Double Date with Megan Rapinoe & Sue Bird! (Best Of)

Like most of you, my schedule's crazy busy, and it's often tough for me to stay energized throughout the day. I often find that I'm dehydrated without even realizing I was thirsty.
This is when I ran across Terra Origins Healthy Hydration Plus, and it makes a difference. First of all, it actually tastes great, which is a huge win for anything that's supposed to be healthy.
It's packed with essential electrolytes that help maintain fluid balance, promote detoxification, and keep me energized. And the best part is that Tara Origin's on-the-go stick packets make it super easy to have with me no matter where I am.
Right now, Tara Origin is offering 25% off your first order with free shipping on all Healthy Hydration Plus and Healthy Greens orders. They offer free returns and a hundred

percent money back guarantee if you're not satisfied. So what are you waiting for? Visit

taraorigin.com today and start living your best life. That's T-E-R-R-A-O-R-I-G-I-N.com.

So you all know I've been using Boca for a while now and I'm into it. Okay, this is like the new toothpaste with lots of different flavors.
And it's kind of making my mornings and evenings a little bit more delightful. Boca is on a mission to inspire more mindful oral care.
Their toothpaste is free from fluoride, parabens, SLS, and artificial additives. It's powered by nature.
It's a clean, safe way to keep your mouth and body happy. And they have delightful and delicious flavors like Element.
And they also offer cool ones like Coco Ginger and Lemon Lavender. And they've got kid-friendly flavors like Orange Cream, Watermelon Mint, and New Strawberry Mango.
For a limited time, Boca is offering listeners 15% off its best-selling toothpastes on Amazon and Boca.com with code GLENON15. That's GLENON15.
Make the switch to Boca for the whole family. Hey, everybody.
We're getting through, aren't we? That's what we're doing. One foot in front of the other, 2025 is looking like it might be a real doozy.
And we are in it with you, and we're here for you and with you. Recently, our show was selected by Apple as one of their 10 shows we love, and they called it a comforting support system for braving the everyday.
And that is what we hope. We hope that we can help you brave the everyday.
That's what you help us do. And so on Sundays, we are publishing an episode for you, one of our favorite episodes of the past four years that we've selected to be a comforting support system for all of us as we brave this new year.
So in addition to our new Tuesday, Thursday episodes and the ones that we're posting on Wednesday as well, please come on Sunday for some togetherness, some support,

some soothing Sunday togetherness for 2025. Thank you.
We will see you there. hello hello hello Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things.
Today, we are inviting you to a double date. It's so exciting.
It is exciting. I feel nervous and excited a little bit like, and for the past few minutes, we've been talking about our own personal rules for our double date like you would imagine you and your partner driving to this said double date and like you're kind of talking about like what's gonna happen like what do you want to talk about oh yeah so our first double date and we can do our thing who is it megan rapino and sue third.
What? I mean, legends.

Yeah. All right.
Let's do this. Okay.
Megan and Sue. Here we are.
And I just want to explain to you what the hell we're doing here. Okay.
Abby and I decided a while back that we were going to try to have friends. Okay.
Like new friends? No. Just, oh, okay.
Just existing friends that reboot. Like we were just going to actually talk to the people that we call our friends.
Yeah. But we don't want to go anywhere or really do anything about it.
So what we decided was that we were going to have double dates on the podcast. So then we made a list of all of the people that we wanted to have a double date with.
And it kept just saying Megan and Sue. So here we are.
I love a 9am. A 9am double date.
Yeah. That's actually us.
Yeah. Isn't it? Well, in the sober world, when you don't drink at night, like you don't go get dinner and drinks if you're not drinking.
Yeah. So we do coffee.
Yeah. It's like, because it gets very arbitrary.
It's like the Goodwill hunting. It's like, do you want to get together and have some caramels? Yeah.
It's like, what the hell else do you do? So what are you guys doing? Like what in the hell are you doing? Where are you right now? Are you in Seattle? Yeah, we're in Seattle. We're in Seattle.
Um, we're both kind of Abby. I feel like, you know, this, um, stress and anxiety and life questioning feeling as well as we do.
We're in our January sort of like, it's just every year it comes, the anxiety comes, all of the questions about my life come. And it's like, I know what's happening still just happens, but we're working out and doing the things and doing it for us.
What are the questions? Because I feel this way. I want you to understand that this is not a sporty spice thing.
I think you're alluding to that because you just only called out Abby, but January is just a pit of existential dread all the time. For them, it's in the form of like a beep test.
That's where they're... The beep test.
Yeah, that's where they're. I don't have that experience.
Thank God we don't do that fitness testing stuff. It's just like the feeling of, you know, you can't wait to get to your vacation at the end of your season.
It's all you think about all year long. You can't wait.
Of course, you take your, you know, seven days off, like your really long break, seven days. And then you have to get going again.
Somehow in seven days, you forgot how to do everything and everything hurts and everything's like 20,000 times harder than it ever was before. And you're like, should I, should we just hang it up? Should I be done? Should, why is it so hard? Is everyone else doing it this hard? No, it looks easy for that.
It's just so dumb to like, get ready for us, you know, the sports. Is it like the Sunday scaries, but like times a million? Is it like on Sunday when everything feels terrifying and you forgot how to be out in the world and do whatever it is you do and you don't think you'll ever figure it out again? Is it like that, but harder? Well, I think that Megan and I were very similar in this way that when it was off season, we were off.
We took those seven and might I say maybe 14, we might have extended those days off. So that coming back into shape is just miserable.
And also when you get older, it's harder. It's just, it's just physiologically more difficult.
Some people just like stay in shape during that time, but I just never did. Um, but how is your body holding up Megan? Like, are you, are you feeling healthy at least? Um, I am feeling good.
Yeah. I, I had a little longer break actually this time than I normally do.
I obviously didn't go to the camp in Australia. So I feel like I was really able to kind of phase out like, okay, you're doing a little bit of rehab in the beginning and now we're doing strength.
And now I'm kind of back on the field, getting ready for preseason. So I actually feel pretty good, like knock on wood.
And I've been able to kind of slow roll it, which has been nice. And I haven't felt a ton of pressure.
There's always like a little bit of like,

I'm not going into this camp or whatever,

but it's actually been nice to not have that pressure.

And I just get to like roll into my club preseason,

which will be really nice.

So I feel pretty good.

Do you two feel,

so we were just talking to a good friend, Sarah Paulson,

and she was talking about how she's just gotten

to this point in her life where she's finally figured out that she knows how to do what she does. Like, it's not just one long fluke.
It's not like she's tricking the world every time she shows up. She actually tells herself, wait, you know how to act.
Like you can do this. It's not luck.
Do you guys feel like you can do sports yet? Or do you still feel like you're just tricking the world every time? And when you get a trophy or whatever you get, you're like, oh, thank God I tricked him again. Got him.
I think it's a dance. I think you're doing a dance.
I think there are days when you feel that way. And then there are days when you're like, man, I hope I score today.
You know? I think like Abby said, or she talked about getting older, what happens when you get older is you definitely start to realize what you're good at. You start to, when you're out there playing, you start to stick to what you're good at.
And then, but what happens is you're getting older, you're realizing you're really good at it, right? Like you've proven it. And then your body starts to go a little bit.
So then it's like this shift to like, well, is my body going to let me do it?

Like, I know I can do it now, but is my body going to let me do it?

And then, and then all of a sudden the, for me anyway,

the focus shifts to that where I'm in my workouts.

The minute I feel any pain, I'm like, Oh, this could be it.

