How to Stay Soft AND Strong: Our Virtual Event

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Speaker 2 Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. This episode is different and new and cool.

Speaker 2 So this episode that we're about to give to you is actually from our book launch day live live event in new york city which feels like 700 years ago but also yesterday so it's been two months since we can do hard things the book has been released into the world and it is out there living its best life it has spent every week since then on the new york times and indie bestseller lists we're so grateful to you and it's a book we're proud of because it feels like a moment in which

Speaker 2 We can all admit that self-help has failed us and it is time for collective wisdom, which is what this book is.

Speaker 2 It's just the best advice and wisdom from the wisest, smartest life travelers we know and the gems that they have found along the way that is really lighting all of our paths.

Speaker 2 We're so grateful that you are out there reading and enjoying. And what do you think, babe?

Speaker 3 Two things. First of all, I cannot believe how proud I feel to see all three of our names on the cover.
I just want to say it. It's like something that really tickles me.
Tickles.

Speaker 3 And secondly, I don't know, like you just never know how people are going to interact with it.

Speaker 3 So the fact that they're drawing in it, they're sending pictures to their friends of like their favorite parts and passages and chapters, their meetings about it. They're like over the moon.

Speaker 3 I mean, when we see people after the shows, it's just been an incredible community builder and incredibly rewarding.

Speaker 3 I mean, we spent a lot of time on this book, but I didn't know it would be this worth it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I love that it's just, you know, you said all the wisdom from the smartest people we know.

Speaker 2 And this event that we recorded was with questions from the smartest people we know, which is the pod squad. So

Speaker 2 it was awesome for you to send in your questions. And there were some real stumpers and humdingers.
There were some humdingers.

Speaker 2 I think we should call this episode the stumpers and the humdingers because that's what you are, pod squad. And it was fun and beautiful.

Speaker 2 And this was the virtual event that we did for folks who couldn't come out for some of the cities. And it was just a joy.
It felt like a homecoming after doing like all that media that day.

Speaker 2 And then come home and be like, now we're with family. Yes.
We can relax. On a couch.
We were on a couch. It was like,

Speaker 2 we are where we belong with our pod squad on our couch. This is what it is.
So go get on your couch, get your people. Listen up.
We love you, pod squad.

Speaker 2 And eventually, we'll release the video for this, and you will be horrified and really gob smacked, humdingers, and

Speaker 2 gob smackers because I inadvertently wore an outfit that was the exact same color as the couch. So I look a little naked.
So, we got that going for us. You are camouflaged.

Speaker 2 Okay, humdingers, gob smackers, tickled. I don't know what's going on.
Just listen. Love you.
Bye.

Speaker 2 five four

Speaker 2 three

Speaker 2 two

Speaker 2 one blast off are we live

Speaker 2 it's happening it's happening are the people here i don't we don't never know

Speaker 2 i think they are because of the interwebs and the cloud okay welcome them honey okay welcome to we can do hard things a virtual event I believe that the people watching are the most my people because these are the people who are like, I would like to see you, but not if I have to leave my house.

Speaker 2 Yes, right? That's right. Okay.
So what's happening right now is that we are in New York City. Yeah, we are.
Today is the day that our new book, We Can Do Hard Things, is launched out into the world.

Speaker 2 Yes, it's really...

Speaker 2 Special and beautiful.

Speaker 2 And first of all, thank you so much for wanting to be here with us. Thank you so much for doing life with us, for listening to the pod, for caring about the work we do.

Speaker 2 I kind of feel like we're all doing this work together. It just has felt like a big

Speaker 2 collective conversation that we've been having, not just with each other, but with you. And we're just deeply, deeply grateful.
I'm feeling that today. I'm feeling so much gratitude.

Speaker 2 Honestly, that anybody is still listening. to anything that I'm saying.
So it's pretty exhausting. No, it's not.
It's fun. Okay.
It's really fun to listen to you.

Speaker 3 And I get the privilege and honor to be around you too the most.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I mean, we've been doing some press for this book announcement and we're on the book tour. Being able to work with you both and listening to you every single day, I'm like, I pinch myself.

Speaker 3 I literally cannot believe that I get to do this with you both. You're the smartest, bravest, wisest.
And honestly, like, this doesn't even feel like work in any way.

Speaker 2 I'm just like, so you are also very pretty.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you very much, babe. I think that you're pretty too.

