Plastic rain, plastic rain

Speaker 2 It's springtime. Happy springtime.
Maybe your 401k is looking more like an FMLK. Maybe you're putting those plans to buy a house or a condo on hold.
Maybe you're worried about a recession.

Speaker 2 I certainly am.

Speaker 2 But at least we've got springtime, you guys. You ever go out in the rain in the springtime? Feel a little sense of renewal, humor, all the possibilities ahead.

Speaker 2 Tilt your head back, close your eyes, Andy Dufran style, maybe even open your mouth and take in a few drops of that high-quality H2O.

Speaker 2 Maybe don't do that. It turns out there's plastic in that rain.

Speaker 2 Not like big chunks of plastic. Our old Arch Nemesis micro plastics are in the rain.

Speaker 2 And we are going to explain.

Speaker 4 Support for today's show comes from ATT, the network that helps Americans make connections according to ATT. When you compare, there's no comparison, ATT.

Speaker 4 With a Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. And you get big purchasing power.
So your business can spend more and earn more.

Speaker 4 Capital One, what's in your wallet? Find out more at capital One.com/slash Spark Cash Plus. Terms apply.

Speaker 6 I just want to say one word to you.

Speaker 7 Just one word.

Speaker 6 Yes, sir. Are you listening? Just so you

Speaker 2 today, explained Sean Ramis from here with Benji Jones, environmental correspondent at Vox. And Benji's here to talk about a piece he wrote for Vox on plastic rain.

Speaker 2 But before we get there, Benji, you know, regular listeners of the show will be familiar with microplastics. But for all the irregulars out there, could you just remind them what they are?

Speaker 1 Sean, it's in the name micro. It's just right, it's that easy.
No, yeah, basically, it is really tiny bits of plastic.

Speaker 1 Technically speaking, we're talking about plastic pieces that are less than five millimeters long on like their longest side.

Speaker 1 So it's like half a centimeter, not necessarily invisible, but you can get much, much, much smaller and into like another category called nanoplastics, which are less than one micrometer, which is a millionth of a meter or a thousandth of a millimeter.

Speaker 1 So like they can get very, very, very small. Basically everywhere scientists look on this planet, in our bodies, in animal bodies, we find microplastics.
So they are truly absolutely everywhere.

Speaker 1 And these are like plastic fibers. So like the fibers that make up your nylon or polyester jackets or t-shirts.
They could be broken down pieces of water bottles that have been crushed on highways.

Speaker 1 They could be nurdles, which are like these little pellets that are used to make other things out of plastic. They're like the virgin material used to make plastic.

Speaker 1 So they're like, they're just all over the place.

Speaker 2 And that includes in our rain. Yeah.
Which I didn't know until I read your piece.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So like, on the one hand, microplastics are absolutely everywhere.
So like the fact that it's in the rain is maybe not as surprising.

Speaker 1 But to me, when I was learning about plastic rain, that there is plastic in our rain, it was really shocking to me because it suggests that like plastic is part of our ecosystems.

Speaker 1 It is like as fundamental at this point as like microbes and bacteria. It's just like part of the world that we live in, part of the fiber of the planet.

Speaker 1 And that to me is quite scary and like another level.

Speaker 2 And when you say that it's in our rain, can you just help us understand what exactly that looks like? I mean, can you literally see it?

Speaker 1 More often than not, you can't see it. So these are really, really small particles of plastic.

Speaker 1 And that's because in order for microplastics to get into the rain, they have to be transported by the air. They have to be in the air.

Speaker 1 And so all these sort of invisible pieces of plastic are in the rain falling down.

Speaker 1 And there are a handful of studies that have found plastic in rainfall all over the world and in some like kind of scary quantities too. Hmm.

Speaker 2 Like how much?

Speaker 1 Yeah. So the study that I was like, okay, I need to write about this

Speaker 1 was

Speaker 1 a study of rain and dust falling on national parks and wilderness areas in the West. These are like Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, Joshua Tree.