This could be, you know,

and the rest of my week is spent in retirement and then I show up the next

week and it feels pretty good. And I'm like, all right, I could play forever.
So it's just this constant like dance. That's horseshit though.
That the second you figure out how to do it, you're, it's like, that reminds me of, of, I think I'm in paramenopause right now. That reminds me of that.
It's like, okay, I'm crushing it. I'm a badass.
I am like, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks about me. I am out there doing my thing.
And it's like, oh, but I'm going to have hot flashes every four minutes. Like, what the fuck? Yeah, but it's like your body's going to remind you and like knock you down nine pegs every time you start to get comfortable.
It's not like I feel like at this stage in both of our careers, it's like if all things were equal physically, it's like we'd be busting these kids asses.. Like it's not, it's like, I know what to do and exactly how to do it and where my advantages are and all that.
It's just about like bringing this body along to get it to the point where it can like halfway do what my mind is asking. Well, and as pro athletes, y'all never are actually, especially as we get older, you're never at a hundred percent.
So so you're always you're always dealing with something and like that just plays a massive role into the confidence that you could take as an athlete on the pitch or on the court so it's like i don't know i just think it's so fucking amazing that y'all are still playing i mean sue how right now? 41. Fuck.
That's how old I am. You couldn't pay me.
You're such a slacker. You could still, I can't understand what you're saying right now because I haven't listened because I keep going back to the fact that Megan Rapinoe just called a bunch of people on the team, the kids.
Yeah. I, yeah.
I feel like a great grandmother right now. Yes.
If Megan is referring to, wow. So you're like the old person now.
Yeah. Wow.
Are you the oldest on the team? Now that Carly's gone? And Becky. Becky, I think, is like a month older.
But no, it's Becky and I. And Sue, you are also? Oh, yeah.
Are you an oldie? I've been the oldest for like five years. And she just agreed to play for another year, which is amazing and wild to me.
I mean, have you treated your body perfectly forever? No. No, no, no, no.
How are you still moving? I'm like, no, 41. I'm 41.
Yeah. No, but I, I didn't do this forever, but I switched.
I switched like my workout regimen. I hired somebody, all this stuff probably six years ago now.
And that was like, I was plateauing and then it kind of, it wasn't even that like I took off. It was just like, oh, it didn't, it didn't do the decline.
It kind of just stayed. And then I was able to, like you guys talked about when you get older, you are just smarter.
You're more experienced than these players. So you can use that as long as your body's there.
So I just found a way to keep my body like hovering. And that's how, like, I always say, like people talk about father time.
I'm like, I'm just trying to tie him. I'm not trying to win.
I'm not, I'm not trying to win. I just need to tie.
Just keep up. You guys should become, well, you already are, but if you're a writer, you don't have to give a shit about your body.
I don't even have to like make it up the stairs. I'll be at the bottom of the stairs writing.
That's right. So how did you guys meet? Oh gosh.
The quick sort of version is, Abby, you know the like Olympic NBC media day. Uh-huh.
It's usually in LA. The all day.
The all day. You go from like uniform to this outfit.
Casual Saturday. From like date night.
Those are the outfits you have to bring. They tell you.

They're like, bring a date night, Saturday night,

a casual Sunday night, and then a workout outfit.

And then you have like your proper uniform.

And you're going to like change these outfits constantly.

And this is a pre, this is NBC pre Olympics.

So the NBC can get footage to use while the Olympics are playing.

Which you maybe see like 10 seconds of it ever. Yeah.
Yeah. It's like entertainment tonight.
Yeah. The sports, some news, like go into the social thing, like all of these different like stakeholders, media stakeholders are in the same thing.
So this was 2000, what? 16. Yeah.
16. So, um, Dan Levy, obviously my agent, you know, Dan, um, and Glennon very well.
Yeah. So it was like sort of in passing.
I also was not single at the time. I was actually engaged at the time.
So this was just kind of like a funny interaction. Dan basically like introduced me.
And it's like we had been in Seattle for whatever, a number of years. Like I obviously knew who she was.
But like, you know, I'd gone to a couple WNBABA games but didn't like know each other so Dan was like oh my gosh you guys should like you know sort of know each other and it was when I was saying she had her uniform on but then she had like the hair down and I'm sure like more makeup than you wanted tragic um yeah and I just like you know because I'm so cool and so smooth with everything I was just made some dumb joke that I immediately walked past her and rolled my eyes. And I was like, I can't fucking believe you just did that.
But I like walked. We kind of got introduced.
And it was one of those things, you know, when it's like quick and like, it's just one of these, like, it's just a weird thing. And I was like, oh, like you're ready for your game.
And just like, I was like, yeah.

Okay.

So there's that.

So we can't even be friends now because she's a loser.

So she's dead to me.

Yeah.

Like, obviously we can't.

I was like, oh, I heard she was cool.

Yeah.

Like everything that you've heard is a total lie.

Not.

Anyway, so that was kind of like our first.

That was like the proper first meeting.

A little interaction.

Yeah.

And then what was the next? Basically the olympics we famously you know bonked out in a massive way i was coming back from my acl so it was just the whole olympics for us was really kind of terrible but we got out so early and we never actually even made it to Rio. So I was like,

Oh,

I'm going to Rio.

There was like five or six of us.

We went to a few games.

We ended up,

you guys had,

you were staying on a cruise ship. So it was like different Olympic experiences,

different budgets,

different budgets,

wildly different.

I mean,

she said,

what is it called?

Manaus?

Manaus.

That,

that then appeared on 90 day fiance.

Yes. The hotel.
The

hotel did. And I was like, oh, I started watching that one season.
I don't regret it. I don't regret it.
It's not something I'm proud of, but I don't regret it. And I was like, oh, they're in this like crazy Brazil.
She's like, that's where we stayed. That's where we stayed.
I was like, what? My clothes are still damp. It's like, it was awful.
Different experiences. And just real quick, Can you explain to us why?

Why?

So it's actually very simple. USA basketball, the umbrella is both men's and women's.
There's a lot of like, how do I explain this? The NBA is very much involved in our USA basketball experience. It's, it's kind of all one big umbrella actually.
Like the NBA kind of owns the USA basketball rights and it gets kind of, there's a lot of detail to it, but with that, there's a certain standard in which the men are treated and we get treated the same as, as we should, as we deserve, but that's basically what happens. Yeah.
So it's like they charter, we charter, they actually cannot stay in the village. They're just entirely too famous.
It's the times we do go in there with them. It's wild.
So they, Oh, we always have to get something outside of the village. We, unlike, unlike you guys, um, we stay in the city the whole time.
We play the whole time. We stay in the city, whatever city it is the whole time.
And our traveling party's huge. We can bring guests.
So they get us get us like a hotel. Or in this case, they couldn't find a hotel.
Like logistically, that made sense. So we stayed on a cruise ship.
It was like below deck vibes. Very cool.
It's a much more like enjoyable, relaxed. You're not grinding.
Environment. Where we're like, you have one hour a day of family time.
You're like, okay. Yeah, it's like, okay.
Visitation. Yeah, everyone being miserable, that's going to help us, our performance on the field.
You guys just have more. But it's weird.
It's like they're not on contract like we are. No, it's a totally different model.
Do you get paid more than the soccer? Like, do you actually, the women, right. So it doesn't translate to actual pay.
Yeah, they don't even get like paid really. It's like, we get bonuses for winning.
No, but I mean like in the WNBA. So we're talking two separate things.
USA basketball is different than the WNBA. Right.
So like for them, and I'm sure you hear, and by the way, I'm like you, Glenn, like I had to learn all like their lives, like how it went. Their national team is like the priority.
It's where the money is. It's like where their contracts are.
For us, it's the WNBA and overseas. And then national team is second.
And for them, it's like national teams first. Got it.
And WSL second. Like it's a flipped.
Yeah. Got it.
Okay, cool. So you're in the Olympics.
Megan's out of the Olympics, but visiting the Olympics. Yes.
Yeah. She's a fan.
Sue is on below deck. Yes.
And so then how does this happen? So I had been going to, yeah, I've been going to a couple of games. Obviously we all, it's like, we didn't know each other, but like, we're in the exact same world in life.
We know the same people, like the agents, all, all the sort of things. Um, you're just going to skip the DM part.
Oh yeah. Well, it actually sounds like way more scandalous.
So obviously the summer of 16, it was like from a social justice, like perspective. I mean, we would just come off like 14, Ferguson, Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, like, you know, going into 50.
I feel like I was like educating myself more. The WNBA obviously is always the leader and in the forefront of social justice work and protests and all of that.
So summer of 16, the players from Minnesota had refused to speak to the media and worn the black shirts and kind of going into the Olympics. I slid into Sue's DMs.
I do love the DMs and like, she does not in, I just, it's like the blue truck, the blue check gets you far. Yeah.
No, I'm like, hi. It's like, that's how you met Carla, her stylist.
Yeah, like the guy who's doing our apartment right now.

