Candace Parker: WHAT’S THE COST OF GREATNESS?

Speaker 1 One thing I love about our listeners is how industrious all of you are. The stories we hear about you guys going off on your own and starting your own ventures like we did, it's truly inspiring.

Speaker 1 It's a big part of why NetSuite came to us as a sponsor. NetSuite offers real-time data and insights for so many business owners, and by that I mean over 42,000 businesses.

Speaker 1 NetSuite offers the number one AI-powered cloud ERP. Think of it as a central nervous system for your business.

Speaker 1 Instead of juggling separate tools for accounting here, HR there, inventory somewhere else, NetSuite pulls everything into one seamless platform.

Speaker 1 That means you finally have one source of truth, real visibility, real control, and the power to make smarter decisions faster.

Speaker 1 With real-time data and forecasting, you're not just reacting to what already happened, you're planning for what's next.

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Speaker 1 It helps you tackle today's challenges and chase down tomorrow's opportunities without missing a beat.

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Speaker 3 All right, Candace Parker, y'all. Get ready.
First of all, your book is the can do mindset.

Speaker 3 And I have been resisting all the time with our we can do hard things, making it titled, I'm Candace Can Do Hard Things. We're not going to do that because that's cheesy.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But note it for the record.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 You're just great at everything you do. This is just factual.
This is not an opinion. And I'd just like to run through some things real quick.
Okay, you are one of the greatest to ever play the game.

Speaker 3 You were the first overall pick in the draft. You won a championship with every professional team you played on.
Every team. Everyone.

Speaker 3 Not a one team did you play on that you didn't win a championship.

Speaker 1 Also, I think that you won a championship on every team that you played on. High school, college, professional, right?

Speaker 3 It's just stupid. It's stupid.
In high school, you became the only woman to ever win Player of the Year twice.

Speaker 3 You led Tennessee to two consecutive national championships, all while holding down a 3.35 GPA, which, whoa.

Speaker 1 Better than me.

Speaker 1 Just by like 2.5%.

Speaker 1 2.5% is right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Becoming the first woman to dunk in the NCAA tournament. You were selected to six all-WNBA teams and were the first player to win rookie of the year and MVP in the same season.

Speaker 3 She was rookie of the year and the MVP.

Speaker 1 That's crazy town. Crazy town.

Speaker 3 And you won two Olympic gold medals. Oh, and also you're a mother of three.
So I just have so many questions because

Speaker 2 you're making me embarrassed. I'm like,

Speaker 2 no,

Speaker 3 yeah, I get it. I feel exhausted just reading that list, like deeply to my soul, exhausted.

Speaker 2 I was really appreciative how honest you were in the book.

Speaker 3 And you talked about understanding being worn down by the need to constantly rise to the occasion.

Speaker 3 And you said sometimes the desire to be great is so consuming that even when you are at your best, it's never enough.

Speaker 3 And when I'm thinking through that list, I'm just wondering not only where does your desire for greatness come from, because we've got to understand that, but also what does that cost you?

Speaker 3 And does it last for you? Because thing after thing after thing that you have done is just,

Speaker 2 it's a lot.

Speaker 2 Well, first, I come from like an extremely competitive family and the expectations were always there.

Speaker 2 My dad always would talk about not setting your bar and letting it be measured by what others can accomplish. Like, let's raise your bar to what you feel like you're capable of.

Speaker 2 And that didn't just apply to sports. It applied to whenever you set out to try to succeed at anything.

Speaker 2 And my parents were very intentional about the confidence that they instilled in us, but also the work that it would take to achieve the things that we wanted to achieve.

Speaker 2 And I mean, we were probably in today's standards, looked at as like a crazy family. On Saturdays, we would get up.

Speaker 2 My dad would be in the car and us kids would be like running behind the car, like running after the car and strength shoes. And,

Speaker 2 but it was all like what we wanted. We told our parents what we wanted and then they helped us accomplish it.

Speaker 2 And so I think from a very early age, I learned about the sacrifice of accomplishing your goals and like wanting to succeed.

Speaker 2 I learned about the cost that it took, but I also learned the feeling that you feel when you accomplish it, how amazing it is.

Speaker 2 And how when you sacrifice the now, then you can be great in the future and you can reap the rewards of your hard work and things like that. As I got older,

Speaker 2 you have to decide at what cost.

Speaker 2 And I think that's the balance of what I talk about. And I'm even learning it now.
Like I, I'm working March Madness. I never stayed a night away from Leyla until she was three years old.

Speaker 2 My oldest daughter.

Speaker 2 She was three years old. She was traveling all over Russia.
She went everywhere. I nursed her till she was 15 months.
So it just was like, we were a package deal.

Speaker 2 Now, my youngest son, it's like that guilt of like, okay, I'm away commentating for two weeks. And I actually just got home today and I leave tomorrow because I just had to come home and smell them.

Speaker 2 But it's like, I ask myself all the time,

Speaker 2 is this worth the cost?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 sometimes it's yes. And sometimes I have to pivot and learn to make other choices in the future.
But I think the thing that really stuck out to me

Speaker 2 is going through motherhood and seeing other mothers now from a different perspective. Like the Tennessee coach, right? Her first year coaching.

Speaker 3 Pat Summit, you're talking about right now, right? No, the new one.

