And, This Is Charlie Kirk

Transcript

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Speaker 24 This is Gavin Newsom.

Speaker 24 And this is Charlie Kirk.

Speaker 24 By the way, what brings you to California, your favorite state?

Speaker 23 It is my favorite. Ooh, this thing's falling.
It is my favorite state in the Union. You're doing such a great job here, by the way.

Speaker 23 No, I'm honored to be on the show. Thank you.

Speaker 24 You were just down at USC?

Speaker 23 I was at USC yesterday. It drew a big crowd.

Speaker 24 By the way, I knew you were at USC early because my niece, who's graduating.

Speaker 23 She was the one with the MAGA hat on.

Speaker 24 She was, by the way, I do have to watch, but she was down there and she was like, she said, you never know. These kids are going to the right.

Speaker 24 I'm aware. She said, this crowd's crazy.
I said, she said, and she had, and the only reason she said, she would have said it perhaps otherwise, but she knew you were coming on.

Speaker 24 The worst part, though, Charlie, no BS, true story.

Speaker 24 Literally last night, trying to put my son to bed, he's like no dad i just what time what time is charlie gonna be here what time and i'm like dude you're in school tomorrow he's 13.

Speaker 24 he's like no no this morning wakes up it's six up then he's like i'm coming i'm like he literally would not leave the house did you let him to take off school no he did of course not he's not here for a good reason but the point is canceled school for like two years once one year

Speaker 24 the point is the point which is you are making a damn debt thank you i'm kidding i'm no but i know and i but i appreciate that i mean it's the reason you're here because i think people need to understand your success, your influence, what you've been up to, and the fact that you're on these college campus doors.

Speaker 24 And to your point, man, you just open up. I mean, you're like, ask me anything?

Speaker 23 Anything.

Speaker 24 Challenge me.

Speaker 23 Challenge me, whatever.

Speaker 24 When did this whole thing, when did you start putting it in?

Speaker 23 I've been at this for 13 years, and it's been a wild movement, really accelerated once President Trump kind of came on the scene.

Speaker 23 Right around, I'd say 2021, we had a goal. Could we move the youth vote 10 points over 10 years? And we know was it literally you sat down and put that numerical together?

Speaker 23 Yeah, like, can we move it 10 points over 10 years-ish, you know, approximate.

Speaker 23 Because our whole hypothesis was, and we, you know, we did this alongside President Trump and his great team, was that this demographic is disproportionately to the Democrat side.

Speaker 23 We believe Democrats were taking them for granted. We think that your side had no message whatsoever and an ideological monopoly.
We saw some of the fault lines there.

Speaker 23 And to President Trump's credit, he also harmonized with the strategy by going on podcasting and using TikTok. But yeah, I mean, we did it in four years, not 10, large in part thanks to you guys.

Speaker 24 And we'll go get to that and I sincerely get to that because I want, you know, I want to stress test some of those fault lines as it relates to the reality of our party and where we are today, vis-a-vis your ascendancy, not just individually as an organization.

Speaker 24 But where was that sort of moment for you? Because it's interesting. I mean, you're such a young guy.
So it's not a deep biography here.

Speaker 24 It's not like 20 years in the wilderness, writing his first book, getting a TV show that was canceled, coming back. It's more just this immediacy of ascendancy.

Speaker 24 Was it, I mean, were you always sort of born and bred with an ideological mindset or were you more open-minded and you started to realize a lot of BS was out there?

Speaker 23 Yeah, I've always been conservative.

Speaker 23 Obviously, grown in that over the last, you know, 10-ish years. Was more libertarian, I'd say, in the first couple of years, as to be expected, as I got married and have kids become more conservative.

Speaker 23 But no, look, just one of the things we saw in the last couple of years that the Democrats completely ignored and your side was basically not acknowledging was happening was the crisis that young people were experiencing.

Speaker 23 That, I mean, just one, it's the first time in America's history that a 30-year-old is going to have it worse off than their parents. It's a breakdown of the social compact.

Speaker 23 They are the most alcohol-addicted, most drug-added, most suicidal, most depressed, most medicated generation in history.

Speaker 23 And the message that was largely being fed to a lot of young people was lower your expectations. You're not going to have the same American dream that your parents would have.

Speaker 23 And we saw this as an opportunity, especially with young men. And again, this got ridiculed a lot by the press that, oh, you know, they're creating this Manosphere thing.

Speaker 23 Look, they're half of the population and necessary for any society and civilization to succeed, which is to have both strong men and strong women.

Speaker 23 And we went about that in a very

Speaker 23 unique and creative way. And again, the president became a cultural phenomenon, where no matter what you threw at this guy,

Speaker 23 he rose above it. You would even have to give him credit.
I mean, basically, 700 years in federal prison, you know, states tried to kick him off the ballot.

Speaker 23 I know you spoke out against it, but California did have a faction that tried to kick him off the ballot, right?

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 23 despite all of that, of course, being shot, and that was kind of the crescendo of all of it, he kind of became this figure of an American comeback story. So he personified.

Speaker 23 what a lot of young people, especially young men, wanted back in their politics, which was an ascendant rebel attitude against these institutions that have failed them so miserably.

Speaker 24 It's interesting. So what would, and you keep saying we, which is interesting, and that's the organization that you created together.
Oh, yes.

Speaker 23 We would be like conservative movement MAGA. But yes, I have Turning Point USA, Turning Point Action, Charlie Kirk Show.

Speaker 23 But when I'm saying we, I mean more specifically, kind of those of us that saw this political moment three or four years ago.

Speaker 24 Right. But you were at this even before then.
Correct. Yeah.
So when did you decide to sort of just shift your gear? I mean, you were working for another Kirkhawk campaign, not

Speaker 24 Mark Kirk. So you had a political, obviously

Speaker 24 strong political leanings, or at least desire to sort of be in the political sphere, but not in elected office necessarily. You just want to be behind the scenes after.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I mean, like the biography has been written about a million times, but I mean,

Speaker 23 didn't go to college, wanted to go to West Point, didn't get in. I'm an entrepreneur.
Yeah, love it. Started this organization, and it became far more successful than I ever could have realized.

Speaker 23 And

Speaker 23 yeah, the

Speaker 23 kind of as we started to grow the organization, I recognized that there was an ideological imbalance on a lot of these college campuses, and we wanted to go about trying to offer a counterpoint of conservative, you know, pro-freedom, pro-liberty, you know, America first ideas.

Speaker 24 And you saw the college campuses as sort of the underbelly of the opportunity, or is it just more just experiential in terms of your own sort of animus towards the campus?

Speaker 23 Well, I mean, most of you have a sitting population of about 20 million kids that are there for four years. There's that.
And also, again,

Speaker 23 you had nowhere to go but up. I mean, 70%, when we started in 2012, 75% of kids on college campuses would vote for Democrats.

Speaker 23 Now, fast forward to today, this last election cycle, Democrats lost the youth vote in Michigan, nearly lost it in Wisconsin, nearly lost it in Arizona. So our goal was, hey, let's move it 10 points.

Speaker 23 We moved at 13 points. And this is important for your audience to know and for Democrats to reckon with, of which I see no signs that Democrats care at all that they're losing the next generation.

Speaker 23 We're drawing record crowds. Our ranks are expanding.
The most support that President Trump has is voters under 30. 60% of voters under 30 support President Trump.
It's according to Rasmussen.

Speaker 23 You might say that's a little rich. It might be, but it's directionally true.

Speaker 23 And one of the main reasons that this has all been happening is that baby boomers have actually seen their wealth increased the last four years.

Speaker 23 They don't buy into this whole idea that our institutions are broken or that they're in need of massive bottom-up revolutionary change.

Speaker 23 And we see that actually, Kamala Harris did three points better with baby boomers than she did in 2020.

Speaker 23 And the number one story that James Carville, who everyone takes seriously for some reason, should have been saying is like all Kamala Harris had to do was just do the same with younger voters that Joe Biden did in 2020.

Speaker 23 And she would be president right now.

Speaker 24 And remind us what Joe Biden did in 2020.

Speaker 23 13 points better.

Speaker 24 Also, in terms of just the same thing.

Speaker 23 Again, this is kind of a combination of exit polling.

Speaker 23 So it's really, it's a difficult science to pinpoint.

Speaker 24 So that goes back then, I mean, to your point, in order to do that, you've got to stand for something. You've got to assert yourself.
You've got to have a strategy and you've got to implement it.

Speaker 23 You don't have to not believe crazy stuff.

Speaker 24 and not believe crazy stuff i mean and so for you i mean it's interesting just you know this last week i guess you were at usc yeah you were at university of florida you had thousands and thousands of folks you get to your point your crowds are growing 2012 where were you you were coming in and people were i mean you do you were take i mean yeah you were like getting threats i mean it you still get tons of threats yep but it was i mean what was it like just to paint a picture of you walking on college campus i had no money no connections and no idea what i was doing and uh yeah i mean we were i didn't even have a a social media account.

Speaker 23 I mean, it was just the ultimate startup.

Speaker 24 And what did you do? Say, I'm available. And you started at this sort of debate.

Speaker 23 No, it was even more scrappy. I would literally show up to UW-Madison with a card table and a big cardboard sign saying, debate me.
You know, like, here's some provocative-something you're doing.

Speaker 23 And I wouldn't even film it. I was, I was 18 or 19.
18 or 19.

Speaker 24 And what, and so you just, what, by the way, where does that end? And sincerely, to be able to debate anybody at any time, anywhere, and in that environment, it's just just, I mean, just,

Speaker 23 you can, you can say it's just confidence or it's just absolute i mean narcissism what is it i mean just or just you know i don't i hope it's not the other but no i mean i guess it would just be i mean at the most charitable reading it could be confidence it'd also be just be that i i wanted to try and challenge the predominant view i always loved debate and disagreement i love the kind of spar yeah and yeah i also find it to be exciting and i wanted to try to you know, figure out where my idea is actually that good and to kind of draw.

Speaker 23 Stress test.

Speaker 24 And are you 10x better than you were in 2012 at the format? Probably. Probably.
And do you study it or you just participate? I mean,

Speaker 24 you look at the old great debates or you're reading debating books. You're watching sort of that.

Speaker 23 Yeah, and I mean, less about debating.

Speaker 23 I mean, debating is a practice that can really only be refined, you know, with lots of routine and reps and repetition, just more about studying, you know, the great books, philosophy,

Speaker 23 all those things.

Speaker 24 And so you, and you make a point of pride of that. I mean, you are to the point you never, you know, you went to community college.
And

Speaker 23 I didn't even graduate community college.

