#597 - Lewis Capaldi

Speaker 1 Sebastian Maniscalco's new stand-up special, It Ain't Right, is now streaming on Hulu. Filmed live at the sold-out United Center Arena in Chicago.

Speaker 1 Sebastian's newest special features his larger-than-life presence and hilarious everyday observations to keep you laughing.

Speaker 1 Sebastian goes all in on family chaos, non-existent manners, and life's most relatable and funny moments.

Speaker 1 Watch Sebastian Maniscalco, It Ain't Right now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

Speaker 2 Terms apply.

Speaker 1 I've got some new tour dates that I'm telling you about here.

Speaker 1 I'll be in Winnipeg, Canada, Los Angeles, California, Anaheim, Oceanside, and Calgary, Canada. That is the end of that tour.
I got to take some time off

Speaker 1 to take care of myself. And so I'm looking forward to that.
You can get tickets at theovon.com/slash T-O-U-R.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys so much for the support. And I look forward forward to seeing you guys soon.

Speaker 1 Today's guest is a singer-songwriter out of Scotland. He just made a triumphant return to Glastonbury after taking some time off to focus on himself.

Speaker 1 He has a new song called Survive, which is out now streaming everywhere. I'm grateful for today's guest.
He's a Klas Lad,

Speaker 1 Mr. Louis Capaldi.

Speaker 2 I feel like I'm in the thing.

Speaker 2 I feel like I've stepped through the screen. Do you know what I mean? Here we are.
Oh, here we are.

Speaker 1 Looking locked in.

Speaker 2 Class.

Speaker 2 Class lads.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's hard to understand. I feel like it's hard to understand the Scottish sometimes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say it's the hardest because we've not got the international identity that Irish people have.
Right. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So everyone kind of knows the Irish accent, but I feel like Scotland is like Ireland's sort of like ugly little sister. Oh, no one really like it.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 People, we don't have that sort of like

Speaker 2 international thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Ireland has that thing. Like the, you know, they have like the leprechaun or whatever.
Do you guys have a version of the leprechaun?

Speaker 2 I guess like William Wallace is like the only.

Speaker 1 Oh, he's a powerful leprechaun then.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Yeah, big man. Yeah.
Big man thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I wonder who the Irish version of the leprechaun, just like a regular guy that needs help, probably.

Speaker 1 It's just like a guy that just like it can't get his grandmother on the phone or something,

Speaker 2 maybe.

Speaker 1 Oh, dude, good to see you today, man.

Speaker 2 Good to see you too, man. Thank you

Speaker 2 for having us.

Speaker 1 Thank you for all the beautiful music, man. Thank you.

Speaker 2 No, I'm, yeah, that's what I'm doing. I appreciate it.
Thanks for all the laughs.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're even.

Speaker 1 It's cool how something can cross to a total different culture.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's kind of fascinating, you know, that I could go to Scotland and have people come see a show and that you could come here and have people see it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man, it's wild, especially because I don't think you ever, well, I don't know about you, but like, I never get into this thinking about, like, I never assumed that I would be in America doing things like this or like people would come see shows or anything like that.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, it's mad. It's just like, it always feels like a bit of a blessing.
Yeah. Coming over here and doing this.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 In a dream. Sometimes it feels like, I think,

Speaker 2 or i don't does it ever feel to you like you're living in a dream kind of in a weird way yeah for sure i think um especially like i took two years off there and like i was sort of living this sort of mundane day-to-day oh yeah life but uh it was just uh so it's weird now being but being back in it all sort of the last few weeks has been um a bit of a mad yeah like i yeah it feels out of body and a bit strange but i'm loving it yeah it's great it's the best and you did uh do you do good morning america i did just this morning oh

Speaker 2 I've been up since four. Oh,

Speaker 2 that's early. It is early, but it kind of jet lagged, so I kind of played into my hand.

Speaker 1 It evens out, maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was good.
They should call it goodbye, America.

Speaker 2 I feel like we're fucking. What's going on? Oh, yeah.
Oh, we're about to get on a boat and come back.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 Where's the port?

Speaker 2 Oh, there I am. Oh, that was you today.
That's literally me earlier on wearing, yeah, wearing a nice green jacket.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's beautiful. And who's the ginger there on the

Speaker 2 that's my that's my piano player Aiden?

Speaker 1 Oh, sorry, Aiden.

Speaker 2 Aiden. He is ginger.
He's very ginger.

Speaker 1 Okay, good. We've classified him then, yeah.

Speaker 2 No, but he's a good man.

Speaker 1 It's like the scarlet letter of haircuts, I feel like being a ginger, you know?

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 2 He's maybe the most red-headed guy I've ever met.

Speaker 1 Wow. And is he a Scotsman?

Speaker 2 He is a Scotsman. They're all Scots.
Well,

Speaker 2 my drummer is a very posh English man named Freddy. Oh.
Yeah. I know, I know.
But it's quite, it was a weird thing. We looked for a drummer for a long time.
And he was like,

Speaker 2 we kind of went through a lot. It was like speed date.
We went through a lot lot of different drummers, and it was like this really posh English guy that fit in with these sort of normal

Speaker 2 Scottish men. So it's been lovely.
Oh, there he is.

Speaker 1 That's Freddy. Oh, there he is.

Speaker 2 This is well good, how quick you guys are.

Speaker 1 And he's doing well. Look at him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's doing very well. Just had a little child, a little baby.
Oh, God. Well, about a year ago now.
So she's,

Speaker 2 yeah, she's nice. I mean, she's fine.
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 As babies go. I don't know her.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 As babies go. Yeah, yeah.
She doesn't say much. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She emails late at night, though.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. She gets on that laptop and really occasionally rattle off.
She'll fire off a few emails. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Strongly well.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude, I've been to Scotland before we did Glasgow and did a show over there. Yes.

Speaker 2 How did you find it?

Speaker 1 Oh, it was quite,

Speaker 1 it reminded me a bit of like

Speaker 1 a lot of people,

Speaker 1 like day labor, like kind of like contractor type of people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, proper, like working class.

Speaker 1 Working class.

Speaker 2 Yeah, blue collar. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Down and dirty.

Speaker 1 Or like a dark blue.

Speaker 2 Navy. Navy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 I mean, guys, some of them they would, you know, one of them would talk and one of them would whistle, just like unique.

Speaker 1 You know, like one guy you had to tickle them to get the truth out of him. You know, just a lot of like special, just unique folks.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. It's a great place.
I love Glasgow. I don't like, I kind of split my time now between Glasgow and London, but yeah, I always miss it when I go.
Yeah. It's just a different sort of

Speaker 2 type person that you get maybe than

Speaker 2 the Londons.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, dude. They're a bit more refined there.
They're a bit more like

Speaker 1 kind of like you see like those nutcrackers at Christmas and they're all like polished and like,

Speaker 1 you know, they have like a nice hat and like a little thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're a Cat Williams.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 1 They're a bit more Cat Williams over there in London.

Speaker 1 And then you get to Scotland and it's just some guy fucking licking a pitchfork, you know,

Speaker 1 and just hoping for the best. I love that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I love that shit, man. It's fucking, it's pretty special.
But yeah, it's a great place. Glasgow being there.
But you're in Nashville now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I live in Nashville now. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I love Nashville. We're going there on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 This Wednesday. I think so, yeah.

Speaker 2 Christ. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll be going. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 Well, we're here. We're here now.
We're here now enjoying this in the Chelsea hotel.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Chelsea Hotel. A famous place.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so many interesting people. We interviewed, actually, in this room, Craig from Craigslist, the guy that started Craigslist.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And how's he? Oh, he is.

Speaker 1 He's got a, he just a lot going on. A lot.
I mean, think of all the things that are passing through. You got a used car.
You have somebody, you know, selling homemade Narcan.

Speaker 2 You got a lot of shit passing through you.

Speaker 1 You know, you got a lot of shit in your inbox.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, of course. Has he still, has he sold it or does he still own it?

Speaker 1 He has a partial ownership. I believe this is correct.
He has a partial ownership, but he's not active with it anymore. Sure.

Speaker 2 Right. Okay.

Speaker 1 And now he's just like a philanthropist, but he was a very unique man. Craig Newmark was his name.

Speaker 2 Craig Newmark, yeah. Shout out Craig Newmark.

Speaker 1 Yeah, shout out Craig. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, we wouldn't say Craig, we'd say Craig.

Speaker 1 Oh, Craig.

Speaker 2 Craig Craigslist, it'd be called.

Speaker 1 Oh, Craigslist. Oh, that sounds even more

Speaker 2 brisque. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's connect.

Speaker 1 Sounds like, yeah, you might meet a dentist in the dark on there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Craig, Craig.
Craig.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And what does Craig mean? Does it mean something?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just

Speaker 2 a name,

Speaker 2 I think. I don't know if it's like, I don't know if it's

Speaker 2 if it has any true meaning or anything like that maybe warrior craig oh Paul Craig there you are yeah he once called me a loser on his podcast

Speaker 2 really he said he said I he said I actually quite like Paul Craig but he said I should

Speaker 2 lose weight and that I was a loser

Speaker 2 well

Speaker 1 dude if he lost weight he'd be a loser then technically yeah exactly yeah the biggest loser yeah don't give him the title before you

Speaker 2 but I saw the clip but um uh Paul uh

Speaker 2 congratulations on everything Sorry about what happened at the last

Speaker 1 UC. Sorry, Lewis didn't enough for you, but Paul.
Yeah, sorry, bro.

Speaker 2 Sorry, man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Paul Craig.

Speaker 2 No, but that would be Craig. Yeah, Craig.
Yeah. Anyway.
Paul Craig. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude, the Scots, man. They're fascinating.
They're just fascinating. You'd almost...

Speaker 1 Like, I wouldn't be surprised if you was in the US, you know, or and you're in a zoo and they had a couple in there somewhere.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, they're taking care of and everything.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, drinking, sort of like...

Speaker 1 They're health being there, yelling at you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, screaming at the fences and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It sounds like us.

Speaker 1 We're singing like a good um, do they have like a lot of good, like, Scottish songs and stuff?

Speaker 2 Oh, flirt of Scotland, when will we see

Speaker 2 your like again

Speaker 2 that fought and died for

Speaker 2 your we battling claim that stood against them, against them, proud Edward's army

Speaker 2 and sent him homeward

Speaker 2 to think again. Come on, Oscar.
Yeah, yeah, that's us.

Speaker 2 That's a good one that we've got. We've also got,

Speaker 2 what's your name? Alibali, Alibali B, sitting on your mommy's knee.

Speaker 2 It's a good one. I don't know where it goes after that.

Speaker 1 Well, that one ends in the courts, I think. It sounds like.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 It sounds like a domestic dispute, huh?

Speaker 1 But yeah, I just, I think, yeah, the most fascinating kind of like Scotland, it's like the DIY England. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's like you fucking figure it out.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, we'll be fine up there. But although we did

Speaker 2 not to get into independence, we did vote, vote, vote to not leave England. People think Scottish people hate English people, but it's not true.

Speaker 2 I love English people. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I love them so much. Yeah, I don't.
I love them.

Speaker 2 I don't have anything against English people. Yeah.
In fact,

Speaker 2 I love them.

Speaker 1 If I saw them, I would definitely pat them on the back.

Speaker 2 Yeah, come and pat the back and like a little, like one of those little love taps

Speaker 2 on the back side. On the yeah.
Send them on the way.

Speaker 1 On the low back, they call it.

Speaker 2 Just the low back, yeah, consensually. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Of course. Yeah, it seems like there's a lot more.
You have to be very consensual over there. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think everywhere it's good to be consensual.

Speaker 1 Good call. Sorry.

Speaker 1 And that's not going to age well.

Speaker 1 But in Scotland, it's just a bit more like, whose tit is this, you know, kind of. And it's on your mate half the time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And a man's tits.
It's always a man's tit.

