Chelsea Handler on Happiness, Groundedness & the Upcoming Election

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Oh my God, my favorite three women!

Look at you.

You're such a fucking love bug.

Oh my God, I'm filled with it.

Look at at you guys.

Hi.

Long time now.

See.

Just love your face.

Oh, thanks.

Pod squad.

Obviously, we're here with Chelsea Handler, just one of our favorite humans.

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.

Chelsea Handler is a comedian television host.

Doesn't it feel funny to have to introduce Chelsea Handler?

Yeah.

If you don't know,

you do.

Podcast host.

You can't even handle her.

Don't try to.

Oh,

no one can handle it.

That's the truth.

Sissy, did you think of that last night in bed?

And thinking about it.

No, I thought of it right now, and then I was going to be so embarrassed because I'm sure Chelsea's heard it like a thousand times, but I was like, I'm feeling free.

I'm going with it.

Good job.

In my high school yearbook, you had to write, like, I forget what it was.

Like, people wrote things about you.

And this guy that I had a huge crush on, his name was Patrick Conforti.

He wrote something about, and let's not forget our favorites.

He said something about our freshman favorite, the handler full of fun.

And I was like, that sounds like a lot more than what happened, but thank you, I think, Patrick.

At that time in my life, I took that as a compliment.

Of course you did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I get that.

Any attention was good attention in high school.

Exactly.

Okay, wait.

Chelsea is the author of six.

New York Times bestsellers.

Crazy.

Five of which are number one New York Times bestsellers.

We have the same editor now.

We have the same book editor.

They were like, oh, I have a new book coming or I'm writing a book.

And they were like, oh, this is the editor.

We were talking about which editor I would go with.

And they're like, this is the editor of Glennon's books.

And then the editor of Laura Lynn Jackson's and then Elise Lonin, like all these people in our little writer's circle.

And I was like, oh my God, well, that's where I have to be.

I mean, Chelsea, Whitney, Frick.

We started our career together.

Sister and I

went to New York.

I'd never been to New York before.

Oh, gosh.

Well, if you had your drothers, you never would have been.

That's right.

And I've never been since.

But we sat down with her at the very beginning of this whole thing.

And we have gone with her to every different place she goes.

And then she started Dial Press.

And she has curated the most amazing group of thinkers.

Makes perfect sense to me that you're with her.

I think it's so funny that I still have not gotten through the first sentence of this intro.

So

five of which are number one bestsellers, including Life Will Be the Death of Me.

God, that book just.

She hosts the iHeartRadio Advice podcast, Dear Chelsea, which Abby and I try to be on once a month.

And her most recent critically acclaimed comedy special, Revolution, so fucking good, is available on Netflix.

If you want to see her live, and you must, Chelsea is currently on her little big bitch stand-up tour, which did I actually pee in my pants?

Yeah, I did pee in my pants and had to change my underwear when I got home.

Sissy, where were you?

Where were you?

I'm stuck in Virginia.

Oh, I think I'm coming to Richmond, Virginia.

Are you by Richmond?

No, but I will be in Richmond.

Okay, I will come.

I'm going to set you up with tickets if you can make it and then we can hang afterward.

I want to see you, Sissy.

This is ridiculous.

I've never even seen you in person.

I don't even believe that you exist.

I barely do, Chelsea.

Set us on this podcast.

That's the only time I've ever seen you.

Won't it be freaky when she walks in to see you?

And you're like, oh, you're a little bit more.

And she's like six foot four.

And I'm like, wait, what?

What is this?

She is tall.

She is tall.

How tall are you, sissy?

I'm, I used to be five'nine, but life has been the death of me.

And now I've been.

We're all shrinking.

You guys, my oldest dog, Bernice, is shrinking.

Like every day, I'm like, are you?

She's like a shrinky dink.

I'm like, she's transitioning, you know, to the afterlife.

And she just keeps getting smaller and smaller, but it's so fucking cute.

