#616 - Retired Boston Detective

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Before we begin, I'd like to say that some of the conversation from today is kind of graphic in nature.

We're talking about police work and detective work and some of its intense.

If those types of conversations are not for you, then please make that choice for yourself.

Thank you.

Today's guest is a retired Boston police officer and detective.

She had over 20 years on the force before she joined the human trafficking unit and fought criminals in that world.

We learned a lot about what it's really like out there, and I want to thank her for her service.

Today's guest is Miss Kara Connolly.

And I will

find a song while I've been sleeping.

Yeah, my hair, I've been losing some hair because of stress.

Yeah, it happens.

Sucks.

Yeah.

You just go in the sink and you got handfuls.

Yeah, you just wake up and it looks like you look back and you're like, oh, a new pillow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's gross.

Your pillow's got sideburns on it or something.

You know, your pillow's using a curling eye.

It's a mess, yeah.

That's way too much.

You've dealt with it?

Yeah.

In the past, yeah.

Yeah.

And was it stress from work?

Yeah, and other things.

But the minoxidil definitely helps because I called my doctor and they're like, oh, she can't see you for nine months.

And I was like, well, my fucking hair's falling out.

And they're like, well, you could see the nurse practitioner in two months.

i was like no so i went to one of those online things and they sent me minoxidil and like three months i had little ball baby hairs sprouting out it came back so it does help yeah yeah yeah that's what i'm realizing i just gotta uh yeah just taking some time just to enjoy do things just that i enjoy that's what i'm that's like my focus right now is just to do things that i enjoy um

because i'll i'll let added stress stay on me as well you know yeah of course that's what i'll do builds up yeah and not realizing that everything's going to be okay you know that's what my my boyfriend say went this and when when I was nervous about today, and he's like, it's all going to be okay.

Yeah.

It really is.

Yeah, everything's going to be okay.

Kara Connolly, thank you so much for joining us.

You are a retired police officer and detective from Boston.

That's correct.

And you were on the forces for 30.

31 years.

31 years.

Yeah.

And you started out in Dorchester, I think.

Yeah, when I graduated the police academy, they send you to a couple different places to tell you you're on probation or whatever.

And I went to a part of the city called Dorchester.

Wait, probation?

They send.

So when you join the police department, you go through the police academy.

And then when you get out, now they do it for a year.

But when I did graduated, it was six months.

And they have you,

you basically, it's a probationary period to see if you're

good enough, behave enough, or do the right thing for like six months.

So they send you to a couple different places, like one busy district, one quiet district.

So they start you like a probationary period somewhere.

Yes.

And you might stay there, they might move you, but that's that's how you're on probation for six months and then you're, you know, a full-time police officer after that.

Okay.

And what were those first years on the force like?

Like in South Boston, was it?

Yeah.

So I was actually born in South Boston.

So I was in Dorchester and I was in South Boston.

South Boston at the time was a quieter district.

Dorchester was very, very busy.

In the 90s, it was like in Boston was a ton of shootings and gang stuff going on.

So comparatively speaking, South Boston was a quieter place to end up for several years.

And what were the demographics of that area like where you were servicing?

Kind of everywhere.

Dorchester is a

different demographic than South Boston population-wise.

Now, South Boston's very hip and like it's all young kids.

But at the time I was there, it was like all just kind of families.

Pretty quiet place at the time compared to other districts where like, you know, a shooting every couple of days.

And is it mostly white, black, Latino, Asian?

Dorchester at the time when I was first there was a lot of black, some white, some Asian.

And South Boston at the time was mostly white, but with some black and Latinos.

Got it.

And who are the people they call Southies?

Because you hear that a lot.

Southies is not a thing.

You could say you're from Southeast, but it's not,

it's not, it's not pluralized.

There's no S on the end of it.

But so I'm from Southeast, but I never said that growing up.

We always said South Boston, but most people said I'm from Southeast.

Okay.

It's just a nickname for the part of town.

Right.

But so you're not like, but do other people call you Southies?

Other Southies?

No, people from like out of the city who hear about it became popular because it was in Goodwill Hunting, was in South Austin.

So that's kind of what put it on the map.

So when people started moving there and didn't know any better, that's how they would say it.

But people who grew up there back in the 70s, 80s or whatever didn't say it like that.

That pub that they, you know, they filmed in became like a big thing, L Street Tavern.

And

that was like around the corner from where I grew up.

And were the people there distrustful of police at the time?

What was the relationship like between?

No, people in Southeast like the cops compared to other parts of the city, yeah I think in my experience I mean it was a quiet place when I worked there most of the stuff that kind of good stuff that happened or whatever crazier calls I've been on happened when I was a detective patrolman was pretty quiet do you remember one of your first like big like calls as a patrolman that was like oh this is real like do you remember that like a first moment where you're like this is pretty real well a lot of the calls it's funny a lot of the calls when um it comes in like you know person with the gun call like I still remember my first person with the gun call I was shit in my pants because I was like oh my god you know and it turned out to be bullshit.

It wasn't even real.

So, a lot of the calls are like that.

You don't know they're fake until you get there.

So, you're like your adrenaline dump in the car and you're like, oh my God, this is real.

And I remember being like, what am I going to do?

Nothing.

It was a big nothing burger.

Were you putting lipstick on or what?

I mean, what are you doing?

No, no, there was no lipstick when I was a patrolman.

No.

Yeah, like, would you like powder up your face a little bit or something?

Oh, no one powdered their face on the way to a call, huh?

That wasn't it.

No, that wasn't a thing.

Yeah, that's just in Charlie's Angels, huh?

Yeah.

What was it like being an officer in the 90s in that time period?

Like, was that way different than you think it is now?

Yes, I think so.

I mean, obviously, the gang, the rate of shootings in Boston was much higher than.

I forget what our highest homicide rate was in the early 90s.

It might have been like 150, 160 people.

Now Boston has like 35 a year.

So it was a big difference.

It's become much safer whether everyone in the gangs kind of aged out and they all went to jail or, you know, got shot or moved on in life, whatever happened, it became much safer I'd say there's no money in being in a gang either I think a lot of people are like oh this is a shitty business you know this says 1990 the homicide peak Boston's homicide count hit an all-time high of 152 cases with much of the violence concentrated among youth and in and involving firearms

The spike was driven by gang violence, crack cocaine epidemic, and easy access to handguns.

Yeah, so the 90s are a little different than now for sure.

Compared to then, how do you feel like police work is different between now and then?

Do you have any thoughts on that?

I don't know.

I mean the whole like community policing aspect started when I was new.

So that's kind of still progressed along.

I think that's that means community policing.

Well, that's what they call it.

At the time, they had walking beats.

So when I got on, you wouldn't be in a cruiser, like you'd walk the neighborhood, kind of like they do in New York City.

They have people walking around.

There's not a lot of cruisers.

And so they would put people in certain parts of the city.

Like when I got on, for example, and I worked in Dorchester, I think there there were like seven or eight walking beats up and down like kind of the main street in the town.

And now, excuse me, there's only a couple and they just put those on again.

So they're kind of trying to get back to that.

So that was very different.

Like people who did the walking beats full time, like knew everyone in the neighborhood.

That was the whole purpose is to get people into the neighborhood so people feel comfortable speaking to the police.

Except the neighborhoods where they put the walking beats were usually the worst neighborhoods and people didn't give a shit.

They didn't want to talk to us.

Oh, it didn't matter anyway.

No, not the parts of the city where they had them.

Now it's it's different um they don't have as many walking beats at all they they push a lot of the social media stuff like the dance the dancing cops is the fucking worst it's so cringy and they the department all the police departments do that they put it out to try to be like look we're accessible oh see it's so so embarrassing i haven't even seen this it's just it's so goddamn cringy are these real cops that's usually the i don't know about them yeah it says they are oh my well at least at least they can dance Like when our department puts it out, it's like she's like, Red Cop's like, oh, we're playing basketball with the kids.

And, you know, let's all do, especially during COVID, it's just, it's so cringy.

They just point out one the other day for female woman police law enforcement day.

And they had like women dancing.

Some of my girlfriends and I sent it back and forth.

Like, this is so who wants to see.

Dude, the last thing I want is my cop dancing over there.

Is that what you're looking for when you call for help?

Someone to show up and start dancing.

Like, you want someone who's going to give you a hand.

Yeah.

It's just, I know they're trying to soften their image.

They don't want to look like paramilitary anymore.

They want to look friendly and not scary and whatever.

Whether it works or not long term, I don't know.

Yeah.

You get promoted to detective in 2005?

Seven, 2007.

Yeah.

Okay.

And what is, what, what does it mean to become a detective?

What does that mean exactly?

So to become a detective, back then you had to take an exam.

So it's like a six-month.

to year-long process.

You have to study for several months and there's like six or seven textbooks you have to read.

So you take the exam and then they do kind of like an oral interview, depending on how you score in the test.

And then they kind of combine your years of training and experience, your test score and your interview to say, okay, these people have then high enough score to get made detective.

So, and then you do like a month's worth of training back at the police academy to, because being a detective versus a patrolman, it's very, very different.

First of all, you don't wear a uniform, which is my favorite part, but it's just a completely different job.

Like you're now responsible.

Cop gets a call, they go to the call, they write a report, and that's the end of it until they have to go to court.

If the report that the cop writes about, it gets assigned to a detective, and now you own that.

Like, so you have to follow through, you have to follow up and go to court or take out criminal charges or whatever.

So, it's a very different job.

Is there a lot of lobbying to become a detective?

Like, whenever you're like

on the force or people like, I want to be detective, and then do people,

is there any way to manipulate things so it betters your chances of becoming a detective?

Or is it not like that?

Not like that.

So everyone, if anyone's a patrolman, doesn't want to be be a patrolman for long.

I was a patrolman for 13 years, which was a long time.

We had, usually they do the detectives exam every two or three years.

And for some reason, we had a seven-year break because I didn't take it.

I just had a child.

And I was like, I'll take the next one a couple of years.

And it was seven years.

So I was a patrolman for a long time.

So people want it.

It was seven years to the next promotion.

Yeah, till the next exam.

Oh.

So it was a long wait.

But people want it just because it's better than being a patrolman.

Some people love being a patrolman and will do that their entire life, but most people either want to take an exam and become a supervisor, like a sergeant, a lieutenant, and keep kind of going up the chain, or people are interested in being a detective.

So it's definitely desirable.

Do you remember an early case as a detective that really kind of stood out to you?

Yeah, I had a good arm robbery.

once.

You know, that sounds like an octave and a good arm robbery.

It's great.

Good arm robbery.

It was on Halloween, which is always one of the worst days of the year to work.

Fourth of July, Halloween sucks.

They're always crazy.

But we had an armed robbery of

a cell phone store in the morning.

It was in the morning.

It was like 9.30 in the morning.

The store just opened up.

And these two dudes went in.

And there was some girl, a young girl, early 20s, working there by herself.

It was in a shitty part of town.

And they literally tied her up with like telephone cord around her wrists and her ankles.

And they stole it.

It was like 800 bucks or $785, whatever it was.

But the feds ended up taking it because it was T-Mobile and they can kind of loop in the

Commerce Act like by saying because commerce was halted with other states, it becomes like a federal case.

But the guys ran off and the girl, it was like something out of a movie.

It was all on video.

She literally hopped over to the phone all tied up with her ankles and they put a gun to her head and everything.

It was two guy firearms and she was terrified.

And they she hopped over to the phone and like knocked it off with her head and was like calling for help.

At least she's in a phone store though.

Like at least,

but she was able to do that.

And then it came in quick.

So a couple of of the guys from work, everyone,

I worked with the best people on earth in Dorchester.

They really were great, great cops.

And they just kind of flood the area right away.

And the description's going out.

And one of the officers, it's actually one of my police academy classmates, ends up seeing these two guys walking down the street.

And a description had been given out to clothing.

They left like a trail of clothing down the street.

They tried to drop everything and change their appearance.

It's hard to run and change at the same time.

Yeah, so they were just kind of, yeah, walking down the street and really nice.

It's actually a little teeny.

It's a nice neighborhood in this bad section of town.

So they kind of stuck out.

But then he sees the trail of clothing, jackets and hats and shit left behind.

So he called it in.

These guys, one of them had on gloves, but the other one had band-aids and tape around his fingers so he wouldn't leave any fingerprints.

And as the guys, everyone went up there, the patrolman were talking to him, he notices them going like they're picking away to try to get the band-aids and tape off their hands.

And then another officer in the area was searching.

She's looking in trash cans and she found the guns.

And then someone found the box, the money box.

So it was,

that was a, that was a pretty good one.

It was an exciting one.

Yeah, it was just, it came together nicely.

Everyone worked, like did so well together.

Everyone, everyone was there at the right time to do the right thing.

And then the feds took it and they had they had serious criminal records, both of them.

One of them had been doing armed robberies all over the city.

It was like the same guy hit like five or six places.

So we were glad to get him.

They got, because it was federal, they got like 20 something years each.

One of their brothers was a truck driver, and he, that's how they got the guns.

He was a cross-country truck driver, and he would be, he bought guns in Arizona and then brought them back here.

What made it federal?

Is that the way they're transporting guns across state lines?

I think they didn't end up prosecuting him because he basically testified against his brother.

But what made it such a big, what made the sentencing so severe?

Because they were,

the way the feds do it in federal court is

They basically add up, it's a point system.

And depending on how many charges or cases, how many times you've been found guilty, then you're considered an armed career criminal.

Um, and you get extra time added on.

Oh, got it.

