Club World Cup vs Gold Cup, Drama in the Manchester Derby, and Promotion/Relegation in MLS

Weston, Tim Weah, and Gio Reyna. In this matter, it's important that U.S.
Soccer and Maristio Pochettino say, absolutely zero chance I'm playing without those three. It's not going to be pretty, man.
Welcome to Unfiltered Soccer with Landon Donovan and Tim Howard, presented by Volkswagen. Volkswagen has long been a supporter of soccer in America and has proudly been a partner of U.S.
Soccer for the past five years. LD, what's up, brother? Listen, I just want to start by saying it was so good having you on my side of the country.
You don't often come this way to New York City because you were very much a Cali boy. Did you enjoy it? Please tell me why.
I cannot explain to people how cold it was. It was so cool.
We got to do a Times Square takeover.

Shout out to the marketing team at Sinclair,

Nicole, et cetera, for setting that up.

Really cool having the LED banners behind us.

If you haven't seen it,

you can check it out on the social media channels.

But Tim, it was so cold, dude.

Like standing there for 45 minutes,

I could not wait to get out of there. And honestly, it took me 45 minutes inside in the warm to stop like sugar i don't know how you do that dude at one point you you're trying to talk to me and your jaw was like starting to freeze and you couldn't i couldn't speak which is a real thing i know it was it was fun man.
You know what I love? I think maybe pre one of our World Cups, we did something in Times Square. But I'm also thinking, I feel like you and I have had a decent amount of success in the game.
And I'm like, I'm not sure I've ever stood in Times Square with my name plastered on a moving billboard. You might have.
You haven I haven't. That was insane.
That's cool. It was awesome.
Really, really a lot of fun. Reminder, guys, follow us on social media, Unfiltered Soccer.
Subscribe to the show on YouTube. Make sure you follow Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
If you love what we're doing, please send comments. You can ask questions.
We love to get your feedback. You can also email us at feedback at unfilteredsoccer.
Alright, Timmy, should we start with USLNT on the USMNT? Quite a weekend. Our guy Gio, who I've had a lot to say about and has been in the news, Gio Reyna, started two games this week, scored an absolute bomb on the weekend in Dortmund's draw, a 1-1 draw.
I just want to say, you know, like when people see headlines or they see things we say, this happens all the time in my life and I'm sure for you too, people say, oh, why did you do that? Or why did you say that? And I'll say, what are you talking about? And they'll say, well, I saw the headline that day. And I say, well, did you read what I said?

Or did you read the article?

No, no, no.

I just saw the headline.

I say, okay, go back, read the article, read what I said,

and then let's have a conversation.

Totally.

I, by the way, I am in Gio's corner.

I want Gio to succeed.

I want every national team player to succeed.

We're fans.

We're fans of the sport.

We want to see the sport grow. I was on our group chat saying LFG when he scored the bomb, right? That makes me happy.
It doesn't mean we're not going to be honest, and it doesn't mean we're not going to be unfiltered. So everyone's excited about that.
I'm excited about that. I just want to remind people, and this is not to be a Debbie Downer, you know how many days it's been since he scored his last club goal? Tell us.
583 days. Okay, so I'm happy for him.
Amazing and a great goal. But everything I said last week still stands true.
If that's the way he's going and playing well and scoring, great. Stay at Dortmund.
If not, find a place to play. Whether it's MLS or Holland or Mexico or wherever I could care less go somewhere where you are playing especially leading up to the World Cup so happy for him let's hope knock on woody can stay healthy now he clearly deserves to start again to play again and let's hope let's hope this continues yeah look I I'm so excited for Gio Reyna because he's a kid, right? So he'd hate me for saying he's a kid because he'd probably look at me and say, no, I'm a grown man because this is what kids do, right? I tell my daughter the same thing.
She's a little girl. She's like, no, I'm not.
I'm going to college. She still has a lot to learn, right? As they all do.
Why I'm so excited for Gio Reyna is because he's a generational talent. You know, people constantly come up to me and you.

I could, if I clicked on a search engine right now,

they'd say, when's America going to produce the next great world-class player?

And when are we going to win a world cup?

That's the question on everyone.

This is a world-class player.

He has, he has generational talent.

