The Truth According To Jon

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My name is Ed.

Everyone say hello, Ed.

I'm from a very rural background myself.

My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin.

So like, it's not like.

What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago.

I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.

On the 22nd of July, 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family.

And then

he came to my house.

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder take center stage.

Coming September 2nd,

listen to Wise Crack on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For ad-free listening, exclusive bonuses, and early access starting next week, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at TenderfootPlus.com or on Apple Podcasts.

Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder.

The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes.

Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey.

Thank you so much for listening.

Recently, I've spent hours on the phone with John Girton.

And what you're about to hear is what he says is the truth.

The man at the center of Florence Lockpialock's disappearance.

No more waiting.

You're going to get to hear him right now.

Unfiltered, his own words.

This isn't an interview.

It's a real phone call.

A long, winding conversation between me and John.

And what he tells me, it's strange.

It's messy.

And it might change everything.

This is the truth, according to John.

I didn't have a lot of choice because I had nowhere to go when things start going downhill here.

Because I don't prior to just coming here,

Christmas two years ago, I mean, literally four months before coming here, um, my mother passed away Christmas Eve, and then uh two weeks later, my brother passed from a fentanyl overdose.

Oh, man.

And then I lost my father three weeks later to a stroke.

So I really didn't have anywhere to go.

And so when I came up here, I lost my job with the state,

which was

the result

of the rumors going around.

There were gentlemen on the boats that were going around calling me serial killer, and I yelled at them and I was removed of duty for violating a bulletin policy because I yelled at them.

And

now, are you the same guy I met?

Yes.

I'm the guy you met in the bar, remember?

Yes, yes, yes.

And, you know, a lot of that, I think I didn't explain correctly, like the part about

the diver and the barrel.

I never confirmed that.

That was just something somebody had told me.

What do you mean?

Which part?

The part

where the girl accused the rescue diver and said that there was a barrel under the house.

That was just something somebody told me.

I never verified any of that.

And so

I was just relaying what I was told you know and um

i tell anybody that'll listen to me my story and like

you know it was pretty easy to get me to talk about it because i want everybody to know you know and um the fbi they were there for three and a half weeks and did a full investigation and they even

cleared me and you know cleared with and they said no foul play even so i don't know i kind of stay out of it you know and

it got pretty bad around here.

I got hit by a car.

I've been threatened multiple times.

I've been assaulted.

And

it got pretty bad.

And the police here, I remember

from

fake profiles on Facebook.

So what are people saying?

They've actually changed it now.

Apparently, I got robbed by a girl out from McDonald's and she assaulted me and I pressed charges.

And so she had her friend go online and now there's two women I

supposedly,

yeah,

and they just made up.

And the police here conducted an investigation because they were receiving complaints because somebody posted the podcast.

on Ketchikan Community Cycle, which is a community Facebook thing.

And the only reason I even found out about it was because fellow employees on the ferry, my chief steward called me and personal friends of mine, too, at work.

They said, hey, dude, and I listened to about 10, 15 minutes of it, and I kind of started crying.

I couldn't listen to it anymore.

And now apparently I'm a child molester, too, and a rapist.

I've molested children now, too.

And then at one point, because Tetchikan has completely taken this and just

they actually forged Tetchy Can murder warrant documents and registered sex offender paperwork and sent it to my wife in the Philippines.

I had to take her into the DA's office and

tell her that it's all fake and that I am not wanted for any crimes.

Wait, so who forged these documents?

Because that's a crime in itself, isn't it?

Yes, but Ketchikan doesn't have the means to find out because they used a fake profile.

And I went in with the fake, and you can tell it's fake because when you open up the profile,

there's no dates.

The profiles only existed for a month, and there's no photo, you know, and it's obvious.

And

see, they never came to me when they received the complaints because people were calling them and complaining to them that I'm here and they want to know what they're doing about it.

So when I went in with the actual, I've been literally have received death threats.

And they said, well, we conducted our own investigation a couple of weeks ago, and law enforcement doesn't even know who you are up there or anything about the case because

the FBI, okay.

No MPD was, they even tried to talk to them.

