Screw Master 3D Live Review: 15% D30 retention & 80k+ daily revenue? The real hybrid casual KPIs

Sometimes we are swapping between RV and interstitial impressions.

So, even though you, as a player, requested to watch an ad for an RV, we might be showing you an interstitial ad,

which might feel to you like a faster RV experience in a way, the 30 seconds timer that you mentioned before.

Because

the first impression of interstitial sometimes generates better performance.

So, we have some like sophisticated models behind the scenes that are trying to optimize towards the higher payer, either if it will be an interstitial ad or an RV ad, but for the placement that is RV in the game.

And that helps us squeeze the best TCPMs out of every depression, let's say.

It's 4 a.m.

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Mate drops knowledge made of gold and ice.

Felix with ads making those coins rise.

Jack up designs, worlds chasing the sky.

We're the two and a half gamers, the midnight crew.

Talking UA adverts and game design too.

Mateish, Felix, Shaku, bringing the insight.

We're rocking those vibes till the early daylight.

Matay, you aim as your eyes on the prize.

Tracking data through the cyberspace skies.

Felix stacks colors like a wizard in disguise.

Jackups craft our realms, lift us to the highs.

Two and a half gamers talking smack.

Slow hockey stick, got your back.

Ads are beautiful, they like the way.

Click it fast, don't delay.

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It's all of fun.

Hello, everybody.

Welcome.

We have a very special episode because Felix says

this is very special, but we always have a special.

This is a very, very special episode.

We are going to be like Ultra Special anytime soon.

But before we start, my name is Matte Lanceric.

I'm Felix Broberg.

And I'm Jerker.

And we are your host.

Are your hosts?

We'll be sleeping at the wheel.

maybe next time

uh and why is this special because we're talking about screwmaster 3d and we have guy and samantha from the team so it's a live review welcome guys

can you introduce yourself and the company and the game and everything

samuel first ladies first yes sure

so hi everyone i'm samantha i've been working in gaming in the last seven years plus minus in Supersonic since the start of it.

Currently, I'm leading the growth and creative activities in Supersonic, and it's great to be here.

Thank you for having us.

Awesome.

And I'm Guy.

I'm leading the new games unit in Supersonic.

We are working with

various studios all over the world

from ideation all the way to Global Aunch.

Awesome.

And we are here to talk about Screwmaster Screwmaster 3D.

And kind of, I mean, we started this journey of talking about the hybrid schedule a long time ago.

So finally, we have you guys here as well.

So we can talk about all the fun regarding the Screwmaster 3D because we read interesting things about retention, profile, and whatever else that you were able to share, and how you were actually working with Chinese developers, and how you are translating witch and mini games towards the West.

So, let's start with our usual approach where Jakub opens the emulator, I'll go over the game, and then we kind of ask questions.

We have a lot of questions, loads of them.

And then, also, look, we are going to talk about a few things, numbers, and then you correct us if we are in

kind of the right,

we like,

yeah, yeah, exactly.

If, if we are, yeah, if you're right, just blink twice.

We can talk about it.

Okay.

Yeah, so let's talk over the game as usual.

The first, so this is, I think, the fourth or fifth kind of game from the screw series that we're doing.

Yeah, it's growing like crazy.

Yeah, yeah, the like whole physics genre, which kind of fits our unique puzzlers

prediction that's supposed to be, especially this one, because this is, again, if I understand, it's still a deterministic puzzler, meaning that the levels are still the same in between the rounds.

Similarly, like color block jam is currently killing it on the other Lego front, which is not really opposed, but yeah, the screw category, let's say, is growing very, very fast.

So

the game itself is, if we start here,

following on the screw jam thing, basically, which was

these plates that you had to kind of unscrew, and there was pretty much two-dimensional gameplay, really, to it.

And now we are moving more towards 3D.

Same with Screwdom, and Screwmaster is pretty much going for that.

I guess that also helps with UA because these shapes are, as you see here, quite familiar.

It's not really just like plates here and there.

And we also have the usual tension mechanic, which is coming from the pass

gem and all these other role kind of titles where

there's this kind of bench setup where you cannot go over your bench, otherwise you lose.

And you have predefined slots that you can or that you need to populate.

And these kind of as we let's say

we finish this one, a new one comes in, and then it kind of continues there.

The model itself is very kind of zoomable and elastic.

These levels take much longer time, as we have said before.

This is not your typical two to three-minute puzzle.

This can take sometimes like 10 to 15 minutes.

I've seen worse.

So that's there.

And yeah, it's very engaging because, again, it's physics.

So once we start to actually unfold this thing, it's going to fall apart and then reveal more of these

blocks as you progress and eat it like an onion from outside to the inside, which then comes the hard part where decisions really need to be made.

Where I gonna run my bench full, the tension for these two ad placements is gonna be very, very strong because suddenly there's literally no moves for me to move forward other than either using boosters or watching the placements, increasing these things.

And

yep, that's it, pretty much.

I think very, very light meta for now.

Like I just saw a few events yet.

That's one of my questions later down the line, but yeah, that's it.

Can you give us a little bit more, like your view, guy?

I guess I can background because I can't keep playing and talking at the same time.

Yeah, it's very hard to play and talk.

For before before you guys, before you start, I get I we started with uh with first screw, well, screw freely, whatever game review some time ago.

And then someone from China actually reached out, like said,

okay, it was.

And there's like, this is a very big hit anyway in China already.

And this is also something that you've done.

So can you talk a little bit about like how did you adopt this for global markets?

Like what was the actual process coming from on when yeah or when yeah or when like how did you come up from like we chat and like transfer this into into vest

so i will start

we are always on our

way of exploring uh new markets and we focus uh pay a lot of attention on on on which

to see what works well we we follow the top charts what's popular mechanics As you said,

this school mechanic is very popular in the last year.

We see it not only in China, by the way, in Vietnam as well, super

popular.

And we are tracking

the retention of those games and we try to find this,

we call it juice.

I don't know how popular is this term, but to look for this

juicy part in the game, of course, supporting by the data.

Once we see it,

So we are getting deeper to understand

what they miss or what can we do better

with this game.

And that's what makes us in this case to move forward with the EO games, our partner, our

Chinese partner.

In this case,

it was that simple.

The retention was amazing from first place.

We saw something very hooking, very engaging with this game.

And we thought that with a bit of work, with

some

tiny

changes,

we can scale it up really, really fast.

And that's what happens.

Sam will elaborate about how we scale it, but the fact that we could do it in a very, very fast pace says a lot about

the hooking part or the juice part of this game.

So, how does that process look like in terms of the, like you said, the speed?

So, let's say today

you find a great game with the great retention and juice in WeChat.