He and Christian and maybe one or two other have generational talent that we've,

that we've rarely ever seen. I'm excited for him because he's 22 years old he's a baby do you know how much pressure he's had on his shoulders his dad who we played with he's a captain of the U.S.
men's national team those aren't easy shoes to fill right you then have to go over to Europe you then have to you then have to carry the weight of of a non-goalkeeper, right? Because US goalkeepers had a ton of success in Europe. You've got to be the one to go over.
And you have to start in the Champions League. And you have to start in the Bundesliga.
It's hard, man. It's hard.
And he's young. I'm excited for him because over the next couple of years, his growth and maturation, I think, is going to skyrocket.
And he now has an opportunity to go, no, this is mine. This isn't my dad's.
This isn't any expectation. This is just me.
And I'm figuring out. Because by the way, he's figuring out how to play football at the highest level.
He's figuring out how to be an adult. I mean, these are all, we all dealt with this.
It's impossible. And most people fail.
And I'm just so excited for him, you know, that he's back playing. I love that he's got another opportunity to play again.
that's what it's about ld it literally is about saying particularly as an american i've said this quite a lot about myself about christian when he was at um chelsea about so many of my teammates it's different when you're an american you'll never convince me otherwise which means every single day you've got to go out and train and perform like your life depending on because that's the only thing that's going to get you in a team. So I was super happy for him that he produced.
And you know what? He was rewarded for it. So long may that continue because I think it's awesome.
Yeah. Let's hope it continues now.
He's got to stay healthy first and foremost. That's been his biggest issue is like staying healthy.
So long may it continue. Two other Americans at at uve what a goal if you have not seen this go check it out on youtube weston mckinney scores off a tim way across if you're an american soccer fan you were jumping around your living room you know what my biggest takeaway is though yeah when i watch that and i see the clips on social media etc i'm excited but i excited, but I'm not like out of my boots, over the moon.
I can't believe this. And you know why? Because those guys have gone over now and done it consistently.
And so you don't get overly crazy. And by the way, French players, Brazilian players, Spanish players, people aren't going crazy when two of them link up for a goal in the Champions League now because they're used to it.
And we're starting to get to a point where we're used to it. Kudos to Tim Weah and Weston for a great goal.
Beat City, by the way, 2-0 in the Champions League, which I think everyone's beating City these days. But still, congrats to them.
What a goal. I mean, I think that what you said is so poignant.
Like the fact that expect two americans to just be on the field for uve and to perform is like wow we've come a long way we've come a long way and that's that's not a we thing that's a that's a massive credit to weston and uh yeah that's a thing i mean they are they are putting that work in every day also what i love about them is they've got you've got that pizzazz man they've got that arrogance that i just love and and you know particularly attacking players but um you know weston for me is special man he he he's got an engine like no other he breaks things up constantly he's always on the go you know he gets the ball off of our center backs and our goalkeeper and our fullbacks and then the next thing you know that's your expectation and then he creates tempo. Next thing, you know, he's getting on the end of a header at the back post, like constantly being dang gold dangerous.
And I just thought, you know, we throw this, we throw this turnaround box to box midfielder. And I think it's lost its luster a little bit because of your double six and the pivot, your false nine.
Like he's, he's really very much a box to box midfielder. And, um, yeah, I was super stoked for those guys.
Yeah, they were great and another good weekend. Interestingly, FIFA announced, and this will impact both of them.
This could impact Gio Reyna as well. Yeah, at Dortmund, yeah.
Yeah, that they are not requiring clubs that participate in the Club World Cup to release their players for national team duty during that time. So that means the three of them, conceivably, for Juve and Dortmund, respectively, could play in the Club World Cup and then not be available for the national team in the Gold Cup.
My first take on all this is, at what point is FIFA going to just stop throwing more games and more tournaments and more? And the players are suffering, right, physically. Now, it's fun to play in some of these tournaments, and it's novel, right? To play in a Club World Cup now is exciting in some regards.
But the coaches suffer. Now Pochettino's like, okay, now I'm going to miss three of my best players for a national team camp that is in a tournament that is our only opportunity now before the World Cup to play meaningful games.
The fans suffer. How are they going to pick where to go, which games to watch? They can't follow their best players necessarily.
It just feels like it's just too much, man. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot.
We know that the fixture buildup, and we can go back to the Rodri injury and quotes and all that. We know the fixture buildup is ridiculous.
Look, money makes the world go round. I know nobody wants to hear that, but it's more money.
It's more games. It's more eyes.
TV rights are going up. There's an issue here.
There's a log jam at the top and uh there's more games being added because there's more money involved now what I would say is you touched on it the biggest issue for me because look I think if my team's if my team's in the club world cup and I'm playing on one of the biggest teams in the world I mean I'm probably in the moment I'm probably excited to compete at that level trophies on the line so you know I can get myself excited for that. I think the difficult part, LD, is at the end of every season, right? In England, it was the Premier League being finished, no matter where you placed European places or winning the title or staving off relegation.
Maybe you're in a cup final in the FA Cup. Maybe there's a Champions League final.
But then you're done. And you're like, I'm going to go with a different group of guys.
I'm going back with my national team. I'm going to refocus.
It's hard to continue on that road even further with your club team because you need that break. But more importantly for the US, right? Because this is USLNT.
There is no World Cup qualifying. There is very limited availability to get your best players in the trenches together when it matters.
Being on the road, playing back-to-back games, three games in the course of 10 days, getting into the next round, regrouping, trying to get advanced, get to a final. There's no opportunity for that.
This is the opportunity. This is it.
The Gold Cup is the opportunity. When this opportunity goes, and if potentially three of our best six players Weston Tim Weah and Gio Reyna are missing from that that for me is a problem and forget me I got a nice amazing studio in New York that's a problem for Mr.
Pochettino huge problem so I wonder if there's going to be any wiggle room I wonder how much power and influence U.S. soccer can have.
I hope U.S. soccer can have the influence and just say, look, we're going to flex our muscles here and if we need to create some sort of dust up with the clubs, so be it because I think in this matter it's important that U.S.
soccer and Mauricio Pochettino say absolutely zero chance I'm playing without those three. Absolutely zero chance.
Tim, guess what? FIFA just sold the rights to the Club World Cup for a billion, yes, I said a billion, a billion dollars, right? That's what I started with. So guess what FIFA's doing? They're calling all the clubs and they're saying, hey, Gio Reyna and Weston McKinney and Lionel Messi, and they better be in the tournament the tournament.
They better be playing because we just got a billion dollars and everybody's going to be telling us, hey, those guys better play. So there's going to become a war and it's not going to be pretty, man.
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out with national teams versus club teams over the next few months. My argument would be, we agree on what the rights fee was

for the Club World Cup.

What I would say is,

I'm U.S. soccer,

and I got just as much money involved

in the 2026 World Cup as they do,

and it matters more to me.

And so U.S. soccer and Pochettino

have to fight their corner

as strongly as FIFA is going to fight their corner. No, they will.
But guess what? It's the FIFA World Cup too. So FIFA is invested in the US having a good World Cup.
Yeah, of course. So it's like they're all just in it together and it's kind of a mess.
Curious what you guys think. We've been doing poll questions now.
It's actually a fun way for us to engage with you guys so which is more important to you the fan

club world cup if you're a national team fan or the gold cup so would you rather see wes and tim waya playing for juve against you know whoever or you want to see them in the gold cup be really curious to hear everyone's thoughts um can we touch real quick just he's starting to get some publicity now um but anthony robinson yeah um his star is shining as bright as ever my opinion is after christian and you know christian's injured now i don't think there's a better player on the planet that's american than anton right he's doing every week tim up and down up and down forget about like the providing assist he's just defends well. He's got to be close to the first name on the team sheet at Fulham every week.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I mean, shout out to Anthony Robinson, former teammate of mine at Everton. Many people probably don't know that.
Did you? Was he there when you? Oh, I forgot that. No.
Yeah. He was on the fringes of the first team when we were there.
Good kid, man. Really, really good

