Christen Press & Tobin Heath Protect What Matters Most (Best Of)

Speaker 1 Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. You are not going to want to miss this episode.
Because today we have the Kristen Press and the Tobin Heath.

Speaker 1 Kristen Press is a two-time World Cup champion, two-time Olympic gold medalist, and an equal pay pioneer.

Speaker 1 She is one of the all-time top 10 goalscorers on the national team and currently plays for Angel City FC. Kristen led the U.S.

Speaker 1 women's national team's historic achievement of equal pay and served as the leader of the U.S. Women's National Team Players Association for two years.

Speaker 1 Kristen is co-founder and co-CEO of Re-Inc, a values-led brand that exists to reimagine the way women are seen and experienced in sports.

Speaker 1 She sits on the board of Grassroots Soccer, a nonprofit organization that uses the power of soccer to provide mentors, information, and health services to at-risk youth in Africa.

Speaker 1 Tobin Heath is a two-time World Cup champion and a two-time Olympic gold medalist known as one of the most skillful and entertaining players in the game.

Speaker 1 Throughout her club career, Heath has played for PSG, the Portland Thorns, Manchester United, and Arsenal.

Speaker 1 Tobin has taken her vision, leadership, and creativity off the pitch and into her roles as co-founder and co-CEO of Re-Inc and host of the critically acclaimed show, which Abby and I are obsessed with, the Recap Show World Cup Edition.

Speaker 1 Welcome to two of our favorites, Kristen and Tobin.

Speaker 2 How are you guys?

Speaker 3 We are good.

Speaker 4 Oh, and can we just quickly tell you that

Speaker 2 one,

Speaker 4 I think I said this to you, but I literally have listened to every single episode of your podcast, except for my own.

Speaker 4 And I wanted to say that I I became obsessed with Enneagrams, which I'm sure I'm not the only one who tells you this, but because of your show to the point where, like, poor Tobin,

Speaker 4 our lives are ruled by the Enneagrams.

Speaker 2 And it is our lives are pure full.

Speaker 2 Her lives are ruled by.

Speaker 2 What numbers are you? Guys, what's your number, Kristen?

Speaker 4 Three, seven.

Speaker 1 Three and seven. So you two are my sister and Abby.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're missing a four.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And I was actually, I didn't know that your sister wasn't going to be on it.

Speaker 4 I've heard a lot about about her.

Speaker 3 And I was like, wait, what?

Speaker 4 I know. It's because Amanda only joins when there's like an expert on.

Speaker 2 That's when I join. She's never on.

Speaker 2 That is not true.

Speaker 1 That's not true.

Speaker 3 What am I an expert at? I did say, I was like, when Kristen said when you texted about the double date.

Speaker 3 And I was like, wait, so you got to talk about something meaningful and I have to talk about our relationship.

Speaker 2 We'll have you back on, Tobin, just solo you. Oh my God.
And the next time we have Kristen on.

Speaker 2 Our relationship is so meaningful. It is meaningful.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 That sentence is so amazing. You got to talk about something meaningful and I'm stuck with our relationship.

Speaker 2 Well, Tobin, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Tobin, did you hear the Suzanne Stabile episode that we did on, and I'm a seven and I've been doing a ridiculous amount of work in therapy right now trying to discover more about my shadow side, like the sadder emotions that I don't ever feel or want to feel.

Speaker 2 And that's been real interesting.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Well, I also followed your lead and got went into therapy after I learned about my Enneagram, legitimately. Listened to your podcast, found out what my Enneagram was, and then was there for therapy.

Speaker 4 But I have tried to get Tobin to like start to think about her shadow side, and it's not going well for us.

Speaker 2 It's

Speaker 3 there.

Speaker 2 It's there. The shadow side's there.
It's there.

Speaker 1 Are you like a bright sider? Like, do you want to stay on this side of things? You want to stay on the happy side, look on the bright side, not delve too.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 No, I,

Speaker 3 yeah, I never knew I was devoid of negative feelings. Okay.
I always, I always found it to be my superpower, right?

Speaker 2 Me too.

Speaker 3 Your superpower is also like your greatest. I do think it probably has helped in sports.
Yes.

Speaker 2 In a lot of ways. Yes.
It's really not great when you retire, though. It's toughy.
Yeah. It's tough.

Speaker 3 I also

Speaker 3 think that I've like kind of reframed that in a way as well.

Speaker 1 So I know the feeling that she's big on the reframe. This is the re-ink, reimagine.

Speaker 1 Let's go ahead and reframe your resistance to

Speaker 1 the other half of being human, right? Which is the sad stuff.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I just think that Kristen kind of makes me confront that side.

Speaker 2 And I am the shadow she is living in the shadows.

Speaker 1 Sometimes we just have to get in the water, you know.

Speaker 1 Do you two know what's interesting is that it turns out, okay, I didn't know this until this recent iteration of therapy this year, but it turns out that Kristen is actually not the shadow, and you're the light.

Speaker 1 So people polarize.

Speaker 1 So, like, if I want Abby to, hello, pay attention to all of the horrible things that could happen. Let's get anxious, let's get a little depressed, then I'm constantly that side.

Speaker 1 Then she goes into therapy and she's just fucking bitching all the time.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, lighten up Francis like

Speaker 2 I am like

Speaker 1 a bit a ray of sunshine around here lately I get to be fully human

Speaker 4 oh interesting I yeah that's the messy middle that's not being so black or white I'm working on in therapy

Speaker 4 so much black and white thinking so it's like if you are always happy then I'll just always be evil

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 yeah or you know what has been interesting Abby is a very nervous parent

Speaker 1 she's like always

Speaker 1 worried so much okay and especially since they've become teenagers and I you guys I'm like suddenly I'm like the dad I'm like

Speaker 1 fine everything's fine it's all gonna work out And I'm like, oh, this is how men feel. Like, you just need a wife to be chill.