Like she is like a little teddy bear.

And she used to be a big bitch.

And now she's older and softening rather than hardening.

And I'm just having these last months with her have been beautiful, but she's actually not, I mean, she's fine, but, you know, she's on her way out, I think.

Did you name your tour after her?

She's the little bitch.

Not the little big bitch.

No, but it was an inspiration.

I mean, I'm her mother, so we've taken on a lot of the same qualities.

You know, they say your dogs end up like you.

And she definitely is.

She has no time for bullshit.

She doesn't pretend to care about people's feelings.

She doesn't try to make people more comfortable.

When they come up to pet her, she's like, no, thank you.

Not interested.

People want to take photos with her.

She's like, also, I didn't sign up for this life.

I'm like, that's right, Bernice.

You stand up for yourself.

Have some self-respect.

Yeah.

I feel like our dogs mirror us too.

We have a French bulldog and a really, really sweet.

golden doodle who does remind me of abby who do you think the french bulldog reminds people of i can't imagine.

Who could it be?

Oh my God, congrats to Trish on her new song.

How fucking cool is that?

You must be beaming, exploding with pride.

She played at the hotel cafe the other night.

She's just Chelsea.

She's just a baby and she's on the stage and she's so fucking good.

I know.

Isn't that amazing?

Isn't it amazing that you can create something and then they blow you away?

You're like, wait, what?

This is mine?

Yeah.

It feels like, you know, in Pinocchio there's Geppetto and he's just like making the doll and then the doll comes to life.

That's how I feel.

I'm like, wait, because it's weird when your kid does something that you don't know how to do at all, because then you realize that something fucking magical is going on here.

Yeah, but here's the thing.

The thing that I think that is so cool about it, and I can relate in some ways when I was young and like a great athlete, because we don't understand good singing or music, really, we don't understand anything about it.

When she comes off stage and we're like,

wow, that was amazing.

She's like, are you guys surprised?

Like, she's sick of it.

I work on this every day.

This is what I do.

Why are you so surprised?

And I totally understand that.

I'm like, so she came off the stage and I'm like, good job.

I thought you did.

I had a way to go.

We expected that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think Brandy's trying to teach me to chill.

She tells me less enthusiasm, more allyship of Tish,

but

more allyship.

I know, I'm like, whatever.

But how am I supposed to be your ally?

I'm her mother.

And less enthusiasm.

Okay, I'll work on that.

So, Brandy's kid is somehow this amazing soccer player.

And so, really?

Yeah.

And so, Brandy's relying on this one.

And let me tell you, she's really fucking enthusiastic because she's like, what?

How did this happen?

Anyway, that's perfect.

It's like a kid swap.

That's how Yeah, that's exactly right.

We are swapping.

Can you tell me how your book's going and what you're writing about?

Well, we'll see.

I handed it in most of it, not all of it.

I'm not done, but I handed in a big chunk of it last week.

So I'm waiting for feedback.

Oh, God, that's the worst.

So it's about being a woman and it's about.

not listening to any of the constructs that anyone tells you make you valuable and that you don't have to be a wife or a mother or do any of the bullshit that people tell us we have to do in order to be valuable in society and that this life that i've created with a lot of help from my fans is glorious and filled with unadulterated joy and i want all women to know that it's possible to achieve unadulterated blissfulness if you really get after it.

If you really are true to who you are and you listen to who you are and you do the work and you make sure that you heal from whatever screwed you up and you continue to look and and grow and think and ask questions, that you can live an incredible life without any of those things.

And in doing so, you can actually even have an impact on more people.

I feel like I have for sure.

I mean, I've been Whistler, I come up here for the winter to ski.

I've been here for three months, basically, mostly.

I've been touring a little bit in Canada, but I have basically a daycare center going on at my house.