Speaker 1 We're talking about men, ladies.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're talking about men's tits.

Speaker 1 Relax. It's not always about your tits.

Speaker 1 You don't think some of us are wearing brassiers now? They have the Shea Gilgas Alexander just had a Brazier on the other day, one of the most famous basketball players in the United States.

Speaker 2 Is that a thing that I can pull up a gander at this?

Speaker 1 He was wearing

Speaker 1 a men's brassier. Oh,

Speaker 2 lovely stuff. Is that like, what is the.

Speaker 1 But yeah, beautiful. I mean, it's coming, I guess.

Speaker 2 Things are.

Speaker 2 What is the use in that? Because he doesn't look like he's packing heat.

Speaker 1 I mean, I bet I haven't seen. This is as much of him as I've seen.
I'm going to just, you know, based on charts I've seen online, I bet he's doing okay. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 I think, uh,

Speaker 1 yeah, I don't know. I think maybe times are changing.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it looks, I mean, hey, fair play to him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, fair play. Fair play.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm always saying.

Speaker 1 Fair play to these Brazilian men. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what they say.

Speaker 1 Are you feeling okay? Yeah, I feel great.

Speaker 2 Doing good? Yeah, I feel relaxed and chilled. Good, man.
What is

Speaker 2 Celsius?

Speaker 1 So, Celsius is our sponsor, and this is,

Speaker 1 I mean, this will definitely,

Speaker 1 it just gets you kind of going, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm going to have a sip.

Speaker 1 Yeah, get in there.

Speaker 2 I've never tried it before. You haven't?

Speaker 2 Well, that's lovely.

Speaker 2 That is actually really nice. Hello, Celsius.
I love a bit with you.

Speaker 2 Cheers. Cheers, lad.
Cheers. Sir? A word from our sponsors.
Hey. There you are.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this dude, you have a couple of these. You'll see a couple UFOs.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
I always thought it was alcoholic. Can you get alcoholic Celsius or no?

Speaker 1 It's a great question. Do they have that?

Speaker 2 They should really

Speaker 2 wade into that market. I think so.

Speaker 2 That'd be a good shift.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I bet at some point they will. I mean, you're going to get an email immediately for alcoholics.

Speaker 1 You're going to get a collab.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, great. I mean, that's what I'm angling for.

Speaker 2 I'm here collecting sponsors.

Speaker 1 Dude, in Scotland, you guys see some of the most UFOs. Do you know that? I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 No, no, no.

Speaker 2 I'm not as

Speaker 2 up to speed with my alien stuff as I should be. But is that the case? More.

Speaker 1 Yes, I think Scotland is one of the most... I think Scotland has some of the most UFO sightings anywhere.

Speaker 2 Really? I think there's also like... I think that's also got something to do with people like, I don't know, taking more drugs in Scotland.

Speaker 1 Oh, definitely. And then some people just need to ride home.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Just

Speaker 1 hoping anything will come get them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 What's that? There was a video of a guy, one of the first sightings over there.

Speaker 2 What was his name?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is a guy already.

Speaker 1 It's Bobby Taylor.

Speaker 3 With a big round dome,

Speaker 3 a very dark grey colour, and had a big flange going all the way around.

Speaker 3 I could see arms sticking out of this flange with what I took to be blades on the top. As I stood here, there was two balls came out, two balls.

Speaker 2 I'd think they'd be about three feet in diameter with about six.

Speaker 1 It could have just been a

Speaker 1 big gay guy running towards him.

Speaker 2 You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 It could have just been a big gay guy in a helmet running towards him.

Speaker 2 He also sounds like he might have a few on board, though. Do you know what I mean? It's not like

Speaker 2 Bobby Taylor there sounds like he could be under the influence slightly. So I'm not sure that that's like...

Speaker 1 No, I'm glad you're here because this is Livingston.

Speaker 2 That's so close to where I grew up. Really? Yeah, so close to where I grew up.
I grew up like 10 minutes from there. Oh, wow.
That's very close.

Speaker 2 Place called East Wetburn, in between Glasgow and Edinburgh. But that's so close to where I live.

Speaker 1 And have you heard of this man?

Speaker 2 I've never heard of Robert Taylor. He

Speaker 2 hasn't really made it into the.

Speaker 1 He was attacked by a UFO in the deck, in the deck, Decks.

Speaker 2 Deckman Woods. You've heard of him? I haven't heard of.
I've heard of the Woods. I haven't heard of

Speaker 2 Robert, but then that's what they do.

Speaker 2 They try and suppress this stuff, don't they?

Speaker 1 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this guy should not be.

Speaker 2 West Lothian, that's literally where I grew up. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 In UF, the Taylor incident, a.k.a. Livingston incident, or Dechmont Woods encounter, is the name given to claims of sighting an extraterrestrial spacecraft in Livingston, West Lothian.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's where Whitman is.
I never thought I'd hear Diovon say West Lothian. Oh, yeah, boys.
You're doing it. Oh, there it is.

Speaker 2 WL, Whitburn Lupe. That's another thing.
Yeah, well, the Whitburn Luppe is like

Speaker 2 a young team. There's a thing in Scotland called, there's things all over Scotland called young teams, and it's like groups of youths

Speaker 2 and they sort of get together and cause mischief and like, you know, I don't know, like fight and stuff. You've got a bit of gangs.
Yeah, yeah. So I wouldn't even class it as gangs.

Speaker 2 It's not as like, it's not as violent. Violent.
There's fights, but like everyone, you kind of go around in your bikes and like punch, punch, fuck at each other. I was never in one, obviously.

Speaker 2 But like punch fuck at each other. We had like

Speaker 2 West Whitburn Lupe.

Speaker 2 That's the only one I know. Yeah.
It was a song like Whitburn, Lupe, nuts are we, him and her and you and me. We'll show you what we can do with a baseball bat and a snooker cue.

Speaker 2 Slash the faces, jump the back, use the cue as a baseball bat. Whitburn, Lupe, nuts are we.
We are the Whitburn. Lupe.

Speaker 2 Let's go, dude.

Speaker 1 I'll join right now. Get somebody that freaking Glasgow smile, right?

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 According to Taylor, a forestry worker for the Livingston Development Corporation on November 9th, 1979, he parked his pickup truck at the side of a road near the motorway and walked along a forest path.

Speaker 1 He claims he experienced a foul odor like burning brakes.

Speaker 2 I mean, it sounds pretty...

Speaker 2 Similar, the spheres like similar to sea mines had seized him and were dragging him in the direction of a larger object when he lost consciousness.

Speaker 2 But they always lose consciousness right before they see them. It is true.
Do you know what I mean? So what is happening?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it sounds like he blacked out. I mean, anything.
Yeah, I mean, he definitely, you said out of the gate, it looked like he maybe had one or two.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, one or two on board. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And also, the thing about a lot of UFOs, dude, you never, we never even, we never even find a gas cap on the ground or anything. Like these motherfuckers are flying everywhere.

Speaker 1 We never find a rearview mirror.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Oh, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 You're telling me they're they're that well assembled, that not one of them ever. That's a default.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 A spay attire or something, even just one of those jacks they use to fix the side of it.

Speaker 2 I'm not like a huge believer in

Speaker 2 UFOs or aliens, but

Speaker 2 I'm curious. Yeah.
I'm curious. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm always interested.

Speaker 1 You're alien curious.

Speaker 2 I'm alien curious. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Me too.

Speaker 1 I would just be. Oh, I hope if they get me, they're women that get me.
But yeah, the Falkirk.

Speaker 2 What was that? The Falkirk Triangle? Falkirk Triangle. Falkirk's also not far from where I live.
This is all, they all seem to be happening in my sort of my little concentrated area of London.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Scotland, so that's bad.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Falkirk Triangle. It sounds like three kind of thicker ladies splitting a bit of haggis, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Falkirk Triangle is a region in central Scotland renowned as one of the world's most active UFO hotspots. You didn't know that?

Speaker 2 I didn't know that. No, it's not.

Speaker 2 People haven't like

Speaker 2 cheap. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's not become a real

Speaker 1 it's not as famous as but how many do you need before people tap each other on the shoulder and you see yes things things are going on here.

Speaker 2 This isn't like this isn't uh normal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think as well you'd you'd be able to catch them like you'd be able to if 300 are happening a year in the area you'd be able to wait out and be like, okay, they're coming at some point.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you think just some guys in Scotland.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's mad though.
I never knew that. What is it?

Speaker 1 I wonder if what leads to those UFOs. I wonder what if there's something in Scotland that leads to it.
Is it the diet? Is it the...

Speaker 2 There was a thing called the Glasgow effect a couple of years ago. Well, still, I think it was like the life expectancy in Glasgow at one stage was like 55 years old or whatever.
Wow.

Speaker 2 And I remember this girl

Speaker 2 did

Speaker 2 this thing where she was looking. It was like an art project where she was looking for funding so she could live like a...

Speaker 2 a Glaswegian for a year and see how

Speaker 2 it affected her health.

Speaker 1 So she could love a Glaswegian?

Speaker 2 No, live like a Glaswegian. Like

Speaker 2 the diet, the sort of surroundings.

Speaker 2 People were really up in arms about it because it was very like sort of poverty safari sort of.

Speaker 1 Right, like almost like a super seismic, but for Scotland, kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It was very like it was thingy, but yeah, excess more.

Speaker 2 The Glasgow Fett refers to the observation: residents of Glasgow experience lower life expectancy and poorer health outcomes than people living in similarly deprived cities in the United Kingdom and Europe.

Speaker 2 There you go. But I think it's better now.
I think it is much better now.

Speaker 1 I think the people are just so great, God wants them back quicker.

Speaker 2 That's great.

Speaker 2 That's a good way of looking at it.

Speaker 1 That's what I feel like.

Speaker 1 The rest of you guys can mill around on earth.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just keep it going down there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Dude, the last 30 years are downhill anyway.
We'll fucking show up in heaven in style. I like that.
Yeah, yeah. That's classic.

Speaker 2 How old are you? I'm 45, man. Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to die soon, dude.

Speaker 2 Let me get a look at this.

Speaker 2 I thought you're a very, very sprightly 45.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't feel, I swear to God, I don't, I don't, if this is what 45 feels like, I can't even believe believe it. Cause I don't feel 45.

Speaker 1 I don't even, I don't think I think like I'm 45. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So I think something's wrong with me.

Speaker 1 And I'm not even joking. I really do.
I thought I would just have more like adult feelings or be a young grandfather at this point, but none of that's happening.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, of course. I definitely get the older I get, the more I'm like.

Speaker 2 Aging kind of scales me slightly.

Speaker 2 Not even not even aging, getting older, but like the loss of like

Speaker 2 youth. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Even though like things have gone, i've i've like done been really lucky and like had like a really like

Speaker 2 dreams have come true and stuff i still like find myself paining and longing for like when i was younger and even like i don't know why it's like a a big thing for me it's this same like i'm running out of time sort of thing but i think that everyone gets that

Speaker 1 i don't know i don't know if some people get it so severely because i think about that all the time like youth like i'm like almost obsessed with what it was like to be young you know and almost i think a a lot of times i don't want to grow up yeah yeah of course yeah at any i don't ever want to do it yeah you know

Speaker 1 like uh

Speaker 1 but yeah i think i guess i think one thing about youth is that everything was like so adventurous maybe or

Speaker 1 I don't know. Why do you think that is? What do you, do you think there's like

Speaker 1 any themes about youth that make you feel that way?

