And, This is Trump's Invasion With JB Pritzker & Tina Kotek

This is not what Americans want to see.

The only invasion or mayhem that's occurring is happening because the Trump administration is visiting it upon our city.

This is not who we are as Americans.

We have checks and balances.

We have the courts.

In June of this year, in the second largest city in the United States of America,

President of the United States called up 700 active duty Marines.

He didn't send them overseas, he sent them to an American city.

It was just days after he had federalized some 4,000 National Guard, unprecedented act,

done not at the behest of the state's governor, myself, but against my advice, my counsel, certainly against my consent.

We said at the time this was a preview of things to come.

A few months later, we saw what happened in another major American city in Washington, D.C., with the militarization of their streets.

And of course, since then, we've seen similar actions by this president and Christine Noam and Homeland Security in other major American cities, not least of which just in the last few days in Chicago, Illinois, Portland, Oregon.

And the anticipation is we're going to see additional actions by this president all across the United States of America.

This is unprecedented in modern American history.

This is, dare I say, a constitutional crisis.

But it's also a crisis that not only divides, but also brings people together.

And one of the things that I've enjoyed perhaps

more than

most aspects of my job is working collaboratively and getting to know some of America's outstanding leaders.

Leaders like J.V.

Pritzker, leaders like Tina Kotek, both now on the front lines of this constitutional crisis, on the front lines as it relates to the militarization of their city and their state's streets.

And it's such a treat, opportunity to be able to connect not only with both of them in private, but now to connect with them in public.

I don't think we've had this kind of dialogue in this kind of forum

before.

And I'm looking forward to the conversation.

I hope you'll enjoy this conversation with both J.B.

Pritzker and Tina Kotek

on this unique podcast.

this is Gavin Newsom, and this is J.B.

Pritzker and Tina Kotek.

This is an iHeart podcast.

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I'm really pleased.

This is a great and rare opportunity to have two remarkable leaders in the thick of things right now, Governor of the great state of Illinois and the great state of Oregon on the front lines of this growing constitutional crisis, this sort of relentless and unprecedented overreach from the federal government.

What's happening on the streets of Chicago and Portland are obviously in the news and top of mind.

But I'm really pleased to have JB and Tino with me to be able to compare and contrast and to talk about the world we're living in and what defines this moment.

But at this moment, Governor Pritzker, I'm told that you just have some news from a court that has adjudicated on the possibility of a temporary restraining order.

That's right.

Well, great to see you both.

And the TRO has been granted by Judge Perry here in Illinois.

And she

is reading her oral decision right now.

We're getting it literally blow by blow, but she began by saying she's granting it in part.

And so we're waiting because honestly, most of what she's read so far has been a complete victory on the TRO, but there must be some piece of it that she's not granting.

So we're waiting to hear about that.

But she is basically questioning the credibility of dhs and ice and cbp in all of what they have reported uh she is uh has gotten a lot of reports from local and state law enforcement about what's going on uh puts credibility in that uh and those are our folks here in illinois so we're very pleased so far with the ruling but i i promise you before we're done we'll probably have the end of her uh oral decision and i'll be able to give you whatever the in-part piece is i appreciate it Governor.

It just goes to the nature of this moment and how fast-paced, hour by hour things are.

There's so many court proceedings that are underway, not least of which here in California and obviously in Oregon as well.

But before I get to Tina, just JB on that, paint the picture of

what you went to court for what specific reason to push back against what specific action by the president.

Yeah.

So what's going on on the ground here is that there are Texas National Guard that have been federalized.

They already have arrived.

Our Illinois National Guard also have been federalized.

They're in process of gathering and there's some training that the president has ordered.

We're a little bit unaware of what that training will be, but we know where it will take place.

And then actually,

Gavin, we have about 14 California National Guard that are on the ground here.

They were diverted after the decision in Oregon,

And we don't know whether we'll see more.

We just know right now there are 14.

So, you know, this is, I mean, I've called it an invasion because when you look at the numbers that they're calling up, 500 National Guardsmen,

these are not folks who are trained to do, you know, policing or any kind of

crime fighting.

They're terrific, by the way, all of our National Guards.

We send them abroad to defend our country, and they do an amazing job at that.

But the idea that they should act as some sort of

protection against crime or to

protect the facilities here or the ICE officials on the ground, ridiculous.

