I mean, he knows, you know, because he does it 24-7.

He knows every basically, especially those swing states, but he even knows a lot about the other states.

He's just, you know, a very professional,

you know, public speaker.

He's authentic.

He works.

I mean, he just works hard.

And she doesn't work at all.

And she relied on these fake, the fake polling and this whole kind of propaganda arm of the left.

And now ultimately, what happened was, is you had the polls were never right.

So Trump was always probably tied or ahead.

And then, and then you had kind of the basement, the base, you had two sides in the Kamala camp.

The basement people said, doesn't matter, keep her in the basement, don't let her out.

And ultimately the people said, no, no, we're falling behind the polls.

We got to get her out there.

And look, we know this because Obama's own people came out and said later, I just saw this a week ago.

I think it was Pluff, who is a

very, very dangerous and very good political hack for Obama.

He said that everybody rested based on those polls, which were never true.

I'm paraphrasing what he said.

But then don't you think

everybody kind of downplays internal polls, but internal polls, you do pay for somebody.

And if you pay to somebody to lie to you, it's not very good investment.

So the internal, don't you think the internal polls at this point were showing her down by two or one?

That's exactly what's going on.

So you had their internal polls were clearly showing what some of the other polls showed, that Trump was either tied or ahead.

And then you had, so now, but, you know, you learn and, you know, after the fact, so you had the, the Biden basement strategy versus the, versus the get her out in front of people strategy.

They had to do something.

And then Victor, what we've watched, which is now for about three weeks now, it's a little over three, I say about 22, 23 days, starting with that 60 minutes, which this was all choreographed, right?

It's on 60 minutes, show how great I am, go on Colbert, show how funny I am, have a beer with him or whatever.

then go on Oprah Winfrey or The View, I guess it's called, and

do all these shows and then basically do a two-week run of

totally produced propaganda that would then lift her.

It was what they were hoping for.

Instead, Victor, it's been the longest three weeks, the biggest disaster I have seen in my political lifetime.

And I'll venture to say this,

this country, God forbid, hopefully we stay a country over the next couple centuries.

This three-week period will be looked at.

There will never be another three weeks as big of a disaster because you could have picked any Democrat, Victor.

You could have just put all the Democrats from the House and the Senate, put them up on a big wall, and just blindly thrown a dart.

And that Democrat would be able to answer questions and do better on 60 minutes.

Let me ask you this, though.

I agree entirely with you, but let me ask you this.

If their internal polls matched some of the other more, I think, accurate polls, that she was down by a point or two

nationally.

And more importantly, he had caught up

after the euphoria had gone off and people saw how in-up she was.

Then you're saying she had this disastrous inability.

word salad, couldn't talk, lost her temper,

brain freeze.

And he, and you're putting it in a historical context.

It was one of the most fundamental collapses that we've seen, coupled with Trump at McDonald's, Trump,

the J.D.

Vance

still did a great debate.

Donald Trump, just the rallies, all going to Butler again after he had been shot.

So then Donald Trump surged, and she went, what do you think?

How would you calibrate that in data points in in your interpretation of real polls did he go then from one because of her performance and his

his i thought he you're right he he

in the last month he's waged a much better campaign than he ever has in his life and better than a lot of people ever have so do you think now he is one or two points ahead in the national poll

Well, look, that's so let's look at that because that's another important data point that I think you started with that that we need to cover here.

And that is, you know, there's these seven swing states.

And what doesn't make sense to me, and I think you were alluding to this at the start of this conversation on the polling,

it's almost impossible, Victor, to be

up in the national poll.

Like, I don't know, there's been, you know, I don't know, six or seven national polls where Trump is tied one, two, or three points ahead.

Okay.

But yet, in the swing states, and you saw this last week, I forget it was ridiculous.

I think it was a CNBC poll, that Trump was like, like the propaganda news was like, well, Trump's up two points nationally, but he's only up one point in the battleground states.

Now, look, I've been around a long time.

Like, those numbers, that's impossible.

