Payne Finds Jon... again

Speaker 1 You're listening

Speaker 3 to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

Speaker 4 Cold mornings, holiday to-dos, and all the hustle. I just want my wardrobe to be simple.
Pieces that look sharp, feel amazing, and that I'll actually reach for every day. That's why I turn to Quince.

Speaker 4 And the bonus, their pieces make gifting completely effortless. This season, Quince keeps it smart and simple.

Speaker 4 $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like a little everyday luxury and wool coats that are both stylish and durable.

Speaker 4 Their denim fits perfectly and is insanely comfortable and all without the high-end price.

Speaker 4 By working with ethical factories and top artisans, Quince delivers premium quality while cutting out the middlemen. So you get luxury pieces without the luxury markup.

Speaker 4 I'll be honest, I've been living in their cashmere sweaters. They're so soft, they look good, they hold up beautifully, even through all the holiday chaos.

Speaker 4 Quince also has amazing options for home, bath, kitchen, and travel. If you're looking for a great one-stop shop for gifting, I'm telling you, Quince is where it's at.

Speaker 4 Give and get timeless holiday staples that last this season with Quince. Go to quince.com/slash up and vanished for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Now available in Canada, too.

Speaker 4 That's quinceq.com slash up and vanished. Free shipping and 365-day returns.
Quince.com/slash up and vanished.

Speaker 5 It's one of Britain's most notorious crimes, the killing of a wealthy family at Whitehouse Farm. But I got a tip that the story of this famous case might be all wrong.

Speaker 1 I know there's going to be a twist, willn't they? A massive twist. At every level of the criminal justice system, there's been a cover-up in this case.

Speaker 5 I'm Heidi Blake. Blood Relatives is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker.
Find it now in the In the Dark podcast feed.

Speaker 4 Good morning, Facebook.

Speaker 4 Oregon John, aka Playchon Johns.

Speaker 6 You didn't even ask for the chainsaw.

Speaker 6 No, I didn't. I was trying to tell you to get out of my way because you won't listen to reasoning because you're too drunk and don't belong to sleep.

Speaker 6 Yeah, well, no one, you're still watching. watching.

Speaker 1 No, you aren't. Holy moly.

Speaker 4 He just sent me a video of himself.

Speaker 1 Charging handle.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Holy shit, that's a monster.

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 7 We all know how I first found John with a fake name through a fake Facebook. I did, however, eventually reach out to John as the real me.

Speaker 7 All I want is the truth.

Speaker 4 John.

Speaker 4 This is Payne Lindsay.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Payne Lindsay. I'm the podcast guy.

Speaker 4 Oh.

Speaker 4 How's it going?

Speaker 4 Question for you, would you ever be down to sit down one-on-one and just talk to me about everything?

Speaker 4 Um

Speaker 4 we can set the terms and you know make it comfortable for both of us, you know.

Speaker 4 Um,

Speaker 1 all I'd have is the truth.

Speaker 1 You know, that's it.

Speaker 4 Well, let's talk about this.

Speaker 1 I appreciate this.

Speaker 1 Got some stories for you. You have no idea.

Speaker 7 He appreciated this, and honestly, I did too. But this is the last time I spoke to John.
On my last call, he gave me his real number.

Speaker 7 He said he wanted to tell me his truth, but then

Speaker 7 nothing.

Speaker 7 He vanished again.

Speaker 7 And that's the thing about Oregon John. He doesn't just disappear.
He seems to evade, mutate. He only becomes harder to find and harder to trust.

Speaker 7 And when he does show up again, you're never really sure who you're talking to.

Speaker 7 John Girton isn't just some sketchy name that came up once. He is the last known person to see Florence Okpiolik alive.

Speaker 7 He had her phone, her things, in his tent, and somehow he slipped through the cracks. He made wild accusations the first time I tracked him down last year.

Speaker 7 And even then, I walked away thinking, who is this man?

Speaker 7 What the hell am I really dealing with? No matter how many different ways you look at Florence's case, It always, always goes back to John.

Speaker 7 So, in classic up-and-vanish fashion, I found myself in a deja vu state, starting all over again. It was hard enough to find John the first time.
This time, surely it was not going to be easier.