Speaker 2 I guess there's people, like there's people around you that are, that aren't here anymore. I guess it's a point in your life where everyone is is

Speaker 2 like everyone's there. I mean, I guess

Speaker 2 my grandmother died when I was three, so I was very quick. I think that may be a big thing with my worry of like

Speaker 2 my

Speaker 2 obsession with like you know, youth and aging and all that. Attachment and all that.
Yeah, because like I learned from like a young age that people

Speaker 2 it's finite and people die and stuff. And I think,

Speaker 2 yeah, I think maybe that might be something that I attached to it or like that there's there's less, there's less.

Speaker 1 Was she a cool lady, a grand?

Speaker 2 Yes, she was cool.

Speaker 2 What's her name?

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 My mom's going to kill me. No, she won't.

Speaker 1 Your grandmother's dead.

Speaker 1 They need you.

Speaker 2 Fuck, what was my grand's name?

Speaker 2 I just called her Nana.

Speaker 1 That's fair.

Speaker 2 And if she,

Speaker 2 first of all, can I text my mom and ask her what her name was? Please.

Speaker 1 Any grandmother going by her natural born name, first of all, is a tramp, I think.

Speaker 1 Every grandmother should be Nana from now on.

Speaker 2 I want to text my brother because I feel like my mom would be like, what the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 2 What was

Speaker 2 mom's mom's name?

Speaker 1 Two more sips of Celsius. You'll remember it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 I bet if you have a sip of Celsius right now, you might remember it.

Speaker 2 I can't fucking remember her name. That's mental.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you've been through a lot, dude. We've seen

Speaker 2 what's going on.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
That's fucking mental.

Speaker 1 Is it, though? I'll keep it.

Speaker 2 I'll keep it.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you this. I don't know my father's mother's name.

Speaker 2 Oh, but there you go. But

Speaker 2 your father was much older. Yeah, he's an older man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, my grandmother was born in 1884.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 But I should still probably know it at first name.

Speaker 2 But I guess you never met her.

Speaker 1 No, I never met her. But she's born in 1884.

Speaker 2 That says.

Speaker 1 No, I've seen some drawings. We had drawings of her and stuff at our house, but I, yeah, I never met her.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But we had four pretty good drawings. One, actually.

Speaker 1 One my uncle did, and it was fucking shite, dude.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was shite, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it was horrible with markers, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a no-photos, just drawings, yeah, from and from memory, maybe somebody, yeah. So, who knows? Yeah, it could have been anyone, really, it could have been an old lady, yeah.

Speaker 2 Um, so so you don't, uh, well, yeah, it could have been just some friend of Paddington Bears, I have no clue who it was, it could have been anyone, of the queen, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, it could have been the queen, I have no idea, exactly. I was like, damn, grandma had a scepter,

Speaker 1 That's pretty crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm back in with crypto. I'm back in.
I'll be honest. I'm back in.
I got the

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What's going to happen?

Speaker 1 Does it go to the moon? Well,

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And when I need more Bitcoin or Solana or...

Speaker 2 XRP,

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Speaker 2 So we'll get back to that,

Speaker 2 my mother's mother's name.

Speaker 1 And look, it'll be something that we'll chime. We'll check towards the end.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But Nan is it. And Nan is it.
That's what everybody says. Nana, Nana.
Nana. Nana.
It's like

Speaker 2 a Scottish thing or like, no, I think some Americans say Nana.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm trying to think what we say here. A lot of people say like Grammy, Mimi.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Mima.

Speaker 1 Mimaw, too.

Speaker 2 Mima, yeah, yeah. What would you, what would you

Speaker 1 grandmother, evil grandmother, I would say also, at times,

Speaker 1 or a distant grandmother,

Speaker 2 cold grandmother.

Speaker 1 Older lady with the key

Speaker 1 is also a term that I would throw around sometimes.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 1 my grandma, yeah, she was, my grandmother was good at like, she would make us nice treats. Yeah.
And that was one thing I do that thought that she was good at.

Speaker 2 Fond memories, treats.

Speaker 1 She liked to feed you, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, listen, I've got a lot of people like that in my life. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm a big...

Speaker 2 I'm a big proponent of being fed.

Speaker 2 I like to be fed. Yeah, look.
Yeah. Sounds weirder than I wanted it to sound, but I just meant I like

Speaker 2 eating.

Speaker 1 Well, of course, you should eat while you're here. I mean, according to the Scottish mortality rate, you're

Speaker 2 there's only so much time left. Exactly,

Speaker 2 I think it on.

Speaker 1 No wonder you feel so much about your youth, you know. No wonder you do.

Speaker 2 I think my brother's texting back. All right, let me see.

Speaker 2 Awesome.

Speaker 2 What

Speaker 2 mum's mum's name was Melissa? It wasn't Melissa.

Speaker 2 No, old, no grandmother's ever been called Melissa.

Speaker 1 Not that I know of, no, unless it's it's like kind of like a

Speaker 1 Melissa.

Speaker 2 Maggie?

Speaker 2 I guess we'll get to the bottom of this by the end of the podcast. I'm 100%.

Speaker 1 This is our UFO.

Speaker 2 This is meant. I'll just keep it.
Sorry.

Speaker 1 No, I think it's great, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 Who's on your Scottish Mount Rushmore? If you had to kind of piece one together, Billy Conley would be up there, for sure. Okay, Billy Connolly.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Billy Conley.

Speaker 2 Maybe I like... There's a Scottish singer I love called Paolo Natini.
What is his name? Paolo Natini. He's Scottish Italian, much like myself.

Speaker 2 Or not quite like myself because he looks Italian and I look like this. Yeah, see, he's got that sort of like

Speaker 2 Italian-y.

Speaker 1 Wow, I didn't know that. So that's a

Speaker 1 Scotsman?

Speaker 2 That's a Scotsman, yeah. Oh.

Speaker 2 And yeah, but he's up there for me as a, as a musician. I'm such a, I grew up listening to him.

Speaker 1 And have you guys ever gotten to tour or collaborate together?

Speaker 2 I've had a few beers with him. I've been to see him and had a few beers with him.
That was like a really nice sort of field soccer work. He's very elusive, Palatinate.

Speaker 2 He'll disappear for years and then come back and sing and dig it. But he's an incredible, incredible talent.
But he'd be up there for me.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to think of actors.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 1 I guess Sean Connery, maybe.

Speaker 2 Sean Connery would be up there.

Speaker 1 I mean, he's a very historical figure.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Sean Connery probably would be up there, yeah.

Speaker 1 Actor-wise. What about Shane McGowan? Was he Scottish?

Speaker 2 Shane McGowan's Irish.

Speaker 1 He is? I believe, yeah. He might have been high enough.
He thought he was Scottish.

Speaker 2 Although he's, I think he was born in England, Shane McGowan.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 But I think Sean Connery is he was very much the epitome of class, I think, for example.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there he is.

Speaker 1 Robert Louis Stevenson, that uh, he's

Speaker 2 or like Alexander Graham Bell. Is he Scottish? Yeah, I think he's Scottish.
Scottish people invented the telephone and television. John Logie Beard, is that the guy who invented the television?

Speaker 1 Well, Robert Louis Stevens, they invented the telephone. Who invented the telephone, really?

Speaker 2 oh my gosh dude thank you don't worry honestly thank you more than welcome that that's quite a recent looks like quite a recent petsy what's going on there it must be ai or something nah they said what do you mean you think that's ai i don't know

Speaker 1 it's just been coloured it's just been um dude he you guys invented the damn telephone who did he call first i don't know there's no one else on the on the other end of the line i guess that's the problem that's a great point oh christ that must have been the worst part imagine the day they're like debuting it and nobody else even has one.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Rubbish.
It must be the guy who got the first iPhone. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Oh, he's like, oh, my wife didn't pick up. I'm going to stay for another party.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's mad.

Speaker 1 Alexander Graham Bell's first telephone call was to his assistant, Thomas A. Watson.

Speaker 1 Bell uttered the famous words, Mr. Watson, come here.
I want to see you. Question, quick.

Speaker 2 Sexual almost.

Speaker 2 Definitely.

Speaker 1 Well, look, this go, a lot of men invented things. I think a lot of men who allegedly had maybe some zesty tendencies invented things because they had they needed to meet other men.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they didn't want to say out in public, hey, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 You needed to, you wanted to be like discreet, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 So pick up this little whisper mobile, that little

Speaker 2 come hither, the come hither machine,

Speaker 2 yeah, the come hither machine.

Speaker 1 Wow, that's wild, dude. That's lovely.
That's amazing, dude. I didn't know that.
It's uh, and that was March 10th, 1876. He did it once.

Speaker 2 That's not long before your

Speaker 2 grandmother was born. That's true.
Yeah. Oh.

Speaker 2 It's all coming around now, isn't it?

Speaker 1 R.I.P., Melissa.

Speaker 2 Melissa. He's texting me.
Sorry,

Speaker 2 it's really rude that I'm pulling my phone out as much as I am.

Speaker 1 No, what do you mean? We have to know.

Speaker 2 Oh, mum's mum, Margaret.

Speaker 1 Oh, Margaret.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Margaret. I knew it was Margaret.
I would have said that. Maggie.
Margaret. Yeah, there you go.
Margaret. I knew it was Margaret.
Wake up, Maggie. I think I got something to say to you.

Speaker 2 I've done a lot of singing on this podcast so far. It's great, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really, really taking it in he's also a fan of glasgow celtic is he really yeah yeah who was rod stewart

Speaker 1 oh rod stewart yeah yeah he passed away huh no he's alive and well oh good

Speaker 1 people said he passed

Speaker 2 i'm glad he's doing good now i tell you i think so i think he just played uh i think he just played glastonbury like last week or something i was gonna be uh i was gonna be disappointed for a bit

Speaker 2 thank god he's alive yes

Speaker 1 if you're watching rod yeah um you mentioned glastonbury a few minutes ago you just returned huh huh?

Speaker 2 I just got back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just got, just came back on stage. A bit of a comeback moment thing.
Yeah, it was lovely. It was like a really special, special moment.

Speaker 2 I didn't, two years ago, I basically had like this,

Speaker 2 I don't want to call it like a mental breakdown, but it was like a breakdown of sorts on stage that had been a long time coming, to be honest, on stage at that Glastonbury in 2023.

Speaker 2 And then I took two years off to sort of like recalibrate and re-sort of, you know, did a lot of therapy and got myself in a much better headspace and dealt with.

Speaker 2 I had been told I had Tourette's and stuff, and that was really causing me a lot of stress. And I didn't know how to deal with it.

Speaker 2 And now, yeah, after these two years off, I really wanted to come back and,

Speaker 2 you know, do Glastonbury and sort of like, as a mental sort of win, sort of finish the thing that I couldn't finish before.

Speaker 2 And it was amazing. Yeah, like really, really special.
Maybe like the best day of my life, to be honest. It was like a really, really special moment.

Speaker 2 And I'm just, yeah, I'm really glad that we got to do it.

Speaker 1 and it was just yeah blew my mind about yeah mad mad mad mad yeah I mean I've seen the videos it looks uh you can feel the energy in both in both of the uh

Speaker 1 the the the the the performances i've seen on youtube you can feel the energy in both of them was part of you like glad like

Speaker 1 you know there's this weird like because you're very transparent, I feel like, with your audience. I feel like as much as you can be.
And I think as a human, right? You try to put yourself out there

Speaker 1 as uh as well as you know yourself yeah and that's how you try to present yourself yeah yeah and of course we're always like getting to know ourselves more right and so that will change over time um were you

Speaker 1 were you glad almost in a weird way that some of that kind of like i don't want to call it a breakdown but some of like that like that that reel of a moment in your life was there a little bit of you that was glad or were you scared that it happened in such a public way does that make any sense no no it makes complete sense.

Speaker 2 And I was. I was so happy.
Like, when I came off stage, like, when it happened and when it was happening, it was like the lowest moment of my life, and it was horrible. But, like, I made this,

Speaker 2 I had this moment where I was on stage, like, two, three songs in. I was like, this is the last time I'm going to play a gig for a long time.