Speaker 1 It's not like a personality type it's like somebody else is worrying so you get to be calm so that's reassuring so you're like she's busy worrying i'm good

Speaker 2 and then you get to be like everything nice yeah anyway

Speaker 3 yeah i was gonna say it's such a nice thing to have

Speaker 1 it really is it really is so it's interesting we have a friend who called abby and said i heard that you're doing shadow work i'm also a seven but i don't want to do anything about it and i'm not going to i like my life and i like being this way yeah she was if there's anything like really important such a seven

Speaker 1 if i should know anything just let me know like what it is like after you do the work let me know if like there's something that i could use yeah you're like it doesn't really work i know i know um but but a seven would want that just give me the oh give me the notes um give me the notes okay so i'm so excited to talk to you about a situation that you two are i don't know just doing that is actually quite revolutionary in the the world right now.

Speaker 1 And I want to talk to you about it as

Speaker 1 actually,

Speaker 1 as you're the experts on it.

Speaker 2 Hey, okay.

Speaker 2 You're the experts on it because no one else is doing it.

Speaker 1 No, you are. And it's something that in like my recovery right now, I'm thinking about non-stop,

Speaker 1 non-stop about, and that is privacy.

Speaker 1 So I read Kristen say that both of you have have a joy for sacredness and that you deeply appreciate privacy and that

Speaker 1 you have an opportunity to model privacy as a valid way to be, even in the public eye.

Speaker 1 As models, especially for people who might be struggling in their personal life or in ways that make them vulnerable in their community, like their relationship could make them vulnerable in their community.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 in other words, while many people in the public eye, including athletes, are choosing to show their interior lives in like big and loud and public ways, which is valid and amazing,

Speaker 1 you too are showing to the queer community and to everyone the beauty of doing it quietly and privately, which is actually

Speaker 1 revolutionary and actually it's resistance.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 It's resistance. I'm like, I can't stop thinking about it now because we're in this world where your value is what you can show people and like the clickbait and the exposure.

Speaker 1 So I'm thinking about this a lot in terms of looking back on my last 15 years and like what my family has gained and what they have lost by opening ourselves up to the world. And it's a lot.

Speaker 1 It's like one of those things I don't even like looking back on directly

Speaker 1 because there's a lot of things in the lost column.

Speaker 1 So when you say you have a joy for the sacred,

Speaker 1 can you you talk to me about, and also you can talk to Abby too, because she's here.

Speaker 1 Can you talk to me about what sacred means?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 4 Do you want me to start? Of course. I think that, like, when I think of what's sacred, I think that like sometimes in the world now,

Speaker 4 everything is happening so fast and so quickly and you need immediate.

Speaker 4 return on the things that you're doing. And when I think of something that's sacred, I think of something that's like intentional and it's slow and it's a little bit ours.

Speaker 4 And I think like a little bit of protection from some of the worst parts of society, to your point, there's pros and cons, right?

Speaker 4 Like as much as you've said, we've lost a lot, I'm sure you've gained a lot. So it's not like, I don't think we have an attitude about like our ways good.

Speaker 4 I think, especially in a queer relationship, we think a lot about modeling and being brave and being out in a way that, you you know, people need role models.

Speaker 4 And we've kind of had to like grapple with that

Speaker 4 and what is our calling, because it's not always the same. But as you know, being on a team, it's very easy to look at what everybody else is doing and say, okay, that's the right way.

Speaker 4 And there's so much that I think we admire from our teammates and from public figures that have been out and proud, just like the two of you, right?

Speaker 4 I think there's something so beautiful about that, but it never felt like it was like Tobin and my calling, or for it was not the right maybe lifestyle or decision or series of decisions that reflected us.

Speaker 4 And I think it also, we've also both felt like we had something to protect. And I

Speaker 4 generally always like try to chase the good. Like I never want to make decisions because I'm like, I'm afraid of the bad.

Speaker 4 But when it came to my relationship, like that felt like erring on the side of the safe side and always protecting and always protecting you.

Speaker 4 And then the last thing I'd say is it's like the marriage of like our different perspectives and our different families and our different baggages.

Speaker 4 And it ended up being this like really unique way of living that we have that we actually don't see anywhere else that I think is important. It's become like a really important part of us.

Speaker 4 We obviously, we've been teammates, we run a business together. So I think like the way that I see it is it's like not, don't look at us, look at what we do.

Speaker 4 And it allows our relationship to be ours and special and feel a little bit safe. And it allows us to have a space to like share our passion and our life's work with more people.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 Love it. Look, don't look at us.
Look at our work. And you both are on the same page.
Like, what were the conversations like, how do you come to this? Cause you have the same

Speaker 1 decision about this. Like, what does your decision making look like?

Speaker 3 I don't know if it's so much of a decision making. I felt like it was kind of like an extension of the way that I viewed like my life and my passions and my

Speaker 3 crafts is like also with that same kind of, I guess, specialness to it, where like I

Speaker 3 feel like if there's something really, really good, you almost kind of like. you want to create a space for it that's just for you

Speaker 3 like where you get to create your own worlds and stuff like that and i feel like especially in a world that just feels like everything's for other people, it's so hard to hold on to something that's for yourself.

Speaker 3 And even like when I think about football, it's like I didn't do football to be like known. You know, I did football because like I loved it.
And it's like, I don't do my relationship to be known.

Speaker 3 I do my relationship because I'm so crazy in love. And I feel like once you start giving things, what do you have for yourself? And it's like hard.

Speaker 4 I actually think that's such an important part because,

Speaker 4 and I think you all understand, there's some twisted thing. You know,

Speaker 4 we are in the queer community and we're fighting with the queer community for rights and all these things and protections and opportunities.

Speaker 4 And yet, as a queer public figure, it actually felt like us coming out and being really public in our relationship would be a huge advantage.

Speaker 4 It felt like we would have a bigger following, we'd be able to make more money, we're more marketable together, and that made it less interesting. That's,

Speaker 3 yeah, that made it so not interesting.

Speaker 1 Because, so, so, let me, so, so, you didn't want to monetize your relationship? Is that what you're saying? I'm confused.

Speaker 2 So, you

Speaker 1 were not interested in monetizing your gut it.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 I mean, I just think that that's revolutionary.

