Vigorous Steve: How To Master Bodybuilding PED’s & Pharmacology of Today

What's up?

What's up, bro?

What's up, man?

My great anabolic father.

What's up, bro?

Good, man.

Let me turn off the volume a little bit.

How's my audio and stuff?

Is it good?

Yeah, you sound awesome.

Cool.

You sound better than 90% of the other people that I have video calls with.

I'm a YouTuber like yourself, man.

I know the game.

You gotta look good.

You got a nice fresh shirt.

Meow.

Yeah, it's inspired.

Meow, bitches.

And

I got the most expensive microphone I could find and a good camera with automatic color correction.

So I'm ready to roll, man.

Well, dude, I mean, it seems like everything they've been doing is clearly right.

Because looking through this QA, there's a lot more personal questions than there used to be.

Like people are asking you about the Netherlands and Thailand and your cigars and all this shit.

Oh, really?

People are following along the story, bro.

That's funny.

Any questions about shit fluencers?

Like other influencers?

Just gonna skip over those.

The last time the tail stubbed me.

What do you think about this guy?

I'm sure there's probably gonna be a few in here.

Ooh, how many

lady boys?

That's crazy.

All right.

I'm down for that.

Well, I'm down for that.

Try everything once.

Hey, this is my third appearance, right?

Am I now a transparent celebrity?

Yeah, 100%.

I think you

feel special, man.

Thank you.

Record for the most times coming on.

Yes.

Hell yes.

How's it going with you, man?

You moved in with your girlfriend and moved houses and what's going on?

Yeah, I'm

growing up now, man.

It's kind of crazy.

It's weird.

Such a great realization.

I think you look back at your life, said,

I live in a house with a nice girl.

She's really hot and we're in a relationship and i'm well respected in the community and saying what the hell happened

where are my party days where are my parties yeah

go buck wild and then come home all up and yeah those days are over at one point man

yeah for sure um i'm now that i'm uh working with patrick tour too it's even harder for me to kind of go a little crazy especially on food so oh yeah those guys are very serious you know i mean they're they're pro yeah they're pro level man They're on top of your ass all the time.

Can't slack.

That's why I don't have a coach.

So I can slack all day and get a nice puffy face.

My Cheesecake Factory yesterday was great.

Fire.

Yeah.

I mean, you still look crazy for everything you've been doing.

Plus, I tried.

Also, congratulations on the

potential news.

Potential, yeah.

So Wednesday she was due, and we were just patiently waiting.

Like, she could literally walk in right now and say, yeah, my water broke.

We got to bounce.

But then, uh, yeah, I'll have to take the car in the middle of the night.

But so far, so far, we're just patiently waiting.

I think, I think our daughter is very comfortable in

the womb, and it might take a few more days.

People love the HD quality.

Oh, yeah.

The more HD, the better, man.

Then you can see all my pimples and wrinkles.

You're still getting really HD.

You get this little groove there.

You got a pimple here.

And,

you know, whatever you can get away with, man.

Yeah, bro.

So I was thinking,

I mean, I was thinking today, I mean, there's a lot of things we could honestly talk about.

I feel like every time I talk with you, I could talk with you for hours.

But plus, there's a fluck on the Q ⁇ As anyways.

But

I've been enjoying just throwing out and discussing theories with people because, you know, we don't really have

case studies when it comes to...

actual competing in bodybuilding.

I think over the course of the last year or two, my audience has slowly transformed transformed a little bit to more of a competitive

audience, maybe.

Well, that's the guest that you have on, right?

You have a lot of competitive bodybuilders on.

Steve Kuko was just on.

Wesley Visors was a great podcast, by the way.

Thanks for watching.

Yeah, just watched it today.

That was good.

So basically, whatever guests you have on, that's what you attract.

And then I don't know what I bring to the table, but it's probably all the PD

connoisseurs that will come over after this podcast.

Like, hey,

Mel also talks about it and it's called transparent this podcast must be about drugs

it's always cool though to to hear even when I'm talking with other competitors there they're always bringing your name up too though so I think it's pretty

I think it's pretty integrated at this point that you are a name in the community and that you've uh I think so brought through like a lot of great value man I get a lot of DMs

I get a lot of DMs of competitors.

And it's good to see.

I mean, you know, with the anabolic roundtable, with me and Dean and Kurt bring to the table, it's slowly being adopted.

So you see people being healthier and making better decisions regarding their oxidative stress.

I know you just had Dean on talking about oxidative stress and mitochondrial function.

So it's good that it's slowly being adopted.

And then at one point, you know, it will just be the norm.

And then people only not only look into anabolics, but also looking into, you know, stuff to stay healthy and stay productive.

Because when you compare now to the 90s, like all those 90s bodybuilders were all brain dead.

And you remember on the battle for the Olympia and

some of the shows where they had at the Olympia, the press conference, they're all like,

no idea what they're talking about.

And now everybody's super fresh and relaxed.

and

highly productive and very well you know entrepreneur and business mindset and i think we had a little bit of something to do with that it's of course coaching is involved.

So they, you know, they drive you down hard and then they slowly kind of land the plane instead of crashing you at the end with all kinds of crazy drugs and depletion protocols.

So it's good that it's changing.

I'm happy that me and other educators and basically everybody's making such a good leap forward to improve the fitness industry and that everybody can benefit from that.

And I think I'm one of the guys that helps with that.

Not the only one, obviously, but one of the guys.

Yeah.

I agree.

I agree as well.

I actually have,

that brings me to this question I want to ask you, but before I do

something that's kind of related.

What did you think about Nihat?

When he gets Olympia, you know, Nihat.

Have you seen?

Okay, so

let me see if I can find.

Am I out of loop?

I feel like you've had to see him.

So

what's Nihat's last name?

I don't even know if I'm saying it right now.

Where do you compete in China?

In Dubai.

Kaya.

What's up?

In Dubai.

Yeah.

212.

212 Kai.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He looks good.

Yeah, yeah.

Kid's 22 years old.

Oh, wow.

And I don't know.

I've been following him for the last couple of years.

And I got to be real.

I think he's probably one of my favorite bodybuilders

of all right now.

He's got a crazy physique.

I just don't understand how he achieved this at his age.

It's fucking nuts.

I think if you start young and

obviously, you know, this guy with the work ethic and the genetics, you get it with a good coach from the beginning, you can achieve so much.

I've seen it happen with guys that sign up with with me when i was still coaching when they were like 18 and then the first year you kind of put them through the ringer because you don't really want to put them on gear but then they have they really want to go for it and they have such phenomenal work ethic they don't do anything else they're full-time bodybuilders so you sprinkle it all in a little bit and then they mutate you're like fuck right

you know and then you later on you see them really lead reach high levels or they go on social media or whatever so that's that's always good to see and um yeah there's just outliers out there that just I like Lee Priest, for example, just an outlier who got adopted by bodybuilding when it was 13 years old.

And then by the time you're 19, you're a phenom.

Yeah.

You know, so has always been a freak.

I don't know what happened to my career, but

I started at 15, but I never turned to a freak.

Well, you didn't even start gear until you were way older, though, right?

20s, late 20s?

Okay, exactly.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too.

I was even starting.

I don't think I started my first actual real bulking cycle till after 25 also so yeah hey you were talking

only right

only oral

sounds so bad out of context I feel like uh

I remember we were discussing this in the last podcast and I know this is a little controversial but I think even though I like to push that that you know don't to you know to people that because there's also natural

There's natural people in my audience as well.

You know, as much as I want to be a good example and be like, you know, don't start gear so early, especially if you don't know if you want to do it for sure.

I really do agree with you that the guys that really, really want to make it to the top, that have that discipline to do what you were saying from 18 years old are the ones that are probably going to do the best, or at least they're just going to have this amazing, phenomenal, young look, but insane.

And you just tolerate more.

Your body is so much more resilient.

Like when you look back.

Yeah, physically as well.

I could have started gear when I was 21, but I should have done that under the guidance of a coach.

Like when you're 21, you think you know, but you don't know, let's be honest.

And when I started at 26, I thought I knew, but I didn't know compared to now.

So like if you're young, you have a little bit of disposable income, $350 to $500 for a coach and he's willing to help you and make you does the blood work and you prove yourself that you're a full-time bodybuilder and you don't go.

you know, drinking and recreational drugs and partying and all that kind of stuff.

Maybe once in a while, once every six months, okay, but it doesn't detract from your bodybuilding journey.

I'm not against it, man.

Honestly, I'm not against it.

What I am against, you see 16, 17, 18 years old going on SARMs-only cycles, understanding their ramifications, and then saying that they're natural on Instagram and then trying to create a following of, you know, gullible

peers of their age group,

selling foam rollers and

pre-workouts.

I'm not really for that.

But if you're 21 and you've been doing this for a while or 18 and you get a coach under good guidance, I mean, Kyle Wilkes,

you know, I mean, he coaches all these young teens and early 20-year-old guys.

I think Nick Walker is his oldest client.

Oh, yeah, you're Kyle, right, for a while.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he put all these guys on, I think they're pretty healthy from what I understand.

You know, some of them probably push a little bit harder than what they admit to Kyle, but that's the age.

I'm not running training the offseason, but they are running training the offseason.

I mean, fuck, we got to train twins for fuck's sake.

Say what they're doing.

so all right i'm not against it but yeah you really got to live the lifestyle if you do do it and let's be honest 99 of the kids do not live the lifestyle they go on a tick tock challenge and then you know it ends badly yeah so so like when you have social media to pressure me at that age right

i feel like especially when it comes to diet too you can just i see a lot of younger people just smashing just those fucking double doubles and the goodness of getting it now i was so serious with my diet when I was younger, man.

Like since 15, 16 years old, I started cooking my own meals.

It's only after 40 that I became a little bit more lax

because now I can, now I have the means to just go out to dinner all the time and go to steak restaurants and stuff.

Back then, I had no money, right?

So all you do is they spend it on whey protein and supplements to get gains.

And now I have the gains and the money.

So I'm like, ah, you know, this weekend I'm going to eat some fucking cheesecake.

It's chilling the fuck out.

Yeah.

The younger body definitely though is just just so much more like what is the word

like a rubber ball viable yeah resilient yeah you can just get away with more dude i i remember just working all week or going to school and then doing like night shift work and then going partying in the weekend and somehow i was able to go to the gym five times a week as well and i would all make it fit if i think about that now i'm

falling asleep like man how the hell did i do it you know so enjoy it while it lasts man by the time you're 35 40 you got some real responsibilities and it's right.

It's going to be tough.

Now I just like, like, we had a Young Elite party, right?

The Young Elite 2 mil event, like, probably this last weekend or the weekend before, man.

I ended up staying up till like 4 a.m.

I hope you're just transparent.

Like, I'm being completely real.

And I hate to say this because maybe people will call me out.

But, like, obviously, you know, I just started prep.

So I didn't want to drink alcohol, but I had some G,

which does the exact same thing for me in the world.

It's depressive.

And

I,

dude every time every time something like this happens where i stay up too late like for the next like three days straight i'm just deeply depressed yeah like a really immense depression like mental health is just flipped completely the opposite down the drain

it's like almost dangerous i find for myself oh is it that bad so yeah it's really bad for me like sleep and oh and geez and

like with m m and stuff of course it depletes your cell phone levels quite a bit then then man i remember those days That's how I learned about 5-HTP.

You know, 18, you go partying, you take, you know, two, two tabs of M.

And then the next day, you're like, why do I feel so done?

I should replace my serotonin level with 5-HTP supplementation.

I think when I did use, when I did use Molly a lot more, back in the day, I would do a lot of, I would supplement with magnesium during it, supplement with like emergencies during it.

I would take glutathione run afterwards.

And to be honest, the G is not as bad because sometimes back then, like, I know this sounds crazy, but you and I both are open about our drug use, especially in the past.

You know, using G to emphasis on the past to bed.

But like, you know, people will like drill lines of Coke all night long, stay up till 6 a.m., especially in LA.

But you take it.

That's what the brand is named after, right?

Young L.A.

I mean, if

it would be weird if there's no lines of Coke there and, you know, some titties floating around.

And some titties.

But yeah, you take some G, for example, like afterwards, and it does help you go to sleep, of course, you know, because that's initially what it's made for in terms of, you know, with the pharmaceutical companies.

But

I, I find that whenever I would take Molly and do all of these precautions, and they even have these almost like these, I saw these like marketed things called roll kits that are like in the Ziploc bags that you can take before, during, and after your roll.

Now, so people are like on top of this shit now.

But whenever I would do that, I would feel a lot better and I would just make sure not to roll like two days in a row.

Definitely not three days in a row.

Three days in a row is like you're dead for the next entire week.

You might as well not be existing.

I remember those three-day parties, like I Love Techno in Belgium or Maestreland in Holland, where it's just multiple days in a row and you're

messed up.

But then you usually kind of time your stuff, like you keep the molly for the end because otherwise

you can't can't survive you know but i'm i guess i'm just saying that now at this point it's like not even about the substance it's the fact that i'm just not sleeping at the at the same time every day like you know i'm getting like used to sleeping before midnight but then i like sleep at 4 a.m the next day and it just i don't know man it really affects my mental health a lot and i i notice it significantly more than i did when i was younger yeah so um it's uh it's kind of it's kind of rough like i'm going to therapy every week um every other week and it's been extremely constructive for me but i'm realizing like the small things that can almost create like a cascade downhill that i need to just avoid in order for me to be stable from here on the other side i do you go to bed at four o'clock every day

And then if you do go out, you still come home for meal number five.

You catch up on some emails.

And then you go to bed at 4 a.m.

anyway.

That's like

it's one o'clock here now in the morning and I'm still fresh as the daisy.

You know, I had some growth my respawn, get some nootrophics in, I'm ready for the podcast.

And then I go to bed three hours from now, I'm all good.

But if I go out for a cigar and a whiskey, then yeah, I come back at two o'clock and then I have two hours to kind of recover and then I still go to bed at four.

So that's what I used to do, man.

I just lived a party life and I would always go to bed at the same time.

Do you think that's like branded into you now?

Because of your past?

Yeah.

It's weird because I went to Bali for a week for our last holiday together with our kids.

And then obviously my wife wakes up at 8 in the morning.

And then, you know, you live the whole day together.

So I had to wake up early.

Instead of 12 o'clock, I wake up at 8 o'clock or 7.30 or something like that to kind of organize breakfast.

And then I'm also wrecked for a week.

But it might have been also copious amounts of alcohol that I was drinking.

That doesn't help either.

I'm on holiday.

I'm on holiday, man.

I'm enjoying myself.

So I think you just, if you follow a certain sleep schedule, you just,

it gets baked into you that you're new circadian rhythm.

And then if you deviate, yeah, it could cost you a couple of days.

Yeah.

You know, but what are you going to do?

You're not going to stay up late and socialize and party and, you know, have fun because that has to happen also.

Otherwise, you turn into a hermit.

You know, and then you look back in your life

on your deathbed and you're like, yeah,

all those times I went to bed early and all those guys went out partying.

I really should have not done that.

Now you look back, you're like, fuck man, I had a good time.

You know, lost a couple nights of sleep, but so what?

It's what I noticed in the last year that since I've been like, since I've been on top of my shit waking up like 8 a.m.,

where I used to never wake up even close to 8 a.m.

I'm just not even able to like make it out with my friends anymore.

If they do have like late night parties or birthdays, for example, like a lot of people in LA have their birthdays, like have like, you know, parties for their birthdays on like Friday nights, Saturday nights, whatever.

And especially if like this Asian group that I tend to hang out with in LA, these people like they start like after midnight.

And that's like when I, I'm just like,

turn it off.