Speaker 1 And these researchers found that the amount of plastic that was falling on these national parks and wilderness areas every year is equivalent to like 120 to 300 million plastic water bottles every year.

Speaker 1 So, like, you see trash when you're hiking through the wilderness, but like there's actually trash like falling from the sky, and it is probably more than the physical pieces that you can actually see.

Speaker 1 It's just like everywhere.

Speaker 2 Everywhere, like, does that mean there's microplastics in the rain in Detroit, Timbuktu, Fiji? Like, is there no place on Earth where you won't encounter microplastics in the rain?

Speaker 2 Or is it, you know, closer to polluted spaces, closer to cities, whatever it might be?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's really everywhere. I mean, Sean, it's in the French Pyrenees.
Like, it's in snowfall, in the like Alps.

Speaker 1 Like, it is is just because there is microplastic in the air, it's able to get all over the world. And so I saw studies in China, India, Europe.

Speaker 1 There are microplastics in the ocean, like tens, if not hundreds of trillions of plastic particles, beach sand all around the world, seafood, which is like, again, it's in the ocean.

Speaker 1 So it's in our fish, it's in our homes, it's in the carpets, plastic fibers, et cetera. It's in snow in Antarctica.
It's in sea ice. It's at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

Speaker 1 One of my favorite studies, but also kind of sad, scientists looked at dolphin breaths, like the size of dolphins, and found microplastics in the breath of these dolphins.

Speaker 1 So, like dolphins are breathing out microplastics.

Speaker 8 This is a microplastic fiber found in dolphin breath, and it's 14 times smaller than a human hair.

Speaker 8 We found it by holding a petri dish over dolphins' blow holes so we can analyze what they breathe out.

Speaker 9 Dolphins are top predators in marine ecosystems, so scientists use them as a way of monitoring the effects of plastic pollution on marine ecosystems and coastal communities.

Speaker 8 Ocean waves are basically plastic confetti machines, and they can launch 100,000 metric tons of plastic into the air every year.

Speaker 1 And then it's also everywhere that we've looked in the human body. So, it's in our blood, it's in our kidneys, it's in our semen, the placenta, and in the human body.

Speaker 1 We're finding microplastics that are so small, these nanoplastics, that they're actually able to cross the blood-brain barrier.

Speaker 1 I mean, one of the big news stories of this year was that scientists found a plastic spoon's worth of microplastics in the human brain, like in an average brain by weight, which is

Speaker 1 terrifying to think about.

Speaker 10 New research at the University of New Mexico finds alarmingly high levels of that plastic in human brains at much higher concentrations compared to the liver and kidney.

Speaker 11 They looked at some individuals with dementia, they had higher levels of microplastics in the brain.

Speaker 12 According to researchers, the amount of microplastics in analyzed brains rose by about 50% from 2016 to 2024.

Speaker 1 This study found that like 99.5% of our brain is brain and the rest is plastic. So like 0.5% of our brain is plastic, which is another way to think about the spoon and scary.

Speaker 1 And it's also like more plastic currently than it was in the past. So like that indicates that with the rise of plastic in the environment, we're seeing a rise of plastic in our heads.

Speaker 1 So that's great.

Speaker 2 Sorry, I didn't hear anything you said. I think I had a seizure from all the plastic in my brain.
And where exactly is it coming from?

Speaker 1 So there's a lot of trash on the side of roads that gets run over by car after car, and then it gets ground up into little pieces.

Speaker 1 They become airborne, and then they get transported everywhere and rained out. You can also have plastic in the ocean getting all the way inland and being rained out on land.

Speaker 1 We know there is a lot of plastic in the ocean, including a lot of microplastics. And even when like bubbles on the surface are popping, they're like flinging microplastics into the air.

