Edna Thorne ////// 852

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Let's talk some true crime.

When 15-year-old Edna Thorne vanished decades ago, no one held a news conference to ask for help finding her.

No one offered a $50,000 reward.

There was no ongoing coverage of the missing teen's plight on television and in the newspapers.

Edna Thorne is still a virtual unknown.

Her disappearance is as much a mystery today to her family and to the police as it was decades ago.

Quote, she just left one day and said she was going to the stables.

She hasn't been seen or heard from since, end quote.

As reported back in 2000, each year more than 5,000 Philadelphia teens are reported missing.

Most are runaways or abducted by family members.

However, 1% of these missing teenager reports, like Edna's case, is a bona fide mystery.

So Edna's case is not unlike teens who went missing before her and after.

Unfortunately, sometimes folks simply mysteriously vanish.

Then years go by, and then in some cases, decades.

The job of the Philadelphia Police may have been easier if Edna's case had the publicity and the reward that some other cases have received.

Sadly, her case remains open today.

This is the missing persons case of 15-year-old Edna Thorne, and this is True Crime Garage.

It has been 50 years to the day, five zero years since a teenage girl walked out the door and has never been seen again.

Edna Christine Thorne would have turned 65 this last February.

That is if she was not missing and presumed dead.

Instead, Edna and her family have missed birthdays, maybe a wedding, and possibly children of her own in a case that has remained a Philadelphia mystery for decades.

Edna Christine Thorne was born in February of 1960, and she was just 15 years old when she went missing from Philadelphia 50 years ago on June 24th, 1975.

She still has an older sister, her name is Deb, who is looking for her and who keeps an active Facebook page aimed at finding answers to Edna's disappearance and hopefully bringing her home.

Edna had several sisters, in fact, two older and one younger.

Now, at the time of the disappearance, Edna had recently graduated from stetson junior high school the reports state that edna left the family's home located on front street in philadelphia the reports state that she left on foot and left alone one of her older sisters is elvira now elvira got married the previous year to a guy named frank ryan edna's relatively new brother-in-law had given her a pony as a gift at some point.

So on the day that she vanished, Edna left her family's home on Front Street, this to go visit her new horse at its stable.

Now, I do not have a great timeline due to how far we're going back here on this case.

So I'm not sure of when he gave her this horse as a gift, but all reports state the same that she was leaving.

the home on Front Street on foot to go visit the horse at the stable.

Now, prior to leaving, Edna had invited her 13-year-old sister to join her in the visit, but for whatever reason, the sister stayed behind.

The horse stable was located on a relative's property.

This is at Tioga Street.

This area is right on the border of Philadelphia's Kensington neighborhood, which today is now known for the largest open-air market on the East Coast.

And this is where the TV series Long Bright River takes place.

Oddly, Long Bright River is about a lady looking for her sister, her missing sister.

The series, though, has nothing to do with our case here today, just simply an interesting coincidence.

Edna Thorne, our missing individual, is listed on several websites and databases.

One that we reference often is the Charlie Project website, the largest, most comprehensive collection of missing persons, reports, and database.

Please visit thecharliproject.org, spelled with an E-Y,

where they have over 16,000 missing persons profiles, and links are listed for most, if not all, of those profiles for further investigation and study.

The site is run by Megan Good, who is doing good work and relies on donations to keep the site fully up and running.

The Tioga stables referenced in the Charlie Project write-up.

on this case are no more, but their closure makes it difficult for me to pinpoint the exact location.

However, from what I could find here, Captain, the stables are close to the family's home, I'm assuming, because she left on foot.

The stables, the info that I found suggests that they were located at Tioga Street and I Street, near that intersection, if not at that intersection.

So if this was a straight shot from their home, it's like nine or ten blocks.

And we do believe that she made it there because we have eyewitnesses that put her at the stables.

Yes, that's correct.

And like you said, Captain, it looks like Edna's trek to the stables is not of concern here.

Now, in the trailer for today's episode, I briefly touched on reports from 25 years ago out of Philadelphia of statistics stating that each year, more than 5,000 Philadelphia teens are reported missing.

Most are runaways or abducted by family members.

Some of the websites that have Edna's missing case listed, among other cases, have hers as a suspected non-familial abduction.

If you have listened to our show for some time, you know that the results typically are, for those abducted by someone outside of the family, are bad and even worse when you start to talk about a possible stranger abduction.

So Edna's travels to the stable is not the concern because, as the captain said, we have several folks that see her at the stables at some point that day, and some that state that they even spoke with Edna.

So she made it there just fine.

But as the story goes, Edna was last seen leaving the stables and has never been heard from again.

Okay, she's 15, but there's nothing to suggest this, but maybe she's filled with that teenaged angst and defiantly walks away, leaving her family and old life behind.

It would not be the first time that a teenager would run away from home.