So you got yourself a Caucasian girlfriend to kind of get away from that stuff.

Nice farm girl.

Yeah.

It's honestly her fault why I wake up early now.

Yeah.

Caucasians are regimented, man.

Sucks.

That's the life you chose.

At least it's up to you and me to make this planet like one color.

You get like a little bit Caucasian and Asian mixed together, and then hopefully

they'll go their own ways and then mix some other colors in there to roll like light brown.

Yeah, man.

And then this planet has

one race, one master race of a mix of everything.

So we're doing our best.

We're doing our best.

I guess I was just bringing up that whole like sleeping though because I've only talked about this maybe a couple times, but when I was younger, like in my teenage years,

my parents didn't, they had me extremely sheltered just so I could study,

get all these, you know, do all these things.

And

so basically, I like,

I put this camera in the corner of the room, filmed my mom putting in the password to the computer so she could unlock it so I could do homework.

And then, yeah, I would like play RuneScape in the middle of the night.

Like literally stay up till like 4 a.m., 5 a.m.

playing RuneScape when they were asleep.

So I feel like because of that now,

I felt like it was hard for me to even sleep on time during and after I got out of college.

And then now that I'm really trying to be on top of it, bro, sometimes like

it's weird.

Like it naturally like just pulls back a little bit.

Like I normally feel

like I was waking up at like 5 a.m.

at one point and 6 a.m.

I had my call with Wesley was at 5 a.m.

Cause, you know, he's like, that's why you were so fucking groggy in the first two minutes and 30 minutes.

I was really tired, bro.

I was dead.

But yeah, uh,

it was, um,

yeah.

And, and, and, and it just like slowly over time, even though I try to sleep at the same time every day, my wake-up time still gets pulled back later and later and later.

Like, next time.

Oh, really?

So, yeah, I don't know.

It's a struggle for me personally.

So, the reason why I do it is because, first of all, it's very hot in Thailand and it's noisy.

So, I'd rather be asleep or less productive when it's hot and noisy.

So I wake up at 12.

That's usually like where most of the noise is already gone because all those mobile

markets are gone.

And I sleep with the blinding curtains and earplugs and FCPAP.

And so I'm completely knocked off from the world.

Nothing wakes me up, not even the street dogs.

And then in the afternoon, it starts to get too hot.

So all the mobile markets, they're no longer there.

The little noodle shop is not coming and the ice cream shop and whatever they sell.

So I could do like two two hours of deep work, three hours of deep work with emails and maybe some consultations.

And then I take my nap at four when it's really, really hot.

And then after that, I can do some more work and go to the gym.

But then late at night, that's when I'm most productive, weirdly.

So I just naturally rolled into the schedule.

And yeah, it might not be the best for vitamin D and circadian rhythm and that kind of stuff, but I've been doing it for years now.

It really works.

I mean, I can easily do 80 hours a week of work like this in three or four four hour blocks and, you know, a couple of times per day and get shit done.

And as a self-made entrepreneur, you know, like

it's just the way it is.

That's what you got to do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then when my daughter is born, hopefully this week or early next week, I don't mind going to bed at 6 a.m.

So my wife can sleep from 12 to 6 or 11 to 6, 7 hours.

And then I'm just on daddy duty, you know, reading up on some news and doing some research.

And then if the baby cries, I can just go there and, hey, you know, don't worry, daddy's here.

And

keep my wife asleep.

What time does your wife normally sleep at right now?

Around this time, about twelve, give or take.

And then she wakes up at seven to feed the cats and stuff.

So she gets a good seven hours in.

Lately, she's been struggling because she's high pregnant.

And she has some acid reflux and the baby is super awake at night.

It's like moving around and stuff.

Yeah, and then I go I go to bed at four, so three hours from now.

Okay.

Seems to work quite well.

Yeah, at one point you'll get to that point as well.

I feel like I already am, honestly.

Yeah.

Take your time, man.

Take your time.

No rush to be a daddy.

Yeah.

She sleeps earlier too.

So I feel like, honestly, what you're saying because it resonates with me.

It makes me feel like not so alone because I'm kind of been just trying to be in the same schedule as her almost because I just felt like it was right, maybe.

If you're a TV, you do stuff together.

Like you guys produce content together as well, right?

And you help each other out with the Instagrams and stuff.

Sometimes.

Yeah.

So if you do something together, like my wife is heavily involved with my work.

So she works with me, but she can do it on her own.

So,

you know, some things we do in parallel and some things we just do separately.

And it's always worked like that.

So

at one point, I just told her, said, listen, I'm zero productive during the day.

So I'd rather just be more productive at night.

So I'm going to go to bed at four.

And it was right around the time that the cryptocurrency really started to take off.

So I could do like good nighttime trading as well.

And then that from a financial and just productivity perspective, it was the best decision I've ever made.

You know, so at one point I'll switch back to, I know, waking up at eight when the kids go to school.

But that's years down the line.

Okay.

No rush.

Thanks for letting me pick your brain about this.

I just realized

90% of the audience probably has like a nine-to-five job or something, and this totally doesn't.

Yeah, but I used to have that.

I used to have a consultancy job where you wake up at 6.30 and then, you know, shave, put on your suits, take the car, go to the customer, the client, and then show up at 8.30, nice and on time, five minutes before you get started, and you have a meeting.

Yeah.

Fuck.

I'm happy those days are over, man.

I thought I was making good money back then.

But social media is the way to go, dude.

Now look at you now.

It's a lot better than a big old muscular bodybuilder with money.

Yeah, now I can be a lot bigger and I don't have to fit into a suit anymore.

Thank God.

This shirt's like a tightest time.

All right.

So I was thinking of,

we were talking about

before discussing like time and the circadian rhythm.

We were basically discussing just how

over time the bodybuilding industry has seemed to elevate and improve to this point where like this education is out

um a lot of people are a lot more conscious about their health and their um their markers for longevity uh and

i also i mean i think you do too but like we can see that the physiques are changing slowly over time yeah

in in certain ways

so i guess i was curious to pick your brain on this now we might have discussed it very briefly before I don't think very in-depth.

This is something I've been discussing only more and more recently, but what do you feel like,

what do you feel like bodybuilders have done recently that have uh allowed their waists to come in a lot tighter and um

basically

transition from that h frame to that x frame

i think a lot of people focus now more on nutrition and and digestibility of the nutrition so it's very individualized people stay leaner in the off season

You know, they do food allergy tests.

They make sure they can only eat what they're supposed to eat.

And maybe the drug selection has changed, right?

Insulin seems to be a little bit less favored.

You know, that could contribute to visceral fat buildup.

Those weird

super high amino acids and super high simple sugar cocktails, pre-intra, post-workout formulations that seems to be less favored, which I think, you know, the simple sugars and stuff, especially in the early days, in the 90s, when they didn't have hybrid cyclic dextrins,

they just used textros or whatever.

I think that contributed to visceral fat buildup.

And it's just not something you're going to get away.

So over time, the visceral fat builds up.

And then the waste gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

And the organs grow, obviously, from

a lot of growth hormone use.

And I think that drug selection has changed a little bit over time.

And the digestibility of the food and the selection of food has improved.

Yeah.

And since people just, you know, the quote main gaining stuff where people just stay in shape the whole year, I think think social media has brought that to the table where people just feel the need to stay in somewhat of a good shape not go over eight to ten percent body fat anymore always have some sort of six pack and and you know ability to pull a vacuum especially in the

the classic physique class so they're more presentable because the more presentable you are on social media the more money you make and the shit ain't cheap you know a high-level bodybuilding whether it's in men's physique classic or open bodybuilding or 212 it's not a cheap sport

It's not cheap with all the blood work and the organ imaging and then high quality food.

And you see that the guys that are just super, super regimented year-round, instead of where maybe before they were only regimented during a contest prep and then the waist would come down a little bit.

And then during the offseason, Lee Priestyle, they would just eat whatever.

And they would get huge, obviously, but also fat.

Yeah.

And,

you know, or Lee Priest could get away with three hours of cardio and getting shaped, maybe a little bit soggy glutes.

But nowadays, people just don't want to do that because they want to be presentable.

And, you know, so they eat better.

Maybe it's the introduction of something like a retro to tight that people are now using during the off-season,

GLP-1, GIP, and glucagon agonists.

So they feel the need to eat less, so they take away the food noise, and now they can only focus on what they're supposed to eat.

So that extra slice of cheesecake, an extra cookie, and extra ice cream is not there, which could, you know, commutatively make their waist wider.

And the exercise selection is a lot better because when i when i got started you want a big back 150 pound rolls baby dumbbells

and that hits your obliques like nothing else yeah do you see people do dumbbell rows on social media now

yeah hardly

derekenicki

off the screen and dude i do it too i'm not tracking shit but so it's it has evolved where everything's like super specific into a particular muscle group instead of just going to the which I still love,

I'm not going to lie, I like to go to the gym and rape the weights and throw it around,

sweat, and dust, and chalk.

This is what I love to do, but it makes your waist wider.

So I think with all these things, just get that synergy together.

And, you know, having a small waist, like what is his name?

I just saw an update from him.

First

Punch Naz.

Yeah.

Niall.

His name is Niall also.

He's Niles.

One Punch Naz.

So his physique looks like he's eating 5,000 calories, but his waist looks like he's eating 1,500 calories.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It's like this one.

It's like a little Thai girl.

Like here in the gym, I go to some of this Bosch gym, shit, with air conditioning and all fancy equipment.

And you see these little Thai girls that are models or stuff.

And their waist is literally like my arm is bigger.

than their waist.

Maybe not now because I'm cruising.

If it can fit in the shirt, it's probably not big enough.

But when it was like off-season,

you know, arms are like fuck 19 inches, 19 and a half, and their waist is literally like this wide.

And you see that in the bodybuilders also, they keep their waist super tight.

And I think it's just a communative effect of being really mindful with the exercise selection, being really mindful with the drug selection.

I mean, Callum, Muscle Mentor, is an excellent coach, right?

He knows what he's doing.

And then,

of course, the genetics helps with that.

And I don't think that waist trainers are really being used, or as far as I know, maybe a men's physique.

But it was like a stint of waist trainers, right?

And then they would do double waist trainers.

And then the physique or the obliques would kind of shrink in.

But the abs, they wouldn't be able to contract it properly.

So they had like no abs and no obliques where there's no detail because they're just relaxing it basically against the waist trainer.

But now everybody's chiseled.

So I think the game has just changed and it's just a cumulative effort of the fitness industry.

Some guys are really good at oblique training.

Some guys are really good at nutrition.

Some guys are really good at avoiding particular exercises and changing exercises that don't blow out your waste.

And then we have the drug coaches that say, hey, you don't use the drugs.

They take these drugs instead.

And then you put that all together and you got, well, guys with no waste, which is great.

You know, and then Lee Haney is complaining.

I don't see it.

I only see great physiques.

I don't know what Lee Haney is talking about.

Yeah.

I think Fuad and some of these others put a good point that, you know, because

Lee Haney, Lee Haney, freaking

Haney's under.

Lee Haney

was complimenting when,

dude, why am I brain fighting so bad right now?

It's early and late, same time.

You know, our current Mr.

Olympia, when our current Mr.

Olympia won, because he's basically like almost

current-day day carbon copy of Lee so um yeah I'm not really sure what exactly he was pointing out I think it's just uh there was one comment that I seemed was of note noted

I guess worth notice was um

that

Lee tended to mention this thing whenever Nick Walker uh is

no yeah discussion

is a little bit wider waist he also has got crazy arms crazy legs crazy back, crazy chest, crazy shoulders, and everything else.

And you can even just see from the back shots that he makes up for it through all those other crazy parts.

He's got that extra hand from the back for sure.

For the back, it's insane.

He has got no waist from the back, just from the front.

So maybe he,

early in his career, from some coaches, he didn't get the best advice regarding keeping his waist intact, but he was able to put on size like nobody else.

So maybe the size came at the cost of his waist.

And now he's building more size with RP training and intelligent cycle cycle design from Kyle and some good advice from people that he works with.

And his waist didn't get any wider.

If anything, it got smaller.

But there is a point of no return.

I mean, same with Dennis James.

His waist blew out with advice from me loss

and the limited drugs and nutritional sources that he had available while he was living in Thailand.

And then he moved to the US and he brought his waist down a little bit, but never to the point that it would be aesthetic or when in earlier in his career.

And

sometimes it's just no point of return.

My waist got wider over the years and it never really got back to when I was 25 years old.

I don't compete.

So, and I don't put so much effort into it.

I don't really care.

I married them off the market.

It's fine.

But yeah, for these guys, they do the best they can.

But there comes a point where there's

no return, basically.

And it doesn't matter how many vacuums you do or how much you fast to get the visceral fat off.

Maybe there's so much organ growth and muscularity there that it's just never going to get any smaller.

And what do you do?

You just make your lats bigger and your quads bigger and make it more appealing.

And then all you have to do,

because when you see this guy solo, it might in certain shots, it might look big.

And then you put him next to somebody else and you're like, you know, it's not that big at all.

You know, like Eric Gianecki, for example.

Solo, he looks great, but then next to other guys, his waist looks a little bit wider.

Right?

and and i'm sure he can still fix it because he he doesn't strike me as a guy that goes absolutely ham on the insulin and stuff

but that's going to take time also

right

i i do

um from personally knowing him i do know that he uh has had problems in the past with limiting his food volume he gets really hungry and just like i used to when i was younger um will just smash fiber and all these other things during prep to kind of give himself some satiation and i think like what you mentioned, I was playing devil's advocate in the sense saying that

out of fear, maybe Reddit Trutide and some of these other GLPs may potentially, through slowing the digestive system, kind of just like what, you know, what Kratom does in a way too,

may

almost create a higher amount of buildup in your stomach if you're eating the same amount of like protein or foods.

But I think for most of these people, they just end up skipping some of the extra fiber and the extra volume because they don't even have the interest

they don't have the appetite they don't have the digestion so if you just instead of doing a psyllium husk and a boatload of vegetables as long as you have enough vegetables and a good amount of bile acid production and you can stimulate that with thyroid hormones and sobitarome gc1 or

adka right yeah or fish oil good amount of fish oil with every meal you just create this intestinal motility that it doesn't get stuck and otherwise there's hydrotherapy man you can do that once a month and okay your gut microbiome gets a little bit, you know, violated.

But that's where the pro.

Yeah, because you're flushing out half your colon, basically.

And so there's always ways around it.

But yeah, I think retrotrutide, even at a low dose, at half a milligram three times a week, that's 1.5 milligrams.

It's even lower than the clinical trial dosages or the starting dose of the clinical trials.

If that takes away the food noise and you don't overeat, even if it's on vegetables, then I think that could be a game changer for a lot of people.

I mean, since the introduction, since I started talking about lyroglutides three years ago, the wastes have come down.

And I have a lot of these guys in my inbox asking me, and then Chase Irons also, we have a lot of these guys asking us how to use these GLP ones, you know, responsibly.

That's why I made deep dives about it.

That's why I documented the lyroglutides and the tersepidite and retrogetite.

I documented all of that on my channel.

And when I go go into my affiliate sales, I see the names come by.

I see exactly who's buying that stuff.

So

I know

it's making a huge difference, man.

It's making a huge difference.

And okay, well, that's what the drugs are there for.

I can use anadrol to carp loads, but I can't use terzepidite.

Come on now.

Just leverage the drugs for what they're there for, you know, as long as you don't abuse it.

There's 12 milligrams of terzepidite, that's abuse, or 300 milligrams of anadrol per day loading, and that's also not unheard of.

Man, even classic or men's physique guys were loading on 200 to 300 milligrams of anadrol, allegedly.

Damn.

Allegedly.

