What Glennon Saw at LA Protests & Immigration Court with Lillian Aponte Miranda

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Speaker 2 Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.

Speaker 2 We are about to take a journey together of a really beautiful, beautiful episode where Glennon is talking about her recent experience at the LA protests, ICE out of LA, and the really

Speaker 2 beautiful display of humanity that she saw there. And we are also talking to

Speaker 2 a dear friend and hero named Lillian from the Florence Project, where you will find out a lot about the impact on children of what ICE is doing now and how you

Speaker 2 and we and Lillian are showing up for them. So please don't miss this.

Speaker 2 We wanted to take a minute at the top to say thank you, thank you, thank you for your love and support of the Calm News shows that we were doing with Jessica Yalen.

Speaker 2 And we are so grateful for how much you love them and we are so grateful for Jessica for investing so much time and brilliance.

Speaker 2 into us and to walking us through those first hundred days of Trump administration that felt like 100,000 days of the Trump administration. Jessica is working overtime at News Not Noise

Speaker 2 and we're just so grateful she showed up for us for so long and we want to assure you We Can Do Hard Things community that Glennon, Abby, and I are going to keep showing up.

Speaker 2 to walk with you through what is happening in the world.

Speaker 2 And we just wanted to let you know on this episode episode where we're talking about important, timely, impactful things that we are going to keep showing up and we are going to stay committed to following and staying engaged and letting you know what you need to know.

Speaker 2 In

Speaker 2 a news world that feels overwhelming and polarized and sensationalized, we are committed to making sure that we are doing the opposite.

Speaker 2 And I feel like right now, there are so many people that feel like they can't follow the news because their mental health is suffering. And if you are thinking that, what we want to tell you is that

Speaker 2 perhaps you are using a lot of your emotional resources to avoid the reality of what is happening. And

Speaker 2 that might not actually be helping you. Because if you're thinking, I can't watch the news because I can't take it.

Speaker 2 I think that you're taking it either way, but you're taking it in a way that might leave leave you depleted and defeated instead of empowered and energized.

Speaker 2 So what we want to do when we are focused on what's happening in the world is we want you not to have to choose between staying emotionally grounded and staying responsibly informed.

Speaker 2 We think that staying responsibly informed is what will help you stay emotionally grounded and it is what the world needs right now.

Speaker 2 So we will keep showing up for these moments and we promise to have clarity, courage, and content over panic, integrity over ideology, analysis over anxiety, and critical thinking over clickbait.

Speaker 2 That is what we're going to do and we're going to do it together. So stay tuned in.
Stay listened to this beautiful conversation and keep coming back because we can do hard things together.

Speaker 4 Can I just say one thing before this goes away? Yes. I just am so grateful to you, sister, and you, Glennon,

Speaker 4 for showing up in this time. These calm news episodes, not only have they informed and educated me, but they've made me feel less crazy.

Speaker 4 And so I just want to say, and I think I'm speaking for everybody listening, that

Speaker 3 I don't know the stuff that you know.

Speaker 4 And it is so important

Speaker 4 that the correct information is getting put out into the world so that we can all go out into the streets and protest with the correct information at hand. So thank you for the work that you're doing.

Speaker 4 It is changing lives, it's saving lives, and it's so important.

Speaker 3 Agreed.

Speaker 3 Let's do it. Let's jump in now.

Speaker 3 Okay,

Speaker 3 Pod Squad. Hi.
Hi.

Speaker 3 I'm feeling differently about our title of our podcast these days.

Speaker 3 We are in the middle of and

Speaker 3 in store for many hard things in this country. And

Speaker 3 right now we are in our basement in our home in Los Angeles.

Speaker 3 A lot is going on in Los Angeles right now. One is that, as we know, The ICE raids have been relentless and ICE is taking people from their homes.
They're taking people from their workplaces.

Speaker 3 They're waiting at schools. They're taking kids.
They're taking people indiscriminately, really.

Speaker 3 And that has not gone over well in Los Angeles because Los Angeles cares deeply about our immigrant community. They are our community.

Speaker 3 And so the protests here have been

Speaker 3 nightly.

Speaker 3 People have been showing up

Speaker 3 in big numbers. And I am so moved by all of that.

Speaker 3 I'm in this place where

Speaker 3 I think there's this quote from this guy, I think it was a journalism teacher named Jonathan Foster. And he said,

Speaker 3 when one group tells you it's dry outside and another group tells you it's pouring outside, your job is not to quote both of them. Your job is to look out the fucking window.

Speaker 3 And I think right now,

Speaker 3 as fascism rises in this country, and please understand that that that is what's happening this is not a drill it is happening just an hour ago senator alex padilla was pulled off during a press conference with the department of homeland security asked a question and was handcuffed and pulled out of the room for asking a question for challenging this regime and that is going to continue and it's going to be relentless anyway I went to the protests because I always want to be at protests, but also because

Speaker 3 I don't believe anything I don't see with my eyeballs anymore. I feel like now

Speaker 3 as propaganda rises and as the truth is suppressed, which is a hallmark of fascism,

Speaker 3 we have got to look out the window. We have got to get our bodies in places where we can actually see the truth of what is happening.
And when I went to that protest in LA, I can tell you what I saw.

Speaker 3 I joined a group of thousands of people

Speaker 3 holding signs, singing,

Speaker 3 chanting, no hate, no fear, immigrants are welcome here,

Speaker 3 dragging wagons full of water bottles and protein bars, handing them out to strangers. Thank yous, thank yous, thank yous in every different languages.