kid. Someone who's easy to root for, but playing well.
Yeah, as you said, just his ability to get up and down the flanks and continuously put in dangerous crosses. Again, two assists this weekend.
It was, yeah, you talk about oftentimes the special players coming from the spine of the team, right? Like in the heart of the midfield or goal scorers. But his ability to contribute on both ends for Fulham in the Premier League and for the U.S.
Men's National Team. I mean, can't say enough good things about Anthony Robinson and another player.
Touch wood, but he seems to be not only consistent, but constantly available, constantly playing big, big minutes and big moments. So that's a, that's a big one for us.
He's also, Tim, he's worn the armband now. And you know, Stu said last week, yeah, Stu said last week, something really interesting, national teams and our national teams in the past were best when we had a lot of guys wearing armbands and being leaders on their team.
this is another point where it's great to be at a big club but if you're a fringe player you don't understand how leadership works at that level and so even if you're on a quote smaller club if you're a leader or a captain and you can bring that into a national team it's a whole different level if you have seven or eight of those guys starting on the field your national team looks a whole lot different so he's it's an interesting and it's a really interesting point you make let me let me let me dive into that a little bit so when you're when you're playing a little bit and i can i can attest to this when i was playing at manchester united i was a fringe player right so my only thought was like how do i not screw up you so So that I can me yeah that i can play next week that's right when i got to everton and i was like i'm putting in performances every week i'm gonna play every week because i'm consistent my my thought became less about me and it became more about the fans and the performance and the internal struggles of a team and how how do i be part of the solution instead of the problem And that only came through consistency of playing ownership of the team, responsibility. When you play a lot, other players look around at you and you're like, all right, well, he's got to have the answers.
What are the answers, Tim? What are the answers, Landon? And so when you start to play those big minutes and it starts to become less about you because you're like, I've already figured me out. I know I'm going to be on the team sheet.
It then becomes about problem solving and leadership. Right.
And then you, and then you crave that most, most athletes crave that and then you want more. So then you go into your national team and you're like, no, no, hang on.
I got a voice. I know how to fix this problem.
And you step up and you stand out. So I think the leadership aspect is a really good one.
Yeah. It's great for him.
Yeah. Another news that was not swept under the rug, but I think all predictable.
FIFA announced the next two world cups after 26. Yeah.
As anticipated. Hold on.
This is going to take me a minute. 2030 is in Spain, Portugal, Morocco, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay.
For people who don't know yet, the reason is I think it's the 100th year of the World Cup and it's originated in Uruguay. So they want to have the opening game in Uruguay.
I'm sure Argentina and Paraguay will play also in home games there. And then the entire tournament will shift to Europe.
I personally love this. You love it.
Well, I just think having multiple games on multiple continents, forget about the logistics because whoever has to deal with that, I pray for you. But I love it.
It gives the opportunity for the game to be seen literally all over the world in different time zones, different times. I know there's a bit of a challenge for the players and I know you feel passionately about this, but I think it's going to be great.
Go ahead. I hate it.
I hate it. You and I talked about this.
Why? Well, yeah. So I hate it because ultimately, and this is not us talking here in 2024, this is going to be the same conversation on everybody's lips in 2030.
The travel, that distance of travel is going to wear on teams. Now, I know, I know the teams that have to come from South America in those opening games will have, quote unquote, ample rest.
But the fact of the matter is when you get to the later stages, and I'm talking last four or get to a final, I think there'll be a team, if there's a team, from that start of the tournament in South America, who I think is going to have a disadvantage because of that travel for teams who don't. You mean like cumulative? Accumulative, yes.
Because these guys do this all the time. They go from Europe and back.
Totally, totally. But in the midst of a tournament where these games, look, when you travel back to, if you're a Brazilian and you travel back to somewhere in the Premier League in London, you've traveled back to Paris and played for Paris Saint-Germain, whatever that case is, the fact of the matter is you don't actually have to perform on the one-off.
You can. Maybe you take the weekend off.
It's not going to be the case with these teams. And so I just, yes, I know they know how to travel on first-class planes and charter planes and get their sleep right.
I just, I ultimately think travel is disadvantaged. In 2014, we had, we had, we traveled more than any team in Brazil as the US team with the most miles logged and it was hard.
It was, it's not the reason we lost in that particular case, but it could be, and I don't love it. Well, thanks for the reminder about 2014.
I was watching it. I appreciate that.
The other World Cup that was announced was 2034 in Saudi Arabia. And it's an interesting one because Qatar was not that long ago.
From today, it wasn't that long ago. By 2034, it will be.
But playing a World Cup in the winter has its drawbacks. But then there's also a benefit for the European players.
In the middle of their season, it's not at the end. It throws scheduling into a little bit of a for a loop in terms of league schedule.
But what's your thoughts on the winter World Cup in Saudi Arabia? So I was there in Qatar. Weather was perfect in the winter.
So that was a big plus. Qatar was amazing because you could literally drive everywhere.
So we were doing game a day on Fox. And you could just drive, drive back to hotel.
Drive to the game, back to it. And that's not going to be the case, certainly, in Saudi Arabia, nor is it in any World Cup usually.
What I used to find interesting, and I was playing in MLS during the time, when the World Cup came around in June, I always remember you guys would finish in May, and maybe you a little longer if you had a cup final or something like that there was so such a challenge from when bruce was there and bob how do they how do the coaches manage you guys from europe when you get in so you might have played 48 games that year and now it's the end of the season and you have to be tired i mean it's your body gets used to playing a certain number of games and then shutting down for a month or two. But in World Cup years, it's like, guess what? You're going straight into a tournament.
So I remember with Claudio Reyna in the early days, I think maybe in 02 and Bruce, I think he just shut him down for like seven or 10 days, but then there's a risk of, okay, do you lose rhythm? Do you lose some fitness and how do you get it back? And it's this huge challenge. So what I saw in 2022 was the inverse, the total opposite.
And me as an MLS player, we would start our season in March. So by the time June came around, I was flying.
I was fit. I was hitting my stride.
But now it was the opposite. So MLS guys in Qatar were like, they were tired.
Like you can see, they'd been through a long season. Now they're at the end of the season.
And the European players, conversely, were great. And I actually think it made the World Cup better.
I think just the energy of the players was better because it was not at the end of their season. So I expect the same from Saudi Arabia.
It's going to be interesting if you watch the event. And I've been in one of those rooms in, I don't know what year it was, but we were bidding on the 2018 World Cup?