Speaker 24 And you didn't even graduate community, which is great. By the way, I was going to college in Marin.
I got lucky, got a baseball coach that called me and allowed me to get to a four-year university.

Speaker 24 I was joking with you before we started, 960 SAT. I asked you about your SAT.
You said

Speaker 23 I took the ACT.

Speaker 24 I took the ACT, which proves two things how young you are and how different things were.

Speaker 24 You grew up in Illinois.

Speaker 23 I grew up in Illinois, which Midwest was traditionally more of an ACT.

Speaker 24 But this has been a point of pride for you that you didn't do a four-year degree in Union.

Speaker 23 Well, really, because I represent most of the country. Is that actually still the majority of the country does not have a college degree?

Speaker 23 And if I may, you know, bluntly critique the Democrat Party, you guys have become so college-credentialed and educated that you guys snobbishly look on the muscular class of this country, the people that kept things afloat and running during COVID.

Speaker 23 And yeah, I mean, the majority of the country didn't go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Caltech, or Cal Berkeley, right?

Speaker 24 Thank you.

Speaker 23 And the Republican Party has become far more representative of them, large in part thanks to Trump.

Speaker 23 But yeah, and look, I say it with some pride also because as an entrepreneur, I tried to build something,

Speaker 23 not just seek a credential.

Speaker 24 Love that. And what, and there are what, 11 million folks? There are 11 million jobs out there.
You make this point all the time. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 23 Open jobs that don't require a college degree.

Speaker 24 But do not require a college degree.

Speaker 24 So when you say, and it's interesting, because there's sort of that critique of the Democratic Party that we are captured by the sort of college elite, in what respect, I mean, stress test that for a second,

Speaker 24 allow me to. What specifically are you referencing in that conversation?

Speaker 23 Well, your voters, your voters have become nearly, I mean,

Speaker 23 the higher you go up the education ladder, the higher the correlation it is that you vote for the Democrat Party. It's almost a one-to-one with PhD.

Speaker 23 It's like 75% for master's degrees, and it's 65% for the degree. Why do you think that's the case?

Speaker 24 What are the issues that sort of are identified

Speaker 24 in that respect?

Speaker 23 The sloppy analysis is like, oh, they're smarter, therefore they must be Democrats.

Speaker 23 And I think that's silly and insane. Yeah.

Speaker 24 And insulting.

Speaker 24 I totally agree.

Speaker 23 The deeper and more profound analysis is that a lot of ideological bubbles that exist on these college campuses, they are homogeneous, not heterodox when it comes to what ideas are expressed.

Speaker 23 And then secondly,

Speaker 23 the value system that you leave on college campuses is high trust of institutions. So the biggest divide in America is not right versus left.

Speaker 23 It's whether or not you generally trust institutions or you don't trust institutions. And this has been largely inverted the last 20 years.

Speaker 23 So back in the early 2000s, Democrats were low trust of institutions. Iraq war, anti-Bush, anti-NSA, anti-Patriot anti-Patriot Act.
And that's when you guys had a lot of activist spark and energy.

Speaker 23 That has been completely inverted. So the right is now low trust of institutions, where the left is high trust of institutions.
We're the ones that challenge the COVID vaccine.

Speaker 23 We're the ones that think that public health authorities might have lied to us during COVID.

Speaker 23 We're the ones that don't necessarily believe the government when it says that we should keep on sending money to Ukraine. Again,

Speaker 23 that's a general rule. There are some exceptions to that.
But when you go to college, you are trained to trust the experts, trust the scientists, trust the people that are leaders of authority.

Speaker 23 And the Democrat Party is largely the gatekeepers of that kind of ideological and intellectual regime.

Speaker 24 It's interesting.

Speaker 24 And so from your perspective, I mean, as you advocate for people to sort of open up a worldview that is life without a four-year degree and all the opportunities that present themselves anew in that respect, are you arguing for the disestablishment, the end of higher education?

Speaker 24 I think it's going to happen no matter what.

Speaker 23 I mean, in 10 years, artificial intelligence is going to change everything.

Speaker 23 And I don't know what these four-year degrees are actually doing to prepare these kids for that. But no, as far as like, I'm not, I mean, am I advocating for the end of the pursuit of learning?

Speaker 23 Of course not. That's one of my big critiques is that at a lot of these schools, they're not pursuing what is good, true, and beautiful.

Speaker 23 It's become the oppression Olympics and a weaponized complaint seminar of people sitting in the circle and finding out

Speaker 23 who's been offended the most that day. That's not doing anybody any good.

Speaker 23 And in fact, it creates a very weak political movement, which I think plays into one of the reasons why we were able to steamroll you guys back in November, is that once there's a a little opposition against a group of people that have never actually been, you know, had to build the muscle mass of a very difficult and unpredictable world.

Speaker 23 Whereas those of us that are conservatives, we're insulted all the time. So think about the experience of a kid on a college campus.
They say they're graded differently because of their views.

Speaker 23 They may or may not be right. I think they are.
But they're definitely in the ideological minority, right? You wear a Trump hat on a college campus, at least until we came around.

Speaker 23 That was like a big sign of cultural rebellion. So you have two choices.
You can either stop fighting for what you believe in, or you become really tough.

Speaker 23 And you create that muscle that allows you to then carry and shoulder a heavier burden.

Speaker 24 Right. And so just, and I don't want to belabor the

Speaker 24 issues of the establishment plot called higher education, as some have not you referred to it, though maybe you align yourself. I wrote a whole book called The College Scandal.

Speaker 24 So it's sort of in sort of stress testing that in the context of some would argue the contra argument is, you know, a million dollars more in lifetime earnings, more likely to get married, less likely to get divorced, more likely to be civically engaged, and longer life spans with college degrees.

Speaker 24 And you would say all of those is true.

Speaker 23 It's just, let's, not everyone that goes to college graduates. The national graduation is a lot of money.

Speaker 24 41% dropout.

Speaker 23 Yeah, 41% drop out. Exactly right.
Also, half the kids that graduate college will not even end up using their degree

Speaker 23 when it comes to the affiliated jobs. So the numbers are true at the highest income.
So about 10% of kids that go to college stretch out the averages to be really, really high.

Speaker 23 And so, for example, you go to Caltech to study computer engineering and applied AI next moment you're crushing it right you go to Cal to go study North African lesbian poetry yeah like is that an actual degree there you tell me government I don't know I mean we we fucked it up

Speaker 24 that's what I'm saying the fact you don't know well I don't know every single damn poet

Speaker 24 in the largest

Speaker 24 but it's a maybe if the fact it's a maybe we got some problems well the fact that a lot of people have explored different disciplines like I don't know that's fine it's just the taxpayers shouldn't have the funding well yeah I mean increasingly individuals are funding it, as you know, which relates to the talk about the inversion of how we fund education.

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Speaker 24 And by the way, just FYI, having just put together a career master plan, we had a master plan in the state of California that created the UC systems, the CSUs, and the community college system half a century ago.

Speaker 24 We've applied the same discipline to a career master plan in the state of California.

Speaker 24 And so I'm completely aligned with you in terms of a focus and energy there and looking at pre-apprentice apprenticeships, looking not even at apprenticeships in the traditional sense, but valuing and highlighting and signaling the value of a life without a degree, et cetera.

Speaker 24 So I'm not as far off on this as you are. That said, I've just, I've got to admire what you've been able to do, not to weaponize, but to organize on these college campuses a different point of view.

Speaker 24 And again, let's talk about some of that. When you go to these college campuses, I love watching your TikTok, which is next level.
Clearly, that's expressed by my 13-year-old son.

Speaker 24 I want to meet this guy.

Speaker 23 He's coming to a turning point event this summer, Tampa, Florida Student Action Summit.

Speaker 24 I actually am concerned. By the way, if you should be concerned.
But actually, let me say,

Speaker 24 here is why I'm concerned, because you have expressed that I should be concerned as a Democrat, that we're getting

Speaker 24 clobbered. Yes.
That you've figured something out.

Speaker 23 It's not me. The president first deserves the credit.
But why?

Speaker 24 No, no, hold on. You were at this before Trump was.
No, I know, but he was a Democrat back in 2011.

Speaker 23 The president deserves huge credit. And I just have to say that as an obligatory thing, because without him, our movement would be small.
And you can appreciate that in politics.

Speaker 23 You have to appreciate the person who is the catalyst

Speaker 23 for you that's what you sort of attached and identify he was also just the catalyst it was a cultural moment that just opened us up but but but go back just on that because because i'm curious in 2012 13 14 who were you identifying with from the moment i mean i was more like as i mentioned ron paul rand paul libertarian because that's where the energy really was right right and then president trump comes on again i was still very early in my political journey.

Speaker 23 So you're looking up a lot, you know, who's the top voices? What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Yeah.

Speaker 24 So more more of the libertarian frame.

Speaker 23 And I still have some libertarian leanings on some.

Speaker 24 And when Trump came down that escalator, you're like, boom.

Speaker 23 Not day one. No, I was mystified at first.

Speaker 24 Why are you saying this guy's, there's no chance?

Speaker 23 No, it's funny. I actually sent out a tweet very, like, 2011 when I was in high school saying Trump should run for office, but I was not mystified negatively.
I was like, can this really happen?

Speaker 23 Can a guy that has no political experience come down an escalator, challenge the whole establishment? Right.

Speaker 24 But you didn't expect Donald Trump to come down the escalator and start talking about illegal aliens or, you know, ripple. disagreements.

Speaker 24 Well, you didn't. I didn't see that coming.

Speaker 23 And again, this is well documented. Early in my journey, I underestimated the silent majority that really wanted a rebalancing of the American political landscape.

Speaker 24 So interesting. So Trump then became the catalyst.
And so Turning Point became sort of next level. Your events start growing.
You organize around that. Turning point action becomes

Speaker 23 the political arm. So one is more educational, one is more political.
And we did ballot chasing in Arizona and Wisconsin. We were successful in that.

Speaker 23 Alongside the Trump campaign, Arizona was the best performing swing state.

Speaker 24 And you're not modeling yourself at anything because the flatness of the surrounding terrain, meaning where are the Democrats? Are you looking at other organizing?

Speaker 23 We were modeling off of some of the ballot chasing, ballot harvesting practices of the left.

Speaker 23 But I mean,

Speaker 23 again,

Speaker 23 that's a self-limiting principle. You can't ballot chase if no one wants to vote for you.
That's right.