Speaker 3 Five-year-olds holding signs while the thousands of people kind of made pockets for them just to protect the little kids so that they could walk any way they wanted.

Speaker 2 It was beautiful.

Speaker 3 And not for one moment moment did I feel unsafe. In fact, and I was telling my son this after we got home, it was the first time I have felt safe in a long time

Speaker 3 because I felt like, oh, here are all the people who care and are being good to each other and are actually in these streets standing up for America, standing up for American values, saying no to fascism and wanting to protect their neighbors.

Speaker 3 I felt so safe. And then

Speaker 3 there was a moment where, because disruption is the point,

Speaker 3 the group, our group, was crossing the highway and traffic had to stop, which was the point. And I expected the people in the cars to be annoyed because I would be annoyed.

Speaker 4 Well, we do live in LA also.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, because they're getting played. They're trying to go somewhere.
They didn't come to the protest. They're just trying to go to work or whatever.
These people

Speaker 3 poured out of their cars.

Speaker 3 They were cheering for us. They were taking pictures.
One couple got out of their car and started dancing around their car and then on top of their car with us. I was crying.
It was beautiful.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 out of nowhere came tanks,

Speaker 3 tank after tank after tank.

Speaker 3 Soldiers or cops. I don't know whether they were LAPD or the National Guard at this point, but they were in riot gear.
They were pointing their guns directly at us.

Speaker 3 I'm telling you, nothing was happening. I did not see a moment of violence.
There was no reason for

Speaker 3 the guns to be pointed at us, but they were.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I don't know what went down hours after that. We left about an hour after the guns were pulled on us.
I know how I felt. when the guns were pulled.

Speaker 3 I know how I felt before the guns were pulled, which was hopeful, peaceful, inspired, grateful,

Speaker 3 in love with Los Angeles and my country.

Speaker 3 When those guns were pulled on us, something in me

Speaker 3 that I recognize as, I don't know, it was fearful. I was rageful.
I was so angry.

Speaker 3 I don't know what happened after. I just know what I felt.
And I know that none of it was happening before the police showed up. Last night, one of our children went to another protest

Speaker 3 and experienced the exact same thing, marching, chanting, beauty, and then out of the absolute blue.

Speaker 3 He was right in the front. Nothing had gone down at all.

Speaker 3 Horses, police officers, there were rubber bullets at his feet. People were trampled by horses.
People were smashed. He saw this with his eyes.
That's why I'm reporting it.

Speaker 3 People were smashed between cars and horses.

Speaker 4 nothing had happened before that and they were shooting people from the horses with rubber bullets and he could two feet there were rubber bullets at his feet he could see them with his own eyes so look

Speaker 3 all i'm telling you is if you are not looking out the window right now if we sit in our houses and hide and we are we are judging what's happening out in our country by what's on our tv that we are fucked

Speaker 3 now

Speaker 3 speaking of

Speaker 3 immigrants and care and love for immigrants, we are not in the basement alone, which I think should be some sort of metaphor at this point.

Speaker 3 But we are in our basement, in our home, with someone who has become very important to me and my life.

Speaker 3 And I think is actually someone who is very important to American life and has been for a long time, but right now more than ever. Her name is Lillian Aponte Miranda.

Speaker 3 She is the executive director of the Florence Project, where she has served since 2014 in roles including staff attorney, pro bono mentor, children's program manager, and co-executive director.

Speaker 3 She became the sole executive director in 2023. And before joining the Florence Project, Lillian was an associate professor of law at Florida International University.

Speaker 3 I didn't even know that until I read your bio, Lillian. You're so fancy.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 Where for over a decade, she taught courses on international human rights, Indigenous peoples' rights, and civil procedure, among others. Now, what I want to say about Lillian is this, Pod Squad.

Speaker 3 You will discover this yourself in a second. She is fierce.
She is brilliant.

Speaker 3 She is relentless in her advocacy. And she is a

Speaker 3 goddamn delight. Like, if the revolution must be irresistible, Lillian is the irresistible revolution.
I want to protest with her.

Speaker 3 I want to organize with her, but I also want to have slumber parties with her.

Speaker 5 So that's what we're doing tonight, actually.

Speaker 5 Hi, Lillian. Hi, Glennon.
And I'm here for it all.

Speaker 3 I'm here for it all. I'm here for it all.
How are you doing?

Speaker 5 How am I doing? Let me take a minute to settle into that question.

Speaker 5 You know, as I was getting ready to come here and I was in the plane and I was thinking about being with all all of you, I felt really emotional, to be honest.

Speaker 5 I have seen obviously what has been happening in the last several days. My heart has been heavy.
I have been also with my staff at the Florence Project. I have been

Speaker 5 amidst our clients and what our clients are also experiencing.

Speaker 5 And in the midst of all that though, I was also comforted, to be honest, that I was going to be here with all of you today and that I was going to be in conversation with all of you.

Speaker 5 I think that I'm finding comfort in being able to share this moment and this space with people at this time who want to be in this space, who want to see out the window, see what's going on,

Speaker 5 and

Speaker 5 be in conversation together. And so

Speaker 5 My heart has heaviness in it, and yet I feel also comforted at the same time.

Speaker 5 and so I'm arriving that way

Speaker 5 here with all of you

Speaker 3 let's tell them Lillian how we met

Speaker 3 okay this is how we can tell this story I think

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 we have discussed that

Speaker 3 for a while after the election Amanda and Abby and I were in different modes of fight flight or freeze like sister was fighting Abby was flighting with lots of baby highland cows

Speaker 4 you want to say more about that babe yeah baby highland cow videos has been the thing that has sustained me since november and i'm now ready to put the phone down and get into the streets and start doing the work okay great so the cows are good cows are fine okay cows are gonna be fine and the cows the cows will continue to be fine okay but honey it's good that you were looking out for them for a while i know okay all right they are fucking cute yeah they are And I was in freeze.