So, I mean, they should be used for what they're trained to do, which is to fight wars or here in our state, of course, and in yours too,

emergencies that we need to call them up for, whether it was COVID or flooding or anything else.

So it's interesting.

We're very proud of our National Guard and I don't want anybody to get the idea otherwise.

We just want them to be used for what they signed up for.

It's such an important predicate for this conversation is the respect and admiration, the reverence we have for these men and women in uniform being used in unprecedented ways, I think abused under the circumstances.

And I just want to paint the picture of those circumstances because you're right.

We had 14 of our National Guard men and women that were sent originally to Oregon against, again, our objections.

They'd already been federalized by the Trump administration, sent to do quote-unquote training up in Oregon.

And then a judge not dissimilarly

issued

adjudication, a TRO in favor of Governor Kotek in your work.

And then we're sent, those 14

to Chicago.

But let's talk a little bit about what's happening in Portland right now.

What's happening in Oregon?

And where are you on some of these court decisions, Governor?

Well, thank you, and thanks for having us, Gavin.

First of all, I want to thank both of you

to know that I can pick up the phone and we can have a conversation.

You know, and JP, I'm sorry this is happening to the people of Illinois.

And when it was happening in California, we were feeling the same way about things in your home state, Gavin.

This is not how it should go, right?

In our case,

you know, I wake up on a Saturday morning and

the president is tweeting or on social media saying, we should send full forces to Oregon.

And I'm like, what are you talking about, right?

We have a nice facility, one block radius, and, you know, the city is doing well.

You know, we have our challenges, but you know, people are living their lives here.

And I'm like, what is the reality check when the president believes he needs to go over the top of governors to pull in military intervention into the city?

He first wanted to call up the Oregon National Guard.

We went to court and got a temporary restraining order because, and I think you're seeing it in JB's case as well, the judges are looking at the facts on the ground.

They're talking to local law enforcement.

They're trying to understand, does the president have the ability to call this an insurrection and a rebellion?

He does not, right?

And so in our case, we go to court.

The judge says, by the way, a federal judge appointed by President Trump in his first term, says, hey, facts on the ground don't match.

This is a no.

You can't do this.

So they start appealing to the Ninth Circuit Court, which is where we are now.

And then they start trying to move Texas and California to Oregon.

Texas troops, California troops.

The judge comes in on a special hearing on a Sunday night and says, you didn't hear me the first time.

That's a no.

You can't do that.

So, you know, we need the courts.

They are with us.

We need the rule of law to stand up against this.

This is not what Americans want to see.

They don't want to see their citizen soldiers in the streets of American cities.

And it's not about our three states, it's about every state.

So the state of mind of the Trump administration, Tina, and JB, seems to be that it's just, they paint a picture of lawlessness and complete chaos, that you, we, all of us, are overwhelmed by the facts on the ground.

And all he's doing is advancing the fundamental paradigm of law and order.

And it's remarkable that we are not more grateful and saying thank you, Mr.

President.

So paint the picture.

I mean, is it chaos, complete insanity in Portland, Oregon, as we speak?

Is the city being burned down, as the president described?

Portland is not burning.

We are not a military target.

So when this first started, Portlanders were a little like, I don't know if abuse is the right word because people are still scared.

You know, they're scared about the immigration enforcement.

We have immigrant communities that are concerned.

People are worried about the Trump administration.

But they're like, what is this national news thing saying there's a problem in my city?

I'm out shopping.

I'm going to the park.

I'm running in a marathon in downtown Portland.

People are, they're going to social media and be like, this is not a war zone, right?

Showing all their photos.

And that absurdity has now moved into complete

disbelief, right?

Because it continues to go on, right?

We had Secretary, Homeland Security Secretary here earlier this week.

I'm like, okay, great.

She's going to be on the ground.

She's going to see what's happening.

And then they go to DC and say, we're lying.

We don't understand the situation.

You know, this is organized domestic terrorism.

It is shocking.

Everyone is just kind of shaking their head here.

They don't understand it.

And now it's just become chilling and worrisome.

So speaking of chilling, JB, we saw those images of people descending from helicopters in the dead of night, armed masked men going into

apartment building, people quite literally asleep, people without clothing.

We've seen in the middle of the day, tear gasping dispensed.

I mean, those images are indeed chilling.

Give us a sense of what you're dealing with specifically on the ground in Chicago.

The only invasion or mayhem that's occurring is happening because the Trump administration is visiting it upon our city.

You saw that, that South Shore building in Chicago, middle of the night, Blackhawk helicopters.