Damn.

Oh, fuck.

Why is he so watery?

Why is he fifth place?

Anadron.

Yeah.

Allegedly, I have seen that in the physique.

Some big ass, big ass, watery men's physique dudes.

Big ass cheeks.

Yeah.

Bigger than mine.

So yeah,

I think these, all these new drugs and stuff, and of course the developments in nutrition and intestinal health, I think it just slowly trickles down.

And the smart guys deliver just as much as they can.

And that's why we see so many crazy physiques.

I mean, I think their physiques have improved, honestly.

The separation is better.

Okay, maybe at the open bodybuilding, there's still a lot of the side injections in the rear shoulders where you don't see the separation, right?

Where they do like, and just like lumps and bumps.

I don't really like that physique.

I know you discussed that with Wesley Visors just now.

I mean, that guy's never pinned his delta in his life.

I mean, that's how it should be, you know.

But yeah, some guys still go a little bit ham in the open circuit.

And you see these rear delts, they

basically attach to the ear.

So all these little things, yeah, I think it's just slowly improving.

But I like the physiques now more than before.

I'm going to be honest.

As well.

Except if they had just little bigger arms, that would be pretty sick.

That's the only thing I had to fight.

Yeah.

Except for

Nick.

I think Nick's arms are big enough.

And Nick's arms are pretty fucking sick.

Yeah.

I guess I'm thinking about classic physique too, like with the weight cap.

I've noticed that I feel like the arms almost, it's almost better for you to put more into like your lats and your legs than put it into your arms in classic right now.

Like Ramon is the only person I can put.

I think it's a big classic physique.

You're right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like Ramon has big arms, but like he out of how many other guys who prioritize the other body parts compared to like, say, the 90s or the tooth.

Yeah.

Yeah, but they got the weight cap, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And of course, Chris and Urs, they don't have the best genetics for arms.

You know, Mike has got some good arms.

Wesley's got some good arms.

Ramon has got forearms bigger than, I don't know, that's literally Popeye forearms.

Insane.

But he's also barely making weight.

I got to stretch him out before

he gets measured to give him a half an inch so you can

jump a weight class.

But I think with classic physique, it wouldn't surprise me if they put another jump in the weight class.

It wouldn't surprise me if they do that eventually.

I'd be chilling.

Look at Mike Sommerfeld, man.

I mean,

he's like a mini bodybuilder.

Yeah, Mike is.

Yeah, Mike's proportions are massive.

That's insane.

And that's why I don't understand.

If you look at Mike Sommerfeld or Wesley Vischers, you look at these guys and you're like,

and you see these old-timers complaining.

And like, wow,

you got protein in your eyes?

What the hell, man?

Your dream tan, it's even worse.

I can't see it.

You can't see it.

I mean, look at these physiques.

They're insane.

They would destroy most of the guys from the 90s.

Honestly, because they're way better conditioned.

They're way better proportioned.

You know, posing might not be as good.

I'll give him that.

Posing was phenomenal back back in the day

but

i uh

the the proportions were very different in the 90s yeah um i gotta say like i i really love the proportions in the 90s too just because the arms and the just the limbs were just fucking huge

but um i agree when it comes to like the total x-frame and i think i think your eyes get drawn to the middle like you know i don't know if you've heard of that before that like if you have so much detail like your abs for example in the middle your are your eyes just kind of get drawn to the center of each competitor.

I almost wonder if that's why this X-frame with big lats, big quad sweeps, is just very pronounced right now.

And also, when that detail just radiates into the upper quads, like look at the upper quads of

most competitors now, it's separated to the bone.

Didn't have that back in the day.

They didn't have this crazy feathering,

you know, where you could just literally put your thumb all the way into the quad.

Yeah, I don't know.

I like new stuff, man.

I mean, I like old movies, don't get me wrong.

I can watch,

you know,

I can watch the Redux edition of Apocalypse Now, no problem, but I can also watch new movies.

So, you know, go with the times.

Don't

give these guys some credits because it's a lot of hard work and they got to deal with a whole new level of drama from social media.

It's not easy.

You know,

it's

a different game.

So playing devil's advocate to the discussion around the growth of our waists, because I was having this discussion with someone in my audience like literally just a couple of days ago.

But he was watching an old podcast where we were referring to axial loading, any of these other like super heavy exercises that we were just discussing that can potentially grow some obliques, maybe some,

I don't know, some lumbar.

I don't really know how much that makes a difference, but then I guess you do look at crossfitters, some crossfitters, and their waists just look fucking built as shit.

Yeah.

So

I guess.

It's like a Jujimufo build, which is very powerful.

That's I'm the same.

I'm a Jujimufo build.

The legs are a little bit smaller, waist is a little bit wider, but it's

an unstoppable force, basically.

I'm not as mobile and limber as a Jujimufo.

But yeah, it's a different kind of look.

It's a little much more of a power look.

I guess my question would be, though, like playing Devil's Advocate, is how much do you think that plays into like percentage-wise, if we were to just theoretically make up some kind of percentage for each of these?

Like how much would we think that,

say, IGF-1 GH insulin plays a role?

How much do we think that food volume and nutrition plays a role, gut health, I guess?

And then how much do we think that like axial loading and other heavy exercises that are putting load on the waist plays a role?

Man, it's hard to pinpoint because everybody's different and you don't, the cycles are all different And the exercise selection is all different.

I think back then it was just less, like nutrition and stuff was poorly understood.

I mean, when you go battle for the Olympus, what Jay was eating,

you know, or what Ronnie was eating, it's atrocious compared to what they're doing now.

You know, now they learned a lot more.

And that's why Ronnie and Jay both had a little bit bigger waist.

Nowadays, people put a lot more attention on that stuff.

So I think it just all evolves.

And the guys that really match or figure out what works for them with a good coach, and again, the portfolio of knowledge of the new coaches, I think is far greater than what it used to be.

And that's partially through social media because the coaches can go on social media and learn from guys like me or whoever.

you know other educators out there putting out free information you know they go to mike isrotel for training advice they go to me for drug advice they go to xyz for other advice and they piece it all together, they apply it to their clients.

I think everything has doubled knowledge-wise, and that's why the physiques are improving from that sense.

The proportions are more freaky, the condition is more gnarly, the muscle separation, the details more pronounced,

which can be debated.

It's still the conditioning thing, you know, but when these guys are really in shape, and then they say, how did they not separate it?

Well, they got twice the lights on stage compared to before.

this is not you know the british grand prix 1997 where you just have top lights and everybody looks like a freak now you get lights all around yeah from the bottom from the top and there's zero shadows

and then you're really dependent on on you know the the phone pictures obviously they're they're not going to capture that properly so you have to wait until uh what is it glyco productions or some of these other high quality photographers releases their instagram footage and then you're like holy shit these guys look like absolute freaks.

Yeah.

Imagine if Glyco or some of these,

that's his name, right?

The G, it's beautiful sign.

Glico, yeah.

Glico, Gilco, Gilco.

Maybe I'm mistaken for that Chinese or a Japanese soy sauce brand.

Glico.

Gilco, Gilko Productions.

Yes, that's the one.

So imagine if he was around in the 90s or 2000s or these other eras, how would they have looked on the 4K camera?

And we'll never know because the contrast is different and the technology has changed.

So you just got to go with the time.

And then I'm very pleased with what I see on the Mr.

Olympia stage when I was there last year or when I watch his live streams.

I'm like, yeah,

as long as the backdrop is black,

shots fired.

Shout out to Ford Abiyat for keeping it real.

As long as the backdrop is black and there's not too much graphics going on, you can really see what's going on.

And

somebody who was this on Instagram said, it's really cool that they matched the background to the color of the competitors.

At the one of the recent shows, I think it was,

what's his name?

The guy that had like a bicycle crash and says one or two fingers removed.

Oh,

Justin.

No, fucking.

Yeah, Shear.

Justin Shar, yeah.

It's really nice that they match the background to the competitor, the color of the competitors.

Like, it's exactly what it is.

It's orange.

So, like, all these things, like, back then they only had black backgrounds, great lighting.

So, all these things change.

But what I think the most has changed is that everybody's gotten a lot smarter about their approach and a lot more diligent

about their approach.

And the guys who are not smart and not diligent, they just fall off.

The top five, top ten, but it doesn't matter how much genetics they have.

They just get exposed waist-wise, conditioning-wise.

You know, they think they're in shape, but they're not in shape.

Their color is off.

And,

you know, how many superstars are there really in each class?

10, 15?

That's it.

And the rest is just kind of filling up the numbers.

Let's be honest.

Yeah.

I guess from this, from what we were just saying, I would say that the key takeaway for anyone listening to take away from what we were just discussing is that

like if you're, if if you're starting off in bodybuilding if you're one of the younger guys or if you still have like a long journey to go even if you're older, you know, like there's some of these guys like Bonak who are what in their 40s and looking phenomenal.

Uh

I think it really is smart to just do as much research as you can on not just how to bodybuild in the modern days, but also like what how your body reacts to certain foods, how your body reacts to certain drugs.

And

it's not like overload on the food.

Don't overload on things that you feel like are pushing yourself to the extent where like, you know, you're walking around with a big gut all the time.

I just feel like all these things really do and over the years will make an impact on what your physique looks like in the future.

Like this whole like

growing slowly, but like calculated, I feel like really does build the best proportions.

out of a body.

Yeah, you don't do any extremes.

Like that's what we used to do, right?

Extremes, extreme heavy lifting, extreme food volume, extreme drug protocols.

And I think if you just keep everything modest, you grow just the same at the end, but not the expense of your health or your waste or your skin for that matter.

I mean, you know, all these little problems that you can run into with your skin.

It's also, you know, from heavy drugs and heavy food.

High oxidative stress, like Dr.

Dino likes to mention.

It's true.

If you abuse your body, it's just going to show.

That's why some guys at the amateur ranks are just blasting their socks off and eating copious amounts of crap.

Your skin looks like an alligator or an ashtray.

So, yeah, I think modesty is,

you know, and sometimes I wish that I was like kind of like getting started in this day and age because there's so much better information.

So I wouldn't have to make all the same mistakes and listen to the BS that I was fed 10, 15, 20 years ago.

Because I think now there's so much information out there.

You don't need to make any mistakes unless you're dumb and lazy.

Yeah, I don't think

that's why you see people rapidly progressing because they do a lot of research, they make all the right decisions, and then from 18 to 22 to 26,

they fucking blow up.

Even if they don't have the best genetics and they don't get any gynode, they don't get any hair loss, not a pimple insight.

And then you look at their family members, you know, they post a picture, post the post-show, you see them next to their family, and you see their family like, hmm, this guy didn't have good genetics

yeah it's just an average looking family you know a little bit skinny fat and you know lovely people obviously but it's not like everybody's super jacked or something right that's my lovely family my cute little asian five foot tall family yeah same here man it's just everybody in my family is skinny fat so i had to work for it i'm still skinny fat yeah total tangent by the way Total tangent, by the way, I was listening to one of your Q ⁇ As and I remember you discussing, I remember you talking, going on a tangent about your mom who created diapers out of old cloths and then you burning your childhood dramas.

Yeah, it's terrible, man.

She's coming for three weeks in September.

It's going to be fun.

Oh, man.

I feel like I've never related harder.

Yeah.

It's so fun.

Dude, my mom used to use rubber bands.

And put them around like these tiny little rubber bands and would just strap them around my teeth to close the gap so we didn't have them pay different prices.

And now to this day, I have crooked teeth.

And I need to, my, my dentist keeps telling me I need to go get Invisalign.

So

at least we saved money back then.

I'm going to shave it down in Turkey and do the Instagram or the influencer discount for the...

I mean, I have terrible teeth as well.

Whatever, man.

You're off the market.

You don't have to care.

What's the point?

You know, you want to get veneers for your audience?

Maybe when you have 500,000 people and people start bitching.

Look at this guy's teeth.

Yeah.

Veneers would be sick.

I think just to be completely real, it's because it's causing me problems with my teeth.

It's causing me problems with like my

like

gum recession and shit.

Oh, yeah.

They're telling me I need to fix it because I'm getting a gum recession.

I like to brush like it's a dumbbell.

So

the doctor is like, you got to stop brushing so hard.

So I like it clean.

So use

floss.

It's receding.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

I tried to fix that, though.

I tried to fix it.

I swear to God, I just use my

vibrating toothbrush

and just place it on the dental supercharger, super soaker 9000.

Yeah, bro.

And it's still receding.

So we're still trying to figure out what the issue is.

And they say it's because of the way my teeth are.

And the mini.

Shave them down.

Go to the Amazon.

Get some nice spikes.

Put some diamonds on it.

Yeah.

But, all right.

So, anyways.

For the sake of the audience and because I think this discussion is always super fun.

I was thinking it would be fun to go a little bit into specifics as to what we think is some of the biggest improvements in bodybuilding these days.

And I think one of the things I'm thinking, for example, is when we're talking about the waist extension,

when I've listened to Stefan Keynesl discuss things, when I've listened to my own coach talk to me about our own program, I feel like some of these top coaches these days are kind of

they consider themselves low protein to the average American or the average, just just freaking

earthly citizen.

The protein's fucking insane, but still compared to the normal bodybuilder in the old days, like these guys are saying like around 1.5 times your weight in protein max, which, you know, if I'm weighing 200,

if I'm weighing 200 pounds, it's nowhere above 300.

Whereas I feel like back in the day, guys were slamming two times almost.

So I was like 400 grams in protein.

Protein, yeah.

Yeah, and I think there's a

with anything, there's of course diminishing returns.

So, the more protein you eat, at one point, it's not going to synthesize new muscle tissue.

I mean, what Justin Harris always says, you're lucky if you get 25 grams per day, which would be like 30 pounds a year, which is not realistic.

You get maybe five grams per day, if that.

So, why eat so much protein?

So, we eat protein for two reasons: it's satiating,

you get a broad spectrum of amino acids that you might utilize into hair, hair, skin, nails, organs,

protein expression from androgen receptor-mediated effect,

and then a little bit of muscle tissue, right?

And then gluconeogenesis, the amino acids go into glucose.

And then you take your glucose as an amino acid-sparing energy source.

But if you want to get lean, you have to bring your carbs down.

So then the protein comes up a little bit to compensate.

And then the healthy fats are there to kind of help, you know, keep your lipids in range and lubricate your stool and help with your skin.

And because, well, the cell membrane of every cell, that's fat.

You know, when you have a glass and you put a little bit of fat in there and it floats, imagine that in zero gravity.

So all the fat would kind of go around the water.

And now you have a membrane of fat around this water bubble floating in space.

That's your cells.

So if you go zero fat, then the membrane of your cells is compromised after a while, and you get like nasty skin.

And of course, with steroids, you kind of can circumvent that.

But yes,

a super low-fat diet for a very long period of time.

You see people get like loose, flabby, thinny skin.

And like what old people have, but then you're 30, you know?

And then everything.

I feel like it just also affects their daily efficiency and like their mental processes too.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Especially over time.

And their mood, of course.

Yeah, it goes to first.

I have zero libido.

Go eat a hamburger.

I have a lot of libido.

I should eat hamburgers every day.

You just need to eat a little bit more fat in your diet.

The hamburger is supposed to get you.

Even if they're like supplementing testosterone, too, you know, I tend to see there's not very many guys that can go like close to zero fat and be okay with it, you know.

Unless you do sugar fasting.

Sugar fasting.

You haven't heard about this?

Uh-uh.

Okay.

Wow.

All right.

Tell me we're having on the rocks.

So, this is making all the waves there.

So, you have regular fasting, right?

You stop eating anything.

And then you have sugar fasting.

So, Mark Bell started talking about it.