I mean, I have so many children coming through this house, ages two to 10 to 15, boys, girls, they they all come over here if i had my kids i wouldn't have any time for that yeah so i have time and energy and the bandwidth for all sorts of gloriousness and i get so much joy out of having kids over and then kicking them out yeah and saying it's it's a wrap i'm not your mother get out of here yes we have two homes because we're a broken family so we also get to do that We get to say, I am your mother, but you still have to go.

Well, nobody really talks about the positives of broken homes.

that's right they don't ever talk about divorce allowing you to get your life back because someone else who also cares as much about your children is getting them 50 of the time you get a break and then you're able to dive in even more and more healthfully when you get your kids back so i feel like people should be advertising that i had this moment i was on a walk with a friend recently which is so exciting for me to say

I went on a walk with a friend.

She just really needed to work that in.

That's the end of her comment.

Glenn's like, what kind of activities can I say I got up to this week?

I did.

I walked.

Okay.

I walked with the new friend.

And she was talking about her broken family.

And she was talking about how the kids leave and go to their dads.

And she said, I feel so bad when they leave because I want to be with them all the time.

And I stopped her and I said, Is that true?

And she goes, No.

No, it's not true for anyone.

No one wants that.

It's not fucking true.

And you know what's cool is you keep saying unadulterated joy.

And it's such a funny word.

It's like to have that, you have to not just do all the things that people tell you adults have to do.

It's like you're unadulterated.

And then, yes, and then you have to really like be searching for happiness.

I don't want to be unhappy.

I want to be happy.

So anything that's in my way that's unhappy, instead of, you know, I'm just like, oh, that doesn't fit in.

And learning how to deal with the things that aren't, you know, vibing with your life or not getting so upset when something doesn't go well to understand that that's okay, too.

Like, it's your attitude that makes the impact.

It's your attitude that makes the difference.

If you have an attitude that's like, yeah, okay, this didn't work out, but I'm still going to be in a good mood.

That's all I can control.

I can't control the outcome of things.

All I can control is my positive disposition.

And this wasn't how I was my whole life.

This is, you know, in my 40s, I realized like, okay, how how do I get truly happy and make myself happy and be selfish without being guilty?

And all of those things that you think, you know, I remember growing up thinking whenever I had feelings of jealousy or insecurity, or if I wanted somebody to get their own karma served up to them, you know, when someone does you dirty and you're like, I can't wait for them to get it.

I would have those thoughts and think, I'm a bad person.

Like, I must be a bad person.

And it's like, no, no, you're a human being.

Those are just thoughts.

You're not acting on them.

You're not purposely seeking out a way for this person to get retribution, but to accept everything the way that it is and to actually not think like I always used to think, oh, selfish is so bad.

Selfish is so bad.

Selfish is not so bad.

You need to be a little bit selfish in order to be happy.

You have to.

Like the selfish, that word doesn't work because it has so much cultural meaning around it that doesn't even make sense.

I always think about how self-centered is pejorative, but then no one asks, if you weren't centered on yourself, what the fuck are you centered on?

Others, exactly.

What are you supposed to be centered on?

That just doesn't even make any sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I used to think that.

I used to think, oh, God, you know, like, it's so funny because when you go to therapy, in my instance, I was trying to get my own head out of my own ass.

I thought I was too self-absorbed because there's all these self-things, you know, self-absorbed, self-centered, self.

And the irony is that in order to become less self-absorbed, you have to sit around and talk about yourself

ad infinitum for possibly years.

So you're like, wait, I'm trying to get out of my own ass.

And all I'm doing is sitting here talking to a therapist about me.

So

it's a tricky endeavor.

And I also think that, like,

I've just gotten into therapy recently over the last six months.

And the thing that I've gathered the most is

I have really prided myself on being so other-minded that I have lost a sense of myself.

And I think that that in order to be able to have a good balance of those things, first and foremost, you have to have a relationship with yourself.

And to call it selfish, it's like the very first thing that you need in order to be able, it's like putting on your own mask, you know, on an airplane first before you can take care of somebody else.