18, I think, yeah.

I was in the room in 2010 when Sepp Blatter opened the envelope.

And of course, it was all-

Where was this?

What room?

It was in Switzerland.

Oh, you were in Switzerland.

Switzerland.

So we were in the room and us stupid, naive Americans, we actually thought we had a chance and this thing had probably been baked in years ago with Qatar or Russia and Qatar. And so, oh, it was the 2022 World Cup we were bidding on.
But being in that room and they opened the envelope, at least there was some anticipation, like what is going to happen? What's the envelope? So Gianni Infantino was there announced spain portugal morocco argentina uruguay paraguay everybody knew that then it was going to saudi arabia because saudi arabia in 30 in 2034 nobody else bid on it because they're going to lose australia pulled out a long time ago so he had to like uncomfortably open the envelope and go oh Saudi Arabia! Some surprise to

everybody.

It was a little awkward, but

I think it's going to be fine. I know people have a lot of

issues around Saudi Arabia for a lot of different

reasons, but

I think it's still good

to grow the sport wherever you can.

I think that's right. So I'm fine with it.

Yeah. All right.

Let's take a break. When we get back, we will talk about the Premier League.

A lot of stuff going on this weekend in the Premier League.

I'm excited to pick your brain on it. You didn't work this weekend.
No. But we all watched and it'll be fun to dive into.
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Yeah, it was Derby weekend in Manchester, my former home, good old city of Manchester. It was a big one.
It was a big one for so many reasons because city had to win right like they had to get back on track and man united under under new manager ruben amarin they need something right they need a marker as you start to build your team you have to put a marker down and feel like you're building towards the right things um you know for all of you didn see the game, and I'm guessing most of our listeners saw the game,

it was fairly dull.

You know, it was kind of a little bit of a shadow boxing match,

but then it exploded into life, as you saw.

Ahmad with the winning penalty, awful giveaway from Mateus Nunez, Bruno Fernandes, obviously, equalized.

And then, you know, City, of course, trying to push for the winner.

But in the end

it was a red weekend.

Manchester's red my friend.

The game I was watching

in New York

it was boring.

It was boring for a long time.

I just kept thinking to myself

this is sad that these two clubs have come

to this like where they're both

fearful like not

to lose the game.

But out of nowhere you have to give

Thank you. This is sad that these two clubs have come to this, where they're both fearful not to lose the game.
But out of nowhere, you have to give Ahmad so much credit. He's kind of been thrown in under Amarin, and Amarin clearly trusts him, and he keeps performing.
And it was impressive to watch. Twice now, Amarin has beaten Pep in the the last whatever month and a half one in when he was back in portugal and now with united so i i don't i'm kind of running out of things to say for city tim sure like yeah i don't i don't know where they go and pep looks the same he's like he just doesn't know what to do mateus nunez has an absolute shocker the last five minutes and he just doesn't know what to do.
Yeah. I mean, Nunez gives a pass away and then he, and then of course you try with all your might to make up for it and then give away the penalty compound mistakes lead to goals in soccer.
So, you know, that's not something that, you know, Pep Guardiola can legislate for, right? Ahmad Diallo, I think the great thing, and you you know this is when a new manager comes in it gives everybody everybody a new opportunity and oftentimes flowers bud from that we didn't even expect and Diallo because of the way the system works um there are there are crucial pieces in Amram's system and one of those is the the wide areas in particular you know the wing back the winger depending on on what he plays but amada seemed to pick the system up really quickly right and so he's had a ton of good performances um to the extent where you're looking at and i would argue that since amram's come in he's been um the best performer of anybody. Obviously, there's been some good performances through Bruno Fernandes, who we expect, and Hoyland has kind of come to life.
But Ahmad, for sure, has been one of the big, bright spots for me. My old assistant coach at Loyal, Nate Miller, used to say, the right player in the right place, the right time with the right coach.
Yeah. And that's what Amram, he's now in the right place.
he probably thought for a while there, is this the right player in the right place the right time with the right coach yeah and like that's what he's he's now in the right place he probably thought for a while there is this the right place for me is this the right time for me is this the right coach but it all came together perfectly and that you see that all the time a player you did not expect all of a sudden playing all the time because he fits what they do remember these are all world-class players right yeah even if if you don't agree with some of the signings that your top clubs have, they're still very good players. And there's a reason you're going after them.
So congrats to him. That's why you need a manager who can pull that out of particularly a lot of these young players.
Look, so much to unpack here topic by topic when it comes to the Derby. First one for me, Kyle Walker, and most of us saw this, Walker and and Hoyland there's a coming together um where you see this a lot in in in soccer right there's there's you get angry and you're not supposed to you're not supposed to fight because there's violent conduct right so if you raise your hands on someone you're going to get red cards so oftentimes players in their anger they come together and they're like put each other's head on so macho i'm gonna headbutt you right and and so hoyland initiates the the movement but it's not a head but it's a it's a coming together and kyle walker leans in and as they're touching foreheads kyle walker then goes down like a sack of potatoes and which is you know it's it's shithousery which is one of my favorite words and actions and so um you know i think they both got booked if if i'm not mistaken but yeah i mean kyle water i was like bro come on i actually don't i don't mind it i think sometimes when um you know i think the referee in those moments i like when the referee is like strong and basically looks at him just like, get up, like, stop this nonsense.
Everybody get up. There was nothing in it.
You're getting a booking. You're getting a booking.
Let's go. So, you know, it's always funny for me, Tim and those, and I know it cause I did it, you know, like if you really got hit or you didn't, of course, like, you know, of course.
And so he goes down, but then quickly he's like, Oh God, I'm going going to look at him. And like with social media and everything now, everyone's going to kill him.
And you could see in his brain, like he just knew in that moment, I got to get up. And it's like when a guy like thinks he gets fouled for a pen, but it's not a penalty.
And then they quickly go, okay, I better get up because I'm going to look like an absolute idiot. Yeah.
Anyway. There's a follow on from that after the match because Hoyland wasn't ready to let it go.
I'll let you read the quote. Oh, this is so good.
Okay. So Hoyland goes on social media, on Instagram, I think.
And he's got a picture of him and Kyle. He and Kyle Walker coming together.
And he says, Manchester is red. Violets are blue.
What a brilliant performance. But the Oscar goes to very good.
I love it. Whoever his PR team is, congratulations to that.
Why do you hate it? What's wrong with that? Here's why. Because Hoyland, his price tag's too big for him and he's a young player.
Right. Price tag's too big.
It's not his fault.