Speaker 2 All right. Yeah.
Well, I hope you've enjoyed our programming.

Speaker 2 Before we get started,

Speaker 2 there's a lot of people in this room

Speaker 2 that have made this day and all of our work possible. I mean, so many people from Dial Press are here

Speaker 2 and they have been our team, our partners in putting this book and all of our books out into the world, led by Whitney Frick, who

Speaker 2 basically just kind of picked me up off the street 20 years ago and was like, Maybe you could be something. And

Speaker 2 can you write down some words? And then we just have been together since then. And I'm so deeply grateful for her.
Like, I don't think much of this happens without her.

Speaker 2 And then Valerie and Allison are in here, who really have just been in it with us, Allison, since we were born, I think, in Valerie for the last couple of years.

Speaker 2 And I'm just feeling how much it takes to do something like this. So many people work so hard and I'm just grateful for everyone in this.

Speaker 3 And we can't forget Audrey and Annie.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Who are also really big Bill

Speaker 2 producer for Lowe's of Manhattan? Oh my god, Lauren's not here, but yeah, it's a big we and we can do hard things. That's for sure.
Debbie's here. It's just Sarah, Michelle.

Speaker 2 It's just, it's a big, big, joyful family right now. I'm very thankful.
So what we're going to do is we're going to jump in. We've been collecting questions from everybody who's here tonight.

Speaker 2 And so we're going to jump in and just.

Speaker 2 Read your questions, talk about them. This whole book is just a bunch of spiraling questions.

Speaker 2 What we have learned is that life feels really complicated and chaotic, but actually all of our problems just boil down into like 20 categories of things.

Speaker 2 And we are all spiraling around the same questions, which is why when we share them with each other, it makes all of us feel less alone because we realize that we actually don't have problems, we just have a life.

Speaker 2 So we're going to do that. Okay.

Speaker 3 I think that we should hear from the people because they've written us amazing questions. We haven't seen them.

Speaker 2 We know they're amazing. We haven't seen them.
Well, I know you guys good. I know they're amazing.
We're being embodied.

Speaker 2 We have not seen these questions so that we couldn't overprepare. So we'll see how that goes.

Speaker 2 Be yourself, they said. We'll see.
Here's an easy one we'll start with.

Speaker 2 Ready?

Speaker 2 How do you build trust again once it's been lost? How do you forgive someone who has betrayed you? Oh, no. What?

Speaker 2 I guess you're looking at me. I'm the obvious go-to for, oh, no, both of us.
No, all of us. All of us.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I can't wait for all the different perspectives. Okay.
Have you forgiven people who've betrayed you? I think maybe that's where we start. Is it forget? How do you restore trust after,

Speaker 2 after it's been lost? It's been lost. I mean, I think for me,

Speaker 2 I'm taking that question in a different way. Okay.
I don't know about how to restore trust

Speaker 2 between

Speaker 2 people after it's been lost.

Speaker 2 For me, the greatest when I

Speaker 2 have felt betrayal, the greatest loss of trust that I have felt is trust with myself. Same.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 2 Oh, damn. Sorry.
I'm glad I answered first then. That means it's true.
It's true all the way through. Yeah, because you're wondering, how did I get myself here? How did I never see this coming?

Speaker 2 How can I ever trust the next relationship, the next job decision, the next whatever, if I can't trust myself

Speaker 2 to not land here again. So I don't know anything about restoring trust with people with whom you've lost it.
So Godspeed, if that's your question, but I'm not answering that one.

Speaker 2 I think you have to really

Speaker 2 get right with yourself and trust that when you are in a bad situation, you'll get yourself the hell out at the first

Speaker 2 instance.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because there was a moment.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we all knew. We all knew.
There was, and you look back and you're like, who could have seen it coming? And you're like, everyone who was looking for it.

Speaker 2 So, but, but that's not to like. berate you over it.
It to have compassion towards you and to be like, okay, little baby, this is how we got here. And it might happen again.

Speaker 2 yeah and the trust is that you will take care of yourself and you will be with yourself at every step whether it's leaving or staying or being there for yourself if and when it happens again yeah you'll never leave you yeah i just realized when you're talking that i think i have a completely different idea about this now than i've ever had oh yeah and i think it's real i don't know if it's right or a good idea for anyone.

Speaker 2 Well, let's hear it. Let's hear if it's wrong.
Because you know how obsessed I've been with this forgiveness idea, like gender and forgiveness. I don't understand either one.