Speaker 1 It's the new one.

Speaker 2 Oh, the new one. Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 I thought you were talking about in your time.

Speaker 2 Okay. No, no, no.
You're right. Well, Pat was an amazing work balance of motherhood and basketball as well.
But The new coach at Tennessee, Kim Caldwell, she just was hired.

Speaker 2 It's her first year, big opportunity, came from from Division II, I believe,

Speaker 2 and found out she was pregnant. And just in talking to her, every conversation I've had, I keep telling her, this is amazing.
It's so exciting to be a mother. And she's like, well, I'll be back.

Speaker 2 You know, I'll be back. And

Speaker 2 I remember being like that. Like when I got pregnant with Layla, feeling like I had to, I had to come back, you know, like I had to prove that I could do this balance.
And so.

Speaker 2 You know, I kind of through writing the book realized in watching real time her come back seven days days basically after she delivered her son and beat ucon which is our huge rival

Speaker 1 which is a phenomenal i know that's what to you

Speaker 2 but watching her i said to myself if

Speaker 2 coming back in 53 days which is what i did after i had my daughter to play basketball is seen as strength then taking your full maternity leave is that seen as weak

Speaker 2 And so it's just kind of like all of these things that I'm going through within the book of like, at what cost

Speaker 1 is it too much?

Speaker 2 And at what, how much pressure are we willing to put on ourselves? Because women, we always constantly have to prove ourselves. And

Speaker 2 was I part of the problem?

Speaker 2 You know, and I think that's kind of my balance right now. I want to work.
I want to be great, but I love my family and I want to have time to spend with them as well.

Speaker 1 Okay. So I want to dig a little bit deeper into that because I want to get into the drive.
You said, I want to be great.

Speaker 1 Can you say more about why you want to be great? Because you said in the ESPN doc, unapologetic, you said people don't know your full story when you step onto the court.

Speaker 1 So I want to know why you want to be great and if playing

Speaker 1 is an attempt to be known.

Speaker 2 I have always

Speaker 2 wanted to prove myself. I think it's just that little sibling.
I'm the third and I'm eight and 11 years younger than my older brothers. They're my heroes.

Speaker 2 Everything they did, I was like in the shadows, like trying to do it. I mean, gosh, they unplugged my remote, my controller for Nintendo, and I was thinking I was beating them.

Speaker 2 You know, like, I just have always

Speaker 2 tried to compete in some ways in whatever I was doing.

Speaker 2 I don't like losing. And if I do something, I don't know why I wouldn't want to do it to the best of my ability, if that makes sense, or like put the time in.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 where that drive comes from, my wife and I talk about this all the time. I feel like our kids are just born the way they are born.

Speaker 2 And we're just trying to be guardrails with them and rewire the things we can. But honestly, we're literally just guardrails.
Like they're going in the direction they're going.

Speaker 2 We're just trying to keep them from falling off the cliff, you know? Right.

Speaker 2 I feel like my parents did an amazing job of identifying what made me tick, what made me go, and then Pat took the reins, and that's how it was.

Speaker 2 And so, I feel like it fed into my competitive nature and my competitive desire. I don't like being known.
I'll be honest, I want to accomplish the thing,

Speaker 2 but I am a little bit resistant of the attention that comes with it. I think that's my biggest thing now.
Even I don't want credit. I just want to do it, if that makes sense.
And

Speaker 2 does it feel good?

Speaker 2 And I'm learning now in moments to embrace because Abby, you know, like you blink and it's over. But I sit here all the time and I'm like, I don't remember

Speaker 2 being in the first and second round and going to shoot around.

Speaker 2 I don't remember those little things. I remember little moments of like dinners with teams and stuff like that.
But the everyday grind, I think sometimes we forget it. And

Speaker 2 because we forget it, we almost are a little bit more nonchalant in what we accomplish.

Speaker 2 And I think in retrospect, as these things come in, I'm learning to embrace them and to be like, that was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 Or, you know, mommy has two gold medals when we're talking about the Olympics this summer, you know, like, I have two gold medals or, you know, and talking about those things because I come from a family that's at the dinner table.

Speaker 2 I mean, we make fun of one another. We keep each other humble.
We try not to let each other get the big head. But there's a time and a place for like, yo, congratulations.

Speaker 2 Take this, embrace it, and enjoy it.

Speaker 1 Okay. So I've been retired a little bit longer than you.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 one of the things that I say now is that I am a recovering professional athlete. And

Speaker 1 this obsession that I think that you would agree with that it really is like this obsession with an unknown quantity of of how good can I be? How great can I be?

Speaker 1 And this drive that we've been talking about, this drive to greatness.

Speaker 1 Can you tell me if there is enoughness in the career that you had?

Speaker 1 Did you ever reach the moment or have the moment where you were able to completely embody?

Speaker 1 the achievements of the totality and the breadth of the success that you had because you won the gold medal. What was that like winning the gold medal and getting off of the podium?

Speaker 1 Like, how long did that last for you?

Speaker 1 Because I'm in the middle of kind of going through the dissection of all of this, kind of in the last couple of years, trying to figure out what the hell happened. How the hell did I do all this?

Speaker 1 And I'm just so eager to understand the psychology of all these different successful leaders, athletes, of their process. Like, were you fully satisfied?