Speaker 3 I just was frozen. I could not get my brain to focus.

Speaker 3 I felt like when I was little playing hide and seek with my cousins, and I would just hide in the closet and then I would pee in my pants because I was so scared. And that's what I did every time.

Speaker 3 Okay. Every time, hide, pee in my pants.
And then I realized no one's making me stay in the closet.

Speaker 3 If I just bust out and yell, I am here,

Speaker 3 I don't want to pee in my pants as much. So that's what I'm doing now.
I am not in the closet peeing in my pants. I am now here out of the closet.

Speaker 4 So, I mean, you might have some depends on when we go out.

Speaker 3 And that's fine. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 kind of got brought out of the closet by an email that I received that was from a woman, I think from Florence Project.

Speaker 3 And she sent me an email and she said, Glennon, I know that you care about immigrant children and I need you to come to this meeting tomorrow.

Speaker 3 On the meeting was Lillian, several people, several brilliant, amazing people who work for places like Florence, organizations who are showing up to protect not only immigrant children, but all immigrants.

Speaker 3 So can you tell us, Lillian, why were we at that meeting? What was happening in the world? Why did you guys decide to have that meeting?

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 5 A lot has happened in the world in the last, you know, several months. And when we were having that meeting, as an organization, we were experiencing several things at once.

Speaker 5 Like other organizations like us, we were seeing, obviously with the change in administration, a lot of different actions happening on the ground that were deeply impacting our communities, deeply impacting our work.

Speaker 5 And at the same time that we were experiencing a more critical need than ever. for the work that we do.
We were also experiencing federal cuts to our work.

Speaker 5 We were experiencing seeing programs that have been in place being dismantled.

Speaker 5 And at the juncture of those two things, we found ourselves really needing to be in conversation and in community with everyone about what is really happening right now.

Speaker 5 And so I'm part of also a larger network of organizations. The Florence Project.

Speaker 5 exists in Arizona and we do our work in Arizona and we provide free legal and social services to people in immigration detention, including children that are in immigration detention.

Speaker 5 But we have sister organizations across the country that also do that work.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 all of us were experiencing this moment of dual challenge, both to the work that we were doing on the ground and the very needed

Speaker 5 showing up of protection of rights and also facing real challenges to our organizational sustainability and our ability to continue to do that work day in, day out, and to continue to show up to do that work and accompany the people that we accompany every day.

Speaker 5 And so we decided to put together a webinar, informational webinar, because I think it, for a lot of people, I don't know that they necessarily know what is happening on the day-to-day.

Speaker 5 And so, for example, one of the things that is happening on the day-to-day is that because there is no public defender system, for immigration removal proceedings, people generally have to represent themselves.

Speaker 5 And that includes children. So that can include a child that is as young as two years old.

Speaker 5 And so organizations like ours come in to fill that gap and provide free legal and social services to individuals and children who have to appear in court and face a really complex immigration removal process.

Speaker 5 And at the time that this was happening, The funding that has been there for years as part of what's called the Unaccompanied Children Program was being dismantled and was being terminated.

Speaker 5 And we really needed to bring this forward to our community and to really say,

Speaker 5 we need to really pay attention to what's at stake here. We really need to understand the moment that we're in.

Speaker 5 We're about to face seeing children appear in court, potentially alone, sitting at a table, going up against a government prosecutor, facing the full force of the government without anybody by their side.

Speaker 5 And I

Speaker 3 know

Speaker 5 that there are people in this country who care about that.

Speaker 5 And this is a moment where we have to bring that to light.

Speaker 5 We have to sit and look out the window, sit and see what's happening in the courtroom down the street and ask what it is ours to do at this time. This is bigger than any one of us.

Speaker 5 It's bigger than any one organization. It's bigger than any one space in this ecosystem that we're in.
And we all have to find the ways in which we show up right now to meet this moment.

Speaker 5 And so I was grateful, Glennon, when you answered that email

Speaker 5 and you showed up and you showed up.

Speaker 5 And I think the response that you sent right after that meeting, and it was to my colleague Agabi, who had reached out to you, you said, I am here for whatever's needed.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I can't tell you what that meant in that moment.

Speaker 5 And when, you know, we reached back out to you and we showed up on a video call the next day, from the moment I saw you sitting across from me, I felt comforted. And I just trusted.

Speaker 5 I trusted that moment. And I trusted that whatever came from it would be something that is.
beyond you and me.

Speaker 5 And so I'm so grateful that we're still here.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I felt the same way. I was on that webinar and Tish was silently off the screen, just spying, listening.
And as soon as we got off, I said, what did you think?

Speaker 3 And she said, I think that you should follow that Lillian wherever she tells you to go.

Speaker 3 I was like, I also think that, which is funny, but also is what people should be doing.

Speaker 3 There are so many lanes right now and people should find a hero and do whatever the hell they, because there are people like Lillian in every lane right now who have been doing the work every single day not just are not figuring it out right now

Speaker 3 so we get in their boat and we do what they tell us to do

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Speaker 3 Amanda, would you mind before we go on giving the pod squad some context for how we knew Florence?

Speaker 2 Actually, for those who are listening that have been with us for a long time, you already have been following Florence, whether you're aware of it or not.