Speaker 2 I ask everyone what the hell does it mean. I come from Christianity where it was like a forced thing, like you have to forgive or your body.
Oh, gender and exactly.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, but what is it? So, okay, I just realized I am no longer trying to forgive anyone ever again. That is not, I don't think that doesn't even make sense to me anymore.

Speaker 2 What I'm doing is asking my body, do we forgive that person?

Speaker 2 My body will always tell me. My body is like, hell no.

Speaker 2 My body is like

Speaker 2 around certain people, certain situations. And sometimes my body's like,

Speaker 2 and I'm like, I guess we have, but I'm not like asking my mind anymore. My body knows when I'm not safe.

Speaker 2 Like, I remember with my ex, like the moment that I felt true softness or warmth was the moment we signed our divorce papers.

Speaker 2 And that is because my body was like, you know, we're not safe and you are still showing up for this thing. So go ahead and restore the boundary for yourself and then you'll be safe.
Right. Right.

Speaker 2 So I don't know. I don't think it's an idea I'm trying to reach for anymore.
It's a embodiment I'm checking in for or not. And if my body feels clenchy or not trust, then I will trust it to know.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I'm in Amanda's camp. So I don't have to go too deep into it because it's very similar.
But anytime that I feel like

Speaker 3 there was somebody who would require my forgiveness, I'm in a place in my life where

Speaker 3 getting responsible for my part in whatever happened, whatever transgression that I felt wronged about, I have some responsibility down the path.

Speaker 3 There is oftentimes a moment where I might have not said something,

Speaker 3 where I might not have been brave enough to come forward with my feelings, where I might have not

Speaker 3 done the thing, the integral thing that would have

Speaker 3 created a different circumstance, a different outcome.

Speaker 3 And that's on me. A lot of the stuff that I think a lot about now in my sobriety is

Speaker 3 decisions that I made while drinking.

Speaker 3 Things that I didn't say, feelings that I was having that I didn't express

Speaker 3 cultivated certain things to happen

Speaker 3 and created certain ways in a relationship that were super unhealthy and i think at the end of the day i need to figure out how to and i think i have at this point to forgive myself

Speaker 3 because so much of what that was was informed by parts that were just surviving, that were learning how to survive and just surviving in the environments. And I didn't have the language.

Speaker 3 I didn't know. I didn't have the therapy to be able to say the thing in the moment.
Yeah. That just happened four months ago where I said the thing in the moment for the first time.

Speaker 3 And it was like truly the first time to you. Yeah.
First time I ever had my own back.

Speaker 3 Like truly.

Speaker 3 And so, yeah, I think forgiveness at the end of it, if you go deep enough and you go long enough and you stick with it, it's about the forgiveness of yourself, maybe for not being there and having your own back in the first moment.

Speaker 2 Well, there's a whole chapter about forgiveness in the book. And I love that the icon we chose for it is this beautiful picture of a woman who's just walking forward.

Speaker 2 Because it's really, at the end of the day, forgiveness is directional.

Speaker 2 It's a decision to not, in your mind and life, be reaching backwards to something old, some person, some situation. And it's just a freedom of like onward.
It's directional.

Speaker 2 it is directional one more thing on that because i feel like forgiveness for me was the hardest in my first marriage because it went from my husband being my whole world to utterly disappearing overnight i mean like literally

Speaker 2 so i didn't have anything left the only thing left was like utter apathy and

Speaker 2 that was the worst part. And so like the only source of connection that I had, if I couldn't have passionate love, was like passionate disdain, right?

Speaker 2 And so, like, you're trying to keep any connection because a lack of connection is the most painful thing you can have to metabolize.

Speaker 2 And so, I often think if you're struggling with forgiveness, is it possible that what you are struggling with is really accepting and grieving

Speaker 2 nothingness

Speaker 2 where something used to be? Because holding on to unforgiveness doesn't actually help you in any way. It eats up your energy and corrodes you from the inside.
And so if you can accept what is,

Speaker 2 sometimes the forgiveness comes, but you have to accept that there is nothingness there.

Speaker 3 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 I got to talk to my therapist.

Speaker 2 I know. Write it down, babe.
We're going to take it to our next session.

Speaker 2 The origins of We Can Do Hard Things were once just a dream of community and connection and expression. That dream turned into the podcast you are listening to today.