They refused to talk to me, right?

They impounded a car that I ran in for my friend, and I told them out to go fishing.

but

any one of my friends they were going in their homes and serving search warrants I tried to talk to them you know to help and so finally the FBI came in

with a group of about five investigators out of Anchorage

and they were there approximately I believe about three weeks I fully cooperated.

They're the only ones that ever interviewed me or come talk to me, you know, and I told them everything I did.

And

the only thing

they kept asking me about a black truck because

I don't know if you know the location, the beach where I was at,

it's about a quarter mile away from the paved road, and up on that paved road is the port, and there's a camera that overlooks the port.

Yeah, okay.

Um,

they said that they had a picture of a black truck with a female profile getting into it about the time when I said you know she left okay

and that's all I know because they just were asking me do you know anybody in a black truck no now

about a year earlier somebody loaned me a blue pickup that said Tanya on the back with two and a half foot letters so I mean highly identifiable and that was a cab company I was working at and I've got a four-meter and that's what I used for transportation a four-meter four-wheeler with no exhaust, and you could literally hear me come in.

And the FBI actually had me start it up for them, and

they had to cover their ears.

And they brought in cadaver dogs and everything, and I gave them permission to go into my tent.

I had a huge cabin tent because people were allowed to just show up.

I

befriended quite a few female friends.

I used to teach women self-defense and empowerment courses, right?

And teach them they don't have to be a victim.

The fact is, me being forced to stay here and not be able to

run away,

I have had to

every friend that I talk to when I first meet them, I explain to them my situation and I want them to be fully informed that before

you want to hang out with me,

that there is going to be a rumor, and people are going to come up to you and say, Why are you hanging out with him?

Do you know this, this, and this?

So, so what do you tell?

What do you tell them that that situation is?

I tell them everything.

Like, can you give me, can you tell me what I'm just curious?

I said I was in Nova Alaska.

I gave a girl a ride and a safe place to stay.

And in the morning, I heard her leave.

I tell them about her boyfriend or something.

showing up.

I tell him everything.

Her boyfriend.

And I don't.

Yeah, her boyfriend showed up the next day.

That's the person I gave the shoes and the phone to.

He worked with me.

I don't know.

I can't remember because I

tried blogging.

But he worked at the cab company.

He knew me.

And her sister was with him.

And she's like, he did something.

He goes, no, I know John.

John didn't do nothing.

So Florence was in your tent.

That's okay.

Florence was in your tent.

But let me finish.

But the next morning, Florence is missing, but you have her things.

Why is that?

Why is that?

Because, okay.

Because her boyfriend told me he had took her to the hospital, admitted her for treatment.

They put her on the drugs that don't let you allow to drink.

Well, she went out and went drinking.

That night, she became extremely unstable psychologically,

was talking about hurting herself.

There was about three three camps right there where I was and she wanted cigarettes so bad she went next door now there was a guy from Spain or something like that he'd been there every year too he knocked his tent down got upset because he didn't smoke I don't smoke she couldn't find a cigarette and I finally got her to calm down how'd you get how'd you get her to calm down I was just talking to her and tell her it's going to be okay.

Right.

You know,

I said, you know,

because she was talking about not wanting to live and everything like that.

And I

did not,

it was stressful for me watching her go through this.

You know, yeah.

Because

my tent was huge.

It was 18 by 24.

So, and I had a cot in one corner.

I had a wood stove in there to cook on and I had a solar panel and a 12-volt refrigerator.

So I had to let it go thing.

And I would set up pallets, you know, not pallet pallets, but that's what we call it, sleeping setups.

Yeah, just a little place to sleep by sleep.

And I've had two or three because

friends were always welcome to stop by.

As a matter of fact, that night, I was expecting two friends to stop by, a boyfriend, a girlfriend, very close friends, because they'd like to come out and hang out and we'd have a bonfire.

And, you know,

so everybody was always woke, you know, and just be respectful.

Who are these friends that you're talking about?

She moved back to the island, the island that's right out from the ocean, Sebunga, I believe, from

I mean the guy.