How long does it take you to actually transform that into West and like launch?

So, in this case, it was like super speed, like in less than

three minutes.

Supersonic, yeah.

It definitely meets our values

and values.

So, the speed in this case, especially that this market was,

I wouldn't say saturated, but it's definitely had the

great term.

I would just also add that it's about working with the right partners, and we could give a lot of credits to the studio as well because they're very

fast-speed with Supersonic, and they were able to adapt and implement and follow the guidelines that we were giving them in a very efficient and

high deliverable way.

So that also helps of course depends on who you're working with.

Do I get it right that there's a Chinese studio?

Yeah.

And therefore, okay, this is the other question on top of it.

Were they the ones that like captured the trend and told you like, okay, we should hop on this trend?

Or was this some external team initiative that you have like recent team or like I mean like who's the one watching watching the WeChats?

So, we have our team in

APAC,

amazing team that based in

Unity Beijing.

And they are always

looking for new games, popular games.

We're not trying to invent from scratch anything.

We just like to find the things that most users like.

And once we

pull it out, we work very fast to scale it high.

Would you say it would be possible even if you wouldn't have a team in APAC, like a Chinese team?

Like you would be able to do it from West?

It's much more complicated.

We traveled

to China several times, to Vietnam.

The local team is super important.

I would say that the cultural differences and

the mindset can be a bit different.

So you need to have your team that can

speak the same language.

Yeah.

It was so important when we went to China, Joe last year.

And then we were talking to the local devs, and my brain was melting after a few hours there.

It's just like it was insane.

And you can't get this experience from outside.

You just need to be there on the ground.

Indeed.

Fully agree.

Okay.

So, Jakob, anything regarding the game this year?

I wanted to ask right here, I'm just super curious.

Like, what are can you talk a bit about the session lengths and how many sessions per day you have?

It's like pretty good for this drawing.

Ah, yeah.

I thought it's a session.

I'm asking what the session lengths are, but yeah, maybe cut on it out so you don't actually have to say a real number, but yeah.

So, so

uh

it depends but we do see plus minus uh like three

a day

with a a good portion of gameplay

it really depends on the stage of the users if it's in in early stage of the game or later stage

but we do see that the sessions are very deep it means that they watch a lot of rewarded video they are fully engaged with each session So

we are trying to follow their engagement rather than a specific numbers.

Okay.

Yeah, I could just go and open up the center tower data if we are in the

what are we talking about?

Yeah, because then we can again, like, you can blink twice because we do these reviews and we only have the external data points, and we have some like a feeling of if this is right or wrong.

Saddles multiplier.

We call it saddles multiplier.

So share your feelings with us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like if you got the actual sessions and then the active users, and then we said we can check if this is

true or not, or at least like what do we think?

Yeah,

it's between three to four sessions a day, and the sessions, as Guy said, are pretty deep.

So it's a

good estimate.

Here comes the first question I have from the admon side.

So there's a lot of companies from Vietnam and also maybe Lion Studios, I guess, that monetize quite heavily with an interstitial on App Open or making it rewarded.

What are you guys' thoughts on that?

And I'm assuming you must have tested it, right?

Not in this game, I would say, but definitely it's something we tested, the App Open interstitial format.

I won't say that we saw huge success with it yet.

And it's a bit,

in a sense, it's a bit aggressive, yeah, because even though it's usually a very fast static image or it depends on the ad type, it's something that it's at the beginning of a session and it's one of the most valuable impressions in a way because it's the first impression a user is going to see.

And so far in our A-B test, I won't say we have a strong opinion about it, and it's definitely not something that we are yet implementing by default in new games,

especially in high-retention games.

Interstitio is something that we are thinking about carefully in regards to how to optimize.

First, we want to understand the users, their behavior, to be able to do the best setup and experience for the lowest churn and the maximum LTV we can get.

Yeah, because the main monetization point in this game is the unlock box rewarded placement, correct?

It must get at least 70 or 80% of the rewarded ads because it's so prevalent.

It's a hard game.

It's not easy.

Yes.

Yeah, that's the whole point.

It's a hard game, but very forgiving.

Like, we are not punishing the users.

Like, we can talk about other meta events that other games are doing, but we're trying not to punish the user.

So even when you fail you can start over and you have many

exits for this failure

yeah like the revive we offer is basically the same as the unlock box

and the unlock box in-game is a very successful placement is generating above 60% engagement rate

and I think it works really really well because you know it's first of all it's the best in-game booster we have by far and it makes it easier to complete the level faster for the users it's more dynamic and fan fun to play and

and we actually have seen that this sense of a mastery in this type of games is something that users like players are seeking for so giving them this opportunity

to advance faster and to win at the first try by having all these different RV offers in the level is something that is very successful,

especially on a Schoolmaster.

I played the game and you know, I've watched a lot of rewarded ads as a result, right?

And I can't help noticing that majority of the rewarded ads are on a 30-second length and like five to ten second end card.

What's the kind of thinking and experimentation around that?

Because it's probably one of the hottest topics for publishers because networks push for you know, 114 second, let's say, right?

And then they always say it's the best thing since sliced bread.

And then your attention figures tend to disagree.

Right.

So

I will say that we are not that strict with

how long an ad that is showing in our supply should be, let's say.

We do see that it's becoming more common on the user acquisition side, let's say, to run longer videos, longer ads, and they do generate like good performance, high CPMs for the monetization side.

But we on Android specifically, I don't know, like, what did you play, iOS or Android?

I played iOS, but this is Android.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

On Android, we are more strict because of all the better ads experience policy.

So we are watching out a lot for the timers and the length of the videos in our supply.

But on

iOS, a bit less.

And if you caught exactly 30-second videos and 10 second end cards it's probably by chance because you would also get longer ones yeah

did you try it with the shorter ones and longer ones what kind of ecpm degradation did you see as a result

like on the monetization side yeah

so we did like no because you need to basically if you want to a b test that it's like a very complex a b test it's not a setup that you're doing on our side it's a setup of the networks, right?

And we can, we do always ask the networks to keep certain guidelines in terms of length of ads, especially on interstitials, a bit less on rewarded.

But it's not usually always

one-to-one.

There's always ads that are longer than what you expect because the user doesn't know where to click or how to click it in the right time.

So it doesn't matter how long you set the benchmark for, the whole experience is a bit different.

We do use

ad quality

to track the overall length and quality of the ads running in our supply and to make sure that we minimize churn.

And if we see that there are certain creatives that are really causing like a high churn, then we will go and block them, remove them, try to be more strict with their video length, let's say.

So ad quality, I think, is the place we go for the analytics behind it.

