Retire? In this economy?!

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U.S. stock markets just ended.
They're worse. What will happen? I want a crystal ball to get through this.
Hey, you're listening to Explain It To Me. I'm John Glyn Hill.
And I know I'm not supposed to, but after hearing all of this news about the economy, its ups, its downs, I did the thing they tell us not to do. I looked at my 401k and you guys, it was not cute.
I started to worry, even more so for my parents and other people their age. They're so much closer to needing that money than I am right now.
I am 58 years old and I'm currently thinking about retiring from my state job and wondering,

how do you know when you've got enough money? How do you know?

Hi, this is Claire. I'm 66.
I want to retire. I need to retire.
I'm so stressed out.

I have a one-year-old grandson. I should retire, but I'm too terrified to because of everything that I see.

Hi, Claire.

Hi, how are you?

What are some of the big questions you have about retirement right now?

Mostly it's, am I going to be able to have Social Security?

I feel like its legs are trying to get cut out from under it, and it's going to collapse from the weight. I feel like prices of everything is going to go up.
The housing market is going to collapse. So I'm trying to find it.
Mostly I want a crystal ball to get through this. I just want to know what I can do now to protect myself more than what I've been thinking of.
This is unfortunately something that we have heard a lot from a lot of our readers. This is Noah Scheidloher, economy reporter at Business Insider.
He has a particular focus on older Americans. I called him up because he's heard from more than 3,000 baby boomers.
It seems almost every conversation that I have with older Americans talk about that in some regard, where a lot of people are saying, I prepared well, but how well did I prepare? Or some people are saying, well, I don't have a ton of money right now, and I'm really nervous.

And we have noticed this across the board, across wealthy individuals, people who are lower income, people who are relying on a lot of these social services. The Trump administration is saying we won't touch Social Security, we won't touch benefits.
But we are seeing a lot of changes right now. and we have spoken with a lot of these older americans who are saying well i used to be able

to get through to Social Security in 15 minutes about a concern with my benefits. Now I'm on the phone for four or five hours.
We are hearing from a lot of people who are concerned about the future of Social Security. Will I continue getting the same allocation that I'm getting right now? And then you have just in general, a lot of older Americans are working later.

So they're living longer, but they're also having to work a lot longer. We are seeing some pushes right now among some representatives in Congress to potentially even push back the retirement age from 67 to 69 or 70.
So there's definitely a lot of fear that a lot of older Americans have, that they will need to keep working or they'll have to work until their 70s to supplement Social Security. What are you looking for to better understand how this economy is impacting older Americans? So we're looking at a lot of factors right now, a lot of indicators.
The main thing that we're currently looking at is asset prices. A lot of older Americans and a lot of retirees who have a lot of equity in their homes and their home is essentially their retirement.
This is a lot of money for some people. It's six, seven figures worth of retirement money.

And if a lot of their equity goes down, if the housing market kind of collapses a little bit, that will get messed up for a lot of people.

And it's hard for older Americans to downsize as well because there's not a lot of houses on the market right now that are selling for affordable rights.

With inflation, there's many different ways of analyzing it. There's a measure that we use called the Alice Essentials Index.
Asset limited, income constrained, employed. They look specifically at what's considered an essential.
So grocery costs, for example, or housing, other sorts of medical expenses. This is what people need to survive.
So this is a very interesting metric that we use to look at, well, okay, how is inflation impacting the person who is 75 and still working and is very cautious about their spending? And it's indicative that inflation is rising a little bit more for some of those essentials than it is for some of the other goods that they might not be purchasing on a daily basis. For those that are panicking, are they panicking unnecessarily? Do they need to be this concerned? I don't think that there's really a type of unnecessary panic.
There's a lot of change happening right now. There's a lot of uncertainty occurring right now.
And people have lost a lot of money. When the S&P is down 10 plus percent this year, that's a lot of money that older Americans were relying on.
It's a little scary for a lot of people. This is a lot of money that people were banking on,

and they don't know if they should be tapping into their 401ks. They don't know if they should

be relying more on other sorts of income, and then they won't touch their 401k.

So it's definitely all very valid. But I also think some of them are a little bit misguided, especially because Social Security benefits have not been cut.
They have not cut Medicaid yet. They have not touched Medicare yet.
We just don't know what will happen. And we have been hearing from a lot of financial experts who this is their job.
They speak with people who have been doing this for 30, 40 years. And they say, you should stay tight.
Hang on. And don't do anything too drastic that you may regret later.
OK, so don't do anything you would regret. Easier said than done though.
So how can you prepare

for the worst case scenario? I'm going to ask one of my favorite personal finance columnists

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I am punching a lot of pillows and doing a little cussing.