Speaker 1 Could you find satisfaction in winning one gold medal?

Speaker 2 First of all, we need to have a side convo because this is what I've been saying from the get-go, that when you retire, it is almost like a death. Yep.

Speaker 2 It is. It's a death because my first love I can say without hesitation was basketball.
I picked up that ball in seventh grade and I would sacrifice anything for it.

Speaker 2 I would play on a banged up knee for.

Speaker 2 I would leave my significant other to go across the country, across the world. I would get on a plane and have no idea where the hell I was going to play.

Speaker 2 But as long as the basketball was dribbling, I wanted to be there to play. I would stay up late at night.

Speaker 2 I would be in mourning after we would lose in a playoff, like to the point where I was like, I got to get out of bed. One of my best friends was like, dude, you got to get out of bed.

Speaker 2 So when you have that for

Speaker 2 you, you're counting professionally, but really it's 30 years. I've been, I played basketball for 30 years of my life.

Speaker 2 And then all of a sudden, it's gone. And my wife, after she retired, you know, I kind of went through that with her.

Speaker 2 But she always will tell you, like, I didn't love basketball like you love basketball. Like, I loved basketball.
It was what I did, but I don't love it as much as you.

Speaker 2 But we went through that and I saw her and

Speaker 2 kind of the different ways that she kind of

Speaker 2 went about it. In

Speaker 2 you grieve a little bit, you miss miss it.

Speaker 2 But in actuality, Abby, I am upset that I was injured and had to stop playing because I always said I wanted to walk off the field or the court. I should say I'm thinking of you, the court.

Speaker 2 But the only way I was going to walk off the court was going to be if it was going to be me being injured. There's no way that I would just put the ball down and be like, I'm done.

Speaker 2 So I know that in some ways, shape or form, the universe was like, this is what needs to happen to this person. And in a way, I knew my daughter was at my last game.

Speaker 2 And I remember being like, I cannot keep walking around like this. I can't keep limping and being in pain.
And my off days are filled with trying to get back to 50% to be able to limp on the court.

Speaker 2 Like, I just can't keep doing this.

Speaker 2 And there was a moment where

Speaker 2 I knew it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I say all this to say that

Speaker 2 I went and had total, you reconstruction on my foot.

Speaker 2 And the next week I was at my daughter's first high school volleyball game.

Speaker 2 And I looked around and was like, I shouldn't be anywhere else.

Speaker 2 I shouldn't be anywhere else. So

Speaker 2 I am grateful for my community because I have always had people around me that have made it.

Speaker 2 My identity became less about bouncing a ball and more about showing up for them. And

Speaker 2 basketball was what I did, but who I was was way more important. And I established that and learned that gradually, especially in the closing years.
And having a wife and having kids and parents.

Speaker 2 And I mean, my mom boo-hooed when I pushed send on that Instagram post. She was like, I just, I just want to see you play.

Speaker 2 And I just, you know, and realize how much like your family's involved with like.

Speaker 2 you know, coming to your games. Like, think about it.
Your schedule would come out and your whole family is like, we're going to come to this game. We're going to come to this.

Speaker 2 We're going to travel overseas and see this game.

Speaker 1 It becomes their identity, it's their identity, exactly.

Speaker 3 They've been doing it for 30 years, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. And so,

Speaker 2 I think that that was the biggest thing, but it's also having the time and ability to create other memories and be there and show up for them.

Speaker 2 So, that was a roundabout way of answering, you know, your question. But I think as athletes,

Speaker 2 we do miss it, but you have to figure out, you have to somehow separate yourself from the game

Speaker 2 every

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Speaker 1 One thing I love about our listeners is how industrious all of you are. The stories we hear about you guys going off on your own and starting your own ventures like we did, it's truly inspiring.

Speaker 1 It's a big part of why NetSuite came to us as a sponsor. NetSuite offers real-time data and insights for so many business owners, and by that I mean over 42,000 businesses.

Speaker 1 NetSuite offers the number one AI-powered cloud ERP. Think of it as a central nervous system for your business.

Speaker 1 Instead of juggling separate tools for accounting here, HR there, inventory somewhere else, NetSuite pulls everything into one seamless platform.

Speaker 1 That means you finally have one source of truth, real visibility, real control, and the power to make smarter decisions faster.

Speaker 1 With real-time data and forecasting, you're not just reacting to what already happened, you're planning for what's next.

Speaker 1 And whether your company is bringing in a few million or hundreds of millions, NetSuite scales with you.

Speaker 1 It helps you tackle today's challenges and chase down tomorrow's opportunities without missing a beat.

Speaker 1 Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com/slash hardthings. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hardthings, netsuite.com/slash hard things

Speaker 1 i think it's so fascinating to hear you talk about that you actually really loved the game because after 30 years i played 30 years also

Speaker 1 at the end i wasn't in love with the game i was in love with the game was giving me So it was paying my bills. It brought me a sense of power, a sense of self-esteem, an identity.

Speaker 1 Like all of these things were really like wrapped up in it. And one of the things you just talked about that I think is really important, I want to kind of dig into a little bit here is this idea of

Speaker 1 chasing extraordinary. Cause I think that you and I are very similar in this way.
Like, if I'm going to do it, I want to do it big. I want to win the biggest things.