Speaker 2 So they're one of your identified heroes, whether consciously or not.

Speaker 2 So when back in the original zero tolerance policy under the first Trump administration, when we became aware as a nation that parents and children were being separated and babies were being ripped out of their parents' arms at the border under Family Separation 1.0,

Speaker 2 That is when Together Rising decided to step up in a big way into that space.

Speaker 2 And so this community of pod squatters and folks who were deeply committed to Together Rising showed up in such massive ways that we raised $12,092,000.

Speaker 2 And every penny that we raised went out the door to organizations to find separated families, represent children who were left unaccompanied and without care to reunite them, to give them the social and care that they needed and their physical needs as well, including a lot of advocacy for unaccompanied and detained children.

Speaker 2 So actually,

Speaker 2 that was

Speaker 2 seven years ago, eight years ago.

Speaker 2 And the very first grant that we made in that whole process of finding organizations doing this best work was actually to Florence Project because you were working with children who had been separated from their families and were

Speaker 2 now

Speaker 2 by themselves, detained, needing representation and care. And so you were the first organization that we identified and granted to.

Speaker 2 So it seemed both tragic that you were still in the trenches doing this work every day and also very appropriate to know that you were still there.

Speaker 2 You were still there working for these kids. When, in all honesty,

Speaker 2 that crisis came across a lot of our minds and broke our hearts. And then minds, as they do, move on to another crisis in your own life or in the nation.

Speaker 2 And with these flood of constant dehumanization that we're seeing, it wasn't at the top, I think, of a lot of our radar, that this was still happening and happening anew.

Speaker 2 So anyway, you have always been there, and we're deeply grateful for the work that you're doing when people are paying attention and when they're not.

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 2 So thank you.

Speaker 3 So we go to the meeting.

Speaker 3 Then we start zooming.

Speaker 5 We do.

Speaker 3 We start zooming and zooming. We do.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 you

Speaker 3 ask me if I will come to what?

Speaker 5 Yes. So I asked if you would come see

Speaker 5 immigration court docket for unaccompanied detained children.

Speaker 5 And so these are children who are in immigration shelter detention,

Speaker 3 who are

Speaker 5 there alone without a parent or legal guardian.

Speaker 5 who are potentially in the process of being reunified and who are still in immigration removal proceedings and

Speaker 5 have to appear in immigration court.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I was so hopeful that you would come. And you got a lot of your plate.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 5 I was hopeful, but also understanding if that couldn't happen. And you said, yes,

Speaker 5 I will be there. And you said, can I bring Abby? I'm like, yes.

Speaker 3 Yes, please. Abby doesn't allow unaccompanied Glennon.
Okay. Yeah.
I'm like the support blankie.

Speaker 5 I mean, honestly, I love that. And just having both of you there meant the world.
It really did. And I think that's where, you know, something that can be kind of abstract

Speaker 5 becomes very real.

Speaker 5 And something that can kind of be of the imagination becomes very palpable.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I think when you witness something yourself,

Speaker 5 when you

Speaker 5 see things with your own eyes,

Speaker 5 when you

Speaker 5 share a space that in many ways calls on

Speaker 5 the sacred humanity that we share,

Speaker 5 there is no choice but to speak.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 5 am grateful that both of you were there.

Speaker 5 And I know that even though that's not necessarily possible for everyone, for those of us who do have both the privilege and responsibility of being able to see,

Speaker 5 then it's also time to speak.

Speaker 5 And I'm curious how you experienced that moment.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 so how I would say it right now is when people are seeing on the news all of these

Speaker 3 immigrants being taken by ICE. Then the next question is, where are the children?

Speaker 3 Okay, where are all the children of these people?

Speaker 3 So what I learned and saw with my own eyes is that these children in many different ways are being taken to detention centers in every state. This is not just happening in LA.
This is in every state.

Speaker 3 Because of

Speaker 3 the levels of cruelty, it's not just the ice raids, it's the cuts that Lillian was talking about.

Speaker 3 The funds that have always been provided to make sure that children on our soil are cared for in the most basic ways have been taken. Instituted by the Bush administration.
Right.

Speaker 3 The Bush administration said we should take care of them.

Speaker 2 This is not a woke agenda. This is

Speaker 2 basics.

Speaker 3 So even the advocacy that the kids would have once they'd get to the detention centers, which places like Florence do in every state, that isn't happening because there's no money for advocacy.

Speaker 3 What we went to was

Speaker 3 a court hearing

Speaker 3 in Arizona in children's immigration court.

Speaker 3 We sat in a courtroom and watched child after child.

Speaker 3 The oldest one was maybe 14.

Speaker 3 The youngest one was two.

Speaker 3 We watched them be walked into the courtroom. Now I want you to picture a courtroom, you know, just it looks like how you'd see it on TV.
Benches, a bunch of benches.

Speaker 3 Then two tables up front on the left where we were would be the child. Okay, so now I want you to picture, we watched a two-year-old whose legs couldn't even, he couldn't even barely see.

Speaker 3 His little legs were flapping. They sat him down in the chair to face the judge.
The judge was a large man in a long black robe with a huge seal, an eagle holding arrows behind him.

Speaker 3 This is a very intimidating room.

Speaker 3 The table next to the child was a

Speaker 3 Homeland Security ICE.

Speaker 5 Government prosecutor.

Speaker 3 Government prosecutor.

Speaker 3 So in this room, this child does not know where his family is. This child does not know where he is.