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Speaker 2 Okay, how do we parent, protect, and prepare our children for a future that will be vastly different from ours on a social tone

Speaker 2 on a social, technological, and environmental level? How do we raise the next generation to actually care and take care of each other?

Speaker 2 We show them how to be humans.

Speaker 2 I think we have to, as hard as it is, and if it's the only thing we do, is just to stay human. Jessica Kanderitz,

Speaker 2 who is a friend of ours and a poet, she wrote something last week. And one of the lines of her poem was, it takes

Speaker 2 a spine of steel to hold all that softness.

Speaker 2 And yes to that line. Yes.
And I think

Speaker 2 she's so good. I think that's, we need spines of steel to stay soft.
Like we really need to be able to say,

Speaker 2 I will look that suffering in the eye. I will not turn away.
I will do, because if we do that, we know what to do next.

Speaker 2 It's not rocket science. We know how to handle this.
The problem is we won't look at it because it's so painful. And so when we don't look at it, bad things happen.

Speaker 2 When we look at it and when we stay soft, the rest takes care of itself. We know what to do.
And so I think we have have to just teach our kids to be soft as steel. No, soft as steel.

Speaker 3 That's so good. Yep.

Speaker 2 Anything to add? Nope.

Speaker 3 That's

Speaker 3 nice. That's something to live into because I nailed it.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Oh, this is a long one, but I'm going for it. My name is Carrie.
Hi, Carrie. I'm a well-intentioned stepmom.

Speaker 2 Oh, a well-intentioned stomach. I already know she's a good stepmom because she didn't say I'm a great stepmom.
She said I'm a well-intentioned stepmom. Oh, it gets better, though.
Okay.

Speaker 2 And that feels like a hard thing. It is.

Speaker 2 I'm part of the gayest family. It's me and my wife, who's the bio-mom of our two kids.
And we co-parent with my wife's ex-wife and her new wife, a bunch of lesbians.

Speaker 2 And I genuinely do feel really lucky because we all get along and manage pretty well. I love my wife and our kids, but it is so hard balancing a romantic relationship while being new to parenting.

Speaker 2 and feeling insecure in my sense of belonging in my own family.

Speaker 2 Wow. I joke that it feels like being added to a group project halfway through the school year.

Speaker 2 But honestly, really at times, being a stepmom can feel like its own really specific flavor of heartbreak.

Speaker 2 Oh, Carrie, I wish your kids could see that question. Go.

Speaker 2 Go.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I feel that.

Speaker 3 And it's.

Speaker 3 You know, under the circumstances, I feel like you prepped our kids to absolutely be lovely and accept me and love me in a way.

Speaker 2 Like they were polite and beautiful, like they weren't like flicking you off. Yeah, they do that now.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 So, like, when I walked in the door,

Speaker 3 they were lovely,

Speaker 3 welcoming.

Speaker 2 Tish was a little bit tough, a little lukewarm.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I think that as time has gone on,

Speaker 3 I have earned their respect and I've earned their love and I have shown up and

Speaker 3 it's been absolutely by far the most rewarding and beautiful thing in the whole wide world.

Speaker 3 And yes, marriage is difficult with children, navigating relationship with a spouse and then your child is having a total meltdown.

Speaker 2 It's hard business.

Speaker 3 And step parenting

Speaker 3 has, I think,

Speaker 3 another layer of difficult

Speaker 3 because you're always wondering, do they think that I'm actually their parent? You're always wondering, do they love me like they love Glennon? I'll speak for myself.

Speaker 3 We all have different strengths, like you, me, and Craig, like as parents, we all have different strengths and weaknesses.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I do sometimes wonder, like, am I a parent to them? Or am I just like

Speaker 3 a person who's come in halfway through their school project? And this is just like what they get. This is like the only option.

Speaker 2 Do you really feel that way?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, there are parts of me that think that sometimes, and it's not because of them,

Speaker 3 it's because of me

Speaker 3 and my insecurity, right?

Speaker 3 But I listen very closely in moments, and I don't know if that goes away. Honestly, I don't, I don't know if that ever will go away.
There's fear that there is no biological nature.

Speaker 3 And I do know that

Speaker 3 I am important to them. I do know that they love me.
I do know that they see me as a parent. I know it for the most part of me.

Speaker 3 But there is parts of me that gets jealous of the way that they come to you for things.

Speaker 3 And I'm sure that you also have things that you're jealous of me about. I don't know.
We do.