And based on the specific cases we see, we might go and decide to do optimizations around that.

But there is not like a set

rule if that's what you're looking for.

Yeah.

Do you use that those creatives that are causing high churn

to inform your brainstorming sessions and then use those creative angles to create new creatives?

Okay, we're mixing now.

We're saying if I take

a moment,

I know, I know, I know.

It's a different

thing.

Yes, I'm just,

It will be okay for me, but basically, of course, we take insights, let's say,

from creatives that are running in our supply.

We try to understand

what's working best, what's taking the majority of the impressions, what's trendy beyond just what we can get from a sensor tower, of course.

So the creative team, let's say, is connected into the platform of the mediation in the sense of understanding the ads that are running in our game so that they can get inspiration, ideas, trends, and so on.

Yeah.

Yeah, so mixing things.

So for those of you listening, just recrystallize this.

So level play is one of the biggest advantages with the creative review tool there.

It shows churn.

So basically you can see what creatives are causing the most churn from your game.

So clever UA managers have figured this out.

Exactly.

And when I'm talking to the different UA managers, like they're like, oh my God, we can do this.

Yeah, well, of course, you can.

You just need to run.

Yeah, you just need to use level play and add quality.

That's it.

Do you want to go through the numbers maybe?

And then I want to ask the rest of my admon questions after that.

Let me finish the product first because I think that's that that's the part that we hopped around a lot, huh?

Yeah.

I mean, it it that's why it's called discussion.

I mean, come on.

So

the why I'm still stuck here in the main menu, uh that that's my question here, like what would be next or what's the current plan?

Because I know there were the theme pack mechanic that we were talking before, and then suddenly after I updated the game recently, they're no more.

So, do I get it right that I have the latest build here, and this is how it's supposed to look like?

Yes, so we are testing the theme park is definitely

a good part of the game, an important part of the game, but we

need to remember

we are alive like

more or less six months, and we always exploring new ways to improve our product.

So, we take it in and out and try new stuff, and A-B test, and and probably you are part of an A-B test right now.

So yes, the theme park is there and we even

supposed to take it one step higher and

to combine some limited time events on this theme park.

Like not only a theme park, it has,

for example, a Christmas wrap or

whatever, Saint Patrick's wrap.

So, we are working on it, and I guess you are part of an A-B test right now.

Okay,

because I know I saw it, and for those like

watching this, this is basically how it looked like there was this kind of symbol during the gameplay that would have this percentage as you fulfill it, and that at the end of the level,

again, this is something different, I guess.

Another variation rather than Team Park, this is coming from something like we did.

The

Dreamy Rooms was the game.

That's a similar answer.

So, again, another iteration, I guess, for some meta-progression.

But do I get it right that basically what you're doing, you're testing different kind of visual-based meta-progressions and trying to find out which one sticks the better in the current state?

Still didn't figure out the one, yep.

Indeed.

Actually, we want to make sure the players always feel a sense of progression,

especially since some level can be longer, as you as you mentioned earlier.

That's why after every level we have a new decoration, it's added to the park and we have have some kind of we try to have some kind of a smooth animation that shows the progress.

The key is to always give to the player a feedback to their gameplay,

some kind of accomplishment.

And that's why we have this on the right side and top right side, we have this progression that once you feel it, you can see how it was placed

in the theme part or it's part of the meta.

Okay.

And okay, that sounds right.

So, my guess is that, like, at some point, somewhere downloaded line, you figure this one out, and that will be the like the main visual progression.

Similarly, like some other games on hybrid casual genre, going really back to something like

Hexasword or Block James,

like they all did this like unlocking picture and stuff like that.

I know it spread like wildfire like two years ago.

My other question is, what about the event meta?

Do you plan to kind of hop on the usual bread and butter tactic that everybody is doing now, which is kind of similar to Royal Match, where you have these very speedy trigger events popping up from left to right, kind of driving the user towards the main progression, like play-level based saga at goal cost basic, then we give you more motivations, track your progress in between with like leaderboards, feed time events, so on and so forth.

So, not for now.

I have to

be honest, yeah.

Since we have more like ad-oriented model

and like uh

I think a solid difficulty curve, if you feel it's it's harder, uh we can we can debate about it.

So we are um

let's say we are not ignoring it, but we we wait with this approach and maybe for later stage

or we wait for this game to be a bit more mature.

The games require some kind of uh s skill and lucky elements.

So we're trying not to punish the users.

And when I play a Royal Match, which is an amazing game,

I always afraid to fail, to lose.

Because of strict mechanics.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Because of the strict mechanics.

And at the moment, we don't want the users to feel that way.

More relaxing experience, basically.

Yes, yes.

Although it's,

I can accept

it's the levels can be a bit hard, and we still want to keep it more relaxing.

And maybe in later stage, when the game will be more mature, we will take this approach.

But at the moment, we prefer to take it solid.

Let's finish the difficulty question because this is my like really one of the biggest questions that I have here is

in Screwmaster, when I was looking through the other screw game, especially once we review Screwdom, like the genre leader with IP revenue,

in those games, or let's say in Screwdom, you can click on an object and make it transparent to see screws that are behind it, over it, pretty much like make it somewhere that you

put an example here.

So, what I'm talking about, yeah.

So, for instance, these blocks, I don't know what's there, but if I click on the block, I see what's under it or what's hiding, which makes the thing much easier, much easier.

So, which is very smart, I have to say.

Yeah, yeah.

So, was this a deliberate decision that you followed?

That, like, for instance, difficulty curve is better this way, or did you test it, or what's your take on this?

So,

since it's a Schoolmaster is still a new games, we are at the moment focusing on more refining

the core, the level design, the APS

of each level.

Before we're moving forward,

we are actually

used it for inspiration, the screw-through

as an inspiration for some new ideas that we are working on at the moment.

But

for now, we are focusing more on improving the level difficulty to find this sweet spot.

And we believe that the see-through can

disrupt it.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's why we prefer not to

develop it at the moment.

And we are working on some great surprises that are inspired by this

great feature.

Yeah, that's great.

Because I can fully understand that it could pretty much take the game to the point where your design space to create difficulty gets very limited.

And I guess that's like a giant hammer on the difficulty pretty much.

So yeah, yeah, I can understand.

Thanks.

Shall we then move to the numbers then or Felix?

What do you want to do?

Yeah, numbers and then add add questions.

Yeah, of course.

So

what daily active users, your favorite metric?

Let's look at downloads first and the IP revenue, right?

And then just to get an idea.

So downloads are unstable somewhere 40k a day, again, as multiply replies.

I think so.

But then

with US being first, so pretty good traffic.

And then revenue-wise, again, this is only IP.