Speaker 3 We went to Florence after, and one of the people at Florence told me that when they finally do get to these kids, many of them do not believe they're in America because they've been told that when they get to America, people will be kind and people will be safe.

Speaker 3 And so they don't think they're in America. They're shocked when they are told they're there.
This child had no idea what was going on, where he was, where his parents were.

Speaker 3 He didn't speak the language. They put tiny little earphones over his head.
And the judge started saying to this child, do you understand what's going on?

Speaker 3 Do you understand what this proceeding is about? It was the most most heartbreaking thing I've ever seen. We watched a little 12-year-old girl.
I'm making up her age.

Speaker 3 I don't know if she, maybe she was 13. She couldn't have been older than 13, but she was clearly had some developmental delays.
They walked her into the courtroom.

Speaker 3 She sat down by herself at the table. She had these precious little rainbow clips in her hair.
I was, because I was looking at her from the back.

Speaker 3 And the judge went through a ton of stuff I didn't understand and was just saying to her.

Speaker 3 At one point, he stopped and he said, Do you have anything to say?

Speaker 3 And she got very quiet and looked up at the judge and she said,

Speaker 3 I am suffering.

Speaker 3 Where is my mother?

Speaker 3 Please tell me where my mother is.

Speaker 2 I remember

Speaker 3 looking at

Speaker 3 the judge and watching him get so frustrated with her.

Speaker 3 I remember later hearing from you, from a lot of the people at Florence, that he was the nice one.

Speaker 3 I remember looking at him and thinking how cut off from his own humanity he had to be because of this system, that he couldn't offer comfort to these children. He was so cut off from his own humanity.

Speaker 3 The translator, who was also, I think, the court reporter, kept having to stand up and leave the room, which very frustrated me so much at first, I didn't understand what was happening.

Speaker 3 Turns out she had to keep standing up and leaving because she was bawling. She was crying out in the waiting room because she was looking at these children who were so terrified.

Speaker 3 And this whole court proceeding was so insane and so cruel.

Speaker 3 And it is while what while what you're watching on the news is happening, this is what is happening to the children. So when the adults cannot get their shit together,

Speaker 3 The children are the ones who are suffering.

Speaker 4 And let's remember that this was like the first proceeding of what will be many more to come. So

Speaker 4 the judge basically then says,

Speaker 4 not only do you have any questions, and these are children. They have no idea what's going on.
They try to understand, but they're still kids. They don't understand.

Speaker 4 He then says, find a lawyer. And if you want to find a lawyer, there's information outside on the bulletin board and there's nothing.

Speaker 3 And these kids are two.

Speaker 4 And they're two years old. Like, how are they expected to represent themselves? How are they expected to pay for any kind of representation?

Speaker 4 And then they're sent back to these detention centers by themselves

Speaker 4 and told to come back in four months. That's when the next time that they'll get to be heard in front of a judge for God knows what they're going to need to be prepared for.
It's so fucking absurd.

Speaker 4 It was so infuriating.

Speaker 4 When I was sitting there, the inside of my mouth was chewed up because because I was like biting my cheek so hard because I was forcing myself not to weep in front of these kids because I felt like that would scare them more.

Speaker 4 But that's all my body wanted to do was like rage

Speaker 4 and like stand up and go and create real problems for like the judge because he is so cut off from his humanity. I'm sure he doesn't love having to do what he has to do.

Speaker 4 It's just what you all are doing is you're providing humanity to children who the humanity in their current life is being totally stripped from them.

Speaker 4 And I think that that's really important that they have advocates and they have

Speaker 4 people who do know how to explain things to them without the funding that the fucking Trump administration has completely cut off and frozen is going to make it impossible for these kids to have any understanding what's going on.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's hell.

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Speaker 3 What else needs to be said about what's going on right now that we're missing or not saying correctly?

Speaker 5 Well, first, I want to say what you witnessed in court that day is something that,

Speaker 5 you know, is happening down the street at courthouses across the country.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 what organizations like the Florence Project do is

Speaker 5 we accompany children at every step of the way during their immigration removal proceedings.

Speaker 5 And a lot of the times, we are the first people that a child meets in immigration detention that, as you were saying, Glennon, it's like, what's happening? What's going to happen to me?

Speaker 2 Where am I?

Speaker 5 Are the first people that actually have the ability to give some answers to children?

Speaker 5 And then when they are asked to appear in court, what organizations like us do is that we appear in court with them.

Speaker 5 either because we're providing court support as what's called friend of the court or because we have offered our full representation and we're going to be representing the child in their immigration removal proceedings.

Speaker 5 And I think I wanna say that

Speaker 5 so much will happen to a child who is in immigration detention, from arriving to a place that is foreign to them, to needing to understand what is gonna be in front of them, to the longevity of what that could look like, to then understanding if and when they may be reunified with family, to then having to at some point appear in court and potentially tell a story that usually carries with it impossible choices that were made and trauma.

Speaker 5 And I want us to really consider what it looks like to see a child do that alone

Speaker 5 and to sit with that for a second. I have two kids myself.
And sometimes I, you know, I straddle worlds. You know, I drop off my children at school.
I go to their soccer games.

Speaker 5 I get to tuck them in at night. I

Speaker 5 get to watch shows they want to watch and I don't.

Speaker 5 And then I also get to walk into immigration children detention centers and I get to sit across a child who

Speaker 5 is asking, will I be reunified with my mom?

Speaker 5 What's going to happen? And a lot of times when we tell children that we try to explain as best as we can what this process looks like and that it may take time.

Speaker 5 I have heard children say back to me, I will do it. I will do do it.
I have my brother back home. I have my sister back home.