Speaker 1 Call has been for

Speaker 4 is it your fucking fax number? I'm so sick of this shit.

Speaker 7 The number John gave me was blocked or a fax number? I don't know. But of course it was.
So what do I do? I first called the homeless shelter in Ketchikan.

Speaker 4 Hi, this is Ty.

Speaker 4 I called the shelter and I was given your number, I guess, if I had additional questions. I'm trying to locate one of my friends who I think may be staying there.

Speaker 1 So I can't give out any information if someone is staying with us or not.

Speaker 1 Just as a headset, I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny if, you know, if I i did give it to him or anything like that so so what is the person's name you're looking for

Speaker 4 his name is john girton

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 hold on john girton one second

Speaker 1 let me look at something really quick one second

Speaker 1 um so i can actually say that he is not staying with us he is currently not a client with us

Speaker 4 Is there anywhere else in town that is a similar establishment where he may be?

Speaker 1 No, no, we're the only filter in town, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 If it's to the point of like a missing persons thing,

Speaker 1 you could contact our police department.

Speaker 7 Missing persons thing. Kind of ironic.
But I guess John was missing too.

Speaker 4 He isn't a missing person per se.

Speaker 4 I would qualify it more like a hiding person.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah, yeah. I get you.

Speaker 1 I was trying to remember why the name sounded so familiar, and I do recall that there was a big flubbub.

Speaker 1 Oh, bad, it was a while ago, sometime last year, and his name was splashed across Facebook, catch a can-related things, podcasts.

Speaker 1 And I do know that every once in a while his name pops back up on those things because people were pretty concerned about him, obviously. And I feel like there were some reports of some

Speaker 1 at least peculiar behavior, if not concerning behaviors.

Speaker 7 That's interesting.

Speaker 1 I would definitely keep an eye on my catch-can community news.

Speaker 7 But no look there. On to the next part of my plan.

Speaker 4 Let's just do what always seems to never work and call the police department.

Speaker 1 7350.

Speaker 1 You have reached the Ketch Can Correctional Center. For an attendant, press zero.

Speaker 1 Please spell the offender's first name using your telephone keypad.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, I can't find the offender you are searching for.

Speaker 1 Well, that's a whole bunch of shit.

Speaker 1 Administration, press zero. Booking, press one.

Speaker 1 Ketchup State Correctional Center staff, Sergeant Bailey. How may I help you?

Speaker 4 Hey, Sergeant Billy, how you doing? My name is Payne. I'm trying to locate a man named John Girton, and I'm curious if he has been booked.

Speaker 4 There's been no Girton here. Do you know the best way to either online or

Speaker 4 through your establishment, find out the records of this?

Speaker 1 Do you know where he resides?

Speaker 4 He's in Ketchikan? He's in Ketchikan, yes.

Speaker 1 You said his last name was what?

Speaker 4 It's Girton. It's spelled G-E-R-T-O-N.

Speaker 4 What's his first name? John, just J-O-N.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I have a John Girton from January 15th of 2025. Born in Portland.

Speaker 4 That's him.

Speaker 1 That's the last last time he was here, and he was released on January 15th.

Speaker 1 Arrested for violating a restraining protective order.

Speaker 1 So his case is not adjudicated, meaning that he's not been sentenced. The judge hasn't made a formal judgment related to this case.
He was arrested at 241

Speaker 1 Avenue. DoorDash, driver, looking at this form shows that I fingerprinted him on January 15th.

Speaker 7 John was arrested in Ketchikan. Currently out on bail.

Speaker 1 Jesse has a friend who's just emergency contact with an own number associated.

Speaker 7 Another name. Another rabbit hole.

Speaker 4 Jesse, Jesse, Jesse.

Speaker 4 Hello?

Speaker 4 Hey, is this Jesse?

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 1 Wrong number.

Speaker 1 Okay, bro.

Speaker 4 We're getting a call back.

Speaker 1 The mailbox is full and cannot accept any messages at this time.

Speaker 8 Goodbye.

Speaker 4 Goodbye to you, too.

Speaker 7 Was that weird, or am I letting my own frustrations get to me here? I didn't like the way that call ended.

Speaker 7 If John's living with this guy, I need to know that.

