And, This is Aaron Parnas (Live on Substack!)

This is an iHeart podcast.

This is Gavin Newsom.

Introduce yourself for the first time on this new platform.

Tell them why you're on and kind of what you're doing on here.

I'm on because you're on and others are on and people are having two-way conversations.

And, you know, I think this notion of one-way conversations and broadcasts don't work anymore.

So it's a great opportunity to be able to meet people where they are and to have more substantive and long-form conversations.

So I'm really grateful.

It's a great opportunity.

First time.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Super excited to have you.

I think a lot of folks have seen you over the past couple of weeks, especially on Midas Touch, on Fred Wellman.

You're doing new media more than really other leaders in the Democratic Party.

Do you feel like is the future for Democrats?

You know, the Democrats should follow your lead here.

Yeah, I don't even think it's the future.

I think it's where we are now.

You know, and I think if we don't recognize that, we're not going to reconcile where our standing is as it relates to the asymmetry of our communication challenges as a party.

And look,

I don't know how, you know, I think it was Tucker Carlson even today who basically

was tacking Fox or yesterday with Steve Bannon.

And, you know,

when Tucker Carlson is saying it's in essence a propaganda network, I think that's just everything you need to know, but it's effective, just like Pravda was effective.

And it is a communication arm of the Trump administration.

And their surround sound and their ability to shape-shift conversations to put us on the defense is next level.

And so I think it's foundational, it's fundamental to quote unquote our path back that we start to get more aggressive in mediums like this and build our own capacity, our own capacity, not just to push back against that, but to truly expand that network of communication and engagement.

Well, I got to ask you this morning, you kind of went into the lion's den writing a Fox News op-ed titled, Trump is Trying to Destroy Our Democracy.

Do not let him.

What was that op-ed about for those who didn't read?

And why did you choose Fox News?

Well, because you got to meet people where they are, and you've got to hit people that are, you know, that we haven't, quote unquote, already persuaded.

and i think one of the things that i i think people have criticized me and i totally i deeply appreciate i'm very i'm probably more self-critical than anybody listening or watching i'm not even making that up like actually and so i use the word humility and grace all the time and and i'm constantly trying to iterate and try new things and it's in that process of discovery and so for years um i've been screaming and yelling saying we got to get out of our own bubble and i was screaming and yelling about it but i wasn't doing it so it's one thing to preach it's another to practice so So I started, you know, I said, called Sean Hannity.

I said, hey, you've been attacking me every single damn night.

Invited him to Ronald Reagan's old mansion, the governor's mansion in California.

And we sat down for an unscripted hour and 20 minutes.

I said, the only rule is no editing.

Let's have this conversation and put it up.

And he did, to his credit, and ended up not only being on Fox in a few of those kind of interviews, did a debate with Ron DeSantis and, you know, just started to reach, sort of breach that bubble, like just sort of pierce it it a little bit and get in.

So, you know, I'm trying to, there's, there's, there's a huge percentage, a lot, a lot of folks, a lot of Democrats, a lot of independents, a lot of persuadables watching Fox every night and

reading Fox.

And so that's why I did that op-ed there.

And look, I think it's self-evident.

We all know what's happening to our democracy.

We all know what's happening to the, you know, the endearing values of our founding fathers.

I said all the time, the best of the Roman Republic and Greek democracy, co-equal, co-equal branches of government, popular sovereignty, this notion of system of checks and balances.

And, you know, we've seen just the total corruption of Speaker Johnson, who's completely capitulated and rolled over.

There's no checks and balances left in Congress.

They're a lapdog of the Trump administration.

That means there's one left, and that's the courts.

And we're about to go into court quite literally in a few minutes.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, two out of three of the judges on our panel are Trump judges on a lawsuit.

But the point is we're counting on the courts and we're counting on people that showed up in record numbers over the weekend, unprecedented protests, which is amazing

to hold up this democracy.

Well, I want to ask you both about the protests, but also about this court hearing.

Can you tell folks what this court hearing is about?

It's about, I'm assuming, the ICE agents being able to work with Marines to kind of go into homes, into communities, and conduct these raids.