Speaker 1 I want to do it at the highest level.

Speaker 1 And then I got a family.

Speaker 1 And then I got a family. And I was like, hold on a second.

Speaker 1 This is where it's actually at. Nobody really told me that.
Professional sports in some way feels like a cult.

Speaker 1 I was like totally obsessed and couldn't see outside of this like little box of professional sport women's soccer world.

Speaker 1 Have you figured out the right way to balance

Speaker 1 your ordinary life in a way that allows you to experience? Because you're still doing extraordinary shit.

Speaker 1 You're still commentating, you're an investor, you're the president of Adidas women's basketball. Like you're doing such big things,

Speaker 1 but now you have three kids, a family, a wife. How do you work on developing the ordinary in your life so that you can actually experience the extraordinary?

Speaker 2 Layla Nicole was born in 2009.

Speaker 2 And that was the first time I put something ahead of the game.

Speaker 2 I was a young mom and I'll never forget this moment.

Speaker 1 And you know what?

Speaker 2 I might have scored a lot more points if I didn't have my daughter. And I might have won a couple more championships maybe,

Speaker 2 but I wouldn't be able to live with myself right now. Like I wouldn't be the human and the person that I am right now.
And I know that without a shadow of a doubt. She was born and

Speaker 2 it was so interesting because I remember someone telling me like we didn't know that you would be a good mom and i'm like whoa first of all in the heart like geez you didn't think i'd be a good mom but guess what like she's the most important thing to me and she was six weeks old

Speaker 2 maybe a little older i think she was like eight weeks old we had a new nanny she came and babysat her it was during swine flu when that whole thing was going on She gave my baby swine flu.

Speaker 2 She had 104 temperature. She was like 12 weeks because we had, I had been playing for a little bit.
So she was like 12 weeks old.

Speaker 2 So she was right on the brink of like being able to take medicine and not having to go straight to the hospital, whatever. I'm in the doctor's office.
They tell me she has swine flu.

Speaker 2 I like start bawling.

Speaker 2 Then I just look at her and I'm like, like mama mode. I'm not going to leave her side.
I'm there.

Speaker 2 And it just took over where it's my responsibility to make sure she's good and she's taken care of and she's first. And it just ignited that passion of that mama bear instinct.
And

Speaker 2 I put her first. I missed a game.
It was in LA. And I remember she was getting better.
Her fever came down. Everything was good.
And I was like, nope, not leaving her until she's perfectly healthy.

Speaker 2 And basketball can wait. I never did that.
I left prom

Speaker 2 early to go to a basketball tournament. Like I, this has always been the case.

Speaker 2 So I think Layla was the first introduction to it.

Speaker 2 Then I read, I don't know if you've read the book. If If you haven't, Chopwood, Carry Water.
It's a really short read. It's like

Speaker 2 the most amazing book that I could have read at this stage of my life. I was going through everything, my divorce, separation.

Speaker 2 Do I like women? This is kind of crazy. Like that whole thing.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I read this book and it was right before our 2016 championship.

Speaker 2 And it talks about relinquishing results. Like by living in the moment, you relinquish the results.

Speaker 2 And it's basically this whole thing about this guy he wants to be an archer and he goes and he's just like hurrying up to try to learn how to do it and the guy's like no it's about chopping wood carrying water and the process and it basically like talks about like this golf ball and how you know in golf it used to be smooth but the more the golf ball was hit they realized the better it traveled so the the dents in the golf ball actually made it travel where you wanted it to and all these things and so it just had all these concepts in it and it was at that moment where i stopped staying in bed for three days after losing.

Speaker 2 And I stopped being that person that was just so hung up on results and whatever. I feel like success comes in different shapes and sizes.
And basketball and my family have proven that.

Speaker 2 I feel very successful every time I walk into the door and my kids love me and my dogs run up and my wife loves me and we have date night and we like I'm giving time and they're giving time and my daughter comes and gets in my bed and shares things about her and her boyfriend.

Speaker 2 And, you know, like, I just, I feel like that's successful. And so much of athletes is measured based off of like, how many points do you score? How many assists?

Speaker 2 But what if you get hurt and you make a heroic comeback and that's all you had to give, you know? Or what if things happen in your personal life and you fight through it? Like that's success.

Speaker 2 So I think it changed like

Speaker 2 family changed my identity a lot. And it also changed my perception of what that success looks like.
And I don't know if you, I'm sure you guys watch.

Speaker 2 I don't know if both of you watched, but I'm a last dance, like I watched last dance during,

Speaker 2 you watched it. Okay, good.

Speaker 2 I looked at that and I idolize Michael Jordan still, but I'm also just like, I don't know if I could ever be like that. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Maybe during basketball, but it's not a switch that you can just have during the game and then just turn off. I don't know if I could ever be like that.
So that was kind of

Speaker 2 the roundabout way of saying,

Speaker 2 I think family changes you. It's necessary.

Speaker 1 Well, and to that point, I would love to hear a little bit about like your younger years. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I think a lot about like how a leader is built. How

Speaker 1 for me myself, like, how did I embody a leader? Like, how did that happen?