Um, but yeah, for 785 bucks, they went to jail for like 20-something years each.

It was crazy.

It's idiots.

Yeah.

And pretty much.

That poor girl was terrified.

I always felt bad for her.

Yeah.

Oh, that would be so scary, dude.

I don't know what I would do if someone did something like that, like pulled it.

She didn't even want to identify them.

We were trying to do like a, we do a bring back or show up, you bring because we brought them to say, have her identify them.

And she was like hiding behind the blinds in the store.

We usually they'll have them like go out in the sidewalk and the person will like look through a car window, but she was literally hiding.

She was absolutely terrified.

She's crying and everything.

How important are fingerprints?

Is that a real thing?

How important is that when you were a detective?

Well, that's a real thing because everyone's different.

Yeah.

So if you get found at a scene, whether it's a break-in

or a robbery or something like that, and they find your fingerprints, well,

what other excuse do you have for being there?

So it's, it's a pretty good, especially now people like in court, when cases go to court, they don't want witness identification.

They want, because of all the CSI shows, they think we all have this bags of evidence to show when it comes to court.

So juries want to see forensics.

They want fingerprints.

They want like cell phone records.

They want DNA left behind because of the TV shows makes it look like that's left at every scene.

But these guys covered their fingerprints.

They had masks on, like they put, you know, bandanas around their face.

But the girl identified them from the clothes.

One of them didn't have a mask on.

But so fingerprints are definitely very important.

And what's the process of actually lifting fingerprints?

What is that?

And you hear the term lifting fingerprints.

Different surfaces

use different tools.

Like this surface, the grain of the wood would be no good.

You need like a smooth surface.

Like they train us on like granite.

like countertops.

Oh yeah, granite's nice.

It's very smooth.

It's shiny.

So if someone leaves a fingerprint, you have, whether you have dry or oily hands, you're leaving oil behind.

And you could take your powder and you spin the little powder on like a smooth surface and literally the fingerprint pops.

And then you just take this kind of clear square of like sticky tape and then like press it down and then lift it up so it transfers onto the outline transfers onto.

There you go.

Can there be fingerprints in a place?

Could you look at a counter or something and see nothing and there could actually be fingerprints there?

Yeah, you can kind of if you use a flashlight sometimes you can see it if it's a clean surface if it's like a shithole house or filled like bank robberies, we don't do fingerprints because so many people go up to every teller.

Like, even if a bank robber comes in and puts his hands down,

there's 10,000 other fingerprints there from the people that came before you.

Right.

So they don't, we don't bother with something like that because you have to be able to show it's a suspect.

So they won't like put it into the system to see who it even belongs to.

Could a surface be so dirty that then the print itself actually makes it clean in that, you know what I'm saying?

Yes, on dirty windows, we get those on a break-in when they

push up a window and leave them behind.

And you can literally see them because you can see sometimes they'll smear the dirt.

Sometimes it's so dirty, though,

the dust won't adhere to it.

Got it.

What's the person who picks up the fingerprints?

What do they call that person?

Well, we do it.

Detectives do it.

Detectives do it.

They do it in Boston.

Yeah.

Some and other places like the crime scene tech will come out and other departments, but we do it ourselves.

Unless it's like a major incident, like a homicide, then the homicide unit will call the forensic unit.

And

those are civilians.

They're not police police officers, but they'll have, they have gone to school for that.

So if it's like a major, you know, like I said, a homicide, they'll call in the crime scene tech to do it.

They don't want to mess with us.

And you ever have a day where it's just busy?

You're like, oh, shit, I got to get to my kid's birthday or whatever.

I'm going to fucking just, we'll hope for the best of this when you take off.

Yeah, it sucks.

Like you could be, your shift ends at four o'clock if you work days and at you know 345 someone a person's stabbed all right i won't be home until midnight so oh you say oh so you stay or no stay oh yeah i i was saying like if you ever had a thing where it's like ah, I got to get out of here.

You know, instead of doing the work, instead of dusting for these fingerprints, I'm going to hit the road.

You can't do that.

You can't.

No, it's on you.

It's your case.

If you go, if you're on, on call, we call it catch day in Boston.

But detectives like certain squads have are in charge of all those calls that day.

So, you know, five things could come in.

We could get a shooting, a stabbing, an armed robbery, and, you know, a missing person, and they're all assigned to you.

But it's not that busy, but it can be.

You might have a day like you don't even go pee, you don't even eat lunch.

I mean, it's few and far between, but it definitely happens.

Wow, so you're just cruising like that.

Yeah.

How much you mentioned television a little bit ago.

How much is television and what people think and expect, how much has that affected like the prosecution of cases?

Ruined it, absolutely destroyed it.

Yeah.

If everyone has such high expectations if they watch, you know, CSI Miami or whatever the hell it is and see they solve everything instantly and they have cooperative witnesses or they have all these piles of evidence.

And like I said, people in, because of that, people in regular juries and regular court cases expect, oh, they literally come back with notes saying, why don't you have fingerprints?

Why don't you have DNA?

Like, why don't you have that?

Well, not every case has that.

Like I said, a bank robbery comes in.

They don't touch the condo.

We have no DNA.

We have no fingerprints.

We have no semen either.

There's people on eyewitness identification and videos now everywhere.

Video is huge.

Video is a huge help, but it's definitely the shows have been a detriment to prosecuting cases for sure.

So you think it's made her, that the shows have made it harder to prosecute cases?

Absolutely, because people have higher expectations.

The juries do.

The juries do.

And they're like, oh, there's not enough here.

Yes.

They'll be like,

you don't have anything.

Where is everything?

It's like, well, we have, you know, we've got the video and we've got this and that.

And like, no.

So it's tricky.

Yeah.

It's not been our friend.

It's fascinating.

It's, yeah, it's fascinating because it kind of glorifies the sport of being a detective, but at the same time, ruined it.

Yeah.

That's a lot of things happen like that.

Once things get glorified so much, kind of they get ruined ruined sometimes.

I think that's just almost a general rule of things, it feels like.

Except for God, probably.

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You always hear like the shows The First 48, right?

And my friend Chris DeLia, he's a comedian.

He has this great joke.

He's like, the first 48, and I'm paraphrasing, he's like, the first 48, it's like these detectives have 48 hours to solve the crime, but really they have as much time as they want.

Yeah.

They do.

We do.

You know, sometimes you're waiting on video.

Like, it doesn't, obviously, if you don't have a suspect like right away.

But if you work at it, sometimes the evidence is out there.

You just have to find it.

It might not slap you in the face 10 minutes after the incident.

Right.

But do you really only have 48 hours?

No, we have all the time you need, except

except it gets busy.

And if I have, you know, three cases that day, and if like I got to work on it, and then two days from now, I get another big one that like a shooting or a stabbing or whatever,

now you're, you're, your attention is split.

So time is of the essence because something else is always going to happen.

It's going to happen.

Something's coming.

And whether you have a leisurely amount of time to work on the case, like then you're working overtime, then you're working a double to try to stay and work on this case because another one could come in tomorrow.

So it is

this point to it, like the 40 ads are important, but I think more so because something else is coming.

So it's going to take the attention away.

And then you can only be in so many places at once.

You know what I mean?

You can't, you can't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I never thought about that part of it.

Well, how do you prioritize what cases are most important?

I mean, obviously, like if someone gets shot or stabbed, like that's a violent crime.

And you want that person who it's more defendant-based, like it's the kind of person that's going to do that, you want them off the streets, right?

Right.

And if, you know, compared to, you know, identity fraud, well, that's not an emergency.

That can wait.

You know what I mean?

So those kind of like, because we get a ton of fraud.

check fraud and all that shit, bank fraud is a nightmare because it's a lot of the times it's not even taking place.

We have our victims in our city, but suspects are all over the country or all over the world.

Yeah.

So you can't prosecute them.

Yeah.

So it's, it's hard to chase down.

So those are kind of to the victim, it's a lower priority.

They're the one that had their money stolen or whatever.

Of course.

It's not the same as being shot or stabbed or having a criminal that's out of the room.

Yeah, violent armed robbery or something.

You got to find this guy now because obviously they're in heat for crime.

Yes, exactly.

Wow.

So are there days when you kind of get to the end of your shift almost and you look and you're like, oh my God, there's still that one missing person I didn't reach out about.

Or there's still this one thing.

There's always a pile.

And now I have to go do that.

Yeah.

Oh.

You very rarely get to go home at at the end of your of your shift.

You're always staying.

And

what's that effect like on your home life?

Like, were you able to have kind of a home life?

Like, what was that like for you?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it makes it trickier for sure.

You need help at home.

It definitely makes it more difficult.

And were you able to have a family except you have children?

Yeah.

Nice.

Oh, your daughter's here.

My daughter's here.

Oh, nice.

I forgot.

Yeah.

I didn't forget, but I think I just didn't know if she wanted to say it or not, maybe too.

So, yeah.

So, yeah, how do you manage that?

Was that it's tricky.

It was difficult.

It was not going to lie.

It was, it was hard.

Yeah.

Because you expected to come home.

I get you to help them with some project or you just got to make supper.

And you have to call and be like, I'm not, I'm not going to make it.

Someone got stabbed or I got to stay late.

A lot of times you know, you're going to be like, okay,

those days I know I can stay late because I have coverage with the kids or whatever.

Yeah.

But it's, it's, it's not easy.

But at least you had a good excuse.

Yeah.

I mean, I wasn't out, you know, getting my nails done or getting shit faced, but.

Yeah, I'm getting my nails done or I'm getting, yeah.

I'm working.

Yeah.

At least it wasn't like, yeah, I'm drinking or something or Eouglis is on third base.

I can't, you know, I'm still

not going to be home on time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you start to see where family life suffers?

Do you see it like, you know, because that's also a common theme in a lot of like

police serial programming and films and stuff where the detective is working late and then there's the family thing starts to suffer, you know?

I mean, I'm sure it did.

But like I said, you've, you've kind of figured out you make it work you can like i was a detective in a busy part of the city and that's why i transferred to the human trafficking unit because that was like a monday through friday job not a rotating schedule because i worked holidays we worked every christmas you got a holiday off every six years so every but you'd get all the holidays off that year so that year you're getting you know excuse me you're getting easter excuse me please thanksgiving christmas new year's you'll get all the biggies off but then it's six more years until you get another one wow so um i went to human trafficking.

Drinks and water real quick.

You don't mind.

You're good.

Horrific.

Sorry, Miss.

And you are a detective.

You are, I don't want to tell you what to do anything.

Thank you for your service.

That's what I'm saying.

So it's six.

Wow.

I just, that's wild.

Yeah.

So that time you get to spend with your family, it's really crucial.

Yeah, especially holidays, you know.

But if you're working different shifts, if you're working the midnight shift, you can kind of go home and sleep for a couple hours and then

meet everybody at Thanksgiving.

So that's how Boston worked.

Obviously, different cities do different things.

We just had six squads rotating rotating days off.

But some units, like the human trafficking unit, is Monday through Friday.

So it's a little more normal if you have young kids or a family and you want be in a regular person, as I call it, and have Saturday and Sunday off like everybody else.

Those units are better for something like that.

Got it.

And I know you ended up in that unit.

I want to talk to you about that in just a second.

Take me through a couple more detective calls that were interesting to you or that really stood out.

I'd say I always, my joke was always going to be that I was going to write a book, and the name of it was going to be Dick on the Sidewalk and other stories from the street.

The last few years I was a detective, I got like three of the craziest cases of my life

after year 31.

We had some guy cut off his own dick and threw it on the sidewalk.

Oh, for what?

Because he was crazy.

He was mentally ill, but we don't know any of this.

So the call came in.

In the morning, I was on the way in.

It was early in the morning.

It was cold out.

I remember that.

Oh, yeah.

I have the radio on, and I hit the dispatcher, call a car, and then start to laugh.

And then she says, disregard.

We don't know what's happened.

So I'm driving to the station.

And then a call comes in again, sending a different car, because it was like the midnight shift ending, sending a different car.

Hey, can you go to this location?

Someone said there's some mail and a piece of mail anatomy on the sidewalk.

And we were all laughing.

We thought it was.

We just thought it was a dildo.

We thought it was a joke.

That's why the dispatcher was laughing.

You just thought it was like a WNBA game or whatever.

It wasn't green.

Call comes in like 10 minutes later.

and my detective that I was working at the time looked it up on the computer to see the text of the call.

Like, what does this actually say?

And then we saw that the caller was from a nearby health center.

And it said, there's, you know, it look appears to be a penis on the ground.

There's blood everywhere.

We're like, oh, shit, that's, that's not fake.

So the patrolman.

The patrolmen go up there.

And so that's our starting point.

We don't know anything else.

And literally, there it is.

I wasn't there yet.

The patrolman see it on the sidewalk and there's a blood trail.

So they start following the blood trail, and it went, it went a long way, several hundred yards, and it gets worse and worse.

So that's how it starts.

So that's our starting point.

And the patrolman follow the blood trail.

And then they're following it up the stairs of this three-family house.

It's like three apartments in one house.

And the blood gets bigger and bigger.

They knock on the door.

This guy opens the door, completely naked, a hole where his dick used to be.

And he's just standing there, not talking.

And they're like, hey, buddy, you okay?

Like, and he's just like, he doesn't speak.

He just stares at them.

So that they're new, they were newer guys.

I felt so bad for them.

That's a tough call.

They weren't brand new, obviously, but that's a lot for

young guys to see this, right?

Oh, yeah.

Just see some cocked downstairs.

They're like, hey, why don't you, why don't you come in and sit down?