Oh,

well, it was, I was mainly friends with her,

but it was her boyfriend, and they kind of broke up right after that.

So I'm trying to remember.

They were in my old Facebook account.

And when I broke my phone last month, I lost the Facebook account and had to start a new one.

Can't really remember his name.

Okay, so let's just go back to the basics here.

Yeah.

So Florence was in your tent, and then when is the last time that you saw her?

Okay, I saw her when she went to sleep.

Okay, okay.

Now,

daylight, now you can tell in the tent it's daylight.

and

I'm laying there half awake, half asleep, and I hear her get up.

I hear her unzip the tent because it's

an eight-foot-tall zipper.

She unzips it and zips it down, and I figured she just went outside for a walk or to go take a pee somewhere.

You know, because that's whoa, what the girls do out there is they go behind the hill.

So, and uh, about

what time is that at?

About just guessing.

Okay, I actually looked at my phone to see what time it was.

That was 7:30.

I get up around 8:15, 8:20, and I'm looking around,

and she's not there.

So, I go outside and

I walk and I look up and I look down the beach

because

it's about a quarter of a mile walk to the road and it is a direct sight line and you could if somebody was walking i would at least see their silhouette and uh i don't see her anywhere so i'm like huh that's weird but it's not that weird out there because people that have been drinking and everything sometimes they just

leave leave where though

like why could you not

it's a it's a 15 20 minute walk to the road and from the road it's another 10-minute walk to downtown.

Back to when you're in the tent and she's asleep.

Did you actually see her with your own eyes leave?

No.

I heard her use the zipper.

How do you know?

How do you know it was her?

Because she was the only one there with me.

But you looked at your phone.

Why didn't you look up to see her?

Because when I looked at my phone,

she'd already zipped it down and was outside.

And I just looked at it and I go, Man, it's still early.

I'm a little late here in a while, right?

Because I wasn't facing the doorway, I was facing the wall because I sleep on my side.

I was too lazy to roll.

Look, because

I knew who it was.

So, either way, you realize at some point it looks like Florence left and she zipped the tent back up, right?

Yeah, did she leave anything behind or what?

Yeah, yeah um later on that day I didn't even realize it then

but I'm

folding the bedding over that I made for her and

underneath it was her phone and her shoes I'm like oh well she'll be back for these as soon as she realizes it so when did you realize that like not in the morning but no I didn't find them right away when so when did you find them that next day?

Well, okay, it was later on

that afternoon.

I was

curious to see like

what she left behind if she just dipped out on you?

No, because I didn't know she'd left anything behind.

Right.

You know, because to me,

I put my shoes on and I put my phone in my pocket and then I leave.

But

why didn't she do that?

That's so weird.

But because she was under the drugs the hospital gave her that you're not supposed to drink on.

So clearly, I don't think psychologically.

And

see,

I kinda have my own theory that a lot of people aren't talking about.

Let's hear it.

But

I really don't want to think this happened.

But up there, especially in Alaska with the addiction issues, there is a possibility and I

I you know, possible.

Um

The night earlier, she was talking about

wanting to live.

And I'm afraid that is a possibility.

What do you mean?

I think she walked out in the ocean.

So if you walked out in the ocean, because I've been out there on West Beach.

You're not just...

And I don't, you know, I mean, I'm afraid that it is, but I don't, I pray it's not.

But then the other alternatives is something else.

What's the other alternative?

Well,

somebody got her.

And who?

Okay, there's two options.

And who could that have been?

I don't know.

And like I said, well, it had to be someone close to your tent on the beach, so give me your best guess or

you know,

help me.

The guy next to me, he goes to church and he's a nice guy.

You go to church, you know, I don't.

Yeah, but and then the other,

there was a pallet house built right next to his tent.

It was a pallet, and it was a guy and a woman, you know, and I did not know them very well.

But I talked to the

Latino guy a lot, you know, because he was gold mining and stuff too.

And

we got along.

And, you know, we were kind of doing the same thing, you know, and I don't want to think that because,

you know, well, right now we have to think everything because

the bottom line is only two options.