Maybe.

He,

I would say What do you mean maybe?

It's not his fault

someone paid that much for him.

He's underperformed.

He's underperformed.

Okay, go ahead.

Well, it's his fault

he's underperformed.

100%.

Yes, that.

But not that someone paid.

I like him as a young striker.

What I would say is

since you've gotten to United, your team has stunk. You've underperformed.
And by the way, if they had won this Derby last season, he wouldn't have said that. It's really easy to kick City when they're down.
So this social media, I think it was on Instagram, wherever it lives, it's very convenient to me. What I'd prefer is that he just keeps doing the business.
Look, you can say whatever you want on your own social media. Again, it's for me to judge at this point, but it's not for me to do.
If you want to do it, that's fine. It's just a very convenient manner.
I think he got caught up in the emotion of it because, as I said, had they beat a title-winning city last season in that season and they won the Derby, he wouldn't have said those things. No, there's no chance.
Okay. That's my point.
I agree. Just perform.
That's fine. Interestingly, before the game, the news was, so watching the NBC broadcast, everyone was surprised to Robbie's and Rebecca, that two players were left out of the squad altogether and not due to injury.
That was Garnacho and Marcus Rashford. And I was thinking to myself, Tim, during the game, okay, this is one of those moments as a coach where, and I give Emram a lot of credit for this because this is a hard thing to do.
It's almost a make or break moment because you go into the game, they're losing for majority of the game. I can promise you at some point, even if he goes and looks in the mirror, Amirim at night and said, if they had lost that game one zero, I'm sure at some point on the bench, he would have said, maybe use Garnaccio right now.
Even if whatever's going on off the field, and it's clear there's things going on off the field,

how they treat each other, their teammates,

there's something going on there between Rashford, Garnaccio,

and the rest of their teammates.

I'm sure at some point he said,

maybe Marcus Rashford can pull a goal out.

Because guess what?

Players in the end, Tim, care about winning.

Now, they want their teammates to be good teammates.

They want them to be fun to be around, nice to be around. But at the end, you'll put up with a lot of crap if the guy performs.
Now, those two haven't been performing over the last few years at the level that everyone expects. But I'm sure at some point he was going, did I get this one right? Then all of a sudden they win the game.
And now I can promise you today when they're walking back in the locker room after a day off, he's gone. See guys, told you, see, we don't need them.
And if you don't do things the way I want, you're not playing. And so now Rashford and Garnaccio have a decision to make.
Do they just say, I'm done? I'm done. I'm over it.
Fine. Move me out.
Or, or they get on, they get on the bus and if they don't get on the bus, I promise you they're going to be gone. Yeah, it's an interesting one for me, LD, because the same decision was taken, but they're not the same for me.
What do you mean? Well, I think going forward, it's not going to be the same, right? I think there's two players at different points of their United career. So, yeah, I mean, to your point point there's going to be a time in that game where amarin's saying i wish i wish i could have them but i think when you're managing you take such a strong stance about player selection you got you know that going into it you you basically are telling yourself this is a big decision and there's going to be some fallout from this but i have to for the greater good of the team and i his quotes in one of our amazing producers, um, we'll probably put this up on our screen at some point.
There was a quote from Amron. He named a number of things that you have to do to get in his team.
Right. And any number of those things, um, is what Garnacho and Rashford weren't doing.
Um, and so there's probably other things that he doesn't want to say publicly, but what he's doing to him is he's sending a message to the whole team by what he did with them. And so when you send that message to everyone, it's powerful and it carries a lot of weight.
Yeah, and look, here's the quote. He said, for me, it's important, the performance in training, the performance in games, the way you dress, the way you eat, the way you engage with your teammates, the way you push your teammates, all of that's important, right? So what he's basically saying there is either one or all of those things, probably most of those things are something he doesn't like and he's not seeing.
The issue, what I would say, and this speaks to the enormity of the job and the task that Ruben Alvarez has is this club has been littered with mediocrity for so long. The standards have dropped.
There's not a lot of leaders. Like, by the way, for the record, I was at United three years.
You can say I was amazing or I sucked. It doesn't matter.
What I do know is I was inside those walls for four years. And I can you Sir Alex Ferguson let me scroll would never have had to say the performance in training isn't good in games the way you dress the way you know why because Gary Neville and Roy Keane would have been like what are you wearing that ain't correct you eat like crap sort yourself out right because the leadership structure at Manchester United was so strong within the dressing room.
So that would have never had to, that would have never had to been said on the outside. And so look, I think, I think when I look at Marcus Rashford, he's a player I really like.
I think he's a player who at one point in time, a couple of years ago, did some things on the pitch that we thought this kid is world-class. He's playing for England.
He's going to continue to be world-class. I think what we've seen is maybe he's not the guy who just always wants the ball.
Maybe he's a squad player who wants to kind of fit in, get in the slipstream, and be a really, really good Premier League player. And by the way, that's actually okay because I think some of the things he does off the field are brilliant.
I think he's a top talent, whether that's at Manchester United or not. His time at Manchester United feels like it could be coming to an end.
That's my personal opinion. Now, Garnacho, supremely talented.
Young player. He's got magic in his boots.
Can play on the left side. Can play on the right side.
This is a matter of he's not been schooled. Since he's gotten to the club, there's been zero leadership internally in the dressing room.
He's somebody who needs direction and boundaries. And I think Amarim could be the guy who gives it to him.

Well said.

Let's move on quick.

The team that nobody still wants to talk about,

and they just keep flying under the radar, Chelsea.

And by the way, if you haven't looked,

they are two points back now of Liverpool.

Liverpool have the game in hand, the Merseyside Derby.