Speaker 1 There's a difference between sacred and not sacred.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, things we monetize and things we don't.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 It's like crossing this sacred boundary. And we just, I think it was natural.
I was out.

Speaker 2 You were like the gay pride leader of the world when we met.

Speaker 2 Do you think that we monetize our love? Oh, come on.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we have.

Speaker 2 Shit.

Speaker 2 And, okay. Can we like pull the genie back into the lamp? Yeah, always.

Speaker 1 Always.

Speaker 2 I mean, because I feel a lot of envy right now for them.

Speaker 1 Well, I think that there's something really beautiful.

Speaker 1 I think it sounds hard to make that decision, just because anything that you're doing that's countercultural, that's different than what everyone else is doing in your position is so.

Speaker 1 And also, the queer community is so focused on out, out, out.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it reminds me of with feminism where it's like, you have to be yelling all the time or you have to be loud or you have to be whatever.

Speaker 1 And it's like, no, it's the idea is that everybody just gets to be themselves.

Speaker 1 So if yourself self is quieter, like we have two different daughters and one of them, freedom looks quieter and the other one, freedom looks loud. But if you're just trying to fit another

Speaker 1 blueprint, then that's not freedom at all. So is there anything that you see happening in

Speaker 1 your friends' more public lives that make you feel like, yikes, that is not what we wanted. Are there things that you see that you that affirm your decisions?

Speaker 2 Judgment from the world.

Speaker 4 Um, and that's not even about the relationship, it's just all of us when we put ourselves out there. Like, I don't enjoy the judgment.
You know, I'll avoid that if I can.

Speaker 4 And the judgment, I think, comes from this idea that of permanence, of people see something that is right now, and they just make a thousand assumptions about the rest of eternity.

Speaker 4 And you asked, like, how did we make that decision? And I actually think like Tobin and I made it quite differently. I would say Tobin is compared to what is expected is extremely non-committal.

Speaker 4 And so you can tell them your whole seven-year contract situation if you'd like.

Speaker 2 Please do.

Speaker 4 But I think there's something that Tobin said to me that I had to understand early because I had expectations of what a relationship is.

Speaker 4 And that was like, you know, you sign in blood that you'll never leave no matter what.

Speaker 2 And that's always working well. Always works well.

Speaker 4 And I had modeled for me from my parents. And I was like, that's what love is.
But then Tobin said to me, she said,

Speaker 4 every single day I wake up and I make a decision to be with you. And that's romantic to me.
And I was like, oh, that's, that makes me feel way better about your lack of commitment.

Speaker 2 Good job.

Speaker 3 Good job.

Speaker 4 But, but I think it is beautiful.

Speaker 4 So I think like part of what I've seen in other people, to answer your question, is like the world world assuming that they know about their relationship when they don't

Speaker 4 and I don't want that and I don't think that that was anyone's decision but it was just the consequence of being in the public eye

Speaker 2 yeah because like you when you put anything out on social oh here we are we're together then if it's like a pie like you you give this fake pie of responsibility that these random people in the world think that they have on your relationship.

Speaker 2 And it's not true, right? We all know, like most of us know that the people out there don't really know really what's going on. It's this fake contract that we have.

Speaker 1 Speaking of contract, what's the seven-year contract?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, maybe this just comes from sports, but I just think that like relationships need to be like redefined or reimagined.

Speaker 3 I think it's kind of like an insane expectation that you're going to make a decision and that decision is just going to be like for the rest of your lives.

Speaker 3 And it's not to deny that that can totally work,

Speaker 3 but I've done research and I've gone around and asked a lot of people, like, would you want the relationship your parents have?

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I only met one person to date that said yes. No way.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, that's a surprising for sure.

Speaker 3 And it's like, it's really important for me, like for modeling maybe like different ideas of what queer relationships can be.

Speaker 3 It's so weird to think that like in the queer community, we try to then label and define things where like the whole point is to be undefined and fluid and to be able to choose.

Speaker 3 And yet it's like we need this clarity. And I think it's in the ambiguous nature of being queer and that that word really vibes with me.

Speaker 3 Like gay never vibed with me, but like queer really vibed with me.

Speaker 3 And it was like in this fluidity because, and maybe this isn't a part of the sevenness, but it's like, I don't want to be boxed in by any kind of label, any kind of definition.

Speaker 3 And honestly, one of the most beautiful things that like Kirsten's ever given to me in my relationship was just like complete freedom.

Speaker 3 And like, even in my like crazy ideas, because most of them is just like the idea of freedom. It's not this idea that like I'm going off and doing like all these crazy things.

Speaker 3 It's just this idea that I'm independent. I'm my own person.
And like even within our relationship, I'm my own person. I can be seen as an individual piece of it.

Speaker 3 And for the choice part, that's probably the part that like I love that makes things exciting for me.

Speaker 3 And like the fact that I have somebody that's literally a new choice every day, because she's like a thousand different things all at once. So it's, it makes life super interesting.

Speaker 2 But yeah,

Speaker 3 long story short. Sorry.
The contracts.

Speaker 2 No. And then I take it like sports.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, all right, how many years do you want? And then like at the end of a contract year, you come back together and you, you say, is this something like you want to sign up for how many years

Speaker 3 and you sign another contract or you just go your separate and you say that was really fun it's time to yeah it's an out

Speaker 3 that's so cool it's so wild because like yeah to be fair kids like i have thought about this kids probably complicate the contract but for now the contract seems like pretty

Speaker 2 Epic. Yeah.
Epic.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Pretty epic.
It is interesting that it's like, we are queer and we want to do things differently, which means we just want the right to be as miserable as heterosexual people.

Speaker 2 That's true. Yeah.
I like this contract idea. I have a big fear of abandonment.
So that

Speaker 2 are you sweating? I don't think it's right for you. You're like, I'm like curled up in the fetal position right now.

Speaker 2 I'm like scared that Glendon after this is going to be like, hey, I really like that idea that Tobin shared.

Speaker 1 Well, let's talk about that for a second because this takes a lot of strength.