You can't be up in the battleground or up nationally by two and only up one in the battleground state.

So, but look, what a lot of this comes down to is who shows up to vote.

So you can move an electorate two to 10 points based on just if the Republicans turn out.

And I've always believed that they're going to turn out at 2020 levels.

And I think that Trump has done, he's going to do better with the Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, young people, Jewish voters, union households.

So now

you have to take the 2020 vote that he's going to push out, plus all these other new voters are going to come to him.

And that kind of makes sense why he would be ahead

in the national polls.

But at the end of the day, it really is who shows up.

So now where do we sit today?

We don't have data from very many places.

But because of this now month-long voting that you and I are very familiar with in California, we've been doing it for a while.

Well, California actually has a six-week voting system where you vote for four weeks before the election and two weeks after the election.

But in a lot of these other states, Victor, they've been voting now for a few weeks.

And I will tell you where,

you know, I've never seen numbers like this in both Nevada and North Carolina.

So I've never believed that North Carolina is really that much of a toss-up state.

We've won it.

Trump's won it last two times.

Nevada, though, has been elusive to us where it looks like we're winning.

We're up in the polls and ultimately the union gets all the votes in in Clark County where Las Vegas is, and we always lose by 5,000 votes, 10,000 votes, 20,000 votes.

And we've had amazing candidates there that have run for Senate and governor.

Now, last time in 22, a Republican did win the governorship in Nevada.

But what we have are unprecedented numbers in both North Carolina early voting compared to 2020.

And we have the same in Nevada.

where it looks like, I mean, and here we are, I mean, we're only a few days out.

I don't know how you make up.

I would not want to be in that, I would not want to be a Democrat in Nevada or North Carolina today.

And that's where we have information.

So now

let me just add for a second.

And then you've got Nevada that he's crept up one or two points and is either tied,

I think in the aggregate real clear politics now, he's slightly ahead of Nevada.

And the same thing is true in North Carolina.

But what I, what I'm getting back to that original point, if that, if he, right next door down to the south almost is New Mexico, and he's gone up five points from, I think, down nine to four,

and right next to North Carolina is Virginia, and he's gone down nine to within three on some of the polls.

So

I just don't believe that these same polls can say in a safe blue state, he's made this enormous jump, but right next door in a key swing state, he's just stagnant, he's inert.

I think that they emphasize different criteria depending on the value of that particular state for the race.

Yeah.

And look, you have to also,

you look at the numbers that have come in from those two states, all right?

So that leaves five states left.

Clearly, they have a problem in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan because the Democrats that are running for Senate are all embracing Trump.

Yeah.

So, and that's been going on now for two weeks.

So they have a problem there.

Then you have the L.A.

Times, Washington Post, none of these, USA Today are not endorsing a presidential candidate.

So, look, all signs are this is trouble, but I just have to, you know, I would not want to be in their shoes.

You say signs.

What?

So, you mentioned the LA Times, Washington Post, USA Today, too, is not going to endorse.

Right.

And then you have

people like Tester, people like Casey,

and they are now emulating the Trump, or at least they're saying that they can work with Trump and they're responsible for some of the things that Trump did that were popular.

So what are they reacting to?

Are they reacting to a dead-even poll?

Are they talking to the DNC?

Are they looking at internal polls?

Are they looking at issue polls?

But they must have data that maybe we and the public, it's not disclosed.

that makes them because usually in a political campaign, you know better than anybody, when it's neck and neck,

then you double down on the difference between you and the other candidate.

But this time, when it's neck and neck, these people are saying, I want to be more like my opposite candidate and steal his positions to enhance me.

And that must be based on something.

I don't know if it's just the newspapers or Jeff Bezos, but there must be some.

There must be some sense or mem or something they think Donald Trump is going to win.