But they won again, 2-1 on the weekend.

And they just keep going.

And just talk to me, Tim, about the Todd Boley approach. When he first came in, everyone was kind of befuddled by it, but...
All of us. I think why I give Todd Boley so much credit is because I was one of those people.
Confused, right? We're all confused by, you know, he comes from a baseball background, right?

And so we understand when you look at City currently,

when you look at Everton and Nottingham Forest, right?

These were teams that were knocked back by profit and sustainability rules, right?

It was a mess for some of these clubs.

They're getting fined and docked points and all that.

And Todd Bowley's come in and he's basically said, we're going to only sign young players under a certain age. We're going to extend these contracts.
Instead of giving them two, you know, three-year contracts with an option, these are like seven, eight, nine-year contracts. We've never seen that, right? And to add to the confusion, right, with Todd Bowley, it was, he had Graham Potter as a manager.
Lampard was in there. Tuchel, Pochettino, right?

So it was chaotic and maybe by design. But the thing about Todd Bowley that I found interesting was when you're in the position like he is and things aren't going right, you automatically come out and defend yourself.
Right? He didn't do that. No, he was quiet.
Which added to the mystery, right? When you get, when your team stinks and what you're trying to put in place isn't working, these young players weren't working

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this

this that no he was quiet which added to the mystery right when you get when when your team stinks and and and what you're trying to put in place isn't working these young players weren't working this this bloated squad of 30 plus players wasn't working you continually bring in managers who have to deal with this bloated squad and then you sack them very quickly this sounds and feels like chaos now that the dust is settling and mareska by the way enzoca hats off to you. I mean, you can already probably have manager of the season.

I mean, he's doing that good of a job is he, he trimmed the squad.

He basically said, you're Raheem Sterling's and you're people who I don't have any use

for, which is find your surplus requirements.

Feel free to move on.

Right.

He did at the beginning of the season.

Then he basically said, look, we are, we're in a European competition, a Premier League

competition.

I'm going to have a Premier League 11 more than most likely. and then I'm going to have a midweek 11, right? And the two aren't really going to blend.
I'm not going to chop and change too much. And that's what those young players needed.
They needed a belief in, because what was happening before was the squad was so big with these talented young players, it was always, okay, well, this will be my center back pairing today. And then next week, I'll do another center back pairing.
And then you'll play on the wing one week. It didn't work, right? And Enzo Moreska has come in and has been so incredibly strong and said, if I'm the manager, this is how we're going to do it.
And we're starting to see the success of the youngest team in the Premier League. I mean, absolutely flying high.
And look, the talent is there. Clearly, Todd Bowley wasn't signing bad players.
He was signing really talented young players. But with that comes some worry.
And right now, they're getting it right. And I mean, there's a lot of surprise in the season.
City's downfall being one of them. Where Nottingham Forest is, and we'll talk about that in a second.
That's a surprise. But I mean, Jesus.
and liverpool at the top of the table battling it out

that for me is just like you would have never thought it but it's happening and it's real and uh chelsea team to keep an eye on real quick before break so forrest come from behind and beat villa 2-1 i just the only thing that like forrest congrats you great season the emmy martinez save if you have not seen it, Tim, just real quick, for me, I can't remember seeing a better save because the ball's behind him. I'm not even sure he knows it's there.
He reaches back and pulls it off the goal line. And just as a goalkeeper, just how difficult is that? Well, by so many accounts, he's certainly the top goalkeeper on the planet for a lot of reasons, club and country.

But in the top three, of course, I jumped out of my seat when I saw it. I just think when there's a reaction save and that save is basically behind the goalkeeper, so a goalkeeper has to, in a last ditch effort, reach behind themselves to claw a ball out.
that's when the save starts to gain momentum and kind of become otherworldly. And for me, that was that.
It was a reaction. We know his reactions are really good.
And for him to be able to claw it out when it was clearly behind his body, nearly behind the line, those are the most impressive. So I thought my hat's off to him again.
But he makes so many of those that you're almost like this somewhat becomes routine.

But yeah, look, Nottingham Forest, fourth place in the Premier League.

I could have never imagined that.

When I think about before the season, what you'd have got better odds on or what would

have surprised you more, would it be Nottingham Forest in fourth place?

Or would it be Manchester City's downfall?

I'm not sure you get odds on either of them.

There's very few times in my life where I'm watching a game and I say,

wow, what a save.

Or what a goal.

And I was like, my son was with me and I was like, what a save.

And he's like, what, what, what, what?

I'm like, just watch this.

This was phenomenal.

That save was certainly surprising. I think what was not surprising, two sackings on the weekend, Gary O'Neal and Russell Martin for Wolves in Southampton, respectively, kind of saw it both coming.
Russell Martin actually left the field for the whistle blew at halftime, and I think he knew it was over.

Yeah.

They knew it was over.

It's always tough to see that,

but now there's opportunity.

So every manager now is contacting those clubs

and saying all their agents are contacting

and saying how great of a manager they would be there

and be interesting to see what happens there.

Yeah, it's interesting because you never want to see

managers get sacked or lose their job. The fact of the matter is in the Premier League with the business being so high and the financial structure that is global football managers will get sacked in the Premier League and the fact of the matter is Wolves and Southampton are firmly rooted in the bottom three and they're just not playing well and I and you know I think it's a cautionary tale and this is a this a big debate, is do you go and play expansive football or do you just try and stay in the Premier League by hook or by crook? And I think you have to have a plan A, B, and possibly C going into the season so that it doesn't feel like a radical change when you do it.
Look, what I would say is I'm very interested to see what names pop up for these jobs because both of these teams, although there's still time

because of when the sackings happened,

both of these teams are going to struggle to stay up.

And so you now have to find a really good manager

who's willing to take that challenge on.

Not easy.

And maybe willing to go down with them,

stay down with them and come back up, right?

All right, let's take a break.