So they, and turns out it was like a group home for mentally ill people, but there's no staff members or anything there.

So there's three people in the house.

It is a bloodbath.

There's blood everywhere in the bedroom, the floor, the sink was full of it.

So they find that and they get on the radio and they're like, get us an ambulance, whatever, because we don't know how to someone alive, right?

So

he's alive.

So

I got called and me and another detective, my boss went down and it's on the sidewalk and they're taking photographs or whatever.

And they call once the ambulance finds out he's alive.

They just assume somebody had bled out somewhere and was dead or someone did it to somebody else.

He's like, no, I did it.

Like, oh shit.

Okay.

So he's being honest.

Yeah, but he's just completely and utterly mentally at some other point.

He'd like cut off his own nipples.

He's like, to let the devil out.

So the poor thing was very mentally ill.

He was young, early 20s.

So

once the EMTs find out this person's alive, now they want to try to collect it to see if they can reattach it in the hospital.

So we had done our photos.

I actually have a video of this whole thing.

I pulled video from the street nearby surveillance video.

That's how I know kind of everything after the fact.

They come down to reattach it and we had just done the photos.

I didn't look directly at it.

I can do

stare into it.

You do like a weird blurring.

It's almost like when someone blurs out somebody's face, and

that's what your brain does.

You're like,

I don't want to see that.

I want to see all of it.

It was, it was big.

It was nasty.

So they try to come down to take it off the sidewalk.

He goes to pick it up.

And what are they using a spatula or whatever?

No, he had gloves on.

He's using his hand.

And he had this weird

clear cylinder.

He was an EMT.

He had this like cylinder thing.

He was going to put it on.

Like one of those banks.

Remember at the bank, you would put that check in the thing and send it back up there through the bank?

Literally, like that.

So

he goes to pick it up, and it's been so cold.

He's tugging it, and it was frozen to the sidewalk.

No way.

Like that guy from Christmas Story.

Bring that up.

Look, like it's tongue.

That's what happened to the poor guy.

Bring that up real quick because people forget that that can happen.

Oh, yeah.

Oh.

And let's get just to give us a

descriptive visual.

What kind of wiener are we talking about?

And if you're wiener, zoo, I don't know if it's still, what kind of

wiener side, like, because that's just a sidewalk wiener.

What kind of wiener are we talking about?

It's big.

It was.

It was big and it looked purple.

Ooh.

Yeah.

It was, it was a black guy and it almost looked purple.

But he went to tug it.

And because it froze, he gave it a second tug.

And then he didn't let go of it.

It went in the air.

And this thing came out.

I don't know if it was his rethro.

I don't know what the fuck it was.

I compared it later to like a balloon streamer.

It came like flying out the end.

Oh, that's some party fatty baby.

I turned and dry-heaved into the street.

I've never thrown up at the job, I've never done it.

I dry-heaved into the street, and I was like, What the fuck?

And some young patrolman who was there, and this is all on video, he's in his uniform and he does this little kicky, uncomfortable dance because he's like, Oh my god, that was horrific!

Oh, he couldn't handle it like that, no, exactly.

And then later, I pulled the video from the street.

We're like, How did this get there?

How did this guy get back to the house?

He had cut it off several hours before in the house, walked down the street and he's completely naked.

Nobody called police.

This is the best part.

This people go into work.

It's like three or four in the morning, busy, busy street, driving down the street.

He's completely naked, what no one called 911.

And he's walking down the street and I have a video of it.

He leans, he'd cut it, but it wasn't off altogether.

Oh, so he leans down.

Wow, bro, that's that, whoa, tugs it

and then threw it on the sidewalk.

No.

Oh!

So he tell me that part again.

He what?

So I'm watching this video.

He leans.

Tell me that part again.

So I'm watching the video and try to find him.

Like, what time did this happen?

And you just see this form.

It's dark.

And he's completely naked, walking down the street.

And all of a sudden, he leans over.

I'm like, what's he doing?

And he's in the direction.

It's kind of from the side, direction of his crotch.

You see his heart move like a tug.

And then he just fucking threw it.

And I, I remember when I pulled the video, I didn't know this had happened.

I watched it and I...

pushed my chair back from the desk and screamed.

I was like, what the fuck?

The worst part is he came.

So if you could believe something's worse, he came back about a half an hour later.

He walked like a mile.

They said that's what saved him.

Why he didn't bleed to death.

It was so cold, it coagulated the blood.

So he didn't bleed to death.

He came back and he's walking down the street.

And as he sees it, he walks over to it and gets down on all fours and leaned over and kissed it.

And then got up and walked away.

I thought he was going to eat it like a dog bone, honest to God.

I was like, what is happening?

What is happening?

He bent down, gave it a smooch, and got up and walked home oh god it was fucking crazy oh my god the poor bastard let me tell because i got to go through a couple beats of that story and dear god let me just say that out loud so god knows that we're just alarmed by this yeah um first of all the fact that he cut it and it was just hanging there he didn't do the job just like a piece of memphis mistletoe just hanging there that's so wild yeah it was nuts like mistletoe at a ditty party or something

and then he tugged it off i can't even imagine

Because you've ever had like a little hangnail when you pull it off.

Kills.

And this is like a lot of nerve-ending.

Oh, that's the ultimate hangnail.

That's the most hangiest nail.

That should be the name of my chapter, not dick on the sidewalk.

The ultimate hangnail.

That's the most hangiest nail that there is.

When you said that, it got so visceral.

I think for me, I'm sure for anybody listening.

Most men get the same reaction when you tell them.

And then I wonder what flew out of it.

Pull that up on perplexity.

Because I'm thinking that's just a little bit.

You know what it looked like in the photo?

And in when i saw it come out you know what like sausage casing looks like before there's a sausage in it it's almost like skinny um opaque kind of almost um i don't know how else to describe it it's it's like kind of gray and translucent it was like a little smaller than my pinky and this thing just flew out i just could not even i

yeah that's just a little wiener fun fetti homie let's look at uh no give me a gander at it man i'm trying to gain i'm trying to get a gander yeah let's look at the but let's look at the parts here because it's it's it's fascinating to know what is that Yeah, I don't know what I don't know what the fuck it was.

That's a vagina.

Oh, no, that's a wiener.

Sorry.

Come on.

These days you can't tell.

The other day, my buddy showed me a picture of his naked wife.

She has a wiener.

And I was like, all right, well, that's a surprise.

Yeah, maybe it's the urethra.

Yes, because see, the urethral opening goes down to the end.

That's what it was.

God, boy.

Yeah, it was dicey.

It was a dicey.

And I remember when we got the call, and I remember standing over it.

Thinking, like, where did I go wrong in my fucking life that it's 7.45 in the morning and I'm looking at someone's dick on the goddamn sidewalk.

You know, I was like, What did I do?

What did I do to deserve this?

It's a question as old as time.

You know, it really is.

Poor bastard.

I think a lot of women have asked themselves things like that overall.

And in hindsight, how does that even follow up?

Do you guys keep that in evidence?

Well, no, they tried to reattach it at the hospital.

So they rushed him to the hospital with it and they did attach it, but it didn't take.

It was like a month later.

They had to like take it off.

Yeah.

imagine that month.

Oh my god, so it's funny because of the group home.

We were trying to find out what is this kid's story, what's his name?

Because the other kid in the house was not with it at all, couldn't even, he was just sitting there playing video games.

It's like a bloodbath.

So we're like, it's hard to get the kids off the games, right?

So, but these guys, they're like 20.

So I call the

supervisor of the group home, and I was trying to get some information.

He's like, oh, him, we're trying to find him an in-house, in

a placement in a hospital or a psych ward because he's, you know, know, he's been exposing his peanuts in group classes or whatever, in group meetings.

And I said, well, you're late.

You're a little late because he cut it off and threw it on the side with the guy.

He's like, what?

Like, you could tell he shit himself because that's his house.

Someone's supposed to be supervising.

Yes, obviously, somebody's supposed to be there.

Someone failed.

Making sure at the very least someone's not lopping off throwing wiener.

And I just can't, but I can't even imagine the month wait to know if it's going to take or not.

You know, I don't think he cared.

But still, just as I think.

He was obviously crazy.

I know that's not the technical.

But you don't think he cared why?

I mean, he cut off to begin with.

He said he was letting the devil out.

Like, he's just extremely mentally ill.

And I don't think he even.

Kind of.

I mean, I think there's a part of a lot of people that think the devil lives inside of their genitality for some people.

Yeah, and like I said, he cut his nipples off.

He like carved something in his forehead.

Like, this poor kid was really messed up.

It's heartbreaking that people go through so much.

And I just.

But I can't imagine that month where you're waiting to see, right?

Like the bandages on.

He's doing it.

Like, how do you

sit there and saw it all?

And he did it.

Did he use a saw now?

Let's ask him.

No, it's just a big long kitchen knife.

What you know is it was dull as dishwater.

It was in some shitty group home.

Like it's not some nice Henkels knife.

You know what I mean?

I'm sure.

Well, it's not like Hanzo scissors.

It was like some plastic handled shitty kitchen knife.

It was like this long.

You got to see the knife?

Yeah.

We were up in the apartment.

Was it a basic knife you get like if just if you made your kids dinner, you give them a knife or you're no, not a steak knife, like a little bit longer.

Like it would come in your knife block for like car.

Serrated or whatever?

I don't remember that.

God, I don't think it was serrated.

I hope it was, otherwise,

serrated might be more jagged, but yeah, I think you would get it done pretty quicker.

I don't know if we can.

I mean, the more we talk about it.

God only knows how long he was working at it because the bed, the whole bedroom.

So, the kid I was working with, thank God, he had been in the crime scene unit.

So, he would go into scenes all the time.

Like, he, we, he put on Tyvek's suit to go in because there's so much blood.

Oh,

we go stepping through it.

Oh, the wiener holds a lot, baby.

That's the Lord's spigot.

The Lord Lord have lots that day.

God, boy,

definitely.

God.

And who was the other kid?

Just some honky sitting there playing double dragon or something?

He's sitting there.

It was like a grown man with his legs crossed.

So, you know, that's weird, the crisscross applesauce scene.

Yeah.

And he's sitting there like trying to, we were talking, like, hey, do you know what happened?

He's just like trying to look past us because we're in the way of his game.

Played a game.

All right, this guy ain't.

What game was it?

Do you remember it?

I don't know.

I was concentrating on other shit.

Wow.

Yeah.

He's literally just trying to look around us.

I bet it was one player.

They didn't have a lot of two-player games at that time.

Wow.

Oh, my God.

But the worst, imagine you just,

you're waiting.

They wrap your wiener.

They do the repackaging.

And I bet at that point, it's almost like the mass singer.

You're just waiting.

They take it off and you're seeing like, okay, is this, what do we have here?

Does this work?

Yeah.

What's the result?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do we have a Shaquille O'Neal here?

Do we have a Muggsy Bogues here?

You know, I think you're just waiting to see what you're going to end up with.

Oh, that must have been horrible.

The big reveal, you know, and they're like, move that bus.

and then the bus takes off and your wing and your and your cock doesn't work dude that's the freaking worst god

i hate that that was uh that was i hate that

oh that's harrowing yeah that was one that's harrowing and it's cold out was it so cold outside was it hard to stand outside was it that cold uh

we weren't outside that long once we took the photos and when the EMT came down and collected it, there wasn't else much to do at that scene.

So then we went up to the house and it wasn't cold in there.

We were outside for maybe an hour, 45 minutes.

I don't even remember.

Because it wasn't like 20 below.

Right.

But it was chilly, right?

Yeah, it was cold.

But the part for me, I think that would be the wildest is say you are,

you know, you're so cold, you run out there, you're looking at the cock, and then it gets too cold.

You got to run back into your car.

No, there was no running back and to get it.

You're like texting, like, all right, let's meet out there again in 30 seconds.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you're having to battle the cold so much.

No, not at that case.

You're like, oh, yes, yes.

yeah it's a black cock and you have to go sit back in your car like that's the part that we get you know having to build up the just to warm stay warm out there oh god that's insane yeah it was fucking crazy and it is and that's the kind of shit it's like you know you're sitting there and then you're watching your kiddo blow some birthday candles or something you go from that to something else oh that was a day

we went out for drinks after work that day oh yeah you're like we're going up tonight yeah up a black and tan huh that's what i'm saying dude I love some Johnny walk out with a

there was another story to pivot.

I know that you had mentioned whenever

our producer Nick had reached out to you.

And thank you so much for coming.

Of course.

I want to say thank you so much.

You look lovely today, too.

It's a really great outfit.

Who chose that?

You did?

I did.

Yeah.

You did a great job.

Thank you.

There was a story you talked about finding

someone had left a child.

Someone

put a baby in a a trash can.

And I preface this right away by saying the baby lived, the baby was fine.

Okay.

But that call came in for a patrolman.

There was like a senior housing on our district.

And there was a gentleman who lived there, an elderly man, and he had someone who used to come and clean his house for him.

And he called 911 because he said someone just had a baby in his house and then left with it.

in a bag and it was crying.

So the patrolman goes to the call and he goes up and talks to him.

The apartment is pristine.

There's no sign of a baby being born.

He said she was in the bathroom.

He's like, it's

no, nothing happened.

Nobody had a baby anymore.

So he called,

the officer called an ambulance for a psyche valve, saying, is this guy, the old man, something's wrong, or maybe he has dementia.

I just wanted to check on and make sure he's okay.

So as the ambulance is pulling up.

Again, I have this on video.