Speaker 2 Let's, I mean, be honest about that. Like every once in a while, we do.
The other day,

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 Chase will FaceTime Abby and I'll be like, did he try my phone? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 Here we go. Now we're getting to the phase.

Speaker 3 I'm going to hear Chase's phone on my phone.

Speaker 2 Chase has called me.

Speaker 3 Chase and Glennon are the ones that usually connect.

Speaker 3 He called me and she comes over and she grabs the phone.

Speaker 2 Glennon. That is not the phone.

Speaker 3 And she goes like this. And she's like this.
And I was like, give that fat back to me.

Speaker 2 And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah, I i did do that there's a little jealousy yes is what we're saying yeah yeah

Speaker 2 i'm trying to figure out what i can say to get out of that one and i can't think of anything right now so this is a problem with live shows

Speaker 2 i did do that i did do that it's okay that you did that i honor that part of you can you check in your body and see if you forgive me

Speaker 3 No, I, look, you and I, we have the, there's a, there's a thing in all relationships.

Speaker 3 Carrie, we have a thing as well it is yeah it's true and yeah and i don't think that that's wrong of you to be like oh my gosh like i want to see chase give me that phone yeah you know like you weren't like give me that phone why did he call you and not me like you weren't like that but there's parts of us yeah that have a little bit of envy and a little bit of like

Speaker 3 I want them to think that I'm their favorite parent.

Speaker 2 Like, that's just true.

Speaker 3 I want our kids to think that I'm awesome too. Yeah.
You know?

Speaker 2 Well, Carrie, I feel deeply amazed.

Speaker 2 And I don't know Carrie, so I'll just say about you. I have a feeling that Carrie is this exact same person

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 live with that kind of tenuous

Speaker 2 claim.

Speaker 2 and to still show up every single day with love and an open heart and service.

Speaker 2 I don't know why more people don't talk about step parenting as like an ultimate form of love.

Speaker 2 It's harder and trickier and more selfless than biological parenting. It just is.
I've experienced both and I can see it.

Speaker 2 So I just, with every bone in my body, know that Carrie's kids, even though it might be tricky and weird for some years, are the luckiest freaking kids on the earth.

Speaker 2 All of these lesbians that love them, like these poor kids are not going to have a moment of peace. I know.

Speaker 3 We're so in their business.

Speaker 2 Oh, Carrie, we love you. Okay.
Okay. Amanda, what's one thing you changed?

Speaker 2 What's one thing you changed in your life after your cancer diagnosis?

Speaker 2 I feel like I'm waiting for a big external force, or maybe I just want to get hit by a bus, but like not a serious hit, just a little tap.

Speaker 2 A little love tap by a bus. Yes.
That would force me to make a change in my life. Did your diagnosis push you to make a change you'd previously put off or ignored? What is that person's name?

Speaker 2 Because are they living in my brain? I don't know.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Wow. Glennon.
It's from Glennon. No, no.
Just check me.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 good news, bad news.

Speaker 2 The good news is you don't have to get hit by a bus.

Speaker 2 Because if your experience was like my experience, then neither buses nor cancer nor rain or sleet will get you to change yourself. So

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 too

Speaker 2 thought

Speaker 2 that

Speaker 2 I would have a radical change.

Speaker 2 And I did not for a long, long while. And it was really sad and scary for me because I thought that it would give me a radical change.

Speaker 2 And so I'm just here to tell you that I think I have started to change since then, since I realized my cancer didn't take to get me to change.

Speaker 2 I have started changing intentionally through small micro changes to try to chase my peace.

Speaker 2 But I think that is the good news and the bad news is that at least in my experience, the like from the heavens descending upon you and like affecting your life like some kind of movie where suddenly you have some kind of clarity and

Speaker 2 knowing and new understanding where you're like less of

Speaker 2 the parts of you that you don't like didn't happen.

Speaker 2 So I think that's, it was really sad for me, but also like incredibly liberating

Speaker 2 because there is no external force and indeed no force at all that gets you to change. It is not by force.

Speaker 2 It is by

Speaker 2 really wanting something more.

Speaker 2 than you want to hold on to your old ways.

Speaker 2 And so I've been working towards that. So you don't have to worry about the bus.
Just let them pass.

Speaker 3 I have a follow-up question for you because

Speaker 3 I think that this is really fascinating and important because so many people don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 3 I can imagine though that there's got to be, and I'm just curious, do you want peace?