Designing in New York.

Like I just slide into everyone's DMs.

Just goes right in.

And I'm like, hi.

Like you didn't ask for me, but here I am.

Anyway, so I had hit her like, hey, just amazing.

About social justice.

Yeah, like what, you know, you guys are doing,

if there's any way for our teams to partner or whatever.

This was pre-kneeling.

That happened sort of after we got back from the Olympics.

Just kind of, is there any way to connect or help like amplify whatever that it didn't really kind of like lead anywhere, but we sort of were like talking. If I had to like round this out, there's like, yeah, there's like all these like connecting points.
We met here and then we, oh, we, oh, I saw it. We saw each other at the USA house, which is this place that, um, at the Olympics, there's always like a USA house where every athlete can go and they have like food and different kind of entertainment things, whatever they do there.
We saw, I saw you there. And then she lost.
So then she was coming to my games. At that point we had connected on the DM and it was kind of like, oh, you know, good to see you, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing.
And then they came to, um, our after party. So we had one.
My fiance was there at the time. Sarah was there.
Sarah was there. So it was like.
So this is really like totally platonic at the time. If you are anything like every other parent I know, then you have dealt with or are dealing with a child struggling in a specific subject.
It becomes a challenge for the family. You end up fighting over homework, fighting over tests.
This is why we need to bring in the experts. IXL is an engaging online learning platform covering math, language arts, science, and social studies.
It's designed to help kids build a strong understanding of key topics in a fun, interactive way. With just one subscription, your child gets full access to lessons from pre-K all the way through 12th grade.
I-X-L is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. Make an impact on your child's learning.
Get iExcel now. And we can do hard things listeners.

Get an experience. is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S.
Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now.
And We Can Do Hard Things listeners get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXllearning.com slash weekend. Visit IXllearning.com slash weekend to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
Okay, I'm excited to tell you today about MidiHealth. If you have heard our menopause episodes, you know how passionate I feel about women having access to information about their bodies and about something that so fundamentally affects their lives.
Here's the deal. If you're over 40 and you're starting to experience some of the symptoms of perimenopause or menopause, if you're having hot flashes,

insomnia, brain fog, moodiness, all of this can be related to perimenopause or menopause.

Log on to MidiHealth. I have done this.
It is easy. In fact, I have recently been pursuing

with MidiHealth hormone therapy to replace some of the hormones that are diminishing in my body. There are clinicians, they meet with you and they suggest specialized care for your health concerns.
It's all through telehealth and 24-7 messaging and they call in your prescriptions to your local pharmacy. You deserve to feel great.
Book your virtual visit today at JoinMidi.com. This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax.
Taxes was waiting and wondering and worrying if you were going to get any money back. Now, Taxes is matching with a TurboTax expert who can do your taxes today, who gives your taxes their undivided attention as they work on your return while you get real-time updates on their progress, and who will find you every deduction possible and file every form, every investment, every everything everything with 100% accuracy.
All so you can

get the most money back guaranteed. Now, this is taxes.
Get an expert now on TurboTax.com.

Only available with TurboTax Live full service. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app.

See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. Okay, so you DMed Sue about social justice before the kneeling, before your kneeling.
So would you say that, because I secretly believe that the WMDA is in charge of the world. Yes.
I really do. Well, it certainly should be.
Yes. Holy shit.
So would you say that that influenced you? Oh, yeah. Good question.
The WNBA influenced you and the way that you decided to take on the kneeling. Do you think there's any way that that was influential to you? Yeah, definitely.
Because I think that they were the first ones doing anything publicly protesting as an athlete kind of during that time. Like they were talking before Colin was talking.
They had already done the protest in that summer and in their season. And it wasn't just with the Minnesota team.
It then kind of went league wide. You guys wore black t-shirts and, you know, refused to speak to the media about, I mean, if you remember that summer, it was like, there was like five really high profile murders of black men.
Um, and there was the shooting of the police officers. I think it was in Dallas.
It was a very violent and tragic summer sort of leading into Colin kneeling, which was like September or something. So I think I was already kind of like opening my eyes to what was happening and, you know, going through, like I said, like Trayvon Martin and then the protests in Ferguson and Michael Brown.
And that obviously extended really far. The formation of Black Lives Matter.
Like I was just like learning about it. I didn't really.
I mean, I don't think I was really thinking about it all that much before then. And then you guys, you know, and it was just much more is like I feel like that summer, every time you turned around like articles or in the Atlantic or the New York Times or Sports Illustrated, it was all just kind of like in the sort of zeitgeist of the moment.
So yeah, like you guys were the first ones to really speak out. And I think even it's like, even in my sort of like implicit bias, I think back then I would say Colin was probably a bigger influence.
Cause obviously when he spoke out, he got so much more media attention. It's the NFL, but like really they were saying the exact same, they were doing the exact same things, you know, in, in the best way that they could, or in the most impactful way that they could sort of prior to Colin even kneeling for the first time.
Yeah. So amazing.
And would you, Sue, that was mostly black women led, right? Is that the way that it, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
It was, it was Minnesota Lynx is really the team. And you would say Maya Moore, Simone Augustus, Rebecca Brunson on that team, Lindsay Whalen, those four, like I can picture the image.
There's a picture of them standing kind of at like a press conference with, they had made shirts. I forget the, the man's name who died in Minnesota, who was murdered.
Kestil, maybe. Philando.
Yes. Yes.
Yes. And that was, that was the instigator for them.
Cause this was like, this happened in our state. Um, and when they did that, the security guards who are generally like off duty police officers, they walked out.
And then the rest of our league was like, wait a minute. Like we need to support this, be a part of this, make it bigger.

And that's actually the first time we really started to learn the power of like the collective.

Like, yes, it was big when Minnesota did it because then I think New York Liberty followed.

I think maybe Phoenix Mercury followed.

Then the whole league followed.

And it was like, oh, when we're all doing this, then it's like a big boom versus just one team here, one team there.

So that was actually in terms of our journey as a league, that was the starting point of realizing the collective power. And the rest of us don't even understand, I don't think consciously the power of what you all do first, because I remember seeing the whole Loeffler situation, the Kelly Loeffler thing.
This is a 2020 election. Right.
That terrible woman. Or the 2018.
Right. And then, I don't know.
I don't know numbers. No, this is 2020.
2020 right that terrible woman or the 2018 right and then i don't know i don't know number no this is 2020 2020 yeah yeah but i remember seeing the vote warnock t-shirts and and i remember being like who's that yeah so how weird is that that like you know a year later we were all like this was my idea but that was the first. And that was so brave and amazing.

Like, wasn't that the owner of,

Lothler was the owner of the team.

And these women all walked out

with Vote Warnock t-shirts on.

So badass.

Of the players of the Atlanta Dream.

Dream, right?

Yeah, the Atlanta Dream.

The whole league did it.

Our entire league.

And that was like the beauty of the Wubble.

Obviously we're in a bubble

because shit's crazy.