Speaker 4 James,

Speaker 4 James, can you hear me, man?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Okay, you don't have a brother named Jesse?

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 4 Okay,

Speaker 4 my records show that you do

Speaker 4 James

Speaker 4 Yeah

Speaker 1 I don't know who that is

Speaker 1 I can't help you

Speaker 4 Why not

Speaker 4 why can't you help me

Speaker 1 James

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 His friend's address, which might be where he lives.

Speaker 4 Holy shit, yes, it is. That's the same place.
That John wanted me to meet him at months ago.

Speaker 4 Property detail.

Speaker 4 yes.

Speaker 4 Rental property, number of residence, 19.

Speaker 4 John Allen Gurton.

Speaker 4 Got your ass.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 4 what's the smartest way to get a hold of him?

Speaker 4 I need to find a way to send a safe, professional person,

Speaker 4 a private investigator, a process server, somebody on my behalf, to go to John's door, hand him a burner phone, and tell him to fucking call me.

Speaker 1 Hi, so I just got off the phone with Otto. He likes to talk, so it took a while.
He states that guy doesn't live up there.

Speaker 7 This is when I brought in Clyde. He's a process server, professional, tactical, and most importantly, local.
I told him the whole story, everything.

Speaker 7 He didn't hesitate.

Speaker 4 Another guy named Jesse,

Speaker 4 the name John Girton gave the police as his contact,

Speaker 4 very well could be staying with this guy.

Speaker 4 I know Jesse and his wife,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 I wouldn't think he'd be staying with them,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 who am I?

Speaker 7 Well, at least we have an inn here.

Speaker 4 I will say that John has a history of doing cab driving, taxi driving.

Speaker 1 I've got no problem with, you know, going to the Ketchfan Lake Road and asking Jesse or Crystal, whoever comes to the door, if John's living there.

Speaker 4 He's not in trouble for anything, but he promised to have a conversation with me.

Speaker 4 And now I haven't been able to track him down.

Speaker 4 Really, I'm trying to make contact with him and give him the means to contact me.

Speaker 7 At this point, my plan was evolving. I wanted Clyde to find John however possible and give him a package from me inside a simple one-page note in a prepaid phone that John can call me on.

Speaker 4 It wouldn't surprise me if a phone was given to Jesse, then John comes back home later and John's like oh yeah this guy's crazy throw that away blah blah blah blah blah

Speaker 7 so do you want to give me this phone I first need to give Clyde the actual phone itself but I am worried about Clyde giving it to anyone else other than John himself hey just to let you know ATT doesn't sell burner phones

Speaker 1 ATT sells prepaid phones at Walmart then you take the phone to the AT ⁇ T store they give you a phone number and you pick a plan you want

Speaker 1 any plan I don't care I'm gonna drive out to Walmart figure this whole thing out okay Clyde's at Walmart no I'll pay right now she's hooking up the prepaid account it's got both internet and minutes she said

Speaker 1 I've got this phone. What do you want me to do with it?

Speaker 4 I actually have a list of instructions that I have just finished writing out for you to keep it very simple.

Speaker 1 I'll attempt service of him at Jesse's house. I will check the court record where the restraining order was served upon him.

Speaker 7 Maybe now we're getting somewhere. I hope so.

Speaker 1 I went to Jesse's house. His wife was home.
She was adamant that John has never lived there.

Speaker 1 She definitely knew who he was. Jesse called me, knew who John was.

Speaker 4 Any inkling as to where he's staying? Because he has to be sleeping somewhere.

Speaker 7 He's not nowhere. He's in Ketchikan.

Speaker 1 He believes he's living in his car.

Speaker 4 I've seen this car before.

Speaker 7 I know exactly what it looks like.

Speaker 1 I'm just driving by a early 90s Subaru Outback.

Speaker 4 I'm sending you two pictures in a video.

Speaker 1 It's white and it's

Speaker 1 looking like it's worse for wear and tear and it's obvious that somebody is likely living in there.

Speaker 1 Hold on.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, there's a dude in there sleeping.

Speaker 1 Is there somebody humped over in the front seat? So he's either dead or sleeping, one or the other.

Speaker 7 He found a white 90s Subaru, beat up, sunfaded, with a man hunched over in the front seat.