You can't do it.

Selfishness, a healthy dose of it it leads to self-respect.

Yes.

Because if you are selfish enough, like to know what you need and know what you're going to do, like what you need to perform well for the world, right?

Like the reason I meditate every day is to make sure I'm not a cunt.

I'm like, okay, don't be a cunt today.

You are one.

Try really hard not to be.

Yes.

And we're going to try.

And it's gotten easier and easier not to be one, right?

But in doing that, in having self-respect and having my selfish time or in having selfish acts, which, you know, some people could say, oh, you have to meditate every morning.

They could categorize that as selfish.

Like anything could be considered selfish, but selfishness leads to self-respect.

I do believe that because I do respect myself.

I know what I need.

I know when I'm going to have like, you know, a full cup of energy or if I'm depleted and I need to remove myself from a situation because I'm not bringing my best vibes, you know,

and not to expose other people to that when you're not in the best mood or you're in a negative headspace or anything like that.

And the more you practice that, the less that becomes your norm.

How does meditating, this is also how I decuntify myself.

Oh, how

does meditating make you less of a cunt?

Because I sit there, I'm giving myself that 20 minutes each morning or 15, whatever it ends up being.

And it's my intention is to be joyful and spread good vibes and to spread joy and to be calm and non-reactive and to understand not everything is my responsibility and just to be like a light breeze going through the world so that when anybody interacts with me, they feel better after it rather than worse.

That's good.

I always feel like I have to meet with so many people during the day.

And so I should know who they're going to meet.

Like that's what meditating is for me.

It's like, I wake up every morning and I'm like, I don't know what we're going to get today.

And so sitting for a while and just letting whoever I am that day arise is good information for me to have as I go in to sit with other people.

Sometimes she'll text me and be like, we're about to jump on this meeting.

I need you to know that the self I am today

is homicidal.

So

I might pick some fights.

So I'm just going to need you to just be aware of that.

Isn't that meaningful?

Because then it's not personal to the other person.

Like if somebody is a dick to me,

I think that they don't like me.

But if somebody tells me before they talk to me that they are a dick today,

then I just think they're a dick.

That's helpful.

That is helpful.

Yeah.

Okay.

Wiser words have never been spoken.

Thank you, Chelsea.

Thank you.

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Here's how I trust your version of happiness, because I feel like everybody is always like, just find what makes you happy, just be blissful, whatever.

But I feel like your sort of happiness is very hard one.

There's a lot of hard stuff.

that you have to go into like a lot of ickiness before you get to figuring out who you actually are.

Sister, ask your question in the way that you were talking to me about it.

Like, how do you know who you are?

Oh, I really hope you can solve this for me, Chelsea.

It would really clean up a lot of my life.

But you have this value of being 100% you.

Like, I am 100% me.

I go out in the world.

That's who I am.

And what I'm trying to figure out is

how do we know

what is really us?

We are what we are, but part of that we came to the world with, and part of that we developed because of being in the world.

So like defense mechanisms or trauma responses or adaptations to help you navigate through your family when you were little, whatever it is.

And so when we try to

start healing, how do we distinguish between those two things?

Because they all seem to be presenting as who I am.

So how do you make sure you're getting rid of the stuff that isn't truly of you?

Well, don't you think?

I mean, I don't think, I know this to be true.

So, I think it's about how in touch we are with ourselves when we know something that truly makes us happy versus something that we're told is supposed to make us happy.

When I discovered skiing, for instance, this is the peak of my happiness.

Skiing to me is happy making.

I am so 100% present.

And that's where happiness comes from, from being present, because that's where all your joy comes from.

When you're laughing at someone and you're cuddling with someone, when you're in bed laughing with someone, you're loving it because you're there.

You're 100% there.

When you're skiing, you have to be 100% there.

When Abby's playing soccer, she's 100% there.

And that's unadulterated bliss because you love it.