Speaker 2 this takes a lot of strength and and like trust in yourself and in your person it's just well kristen how did you wrap your mind around this early days like when tobin brought this to you

Speaker 4 i think that tobin is a lot more um bark than bite

Speaker 2 so this is my hopeful hypothesis.

Speaker 4 I always tell her she's like, you know, a dog that's like looking outside the fence, but as soon as you open the door, they like tuck their tail and they run home.

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 4 i don't know if that means i truly wrapped my mind around it or i just think it's like the right thing for her because i think there's me and my just like impulses and what i want and my insecurities i acknowledge those things sometimes sometimes i bury them but i try to like function from like the best version of me.

Speaker 4 And the best version of me is like confident enough to believe that one, she'll want to be with me.

Speaker 4 And two, if she doesn't, who would ever want to be with a partner that like openly didn't want to be with them? So, like, there's really no loss here.

Speaker 4 It's really like, it's just giving her that feeling of freedom to be how she is and who she is.

Speaker 2 What is that quote that's like

Speaker 1 that? The highest expression of love is to love your person so that they constantly feel free. Like, freedom is the highest level of love.

Speaker 1 And that makes perfect sense because all of the contracts are so people cannot leave you under threat of money.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 1 it is certainly not love-based. It's fear-based.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And I think also because, and we can come back to like reasons why people stay in relationships, but like, I think if you have like independent self-worth and actual worth, like you talk about financial freedom.

Speaker 3 It's a whole different dynamic as well.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 So true.

Speaker 3 That can be on the next episode because that seems like a lot.

Speaker 2 Yeah, too.

Speaker 1 That's a lot. Thank you for that.
I mean, you guys are so I love people who are like doing their things, their brands, their things in the world, and then they're really like that in their life.

Speaker 1 You're like reimagining for real in your lives

Speaker 1 what life relationships can look like, doing it in such beautiful ways. It's so cool.

Speaker 2 It's awesome. Thank you.
I agree.

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Speaker 2 I want to kind of switch gears, if you guys don't mind, for like the non-soccer pod squatter listening to this, you heard Tobin earlier say football. She meant not American football, she meant soccer.

Speaker 1 Tobin is a linebacker.

Speaker 2 Kristen, can you describe Tobin as a soccer player or a footballer?

Speaker 4 Oh, I feel to go back.

Speaker 4 I feel like, oh no, I hope I do her justice.

Speaker 2 That's sweet.

Speaker 4 Tobin, as a footballer,

Speaker 4 I think she's incredibly creative. She's very brave.
It's like an art. It's a dance.
Like everything about her personality is out on the field. She's also extremely competitive.

Speaker 4 And actually, when I watch, she looks like

Speaker 4 her least happy self. Like the happy, easygoing, kind person I know all the time is gone.
I know someone on the field that is very crazy.

Speaker 4 And as she like developed and became the best version of herself, she actually became incredibly disciplined, but like an amazing defender, extremely smart and knowledgeable.

Speaker 4 And so when she was younger, she was sort of like, oh, Tobin's so good, she doesn't need to defend.

Speaker 4 And then she became like amazing at what people said she wasn't good at just to like kind of prove a point and then became like a very well-rounded player.

Speaker 4 And in her very last couple of last years, she started scoring more goals too.

Speaker 2 Hey, hey, hey, that's right. Okay, so just a couple.
Now

Speaker 3 I had some good advice.

Speaker 2 Kristen, now describe her as a non-soccer player human.

Speaker 1 Oh, well, it's pretty much the same as she is.

Speaker 4 Oh, except for the opposite is her alter ego, Taubin, her

Speaker 4 most aggressive, evil self. I mean, maybe that's there in her real life, but I don't think so.
I think she really uses sport to get all that negative juju.

Speaker 2 Ah, maybe that's the shadow side.

Speaker 4 Oh, maybe she is living in her shadow side.

Speaker 1 Wait, is

Speaker 1 Tobin the evil soccer player?

Speaker 2 Like the

Speaker 3 Gemini, so there's two sides of,

Speaker 2 yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 Also, I would like to say, as someone who has watched Tobin play,

Speaker 1 her feet dance around as if unattached to her legs.

Speaker 2 It's like

Speaker 1 things are happening that it's like trickster things are happening with her feet that are crazy, right?

Speaker 2 It's very true. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I never wanted to be close to either one of you guys playing because Tobin would just like meg you. And you're like, yeah.

Speaker 1 Just for fun, because of Evil Tobin.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 1 So, Tobin, can you describe Kristen as a soccer player?

Speaker 4 Goal scorer,

Speaker 3 driven,

Speaker 3 singularly focused,

Speaker 3 exceptional,

Speaker 3 crazy, like specific,

Speaker 3 excellent, just excellence.

Speaker 4 Why does it look so painful?

Speaker 3 Because it is

Speaker 3 fast.

Speaker 1 What is different about Kristen as a human being than as a soccer player?

Speaker 3 She is all those things as a human. I would say excellence like stands out as just being like a through line.
And then I would say as a human, she has such a wide aperture for people.

Speaker 3 Like

Speaker 3 that is cool. From a social perspective, it's, it's probably the, I'd say the place that I've learned the most from her is in her empathy and her compassion for others.

Speaker 3 I don't really have much of that.

Speaker 1 Is that true? Like, do you have strong boundaries with other people? What do you mean by that?

Speaker 3 I think it was just learnings, right? I don't think I had been exposed to some of the learnings that Kristen had and through different lenses.

Speaker 3 And honestly, it wasn't really a part of myself that like showed a lot of curiosity.

Speaker 3 I always like wanted to put good into the world, but I never knew from like a social aspect, like what that really meant.

Speaker 3 You know, I'm like, oh, like people just enjoy watching me play football. That's, that's fun and joyful.
But I've really understood

Speaker 3 a bit more about

Speaker 3 other people, which is always helpful.