The betting maybe they look at the betting where he's gone up to 58 uh to for that that's that's quite striking i i can't remember i mean i'm sure there's a time in my kind of political lifetime

you know maybe back in 2006 when bush was uh

george w bush was in but i just can't remember of an actual seat uh where they where they threw and you know this is the president this is harris on the ballot democrat on the ballot in these states

i i just can't remember where you're essentially throwing that presidential candidate under the bus and aligning yourself with the presidential candidate i don't remember that happening uh and they don't want him they don't want him to they don't want him to to be show up biden's been orphaned but but i mean this is this is where they are picking trump the republican

over the the the the biden administration harris everybody um and running ads as such in states that are supposed to be the blue wall.

And across that blue wall of those three states,

Victor, they're literally running as if they were on Trump's ticket.

Yeah,

I've never seen that before.

I haven't either.

My point is, I've seen

a lot of polls that show the candidates equal or within two points.

But in every time, whether it was Romney for a while, got very close to Obama or George Bush and Al Gore, when that happens,

then they kind of want to get their base out to vote.

They double down.

And they're doing that a little bit with the fascist Nazi stuff.

But I've never seen what you're talking about where people appropriate their opponent's platform unless they have internal polls or they have experts that are saying to them, don't look at the equal polls.

Don't believe that you're a half a point ahead.

You're going to lose this race unless something happens.

Because there is a shift going on that she's taking you down

and you've got to separate from her.

You don't want her in your district.

You don't want her in your state.

You don't want to be seen with her or Biden.

And you've got to act as if these,

whether it's the border or crime or the economy, that you're on board with the MAGA stuff because our polls and our sense show that that is going to be a lot stronger than everybody says it is.

That's my conclusion.

Yeah.

No, I think that's I can't disagree with that.

And I'd just say the other, the only and the final point I would make is anecdotally,

you know, you just don't see any excitement out there anywhere for, I mean, if you for Harris, if you spot a, I was in Pennsylvania, I was even in Washington, D.C.

a few weeks ago.

Obviously, I spent a lot of time in Florida and California, and I've been on both coasts in Florida.

And I was recently in New York City.

I'll tell you, Victor, to find a, if you see a Harris walls bumper sticker or sign or flag, and somebody like me who's been in all these political races

for so many years.

You know, I started my first campaign that I was just a volunteer on was in 1994, which was a big year for Republicans.

I was at the university at the time and

worked on some campaigns, putting up signs and parking cars and doing all that good stuff.

And so I noticed these signs, right?

As somebody, when you go out there and you actually do this work, you notice signs, you notice bumper stickers, you know, you notice all that stuff.

And I'll tell you,

you would have better luck seeing a unicorn, a chupacabra, a leprechaun than you would seeing

a Harris walls, anything.

You just don't see it.

And meanwhile, you got Trump with,

it packs out the Madison Square Garden and has thousands of people along every block of New York City.

And this happens over and over and over again.

It's the

biggest political movement in modern U.S.

history.

My only copy is this by far.

I was sitting with my wife in 2020, and we saw this massive Trump

a week before the election, 50,000 people screaming.

Then they cut to a Biden,

and it was like a drive-in movie.

Do you remember those?

There were cars there because of COVID, and they were, there was like 50 cars, and they were honking the horn.

I said, this is,

but what I'm getting at is that was our first experience with mail-in early balloting.

So I have, and COVID.

So I have to assume that what you're talking about is more valid than it was in 2020.

It's kind of like more like 2016 when we didn't, because now,

even though it's this process of only 30% voting on Election Day, is the Republicans got wise to it.

And they're much more adept at registering voters, getting the vote out, but more importantly, knowing to how to get so many more people.

I saw today that more people have early voted in Nevada than

Republicans have than Democrats.

Is that what you're saying as well?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

The numbers in Nevada and North Carolina, look, if I was on the other side of that, just calling it like it is, like, I would not want to be in their shoes.

They got a mess.

I mean, it looks pretty bleak.

The Democrats.

You think that transition to new people at the RNC, like Laura Trump, really helped, don't you think?

I mean, look, Trump's just running.

I mean, Trump's running one of the best campaigns.