Speaker 23 So, I mean, you could have the best organizers in the world and you have 2,000 people chasing ballots in Arizona

Speaker 23 and you're running Kamala Harris in Arizona.

Speaker 23 What you actually was, and what we ended up tracking through our data is that the Democrats were chasing for us, is that they were chasing low-propensity Hispanics thinking that they were all for Kamala.

Speaker 23 And in fact, we were looking at the precinct numbers of areas we didn't hit that moved like 20 points in Trump's direction.

Speaker 23 We're like, well, thank you very much, Kamala campaign, for getting out and chasing our ballots. And, you know, for all this, these Hispanic men that are mechanics, we appreciate it.

Speaker 23 Thanks for making sure that we also won Dave McCormick's Senate seat. Right, right.
So, so again, chasing is only one part of the, like Democrats, of course, are better organizers than us.

Speaker 23 I mean, it's in your blood. Barack Obama was a community organizer.
We make fun of it. It's who you guys are.
You guys have labor as a backbone, clipboard and tennis shoes.

Speaker 24 However, labor less and less. We can talk about

Speaker 23 the moment.

Speaker 23 But

Speaker 23 what we always felt that we had is we felt we had better ideas and a better message and all that.

Speaker 23 The idea was, can we combo a little bit of organizing practices with a mass movement, which is how you get a national popular vote victory and an overwhelming electoral landslide.

Speaker 24 And so what do you see?

Speaker 24 Just, I mean, I sort of talked about the flatness of the surrounding terrain, meaning the Democratic party in some respect as it relates to, I appreciate your point about organizing, but also coercion

Speaker 24 versus, you know, sort of forcing people to vote versus an enthusiasm and a desire to actually proactively get it.

Speaker 23 That actually has a backfiring effect, too.

Speaker 24 I appreciate that. And so what do you see right now? I mean, you know,

Speaker 24 I think you talked about it the other day. A lot of folks were talking about that Carville article where he talked about.
Roll over and play dead. Roll over.

Speaker 24 In essence, he said that I think it's a strategic retreat, right? That we need to come back. Trump's starting to implode.
His numbers are getting soft.

Speaker 24 This was even before the tariff issues, et cetera, and then come back and strike when hot. And

Speaker 24 immediately, nobody has thought about you, who's just 24-7, flooding the zone, back to my 13-year-old, owning this space, every day getting a convert, every day picking up one, two, 10,000 folks, continuing the momentum, coming out of this damn election.

Speaker 24 And then I'm thinking about, we're going to stand back and watch you run circles around us for six months, the next two or three years, waiting for the moment to finally strike.

Speaker 24 Strike struck me as not necessarily the best advice, and it's not a knock on Carville, who I have deep respect for, what your thoughts are. That's okay.
So I don't have to.

Speaker 23 He's right about one thing in the last 40 years. It's economy stupid.
And boy,

Speaker 23 he spent down that one line pretty amazingly. But yeah, look, I'll say, I don't want to make this about Carville, but like, yeah, I hope you guys retreat.

Speaker 24 You kind of like more for us?

Speaker 23 I mean, if there's no opposition, there's no

Speaker 23 activist spark. If, like, you guys are posting these cringe videos on social media.

Speaker 24 What are the videos? What are the ones? I don't know.

Speaker 23 This like harmonious thing of like 22 senators all saying the same thing.

Speaker 24 I didn't like that. Yeah.
I didn't like it.

Speaker 24 Go ahead. Go do more of that.
What do you do? But what do you do? Seriously, Charlie Kirk, give us some advice.

Speaker 23 You get better ideas, Governor. Like, for example, I mean, like, if you want to, like, you have an opportunity to, like, you know, run to the middle and see this man.

Speaker 23 So obviously you're talking to me about people. So, like, you right now should come out and be like, you know what?

Speaker 23 The young man who's about to win the state championship in the long jump in female sports,

Speaker 23 that shouldn't happen. You as the governor should step out and say no.

Speaker 24 No, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 23 But, like, would you do something like that? Would you say no men in female sports?

Speaker 24 Well, I think it's an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that.
It is an issue of fairness. It's deeply humble.

Speaker 23 Would you speak out against this young man, AB Hernandez, who right now is going to win the state championship in the long jump?

Speaker 23 I can see you wrestling with it.

Speaker 24 No, I'm not wrestling. I'm not wrestling with the fairness issue.
I totally agree with you. By the way, as someone with four kids, I think.
I have two daughters, right? Two daughters.

Speaker 24 I have a daughter too.

Speaker 24 And a wife that went, God forbid, to Stanford and played on the junior national soccer team and a guy who got into college only because I was left-handed and could throw baseball a little bit or hit the ball for a little bit.

Speaker 24 So

Speaker 24 I revere sports. And so the issue of fairness is completely legit.
And I saw that the last couple of years. Boy, did I saw how you guys were able to weaponize that issue at another level?

Speaker 23 Not weaponized.

Speaker 24 Well, weaponized maybe pejorative, you're right. But you were able to

Speaker 24 highlight it in a way that, frankly,

Speaker 24 there are not that many. We're talking about, I think the NC2A, what, 510,000? No, no, but I just didn't realize.

Speaker 23 It's 890 medals and trophies that we know of in the last five years.

Speaker 24 That's a lot. No, so I'm going to, let me step back, say, completely fair on the issue of fairness.
I completely agree. So that's easy to call out the unfairness of that.

Speaker 24 There's also a humility and a grace, you know, that these poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety and depression.

Speaker 24 And the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue that I have a hard time with as well. So both things I can hold in my hand.

Speaker 24 How can we address this issue with the kind of decency that I think is inherent in you, but not always expressed on the issue? No, I get it. At the same time, deal with the unfairness.

Speaker 23 You asked a good faith question, like, how do we Democrats get out of the wilderness? Yeah. This one is an 80-20 issue.
New York Times poll, right?

Speaker 24 That's not a good idea. No, I agree with being crushed on you.

Speaker 23 And like, crushed. And you have an opportunity in the state to be like, look, I have a heart for A.B.
Hernandez. I have a heart for the San Jose volleyball player.
Let's give them compassion.

Speaker 23 What's not fair is just for like a woman's entire woman's sports. I agree.

Speaker 24 By the way, I agree with you. I agree with you.
And it's interesting. I stress tested this, Charlie.

Speaker 24 I was wondering, I said, you know, in California, and I've been a leader in the LGBTQ places, as you know, back in 2004, was marrying same-sex couples. And I know we have difference opinion on

Speaker 24 marriage equality.

Speaker 24 And so I've been at this for years and years. I take a bad seat to no one.
But I was actually on the issue of sports, which in the last few years has just exploded,

Speaker 24 trying to understand and understand the 10 athletes in the NC2A, 510,000 athletes, but 10 athletes.

Speaker 24 But how profound. And even my own friend cohort, people saying, the hell is going on? Why aren't you calling this out? When did this happen?

Speaker 24 So in 2000, it turns out in 2014, years before I was governor, there was a law established that established the legal principles that

Speaker 24 allow trans athletes in women's sports.

Speaker 24 But the issue of fairness is completely legit. So I completely align with you.
And we've got to own that. We've got to acknowledge it.

Speaker 24 And I don't say that through the prism of politics because you disagree with same-sex marriage on principle.

Speaker 24 And so I'm not, and by the way, I value the fact that you're not trying to walk away from that principle because electorally.

Speaker 24 I'm in the minority. The minority set.
Yeah, in the minority. And I don't want to walk away from this principle because it's electoral, but it is an issue of fairness.
And I think Democrats.

Speaker 23 I think that

Speaker 23 I wish that we would have done this podcast last week.

Speaker 23 Last week? Well, because the U.S. Senate just voted, every Democrat voted against that bill.
And I'm just telling you, like, again, I'm not one to give Governor Newsome advice.

Speaker 23 You guys are giving us an 80-20 issue

Speaker 23 that is just permeating the country.

Speaker 23 And it's such an affront to our senses.

Speaker 23 And you look at these videos, Governor, because it's not just that it's, okay, you read an article about it, but these young men that are, you know, are in these sports, they're throwing around girls.

Speaker 23 And it is an issue of fairness, but it goes to a broader arch narrative,

Speaker 24 which is important.

Speaker 23 No, and this, I want to hear this, which is this, that, that, that you, that the Democrats, you guys will tend to view an incident through an oppressor-oppressed lens. Yeah.
It's your training.

Speaker 23 It comes from college. It comes from, and we, as conservatives, tend to view things through right or wrong or just or unjust.

Speaker 23 And the country is going far more in our direction and away from your direction because the problem with oppressor-oppressed is eventually you run out of oppressors and you start creating them out of thin air.

Speaker 23 And you start trying to say, well, these people must to be blamed for all of our problems.

Speaker 23 And that's where you get a lot of the,

Speaker 23 let's just say a lot of, for example, there's a Wall Street Journal editorial like when will the white men shut up or stop complaining? That does no good for anybody, right?

Speaker 23 So

Speaker 23 what I'm getting at, though, is it's a worldview difference, right?

Speaker 24 And so that's why the issue is so much more powerful.

Speaker 23 Of course it is, but it's also pattern recognition. It's pattern recognition of a Democrat Party that post-2020 post-2020 decided to go all in.
We call it woke.

Speaker 23 You might call it justice or whatever it is, but it's so outside of what we would consider traditional Americans' norms and customs.

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Speaker 23 A Democrat strategist would say, oh, Charlie, you're weaponizing stuff. Not you, but like, that's a typical thing.

Speaker 23 But the most effective ad of this election cycle, the most effective ad, you know what it is.

Speaker 24 Yeah,

Speaker 24 and devastating. Trump's for you.
She's for them.

Speaker 24 Devastating. Again,

Speaker 24 she didn't even react to it, which was even more.

Speaker 23 And let's talk about why it was devastating. Number one, it was the trans issue that was just

Speaker 23 monopolizing.

Speaker 24 And this was even more challenging because there's issues of people that are incarcerated. And illegal.
And illegal incarcerated individuals getting taxpayer funding. Yes.

Speaker 24 And gender reassignment subjects. That is a 90-10, not an 80-10.

Speaker 23 And then she's like enthusiastically defending it, bragging, being like, I'm all for this. I'm all for this.

Speaker 24 Yeah, and then you had the video that it was a validator. Brutal.

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 24 And so tens of millions of brutal. And then the targeted focus

Speaker 24 from the Trump campaign, next level.

Speaker 23 And then Charlamagne comes out on Breakfast Club is like, this is insane. And they ran it on NFL football.