That's how I remember the sequence.

The ambulance pulls up and pulls in.

There was like a horseshoe driveway and they pull in the driveway and just as they're doing that a girl is walking down the street maybe 50 60 feet away maybe a little more from the apartment and it's a very busy street in Dorchester it's Dorchester Ave and she's walking down the street and there's a

wrought iron trash can in the street and she walks by and she hears something.

She thought it was like someone put puppies or something in the trash.

She hears something crying.

She sees the ambulance, goes running over and waves them down and says, I think there's a baby or something in the trash can.

Wow.

So the EMT comes walking down the street.

You could tell he thinks she's full of shit by the way he's walking.

There's no urgency.

Everybody in this neighborhood is full of shit.

There's no urgency to his gate.

He's just like, okay, because they get inundated with calls.

They are buried all day long.

He's like, all right, we're here for this.

But

he goes walking over.

He goes in.

The typical haunted trash can in Dorchester.

He goes in and you can see his reaction.

He picks it out and then it's crazy activity.

He puts it on the, you could see, this was all in the video, but you can't see exactly.

You could see insane movement.

All of a sudden, he's on the air.

And at the same time, the officer was up in the house said, like, what's the ETA in my ambulance?

He never showed up.

And at the same time, the girl had called 911 and said, there's a baby crying in a trash can.

So this like is all kind of happening at once.

So then we all go flying up there when they're like, yeah, there's a baby.

We don't have a mother.

We don't know what's going on.

The woman,

I spoke to the gentleman in the house.

He said it was his cleaning woman.

He had a different name for her that wasn't her real name because we're trying to track her down.

Like, is she bleeding out somewhere?

Is she hurt?

Does she need help?

It's like, what is the story?

She just had a child, maybe.

So he said she was in the bathroom for a couple hours.

He thought she had stomach problems.

And then she asked him, do you have a pair of scissors?

And then she asked him for a bag.

And then, because I interviewed him, me and my partner, and he walks, he said she walked out of the bathroom and she had like a big tote bag with her, like her purse.

And the baby was in the bag, and he could hear her crying.

He's like, What's that?

Is that a baby crying?

She's like, Oh, this is nothing.

Yeah, I just walked out the door

or whatever.

So that's crazy.

Then on the video, you can see her walking down the street, and there's people coming toward her.

And there's a gentleman passing her just as she gets to the trash can.

She waits for him.

And as he goes past, she looks around and pulls it out and goes right in the trash can.

So turns out she had gone in there, had the baby.

She was in her 30s.

She wasn't a kid.

It's like she, she, and she wasn't not mentally ill.

She just didn't plan on keeping the baby.

She had the baby.

How alone, I do not know.

And then cleaned the bathroom.

That's why it was so pristine.

When people think of women, like that's the power of, I mean, women, it's just like.

How she did that, I do not know.

She sat in the tub and had a baby with no help.

Women are powerful, man.

And then to clean up the bathroom.

Cleaned up.

But she also is a cleaning lady.

I can understand, you know.

That's why it was so nice.

Yeah.

But also she, I guess, has to hide her, right?

I guess so.

Yeah.

Did you determine that she's mentally unwell?

What do you determine?

That's so hard for you.

She just didn't want the baby.

But we don't know any of this at the time.

So all we have is a phone number.

She signed in on like the log at the senior housing and

she put a phone number down.

And one of the patrolmen working at the scenes, they blocked off the street.

There were like helicopters overhead.

This was like news.

It was on the news.

And one of the officers who was blocking the street, the traffic, we all get the phone number number and he starts looking through reports because he's sitting there blocking the street.

He starts looking through reports because we don't have the right name.

That guy gave us the wrong name, like the wrong age.

He said she's a girl.

She was in her 30s.

So him, she was a girl because he's in his 80s.

You're a pervert, too.

He said she's a good-looking girl.

So maybe you're right.

The officer, the patrolman starts looking through reports and finds a phone number attached to a different name.

So then we start looking for, and we find the driver's lights.

Like, this, again, all took like over an hour because there's there's a lot going on and headquarters is calling and everybody's like, this is huge, you know?

So this kid finds the kid's real woman's real name and phone number and they start pinging the phone.

So it turned out after she put the baby in the can, walked down the street and got on the trolley, took the tea back to.

like to Matapan, the train station, and then got on a train or a bus and went to her house in Milton.

So we knew what her address was while she's in transit.

We're following, they're following the ping and she's like moving through the city.

And then my supervisor and a couple of detectives, at least one, met her at the house with an ambulance.

So like this lady, we don't know what's going on with her.

So they met her at the house and said like, hey, you got to go to the hospital.

Are you okay?

Like, what's going on?

They went in the house.

She had like rented a small in-law or something in the house.

They said there were no baby items.

It was full-term baby.

There was no crib.

There was no diapers.

It was nothing.

So it was, she did not plan on keeping.

this baby.

She had no intentions of doing that.

Obviously, she didn't have a single thing in the house.

But they took her to the the hospital.

She was fine.

They kept her in the hospital for a few days.

But I mean, she, she literally tied the bag in a knot.

Like, she tried to kill the baby.

Oh,

and that girl walking by was saved it because it was cold that day.

She saved that.

She saved that baby.

That's unbelievable.

It might have never been found.

Like, the city comes and dumps those trash cans.

That baby's gone.

The odds that the girl have any walking by and hear it.

Yeah.

And do they repartner that child and that mother?

Well, I think she tried to kill it.

So I don't know.

The homicide unit came and took the case.

Why, I don't know, because

the baby lived, but it's obviously a biggie.

So they ended up taking it.

It took four, like four years to go through court.

It was during COVID.

I remember people wearing masks when it was on the news.

But it took like four years to wind its way through court.

No jail time.

I'm like, that's attempted murder.

She tried to kill that baby.

There's nothing wrong with her.

She wasn't a scared 16-year-old.

You know what I mean?

She was just, her defense attorney tried to say that it was cultural.

And I'm like, do people throw babies in trash cans in her culture?

What the fuck?

She's not black or Asian, Mexican.

She was, she was Haitian.

She's from Haiti.

Hmm.

Like, that's not cultural.

Oh, shit, there she is.

Mother allegedly abandoned newborn and trash bin and George has charged with attempted murder.

Yep, that's her.

She didn't serve any time.

No.

She got probation.

Yeah, none of we weren't very happy with that.

Well, yeah, because you're just like the psychology of that person that's out in the world.

how could they value life?

Yeah, she doesn't.

At least not that life.

Yeah, and how could you probably value one of the most precious lives?

Unless maybe there was some, I wonder if there was an extreme circumstance of how she had that child.

We weren't told.

We were in communication with the DA.

Like they never told us other than it being cultural.

We're like, what the fuck cultural is that?

That's not a culture anywhere.

Yeah.

Well, the media makes it likes to make it easy.

Yeah.

But I think it took so long because court cases were just dragging on because, you know, nobody worked during COVID except us or whatever.

um it didn't it's like everyone just gets tired of it and wants to to go away i don't know crazy

yeah i mean i mean stuff like that's harrowing you know i i don't know how you can i don't think there's a way to shed that skin if you're a police officer or a detective even though it may seem superficial like in some ways you just move on and finish your day there's got to be a part of you inside of you that stores a lot of that uncomfort and like

sure i mean illness it's got to be you kind of, I'd say, you learn how to deal with it.

I dealt with things better years on my job than I did when I was new.

You know, stuff that used to upset me.

You have to.

It's your brain safety mechanism to, so you don't lose your goddamn mind.

You know what I mean?

You learn how to, that's why cops laugh at murder scenes.

Like it's, it's, it's, it's tension release.

We're not laughing at a murder scene.

Like people are trying to talk and say, okay,

everything's normal here.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, when Brad White was in your brain's on the street and you're like, so, you know, what are you going to get for lunch later?

Like, we, we have to do something to distract distract your brain and you get better at it yeah that's uh this this officer that we had in um who came in was talking about he worked in los angeles and he talked about this one story where he had a mother had called her son was going to commit suicide she was worried and

and he gets there and the mother comes out to greet him tell him what's going on My son's inside.

While they're outside talking, the son kind of steps into the doorway behind a screen door kind of and takes his own life with a shotgun.

Oh, shit.

Shotgun's messy, man.

So then there's now he's standing out here with the mother.

So he has to console the mother at the same time and now go approach this situation.

Right.

So you, you have to do many, like you're like, oh shit, I just saw someone blow their head off with the shotgun.

And the mother's screaming and on the ground, I'm sure.

But yet it's still like not a crime scene.

But it's an active situation.

It's an active scene.

You have to lock it down.

And there's a lot, there's a lot.

They're chaotic, you know, and if you're, especially if you're alone, it's only one of the two and there's a lot going on.

They're very chaotic.

Yeah,

I can't even imagine how things go from seeming real and normal to absolutely surreal.

Like in a moment, almost like you're in a movie or a video game.

I remember he said he walked into the, he had to push, the door wouldn't open all the way because the body was.

The body was too heavy.

Yeah, you have to push him out of the way.

So he's pushing this, and then he steps inside, and part of the brain matter had hit the ceiling and it fell down the back of his shirt.

Oh, I think this is a Vegas guy.

This was the Vegas sergeant.

I think I saw that on your podcast.

Well, I think Brad, he may have done, he may have been in Vegas for a bit.

He may have been in LA.

I believe, okay.

But, um, but he, but just gross.

Like, I've stepped in that.

Like, how do you, like you said, how do you really?

Oh, no, it wasn't him.

That was Chris Curtis.

Yeah.

Um, this other guy was Brad White, but just fascinating, fascinating story.

But just here, like, I don't think nobody else goes to work and has this horror movie that can happen once once in a while.

Please, CMT's fire.

That's kind of it.

Yeah.

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Thank you.

How much does the DA, you mentioned having a DA.

What is that like?

Do police work better under certain mayoral and district attorney

leadership.

Yeah.

They do.

What's that whole relationship like?

Like, break it down for me what that's like.

Well, it, you know, obviously things are very politically charged right now, more so than they've been in the past, I think, in my experience.

So it depends on if your mayor is supportive or not.

Historically, I mean, I had several mayors on in 31 years as a police officer, and some are more supportive than others.

And some DAs get elected that are just like, oh, we're not going to make vandalism is no longer a crime.

Larceny is no longer a crime.

Shoplifting is no longer a crime.

Well, the people in the stores are still calling us when someone's stealing $10,000 worth of shit, but the DA is like not prosecuting.

So now that's why shit's locked up in all these stores.

It's the DAs who are like, you know, whether it's the Soros DAs or whoever the fuck they are that got elected that are softer on crime or whatever.

That's your job as a district attorney to prosecute.

crimes.

And those are state laws on the books.

So if those laws are still on the books, then why aren't you prosecuting it?

So that's why shit is locked up in CVS, because people can indiscriminately steal all over the country.

They're not getting prosecuted.

We had one guy.

It was him and his brother doing it.

They were like two-man wrecking team.

Every CVS in Walmart, Walgreens, we added up just like one kid in one month.

It was like $30,000 worth of shit he stole.

Now, how is Target or CVS recouping that?

They're not.

That's gone.

But the DA zone doesn't care.

So if you have a, like right now, there's a, there's, you know, there's a good DA in Boston, I think, and he's doing more

to make, you know, working with the officers as a team.

Like, we're on the same team here.

We're just trying to prosecute criminals and help victims.

And if, you know, the DA is not supportive of that, like, what about all those victims whose houses are getting broken into or their property's vandalized?

Yeah.

And the DA is like, yeah, we're not going to prosecute that crime anymore.

Well, what about the people whose shit's getting stolen and ruined or whatever?

Like, don't you care about them?

Right.

And don't you care about how they feel then about their city and about their country?

And then you guys are the ones that have to deal with it on the street level.

No, everyone hates us.

They take it out on you but but still if someone hates them yeah they take it out on the police you know i'm saying it's like yes and you guys kind of can't probably speak up on it sometimes because you're in a position where you're working under that regime yeah um

yeah i think about that about the border too sometimes with like you know people illegally coming across the border and then people can have whatever thoughts they want about people coming over right i think everybody needs to be legally documented that's here however they figure that out but you know but the people that that matter most that they're whose opinion matters most to me are the people who live right.

What about the guy right there?

The buy in the border town.

Who's trying to put his kids to sleep at night and they want to be able to feel safe that just

because they bought a house somewhere,

that there's not people running through their neighborhoods, whether those people have good intentions or bad, but just with the fear.

It's not happened.

The fear that it puts in their families.

It's all quality of life stuff.

It's all quality of life issues.

And they don't seem to get that because it doesn't bother them if they're living in some multi-million dollar house somewhere or a nicer part of the city or state.

It's not happening around them.

Like you said, the people in the border towns, they don't have a choice.

Yeah,

especially

if you, if the, what about the

guy who's worked at CVS for 20 years and he loves it, right?

And he loves seeing people come in and he loves like that's something he knows some of the older people.

He's watched them get older and come in and get their medicine.

He's watched one of them lose their spouse over the years and now they come in alone.

But he's like a smile in their life once in a while when they come in.

And now he has to be a deterrent to crime.

Like they come in with trash bags.

Yeah.

Oh, it's unbelievable.

They literally just clear the shelf.

They go and still sell all their stolen shit at like the smaller bodegas and convenience stores.

So they still, when they steal all the detergent and, you know, all that, they steal and baby formula.

That's been locked up for years.

They go and sell it someplace else.

And they're just like, the bodegas is buying it off them.

They know it's stolen shit.