You know,

that or the other, you know, and

because they kept asking me about a black truck, but it wasn't conclusive because

as much as they could tell me it was a female figure, there was nothing that they could tell me that it was even her.

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That night,

obviously you said that she was drinking.

What kind of drugs and drinks did you guys take that night?

I took no drugs and I took no drinking.

Oh, wait.

No, I was smoking some dabs.

Marijuana.

That was my thing.

Now, occasionally, and after that,

I

relapsed a little bit on the methamphetamines because of depression.

Around what time period?

About three to four weeks after the flu incident, because of my depression.

Why were you so depressed?

Because

people were saying

that I did something.

And I didn't.

Why do you think they were saying that?

Because

technically, I was the last person anyone knows that saw her.

Well, then, who do you think saw her after you?

I have no idea.

Don't you think that if you can figure that part out, then you'll be cleared forever?

But here, here's the thing: you want to hear something really weird?

And this is what I thought about later after Danny Girl called me in Oregon.

What is it?

Paul was Paul was coming out and visiting me.

Because

in and I went into town once, twice, and purchased some methamphetamines from him.

And then he was making trips out there to check on me.

And he would bring me out and

he was asking me questions and he would give me a little bit and I would talk to him because I was depressed.

And then

I'm like, I barely know this guy and

I didn't socialize with him.

I've only met him and purchased from him twice.

And why is he coming out to visit me?

I thought he was just trying to be a friend.

Well, then Danny Girl tells me this stuff, and I'm like,

because he was asking me questions.

He did me, he got me high.

Like, what kind of questions?

Like, what?

What do you remember about that?

Now it was slow.

Anything else?

Is anybody saying anything?

You know,

why would he ask that

I don't know but then after I make it to Oregon Danny Girl tells me

that

he was best friends with the diver guy she had the theory about

and she the reason she came up with the feral

theory is because she was working on the diver guy's house doing construction underneath it restacking the piers because that's what she did was concession work And she showed up one day,

and the way she explained it was right after Flo's disappearance, and he would no longer allow her under the house to do any work and stop the job completely.

And she goes, I think that he did something and put her and she's buried under the house.

Well, that was a good idea.

We've clearly, like, we've heard that, I mean, almost too many times, and you've even said you think it's a rumor.

And

secondly, I don't care about the drugs, man.

I don't give a shit.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm honest.

But I do have a question for you.

I found the picture from the FBI of the truck that you're talking about, and

I texted it to you.

Can you look at it and tell me if you recognize it?

This is interesting.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm not meaning to get excited.

It's just, you know, there's been so long and

okay,

pain image.

Cool, cool, cool.

No, no, um, because I am just as

much as I really, really, really

wish it wasn't an outcome like that, um, but still, I wanna know.

Okay, okay, okay.

I don't know, but like I said, it has a weird rack on the back, you know, because I never saw the picture.

They never showed me a picture.

It's a flat.

Maybe they did that.

Yeah.

And like I said, I described this and somebody told me it was a...

You described it to who?

Well, two or three of my friends in town to see if they knew who he was.

Because if I could find out some information, I could give it to the FBI because the FBI asked me.

Have you seen this picture before yet or no?

It is a possibility that the FBA showed me.

Because it is looking familiar now, the picture, not the truck, but the picture.

You know, and it would make sense that the FBI would have this and show it to me.

So probably, yes, they showed me.

Because I was,

at that point, I wanted to cooperate because, one,

I wanted to clear my name.

And two,

I really...

I really wanted everybody to know the truth.

Do you still want them to know the truth yes and because i know that i didn't but who did

yes and no but i'm asking you but who did

i i don't know because i had no involvement in that part it doesn't matter if you were involved you're saying that you didn't do it but you're hinting that you know who may have done it

well

All I was told by another friend that she was drinking with a guy in that truck, and she described him to me as a young white male,

mid to late 20s.

And

I don't know him.

Who is?

And I never, I don't, I don't know.

Who told you that?

But

God, I'm trying to remember her name.

Maybe I could have

maybe it would have changed the outcome of anything.

You know, a butterfly effect.

One small thing can change everything.