Speaker 1 And also, when waves are crashing on the shore, they're causing the microplastics to like become airborne so the oceans are a big source the highways are a big source also tires are a big producer of microplastics as they wear down so like just the tires degrading over time can put microplastics into the air and it's not just plastic that's in our rain it's actually other chemicals like pfas so a bunch of studies have also found these forever chemicals in the rain too so our rain is like quite dirty

Speaker 2 And just for the people out there who are maybe like, yeah, there's plastic in the rain, whatever, there's plastic in my bed, there's plastic in my brain.

Speaker 2 Why do we not want plastic in the rain, Benji?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is like the most important question in my mind is like, is there an actual risk to being exposed to all this plastic that it has many benefits, right? Like we benefit from plastic.

Speaker 1 We're talking on devices made of plastic right now. It's light.
It makes cars less polluting, et cetera.

Speaker 1 Scientists are learning that microplastics in our bodies, which could get there because of what we're drinking and what we're eating, are linked to a number of health concerns like cardiovascular disease, mental issues like dementia.

Speaker 1 So like there is actually quite a long list of health problems that are linked to exposure to microplastics.

Speaker 13 Could it be increasing the risk of stroke or heart attack? Could it be increasing the risk of cancer, inflammatory bowel disease, infertility? So there are any number of things, preterm birth.

Speaker 11 It is thought that it can disrupt your hormones, so it can cause some fertility issues, it can mess with your metabolism, and it can cause neurological issues.

Speaker 1 Part of that is just the physical bit of plastic being in your body.

Speaker 1 It's like this foreign substance that your body is trying to get rid of, and so it's going to have an inflammatory response, which can be bad over time.

Speaker 1 But also, there are a lot of chemicals, there are like hundreds, if not thousands, of chemicals used in plastics, and those chemicals, like phthalates, which make plastic bendy, are also associated with other issues like hormone disruption and fertility issues.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I would say it is pretty fair to say that there are health problems linked to all this exposure. That personally makes me worried.

Speaker 2 Personally, but you're also worried for like your fellow human.

Speaker 1 Oh, I don't care about anybody else.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I am worried. And like, we do have chronic illness problems in the U.S.
in countries all over the world.

Speaker 1 Like, we know that chronic disease is getting worse over time in terms of like how many people have it. And I think that we should be looking at things like the spread of microplastics.

Speaker 2 Well, Benji, is there anything we can do about it?

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, I mean, it's really easy to just feel kind of hopeless.
And I do at times personally, but I like to look back at history and other environmental problems that we actually solved.

Speaker 1 So there are examples of problems. So like the ozone layer, that big giant hole in the ozone that was letting all this harmful solar radiation in.

Speaker 1 We like are on track to close that through regulations. And then more relevant to this conversation is acid rain.

Speaker 1 So, like, in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, acid rain was a huge environmental problem, talked about by like congressmen, the public, etc.

Speaker 1 And we pretty much fixed that. I mean, it's not fixed everywhere, but like you don't really hear about acid rain anymore, and that's because it doesn't really exist, especially in the developed world.

Speaker 2 Let's drop some acid when we return on Today Explained.

Speaker 1 Fun

Speaker 4 Support for Today Explained comes from Indeed. Indeed says if you're looking to hire, you can give your job posting the best chance to be seen with Indeed-sponsored jobs.

Speaker 4 With sponsored jobs, Indeed, boost your post so that it is more visible. Their data shows it's effective.

Speaker 4 According to Indeed, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than those non-sponsored jobs because you reach a bigger pool of people.

Speaker 4 1.6 million companies sponsor jobs with Indeed. You can spend more time interviewing candidates, less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed sponsored jobs.

Speaker 4 Listeners of this show get a $75 sponsored job credit. To help your job get the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash today explained, indeed.com slash today explained.

Speaker 4 Support our show by saying you've heard about Indeed on this podcast, Today Explained, Indeed.com slash Today Explained. Terms and conditions do apply, guys.
Hiring. Do it the right way with Indeed.

Speaker 4 Support for Today Explain comes from ATT. There's nothing worse than needing to make a call and realizing you can't connect, says ATT.

Speaker 4 And of course, every wireless provider will claim that they're the best, but ATT says ATT has the goods to back it up. According to Root Metrics, ATT earned the best overall network performance.