COVID, so much, George Floyd. Like there's so much happening.
happening and we're both the beauty of the bubble was we were all together. So you can, and you know how it is.
I mean, how hard is it to get on a zoom with two other people, you know, finding time it's impossible. So for 144 women to be in one place at the same time, you could just like strategize.
Cause we're like, I know you're not doing shit. Get on this thing.
Like, come meet me. Yeah.
You guys were really the, like the sort of like the, the, the snap or the whatever firecracker, obviously, you know, shout out Stacey Abrams and fair fight and the activists on the ground. I mean, we had, they were setting the like groundwork, but it did,, but it did feel like the moment where it became more of a national thing or more thing that the casual person was thinking about.
And then you guys saved the Republic by getting us two more senators at least, even though we haven't really done enough with the advantage that we don't have.

Anyways, we don't need to get into that. And then you think about how much attention and credit women's soccer gets for things.
Yes. It's so fascinating.
and well, Megan and Sue,

why would you say that women's soccer

tends to be more celebrated in this country than the WNBA is? Well, and I mean, really just very bluntly, in our country that is white supremacist founded, heteronormativegendered patriarchal, the straight assumed generally white cisgendered women. Of course, it's like, we're cute and white.
Right. We talk about this all the time.
It's like we're cute and white and more palatable and we get to represent America, you know, with with the playing for the U.S. as our primary thing.
I mean, I just. It's like I I just can't get to any other conclusion other than the WNBA is like tall and black and everyone thinks everyone's gay and think about the society that that we live in and they're always compared to the counterparts which is the NBA and I think for I think people in America have a much better knowledge of basketball than soccer traditionally and so I mean even when people say like oh you guys are so much better than the men I'm like Yeah, it's really not like the goal, first of all than soccer traditionally.
And so, I mean, even when people say like, oh, you guys are so much better than the men. I'm like, yeah, it's really not like the goal first of all.
And also it's just like, it's just leaves out so much nuance where I think like, you know, every LA fitness, YMCA basketball guy, like thinks that he could be the best player in the WNBA and he just can't. So I think it's really simple.
I think that's why. Yep.
I think so too. From my massive sports background.
So you had all these meetings and run-ins. Sue, when did you know, oh shit, I'm in love with Megan? Or I like Megan even.
No, I want to know like- We're going to get there. We're like on a timeline.
I mean, obviously she liked Megan when she was so nerdy and was tried to like be cool at the Olympic thing. Right.
But like, when were you like, oh, and by the way, I want everyone to know who's listening that they just had like a little. We had a side bar.
Which is what we always do. It's more like, OK, wait, are we going to share that? Yeah.
I think the one part that's always just a little like I was with someone. So I never want to like disrespect that person.
and's just more like, okay, wait, timing shit. Are we going to share that? Yeah.
Are we going to share that? I think the one part that's always just a little, like I was with someone. Yes.
So I never want to like disrespect that person. Of course.
And, you know, I think. We have the same scenario.
So I get that. Yeah.
It's like there was emotional overlap, which is overlap. Yeah.
And that's, you know, what it is and not, I wish it didn't happen that way, but it did. So that's.
Right. So.
Preface with that. What we were side chatting about was, so there's, okay.
So this is one of those experiences where I feel like a lot of people have this experience. Okay.
Had Megan and I never ended up together, I never would have even remembered some of these little moments. They just would have been these like little bloops in your mind that come and go.
And it just, it just never would have been like a big, huge factor, but because we did, we can look back on it and be like, Oh, actually. So one of them is, um, at that Olympics.
Um, oh yeah. So she was at the after party.
We're all having fun. And, um, she was standing over and I was like bringing her a drink and like making sure she was all set.
That kind of a thing. Just being a good host,

you know,

just kind of chilling.

It was like,

you know,

me and Sarah at the time.

And then I think like Jess and Mary were around.

Like we didn't really know anyone.

So we were just kind of like posted up at this,

like,

you know,

tall table,

just kind of standing and chilling and listening.

Being a good host.

Just,

just being like,

I don't know what we're doing here,

but we're here.

And we got on the boat and it took us three days. Cause you had to give your passport and it was like a whole scene.
So we're like, we're here. Yeah, we're top security.
So yeah, so I kept like checking in on them, I guess. To be like, hey, blah, blah, blah, you know? And at one point, you know, one of my close friends is Diana Tarazi.
We obviously know each other very well. So I like had just left the table for probably like the fifth time or something, like walked away.
And she comes out to me, she goes, and get the fuck away from that table. And I was like, what? She was like, I know what's happening.
Get away from that table. You two know each other way.
Yeah. And I was like, shut up, you know, like whatever, whatever.
So again, had, you know, we never ended up together, that wouldn't even be, I mean, I guess I would remember it because it's funny. But it just was like whatever.
But now looking back, I clearly was like caring for her in this way. Yes.
Like I was like wanting to be near. But not in a disrespectful way.
That's I guess what I'm getting at. No, you weren't like prowling.
You just legitimately like kept coming over to the table. Like D saw it and was like, get the fuck away from that table.

That's so interesting.

So that's like,

so she's never cared about being a host this much.

That's sweet.

She was trying to protect you.

You know,

those are the kind of friends you have.

And now looking back,

I think that D was also trying to bring this to Sue's attention on a more

conscious level because D wanted it to happen for you. That's not your take.
Yeah. Oh, that's my, I think so.
But also it's like this funny thing where like, it was like, we all know each other because of course I know who Diana Taurasi is. Of course I know who Sue Bird is.
Like we all sort of like know each other, but we don't really know. I feel like women's sports is getting better at that or like women in, in sports or even just like entertainment or whatever.
Like I feel like we get a little more self-conscious where the guys are out there like, yo, what's up? Like, of course I know who you are. And like, I feel like it was a little, Dee's kind of funny and the same.
She's like, I don't want any new friends, but like that one seems that I could do Yeah Oh so she think You think But I think she was like Oh I hope she ends up With Megan Because Megan seems cool And I want to be her friend No Well a little bit of both A little bit But I think also She's like Wanted So this is about you No This is about you No I'm just kidding No A little bit No not at all Wanted you To find someone Who recognized how amazing you are. And was like, oh, my friend should be with her.
I mean, this is such a fucking good segue. I've kind of walked myself into that.
But yeah, basically. What what is just going to switch gears real quick.
What do y'all fight about the most? Oh, God. I mean, presently Zoom calls like one is on one and the other one is making noise.
This is a huge, big issue in this household. It's a big issue.
It's just, I couldn't be more hypocritical about the way that I operate on Zoom for myself. And then, like, the way that I operate when Sue's on Zoom.
It's just, I'm, like, death-eyeing her makes one, if I make, if I like literally, meanwhile, I'm like down on the thing. And stuff.
Yeah. Yeah.
I did have a little, I, this is classic. I did have a zoom incident.
I, it's, I am loud off zoom. I don't know why we were in our, um, uh, place in New Yorkork we've just bought a place in new york oh cool