We don't see add one statement.

That's the question, like what's the actual revenue split?

The revenue split here it must be eighty or ninety percent out

because

you watch so many rewarded in this game.

Yeah.

That was my my assumption as well.

Based on the active

user base as well.

I mean, come on.

It has to be

yeah.

We we can we can uh confirm that it's a very heavy IAA

game.

There's no doubt around that, but

it still generates some in-app purchases, and we're still, as Guy said, on the very early stages.

So there may be changes that we see going forward also regarding that.

In fact, the most popular

IP products are like the skip-its and the boosters.

And it says a lot about the fact that the main focus on this game is like on rewarded videos.

They watch the users watch dozens

a day.

Okay.

So if you go to actual retention profile, if you have one, then

we can then compare the notes because you release some numbers

which says well I have it here day one retention is 45% but then there's day 30 which is 15%

and then like is also.

Let's see what sense of US numbers or global or what's the I can

US.

Okay, well,

yeah, we have US,

we have one 11% day 30, which is okay, so we have 15,

and then I would say day 19 should be also quite strong.

We have four here, but what I would say, well, like six, seven at least,

yeah,

definitely.

We like this is uh,

I think what makes a Screwmaster in our eyes at least a hybrid game.

Like the way we're looking at a hybrid game is not necessarily it has six percent IEP revenue, but it's mostly about the stickness of the users, how long they can play this game for and the deepness that we can go in it.

And Screwmaster has like pretty good benchmarks, I think, for the world of hybrid casual when it comes to retention.

We do see around like between five to seven percent average, let's say, on day ninety.

And

I think the sustained engagement that we generate in this game is what leads us to keep it at a high scale for such a long period of time.

And it's like it's what we're looking for.

You know, the revenue comes with it.

The moment you have like a good strategy on ad monetization, and with time, we can also optimize further towards heavier IEP.

If this is what we are aiming for, you know, it's all a matter of of like

building the right game with the right potential.

Yeah.

Well, that was my question next.

Like, okay, well, can you imagine if you flip the 80-20 to 50-50,

this can generate

such a high amount of IIPs, which, I mean, it's easier said than done, obviously.

And I'm the UA guy, so I think it's easy.

So

my question question there is just like with those insane retention numbers, right?

You do monetize with interstitials.

Interstitials absolutely destroy retention, but you still have quite a lot of them.

How do you balance that?

So, I think in Supersonic, like the way we're looking at the ads optimization, we call it like full-screen ads.

It's a combination of both interstitials and RVs.

But you're totally right that interstitials usually have like a negative correlation to retention, let's say, and it's something that doesn't go hand in hand.

We are trying to first, as I said, understand the user experience, you know, see how they're playing, what they like, how they engage, how often they're watching an R V at understanding when they get hooked to the game before we add interstitials into the pie.

And the way that we are A-B testing interstitials is a lot

softer, I would say, than the usual IAA games.

So here it's on clean interval when it feels like very, like a very natural pause for the users in the game in between levels.

And it doesn't seem disruptive, let's say.

And we know like

interstitials in a way, even though it is negative towards retention, if balanced well, is actually something that we are looking at as like a pressure point even to convert users into IEP, right?

And I think that's one of the beauties of what

the hybrid market in general is showing to the industry is that if you do it in the right way, you will minimize the impact to retention, but you also push those high quality users to make their first deposit, even if it won't be a high value deposit, because it's very common if you think about it to pay so you don't have an ads experience in many different platforms, right?

Even outside gaming.

And interstitials is that sort of like mindset for the gaming world where you have the option to play in a more premium environment if you make a payment to remove ads and/or buy skip it or other formats that you have that are like lower costs.

And it gives you, as a studio, let's say, a very early signal into who are my high-quality, potential paying users from a very beginning stage, you know, because those will convert they convert fast okay that's super interesting so how do you control the cooldown timers and how do you kind of segment the user base on the back of that

how do we control the you the cooldown you mean like what technology

do you control it or does everyone have the same ad experience or what felix is asking like how do you do your segmentation if you have any meaning that you don't repeal the pairs by interstitials too soon rather kind of move it somewhere there later until they manifest and then split it into these guys going to get interstitials, these guys not, because those are pairs or any kind of similar system.

Jacob, I'll just say you speak very fast.

Yeah, oh, yeah.

Welcome to two and a half gamers.

Just take that into account.

So much knowledge, no time for slow speaking.

Welcome to two and a half gamers.

This is every time

I get an answer for you.

How do we do it?

So, you know, like, first of all, as I said, we don't do it from the get-go.

We first of all run clean of interstitials on the beginning because of the sensitivity of it.

We understand the KPIs and the players'

journey throughout the game, let's say.

Once we feel like we understand our players, that's when we'll start thinking and brainstorming about different setups for interstitials, different triggers, intervals.

We're usually A-B testing.

We don't have something that we go live with without having, first of all, an A-B test.

And the A-B test takes into account, like, we have pretty sophisticated A-B testing systems in Supersonic, even from back in the hyper-casual times.

And we are looking at all of those KPIs.

So we're taking into account depositors rate, we're taking into account total, you know, RPPU, we are taking into account total LTV, trying to understand it.

the best group and to do it for a long enough period of time that is what we validate as a good statistical significance for us to go live with.

So

again, it's like it's a matter of optimization, I think.

And the main points that we optimize is usually facing placements, triggers, you know, these sort of things, and try to set something that is a bit more standard.

Usually, users that will have a high engagement with RV

have like a longer grace period for interstitials because the timer or the way we're looking at it is kind of connected, as I said, as a full screen experience.

So, in games like Screwmaster, where you have such a high engagement rate from rewarded ads, you're usually naturally not seeing a lot of interstitials, even if we have this sort of interstitial setup, because the intervals they take into account any sort of a full-screen ad.

So, it makes the RV

engaged players have a more premium experience and still lets us monetize for those that don't.

And as

players, usually, this is happening pretty quickly.

Yeah, like the FTDs, the first time deposit happens like at a very early stage in the game.

So we are already able to understand who are the payers.

And what I said about pressure points of interstitials is for those that didn't do that on the usual early stage, we still push them to do it at later stages by having these commercial breaks.

Very cool.

So I guess that's a really good segment for my ad revenue estimate here.

So I think

that you guys are generating anywhere between eight to eight and a half rewarded ads on 65% of the user base, along with five interstitials on 75% of the user base.

And according to my estimate.

75%, you're saying?

Yeah.

On rewarded and 75 on interstitial.

So eight rewarded ads and five interstitial ads, meaning that you're generating anywhere between 40 to 50k a day right now from ads.