But again, there's nothing to suggest this.

And in fact, there are some indicators that suggest she had no intentions of leaving her family, especially her mother, who loved Edna and the children dearly.

So a little digging here from the Charlie Project webpage regarding Edna's case, it states, although Edna had been in foster care as a child and she had recently argued with her sister, now we should point out we are unsure of which sister.

She had multiple sisters.

There's no indication she had been planning to run from home, and she didn't take any money with her when she left the house, only taking with her a pack of cigarettes.

She wasn't dating anyone at the time of her disappearance, so no older boy to lure her away on a rebel lover's runaway.

She simply left the stables and vanished, gone for 50 years.

And possibly, very sadly, maybe gone forever.

Let the captain state the obvious, right?

if you're going to run away and you decide that you're going to visit your pony first you're not going to invite your sister along with you doesn't make any sense oh well let's go visit my pony and then on the way home uh you just go back to the house and i'll run away and start a new life doesn't make much sense at all yeah and there's nothing inside the home well possibly we we'll get we'll get to digging a bit deeper here but on the surface at least there's nothing inside the home to suggest that she would want to run away and then think about her situation It's early into the summer break.

She's going into high school.

She has the sisters, and as you said, invited a sister to go along with her.

At the time of her disappearance, Edna was just 15 years old.

She was about five foot one inches tall and approximately 105 pounds.

She was wearing a striped shirt and bell bottom jeans.

She has brown hair, brown eyes, and she was a smoker.

As we mentioned, when she left her house, she left left only with a pack of cigarettes.

In fact, this is something that I think gives further insight into this case.

It's reported by multiple people that she left that pack of cigarettes behind at the stable.

So, as said, the reports are that she was last seen leaving the stables, never heard from again.

I would like to know a few things here, right?

The details of that statement and from who, right?

Last seen leaving the stables.

Who did that come from?

And what are the details of that statement?

Also, who reported Edna missing and when?

That info has been requested by yours truly.

What does the great William Joel say in Allentown, filling out forms, standing in line?

A song about another Pennsylvania city.

That's basically where we are.

We are likely weeks away from that information making its way to us if it ever does, because who's to say that the information even exists?

It's been 50 years.

We'll find out.

We've looked into other cases, a few other cases going back this far.

And sometimes it happens where the file or information that should be, may once was in the file is now no longer.

So that could be the case here.

It's not terribly uncommon with a case this old.

One thing we'll know as,

and I can say this proudly, former smokers, I think this is interesting because this also messes with the timeline.

Even if you had a definitive time stamp of when she left the stables,

as once an avid smoker, if I'm taking off and I'm walking back home, I just visited my pony.

But as I'm walking home from the stables and then I realize, oh, I forgot my pack of cigarettes, I'm walking back to the stables.

So this becomes an issue because, like you said, I believe there's family members that own the stable and there's family members that are at the stable.

So even if you have eyewitnesses saying, well, I saw her leave.

So then you could have all these assumptions of, well, if she was abducted by somebody, it was between the stables and her house.

But if she headed back to the stables to get the pack of cigarettes she left, who did she come in contact with on the way back or who did she come in contact with?

again at the stables and we just don't have eyewitnesses of her coming back around for the second time, if that makes any sense.

Well, and that's where I'm curious, and that's why I filed for the information to see if they would, the Philadelphia Police Department would give us the report or at least the statement that they got from the individuals claiming to have seen her at the stable.

Because I wanted to know, is that just it's 50 years old.

And we've learned something here in the garage covering multiple cases that the longer, a longer, on a longer timelines for these cases, especially when they go unsolved.

It's like a game of telephone.

Sometimes something is suggested or speculation, and then it morphs its way into fact or a statement of fact at some point.

And so, what I'm wondering here, Captain, is did she leave the stable?

And if she did, did someone actually physically see her leaving the stable?

Because there's also a chance that she went missing from the stable itself without willingly leaving.

Right.

And I'm throwing that out there just because, you know, the reports could be from these individuals.

Yeah, she was here.

I spoke with her and then, you know, she was gone.

Well, where did she go?

Well, I assume she went home, you know.

And like you said, former smokers, anybody that's a smoker, former smoker knows a couple, couple things are going to happen here when she leaves.

She's either going to return realizing she left her pack of smokes.

And as a former smoker, I'll tell you, I'm not trying to tell people, you know, there's nothing better than just walking down the street and puffing.

Man, if they weren't terrible for you, if they didn't kill you, man, I'd be puffing one right now, walking up and down the summer streets of Philadelphia.

Just holding your microphone, walking down the street, living

in this life.

Oh, man.

Anyway, so she would return to get the cigarettes or stop off to pick up a pack.

God, probably like 25 cents a pack back then.

Or she would have came home.

She's 15.

Like, those seem the three most likely next places that she would be spotted.