there's nothing really in it yeah you guys will definitely have to come visit yes invited anytime um so it's really empty so it's very echoey already things are loud i feel like you need to tell it but no i mean i just love every time we've we've told this we've shared this story just like a couple times now it's going out to the masses now everyone will know number one podcast in the world. I know.
I've heard. I don't make the rules.
She always loves to, at the start, say it was very echoey. And it's like, yes, that's true because we didn't have furniture, but also it was loud enough.
And I was on a Zoom call that was actually casual. It wasn't like a podcast or a recording.
It was, I was talking to like. It was our accountant.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
And our financial advisor, financial advisor but that's fine well i wasn't going to put a name on it because now if they listen they're going to know well it's going to confirm what they probably thought so we're on the call and out of nowhere i hear i'll be off camera for a second i hear well i can't because the mic's far i hear and i was like oh this bitch just farted. I didn't mean it.
I did not mean it. This bitch just farted.
I'm almost impossible to embarrass. I actually was like a little embarrassed.
I texted her. That was not intended.
I was like, I texted her. I was like, they just heard you fart.
Oh my God. We all just heard you fart.
Well, it actually probably sounds like Sue farted. And she she's like uh excuse me but you don't want to stop and say actually that was megan yeah actually you know what abby i never thought that they thought it was me so i feel like that's kind of hitting me hard right now i feel like they knew it wasn't you it didn't sound it was further away i was i.
I was in the hall. It was really funny.
Anyway, so we fight about the Zoom stuff. That was really funny.
And how do you all fight? Yeah. Like who's more controlling in your relationship? I feel like we communicate pretty well.
Yeah. So we're not ever like yelling.
Yeah, like fighting. I'm definitely not a big fighter like that.
fighter. Megan's not.
I don't like to do that. I actually will say to her sometimes I'm like, you remind me of when.
Okay. So in sports, referees are a big pain in the ass.
Right. So sometimes you'll like, look at them and be like, what the hell was that? And the referees that go, you're right, my bad.
You can't argue. They just like nip you and they like neuter you almost.
And you're just like, and you want to have this because a lot of referees will be like, I didn't see it that way. And then you have, that's your chance to be like, well, you didn't just see that girl hit the other, you know, you didn't see this, you didn't see that.
And then when they argue back with you, it's like this back and forth. But when a referee says, you're right, it just ends it.
And sometimes I'll be like, you're acting like that referee right now because, but this is a compliment actually. What Megan is really good at is like, she hears you.
She's like understanding and processing your, for lack of a better complaint. And she goes, okay, yeah, I see that.
You're right. But then when you're kind of upset about something, it just kind of like, right.
The thing is like, I'm not doing this as a way of manipulation. Like, but at first I didn't realize that I had to get to a place.
I'm actually just apologizing. It was just passive aggressive, right? Yes.
And I was like, argue with me, please. And I'm like, I actually, what you just said really hit the nail on the head.
And that's not cool of me. And I was like, argue with me, please.
And I'm like, I actually, what you just said, really hit the nail on the head. And that's not cool of me.
And I am apologizing. The problem is that some of these things are like character traits where I would love to say that I'm going to remember about the light bulbs.
I'm probably not ever in my life going to remember all the time about the light bulbs. I'm like a psycho like shutting the lights off.
Like when we leave the house, I just think, isn't that like kind of common? You also, I mean, to steal something from your guys's podcast with the, with the ticker, I think Amanda was talking about it of like the daily tasks and like Sue also lives in 3022 for everything. And like, I would love to say that my-

It's called efficiency.

Super efficient, super smart, like way ahead on things.

Like she's already, it's already shown up at the door.

And I'm like, wow, we should probably think

about getting paper towels.

And she's like, I have it on subscription

like to the exact amount that we need.

No, you're not psycho at all.

It's actually amazing. But you carry a lot of the like the household daily ticker tasks.
And so, of course, that gets old. I think you like doing it, but also like it gets old.
Well, you want your partner to like. Yeah.
And so then when I say sorry about stuff, knowing, you know, we both kind of know full well at this point, like, is it going to change a lot? I don't know. So then it feels sorry about I'm saying sorry and then not changing my behavior.
So that's what we talk about. I think that's something that we fight about probably with both of us.
Like the theme of that. Yeah.
Because I feel like we're both very self-aware. We're both like, you know, looking in, we're, we're both understanding.
We both have that, but then it's like, sometimes I just feel like you have to accept shit about your partner because it's not changing. They are who they are.
And I, it's like, we can always be better, but you're not going to change the core of who your partner is. I've, I very much believe that.
And when we spend so much time together, I was in a pandemic, like, you know, the same themes keep coming up and up and up. And I feel like the more we can just accept that some of these things, your partner is going to drive you nuts about all the time.
And I have found that some things that I've let go of, it's just better for me because like, ultimately it's not going to change. So I'm either mad about it all the time, or I'm just like, that's her.
And that's okay. that's okay I mean Megan since you've known Abby for so long I want you to know that I spent the first four years of our relationship trying to quiet her down like I thought maybe I could just if we keep talking about it I could just this is the volume lower her volume like that going to fucking happen.
No, my responsibility is just to go dead inside. Just to listen.
Right. Just dead inside.
That's my job as a lover is to slowly die to that wish.

And like for you i'm never gonna put things back in the right place i'm never it i think we've gotten to a place where we're starting to accept that yeah because what megan's saying if i say to you i'm sorry that implies that i'm gonna do it differently and i'm never ever gonna differently. Ever.
That's right. That's the thing.
Ever. No.
Like it's just not going. Now we can become better at things, more aware.
We can do this, we can do that. But like the volume of Abby's voice is the volume of Abby's voice.
Right. That's like a natural, that's like asking, you know, her to change who she is on the inside.
It's just like not going to happen.

No, and it doesn't go well, Megan.

Although, I will say. When I try, it doesn't go well.

I will say, I do think that I have gotten less loud.

Really?

Do you?

Do you think that?

Do you think someone tell you that or are you just?

Is that your opinion?

Who told you that?

Because they lied.

Yeah.

Who told you that?

Right.

So interesting. I love what Sue said.
She said she said you know i want a partner that partners i love that it's so good but she does i mean i'm sure same it's like you do yeah it's just there's these certain areas that are more like my wheelhouse and i want her to participate in what i'm good at to like help but then to her point you, you have to realize that's not their thing. They're not going to think of these things.
Yeah. This has been like the ongoing.
The ticker is fascinating. That thing has changed my life.
Like now I have to actually like write it down, like ticker. So she'll walk into the room.
She's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm tickering right now. And it's just like, I'm literally sitting there by myself thinking of all the things that needs to get done.
Yeah. It's awesome.
Yeah. You guys gave me a real word about that.
I had a look in the mirror about that because I think it was Amanda who said like when her husband comes in and he's like, how can I help that further proves you have no idea what is going on in our life. And I would ask Sue, how can I help like an idiot?

And I got it. I was like, oh my God, I'm doing this like awful thing that just,

then I say, oh, how can I help? Which further proves how much I'm totally out of the loop.

So I was like, you know what? Figure it out. Figure out a way that I can help.
Figure it out, Megan. I don't know.
That's awesome. So thank you guys for that.
As a small business owner, I totally get it. You're always on the clock and your business is always top of mind.
So when it comes to hiring, you need a partner who's just as committed as you are. That's where LinkedIn job steps in.
When you're winding down, LinkedIn keeps working to help you find the right candidate. I've used LinkedIn jobs in the past.
And let me tell you, it makes the hiring process so much easier. When I'm posting a job for free or promoting it to reach more candidates, LinkedIn helps me get my job in front of the right people.
The best part? They give you the deep insights into candidates so you're not just getting random applications, but qualified ones. It's so easy to post a job, share it with my network, and even add a hashtag hiring frame to my profile picture to get even more traction.
And when I used LinkedIn jobs, I felt confident that I was getting the best candidates. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash hard things.
That's linkedin.com slash hard things to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
It is spring. That means that time away vacation or breaks or travel solo or with the fam is upon us.
Quince has the perfect travel situations. And if you want, perfect for home too.
Here's the thing about travel. I don't want to wear hard pants really ever, but especially during travel.
I want to wear soft pants. I need clothing that is breathable.
honestly that barely even touches my skin. I want to feel like I'm wearing pajamas, but look like I'm wearing an outfit.
I'm here to tell you that Quince has answered my ask. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince.
Go to quince.com slash hard things for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash hard things to get free shipping and 365 day returns.
quince.com slash hard things. I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference.
That's why I think Alma is so cool. Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience.
You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else. And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard.
You know, I love that. That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice

or following social media.