Speaker 1 And I want to ask you,

Speaker 1 do you have like an earliest memory on like an AAU team or your high school team where you're in this little cocoon of a family where it seems like your mom and your dad are the leaders and then you've got your big brothers some have go go to the NBA did both of them get signed to play in the NBA or just one so one of them went to the NBA

Speaker 2 the other one graduated from Johns Hopkins and is a doctor

Speaker 2 yeah he's the black sheep he's the black sheep

Speaker 1 that's hilarious now he's not now he's like I think I made a bad exact choice He's like, my knees are doing pretty well.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Well, there your family is. That's your whole world that you learn how to live, right?

Speaker 1 From your dad pushing you guys pretty tough, pretty psychologically, like getting you prepared for what's to come.

Speaker 1 When is your first and earliest memory of embodying that for yourself, for your team as a leader?

Speaker 2 Ooh, that is an amazing question.

Speaker 2 Growing up, my dad was extremely tough on us. My mom was a lover.
You know, she thought we could do no wrong and pumped us with extreme confidence, which is a great balance because we needed it.

Speaker 2 I say this all the time. I think my dad has told me I've played well like four or five times in my life.
He's been like, you had a great game. I'm serious.

Speaker 2 And honestly, I knew it was time for me to like get close to retiring because he was telling me I played well. And I was like, I sucked.
Like, what are you talking about? You're like, I'm bad for me.

Speaker 2 I know. I was like, I don't want your pity.
Like, you know, like, I don't want that. You know, now it may be time to hang it up.
If you're giving me pity, you played well.

Speaker 2 But I did have a lot of that as a kid and I could handle

Speaker 2 a lot as a kid. But when that voice shifted to me motivating myself,

Speaker 2 I honestly would say it was right after my first knee injury.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I tore my ACL. I was number one player in the country, playing at a summer tournament, went up for a rebound, planted, girl hit me, everything in my knee was torn.

Speaker 1 You're in high school, right?

Speaker 2 I just turned 17 years old and I tore my ACL, my MCL, my LCL, PCL,

Speaker 2 cartilage, meniscus. I tore everything in my knee.
Wow. I remember laying in my bed.

Speaker 2 that first night and my mom coming in and climbing in bed and you know i was crying and all upset and you know, they say people don't come back from this.

Speaker 2 And I mean, you know, injuries, the psychological impact of just like getting through it. And it's not usually day one.
It's usually month three where you're just like, nobody's reaching out anymore.

Speaker 2 You know, nobody's really kind of worried about it. And I realized like I had to be my own motivation.
I had to be the one that set goals and figure out other ways to improve.

Speaker 2 And my dad was big on like eating with my left hand growing up. You got to learn how to use your other hand, like, you can't just be they're going to just force you left.

Speaker 2 Like, that's what you're going to do.

Speaker 2 So, I had started that year, like, eating solely with my left hand, brushing my teeth with my left hand, doing push-ups when I got back healthy and could do push-ups on my toes, doing push-ups every night before I would go to bed.

Speaker 2 I would do 50, 60 push-ups, like by the time I reached college, and I worked my way up from 10. So, I just like started really setting my own goals and not necessarily worrying about everybody else.

Speaker 2 I think something my mom and dad told me when I was younger was bosses push, leaders pull.

Speaker 2 Leaders get to where you want the team to go and pull the team there. Bosses want to push you and tell you what you need to do.
And I wanted to be a leader.

Speaker 2 And so anything that I was asking of my team and my teammates, I wanted to be doing. Did I do it all the time? No.
Did I have periods of time where I struggled? Yes.

Speaker 2 But overall, that was my motivation. And I think all in all, the thing I'm most proud of is like I did learn from my experiences and I became my own voice of reason.

Speaker 2 Because, you know, as kids, when you're working on a team, you know this, especially with as many teammates as you have in soccer. Not everybody gets along.
Not everybody ticks the same.

Speaker 2 Sometimes somebody says something that you're like, hold up, come at me again, or, you know, whatever.

Speaker 2 But the more I went through the experience, especially when I reached Chicago, I think that's when I was the most proud of myself, of the leadership that I had developed over time.

Speaker 2 Because I didn't let adversity sway me. I didn't let adversity sway the way that I tried to talk to my teammates and put in the work and just put your head down.
Like we were 16 and 16 that year.

Speaker 2 I had rolled my ankle at the beginning of the season, missed seven games. We lost seven games straight.
We were a sixth seed, I believe, and came back and won the championship.

Speaker 2 So I think that's the most proud. I was like, younger Candace is proud of where the leadership is with older Candace.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I cannot believe in all of my time, especially researching leadership and being quote-unquote a leadership expert, having written a leadership book, I cannot believe I've never heard that quote about leaders pull and bosses push.

Speaker 1 That is so

Speaker 1 emblematic of everything that I try to talk about. We can't not have this conversation and not talk about Pat Summit as like the epitome of leader.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And something that when you were talking that I was like feeling in my body is like, we had to learn our leadership.
Like every leader is a little different.

Speaker 1 They take on some of the leaders that they had as coaches, as parents, as teachers, whomever.

Speaker 1 And so I think some of the best leaders in the world also know how to follow really well

Speaker 1 because we were really observing

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 learning

Speaker 1 in order for us to be a great leader down the road. We were observing and learning from the greats in our life.
And so, I want to talk about Pat and the impact that she had on you.