Speaker 4 While the other guys are busy making claims they can't keep, ATT says they're making connections on America's fastest and most reliable wireless network.

Speaker 4 No matter if you're at a concert, a huge sporting event, or just out enjoying nature, you can post when you want to post. Don't post when you're enjoying nature, guys.
Keep it in control.

Speaker 4 Call when you want to call and rest easy knowing that no matter where you go, AT ⁇ T has got you covered. When you compare, there's no comparison.
ATT.

Speaker 4 Based on Route Metrics, United States Route Score Report 1H2025 tested with best commercially available smartphones, smartphones on three national mobile networks across all available network types.

Speaker 4 Your experiences may vary. Root Metrics rankings are not an endorsement of ATT.

Speaker 4 Support for Today Explained comes from QIIME. What's QIIME? QIIME is different.

Speaker 4 QIIME is a financial technology company that wants you to embrace each and every dollar when you set up direct deposit with QIIME.

Speaker 4 You can get access to fee-free features like overdraft protection, or they say you can get paid up to two days early and even more.

Speaker 4 Speaking of no fees, QIIME says that when you open a checking account with them, there are no monthly fees and no maintenance fees.

Speaker 4 And with qualifying direct deposits, you can be eligible for free overdraft up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals. Not to mention, although I will, 47,000 fee-free ATMs.

Speaker 4 You can work on your financial goals through Chime today. You can open an account in two minutes at chime.com slash explain.
That's chime.com slash explain. Chime feels like progress.

Speaker 14 Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bankor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA.
Members of FDIC.

Speaker 14 Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file.
Fees apply at out of network ATMs, bank ranking, and number of ATMs, according to U.S.

Speaker 14 and World Report 2023. Chime checking account required.

Speaker 2 Today, Explain back with Benji Jones, who's going to tell us how we fixed acid rain. Is that what we did, Benji?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to go and say we have mostly fixed acid rain. Huh?

Speaker 2 And remind us what the problem was.

Speaker 1 Okay, so acid rain, rain that is slightly acidic,

Speaker 1 like several times more acidic than regular rain. Probably not like pure lemon juice, but maybe like lemonade or something slightly diluted.

Speaker 1 And the rain was largely acidic because of a handful of gases. So sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, which is nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide.

Speaker 1 And these were gases largely emitted by coal power plants and the tailpipes of cars.

Speaker 15 In our time, acid rain has become a subject of international concern and scientific research.

Speaker 16 Acid rain looks, feels, and smells like any other rain. But the water in acid rain carries poisons like sulfuric acid.

Speaker 16 That acid and its effects have been blamed for killing fish and plant life in hundreds of lakes in the northeastern United States and Canada.

Speaker 7 Our Canadian neighbors to the north are becoming impatient to a point where U.S.-Canada relations are more strained than ever.

Speaker 7 At the center of this irritant is the acid rain problem, one that has no respect for international boundaries.

Speaker 1 And as all this acidic rain was falling, we started to see impacts from that. So, like, I don't know, maybe you've seen the photos of statues that look like they're kind of melted.

Speaker 1 But we also saw like forests starting to collapse, fish die in lakes in the Adirondacks. So it was like a human problem and an environmental problem.

Speaker 2 And then we did something about it?

Speaker 1 Yes, we did. The U.S.
in 1990 passed amendments to the Clean Air Act, which is like the seminal regulation in the U.S.

Speaker 1 to clean up the air that started to limit the amount of sulfur dioxide that coal power plants were able to produce.

Speaker 3 This bill will cut emissions that cause acid rain in half and permanently cap them. at these new levels.

Speaker 1 And also around the same time, catalytic converters were becoming a big thing. Those reduce emissions and tailpipes.

Speaker 1 And so you started to see these regulations limiting the amount of pollution coming from these important sources like coal and cars. And as a result, we saw acid rain start to decline.
Huh.