We had ICE agents rappelling out of this military helicopter down the side of this building.

It has about 130 people in it.

They were targeting a few.

I'm talking about a single-digit number of people that they said were gang members.

But the 130 people had their doors broken down,

their windows broken.

Everything was ransacked in the building.

We saw pictures and video of all of it.

They took innocent people out and zip-tied their hands, children, I might add.

And a number of these people were U.S.

citizens and others were legal residents of the state of Illinois and the United States of America.

And yet they were held for hours.

And

these ICE agents, first of all, I don't think they really have been trained in law enforcement.

Our CPD, Chicago Public, sorry, Police Department, as well as our Illinois State Police, we know that when we're targeting gang members, and we do this with DEA and with FBI also,

when we target them,

we determine where they are in a building, and then we make sure that we keep innocent people away from that area and we protect them while we go in and take people out.

That's not what happened here.

We had over 100 agents attacking a building.

It looked like Fallujah.

And they, one other thing, they set up dozens of cameras for social media purposes purposes ahead of this.

And then they used all of that footage to turn it into this sort of, I don't know, adventure-looking

thing for Christy Noam's social media.

So they could, I'm not sure, advertise the idea to what people joining ICE.

I'm not sure exactly who they were trying to convince, but it all looked like BS in their social media.

It was BS, in fact, on the ground.

And the result is we have traumatized children.

We've got elderly people, again, who are held for hours.

We've got an entire community around this building who's wondering, like, are they next?

And this is what's happening all across the city of Chicago, this kind of trauma that's occurring in our communities.

People are afraid to go outside.

They can't walk their kids to school.

Again, if you're brown or black, you're liable to be stopped and held.

And this is in a circumstance where, you know, again, children trying to get to school and their parents trying to walk them there.

I went to an elementary school and there were children there who were worried that at the end of the school day, when they walked home, their parents might not be home, that they will have been taken away and disappeared.

And that's the word we hear all the time, disappeared.

And just to underscore, Governor, what you just said, I mean, it's sanctioned now.

It's been sanctioned under the shadow docket, the Supreme Court, that the Trump administration can racially profile on the basis, not just of skin color, but also where people congregate and the accent or the language they speak which is chilling beyond words but you you you mentioned just the video side of this and the promotional side of this and you of course brought up Christy Noam and and and Tina you just met with Christy Noam did you not

was she she was up in Portland you have a chance to engage in dialogue with her

Yeah, I found out through unofficial channels the day before that she was coming to town.

And so I reached out and said, hey, can we meet?

It's interesting to see a cabinet secretary traveling with right-wing social media influencers it's interesting to see that same cabinet secretary standing on a federal building with those same types of folks with you know with filming and other things this is a made-for-TV movie that they are producing

to try to make a point you know I thought we could have a you know reasonable conversation, but you know, it's hard to have a rational conversation with irrational people.

You know, then Secretary Numb goes back and has a, you know, a meeting at the White House just yesterday talking about, you know, Antifa

and the way they talk about it.

I don't know what they're talking about.

It doesn't, any expert on anything in this country is just perplexed by what they're trying to say about what is happening in our major cities.

And so I just come back to what are the facts on the ground?

What does it mean to keep our community safe?

We have a president and an administration that doesn't care about the safety of Americans.

Look, you take an oath to the Constitution as the President of the United States, as we do as governors.

Our job is to stand up and protect everybody in our state, and his job is to protect everybody in our country.

But what I heard from the Secretary was we have the right and

with impunity to be as aggressive with military policing tactics that we want to use, and we don't care if it upsets people, and we don't care if it creates more tension and more problems for your city.

They literally don't care.

And I want to get to the more problems and more tension and what lies underneath this and ask you both in a moment what you believe this is really all about if it's not about the issue of crime.

But I'm old enough to remember, I think you both are as well, there was a governor by the name of Noam, Christy Noam, who just last year

was on Fox News, outraged.

outraged by the very notion that then President Joe Biden would consider, rumored, as it was at the time, consider to federalize her National Guard, she said, as governor of her home state.

She said that would be a clear constitutional violation and we would have, quote unquote, a war, she said, on our hands.

Did that come up in your conversation?

Was it a meacopa?

Was there an expression of complete recognition of her hypocrisy?

Well, that would have had me falling off the chair.

No, we did not see that, right?

We didn't see any kind of like, hey, I see where where you're coming from.