Speaker 1 And that you've said it before, I think, that the safety blanket that she offered you in a way.

Speaker 1 Like, sometimes when you have like a really amazing coach or an amazing leader in your life, especially when you are the best player or the best whatever.

Speaker 1 You came in number one, you get injured in the first bit of your time at Tennessee. You need to have a coach that almost gives you some guardrails.
And Pat did that for you.

Speaker 1 Can you talk a little bit about her, the relationship you had with her and like what you learned from her as a leader?

Speaker 2 Pat is

Speaker 2 still very much alive in every way that I operate now,

Speaker 2 in the way that I parent, in the teammate that I try to be at work, in the spouse that I am.

Speaker 2 And a lot of it has to do with the way that she operated at neutral.

Speaker 2 And I say all that in leadership is about operating right here.

Speaker 2 And we always talk about the warrior dial, right? Like you don't want to be too high, too low.

Speaker 2 Warrior dial is actually in Chopwood Carriewater too, where 9, ten you're like running through a wall like you're like ah like running out there making dumb plays probably fouling getting red cards and stuff like that

Speaker 2 four five is like too low you're too calm whatever you want to be at like six you want to operate at like that six seven

Speaker 2 area well that's what leadership is and i found that from coach

Speaker 2 coach was the hardest on us when we were winning

Speaker 2 When we were winning, she was the hardest on us about the little things, about boxing out, about rebounding, about like she always found improvement in those moments when we felt relaxed.

Speaker 2 We were at a four because our team is good, right? Like we're chill, we're good. She was like, no, we need to improve this, this, and this.

Speaker 2 And when we sucked, that's when she was, no, mind you, we did have some difficult practices, but that's when she put her arm around you and was like, you can shoot, dribble, pass, you can do all these things.

Speaker 2 Don't doubt that. Don't ever have lack of confidence towards things that you're great at.

Speaker 2 And as a result of that, that leadership,

Speaker 2 I feel like when you walk into an environment and everybody's up here and everybody's hype, yes, you can be hype with your team, but you still have to be that calm.

Speaker 2 And the same way, when everybody's negative and pointing fingers and this is broken and this is broken and this is broken, leadership is saying what we are and we have continually been.

Speaker 2 And I just feel like leadership is that like warrior dial. Like you got to,

Speaker 2 you know, when when your team is too high, you gotta kind of bring them back down. Like, hey, yo, we haven't won anything.

Speaker 2 And when your team is too low, you gotta be like, hey, look at us in the mirror. We've done this, this, and this.
And that's what coach did for me consistently. And that's who she was consistently.

Speaker 2 She was the same human, whether she was hanging banners and cutting down nets or

Speaker 2 battling early onset Alzheimer's. I mean, she was the exact same person.
And as a result of seeing her go through adversity,

Speaker 2 I became better in that because I want to follow someone

Speaker 2 that does what they say they are going to do, even when the moment passes that they said it in. That's why I want to be as a partner too, like to my wife.
That's what I owe to my kids at work.

Speaker 2 And do I misstep? 100%, but that's what I want to try to aim to be. And coach listened.
You hit it right on the head.

Speaker 2 Like coach would come into the huddle and she would be like, What do you guys think?

Speaker 2 And I remember the first huddle, I looked around, like, does she really want to know? Is this a rhetorical question?

Speaker 2 Am I supposed to jump in? And she would listen. And sometimes she would do what we wanted to do and sometimes she wouldn't.
But you felt that ownership. And so now, as a mom, I asked my daughter,

Speaker 2 what do you think I see wrong in what you just did?

Speaker 2 What would you do if you were me? What would you think? And I just believe in like asking questions, you can get to the same answer that you want, as opposed to me telling you,

Speaker 2 Well, you didn't turn in your homework, you didn't do this, you didn't do that, so you're going to get this, this, and this. As opposed to like,

Speaker 2 what do you think is going to happen if you don't turn in your homework? Like, you know, those type of things.

Speaker 1 You're calling somebody into a higher version of themselves. I remember being in a lot of huddles, great coaches, great leaders in my life, and the leaders posed the questions, right? And then

Speaker 1 curated away an answer, right? Like she would listen, all right, so here's what we're going to do. I've heard five things.
Here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this, this, and this.

Speaker 1 And then it's like, okay, everybody had a little bit of say. So it feels better.

Speaker 2 Okay, but you did that too.

Speaker 2 Let's not divert and not take the leadership of like, you were an amazing leader and you commanded a lot of eyeballs and love and all of those things because you did the things that you were asking your team to do.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, yeah, I think you should own that because you need to own that. Yeah, like it's phenomenal.
For sure.

Speaker 1 And I do. And I think that leadership is such a, there's like something that I struggle with it in that it.
posits me, it positions me in a position of power.

Speaker 1 And that's the thing that never felt true to me. It never felt true that I was here.

Speaker 1 You know, I've talked about this on the podcast, but I scored 27 goals in my first three soccer games. Like it's stupid, right?

Speaker 1 But my mom said, like, Abby, didn't you think about passing? And I was just this arrogant little kid who was trying to get her mother's attention and love through goals.

Speaker 1 And I just said, well, I don't understand what the big problem is. Like, if I can do that better than everybody else, then what's the problem?