We're back. It's Explain It To Me.
And I'm here now with Michelle Singletary, personal finance columnist with The Washington Post. Are you a baby boomer? Yeah.
I mean, like many people, I'm stressed to the max. You know, I've got a couple of years or so before I was thinking, okay, maybe I will retire.
So I still have about three or four years before I have that serious conversation with myself. My husband, however, is retired and has been since 2023.
So we're looking at his retirement account. We're looking at my retirement account.
He's not as stressed as I am because he's always the glass half full kind of person. I'm not only is the glass half empty, it's like it needs another glass with some water.
So very, you know, very concerned because you don't know when the end is near. And that's the issue with retirement planning.
I mean, if we knew when we are going to pass away, if we knew how much health care we would need, if we knew what the housing market would do, we'd be all calm. But it's the unknown.
And so I am punching a lot of pillows and crying and screaming and doing a little cussing. But trying to not let the fear dictate moves.
And that's the key. Yeah.
What do you fear that could happen? What's the worst case scenario? Historically, the markets do return eventually. People come back.
The underlying part of America, or the economy is still strong. So it's the fear is how long will it take? And if you have to draw down on your retirement funds, that is what is disconcerting because the balance is lower.
And so you are pulling it out at a time where you're definitely going to lock in recent losses, then that means there'll be less left to grow even when the market returns. When you are retired and drawing on that, that is the fear that you'll have less and you'll have less at a time when you need more, like for healthcare.
Okay. So I was particularly interested in this episode because my parents are boomers.
And, you know, I tend to give that generation a lot of grief. But it does come from a place of love.
You know, what advice do you have for listeners who are like me, where you want to be able to help the older people in your life, whether that's with advice or anything else? Well, it's understandable that you're concerned about your parents. And also lots of parents, you know, you don't necessarily want to reveal everything, especially if you're feeling bad that you don't have enough money.
But I think this is a good opportunity to have open conversations. How do you recommend that listeners start that conversation with the retirement age folks in their lives? Just, you know, like the next time you say, hey, you know, I'd love to talk to you about this because I'm a little worried.
You know, I'm saving for retirement and this is what's concerning me. And then you say, how about you? What you don't want to do is like, do you have any money? What's going on? You don't want to come at them in a more adversarial way.
Or as I said, you don't want to come out like you're now the parent. You should see each other as companions and accountability partners and come at them saying, I want to help you if you're concerned because I'm concerned.

And so you make it more like you're going to be working at this together. Because if you find it that they are or they were not ready, that you have to be sure that you have secured your finances

so that if you have to step up to help, there are some resources there to help them. What should people prioritize when they look at their finances? I think right now in this moment, cash is king.
I would be stockpiling cash in a high yield savings account in case you lose your job, in case the economy really does go into a recession, if it gets worse than it is now. I don't want to panic people, although it's perfectly fine if you're scared because that's just human nature.
But I will say the prudent thing right now is to say, don't go into any kind of debt or use a lot of cash that you might need if you lose your job. Now, my husband and I are not in that situation, but we did pull back on a major home improvement project that we were going to do just to see how things shake out.
That's the kind of conversation you should be having with yourself. But if you're not on a budget right now, you need to get on a budget yesterday.
What advice do you have for people who are at retirement age, but haven't been able to save as much? Is there anything they can do to play catch up? Yeah, the first thing I would say is don't beat yourself up. You know, you are where you are and accept that, but do something about it.
So if you're getting close to retirement, are you about that? Or a time where you think, then you've got to make some hard decisions. Are you ready to retire? You might say, I wanted to retire at 62.
I'm going to retire no matter what. Well, you can't retire at 62.
You don't have enough. Many people work into their late 60s and 70s and 80s.
So if that's you, that might be what you have to do. And or you look at your housing situation, because aside from some of your other bills, housing is the biggest part of your budget.
So you might have to say, you know what, those young adults that was asking me about my money, maybe I have to move in with them or they move in with me. So you've got to look at the big ticket items and then you make decisions by that.
So let's say you're near retirement, but you can't work anymore. You're not healthy.
Then you look at collecting Social Security a little earlier. Are there resources available for people who don't have as much saved? So two places I really recommend people to go.
First of all, it's AARP. They have a whole section on their website for retiring, retiring in place, long-term care information, how to do your estate planning.
And then also your local aging office has a tremendous amount of resources for those who may not have enough, who have housing insecurity or food insecurity. And then hopefully you're connected to some community group, whether it's through your faith or some other group.
Get connected in your community because there are some resources that can help you, but you won't know if you're not connected. Financial advice can admittedly be a little frustrating because I think we hear the same thing over and over again, you know, like sit tight, stay the course, don't make any rash decisions.
What do you say to people who feel antsy right now, who want a different answer than what they usually hear? So this happens a lot. People want, they ask you a question and they really have already made up their mind.
They want you to co-sign on a bad situation. Listen, good advice is good advice no matter what.
And people want a microwave answer to a problem that need to be baked in the oven. And so you can't microwave your way away from situations like we're going right now.
You just can't. We know by history, that's how we look at things.
You know, the market eventually returns historically. Could it change in the future? Sure it can.
But we have decades and decades of data that show that when we go into an economic downturn, we come out. It's in everybody's interest that that happens.
And you have to feel what you need to feel. I will not tell you not to panic when the market goes down.
I will not tell you that because it is human to be mad and angry and upset and scared.