Speaker 2 Did anyone like celebrate it? Was there like a day where we said we did it, guys? We beat acid rain?

Speaker 1 I didn't come across anyone being like, congratulations, we fixed this.

Speaker 1 I think like when regulations work, they don't maybe get the attention they deserve.

Speaker 2 Let's take a moment now on the show to just celebrate that we at least for now managed to beat acid rain

Speaker 1 but i should also just say so like some places like oh no are you gonna caveat it oh oh always come on okay great there are some places around the world that still have a lot of coal energy like china and india and you will still see acid rain there actually saw like a headline about the taj mahal being like affected by acid rain like eroding the surface of the the Taj Mahal.

Speaker 1 So, like, some parts of the world still deal with slightly acidic rain because they have emissions from these fossil fuels.

Speaker 1 But, in general, especially in wealthier parts of the world, we are not getting rained on by acid, which is great.

Speaker 2 I mean, no, biggie. There was like another Taj Mahal in New Jersey at some point, right? They'll just make another one.

Speaker 17 Amidst great hoop law, this week, Donald Trump is opening his $1 billion Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City. Some economists call it a reckless gamble.

Speaker 2 Can we apply any of the learnings from how we, at least in some places in the world, defeated Acid Rain to this plastic rain, plastic rain situation we've got currently all over the world?

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, great question.

Speaker 1 So I think in some ways the plastic problem is worse because plastic stays around forever, like decades, centuries, really hard to get rid of once it's in the environment. PFAS, same story.

Speaker 1 But, but, but, and this is my rare bout of hope, which is that we learned from acid rain, from the ozone hole that when we as a species, humans, governments want to solve a problem, want to solve an environmental problem, we do it.

Speaker 1 There was public outcry around acid rain. We fixed it largely.
And so I think that is a lesson in like, this is a question about will. Do we have the will to get rid of plastics?

Speaker 1 And do we have the regulations in place to do so?

Speaker 1 And that is the other kind of important takeaway, which is that when you have major industries that are benefiting from this incredible amount of plastic flowing into the environment, we need to often create regulations that are tamping down on that supply of plastic.

Speaker 1 Do we have any of those?

Speaker 1 Well, I don't think folks who follow the plastic conversation closely are very hopeful about... the current administration.

Speaker 1 As you may have seen, Trump is trying to bring back plastic straws.

Speaker 18 Oh, yeah. We're going back to plastic straws.
These things don't work.

Speaker 1 He seems to be passionately against paper straws, which, like, okay, there's some merit to that.

Speaker 18 I've had them many times, and on occasion, they break, they explode. If something's hot, they don't last very long, like a matter of minutes, sometimes a matter of seconds.

Speaker 18 It's a ridiculous situation.

Speaker 2 Though that one seemed to have unified left and right.

Speaker 18 He is right on this one.

Speaker 18 those straws are

Speaker 1 terrible yeah it is it is true i mean no one no one wants that dissolving paper straw i i think it's overblown personally i've had like compostable straws that work just fine i want to say but you're also famously anti-plastic famously everyone knows about that

Speaker 16 i hate plastic

Speaker 1 Anyway, so like, right, are we going to see regulations in this administration to start limiting plastic when the president is so pro-oil and gas, which is the same industry as the plastic industry.

Speaker 18 We will drill, baby, drill.

Speaker 1 I think probably not. I will say though, and this is something fairly hopeful: there is a global effort right now to create a plastic treaty involving over 100 countries.

Speaker 1 So, countries around the world are trying to create a global agreement to reduce plastic waste.

Speaker 1 That could include things like a cap on the production of plastic, bans on certain types of single-use plastics, and also best practices for companies that are producing plastic for end of life.

Speaker 1 So like better recycling and so forth. So there are efforts at the global scale to fix the plastic problem.
They're ongoing. There's like some roadblocks, but it's happening.

Speaker 1 And so I think that is something that is worth celebrating should it come to pass.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you're saying fixing the plastic rain problem is really just fixing the plastic problem.