Speaker 2 Kristen, this excellence piece that like kind of lives on both sides of you, both as a soccer player and as like a non-soccer player human where does that live inside of you what function is it is it for you like what what what why it's because she's i'm a three

Speaker 4 yeah i'm a three so this is like oh this is my whole revolution of 2023 was

Speaker 4 you know, so the Enneagram is like trauma-based, right? So I was like trying to understand why I am the way I am. I understand what, how a three like manifests that, but it's simply like the idea of

Speaker 4 wanting validation from the people that are most important to you. So, it's actually like kind of a like a middle range.
It's not like I need the whole world to say I'm the best.

Speaker 4 I like really specifically needed my parents to be proud of me when I was a kid. And they also had a very like broken relationship.

Speaker 4 And I was four years old saying, Well, when I score goals, they're very happy. And so, it's kind of a simple story of like every athlete, right? Like chasing something that's unattainable.

Speaker 4 I kept scoring goals. They were still not like, you know, happier at the day's end.
Like it was so fleeting. And like my entire drive for soccer to this day, like I wonder, why do I do this still?

Speaker 4 Because I.

Speaker 4 feel like my love was of being successful

Speaker 4 and my need was to be successful. And when I try new things and I'm good at them, I say, oh, I like that thing.
And when I try something and I'm not good at it, I don't like that thing.

Speaker 4 But it's like, I've never learned to actually

Speaker 4 assess the activity. I can only assess how good I am at it.

Speaker 4 So now I'm in a place of my life where I'm like, oh my gosh, who am I? What do I like? I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 4 Like if I didn't play soccer, if I didn't just keep doing what I was doing, running my business, and someone was like, Kristen, what would you like to do? I have No idea. Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 4 That's scary.

Speaker 1 So like, if you have a where you have nothing to do first of all does that do you even allow a world in which that no that's not i don't like that a whole day no maybe an hour

Speaker 1 so if you have

Speaker 2 to be scheduled like do nothing okay so that's in your calendar tobacco you can do you can do a day right you're a seven you can chill and give me a month yeah me too geez

Speaker 1 does that cause any tension

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 3 no i would say like our i think maybe it's because like i'm like kind of like along for the ride

Speaker 3 and I make for like a really fun kind of like partner on the ride.

Speaker 2 Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're yeah, I'm good at that shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah. What do you want to do? I'm ready to go.
Like I'm ready to do whatever.

Speaker 3 And she like wants to do the most epic shit ever. So it's like, dang, I chose like the right train to get on, you know?

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 3 it's so amazing. Like,

Speaker 3 yeah, it's so amazing. I'm like, I think she's so cool.

Speaker 1 Kristen,

Speaker 1 this is is a thing though because god it's so interesting thinking about sacred things

Speaker 1 that are not for other people that are not for success that are not for monetizing and then trying to find something for yourself that is not any of those things

Speaker 1 like do you have those things personally anything that is like

Speaker 4 i'm not so When I think about this, and honestly, when I'm like talking about this to my therapist, the only example I have is Tobin.

Speaker 4 Honestly, the only like the only example I have for something that I know I like that I chose that is like innate in me

Speaker 4 and is Tobin. I can't think of a single other example.
Oh, and maybe like a dog, like my parents' dogs, like they like me for me.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Not for like what I do, but there's nothing else. And I used to have, well, very recently, I would go around saying like, I'm going to be a farmer.

Speaker 4 Like I'm going to quit my job, job, grow up my hair, never cut it, never put on shoes, put on a big hat and work on the farm. Like, this was my dream.

Speaker 3 I was like, I figured it all out. I'm going to be really happy.

Speaker 4 And my little sister, who works on farms, said to me, she was like, you would hate that.

Speaker 4 And I was like, oh, she's so mad, like, because I'm going to do something that she was, she said, no. She was right.

Speaker 4 My personality type doesn't make for a great

Speaker 1 like the idea of being a farmer you just want to press a button and have a different somebody to tell you what to do and have that vibe but really you just need like a a new free people hat that's a farmer's hat you know like it's not we had that dream for a month we were gonna have a homestead on a ranch we were gonna call it the homostead we had it all named this is still my dream like this is this is still my dream we were gonna have highland cows i think have you seen pictures of highland cows many talk about them again okay just google it.

Speaker 2 It may, it may bring back the dream of wanting to have a farm. Here's the thing.

Speaker 2 It's got to be so hard for you, Kristen, because the same with our sister Amanda, you probably excel and are exceptional at almost everything you do try.

Speaker 2 And so when you're associating being good at something with liking it, it must be very confusing because all of these adventures and things you take on, you're like, oh yeah, I figured it out.

Speaker 2 Like you're super smart. You have a lot of agency.
You You can get shit done. And so it seems like you have all of this to look at and be like, look at what I've love.

Speaker 2 And you're like, actually, I don't know if I like any of it. Wow.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 And it's actually dangerous. Like, I don't have a belief that like talent is real.
I like believe that I can do everything. I just believe that because I'm like, look, if I could make it to the U.S.

Speaker 4 women's national team as a soccer player, I literally can do anything because I didn't have a lot of things going in that direction. And so it makes it so I have no discernment, right?

Speaker 4 And like, is that not the most important thing to be able to know when to say no or know what you like and what you don't like? And like just gives you so much direction to move through things.

Speaker 4 And then I think what happens is I get caught. And I've been talking a lot with this, about this with you is like, I get caught just doing what I'm doing

Speaker 4 because I can't find the thing inside me that says, like, this is what you actually want.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 2 I think a lot of our lives, though, we've been stunted a little bit because it's been so soccer focused that, like, you're now kind of nearing.

Speaker 2 I don't mean to know exactly when you're going to retire, but you're getting closer to the end than you were when you started.

Speaker 2 And like, your brain is starting to like shift into maybe what's going to happen next.

Speaker 2 And so you're, you're building something whether you like it or not you do have to open your aperture up for ideas and possibilities for like the next step and the next phase of your life because we didn't have the opportunity we just had like little blinders on only focus on one thing when i retired i did not know how to be a person i did not know how to make a calendar a schedule for myself i didn't had to teach her how to use calendar like actually i didn't know i was like somebody's not going to send me a daily like schedule No, I have to figure out how to do that.