Be all of those.

Just don't make decisions in that moment.

So depending on a lot of different factors, some of us may be in the workforce longer than we anticipated.

Or we may have to go back on the job market after we've left it.

How can generations work together in the workplace? Stay tuned. The regular season is in the rear view, and now it's time for the games that matter the most.
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A surprising amount of just being alive in 2025 means interacting with devices and platforms. And this week on The Verge Cast, we talk about a lot of devices and a lot of platforms.
We talk about YouTube, which just turned 20, and what it means that it is essentially the whole entertainment industry in one platform. We talk about Google and Meta, which are both on trial to see if their platforms are going to be broken up.
We talk about your phone and what it means that there is this one device that has all of your most personal information on it that someone at the border can just look at. All that and lots more on The Verge Cast, wherever you get podcasts.
Boomersks, but we also got a call from Marsha in Oklahoma who had another kind of concern about her generation. So I am about to turn 70 and was requested to apply for and hired for a job of some significance, I think.
And prior to this, I've always been one who thought by the age of 70, you were irrelevant in the workplace. So what I'm interested in hearing is how does the workforce do boomers in the workplace? And what are some of the annoyances that somebody my age or the boomer generation should be sensitive to in the workplace? Thanks very much.
This is Marcia. Our producer Gabrielle called Marcia back to hear more about her new job working for the city of Tulsa.
Did you start the job? I did, yeah. I mean, I'm just days away from 70 years old, so I just still felt like I had something to give.
And I still do today. It's everything.
The way it works is so interesting to me. What were you worried about going into this job with regards to working with people who were younger? I think I was worried about walking in and then thinking, what could this old person possibly have to contribute?

You know what I mean?

Oh, I'm like, don't talk about Marsha that way.

I just wondered if today's workforce,

which certainly in this administration where I'm working is skis younger,

which is great,

what feelings they harbor about having to carry older workers on their shoulders. That's a great question.
And it shows great self-awareness and humility. My initial reaction is, don't be too worried.
We posed Marsha's question to Professor Bobby Duffy. He lives across the pond where he studies generational differences at the Policy Institute at King's College London.
There is definitely a more general perception that boomers are generally greedy. The kind of theme is a sense of selfishness.
And for the younger generations, like Gen Z... The most entitled generation, the most difficult generation in the workplace, that they can't be bothered to check emails, having breakdowns about the difficulty of a nine-to-five job.
You can go all the way back to the Industrial Revolution, where things were changing fast, and there was a sense that younger generations had a better understanding of the technology that was coming through. Older generations were becoming a bit

obsolete. But I think it's worse today in many ways because we also do have a much more stereotypical

view through our social media and media environment of what are the very exaggerated

view of the differences between the generations or the characters of individual generations. You studied how much these stereotypes hold up in reality.
What data were you collecting and where from? What I do is I look at very long-term surveys going back to 50s and 60s. So really big studies like the General Social Survey of the US, massive annual study that gives you like measures of all different aspects of attitudes and behaviors.
And the key thing is to do it over a long enough term so you can see that this is something to do with this particular generation being different.

Did you find that these generational stereotypes hold up to reality?

No. Very often they don't at all.