But can you give some more elaboration as to what folks need to know about this hearing and kind of what your expectation is, given the fact that there are two Trump judges on this circuit panel today.

Yeah.

So, I mean, so this is about federalism.

This is about 10th Amendment.

This is about the rule of law.

This is about our Constitution.

It's about, you know, this idea that, you know,

the founding fathers,

you know, their response to a monarchy and king was

this.

you know, thing we frankly times take for granted.

And so

that's what ultimately is being tested here.

And that's the theory that Donald Trump can unilaterally decide

to militarize the streets of America.

It happens to be in L.A.

now.

It will be in your city next.

He did a national order, which, by the way, is the point about this being your city next.

It's not unique to California that allows him to,

if there's a protest, to unilaterally under this Section 12406,

under the,

I don't want to get into more details, but under a rubric that's well established as it relates to Title X

under his authority,

the federalization of the National Guard, to decide to militarize by commandeering the National Guard, which he's done in California.

4,000 National Guards, men and women, have been taken out of my command.

And by the way, taken off the beat of Dewey Forest Management, vegetation management.

Three quarters.

of what we refer to as our rattlesnake teams that were preparing for wildfire season now have been pulled off.

I've counter drug task forces to deal with fentanyl.

They've been pulled off the counter drug task forces, including on border issues where they've been deployed for almost six years.

They've been pulled off, including now the streets where a lot of these are police officers, members of law enforcement in their day jobs, and now been commandeered by the president of the United States for ICE enforcement.

And so that's fundamentally a question at hand.

We won a case, 36-page

injunctive belief that we got from Justice Breyer last week, and they immediately ran it to the appellate court.

And today at noon will determine our fate.

And if, you know, we're successful, and I believe we should be and will be,

that will be a big day in the rule of law.

Well, I guess we'll see what happens next.

I will say I think that this is an issue that has broken through really like none other, immigration enforcement, specifically because it's impacting every community, Republican, Democrat, Independent, doesn't really matter.

And I think we saw that over the weekend with no Kings Day protests, about 5 million folks conservatively nationwide, hundreds of thousands in Los Los Angeles, San Diego.

What's your reaction to the protests on the ground?

People stepped up, they stepped in, and they're the antidote.

I've said it.

I said it in a speech the other night.

I mean, you're the antidote to that fear, anxiety, the cynicism you may be feeling, all that stacking of stress.

And, you know, that stacking of stress is real, not just the stress of the last five months and all things Trump.

But look, I mean, everything you guys have been, everybody.

buddy's been through, right?

The pandemic and social unrest, you know, George Floyd, you know, you know, the macroeconomic challenges, supply supply chain disruptions, and obviously now just this, this, you know, this next level disruption and authoritarian tendencies that we're all trying to push back against against the Trump administration.

But people,

what was so amazing about this weekend is it showed people haven't given up.

And that's extraordinary.

And I think, you know, it's, you know, there's an old adage, you know, in business, we talk about success leaves clues, the power of emulation.

And I think the more people show up, the more people feel like they're not alone, and the more likely others will start to show up.

And there's a contagion in a positive sense here.

And that was on display over the weekend.

And that's honestly like that's if I have any hope left, that's it.

Because I'm not, you know, you know, look at looking at what's happened to Congress, look at what's happening in our institutions, looking at what's happening to law firms that are capitulating and selling out, look what's happening to ethics and

these attacks and assaults on our courts.

What's left is we, the people

and the power of people organizing and expressing themselves.

I mean, that's why I quoted Justice Brandeis.

In a democracy, the most important office, sorry, Donald Trump, it ain't the presidency.

The most important office is office of citizen, active, not inert citizenship.

And that's what we're seeing.

And I think it's important to note that the overwhelming majority of those protests were peaceful across the country.

They were peaceful.

People were, I mean, the San Diego PD tweeted out saying, thank you for being peaceful.

Thank you for exercising your First Amendment right.

I had my nieces and my nephews out there.

My sister was out there.

And they had, you know, crayon and they were doing their own signs.

I mean, it was next level peaceful.

And what a point of contrast to the weaponization of the extreme exceptions that you see on some of these propaganda networks that said otherwise.

So, no, and that's, by the way, it's critical.