It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you

make progress.

Better with people, better with Alma.

Visit helloalma.com slash hard things to get started and schedule a free consultation

today.

That's helloalma.com slash hard things. We talk a lot on this podcast about boundaries.
Have you all had to, during this weird time, established any challenging boundaries with each other or with anybody else in the world that you can think of? Like family of origin stuff, the world, you guys have to deal with the world often and its feelings or each other. I actually can't think of anything.
The only thing literally just happened yesterday. There's like sometimes where, cause we're always like gaming things out together, right? Whether it's like saving the world or what's going on, you know, in each of our teams or what's going on with our families.
Like there's always like, we're gaming, we're talking, we're gaming things out. And I think one boundary we're starting to realize we need to set is we can't, okay.
So as somebody, as one of us is explaining something that's frustrating that's happening the other one in their attempt to be supportive can actually whip the other one up so some it's like and because we no it's not always it's not just you mostly but it's like so let's say you know because i get fired up on your behalf yes but vice versa and it's, so one of us is like, can you believe this, this and that is happening? And I'm already, you know, I'm already whipped up and she'll like, come in and whip me up even more. And it just happened yesterday where I was like, okay, this is actually not helpful now.
Like I'm too whipped up. And I think I can do it for, I do it to you as well.
And so it's like, that's like one thing I think we're starting to realize. I like to be whipped up.

Yes.

Whipped is my favorite.

I want to whip up for like five hours in a row.

Meanwhile, we get to the five hours, we haven't accomplished anything.

That's right.

So I feel like you're trying to, yeah.

That's like, yeah.

Sometimes you just need the person to, yes, like be there and like listen and be supportive

and or show you another side that you're not seeing, whatever the case is. But yeah.
Okay. Maybe it is a me thing for me.

Then I can't get, I'm already whipped.

That is such a huge situation. My sister and I, I mean,

I can get on the phone with her and say, I don't like, I don't know that.

That person looked at me weird in 20 minutes. We're both homicidal.

We're both plotting the death of that person and how we can get away with it and remove the body. But I will tell you that I believe there's an appropriate level of whippedness that everyone needs to get to.
Because I also don't like, I think our dynamic is I'm whipped and then you try to unwhip me. Yeah.
Yeah. Telling me everything's okay.
That's frustrating too. You know, when you're whipped up about something and somebody's like, well, I mean, let's look at it from their perspective.
And you're like, okay, no. Yeah.
Yeah. So what's the right level? What's helpful? Like not.
Yeah. By the way, this is all very like situation dependent, topic dependent.
Sometimes you do want to be, you want somebody to be like right there whipped up with you. But I think for me, it's a scenario where it's like my, one of my work environments.
And I was finding that it like wasn't helping me to like go from, I was like zero to 50 and she sent me to a hundred. And that was like, this is my work environment.
I can't be at a hundred. That was kind of sort of what was happening.
So I think that it's like a good, somebody to meet your whippedness, but maybe not exceed, but not bring you down either. To your point, it is frustrating for someone to try to like calm you when you're not ready to be calmed.
And that's actually what I do. Sometimes to she'll be talking about something and i immediately jump into solutions and then i realize what happened i'm like yep not yet i get it that was too soon too soon it looks like i'm ready for a solution i'm in the middle of my bullshit yeah too soon on the solution yeah well yeah and you are very solution oriented and i'm more like not emotional because you are emotional but i'm more like get in the mix and like you're an organizer and i'm like a fuck shit up in front of the microphone sort of thing and like we have to which we both get so much from each other and but it's like a balance of where those are the boundaries where we need to sort of and that's the thing so good thing.
So good. It's so beautiful.
When Glennon comes to me,

she's coming to me with real problems that are like life and death for

people,

you know?

And so I'm,

I,

I don't want to like live in that space 24 hours a day.

And so sometimes she'll just be like,

can you please just not bright side this?

Like,

this is not a bright sideable moment.

This is horrible. Like, this is bad.
Like, let's just sit and feel bad for a little bit and when that is kind of the consistent conversation i'm like fuck i'm i'm sad now yeah now i'm actually sad like being sad yeah yeah that's true because i can like get to the thing and then then get to what we're going to do and then be done because that's what my work requires of me.

Yeah.

And you're like, oh, but for the rest of the day.

For the rest of the day.

I'm like, but is the world ending?

I think that you just told me it is.

And now I'm supposed to deal with that.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Okay.

I want to ask you guys some quick questions, like just a little rapid fire type thing, but it doesn't have to be rapid because I've never actually. We'll do our best, but sometimes we get more winded.
It's not, I've never done a rapid thing in my damn life. So.
I try to do rapid and I'm like, well, I need to give context. Yeah.
Don't worry about your rapidity. Okay.
Which one of you is the more jealous one? And do you ever get jealous? I am not generally a jealous person. I don't get like too whipped up about that, but also it hasn't really happened with you.
And I feel like I could be. Yeah.
She's not. I'm not.
She's not. I think it's more me because she's literally not.
Do you feel like you're jealous? I don't feel like you're. I'm more jealous.
I don't know that I'm like a super jealous person. I'm more jealous.
I'm more jealous contextually than you or conceptually than you. I feel like we're both jealous.
Do you? No. You're definitely more jealous than me.
And also, if somebody comes into our situation where I get a weird vibe with, I'm like, cut all ties. Yes.

Yeah.

Cut them off.

Cut all ties.

Because I've been, you know, traumatized in my past.

And so when I feel the feeling, I like tell you, I'm like, that person crossed a boundary.

I don't know what it is.

Maybe nothing has happened.

Like literally, they're probably wonderful people. That's always a fun conversation.

I've had it a few times.

I can't ever speak to you again, nor can I explain to you why. Godspeed.
And then sometimes, I feel like it's like, sometimes it's like, I know that people are vibing, like you or, you know, whatever. And sometimes I just like, don't feel threatened.
And I'm like, well, they want to,

you do understand what's happening right now.

Like they like you, but it's fine because I don't feel threatened by it.

But don't ever give me anything you feel threatened by.

That's so interesting.

That's amazing to me.

So is the fact that I feel jealous of certain people

and I haven't been jealous for years, but that's also because we haven't seen any other human beings probably. That's right.
COVID is true. Direct correlation.
Yeah. COVID has made me a more mature person.
But is it because I feel actually threatened? That's so embarrassing. I don't know.
I don't either. I'll think about it.
Okay. What do you guys do for fun? Yeah.
This is a theme for us. We try to figure out what is the thing that you do that isn't related to like your productivity or that you get nothing out of except for enjoyment.
I keep trying to bring up things that we can do for fun together. Like I just brought up the other day, like, I think we should get into pickleball.

Like activities.

She wants me to play a fucking sport.

You'll learn when you get retired,

Megan,

you'll learn that like,

you're like, I don't know what I'm going to do.

What,

what am I going to do to work out and have fun?

Cause you got to do it at the same time.

Well,

we do just cause we have children and that takes up all of our day.

I mean, I know.