Speaker 2 Number one.

Speaker 3 And number two,

Speaker 3 I can imagine being diagnosed with cancer and going through what you've gone through and part of me be like, I'm not changing a fucking thing. I'm going to fight this motherfucker.
I'm going to win.

Speaker 3 And I'm going to have the exact same life in a way as like a way to beat it.

Speaker 3 Was that part of your process? Because I think like that might be a way that I might try to tackle it.

Speaker 2 I think that the way you're describing it is the way you were kind of dealing with the Trump administration.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 this M Everest won't get common here after all I've fought for and take away my peace. Yeah, maybe that's just how I would deal with it, obviously.
No, I don't think that I felt that way.

Speaker 2 I think I just felt like there was going to be some kind of divine light that hit me and illuminated this greater meaning and like evaporated all of the daily stuff that I struggle with because suddenly I would be like,

Speaker 2 ah,

Speaker 2 when you're faced with a potential mortality, you have a, you know, like in Spirited. Right.
That's you know, the Elf Part 2 movie.

Speaker 2 It's like you're hoping, you do the thing, and then the world opens up to you and you no longer like, have the same fights and get annoyed at the same people and be just petty as hell.

Speaker 2 But then lo and behold, I still am all of those things. Because you're not a quitter.

Speaker 2 No, I will hold fast. I would hold my line.

Speaker 2 Hold my line.

Speaker 2 So, no, I think in the absence of that, when I wasn't shifted dramatically during during that time, I realized, oh, I have to shift

Speaker 2 myself. And so that's what I'm trying to do.
Okay. Nice.

Speaker 2 We can do our things is brought to you by Bumble, the app committed to bring people closer to love. I went through it in my first marriage.

Speaker 2 I was desperately in love and then in a whiplash of a moment, it was gone. I felt abandoned, betrayed, crushed.

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Speaker 2 This this exclusive black friday cyber monday deal is their best of the year so order now before it ends support the show by mentioning us at checkout terms and conditions apply this show is brought to you by alma i want to start with a truth i've learned the hard way taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time decision It's a daily practice.

Speaker 2 And even when you know you want support, the hardest part is often just figuring out where to start. For me, finding the right therapist changed everything.

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Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Hi there. My name is Claire.
I've been a long time listener. I'm 30 and just started taking an SSRI a couple years ago and it's been life-changing.

Speaker 2 I've lived a life of high highs, low lows up until very recently. And at this time in my life, I'm feeling very confused because i'm doing okay

Speaker 2 it's very dysregulating to suddenly be comfortable it's claire i found the okay person

Speaker 2 i knew there was one she's not okay with being okay it sounds like like it puts her strongly in our camp again like i just had the most emotionally stable year of my life and i don't know it's confusing oh it feels a little bit scary or that something is wrong and i know it's just because it's unfamiliar and i'm trying to resist the urge to give myself another problem, you know, like being on this treadmill of problem solving, being okay.

Speaker 2 What is all that about?

Speaker 3 Oh, I love

Speaker 2 Claire. For those who don't know, SSRIs are medications that are, usually it's like an anti-anxiety or antidepressant situation.
Surgeon and reuptake. Oh, sweet Claire Bear.

Speaker 2 So honest. I get it, Claire.
I, I found myself usually before any sort of tour like this or media or anything, I just feel terrified.

Speaker 2 And so, I mean, you guys know, like, just worry, worry, worry, worry, worry. And a couple of weeks ago, I realized I wasn't worrying.
And so that made me very worried.

Speaker 2 I told Abby, I'm like, I am worried that I am not worrying. And it's almost like you feel like you're holding the world together with your anxiety.

Speaker 2 And so if you let go of that anxiety, is that irresponsible? Like, that's kind of what I'm hearing from Claire. Like, if I let go of my death grip or my fear,

Speaker 2 is that when shit's gonna hit the fan?

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 Maybe.

Speaker 2 Sure is out, Claire. I don't know.
I mean, I just feel so, I'm so grateful for antidepressants, honestly. I just feel like I was able to build a life and become fully human because of SSRIs, 100%.

Speaker 2 I started taking them maybe 20, 25 years ago and just stopped taking them actually about a year ago, maybe. Is that right? A year ago?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I felt like when I was on them, I was on them so that I could have the full range of human experience, you know, and then I kept using them right up until when I thought that maybe I could have a fuller experience, not on them.