Speaker 2 I was like, I need to try and get through the rest of the show, but when I come off, I'm done.

Speaker 2 So, when I got off stage, it was obviously, again, horrible at the moment on stage and experiencing it or all or whatever. But excuse me,

Speaker 2 I, when I got off stage, everyone else around me was a bit like, oh, this is the worst thing ever. And I had this weird sort of

Speaker 2 a weight had been lifted of, like, oh, now

Speaker 2 this thing's happened and I have to get help sort of thing. It wasn't, I had been putting it off because, funnily enough, a few weeks prior to that show in Glassman, we were playing in Chicago

Speaker 2 and I had a very similar episode, which was probably even worse, the one in Chicago. I couldn't come back on stage and finish the song.

Speaker 2 I was like backstage convulsing and having like this crazy panic attack, mental

Speaker 2 episode. It was really, really bad.
Way worse than what happened at Glastonbury.

Speaker 2 But because Glastonbury is such a, like you say, like a big stage and a big moment, it was the first time people outside of maybe, you know, my shows or whatever had seen it.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, at Glastonbury, when I came off stage, I it was weird. I had this, oh, everything's all right now, and I can actually go and get help and fix myself for the next two years.
And it was,

Speaker 2 yeah, in a weird way, it's probably the best thing that ever happened to me at that moment at Glastonbury in 2023 because it was just,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't have stopped otherwise.

Speaker 2 If I could think, I'm really bad for,

Speaker 2 I'll say I am really bad. I was really bad for

Speaker 2 not saying no to things. Yeah.
Like feeling like, oh, this is going to pass me by if I don't say yes to this.

Speaker 2 All this amazing stuff's coming at me now, and I have to like catch it all and sort of get it all done and

Speaker 2 do this. Um, otherwise, these moments are going to pass me by, and I'm, you know, it's never going to happen again.

Speaker 2 So, I said yes to way too much, and I took way too much on, and everyone around me was like,

Speaker 2 was asking me, Are you sure this is okay? Should I say, I was like, Yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. Um, but yeah, so Glastonbury 2023 was for sure the biggest, like,

Speaker 2 um,

Speaker 2 was, yeah, really important, um, and, like, my, yeah, maybe the most important day of my life, to be honest, because it was such a, um,

Speaker 2 yeah, I wouldn't have stopped otherwise. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It was like almost like a blessing, kind of.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like someone upstairs was like, this has to happen now. Otherwise,

Speaker 2 I don't want to think about where I would be now if I hadn't

Speaker 2 continued to do it. Because we may go to Australia and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 You could have fallen apart, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, exactly. It could have been really, really.

Speaker 2 Yeah, horrible. I dread to think.
Yeah. What would have happened otherwise? Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, a bit of a a blessing in disguise, I think, for sure.

Speaker 1 And, you know, what I thought about, like,

Speaker 1 I felt like it was just like, I think we're at a time where people just want to see something that's real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
You know, they want to see somebody that's like,

Speaker 1 you know, that's not hiding all their tough times, you know, that's trying to at least be earnest, as earnest as you can, you know?

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I just thought it was,

Speaker 1 yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think seeing something that's real,

Speaker 1 and especially if if it's somebody like you that is

Speaker 1 you know you're an emotional guy you have a lot of feelings and it's and you have a lot of feelings that we all have that we can't put into words and so you know we we like look to you to be like this like

Speaker 1 you know almost somebody that's like uh speaking for us not that you're doing that through ego or anything yeah but just that you're like a conduit for some of the feelings that we can't explain yeah maybe i think so but then i look to like other people like that oh for sure i think we all do but just the fact that then you uh are able to like

Speaker 1 just that you're so present and real, it feels like with your with with people and with your fans or you know, people that support you, yeah, yeah, that for you to have a real moment, it just um, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I guess

Speaker 1 I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say. I guess

Speaker 1 I'm an idiot.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
It's like people are sort of craving a bit of like authenticity, I think.

Speaker 1 Well, and also, if you hadn't had it in such a real way, would you

Speaker 2 Well, that's the thing. I think for a long time, I was like...

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. No, you're grand.

Speaker 2 You're grand.

Speaker 2 I think for a long time I was like surface level talking about my mental health.

Speaker 2 I think for a long time prior to that moment in 2023, I was like,

Speaker 2 yeah, I get, I have panic attacks or I get anxious. But I wasn't like really, I feel it.
And I still, I'm bad for this now.

Speaker 2 Like, I give people enough that sometimes they think they're getting the whole story, and actually, I'm holding quite a lot back sometimes. Um, and I think I was doing that quite heavily at the time.

Speaker 2 So, when that happened at Glastonbury, it was this real thing of like

Speaker 2 the sort of things been the masks being pulled off, and it's like this,

Speaker 2 yeah, you're just there and in front of everybody. So, um,

Speaker 2 yeah, as I say, it was like this. Um, you, I didn't have had no choice but to confront things, and I think, yeah, I was really taken aback by the sort of outpouring of

Speaker 2 love and support that people had shared. It was really like

Speaker 2 an emotional time, like coming back and seeing so many people reaching out and being

Speaker 2 kind and sort of sharing their stories with me and all this stuff.

Speaker 2 It was really special. But yeah, I know what you mean.
I feel like everybody's looking for something that's a bit real or tangible to sort of hold on to, I think.

Speaker 1 Something that's human, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 Did you feel any embarrassment when you came back? And not that you should or anything. I just think that feelings are interesting, right?

Speaker 1 So sometimes you'll feel embarrassed about things, even if you should, you know, it's all interesting.

Speaker 1 Like, we show up to everything with different feelings, and trying to, you're always trying to juggle all these feelings in all these moments, you know? Was there any embarrassment?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I feel, I feel embarrassment all the time. Honestly, like, I don't know if, I don't know if you agree with this, right?

Speaker 2 But, like, see, being like famous, I find it's the most embarrassing thing of all.

Speaker 2 Or, like, well-known. Like, I walk into every room and I'm like, either, you're either not famous enough or too famous to be in a a room.

Speaker 2 I know it sounds like very first of all problems, but let me land here. But it's like this thing of like, either walk into a room and it's like,

Speaker 2 again, I'm totally projecting and no one's probably even looking at me like this, but like, 100%. I sometimes feel like either it's like everyone thinks that I think that I'm

Speaker 2 awesome. And I'm walking out of a room and I'm like, look at me, I'm this famous guy and blah, blah, blah.
Or people walk into the room and go, oh, who does he think he is doing this or that?

Speaker 2 I just feel fame in general and being well-known is the most embarrassing thing to me.

Speaker 2 I just get like, I just feel so like cringed up all the time with like when it comes to like that sort of side of things.

Speaker 1 It's the brightest, ugliest suit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're walking out of a room and like, I don't know, it's, it's, it's mental.

Speaker 2 And then I sort of have this thing where I walk into a room and I assume that, oh, everyone in this room is probably doesn't like me because they've seen something online that I said once, or they think I try too hard to be silly or funny or they think i try my music shit or they think i think i am better than i am or i just think yeah trying to manage people's expectations or thoughts yeah yeah yeah yeah and then your whole life becomes and i know some people are like listen to these guys who have everything complaining right and i understand that but we're going to keep doing it for another minute right

Speaker 1 just to explore what it's like because Also being popular, it's almost just like life's like an experiment and you have different moments.

Speaker 1 Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's horrible, but it's all just like i look at it as like okay this is what's going on now and what is this like you know and uh yes sometimes then you start thinking okay i have to spend so much time making sure that everybody thinks that i'm okay yeah yeah right that i'm cool that i'm okay enough to them yeah yeah so then that can be like a trap it can all be just kind of like um i don't know it can get a little bit interesting but that's another thing as well like this uh like even like having that thought of like fuck is this yeah is this complaining too much or whatever?

Speaker 1 But like, oh, I'll text these guys in the middle of the night. Does this seem gay? Does this seem racist?

Speaker 1 Those are two of the big ones.

Speaker 1 Am I okay? These motherfuckers are trying to sleep in their homes.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 And their coworkers text me at midnight. Am I okay?

Speaker 2 Like, we don't fucking know.

Speaker 1 Look, fucking, look at your ring camera, you idiot.

Speaker 2 I don't know. But that's true.

Speaker 2 It's like this thing of like, even the thoughts of, even the thoughts of, even like the thing I just said, you're either, I'm already like overthinking that thing I said about you're either too famous or not famous enough in a room because I'm like, I'm embarrassed that I even like even talking about being famous is embarrassing, or even like referring to yourself as being famous is embarrassing.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? And again, you're only famous to people who know you, really. You're not famous to ever like

Speaker 2 thingy. So it's like, and it, I don't know, it's such like a

Speaker 2 mental, you do like so many mental gymnastics, I think, thinking for sure.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Look, man, it's interesting to talk about.
And you know what I think? It's interesting to to imagine

Speaker 1 that it's interesting to imagine that you're important, right? Yeah, yeah. That's an interesting thing.

Speaker 1 It's like that you're like, I've noticed this sometimes. Like

Speaker 1 if other people think I'm important,

Speaker 1 then it gives me, I don't have to. think I'm important.
Like it's almost like I'm using the fact that they think I'm important in some way.

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, then I can just get my importance through that

Speaker 1 instead of creating my own importance for myself. Does that make any sense or is that crazy?

Speaker 2 No, 100%. It's like you're getting, but then it's that sort of that again, I guess it goes back to like external validation.

Speaker 2 100% of that, which is like, I was thinking about this on the way over as well: how

Speaker 2 attack, like, because I'm coming back into this, like,

Speaker 1 um, like, yeah, you have a new tour coming out. You're coming back into

Speaker 2 this, what's stepping into like spotlight again, or like this sort of world again. And I'm really trying not to

Speaker 2 get that validation externally. But it's quite difficult.
Like, I'm just, I already feel it, like, in little bits of things. I've only been

Speaker 2 back for like a week and a half here, and I'm already like, you know, looking through comments and getting all the excited when I see like a nice comment, and then, like, really down when I see an awful one.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I'm trying to stop myself and be like, no, this is like, this is the stuff that got you sort of where you were last time. It's important to not

Speaker 2 feed into it. And it's just, um, it's just really, yeah, it's like such an interesting thing.
And I don't think it's exclusive to being well known or being.

Speaker 1 I think a lot of it's human, too. Yeah, yeah.
A lot of it's just human stuff, you know? And I think this, you're almost like, I think with popularity and stuff, you almost become like a lab mouse.

Speaker 1 You almost become like just this heightened level of a lot of things.

Speaker 1 And so,

Speaker 1 you know, it's interesting to talk about. Well, dude, as a fan of yours and as,

Speaker 1 you know, somebody you've helped me feel, you know,

Speaker 1 you know, no homo dude, have feelings and shit over the years type shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But dude, yeah, I don't think you could ever.

Speaker 1 I think you'd have to try very hard

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 1 to have a realistic person think that you're a bad person. I think.

Speaker 2 Likewise, like, I think that's like,

Speaker 2 I think it's, that's why I think I'm such a fan of yours as well.

Speaker 2 Like, I just feel like talking about being real and stuff, like, I've seen clips of yours where you're like, again, showing emotion and stuff.

Speaker 2 And it really, it really resonates resonates with me in a big way. So I feel like it's, yeah, it's just nice to like,

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 1 you're funny. Your grandmother texts me.

Speaker 2 Sorry, it's getting fucking kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 But no, I appreciate it, man. We're trying our best, you know, and it's and sometimes it's a battle.
And yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt you. That was kind of mean of me, dude.

Speaker 2 Wasn't me at all. Honestly, I was rambling.

Speaker 1 Do you worry?

Speaker 1 But thanks for the nice words, dude.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it all becomes, and then you start to become like, well, this how people think you are, you're,

Speaker 1 is that how you really are? And then you're like, Am I holding up just an image of myself? Yeah, who am I? Even it's all kind of interesting, right?