And go ahead and knock all three of those options down because nobody's saying that that happened.

Yeah, so the thing here with waiting for this information, I think, you know, we should get it.

There's no reason that they would withhold this information.

You know, there's holdback information in every good investigation, but 50 years have gone by, and we're still sitting here talking about this case.

What also makes you think that if law enforcement had bigger pieces of evidence or things that they could release to the public to further along their investigation or maybe drum up new leads, that they would have periodically released more information.

We've seen that happen in other cases like Amy Mihalovic's case.

Yeah, and I think here what they have is a

true vanishing case where she just up and vanished.

She's not responsible for why she is gone, but there's no breadcrumb trail for them to follow.

Now, it sounds like over the years, people have come forward with information that very likely, due to the passage of time, police just cannot confirm if that information is correct.

And so,

with

this, now one breadcrumb here

is

after she goes missing, one of the older sisters got a disturbing phone call from a man who said that he knew what Edna was wearing when she disappeared and claimed that he had buried her

in

Pennypack Park.

Now, I want to be clear here because this is reported a few different ways.

The way that it is always reported is that this caller, this mysterious male caller, knows what Edna was wearing.

That part is consistent in every telling of this story.

What is not consistent is that he had buried her.

Other versions of the story states that simply states that she is buried in Pennypack Park.

So Pennypack Park still exists to this day, unlike the stables.

It's approximately like six to six and a half miles from where the stables were back in the day.

And I say approximately because it gets very difficult here right away.

This is a rather large park.

I don't know that it was the same size back in 1975 as it is today, but according to visitphilly.com, this park covers more than 1,600 acres of woodlands, meadows, wetlands, and fields.

The landscape of this rambling city park covers rolling hills, open meadow, and many miles of unpaved and paved trails that are great for hiking, biking, running, and horseback riding.

Visitors also find numerous historic buildings there, including a working farm.

Yeah, if I'm law enforcement,

you also wonder: is this just some sick individual that's going to try to send the family or law enforcement on a wild goose chase?

Because a large park that doesn't even do it justice.

You said over 1,600 acres.

Acres.

I mean, that's huge.

And some of it's wooded, right?

And some of it's wetlands.

The fields would be easier to search because that's the other part that's missing from the story.

When was this call?

Again, some reports stating it was a phone call, other reports stating multiple phone calls.

When was this call received or these calls received in relation to when she went missing.

Because if you're out searching fields, look, I've said this dozens of times and I'll continue to say it on the show.

I'm nothing but repetitive, right, Captain?

Let's not get into this.

Most criminals, most criminals, from what I have found, and you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes or any great scientist or any great understanding of humans or human nature

to come to the same conclusion.

Most criminals

are lazy or stupid or both.

And I love when they're both because when they're both, they are easily caught.

But

this falls into the stupid part.

Okay.

So burying a body is very difficult.

It's far more difficult than most lazy and/or dumb criminals would expect it to be.

Okay.

And I know this 100% from reviewing

dozens and dozens of crime scenes scenes and where bodies are located from our little garage stories here, but also from some education that I've received over the years.

Typically, what will happen here, Captain, is people, when a person sets out to bury a body, they'll go, all right, well, I'm going to dig.

Most caskets are what, six feet under?

That's what most people intend to do when they start out trying to bury a body.

But guess what?

Digging a six-foot trench rectangle in shape is very difficult, very laborious, very tedious.

It takes a long time and it's back-breaking work, my friend.

Unless you have a skid steer or a backhoe or some form of farm equipment or construction equipment, it's very difficult.

So typically what happens is people start off with that idea and then they bury the person in a very shallow grave.

And so if you were searching fields,

especially if this were in quick

succession after she went missing,

you would find her.

You would find that burial site if this were true information.

The woodlands complicates it, right?

If she were in the woods, that would be very complicated.

The wetlands, I'm out to lunch on wetlands.

I have no idea about trying to conceal a body in wetlands.

So, what I'm getting at here is I don't know that this information,

good or otherwise, could be confirmed by anybody.

I think that there is reason to believe a few different things.

Like you had pointed out, maybe this is somebody phoning in phony information, hoping to complicate the investigation, throw somebody off the scent, or it could be simply a prankster.

And unfortunately, this did happen a lot.

It still happens to this day.

But it happened even more so when you start reviewing these old crimes from the 70s and early 80s, where somebody would phone in some information and a lot of times it was punk-ass kids calling a grieving family or a hurting family just trying to get their kicks.

It could be many different things.

One, it could be, like you said, a prankster.

Maybe it's just some sick individual that wants to send the family on a wild goose chase.

Or it's possible that it could be the actual killer, but are they giving you correct information?

Oh, well, I buried her over here.

Go look over there because that's 1,600 acres.

That's going to take you a long time to search.

And, like you said,

hills, forest, wetlands.