I mean, you have one of the best campaigns, like the best closing, the last five weeks, you know, of this campaign on the Trump side have been absolutely amazing.

And it helps because he's, this is his third time running.

He knows the issues.

He knows the people.

He's built big, broad coalitions.

But there's never been a campaign like this in my lifetime that is this far reaching.

And he's got this huge movement that he's built.

At the same time, you have the worst, we talked about it earlier, the worst.

three, four weeks of any candidate I've ever seen.

I don't think you'll ever see that replicated.

But I would just, just kind of the final point on the excitement anecdotally.

And you mentioned, I think 2020, let's rule that out for a number of reasons,

but all the COVID stuff that surrounds it.

But in 16, Victor, and you know this, Hillary had support.

Like she had, you know, a real that Clinton support base.

She had people that wanted her to win.

She had, you know, I still see Hillary bumper stickers around, you know, so, so Hillary had real support with out there with people that were putting up signs, doing that hard work, wanted there to be the first woman

president.

And look, and I think if she wasn't so damn lazy, and if they just didn't believe all their own fake stuff, she probably would have won if she just would have went and campaigned in Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania.

She was still campaigning.

New Mexico and Texas and places trying to get a landslide margin.

It's crazy.

Exactly.

And look,

just the next

shoes to drop,

you already named them, the only one I would add,

because things are so polarized now, I just don't see any low probability of winning anything on the West Coast, California, Oregon, Washington.

But I think there are four states to pay attention that potentially

looks like they're tightening.

And you mentioned them.

It's Virginia.

It's New Mexico.

New Hampshire.

I've seen some polling recently there that looks better, although I think that's hard because there's been a lot of people from Massachusetts who want to pay lower taxes and live in a Republican, traditionally Republican state, who moved to New Hampshire, have changed the politics of New Hampshire.

But New Hampshire, the other one, the fourth one, is actually Minnesota.

So, Trump was already doing well in Minnesota, like before Walls got in the race, then Walls got in the race, and everybody said, Oh, well, Minnesota's for sure gone.

Well, look, I've seen several polls there that have Trump down, you know, only four or five points.

Now, I think Minnesota is the hardest of all those to get to, but look, if we're sitting here less than a week out and we're talking about Minnesota, New Hampshire, Virginia, New Mexico, I'd rather be us than them.

Yeah, it would be as if right now they were talking about,

oh,

winning Oklahoma or Montana or Louisiana or something, which is not going to happen.

It's not going to happen.

Let's, we got just a few minutes left, Devin.

You were a farmer.

I was.

I farmed at one point with my brother 100 acres of Thompson's.

The only time we ever went to the winery is when the raisin price hit.

We grew Thompson seedless grapes that were in the old days before the labeling, it was kind of the bulk.

People just crushed it and added it to cheap wine.

And then I did a lot of table grape farming.

But you, while you're doing this, you have

made a wine

with a Nunes wine over near the Central Coast, about two hours from where I'm talking and where you live.

Tell us about

what it is, the label, where's the grapes come from?

How do you, what's going on?

Well, Victor, I appreciate that.

And you, you don't, because of kind of your, all the health issues, you don't get to partake of my wine anymore.

I know that you, you might have a sip now and then, but I don't like this.

My wife may know this.

Yeah, your wife, your wife likes my wine.

But I don't know if you know this, but I actually, when I was a kid, we farmed Thompson's also.

We had the same thing.

If the raisin market was down, you'd have to, you'd hope that the grape juice places would buy your, would buy your fruit.

Very, very tough, a tough business.

But, you know, look, I grew up just, you know, in farming, in agriculture.

You know, wine has been my hobby for a long time.

I went to school over at Cal Poly.

And in those days in San Luis Obispo, everybody knew Napa, but they didn't know Pasarobles.

They didn't know that central coast yet.

It was just getting on the map.

And you see there's some,

you know, Reagan actually is one of the guys that put that on the map with a guy named Gary Eberly, who was a former football player, who was one of the first to go and plant Cabernet Sauvignon over in Paso Robles,

who was a friend of Ronald Reagan.