Speaker 1 John,

Speaker 1 John?

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 Hey.

Speaker 1 Look at me.

Speaker 1 Are you John?

Speaker 1 I am.

Speaker 1 Okay, wake up.

Speaker 1 It's okay.

Speaker 1 What's your name? Ted. Oh, you're Ted?

Speaker 1 Where did you get this car from?

Speaker 1 My friend.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 who's your friend? Daniel. Oh, Daniel? Because I thought this was John's car.

Speaker 7 I thought it was John's car, too.

Speaker 7 How many white Subarus were in Ketchikan?

Speaker 4 I think everyone's had that what-if moment. What if I started my own business? What if I finally took that leap? But here's the thing, those what-ifs don't have to hold you back.

Speaker 4 Because with Shopify, turning your idea into something real has never been easier.

Speaker 4 Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, including 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.

Speaker 4 From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands that are just getting started. Worried you don't have a big team? Shopify helps you do it all.

Speaker 4 Design your website, manage inventory, handle customer service, even global shipping. Tight marketing budget?

Speaker 4 Shopify's built-in email and social tools make it easy to reach new customers and keep them coming back. Want to sell in person too?

Speaker 4 Shopify's award-winning point of sale connects your online and in-store sales all in one place. And if you're dreaming big, you can sell in over 150 countries with Shopify's global tools.

Speaker 4 With 99.99% uptime and the best converting checkout on the planet, you'll never miss a sale. So stop asking what if and start saying why not.

Speaker 4 Turn those what ifs into wins and keep giving those big dreams the best shot with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/slash up and vanished.

Speaker 4 That's shopify.com slash up and vanished.

Speaker 9 Ready to level up?

Speaker 10 Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun.

Speaker 11 It's free to play with no purchase necessary.

Speaker 13 Enjoy hundreds of online social games like Blackjack, Slots, and Solitaire anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week, whether you're at home or on the go.

Speaker 16 Let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you.

Speaker 9 Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus.

Speaker 19 Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today.

Speaker 2 No purchase necessary VGW Group Voidbore prohibited by law 21 plus TNCs apply.

Speaker 8 Y'all, the holidays are approaching. The air is crisp and cozy.
Polished layers have never felt more essential. That's why I'm loving Quince this season.

Speaker 8 Their sweaters, outerwear, and everyday essentials feel luxurious, look timeless, and make holiday dressing and gifting so effortless. I've been living in their silk slip dress and cashmere layers.

Speaker 8 They've become my go-to for holiday gatherings, errands, and everything in between. The layered look is the best.

Speaker 8 Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished, and last from Quince. Perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself.

Speaker 8 Go to quince.com slash vanishedweekly for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too.

Speaker 8 That's q-u-in-ce-e.com/slash slash vanishedweekly to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash vanishedweekly.

Speaker 7 Last year, a listener of Up and Vanished, who lives in Ketchikan, sent me pictures and video of John's car.

Speaker 7 I need to confirm if this is actually his car or not, and also where those pictures and video were actually taken sorry for the random call

Speaker 4 if you have two minutes i'd love to chat it's kind of urgent

Speaker 7 so i texted her

Speaker 7 and just face timed her

Speaker 4 Did you mean to FaceTime me? I did.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 21 I'm like, there's a 310 number calling me. I don't know who it is.
And then I said, paying Lindsay, and I'm like, oh, that's that podcast.

Speaker 4 You're like, that guy.

Speaker 13 How can I help you today?

Speaker 7 Maybe this listener, a local inquetican, can confirm whether or not this is actually John's car.

Speaker 7 It's listeners just like her who truly make a difference in these cases. And her willingness to help out of nowhere is the exact energy we need to solve this thing.
She FaceTimed in another friend.

Speaker 7 This lady told me that she saw John's car parked at the local McDonald's literally yesterday. She was around the corner from that same McDonald's, so she pulled up.

Speaker 1 I just ordered some food. I'm sitting at a table.

Speaker 1 I can see him in that camo coat he's always wearing.

Speaker 7 Sure enough, there he was, John Gurdon, sitting in a chair eating lunch.

Speaker 22 We do live on an island and driving around town and there he was sitting in McDonald's.