That's going to complicate things.

Well, maybe she's not buried there at all.

Maybe she's buried somewhere else.

Now, let's throw a giant wrench into this narrative just to knock everyone off of their mark.

Edna may have been pregnant at the time of her disappearance.

TV's number one drama, High Potential, returns with star Caitlin Olson as the crime-solving single mom with an IQ of 160.

Every week, Morgan uses her unconventional style and brilliance to crack LAPD's most perplexing cases.

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High Potential premieres Tuesday at 10-9 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

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All right, we are back, you filthy animals.

Cheers to you, and cheers to your mother, your father, and all your distant cousins.

Distant cousin, distant cousin, your second and third cousin, maybe even fourth cousins.

And cheers to you, Colonel.

Not cheers to the cousin that

refuses to speak with you.

He doesn't get a cheers.

I got an email from one of our beautiful listeners.

You know, I sent out an email to get people's info for a shout-out for the people people that are kind enough to donate to the beer fund.

And one of them responded saying, Cheers from the people in the back to us.

So the people in the back, she says, are cheersing us.

And she says that she is one of them.

So a big shout out to the people in the back.

You know, we love the people all the way in the back of the room.

I do want to share this with you.

I had anybody that's afraid of

AI taking over the world.

So this listener was just curious if we were married.

so they went to google and the and asked google and their ai response to is the colonel and the captain married and ai responded no the host of true crime garage nick and the captain are not married to each other nick is married to someone else and

while the captain is married to his wife melissa

That's hilarious because, right, there's a lot of stuff that's not true in that, but that's hilarious to me because I think we were hanging out with true crime writer James Renner, and we were talking.

We had just met Tim and Lance from Crawlspace and from Missing Mara Murray.

And you had asked James, you said, Are Tim and Lance married?

And James's response was to each other?

So

it looks like maybe

AI and James Renner are the same.

So, okay, it's.

But just for the record, it'd be very sick because brothers shouldn't marry each other.

And also, I don't know who Melissa is, so I can't wait to meet her because I hope she's nice because apparently we're married.

Yeah, she's very nice.

There's a song about it titled Sweet Melissa.

That's an old one, Oldie, but I get it.

Okay, this case is now 50 years old as of this very day, today, June 24th, 2025.

So let's go back to when the case was 25 years old.

In the trailer, we suggested that maybe this case would have been easier for Philly PD to work this one had the case received any real media news outlet attention and had there been a reward in this case.

There were and are very few news articles about Edna, about Edna Thorne's case.

One with Edna's name in it was from 2000 from the Philadelphia Daily News.

This was a great article by staff writer Nicole Welsense.

The article featured on the front page of the Tuesday, June 27th, 2000 paper has a lovely picture of Edna smiling bright and big.

Her brown hair appears almost blonde in the black and white of the newspaper pages.

Nicole's article was about several unsolved and unresolved missing teen cases.

I took the start of her report and switched up the names for the trailer because so much of that part that she so eloquently wrote is true.

Now, at that time in Philadelphia, Dr.

J,

yes, the famous basketball player, arguably the greatest 76er of all time, one of his sons was missing, recently missing, and the case was receiving a lot of attention, like one would expect, plus a $50,000 reward.

However, Nicole in her article is not trying to take away from the severity of level of concern for looking for Julius Irving's son, but pointing out that, you know, a lot of other Philadelphia cases of missing people just, I mean, it's not going to, didn't receive the media attention that Dr.

Jay's son's case was was receiving.

Julius Irving's son, Corey, it was determined that he tragically died in a vehicular accident.

He and his car were recovered from a retention pond sometime later.

But they were looking for him for some time, and there was much speculation of foul play leading up to the recovery of

Corey Irving.

But in the article with Edna's picture in reference of her case, it was simplified as just the following.

This is from the article.

Quote, Edna Christine Thorne was 15 when she disappeared in June 1975 after leaving a horse stable.

That's it.

The article references several other missing teenager cases.

Now, it's not the fault of the Philadelphia Daily News that Edna has not been located.

It is not the fault of Philadelphia PD.

Hell, if someone evil had not done something so terrible to Edna, we would not be discussing this matter in the first place.

Edna likely would be living out the start of her golden years, probably with grandkids of her own chilling like milk, maybe still living in Philly.

The pregnant part is up for debate.

I want to be perfectly clear about that.

The information, if it's good information, great.

I'm so glad that they put it out there because it can only help to further the investigation.

And I'm assuming that this is all information, if it's speculative or fact,

that obviously this information has made its way to the Philadelphia police.

But as far as our internet investigation goes, Edna being pregnant is not confirmed.

Okay, we cannot say with certainty that that is the case.

We do know, according to all reports, that she wasn't dating anyone at the time.

But internet rumors suggest that someone within Edna's family might actually be responsible or be the one responsible for her disappearance.