Speaker 24 Brilliant.

Speaker 23 Yes. And so you're trying to reach men.

Speaker 23 It's not like it's not.

Speaker 24 It was a brilliant campaign commercial. It was brutal.

Speaker 24 It doesn't require that. By the way, we were running around just for the what the hell it's worth for you.
She was AG at the time. She was addressing the issue of a legal settlement.

Speaker 24 The courts were intervening on this topic, but she had the video where in the video she was obviously expressed support. And so

Speaker 23 she was being a cheerleader for a very unpopular thing.

Speaker 24 It was a great ad.

Speaker 24 And I won't say that lightly. But this is important for political animals.

Speaker 23 And I want to make sure it's not just that this this was like the Willie Horton ad of the 2024. It wasn't just like a Liat Water brilliance.
It's that it reflected truth that the voters felt.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I appreciate it. And because voters felt as if their country was slipping away.
Now,

Speaker 23 the Democrats have a choice. You could say to those people, you're racist, you're Nazis, you're fascist, you're terrible.
Or you can listen to them and be like, why is it?

Speaker 23 that a steel worker in Pittsburgh who's voted Democrat his entire life is voting for Trump despite all of

Speaker 23 the stuff that's been thrown at him. Yeah.

Speaker 24 And all the rhetoric that he's thrown at us. Yes.

Speaker 24 But

Speaker 23 it's a pattern, and the trans thing is just one of those things.

Speaker 23 But the second element was also what we saw under Joe Biden was if you came to the southern border from any country and you spoke the magic words, you can go to any city you're choosing, right?

Speaker 23 CBP1 border app.

Speaker 23 And all of a sudden that steel worker in Pittsburgh's like, why am I paying all these taxes? I get it. And I'm getting my, I can't afford beer.
I can't afford anything.

Speaker 23 And so I guess my question is to you, what are the Democrats going to do about it?

Speaker 24 So

Speaker 24 I'm going to answer that in a second, but let me just, let me, let me pull a few more threads. You said 2020 is when you started to see the Democrats sort of advance this notion of wokeism.

Speaker 23 It's when the awokening, the awokening really started.

Speaker 24 What was it?

Speaker 23 You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 24 No, but so is it

Speaker 24 the Latinx stuff that, by the way, not one person ever in my office has ever used the word Latinx.

Speaker 23 So can we finally put that to bed?

Speaker 24 Yeah, but where did did that even mean? No more Latinx, everybody. Well, I just didn't even know where it came from.
I'm like, what are people talking about? Was it the pronouns?

Speaker 24 By the way, once, once. You'd think California invented the frame of the pronoun.

Speaker 24 I mean, literally, I had one meeting where people started going around the table of pronouns. One.
There's been a hell of a lot of days between 2020 and today. And one meeting.

Speaker 24 So it's not like this is, I'm like, what the hell is, why is this the biggest issue?

Speaker 23 Well, in corporate America, it's everywhere.

Speaker 24 Okay, all right.

Speaker 23 And college campuses.

Speaker 24 It must college. See, that's where you reside a lot in the college campuses.
You may have to defund these schools if they're doing the crony funding.

Speaker 24 Jesus, okay. And so

Speaker 24 number three, what else? I mean, you started.

Speaker 24 What was also the big wokeism thing?

Speaker 23 Well, I mean, first of all,

Speaker 23 it wasn't just the projection of certain narratives, which we could obviously go through. But it's when policy started to come forward.

Speaker 24 And what kind of policy?

Speaker 23 Hiring practices. When it was, there was, we're not going to be able to do that.

Speaker 24 There was DEI decades ago. Yeah.
I mean, it was called

Speaker 24 reach and inclusion.

Speaker 23 But we saw mass adoption, what we saw. And not only that, we saw pledging of billions of dollars of donations to racial justice from the biggest types of corporations imaginable.

Speaker 24 Fair point. And that was sort of post-George Floyd.

Speaker 23 That's what I'm saying. That's when this,

Speaker 23 you had a combustible.

Speaker 24 And was that wrong? I mean, to address the issue of racial. I mean, there's legitimate issues as it relates to past practices.

Speaker 23 What was insulting to a lot of people is, number one, where's the money going? Because the top premier BLM charity ended up being a racket.

Speaker 23 With Patrice Cullers, like, where'd that 100 million bucks go?

Speaker 23 So all of a sudden, we learned that, and all these pledges of corporate dollars were going to this woman that's like hiring her like brother for personal security.

Speaker 23 And that like a lot of, and you would even agree, like that,

Speaker 24 that became the poster challenge. But number two,

Speaker 23 but number two, which I think was most important, was that it was, it elevated then this scholarly community that was otherwise fringe, like Robin DiAngelo and other people.

Speaker 23 And her book, White Fragility, literally the entire premise of her book is that white people need to stop being so fragile about race. You need to sit down and shut up and hear how racist you are.

Speaker 23 And she was brought on tours to corporations across the country.

Speaker 23 And by the way, just you understand, this was a phenomenon over months and months. And it didn't quite catch up in time for the 2020 election.

Speaker 23 I do believe that if you guys would have been a little less insane on crime in the summer of 20, you would have completely clobbered us in November of 20.

Speaker 23 It was like it was the riots that even made 2020 close.

Speaker 23 But then it was the extension of all of the what we would call woke stuff. Right.
Defund police.

Speaker 23 Yeah, I mean, Minneapolis literally had to hold a special vote saying, like, should we still have a police department?

Speaker 24 Yeah, that's, I mean,

Speaker 24 that was lunacy. But, Governor, I just want to say, by the way, by the way, you're talking to someone who's never supported the defund police.
No, I'm not saying, I know, but I was explicit.

Speaker 24 But hold on.

Speaker 23 You did support Prop 16 in 2020, which would have legalized

Speaker 23 racial prejudice, right? Prop 16 literally would.

Speaker 24 You've got to go back to my point.

Speaker 23 No, no, you're not. No, no, no.
No, no.

Speaker 24 Prop 16. I'm taught 960 SAT, so a little human being.
Hold on, yeah. You're the governor of the largest state in the country.

Speaker 23 No, no, no. I saw your debate against DeSantis.
You're good at this stuff.

Speaker 24 You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 23 Prop 16 would have had legalized racial prejudice, which

Speaker 23 got defeated by 16 points despite all the institutions.

Speaker 23 So you're asking me what did wokeism look like when California, when all the institutions, yourself included, with all due respect, embraced this insane ballot measure. Guess what?

Speaker 23 Even the people of California didn't want

Speaker 24 racial discrimination. But California, since 1996, has had Prop 209.
So the affirmative action case came for the Supreme Court as well.

Speaker 24 Institutions of higher learning had no impact on California. So we've actually, it's an interesting thing.
California also codified as a constitutional amendment marriages between a man and a woman.

Speaker 24 And that was in the 2000s. So California runs an interesting thing.
I found control.

Speaker 23 I'm terminating, though, that despite, I mean, there was really like no opposition. It was like a couple hundred like Asian activists.

Speaker 24 Honestly, to go back to it.

Speaker 23 But I just want to say, you asked the question, what did wokeism look like? Prop 16 in California that would have had legalized racial discrimination.

Speaker 24 That was not a major, there was a broader

Speaker 24 question.

Speaker 23 I'm just bringing it home to you. No, no, no.
There were hundreds of such ballot referendums, right?

Speaker 23 There was, you know, city council meetings where they said the white people aren't allowed here, right?

Speaker 24 And what's not good. I know.
No, it's not good.

Speaker 23 And so what that ends up happening, what ends up happening is a broader question of sensible, not racist suburban moms that are like, wait a second, I have an eight-year-old white son.

Speaker 23 Are you trying to say he's a racist?

Speaker 23 And it creates a backlash

Speaker 23 that then bubbles up, right?

Speaker 24 I appreciate that perspective.

Speaker 24 And no, I appreciate not just the perspective. I totally appreciate what you just said

Speaker 24 as an explicit statement of fact to make an eight-year-old feel like they're racist is absurd and outrageous.

Speaker 23 But, governor, with all the respect, that's happening right now in California politics.

Speaker 23 And I'm not trying to drill you on. I'm just being honest.

Speaker 23 Like, you could say that, but, like, maybe you should convene a special session and say, like, no more, you know, race-based teaching against white people in the schools of California or Asians.

Speaker 23 I'm just saying, though, that like, this is not a conjecture. It's not a hypothetical.
It is embedded into the DNA of the Democrat Party.

Speaker 24 Yeah, okay. I appreciate it.
I mean,

Speaker 24 the CRT stuff. Yes.
I mean,

Speaker 24 I was trying to find it.

Speaker 24 We have CRT in K-12 education. You have the principles of it.

Speaker 23 I mean, of course, critical theory is like a PhD level.

Speaker 23 It's taught by Derek Bell and Kimberly Crenshaw. But the same way that you have advanced physics and the theories of physics in eighth grade, it's like saying you don't have the elements of it.

Speaker 23 But for example, I mean, it's very simple.

Speaker 24 But at least that explains why, because I'm just trying to

Speaker 24 find it.

Speaker 23 We know of over at least 50 schools in California that do things called privilege walks. Do you know what privilege walks are? What are privilege walks?

Speaker 23 Where they make kids walk ahead based on certain questions and they try to make a point saying, well, see, the white people are ahead. They must have white privilege.

Speaker 24 Okay, I get it. Yeah, no.

Speaker 24 All right, I got to get back

Speaker 24 into the classroom.

Speaker 24 I got six million kids. You got to get your allocations on.
1,050 school districts, the largest

Speaker 24 ones. I know that.
No, but no excuse because these things are important. And by the way, it's the reason we're having this conversation.

Speaker 24 This is very illuminating and helpful to me to understand sort of the animus. What is it about, you know, that animus? I joke with people.

Speaker 24 I said, what, you know, you guys don't like DEI, CRT, ESG, DOJ, FBI, IRS.

Speaker 24 It's all the damn three-letter acronyms. What the hell is the issue? What's going on with all that?

Speaker 23 You know, I can, I, you missed some.

Speaker 24 Which ones? Which others? What have I missed? EPA? Of course you're not. EPA, the EPA.

Speaker 23 The Employment Prevention Agency.

Speaker 24 Oh, okay. You're about to gut that 65%.
That's really interesting.

Speaker 23 Look, I mean,

Speaker 23 so it's not just acronyms that we dislike for the record, but

Speaker 24 it's what it is like that sometimes. I mean, how about the book ban stuff? On a serious note,

Speaker 24 4,240 books or titles, libraries and schools are banned in 2023.