Speaker 1 I think, but as long as you try to just stay aware of that, that's kind of what's going on, then it can all be kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 Um, I think it's important to remind yourself who you are away from all this. I think that's what me having to

Speaker 2 pervert away from it.

Speaker 1 Honestly, no offense, ladies. I don't know, and no offense, Scott, either.

Speaker 2 No, but

Speaker 2 I think it's important to have that sort of um, yeah, that sort of awareness of

Speaker 2 when all this is gone, like who

Speaker 2 am I or what am I? Yeah. You know, I have more.
I think I have, I'd like to think I had more to offer than, you know, singing a few songs or

Speaker 2 being silly on social media or stuff like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and more to offer myself, too. That's what I think about sometimes.
100%.

Speaker 1 At what point do I start offering, like trying better to focus on offering things to my own life? I don't know.

Speaker 1 Now we might be wading into some fucking ego waters, but that's okay. Yeah, let's back out of that.

Speaker 1 how do you keep things from being different than like what kind of like led to like some of the uh

Speaker 1 you know, like mild traumas or things that happened last time that led you to the point where you were really suffering?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think for me, like, I wasn't doing any therapy, I wasn't really looking after myself at all.

Speaker 2 Uh, it's not like I'm like hitting the gym like every fucking day or whatever, like, or whatever, but like I just think in general, making better choices in terms of

Speaker 2 you know, every aspect of my life. I do therapy every week now as well, which has been really

Speaker 2 beneficial for me. I think I've really

Speaker 2 been maybe the

Speaker 2 biggest thing that's switched everything around.

Speaker 1 Is your therapist a man or one?

Speaker 2 A man. A man named Owen.
Owen O'Kane. Very nice fellow.
Owen what? O'Kane.

Speaker 1 Owen O'Kane. Yeah, Irish.
Oh. Yeah.
God.

Speaker 1 So you'll end up decent if you get better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. At best.

Speaker 1 You'll end up decent at best, dude.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's him there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Very good.

Speaker 1 Is it okay that we say his name and stuff?

Speaker 2 I think so yeah i'm sure he'll i'm sure he'll be more than happy with oh that's class oh he's an author as well yeah he's an author oh that's amazing man he's been amazing he's been amazing for me in the last uh the last little while it's just been uh who turned you on him uh it was my management that that got through to him and stuff who had got heard from someone else or whatever but it was just when i came off the stage at Glastonbury it was like immediately first thing I need is therapist and then did they put you in an ice bath when you got off or what did they do do they like just or did they just fucking sit and have a pint and be like that was a that was a wild one?

Speaker 1 Like, were you able to calm down right after you came off the stage?

Speaker 2 I went, I went out and I went, I flew back to Glasgow that night and went out and had pints.

Speaker 2 That's the most Scottish shit I've ever heard, dude.

Speaker 1 I did, but yeah, I could be getting a heart transplant.

Speaker 2 He's fucking,

Speaker 2 yeah, no, I woke up and I went straight to straight to the pub.

Speaker 2 And so it was just a nice, I just had to like go and do something normal rather than hanging and be around mates and get back at that sort of place.

Speaker 2 So, uh, so yeah, went out and kicked the arse out like properly, but it was it was very much needed. Do you know what I mean? So,

Speaker 2 but yeah, and then it became,

Speaker 2 yeah, and then afterwards, we did a bunch of shit with therapists and neurologists as well for like my Tourette's and stuff. I'm take medication for that and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 And just in general, try to reduce stress as much as possible. I think it's been a massive thing.
And I think that's where that sort of what I was saying about saying no to things is becoming quite a.

Speaker 2 I'm realizing how

Speaker 2 important that can be with

Speaker 2 stuff. Cause it's just, it's one of those things of like, if it doesn't, oh, this thing, you won't, won't get this again if you don't say yes now.

Speaker 1 I'm like, okay, cool. Or somebody will be unhappy or something like that.

Speaker 1 I've done meet and greets, I think, for probably 97% of my shows after, right? Just for free, just meet, you know.

Speaker 1 But sometimes I just can't do it anymore, and it's okay. Yeah, of course.
You know? Like, I had like, I don't know if it was like, I don't know what happened to me.

Speaker 1 Something happened to me like a couple years ago. I just felt like this loud crack even like in my head.
Yeah, yeah and i was like all right and i've never been i don't think fully the same since then

Speaker 1 yeah really but i don't know what happened you know but i just knew that i had to shut it down and i had to start taking better care of myself yeah yeah and um because at first i thought the stress was like oh you're not working hard enough you're not figuring this out well

Speaker 1 but that's not the truth the truth was i just you know like there wasn't going to be anything left of me you know i just didn't have anything left so i had to tighten it up yeah man definitely i think that's the that's the thing as well

Speaker 2 sometimes you feel like like you're saying i like what you said there.

Speaker 2 The stress felt like I wasn't doing enough or whatever, but it's actually like taking your foot off the gas as opposed to putting it on. Yeah.
And I think that's the important thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and now I'll shut down.

Speaker 1 Like, if it's a certain conversation or somebody's talking to me, sometimes if somebody's speaking in a certain pentameter or things are too fast or something, I'll just say, hey, I can't even be in this conversation.

Speaker 1 Like, I just have to, like, because you'll just start to kind of lose your mind. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, with the Tourette's, was it getting cool or was it getting bad? Like, what kind, what kind were you getting cut?

Speaker 2 This is the cool kind where you know yeah no it wasn't it wasn't the cool kind i was like

Speaker 2 i used to do a stinger time when i would go like this like i'd be sitting having this conversation with you and i'd be like this oh yeah like a third base coach in foot in baseball or something you know yeah like doing signals yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 2 so i used to do that and i used to like contort my back and stuff in ways so i had to get like this i wanted to get this feeling in my muscles when it felt like it was pulling and like cracking and like i was causing myself some real pain um and i had to just i just for some reason in my head, I was like, I need to feel this to know that.

Speaker 2 I don't know. It was, it was almost like it was like,

Speaker 2 I, sorry, I'm saying like a lot and it annoys me.

Speaker 1 But, um, I think you're doing fine.

Speaker 2 All right, cool. Yeah, good, good, good.
Um, we can do that.

Speaker 1 No, I've noticed when people say like a lot, I have not noticed that today.

Speaker 2 All right, cool, good, good, good. Um, the uh, yeah, no, it was almost like when I felt I was out of body,

Speaker 2 I would try and do this like twitch or something to sort of bring myself back in. Wow.
Uh, It was really weird. It was really weird.
And I looked like I was like on copious amounts of cocaine.

Speaker 2 Like, yeah, like I was tweaking. Do you know what I mean? I really, really looked like I was tweaking.

Speaker 1 Oh, you look like you were hailing a freaking air taxi with Bobby Taylor over there.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's fascinating, though. So you would get a feeling, and then some of the ticks would make you feel like you're almost getting back into your skin.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, that's what I felt like. And I can't speak for everyone.

Speaker 1 That's fascinating, though.

Speaker 2 I think they call it like a pre-monetary urge or something, sorry. And I think

Speaker 2 I,

Speaker 2 yeah, I was getting them all the time. And when I was performing, it was like really prevalent.
Because it was like you would get it

Speaker 2 if you're excited. Any sort of extreme emotion would bring it on or like tired or anything.
So it was, yeah, it was bizarre. It was really, really bizarre.
But like,

Speaker 2 now I'm noticing even more.

Speaker 2 No, it sounds good.

Speaker 1 Premonetary, it's called?

Speaker 2 Premonitary urge. Yeah, thank fuck.
I remembered that.

Speaker 1 A premonitory urge is a sensory experience, like an itch or a feeling of pressure that occurs before a tick, an individual with Tourette syndrome or other tick tick disorders.

Speaker 1 Premonitory urges are physical sensations. These urges can manifest as feelings of tension, pressure, an itchy sensation, or a feeling that something is building up and needs to be released.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 Nice.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 I definitely

Speaker 1 had about for 15 years. I had a

Speaker 2 premonitory urge.

Speaker 1 Still doing pretty bad. Yeah.
I'm just two days off of premonitory urge, dude.

Speaker 1 But I needed it. Couldn't sleep.

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Speaker 1 You know, workplace stress. Let's talk about that.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about that. The constant feeling like you have to put out, you have to create, you have to be able, evolve.
It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of stress.

Speaker 1 But keeping all that inside of yourself, that doesn't help.

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Speaker 1 But wow, man, that's kind of fascinating. Well, one thing that I think is so interesting

Speaker 1 about people like you who are like, you know,

Speaker 1 poets, wordsmiths, and, you know, and that's okay. That's what you are, right? You have an ability to share things through words and language.

Speaker 1 Is that when something like this is a part of your world, you can probably express it to people better than some people who don't have that same ability, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, maybe, maybe. I don't know.
I'm yet to like really delve into it because I'm still like figuring it out as well.

Speaker 1 I find I'm better at it. You're still what?

Speaker 2 Figuring it out. Figuring it out.
Yeah, yeah. I find I'm better

Speaker 2 at like

Speaker 2 sort of talking about something once I've understood it a bit more.

Speaker 2 I'm not really good at

Speaker 2 talking about things as they're happening, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Yes, 100%. It's like

Speaker 2 or explaining or writing about stuff as it's like, um, yeah, happening. I feel like, oh, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 No, it's like things are better when you have a chance to look at them, yeah, yeah, with the benefit of hindsight, for sure, oh, yeah. So, I'm at, oh,

Speaker 1 that's the craziest thing about life, though. Sometimes it's like I don't get, I'm always waiting for hindsight in my life, you know?

Speaker 1 And the problem is then you've gone on relative term, and also you've gone on from whatever the wherever you could have had an effect on things yeah yeah for sure i'll always like delay trying to have like make a choice yeah until things are in hindsight but then it's too late yeah yeah you know sometimes i do that a bit yeah yeah um

Speaker 2 when did you go to therapy for the first time ever was it after that no no i went to therapy before i've tried therapy a bunch of times and uh like no it's obviously i'm not um

Speaker 2 I don't want to sound disparaging to any other therapists I've been to.

Speaker 2 I've been to amazing therapists, but I never really had like a connection with any of them or like

Speaker 2 or sort of felt clicked.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 A lot of times people go and they think just because they're going to what they're well, I don't want to say a lot of times people do things.

Speaker 1 A lot of times I have gone to therapist for years and I didn't know that I was really supposed to have like a relationship that I could be honest in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It was like finally, this was supposed to be like whether I wanted to pretend like the therapist was my mother or my girlfriend or my brother or a friend.

Speaker 1 I could pretend like they were that and say things to them that I've always wanted to say to that other person.

Speaker 1 But I never realized that that's how it was a good way to use a therapist. I always just thought a lot of times it was like just sit and talk only about how I feel.

Speaker 1 And it didn't matter if I was learning anything. I just thought, oh, since I'm going to a therapist, you're ticking a box there or something.
Right, I'm checking a box. I didn't even realize that.

Speaker 1 Anyway, sorry to interrupt you.

Speaker 2 No, no, for sure. And I think, just to your point there, I was going to a lot of these therapists and I was just,

Speaker 2 I felt like I was just saying what they wanted to hear after a certain point.

Speaker 2 I was looking at the clock and sort of being like, right, okay, what is the, what is the thing I can say to get me out of here, the quickest store

Speaker 2 that makes them think I've like, yeah, I wanted them to think that I had a grasp of like my mental health.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, I want to be my own doctor or something.

Speaker 2 And they would say stuff and I would then, I just found myself, I was parrying everything that they were sort of when it went or when things, and this is what's great about my current therapist is really good at this.