And

this goes back to the brother-in-law that we mentioned

that had gifted the pony.

Yeah, it's fishy.

Yeah, according to family members.

And that's what I think is key here in this part that we found.

It's not according to a family member.

It states according to family members.

Edna's brother-in-law, Frank Ryan.

So this is the husband of her older sister, Elvira, who also goes by the nickname Dot.

So Elvira Dot Ryan.

this is not the same sister that today runs the facebook page

but it stated that this guy is a possible suspect in edna's disappearance according to the story this brother-in-law had sexually assaulted abused edna and got her pregnant there are other reports that state that he was at the horse stable on the day that edna disappeared What I couldn't find here, Captain, and you correct me if you were able to find it,

you had said earlier that someone in Edna's family, I think I chimed in and said extended family was the owner of the property where the stables were.

However, I couldn't find the relationship between Edna and the person that owns or family that owns

that property.

So, if it is extended family, it's not crazy to believe that maybe it's the brother-in-law's family or extended family that that owns that property.

And that would make it much easier for Frank Ryan to gift her a pony.

And then you wonder, is he just, look, is this just a good guy who's gotten his name tarnished and he's thrown under the bus by

persons in Edna's family?

Could be.

Or could this guy be a real shitbag?

Could be.

But so why would he give her a pony?

Maybe he's just a really nice guy.

Maybe he just wants to fit into the family.

Maybe he's just, you know, especially early on.

Hey, you want to get to know the family.

You want to get in right with the family.

Maybe that's what he's doing.

Or maybe the pony is a gift so he can do things that he shouldn't be doing with

a young girl, with an underage girl.

Maybe this is.

This is a gift to keep your mouth shut shut.

Yes, shut up.

If you like nice things, you'll keep your mouth shut.

How far does one have to go to keep somebody's mouth shut?

Because as this story goes, if he was the one that got her pregnant, this could ultimately destroy his marriage to the older sister, Elvira, or it could have him and Elvira being outed by the family.

It could have him with his ass ending up in prison.

There's all kinds of bad outcomes for Frank Ryan, if in fact these allegations.

Yeah, these allegations, if they are in fact true.

Yeah, it leads you to so many questions.

Like you said,

was this a gift to keep her quiet?

What evidence do we have that a sexual assault took place or was it multiple sexual assaults?

We don't know.

You know, there's nobody that I've heard that said, well, I caught him red-handed, right?

So then the question for me becomes, was this speculation before she went missing?

Because then her possibly being pregnant would be, obviously, that would give this guy a motive to get rid of her.

Because if it's just speculation that something happened, and he's saying, What are you talking about?

I would never do that.

She's, she's too young, and plus, she's your sister, and whatever.

But then he finds out, oh, well, Edna's pregnant.

Well, that would then confirm, or there'd be ways for them to confirm that he's the father.

And that would confirm the sexual assaults.

That the assault was real.

Right.

And so

a lot of questions there.

And we don't have certain details to point us in the right direction.

Yeah, her case.

So, when I first started looking at this one, I was, I remain intrigued, but I was initially intrigued because there were some other

cases that are close in proximity via the timeline, the time frame, and the proximity in distance, geological.

And there were disappearances of other missing teenagers or children around the time that Ednum went missing.

Now, one of the more well-known cases is that of Sheila and Catherine Lyon, the Lyon sisters, who went missing in March of 1975.

So the same year they went missing from Wheaton, Maryland.

But their case is,

you know, they went missing from a mall, a shopping plaza.

And the Adam Walsh case and

so many many other.

I mean, we've talked and touched upon, I don't know that we've covered any in great detail, but we've touched upon several serial killers that would go to malls, to shopping malls, specifically to find teenage girls because that's who they were targeting for victims.

And so that one stands out right away.

And there's details about that case that you know right away there's something very bad going on.

That case remained unsolved.

It's now solved, but it was for many years was unsolved.

And it's a very infamous missing kids case.

And then,

not just the

timeframe or geographical location proximity-wise,

but the nature of that, of drawing a line to Edna's case would be the sisters' ages at the time.

And then there's some others.

We have Wendy Wheaton, who went missing in May of 1975 in Media, Pennsylvania, as well as Tracy Ann King, who went missing less than a month after

Edna from Littlestown, Pennsylvania.

And then you have Kathy Beatty, who went missing almost exactly.

Yep, exactly one month after

Edna in Wheaton, Maryland.

So is there a possibility that this case is connected to something else and this Frank Ryan has just

got a bad deal here?

Could be, but what I can say is that there are multiple people that have gone online and went out of their way to suggest that Frank Ryan is not a good guy and that he

not only that they believe not only assaulted Edna, but also got rid of her, likely due to the pregnancy.

Well, two points here.

Go for it.

Two points here.