Speaker 3 I have my mom back home.

Speaker 5 I will do it.

Speaker 2 What do you mean when you say I will do it? What are they referring to?

Speaker 5 I will sit in immigration detention for how long I need to. I will face whatever system is here.
I will tell my story.

Speaker 5 I will go on in any way that is required of me because either I cannot go back or because there are other loved ones that are in some way depending on me.

Speaker 3 God.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 5 have sat in many a room with a child who has said that.

Speaker 5 And that's something I want people to know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was thinking a lot about the impossible. There's so many different ways that these kids end up alone, but

Speaker 3 the impossible

Speaker 3 and heroic

Speaker 3 decision

Speaker 3 to send your baby, who you love every bit as much as we love our babies, away

Speaker 3 because that is the only hope that you can see for them, to sacrifice your time with your child, your life with your child, who you want to keep close more than anything, because you believe, because of the place you were born in, because you believe that the only hope for them to have peace is to sacrifice your life with them.

Speaker 3 I can only hope that I would ever be that brave.

Speaker 3 I can imagine that if I were brave enough to do that and I was left behind and sent my child ahead, that I would spend every single night in bed praying

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 a bunch of parents

Speaker 3 in the other place

Speaker 3 would care enough to show up. for my child and

Speaker 3 do whatever it took to protect my child who I am no longer able to protect. And that was the honor of being in that courtroom.
It's just

Speaker 3 okay.

Speaker 2 And that, by the way, has been the promise of our entire nation. I mean, Glennon and I are in America.

Speaker 3 Because our great, great, great, great grandmother

Speaker 2 was brave enough to do exactly that.

Speaker 2 Our great, great, great grandfather was an unaccompanied miner

Speaker 2 on a ship

Speaker 2 to America because his whole family was dying of famine in Ireland. And he was eight.

Speaker 2 And they put him on a ship because they thought,

Speaker 2 As much as we love this kid, our love propels us to have him leave us and go to America where he will be safe and will be fed and will be able to have a life.

Speaker 2 And so, for anyone doing cognitive dissonance, thinking

Speaker 2 that someone did something wrong, I mean, this is the only reason that I exist.

Speaker 2 Yeah. This is the only reason Glennon exists.
This has been what we have heralded as courage and resilience and fortitude until the people were brown.

Speaker 3 That's right.

Speaker 3 That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 And, you know,

Speaker 3 nobody here, and Lily and I have talked ad nauseum, about no one here is saying it's simple. Right.
There's a lot to be sorted. We are adults.
We are grown-ups.

Speaker 3 We are the wealthiest nation in the world. Like we can figure this out.

Speaker 3 While we are figuring this out,

Speaker 3 The children must be cared for. This is the measure of any country or human being is how they treat children.
And we are failing.

Speaker 3 So then we decided this was all happening. We went to immigration court, I think, a week or two weeks before the tour started.

Speaker 4 The weekend before.

Speaker 3 Okay. Three days.
The We Can Do Hard Things tour. And for anyone who showed up at that tour, you know that at each event, we announced that.

Speaker 3 So we got together with Lillian. Lillian introduced us to the network because there's Florence's in every state.
There's groups that are protecting these babies.

Speaker 3 And I want to say one thing that Lillian said to me, which is when I really knew that I would follow her anywhere.

Speaker 3 I came to a meeting. I said, We want to give all of the money we would have made from the tour to

Speaker 3 you and Florence. We want to give every penny that we would have made from the tickets.
We want to give every penny we would have made from the march to Florence. She said two things.

Speaker 3 First of all, she said no,

Speaker 3 which which I thought was weird.

Speaker 3 She said,

Speaker 3 tell us why you said no.

Speaker 5 Oh my goodness. You know, when I look out at the world right now

Speaker 5 and when I see out the window,

Speaker 5 what I see are

Speaker 5 a lot of organizations like us

Speaker 5 doing this work every day. and organizations like us that have been doing this work for years and years and years.

Speaker 5 And what I see are not just the children in our courtroom, but I see the children in all the courtrooms.

Speaker 5 And what I see are people

Speaker 5 with the generosity of spirit that you have, Glennon, and so many others.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 in that moment, I think, and in every moment,

Speaker 5 when we look out as what is bigger than any one of us, I think what's important is to then

Speaker 5 give to that abundance.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 what I think about is

Speaker 5 who needs someone by their side at a critical moment in time.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 right now, I think one of the ways we can reorient ourselves is to look at the vastness out the window and understand not only what it is ours to do, what it is ours to do in community, what it is ours to do in deep embrace, what it is ours to do as an extension of each other, and to trust that.

Speaker 5 Because

Speaker 5 I believe that in that way,

Speaker 5 we will then be meeting the moment that we need to meet in every courtroom with every child. And so I'm not the only one, by the way, who is in this space.

Speaker 5 I know our sister organizations, the spaces that we're in, we are looking at each other and asking,

Speaker 5 how do we meet this moment also together right now? And I think it's so important for us to

Speaker 5 step outside sometimes of a mold that maybe we have been in around,

Speaker 5 you know, the only way to potentially ensure something that sounds like survival is through

Speaker 3 our own need

Speaker 5 and to understand that

Speaker 5 we will survive if we all survive. Yeah.
And we will meet this moment if we all can show up. And by the way, we're figuring this out.
You know, this is not something

Speaker 5 that

Speaker 5 I think anybody has a playbook for for or that we necessarily know exactly how to do.

Speaker 5 And I think we're in a space where we can trust ourselves to try something.