And Ronald Reagan had his, his ranch was just in the neighboring county, in Santa Barbara County, you'll remember.

So I was going to school there when a lot of these grapes were just coming into production, these wines were just being made, and they focused on

the Bordeaux style wines, which are very good there.

But Napa really has

a leg up on and a head start over other areas of California on those wines.

And so,

well, I had this, I don't know, just this kind of dream.

And a few places would have these Portuguese grapes that were planted on the Central Coast, little pockets of them.

I had a couple of friends that were making some porch using Portuguese grapes to make wine on the central coast.

So I've had this dream of

eventually having my own label.

I got involved in some small wineries many years ago, just boutique wineries.

And so finally, my last year in Congress, I said, look, I'm not getting any younger here.

If I don't actually produce one of these wines, because it takes a long time, you know, you got to remember, and I was,

you'll love this, Victor.

I was supposed to do this in 2017.

That was supposed to be my first vintage.

And you know what happened in 2017?

The Russia hoax.

I was chairman of the intelligence committee, and I just had no time.

I just had no time to do it.

And finally, in 2020, at the end of 2020, a friend of mine that had some of these Portuguese grapes says, look, I'm getting out of this business.

Like, if you want this, you got to take them next year.

And so in 2021, which is my last year in Congress,

I took this contract over on these Portuguese grapes.

And Victor, that wine just came out a year ago.

So, you know, think about it, it takes a long time.

So I knew, you know, hell, if I don't make this wine, I'm never going to build a big grapes.

What varieties, when you say Portuguese, what do you mean by that?

So the main variety in Portugal is one called Torriga Nacional.

The other one is called

Tinto Rorige, which is also known as Timpernillo.

It's also a popular Spanish grape.

What would be a a couple smaller grapes?

What would be the red or white equivalent of these?

Not exact equivalent, but if the person was interested, what would it taste like or what would it be analogous to?

So what I, if, if you're a Cabernet drinker, Cabernet

Sauvignon, which is from Bordeaux, France,

originates.

Toriga Nacional is kind of the Cabernet

of Portugal.

Now, the flavor profiles are slightly different.

This is just really like rudimentary, but this is how I describe it.

On a Cabernet, you're going to get more of those red fruits.

With the Portuguese grapes, you're going to get a little more of the blue fruit.

So, more of kind of the blueberry, blackberry, boysenberry versus kind of the strawberry, cherry, etc., on the Cabernet side.

So, so, look, I have this great,

and it's been phenomenal.

The wines are great.

I have a wine club, um, Devonuna's wine.

So, you buy, you buy, you've scouted out these rare small tracts of Portuguese varieties, and they are grown somewhere.

Do they extend all over the Pasarobles?

Are they on Highway 46 toward the coast?

Are they off 101?

What area are they in?

Yeah, so

they're a little bit all over.

And this year, I actually found a couple other vineyards.

They're really hard to find.

But they're on both the west side of, west of Pasarobles, on a higher, one of the higher mountain peaks in what's called the Adelaide district

also in the Templeton Gap region and then even in Edna Valley Avila which is which is a cooler climate closer to the ocean which you're familiar with so I managed to kind of take all those grapes and then make these what I think are really unique blends of wine

and look it's my hobby I don't have a lot of time to spend on it but I've been working on it for so many years and how do you how what's it so you buy the land you contract the grapes to be delivered then you uh contract out with a winery to crush them then you have your winemaker who comes in and consults with you yeah so i have a

i have a massive team of me and two part-time guys

um one of the one of my part-time is a long-time buddy of mine actually his family was originally from visalia but he's one of the top winemakers in san luis obispo county mike siner he has a winery called signer Lavallee Wines.

So he's essentially, he's been my longtime buddy and friend.

And

me and another young guy who's more of the farmer, Connor, we all, you know, kind of just sit down every when I get over there, we'll spend an evening and we'll barrel taste all the samples and we'll put the blend together.