Speaker 7 Okay, this situation just went from urgent to frantic. I called Clyde.
He's at the McDonald's right now, but he's finishing his meal and he's about to leave.

Speaker 7 One of our fellow listeners in Ketchikan stayed at McDonald's on the phone with me.

Speaker 7 John was getting up. He was done eating.
Then he walked out the door. This cannot be how this ends.

Speaker 7 Clyde, please get there.

Speaker 23 Hey, John. Oh, geez.

Speaker 7 You scared me, sir. Clyde pulls up just in time.

Speaker 23 Hey, my name's Clyde. Yes.
Hey, I was asked to drop this off with you.

Speaker 23 It's a brand new phone with a note in it. And I was just,

Speaker 23 somebody dropped it by my office today and asked me to get it to you.

Speaker 23 Okay?

Speaker 23 Somebody thought it would be a funny idea when I'm on Ketch Can Community Cycle that I was a murderer.

Speaker 4 You're a murderer?

Speaker 23 And I've got federal credentials.

Speaker 7 How did you get murdered?

Speaker 23 Some girl in Nome. Oh, okay.
I lived up there for four years with a goldmire.

Speaker 23 I started receiving death threats.

Speaker 7 People hit me with their car.

Speaker 23 So I went up to the police. But I mean, you didn't murder me.

Speaker 7 No, no, no.

Speaker 23 The police goes, yeah, we already heard about this. We ran a complete investigation.
Nome Police Department doesn't even know who you are.

Speaker 7 Well, that's not true.

Speaker 7 Now, he just has to take the package.

Speaker 23 I got robbed by a homeless person out here, and I pressed charges. Well, how do you get robbed by a homeless person, man? You're you're a pretty big dude.
Looks like you could take care of yourself.

Speaker 7 Um, it was a female, oh, and I don't hit women.

Speaker 7 Thanks for letting us know. It's funny the way he talks so openly.
Clyde shook John's hand and left.

Speaker 1 You ready to talk?

Speaker 4 I'm ready to talk.

Speaker 1 Okay, it's all taken care of.

Speaker 1 He's got the phone

Speaker 1 and life is grand, I guess. I talked to him for six or seven minutes and he went on about this, that, and the other thing.
He's going to church. His wife is in the Philippines.

Speaker 1 I said, well, you know, it's a phone with minutes on it. You're good to go.
You know, call whoever you want type thing. There's a note in there for you also.

Speaker 1 He just kept talking. He went on about how he got to town and somebody even said he was a murderer.
I said, who did you murder? And he says, something about some girl up in Nome.

Speaker 1 And I said, well, did you murder her? And he goes, no.

Speaker 1 He goes, I was cleared. But it just went on and on like that.

Speaker 7 Clyde's job was done. He successfully delivered the package to Organ John.

Speaker 7 Hearing the tape from Clyde and John talking felt very reminiscent of my time with John at the local bar. If John Girton was cleared, I wouldn't even be talking to you today.

Speaker 7 I know John had the phone. He held it in his hand.
I have video of this. Now,

Speaker 4 all I could do is wait.

Speaker 7 My mind's going in all different directions. Is he reading my letter? What's he going to think?

Speaker 7 Is this a lifeline? A trap? A test?

Speaker 7 All three?

Speaker 7 I want to follow up on my end of the deal, giving John one last chance to clear the air about everything.

Speaker 7 Despite being thousands of miles away, this was the closest I'd been to him in months.

Speaker 7 Hello.

Speaker 7 Hi, is this uh Payne?

Speaker 4 This is Payne. Is this John? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 So you got the phone?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I

Speaker 1 believe in telling the truth as much as I can remember it or anything. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 I want to get down to brass tax again.

Speaker 4 Because,

Speaker 4 like, I don't want to keep doing this, you know?

Speaker 4 I really reached out to this degree to try to give you a chance to say anything that you wanted or needed to say so that you don't go down as the bad guy.

Speaker 1 I could not fathom how much

Speaker 1 it would take to even do something, let alone

Speaker 1 so cleanly. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It's impossible.

Speaker 1 How is this where nobody knows nothing? You know what I'm saying? Or nobody, there's no proof of anything,

Speaker 1 you know.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, I mean, to say,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 that's what mind-boggles me so much.