I can tell.

That's too low.

That's too low.

I can't tell

by the look at sounds like honestly, yeah.

Like I'll say that, like,

yeah, first of all, yes, it's wrong.

It's very low.

It's a lot higher than that.

Even in the DAO sense, the amount of impressions we're we're showing is way higher than what you're saying.

But

think about it: that in a good game, not a great game like Screw, usually you're getting a 40% engagement rate.

Yeah, so in these type of games where you're heavily dependent on RV, it's part of your progression in a way, then it's mostly speaking to almost all of the users.

Like the engagement rate is very, very, very high.

So it's like 85 to 90%.

yeah 80 plus there you go so my estimate felix would be anywhere between 80k to 100 at least per day

yeah so that 90 brings it up to 75 so that's on high that's on high okay

i i have a really interesting

on the high end of what you're saying sometimes like i won't see that number but it's uh definitely towards that high nice

Here comes a really interesting question on the back.

Yes, Felix Satisfier.

Even a broken clock is right twice today.

But here comes a really interesting question.

So

if you have that high rewarded ads, the impdal, right?

One of the main things that happens is that you have ECPM degradation because of the recency effect.

Like networks pay less for subsequent impressions than they do the first ones.

What are some strategies that you guys use to kind of keep the ECPMs high when you have such a high impact?

So it's a great question.

But

yeah, so first of all, I would say that you're totally right, that this wear out of the ECPMs or the degradation of the ECPMs is something that is quite painful when you have a game that is so highly engaging with ads.

But it is what happens.

And I think that the way we are optimizing it is through different sort of optimizations.

One thing that we have in the back end, let's say, that it's not something that you see, is that sometimes we are swapping between RV and interstitial impressions.

So, even though you, as a player, requested to watch an ad for an RV, we might be showing you an interstitial ad,

which might feel to you like a faster RV experience in a way, the 30 seconds timer that you mentioned before.

Because

the first impression of interstitial sometimes generates better performance.

So, we have some like sophisticated models behind the scenes that are trying to optimize towards the higher payer, either if it would be an interstitial ad or an RV ad, but for the placement that is RV in the game.

And that helps us squeeze the best TCPMs out of every impression, let's say.

And in addition to that, we also have, of course, what the industry has, yeah, as a benchmark, which is capping

mechanism.

So we are optimizing around how many impressions to show users on each of the placements, especially the placements like we mentioned before, that are top engaging placements.

Usually you want to generate the highest engagement rate that you can, because that means the first impression of a unique user and that every single unique user is very valuable.

But once you're already squeezing that placement into 15 plus impressions, you sometimes prefer to cap it.

So you keep the experience a bit more premium in a way.

You give users that also that like nudge to go towards maybe an IEP direction rather than just ads.

But the important,

I think, thinking behind the capping is just to make sure that the users don't feel like they're being punished, that it feels a bit more natural and not like something negative or a penalty in a way that you're capping these sort of rewards.

As Guy mentioned as well, we want to give the players like this,

what's the word you used for it?

It was a very nice word.

I forgot now

giving a poach yeah yeah this like an easy experience or

give them the chance to pass the level you know and not have that difficulty too high so basically yeah so we want to give them the ways to crack the level to feel like it's easier faster but we also want to cap the rewards to make sure that we are keeping some sort of like premium CPMs

for any advertiser that is buying out of Scrum Master.

And you never

hide the unlock box rewarded placement, right?

That would make it too hard.

Have you had any luck experimenting with the really cool feature on Level Play with the

where you do ad units and where you can optimize on that and you do setting up bid floors and you send basically

different requests to different ad units?

You mean like the like what

legacy-wise is called like a waterfall by placement or multiple?

No, so essentially it's a really cool feature where you send the first couple of impressions to one ad unit and then on the back of whatever ecpm floor you saw for the user there, you then send it to e CPM buckets where you have bid floors that artificially keep the like the bid high.

Yeah,

sorry.

So basically having multiple waterfalls, you're saying.

Yeah, bid units, essentially, yeah.

Yes.

So we are testing that.

I would say it's like a relative, like if it is the feature I'm understanding, and maybe I misunderstood it still, but like if it is the feature I'm understanding, it's a relatively new feature in level play.

And we're definitely testing it to try.

The idea behind it is pretty similar than what I said before between ECPMs of Interstitials and RV.

Here is just about setting the floor.

Today with bidders, the problem is that if you set a floor and you don't have multiple waterfalls, then this is true for everyone.

And then it kills your revenue a little bit.

So, by having the multiple waterfall setups and getting like competition to be tougher in a way, it helps us raise the bids we're getting, the CPMs we're getting, and the overall outcome.

But it's still something that we're testing.

Yeah, like I can't say that it's something that we're fully live with because it's relatively new.

Yeah.

Final question before we move on to you,

skip it.

How did you guys test that?

How do you decide on it?

It's a very hot topic.

It's a hot topic and it's an old topic, I think.

No, like

nobody figured out the solution.

But

we'll make it as a hot topic for today.

So, skip it,

they kind of became like in our eyes at least the standard, yeah, in hyper casual, and especially in high RV engaged, the hyper-casual games or hybrid casual space in this case.

in my opinion, is just like a recognition, like a recognition of the value of rewarded ads and what we are offering.

And especially in games that have a high engagement rate, I think that skip-its help us also save that,

how did you call it, degradation or something like that?

Because instead of having another ad, you just this time skip it, right?

So, users who love the game, but they don't want to spend too much time watching the ads, and you know, like they would just buy these packages of skippets.

It's usually part of like most offers we have in the store, and the mindset behind it is almost like a subscription model.

You buy a set number of skippets, you have like an X amount of playtime potentially that you can do without having to watch ads, just skipping it.

It's a better experience.

It gives the users a taste of what it is to be premium.

You know, we all like the free trial periods, let's say.

So it's something around that in terms of like, I think of how it works and how it speaks to players.

But, you know, Screwmaster, to be honest with you, we're just like going with skippets from the get-go.

So it's not like we did crazy, sophisticated testing behind it.

Because for this type of offer, we do see

it's a pretty standard thing for us today, and it works.

And now that

I would say the economy becomes a bit more complex once you add skippets, so we are trying to fully analyze it and understand how we can make it better in the sense of like more

well-fit and integrated to the overall economy of the game and how to evolve potentially from it, maybe

gems and not skippets, maybe a different currency that goes more like that speaks broader to the game.

But it's still something that we are working on, let's

Sam, while you are talking, Jacob watched another rewarded video in order to

get it right that you consider it pretty much as a part of a normal feature set for heavy ad-driven games.