Speaker 3 And stay together.

Speaker 5 Stay together while we do that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, because Lillian said, that's great, but I want the money to go to all the sister organizations. So we got together with some amazing people from Acacia

Speaker 3 and the network of Florence-like organizations in every state.

Speaker 2 I think it's like 127 organizations throughout.

Speaker 3 Right. Right.

Speaker 5 And we do have some legal landscape deserts out in the United States where some of this work is more difficult to access at the network level, but we continue to try to meet the need on the ground.

Speaker 5 But yes, this network, this...

Speaker 5 honestly, amazing network of organizations and advocates and people who care deeply about this work is out there and has been there for years and years.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 seeing the potential of that network being dismantled and knowing what it can mean is something that I think we all need to take stock of.

Speaker 5 And right now, you know, as we kind of look out again at that space, we have to understand that there are multiple things happening at once, as you were saying, this is complex, right?

Speaker 5 And what's really challenging about this moment is that while we're seeing in many ways, the externalization of migration beyond our borders with beyond our eyes and ears, there's also an interior targeting of our immigrant communities, leading to some of the things that we all deeply care about, like families being separated and seeing family unity being attacked.

Speaker 5 And at the same time that that is happening, let us be clear that the organizations, network, and systems that have been there to serve as guardrails at a moment in time like this is also simultaneously being dismantled.

Speaker 5 And so all of that is happening at once. All of that is happening at once.
And so when we start to see

Speaker 5 at the same time that the challenges are happening to people we care and love and communities that are our neighbors, our friends, and at the same time,

Speaker 5 the systems and the people that are there to protect and have guardrails also being dismantled, we should be alarmed.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Really quick, I just would love the listener to get a real understanding of what it would look like for the funding to continue to get cut off for the financial worlds of all of these networking these organizations around the country to get less and less money what happens to these kids right

Speaker 5 so

Speaker 5 right now there are approximately 26 000 children across the country

Speaker 5 that have an attorney standing by their side and who have the ability to have meaningful access to counsel as they engage in what oftentimes has been called one of the most complex proceedings in our legal system.

Speaker 5 Without

Speaker 5 the

Speaker 5 resources that allow for organizations like us to be able to have the right capacity of attorneys who can provide these services, what you will literally see will be children sitting at a table in court alone.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 the magnitude of cases range into life and death circumstances for people.

Speaker 5 And I want us to be reminded of what it means to just even at a minimum have a fair day in court.

Speaker 5 What it means to have a minimum threshold of due process.

Speaker 5 How can a child have a fair day in court

Speaker 5 without an advocate by their side?

Speaker 3 The advocates who even know where their parents might be, who know even if they are going to get deported, where do they need to go?

Speaker 3 These children are getting sent to places they've never been before. They're getting sent back to places where there's no social organizations there protecting them.
Correct?

Speaker 3 It is a life or death situation.

Speaker 5 And many children and also adults are fleeing. persecution, are fleeing violence.

Speaker 5 And so when we talk about what it means for someone to walk out of an immigration court proceeding, it could mean going back to the conditions that they fled, then the impossible choices that were made around life and death.

Speaker 5 There is truth in that. And so when we think about

Speaker 5 anyone, really, and even the most vulnerable among us, a child,

Speaker 5 facing a day in court that could potentially determine that outcome without an advocate by their side, we need to ask ourselves, where have our values around just basic humanity and fairness of process gone?

Speaker 2 Not to mention compliance with international law. I mean, under international law, the right to claim asylum and be have that adjudicated.
Asylum is not a tell me your sad story.

Speaker 2 It's a very particular, have to be met set of requirements. And that process we have always adhered to because it is an obligation under international law to provide the right to claim asylum.

Speaker 2 And it's not tell me your story, kid. It's show me that you meet each one of these criteria that very

Speaker 2 clearly needs an attorney to help you do that.

Speaker 5 Absolutely.

Speaker 5 And I just also want to say that sometimes there's this perception that being placed in an immigration and removal proceeding and having a claim of asylum, somehow that the standards and or the adjudication of that is very lax.

Speaker 5 It is not. No.
No. It is not.
There is a rigor of different requirements that somebody has to meet in order to be granted asylum.

Speaker 5 And the judicial process is a really exacting one for someone to be able to meet that.

Speaker 2 I couldn't do it for myself. Absolutely.
I'm an attorney and I could not do, I could not present my asylum case.

Speaker 3 It is hard.

Speaker 5 Absolutely.

Speaker 5 And I think particularly in the space of children, When our staff goes and meets a child in a immigration detention facility, there has to be at a minimum, you know, a a space of meaningful rapport building and trust for a child to even confide and name what has brought them to the United States.

Speaker 5 And the need to be the ability of someone and of an advocate, even a seasoned advocate to be able to communicate effectively with a child to provide the trauma-informed approach that is conducive to actually any kind of meaningful advocacy is something that also requires a level of expertise and skill and of commitment.

Speaker 5 And so just to name that when we're talking about the network of organizations that are doing this work, these are also people who are looking at their work through the lens of the law, the lens of trauma-informed approach to lawyering, and have developed a level of skill that is needed to provide any kind of meaningful support and representation in the legal system.

Speaker 5 And it is something that I think we can't kind of lose sight of, too.

Speaker 3 We sat with the Florence team for hours and listened to those people who do that and how they do it. And it's skill and love and

Speaker 3 so much beauty there. So, we are going to make sure that you, Pod Squad, have a link to the fund that we put all of our tour money into

Speaker 3 that will be distributed to all of these

Speaker 3 different Florences in many, many states. I want to tell you one more thing that Lillian said to me that moved me so deeply when I said that we were going to give the money to the network.