So they're a fault too.

Yeah.

But like, like I said, the employee, what about him?

Like, he doesn't want to do that when he goes to work.

No.

And then he has to.

He's not a cop.

He doesn't want to do that.

He's not a cop.

Yeah.

He doesn't want to chase people.

Yeah.

That's the thing.

They've made it so that almost every person has to feel like a cop and then also that every per that there's not a lot of support out there.

Who, and that's a sick thing.

And our government does that from the top down.

And I believe that they, there is a reason they do that.

They want to erode

a sense of community and they want to erode a sense of normalcy.

And they're doing it.

Yeah.

You know, who's the mayor that they have now over there that's been supportive, do you feel like, Kara?

We haven't had a supportive mayor.

That's the DA, Kevin Hayden.

He's supportive.

Our mayor, I guess.

Hey, hey, boy, out of Newton, huh?

What's Newton like?

Is it good over there?

Uh, Newton's a very, very nice city outside.

It's not, it's a different city than Boston.

Down in Newton over there.

I definitely caught some of it.

Newton's high end.

Newton is?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Newton.

Big money to live in Newton.

Big Newton, they call it.

It was big money to live there.

Oh, God, look at that.

A bunch of people probably.

Yeah, he's from there.

I think he lives in the the city now.

He's Suffolk County.

He's not attached to the city.

He's Suffolk County.

But our prior DA was atrocious.

I bet every kid over there has a sign Tom Brady football law.

That's that kind of thing.

Well, he lived in Chestnut Hill, which is part of Brookline and Newton.

It's like all sandwiched right in that neighborhood there.

He lived in Chestnut Hill.

Yeah, I bet all those kids have that, dude.

Yeah, how has the DA support been over the years?

So this is a district attorney now?

Yeah, he's good.

Was he during your term?

He was there when I retired.

Yeah.

He was appointed by Charlie Baker, preceded by Rachel Rollins.

Yeah, thumbs down on her.

Oh, she was another district attorney?

Yeah.

And now, so she.

She became a U.S.

attorney under Biden, and then she was,

I believe, fired from U.S.

attorney with some ethics violation or some such.

Oh, Biden wouldn't hire anybody.

He was asleep.

He fucking dude.

He was fucking, yeah, dude.

Hire Fred Flintstone.

Someone on the street

thought she was a good fit.

Oh, I'm sorry.

She resigned before

she was canned.

Rich Wallins was not formally fired, but resigned from her position in May 2023 following multiple ethics investigations.

And yeah, and I don't know exactly what happened here, but what's it like from one DA to it?

Like, how can it be?

Well, she's the one that decided when we weren't going to prosecute larcenies, shoplifting, vandalism, the minor crimes.

And she used to say those aren't right.

Those aren't.

I forgot what verbiage was used.

It was like they're not

victimless crime, but they're trying to say that.

No, they're not.

Even if it's CVS or Target, a big corporation, they're still losing millions of dollars.

It was her.

She was one of the ones that was not supportive.

And do you think it's a DA in that space?

Do you think she's making her own choices?

Or do you think that's coming down from a higher, do you allegedly, do you think it's coming down?

Because it just seems crazy to say we're not going to prosecute crime.

How do you do that?

It's fucking.

It's a state law.

How do you decide what you're doing?

During her campaign, Rollins pledged to decriminalize certain offenses such as shoplifting, drug possession,

wanton.

Oh, wanton or malicious possession.

Wanted malicious, yeah.

Or property drug possession intend to distribute.

What?

Yeah, it's crazy.

That's why Mass and Cast.

You've heard of the part of Boston.

I don't know if you've heard of the part of Boston called Mass and Cast.

It is a disaster down there.

There's drug addicts everywhere.

They're all over the streets.

They're destroying property.

There's needles all over the city in South End and that area.

It's kind of, it was, it was focused there.

And now they've tried to kind of break it up the last few years because it was insane.

And they now they've pushed it out yeah there was 10 cities down there look at this shit yeah and look and some people say this is just a building they have safe shoot-up zones there they're letting them shoot up heroin to per se in safe places oh yeah so now the needles are all over the south end and the poor people in the south end they pay a lot of money to live there these are beautiful brownstones and now there's people shitting in their front yards throwing needles everywhere breaking it say one guy was breaking into house while people was under construction second floor this was just a few weeks ago.

And there's a guy's family there with his kids, and they had like an old key or something.

And they were breaking in and going to like shit in the floor on the second floor that was under construction.

He went up and there's like a pile of human shit in his house.

He's like, what is going on?

They put up cameras.

A guy was going in and out every night to like sleep on the floor in his house under construction and then shit on the floor.

It's like the emoji or whatever.

Yeah, like, what is wrong with you?

What?

So that part of the city, I felt bad for people who live down there.

Oh, that's Atkinson Street.

Yeah.

Where is is it?

It's Atkinson Street.

It's near the jail.

Yeah.

Well, and look, and a lot of people say this is just a Bill's tailgate or something over here.

I'm not saying that.

Some people say this is a pinto tailgate.

I'm not saying that.

What we're saying is that this is a lot of drug use that's happening over there in

this town in Boston.

Yeah.

But here's another thing, though.

They have this everywhere now.

Oh, it's everywhere.

Every city has this.

Every democratically run city, I think.

I could be wrong.

Well, we don't have one here.

I know that.

I hope not anyway.

I don't don't know.

Austin got ruined.

Austin was a blast.

And I took my daughter there several years.

I'd been there 10 years ago.

And I was like, this is the coolest place.

Reminds me of here a little bit, like 6S, 6th Street, where all the bars used to be.

And then I went back a few years later because my daughter's way into music.

I wanted to take her.

And she was afraid to get out of the car.

There were homeless people sleeping in hammocks strung from street signs in the street.

And it was just rampant.

Before they, like, if you were homeless, you got arrested there.

Yeah.

Which isn't the best thing, but you got to do something.

They're like throwing bricks through all the windows that have been there a long time austin got ruined i mean seattle's a shithole portland yeah portland is um i'll have to sneeze but um portland is a shithole but also it's awesome i will say this yeah i was up there i when i do landscape photography it's a hard beer i used to and i try went up to oregon and and um and washington and i love it's a coolest place like it's such a cool vibe you know but yeah i do

that element that's out there it's like why are we at it's like i don't know their end game like what is the point of ruining all these cities i think they want it to just, they want us to deteriorate.

They want us to have no sense of purpose, right?

They want us to like not have any pride in the places where we are because they've been so riddled.

They get people addicted.

You know,

the opioid epidemic was put on America and was allowed to occur, right?

They want

that when I was young.

No, they want this to happen.

It is a, there is, it's no doubt to me that this is an organized agenda.

Yeah, I don't get it.

But I believe that people can fight back, and I believe that.

I think it started a little bit.

I think so, and I hope so.

And also, it gives you a sense of purpose in the world.

It's like you're here to defeat evil, you know, and we are all can be a part of that.

And I think that's something that

makes us feel that way.

Let's pivot a little.

You ended up in the...

Oh, quick question.

Did you ever see Irish Mickey Ward?

Did you ever run across him when you were running around that over there?

Did you ever hear about him or anything?

Oh, yeah, he's a boxer.

Yeah.

Yeah, I never ran across him.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was just watching The Fighter the other day.

That's about him, right?

About him, yeah.

Wasn't he in it?

Didn't he play as the coach

or something?

No, he, I thought they gave him a part, he was in it at the end, okay.

Christian Bale,

that's when he got all skinny for it.

Yeah, such a great movie, but and all the sisters and stuff, they did such a great job in that film.

I got to go watch Laney Wilson last night.

Oh, that's right, the concert.

How was it?

Yeah, I should have got y'all tickets.

I didn't even know we were here.

Oh, no, goodness.

That's okay.

Uh, it was so great, it was so great.

Jellyroll

was Zayer, so I got to see him.

Ella Langley, I got to meet her.

She has a beautiful voice.

It was just great.

It was like a special time.

Nice.

Yeah.

And Lainey's just a boss.

She's just turned into like a

some people start to step into whatever gift they were given in the world.

And some people kind of meander around the outside of it, I think.

And

in no way is like a Vic is better than the other really.

I think it's all by person, but she has just really embraced this role of just being like this on stage presence.

Yeah.

It was really powerful to watch.

She does a great job.

Pivoting anyway, that's

you ended up in the human trafficking unit.

Yes.

Is that a safe term or how does that work?

So I was in a district detective at Dorchester and then I went for several years, like five years or so, to the human trafficking unit.

And then I went back to Dorchester.

But yes, I had a five-year stint in the human trafficking unit as a detective.

So

what is your definition of human trafficking?

Let's just get get that clear because you hear so much, right?

Like a few years ago, you would hear this social kickball that was big.

This was four years ago, and everybody notices it's gone now, right?

Notice how the kickballs fly.

It's like, oh, that's the big thing.

Everybody's commenting on it online, and now it's gone, right?

It's really out of the zeitgeist.

I know it's still, there's still things happening, but notice how that happens, right?

And everybody's like, you'd see memes online.

It's like, tonight while you sleep, one and a half million children will be taken across on trains across America being human trafficked.

And you're like, what in the shit, dude?

So what did you really see?

What were you expecting when you got into that?

So I didn't know, like everybody else, I didn't really know what that meant.

I just, you know, I knew someone asked me to, if I wanted to join the unit.

And, you know, I didn't know a lot about it.

I thought it was just like the movies, like, you know, people being snatched off the street and forced into

to be prostitutes.

In my experience, at least when I did it, that was not the case.

So I guess human trafficking is like when someone's trafficked for the purpose of to sell sex, right, against their will through, you know,

coercion or force or threats or whatever.

But when I got there, a lot of the cases we had, it's funny, there were just several pimps that kind of ran the city that were involved.

You always came back to the same like six or seven guys who always had all these different women working for them.

And it was always girls, not always, I shouldn't say that.

Mostly it was girls from the neighborhood or just outside the city, like the suburbs or whatever.

And something in their life like was fucked up, whether it was, you know, a parent situation where they had one parent or they'd been like sexually abused as kids themselves, or there was like a DCF, which is Department of Children and Families, like there were foster kids.

It was always kind of something missing.

It could just be they weren't getting attention at home or they weren't happy.

And the pimps, a lot of them could be very charming.

And they would meet these girls.

They'd just meet them in the streets, go to the train station.

They hang at the T, at the T in Boston.

Or I had one girl was a guy who started walking, talking to her when she was walking down the street and like, oh, you're pretty, you want to be in a music video?

And she's like, she's like a teenage girl.

Yeah, that'd be cool.

And she went and like, they shot the video.

And then like, say, like, we have to finish the video.

And then they like make her go to another state.

And like, like, oh, we're going to take pictures of you and put you online.

And, and

you're going to, you know, have sex with these guys for money.

They don't get any of the money.

The pimps get all the money.

So that was a situation where it was kind of, she was not alone.

She was not willing.

Like, that was kind of a quick one, like over a week or two.

But a lot of them, they groomed the girls girls for a long time.

They, oh, you don't have any money?

I'll give you some money.

I'll take you to get your nails done, honey.

I had one guy, I literally had text messages for like a month's worth, and you could see him grooming her.

She worked in a store.

I think her dad, her mother was deceased, and her dad now wanted to be a woman.

And it was like fucking with her head.

And he'd like changed his name to Susan or something.

Oh, yeah.

And she met this guy working in a store.

And he was like.

He's like, oh, you're working today, honey?

I'll bring you a tuna sandwich.

And I don't want you hungry.

And it was, you could see it was like, you know, this progression of a relationship.

And like a month later, she was like, oh, that's my boyfriend.

Well, I don't think it's this pimp is their boyfriend.

And like a month later, you could see the messages.

He's like, all right, we have seven guys coming in.

And,

you know, you're going to do all seven of them at a party.

There's like a bachelor party or some shit.

And then she's like, can I keep, you know, a hundred bucks for the piggy bank?

And he's like, no, it's all mine.

It was like $1,000.

So it's like, they see something missing in their lives and they just manipulate them or they're like, they're a little messed up to begin with.

They're like, they're they're in a bad situation.

They don't know how to get out of it.

They think, these guys are boyfriend.

You'll do this if you love me, kind of shit.

So, that was a lot of the sex trafficking you saw, huh?

Yeah, that's what that was in my experience.

Yes, there wasn't a lot of people being snatched off the street.

Like, no one's being shipped in in a shipping container from Russia.

And all these girls getting, you know, the nail salon,

the spas are a little bit different.

The Asian women, they were moving them around.

Yeah,

the massage salons.

Yeah.

But those were tough because the second we try to like go in and they move.

They're gone.

They're gone to New York, New Jersey.

Different women.

They're gone.

They don't know their names.

There's like how many different dialects of

Chinese.

And they're trying to get our Chinese officers, hey, can you translate this?

And they're like, it's a different dialect.

Like, it was a disaster.

So

those were, those were tough.

You're like, we're looking for.

So we did those.

Yeah, that's crazy.

That kind of shit's wild.

And I don't like those kind of places.

I'll say that.

I walk into one of those salons or whatever.

I say, if anybody jerks off,

I'm jerking them off.

That's what I tell them.

No homo.

I'm just saying, but I'm, you know, I'm saying, I'll put the pressure on everybody in the building.

So, so everyone knows what you're going into.

Don't even jerk me off.

If somebody tries to even sneak up on me and jerk me off, some of these girls would sleep in there, they would sleep on the beds.

Yeah, they sleep and then they wake up and jerk you off.

That's a problem.