That's why you didn't hesitate or like I beat us, because I know we talked with this about multiple

hyper casual publishers and they were kind of on the fence.

Like, in this game, it worked for us, this game doesn't work for us.

So, I guess it's like works for air-driven games, period.

So, for the games that are

very high engagement, a ton of impressions a day, like impressions per DAO a day, I think it has a huge value.

Usually, we don't see like we tested it enough in the past, I mean, and we had games that had these sort of KPIs before.

So, we usually see it's a positive

result, a positive lift to the LTV.

And it can also help generate purchases, right?

Usually.

So it's like a win-win.

And we just went live with it.

Now,

there is a thinking behind the economy of skip bits, yeah?

Like, it's not like we go live with any sort of setup.

It's not something that we are

besides for the economy, I feel like it's something that it became pretty standard for us.

Let's go to UA because Jakob is tagged.

Yes, Jakob is stuck.

Yeah, yeah, Jakob is stuck.

You can watch another unlock box.

That's fine.

It's fine.

It's okay.

It's okay.

It's okay.

So,

well, we always talk about the UA of kind of let's call it hybrid casual games, and

it's changing quite a lot.

And I mean, I'm pulling out like the May 2025, which is now when we are recording, but I'm pretty sure like the UA channel mix changed quite a lot since the launch until now.

So what was the like kind of initial UA channel mix or the strategy when you were launching the game?

And okay, so

basically

we have some sort of like a standard in Supersonic, which is usually starting with big channels that we collaborate with.

So on the beginning of a launch, I would say we're opening about four different channels, Google, Facebook, Iron Source, and Unity.

And that was also the case for Screwmaster.

We launched the campaigns in these channels.

Some of these channels, and some of the campaigns we use, they require some data and signals before we are able to open up, like VO and

such.

So, we wait a little bit with it.

But

these are the channels that we are starting with.

And then, after we have a little bit of a better understanding of ROAS across different channels,

then we are starting to open the rest because we work with a lot of channels.

Yeah, I see.

Like, see basically everything in Central Tyrone.

I'm pretty sure there's more.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

So basically, that's how we are launching it.

And for Screwmasters specifically, I would just say that one of the

unique things we saw, even though you know, like supersonic iron source is like a family, but we don't usually see that

what we saw in screw which is basically iron source scaled like we opened budgets in iron source and it scaled like super aggressively like we managed to increase our spend like week over week from like a i know much lower numbers to like 50 60k daily spend just on iron source nice without damaging the roas and one of the signals that we are always looking for when we are launching is capping you know how fast we are capping on our campaigns And that's always like a good sign for us if we're capping quickly and we have to open up budgets.

So here we just went very high because we saw that the cap was happening very often.

Yeah.

It exploded.

And it was like pretty insane because we haven't seen that since like, you know, very back in the days, hyper-casual times, let's say.

And that gave us the understanding that this game is going to be very big and very good for us, yeah, nice.

Uh, so and then,

oh, wait a second, let me check if you are.

So, you mentioned VO.

Okay, I don't see TikTok here, so I guess you're not running anything on TikTok.

We are,

I wouldn't say that in these, we love Sensor Tower, we work with them, but I wouldn't say in these dashboards they have the most

information, yeah.

So, I'm also looking at impressions, it will always be Mintegral,

Yeah, I see, like Mintegral all over the place, and Unity and

a little bit of YouTube.

But I guess like the current UA channel mix is different for you.

Yeah, no, we are running with definitely we're running with TikTok.

And we're running with like basically all of the different partners, also incentive channels.

Yeah.

Nice.

So then what's the percentage of the budget going into different channels?

Do you have like one big ones, or like the four that you mentioned are the big ones, and then the rest is just kind of there, just in case?

Also, there are some big ones that are also not in the four that we start with.

The four that we start with is just the ones that we set as good launch partners, let's say.

Okay.

So the distribution is different.

It depends if you're looking at iOS or Android, first of all.

And

I would say that usually we do tend to see like three channels that are dominating and then the rest competing with each other for the like

for the rest of the budget let's say but usually there's about three maybe sometimes four that are very very strong in a game and it's also the same thing for screwmaster okay and you're i guess you're optimizing made mainly for address rather than just anything blended

like

well no we use blended campaigns as well why not you know what i mean like it's not it's not going to damage anything.

It's just going to give us the additional lift that the IEP revenue has.

And we do want that to be a signal that we buy from.

So, whatever we do have hybrid or blended options, we are using that.

And where we don't have, we're using separate campaigns like VOIA on Facebook and VOIEP, right?

So we are optimizing for both.

Still, we have enough IAP signals for that, for the IAP campaigns.

Okay.

But we're trying to get all the revenue users type.

Yeah.

Of course.

Of course.

And I see obviously, like, based on the channel mix, you have the videos and playables.

But I guess still for this type of game, I mean, the playable

is always like a better kind of format because you can play, you can get the feeling and kind of qualify users basically.

Yeah.

So

to be honest, like, you're right.

Like, I don't have much to say.

It's true.

The playables

in the format.

What we're seeing basically with playables is that it generates like

higher engagement in terms of the users that we buy.

Like they stay for longer, they have better retention.

Playables usually are not

scale oriented in a way.

Yeah, like they're more like the IPMs, the best IPMs we're usually getting from videos.

But the best performance overall, especially for games like that, is coming actually mostly from playables.

And I think that

it's it was for us at least, I won't speak for everyone, but also from our partners in Google, they said that this is very unique.

That to see that playable standalone is something that was taking most of our spend also on Google, which is not something

you are actually the second company that were able to say they are

can get scale on playables on Google.

Seriously.

I've never seen that.

Our partners on Google also said that this is not something that they are usually seeing, but but yeah, it happened.

Like we had a very good playable um that we created based on a video and it just took scale over all channels basically, not just SDKs, which is usually what you expect.

So in that case, like how do you how do you approach the creative testing and then

how often you refresh creatives?

At that

scale, because you mentioned 50, 60K per day, I'm pretty sure you are somewhere

plus or minus still, maybe a little bit more when you thought you said that you have 100k per day, kind of.

I mean,

not saying you said that, but I looked at that, it might be in that range,

kind of assuming it's either you spend anywhere between 80k or even maybe if you kind of optimize for let's say 90 day payback period or more, you say you spend even more than 100k.

But I mean, that's a different part of the question.

Let's get back to the original question.

We spend a lot and enough, let's say, for this game to succeed and to reach the best ROI we can.

But the way we are like, we first of all, we have like a very big team in Supersonic, like a very big creative department, to be honest.

And the way we are working around hybrid games is a little bit different than the way we used to produce for hyper casual.