So it's essentially

a virtual operation where it then goes to a store.

There's a company that specializes in storing the wine,

And then they package the wine.

So it's all online.

So it's devinuniswines.com.

You go on there, you order it.

You can join my wine club.

And then

we ship out.

And this is an opportune time, Victor, because I don't have a lot of time to spend on this, but we ship out.

Matter of fact, it's going to ship out in a few weeks here.

So you have wine in time for Thanksgiving, Christmas, if you want to use them for...

holiday parties or Christmas gifts because you get a case of wine.

And I would say too, look, the wine is not cheap, but I would say that it's a lot less expensive, more, it's more affordable than Napa Valley wines.

And I would argue, especially when you consider both the Portuguese wines that I'm making and even the Cabernets, I'm making what we call the Patriot Cabernet and Patriot Reserve.

I would put, and I think you tried, actually, you and your wife, your wife tried the Cabernets the other night.

Yeah.

And she, and she really liked them.

I had to drive her home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we're doing something that's never, you know, never been done before.

We're making small lot wines of these very interesting varietals.

And it's something that I'm just passionate about.

And I hope that.

So if somebody wanted to buy some, they go online to Devon Nunas.

Devonunaswines.com.

Yep.com.

And then they're going to see bottles.

What is on the bottle if they see it?

So the Patriot, the Patriot has a little flag on it.

The style is made after like old, like it looks like kind of an old painted bottle, like it used to paint the labels on.

You've seen it.

Yeah.

And yeah, this year we have we have two uh patriot wines which are the cabernets and one uh portuguese blend and then we have wine from we have a little bit of wine still from last year from 20 and i say this year victor this is you know 21s i had three wines that i made i ran out of one in 22 we have three wines the good thing is is in and this takes so long but this year um

probably going to have when i say this year meaning 2024 which these wines won't come out until 26 and 27, I should be up to about four or five different wines that I'm going to make then.

Wow.

Well, we have covered Truth Social, social media, polling, the campaign, farming, and wine, and we're going to have to wrap it up, Dev.

And I hope you come back.

And I hope,

I just hope that we're in a very good mood a week from, and I think we will be.

I want to take a break just for a second for our advertisers, and I'll be right back.

And we're back.

Any final observations that you could leave our audience with

intangibles, inside knowledge, what they should do, voter,

I don't know, voter leave

is mail-in ballot.

You were an expert.

The bottom line is

I want to remind everybody when

people were being destroyed by left-wing voter harvesting, you had a really sophisticated get out the vote team in your last congressional race, didn't you?

Yeah, I mean, California, Victor, a decade ago, had one of the best systems.

You could vote absentee.

There was a good system.

It worked.

You had to sign up.

You had to get signature verified.

So if you were going to be out of town or people, and then it came that you could actually sign up to be a permanent absentee voter.

And as you know, that was a system that worked well.

It was very efficient.

All those votes, they had to be in before election day,

they all got counted and announced 8 p.m.

on the night of the election.

And so all the absentees had been counted, and then it was just the people that went to the polling place.

And California had a wonderful system.

When the Democrats got super control, they essentially made it so when you go to the DMV,

you have to sign up to vote, even if you don't want to vote, and they mail you a ballot.

So California went from the best system a little over a decade ago to the worst.

And so the last two elections that I ran, both in 18 and 20, of course, I was hated by the left as some, you know, because I was the one standing up to the Russian nonsense.

So, you know, they were spending, you know, tens of millions of dollars against me.

And I said, look, I don't believe in this.

I don't think it's right.

But they let you go out and harvest ballots, Victor.

You could get.

Anybody could go harvest ballots today.

You can go, you know, anybody from the United States, anyone around the world, you can go pick up ballots in California.

I don't care if you pick up one ballot, five ballots, a hundred.

Now, what do you

legally take them in?

Where do you get the ballot?

You just go knock on the doors, call people up and come by and pick up your ballots.