I did it for three days.

It sent me into a terrible blood glucose roller coaster.

It was crazy.

Chase Irons has been doing it for three weeks.

Basically, long story short, Joe Binley, the owner of Project AD, has been doing this for a very long time.

And of course, you know, the fruitarians and the cyclists, they've been all doing high-carb, low-protein diets for a while.

The idea behind it is that you avoid

protein, particularly isoleucine.

And then

in the time that you're eating a good amount of carbohydrates, fibroblast growth factor 21 goes up, which improves insulin sensitivity, improves mitochondrial function, helps with fat burning, and just makes the entire Bush metabolism and it makes the entire diet into some sort of fat-burning environment where you just eat carbs, minimal protein.

If you do eat protein, it can be a low isoleucine protein like collagen peptides, you know, a scupocollagen peptides or a couple.

And then you have maybe one protein meal at the end of the day.

So you end up at like 50 grams of protein per day, 600 to 1,000 grams of carbs from fruit and honey.

Holy shit.

And

candy.

And you're full of carbs and density.

Yeah.

So people have been doing this for the last month or something and getting great results.

They're dropping like 10, 20, 40 pounds.

what the fuck

that's crazy i did it for three days and it actually a lot of fun eating fruit drizzled in honey about 100 grams of carbs from a meal so i was on 600 grams of carbs and then a little bit of collagen peptides post-workout and then you know a little bit of protein before bed some beef and some beef liver like a little patty and uh and then a little bit of vegetables kind of washed it all down and then the first two days was great great pumps great energy levels drinking a little bit of caffeine and you're fucking high as fuck right?

So much energy.

And then on the third day, in between meals, I started going hypo.

And then I was like, man, I got to find a way to kind of manage my blood sugar.

So you eat something with a little bit of fat.

And by this point, my lower back was already like

twice the size from all the insulin, right?

Was that fat storage?

Probably not, but it's just all the insulin, you get a lot of, you know, insulin release and you get some water retention in your lower back.

So I was like, body composition-wise, from the front, it looked good.

And then I turned around, you got this flabby little lower back, like you just went on holiday to an all-you-can-eat vacation in Cabo.

It was not pretty.

So after three days, it's like, I got added a little bit of fat, but my metabolism was so boosted.

I was so hungry.

I couldn't stop eating, dude.

I couldn't stop.

I didn't stop.

I ate like garbage for like four days.

Again, when I say garbage, it's like, you know, stuff that I don't cook.

So you order a sandwich, pastrami sandwich and grab eats or Uber Eats, which is still okay, but it's, it's, you know, it's a little bit outside of dietary norms.

So that took me a while to get out of it.

But a lot of people are doing this, this sugar fasting diet now and swear by it.

So it's, you know, we went full circle.

We went from

keto to carnivore to sugar fasting.

That's why I love this industry because it's always something new and something new to try.

And it's what the fuck.

And it works for people.

And yeah, why not, man?

Why not?

You know, eating a balanced diet, I think, is still the way to go.

You know, a good amount of healthy protein, good amount of healthy carbs, and a good amount of healthy fats, some vegetables in there, some fruits.

And then if it's off-season and you want a cookie, go for it.

Yeah.

You know, like what Wesley said, you know, if you want to sprinkle in a load of chocolates every meal, so you always feel satisfied and you don't feel like you're missing out even during the off-season, sure, that's what I do also.

It's a little bit extra.

You get your 2,500 or 3,000 calorie-based diet.

It's all healthy.

And then if you want to add in 200 calories from, I don't know, whatever that's still healthy add some extra mixed nuts and seeds you know honey glazed right fuck it

yeah

fuck it you know i think i heard crumbles crumble cookies

i think i heard from some fucking doctor somewhere to just like try to make sure that like your sugar is like your like processed sugar or whatever sugar is like 10 of the amount of actual carbohydrates you consume or something.

But I mean, whatever.

I think if you live a balanced diet, okay, if it's contest prep and there's something to win, okay, man, you got to go all in because every meal that you eat off-plan could set you back from first to second.

I get it.

But if you're just off-season or hobby body butter, a little bit is not going to sit you back, man.

If anything, it just relaxes you.

Yeah.

You know?

And makes you feel like you're not in a prison.

Because otherwise you're going to

overcompensate.

That happened to me so many times where you just eat clean the whole year and always try to stay in shape.

And then you go on holiday and then

you hit the hotel buffet for breakfast and it's just

all shit goes, all clean eating goes out the window.

And then you eat like garbage for a week because you've been abstaining like you've made your own prison.

Thank God for Richard to taught.

Then it doesn't happen.

I'm very excited to try that.

I've been holding off this prep as much as possible.

Just so I can.

Are you prepping now?

I am prepping.

I just started prep several weeks ago.

How did it end up with the knee?

They get brochitis and stuff, right?

Yeah, that was last year before the last show I had, which obviously fucked the show so bad.

But

it was all I was doing was a freaking single arm,

single arm cable high row slash lat pull down.

And I was just on one knee and then pulling down.

Yeah.

And then doing a full range.

And I think maybe I probably just shifted a little bit, like my angle.

like hit a better angle for my lat.

And I think just that perfect little amount of shifting on that kneecap just kind of pushed, you know, move the kneecap and then burst the brisidus or burst the brisa inside.

So yeah, now I get nervous every going on my knees.

Yeah.

Pause.

I can imagine, yeah, when you have like one of those injuries and then it's, it looks debilitating, right?

Did you have to get it drained and stuff and then surgery on it?

Yeah, I had a lot of, I didn't have to get surgery, but

I needed to get it drained.

However, going to a bunch of different ERs during the time to try to cram it in before the show, like these ERs weren't, for some reason, they were saying they couldn't drain it, um, which was annoying.

Ended up paying like a thousand dollars for some fucking prescription ibuprofen.

That was literally the same thing as normal ibuprofen.

It was, I mean, it was just, it was a miserable experience, but

now I know Asia, you should move to Asia, bro.

You walked into the hospital, you get VIP treatment, and you walk out with a bill.

It's like $10.

That's awesome.

And you get to keep all your fucking...

You still got a Filipino passport?

No, I just have a U.S.

passport.

Get a Filipino passport.

Unregister, no taxes, man.

Keep all that influence from you.

Just convince the girl.

You go live at

Boracay,

nice beach.

Walk to the private hospital, and then you're like, I got this bursitis.

Yes, don't worry, sir.

I'll just fucking ram a needle in there,

drain it, surgery it up, patch you up nicely, and then they'll send you home with a bill of $50.

God, that's freaking insane, man.

Why do you think I moved here?

You're selling me.

Real quick, guys.

So, while I was looking at the YouTube analytics, I actually saw that 85% of you guys that watch this channel are not subscribed.

And I want to ask very little of you guys, but if you enjoy this podcast, if you find value in it, then please do me this one favor and subscribe to the channel because doing so helps me get bigger and greater guests like the guests you are listening to today.

Also, this channel is not sponsored, which means only the companies that I work with, which are Young Lay and Huge Supplements, are the companies that can help fund this channel by you guys using the code Nile.

So, Code Nile gives you a discount of 15% off of YoungLA, and Code Nile also gives you a discount of 10% off of Huge Supplements.

And if you decide to purchase anything from any of these companies, it will help immensely for me by using my code.

And this way, I can travel to other guests and also upgrade an equipment to make this podcast bigger and better for you guys.

Before we move on to the QA, maybe it would be cool if we just talked a little bit of numbers just so the audience could come home with something.

Because I was thinking about some

stuff myself.

So

I guess first off, with GH, GH,

from the people that I've talked to and some of the figures that I've listened to,

I feel like it's pretty typical that most competitors, I don't know about men's physique, but I would assume they're the same.

Most competitors normally hit a minimum of four I use of GH total.

And then

I've, I feel like I see most, if they're like taking a moderate dose, normally don't go very much higher than six to eight I use.

But I do know some of the other guys will sometimes, some of the bigger guys or the guys that are more aggressive, may go higher.

Do you ever see any benefit to doing so?

Because I feel, I know John Drew had also discussed, like, you know, if it's not very super, it's not very super physiological until it's about four I use.

But then above that, it's like, how much does that really continue to help aside from diminishing your wallet?

So most of these guys get the GH for free.

So let's not.

I mean, I get my GH for free.

What?

What am I doing?

Most of these guys get their pharma GH for free or very, very like one or two dollars per unit.

So yeah, the cost, shut up.

You're not paying what most people are paying.

Then the second thing is that most guys are gatekeeping how much units they're running.

So they might say six, but in reality, it's 12.

And then they use scientific evidence to say that, yeah, beyond six IUs, there's no peak in IGF-1.

It's the IGF-1 that you really want.

And if they're really using six to eight IUs, they're not talking about their four gram cycle.

So you have to look into the total picture, right?

And again, some guys just respond better.

I know guys that have an IGF-1 naturally of 400 to 600.

IGF-1 naturally?

Yeah.

600.

That's insane.

Exactly.

And they go and see.

Are you sure they're not like secrets?

Oh, because they come to me naturally.

They're LH, FSH.

And

I make them do full blood work.

And you're like, why the fuck is your IGF-1 so high?

That's insane, dude.

Yeah, dude.

My natural IGF-1 level was like 110.

Yeah, mine's like 125.

Oh, shit.

I'm telling you, you scroll through what it's like, 325.

I'm like, yeah, I'm halfway to the guys with good response.

So everybody, and then, okay, it's in serum, but you don't know how to respond on the receptor side, right?

So

what the problem with with drug education is that most the total picture is lacking.

It's the total picture that you're after, the drug cocktail, the training, the nutrition.

So you can say four, six, eight I use is it works, but what else are you doing?

You know, how much hours are you sleeping?

What are you stacking it with?

Are you stacking it with insulin or IGF-1?

or a dipeptidal peptidase foreign neighbor to prevent the breakdown of IGF-1.

It's fine that you have growth hormone that

produces IGF-1 downstream in the liver, and then you can use something to prevent the breakdown of IGF-1,

which nobody's talking about.

I'm the only one that talks about dipeptidal peptides for inheritance.

And then you have these guys, these educators.

Right.

So it's, but then you have these educators in my inbox asking more details.

So what does it do?

And are they keeping that then on their membership website or are you keeping that internally for their clients only?

I'm not sure.

So

drug use is very simple.

You start low, you build your way up, and whatever dose you end up where you get the maximum benefits for the least amount of side effects, that's your individual dose.

And it might be four I use, six I use, eight I use, twelve I use, twenty I use.

And then it also depends on what you're using because

on the antabolic round table, we just discussed like what kind of binders and preservatives they use in these pharmaceutical and generic growth hormones.

Some of them use Paloximer 188, which can actually be negative for your kidneys, increase your cystatin C and creatinine levels.

And that seems to be only available in those pre-mixed formulas.

So you have norditropin pens, genotropin pens, omnitropin

cartridges contain polyoximer 188, and that might have a negative effect on your kidneys, which might also alter your kidney filtration and

manipulate how you retain water.

So the brand of growth hormone really plays.

So if you say 6-I use

serostim, which doesn't have polyximer 188, it might be better than 6-I use norditropin or 6-I use Generix, which is like 97.7% pure versus 99.7% pure.

So it's a 2%

difference.

And for those 2%, you might get amino acids that make you retain water or...

promote the excretion of water or promote lipolysis.

For example, might be an HH frag, for example, or close to it that interacts with the receptor, but only causes lipolysis, as an example.

So there's

these these numbers are interesting as a starting point.

But if you don't experiment and look at the total picture, then it's meaningless.

Because your cycle,

it works for you, obviously, but it might not work for me.

And dude, if I do your cycle, I would not end up looking like you.

And if you do my cycle, you would not, I hope not.

I hope you don't get a white waist like I do and a round face.

So,

you know, the education is there as a starting point.

And then the user of these drugs has to make a decision.

How does this particular drug, with this particular drug education with a range of ideal dosages, fit into the rest of my protocol?

Because if I'm taking four grams of gear versus two grams of gear, this four I use of growth hormone is not going to act the same on this other cycle because the other stuff is different.

You know, if you're using growth hormone with insulin, it's going to react differently than without insulin.

If you're using growth hormone with retrojectite, it's going to act differently because you have this GIP, GLP-1, and glucagon agonism.

And it manipulates your blood glucose levels, right?

So all these,

yeah,

it's very interesting and people want blanket answers, but

unfortunately, you can't give it.

You just like with these deep dives that I make, right?

They're usually an hour long.

And then I talk about drug interactions that for 99% of the people, it goes straight over their heads.

But I have the experience.

And some of the coaches will catch on to this, like, oh, wait a minute.

We do these and these three things together, you get more synergy.

And if you do these two things together, you can actually get the blunting effect.

And I think the smart coaches will catch on to that because they have a lot of experience working with clients.

Yeah, it might also mean that one guy needs four, I use a growth hormone to get the same effects of another guy on 12, I use growth hormone because the brands are different, their individual response is different, and their drug cocktail outside of the growth hormone hormone is different also.

So again, start low, build your way up and see where you land, and then hopefully your wallet will agree and the mirror as well.

Say,

for $200 per month, I look fucking fantastic.

Win, you know, as long as your blood work, you know, your liver doesn't fall out of your asshole, then

it's fine.

But if you take $2,000 per month to look average,

I might want to pick up another sport.

Well, that's the thing that I find interesting is why I like to bring up these topics.

I feel like some of these synergies,

some of these synergies are very interesting and special in a way where they, I almost feel like, cause

a multiplication or a really at least significant increase in progression, but for the sake of some kind of drawback, right?

For example,

I think one of the things that has been in the industry for a while that we know of is,

for example, insulins or meloses are really high insulin protocols.

And over time, people combining that with GH.

But now you look at what some of these high advanced coaches are doing nowadays.

And I like to analyze things that Patrick is doing because he's, you know, even before I joined him, I was always just so intrigued at his coaching and his clients.

And one of the cool things is it seems like he has brought,

he still utilizes a lot of these.

But obviously, for certain individuals, brings them back to a moderate place.

You know, Milo has had like, what, like 100 units of insulin in a day.

For someone like me, for example.

He's got a lot of humiliation.

Yeah.

A lot of them.

Hey, but his guys are round as fuck, man.

Right.

Right.

I think the roundness is

like for me, for example, Patrick will have me.

He's had me do the most minimum amount of insulin.

Obviously, I have just started off, but it was like three I use before and then three I use after, specifically just on my leg days because legs are what I had to progress.

Um,

at this point now, uh, during prep, the insulin use is limited to only on leg days, uh,

four I use before the workout, and that's it.

So, compared to 100 I use in a day is a pretty drastic change.

But something interesting that he brings up is like that I think a lot of coaches have discussed.

And I, I, like, this is completely theoretical.

So, you know, we don't know really how much this contributes to overall gains or even like, say, like a buildup of insulin resistance or visceral fat in the long run or, you know, the stomach growth.

But like combining GH and insulin around the same time, like GH and insulin are supposed to be

right, like antagonistic of each other in a way.

Like, yeah,

to a certain extent.

Right.

So, so, so growth hormone causes lipopolysis through hormone-sensitive lipase, and that liberates, frees up, free-form fatty acids from adipose tissue.

And those can interfere with how insulin works.

So you have insulin receptor substrate one.

Insulin attaches there to the insulin receptor, sends a signal through insulin receptor substrate one, and then glute four, the glucose

co-transporter four, is translocated, it moves to the cell surface, allowing for glucose uptake and then other nutrients can get in as well.

If these free form fatty acids are there, this communication between the insulin receptor and

what is it?

Insulin receptor substrate one, it doesn't work.