Speaker 24 Is that not as a conservative? Well, it depends.

Speaker 23 I mean, like, I think we can both agree pornography should not be taught to nine-year-olds.

Speaker 24 Fair point. Okay.
So that's a book ban. All right.
Well, there are some other books. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 23 That was the Moms for Liberty contention. Timeout.
Like, I agree on Bill O'Reilly. The Moms for Liberty movement that you made a big thing of was just no porn to 10-year-olds.
Yeah. We agree.
So

Speaker 23 those books should be banned.

Speaker 24 Well, okay.

Speaker 23 So what we should do right now is every California school that has porn in their library should be kicked out.

Speaker 24 Does that include the Bible?

Speaker 23 Well, I wouldn't say the Song of Solomon is porn.

Speaker 24 No, but I mean some have made that point. Is that a fair point?

Speaker 24 I don't think that's fair. And as a man of faith, and I deeply admire that about you.
Thank you.

Speaker 23 Yeah, sure. But no, I mean, again, the song of Solomon is rather risque.

Speaker 24 No, it's true.

Speaker 23 But what what we're talking about in these books is not just the words, it's also the images. And again, your audience can look at the images themselves.

Speaker 23 It's highly graphic.

Speaker 24 But again, what seems a banning binge. I mean, at next level, sort of cancel culture.

Speaker 23 But why do you think moms are doing that? Do you think it's because they want to have mind control, or do you think that they have come across incident of incident of highly provocative material?

Speaker 24 I love moms, but this mom's, I mean, we don't have to get into moms for liberty. It's a matter of money.

Speaker 23 So you brought up the book banana.

Speaker 24 It's not deeply organized for a larger agenda, but that's my humble opinion.

Speaker 23 No, but I, but for example, but let me just kind of complete the point: is that it's easy to just call it kind of a book ban, but when you actually have to read some of these books, it will take your breath away of some of this stuff, right?

Speaker 23 You're like, okay, you know, we're teaching a 10-year-old how to put a condom on.

Speaker 24 I know, I just have a problem with, you know, who the hell is going to decide that government? I mean, Duran DeSantis is going to decide what I can read or say. I mean,

Speaker 23 come on, this is the exercise of politics, though. The exercise of politics is the highest form of community because it blends morality and sociability.

Speaker 23 So what we do is we have discussion and elections, and we have boards and commissions, right? And we as a people say, okay, no porn for 10-year-olds. And that's politics, right?

Speaker 24 I mean, I'm not saying that there's like some sort of we've got to stress test whether the Bible's included in that. I don't even want to go forward anymore of this.
No, it's tough, but this is the

Speaker 24 dialectic. I have heard a lot.

Speaker 23 I've never heard, that's interesting, though.

Speaker 24 No, I mean,

Speaker 24 it's a point of view. I don't think

Speaker 24 offend again. I deeply don't mean to offend.
By the way, Father Kaz would be offended. If you think the Bible's pornographic,

Speaker 24 most of these books are quote-unquote not pornography. There's sections that

Speaker 24 can offend.

Speaker 23 Of images that are very violating to young people.

Speaker 24 Some we would agree on that. But hold on, can I just say

Speaker 23 if you want to learn, Governor, and I'm happy that there is a movement of moms that is not, that's growing where they feel as if our kids are being hypersexualized.

Speaker 23 And I agree with them that they are being, that they have to hear topics. Social media.
Well, both in the social media and the classroom.

Speaker 23 And I mean, look, again, you signed a law where school districts can't even tell parents if their kids are trans. That's true.

Speaker 24 Okay, then true. Okay, then.
No, they can. They just can't get fired for not doing that.
And it wasn't just trans.

Speaker 24 The law was explicit, said you can't be fired for not snitching on a kid, not just for being trans, for being gay.

Speaker 24 And my point is, how in the hell

Speaker 23 parents know? They have every right to do that.

Speaker 24 But telling parents snitching? No,

Speaker 24 the teachers themselves have the right. The law is they can do that.
They can do that. We're not saying you can't do that.

Speaker 24 We're saying you shouldn't be fired if you choose not to say Johnny was talking about liking some other boys. It's not charitable reading.

Speaker 24 It's not charitable. It's charitable.
But let me tell you. It's freedom not to.

Speaker 23 Let me tell you the other way to say this. That a teacher, of course, should be fired if you don't notify a parent of what's happening to their kid.

Speaker 23 Of course they should be terminated for that.

Speaker 24 On health and safety. Since they've been teaching, I want these kids to teach.
I want these teachers to teach.

Speaker 24 And by the way, they feel like the health or safety of their kid, they have a responsibility to communicate. They still can't.
By the way, we're not selling these teachers they can't.

Speaker 24 We're saying they won't be fired if they don't look around and say in the recess, there were two boys. Why didn't you see that? You're fired.

Speaker 24 You should have said something because they're talking about...

Speaker 23 But there, of course, should be a penalty measure, whether it be termination or whatever, if a teacher withholds information from a parent.

Speaker 23 Because what you're saying is that there's no way to hold them accountable. So you're saying you're...

Speaker 24 Accountable to what, though? Accountable to two kids talking about the fact that

Speaker 24 talking about subject matter, all of a sudden now we have to have teachers, policing,

Speaker 24 speech or conversation.

Speaker 23 I think you would even agree, Governor, that is an over-extreme example. What we're talking about is that...

Speaker 24 No, but the extreme example is this was a solution.

Speaker 23 What we're talking about is if, which happens a lot, unfortunately, is if a young girl says that, hey, I want to transition and the teacher accommodates and affirms it.

Speaker 23 and the parent doesn't even know. I have met parents like that in a second.
They heard Trump and then they come back and they're like,

Speaker 24 there's so much extremely important. I will say, and

Speaker 23 we don't have to wrestle too much on this topic, but you guys will lose on these topics.

Speaker 24 And you may disagree.

Speaker 24 But I'm one of those guys, and Charlotte, I appreciate it. And I, by the way, appreciate the civility in which we're engaged in this conversation sincerely.

Speaker 24 I don't mind losing. Sometimes you lose on principle.
It's one of those things, everything's not political is the point.

Speaker 24 And sometimes the principle, and by the way, mad respect for you, abortion, and same-sex marriage.

Speaker 23 You feel that the American people don't agree with me.

Speaker 24 Exactly. And I admire that on principle.
But for me, it's not just political. And I appreciate you making making that point.
I deeply am mindful of the politics of this, which are very unhelpful.

Speaker 24 Personally, it's unhelpful more broadly, professionally, the Democratic Party and our brand. And one of the reasons, to your point, the Democratic Party brand has just been crushed.

Speaker 23 And so is your self-awareness

Speaker 23 is helpful to know because it is deeply unpopular. And I think that that is an ascendant political force

Speaker 23 that is not going away.

Speaker 24 No, I appreciate it, but I also appreciate you hold deeply unpopular beliefs. Of course I do, but I know.
But you're not running for office.

Speaker 23 I'm not going to run for president as a moderate.

Speaker 24 When are you running for office?

Speaker 24 I'm not running for any. I saw a poll in Arizona that you were like one or two.
You have the highest name ID and a favorability. When are you running?

Speaker 24 Is that what this is all about? No, it's definitely.

Speaker 24 You're not even old enough to be president. You're only 31 years old.
You got to be.

Speaker 24 I mean, you are not running for anything. You're going to run against AOC.

Speaker 23 I'm running for head of most popular TikToker.

Speaker 23 I'm not running for anything.

Speaker 24 By the way, should we ban TikTok? Are you not?

Speaker 23 I used to say that. And then I started.
Yeah, why'd you change your position?

Speaker 24 Because no political interest or Trump told you to.

Speaker 23 Well, no, it definitely wasn't. Trump, I sent out a tweet, and I'm perfectly honest about this.
I think you'd respect this, is that I was so mad at them because they would ban me all the time.

Speaker 23 And I sent out a tweet saying, like, hey, if you guys are really for free speech as a creator, like, let's see it. Get a call from TikTok a couple hours later.

Speaker 23 We're going to show you that we're for free speech. We're going to show you the power of the platform.
Right.

Speaker 23 And I saw real changes where our campus interactions went from being banned to now well over two and a a half billion views on TikTok. And so I wouldn't say expedient, I'd say impact.

Speaker 23 And also, they now have changed some of their speech codes. They've changed some of their

Speaker 24 enough for your son. Your son finds my content somehow.
Look, I use TikTok. I was just out there.
I wasn't out there trying to check in the bands. It's a remote as a conversion.

Speaker 24 It's a hell of a conversion. Yeah, hey,

Speaker 23 I'm open about it.

Speaker 24 I appreciate it.

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Speaker 36 On this week's episode of the Next Chapter, I, Dee De Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer.

Speaker 66 Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the Spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first?

Speaker 47 Listen to next chapter on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 27 On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

Speaker 71 Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

Speaker 27 And I'm Harikundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.?

Speaker 71 On health stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

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Speaker 27 Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 24 Back to the Democratic Party. We talk about

Speaker 24 we're not aligned with them. They don't trust us.
I think we have 31 favorability, 57% unfavorability.

Speaker 24 And by the way, thank you. 31% favorability is not good enough.
So, I mean,

Speaker 24 back to just the basics. So you talked about wokeism broadly defined.
We talked about some specific examples of that.

Speaker 24 You began on the transport, which is interesting, and I respect and appreciate.

Speaker 23 I want you to speak out against that one, guys. No, I appreciate it.

Speaker 24 We just did with all of you. I mean, and I've been, by the way, I've been saying that.
It's so interesting

Speaker 24 gets picked up. And that maybe goes to the question.

Speaker 24 We live in these filter bubbles. We're talking to ourselves.

Speaker 24 We're in these sort of, yeah, it's Newsmax, One American News, Fox, and then it gets into all the stuff that you guys are doing and everybody else.

Speaker 24 And meanwhile, I'm safe over here at MSNBC and CNN, reading the New York Times, feeling really great about things and having a nice glass of Chardonnay, listening to Rachel Maddow, self-medicating and just going, yes, yes.

Speaker 24 The French laundry, of course, yeah, the French, that's, of course, the only place I eat. And, you know,

Speaker 24 great takeout and the whole thing. Well, I should have been at Applebee's.
I get it. Applebee's America.
I read the

Speaker 24 In and Out Burger. He was the first.
And here's a guy who makes 25 times more money than I do.