One, we know, like you were saying, serial killers go to malls or go to different areas, not just malls, but different areas to basically hunt for their prey.

But we've also heard from serial killers that sometimes they just, it becomes happenstance.

Was I looking for a prey and I'm driving down this road and I see this young girl.

And the other thing too is what we what do we see so often in these cases?

I mean, I think she's under five foot.

She's around 100 pounds.

A lot of these things matter, especially to these sadistic killers, because they want to be able to control them.

but also not just to control them when they're alive, but to be able to control them when they're dead.

And so if you're going to dispose of a body or get rid of a victim, it helps if they're a smaller victim.

Well, look at accused serial killer, the Long Island serial killer, Rex Tearman, who's a giant troll looking of a man.

Giant shitbag.

Yeah, ogre.

And he in his...

Look, we can sit here and go, okay, he's accused and he's not been convicted yet, but they found documentation inside his home on his computer where he's talking about the ideal victim for what he wants to do.

And he specifically references petite women.

And now that could be because he's sexually attracted to petite women, or because that a petite woman would make a good surrogate for the person that he actually wants to harm or murder, or because he's very large and presumably comes with some ogre-like strength, that it would be easy for him to control a small person.

And like the captain said, it would be easy for him to move them around.

Yeah, so my second point was, well, he was married to the older sister,

one of the older sisters.

So we should have some clue as what happened to this guy

since the disappearance of Edna.

Like, did they get a divorce?

Did Did this guy have other charges against him?

So Edna disappears, and then the way I understand it, Captain Elvira and Frank lived happily ever after.

So

we'll get into that in just a second.

I want to make sure I don't forget to mention some of the statements that have come forward over the years.

Okay, so one of them has been that

from two

younger dudes that were at the stables that day.

Now, their names are a mystery to me.

I don't, I've not found a place that they've been named.

But these

younger guys.

Yeah.

And keep in mind, like Frank Ryan would not have been an old guy at the time.

Like, he is married to Elvira.

And from my understanding, Mike.

From every bit of information that I could collect here, again, there's not a lot of it.

And it's difficult to confirm a lot of this stuff.

But it looks like he would have roughly been about 18 years old when Edna disappeared.

Okay.

So Elvira.

I mean, that's not

a three-year difference.

Yeah, three-year difference.

Yeah.

So Frank Ryan would have been about 18.

Let's say maybe 19.

Elvira would have been a little bit younger than Frank.

They get married.

And Frank,

these guys say that Frank was at the

horse stable that day and at the horse stable at the same time that Edna was there.

Right.

It wouldn't be crazy to think that maybe he offered her a ride.

The other thing, too, is that there are reports that Frank Ryan worked, he drove a truck and the,

it was a dump truck.

So he would haul trash and other items and then dump it.

And at least one of these guys says that Frank not only was using the truck that night and or the next day, but typically one of them or both of them would go with him for the purpose of collecting things, moving things, dumping things.

And he insisted that nobody go with him when he was in the truck.

And so he could have been, he could have, there's no nice way of saying this, he could have simply dumped her at the dump.

Yeah.

And who's to say that he didn't phone in?

You know, she's at the park.

She was buried in the park.

Or that could just be a prankster.

The other thing, too, it's not stated what sister.

It just says one of the older sisters was getting received calls.

And I say this because I think that if, see, I hate, I hate kind of trotting down this road.

Go for it because Frank's not alive.

So he's not here to defend himself.

But us little garage fellas here, we're not the first ones clearly to accuse this guy of wrongdoing.

It looks to me like maybe either Elvira suspected Frank and decided to move on, you know, not move on from Frank, just carry on with her life.

Or maybe I'm not saying that she helped him, but I think maybe she

was aware of the truth.

When?

Difficult to say, but I'm pointing that out just to suggest that

could there have been no phone call at all and Elvira just made it up?

Right.

All we know is that one of the sisters was receiving these calls.

I did have some brief interaction with one of the family members.

These were not questions that we were able to get to

because of the complexities that we won't get into

on this show.

but so let's super complex well it's not always easy to communicate with with people especially when you're when you're putting together these stories and you have limited time to do so so there's some very interesting things here okay so when frank ryan dies

uh

he passed away in june of 2020 there was a comment left on his memorial page by his wife elvira that states, I was 15, he was 17.

This is, she's talking about when they first started seeing each other and dating each other.

And then she goes on to mention that they later they get married.

And she says, some people predicted that we wouldn't last a year.

The first three years were the toughest, but somehow we got through it.

We went through a lot together.

It made us stronger.

He will always be with me.

I love you, Frank, today, tomorrow, and always.

Okay, nice, but

a little odd there with the first three years.

Maybe that has nothing to do with her sister.

Who knows?

Now, let's fast forward to three years later when Elvira passes away.

This is in November of 2023.