Speaker 1 The thing is,

Speaker 1 why,

Speaker 1 my biggest question is, why?

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 1 Why

Speaker 1 would somebody choose her?

Speaker 4 Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, wishing you a very happy half-off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service.

Speaker 4 Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price.

Speaker 24 So that means a half day.

Speaker 4 Yeah? Give it a try at mintmobile.com/slash switch.

Speaker 24 Upfront front payment of $45 for a three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for the first three months only.
Speed slow under 55 gigabytes of networks busy.

Speaker 24 Taxes and fees extra.

Speaker 15 See Mintmobile.com.

Speaker 9 Ready to level up?

Speaker 10 Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun.

Speaker 11 It's free to play with no purchase necessary.

Speaker 3 Enjoy hundreds of online social games like Blackjack, Slots, and Solitaire.

Speaker 14 Anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week.

Speaker 15 Whether you are at home or on the go, let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you.

Speaker 9 Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus.

Speaker 19 Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today.

Speaker 2 No purchase necessary VGW Group Voidword Prohibited by Law 21 Plus TNCs apply.

Speaker 9 Ready to level up?

Speaker 10 Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun.

Speaker 11 It's free to play with no purchase necessary.

Speaker 13 Enjoy hundreds of online social games like Blackjack, Slots, and Solitaire anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week, whether you are at home or on the go.

Speaker 16 Let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you.

Speaker 9 Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus.

Speaker 19 Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumpa Casino today.

Speaker 14 No purchase necessary, VGW Group, Voidword prohibited by law 21 plus TNCs apply.

Speaker 7 He's the last person to see Florence Akpiolik alive. He had her phone, her things, inside his tent.

Speaker 7 His stories don't make sense. He doesn't have an alibi.
He made wild accusations, paranoid rants, rambling stories that didn't line up. He played the victim, claimed he was being framed.

Speaker 7 and maybe he believes that. Or maybe some of what he's saying is true.

Speaker 7 That night, I talked to John for hours, and then hours again the next night. All these calls are recorded, and you're going to get to hear them.

Speaker 7 And right now, John says he's ready to talk in a different way.

Speaker 7 In person, man-to-man, face-to-face, to finally tell me his truth.

Speaker 7 So this week, we're meeting, and hopefully I walk away with the answers I need to solve Florence's case once and for all.

Speaker 7 But here's the thing with John: Which version of him am I going to get? What version of the truth is he ready to tell?

Speaker 7 Because this isn't just about finding John, it's about finding out who John really is, and what, if anything, he had to do with Flo's disappearance.

Speaker 7 Just when I thought I had my hands full full with Oregon John, another bombshell dropped.

Speaker 1 My brother, on my dad's side, he was married to Kim Pescoia during the time Joseph went missing.

Speaker 1 I really think he knows something about the truck, Joseph's truck, but the Pescoias have a good grip on him.

Speaker 1 He's not coming forward every time I bring it up to him. He's very hush-hush.

Speaker 1 I think he parked it. He helped park Joseph's vehicle.

Speaker 1 I think he didn't know what he was even doing at the time.

Speaker 1 My gut feelings are almost always right.

Speaker 1 You really need to talk to my brother.

Speaker 7 Oh,

Speaker 7 don't worry. We already did.

Speaker 7 Keep your friends close.

Speaker 7 Stay tuned for another update this week on when to expect the next episode.

Speaker 7 But I promise you, the team and I are busting our ass. And our number one priority is that we do this right.
I'm meeting with John Girton this week.

Speaker 7 In the meantime, you can follow my Instagram for faster updates. My handle is at Payne Lindsey.
And the same for Up and Vanished, at Up and Vanished.

Speaker 7 Talk soon.

Speaker 14 This is an Etsy holiday ad, but you won't hear any sleigh bells or classic carols. Instead, you'll hear something original.
The sound of an Etsy holiday, which sounds like this.

Speaker 14 Now that's special. Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy.
For gifts that say, I get you, shop Etsy. Tap the banner to shop now.

Speaker 4 Every story has layers, and sometimes the truth hides in plain sight. I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive.

Speaker 4 From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems. Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it.

Speaker 4 Listen to Chameleon, wherever you get your podcasts.