I used to be a governor.

It was the sense that

just, you know, you should be trusting your governors.

You should be trusting the people who are there.

And as a former governor, she should know better.

Every state is under threat now.

Every state.

And we got to remember that.

We don't want our guards people.

We don't want active military in our streets.

This is the United States of America.

That is not who we are.

Yeah, and just to underscore that, I mean, a few months ago, of course, we saw 4,000 federalized guard and we saw 700 active duty Marines.

We saw active duty Marines that weren't sent overseas.

They were sent to the second largest city on American streets.

And we still have hundreds of Federalized Guards.

200

are still in your state doing absolutely nothing.

Those 14 that were sent to quote-unquote train the Guard in JB's state and the rest sitting in the armories here doing, again, nothing in Los Angeles.

So it begs the question, JB, what the hell is this all about?

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I mean, what do you think at the core is really going on here?

Well, I just just want to go back for just a moment to say the another governor that signed on to that same

letter to President Biden and who spoke out against the deployment and federalization of troops was Greg Abbott in Texas.

So, and FYI, you signed on and I signed on and all of the governors across the country signed on to that same notion that really there should be extremely limited circumstances where the federal government is federalizing, and obviously for foreign wars, for protecting the homeland from outside.

That is something that we all believe in.

But anyway, I just wanted to highlight that Greg Abbott,

just in case,

two people that don't know,

it's Texas, Greg Abbott sent against the objections of Governor Pritzker, sent the Texas National Guard into Chicago.

Remind us, Governor, how many National Guard from Texas were sent up to your state?

200 National Guard arrived yesterday.

They are gathered at a federal facility.

I have not allowed them to stay at our state facilities.

And they have not yet deployed onto the streets of Chicago, I might add, because they were waiting at the judge's behest for her decision.

So, and we still are awaiting the end of the delivery of her decision, which I'll give you before the end if I can.

But here's what I think it's all about.

And I think you have to add in, so I think we all understand they're deploying troops into major American cities.

And right now,

all

blue cities, Democratic-controlled cities, in blue Democratic-controlled states, you could include Washington, D.C.

in that as well.

So

why those places?

And then add to this: so it's ICE CBP, ICE, which just is getting about $100 billion

to beef up front.

That's about 10 times what it was

under President Biden

in the Big Beautiful bill.

So they're obviously doing something here that has never been done before.

Then add to that, all 50 states had our voter rolls

called up by the DOJ, subpoenaed.

We had to deliver our voter rolls.

Why?

They didn't tell us why,

but they have hinted that, well, there might be fraud.

They're going to look through our voter rolls.

Very private information, in addition to people's names and addresses, other private information that are included in those voter files.

We've rejected, we haven't sent

that information in.

We've only given them what's publicly available.

But here's what's important about this.

I believe that what they're going to do is use the voter rolls that they have to try to make a claim next year at election time in November, if they're losing the election, that there is fraud in the elections in whatever states they want to claim that,

and that therefore those elections either should be disregarded.

or that they should be able to count the ballots themselves.

So why do I think that?

Because in 2020, when they were saying stop the steal, when they were rioting at January 6th at the Capitol,

Michael Flynn was calling for the president to confiscate the ballot boxes and determine the results of the election himself.

And then, you know, this is, I just, you know, want to give everybody, I'm not a conspiracy theorist type.

I'm just somebody who has watched enough about Donald Trump to know that he believes in this idea that there's massive fraud that could take place, or at least he believes enough that he could convince a lot of people of it.

And

he believes in militarizing our city.

He's been talking about taking over Chicago with the military for more than a decade, like before he was president the first time.

So this is what I think he's got in mind.

Posting people at polling places in 2026 wouldn't surprise me at all to deter people from voting.

It would scare a lot of people I know from the polling places.

But why would he do it?

Again, scare them away, claim that he's protecting the voting, and then, of course, declare fraud wherever it is that he believes he isn't winning.

Yes, Governor, let me just reinforce that.

And those are sobering words.

And I don't want to,

I hope people are absorbing what you just said and also how you said it in the context of even being situationally aware that you did say it, meaning you're not prone to conspiracy theories.

The idea, it may sound absurd to some, but I'll just underscore that.

Look, I think there's a direct thread that comes from the call he made to Greg Abbott about finding five seats that he's quote unquote entitled to because he knows all things being equal, he's going to lose the midterm elections.

And de facto, his presidency ends.