You have to pay attention definitely to the things like sometimes.

When I notice myself pretending or being fake in the couple of times that's happened.

In that one time in 89.

I'm like, oh, oh, or even if I'm fraudulent in like, you know, even if there's like a temperature of like ass kissing or, you know, you have to kind of like be really good to someone or you have to,

I don't know, impress someone, that feeling is so.

tangible like you know that when you're not feeling authentic when you're like oh i hated that i just did that or for me it's like being fake to someone i can't be fake to someone if i don't like someone they'll know and i'm fine with that too i'm not there to make everyone happy i'm there to make the people i love and my fans me happy so i think it's the knowing that you know glennon talks about in her books also is that knowing like when you sit with yourself you know what is real and what isn't and what really does make you happy for me it's laughter it's skiing it's fun with my friends it's having chaos around like i love chaos i love tons of people in my house i love that especially when i'm downstairs or upstairs out of it and i can hear it from afar i'm like that is joyful to me you know like i'm not in charge, but it's around.

And we've been dealt this whole card our whole lives about what we're supposed to do.

And it's like, instead of actually thinking and drilling down about what we really want, we're always trying to make everyone else happy.

And when you're making other people happy, that's not a recipe for your own happiness.

So it is about listening to yourself.

It's about listening to who you are and the stillness.

And also, I get that from meditation to understand who I am.

And, you know, there was a period of time.

I don't know if I spoke about this last time I was on this podcast, but there was a period of time after therapy.

Like I thought, okay, I'm going to go to two years of therapy and then great.

And then I'll be done and I'll be fixed.

But the application of what you learn in therapy after therapy is also its own thing.

And the self-awareness that comes with therapy leads to a lot of self-criticism, immolation, where you're like, oh my God, I was so embarrassing.

I can't believe I used to act like that.

I can't believe I went off on this person in front of all of that comes up.

And that is not not happy.

That is unpleasant.

And those feelings are like enveloping you.

And you're kind of ashamed.

At least I was ashamed of my behavior.

And then I got to a point where I realized like, okay, the past is the past.

All you have control of is making a new impression to anyone you've offended, to anyone you were not nice to or kind to, or anyone you blew off or whatever.

When those wagons circle around again, you have an opportunity to make a new impression instead of beating yourself up for what what has been because there's nothing you can do about that.

And I know the saying, like the adage, there's nothing you can do about the past.

I don't even think it's an adage.

It's just a sentence, but you like, there really isn't.

All you can do is pivot and focus on who you are going to be moving forward.

And with that comes a lot of calm because you're like, yeah, I can handle that.

I'm not going to fuck up again in that way.

I'm going to actually be more graceful and act with more aplum moving forward.

And there's a lot of freedom in that.

And that is a daily practice.

That's like, okay, every day I'm on it to be better than I used to be, you know, instead of harping on that, because a lot of people get stuck in that, you know, or they're working towards the future.

And that's the other thing that I've learned through meditation.

And I do a lot of guided meditations.

It's like, you can't be worried about the past or the future when you, I mean, obviously we're all worried about the future.

We're all thinking about whatever, the election, your children, college, careers, blah, blah, blah.

But really, to be present in each moment is a gift that we give ourselves.

and it's up to us to kind of cultivate that and i'm not like a you know corny person i'm a realist so if i know about it and i'm telling people about it it's true and it works

you're very buddhist are you buddhist no i'm not buddhist okay but i love that body type yeah

I have a new dog, Doug.

He is full-bodied.

And I call him Buddha all the time because I love, there's nothing I love more than a full-bodied dog.

Okay.

So you're a little Buddhist is what you're saying.

Yes, yes.

And Buddhish.

She's

Buddhish.

Buddhish.

It's onto something.

But is it possible, you guys, this is what I suspect

that there's really no such thing as personality as like something that's inherent to who we actually are.