Like, where in hyper casual, it's all about, you know, quantity and scale.

And in hybrid, it's a bit more about post-install metrics, performance.

And, you know, if you have a scale from a video that is very good, but the quality is really low, then you won't keep going with that, right?

So you need to iterate.

So, on the very early stages of testing a new game, we're trying everything basically: levels, color, gameplay moments, trying to stay true to what's actually the game experience that players will get in those early stages,

understanding the motivations that users are looking for,

which I said in Screwmaster, it's like a sense of mastery, relaxation, progress.

This is what's working for us.

Afterwards, once we understand what we want, what elements from that we want in our creatives, that's when we are

iterating.

Like, we, of course, do a lot of market research.

We're looking at quality sensor tower, trying to understand the trends with the screwing genre, let's say.

understanding what works, what's picking up, and trying to add those sort of like hooks into our creatives to sustain like a good CPI, keep scale scale going.

And

basically, we are producing, I would say, quite a lot of

video and playable iterations, and some percentage of the time also trying new, completely out-of-the-box concepts.

But what we see works best is mostly like going with the trends, iterating on what's working, a video that is working really well, just doing like voiceover on top of it, doing

UGC UGC style together with the video or the playable, and

trying to take the best videos and make a playable out of it, or the other way around.

So, we are like trying to maximize on what we see is working after we are at scale and a little bit also explore new things until we find some new concepts that might be good and work as well.

But it's harder to generate

success from new concepts, I would say.

So, so how many new creatives do you produce a week?

A lot.

A lot.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, I would, I would assume.

So I don't want to say a number to give you a lot of.

I would expect at least 20 to 30, which is like the bare minimum.

And what you just I mean, I'm playing while you were talking, I'm playing like, I think sixth playable, which is completely different concept.

So

that's quite a lot, which is amazing.

Like different levels, you mean, right?

Yeah, yeah, completely different.

Yeah, different playable, yeah, like this is well, this is a video, but still, I'm pretty sure like this is eventually a playable as well.

Because, yeah, well, this is again like a new playable, which is which is quite a unique concept.

Unplayable is also one of the things that we are always, of course, looking into.

It's like the

longer experience, right?

Like the number of taps, how long will like players need to engage with this playable until they're sent to the store.

And as I mentioned before, like the IPMs usually that we are seeing, at least, I don't know that this is true for all of the industry, but at the moment on Screw specifically, we're seeing that playables generate lower IPM, although better quality, and they dominate scale, right?

Like they are taking most of the spend.

So we understood also that there is a lot of optimizations you can do around just the number of taps or how we call it like an endless playable experience, you know, to get the users to really hope.

That's what I'm just doing now.

Yeah, it's like it's I can tap and just play forever.

We'd have finished it by now.

I would just say that.

Probably, yes.

But yeah, so we're trying to do this very long

experience where you don't even remember you're playing an ad anymore and you really want to just keep going, you know, and that's usually also generating very good quality users.

that do come to the game already understanding what they are getting.

Yeah, because

I think we had this discussion with some of our friends that they said, look, like longer playables basically work way better for them because, again, like you said, you qualify users and you can play

until forever.

But then there's the other opinions like, oh, well, but then

players just will play the playable and then they will just churn and then they don't care about it anymore.

But do you see better performance for longer versus shorter playables?

So it depends, like, I I would say, in terms of post-install metrics, we see good performance with long playables.

Yeah, good, like, retention, good long-term KPIs, but it's not the only thing you're looking for, also, right?

So the shorter playables experience, they're more, I guess, catchy in a way and to have higher chances of converting.

And then it's a balance between both, you know, like as long as you're keeping it true to the gameplay and you don't completely crash or ROAS, should be both of them should be like a best practice you know testing it and each channel also UA channel I mean may bring different performance we do see by the way connecting it to the monetization let's say that the longer ads they don't run it necessarily on the same supply as the shorter ads

so it might be that also by having this variety of longer playables, longer videos versus very short videos, very short playables, reaches different different types of apps, right, like supply sources.

And then we are kind of like growing the incrementality of what we can get because they're not cannibalizing each other or competing with each other, even with being the same UA channel.

So yeah.

Yeah, because when I when I always talk about the creative depth or like the number of concepts you have, like you kind of you need to diversify, like you have static images, videos, playables, but then this is another level.

You have shorter playables, longer playables.

It's the the same thing with the length of the videos.

You have 30-second videos, and I saw one-minute, 30-second-long videos.

Again,

so many different options just to get better scale.

You have the bumper ads, like five-second videos.

So it goes all the way.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

So you said you have all like the big team on the creative side, which is amazing.

A lot of the different people don't have that.

But you have so many different concepts.

Like, how do you then test them?

Like on

different channels?

Maybe let's say how to test them on the biggest channel you have?

Yeah.

So um

so we have like a pretty set uh testing process, I would say, that initially

is on is happening on Facebook.

Yeah.

Like this is our main uh test platform, I would say, for creatives,'cause we just upload a batch of like a few and we can compare the the the best performing ones quite fast with low budgets.

But in general, for hybrid games, I would say Facebook can't always be the best representation, it depends on the scale that it is on the game.

So, we are also testing

if we truly believe in a concept and it's a high-production, let's say, concept in our side, we might test it directly also on the main campaigns.

Okay,

lower quantity, I would say, and just to understand if this is something that can work or can't.

The only trick trick side of it is that some channels may take a while to give a chance to new creatives.

So it takes time, but if we did a high effort in the production of it, we will still give it the chance, you know.

Yeah.

Do you also force it in that case just to get impressions?

Because, well, obviously, like, there's a high chance of all the kind of gaming studios have tons of creatives, but then you have five winners.

That's it.

And then it's pretty hard to kind of give the chance to the new concepts.

And then, if you have a big creative team, they are going to be very

not angry, but sad that they are doing all the work, but they're not getting enough feedback.

Right.

So, I will say that

because we are one unit, right?

Growth and creatives, and we're pretty aligned, we are also

collaborating a lot on what do we need and for what channel do we need it.

So we don't just produce and have no space to test it because test needs time sometimes.

And there's nothing we can do because not every channel allows us to push impressions into a certain creative.

And it doesn't always make sense to make a dedicated campaign that will compete.

So it depends.

But I would say that we are usually syncing with them.

like UA managers and creative producers to let them know like what channel needs the most focus that we haven't seen like some that is starting to get a fatigue let's say and we want to to develop something for that specific channel

and and then the creative team will build something that it's also more focused on where we need right because also different UA channels have different sort of a

creative strategy

yeah okay

well i'm i'm i'm playing all the videos on the back and it's just so many of them and this is face

amazing yeah yeah it's just uh it's perfect so i mean you said like you are getting all inspiration from all the like competitors, what's trending, center type or whatever, whatever else, and ad quality as well.