But if you take carnitine

and you help with these free-form fatty acids and medium and long-chain triglycerides to absorb into the mitochondria, they're not floating around in the bloodstream.

They're not inhibiting this insulin effect.

And if you train,

you also get glute-4 translocation without the presence of insulin.

So you would take insulin pre-workout.

You could take growth hormone at the same time, burn away the fat, be be insulin sensitive, and then during the workout, as insulin starts to work, you get additional glute 4 translocation for glucose uptake post-workout.

So the timing here and the co-ancillaries, basically, the co-drugs that you administer, heavily play into that.

And then if you use mitochondrial peptides like MOTC, SLUPP332, SS31,

alongside of this.

Methylenblue?

Yeah, methylene blue.

The glucose uptake and the mitochondrial function is so enhanced that it doesn't matter

if insulin is somewhat inhibited.

It's probably not even inhibited because again, the free from fatty acids and simple sugars are just being utilized by the mitochondria while you're active.

And they create this entire anabolic and nutrient uptaking environment

for your body to kind of overrule that effect.

And this is what we've learned in the fitness industry.

You know why guys like Patrick Tour and Stefan Kintel and myself were so good at these drug interactions and these little nuances.

If you feel like any of the medications that we spoke about today may benefit you, such as BPC 157, GH acreagogs such as tessamorellin, IGF-1, Oxandrolon chrochee, semaglutide, then you can obtain these from Transcend HRT and the link for that will be in the bio.

If you feel like you're experiencing symptoms of low testosterone, such as depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, as well as lack of sex drive, then you can get this checked out as well by getting your blood work done at Transcend and they will provide you expert medical analysis.

Transcend HRT has worked with many professional bodybuilders and pro athletes, such as Thor Bjornsson, Phil Heath, and Jeremy Bundia.

And if you feel like this podcast has any relevancy to you, I do believe that this clinic will provide of great benefit to you as well.

Thank you for your patience, bro.

That shit is life-changing.

I know it's your morning, but I always had

my coffee this morning.

So I know exactly how it feels.

Like, I was like, oh,

not right now.

I gotta, I gotta

fucking bathroom.

It was alarming, bro.

It was absolute.

It came out of nowhere.

Didn't you have a cheap meal yesterday or what?

I stuck to my salmon and rice, but my parents came into town for the first time in a while.

So I've been trying to mend my relationship with my parents for a little bit.

I think going to therapy has helped quite a bit.

They just happened to be around in the area because my dad was visiting something for a conference as a professor.

And

yeah, so we just went to like the sushi restaurant with him and I got some like

raw salmon and rice

probably

after, man.

It's the day after.

Probably did it.

Emergency evacuation, man.

With the parents, you just do your part.

Just do your part.

Do the best you can.

I'm the same now.

Like in the beginning, my relationship was kind of eh.

And now I'm just doing like, I do my part.

You know, I'm patient.

Don't get upset.

Take them out to dinner.

Send them money because you never know how long it's going to last.

Yeah.

And I don't want to have any regrets.

Like, I should have amended it when I had the chance.

That would be worse than just suffering through the, well,

suffering through the moments.

Yeah.

So where were we?

You were mentioning.

You, Stefan Kinzel, Patrick Tour

are very, I guess, focused or know about these synergies.

Yeah, because they, I think they, both of them, they used to coach athletes in IFB elite.

And Kinzol used to be with the WBPF as well, just like I was.

Those are all drug-tested shows.

So

you got to be really on top because you're limited on what you can recommend.

So you got to be really on top.

More so on the nutrition, more so on the training, more so on the drug selection, because you're limited on what you can recommend because there's drug testing before the show and on the day of the show at the IFB Elite World Championships and the WBPF World Championships.

And that just makes you gives you a better arsenal on how these synergies work

because there's cutoff detection limits and

what you can use.

So you really learn how to leverage instead of the Trimix, test train and mastron,

you learn a little bit more about how these drugs interact.

And I think that's why these guys are so good.

And, you know, and Kintel is fully booked now.

It's got hundreds of clients, it seems.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Very booked.

So I guess one of the interesting things that they've discussed that I've brought up a couple times, which I think is kind of a fun discussion, but

Patrick's mention of how,

you know, there's a lot of coaches that will like give you, they'll try to give you GH in a fasted state.

of course, which is, I think, pretty common in the past.

For example, like before bed, but a certain amount of hours after your last meal.

But Patrick states that there's something to be said of

having

GH when your insulin is high,

but not very often because obviously this may lead to a faster increase in insulin resistance.

So

he will like prescribe this.

I feel like he'll he would do this maybe like, you know, if you're taking GH two to three times a day, he'll have like one time where it's like for example like like pretty damn soon after your post-workout meal for example

um and this is one of his ways i think he was expressing the value of this being that it also

you also kind of yield higher igf-1 levels from it and potentially higher um muscle gains from it as well so i mean that was kind of his strategy which i always found pretty interesting it's true and again if you have it post-workout with a post-workout meal that's high in sugars you get a little bit of lipolysis.

Again, the exercise, and if you use some carnitine, whether that's injectable or mitochondrial support aids, the free fatty acids and this

inhibiting effect of insulin receptor substrate and a potential for insulin resistance is non-existent.

So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

And you see these people like, I take my growth hormone before bed, I wake up with a fast in blood glucose now of 101.

Okay, are you doing daily fast cardio?

Are you waking up with the alarm clocks and your cortisol level sky high, giving you a glucose dump?

Is your glucose just high because you woke up to the alarm clock?

I mean you got glycogenolysis from the liver and this glucose is not from insulin resistance.

It's just going from the 70 grams of glucose or glycogen that you have stored in the liver.

So

you really need to learn, or people need to learn how to interpret your blood work results.

And I think if you live the lifestyle, a lot of these commonly reported side effects that you see in the scientific literature on healthy people that are not physically active like we are and don't take, you know, a cocktail or a myriad of other performance-enhancing drugs, you know, I think it's nothing to worry about.

And otherwise, your blood torque will tell you, man, your blood glucose levels will be chronically elevated, not just one time.

And your hemoglobin A1C will be atrocious, like 4.

or 5.6, for example, or higher.

And you'll see it in your lower back being super watery from all this glucose spillover.

Yeah.

Right.

And then

you just get bloated in the stomach and skinny everywhere else because insulin resistance.

So in these animal models, what they do, they give them a high fat, high fructose diet to make them insulin resistant.

And they see if these appetite suppressants or mitochondrial support agents get them out of this state.

What these results usually, what these studies don't report that after four to six to eight weeks on this high fat, high fructose diet where they are literally insulin resistant, they don't exercise, and their skeletal muscle goes down by 30 to 50%.

So then you have something like Trevor Gru Mup, that Mike Isrutel is promoting, or Geretismup, these monoclonal antibodies that

put on copious amounts of muscle mass by inhibiting myostatin and activin.

You see it in these animal models where they're insulin resistant, and then suddenly these monoclonal antibodies put on muscle tissue on them, copious amounts of muscle tissue, which which they already had before this high-fat diet.

Now, do you identify as a rat on a high-fat, high-fructose diet that isn't allowed to exercise and then take these drugs?

No, you exercise every day.

You do your cardio every day.

You get your steps in, right?

That's also one of the new things.

You walk in between sets like me and Wesley Vissers have been doing for ages.

You're very active.

So

you can get away with a little bit more growth hormone.

And otherwise, your body will tell you where

you're just not growing.

You're not getting any size.

You're not recovering.

You've got this chronic little

problem in your triceps because they don't get the nutrients anymore.

Those are early signs of insulin resistance.

And your blood torque will tell you.

I've coached hundreds of people on a high on insulin, high growth hormone, and a good amount of steroids and good nutrition.

I've never seen insulin resistance ever on athletes.

Never, not not even a sign.

But they're on carnitine and they're on mitochondrial support aids.

And it's usually the guys that take it not so serious and then eat, you know, a good amount of saturated fat over the weekend in the form of a cheat meal.

So I think for a guy like you, it's not really an issue, man.

I mean,

do you think if they weren't on the carnitine and mitochondrial support aids, like this would be a different story?

Could be.

Yeah, it could be.

Could be but then again the exercise and the cardio and the steps and and the activity the sheer activity would just keep you insulin sensitive.

And again,

during the offseason, do you hammer carbohydrates to the point you're in a chronic surplus all the time with saturated fats?

No, right?

You just eat enough to get by and to grow.

So you're probably never in a glycogen-saturated state where your glute four translocation and your insulin sensitivity goes down.

You're always like 95% full.

And that's why you might

and you do carb cycling probably during the offseason, right?

That's also something we do nowadays.

You just do carb cycling the whole year, but during the cutting phase, it's less carbs on a high day and a medium day and the low day than it is during the off-season.

You kind of cater your carbohydrate intake based on your activity level.

You stay insulin sensitivity the whole time.

You can stay on insulin and high growth hormone.

And as long as you eat according to your activity over the day, you're like 95% saturated, which is more than enough for amino acid.

a protein sparing effect for anabolism, but not enough to be chronically full to the point you lose insulin sensitivity.

But yeah, that means every meal is measured and blood glucose is checked in between those meals.

And all these, or you take a DEXCOM, right?

That'll continuous blood glucose monitor and blood work every month, which is cumbersome.

But if you really want to exceed, then that's what's required.

You're consciously measuring yourself to make sure that you're still on the right track.

And as soon as the numbers of the measuring devices start to deviate, then you make the adjustment.

You maybe do a mini-cut

or you take certain drugs out or you increase the dose of other drugs, right?

Or you increase your activity level, or all of it.

And then you make the appropriate adjustments, and you're fine.

That's why we have coaches and intelligent design of the protocols, because I'm sure during the offseason in your contest prep, you're like zigzagging through the process.

I got this piece of paper 16 weeks out and I follow it to a T, and then I'm one day out, and then we do a diuretic.

It doesn't happen like that, right?

You're making continuous adjustments based on your biofeedback.

And And I do the same for myself.

You know, I wake up, I assess how my physique looks, I make a diet for the day,

and then it might change based on how my gym performance was.

So today I did legs and I had a phenomenal session.

So you know what?

I had extra

blueberries and one cookie that my wife bought

as an example.

You know, and then maybe another time my workout session is not that long and not that great.

And I have one blueberry and one strawberry and no cookie.

You know,

that's it on the fly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not insulin resistant at all.

But it's off-season and I'm chilling.

So getting the face is a little bit fluffy.

It's all right, man.

Cool.

All right.

There was this, there was this one topic that I thought was kind of just funny.

I don't really know how important it is, really, because I'm sure there's a lot of people in the audience that kind of

just saw your message ass plosion.

Um, duty calls, man.

Nature calls.

Uh,

I'm not really sure how

I'm not really sure how valuable this uh convo might be because uh, I'm sure a lot of people are kind of on a similar page regarding this, but I thought it was an interesting combo because there was one person who commented on one of my reels

on one of the transparent podcasts, like shorts.

He seemed quite angry at me.

It happens,

it happens.

So how angry was he on a score for one to 10?

12?

This wasn't a 12, but it was definitely kind of...

It was kind of humorous, to be honest.

Let me see if I can find it real quick.

Here we go.

Those comments.

This guy's a fan of yours, I think.

Was it directed at you or me?

Our sweetie B F Arc says, so basically I was on the reel.

I was discussing the trend, the use of trend.

the use of Chris Bumstead's trend.

Oh my God, why did I freaking...

Chris Bumstead's use of Trend Defense.

Chris doesn't use any trend, right?

Or hasn't used it in years.

Exactly.

This is exactly what I was saying.

Right.

This is exactly what I was saying.

I was discussing this with Ian and I posted the podcast and this guy just, I think, I don't know, this guy was.

I feel more so like this guy just kind of like really wants to protect the use of trend or something and just maybe wasn't listening close enough to your deep dive or whatever because you did i i listened to your video of your deep dive on um like the 23 case studies of trend use 600 citations

600

yeah that's nuts um but beef fark says uh what is what is transparent podcast referring to when he says and he spelled two wrong when he says we know how bad trend is for your kidneys is he gatekeeping vigorous steve and he tagged you vigorous steve never mentioned any of this

and then a guy said steve mentioned it briefly on a pod with niall and they joked about charlie the unicorn which was one of my favorite moments with you

and then beefark says

when steve did his most recent trend podcast where he compared adverse human events kidney issues were the most rare and related to extreme doses or bad carrier oil oils used by ugl so not really sure why nihil is fear-mongering

that was this comment.

So anecdotally, train is bad for your kidneys because it increases creatinine levels and cystatin C.

We see that over and over again.

People don't really check their cystatin C, but they should.

So if you go and TRAN, even a low dose, your cystatin C will increase.

Is that kidney stress or are you just producing more cystatin C?

Are you producing more creatinine, more cystatin C?

In the trembling case reports, there are not so many instances.

Like with Supertrol, it's clear.

Like Supertrol is toxic to the liver.

100% of the case reports, just like 20 of them, give or take, all liver stress.

Now, were they only using Supertrol?

No, no, no, they were drinking alcohol and they were doing this and that and you know, not taking their Tatka and NAC and vitamin E and taking care of themselves.

And it's the same with the trend.

I just recently did another video about the trembling case reports, which

Dr.

Lucas

forgot.

Anyway, four doctors from Italy,

they made an index of all the case reports.

Yeah, there were some instances of kidney stress, like full-blown rhaptomyolysis.

But the rhapsomyolysis comes from skeletal muscle being broken down to the point that the kidneys can't filter it out.

I think just anecdotally, people report more kidney stress because their body works harder.

So when they don't hydrate properly, you literally see it in your urine.

I saw it after going to the gym gym that your urine is just, it looks weird.

Even on 25 milligrams per week, which of course everybody's joking to me about, but that was what I calculated based on

the scientific evidence, animal models, extrapolating dubiously from the animal models where a certain dose of tremblon based on body weight was inhibiting the glucocorticoid receptors and gave you the best anabolic response for the least amount of androgenicity based on the you know the the the prostate and the left or anime muscle in your pelvic floor like at the base of your dick basically so i did some dubious extrapolation like for 400 kilo 110 kilo bodybuilder 25 milligrams per week gives me the maximum effects and the least amount of side effects so i took 25 milligrams per week micro dosed most people take that per day or or twice a day and then i still see changes in my urine color you go to the bathroom after the gym and it just looks like full with metabolic waste products it's like brown tangy iced tea kind of color and i drink a fuckload of water you know

so there is something with tremblon that increases metabolic waste products and whether that's cystatin c or creatinine or increases inflammation in the kidney directly by oxidative stress or again the carrier oils right a lot of the trend obviously is coming from underground labs and even the the parabolin produced by nigma pharmaceuticals nigma laboratories was produced in our rucious oil where a lot of people are allergic for and that adds to the oxidative stress.

It's a little bit of scientific evidence that trimbolone increases inflammatory prosthetic,

which is another inflammatory pathway.

It's just a very harsh compound.

And part of that is just that your kidneys have to work harder.

Now, can you mitigate that with estrogenous root extract, hydration,

you know, antioxidants, SS31 and SLUPP332, which increase mitochondrial function, which are kidney protective?

Again, based on animal models.

So,

you know, you have to look into the total picture.

And people don't want to give up their trend.

People don't want to give up their DNP or adipotites.

And that's fine.

Everybody can take whatever drugs they want.

I don't really care.

I put the information out there for people to make smart decisions.

And then if you don't want to give up trend or a certain dose of trend, you need 700 milligrams per week or a gram per week.

Go for it, dude.

God will sort you out.

And you can tell by the comments that some people are so married to their drugs that it literally eats away at them they're they're married to telmasartan or they're married to mastrone or they're married to trimbolone or they're married to deanabel or dmp and it eats away at them you can literally see it through the comments so i'm not like it's the same with stocks right i like stocks when they go up and i sell them when they go down Buy low, sell high.