Like I think that the reason why meditation, therapy, all of this stuff works is because it does make you realize that you are just a collection of adaptations, survival adaptations, and that who we actually are underneath that, which we usually only get like glimpses of, is what you're describing is this awareness, this consciousness, this beauty, this joy, this peace, this full presence, that that is actually what we are at our core is just like this pure, beautiful awareness.

And everything else is shit we put on to like make it through this earth.

But like who we are,

of course, we all develop personalities, but I think who we are is that, is who we are in meditation.

Yeah, it's our essence, right?

Like, our essence is the best version of ourselves, the purest version of ourselves, like ebullience, you know, like lightness and joy.

Not everyone is that, but deep down, yeah, I think we all are that.

It's exactly what you're saying.

And I always think of that.

Like, I always think, okay, what's my essence?

Because when I'm not firing at 150, it's like, well, that my essence is up here.

Am I going to meet my essence?

Like, the essence is the best version that you have of yourself.

Yes.

And it's pure.

And that's why it's hilarious to think that it's selfish or whatever to do these things, to go to therapy, to meditate, because what the world needs is that version of you in the world.

When you do those things and then you expose yourself to the world, you are what everyone on earth needs to be around.

And also when you really are centered and focused and you're doing all of your healing and all of those things you are lending light to other people also so like you you're giving back without even knowing it because that's why people are attracted to you that's why people want to be around you because they want that energy they want that vibe they want to feel good they want to laugh they want to have fun and i used to think of that as a responsibility almost like an onus like oh god i can't go to this party everyone's going to expect me to be the life of the party

no one's expecting you to do that but if it's your choice and you love doing that then that's a different set of, you're putting the blame on others for your own kind of, you know, what you like about yourself.

And that's where you get tricked up, I think, or at least that's where I got tricked up, where I thought I had a responsibility and then it became a burden, like to have a personality, to be like I am.

And I'm like, wait a second.

No, no, no, no, no.

This is who I am.

Why am I blaming other people for wanting me to be who I am?

You know, that's not their responsibility.

That's my responsibility.

So you have to dig deeper and understand why you're upset that people want to be around you or that they like being around you.

You know, I mean, it's much better than people not wanting to be around you.

I mean, I speak for myself, Glenn, and I know you don't want people to be around you.

Correct.

Her real essence of not wanting people around you.

It's alone.

I actually disagree.

No, I'm a fucking delight these days.

I disagree with that now.

She's done a lot of work over the last couple of years.

And go on walk with a friend.

Yeah, you're doing that.

One or two people she has around her now.

Yeah.

Sometimes two.

But I understand so much what you're saying because actually I was sitting with Whitney in a car.

I've told the story many times, but in New York and I had to go into some meeting and do the thing.

I said, I don't know.

I can't.

I don't think I can do this.

And she said, all you have to do is be yourself.

And I said, Whitney, I do not know how much longer I can keep that up.

And awesome.

Oh, that's a great line.

But it's so true because it's like that thing that you're talking about

at the center of like this is my personality this is who i am

therefore wherever i go this is what people are going to expect of me and therefore that becomes like i'm performing my own personality for them yes right right with you and you are just

a comedy genius like you are so fucking funny

but it's hard for me to divorce that from what it seems to me like you grew up being funny because you felt that burden to make your family happy again, to bring laughter back into your home after you lost your brother.

So you did that to help the people around you.

And then in your life, that's expected of you.

It just seems like

maybe it doesn't matter where it originally came from.

Maybe that intellectual exercise that I keep being like, if it is born of trauma, if it is born of pain, then it needs to be eradicated.

Maybe that's bullshit.

That's the whole like not being present.

If presently right now, this is what I want and who I am, then it's okay.

Well, it's like turning your pain into purpose, right?

I mean,

what is pain if you don't turn it into something powerful?

And being able to make people laugh or smile or feel good is a gift and it's not a burden.

So I think until you, well, until I

did all of my own personal digging, I started to get irritated at the responsibility that was expected of me.