Her obituary, and not everybody gets to write their own obituary,

but regardless of who was the author of this obituary, it does not list Edna as a sister, does not list Edna as a relative, late or otherwise, right?

Doesn't say leaving behind her late sister,

you know, joining her late sister and after, you know, in heaven, nothing, no reference to Edna at all in Elvira Dot's obituary.

Yeah, which again

could mean something or could just mean that

I point that out.

No, I point that out for a reason because there there are other family members that never stopped talking about Edna.

Right.

I'm always very suspicious when you see the complete opposite by other family members.

And I don't know how quickly or what the relationship was with Elvira going forward after that.

Right.

So the mother,

according to the other sister, Deb, so Deb, Deb runs a Facebook page for her missing sister and has done so for many, many years.

This is 50 years later.

She's still running this Facebook page, still posting things about her sister, especially on her birthday, on her mom's birthday, and saying, you know, we miss you and saying, hey, me and mom got together and celebrated your birthday with, we ate brownies and I brought mom flowers for your birthday.

And I mean, very sad stuff.

And

very sadly, the mother passes away at the age of 96, lives to be 96 years old, never knowing what happened to her daughter.

And

the sister saying, mom said a prayer for you every day

from the time you went missing until the day she died.

She said a prayer for you every day, hoping that you were okay, hoping you would return, or hoping that she would figure out what happened to you.

Right.

And the reverse of that is a sister who there's no mention of

her sister Edna.

Right.

And then, like you said, but who wrote this?

Exactly.

You know, and also

it's tough because we, and I keep saying this for the last couple of weeks, we can only view these cases through our own lens.

And just like, you know, going back to like

the Brian Schaefer case, he goes missing.

The guy he's with that night, his supposedly one of his good friends, Clint,

wants nothing to do with it, changes his name, goes into hiding.

His brother...

doesn't seem to want to talk to a bunch of people about the case.

And we can look at these situations and say, well, if it was, if it was me, I'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

I wouldn't shut up about it until we got answers.

But obviously, we just won't know.

We wouldn't know that unless we were in that situation.

Well, and anybody in that situation,

I mean, hopefully none of our listeners have to experience this, but this is not something that anybody should experience.

But for anyone in that situation, whether your loved one went missing a month ago, two years ago, 10 years ago, and again, this is not on

Deb has done the right thing with her Facebook page.

And

I'm sure mom would have done, would have done more had she

knew to, and you know, we're talking the internet didn't exist for a large part of

the

when this girl was missing.

But read John Walsh's book, Tears of Rage.

That is almost,

there's chapters in there that feel like a handbook for what to do if your loved one is missing.

Yeah, but hold on.

What I'm saying is, maybe it's the right thing for Deb to do,

but not everybody in the family, you know, will deal with this situation the same way.

And

I think it's unfair to say, well, somebody didn't,

one of the family members didn't want to talk about it, so that's suspicious.

It's just a different way of dealing with it.

Yes, I'm not telling anybody how to handle any very difficult situation.

I'm saying if you want to increase the probability, the probability of your loved one being found, located, or recovered, read John Walsh's book.

That you know, he will tell you how to increase the likelihood of finding well, just a little kick, yeah, a little tick back to that, though, is they didn't have a lot of great information on Ottis Tool being responsible for Adam's death.

And when there were other allegations of people saying, well, they should look into Jeffrey Dahmer as a possible suspect in Adam's death.

It seemed like John Walsh kind of shied away from that.

Right, but he was the one that did him and his wife

Rave were the ones that were

keeping their son's story in the media and made it a national story.

That's what I'm talking about.

Forget about any other part of that.

Now,

back to our case here and back to

the family.

So, looking through the post over the years on the Facebook page, in 2012, so this goes to March of 2012.

Edna's sister Deb, she's, she is, uh,

there's some information on web sluice, on a web sluice thread as well, but this, I found this on the Facebook Facebook page as well.

She's excited in March of 2012 because she is saying

that

the police were revisiting the case and they had contacted family members and wanted to collect DNA from all the family members.

Now, this is great because,

look, Edna's case has been compared to several unidentified remains that have been found.

And I don't know that there's enough information on Edna to exclude her other than some

generalities, right?

Generalities being height

and physical attributes.

The problem becomes with this when you're recovering remains, you're oftentimes not recovering all of them.

Height gets very difficult.

I've talked about that on a couple of other cases where they've excluded somebody based off of height because it's one or two inches off.

And I say, nay, that's a terrible, terrible way to exclude somebody.

I think you mention that the height is different, but you don't exclude.

So anyway, them collecting the DNA is a good thing because if there were remains to be recovered,

they could compare that to Edna's DNA and then the familial DNA and see if there's a match, right?

Because before this, there's a chance she could have been recovered somewhere and it's never been linked together.

That's her post.

She's excited.

They're revisiting the case.