And it's the same with drugs.

When they work for me, I love it.

And when they stop working for me i stop taking them or i take a lower dose um so leverage what you can and if it doesn't work for you anymore like some guys get hair loss from masturban and primo okay don't use it then you know

don't use it then it's use something else there's plenty of drugs out yeah fuck man jesus christ but i gotta use train otherwise i don't win my show no you don't because george peterson wasn't using trend

when when we did his autopsy report uh

John Jewett didn't use Tremblon for his last Mr.

Olympia, where he was the most conditioned guy of the show.

I've seen so many guys that didn't take Trent.

Chris Bumstead, for example, didn't take Trent.

So, okay, but that's high-level competition where these guys, that's all they do.

That's their life.

24-7 hardcore bodybuilding, full-time bodybuilding, as Jay Cutler likes to say.

And if you can be a full-time bodybuilder, then yes, maybe you need a drug crutch in the form of tremblon and dnp and adipotite to get you to something similar

so again i'm not married to any drugs man i just take the drugs that work and if there's scientific evidence that shows that it's good for you then i'm willing to take it and then later on maybe 10 years down the line other scientific evidence comes to the forefront where it says that it's maybe not such good drug for you or you you make a different decision based on the new scientific evidence, then I'm free to change my mind.

But with TRIN, there's 600 papers and I read the majority of them that apply to anibolism.

There is not a single human study performed.

I was able to find the medical insert.

I have a video on that.

No citations there.

I was able to find one reference of a citation in the

handbook for experimental pharmacology, 43 anabolic androgenic steroids, where they linked to a citation that trimbolone was being investigated in liver toxicity, 32 case reports, again case reports.

And all of the human studies, the clinical trials, real human studies, nowhere to be found.

So all we have is animal models.

Same for SLU, same for MOT C,

same for most of the drugs that we take.

So that's not kidney toxic.

We don't know.

It's never been investigated.

It's been observed.

but it's never been investigated.

And the funny thing is with the Mastron or Primo, they say, yeah, it's not kidney toxic.

Like Boldadone is kidney toxic.

That's been investigated.

Deanibol is kidney toxic.

It's been investigated.

But Primo is not kidney toxic.

No.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

It just hasn't been investigated.

Same for Trent, same for Mastron, same for most of these drugs.

Yeah.

So

you make the best decision with the information that we have.

And I don't think that steroids will ever be investigated to the extent that we want to because it's just not sexy.

It's not interesting.

There's no, why would you spend millions of dollars on a clinical trial for a drug that isn't even FDA approved anymore?

What's the point?

You spend it on Trevor Gruma.

At least, you know, people can, we can sell that.

I think

that's one of the fun things that was just, I just thought would be fun to bring up this comment because obviously there's a lot of people that will get lost in the comments and then have these crazy arguments and discussions with each other.

And I think that's why it's kind of valuable to like bring these up so things don't get lost.

But

I think someone like this guy, for example, probably got lost.

And when you were,

one of the things I liked in the video that you were, you know, promoting these case studies or discussing these studies is that you said basically a similar version of what you said now, where it's like,

you know, Boldenon, EQ, has been shown to be deleterious to your kidneys in some sort of fashion.

And you said that, well, here's the thing.

Right, because it's been studied.

And for trend, we've seen this in a small amount of case reports.

No, it hasn't been studied, but knowing how hazardous it is,

if you're doing any other thing else that's adding on top that may be affecting your kidneys, you shouldn't be assuming that it's not going to affect your kidneys at all.

You know?

Yeah, maybe it's not the trend.

Maybe it's something else.

Right.

Maybe it's a combination of both, right?

It's a combination of both, maybe.

Like me, me and Dean are the only ones that talk about oxidative stress, basically, from all the educators.

It seems to be poorly understood.

I had people like to take DNP, half of some vitamin C will cure it.

No, no.

So me and Dean, we really understand oxidative stress, mitochondrial function, NAD plus pathways, and there's so much related to that.

So if you're literally destroying your body by increasing oxidative stress by taking a boatload of steroids and don't take the ancillaries, you don't eat healthy, and then you smoke, drink, zizz it up regarding that lifestyle.

What do you think is going to happen?

You're degrading your body just day by day.

Literally, you're just putting it through the grinder, man, and you might look good for a while.

And then, after a while, it stops working.

So, you take more drugs.

Take more drugs to compensate.

And it's the wrong kind of drugs.

When in reality, you just need to come down to baseline, throw in the towel, go on TRT,

take some fucking glutathione, shut the fuck up, and just clean out.

Yeah, but it was

definitely this drug that fucked me up.

No, no, no.

It was your choice not to do it smartly.

And yeah, maybe Trent played a part in that.

Could be.

Or maybe not.

But it's never been investigated.

I think for 90% of the drugs that we take,

the clinical evidence is simply not there.

Unless it's ancillaries, like Telmasartan

arimidex, you know.

Like a lot of people say that aromatized inhibitors are bad for you, right?

They're terrible.

Yeah, if you're a postmenopausal woman with breast cancer taking arimidex or anastrazole or

some of them.

XMSTAME, yeah,

if your estrogen is low and your crest is zero, of course you're going to get side effects.

But if you're a man and your estradiol is like 50, you bring it down to 40,

it's harmless.

Right.

Or why not just choose aromacin over arimidex?

Yeah, you can choose that, but it's...

The side effects associated with the aromatase inhibitors

are not the aromatase inhibitors itself.

It's related to the estradiol level.

So, bone mineralization, is that low estrogen or is that the aromatized inhibitor?

Cognitive impairment, is that low estradiol or the aromatized inhibitor?

So, if you use an aromatase inhibitor smartly, intelligently, to bring your estradiol in a range where your lipids are good, your libido is good, your cognitive

capability is great, and you have a lot of empathy, but not to the point that you start crying all the time, right?

You're in an ideal range.

I think that you leverage it correctly.

And all of these side effects that some of these guys extrapolate from the scientific evidence based on postmenopausal women with breast cancer crushing their issued out to zero by taking one milligram of remedics per day,

you know, maybe, maybe use your chat GPT a little bit more intelligently.

You know, so again, I understand there's a lot of information to sift through and sometimes it's not really clear.

But I think I've done a pretty okay job with the deep dives, explaining everything that you could possibly go.

That's what Wesley Visser said, right?

Right, right.

Coming from me.

That's what Wesley said on the previous podcast.

I think I've done a pretty good job explaining everything that you need to know about a particular competent, drug interactions, synergies, things to avoid.

And then if you have the patience and the intelligence and the perseverance to sit through a one-hour deep dive, I don't think you'll ever make a mistake regarding that drug.

But you need to see as long as they listen like and comment right

and like and comment

i think to conclude this uh conclude this little debate um with this person or anyone that may potentially not come fully comprehend this or think what this guy does i think we're concluding the same thing that what you're saying is

I think you and I can come to the conclusion that like Chris Bumpset in this scenario, like what we were discussing, should not have used Trend because he had his issues with his

kidney hindering autoimmune disease.

Yeah, he's preventative.

He's smart.

Right, exactly.

And he's still winning everything.

So why would he take Train when he's already winning everything without it?

Train is not necessary to win.

Conditioning, posing, and you can get there through a thousand different routes.

And Fakahani, that he was working with and Ian before that, they're wizards, man.

They know what they're doing.

Ian just didn't want to focus on Chris anymore because he wanted to focus on his own career, which is a fair...

Dude, if you're both doing the Olympia,

fuck, let Ian focus on his own show.

And okay, you go with the best guy, the next best guy, and that's Hani.

You know, and then Hani threw in the towel.

He said, fuck this.

I'm done.

So, but yeah, you don't need trained man.

You don't need any of these drugs.

You need

a good coach and somebody who understands you from an emotional perspective when it gets tough because it's tough to show up like that.

It's not easy, man.

I can't do it.

I can get down to 7% and then I lose my fucking mind, man.

No, it's true.

Me too.

It's true.

Me too.

Yeah.

And then I get on Halo testing and I feel a little bit better.

See, so you found out what works for you.

There you go.

Exactly.

Halo all the way.

All right.

Let's jump to this Q ⁇ A real quick.

Yep.

I actually meant to jump to it sooner because you have a crap ton of questions.

Per usual.

Holy shit, there's a lot.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

I'm so sorry.

Did you pre-select them?

No, I did not.

I never did.

Are you doing a rapid fire then?

Like I do on Twitch 2, eh?

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

I'm sorry, guys.

I'm ready.

Are there any super chats in there?

Because super chats get more of my time.

If it's $10, you get more time than a $5.

Fuck, man.

Damn.

Just ask one and then you you can pre-select as I answer.

Okay.

Scarter Fitness asks, is Thailand still a good place to live?

Retire

Mark.

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

So I've been all over Asia besides Philippines.

I haven't been there yet.

Besides Philippines?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

And you're telling me to go to the Philippines earlier.

I know, I know, but it's your heritage, dude.

So you should go there and speak your own language.

And do you speak the Philippines?

You should go ahead and speak your own language.

Hey, man.

So, no, I haven't been to the Philippines, but I've been to China.

I've been to Mongolia, Macau.

It's also China.

I've been to Taiwan, also China.

Hong Kong, also China.

I've been to Tibet.

It's not China.

I've been to Bhutan.

I've been to Myanmar, the border towns, Thailand, Laos.

Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia.

That's Asia.

And then I've been to Dubai and Kuwait.

I've been to the United States, and let's say everything in Europe.

And from all of the places that I visited, I would say Thailand is the best place to live.

All things considering.

Is it perfect?

Absolutely not.

Is traffic atrocious?

100%.

If I could get Las Vegas, with the comfortability of Thailand,

that would be perfect.

But

I haven't haven't found it yet.

People are super friendly.

It's easy to get stuff done.

Do you have bureaucracy with your visa?

Sure, but you're a foreigner.

What do you expect?

Bureaucracy is going to be everywhere.

Try immigrating to the US or Europe.

Aaron is still trying.

He's been there for over six months.

He's still trying to immigrate.

And I got a comfortable visa here, you know, for 10 years with my wife.

Again, it's still reasonably cheap.

Is it more expensive than it was before?

Sure.

But there's also more money-making opportunities than there are preferred.

And it's still way cheaper than Dubai, ways cheaper than Vegas.

Um, second place I would want to live is Vegas, and third place I would want to live is Dubai.

But Thailand is my home, and I fucking love it here, man.

I love it here.

That's awesome.

First place you want to live in Vegas?

Yeah, second place.

After Thailand, yeah, after Thailand.

Oh, after Thailand, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, after Thailand, Vegas, yeah, I love Vegas.

I've been there for three, four times now, Dubai, four times.

And I just love it there, man.

People are so nice.

They're coming from all over America.

And

it's got everything I want.

And great gyms, great malls,

cinemas, great restaurants.

And then if you want to do something rugged, you can go into the mountains and do some hiking and

helicopter tours and shoot guns.

And same as in Thailand.

Just like entertainment everywhere.

That's what I like.

Because I'm working most of the time.

But then on my Sunday, I want some good fucking entertainment.

And I'm not willing.

I'm not adverse to spending good top dollar

for half a Sunday that's legendary, you know, so I can do that in Thailand and I can do that in Vegas and I can do that in Dubai.

You know, can you really do that in Dubai?

Dubai is not super expensive.

I mean, it's more expensive than Thailand, but if you want to do a dune buggy, you know, over the weekend, sure, you can go to a beach club.

Or you can go to the Ferris wheel, or you can eat at the atmosphere in the Burj Khalifa on the 136th floor, or go to that, you know, there's a lot of rugged shit to do there.

You know, apparently, they got some good nightclubs, but I've never been.

And of course, the gym culture there is great.

Plenty of hardcore bodybuilding gyms, you know, steroids everywhere, allegedly.

And, you know, you got the Dubai Muscle Show, some conventions there.

And it's, I like, I like Dubai.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It will be a third place to live.

Hong Kong is great, two days, three days.

Macau is great, three days, four days, right?

Every place is like a certain amount of days that you want to go there.

But Thailand, I can easily stay three months and drive around and do cool stuff.

And yeah, I love it here.

Yeah, it's crazy, but I love it.

Well, Vegas is the best place because then we can hang out more.

Yeah, I know.

I know, I know.

With a baby on the way and seven cats, it's difficult to do.

I tried to pinch it to my wife.

She's like, what about the cats?

And then we actually looked into it.

And then you can't import pets from Asia directly.

They need to stay somewhere else for six months, quarantine style.

So So we have to go to Brunei or something like that in some sort of pet hotel.

And then, dude, like now

immigrating to the U.S.

is kind of tough.

Damn.

I locked it down, man.

I could do an investor visa,

spend top dollar, do some sort of investor stuff, buy a house, and it will be easier to get my wife on board because we're officially married, obviously.

So with money, it could make it happen.

But then when I look at the money and then the, you know, the taxes that I would have to pay, I'm like, you know what?

Yeah.

I'll just go to earn a holiday, spend $1,000 per day having fun and then go back.

But not this year.

I'm probably not coming because I have a kid that I want to spend time with.

Bro, that's insane to quarantine with your cats for six months.

Like, what?

What?

Yeah.

I don't understand.

I know.

You know, I didn't understand either, but like,

you, you get cats and you get seven of them because I'm a cat daddy, obviously.

So

they have the youngest one is like one and a half years old, so that means another 15 years, give or take.

And I got a baby on the way, so that's another 18 years they could move.

And then I'm 60.

Would I want to go to Vegas?

I just got earned holiday.

You know, go to Vegas, go to Florida, do the Disneyland, do

Universal, maybe do some podcasts, you know, like last time, do a little tour of the U.S.

And then fly home, comfortable Thailand to a super cheap house.

It's super, super big

because everything is so affordable here.

So, you know,

that's the way.

Your money goes a lot further here than anywhere else in the world.

Yeah.

All my friends were telling me that their favorite place is Thailand, for sure.

Vacation.

Yeah.

Crazy things.

So you've been doing

lots of amazing massages.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

For all kinds of levels.

Yeah.

They use their mouth.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Not only that.

I know it.

Abraham Conquiso

asks, HDH timing with insulin post-workout or before-bed time

first thing in the morning.

That's boring.

Ask on the Q ⁇ A.

We just answered this.

Yeah, we did.

Well, I would, just for the sake that I can say this,

I would say if I had to pick if you had six IUs or above, I would just do, I would split it up three ways.

I would split it up morning, I would do it before bed because it makes you lethargic.

Six I use before bed, just sleep it off.

You wouldn't split it up?

I used to do that, and I would always feel tired.

I got too much shit going on right now.

Yeah,

I got too much

sometimes.

Yeah, okay.

If I take a normal acting insulin or a non-acting growth hormone, I just take it all before bed.

Six I use sub Q

hour or two before bed, and then I sleep and drool, and then you know, the full monty of

fat comatose.

And then you wake up, you're like, you know, you take your coffee, you're ready to roll.

But before I would take like two use pre-cardio, and maybe get a little bit of fat loss, and then two I use before the workout, and then two of you sprinkled in somewhere else, and then the whole day, I'm like,

trying to keep your eyes open, and then you look at the you know, the modafinil or the bemetil or the mildronate or the

bromethane, and you're constantly trying to slam stimulants.

Not anymore, man.

I got too much shit going on.

I'll take cannibalism at night.

For a bodybuilder trying to go to Olympia that doesn't feel the effects of GH like that anymore like me or doesn't feel sleepy anymore, lethargic like me, then you would probably split it up.

I'm assuming.