Speaker 24 And sitting here with a jacket. And I'm sitting here with it.
That's right. And you control the fifth largest economy on the planet.

Speaker 24 Well, we don't control the people, control the fifth-largest economy. And by the way, proud that you know it's a 2.59 trillion.

Speaker 24 No, the population went up last year. The population went up last year.

Speaker 23 Because of the illegal border. We'll talk about that later.

Speaker 24 I got a whole thing on it. That's just factually untrue.
And that's 290,000 network 394 National Guard that I put down at the border six years ago.

Speaker 24 You should be championing that as governor of California. 394 we have down at the border.
We've been focused on fennel. I've been working on this.

Speaker 23 But anyway, you're getting somewhere complimentary.

Speaker 24 Yeah, I was. Going back to.

Speaker 23 You're talking about your lining and dining at French Laundry.

Speaker 24 Yes, I was talking about the importance of

Speaker 24 never.

Speaker 24 Well,

Speaker 24 I can't help you with a reservation.

Speaker 24 I've been under this whole shtick. I got to be honest.

Speaker 24 Very nice. By the way, we couldn't have this conversation with that conversation.
Dumbest bonehead move my life. Okay.
Own it, move on, grow up.

Speaker 24 And I'm trying to.

Speaker 23 Is that you talking to yourself?

Speaker 24 That's me talking to myself. I'm just looking, I'm staring.
I'm looking right at you in the eyes as I say say that, just to get your reaction. That said,

Speaker 24 we're losing.

Speaker 24 I feel it's

Speaker 24 asymmetry of Donald Trump and Elon Musk sitting on tweets or you doing social media and me doing a three-minute hit

Speaker 24 at three o'clock in the afternoon on CNN. I mean, how the hell will we compete? We're toast.

Speaker 23 Well, I mean, I'm part of it, and credit to you for doing long-form podcasting because long-form podcasting does penetrate different audiences, right? And our show does very well.

Speaker 23 But part of the problem of the Democrat Party that for the health of the country would be great to change is that Democrats cannot survive in long-form podcasting environments. It's too unscripted.

Speaker 23 It's too masculine, honestly. And the Democrat Party's being aware of the money.

Speaker 24 What is masculine about a podcast? Honestly, because I get the whole manosphere that's broken.

Speaker 23 To go into the wilderness with no rules and duel it out and see who's better or who's stronger.

Speaker 24 No, seriously. I mean, like,

Speaker 24 no, I mean, like. We don't do it.
You're right. For whatever reason, don't do it.

Speaker 23 You can laugh, but, like, who in the Democrat Party

Speaker 23 will go? I mean, maybe Bernie Sanders, but he only laughed like

Speaker 23 Bobby, who's now HHS.

Speaker 23 But, like, there's something to be said that if you want to earn the respect of Forgotten America, you have to show them that you can intellectually joust with no script, no hard breaks, no producers in the ears, no teleprompters.

Speaker 23 That's where new media is going. Now, I will only challenge one thing you say.
I am reaching new audiences. I'm not talking to my bubble because our content is so appealing.

Speaker 23 It goes in a decentralized way.

Speaker 24 And it's not just political. No, it's not political.

Speaker 23 But, like, again, our conversation here is going to go far and wide, right? A lot of people are going to see it.

Speaker 23 A lot of people are going to consume it because it's also politics and entertainment have begun to overlap. Right.
Right. And the old adage is, well, politics is downstream from culture.

Speaker 23 I think politics and culture are indecipherable from one another now. Donald Trump became a cultural phenomenon, right?

Speaker 23 You go into, you know, inner city Compton, you'll see guys with Trump shirts with the hand up, fight, fight, fight.

Speaker 23 So what Democrats are doing is you're still playing in a very old, hypersanitized media environment.

Speaker 23 And my advice is you got to go where it's unpredictable, where it's treacherous, where it's dangerous.

Speaker 23 Now, I would make a more provocative argument that you wouldn't necessarily resonate with, which is that

Speaker 23 you guys have not built the intellectual muscle over 30 years because you all agree with each other all the time.

Speaker 24 Well, it's not like conservatives are massively disagreeing.

Speaker 24 Hold on this idea. And Trump has completely collapsed the conservative.

Speaker 23 I would push back a little bit. I would disagree.
We have a robust discussion.

Speaker 24 It seems like Congress is really doing great oversight of Trump right now.

Speaker 24 They're holding him to account.

Speaker 23 That's an important but separate issue.

Speaker 23 I just want to finish the point and we could talk about Congress, which is that in the Republican Party, we have immense and vocal and public spats all the time. I think you would agree.

Speaker 23 We fight about foreign policy. Look at Ukraine, right? We're talking about primary challenging some of these senators that were meeting Zelensky last week.
The Democrat Party would never do that.

Speaker 23 Now, I think that is a symptom of an underlying thing. We are, we're constantly trying to find the approximation of what truth is.
We're trying to use dialogue towards, hey, who's right?

Speaker 23 What do you believe? Why do you believe it? And it's by no coincidence that out of the long-form podcasting genres,

Speaker 23 the top 10, eight of them are conservative or center-right. Rogan, Megan Kelly, Theo Vaughn, the Paul brothers, our program, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh.

Speaker 23 There's a singular one on the left, which is Pod Save America, which is just like a bunch of Obama bros agreeing with each other for 90 minutes and saying that we're not very smart. And, you know?

Speaker 23 And so anyway, but I... No, I appreciate it.

Speaker 24 No, but objective truth, right? I mean, you just dominate this media.

Speaker 24 It's medium. But what, so what, I mean...
But it's interesting. You're making a deeper argument that we're not, and you didn't say it, again,

Speaker 24 in a maligning way, but that we're just not capable because we're not hardwired.

Speaker 23 Well, I think it's too

Speaker 24 able to participate in that.

Speaker 23 Well, I think that it's two things. Number one, your upbringing in college campuses does not foster debate like it used to.
It just doesn't.

Speaker 23 It's that it's about silencing the critic and the elevation of the victim. So you do not have the practice of robust having to defend your position.
It's very monolithic. It's very centralized.

Speaker 23 It's very top-down. It's quasi-authoritarian.

Speaker 23 And then secondly, I would just say that the philosophy on the worldview, as I mentioned earlier, that you guys have adopted is that thou which is oppressed will get the most points.

Speaker 23 You guys don't have thou that has the best idea wins.

Speaker 23 And because of that, you guys have an elevation of like, hey, we're going to eventually we're just going to have a small subset of a minoritarian, hectoring hall monitor assistant principal vibe of people telling you that you're not allowed to say these words and you can't say that.

Speaker 23 And we call that political correctness, which in and of itself is hyper-authoritarian.

Speaker 23 So if you seek to understand why young men are rebelling, it's like, no, I'm not going to go along with this anymore.

Speaker 23 Like, maybe I'm going to say, for an example, maybe I'm going to send out a stupid tweet when I'm 17 years old.

Speaker 23 When I'm 26, I shouldn't have to get fired because of that, right?

Speaker 24 100%. I've never liked this, Cancer.
I mean, I've glad to hear you say that. I remember back when I was a lieutenant governor, I think Bill Maher was trying to get on the UC campus or something.

Speaker 24 They were saying Bill Maher was too conservative a voice. And we called that out at the time.
It completely said. But it's equally insane that people are boycotting Bud Light.

Speaker 24 I mean, how is that not called?

Speaker 23 If I don't drink, but yeah, I mean, like... You don't drink at all?

Speaker 24 I mean, no. By the way, I'm just, that's interesting.
Yeah. You don't? No.
Never have? I have, yeah. A couple years ago.
What happened? What, a couple of years ago? You stopped? What you stopped?

Speaker 24 Why'd you stop?

Speaker 23 I just wanted to be more successful.

Speaker 24 I love that. What were you drinking?

Speaker 23 Napa Valley wine.

Speaker 24 Oh, Jesus Christ. Here we go.
Right. Are we going to get on? He's my Lord and Savior in vain.

Speaker 24 By the way, forgive me.

Speaker 24 I deeply respect. And by the way, due respect.

Speaker 24 It's like the fourth time.

Speaker 23 I mean, come on.

Speaker 23 No,

Speaker 23 no, I don't drink. But yeah, I mean, look, but first of all, we have the agency to boycott whatever we want, but understandable.

Speaker 24 No, but I mean, in that cancel culture reverse, I mean, a lot of cancel culture. Hold on,

Speaker 24 something completely different.

Speaker 23 First of all, cancel culture is someone in power using their power to cancel somebody that doesn't have power. That's cancel culture.

Speaker 23 Time out. Hold on.
Well, Bud Light was people that don't have a lot of power, consumers, using their agency to say, no, powerful corporation, I'm not going to voluntarily associate with you.

Speaker 23 Cancel culture has always been the incumbent person with power, a governor, a principal, a boss, a CEO, a corporate board, going against the weaker.

Speaker 23 What we did with Bud Light was just a bunch of decentralized folks doing a good old-fashioned boycott.

Speaker 24 Completely different. But a boycott, I don't know.
A boycott is not, I mean, well, there's boycotting speakers, there's boycotting that is a derivative of a cancel culture.

Speaker 23 But the culmination of cancel culture is somebody who has a power position wrongly canceling out.

Speaker 24 I appreciate that perspective. So let's go back to Democrats being totally incompetent, incapable of spending 30, let alone 45 to an hour,

Speaker 24 having a conversation broadly on politics.

Speaker 23 I said you're becoming the exception

Speaker 24 in the process of becoming.

Speaker 23 It's like becoming Gavin, like becoming Michelle, right?

Speaker 24 But so what, I mean, who do you, are the Democrats you do, forget literally any Democrats you admire out there right now?

Speaker 24 I mean, even beyond just the podcast thing, that you look and say, Jesus, there's hope. Got to stop saying that.

Speaker 23 Forgive me.

Speaker 24 There's hope. We can edit that out.

Speaker 23 No, I don't care. You can keep it in.

Speaker 23 I used to have respect for Bernie on his anti-war stance, and now he's a complete neocon. I was going to ask you about Bernie.
He's a complete neocon now, so he's not there.

Speaker 23 Democrats, I respect.

Speaker 24 Oh, yeah, I mean, Bobby Kennedy, I respect.

Speaker 24 Tulsi Gabbard.

Speaker 24 Why are you laughing? Why are you smiling? Because they're on our team now, because you guys kicked out your best people. It's like the people that were into.

Speaker 23 This is a great point, though, Governor. It is.

Speaker 23 Bobby Kennedy was a heterodox opinion on a thing that a lot of people were concerned about.