Okay,

I love it.

I would say that I can add a little bit.

I don't know how much more we're talking about it,

but I would just add that

we are, even though we are a big team of creative in Supersonic, we are also really like into AI

and exploring all the different

companies basically that are out there.

There's quite a few

that are offering pretty interesting products and making it really

much easier or better for the creative team to be able to generate more with less effort, you know, and to like optimize around like winning creatives in a more efficient way.

So, yeah, so we are also like very much into that and trying to do as much as we can with the help of AI because we think that for the creatives world at least, it's something that is really there already today, like that can be very much maximized.

Yeah,

we're also very into AI.

Yeah, we are also into AI.

I saw you're working with Pool Day for sure because I saw the face, the whole avatars.

Well, I work with them as well.

And the question is: do you see if you slap a UGC on top of the gameplay videos you have, do you see

better metrics?

Or it's just like, I mean, it depends.

Because what I've seen is just you slap a

face or a UGC on top of this kind of like, let's call it hyper-casual visual style, it drives higher CPIs.

Like, okay, so I would say that full day specifically, it's something that we started testing

maybe like

I would say like maybe two three months ago like it's not a very

long time supersonic but it's definitely like UGC is something that we were doing before with like real production like actors that were like doing these sort of like videos for us and you know we had like collaborations around that but it took a lot of effort and the beauty let's say with pool day is that it's just like you know like very very easy and you can make a lot of them and it looks real in a way.

Like, you don't always see that there is like some delays between the person speaking and the voiceover, but

it's like working for Supersonic at the early stages.

I won't say that there is something huge that we saw from it, but we do manage to generate scale with a normal performance.

It's just we haven't yet seen something that is very sustainable yet with the creatives.

We had there's like a peak and then it will go down relatively fast.

But I will say that in the games that we are testing, which some of them are also hyper casual, we haven't seen necessarily only high CPIs.

So we did see some wins and scalable productions of a pool day that

worked for us and also in Screwmaster, yeah.

Just not sustainable yet.

Yeah,

we use it.

Yeah.

I mean

well you always well you you always save.

Maybe.

I will see.

that's

that maybe you don't that's the motivation like save the save the puppy you know

i mean this is amazing uh i think the only

i mean all the questions just comment which i had

and was kind of part of that long question regarding the creative testing was like the level of spend so i would say you're kind of optimizing for that like day 90 maybe even longer because your retention is really strong so i would say well like day 90, day 120, maybe 180 at some point, which then unlocks quite enormous spend.

So, I mean, that's just

my comment, just a way of thinking, which then

is

an interesting exercise for you, just how to add new channels into the UA channel mix on a monthly basis, which can be quite hard.

So, how do you decide like what kind of channels do you

add?

Yeah.

So,

it's all of them.

So, no, so of course no, like I wish it could be all of them, like,

just to see what works best, right?

But, like, there is cannibalization between channels, right?

There's something that it's not like easy to control, and we see it a lot between incentive channels, let's say, and some channels on Android.

But in the end of the day, what we are looking for when we are adding a new channel into a game is performance, right?

So, if if it's generating a really good performance and it's scale like allowing us to scale like because if it's a good performance we'll keep opening budgets until we see you know that it starts hurting performance so we would just keep on optimizing based on that

and give the best channels according to the different games the chance to succeed we don't have like we're not collaborating with every single channel out there in the new street but we are exploring a lot of new channels channels these years

this year specifically and testing incrementality in our site to understand better how each one works and the influx of new users that they are actually bringing instead of just cannibalization.

Yeah, so we are testing that.

We have a marketing

like analyst science team that is also helping us with all of that and

hybrid games or high retention games.

That's why I said this year we are focusing on new channels a lot more, just because it's a different, there's different types of channels that could work now for us that maybe on the hyper-casual classic games didn't really weren't really relevant, right?

But once you have a good retention game, there's other channels that become more relevant.

So, that's what we are trying to explore and find who are the best partners for us.

Okay, well,

I think I ran out of questions.

I mean, this is pretty

episode.

This is awesome.

Really good.

Thank you so much for sharing all these really valuable insights.

This was one of the better ones.

This is really valuable.

Thank you so much.

Anything else you want to share with the audience?

I'll say it also.

I'm very open here, but that you're blurred.

Yeah, Felix, I want to like that.

It won't work.

Yeah, I'll upload it in a higher, including you.

Yeah, I mean, as soon as we stop talking about it.

Yeah,

exactly.

As soon as we start talking about UA, he's like, I'm just i'm just go away fade out fade out

well now anything you want to share uh with the audience i mean obviously we we will uh add all your contacts into the said message i'm sorry but it's not it's just because why are you reading the same name for me you know oh yeah it's yeah it's mate for for felix as well i'm not sure like he does this on purpose always yeah it's on purpose it's funny

I want to say like two small things.

One, I want to encourage everyone to play the game and share their feedback.

We are doing games for users, so we are looking forward to getting as many comments and ways to improve the game because this is what we're doing, this is what we like to do.

And second, I'm going back to the beginning of the conversation about WeChat.

Every time, oh, here's the park.

Yeah, just in the meantime, I wanted to tell you how unlocked it, so we just moved there with the camping barrack here in the bed.

Yeah, so

every time that I'm traveling to China and Vietnam and exploring a platform like which

it makes me be more humble.

And I think that we all understand that there are many ways to make games, and not only one.

And this is one more thing that I wanted to share about our philosophy.

Like there are many ways.

We just need to be humble and look for

new ways to do this.

That's very good.

Tom, anything on on your end?

Except like the the winking on the budget estimates?

Yeah.

Yeah, if you want to share something with the audience,

we don't expect that we get it.

It's pretty good.

As I said, we love what we're doing.

It's like really fun working in the industry.

There's always new things, new challenges.

AI is coming out.

So things are always like, you gotta keep yourself updated.

I think this channel that you guys have, it's like a great place to like learn, grow knowledge, connect between people in the industry.

Like we know here, like a lot of people are like listening to you guys.

And we are all watching your

deconstruction of games.

And it's really valuable.

So thank you for that.

And yeah, we're happy to join.

It's like it's a pleasure.

We feel like stars now that we've been here.

Confidently stars.

You're definitely stars, that's for sure.

Well, dropping acknowledge is always the uh the headline of this podcast which is amazing so thank you very much for coming and also the listeners thank you very much also for listening this was longer one but full of insights thank you join the select channel if you have anything to ask being a guy and sam and uh see you next time thank you very much bye bye cheers