So as a third party, you go to that person's home and you knock on the door and you say, I'm running for this or that, and you must have a mail-in ballot in the house somewhere.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, they know where the ballots are.

They know if on whatever address has seven ballots there.

And we're going to,

do they say, we would like you to vote for the the following people and we'll just sit outside until you vote?

I mean, look, we don't know exactly how they do it, but they have been very good at getting what I would call low information voters to vote in unseen levels in California.

Do you think that the Republicans are, because this happens not now,

not just now in California, it spread like a virus to other states, not quite as liberal as California, maybe, but you think the Republicans learned their lesson and this time they're ready for it?

Well, in California, there's just no help because it's so corrupt now.

The good thing is, is that in most of these other states, you know, they're 10 years behind where they would like to get to.

So

there are still rules, there's still laws.

I mean, I think the RNC has done a good job at challenging everywhere that they can to make sure that we don't have some weird Chinese guy show up at your doorstep and say, hey, I'm here to pick up ballots.

I'm just making a joke here, but literally anybody, a foreign national can go into California, pick up ballots.

We don't want that happening across these other states.

And so there's, you know, just in Lancaster the other day in

Pennsylvania, you know, there's, I don't know, some 2,500 votes that they found that could be fraudulent.

So the Republicans have the money.

The good news is the battle, the battlefield is so small because it's seven states

and only 15 counties.

And there's been a lot of different groups that are out there.

There's been a lot of money spent.

So they're on the ground.

They're fighting.

And of course, you have President Trump who doesn't want to see what happened in 2020 happen again.

And he is very on top of, if he sees anything going wrong, you know, he'll put it out on Truth Social immediately and

demand that.

That's

a good point we didn't mention just in ending.

Everybody should have some confidence that there's only so many hundreds of millions of dollars you can spend in seven states, and there's only so much you can do as far as get the vote out, and that kind of equalizes the Republican disadvantage and money, it seems to me.

The election is narrowing and focusing and tapering down just to seven.

And Victor, just to add, and you also have a candidate that has an unprecedented

ability to just campaign everywhere.

I don't know how he does it.

You and I have have talked about that.

I don't know how he does it.

He has four hours sleep.

I saw him this morning.

I saw him, before I went to bed last night, I saw him.

I got up this morning, six hours for me.

I thought that was pretty good.

I saw him and he was already,

he must not sleep.

Well, look, and we know on True Social because a lot of people wonder, like, does he put all these posts out on True Social?

Well, you know that a lot of times he does it because, you know, nobody's working there.

I mean, he'll put one out at midnight and then he'll have another one up at five six in the morning that you know i know that i know that his team is not there at mar-a-lago or wherever at those times so it's it's amazing it's amazing to be so close to it it's been an you know an honor you know to to be so close to to watching you know this this campaign you know even though i'm running you know public company but obviously watching it kind of minute by minute because you watch it on true social um and then being able to interact with president trump as we've built this company, you know,

over the last few years,

you know, the ability, because he brings so many people.

We have the ability to test it.

A lot of people ask, how are you able to

build something that doesn't break?

Well, the best way, as you know, Victor, is it's repetition, repetition, repetition.

So the more people you have, the more users you have.

That's why knock on wood, True Social has been indestructible.

And we hope to do the same thing with True Streaming.

But it's really because of the largest shareholder of our company

needed a place.

So he had a voice.

He had to get his voice back in order for the rest of us to have a place for our voice also.

And it's just been an honor and a privilege to be part of this amazing part of history.

Let's just hope that we end up on the right side of it.

Well, thank you, Devin.

We've covered a lot of topics, and we'll see

after the election how accurate maybe you or I were, but I hope we were very very fair, judicious, and maybe

judiciously optimistic in a way that was warranted.

And I think it is.

So, everybody, we'll see you next time.

I've been with Devin Nunes, the CEO of the Trump Media Group and the director of True Social.

20 years in the Congress,

a neighbor of mine that I've known for a long time.

Thank you, Devin.

Really appreciate it.

And thank you, everybody, for listening.