Speaker 2 So I know that it might feel daunting, but this is the process you will be on for probably the next five to 10 years, however long it is. Like it is just the process you are going through.

Speaker 2 And every player who has stepped away from playing at some point, whether it's been injury or retirement, whether they want to go through it like you are, or some players choose not to actually try to figure it out.

Speaker 1 You're just a seeker too.

Speaker 1 Like, here's the thing about seekers, okay?

Speaker 1 God help us if we find anything.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 1 We cannot. We cannot be a farmer.
The second we go be a farmer, we are going to be like, I belong in the city.

Speaker 2 They have the answers.

Speaker 1 Like, as long as we keep seeking, we're fine. But we are cult susceptible.
We are moving susceptible. We are like, if we find anybody that we think has the answer, we think someone has the answers.

Speaker 1 Kristen, you think somebody has the answers and that you're going to find it. But the thing is, is that your answer is that you are the most beautiful seeker.

Speaker 1 Like, we just need to hear you think out loud forever.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Somehow. I agree.

Speaker 1 Somehow. We just need to hear you think out loud.
What are your conflict styles?

Speaker 1 And what was your last argument about?

Speaker 4 See, I should have known this question was coming. Shoot.

Speaker 4 Last argument.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 4 Oh, conflict styles. I would say angry, angry.

Speaker 2 Angry. Angry.

Speaker 4 Fire, fire.

Speaker 2 Fire, fire.

Speaker 3 Oh, that's fire. Fire, fire, bonfire.

Speaker 2 Cool.

Speaker 3 Kristen has to like talk it out. She needs to talk it out.
And I'd rather just be like, let's just give it 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 Avoidance.

Speaker 1 Avoidance. I don't really take anything too serious.

Speaker 3 I think that's the problem.

Speaker 4 Unless you're very angry. Oh, we can't give them like, we can't give them the pretend version that you're just like, cool.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but I'm always just, no,

Speaker 3 no chill, no chill one on me.

Speaker 4 No, yeah. She's, I would say Tobin is like, like I said, she's so easygoing,

Speaker 4 chill, easy to be around, gets along with everyone. Like, I would just describe her whole life as ease.
And then she does hit a point where like she cannot stand me.

Speaker 4 Like, I'll be like, look at me. It's still me.
Look at me. She's like, I don't see you and I don't like you.

Speaker 2 Interesting.

Speaker 4 And I'm a little, I would say I'm more quick to anger. Like I'm irritable and I'll bark.

Speaker 2 That's right. That's good.
That's, I think that that's really, I do too.

Speaker 1 It must be good to have two fires because then you don't worry one person's not like getting their stuff out at all.

Speaker 3 I, I didn't grow up in a house of yelling at all. Like I never once saw my parents yell.
And I took yelling to be a sign of like, oh no, this is bad. Like, this is bad for us.
Me too.

Speaker 2 It is.

Speaker 3 Well, like, yelling, yeah. No, I'm, I'm thankful for that.
But I also, like, it,

Speaker 3 we like clean house like all the time.

Speaker 3 We just let it burn, you know. It's like, there's nothing like that we're, there's no like rug that has something under it that that is going on.

Speaker 3 Like, we put it all out in the open and it burns, and then do a little sage dance or whatever, Pelosanto, and we're right back to work.

Speaker 1 So you recover quickly.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 And Tobin will swear she doesn't even remember that it happened.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 4 I'll be like, oh, you remember when we got in this blowout fight when we were doing it? She'll be like, no.

Speaker 1 Little dissociation there.

Speaker 4 Very shadow side in the past, you see?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, think twice, Kristen, before you encourage Tobin to go into therapy for the shadow side. I'm just saying there's something legit about keeping your partner on the happy side.

Speaker 3 I keep telling her this.

Speaker 2 The only thing that I would say, Tobin, is I didn't know how much I was suffering without saying it. So like now I'll like something as little as missing a turn while driving.

Speaker 2 For whatever reason, I've not expressed an anger feeling or a sadness feeling for probably three weeks. Okay.

Speaker 2 And then I miss a turn. I've made a mistake.
And I'm like, God fucking damn it. I mean, tell me,

Speaker 2 she's like, I'm an idiot. I'm so stupid.

Speaker 2 And everybody in the car is like, what the hell?

Speaker 2 And so, and so now I'll let some of my like, cause, cause it's still me. I'm not an angry person either.
And I'm like, oh, man, that was silly.

Speaker 2 I like say stuff now that it's like a pressure thing. Like I, I release every once in a while so that I don't ever blow.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's interesting.

Speaker 1 And then the thing we've been working on recently is that unfortunately, as Abby has started to express her feelings more to me.

Speaker 2 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 She will be like, just last week, I was being terrible.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Our general fight is, am I irritable or are you irritating? That's it. That's our whole fight.
That's it.

Speaker 1 She told me that I had hurt her feelings and I had. And I knew I had.

Speaker 1 And she sat me down and she said it very seriously and very, very sincerely. And I burst out laughing.

Speaker 3 Oh my gosh. And that happened to me one time too.
Literally, did Kristen. I was like, I'm trying to be open and say how I'm feeling.

Speaker 5 And she literally laughed.

Speaker 3 And I was like, isn't this supposed to work?

Speaker 2 I'm like, isn't this what you want?

Speaker 3 I'm like, I remember this. This happened a long time ago and it probably only happened once, which is why I remember.
But I was like, I guess I'm not doing it right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's, it's a vulnerability. I've crossed over into this no-go zone for Glennon.
And I'm just like, I said, I was like, that really, really hurt my feelings. And I like, I just want to tell you that.

Speaker 2 And she just, she gets this face and she goes.

Speaker 2 And then you guys have a thing, right? Like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 Now I know I can't do it because we've talked about it so many times. So now it's over.
It's like when you start laughing at a funeral. It's happening.
It's coming.

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 1 You know, the thing that went on that was like your Roman Empire, it was like all over the internet for a while. Like, what do you guys think about all the time? I want to know this from you too.