Listen, okay. You go first and then I'll give mine.
I think what we do together really well is understand that we need other people. So like we have a great friend group that will make sure we get dinners in with or like plan a weekend and go like hang out at their house.
We've done vacations. And I think the dinners part is a big part of our life, like finding a cool new restaurant or one that has been around forever that we've never been to, kind of checking those boxes.
Those to me are like our outlets and things to do. I try to get her to do, I'm like, I love board games and I've tried to get her into like backgammon or something like that.
She just, this is also, even when I was teaching you Dom, I was like, I love board games. And I've tried to get her into like backgammon or something like that.
She just, this is also. Even when I was teaching you dominoes the other day, you were just like, not, I was like, wait, did you, I'm like, did you like it? Yeah.
Yeah, I did. I was like, did you? I don't know.
Did I? I don't know. Also, I think that there is something about my insecurity.
Like you are so smart. And especially when we start playing games, Sue has the ability to hold 25 different fully gamed out situations in her head at one time.
And every single day I leave for my workout, I forget something. Like I just can't hold it all in my head.
I don't know. It's somewhere, but like, so I think there's a little bit of that.
So you're like, and you grew up playing games. I didn't really like grow up playing games and stuff.
I think that I just, the only thing I enjoy doing really outside of now I say that like outside of my sport, which is a lot. And outside of like what I consider my work, which is the, you know, activism and however we want to say it.
I don't even know if activist is the right word. I just only really care about going to dinner with friends and like having fun and seeing other people and like, you know, just that like community and whatever and having conversation like is, is talking like a hobby.
Yes. We love, we love it.
We love to like play out scenarios or do debates or talk about issues. I mean, we, especially with our closest friends, like we flush a lot out of like, what's our stance? How do we talk about it? What does this mean? Blah, blah, blah.
And of course I love shopping. We can't really do a lot of that now, but I, it's like, I think that fashion and everything is like a form of self-expression for me.
And now like for you and yeah. And it's like outside of that, like I'm not hiking, I'm not doing other sports.
I'm not doing other physical activities. I don't, I've started to get into cooking a little bit.
We'll see how long that lasts, but like, I'm also tired. Like our lives are busy and we have a lot and I just want to go to dinner and eat great food and like, but do you have good wine? Do you remember early, like very early in our relationship? Um, I had already, no, maybe that's not when that happened, but it was early in the relationship within maybe a year.
And we were like trying to plan a vacation and you said it first, but I was thinking it and it was kind of like, well, we're going to invite other people. Right.
And I think it's like, but like, that's, we were together, like actually in the early part of our relationship, we were together a lot, but then it was like, yeah, we like other people coming into our space or us going into theirs and like doing all the things we just said. That's magical to me.
So do you all like the same sorts of people? Like, is making friends hard for you? Are most of your friends queer couples? Do you ever have a couple where you're like, I don't like her, but you, the other one does how is that? It feels like it's so easy for you the way you're talking about it. You have, I have, yeah, I'm not as good as like keeping touch.
I feel like I have a lot of friends. They're just all over the place.
That's like what sports does. Yeah.
It's really the sad part. And you've done a better job of keeping in touch.
And you have like a core friend in New York. Like not necessarily the ones I grew up with.
There's a couple, but just kind of through the years who you became friends with from New York, where I'm from. And those are like the homies forever.
And they've now adopted Megan. I think they like no yeah which is totally fine but like they are now Megan is like now in this group like they have their own individual friendships and relationships and that's we've been lucky in that way that it's like kind of worked out like that but no we don't have a lot of new friends no no it's kind of like we have such little time as it is making new friends is like hard and a lot and then it's gonna like take away like it's hard to even schedule a dinner with the friends that the existing friends that we have so it's like i think like where do you meet new friends i don't know i don't either i have no idea that to me is the saddest part one of the sadder parts about being an athlete is you grow up with someone or a team or a certain amount of teammates.
You have all these experiences, all these shared experiences, the highs, the lows, like these are like seriously deep relationships. Now you may not know like their names of their siblings, but you're going to know a lot of other things about them.
It's like this weird, unique thing. But at the same time, the ones you do become super close with, life goes on.
You all live where you live. And then they're like, I spoke about Diana.
She lives in Phoenix in California. And outside of the WNBA season, if I see her once a year, I feel lucky.
And I know it's the same for you and a lot of your friends. Like, I'm sure you got, like you guys spent all this time together.
When's the last time you saw each other? Like, it's just,

and that to me is like the saddest part because those relationships would continue to thrive and they just kind of get stunted because you're so far away from each other. What's the most important thing to each of you and a friend and what's a deal breaker? oh there can be absolutely no bullshit no no i don't it's like no games no bullshit no dishonesty no we don't have time for this like i said it's already difficult enough to find time and i feel like we have to deal with bullshit in all other ways it's like i don't want that that friction.
It just feels like a waste of time. Like, why am I spending time with this person? If they're even making me like question anything and sort of that, that trust, like, I feel like our friend group in New York and even friends that I have kind of scattered, there's just this trust that like, if I don't talk to you for three months, it's fine.
We'll just pick up at dinner or like, we're always there to kind of support each other and like have each other's back. It has to be that sort of easy feeling.
Otherwise I would just rather like, not in a mean way. I would just like rather not hang out.
It's totally fine. Like we clearly don't vibe or something, but like, if it's not a hundred, it's kind of not worth it.
Like we'd rather just chill with, you know, with ourselves or like with other friends that we have, the kind of like forced situation. I'm just like, and I don't know if it comes from being in sports so long.
Like I can get along with anyone who put me at any dinner table in the entire world. It's like, fine.
I know the conversation. I can like have conversation, whenever.
But it's like, I've been forced to spend so much time with so many people that I would never choose. Not in a bad way.
They wouldn't choose me either. But I've had so much of that.
I want zero of that. That's right.
Like moving forward. We just did this whole thing about friendship.
And that's the science of friendship is like, it should be a hundred percent or nothing. That we all have this idea that relationships should be suffering, but actually friendships are the ones things we get to choose, right? Like we don't get to choose our freaking family.
Once we get married, we don't really get to choose our partner. That's like done deal, right? That's like, but our friendships are the one thing that we can be like, no, a hundred or zero.
No friction. And I think, you know, you guys are touching on a lot of stuff that I've thought about, especially over the last five, six years of my retirement, having these like friends that you, you go to camp, you're playing on your teams and you have people around all the time.
One thing that I think what will happen when you retire is you're going to get really picky about the people that you spent because you, you all are so busy and having those friendships that you do get like chosen family, you know, a lot of, especially gay women, not that you guys have bad family situations, but I just know that having other queer women in our lives is like really important to feel like you're having that sense of community in some way. And they're just better.
I mean, being gay is the best thing ever for like every reason under the sun. Thank God.
Okay. We kept you for too long already.
This is called We Can Do Hard Things. What's the hardest thing you're dealing with right now before we leave in your life? What's the hardest? I mean, I think for me, I've said I was going to play another year.
It's more than likely my last. So there's the whole retirement, which is really code word for like identity and like, who are you without this? So that's like always just kind of swirling in the back, you know? Cause then I had, like I was saying earlier how some days I show up to the workout, I feel bad.
Some days I feel good. On the good days, I'm like, maybe I just do this literally another couple of years.
And I know that's just me holding on to the identity, not the game itself or any of those things. So I think that's probably the hardest thing I'm dealing with right now.
That's so honest and beautiful. Yeah.
I mean, the, yeah, the aging athlete is, is tough. Cause I can't, you know, my life has never been totally wrapped up in soccer.
I've always felt my identity firmly in other places, which sometimes is like worse. Cause I'm like, do you want to do this? Like, do you want to keep doing it? And a lot of other things are wrapped up in it.
So that's a little bit. And then I think trying to live in a, like trying to create a world that takes me fully into account.
Sure. You guys feel this way.
I think you feel this way being in women's sports, like

every day I'm like, this is insane. Like the world that we live in is completely insane.
It doesn't take our full selves into account and so many other full selves into account. And so how do you, cause it's not like we can just go to another planet and a more, you know, evolved place.
Like this is where we are, but how do I like live outside of that while breaking that down, but like not getting bogged, bogged down by that, like almost like trying to live in the future and setting things up and doing things differently, I think is always like a challenge because I just, it's like, we can't do things the same way that other, whether it's successful, you know, male athletes or successful, you know, media people, whatever, like we can't do it the way that it was done. And it's a really difficult trap to not fall into because it, it like makes you think that you can, you're like, just do this and just do this and just do this and say this and blah, blah, blah.
And then you get to the end where everything and they're like yeah it's still not you're still not in and listen but there's you have to keep doing that Megan and Sue because y'all are trailblazers and trailblazers are always questioning themselves like whether we want to believe that or not trailblazers are like fuck what am I doing Sue and I'm sure a lot of people tell you this. You know, just really take in everything and

enjoy. fuck, what am I doing? Sue, and I'm sure a lot of people tell you this,

you know, just really take in everything and enjoy your last year. And what I will tell you is that my life got so much better when I retired.
It got so much better. The biggest fears that I

had were where I was going to make money, how I was going to make money, and what I was going to

do to get healthcare. And the truth is I've made more money in my retirement much by just like actually giving more time to myself to like create things and do things that I want to do.
And that's the beauty of being a woman athlete. There's plenty of chances to make more when you stop.
I mean, literally, that's actually the wild part. I think that's, what's hard to your head around that like being told.
I think kind of what you're saying is you're not valued as maybe an athlete. Right.
In the moment, like WNBA, we get I mean, this the hate is like crazy. So you're, you feel like lesser than, but then you walk off the court and, you know,

a company wants to sponsor you or somebody wants to hear you speak.