Speaker 2 If we go somewhere, he can sense when I'm being avoidant or being sort of

Speaker 2 being avoidant is the word. And he sort of pulls me back in and is saying,

Speaker 2 there's a reason you're being sort of wishy-washy here or anything like that.

Speaker 1 So was there an initial moment when you noticed them? Like, was there like one moment that you're like, oh, wow.

Speaker 2 What with this therapist? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. It was, it was actually, I cancelled a session.
I cancelled two sessions back to back.

Speaker 2 And he was on it, like, giving me, I want to say grief, grief's the wrong word, but like

Speaker 2 he was saying, I don't, we don't have to do this. He was very like forthcoming in the fact of, if you don't want to do this, this is totally fine.
But

Speaker 2 it feels like you're not engaging with this in a way that's

Speaker 2 beneficial to you or to, or like wasting his time as well. So

Speaker 2 for me, I was, that was like a

Speaker 2 I really, I really respond to that sort of not letting me away with shit. Do you know what I mean? And I find that in the sessions now as well.
I find it really

Speaker 2 beneficial when there's, you know, someone called, I like when people call me out on my shit. Yeah.
Because otherwise I'll just keep shitting.

Speaker 1 Keep shitting.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I'll keep on shitting.
I'm always shitting.

Speaker 1 Oh, dude, the story of my life. You just fucking literally explained the story of my life.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like, I'll fuck it, I'll fucking get a drum, I'll get some juggling balls, I'll tell a riddle, I'll fucking do whatever I got to do

Speaker 1 for you not to corner me in a fucking serious moment.

Speaker 2 100%. 100%.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, that's been.

Speaker 2 I just found that to be really,

Speaker 2 I don't know. Like, it was very.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just felt it was really good for me to get that sort of response from someone to be like, I don't like what you're doing here.
Or this isn't.

Speaker 2 conducive to a healthy relationship with therapy.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 So yeah, it was funny. That was probably the one that I was like, okay, this is, this seems to be,

Speaker 2 this might be the guy for me. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dude, yeah, I think now I have Tourette's when I

Speaker 1 like I every this is when I get tourettes. It's like

Speaker 1 if I'm sitting somewhere with my freaking girlfriend or whatever, and she's like, I don't think this is working out or whatever. And this is why.
And then I just like get Tourette's.

Speaker 1 Like, I just can't be honest, you know?

Speaker 1 I just get so scared to be honest.

Speaker 1 And I don't really get like tourettes like you're saying, but it is, but it is a form of threats. It's this, it's this.

Speaker 2 Get me out of here. Yes.

Speaker 1 It's this get me out of, get just,

Speaker 1 get me out of like,

Speaker 1 I just like, I don't know. It's so hard for me to stay in a moment

Speaker 1 with one other person. It's hard for me to stay in a moment that's not completely in my control.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Do you ever find that with like people?

Speaker 2 I always find I'm really good in groups, but then sometimes if I'm just one-on-one with someone, even if it's someone I've known my whole life, I'll be like, what the fuck did I say to that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, what the fuck is your name? Something in the car, my daddy.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 you're standing there with your grand. What do you say again to people? Like, what is the thing you're meant to?

Speaker 2 How am I meant to start a conversation with someone? Do you know what I mean? Even like my best friends. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think I'm a good auxiliary player. Do you know what I mean? Good sideline player.
But yeah, no,

Speaker 2 I empathize with that situation for sure.

Speaker 1 I never thought about it till just now. Yeah, yeah.
But that's my Tourette. It's like this, like,

Speaker 1 and I literally can feel my fucking skin being like why are you keeping us here

Speaker 1 you know yeah yeah for sure and like yeah i mean i remember one time having a conversation like a real conversation with a girlfriend in the car and i literally put the window down and hung my arms out of the window like Like I wanted to get out

Speaker 1 like as much of me as could be out here needed to not be in this vehicle

Speaker 1 having this real moment of me having to commit to this relationship.

Speaker 1 I'm going to pee really fast. Can we take a break for just a minute?

Speaker 2 Please. Okay.
Empty this tank.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude. Thanks for sitting.
I just take a take a wee. Oh, you guys call it a wee.
I took a pee.

Speaker 2 It took a wee.

Speaker 2 A pes.

Speaker 1 That's crazy that it's one, just we're not, because we're only six hours away from each other by ocean, and we call it somehow the letter change.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's true. It's fucking baffling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A pes or a slash.
Ooh. A slash is a good one.
I'm going for a slash.

Speaker 1 Going for a slash. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you come back with blood on your clothes. Your fucking neighbor's missing

Speaker 1 see it's crazy how that changed as well from going to america yeah over there you're going for a slash you're just going to fill up a toilet you know over here it's something more sinister yeah over here you're fucking making a dateline episode

Speaker 1 it's just crazy how things just really fall off as you go across the ocean um no but man yeah thanks for talking about some of that because even just helped me think like some of those things it's like hard to realize until you get into conversations where you're talking about some of this stuff you know of course and then you got to be careful because your ego will start to be like you know what you're talking about so that for me sinners is a trap and i think i gotta like just like go to more recovery meetings and stuff so i don't get just that i'm the only voice i'm hearing yeah yeah of course yeah that's when it gets really scary for me like then i feel like i know something yeah yeah that's the thing that's why i'm like i'm really enjoying this because we've been doing the interviews all day and it's very one

Speaker 2 sort of one way and you start i don't know if you find this that if you're doing stuff or whatever promo or whatever but like um yeah, you're just talking about yourself all the time.

Speaker 2 And I feel like it just becomes this, like,

Speaker 2 I don't know, it just fucks me in ahead slightly.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, it's a shitty song, especially if you're a creative person. I feel like after a while, just talking about yourself is just a song you've played.

Speaker 1 And it's not even,

Speaker 1 it's just like pieces of you that, uh, it's almost like fool's gold, some of it in a way. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 Um, yeah, that's one thing I noticed about you, man, is just even in asking one question to me, it's like, because it's really kind of a conversation, you know? Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 was drinking or anything like that a part of like stuff that because if you were on the road like drinking diet um

Speaker 1 like not getting massages this massages something that's helped me yeah um were there things that you had to adjust uh

Speaker 2 that were also creating more havoc for you yeah for sure i feel like i definitely drank too much uh initially like with my um

Speaker 2 I basically had cut out booze completely when we were on tour

Speaker 2 on these like

Speaker 2 for the last like 2022, I'd say I stopped drinking when I was on tour or whatever, or 2023, I can't remember. But

Speaker 2 yeah, because booze, like I like having a good time. Oh, yeah.
I love having a good time. And I would really enjoy.
I wouldn't be someone who sits by themselves and has like smashes beers or whatever.

Speaker 2 I'm much more social. I like the social aspect of boozing and going out and having a nice time and stuff.
So, but yeah, I definitely,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't say I was a problem drinker, but it was definitely getting in the way. There was an amazing

Speaker 2 thing that a guy we were supporting

Speaker 2 Sam Smith on tour in 2018, and the monitor engineer was a guy called Lee. Was it Lee? Remember Lee? And he said

Speaker 2 to me,

Speaker 2 remember this thing, he was like, you can get fucked up and you can fuck up, but don't fuck up because you were fucked up.

Speaker 2 And I feel like that's really stuck with me. And there has been times where I have done that.
Like I have fucked up because I was fucked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 And I feel like for me, that was, but it is something that always ruminate, like, sort of,

Speaker 2 like, ruminates around in my head. And I feel, um,

Speaker 2 yeah, I've definitely had to like curtail my abozing at times and be a bit more

Speaker 1 responsible.

Speaker 2 Responsible, yeah. Choose my battles with it a little bit more.
If, because there's always an excuse to go out and

Speaker 2 and have a have a nice time and go have a drink or do this or that. And I'm like, all, I'm sort of all or nothing with it a bit.
Do you know what I mean? I'm not, again, not like a

Speaker 2 like I'm an alcohere.

Speaker 2 I just,

Speaker 2 if I'm going out, I'm going out. Do you know what I mean? I'm not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I think it's also part of you guys' culture a lot. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Like the binge drinking in the UK is like a feels like a bigger thing than yeah, you forgot your fucking grandmother. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I was saying in no judgment.

Speaker 1 Nan, we miss you.

Speaker 2 Margaret, yeah.

Speaker 1 We miss you, Margaret Melissa.

Speaker 1 We miss both of you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But look.

Speaker 1 But yeah, if you fucking drank so much through your childhood that you don't remember your grandmother, yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 People aren't shocked if you're like, hey, I think I just need to have some checks and balances for myself.

Speaker 2 But yeah, no, and like you say, diet and stuff like that has been important. I'm trying not to eat as much shite.
I've lost,

Speaker 2 I don't know what it would be in pounds. Two stone since, what is two stone in pounds?

Speaker 1 Two cents, 40 pounds, I think.

Speaker 2 Let's take a gander at it.

Speaker 2 28 pounds. 28 pounds pounds since the start of the year, which I'm kind of

Speaker 2 yeah, I feel good about that.

Speaker 2 And I want to lose more and stuff, but the problem with it when you're really fat, because I was 20 stone at the start of the year, so what is that? I'm giving my weight away here. What day is Denny?

Speaker 2 I was 280 pounds at the start of the year.

Speaker 1 Daddy, you understand that guy?

Speaker 2 You heard him?

Speaker 2 He uses no letters at all in his words.

Speaker 1 Fucking two letters, 11 words. God, I would never figure you out in a crossword puzzle.
I'd never.

Speaker 2 fucking, if you had a crossword puzzle, it'd be this me.

Speaker 1 70 words in it. I'm just joking, man.
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 But yeah, so I'm trying to get on top of that and stuff and just really

Speaker 2 sort that stuff out as well. But obviously, it's a process.

Speaker 1 Do you have

Speaker 1 more of a team now supporting you? Or do you have to bring other people on? I mean, you said you got a therapist, now you work with some.

Speaker 2 My brother's training me at the minute. Oh, that's good.
The brother that I text and stuff, he's like a qualified personal trainer now. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2 So he's been coming down to London and training me and stuff. So, that's been lovely.
And with diet and stuff, he's been helping, etc. Nice.

Speaker 1 But, um, you feel better about it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I feel better about it. I'm not, I hate it.
I hate exercising. Yeah, I fucking hate it.
Like, it's, I mean, people can probably tell by looking at me, but like, I'm not, I fucking hate it.

Speaker 1 Oh, dude, there's this. Pull up my TikTok, the save ones.
Um, there was this dude the other day, he had the funniest thing that I saw on there.

Speaker 1 It's a uh kind of like a black guy, about 30 years old, but it was pretty good.

Speaker 2 Theo save TikTok's hood Easter bunny sex human implanted with New Lake Plays a game skinny study about microplastics. This is a real.

Speaker 1 Oh, this is behind the scenes of my brain.

Speaker 2 You're getting inside the brain here.

Speaker 1 I didn't realize that till just now.

Speaker 2 This is a little bit alarming.

Speaker 1 I ain't gonna lie, you never realize how long a minute is

Speaker 2 until your ass starts fucking exercising. It's so true.
It's so true.

Speaker 2 Honestly. You never realize how long a minute is.
When you do like a plank. Yeah, you're like, what? Fuck me.
Yeah, yeah. It's intense.

Speaker 1 We got all the time in the world.

Speaker 1 Who is that guy? I just want to say his name.

Speaker 2 Richie Gatz.

Speaker 1 Richie Gatz. Richie Gatz.
Shout out to Richie Gats. Shout out Richie Gatz.
That's hilarious, dude.

Speaker 1 Dude, you have to get on a bunch of medication. You're all right.

Speaker 2 I'm on an antipsychotic just now called Arepiprazole.

Speaker 2 I was on antidepressants. I was on Sertraline, which I think is Zoloft.
Oh, yeah, I'm on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was interesting.