Speaker 24 Get him out. He's an anti-vaxxer.

Speaker 23 Tulsi Gabbard, who is an anti-war. get her out.
She's a Russian agent.

Speaker 23 If you guys see how you have an unhealthy purification process, where eventually you're left with just a 31% approval rating and a bunch of people that are talking to each other, and meanwhile, we're the ones that have Democrats in our cabinet winning the electoral majority vote because there needs to be said

Speaker 23 if Democrats are serious about being a majority party ever again, when somebody has a disagreement, for example, if there's a pro-life Democrat, is there a place for a pro-life Democrat in the Democrat Party?

Speaker 24 Yeah, I mean, there should be. Okay.
On principle, there should be.

Speaker 23 That's a big, that's a good idea.

Speaker 24 That's a deeply held personal point of view. God bless.
I agree.

Speaker 23 Not every party or Democrat official would say that, right? And so certain states have different opinions on that.

Speaker 24 And I say this as one of the biggest champions for reproduction

Speaker 23 on the planet. Trust me, I know.

Speaker 24 That I know.

Speaker 23 But like,

Speaker 23 the issue, though, is that

Speaker 23 that is a one-stop purity test. Like, we have pro-choice Republicans.
There was a system. So Trump wasn't a pro-choice Republican.

Speaker 24 No, and Trump himself decided to pivot a little bit.

Speaker 23 He's more pro-choice than I am, like, for sure.

Speaker 23 But what I'm saying, though, is what you see in the Republican Party is the best, in my opinion, culmination of modern politics and doesn't get appreciated. Look at that ideological diversity.

Speaker 23 We have people that, you know, geez, they want to go to war with every country that says something bad against us. And then we have people that are far more dovish, you know, like Rand Paul.

Speaker 23 But that is a better, more, dare I say, diverse picture. You could say diversity is our strength.

Speaker 24 Oh, look at you. Look at Charlie Kirk.
Diversity is strength. I mean, I want to end the podcast right there.
But first.

Speaker 23 I said you could say.

Speaker 24 You could say.

Speaker 24 Do we have ultimate editing here? I'm going to go to the next one.

Speaker 23 No, you better not edit anything for the rest of it.

Speaker 24 We're not going to edit any of this.

Speaker 24 And by the way,

Speaker 24 no reason to edit any of this, despite my use of inappropriate words here and there.

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Speaker 29 On this week's episode of the Next Chapter, I, D.D.

Speaker 39 Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul, philanthropist, and global trailblazer.

Speaker 26 Every decision I have ever made

Speaker 66 has come from sitting with the Spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first?

Speaker 47 Listen to next chapter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 27 On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

Speaker 71 Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician.

Speaker 27 And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.?

Speaker 71 On health stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living.

Speaker 27 Like our episode where we look at diabetes.

Speaker 71 Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

Speaker 72 Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know.

Speaker 71 It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

Speaker 27 Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 24 Let me ask you, just on the Democratic Party side, forgive me. I do want to just look

Speaker 24 where,

Speaker 24 so our effort to get out of the wilderness, you know, on the woke culture wars, on some of these issues, on providing a more diverse

Speaker 24 campus, dare I say, of opinion and pulling people in.

Speaker 24 But what else do you, I mean, do you feel this party, I mean, you point that the Republican Party is now going to be the dominant and send it party.

Speaker 23 I don't have that kind of pride. I'm not saying, I'm saying right now we are the ascendant worldview, but we could screw this up easily.

Speaker 23 You have to have the humility to say that. But as of the recording of this podcast, we have a majority approval rating, won the electoral, I mean, all that stuff.

Speaker 24 Right. And in both houses, I mean, it tells you that.

Speaker 23 But we could screw it up. And you guys could adjust or adapt.

Speaker 24 Okay, so

Speaker 24 this was the question that I'm not articulating very effectively. But I remember so many of the similar contours of this conversation we were having in 2004 and 2005.
We just got shellacked.

Speaker 24 Both houses of Congress were Republicans. You had a Republican president that won the popular vote, vote, the last Republican president to win the popular vote.

Speaker 24 And two years later, you had Speaker Nancy Plose. Four years later, you had 53% of the vote, the highest since 1911, 16%.
It's conceivable that we have Obama.

Speaker 23 I don't say that's impossible.

Speaker 24 So what, if you were in my camp, what is...

Speaker 23 I'm not going to give you my best advice.

Speaker 23 I'll give you like the B or C level.

Speaker 24 Okay, give me the B plus level.

Speaker 23 Sorry, because the secret stuff, I'm not sure. No,

Speaker 24 what is your secret stuff? Why don't we go down to that? That's secret for me.

Speaker 23 What is it?

Speaker 24 Is it technical or is it substance?

Speaker 23 Oh, it's all that I could design your presidential run in a way.

Speaker 24 I'm not talking about a president. We're not talking about

Speaker 24 president's own. This is not about that.
No, no, no. By the way, you guys are so obsessed with the idea that every goddamn thing I do,

Speaker 24 I said it again.

Speaker 24 Yeah, I said it again because I needed your emotional reaction. That everything I do

Speaker 24 is framed in that context.

Speaker 24 Talk about Trump derangement syndrome. I think you got one with California and me.

Speaker 23 First of all,

Speaker 23 it's not new to have someone from California run for the the presidency. We just beat someone from the California presidency.

Speaker 24 California is

Speaker 23 California is to politics to the Democrat Party as Florida is to our party. You guys have the Speaker, the former Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, right?

Speaker 23 You have a lot of the ascendant political voices come out of the state. So it's not derangement syndrome.
It's no, it's knowing your enemy and looking at the horizon and understanding what's coming.

Speaker 23 But anyway, if I were to give you

Speaker 24 somebody advice on you in the BNC level stuff, which is good,

Speaker 23 you have to go to war with your own party on three major things. You got to say, we are not going to do this illegal immigration thing anymore, which includes, like, are you going to work with ICE?

Speaker 24 We do work with ICE.

Speaker 24 By the way, I want to make sure that people are going to do this.

Speaker 24 We have been.

Speaker 24 I, in fact, directly, we actually put out the data.

Speaker 24 I actually reached out to the administration saying, are you not aware that California coordinates and cooperates with all CDCR releases over 10 minutes?

Speaker 24 Explain the sanctuary state thing, then.

Speaker 24 You've got the statewide sanctuary state, and you've got to be able to do that. But government,

Speaker 24 not you. Yeah, which in the statewide framework allows us to work as it relates to issues of criminals and coordinating the release of criminals from our federal or from our state

Speaker 24 prison system. We coordinate with ICE on the deportation.
We've done that over 10,000 times since I've been governor. We're not denying access.
We're not denying coordination.

Speaker 24 I'm glad to get rid of that. That's why I asked.
For criminals. Sanctuary policy was never.

Speaker 23 I would say if you break into the country illegally, AUSC 1325 is a breaking of

Speaker 24 civil, not criminal.

Speaker 53 But it is a federal law.

Speaker 24 I get it.

Speaker 23 But I'm saying, so by the way, if you're serious about moderating the party, 8 USC 1325, vast majority Americans.

Speaker 24 So we're going to go ahead and

Speaker 24 do that.

Speaker 23 Vast majority of Americans want mass deportations.

Speaker 24 It's just the thing.

Speaker 24 Until they don't. Well, okay.
That's my humble opinion. Until they don't.
Okay.

Speaker 24 Someone is in here 10 years.

Speaker 23 You might be right. I'm paying taxes.

Speaker 24 I don't buy it.

Speaker 23 But at the moment, you're right.

Speaker 24 You might be right. The numbers bear it out.
We'll see.

Speaker 23 Number two, we mentioned the trans stuff. It's an affront to all of our senses.
It's out of control.

Speaker 24 But you don't believe in it fundamentally. It's not just sports.
It's not not style. You just don't.
I mean, again, back to the bottom.

Speaker 23 Charlie Kirk's views are separate than the political advice.

Speaker 24 If you'd like me to do a whole

Speaker 23 Charlie Kirk, ask me anything, and you can show up to Cal State North Marshall on Thursday.

Speaker 24 I've got 25 minutes talks of what your feelings are. So actually, that was a question.

Speaker 24 A question I didn't need to ask.

Speaker 23 If you want it, it's fine. I just don't think that's the best use of our time.

Speaker 23 But on the political advice, is that Americans increasingly believe that their good-heartedness and charitable nature towards the LGBT issue has gone overblown, especially with youth sports, youth curriculum, and the chemical castration of our kids when it comes to this medical therapy.

Speaker 23 And you seem that you want to really, I encourage you, governor, to learn about some of the butchery under the guise of health care that is happening under chemical castration in this state and in other states.

Speaker 23 We don't spend a lot of time on that, but the American people are overwhelmingly against it.

Speaker 24 They're overwhelmingly against it. No,

Speaker 24 I think we have to be more sensitized to that.

Speaker 23 Youth should be off limits. I think that's the political direction things are going.
You might be right on deportations.

Speaker 24 I know I'm right on this.

Speaker 23 I know that this this issue is picking up steam there is no good counter to it the cast report the united kingdom cast report the nhs came out and said there's no good reason to ever operate surgically on a young person kuberty's have the problem kuberty is the solution i think i encourage you i'm not an expert in this but i appreciate nor am i but i'm saying politically it's a soup turbocharged issue that is kicking the tail of democrats the third one though is quality of life is quality of life i agree with you on this one especially but like i mean look no i know homeless

Speaker 24 encampment is out of control unacceptable yes issues of just disqualifying

Speaker 23 crime. You know where I'm going with this.
Why is it you were able to clean it up for Xi Ji Ping?

Speaker 24 Oh, you can't clean it.

Speaker 24 That was the dumbest thing I've ever heard about. By the way, you guys weaponized that.
I saw that on 25 things.

Speaker 24 You know what? I will happily, happily revert back to your

Speaker 24 streets as weaponized.

Speaker 24 In this case, weaponized. Can I

Speaker 24 weaponize? Can I get the Xi Ji Ping street ridiculous? Give me a break.

Speaker 24 Governor.

Speaker 23 With all due respect. I saw a beautiful picture of San Francisco that looked like Singapore.
By the way, and then Xi Ji Ping leaves and the Walking Dead come in. By the way, it was AIPAC.

Speaker 24 You had dozens and dozens of foreign leaders.

Speaker 24 And California is not San Francisco, but I am the governor of California, not the mayor of California. I'm not the mayor of San Francisco.