Speaker 2 So I am

Speaker 2 just a huge, anybody who is feeling half human and who is struggling and who feels like they're depressed or is in a serious spiral of anxiety, like you go to your doctor and you tell them what they need.

Speaker 2 And if your doctor does not take you seriously, you go to another doctor because you might have an experience like Claire where suddenly you're like, oh,

Speaker 2 this is what everyone else has been experiencing.

Speaker 2 You know, so I don't know, Claire. Here's what I do know:

Speaker 2 is that when I told my friend Liz that I was

Speaker 2 gonna try try to let go of control,

Speaker 2 she said, oh, that's so cute. Like, you never had control.
How are you going to let go of something you never had? All you have is the illusion of control.

Speaker 2 Like, you're letting go of the illusion, right? So, Claire, it's possible that all of your fear and worry and anxiety was never doing any good anyway.

Speaker 2 It was never doing any of the things that we thought it was doing. So, what a beautiful thing that she's letting it go.
Being okay, okay, what is that all about?

Speaker 2 What do you guys think it's all about? You think she's okay?

Speaker 2 I think what Claire is pointing out is like, you know how theoretically, if you're used to a certain way of growing up, and then you go to find a partner and you're automatically attracted to something that is similar to that way.

Speaker 2 And so maybe there's a way where there's like a lot of drama or a lot of like highs and low lows, the way Claire identified.

Speaker 2 And so you're used to this pattern of relationship, and you think, like, well, that's what relationship is. That's what love is.
It's a high highs, a low lows.

Speaker 2 And then suddenly you get into a very sane relationship that is just like steady, eddy, healthy. And you're just bored.
And you're like, what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 And you're, and there isn't the high highs and there isn't the low lows. And you're like, well, I'm buckled up.
I'm ready for the roller coaster. Here we go.
And it's like,

Speaker 2 and you're like,

Speaker 2 where's the part where my stomach goes,

Speaker 2 and where's the part where I think I'm going to die? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then you're, you're worried, you're bored, or you think there might be something

Speaker 2 wrong

Speaker 2 because of that. And so this is an adjustment.
If you think you're going on a roller coaster and you're going for a pleasure ride, it's a very different experience. So in some ways, it's, are you okay

Speaker 2 with a little, sweet little cruise? Yeah. And that might not, because it doesn't have what the other thing has,

Speaker 2 doesn't mean it's lacking what the other thing has.

Speaker 2 It might mean that it has something different that the other thing never had. That's right.
So if you can look clear not at just the absence

Speaker 2 of

Speaker 2 the high highs and low lows and say, is that a problem that it doesn't have that? See what in your new experience, what that is bringing to you.

Speaker 2 Do you value it? You know, and I think in the relationships, the same thing, you know, it's just a, it's an adjustment. Yeah.
When you're used to the roller coaster,

Speaker 2 we have to rap. Oh, no.
Okay. We got to do a few rapid questions.
We need to do the rapid fire questions. Okay, we're so unraped.
Whatever the

Speaker 2 rapid.

Speaker 3 Like, again, we said this before the show started.

Speaker 3 What does rapid mean?

Speaker 2 Fast.

Speaker 2 Abby wants us to understand that we're supposed to answer these fastly. Great.
Okay. All right.
What is bringing you joy lately? Go.

Speaker 2 oh my god abby go banana pudding i'm about to eat tonight are we having banana pudding yeah i got you ordered i got you sweet treat i got you sweet treat what did you get me can't tell you surprise okay okay it's a key lime pie and i also got a new york cheesecake

Speaker 2 and some cupcakes that that is bringing me big joy right now food i'm on this crazy new wellness plan

Speaker 2 that is called eating food and it is making me so happy it is really i welcome and And also, the other thing that is bringing me joy lately is that I just re-watched the entire girls series with Tish.

Speaker 2 Go.

Speaker 2 What is bringing me joy is that I can decide what I'm going to think about. Oh,

Speaker 2 yes, good choice. That I don't just have to.
think about what I'm thinking about.

Speaker 2 That if something pops in my head and it scares me or it makes me feel ick, I can just say, oh, we're not going to do that today.

Speaker 2 You can change the channel.