Like, oh, I have to go to this thing and they're going to want to this.

And

like just county attitude.

And then I flipped it.

And I was like, life can be so much easier when you're positive and when you're optimistic, even though sometimes that just seems unfathomable, it can be so much easier instead of fighting and resisting what's happening, going with it.

Like, for instance, I'm on tour, but I'm only doing Canadian dates while I'm here in winter because I like to be up here and Whistler and base myself out of here.

And,

you know, less guns.

I was like, oh, I don't even sometimes I'm like, oh, I have to go away this weekend.

Like, I have to go to Vancouver and then go to the airport.

And then, oh, I don't even allow that anymore.

I'm like, you're lucky that people are paying money to see you live.

You're so lucky that you get to live this life and that you get to go on stage in front of all these people that pay money to see you.

Do you know how grateful like I am now that I understand how lucky I am instead of being that kind of immature kid that was like, oh, oh, oh.

And I'm not talking about like, Glennon, I know, you know, it's different.

Everyone has anxiety or they have some situation they're dealing with.

I don't have lots of anxiety.

So it's not like I'm getting over something like that.

It is more natural to me, but the attitude shift wasn't something I was aware of.

And then once I started practicing it, like, just be grateful.

Like, I used to be annoyed with my agents.

I'm like, I don't want this.

They'd come to me with some offer.

I'm like, what, are you thinking I'm going to do that?

Like, just total.

Why?

Just like, if anything happens, anything, someone calls, the doorbell knocks, email, opportunity, ew.

Yes.

What?

Yes.

What is that?

I don't know.

It's just like, you're bothering me.

There's a mosquito on my shoulder.

Get away.

Like, I'm having a good time right now.

Don't bother me.

And once I was like, stop that.

Stop all of that.

Just be grateful for everything that comes your way, whether you're going to do it or not.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for bringing this my way.

Thank you.

Like now I send my agents, my publicists, my managers, whomever's on my team.

I'm always sending everyone.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't get an email without responding to it.

Actually, if anyone's listening to this, they're going to disagree because I'm sure that I have some emails I haven't responded to.

You are an amazing responder.

The one thank you.

That is the biggest gift that I have learned is just to be so appreciative and so grateful for everything that comes your way.

You're not too good for anything.

Just be appreciative.

And by doing that, all my relationships have changed.

All my professional relationships where it used to be like a level of irritation and like, oh, I have to go to this photo shoot.

You better tell them I can only do two hours.

It's like, yeah, you better tell them I can only do two hours, but I'm going to be in a really good mood when I get there.

Yes.

God, because it's changing your neural pathways.

Totally.

Exactly.

That's what's happening.

The thing happens.

It's not our fault.

We just made a habit.

It's like water goes into our brain and there's one path for it to go down, which is fuck, somebody else asked me to do something.

And you're just like stopping the water, putting it down a different pathway, which then it starts to go down there by itself, which is.

Actually, your experience of your day and every minute becomes joyful because the water's going down in gratitude instead of duty, I guess.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's That's been the biggest shift in my life.

Yeah.

I know now like situations like, no, no, don't go down that road.

If someone's really negative around me, I won't hang out with that person again.

If someone's complaining all the time, no, I don't have the bandwidth for it.

I'm here to spread happiness and light.

That's what I'm doing.

That's my job in life.

Is that whole agent

shift from

defensiveness?

and annoyance to gratitude.

I feel like that could be very, very, very much related to the whole self-centered thing we were talking about before.

Because if you don't center yourself, then it's actually the most selfish thing you can do.

Because then if you are not taking care of yourself, then every person around you.

Yep.

de facto, you are requiring them to take care of you.

That's what I do.

You are extracting from them the expectation that since I'm sacrificing myself to not take care of myself on y'all's behalf, you better be taking care of me.

Yep.