Speaker 1 When you're not being forced to think about something in particular for work, what are you thinking about the most?

Speaker 4 Well, I did not get the Roman Empire.

Speaker 2 Me either, but I you don't know what happens on the internet, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 Okay, so there was like this thing going around that wives were asking their husbands, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? And they were like, every day.

Speaker 2 Like, men once every moment reacting like this is new.

Speaker 4 White straight.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, I've never heard this.

Speaker 2 And it was like shocking to women everywhere. Like, what?

Speaker 1 And there's a lot of like underneath that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.

Speaker 1 There's a lot underneath that. Okay, what are you how things are organized?

Speaker 3 Oh, no, I can't be pinned down to one thing.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. Tell them about the walks through the forests and stuff.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. So, like,

Speaker 3 I am obsessed with my mind.

Speaker 3 I don't know if people say that, but not because I'm like thinking like I'm like so smart or so whatever, but it's because I love my imagination

Speaker 3 and I can do anything in my mind, right? So, anything that like I can't do, like in this physical world, I can do in my mind. And a lot of times, like, I'll go for a walk.

Speaker 3 So, I know some people become restless if they can't sleep or something. And I'll just go to my favorite place in my mind and I'll just walk around.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it's, yeah, I think that's probably where I call it my mind palace. And that's where I would go.
Like, I go to different like rooms and like hang out and walk around in my mind.

Speaker 1 You have a palace that's built and it's like the same one.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and it's like it's infinite.

Speaker 2 That's cool.

Speaker 1 That is so cool. That's like happy creative dissociation.

Speaker 2 You do it too. It just, you never called herself.

Speaker 4 Oh, it is so cool.

Speaker 1 I think that's magical. I think that's magical.
That's so wonderful.

Speaker 4 And it's like, that's what she does, like when she would be like, oh, I can't sleep. I'm like anxious.
And she's like, forget that. I'm going to the Heath.
in London.

Speaker 4 And she just walks around and she literally goes there. I think, I think it's so cool.
I just am a little jealous because I just like can't sleep and have anxiety.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 You're in the anxiety palace.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 My own palace too. Okay.

Speaker 2 My own palace too. It's more like a haunted house.

Speaker 3 Yeah. It's when

Speaker 1 you turn on we can do a hard things.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I do. In the middle of the night.
I do. You do.

Speaker 1 What's important about it to you? Why do you listen to it? Why is it important to you, this podcast?

Speaker 4 I think because

Speaker 4 it's real and it's honest.

Speaker 4 And I think all of the topics are like aligned with the things that I care about, bringing in like the best experts in the world to like talk from their heart rather than like from their books.

Speaker 4 And I think you all do an amazing job of going beyond what's comfortable to do publicly, really. And actually, it's really hard for Tobin.
I like, well, play it in the house. And she.

Speaker 3 Oh, I can't listen to it.

Speaker 4 Can't listen to it.

Speaker 3 No offense. I love you both, but it's because I'm a seven.
So like when you guys are talking about feelings and all that, I'm like, why would anybody?

Speaker 3 I've actually not listened to any pod squads

Speaker 3 like on my own, except for Kristen's when she was on.

Speaker 2 Wasn't that fun?

Speaker 3 And that's actually the only one she hasn't listened to. So we have 100% participation in the pod squad.

Speaker 3 And she did play the, she'll do, this is really sweet of her, is that she'll actually be like, oh, you'll like this this five minutes and she'll play like five minutes of we can do our things for me on particular subjects that she knows that i will enjoy that won't be too scary yeah i love that there won't be anybody

Speaker 4 like any problem yeah i'm always

Speaker 3 i'm always like can you please put your headphones in

Speaker 1 tobin i understand that i do that with music i listen to talk a lot i'll listen to some news from some shit on the radio because music does that to me like it makes me too achy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I turn on Adele or like Sarah McLaughlin and she's like, let it offer.

Speaker 1 There's certain people like Stevie Nicks, like I can't, their voices make me want to crack open. And I am like, well, you have to warn me.
I can't.

Speaker 4 Oh, I'm all in for any form of entertainment that will crack me open. Like all the people you just named, that's like exactly my music genre.
I like sad shows. I love to cry watching TV.

Speaker 4 I just want it all.

Speaker 2 Same.

Speaker 4 That's why I'm a very proud pod squatter i'm like tell me all your problems and i just will cry right with you and it feels so good yeah i just you guys are doing amazing yeah

Speaker 3 like it's really incredible

Speaker 3 i i don't know if people tell you that i'm sure people tell you that like a thousand times a day but we're gonna tell you it

Speaker 2 we really we feel

Speaker 2 everything that you brought into our life like i said earlier on and you said it too tobin I really hitched myself to the correct ride.

Speaker 4 Oh, please.

Speaker 1 You need to know that one of my favorite things to do during the World Cup was to watch your show

Speaker 2 and then

Speaker 2 the recap show, which was so good.

Speaker 1 I texted Kristen about this, but then I would try to memorize the things that you'd say. And then I would sit down at dinner and just say the things.

Speaker 1 And I would say all your words and I would say the lingo and I would say the defenders and all the things. And she'd be like, what the?

Speaker 2 Listen. I love that.

Speaker 3 It was like three days until I was like, I think, yeah, I think a lot of people actually

Speaker 3 did that because, you know, what we found in there was a big mission and there were kind of like mini missions in doing this, right?

Speaker 3 And where we found it to be just incredible was when all of a sudden our voices started like leading the conversation.

Speaker 3 And I think where Abby can understand a little bit more than you, Glennon, but maybe you can, when you're like in a world championship or just a professional, you hear other people talking about the thing that you're doing.

Speaker 3 And there's kind of this like disassociation with it. Like those people have no idea what they're talking about, but it's, you kind of just accept it, you know?

Speaker 3 And it was really powerful to bring in actual voices and perspectives of the people that were doing the thing and being able to actually bring in the...

Speaker 3 our culture, which I think is missing in when we speak about the thing and when we got to lead conversation. And there were some like hard conversations within that World Cup, as you know.