When we come back, we will get into mailbag questions

and anything but soccer right here on Unfiltered Soccer with Landon and Tim presented by Volkswagen. I think you're on mute.
Workday's starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute.
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It's a great day for a new Hyundai okay time for

everybody's

favorite

segment of the week

well if it's not

everyone's favorite

it's certainly Jordan's

favorite because she

gets to have air time

mailbag questions

Jordan get on in here

Jordan by the way

you were so cold too

at the Times Square

oh you poor thing

I was so bundled

with my hat

and my scarf

oh you poor thing

like I was cold

but I was like

oh that poor

I'm a big fan. Everything's about you.
This segment's about you. Rolling.
All right, what do you got? Okay, so my first question comes from Tyler via email. He says, in David Beckham's Netflix documentary, he shared a story about the conflict with Diego Simeone, but ended up swapping jerseys with one another, which showed great sportsmanship given the history between the two.
Do Tim or Landon have a similar story with an opposing player? Wow. Yeah.
Yeah, there are lots of guys on the field I absolutely hated. I mean, there were guys, Kyle Beckerman, I played with when I was 16 on the U-17 national team.
And every time we played Salt Lake, every time, for 90 minutes, he would just bitch and moan at the referee. I mean, every call, he was like, what are you talking about? It wasn't.
And I'd say, Kyle, dude, you can't complain about every foul. Kyle can.
Okay, just okay you can i absolutely couldn't stand him but that's why he was a winner like he just cared so much and of course we would trade jerseys now we were good friends so it's a little different um but yeah i mean the beauty of sports for me tim and jr is like you can go through that and all those battles and then you leave it right there like i love hockey after every hockey playoff series after all the things they do and they're fighting and literally fighting all that they take the gloves off and they shake hands and i love that about sports yeah i mean the one the one that stands out is i don't remember if and i have traded jerseys with guys who i didn't like or didn't like me and because again it is it is, as we're saying, it's the ultimate sign of respect. Like it's literally forget anything else.
That's like, okay, this person and I understand each other. And I remember 2015 Diego Costa and I at Goodison Park, Diego Costa was, was a brilliant striker for Chelsea at the time.
And he was always mixing it up and we were getting pasted. And so I just thought, here, this was a perfect day.
This was one of those stories where it was like the perfect day where I'm like, I suck so bad today that I really want to get sent off because I am so tired of being out here sucking. And I think we lost 5-1 or something like that at home.
Might have been opening weekend. And he had said something to Seamus Coleman, who was my right back friend so I got to grips with him and I I gripped him up and I was begging for a fight begging for it and like I couldn't be separated and uh after the game they like I said whooped up on us and we hugged it out and hugged and kissed and walked off the field arm and arm and it was like this you just kind of understand that there's just part of the show yeah it's part of it right and and you you appreciate the the competitiveness we could do a whole episode on jerseys and stuff but like the best thing was back with the galaxy anytime we played like real madrid or barcelona in a friendly guys who were like the 28th guy on the roster the minute the whistle blew we're sprinting to cristiano and messi and be like can we trade jersey and they look at him like it's amazing nah bro absolutely stop i don't mind the effort blew.
We're sprinting to Cristiano and Messi and be like, can we trade jersey? And they look at him like, nah bro, I'm giving you my jersey. I don't mind the effort though.
I love the effort, but go on. Alright, J.R.
Here's a question from James via email. Do you see the relegation system implemented in soccer in the U.S.? James, you want to open a can of worms, huh, bud? The question is, do we see it happening? My gut is that it will happen in some form eventually.
Now, I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm not trying to be vague.
Right now, if you are, the Vancouver Whitecaps, for example, James are up for sale. And I think the price I saw was 475 let's call 500 million dollars if I'm a multi-billionaire and I pay 500 million dollars for a franchise and the next season I could get relegated and lose all my revenue and my valuation gets cut by whatever 50 percent 70 percent 80 percent Why would I ever sign up for that? I mean, it's just like, that's just an easy business decision.
So they would have to find some creativity, Tim, but I think eventually that system is really enticing and exciting to sports fans once they understand it. Yeah.
So, so James, great question.

We at Unfiltered Soccer promise,

because we've already talked about it internally, to have a much larger discussion on promotion and relegation

at a much higher level than just a short blur

because it's an awesome conversation.

It's one that I can tell you for,

so I don't, I don't think, I don don't think promotion relegation can work in America. And I'll give you loads of reasons why I think that as we go forward in these podcasts.
A lot of it starts with the conversation about what Landon just spoke about in terms of valuation and losses and profits. What I would say, and this is the fun part about it,

I have had multiple conversations.

I'm still on the side of no.

I've had multiple promotion relegation conversations

with people who I trust and who I respect and who I love.

These are agents.

These are head of leagues.

These are owners.

And I've staunchly argued my point against,

and I've walked away from that conversation

and thought, I can see it happening.

Mm-hmm. owners.
And I've staunchly argued my point against, and I've walked away from that conversation and thought, I can see it happening. I can see it happening for the reasons I've been told.
So it's a debate that, look, I would happily jump on board with anything that continues to grow the game of soccer in this country. So that's hands down.
If that means yes or no, I'm on board. I just currently, for my own feelings, think that it won't work.
And there's some valuable conversations around that that we'll have. Okay.
Before I read the last question, I just would like to mention to people that we don't have an episode next week. We're taking a week off for the holiday, but we will be back with a special episode on New Year's Eve.
And we would love to get lots of interesting questions from people. So don't forget to send them to us on social media, or you can email me if you want to.
Feedback at Unfiltered Soccer. I do read all the emails.
Just so people know, Jordan, it's in Tim's contract that he can't work more than four weeks in a row. None of my guys.
That's all I do is work. Same with NBC.
That's why we're taking a week off. Okay.
So last email is from Parker, and he wants to know, what can I do? I also want to know this question, Parker. What can I do as a U.S.
men's national team fan and a fan of soccer in general to help grow the game in the usa great question um if you love the game parker the easiest way is to talk to people about it and try to get them what i always say try to get them to go to a game um the game on tv for people who don't appreciate all the nuance and what the game is about can be boring it can't And there's a lot of sports I feel like if I watch cricket on TV, I'm like, this is so boring. If I go to a cricket match, which I haven't, or if I talk to people who know about it, it becomes much more interesting.
I might not go and I might not love it, but give them an opportunity to go with you to a game. I've never once had someone go to a game and not say, wow, I loved it.