Sure, there'll be fire and fury, but there'll finally be congressional oversight.

There'll be some accountability.

And that's why he is trying to rig the next election.

Obviously, when you nationalize or federalize the guard and you put these guard all across the country, increasingly we're seeing that, as you suggest, growing city by city.

But you add to that what you said, which is now the ability to hire an additional, with that $100 billion, 10,000 members of ICE, the largest domestic police force anywhere in the world that, my words, seemingly are increasingly swearing an oath of office, not to the Constitution, but by some activity and actions that we've seen firsthand here to the president himself,

i.e.

what he did at the Democracy Center when we kicked off our Proposition 50 and he sent ICE and he sent Border Patrol to scare people from participating in our event.

This is a preview of things to come at voting booths and polling places all across the country.

Long-winded way of saying, I could not agree, Governor, with you more.

This is about something much more insidious than just control in the short run.

This is about power in the long run.

This is a president who believes in the absolute power that he thinks he has.

He told a room full of hundreds of military generals

that it's an okay idea to put our military troops, federalizing the National Guard, into our cities for practice.

We can't allow this to be normalized because the authoritarianism is going to creep up on us.

We have to know that this is wrong.

This is not who we are as Americans.

We have checks and balances.

We have the courts.

The states have rights.

Governors have a role to play.

This is not how our democracy should operate.

Regardless of what, even if that theory, which I think sounds like a really strong one, isn't true, we should all agree.

That when you just get comfortable with troops in your cities,

bad things are going to happen.

And not only are bad things that happen, they were anticipated in this context.

The founding fathers created a framework, obviously, you know, three co-equal branches of government, popular sovereignty, the rule of law,

and that fundamental system of checks and balances is not in balance right now because you have a supine speaker, Johnson, and Congress, that are nowhere to be found.

And so I want to go to this issue of rule of law because both of you, not both of you, all of us have been the beneficiary of federal judges, some appointed by Trump himself, as Tina, you rightfully

referenced,

that have all adjudicated in favor of this overreach.

So how confident are you, JB, Tina, are you in the rule of law?

How confident are you in the courts?

Well, let me say that

I've been pleased to see the decisions so far in these cases.

And I'll give you an update before we're finished because I did just get an update.

But I'll just tell you, I'm not

very confident about what the Supreme Court will do.

These are, as you know, a plurality of judges that were appointed by Donald Trump himself.

So I'm concerned about what will happen at that level.

But we have to rely on our courts at the moment.

That really is the only place that we can go for justice.

I'm not going to break the law here.

I don't do what Donald Trump does.

He threatens to jail you, Gavin, and me.

This is a guy who's been convicted of 34 felonies.

So I find that ironic.

But mostly, I...

By the way, JV, you and I are going to count on Tina to get us out of jail.

Tina.

I got you back.

I will get you out.

I will come forward.

I will be there for you.

Cake with a file inside would be helpful.

Thank you.

But, you know, look,

I think we have to rely on our courts and believe in the law and the Constitution of the United States.

It is working so far with regard to this federalization of troops

and in a number of other instances.

I don't agree with some of the court rulings so far in other cases around the Supreme Court, of course.

But again,

what we're focused on, I mean, the three of us, is making sure that we're able to get justice somewhere because we're not able to get it from a Congress that isn't doing any oversight.

We're definitely not able to get it from a president who, in my mind, is suffering from dementia.

And, you know, you don't know from one day to the next what he's going to decide or what power he's going to invoke that's never been invoked before.

And how the people around him, Tom Holman, Christy Holman, I mean, Christy Noam,

Greg Bovino at CBP, how they're going to carry out things that he may not even know about, because it does appear that he doesn't do any reading or studying or even questioning.

So

I'm concerned about all that, but again, I'm focused on, I think we can get justice in the courts.

And Tina's example of the Trump-appointed judge ruling

as she did,

you know, is, I think, a good sign.

You know, it's interesting.

I don't want to fall prey to

the president's state of mind, but not lost on me, just in terms of the way you framed it and how much Donald Trump cares about truth, building trust, facts, and is interested in lifelong learning.

He was asked today about habeas corpus and asked, said, who?

Who?

Habeas, who?

In relationship to what's happening in your backyard, Tina.

President of the United States.

And remember, this is why we fought the American Revolution, right?

We fought for the rule of law.

We fought for being protected by an entity that had power over us.

That is what the American Revolution was about, right?