You'd still take it before bed.

Really?

Yeah.

I've tried it always

and before bed is just the most convenient.

Gotcha.

Okay.

And dude, you're a businessman too.

You have a podcast, you have social media to run, you got a girlfriend.

Why make yourself sleepy when you can get the same results if you take it before?

I don't feel lethargic anymore on it.

Like, it's at the point where I don't feel it at all, to be honest.

The only thing I feel is the numbers.

What kind of money are you running?

What kind of GH are you running?

Somatropin.

Yeah.

It's.

Nice try.

What are you going to say now?

Wait for it.

Maybe it's super tropin.

is it some chinese generics 10 i you vials that you need to reconstitute

no it's um

does it come in pain

i don't know how i don't know if i'm how much i'm allowed to say this okay okay never mind never mind tell me off air i get it i get it okay okay i get it i get it keep your sources safe rule number one

well i can tell you honestly that um my igf one levels are very high whenever i do take it and um i i get the

i get the numbing all the time in my freaking fingers and stuff.

So if you don't get tired from it, yeah, you can do that.

I did get tired of it.

I did get tired from it before.

And when I took my first dosage of four IUs all at once, when I was supposed to split it up two and two, I did four IUs all at once.

I was just doing something stupid.

I was going on a flight.

I was like, damn, I need to just take it all at once.

So I took it in the morning for IUs.

I wanted to freaking die, bro.

I felt absolutely miserable.

Like I just like, there was just no happiness with being awake.

So

I think I'm just at the point where the life RG is adapted.

You drop off your bags, you sneak to the bathroom, you pin it, and then you got about 30 minutes to get through customs.

And by the time you hit the gate, you're like, oh,

I'm fucking gone.

Yeah.

I love GH, man.

It puts you to sleep.

Oh, man.

So good.

Crazy dreams, too.

Bobby Mofo show asks, is one cigar a day safe?

Is one cigar a day safe?

No.

No, it's too much.

No, so a cigar is a a luxury, right?

So same as alcohol.

It's a luxury we shouldn't really do because cigars there's a lot of oxidative stress, increases your inflammatory markers, and alcohol basically inhibits protein synthesis.

So here's what you do.

You find an event, a birthday, a wedding, a funeral, or whatever, right?

You have a couple of those events per year,

or holidays.

And then you have expensive cigars and expensive whiskey or expensive wine.

So you don't drink too much because you're like fucking $50 a glass.

But it's so good.

So you have two glasses.

You know, instead of spending $100 on 20,000 beers,

you spend $100 on two glasses of scotch and it's really good.

And you save with that, you know, a little bit of ice, but not too much that it's too diluted.

You drink it neat.

you know and you put a load of water in there to get the fumes and stuff you turn yourself into a snob you get a nice fucking thick fucking 40 cigar right

maduro wrapped padrone limited edition or some sort of uh cohiba if you can have access to it in the US probably not but some some Cuban cigar that's very fancy so you have your one or two glass of whiskey and your fancy cigar and you save it at fucking moments because that's not going to come for another two or three months And the problem is when you get really financially secure, you can do that instead of every three months, you do that every month.

And then it's

a little bit too often.

But every day no

no so i did i smoked a cigar one time and then i did blood work the next day and then my inflammatory markers were like quite elevated

why is my serotonin protein so high i'm like fuck

yeah because i smoked like you know one of those cigars that you could beat somebody to death with you know big one a fat one one that takes like one and a half hours to finish yeah so you're you're literally inducing oxidative stress for one and a half hours.

You're increasing your inflammatory markers for one and a half hours.

So

you're burning the candle from two angles.

So, you better make sure that it's a nice cigar, that it's really savory, really tasty, and really enhances the flavor of your whiskey, and vice versa.

Or wine, if you, or vodka, whatever you like to pair with it, like beluga gold, that's some good fucking vodka, but it'll set you back $30 a glass.

Yeah, so I like to retire.

This is, yeah, so you, if you do it, do it not so often.

And when you do do it, make it memorable.

Really, this is this is how I got over my vices.

So instead of drinking beer every weekend or cheap vodka or cheap whiskeys, because you want to get hammered, no, you just get the most expensive stuff that you really taste.

And then you savor that moment, you enjoy yourself, and it's for an occasion.

And you sit there and

you dress up too.

You go to a nice cigar lounge, you take some pictures, you flash it off on Instagram,

having a good time.

And then you're done for the next couple of weeks, okay?

Not every day.

Not every day.

Or be like me and just, when you retire, replace your trend with scotch and cigars.

There you go.

And even then,

you know, it's funny if you go to high-dose retrogatites, you don't want any of that.

Oh, really?

All these guys are overcoming their addiction and their vices by just going on like five grams of

five milligrams of retrospective.

Five milligrams.

Five grams.

Yeah, they don't want to drink.

They don't want to smoke weed.

They don't want to do anything.

Wow, that's insane.

Yeah, that it helps you overcome addictions like that or vices.

It's quite strong,

you know.

Instead of fantasizing about how when can I get a glass of whiskey again and smoke a cigar, you're like,

I gotta eat this chicken and rice.

Wow, that's crazy.

I feel like this is the first time I've heard of that.

I'm excited for this.

Yeah, um, no more G for you.

It's a replacement.

Yeah, it's a replacement.

Yeah, go with the G for the R.

Lucian Mern PT asks top three peptides for fat loss.

Peptides for fat loss.

SLU has to be like at the end.

But it's not a peptide.

No, it's not.

So the only thing that's LU is fat loss are basically like growth hormone AOD 9604 and HCH FRAG.

HCH Frag.

And adipotite, but I can't get behind that.

So SLU,

MOTC, could an SS31, if you take it in a

caloric deficit, it could help with fat loss by increasing mitochondrial function.

SLUPP332 in the animal models was shown to be an exercise memetic, but it's more of a molecule.

It's a molecule that interacts with the estrogen-related receptor,

just like testosterone interacts with the androgen receptor.

But it's not really a peptide.

Glucagon causes fat loss.

GIP activation causes fat loss.

It helps mobilize fat in and out of adipose tissue.

So if you take...

uh retrogutite glp1 to blunt your appetite gip to blunt your appetite and to help with fatty acid mobilization yeah and glucagon to help liberate fat so the gip helps with fatty acid mobilization out of adipose tissue when the glucagon is there as well and in a low insulin state.

So retrotutite with the ketogenic diets,

magic.

And then growth hormone for hormone-sensitive lipase.

So you take retrotutite and growth hormone.

That's the only peptides you need to get lean.

And then the rest is molecules.

A little bit of a discussion.

Have you ever tried trzepatide yourself?

Yeah, I'm the one who introduced it to this fucking industry.

Dude, it's insane.

Like I get people, have you ever tried this drug?

I'm the one who talked about it first.

Fuck, man.

Fuck.

He's going to shoot me now.

Yeah, of course I've used it.

I've used so much of that shit.

What is your personal experience with rhetorotrutide versus trisapatide?

Because I think one of my concerns is

the sleep disturbances for some people.

Maybe they're not going to be able to do that.

Yeah, so both of these drugs that can increase your heart resting heart rate, right?

And how do you mitigate that?

Daily fast cardio.

Living a healthy lifestyle, not too much caffeine.

so all those bang and monsters and and and

take it easy on those man but i've noticed like anecdotally that a retitrutide seems to seems to show more sleep disturbances in a greater population of people than the truzepatite and i think that's just my one concern because i am a light sleep i think there's people with a guilty conscience that are still cheating on their diet

seriously

Seriously.

I think if you live this lifestyle, you shouldn't have problems with your heart rate.

And

like, okay, if you go to the scientific evidence, I think Truzepatite seven points that your resting heart rate goes up and retroject 10.

You just did a deep dive on it, but I don't remember 100% of the deep dives that I make.

So it's in the deep dive, guys.

Just go to my channel, Retrojitite, and then you skip to the timestamps where I compare retrojectite to Terzepatite, and I compare all scientific evidence and those comparisons.

It's fabulous content.

Leave a like and a comment.

Thank you.

It is.

It is very fabulous.

Yeah, it's fabulous.

Absolutely.

It's fan-fucking-tastic.

There's nothing better here.

So

derzepatites,

yes, it can increase your resting heart rate, right?

And Samuj said can increase your resting heart rate.

But I think if you live the lifestyle and you eat healthy and you go to the gym, you do cardio, and you have a productive day, it shouldn't interfere with your sleep quality.

I don't understand how people, I can't sleep.

So well, instead of taking the coffee at eight o'clock at night, maybe you don't have it after four, right?

into the total picture okay i think that's a really good point to make though i do want to

i do want to put a little bit of pushback that i do now that that what you know individual response yeah okay there's still there's still some kind of individual response sometimes with some of these compounds you know like trend makes some people happy trend makes some people want to kill their kill their wives so yeah

divorce in a bottle

but

you put a good point with the with the heart rate i think so so if you if you notice that and you're doing everything you think you're doing right,

then switch to another compound, whether you're a lyriclutide, duloglite, semiglutide, trazepidide, retrodutite, and a masdutide and zervidutide.

Two other ones that are being developed.

And a bioglutide is also being developed.

And otherwise, there's cagrelinotide.

There's an amylon receptor agonist that also blunts your appetite.

And then there's tesofensine or melanotan 2 or Bolasdale's growth hormone or fentramine.

Remember that?

Subitramine.

Remember that?

SSRIs.

They all blunt your appetite through different pathways.

So if you don't have a good response with one, it doesn't mean you don't have the similar response with the other one.

Like milligram for milligram, anecdotally, terzepidite blunts appetite more than retrotutite.

So if you take three milligrams terzepidide,

one milligram Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you get a better appetite suppressing effect than retrotutite for the same exact dose.

But at that same dose of retro tutor, you might get more fat loss loss through the more potent glucagon receptor agonism that Trezepidite doesn't have.

So maybe instead of, and then it's a matter of price.

So maybe the fat loss, the overall results are better because you can still eat and you get better fat loss.

I pivoted from Trezepidide, 100%, to retrotutide because

from the research and the experience that I've had, and I've used plenty of

Trzepidide in the past, there's now a new and better compound.

I can take the same dose, get similar appetite suppression, but I get enhanced fat loss.

And my blood glucose levels are more stable.

So why would I go back?

But if this person gets sleep quality issues and a resting heart rate that goes up and they're doing daily fasted cardio and they're eating healthy and they manage their blood pressure and stuff, okay, then you pivot to the other one.

That's the fun part about the experimentation.

You go from one drunk to the next.

You watch my deep dive first, so you know the dose conversion, and then you make the pivot.

And you use my discount code to save yourself 10%.

You have to market your

TRT clinic if they

provide allegedly on prescription,

perhaps.

It's a business for everybody, man.

Let's be fucking honest here.

So, yeah, you go from one drug to the other.

Steve's mine, yeah.

Code vigorous.

Yeah.

So

you go from one drug to the other one.

If trend doesn't work for you, you go to primo, for example.

It's that simple.

There's there's in the same category of drugs, there's there's like five to ten different to choose from.

And if one doesn't work for you, you don't get the results, or you only get side effects from marginal results.

You just go to the next.

That's why it's so much fun to experiment.

And you buy one vial of each or two vials of each and you just go from one to the next and see what happens.

Nobody can tell you unless you get your hands dirty, man.

Yeah.

All right.

Um,

Burry Brandon, with an eight and a four in his name, asks: if you get a prescription in Thailand, can you bring it home with you?

USA/slash/Australia.

I don't think so,

but the prescribing physician will say yes.

So, if you get a prescription in Thailand and you got that on a tourist visa, me personally, as a border controller, I would say, oh, that's nice, that's cute, but you live here, you're falling under this medical system.

Like, I have a script in Thailand, but I also have insurance in Thailand and I have a visa in Thailand.

So my script will be valid.

But if you're a tourist from the US or Australia and you come to Thailand and you come here for two weeks, just enough time to get your script, but your insurance is in the US or Australia, and your residency is in the US or Australia, personally as border control.

I would say

nice try, buddy, but straight to jail.

And why would you?

Because there's good TRT clinics in Australia and there's good TRT clinics in the US.

I mean, there's one sponsoring

this freaking podcast.

So why fly to Thailand to get a script for TRT or anything else when you can get a script in the US for the same thing and don't even have to travel abroad?

So it doesn't make sense.

Now, if you want to buy steroids in Thailand for personal use, you can only bring them back to the UK, I think, not anywhere else.

Yeah, or you'll learn how to package it and set it and forget it.

And then, you know, you look for the exit with no customs.

You just try not to sweat.

Might have done that too.

And I went to Bali.

I brought my whole fucking pharmacy with me, man.

And I just pretended that I didn't know and just walked straight through.

Didn't stop me.

So I was okay.

I had experiments to run.

You know?

But yeah, when I go to the U.S., I don't bring anything.

I'm fucking terrified.

I'm terrified of the US, man.

I don't bring anything.

When I went to New Zealand, I don't bring anything either because New Zealand, they'll scan everything.

And in Australia,

they'll scan you on the way through.

So

depending on where I go, if it's somewhere in Asia,

Dubai, Kuwait, I don't give a shit.

They're very lenient.

And there's always a way if you know how to talk.

But the US, no, man, what would I?

When I go to LA, there's people,

Steve, what do you need?

You go to L Vegas, Steve, what do you need?

Just come to my house, man.

Here's my drug cabinet.

Just take what you want.

So, you know, there's no need.

And again,

if you're after a script, you just get it back home and you can get a script anywhere now.

Do you think all of these top Olympians, they just get their shit here?

Like, find a source and get it here.

And just, I know, I know.

I know one guy.

Some do fly with it.

You think, and they just risk it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then, like, in the U.S., I know guys that shipped it there, and then they intercepted it.

They intercepted a package.

And then, of course, they sent it to their own name on the hotel, right?

To the post box there.

And they intercepted a package.

And then they arrived.

They said, hey, you sent this package of steroids here.

Banned forever.

Damn.

Yeah.

So, but some guys just fly in with it.

He said, how did you get this?

I just brought it with me.

Yeah.

You know, and when I was like 26, 30 years old, I would do the same thing.

I wouldn't give a shit.

But now I'm a little bit older.

There's more at stake.

And I would like, I need to go to the U.S.

still for podcast collaborations.

Like if I go there as a tourist and they ban you for life and I have no business in America, then yeah, sure.

Fuck it.

Fuck it, I'll bring my GH and

a little bit of steroids for personal use.

But now,

no, man, I can't afford to get banned from the U.S.

because I'd like to do podcasts.

I'd like to go to the Mr.

Olympia eventually.

I'd like to go to, I don't know, Universal Studios, Epic Universe.

So, no, I don't risk it.

And it's the same with Australia and Sweden.

But if I fly to China or, no, China, I wouldn't bring.

But anywhere in Southeast Asia, in Europe.

Holland, many times, man, I just bring what I need.

Fuck it.

It's my country.

I know a lawyer there, and it's, you know, but you, fuck, I hope nobody of customs is going to profile me the next time I go there.

It's a dependent, it's country-dependent.

But a script in Thailand is only valid

if you live here.

And even I have a script for testosterone, and I just didn't even bother bringing it to the U.S., I just don't want to sit there and customize.

So, what is this?

And then the time zone difference, I have to call and verify.

And you sit there for hours.

Just don't have time for it, man.

Want to go to the hotel?

All right.

Galaxys101 asks, what did you do to reverse your LVH growth?

LVH.

I came off cycle and I did a lot of cardio.

Yeah.

And then when I came back and I kept doing the cardio, I came back on cycle.

Then the LVH came back again.

Yeah, it's just training, man.

Training on steroids just makes your heart grow.