Speaker 2 I can say, i do you don't have to disappear i know that you deserve a place to live but it's not gonna be in my head right now that's good that's as rapid as we get wait we have more rapid questions well you made me feel like i had to go rapider no we no

Speaker 2 you just got to be rapid with your answers okay okay god the pressure how do you get to the quiet place so you can hear your true self Wait, is that a rapid question? That's what it says. Rapid quiet.

Speaker 2 How do you get to the quiet place where you can hear your true self?

Speaker 2 I go for a walk.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I don't do that.

Speaker 3 That's actually probably more useful.

Speaker 2 Sissy, I wonder what your shoes off is going to say. No, I'm fine.
I'm doing better than I ever have, which doesn't mean I'm doing well, but I am here to report I'm doing better than I ever have.

Speaker 2 I love that. What about you? Okay.

Speaker 2 You know, I also, walking is a big Abe Jalef Dale. I go for long walks and I don't put anything in my earbulls when I go for a walk.
That's what I've ever been working wrong. I don't.

Speaker 2 You can't hear the inside if you've got more stuff on the outside.

Speaker 3 I put things in my earballs.

Speaker 2 I know you do. Okay.
Last rapid fire question. Oh, I'm so sad.
I know. I loved this.
Okay. What's your personal theme song right now?

Speaker 3 Katie Gavin, the baton.

Speaker 2 I know you were going to take that one.

Speaker 3 We love Katie Gavin. Go and download her things.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 The baton, inconsolable,

Speaker 2 get out of town. Okay, well, you know my theme song.
She's a lead singer of Muna. Entire.

Speaker 2 Year has been free by Florence and the machine.

Speaker 2 Just please listen to that song. I feel like that song is all of us in like one song.
I really do. And there's these lines that it's like, is this what it's been?

Speaker 2 Is this what it's always been to stand in the face of suffering and death and somehow still keep singing? Which is what we're doing. And then she's like freaking out.

Speaker 2 And then at the end, she's like, spin it in circles. And then me part of it? Kind of.
And then she says, there's nothing else that I know how to do, but to open up my arms and give it all to you.

Speaker 2 And that's how I feel about this community. Like when Abby knows, like I'm in the bathroom, I'm like blow-dry my hair and I'm just crying.

Speaker 2 And I'm actually thinking about this community. That's all we know how to do.
We're just going to stand in the face of suffering and death and still keep singing.

Speaker 2 And we're just going to open up our arms and we're going to give it all to each other until we die. Can you think of a song?

Speaker 3 Sorry.

Speaker 2 I'm not wrong with that. That was beautiful.
Okay. You don't know any songs.
No, also, I don't know any songs. I think.
I don't have. Maybe it's because I can't listen to my internal voice.

Speaker 2 Maybe my internal voice has a lot to sing about. Okay.
Okay. Circle back next year.
Music. That's a new thing.
No, I love the music, but I don't know why on the spot. I'm like, what are songs?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, I get it. Any artist? Is that your favorite?

Speaker 2 No, she wants you to see

Speaker 2 persons.

Speaker 2 How come I've been able to answer all these hard things, but you asked me for an artist? What's the last?

Speaker 3 What's the last musical event you went to? The most recent? You went with John.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Jason Isbel. Great.

Speaker 2 Actually, I really like his new album. Okay, great.
There you go. Good job, babe.
You got her there. It wasn't rapid, but we got there.
I mean, I think it's the rapid thing that throws me off. I know.

Speaker 2 It makes me sweat too. It's the man.

Speaker 3 Okay, we got to say goodbye to you.

Speaker 2 At the end, we love you so much. We are so grateful to you for doing hard things with us for so long.
Thank you for helping us celebrate it.

Speaker 3 And they supported the indies.

Speaker 2 Yes, go indies.

Speaker 2 I know. Yes.
Thank you to all of the local independent bookstores that made this event possible. we are so grateful to you.

Speaker 2 We're grateful you are showing up in our communities and serving our communities and are there for us. And if we want you to exist,

Speaker 2 we need to support you. That's right.
That's how that works. God bless the independent bookstores and the librarians.
They're the freaking

Speaker 2 disseminating information to kids, no matter who says they can't, and they are the heroes of our time. Okay,

Speaker 2 we love you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. We can do hard things.

Speaker 2 We can do hard things. Bye.

Speaker 2 If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Speaker 2 Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

Speaker 2 To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

Speaker 2 This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

Speaker 2 We appreciate you very much.

Speaker 2 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Speaker 2 Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, and Bill Schultz.