They're collecting family DNA.

Right.

Shortly after, within a couple days, there's another post that states

one of our family members refused, accepted, originally accepted the appointment to go and give their DNA, but then later the appointment was canceled, and that individual is refusing to give DNA to the Philadelphia Police Department.

Fishy.

And according, again, this is according to the family and their statements on Web Sluice and on the Facebook page.

They state that they were told by the police department that the appointment that was agreed upon to submit DNA was canceled by the individual's wife, who told the police department that he would not be coming down there, and he is not going to be giving his DNA in the case.

Look, we can't say 100%.

This post states that it's a family member later canceled the appointment and that it was the family member's wife that canceled the appointment.

We can't say 100% that it's Elvira and Frank Ryan that they're talking about because they were kind enough not to mention them.

But there's not too many coincidences in these cases.

And it would seem to be that all fingers would be pointing that that would be the most likely two people that these

online posts are referencing here.

Well, can I point out something that's a little sneaky, sneaky?

Hmm.

Is you were saying that, well, law enforcement,

if we have her remains or if we find remains and we need to compare them to your family's DNA,

Well, you would want the DNA from the sisters, right?

Because they're the ones that are related.

So you wouldn't necessarily need Frank's DNA because he's not technically related.

But if law enforcement is collecting DNA from the family and

we don't know this for certain because we don't have all the details, like you said, they were nice enough not to name these individuals.

But if the law enforcement is

contacting the sister and her husband to get both of their DNAs, they're not just trying to get DNA to identify remains.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

And I think you're exactly right there.

And here's why.

So I wouldn't, I don't want anybody to get to misconstrue what I'm saying here because

I don't think that this is an indicator that they have recovered remains that they believe are Edna's.

I don't believe that this is an indicator that they have

physical evidence that would identify the killer.

Right.

What you're doing here is

if able, you cast a wide net, especially if you're going back and re-examining a case that's that old.

So if I have my date right here of March, sorry, of 2012, the case at this point is over 30 years old.

So if you're, yeah, that's over 35 years old by that point.

So if you cast a wide net and what you're doing is you're going to collect DNA from anybody that's willing to give it to you.

So you want family and everybody that's one degree of separation from those

immediate family members.

So this would be mother, sisters, and spouses or

other persons.

And so here you go.

We can,

there's databases.

We can put that, if we have that information, we can put it into the databases.

We can figure out if she was found on the other side of the country 20 years prior and it's never been connected.

The other part of that, too, too, is

there's a lot of one-offs.

A lot of times, if a person is responsible for the demise of another, they've only kill one person.

But it's not a far stretch to say whoever is responsible for Edna's disappearance and likely murder, it's not inconceivable that they are responsible for other crimes that may have physical evidence that's sitting in databases out there somewhere.

Yes,

that's exactly where my mind was going.

Is this individual didn't want to give their DNA because they know that there could be other cases that can confirm what some people in that family believe is that this individual is a monster.

This case was brought to us by Lauren Fritzki, a true crime-obsessed freelance journalist and content marketer based outside of Philadelphia.

She has followed Edna's case and other local cases like it for the last 20 years and hopes this episode can help bring justice to Edna and closure to her surviving family members, which includes several siblings.

If you have information regarding Edna's whereabouts or information that could further the investigation, please call in a tip to the Philadelphia Police Department at 215-686TIPS.

That's 215-686-8477.

I want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week.

Make sure you subscribe.

Make sure you tell your mother, your brother, your father, and your third and fourth cousins.

Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?

Only tell the relatives that you believe would submit DNA

should something happen to you.

Because the ones that you don't think, you don't need to be friends with them.

All right.

This week we are recommending what happened to holly bobo this is a podcast available on abc's 2020 podcast feed abc news correspondent and good morning america co-anchor ava pilgrim she was kind enough to come on off the record with me so if you're already subscribed to our show off the record which is on patreon and apple subscription you may have already listened to this episode if you haven't go back and listen to it because ava knows every in and out of this case, and it's a very twisty and turny type of case.

Anybody that's followed this case knows of the twist and turns, some of them, and more are coming to light as it would appear.

What happened to Holly Bobo is a series, as said on ABC's 2020 podcast feed.

20-year-old Holly Bobo was abducted in April of 2011.

Her partial remains were found in 2014.

The death was ruled homicide.

It was determined she had been shot in the back of the head.

We covered this case in October of 2017, True Crime Garage episodes 146 and 147.

So really a lot of stuff here.

If you want to dive into this case, you can review our off-the-record episode.

You can review our two old episodes.

And don't forget to go and check out the series that is now available.

on ABC's 2020 podcast feed.

So you can find that recommendation and many, many more podcasts, documentaries, books, lots of different recommendations for you available.

If you need some more true crime, you can find that on our recommended page, truecrimegarage.com.

And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter.

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