Our country is based on a rule of law for a reason.

You know, so I have faith in my attorney general.

He's doing a great job.

I think individual federal judges

know what the law is.

They're going to stand up for the Constitution.

I do get nervous.

You know, there's a lot of nervous all day long.

But when we go up to the Supreme Court, if that's where this is headed, that is concerning.

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Are you both concerned about the president's willingness to openly discuss the Insurrection Act?

Because one of the things that we have been blessed by here in the state of California are a number of lower court decisions, including Justice Breyer, on the question of posse comitatas.

And the issue of posse comitatas, for those that don't know, is not a complicated one.

It's fundamentally about not allowing the federal military to be used for domestic policing, period full stop, unless the president invokes the Insurrection Act.

So there's a scenario, is there not, where Even if the courts adjudicate in favor of what we believe are these fundamental constitutional principles, the president himself can simply invoke the Insurrection Act.

Is that a possible outcome here from your perspective, either of you?

I think it's possible.

I will say that, again, rule of law, you know, there's a reason it's called the Insurrection Act.

It's about an insurrection, a foreign invasion, right, where you've got to defend against

collapse.

And that's not occurring in Portland.

It's not occurring in Chicago.

It wasn't occurring in L.A.

and certainly not Washington, D.C.

And I am, I mean, I think that could happen.

But here's the scarier part.

He doesn't need to invoke the Insurrection Act.

He's already militarized the Customs and Border Patrol and ICE.

And as you just repeated, you know, $100 billion to hire new ICE agents.

And I want to add one thing.

This is very strange to me.

You know,

the Customs and Border Patrol is not supposed to be utilized, in fact, by law, not allowed to be utilized anywhere other than within 100 miles of the border.

I'm here in Chicago.

Solid.

Did they move Illinois, JB?

I missed that.

I mean, there might be people who'd like to move Illinois right now,

but, you know, Canada is very far away from Chicago.

They're claiming that Lake Michigan is the border.

And so Oak Street Beach in Chicago is the border, apparently.

So

this is another issue where they're using civilian law enforcement, right?

And even taking people out of FBI and DEA and ATF and moving them over to ICE for ICE duties and CBP.

It was CBP that was marching around in uniforms with automatic weapons in downtown Chicago.

That was CBP, Customers and Border Patrol, not ICE.

So I'm just saying, you don't need the military to do what he wants to do, militarize the cities.

So that's, I think, even more frightening.

I mean, we could maybe hold him back on the Insurrection Act, but he doesn't need it.

We talk about the courts.

What about the Court of Public Opinion?

Where are the people?

I mean, are you distilled?

We've been just overwhelmed by the

overwhelming opposition to what's going on in our streets and sidewalks.

People are angry.

They're outraged.

It's not about red versus blue.

It's about red, white, and blue.

People are seeing this country that we fought for 249 years, about to enjoy the 250th anniversary of the best of Roman Republic and Greek democracy.

And we're seeing

this remarkable moment of vandalism.

Where are the people of Oregon?

Where are the people of Illinois?

The vast majority of Oregonians are mad.

They don't agree with this.

And you know the group that is most impactful when I hear the stories, it's our veterans, folks who served in the National Guard, people who have been veterans of the active military.

They know that this is wrong, and they are appalled by it.

And so I think they speak forcefully for people across my state that this shouldn't be happening.

Well, we have peaceful protesters, of course, around the ICE facility in Broadview, Illinois.

That's just outside Chicago.

It's not in the city.

About two blocks of protesters, you know, lining the sidewalks.

It's not an enormous number, but

more than 100 people

each day.

And they're upset.

I think what I take as an indicator of something

important that's happening, though, is there are a lot of protests that are occurring that are not necessarily just at the ICE facility, but that are about what's happening to the country.

And yes, of course, there's going to be the No Kings rally on October 18th, which I think will be another indicator.

But you know what's happening in the neighborhoods when ICE is coming in with their unmarked vehicles and wearing masks and attacking people's homes

is their neighbors are coming out and yelling.

at the ICE and people are angry just like Tina said.

People see it and they're like, what is happening?

What kind of a country do we live in?

And I mean, U.S.

citizens, people who are documented, and yeah, people who are undocumented, but by the way, have never broken a law in the United States.

They've never done anything wrong.

They're paying taxes, going to work.

I mean, we should deal with comprehensive immigration reform.

We all agree.