And I control my blood pressure.

I use nabivolol every off-season.

Like it's a meta-blocker to slow your heart rate, to prevent negative cardiac remodeling.

And then you're like borderline LVH.

So you have a slightly enlarged heart and the LVH is like one millimeter into

the cutoff zone.

So instead of 11 millimeters, it's 12 or something like that.

Can't remember.

And then,

so I do a cardiac ultrasound every six months, give or take, like at the end of.

a cycle and then at the end of like a medium or cruise protocol and it just shrinks and comes back shrinks and comes back, shrinks and comes back.

So I'm not really worried.

Again, I do my daily fasted cardio.

I've been doing that religiously.

I'm pretty fit from a cardiovascular perspective.

I'm not too big anymore.

I'm 230 pounds.

It's not crazy.

And even when I was 265 pounds a couple months ago, six months ago, when I was at the end of the offseason, I would still do daily fasted cardio.

And that's when I did my

you know, my cardiac ultrasound.

And then I hit like one millimeter off.

But there's no,

what is it called?

The valves are closing normally.

There's no terrible regurgitation.

The left ventricular ejection fraction was

68,

70%.

Very good

for

my age and my level of abuse, basically.

I never had a terrible ejection fraction, never had terrible regurgitation, you know, trivial, they say, in the atrium, something like that.

I don't have any problems with my aureorta.

I don't have any tax score over zero, right?

So

again, it's the total picture.

And I do this stuff frequently.

And at the first sign of trouble, I just abort and, you know, take a step back and make sure that I get healthy again.

And then the, you know, the bug bites again.

You get a little bit excited.

Drugs go up.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, I would just, I myself would just say that everyone, anyone that's a little bit scared or a little conscious, just like make sure you get a good cardiologist and normally it's just uh that'll freaking calm you to be honest.

Like I just got a cardiologist and I got my like I got an echocardiogram and everything, bro's like, dude, you're like your thing is like 12 millimeters or something, maybe 13.

Yeah, it's borderline.

Yeah, he's like, it's literally nothing to worry about.

I'd be like, well, can I like jump on the stand?

Like I'm worried my Apo B is really high.

Like I understand even if my LPA little A is low, like the ApoB is high.

So that's shuttling, you know, all this LEL into my bloodstream.

You know, I'm a little, he's like, no, you don't even need to be that stand at your age.

Like, there's literally no issues.

Like, I know that you're worried about these numbers, but to be honest, and then it's your inflammatory markers that need to be chronically elevated, or you have high blood acidity, leaking calcium into your bloodstream, which then helps with

the black deposits, right?

I mean, black is LDL foam cells and calcium and

scarred arteries from alcohol or inflammation or other stuff that literally makes holes, divots in your arteries, and then the LDL foam cells can get stuck, the calcium gets stuck in there, and then you create plaque.

It's a whole process.

It takes decades.

So if you're proactive from the start and you don't abuse the drugs, then, I mean,

I don't see a reason why you would get it.

But

you hear these stories of teenagers getting a CAC score of 500.

And then you look at their protocol and you're like, oh, yeah, well, okay.

Kind of did it to yourself then, bro.

I never did blood work.

I was scared to know the numbers.

He said, oh, now you're really scared because now you're close to death

so proactive is is preventative medicine and that they don't really understand it in the medical field where you go in for a routine scan it's like why are you doing this you're 30 years old so yes i'm trying to not kill myself at 50 years old but that's why i'm here now

i want to get it done now you don't need it i'll pay him i'm paying out of pocket take my money shut the up and let me get throw me in the machine and give me the results you know sometimes you have to fight with these guys um but yeah i can do an mr that's why Thailand is great.

Medical tourism and private hospitals.

I can do an MRI on the fly.

I can just call.

Do you have a space today?

So yeah, you have to talk with the doctor.

He's available at one.

Talk with the doctor.

You explain your reasoning.

He's like, okay, sure.

And then at 1:30, you're in the machine, and 5 o'clock, you got your results.

And then at 5:30, you got the bill.

You're like, yeah, that's not too bad.

$600, $1,000?

That was a good day.

Good day for ease of mind.

You know?

The amount of money I've paid on medical bills just as a bodybuilder fucking driving me insane, dude.

And that's how it should be.

And that's how it fucking should be.

Yeah.

It sucks, but whatever money you spend on drugs, you put that.

So let's say you spend $200 on your cycle every month.

You put that save money or $500 on your cycle.

You put that same $500 in a savings account.

And then that's $6,000 a year that should be able to cover all of your medical bills.

So you double your cycle of finances wise, and then you have all the blood work set there.

You know, if you're smart, you put it in something that accumulates money, you know, some asset.

And then it's basically

taken care of for it and paid for.

URDMR333 asks,

should STALL on range,

should STODAL on cycle always be in range?

It can be a little bit higher during the off-season.

I mean, there might be some scientific evidence that a little bit higher estradiol might be anabolic, and otherwise, it helps with controlling your lipid levels and SHPG when you take higher cycle dosages.

So, no, I'm not adverse or against letting your estradiol run a little bit higher.

But then, you know, some guys get libido issues from 60 picograms per milliliter onwards.

Some guys get gyno from 75 picograms per milliliter onwards.

Some guys get acne from that point.

So, again, individually, some people do better with a 30 or a 40 or 50.

And then just find your individual.

I usually keep mine at 50.

Yeah.

At 50.

And that's where I feel good.

So right now I'm 27

for whatever reason, because I'm a TRT.

Yeah, and I'm somewhat lean.

So you don't aromatize that much.

But I feel better on a 50.

But for a 50, I would need to run, you know, like 500 test.

You know, or 250 tests.

So,

yeah,

it's totally fine.

But a low estradiol feels worse than a high estradiol.

High estradiol just gives you libido side effects.

It might cause acne, but low estradiol will kill your libido 100%

and gives you dry skin and hot flashes, lots of bone mineralization,

all the side effects associated with aromatase inhibitors.

Right.

Low estrogen low E is just the worst.

It's my least favorite thing in the world, to be honest.

It's the reason why sometimes I dread competition prep, because I worry that my coach is going to drive my estrogen a little too low at the end.

And in the past, it's been like some fucking severe, really shitty side effects.

And then, like, waking up in the middle of the night with the cold sweats and the freaking highs.

No, it sucks.

It sucks.

It's fucking terrible.

That's that's prep, man.

And you know what happens?

You take 500 tests post-contest and you just aromatize.

Or you take a bottle of HCG and you produce a lot of estrogen and then you're out of it in five days.

Okay.

You know?

Dylan Sankar asks any benefit to using albuterol and yohimbine combo in off-season prefaceticardio dylan sankar

yeah oh it's an old client of mine hope you're doing well bro i hope you're doing well um

so clambuterol and what together albuterol and yohimbine albuteroline off-season pre

pre-facet off-season i wouldn't use it because it increases your heart rate and then you literally draw um energy away from your skeletal muscle to your heart and now you're you know burning that away instead of building new muscle tissue so I wouldn't do it during the off-season stay lean then just eat less you'll get the same effect during cutting phase albuterol works on a bit of two or three nertic receptors dosages range anywhere between two milligrams to eight 16 milligrams taken orally you can also inject it well a is unfortunately gone now

anabolics anonymous is a closed shop so normally injectable albuterol speaking of actually one of the questions was asking you.

Yeah, I thought you were going to.

He's going to explain exactly what happened.

I'll explain.

So

unfortunately, Super Shredder injectable albuterol is off the mark, but I'm sure somebody will step up their game and produce it after this.

That was one of my favorites.

So that works on a beta-2 adrenergic receptor, similarly to climbuterol, from 8 milligrams per day.

Albuterol is supposedly anabolic, similarly as climbbutrol is anabolic from 40 micrograms per day onwards, give or take.

And then Yohimbine works on the alpha-2 receptors, blocking them.

And especially in the absence of insulin, blocking the alpha-2 receptors helps with lipolysis and erections, allegedly.

Never really got an erection from yohimbine or rubulcine.

But yeah, it's a great stack.

It's less invasive than climbuterol.

And it has some thigh fat too, right?

Especially if you're a woman.

Yeah, it helps with lower body fat.

Yeah, quite a bit.

So you take like two milligrams to four milligrams albuterol in the morning and three milligrams Johimbine and you go in your cardio machine you sweat buckets and

and then over the course of 16 weeks you should be pretty lean

yeah

yeah

yeah and regarding anabolics anonymous um apparently they got raided by the fta

and uh they decided to stop

So they're now in the process of refunding all of the customers that placed orders, but they're not able to send out, obviously, because they're not allowed to send out stuff.

And then I believe after that's done, they will contact the affiliates to pay them out.

And then

they will have to go through the legal process.

Because, well, they were the most gray area out of all the gray area peptide websites.

And that's why we love them.

Never really heard a complaint about their service and stuff.

They've been in the business for seven to eight years.

They had a bought load of affiliates.

We all love them.

And yeah, but you know, that's the operation risk of having a company like that.

So eventually they

had some trouble behind the scene,

which

they can discuss.

That was never really made public, but if you know, you know.

You know, it was very unfortunate that news.

And ever since then, you know, they tried to keep their head above water, obviously.

And then, yeah, this happened.

And what caused it?

Were they building a case for the last seven years and then they raided them?

Or is it the Ellie Lily and Nova Nordisc not being happy with them selling GLP-1 receptor agonists like Drazipididites, semi-glutite, and retritides.

That doesn't surprise me.

Is it just a change of

RFK trying to go?

I don't know.

RFK Jr., like, yeah, this is a little bit too gray area for me, even for me.

He loves this methylene blue, but he just a bit too much.

You don't really know.

I'm sure we'll hear later on.

I just hope that those guys can get away with a slap on the wrist and

continue with their donation work for the homeless dogs that they've been doing because

just by doing that they're already saints.

And

have some disposable income afterwards, you know?

So, but yeah, I don't think they will be back.

I sent them a couple of messages, haven't heard from them, and I just wish them the best of luck.

And,

you know, if they can pay out the affiliates, great.

If they can't, so be it.

Use it for the lawyer fees, whatever money that they need to expense because i i made more i made more than enough money with those guys um over the last couple of years i think i've been with them for four years and then suddenly they they you know they got raided so

that's just uh the the operational costs of being a little bit beyond uh what is uh considered uh you know within the law that's that's why this gray area man you gotta make it airtight and will will that mean that all the other gray area peptide websites get shut down?

I'm not sure.

It depends on their product list.

If they continue to sell products that are heavy, being lobbied for that they don't want those being sold.

So if LE Lillian, Nova Nordist are behind it as an example, then it will be best to take all the GLP-1 receptor agonists off the product list.

And that means

a lot of people are going to go and get hungry.

And it'll be less conditioned people at the shows because I i never use a glp water receptor agonist sure you don't

how did he get so shredded this year

he finally put it together this year there's so many people bro it's insane

it's it's so insane yeah it's insane so but a lot at least in classic for seek they're more forthcoming than in open

I found.

In Classic, they're like, because

I get DMs all the time, right?

And then I was at the Mr.

Olympia last year, and all these guys from classic, they're like, dude, this, this content, this gold, I've been using my tooth dad this year, and it's, it's fucking amazing.

And me and Chase are laughing your asses off, you know, yeah, bro.

That's where, like, the poster by me, we call Chase like the Reddit daddy because he's a Reddit tooth dad for like a year straight or something like that.

Damn.

He doesn't

like various

things.

I was about to say, how high did he have to

cycle it or how high did he have to?

Like half a milligram three times a week to like five milligrams per week, somewhere in that range.

Or six milligrams.

And he was able to just run it straight through or did he do that?

Yeah, he just cycles up and down.

Yeah, cycle up and down.

He seems to be pretty adverse to side effects.

So he can run like 10 grams of gear and just

walk away happy.

Oh, fuck, man.

I'd be raging.

Yeah.

This guy's so chill.

I wish the genetics.

Whatever he's taking, I got to take two so it can be chill like Chase Arns.

So yeah, with that with Anabolics Anonymous,

I just always say salute for your contributions to the fitness space because everybody and their mother were on their products.

Their injectable pre-workouts were fucking legendary.

I've had the best workouts on Stampede.

And so you just, once you see each chest, your chest literally swells.

It's you have like two boobies and you come home and all sweaty and shit and they get my wife and they just bury

so i took some stampede baby

yeah i had a little i have a little bit of super shredder left so i saved that for chest day and but i have no more stampede so i really hope that somebody steps up their game for that product with injectable adenosine monophosphate and uh adenosine triphosphate because those pumps were um

You know, over-the-counter pre-workouts are great.

Citrulline malate and betalanine and creatine.

It's cute.

Beetroot extract.

It's cute.

It's fucking cute, but there's nothing like injectable stampede, man.

Holy dog shit.

Especially in smaller muscle groups.

Double D's

in two working sets.

Yeah, so those guys were great.

So I hope they can keep afloat somehow and go through all their legal battles that they have to face.

And then,

I don't know, right after the sunset, they come to Thailand for a nice long holiday or Bali or wherever because they deserve it, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

there's so many other questions.

So maybe hopefully we can get on another one some point soon.

Anytime, dude, I'm always available.

I am your VIP guest now.

So if it's a fourth and a fifth time, anytime.

And otherwise, there's a fucking Vigorous Q ⁇ A where I answer these questions all the time.

So, you know, just tune in on Saturday if I'm there.

But it's daddy time soon.

So

I might take a look at that.

That's going to be crazy, bro.

That's going to be crazy.

I'm so excited, man.

I'm so excited.

It's the last thing I wanted in my life, right?

Oh, seriously.

I think I accomplished everything I wanted to accomplish by age 40.

A certain amount of financial security, a certain amount of respect and recognition in the fitness industry.

And I wanted to see the world, which I did.

So, and then this is kind of like the last thing.

I want a bigger house.

But we're slowly designing that now.

So that will take another two or three years before that's done.

So this was like

a new chapter for me, being a dad.

It can happen any second now.

Let me double-check if my wife's water didn't break.

She probably said me, I know you're in the podcast, so there's no news.

So nothing today, but yeah, it could happen any day now.

Bitcoin is going up, so we're winning.

This is the only time.

So last day, last day,

I would never expect that the imminent of war

between the U.S.

and Iran would lead to a stock exchange explosion

on Monday.

Yeah.

And as bad as it is, I'm profiting from it.

So, yeah, that's basically the last chapter.

And then yeah, it means less content,

unfortunately, because I want to spend time with my kids.

I want to do it right.

My childhood was a little bit, that's why I'm so weird.

So I want do it properly from the beginning and then be very, very present.

Yeah, yeah, that's my plan.

I feel the exact same way, too.

So, yeah, well, thanks for coming on, man.

I see good things in your future, man.

You've landed a you stole one away from uh Caucasians, so better make it fucking work, otherwise, we can't get you

fucking Chinese guy, this fucking guy.

Look at that even from China, BBAC guy, yeah,

I saw that post that you made on Instagram.

I was laughing so hard.

Fuck, man.

This is people now.

Be happy.

Be happy for.

I'm very happy for you.

It looks like you would make a killer fucking team, dude.

It's awesome.

Thank you, man.

Thank you.

And it's rare, too.

Let's be honest.

It's rare in this day and age to be a killer team.

So good on you, man.

Yeah.

Look forward to the wedding invitation.

For sure.

For sure.

All right.

Cool, man.

Thanks for coming on, bro.

Everybody, I guess

you guys already know where to find him, Vigorous Steve.

Easy to find.

Instagram, all the best.

So,

yeah.

I'll catch you again soon, bro.

Keep me updated with how everything goes.

Yeah, we'll do.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Tech soon, bro.

Take care.

Later, dude.