But one of them had, we went in one of those sinks.

There were baby turtles in the sink filled with water swimming around.

I'm like, what the?

They like the animalia in there.

They love aqua animals.

Oh, they're going to make soup out of it.

I don't know what the hell they were doing.

I don't know what they were doing with those things.

We're like, what the fuck?

I don't know.

And we also did, as part of the human trafficking, we did what we call John Stings.

We target the sex buyer rather than, that's kind of a, it was a European model that they found to be more effective rather than, you know, cops used to arrest the prostitute.

Well, what about the guy paying for it?

Of course, yeah.

So then you target that angle of it.

Like, we're going to tell you, if you don't have buyers, then no one's going to be selling it.

They tried to do it kind of backwards that way.

So we would do what we call John Stings and we put ads online.

Back page doesn't exist anymore, but we'd put them on that.

It was Craigslist first and then it was Backpage.

I don't know how they're doing it now, whether it's on Insta or, you know, TikTok.

I don't know where the hell they're doing it now.

I've been out of the unit for about six years now.

You'd have parties and people would find people on Backpage and invite them over, you know, or like

they would hire strippers and stuff like that to come and dance or hang out.

So it was definitely a place where people were kind of illicit and illegal.

Oh, yeah, that was there.

Yeah.

When you put an ad in, you could pay extra to bump it at the top.

So it was so prevalent when we were doing it.

Like we'd put an ad in the morning.

Say I put my ad on.

We'd like three or four of us in the office would do fake ads and you'd have to do like real photos because the guys who were doing it all the time, like we'll do reverse Google image search to find out, did this picture appear someplace else?

So they know if it's a fake photo, because then maybe you're a cop, but you're not going to look like who you're pretending you look like.

So we'd all put our ads up.

And then

you put on eight at 8:30, your phone's ringing.

It's crazy.

8:30 in the morning, they're already starting to call, and we'd set up our dates for for the day like we'd have a hotel room and we'd be waiting in the hotel room and we'd have dates set up every half an hour to show up and were y'all hide under the bed no no it's hiding under the bed i would have to open the door and and there'd be like guys like in the bathroom officers in the bathroom behind the wall so i my trick was and i was at like 45 46 when i was doing it and my ad i'm supposed to be 34.

i didn't look 34 but i'd open the door i'd have like my who would be the girl oh i was the prostitute yeah what yeah what were y'all so i'd have to talk to them on the phone were we all understaffed or something?

They just shouldn't have you also the detective.

Well, no, you have to have, you're the one, you're the one establishing probable cause.

So it, it, if, if someone else is doing it and then you have to like go testify in court, well, you're not the one that had the interaction with them.

So what we do, we put our ad on the online, you put your photos and some stupid saying, like, you know, what you're offering and how much it costs.

So it's, and of course, there's acronyms for everything.

That's what I didn't know anything about this before I started, about GFE, which is girlfriend experience, which means he'll kiss you.

Full service means like sex and a blowjob.

And then there's like Russian and Greek, and there's all these stupid acronyms for everything else.

And

they thought they were being clever by saying, Oh, I want GFE.

So they're not asking for sex.

Oh, I see.

So by them saying, I want GFE or I want Russian or I want this, they think they're being clever.

Except you can say, like, well, based on my training experience, I know Russian means titty job, like, or whatever.

And then, so you talk, they call you on the phone.

Titty job.

Yeah, that's a Russian, by the way.

I didn't know that.

I'll take it.

I mean, whatever they're getting, you know what I mean?

It is.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you'd basically talk to them on the phone.

They call you.

And some of them are real nervous, obviously.

You could tell the long timer.

They got right to business.

And some of them want to flirt with you on the phone or whatever.

Can you send pictures of your eyes or your feet?

The foot fetish guys are out there big time.

But and then you're like, the more you do it, I'm like, I don't have time for this shit.

Like, do you want to come?

You were showing up or not?

So you'd basically make the arrangement.

So once they showed up, you already have problem cause.

They always already agreed to pay you for sex before they ever showed showed up.

So then by them showing up at the hotel, they're like basically completing the entire

elements of the crime.

They showed up.

They already agreed to pay you for such and such.

So then you can arrest them.

Right.

When they get there, really.

Yeah.

But like, depending where we do it, if we did it like nights or downtown parts of the high-end hotels would let us use their rooms.

Oh, give us a hotel.

I would never do anything in there.

Every time we did it, we got a doctor.

Every fucking time.

The Brigham Hospital, one of the best hospitals in the world, allegedly.

The Beth Israel.

One guy showed up in scrubs with like Beth Israel Hospital on it.

Yeah.

Like, what the fuck?

You on lunch break?

It was crazy.

We got doctor every time.

Why do you think?

I don't know.

Too busy?

Too busy to get a girlfriend?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Or there, yeah.

I wonder what that is.

I don't know.

It was, we always got, and it's, and when we did it in like the not-so-nice parts of town, then we'd get like, you know, the cable guys and the plasterers.

And for some reason, I always felt bad for them.

They didn't have any money, but it's the same crime.

So I shouldn't have felt bad for them.

They were just, you know, but I did.

The rich guys, because they got very arrogant when you tried to arrest them.

They were all arrogant.

We had one guy who was a Northeastern University professor.

And he was on the phone with me saying, I'm a professor.

And he was trying to talk me down on my prices.

I don't make a lot of money.

That's what I would do.

I would text him.

I'd be like, look, how about this?

$70.

Somebody's coming over for $70.

I'm like, Jesus.

And now I'm like,

I would,

he was bargaining with me.

I don't make a lot of money.

Meanwhile, I made more money than me.

Yeah.

But I always laugh.

He wanted me.

He's like, will you put me in yoga positions?

That's what he wanted.

He's fucking freaks.

I'm like, yeah, I got my Lulus on.

Come on over.

Like, you just, he wanted to be in yoga positions, me to put him in them, and then aggressive kissing.

And when you get some weird requests or anything like that.

Yeah.

Like what anything pretty wild?

Like, were they any like people want you to enjoy them and their wife?

Like, join something like that?

No, nothing.

We never got those.

We got a lot of, almost everybody was married.

One of them we did.

We met him in a bar.

He said it was the end of the night.

He was too nervous to come to a hotel.

He said, he'd never done this before or whatever.

So we agreed to meet him downstairs.

The hotel had a bar downstairs.

And I was just sitting there.

And now, again, I'm supposed to be 34.

And even 10 years ago, I didn't look 34.

I thought you look great.

I fucking look 34, but thank you.

But so I'm sitting at the bar waiting.

And the signal is for like me to touch my hair.

And there's two cops down the end of the bar.

And he comes in.

I see him walk past.

He comes in.

The bar is crowded.

I see this guy walk in.

I said, that's him.

I knew it was him.

You could tell like his face was he was he wasn't like hey i just got to a bar and he's all chilled he was like intense and he walked right past me and went to the men's room and looked at him like that's him he's got his burberry scarf on and his you know 400 jacket yeah and he came over and approached me and the librarian tabbed me and it's you know said oh my name or whatever and then when they came up to arrest him he fainted We had so many guys faint or like collapse on the bed.

He's, he went, his face, he was white as a ghost and he just went down.

So the officers like drag him out to to the vestibule of the bar.

We're like, we got to call this guy in the ambulance, but he's snapped too, and he's crying and shit.

And he's like, oh, he's like 30 years old.

I'm like, dude, he's like,

I'm so anxious all the time.

I'm trying to get my wife pregnant.

And I was like, you think you're going to get her pregnant by fucking a prostitute?

Like, what is wrong with you?

I mean, it's worth a shot.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm not saying

go fuck a stranger.

And they none of them, nobody wants to use a condom.

That was bareback.

That was another code.

Oh, they were doing.

Yeah, that was a code.

BBBJ's

bareback

so they didn't want to.

Oh, there you go.

Hey, you got bareback sex without condom.

Yeah.

BBBJ.

And they'll ask you how much extra.

Like, well, how much will you charge me for a bareback?

So none of them wanted to use a condom.

So they're all going home to their families after fucking some Rando who's having sex with five people that day.

Yeah.

Like, how many does it?

Not to mention, what township is it in?

Just Boston.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

So this guy's bringing the, oh, I'm trying to get my wife pregnant.

What are you bringing home?

Yeah.

Bottom bitch.

That's the pimp's main, main girl.

She's the one who runs it for him.

I see that in the terminology.

Yeah.

Let's see some more terms here.

The in-call, the SP.

That's only B.

See?

They go on forever.

Huh.

Yeah.

And were people ever asked, so I'm trying to think of anything.

Were people ever asking for like golden showers, urination type of thing?

I never had, I never got asked for those.

One thing they asked me for, the guy's like, will you do a handy?

And I was like, is that a quick hand job?

Like, I have no idea what the fuck it was.

And my partner at the time is like Googling on the Urban Dictionary, like, what's that?

It was some crazy thing about choking and she's on top and then you flip and he's on.

I was like, how the fuck do they come up with these names?

Like, what does that even mean?

That's all that cirque de Soleil shit people are doing.

That's crazy.

Like, how is that a handy?

Because I was like, is that, like, what is that?

That's all that welterweight stuff, I think.

I don't know what it is.

What about, was there a lot of stuff like people want you to touch their, the hole in their butt or anything like that?

Like, any weird stuff?

No, they never got that specific on the phone.

But they would ask for anal.

That was Greek.

They were like, one of them, their clever way, they're like, ooh, do you speak any languages?

So then I'm supposed to say, yeah, I speak Greek and Russian.

That's what I mean.

They think they're clever.

They have all these weird online forms where they talk about the prostitutes.

They rate them.

I forget what the page they used to rate them on.

So that's why we had to change up our photos and use real stuff.

Because these guys all talk to each other.

The guys that do it all the time, not the one-timers.

The lifers.

Yes, or dabblers like yourself.

Dabblers, yeah.

In and out.

In and out.

In and out.

Yeah, they talk to each other and rate the girls.

It's crazy.

It's It's a crazy life.

And when would a night like that for you guys end?

Like, was there a certain point where you guys were going to get away from the city?

Yeah, we kind of call it.

So, like, the calls would start coming in the morning, and we'd like we'd have, you know, higher overtime to transport out because they'd be showing up.

Sometimes they show up at the same time.

We're like, oh, shit.

And they're coming to the same room.

So we try to stagger the dates,

dates, and we'd have them schedule the area hour, every half hour, whatever.

And after like eight or ten hours, the boss would call it.

We always did a Super Bowl weekend.

It was

Cook County in Illinois did a big funding thing for it.

They got money from the feds and they all kind of agreed to do it.

So at certain times a year, Super Bowls were always when we did it.

So we call it a night after like eight, after we arrested like 12, 14 people or whatever.

She'd be like, all right, that's enough.

Like,

Super Bowl weekend, you guys are.

So on most Super Bowl weekends, you guys are doing that.

We were when we were in the human trafficking unit.

Yeah.

But it's, we got one guy.

He was, he was, I was talking to him on the phone.

I'm like, this guy is so fucking old.

Now I'm laughing.

I was very shy about it when I first started doing it, but I don't know who the hell.

I'm not a prostitute.

I don't talk to these people.

so i'd be all anxious like hiding in the bathroom so there's just eight cops in there i don't want them listening to me like yeah you can stick in my ass for an extra 50 like i was embarrassed and then i got more comfortable and they would just be laughing like i'd just be like yeah this is what you want okay and everybody's laughing one guy come on my four this guy for 30 bucks yeah sounded so old and he's like you gotta you know yeah you know i'm an older gentleman and i remember saying that's all right i'll take it easy on you and then he shows up he's like shorter than me turns out he's like multi-millionaire philanthropist from beacon Hill on the boards of like children's hospital and all this crazy.

He laughed.

He burst out laughing when he got arrested.

He was a tiny little guy with glasses.

He laughed.

Everyone else shits himself or gets angry.

But he laughed.

He's the only one.

He didn't give a shit.

He's like, yeah, I'll pay the fine.

I don't,

I don't care.

Just get my phone back.

We take all their phones.

And I remember I was doing a detail at Fenway Park and he was in contact.

He's like, I paid my fine.

Can I get my phone back?

Because we take their phones as evidence.

We have to show their text messages or whatever.

And if they plead, pay the fine or plead out, they get their property back because the case is done.

But if they're fighting it, then we keep the evidence because we have to, you know, do a search warrant on the phone and all this stuff.

He's like, Yeah, I paid my fine.

He literally showed up at the red.

I'm like, I'm working in detail.

Like, you can come and get it.

So I was in uniform that day because normally I'm not in uniform.

And he showed up and he's laughing in the car.

I'm like, here's your phone.

I'm like, what's the matter with you?

Like, why don't you?

We got money.

Go get a girlfriend.

He's like, ah, sam, it's not worth the trouble.

I was like, all right, have a good day.

He did not give a shit.

Wow.

Yeah.

Gosh, dude.

Did you ever just like accidentally just hook up with one of them?

Like, did that ever happen?

No.

No, that didn't happen.

Like, did one of her show up and you were like, oh, this guy's kind of cute.

I wish it wasn't like this.

No, I never thought I wish it wasn't like this.

But some of them weren't, you know, that's what we say.

Some of them are good looking.

You're like, what's go get it?

What's wrong with you?

Like, you're a good looking.

We used to say, like, you're a good-looking dude.

You can get a girlfriend.

Some of them are like fucking grotesque.

Like, you could see why they're paying for it.

Like I said, the the doctors don't have time, maybe.

I don't know.