One of,

forgive me, it's an aside.

One of the most extraordinary things that

I've been able to do as governor was getting to know this guy, James Lawson.

And some folks may know who he is, some people may not.

Passed away recently.

And James Lawson was the one that introduced Dr.

King

to Gandhi and nonviolent protests.

And he was living in Los Angeles during the George Floyd.

And I had a chance.

Someone introduced me and said, boy, you really.

need to meet Reverend Lawson.

You talk about moral authority.

Man, like you're just in this presence.

And I didn't, I'd never met him.

I'm like, you just, just, you're thunderstruck.

And I remember being in a roundtable meeting with leaders of the, of, uh, of, of BLM and others that were out there protesting.

And he started reading them the riot act.

He said, this is not the way we did it.

And I'm sort of sitting back on, and he starts lecturing them, saying, you got to have a plan.

You got to have a strategy.

And you cannot be violent.

And you cannot condone violence.

And he talked about the power, again, moral authority and movements and how movements

become sustainable.

And I just reminded of that.

It's so important

that we are reminded of our better angels.

And we cannot condone the violence.

We cannot allow for that.

It hurts the movement.

It sets us back.

And it's exactly what Trump wants.

You're just handing it to him.

That's what he's looking for.

So he can further command and control, so we can further militarize the streets of the United States.

It's exactly what he wants.

Let's not give it to him.

Now, Governor, final question.

And before you go, I want everyone to go and subscribe.

Click the top left corner here and subscribe to the governor's sub stack.

What's your message to folks who are worried or afraid or scared who want?

answers, but they feel like they don't really have them right now.

What's your message to them?

You just keep doing what you're doing.

The fact that you're even even listening to this means back to, you know, you haven't given up.

The fact that you're still in the game, you still care, you still care about your kids, you'll care about your family, your community, this nation, the world we're trying to build.

You're, you know, look, this is

the moment.

I mean, we're in it.

We are in it.

And

it goes in two directions.

We can roll over.

You know, we can let him succeed.

We can watch, you know, this 250-year experiment completely collapse on itself.

But we also have incredible power and resilience to push back.

And so I just, I pray, I mean this.

It's not a politician saying this, man.

I got four kids and, you know, and I know we're out of time, but I'm not making this up.

I was with a 12-year-old.

I got a 12-year-old daughter.

I was with a 12-year-old the other day down in Oxnard, California.

And I can't unsee this.

I can't unexperience this.

Both of his parents were snatched from him.

20 plus years going in the same fields in Oxnard.

He was born here.

He's a sixth grader.

Tears rolling down, I mean, streaming down.

He couldn't even look me in the face because every time he tried to talk, he just started to break down.

That's Donald Trump's America.

He took his mom and dad.

We just found his mom.

They just found his mom in a detention facility.

He was left with nobody.

He has no brothers and sisters.

There was no one to take care of him that night.

That's, And Donald Trump is trying to tear this country apart.

He's going after blue cities.

He's going after blue states.

He's not the president of the United States.

He's asserting himself exclusively as the president of red states.

And we cannot allow that to happen.

But we can't turn into him is my long-winded point.

Don't turn in to him.

We're better than that.

Everyone wants to be loved.

Everyone needs to be loved.

We all want to be protected.

We all want to be connected.

And we all want to be respected.

And so I just, I pray that people recognize that we're all better off.

We're all better off.

We're all in this together.

Divorce is not a damn option.

I'll keep going on.

I'm just saying, man, don't

give up.

And yes, divorce is not an option.

And so I'm just counting on people.

And, you know, again, I say that just selfishly as a dad.

And so thank, I just, I appreciate anybody that tuned in.

And thank you for tuning up in terms of being accountable to this moment.

Society becomes how we behave.

We are our our behaviors.

Bottom line: it's not things are not happening to us, they're happening with us.

And so, we have the ability to manifest a better future.

It's decisions, not conditions.

So, I think everybody, let's make the wise choices and let's not give in to this cynicism and let's keep at it.

You heard it here first, Governor.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Go subscribe to the governor's substack.

This was amazing.

Hope to have you again soon.

I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me on.

All right.

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