Speaker 3 She said, I want you to know that I don't know, I can't make things work out well for these kids. I can't tell you that it's going to be okay.

Speaker 3 I cannot tell you that these kids will not still

Speaker 3 go through hell. What I I can tell you is that we will not let them go through hell alone.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And that felt like a true thing to me.

Speaker 3 That made me trust you so much. So we will make sure that you have

Speaker 3 the link to give. There are a million different ways to resist.

Speaker 3 We will be talking about all of them for as long as we are able to.

Speaker 3 One way is to give funds to these people who are not going to let these kids go through hell alone.

Speaker 3 I also will tell you that we, at almost every stop of the tour, we met people from these organizations.

Speaker 3 And pod squad, I don't know if this is like just something that happens when you get old, that everyone starts to look like a baby. Like you walk into a hospital and you're like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 Is it bring your child to work day? Like, where are the doctors? I'm sorry. Is this, is there any grown-ups that work at this store? Like, what? It's just that we're so damn old.

Speaker 3 I turned on a soap opera the other day. I was like, when did they start casting children?

Speaker 3 That's how I feel like when I watch professional sports.

Speaker 2 I'm like, is this the JV team?

Speaker 3 Exactly. What's going on? But one of the things I was so moved by in meeting all of these people who do the work you do is how beautiful and young and hopeful and brilliant and hardworking.

Speaker 3 And they all kind of have this vibe of where is everybody?

Speaker 3 These kids, I mean, they're not kids, they're 40.

Speaker 3 They look like kids and they believe, you know, they're like believers.

Speaker 3 They believe in justice and they believe in goodness and they believe in giving their lives over to use their skill and energy to protect the most vulnerable.

Speaker 3 And they are wondering where everybody is.

Speaker 5 I have to tell you, you know, Guana, you had a chance to meet some of our staff. And

Speaker 5 I could have put any number of people in that room. And I cannot tell you

Speaker 5 how inspired I am by the people I work with every day.

Speaker 5 People that are in our organization are also a part of our community. They are also facing what is happening right now directly.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 they are showing up in this moment in time with all of their talent, all of their skill, all of their care.

Speaker 5 This is work of the heart and of the intellect.

Speaker 5 So many of our staff members who have accompanied so many of the children that we serve, of the adults and individuals that we serve, they themselves experience secondary trauma.

Speaker 5 They themselves are also sitting near and close to the story, the lived experiences of the people that they both have the privilege and the space to share their work with. And

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 am

Speaker 5 always waking up in the morning, feeling in awe, honestly,

Speaker 5 of

Speaker 5 all of our staff. And I know the staff of so many organizations out there right now doing this work every single day.

Speaker 5 And I just want to say that I feel a sense of incredible gratitude to all of my staff and all of the people that are doing this work every single day.

Speaker 5 And it means so much to them, honestly, to see you, others, community.

Speaker 5 sitting with them.

Speaker 5 And I said to you, I wish it could bottle up this time that we had with you, you know, in that room with just a, you know, a few of our staff members.

Speaker 5 So I wish it could bottle up that time that we had on your tour night and just seeing that room of people stand up.

Speaker 5 And I wish I could have brought it back to every single one of my staff members. And I wish I could have done that.

Speaker 5 And I try, but let me tell you, please know that as each of us is sitting there doing our work every single day, we are also thinking of all of you.

Speaker 5 We are also thinking of all of you.

Speaker 5 And it's also what inspires us and what encourages us, what keeps us going.

Speaker 5 And I couldn't be more grateful to you for having showed up that day. And Abby, thank you for showing up that day.

Speaker 2 I think what we can all say is like what you promised those kiddos is that they may go through hell, but you won't let them go through it alone. I think we as a community can say to heroes like you,

Speaker 2 We know that you're going to go through hell and we won't let you do it alone. We are grateful and we're going to show up.
We're going to show up with our dollars and our support and our advocacy.

Speaker 2 If you want to be part of standing up for these kids and with these kids as if they are our own,

Speaker 2 which they are,

Speaker 2 you can go to treatmedia.com. That's T-R-E-A-T-M-E-D-I-A dot com.

Speaker 2 And there are two tabs there that you can go to. One is Protect the Children at the top.
And that gets you to the network that will distribute all of your funds to these organizations.

Speaker 2 You can give there, and it'll be spread throughout the organizations.

Speaker 2 There is also a link to shop, and that has all the We Can Do Our Things merch, and all of the profits from all of that merch will go to that network of organizations as well.

Speaker 2 So, those are two ways that you can step up up and be part of this today.

Speaker 3 Thank you, and we're going to keep going. Lillian and I are going to have a family meeting together, yeah, a family meeting like online.
Well, it'll be on Zoom, I think.

Speaker 3 Oh, like a link we'll send everyone. Yeah, it's going to be like a link.
Fantastic. It's June something, if that's helpful.

Speaker 5 I think it's June 25th, but it's happening and it's happening soon.

Speaker 3 Pod Squad, we love you, and we're going to do hard things, and we're going to do them together, and we're going to do them with heroes like Lillian.

Speaker 3 And we might be going through hell over the next few years, but we will not go through hell hell alone. We've got each other.
Bye.

Speaker 3 If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Speaker 3 Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

Speaker 3 To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

Speaker 3 This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

Speaker 3 We appreciate you very much.

Speaker 3 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Speaker 3 Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Allison Schott, and Bill Schultz.