Speaker 3 And I was really, really proud and it

Speaker 3 really like affected kind of

Speaker 3 my mission as a whole, where I was like, this is actually really important.

Speaker 2 Really important.

Speaker 1 I remember waking up. and thinking, let's see what they say about this.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I was like,

Speaker 1 let's just, before we decide what to think, let's just check in.

Speaker 2 Well, what was cool about you guys?

Speaker 2 you know the the commentators and the those who are are talking at halftime it is their job and they are getting paid and a lot of them are all former athletes and so they are competitive as fuck so they want to be the best at what they're doing and they all know in order to get re-upped for their contract they got to say some

Speaker 2 and so it is not as it appears they are not always speaking truth they are speaking their perception of the truth so that

Speaker 2 it can get clickbait and all that. You guys brought a totally different

Speaker 2 perspective

Speaker 2 of not only having the ability inside of it, but also it felt like you guys were able to draw back a little bit, which I found so important.

Speaker 2 And I think it is a lost art or maybe never has been an art in the commentating world.

Speaker 2 There's so many things that are going on and so many complications. And of course, we're all fans, but nobody like the commentators that they got asked a question.
They got to respond in the moment.

Speaker 2 And I'm not excusing them. They're just doing their job.
And I just thought it was really awesome what you two did. And we, we definitely waited because I was like, I just can't wait.
Because

Speaker 2 I wanted to just get online and just be like, shut up, you know.

Speaker 3 But it's like everyone, everyone thinks that that's the truth, right? There's three people that are talking about this like huge thing that's happening.

Speaker 3 And for most people, they're not super educated in what's actually happening. So then they're just through that lens, they're just saying those things.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I feel like I had a really interesting experience because I'm not a sports fan. So I literally never hear anyone talk about sports.

Speaker 4 I don't watch any sports at all on the television. Like, wow,

Speaker 3 then why in the world did I think I should talk about sports?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 4 I was brought on last minute to this show, but part of it was I think that the sports world that I like grew up watching, I didn't think it was built for me.

Speaker 4 And so it felt really important every single time Tobin was like doing the creative for the show that I would like tie it to something that I cared about, which I think just made it more generalizable.

Speaker 4 And I think like a lot of women have felt that the sports house isn't built for them. So just us.

Speaker 4 having our two different personalities allowed us to be able to speak differently to different people. And I think that was really important.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It feels like listening to the commentators on the TV that there is nothing sacred about it to them.

Speaker 1 That it's all monetized. It's all, I will say the thing that's the most inflammatory.
So that I, and with you two, it is clear that soccer is sacred to you. It's great.

Speaker 1 And it's so interesting and true, but there's something so, which just, you just trust you so much. Are you going to do the Olympics too?

Speaker 2 Are you going to keep doing it? Oh, yeah. Okay.

Speaker 4 Share about the next iterations. Yeah.

Speaker 3 We have big plans for 2024, but really kind of franchising what the recap show is and bringing it to different temple movements and different sports and competitions because part of the mission was to never take a spotlight off what women's sports are and to try to lead kind of conversation of what like content creation can look like for women's sports.

Speaker 1 So like you'll do your show, but with different sports. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. All the different people.

Speaker 3 And different people. And different people.

Speaker 1 And different people.

Speaker 4 Soccer is as far as I go. Okay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 So they're going to call in other people. Hold on a second.

Speaker 3 Of all people, Kristen could probably transition to other sports. Yes.

Speaker 1 No, but let's not do that to her.

Speaker 1 Because then she'll have to become the best at it. And then she'll be so tired.

Speaker 2 No, listen, I think what you said earlier, though, Kristen, is really important.

Speaker 2 And it's something that when I'm watching the sports now with Glennon, it's important for me to know that her perspective and the way that she's experiencing it is totally different than mine.

Speaker 2 And there's 50%,

Speaker 2 probably more, of the people who are watching whatever sport you're watching, especially women's sports, that are watching it in your way.

Speaker 2 So, like, don't count yourself out because who wouldn't want to listen to Glennon Doyle commentate on a soccer game right now?

Speaker 1 Yeah. A lot of people.
I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 I was.

Speaker 2 I would actually.

Speaker 4 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2 It's hilarious.

Speaker 4 I mean, Glennon, you taught me what offside was.

Speaker 3 This is the link up.

Speaker 3 Always has been

Speaker 1 oh, I which I would die for Kristen Kress. There's no, it's always been this way.
This is how from the very beginning. I knew from the first time I saw her running around on the field.

Speaker 3 Yeah, how did you know, Clennam?

Speaker 1 Because you can tell when she's playing. Before I knew who she was, before I knew, I could tell on the field, she's spirit spice.

Speaker 2 She's just,

Speaker 1 there's something about your feet are flailing about and she's floating along like a graceful swan. And then bam.

Speaker 1 I knew from the beginning. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Please allow us to come alongside you with all of these ventures. We believe so much in what you're doing.
This pod squad is full of people who would like to

Speaker 1 listen. Just tell us what you're doing.

Speaker 1 Let us know all the things because we want to support everything you do. We just think it's so important and we adore you too.

Speaker 4 Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 So sweet. Thank you for this hour.

Speaker 4 I'm so happy to hang. What a joy.

Speaker 2 Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 The double dates aren't that bad. What a joy.

Speaker 2 Tobin has now experienced her first first we can do hard things episode besides christening

Speaker 1 in short was she not amazing on that episode

Speaker 2 i have listened to that episode five times it's it fixed people it fixed

Speaker 2 it healed people

Speaker 2 yeah that's when i feel like she kind of transcends i don't even know if she knew what she was saying you know oh my god yeah i cried during the episode it like helped heal my fear of death like you just yeah you changed you changed my life for sure yeah thank you we love you both

Speaker 1 Pod squad, we will see you here next time.

Speaker 4 Tell Amanda I said hi.

Speaker 2 I will.

Speaker 1 If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Speaker 1 Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

Speaker 1 To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

Speaker 1 This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

Speaker 1 We appreciate you very much.

Speaker 1 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Speaker 1 Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.