Speaker 2 Really,

Speaker 2 I couldn't,

Speaker 2 it didn't really, it just made me numb.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can't feel a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, can't feel a lot. And it really, I couldn't get like a hard on to save my life.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, or and when I did, it would be like this, it would be like a roller coaster that just kept going up. Oh, it never came down.
You know what I'm saying? Oh, dang.

Speaker 2 It was like, it was an intense period of time.

Speaker 2 But I uh, but I, yeah, so I came off that. But then the thing is, coming off it is like an as really an intense experience.
Unreal. And no one really gave me that heads up.

Speaker 2 So I was like really low and

Speaker 2 sort of,

Speaker 2 I wouldn't say I've ever.

Speaker 2 I'm always really careful about using the word depressed or whatever, but it's the closest I've felt to that feeling, I feel like, in my life. Yeah, it's scary.

Speaker 1 It feels like a trap door inside of you opened up, like right in the middle of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, fucking spot on. Like, it was so, um, yeah, so, so intense.
So, um, yeah, I was on that for a bit. And I don't think I

Speaker 2 maybe needed to be on that, um, especially for as long as as I was and for the dose I was on or whatever.

Speaker 2 But yeah, this I'm only on this Arpepazole antipsychotic, like five milligrams. And it was really scary when they were like,

Speaker 2 when they offered it up.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it sounds scary.

Speaker 2 Antipsychotic. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not psychotic.

Speaker 1 I hope we was doing better than that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But I, yeah.
But I'm on it now. And five milligrams before I go to bed, and it's

Speaker 1 changed my life, genuinely.

Speaker 2 Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's genuinely been a massive, massive help.

Speaker 2 It just did everything. Like, my mood, my anxiety levels are so low these days.
I'm just the stress that I used to feel. I don't feel the stress.

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't know if it's all related to this or other choices. I guess it's an amalgamation of things.
Right.

Speaker 1 But that's amazing, though. What's that called?

Speaker 2 Areprazole.

Speaker 1 Shit, maybe I'll try it.

Speaker 2 Get on that shit.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. I'll buy a bag of that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. What are the uses? Can we go down to the uses? The treat a rate and range of mental conditions.

Speaker 1 Are preprazole is used to treat a range of mental health conditions.

Speaker 2 Tourette's.

Speaker 1 Schizophrenia, bipolar one, major depressive disorder, irritability associated with autism spectrum disorder, and Tourette's. There you go.
Made it in the very end.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just snuck in there. Snuck in there at the end.
As the door was closing, slid on my knees.

Speaker 1 Maybe I would try that, man.

Speaker 1 Oh, what do you think about your songs being used for like on the voice and stuff like that? I'm all for it, man. In these foreign countries, though.

Speaker 2 This is beautiful. This is a really lovely thing.
That is cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 Can you write this? I wrote a song, yeah. I wrote this one, yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, and he gotta turn around. Come on, there.

Speaker 1 I hope so. It's a damn kid.
Look at him.

Speaker 1 At least turn around and tell him fucking give him some Uber money.

Speaker 1 These are rich people.

Speaker 2 No, this is incredible. I think this is beautiful.
I mean, this is like a really nice

Speaker 2 use of it and stuff. And he's great.
He's incredible.

Speaker 1 Wow, dude, imagine how brave you have to be to be that age and be able to continue to stand there and sing.

Speaker 2 Go on.

Speaker 2 That's

Speaker 1 I think you should sell the song to him. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 You know, I love all this. I think.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's cool, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is cool, man. I hadn't seen this.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Something's looking just channeling.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it gets a little bit too good, though. Do you know what I mean? Fucking just relax.

Speaker 1 Just calm down a little bit. Yeah, like, huh? Somebody throw him a freaking rugby ball.

Speaker 1 Definitely put him on the pitch and see who he really is.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a little bit too fucking good for my liking.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's beautiful. No, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 That's incredible.

Speaker 1 And what's that young man's name?

Speaker 2 Wow. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 Bjarn? Bjarn. Go on, Bjarn.

Speaker 1 Go on, Bjarn. That's amazing, man.
Yeah, you know,

Speaker 1 I just think it's interesting. Even watching that, it's like music's just such a

Speaker 1 conduit for other people to feel, you know?

Speaker 1 And it's crazy that the words can come out of some person, some pin, some

Speaker 1 moment, a feeling, and then it can metastasize.

Speaker 2 And this thing, I think,

Speaker 2 you never expect, like when you're writing a song, you're not thinking about that. You're not thinking someone will sing this on a TV show in Germany or a TV show.

Speaker 2 Like, they did it in the mass singer and stuff over here. It's just like, it feels really,

Speaker 2 I guess it's like an honor that people would take it and want to sing it like that, especially someone who's like a 10-year-old kid.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Pretty spectacular. So, yeah, I love it, man.
I just want to... Anything that gets, and this thing is getting the music out there and people are hearing it.
And I think it's just,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's amazing when that starts to happen.

Speaker 1 Is it tough to try to, like, whenever you recalibrate to write again, right? When you recalibrate?

Speaker 1 I know you have a new song, Survivor. No,

Speaker 1 Survivor just came out. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Is it tough to, and congrats, it's great, man. Thanks, man.
Yeah, too. I just started listening to it.
So sometimes it takes me a bit, even with songs.

Speaker 1 I'll listen to somebody's album the first time and be like, that's trash. Two weeks later, I will be fucking

Speaker 1 crying in the fucking back of my car. Yeah, yeah, I'm the exact same by myself dude i drove myself there and then got in the back and cried

Speaker 1 like this is bad but the music's good yeah um

Speaker 1 what uh is it hard to recalibrate like do you feel like you have to write for the like now you write trying to write for the stars like how does that get that's got to be interesting

Speaker 2 yeah i think um i'm not like a massive uh fan of I didn't grow up writing poetry or grow up I wanted to play live gigs And I, so it became a thing of

Speaker 2 right, everyone I know who plays live gigs, who I look up to as like singers or whatever, they all have their own songs. So I will write my own songs.
And then everyone I know who at the time

Speaker 2 who I looked up to,

Speaker 2 they all played guitar. So I'll learn how to play guitar.
So that I need to learn a guitar so I can write songs to then play them live. Do you know what I mean? So it was always just

Speaker 2 everything was a means to learn to get on stage and play live.

Speaker 2 So even now, I'm like, when I'm in

Speaker 2 studios or whatever,

Speaker 2 I find it, I do struggle a lot with like writing. That song there took me like a year to finish.

Speaker 2 That thing of

Speaker 2 people saying,

Speaker 2 you know, and I do get it, the best songs come the quickest or whatever, but that's like my biggest song, and that's

Speaker 2 that took me so long.

Speaker 2 And I think there is something to be said for, you know, persevering with stuff like that a little bit. But so, yeah, when I I get back to writing now, it is sometimes it's really difficult.

Speaker 2 Like, I really, um,

Speaker 2 have a hard time just I find it hard sometimes to get what I'm thinking,

Speaker 2 articulate what I'm what I'm trying to say. Oh, yeah.
Um, and I find that in lots of different walks of life or whatever. But, um, with

Speaker 2 yeah, with writing especially, I don't find it as easy as maybe I think I overthink things now a lot more. Yes.
Because I feel like people might actually hear this thing that I'm making.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? Whereas before,

Speaker 2 before it was like, no cunt's going to fucking listen to this. Do you know what I mean? So

Speaker 2 I,

Speaker 2 yeah, I really,

Speaker 2 yeah, I really now overthink that. But again, this is something I'm trying to unlearn and sort of get back to sort of basics and just write for me.

Speaker 2 And because I want to write and because I want to play and stuff like that. So

Speaker 2 yeah, it's always a bit of a difficult thing for me i don't i don't find it

Speaker 2 i don't like wake up i have to write something today do you know what i mean that doesn't like uh not always any not always anyway right i feel like um you've got to follow the feelings when you do have them so for example i haven't written a song in like six months recently yeah so for the last six months i've not written anything good for you though yeah yeah i feel like it was important to not

Speaker 1 to just take a bit of a break off i don't know if it's is it the same way like when you're doing stand-up or oh i think there's times like i'm looking forward to taking a little bit of a break, but at the same time, there's a part of me that's looking forward to starting with new stuff.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm just grateful that that little part of me exists because there's times that I'm like, well, I still want to do this.

Speaker 1 Or, you know, I think we all kind of feel those things at certain moments of like taking a break from something. Will it still be there when we come back? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But then let's say the absence that makes you

Speaker 2 when you miss it, that's a massive thing as well. Missing that sort of

Speaker 1 where you hear somebody write a great joke and you're like, I got to give it.

Speaker 2 I got to try again. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, of Like the other day, I heard Chris Rock talking and I was like, oh, he's just my favorite. Yeah.
And him and Louis TK. And I was like, oh, man, I just can't even believe.

Speaker 1 Like, I gotta get out there and try again and see what else is inside of me if there's more that I'm capable of. You know,

Speaker 2 it's not necessarily like a competitive thing. Maybe it's that I always find when I hear, if a friend of mine writes an amazing song and I hear it on the radio, I go, fuck, that's so incredible.

Speaker 2 It's not like I'm not wanting to, oh, I need to be better than them it's like oh I'd love to try and write something that comes anywhere close to how great that is

Speaker 1 or just to see what's in me I had no idea what's inside of me yeah I didn't know anything was inside of me

Speaker 1 exactly you know and then some shit came out and you know and it's been in it so yeah just like trying to figure out what's inside of me

Speaker 1 is there a lyric that you've ever written that you feel really proud of kind of like is there one that

Speaker 2 there's like a song I wrote called How I'm Feeling Now, which I wrote when I was really in the sort of shit

Speaker 2 with stuff. and the lyric is:

Speaker 2 so here's to my beautiful life that seems to leave me so unsatisfied, no sense of self, but self-obsessed. I'm always trapped inside my fucking head, on and on and on.

Speaker 2 I thought I'd be happier somehow. If you were wondering how I'm feeling now,

Speaker 2 and it's kind of about like my

Speaker 2 how I was feeling in terms of I've got everything I ever wanted, and I'm this like, Yeah, I'm so sad.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean? And I don't feel how I thought I would feel when I got to this point uh so that's something i'm really proud of there's also a song on this upcoming um

Speaker 2 uh this upcoming we're doing an ep at the minute or we're releasing a bunch of stuff and there's a song called the day that i die that i'm really really proud of literally um it's just like uh yeah it's a bit it's it's about that time when i was really feeling at my lowest that um i'm really excited for people to hear for sure That's cool, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 No, I'm buzzing. I'm buzzing about getting out there and seeing what people think.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 yeah yeah i wonder i'm trying to think like i love uh i like a lot of like uh

Speaker 2 like uk like um like dermot kennedy came on the podcast yeah yeah dude that'd be if you and him did a collaboration that'd be pretty amazing he's he's incredible he's so good dermit and i we were releasing stuff we kind of come up around the same time especially in that uk ireland sort of scene stuff but he is his voice is like if i

Speaker 2 when i was growing up if there was an artist like dermit kennedy around that was the sort of artist that I would have been like, all in on. That would have been like my sort of

Speaker 2 that's my type of shit, do you know what I mean? Like his last song, Let Me In or something, I think it's called, is brilliant. It's an amazing, amazing song.

Speaker 1 He's a gander at it real quick.

Speaker 2 Let me in.

Speaker 2 I could have stayed, never went home.

Speaker 2 It might have been brief, but at least I was free from all of my ghosts. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That live in my head like like reflections on water that only come once

Speaker 2 I still haven't learned deceptions in the cinematic version of law

Speaker 2 I can't get ignored these days

Speaker 2 All the world doesn't sing to me quite how it used to seem

Speaker 2 This life

Speaker 2 is a touch too damn much for me. Maybe that's meant for me.