They don't want the commitment, but some of them be good looking dudes.

Like, what's wrong with you?

I think for some guys, they, they have a, their sexual experience, especially if it starts off with pornography a lot of times is really skewed.

Well, that's an issue.

Now they don't know what's real life.

Right.

But they don't, but then it's, say, if like, you know, if it starts off with pornography, it's very skewed, right?

Because this is an environment that's kind of like.

You can get exactly what you want out of pornography.

You can just put the terms in.

You get what you want.

And

that's your intimacy.

So that's how you build it.

right so then it almost makes it doesn't it's not right doesn't make anything right or anything like that and some people agree you know like prostitution is one of the oldest businesses in in the universe right it's always been there um

but some people they

the next the closest way they can get somebody is almost just trying to create the same thing but in real life right so like i need to create the same thing where it's like i can kind of get what i would like yeah um these are my google terms these are the things that i like and i'm gonna pay for that they don't want to waste time maybe i don't know.

Oh, I think some people, for sure, it's time.

It's like, I don't want to have a big relationship.

I just want to have someone else.

I don't want to take someone out to dinner every, you know, twice a week and spend hundreds.

And there's a lot of that that goes on.

And I don't look down upon any of it.

I just think it's interesting that, you know, but yeah, the laws are the laws in those.

And that's just what your experience was like.

Yeah.

So what I learned is like, I, you know, it's like, hey, if a girl wants to do it, but in reality, I think 99% of the time, they're not making a dime.

So they're doing it all and the pimp's taking all the money.

So that's why I was like, well, that sucks.

Like I had like one girl who was like, no, this is how much I make.

And she does, but something called sissy play.

And I was like, what's guys who like want not want to get hurt, but close to not like, say, to masochism or whatever.

But

she made a lot of money.

She's like, I make, you know, $500 an hour or whatever.

That's a weirdo, guys.

That's it.

You know, I mean, my partner be like, we need to do a job when we retire.

Like, what the hell?

I know it, dude.

But she kept her own money, but literally out of everyone else I ever met, they didn't, they didn't keep it.

They had to hand it over.

So guys think when we try to do it as like an education thing we tell the guys when we rest them like we're not doing this to her because they're always like don't tell my wife like everyone would panic for sure say look we're just it's kind of was supposed to say at the time like an education thing we're trying to make you aware these girls you think it's you you're doing something and you're paying for the service they're giving you the service and everyone leaves happy but the girls weren't getting the money they were getting the shit kicked out of them half the time it's heartbreaking so

oh yeah happy stuff i hated telling people i worked there because it was like a conversation killer like you'd see people's shoulders just droop droop.

You're like, oh, you work at the HMCUNA?

They're like, oh, so, you know,

nothing good there.

Nothing good happening there.

Well, it's just interesting how perverse like sexuality can get and the things that cause it in our world, you know.

It's another thing why they even allow pornography to exist.

Like, I don't know if we need it like as readily available as it is.

We had a woman come on named Lila McElwaite, and she was telling us that a lot of the pornography you see online, it's non-consensual, right?

And so a lot of times you could have somebody basically masturbating or watching and enjoying a crime and they don't even know it.

So just the whole circle of it all is kind of depraved.

But then I have friends that do sex work and they work for themselves

and they're masterful at it.

Fair enough.

If they're working for themselves and they want to do that and they're making the money,

that is victimless.

Yeah.

And I think, and people may have issues with people on both sides of the transaction probably have some issues

and may or may not.

It could be different.

But

anyway,

yeah, that would just be, but yeah, some people are in a weird stuff.

I had a buddy who would hire a woman just to tickle him until he shit himself.

Oh, fuck.

This is some weird shit out there.

There's a lot of fetishes, man.

That's why I found out I started putting my feet in the photos because I was like, I got to get the foot fetish guy.

Yeah, yeah.

Because people want some.

Like the guy wanted me to put him in yoga positions.

How does that do it for you?

Yeah.

It's bizarre.

Like you said, the guy wanted to tickle till he got till he shit.

Yeah.

That's a really specific wish.

Oh, if you tickle them.

Like, how do you get there?

Yeah.

How do you get there?

Like, were you tickled as a kid?

And we're like, oh, no, I'm going to shit myself.

And then as an adult, that's what it does it for you.

Probably, I don't know, where you watch a funny movie and then you have to pee.

Like, maybe, I don't know.

I don't know how you start.

I don't know how you get there.

But yeah, if somebody tickled me to last shit, I would be upset.

Right?

I think overall.

I think most would.

Did you ever feel like you had to be like a protector for these women or did a lot of them feel like they just, they were in their own space and that's what they wanted?

And it's not something you can really help with.

Like a lot of the women.

There was a lot of case.

It was a lot of, I felt like you're just banging your head off the wall going nowhere.

You'd help somebody,

you get them away from somebody, you get them into it's like a safe home.

Like there was a woman who ran a non-profit, a place to put these people, get them some clothes.

Like a lot of them, they'd steal their shoes and their IDs and their phones or whatever, so they couldn't run away.

So you find them a place to stay and, you know, get them target gift cards they can go buy like a toothbrush and some soap.

And then like in the middle of the night, they jump out the fucking window.

So like you do, you're like getting called out of your house at 10 o'clock at night to go help somebody.

And then they're like, oh, well, she's gone.

And so many of them ended that way.

Or they just disappeared.

They wouldn't testify against them.

So the cases went nowhere.

So it was a little frustrating.

Yeah, I think it's people, you can't help people till they are ready for some help.

Exactly.

What about any, was there any gay activity?

Was there any gay pimps out there?

Was that that kind of thing?

I don't know.

Or did a guy ever lie and say, like, when you busted him, like, like, say you set him up with a female prostitute and he just like, he was like, I'm gay.

I'm just joking.

You know, happy Halloween or whatever.

No, they never tried that.

I mean, the jigs up as soon as they show up.

Most of them knew it.

They like fall on the bed.

A couple of them cry.

Like, really?

Yeah.

But no, none of them, no one ever tried to show the gay card.

Me like, it wasn't me.

I'm just here for fun.

Yeah, I'm just, I was just joking.

Fucking weird.

Yeah.

Dude.

You had a three-year investigation that you worked on.

Yeah, that was a human trafficking case that I did with someone from Homeland Security Investigations.

Okay, and what was that like?

Take me through some of that story.

You had a three-year investigation?

That actually started with the one I told you, the girl, the music video.

Okay.

That's how it started.

And we got a call to

Children's Hospital in Boston saying this girl there said she was raped in Rhode Island.

I think she was 15, maybe or 16.

That's how that case started.

And then we found out.

All she had was a nickname.

It wasn't even a guy's real name.

She had like his Facebook page and a nickname.

Like Smokey or something.

Yeah.

I don't want to say it.

Okay.

Sorry.

Never mind.

No, the guy, yeah.

I was just guessing if it wasn't.

No, it wasn't Smokey.

So she all shares a nickname and we kind of worked backwards from that.

Like one of the Homeland Security agents drove the girl.

She's like, oh, this woman drove me to Rhode Island, but she wasn't involved, but she drove me.

And this is where she lived.

She lived in this neighborhood.

That's where I had to meet her.

So the Homeland Security guy started driving around.

And we saw the car in the neighborhood and got the license plate.

So then I started looking on my end because he doesn't have access to Boston Police Reports.

I start looking for the license plate

and a car that matches her description because we don't know if it's exact.

And I find a car, but it's a guy's name.

But then I start looking through reports with someone for that last name.

And then I found a woman with that last name and with her first name, because she told me the girl's, she knew the woman's first name.

All we have was a first name and a red car.

So then I find the last name.

in the car registration, I find old reports with this woman with her first name and the same last name.

And we're like, oh, shit, that we pull up the, you know, we did a photo array to show the girl, and she's like, that's her.

So then we start talking to her, and we end up going, it was like a spider web.

So these two guys, there were two guys who pimped her out in Rhode Island, where she did get raped by some guy.

The guy in Rhode Island, I got like seven years for the rape or something,

because she did not go willingly.

And

those two guys worked for another pimp.

And he had women, all, I think, he was in his late 20s, and he he had,

I think like 11 baby mamas and like 17 kids or 14 kids, something crazy.

But he had like 27, 28 victims, girls that worked for him over a period of time, including a bottom bitch.

She's like the girl that works for him, who recruits girls and is basically in charge of everything, collecting the money, whatever.

She works herself too, usually, the bottom bitch.

But that took like three years because we were like in Maine, New York.

These girls went to New Jersey.

They went to Vegas, California.

They would drive.

They would drive to Vegas and work and then drive back.

But he had all these women working from him.

He was very, very violent.

Like he would beat the shit out of the girls.

He would pee on them, stole their shoes, their licenses, their cell phones, so they couldn't call home.

Like, like I said, some of these girls came from like messed up places.

And it took like three years to get enough people to, because every time we found somebody, we found somebody else.

Yeah.

So that took a long time.

But that was, that was, he was, he was, I think he got like 33 years in jail because that went federal because of all the different states.

That was a biggie.

Well, thank you for that.

Thank you for that work.

Thank you.

I liked going back to the district.

I mean, I liked it at the time, the schedule worked, but the district is great.

People like the patrolman.

Because when you're in the human trafficking, there's no patrolman.

It's just detectives.

So it's like four or five detectives and a supervisor.

And when you go back to the district, there's 100, 200 people there.

So it's a lot more fun.

Yeah, you're part of life.

You laugh all day and stuff like that.

So I was happy.

I realized that kind of stuff.

i'll go hang out with the football team around here sometimes and uh it's just like some of the best parts of my week because there's just people around yeah it's like otherwise my life is very much like kind of by myself or like not by myself but it's a limited amount you know yeah it got it got um it it got old and again all the cases most of them go nowhere so that's frustrating and i just wanted to go you know back to the district with and it's great people they're the best people on earth and you just had laugh all day you know like when it's real shitty like the moment the guy you know two women stabbed and the dog was stabbed in the stomach or whatever.

Like, those are like, we work with really good people.

We're all there together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you, um, and you won Detective of the Year for that, right?

Yeah, for the federal message, for the three-year, yeah.

Let's go, Karen.

Congratulations.

It's funny, you know, Mark Wahlberg was at the ceremony for the Boston Police Foundation, gave me the award.

The Detectives Union did too, but the Boston Police Foundation did it.

It's like a non-profit.

And at the time, they were promoting the movie Patriots Day.

And Peter Berg, the director, and Mark Wahlberg were there for the award ceremony, gave him a picture with them or whatever.

You did?

Yeah.

That's cool.

I'm going to have to, I will.

Yeah, they were promoting that.

I'll text Mark and send him our picture.

I don't know if he probably doesn't even know who I am, but I think I accidentally snuck his number off of a sheet once.

Oh, Mark Wahlberg?

Yeah.

Yeah, because he's from Dorchester, where I was at

least.

Yes.

Oh, and then I'll make sure.

That's where he and his brothers, the family's from.

Not even in a braggy way out to be like, hey, this is awesome.

I just want you to let you know I'm at one of Dorchester's finest today right here.

But congratulations.

That's so cool.

Did that make you feel a sense of accomplishment?

Yeah, I mean, I worked hard.

Again, it was with Homeland Security and a Homeland Security agent.

She did a shit ton of work more than me.

She was great.

We worked together on it.

And like I said,

it was a long investigation.

So I was very happy to

have it resolved, you know?

Yeah.

In the process of it, someone, the pimp who was in charge, who thought the first two pimps that got caught with the girl in Rhode Island that I found through a nickname or whatever, they thought one of them was ratten to the feds.

So he had someone shoot one of them in the head.

No, he lived, but not good.

It was like a piece of pie was missing from his head.

And he just, he could sing, but he couldn't talk.

He could no longer speak.

And that's when I found out they said in the brain, like, oh, it's different parts of the brain.

He could like sing the alphabet and happy birthday, but he couldn't speak.

And he was not ratten to the feds.

He was nobody.

He was like away in New Jersey with something.

Not at that point.

You're like, who did it?

And he's like, D-E-F-G.

Yeah, I got, I was in court on something else.

And one of the teams.

Did you hear this guy got shot?

And I was like, what's his name?

I was like, oh, shit, that's we're looking for him.

We have an arrest warrant for him.

But that guy had him shot.

Man, they get caught up in such depths of darkness.

Yeah, so that was, I was glad to be done with that one.

Is most of your social life with police officers and cops and stuff?

It is.

It was until I moved.

Moved when?

I moved out of Boston.

I moved to South Carolina.

You did?

Yes.

No way.

What part do you live in?

Yeah, I live just outside of Charleston.

Dude, I used used to go to college at Charleston for one semester.

Nice.

Yeah, I used to live over on King Street above my buddy's apartment for a while.

It was pretty neat.

It was a little bit different, but it was fun.

And it's beautiful over there.

It's gorgeous.

And I don't want to be cold.

So, and I'm not a Florida person.

And your daughter lives over there?

Yeah.

You guys got Folly Beach.

That's right there.

Yeah, IOP.

I'll Palm Sullivan's Island.

Yeah, but

we live north of, just north of Charleston.

So, yeah, we moved there.

So right before I moved,

I forget where we're going with this.

What was this?

Is most of your social life with the city?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Until I moved, yes.

And it's weird.

Everyone's like, oh, you got to have friends that aren't cops.

So I have friends that I'm still friends with from high school that I've been friends with for 40 years.

So I have a core group of girls, a few girls that I've known since high school.

But it's weird when you become a cop, like it's hard.

to talk to regular people

only because I always said I felt like a party trick.