Speaker 1 She said, well, the problem is you're going to have no friends

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 she was kind of half joking but it was serious it's a team sport you need to have people and I never wanted to position myself above anybody else just because I did something

Speaker 1 more than they did because they were just as important and I feel like Coach Summit and you kind of epitomize like that belief system around you were the best player in the country for many years, not only while you were at Tennessee, but prior to that in high school.

Speaker 1 It is not easy, and it's interesting to go to

Speaker 1 a coach who you know is going to demand the most from you, more than you even think that you can give.

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Speaker 1 Do you think that

Speaker 1 you gave everything that you had to basketball? Like, do you have any regrets, anything that you left on the table back there?

Speaker 2 It's interesting that you talk about,

Speaker 2 I have issues, and I had issues. I'm getting better at it of the vulnerability element.
And I think it comes and it stems from my childhood: of like, we gave compliments, but not really.

Speaker 2 Like we see what you're doing, but you're supposed to do that. Do you know what I mean? And that was the mentality of our family, to be honest with you.

Speaker 2 And I realized like, as I got older, I struggled with compliments. I don't compliment myself.
I don't take credit for stuff.

Speaker 2 And I started recognizing it actually when one of my teammates was like, no, you need to take this. Like you need to say thank you or you need to like, own this.

Speaker 2 And I started realizing like, do I give out compliments?

Speaker 2 I don't know you said something about that of like the vulnerability and having friends and doing teammate i think my only regret is i closed off some of myself to my team

Speaker 2 regardless like if i was going through something or whatever i just showed up and acted tough and was not vulnerable and as a result i think people paint pictures of you that aren't the case.

Speaker 2 Like who I am now is way different

Speaker 2 than when I was going through the struggle. I mean, I look at 2016.

Speaker 2 I was separated from my husband.

Speaker 2 Pat passed away. I got cut from the U.S.
and national team.

Speaker 2 I was basically told I wasn't good enough, right?

Speaker 2 And then we go and win a championship. But through that, I just remember, yes, the celebration of winning, but the struggle, the anxiety that I had, like,

Speaker 2 And I can put a name to it now, you know, because I'm able to open myself up and say, like, hey, that's not normal.

Speaker 2 Like, you shouldn't be, you know, going to practice and crying in the car and then coming in and acting like everything's fine. And then people are like, well, Candace is weird.
Well, yeah.

Speaker 2 But I never shared it. And so I think my only regret is

Speaker 2 not being more vulnerable because

Speaker 2 before I like fell in love with Brene Brown's philosophy of like vulnerability is really power and, you know, it's strength and all that stuff, I thought of it as a weakness.

Speaker 2 And so I closed myself off.

Speaker 2 You know, I was a young mom. I would come in with two hours of sleep after nursing Layla all night.

Speaker 2 I didn't get to hang out with my teammates a lot because I did have a kid and I was married and I was going overseas and I was literally just trying to make it. So if I were to pick a regret,

Speaker 2 I would say I wish I was,

Speaker 2 I allowed myself to be more open.

Speaker 2 with my teammates and

Speaker 2 I allowed myself to be more vulnerable because I think they got to know a version that I was just creating just to get by, just to make it, just to get by the next day and, you know, whatever.

Speaker 2 And I wish they would have really gotten to know like me,

Speaker 2 if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 Isn't it so interesting the kind of armor that we have to put on in order to enter the gates of pro sports? We believe,

Speaker 1 at least this was true for me, that in order to be one, a pro athlete, that I had to, it's almost like a gladiator complex or something, that like nothing can hurt me.

Speaker 1 And then, especially if you're a leader, you talk about the warrior measurement. Like, I can't let anybody know that I'm suffering.
I suffered a lot throughout the end of my career.

Speaker 1 I was suffering very privately. I was abusing alcohol, abusing pain medicine.
And it's because I thought, I believed the story that I was told about pro sports was that

Speaker 1 I have to be infallible in my approach to the every single day, the grind, right?

Speaker 1 Like every day, your job, your literal job was to produce as much suffering as you possibly could tolerate so that you could gain minimal infinitesimal amounts of success, like gains. 1%,

Speaker 1 maybe you get that in a month of a gain.

Speaker 1 And every day, like it's the thing that I, I spent two years since I've retired, Candace, I spent two whole years promising myself to try to figure out how to build self-esteem without suffering.

Speaker 1 Because you know, after a grind, a workout,

Speaker 1 you're just like, I'm going to do this thing and you're done. And you get done and you're like, yes, I am the shit.

Speaker 1 I promised myself for two years I couldn't do that because I needed to know if I actually had self-esteem without that.

Speaker 2 Dude, now you're like, Yeah, it's so funny because I use the Peloton a lot.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the Peloton, it doesn't feel right unless I'm dying. Like, I can't just go for like a casual ride, even in the like

Speaker 2 low impact and like the recovery ride. I still am like, I got to be first.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm pedaling to try to be first. I don't know.
I can't turn it off. So, I'm

Speaker 2 that's an interesting statement. And I wholeheartedly wholeheartedly agree with you.

Speaker 2 Where, first of all,

Speaker 2 when I tell you pain meds,

Speaker 2 I realize like issues. I was taking it to survive.
Yep.

Speaker 2 To just get out of bed. Yep.
To just move,

Speaker 2 to go to the park with my kids. Yep.