Speaker 2 Cause I know there's a room where I'm happy,

Speaker 2 but I can't find my way to the door.

Speaker 2 Tell me who wins the war. In my heart and my head, I forgot what I'm suffering for.

Speaker 1 He's brilliant. He's great, man.
That's awesome. Yeah, dude.
If you guys did, there'd be no tears. They'd fuck.

Speaker 1 The oceans would be full.

Speaker 1 If you and Derrick McKenny did a song together, the oceans would be full, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It'd be done, it'd be a wrap, it'd be 100% salt water for the planet. We're done, the deserts are done.

Speaker 1 I'd love to, man.

Speaker 1 Um, or James Blake, did you ever listen to James Blake?

Speaker 2 I like James Blake as well, yeah. Retrograde and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you guys had, like, uh, I'm just trying to think of things that I like. Sorry, I'm trying to compare.

Speaker 2 No, no, please,

Speaker 1 um, yeah, or just like an up because then it would be like, or like, I wonder if he, I wonder if he's ever done any remix of your stuff.

Speaker 1 I don't know, I'm just thinking of like, I guess, British artists that I know, yeah, but James is such a you ever listen to Sam Fender? Sam Fender?

Speaker 2 Sam Fender's incredible. Uh-oh.
Kind of like, he's got that sort of like Bruce Springsteeny thing going on as well. He's he's fucking.

Speaker 2 He's probably like one of the biggest, maybe the biggest in the UK just now. Is he really? Yeah, he's he's.
I went to see him

Speaker 2 fucking

Speaker 2 at London, London Stadium recently. It was, he's he's a fucking special, special, special artist.
Wow.

Speaker 1 And it says he just cancelled shows to he had mental health. He was such a,

Speaker 2 do you know what's so funny? It's become

Speaker 2 every single,

Speaker 2 this is again, and not to go back to like fame or whatever, or even just it's really

Speaker 2 kind of sad, but like every

Speaker 2 person I know who's achieved something that they grew up aiming for or dreaming of or whatever seems to have this sort of, seems to struggle with it when it when they get it.

Speaker 1 Well, I think, I don't know, I think we're at a time where there's never been as much coverage of things.

Speaker 1 There's never been, we've never been in this time before

Speaker 1 as society. We've had people that have had popularity and fame over years, right?

Speaker 1 Or have achieved different amazing things or interesting things.

Speaker 1 But we've never had this much coverage, this much,

Speaker 1 I think, this much reflection of ourselves. Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 And I think people are suffering from it at all.

Speaker 1 I think it's a little bit of people are. dealing with that at all levels.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, at all levels of their lives.
But it is kind of fascinating because every

Speaker 1 generation you're into a new experience. So how does fame fit in this world

Speaker 1 when the reflection in the pond has gotten so much bigger? Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 Yeah, man. But yeah, something upbeat.

Speaker 1 Like if you guys and James Blake did like a trap, just something like fucking, you know, because he does like some, I'm just thinking of interesting things that I like.

Speaker 1 But I'll have to check out Sam Fender. Yeah, you do.

Speaker 1 Let me think. I want to ask you another question.
Oh, do you have a brother? You have a brother?

Speaker 2 I got two brothers and a sister. I'm the youngest of four.

Speaker 1 And what are they like?

Speaker 2 They're good, man. They're great.

Speaker 2 Obviously, we're all two years apart so okay yeah same in my family yeah yeah yeah so um how many how many are you of four four total two and two oh is it yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 1 any hardies in your in your

Speaker 2 it's an old american joke you know yeah yeah yeah it's an old catholic joke i'm catholic as well oh yeah yeah oh yeah brother yeah

Speaker 2 but oh that's us

Speaker 2 oh there you go right there you go that's me on the left there with the big ears oh there you go christ i got some myself lad yeah there you go. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's a good noise to make. We'll be fine.

Speaker 1 Oh, mine can hear yours.

Speaker 2 I think I'm mine or bigger.

Speaker 1 Okay, take me left to right. That's you right there.
And when's this picture taken? Do you know?

Speaker 2 I must be about two there. So maybe like 1998, 1999.
Maybe, I don't know. I'm totally fucking guessing.
But that's my sister Danny there. That's my brother, Warren.
Warden? Warren. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 W-A-R-R-E-N. Oh, Warren.
Warren.

Speaker 2 And that's Aiden on the right there.

Speaker 2 But yeah, they're great. Like, I love them.

Speaker 1 What do they like? What does Danny like to do?

Speaker 2 She likes to. She's a very social person.
She's very outgoing, very funny. Oh, beautiful lady.
Yeah, they are.

Speaker 2 And yeah, they're all

Speaker 2 great. Like, we get on.

Speaker 1 And what about Warren? Is he all right? Yeah, he's great.

Speaker 2 He was a musician as well. He kind of got me into sort of...

Speaker 2 music and stuff like that. He was sort of the,

Speaker 2 I guess, the catalyst for all of

Speaker 2 the older brother?

Speaker 1 He's the oldest. Well, everybody wants to be like their older brother.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, of course, man. He's

Speaker 2 amazing. He's a great guy.
And Aiden as well, the closest. Me and Aiden used to share a room, so we were probably like, I'd say maybe the closest of the four of us.

Speaker 2 But it's an interesting one because it's like

Speaker 2 I'd do it. Obviously, I would do anything.
But if one of them phoned me and was like, do you want to go for a beer? I'd be like, what's happened? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 What's going on here? Do you know what I mean? It's that sort of relationship. But they're, but yeah, they're great.
It's amazing. Very, very close family with them.
And my mum and dad as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a really,

Speaker 2 yeah, it's a nice sort of support network.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I saw some of your family on the documentary, I think.

Speaker 2 Yes, on Netflix.

Speaker 1 It was pretty cool to see.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man. Yeah, they're great.
My dad and my mum are very

Speaker 2 no-nonsense, like,

Speaker 2 yeah, working class. They're Scottish regions, yeah, yeah.
Proper, proper, proper, yeah, just salt with the earth people. And I feel like that's really helped.

Speaker 2 Like, they're very self-deprecating. We all take the piss out of each other, stuff like that.
So it feels

Speaker 2 yeah,

Speaker 2 that's really sort of shaped, I guess, who I am these days. Do you know what I mean? But they're great, it's amazing to have them because I speak to the most.

Speaker 2 My mom and dad, especially, I speak to the most most days. Yeah, yeah, I try to anyway.

Speaker 2 But yeah, it's

Speaker 2 great.

Speaker 1 Nice, man. Yeah, it is so nice to include them too.

Speaker 1 You are working with BetterHelp. I want to do want to say that before you leave because they sponsor our program a lot.

Speaker 1 We'll have them in this episode too.

Speaker 1 But you are working with BetterHelp to give away.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 734,000 free hours of therapy is the thing. It was like,

Speaker 2 so it's an hour, a thousand hours for every single day that I took off

Speaker 2 and I was away from, you know, touring and all the rest of it. I just feel like therapy was such a positive experience for me and things that I did.

Speaker 2 And really, yeah, it just really made me feel quite...

Speaker 2 It's just got me back to where I want to be.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were talking about it. It's part of your life now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I feel like if I can sort of

Speaker 2 give people because I don't necessarily think therapy is for everybody at all. Some things are better left in a box under the bed.
Do you know what I mean? I think

Speaker 1 talking about you, Ireland.

Speaker 1 But the shame in Ireland, fuck, they should have a fucking

Speaker 2 guilt, the Catholic guilt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they should have a high. They should be, Ireland should be sponsored by BetterHelp.

Speaker 2 But yeah, no, and I feel like if I could

Speaker 2 open up any sort of door for someone to try therapy for the first time or get, because sometimes it's expensive as well. And oh, yeah, and it's in the UK.

Speaker 2 Obviously, we've got the NHS free healthcare, but sometimes that's like overrun at the minute, and people are really struggling to get seen and get therapy through the NHS and stuff sometimes.

Speaker 2 And people might not have the means to go private or what else. So, um, so yeah, it was just one of these things.
And thank God fucking shout out to BetterHelp for being up for it and being sort of,

Speaker 2 yeah, being so

Speaker 2 forthcoming and being sound enough to

Speaker 2 do this with us. I think it's, yeah, hopefully it helps some people.

Speaker 1 And yes, that's the

Speaker 1 even just having that first experience with therapy, you know, and learning what it's about. And then also not feeling like, okay, now I have a therapist that this has to be perfect.

Speaker 1 It's just like a relationship in life. You try and find a good relationship.

Speaker 1 You find one that fits, but you also don't want one that fits too great because then it can just be a place of comfort where,

Speaker 1 you know, you're... Like I liked a little bit of conflict with my therapist because then I would be like, there would be times I'd be sitting with my therapist and I'd be like,

Speaker 1 I would want to say, like, at first, I'd be like, I want, I didn't like what they just said, right? Say they said something, I didn't like what they said. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But instead of saying that, I would just get quiet. Yeah,

Speaker 2 right.

Speaker 1 But then finally, one day I was like, I didn't like what you just said to me. Right.

Speaker 1 And then they were like, okay, that's great. Right.
Let's work with that. Yeah.
You know, opens up a conversation.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But instead, I'd always been this other way, like, oh, I shouldn't want to hurt their feelings or this type of thing. You know, exactly.

Speaker 1 But once I was able to change the, and I realized, oh, that's their job. Their job is.

Speaker 2 breakthrough. Yes.

Speaker 1 They're hoping for that because it gives them something to work with. I was operating with this different thing.
Like, oh, everything's supposed to be completely kind of copacetic, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, for sure, man.

Speaker 1 What else did I want to say? That's about it. You have tour.
Well, I could talk to you forever, man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having us on. I really appreciate it.
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 It's so cool. I was so excited about this, man.
I think a couple of years ago, we started kind of DMing each other and stuff. And

Speaker 1 I just like, yeah, thank you so much for all the music that helps us feel, you know. Yeah, man.

Speaker 2 And thank you for fucking everything you do. Like this podcast, like I'm listening every week.
So it's like a. Oh, class, man.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 But it has been really fucking helpful for me in times as well. So I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 You bet, dude. Yeah, I can't even believe we get to do this shit, you know?

Speaker 1 This great shit. This great shit.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sorry, God.

Speaker 1 But no, dude, it's...

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's cool, dude. It's just, it's cool that we get to sit here and talk about this stuff.
And

Speaker 1 yeah, I'm excited for the new tour. So

Speaker 1 you're about to go to Australia, right?

Speaker 2 I go yeah I've just announced the Australia tour we've got a UK tour in September as well and was this stuff that was on the docket you had to cancel it before

Speaker 2 the Australia tour is almost the exact same tour that we cancelled but um so yeah that's that one but the UK is just a fresh one sort of get us tuned up a bit and get us back into the swing of things and then yeah hopefully America next year and do some bits and bobs and I just want to do as much as fucking possible.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm back now and I really want to just dig in a bit and get things fucking, get get things going again. So, um, yeah, man, I'm fucking excited.

Speaker 1 I'm really excited. Well, as fans, we'll be here when you get to us, you know.
So, don't, you know, don't feel like you got to, you know, welcome back.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 Or whatever. I don't know what the fuck am I talking about.
I don't know shit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think everybody's just glad you're feeling good and excited to hear what you do, you know. And whatever you don't do, you're already great, man.
Thank you, man.

Speaker 2 I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Louis Capoldi, man. Thank you, brother.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Theo, man. Honestly, what a pleasure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, cheers. And Margaret.

Speaker 2 Margaret, not Melissa. Melissa.
Sorry, mum, for forgetting that. There you are.

Speaker 1 Godspeed, woman.

Speaker 2 Now I'm just falling on the breeze, and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be

Speaker 2 cornerstone.

Speaker 2 Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind. I found I can feel it in my bones.

Speaker 2 But it's gonna take take

Speaker 2 a little while.