Speaker 23 You were the mayor, but I just want to understand that.

Speaker 24 If I was the mayor, we had to clean it up.

Speaker 23 But you have to admit, it's emblematic of something that if enough important people show up, it can get clean. So why not make it clean all the time?

Speaker 24 That's exactly my, by the way, that's my energy. I think you've missed a lot of my press conferences.
I've been saying that to all these mayors.

Speaker 24 State vision is realized at the local level. It's about accountability and transparency.
If you can't clean up the streets, we're going to redirect the money.

Speaker 23 He seems to be more moderate.

Speaker 24 Great progress is being made. By the way, what's going on with homelessness in all these red states? You're seeing it through the roof.
It went up 18% across the country.

Speaker 23 I'm not here defending every red state or whatever.

Speaker 24 No, but I'm making the point. This is hardly unique to know.
I'm sure there's a lot of

Speaker 24 mayor.

Speaker 23 Quality life's huge, right? And then, like, look, the number one thing, which I know you're going to agree with, and I'm sure you'll have a super slick response, right? That's

Speaker 23 about half true. But which is

Speaker 23 the cost of housing. Average home in California, $850,000.

Speaker 24 I like what you said about BlackRock.

Speaker 24 So, yeah, I mean, I. But that was interesting to me.

Speaker 23 I think that is, but again, that's not a majority of house purchasing. About one in four houses are bought by private equity.

Speaker 23 Would you agree to say that BlackRock should not be able to own homes in California?

Speaker 24 I think, and then turning around and renting. It's insane, right? This is a huge problem.
You should propose a bill in the California state house. We've had one.

Speaker 24 It didn't get very far last year, and there's more conversations around that.

Speaker 23 A $10 trillion fund shouldn't be able to come to the house.

Speaker 24 But it's not just BlackRock specifically. I mean, what's happening in this space.

Speaker 23 Mass asset managers that have

Speaker 23 $50 billion asset under management are now competing against our college grad from

Speaker 24 Cal State Fullerton. I love that you say this.
And by the way, just in that spirit, don't you agree one of the Doge things should be dealing with the $1.5 billion of subsidies on carried interest?

Speaker 23 Oh, carried interest, I think, is a huge problem. And by the way, you know, President Trump has proposed in his tax bill that he's not going to be able to do that.

Speaker 24 Everybody proposes it all the time, but in that challenge.

Speaker 23 I mean, Joe Biden didn't get rid of carried interest.

Speaker 24 That is the holy braille of private equity.

Speaker 23 You know that.

Speaker 24 Carried interest. I mean, I get it.
But let's go back to housing.

Speaker 23 And by the way, you're going to have a revolt in Palo Alto if you get rid of carried interest licenses.

Speaker 24 They're going to light torches and like

Speaker 23 run to Sacramento.

Speaker 24 On the issue of housing, you couldn't be more right. It's the original sin in the state of California, affordability, period, full stop.

Speaker 24 And it has more impact on the issue of homelessness than any other issue because of the cost of living. By the way, we had 188,000 people in 2005, 20 years ago, on the streets and homeless in our

Speaker 24 point in time count. So this is hardly unique.
No, I'm not saying it's unique. It's moderate California.
But help me understand that. A long-term issue.
And housing is at the corner.

Speaker 23 We agree on the problem, but help me understand this. You guys control the House, the Senate with suit majorities.
You control everything. Why can't you fix it?

Speaker 23 You said you were going to build 3.5 million homes. You're building like 111,000 homes.

Speaker 24 Well, there was something called a pandemic that may have had a little impact. Issues of interest rates may have had a little impact on housing production.

Speaker 23 outpacing every other state but hold on hold on except

Speaker 24 42 cecil reform bills created a housing accountability unit

Speaker 24 and we're we're making we're making big progress we've done all the rezoning we've been pounding in this space there's no administration in modern california history that's done more to reform the housing space and the regulatory space as it relates to the issue of housing the biggest challenge right now is NIMBYism.

Speaker 24 The biggest challenge we have is local planning and zoning, and that's why we've been very aggressive.

Speaker 23 NIMBY is a disaster. We agree on that.

Speaker 24 And so I have a YIMBY mindset on all this stuff. I'm in the front lines of this.
Your friends, and they are your friends down in Huntington Beach, that I'm suing their consumers.

Speaker 24 The assassins or what are the city council?

Speaker 24 They love you. They're literally the MAGA family.
They're 99.9%. Who's living who in Ren Free and whose head?

Speaker 24 One of the smaller towns. We're suing them because of their rank NIMBYism.
We have been very aggressive in this space.

Speaker 24 I'm waiting for one big thing we all are waiting for, and I think it had a biggest, perhaps one of the biggest impacts that we don't focus on enough in the last election.

Speaker 24 That was the issue of interest rates. As interest rates,

Speaker 24 I believe they will.

Speaker 24 And you're going to see an explosion of housing production.

Speaker 24 I'm very confident in that in California.

Speaker 23 Yeah, but you also might see an increase in housing prices, of course. Well, to me, it's all about supply, right?

Speaker 24 Economy 101, supply and demand.

Speaker 23 Yeah, it's just the biggest issue. And our biggest business.
California and Hawaii have the two highest housing prices in the country. Hawaii has an obvious excuse.
They only have so much land.

Speaker 24 You guys don't have a lack of land. By the way, I haven't been governor for a century, okay?

Speaker 23 I mean, Jesus.

Speaker 24 No, I've been. I mean, we've been six years.
But hold on. But six years.
And by the way, no excuse.

Speaker 23 I get it.

Speaker 24 You can't take credit for all the assets, you know, number one AI, number one, nanotechnology, what AI is, but you also got to take responsibility for some of the parts. I'm a little more novel.

Speaker 24 I'm going to take a little more credit on the generative 32 of the topics. I'm thinking hard to balance both the credit and the

Speaker 23 blame.

Speaker 24 No, I appreciate it.

Speaker 23 But quality of life, right?

Speaker 23 So when I talked to a college kid, one of the reasons they saw Trump as a vessel for a better life is that under President Trump, those first four years, we saw a material increase in their livelihood, wages, easier to buy a home, four years, four years later.

Speaker 23 Just the facts are the average wage to be able to own a home in L.A., to be able to own a home.

Speaker 24 Oh, yeah, insane.

Speaker 23 It used to be $75,000 a year. Now it's $145,000 a year.
So

Speaker 23 what it does, and this is, again, it's creating. this kind of belief system of Russian serfs of a generation that will never have the material American dream that their parents once enjoyed.

Speaker 24 Yeah, no, and look, I think it's a full circle on this conversation where you began by identifying. I'll circle back.
No, but it's a point.

Speaker 24 But the point you're making, Scott Galloway and others have been making as it relates to this generational theft. Yes.
He's spot on on this.

Speaker 24 And I think there's so much validity to you recognizing that problem.

Speaker 24 So diagnosing is one thing.

Speaker 23 And President Trump as well. He deserves credit.

Speaker 24 And I mean, I think, yeah,

Speaker 24 he deserves interest.

Speaker 23 I'm going to get you to say the words.

Speaker 24 By the way, I just spent almost 90 minutes with him in the Oval Office a couple of weeks ago. Isn't he the greatest? And, you know, I think it was the first Democrat invited in in Trump 2020.

Speaker 24 I mean, you got to admit, there's something magical, that guy.

Speaker 23 I mean,

Speaker 23 Joe Biden couldn't do five minutes.

Speaker 24 By the way, I did almost 90 minutes with Biden right before he left in the Oval Day.

Speaker 23 By the way, that'd be a hell of a book.

Speaker 24 90, you know, 180 minutes. I should do a book of the two of the bookmarks.

Speaker 24 By the way, he 100% was.

Speaker 23 Oh, come on, God.

Speaker 24 Just a fact.

Speaker 24 It's just, you can.

Speaker 23 Do you think there was any mental department?

Speaker 24 No, no, seriously.

Speaker 23 You went around the country being like, I'll take him at 100%.

Speaker 24 There was one exception. And the debate? no no no before the debate i was about to say uh and that was the big fundraiser down in la where i saw a different

Speaker 23 the clooney and and clooney called that out black right but it was one it was not that was but you know so much of that focus was all right he just got back from europe but that was the one one time we don't need to get it but i'm not but i i just say governor i'm just on that one topic we saw with our own eyes for three years and the media told us no no he's perfectly fine yeah and then we saw the debate and look it makes us not trust our leaders when we say everyone is perfectly fine.

Speaker 24 The emperor is fine. Are you seeing any mental decline in Donald Trump, right?

Speaker 23 No, I see the more sharp acuity.

Speaker 24 You tell me you sat with him in the Oval Office for 90 minutes. The guy has a memory of

Speaker 24 I'm asking. I mean, I know.
I'm just asking you. Of course not.
No, I think he's not. How often do you talk to Trump, by the way?

Speaker 23 Once or twice a week.

Speaker 24 Is he checking for advice or is he you?

Speaker 24 A little bit of votes.

Speaker 23 It depends if there's something I want to talk to him about. But I mean, he's just a machine.
He'll take every call.

Speaker 24 You got to give him credit. Isn't it amazing?

Speaker 24 Every call thing is big, right? It's amazing.

Speaker 23 And he'll listen to every idea. He'll joust it out.
He'll talk about it. He always goes back to what did I promise the voters.

Speaker 24 What was the last idea you gave him?

Speaker 23 The last idea.

Speaker 24 Yeah, it was like, Mr. President,

Speaker 24 here's what you need, or here's the thought.

Speaker 23 Here's my situation. Actually, it was interesting.
I said, I don't think Canada should be the 51st state. We already have California and we have enough libs in our country.

Speaker 24 Jesus, on that,

Speaker 23 thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain.

Speaker 24 No, on that, that I want to thank you. This is Gavin Newsom.
This has been

Speaker 24 Gavin Newsom production.

Speaker 24 Thanks. This was fun.
Thanks, Matt.

Speaker 73 This is the story of the one. As head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on.

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Speaker 25 What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kev on Stage.

Speaker 53 I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who've had massive success about their massive failures.

Speaker 53 What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it?

Speaker 54 I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash.
I don't know how you got on the show.

Speaker 56 Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 26 I could feel inside myself at four or five years old, looking through the screen on the back porch, that this is not going to be my life.

Speaker 47 Listen to the next chapter on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 27 On the podcast, Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

Speaker 71 I'm Dr. Priyankawali, a double board certified physician.

Speaker 27 And I'm Hari Kundabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes.

Speaker 71 Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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