Speaker 2 To do all that because I couldn't physically, I mean, degenerative discs in my back from my knees, bone on bone, need a knee replacement on my left side at 38.

Speaker 2 Foot reconstruction. Like, I was trying

Speaker 2 to

Speaker 2 just live life and push through it and grip my teeth. And I think the first realization that things didn't have to hurt was like

Speaker 2 my wife was watching me lift weights and she was like, Does that hurt? And I was like, Yeah, but it's okay. And she's like, but you don't play basketball anymore.
Like,

Speaker 2 you're retired. Like, it shouldn't hurt.
And in my mind, I'm like, like,

Speaker 2 I just, I got to push through it. And while writing this book, I realized I'm in the position that I'm in because I just grip my teeth.
I numb the pain and I just push through it.

Speaker 2 So what will it look like if I don't do that? If I do things right. And guess what? I get out of bed without being in pain because

Speaker 2 now I need to correct the Peloton, but in terms of lifting and all that stuff, like I'm doing Pilates and not lifting like massive weight to try to, I'm doing things that make my body feel good.

Speaker 2 And as a result, I am able to, you know, go play occasional beach volleyball or go, you know.

Speaker 2 So I think it is like a mindset of

Speaker 2 getting out of that because you have to be a little crazy to play professional sports. You have to.
Totally. At least the great ones.

Speaker 1 So, my last question, and a follow-up to this one, because I'm, I just, I'm obsessed with this topic. What then will be

Speaker 1 your your

Speaker 1 enough? Like

Speaker 1 you're on your deathbed many, many years from now, decades and decades from now. And you look back, like,

Speaker 1 what will you have wanted to accomplish? And also, do you have like a definition of enough? Do you have that situated? Because, like, my wife and I, we talk about that because when you've done it all,

Speaker 1 you're like, okay, but then am I just going to stay on the rat wheel, keep grinding for what? Like, what is this for? And so we've had to have real conversations of like what enough is.

Speaker 1 And do you and Anya have those conversations?

Speaker 2 Okay. So I'm a big like underliner for books.
And this book talks about enough. And the only way you know enough is enough is to get to enough.

Speaker 2 And so the people that master enough, like meaning stop before, and he gives the example, like, he gives the example of money and investments and billionaires that have accomplished the feat of being a billionaire, but they want to get 5 billion.

Speaker 2 So then they risk everything and end up having nothing because that was enough.

Speaker 2 We are finding that balance. And I think every single moment changes, especially now where

Speaker 2 I always tell my wife, I said, I'm willing to grind like training camp. I call this March training camp because I'm in atlanta i'm focused i'm doing sports i'm on television every day every other day

Speaker 2 but there's going to be the calm and i need to look forward to the calm and when i don't ever have that period of time where there's the calm and we can do what we want to do that's enough and i feel like more so than ever i need to carve out that especially

Speaker 2 with extra stuff. But you know, I really do feel like some of us, I feel like Pat was a martyr, like she did stuff so that I don't have to.

Speaker 2 And in some way, shape or form, I feel like

Speaker 2 I feel a responsibility to the Pat Summits, to the Billie Jean Kings, to the Robin Roberts, to the Abbys to do this so that other professional athletes don't have to work their ass off.

Speaker 2 Like other female athletes that are retired don't have to have seven million jobs.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 I just don't think we should have to.

Speaker 1 We shouldn't.

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, looking at the landscape now of sports, I do feel like we had a hand in the way that things are being

Speaker 2 done now. And

Speaker 2 the positions we held and the space we took up allowed for these young ladies to come in now and just play and just hoop and just play soccer. And I'm proud of that.
And my goal.

Speaker 2 in business, I said from an early age, I was like, I want to be the Magic Johnson

Speaker 2 for women's sports. I really truly want to open up doors for female athletes because we have the capabilities.
We just have to have the opportunity.

Speaker 2 So, enough for me wavers between the responsibility I have to myself and my family and the responsibility I feel like I have to those that sacrificed and paved the way before me.

Speaker 2 Like Cheryl Miller, she didn't have an opportunity to play in the WNBA. She tour ACL and that was it.
She coached in the WNBA, but like, where would she be if she had that? And so I don't know.

Speaker 2 I just, I feel like enough wavers a little bit because I feel this tremendous responsibility, but also I owe it to the people that I love so much to be able to give my time. So.

Speaker 1 Yo.

Speaker 1 All right. Sister, I'm so sorry that I totally monopolized this whole conversation.
I've been like,

Speaker 1 that was a damn joy.

Speaker 1 It was an honor to be present for this.

Speaker 2 You all are the best.

Speaker 1 I think that you are just so wonderful. I hope that you get your team in Tennessee, your WNBA team in Tennessee.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Go be calling. Let's go to Nashville.

Speaker 1 Give me a call, man. Seriously, we're in.
I would love, I would love to help with that process.

Speaker 2 I'm going to be calling you. And then also, I would love to

Speaker 2 do like a date night or something. Yes.
We're here in LA and we would love it.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, Pod Squad, thank you for listening.
This has been a damn joy for me. Candace Parker, we'll see you next time.

Speaker 2 You all are the absolute best. I appreciate you so much.

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Speaker 5 We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wombach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

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