And then you're told you're valued because of, and so it's just like, what? Then you walk off the court and, you know, a company wants to sponsor you or somebody wants to hear you speak.

And then you're told you're valued because of.

And so it's just like, what?

Like, I don't.

That's to me. That's where it's like.
Yeah. Banging my head against the wall.
Yeah. I think that's actually the thing that is the hardest all the time.
and particularly for me since 2019 is like the balance between doing my job,

which is playing soccer, at least it's one of my jobs, but it's kind of like the cornerstone job, even though it's like the one where I get treated the worst, paid the worst, and all the conditions are the worst. Everything else kind of is, you know, not relying on it, but, you know, sort of predicated, whatever.
And so what's the balance between like doing my job and then like securing my financial future? Because especially being older, you know, post 2019, like I'm not an idiot and I'm not gonna like be like, no, I'm going to focus a hundred percent on soccer so I can be the best player that I can be and like totally forego my financial security in the future, nor should I have to. But every minute that you go this way, it takes away from soccer.
And then just constantly feeling like you're at odds with yourself and with your career and all of that and how difficult it is to actually just be a women's professional player in any sort of league with coupling that with this weird, you know, world that's exploded for us kind of off the field. So it's just, it's constantly trying not to hate everyone all the time.
I hate to say this and it's probably going to get like you know clipped by washington examiner but sometimes i'm just like i hate everyone for everything that you do to all of us it's so frustrating it's so frustrating it's so fucking infuriating because here's the thing yeah like you don y'all should, y'all should be able to at this age, at this time in your life, be able to walk away completely fine and financially set for life.

But like we're women athletes.

So it's like constantly fighting that battle.

No, totally.

And like fighting the powers that be to break things down. But I would really love to just, quite frankly, never deal with U.S.
soccer ever again. That would be my, that would be my goal.
That's going to be the clip. I know that's going to be the clip.
And honestly, I've say that right to the board because it's just, they're just, have they given us a platform? Yes. Like, have we been one of the best supported teams in the world? Better awful doesn't mean good but okay yes like i understand that there is good with it but like to feel like in so many other parts of my life i'm like moving on and being more you know open-minded and progressive and working with people that are not just like-minded in the sense of like a feedback loop, but actually view me the way that I view myself.
And I want myself to be viewed as a whole human. And I view them that way.
And like, we view each other that way. And then sometimes we get stuck back in these old antiquated ways that just, yeah, go ahead.
I like love to use, whether it's like movie quotes or like things you saw somewhere and like bring it all back around. And I don't know why this ever stuck in my head, but I feel like I say it pretty often.
It's from the movie Selena. And it's when her dad is like, we have to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and more American than the Americans.
And I feel like that is the life of a female athlete. You have to be like, whatever it is, you're supposed to be over here.
You have to be that times a thousand and whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, that times a thousand. And you're just stuck in these places.
And it's actually different for every athlete because everyone kind of has their own lane, for lack of a better, that it might show up in. But yeah, it's like Selena's dad said.
That's how I feel all the time. I don't know if we're going to name this podcast, I hate everybody.
It's like Selena's dad said, because both I love.

Yeah, it's good.

Well, maybe we'll title it. It's like Selena's dad said.
I hate everybody. Right? But it's just constantly that.
This is all such big stuff.

And what you're talking about having evolved past an institution that you have to stay in i have a friend who talks about a zen koan which is like there's a goose that's growing inside of a glass bottle right how do you get the goose outside of the bottle without hurting the goose or shattering the bottle. And I see you, Megan, trying to do that so beautifully where you have this bottle that is so fucked up and so small, but is the only container for these younger women coming up.
So, you know, you can't say burn it all down, even though that's what you do want to say, because then you have to come back 20 times and say, I didn't mean burn it down. I meant like put a fire on a little.
It's totally. And it's like really what I want to do being the goose inside the bottle.
I'm just, I'll break the bottle. It's fine.
I don't care if I cut my foot on the way out. That's totally fine.
But then don't look at me and be like, oh, my God, did you break the bottle? That's very destructive. Right.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'm sorry I couldn't fit the lower half of my body through that tiny opening at the top. It's like people want to acknowledge for female athletes now or women who play female sports, we know it's not what it needs to be, but also like, don't talk about that too much and don't push too much.
And also we'll be the ones that'll continue to, you know, set the benchmarks or make the rules or whatever, when actually we do have all the answers. I firmly believe that.
I feel me and Jessica Clarendon, the woman that I work with full-time now, Leija Clarendon is her wife's place in WMA. So obviously, you know, we have like this whole, you know, fuck it up brain trust going on.
At least we try to. We always talk about living in the future and like just telling people like, it's going to be okay.
You guys aren't going to die. Come with us.
It's like, everything is going to be okay. But we do kind of know how to live in the future.
And like, I feel like if you gave us the keys, I'm sure you guys feel this way, like to whatever institution, whether it's sports or media, this, like I could do a good job. I just know that.
And, but it's like, how many other people think that, you know, is it just us thinking that and, you know, having to try to convince everyone else, like we know what's going on, but yeah. Well, if we want to know how to do it, we can watch the WNBA.
I mean, that is true. The t-shirt the goose has on in the glass bottle of the WNBA will lead the way.
Right? We adore both of you.

Megan, I've adored you forever,

but Sue, I just knew you'd be as wonderful as you are.

And thank you, Sue, for your intense gentleness.

I have noticed that every time you start to say something

that is a sports metaphor,

you start it with, in sports.

And I know you're talking to me

and trying to help me through. And I notice i see you and i thank you thank you i love your take on sports yeah we love it i actually feel twitter feed i feel closer to you in the way that i feel about sports than anything else that i've ever read or whatever i'm just all i always say this the sports i'm like go sports It's like, like and it's just a wild it is a wild and i'm like uh this is so weird go sports so anytime you chime in it's just the best the best i'm like what she said yeah so good it's a beautiful thing to come to the sports with beginners well we're lucky i mean yeah y'all are just you're all our icons, not just sports icons, but really feminists and women in the world that are doing world changing things.
And I can't wait for y'all to retire. The world actually kind of needs you on the side of the.
New friends. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm excited for it too.
I'm excited to see what happens when they're out of the bottle.

We love you.

Go do all the things.

Try to be quiet when each other is on Zoom meetings.

Megan, stop being such a hypocrite.

It's so true.

So share your feelings.

And to the rest of you.

Aw, they're so cute.

They are so cute.

I'm so glad you have each other.

All right, when things get hard this week,

don't forget,

we can do hard things. That's right.
We'll see you back next week. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.
First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.
This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.
We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.
Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman,

and the show is produced by Lauren LaGrasso,

Alison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.