If you're out in a large group and someone's like, oh, they're a cop.

Do you got any stories?

Do you ever shoot anybody?

anybody shooting you didn't fucking shoot anybody and if i did it was a bad day so maybe i don't want to talk about it so i think that's why we all just end up hanging together because we get it whether it's you know cops or nurses or whatever um

yeah they get it because you don't want to feel you don't you don't want to be performing all the time like i don't want to talk about it sucks yeah but some of it's funny just handcuff sex jokes you know like dick on the sidewalk sounds funny but that was a suck morning you know what i mean more for that kid than me but in baby in a trash can and all this other shit.

It's hard.

Yeah, first of all, a lot of these sound like

a lot of these sound like baby shower party games, too.

I do want to say that, and that's not what we're doing here today, guys.

It's just kind of some of the way things sound.

Yes, so that's what those are what I call my chapter, my titles of my chapters of the alleged book I'm going to write.

I love that.

That's why I shortened it like that.

But like, you don't want to feel like you're on all the time.

So that's why we hang together because we all get it.

And we have a weird sense of humor.

We're different people.

Like when we have Christmas, I run the, I used to run the Christmas parties for our district.

and they'd be like, oh, we can section off a part of the bar.

We're like, no, no, no, no, we have to be in our own space.

Like, we are not fit for public society, I used to say, because we say shit that is not funny.

And if it's funny to us, but if like random normal people who just go about their business heard some of the shit that we'd say, they'd be horrified.

Oh, I've had very recent experience with some of that, and I feel you 100%.

Wow.

Was it hard to move away then?

No, I was ready.

You were?

Yeah, I was done, and I wanted to be warm.

My daughter was already down here.

so oh your daughter lives in charleston yeah

so i was so i wanted to come down is that your only child yeah oh she's beautiful thank you um and are you still married or no no divorce okay yeah and was that hard to is it hard to keep them do are a lot of officers married and is there a lot of dating on the force what's it what's that kind of life like for

it seems very tough to spend a lot of time together so there's always a lot of relationships form in the police department like cops end up married to each other um

i'm divorced i've I've been divorced for years.

It's funny, my ex-husband and his new one, he's remarried and wife, they moved down here too.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

So we all get along.

So they, so they could be near my daughter and they have a child as well.

So she has, she has a brother with him.

But

it's hard.

It seems easier now.

For some reason, cops now, in my experience that I've seen, are more family oriented than they were when I was young.

There was a lot more drinking going on then.

Like guys would stay late in the parking lot and like no one would go home.

And now everyone's all about their family.

So I I think it's morphed whether it's who they're choosing or who wants.

No one wants the job.

First of all, by the way, when I took the police exam, like 10,000 people took it, and now they can't even get like 800 people to take the test.

No one wants, I mean, it's terrible.

People hate us.

Of course, when you, when your district attorney is not supporting you, when your government isn't supporting you, all over the country, like no, but not the fire department.

Everyone, America's heroes.

It's the joke.

We laughed at.

No one wants to see us coming.

And it's just gotten worse and worse over time because we're not politically supported even nationally, or weren't in the past.

It's changed.

So it's hard to maintain relationships like unless you, because we're with each other, we all work 12, 14, 16 hours.

I can't even imagine.

And so that's how a lot of them end up together.

I think.

And then again, because they understand it.

It's hard for a non-police person to understand what's going through our crazy heads because we're all crazy.

or we wouldn't take we wouldn't have taken the job, I think, if it didn't make you crazy.

I can't even imagine.

You have to drive in a car that has a siren on it.

First of all, all,

sometimes it's kind of aggravating.

And then when you get there, you might have to shoot somebody or get shot.

Yeah.

I'm out.

Yeah, it's a lot.

You know,

so it's a lot for a regular person to live with someone who's dealing with that, I think.

Yeah.

Is it hard to keep the work at work for a lot of people or is it not?

Is it

changed?

I mean, it varies by person.

Some people can shut it off.

They don't give a shit.

Just go home and shut it off.

And some people get really, you know, fucked up over it and drink too much or they're too, you know, meant to like depression or whatever.

So.

So, what did you think about Trump utilizing the National Guard to help out in some of these situations?

I thought it was fucking great.

I did too.

I mean, if the mayor's not going to fix it, you can't have that much chaos in the streets.

Do something.

I agree.

The fact that they're fighting it, like, oh, how dare you clean up my city?

Are you insane?

I would love if there's military.

And I mean, like, especially if it helps us get to a point where we don't need that, where there's a bit of, you know, where it solves the problem.

People want it.

It's funny when everyone was hating on us a few years ago, bad after George Floyd and stuff.

Everyone hate us, videotaping you everywhere you go, cameras, every, every radio call you're at, the phone's out and in your face.

They're waiting for something to happen and they're cursing at you, spitting on, like they spit on you when they talk.

And

that's not, and you can't react to that.

You can't be like, you know, you can't get into it with people.

And so we're...

What pieces of shit

do that?

Everyone.

That's who does it.

Everyone.

Every piece of shit does it.

But then you find out like the normal people in the neighborhoods, they want us there.

They come out.

They're like, thank you.

Thank you for coming.

But that

doesn't happen as often as you'd like.

And it is interesting.

It is like, you know, I think it is a nice reminder to find ways to stop by our police and fire departments and be supportive, you know.

One thing that's kind of fun about fire departments, I'll say, is you can walk by and see the guys right there sometimes, right by the truck.

You know what I'm saying?

So you can go up and say, hey, you can go up and like.

Yeah, it's not like walking into a police station.

You're right.

Yeah, there, you're like, okay.

Well, it has to be secure because there's prisoners inside and there's firearms.

So it's true as different.

It can't be as open and welcoming.

At a fire department, there's just a crock pot full of freaking

ballpark franks going on.

So it's a different.

Now, they'll guard those with their life.

Somebody's got it.

Different atmosphere.

Yeah.

And yeah.

And there's the one guy that's like afraid to slide down the pole.

He's like,

he just waits until everybody else goes, and then he just takes the stairs real fast.

But it's none of that's any judgment.

These guys are heroes.

But that's one thing that's nice.

Like we were in New York the other day and they were even doing a call and we like took my buddy's son up and he like will wear his little fire jacket around town and he'll just like go get into the fire truck and shit.

It's like they come back and we're just like, this kid's just in their truck.

Oh, kids love fire trucks.

Oh, they love that.

I mean, that's, you know, cruisers.

They like the noise, the noise and the lights.

It's exciting.

They think it's cool, you know?

Oh, look at this.

Here we go.

Sean Diddy Combs sentencing live updates.

Comes gets 50 months in prison.

That's actually not that much, four years.

For his conviction on two prostitution-related offenses.

What were the offenses?

Can you let me know?

He must have been sex trafficking of a minor, maybe.

He got acquitted of the most serious charges he faced, racketeering, conspiracy, and sex trafficking, found him guilty on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution.

You know, I personally thought that this whole thing was something they were trying to create during the election of kind of like, I don't know how they were trying to use it, but I thought it was they were trying to.

He did some crazy shit.

Oh, for sure.

I mean, but do you think he was just a freak that got really addicted to what he was doing and a power, like a power-hungry, from what I hear, he's a very power-controlling type of person.

Yeah, yeah I mean I obviously don't know the gist of the cases why they charge him with conspiracy and sex trafficking with their minors involved so I don't know why yeah so we got what just over four years um so I don't know what he uh

I mean you can't get them for sex parties so there's obviously something there that's a good point

And who knows what they kept back?

Who knows what got like behind the story?

Yeah, stuff gets oppressed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Victims don't want to testify.

Was he the one with the girl who was kicking the shit out of him in the hallway at the elevator?

That was pretty bad to watch.

Yeah, never mind.

You know what?

Fuck that.

Give him fucking 10 more years.

I am.

I'm sorry.

And you know what's messed up?

I forgot about that.

Yeah.

You know, there's so much evil shit out there sometimes.

Well, it's non-stop.

Every week, there's something else.

Every day, something else comes out.

But do you think?

Okay, so going back to that, so that statement, and I agree with you is a lot.

But if we go back to like working the beats in Dorchester, when you were starting, like

there's a better way to do it, right?

There's a better way we can be yeah people have to be human beings but there's a lot of people that aren't there's pieces of shit for whatever reason whether it's poverty or their upbringing or drugs mess the fucks up families to know what so

i don't know i don't know what the answer is it's not what we're doing right

i wonder if it's what we are doing or what is being done to us that's having more of an effect on us or or probably some some well yeah when we can't control it people are going to be pieces of shit and bad like that's not our fault.

That's not your fault.

We didn't do anything.

We're just going about our business, having a job, getting up in the morning, going to work or whatever.

Yeah.

The people that choose to, I'm just going to fucking rob this person.

Some people are just bad people.

Yeah.

Some people end up that way because of the way they're raised.

And some people are just fucking bad.

They really are.

It's the way they are.

Yeah.

And I think sometimes we do get caught in this space of like, oh, we have to recuperate everybody and we got to save everybody.

Right.

There's real victims out there.

Right.

And it's not them.

It's not those guys.

That's a good point.

Oh, when it came to the prostitute, the John, the pimps and everything like that, is there a certain like ethnicity?

Like, is it Asian?

Is it black?

Is it white?

Is it the pimps?

Do you hear like a certain, is that a certain is that whole universe of a certain world?

Like, where a lot of these, because you always hear like Asian prostitution.

Like, was it a certain organization?

So the spas were Asian.

Their pimps were Asian.

But the ones in my experience, in all of my cases, whether they were male or female pimps, because we had a couple of females,

they were black.

They were African American.

Really?

Yeah.

Black female pimps too?

They worked.

Yes.

They ended like the bottom bitch.

They end up kind of working on their own.

The most common ethnicities of pimps in the United States, according to available arrest data and research, are predominantly black, African-American, making up about two-thirds of identified or arrested pimps.

Wow, followed by a smaller proportion of Latino, white, multiracial, mixed people.

They'll pretty much do anything.

And Asian individuals.

Yeah, the spas were...

The guys, people running those were Asian.

That's kind of crazy.

I wonder.

Well, maybe it has a lot to do with that music that's in that culture, too.

Just the way that some of that music is so vulgar and like bitch pimp and that, you know.

Yeah, stuff's glorified.

Yeah, that's a good point.

I think that that culture has the most glorification of the music, of the performers.

Now,

a lot of the producers and agents of that group are white.

So certainly just as much.

Yeah, they're involved too.

Responsibility, yeah.

Thank you so much for hanging out.

I want to know what do you like to do now?

So are you retired now?

I just retired three months ago.

Congratulations.

Thank you so much.

Very happy.

I put in.

You're supposed to put in 32 years to get your full pension, but I gave up after 31.

What?

Yeah, 32 years.

You get your, so you still get it.

You still get your pension.

No, I get my pension.

It's just not.

The most you're going to get is 80% of your salary after 32 years.

And I stayed till 31 years and I get like 77% or something.

That's fair.

Yeah, I'm down south now.

I go to the beach.

I paint.

I do all the painting

as a hobby.

You do?

Yeah.

Would you do us a little bitty painting and we could put in your pain?

No, I'm fucking terrible.

I'm just learning i copy artists that i like that's how i'm learning to like mix colors and stuff like that so i copy artists paintings that i appreciate and i try to recreate them just in the learning process i'm terrible i'm brand new if you ever do want to do something even small and it could even be years from now you want to i'll send you a little painting yeah my niece is an actual painter and i told her i was coming she's like bring bring theo a painting oh that's good that's sweet well i'm glad that i asked that would be really nice to have because then i can tell people who it's from all right um

and thank you so much for your service thank you so much thank you for having me thank you for having normal people on and not just you know like you it's nice to have someone who gives a what we're doing instead of you know yeah well i think i'm learning more that that's just so much more important to me sometimes i think i don't know this whole thing has been interesting like just talking to people and stuff like that because i'm not really the best interviewer but i do i am curious about people well that's what makes a good interview you ask people questions you know you're a great interviewer come on well that's

thank you you're welcome i love the amish kid interview that was great oh he was good he was great he was he was very well spoon he was just very direct he seemed so natural at it he really did i know i i see your hat there i like you i like your remnant it's really him and louis c kid just gave me his new book i give it to your daughter but it's kind of for boys it's a boy book is it a novel it is and he did a really great job writing all right special he's funny he's funny i know he had trouble in the past but he's a funny bastard yeah he is yeah and i'm so glad he had trouble in the past because that's how he and i got to know each other because we've all had trouble and fucking that.

So it's good.

That's great.

Yeah.

And in the spirit of service, we got a picture up of our, this is our Jim Jeffries.

He was a comedian that was on.

That's his nephew.

Oh, nice.

Lieutenant Max Nugent,

who was

an officer in the Australian Army, and he passed away in a helicopter crash.

So he is our

hero.

So we're excited to have him.

Have him there?

Yeah.

It's nice.

Yeah, he's cool.

He seems like a neat guy.

So I'm sure we'll get to know

channel some thoughts and feelings and energy from him over the years.

But anyway, thank you both for your service.

Congratulations on your move and you look lovely.

And I wish you a beautiful second half of your life as it evolves.

Thank you.

And thank you for bringing your daughter.

And we got you guys set up for dinner night here at 1230 Club.

That'll be fun.

That's lovely.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, I appreciate you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Yep.

Lovely to meet you.

Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves.

I must be

cornerstone.

Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this peace of mind.

I found I can feel it in my bones.

But it's gonna take

a little bit longer.