The gap between young and old today is very similar to the gap between young and old in the past.

So baby boomers were also much more

comfortable with different changing social norms when they were young compared to their parents and grandparents. In fact, when I look across decades of this data, there is no particularly big divide between young and old today compared to the past, although it feels like that partly because our media or social media really emphasize and exaggerate the differences between the generations.
Who does that myth-making serve? It kind of refers back to, firstly, the change in our information environment, and particularly in media and social media. Boomers really are the most out of touch and entitled generation there is and it's not even close.
Sick day. Okay, you don't sound terrible.
Do you mind just turning on your camera so I can see that you're actually sick? I think that context of we've created this information environment where these are shorthand labels for stereotypes. It does get, does imbue itself into our general understanding of these generations and that leaks into the workplace.
Gen Z at work. Of course I'm closing my laptop at 5pm on the dot.
I'm a Gen Z Incorporate. What do you mean what is a mental health day? Figure it out because I'm taking one a month.
Sorry. I just worked eight hours and you expect me to go make dinner right now? But then I think there's an important second element to this is that people can make money out of these divides.
And you can see, you know, on LinkedIn, there are people who call themselves millennial consultants. This vast swathe of the population that they have particular insight in.

So it's kind of creating a problem to solve the problem and charge you for it. Are there benefits you've found to intergenerational workplaces? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think this is a growing area of study and interest because there are some great examples of individual organisations setting in place schemes that deliberately bring different generations together around a particular problem or strategy or open up competitions across generations. And you can see that those organisations who start to do those types of things end up being more innovative, coming up with more ideas, they're more resilient and adaptable.
And I think the key to that is connecting people, getting over those stereotypes. And the only way to get over those stereotypes and think of each other as assets to the business is to have more contact.
Do you have any practical tips for baby boomers who are navigating intergenerational workplaces? And especially for those who maybe were like, stopped working, now they're back, or, you know, it's like, okay, I'm going to have to work a little longer. I'm going to be with people who are younger than me.
How should they navigate that? Yeah, I think the first bit of the tips on this, I think, is to not be overly worried about the difference, that people aren't as different as the stereotypes that you'll have seen. Then the second point is that we are living much more separately across the generations than we have at any point in human history.

We've kind of sorted young people into cities,

older people outside.

We've got digital lives where different generations are doing very different things on different platforms

to different intensities.

So the workplace is one of the few places

where we're pushed together.

Connections across the generations

benefit both the older and the younger side of that equally. That makes me feel much better, actually.
Oh, really? Yeah. We shared what we learned from Professor Bobby with Marsha.
So, like, while you were talking, you said the word resilience. I immediately jumped on that word because in like in group think sort of discussions, it sort of feels like the millennials have these what they believe are these fresh, new, great ideas that boomers have probably sort of seen in some fashion.
and so if the boomer speaks up against them that it's like we're afraid to try new things

but the truth is if you have the right collaboration And so if the boomer speaks up against them, that it's like we're afraid to try new things.

But the truth is, if you have the right collaboration, what we've learned from maybe doing it and not doing it right the first time, taking their idea and our maybe known pitfalls is where the resilience of something good, you know, can come out of it.

How is it going so far?

Like how is working with your younger colleagues? It's great. I don't want to be part of, if a group of them goes for a happy hour, I don't want to be and don't feel like I need to be part of that because they kind of gather at my desk in the mornings to kind of set the day off.
And I get to hear about the evening before anyway. So I like that.
Because I feel like they're wanting to share it with me without me having to, you know, have been there. So, so far, really, it's good.
And I'm more relaxed than I thought I was. But I do want to remain self-aware.
I don't want to fall into a trap and be a stumbling block. So far, I don't regret it one bit.
well thank you so much for calling in and good luck with your new job. Thank you so much.
I appreciate it. Thanks to everyone who called in to share your experiences for this episode.
Coming up, we're doing an episode about personal style. why it's so hard to figure out what to wear and what not to wear and where to even start when it comes to developing your style.
Are you trying to find it? Or have you already figured it out? If you did, how'd you do it? Give us a call and leave us a message. Our number is 1-800-618-8545.
This episode was produced by Gabrielle Burbay and Carla Javier, who also runs our show.

It was edited by our executive producer, Miranda Kennedy.

Melissa Hirsch, check the facts.

Andrea Kristen's daughter and Patrick Boyd, mixed and engineered.

And I'm John Fullen Hill.

Talk to you soon.

Bye.