But I'm just saying, like, you know, they said they were coming after the worst of the worst.

That's not what they're doing.

And they come into our neighborhoods.

Here's what gives me hope.

You see people coming out of their homes onto the sidewalks yelling and pulling out their phones to video film everything.

I've asked them to do that because it becomes evidence.

It also becomes, I think,

inspiring for people across the country to say, this is wrong.

We've got to do something about this.

And then I think we've all got to remind people that in the end, how we're going to solve for this is people have to show up and vote against it in 2026, in November.

That's right.

And I want to applaud the work both of you have done on Know Your Rights campaign, on providing legal support for those families that have illegally been torn apart

because of some of these activities.

And I also appreciate the clarity to which you both have communicated that none of us are countenancing violent criminals and we're not shielding violent criminal actors in any way, shape, or form.

That's not what this is about.

But JB, we opened with you.

Can we close with you?

Just you

said that,

I don't know how you're multitasking here, but

you broke some news with us on the TRO.

We're all pricing our multitasking.

What was anything further you want to illuminate in terms of the chip they implanted in my brain

that's giving me the info?

The judge seems to have enjoined the federalization.

So we expect to see that in the oral decision that's

going to be delivered tomorrow morning.

So I think we'll know the kind of the final full ruling by then, but I feel reasonably confident based upon what she was saying.

My team is handing me a note even as we speak.

Yeah, just to remind, I think all of us that

this is, first of all, it's a big victory for us to hold back the federalization of our International Guard.

These people don't, by the way, they don't want to be called up.

I mean, just like in California, they don't want to be called up standing against their own citizens who they've been protecting, who they rescue on a regular basis when there's a real disaster.

They don't want to do that.

And I don't think the Illinois National Guard wants to, and I don't think the Texas National Guard or the California want to come to Illinois to do that.

They may not be from here, but they know that what they're doing isn't what they signed up to do.

So I'm very pleased with so far with what we know about the judge's ruling.

And I feel reasonably confident when we get to read it finally tomorrow morning, we're going to see a full TRO and no troops on the ground in Chicago.

But we'll have to see.

I appreciate that update.

And also just,

not dissimmer how we opened as well.

You know, these, for us, the National Guard, these are the folks that are out there during the fire, in the middle of the fire, and during our recovery.

And they were heroes.

I mean, the biggest problem we had, we had thousands of National Guard that were there protecting the residents of Los Angeles.

And the biggest problem they had were the number of people coming up to get selfies with them, giving them food and water, and they were overwhelmed.

And these are our neighbors.

These are nurses and doctors.

These are firefighters and law enforcement officers that are quite literally being taken now off the street and been asked to mask up.

And I think it's so important that we underscore what you just said, JB, that

we're not at war with them, quite the contrary.

And that's what's so abusive about what the President of the United States has done.

But I want to just say this in closing.

I want to thank you both for what you've done, the moral clarity to which you both have met this moment, how effectively you've communicated, how effectively you've galvanized the public to understand what's at stake.

Thank you for

the partnership in terms of

the compare and contrast and the sharing of information with our legal teams and with our staff.

It distills for me a sense of well-being.

You know, there's an old adage, if you want to go fast, go alone, you want to go far, go together.

And this is a time for us to partner and it's a time for us to, I think, really raise the red flag of alarm about what's really going on in this country and what we're up against.

Well, thank you, Gavin, and thank you, Tina.

Both of you I've spoken with as we're going through what we're going through in Chicago.

And I think we've each advised each other about ideas that we have.

And you talk about speaking with moral clarity, Gavin.

I can't thank you enough for you having done that since early before the

invasion of LA

by those troops.

And you keep it up.

And Tina,

I know all of this has been jarring for the people of Oregon, but you have been such a beacon for them.

And I've watched you as things are happening here in Chicago and thought, you know, well, I got to take that idea.

That's a great idea, the way you've expressed yourself.

So thank you for all of your advice along the way.

Thanks, JB.

Thank you, Gavin.

You know, we stick together.

We'll get through this.

But it's been an honor working with you.

We're going to keep hanging out together because we've got to keep fighting.

This is...

This is going to be a brawl.

So

let's keep together and appreciate you both.

Well, appreciate it.

It's a rare opportunity for us to get together in this public manner.

I think it's really important.

Again, grateful for both of you taking the time, particularly with the preciousness that is time at this moment.

Thank you guys.

Thanks.

This is an iHeart podcast.