What an experience.

So get them to go with you to a game.

Teach them about the game, all the nuances, and you've got a good chance of getting them involved.

Great question.

Yeah, great question.

Great answer, LDI.

Look, for me, it's about individuals creating community around the game.

And what is creating community around the game? Landon said go go to a game absolutely um there's so many levels of the game that you can support whether that be the highest level or everywhere in between um go to bars restaurants watch games with with friends um support i mean local soccer teams community, play, sign up for leagues, anything that surrounds the game. It's interesting.
Now that I don't kick a ball and I can no longer play or don't want to play, if I'm brutally honest, I have so many opportunities in my everyday life to just create community around a game. Yes, some of my jobs mean that, but watch games, talk to coaches, just offline, not official capacities, just connect people within the game.
And I obviously have a platform to do that. But in general, in your local communities, I just think you just have to continue to create the community around soccer and people will get excited.
And the great thing is you could be the steward for that cause, right? And so you could get people in your office and say, let's go grab a beer. Everybody wants to go hang out and be around people they like and then introduce them to soccer, you know? And I think that's important.
Just watch it on TV. Love that.
Awesome. Thanks guys.
Jordan, thank you. Thanks Jordan.
All right, Timmy Last, but certainly not least, anything but soccer.

All right, so I like to tie a lot into the NFL, as you do.

So I was watching the Eagles-Steelers game yesterday.

Yeah. Okay, and the Eagles coach, Sirianni, Nick Sirianni,

there was a play in the game. Jalen Carter, defensive tackle,

gets an unnecessary roughness,

like a, whatever, stupid 15-yard penalty

called against him, right?

The Eagles defensive lineman.

So he comes off the field,

and when he gets off the field,

Sirianni, who was the head coach,

walks over to talk to him about it,

and I'm guessing he wasn't going to say nice things about it,

how it was unacceptable, et cetera.

Before he can get there,

the defensive line coach for the Eagles stepped in

and who knows what was said.

Hopefully they have audio on the sidelines,

which I know they do

because I see a lot of clips with NFL audio.

So they better release that.

And in no uncertain terms, told the head coach,

like, leave him alone, basically.

And I'm watching this and I've been a head coach, right?

And I'm thinking to myself,

the message that sends to your staff,

that you're allowing a staff member to come in

and cut in front of what you want to say to one of your players

and to the rest of the team

is crazy, right?

You have to have,

in organizations like this

and with macho, egotistical men,

you have to have hierarchy

and you have to know who the boss is.

You have to.

And if you don't,

there are big problems. The crazy thing, the Eagles are 12-2.
They won the game. But I can tell, and it's not a secret, like people who follow the team or whatever, it's a bit of a house of cards that's ready to crumble.
And I could not believe, Tim. Can you imagine one of the assistant coaches or Chris Woods, a goalkeeper coach, getting in front of Sir Alex Ferguson when he's trying to talk to you and say, hey, hey, hey, I got it, pal.
Leave him alone. I mean, he would have lost his mind.
So I could not believe it watching it. And it just makes me wonder, like, how long is that sustainable? Well, I think the house of cards part of it is when you look at the Philadelphia Eagles last year, that was a bit of the knock on them of why things imploded, right? And so maybe there's a carry-on effect to what you're saying.
There's some truth in that. A couple things.
I know people are going to say, and of course, it's not politically correct, nor should you say it, that I'm a soft soccer player and all we do is get fouled and roll around that's fine the fact of the matter is football is so over aggressive i'm not talking about the tackling and the hitting that's brilliant i i feel like i never see a conversation on the sideline that's anything other than some guy like being beat red in the face shouting it's just such an over aggressive thing by the way, if you ever watch me play, I like to shout. That's not my point.
But it always surprises me. Like in football, there's so much energy and emotion and adrenaline that all they do is just yell and scream for no apparent reason.
It's just testosterone, dude. It is.
And so, you know, when I think about, but the funny part of that is like, I always, I always think it's interesting, like on the, on the outside, we only see, we only see it from one point of view. Right.
And, um, either maybe we're at the game, but most of the time we see it on television from an angle and it's a replay of the same angle of people arguing, but I've been in these, you know, you and I have been in these dress rooms together.

I've been in dress rooms where it's all kicked off and things have been said to the head

coach.

And, you know, I always think the head coach is that like, that's the top of the pyramid,

right?

Like that, that sanctity can never be, be broken.

And I remember being in a dressing room where my, literally my best friend on the team who,

if I stood up to him would literally just go boom and pummel me into the ground.

Thank you. And I remember being in a dressing room where literally my best friend on the team who, if I stood up to him, would literally just go boom and pummel me into the ground.
That's how strong he was. And I remember there being an argument with, to your point, with him who was very much an alpha male for whatever that means in today's society.
He was like, it was his way or the highway. This is my best friend.
And there was a said something to him like did something they didn't like so my friend stands up and i think oh god and everyone thought oh god this is after a loss he was literally going to hit our head coach and i remember taking a getting up from my stool and beelining it for my best friend and thinking he's gonna have to smash me first which he would he would have, but I'm not going to let him hit. Even if I agree with my best friend, he cannot do anything to my head coach.
He cannot hit him. He cannot do it because once that happens, everything's lost.
Thankfully, I did not get beat up that day, nor did our head coach. At some point, hours later, cooler heads prevail i i agree if you're the head coach ultimately you have carte blanche to say and do whatever you want whether people like it or not so um we just have to be respected right like that that was so disrespectful that whole interaction i was thinking how do you come back from that as a coach yeah it's hard What I would say is being a giants fan any dysfunction in dallas or in philadelphia i i appreciate it makes me happy um so long may it continue sorry eagles fans probably won't be at an eagles well i will say tim and you know we can end on this we've been in the game a long time we've been you know we're in touch with people all involved in the game on different levels.
On many different occasions, I have seen teams succeed where stuff like that is going on behind the scenes. Win championships, et cetera, where it's a disaster, but they're just so much better or so much more talented that they can still win.
Now, it's not ideal, but it happens, dude. Agreed.
All right, guys. Thank you all for being with us today.
Quick note, no show next week. Boo, it's in Tim's contract.
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