If I'd have got up and walked outside and made sure she was okay,

maybe whatever, whatever would have changed to, you know, let's take you to town.

Let's get you some cigarettes.

Are you hungry?

Where's home?

Can I drop you off?

Just anything that

is

nothing to me, no effort, just a small change.

could have had a drastic impact.

So

what do you think happened when she left the tent?

Because you have to have thought about this for years.

If I were you,

I would think a million possibilities.

Where have you landed?

Without any other further proof of anything, I can only

think that

she went in the ocean.

Why would she do that?

Because the night before, she was talking about, after I got her to come in,

she was talking about how her life was so horrible and that that how she's such a

burden on everybody and that she wishes, you know, that she wasn't around anymore.

And what did you say to that?

I told her, I said, look,

you know,

this is just how it looks to you right now at this moment.

You know, life gets better.

But her life is all about.

No, no, it didn't.

Because

I was too lazy to care about her.

I just assumed she was going to be okay.

Are you still too lazy to care?

No, because

everything that I believe in,

if I hadn't been too lazy

and assumed she was going to be all right, if I had just made sure of it,

the possibility of things being different would be extremely great.

What do you think that they would be?

How would they be different?

Well, I could have taken her to get help.

Why didn't you take her to get help that night?

Because it was late.

It wasn't that night when you picked her up from the nugget.

No, no, no, but I didn't realize that she was in that type of condition until late.

What you did, though, you said that whenever you talked to her, she didn't seem right and she was not able to complete sentences.

Yeah, and I figured just rest in and hang out would be fine.

do you see how somebody, not me, but somebody else could look like that as predatory behavior?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, but we're sitting here talking today, all these years later, because there's not enough evidence to point somewhere definitively yet, right?

But when I hear you say that after all these years, you feel like she walked into the ocean.

Here's my problem with that, John, is that there is the least amount of evidence to support that.

So

let's just go ahead and check that off the list and start with the other possibilities.

See, the other possibility is even harder to think about

because

then I would have to realize that my inaction resulted in something that is just

that would mean that something horrible happened to her.

I mean, granted that the other, you know, if sh if somebody should do herself, that's not demeaning the horribility of that.

But

that's what we're facing, John.

Yeah, that's what her family thinks.

Think about that.

You know, and I I swear to God,

I wished I could find out because

she wasn't a bad person.

She was just in a bad place.

And she hadn't done anything to deserve anything

done to her.

We get three hours of sunlight during the day between noon and like three or four.

But at night, even though it's dark, there's so much freaking snow.

Everything's lit up from the snow.

Land of the midnight sun, man.

I get on my wheeler and I'm going down the road heading

out of

okay.

The nugget,

the last hotel on the left going out of town towards my camp.

Fro was standing out there on the corner

right about in front of that bar.

I met her at the last bar at the other end of town on the same side of the street.

And I pulled up and I said, hey, what you doing?

Nothing.

Where's Busney?

Oh, she went home.

All right.

What are you doing?

Nothing, she says.

I'm like, well, I got some friends coming out with a bottle later.

Do you want to go hang out and do some dabs?

We're going to cook some dinner and drink and have a fire.

And she goes, Yeah, that was, well, she just said, yeah.

And she hopped on.

You saw her by herself and you gave her an invitation.

Yes, yes.

Well, what was her demeanor like?

it was inebriated, but she wasn't staggering.

She wasn't, you know,

but she wasn't overly conversative either.

She just said, yeah.

How did she seem to you?

She was functional, but.

What does functional mean?

She could stand up.

She could answer questions.

Like, hey, you want to go do something?

Yeah.

But she wasn't into giving prolonged answers or a conversation.

Just, I would ask her, you know, hey, uh,

do you want to go hang out?

I told her that those two are going to come over later and we're going to barbecue.

And I said, Do you want to go?

And she's just like, Yeah.

But she seemed pretty inebriated.

Yeah, but it was kind of weird.

It wasn't like a regular drunk inebriation.

And I thought that was kind of weird.

Tell me

why was it that you thought it was a good idea to bring her to your tent if she was in that condition?