Speaker 2 But then you were also saying that like it's in our tires and the tires are on the road and it's just constantly getting in the air.

Speaker 1 that just feels like unwieldy yeah i mean i think this is a situation where like we need to focus on getting rid of the plastics that are not as essential like we can acknowledge the fact that tires are useful um i mean we can probably make tires that are not like wearing away and filling the air with microplastics but like in general tire is good i think like getting plastic cutlery with takeout every time probably pretty easy to get rid of like we don't really need plastic straws like use seaweed or whatever whatever the fuck

Speaker 1 to make straws not disintegrate. It's fine.
Like, we are innovative. We don't need to be, this is not a problem.

Speaker 1 So, I think being clear about what the like priority plastics are that we should get rid of is a way to like make this problem not seem so overwhelming.

Speaker 2 You know, Benji, a former colleague of ours, Jerusalem Dempsis, I saw recently on our cursed shared social media platform, she wrote something like, I need everyone to stop talking to me about micro plastics.

Speaker 2 I don't care.

Speaker 2 Do you think at all in an era where people have bigger problems, be they, I don't know, their 401k evaporating into the air, it's hard to care about the microplastics that are evaporating into the air?

Speaker 2 Do you think this is too low on the priority list that it's raining plastic?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's totally fair to not care about this. Like, I am writing about the climate crisis, extinction crisis, like every week.
And so I get it.

Speaker 1 Like I don't want another problem in my life. But there are also fairly simple things we can do as individuals on like a day-to-day level that help us reduce our own exposure.

Speaker 1 Like I don't want to get sick. I don't want to have chronic illness.
So like I'm going to filter my water, for example.

Speaker 1 That is what I like about this topic, which is that there are things you can do. And so like the headline is limit plastic that you're exposed to, obviously.
Plastic Tupperware, don't use it.

Speaker 1 Use glass, especially if you microwave in it.

Speaker 1 Dust is full of microplastic. So clean up after yourself.
Use vacuums, et cetera. Avoid polyester and nylon clothing.
If you can afford like cotton, it's more comfortable, I think.

Speaker 1 Some people avoid sea salt because it comes from the sea and there's like plastic in the sea.

Speaker 2 Avoid sea salt? That one breaks my heart. I didn't know about that one.
Dang it. But then it's like, don't eat fish either because they're also from the sea.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like that is like performative if you're not eating sea salt. Like, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's like the whole question about using plastic cutting boards to like, you're not ingesting like a credit card's worth of plastic by using a plastic cutting board.

Speaker 2 News you can use. Benji Jones Vox, thank you so much.
Thank you, Sean.

Speaker 2 BenjiJonesvox.com. You can read his piece there.
It's called, We Got Rid of Acid Rain, Now Something Scarier is Falling From the Sky.

Speaker 2 Abhishai artsy produced today's show fearlessly jolie myers edited andrea christen's daughter and patrick boyd mixed miles bryan check the facts this is the rain explained

Speaker 2 grain,

Speaker 2 plastic grain

Speaker 2 plastic,

Speaker 2 plastic rain.

Speaker 2 I only

Speaker 2 wanna see you dancing in the plastic rain.

Speaker 19 Time. It's always vanishing.
The commute, the errands, the work functions, the meetings, selling your car?

Speaker 19 Unless you sell your car with Carvana.

Speaker 5 Get a real offer in minutes.

Speaker 19 Get it picked up from your door. Get paid on the spot.

Speaker 5 So fast you'll wonder what the catch is. There isn't one.

Speaker 19 We just respect you and your time.

Speaker 5 Oh, you're still here. Move along now.
Enjoy your day. Sell your car today.

Speaker 14 Carvana.

Speaker 19 Pickup fees may apply.

Speaker 20 Support for this show comes from Capital One.

Speaker 3 With the Venture X business card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. Plus, the VentureX Business Card has no preset spending limit.

Speaker 3 So your purchasing power can adapt to meet your business needs.

Speaker 20 Capital One. What's in your wallet?