Well,

because

nothing good happens in Nome after midnight.

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I know it is here in my hometown.

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If

I was involved with an accident or anything, I would have already come forward.

I would admit to it, and then

I would rather meet you face to face so you can look into my eyes.

I would be willing to go back to knowing with you.

For her, bro, it's not right.

And I don't know what to do.

I don't know how to help

because this is where I'm at.

You know, this in my mind.

You know, I

and I know

I didn't do anything,

but

I'm the only one that can really help.

It'll help Zomb memories or whatever, dude.

But I don't care about me anymore.

This has been going on in my life for so long now.

And I want,

you know, um,

and, you know, I mean, I'm not afraid of being in trouble because

I know what I did or didn't do.

You know what I'm saying?

You know, like I'm saying,

what

happened happened.

And after that, I don't know.

Up to that point.

After she shut that zipper, I have no idea because I wasn't there.

I know I didn't do anything wrong to her.

So

to be honest, I didn't do anything other than

not caring enough to get up the next morning when she left to her harmer, to be honest.

That's it.

Like I said, the night before, she was going through a

thing and she went extremely erratic,

started destroying other people's property.

And like I said, I

never touched her.

I never

tried to get her to do anything inappropriate.

That was the furthest from my mind.

At a certain point, I was actually

kind of scared because she got violent at other people.

And at that point, I tried to keep my distance and calm her down.

And when she got calmed down, and at that point, I was so relieved.

But she wasn't like hurting people.

She was knocking down their tent, screaming, and she was angry because she couldn't get a cigarette.

I don't

I wasn't over there when she was doing what she was doing to the people.

I was at my tent.

And I went out there and I got her to come back.

I remember finally talking her down, getting her to sleep, and I went to sleep.

Well, the only person that she

did anything to to be angry was my neighbor.

I went to sleep thinking everything was okay.

Then I heard you zip her in the morning and then I'm like, okay,

she must have went home.

And where do you think she went?

I have no idea

because I wasn't with her.

You were with her right before she went to wherever she went next.

So yes, you were.

But after that, I have no idea.

And I'll take polygraph, voice stress analysis, whatever they want.

And I mean, I do voice stress analysis, polygraph.

I mean, seriously, because

I'm being straight, bro, I know

that that's all where mine ends, you know what I mean?

You know, and

it's really hard

for me when people think that about me, or if there's even a possibility

because

it's not, you know,

and

it would give

something

to even the people listening, they're like, wow, you know,

you know,

you know,

because right now there's too much speculation.

There's too many questions.

At least this would answer some.

And, you know, then you can look and say, wow, John,

if you can set up, you know, polygraph or voice stress analysis or you know

I am 110% for that

you know because it will bring absolution

and

I can move on and

you know

I was confused as everybody

As of now, this is John's story.

Every twist, every dodge, every moment he claims as his truth.

And after all that, John agreed to something very big.

Something that surprised me.

He wants to take a polygraph test.

Live.

No editing.

No excuses.

And so we're going to do it.

This Sunday, May 18th, at 8 p.m.

Eastern Time, we're going to go live.

John Girton gets asked the hard questions by a real polygrapher in the most professional setting that we can create.

You'll get to hear it all for yourself, in real time.

No places to hide.

So, this Sunday, May 18th, at 8 p.m.

Eastern Time, follow Up and Vanished on Instagram.

We'll be going live on the Up and Vanished Instagram, which is just at Up and Vanished.

This is something we've never done before.

And honestly, I have no idea how this plays out.

But if you're as curious as I am, tune in.

Sunday, May 18th, 8 p.m.

Eastern, Instagram live at Up and Vanished.

See you Sunday.

Up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun is a production of Tunderfoot TV in association with Odyssey.

Your host is Payne Lindsey.

The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney.

Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey.

Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner.

Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington.

Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.

Additional production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanik Glenn, and Eric Quintana.

Artwork by Rob Sheridan.

Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set.

Mixed and Mastered by Cooper Skinner.

Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group.

Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team.

Additional information and resources can be found in our show notes.

For more podcasts like Up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv.

Thanks for listening.