And then when you shift that and you're like, no, I've got me,

then the natural outgrowth of that is I don't have to be defensive and suspicious of you and worried that you're going to fuck me over because I'm not going to get fucked over because I'm taking care of myself.

God, that's it.

Yeah.

Like you're the tree.

I'm the tree.

You're not going to fucking blow me away.

I'm here to stay and I'm solid and I'm on my feet and I'm grounded.

Like grounded is the word of the last five years for me because I've never felt felt more grounded.

When you're flying around, you know, like a bunch of leaves, you can't help anyone.

You can't be a good influence on anyone.

You don't have the bandwidth for other people because you're not centered and there's nothing you can give because you're barely hanging on yourself.

So I think what you said is so beautiful.

Like that is so true.

You're giving a gift to the world when you get your own shit together.

Yes, you are.

And it's, it's, I don't got me.

That's what I was saying.

Every time somebody asked me for anything, I think it's fear.

Yes, it's genuine, real survival.

I don't know what my boundaries are.

I don't know how to get out of this if I need to.

I don't know.

So just fuck off all the time, you know, instead of like, oh yeah, come in because I know the second I feel like you not being here, I'll ask you to leave.

Like, I've got me.

So it allows you to be more generous.

Absolutely more generous.

And you're right.

I mean, what you said is so on the money.

It is selfish not to do the work.

It is selfish to

sit around in a state of irritation constantly at people and think they're tugging at you.

No, you put yourself in that situation to begin with.

So you owe it to everybody to do the work.

I mean, I've been dealing with this a lot in my life recently.

There's a lot of people in my life that are kind of at a crossroads or need some sort of intervention.

And I'll go the distance for people I care about.

I will go and I will sit with you and hold your hand until you get your feet underneath you.

But when someone isn't trying to help themselves, when you're trying to help them, you feel so not disrespected because it's not an ego thing.

It's just so disappointed.

You know, it's like it doesn't have to be this way.

When people are unhappy in their lives, you don't have to be that way.

It doesn't have to be that way.

And people think like that's the default.

And, oh, well, nothing works out for me.

And it's like, but there's a reason you can turn that around.

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How do we

take this grounded,

joyful energy

and maintain it

through this next time of our lives, which is going to be the election.

I need

you

to help us understand

because

just like I trust your happiness because of how you found it, I also trust your happiness because you do not get happy and then abandon all of us.

Like you get happy and you stay powerful and you stay engaged and you do not go to sleep like sleeping beauty.

You like stay civically aware and engaged.

So what are we going to do to not lose our shit like we did last time?

How are we going to stay grounded?

The good news is we've been through this once before.

So it's not the first time.

I'm not looking forward to this period of time at all.

But I also agree with you.

I'm not sitting anything out.

I did realize last time that my voice is much more helpful when I use a little bit more discernment

and

strategy rather than

like screaming and yelling about how much I hate Donald Trump and Ivanka's veneers.

We've already gone down this road.

And not that this wouldn't be worse if this were to come to fruition, but I know now how to calibrate my efforts and when to use my voice so that it's actually meaningful instead of just a cacophony of me shouting and yelling.

Like that's something I've learned too.

And I'm sure you guys can relate to that because it's like, we're all like,

you know, everything that's going on, you want to be involved.

And obviously, as a woman, this is

serious.

But I'm hopeful that this won't happen, that, you know, Trump doesn't get in office and that we do have another four years of Biden.

You know, I was talking to this kid yesterday and he was like, oh, well, student loans, I didn't get it.

You know, Biden fucked that up.

I'm like, Biden, what are you talking about?

Like, you don't even understand what's happening.

Biden didn't screw that up.

There's so much on the line here.

You think Biden as an 81-year-old, two-year-old, whatever, is excited to be the president again?

Like he is doing us a service.

So

let me not go off on that tangent.

I already did, but

I guess to answer your question, I don't have an answer to that question.

I don't know how we maintain joyfulness during this time, but I do know how to maintain optimism and not become a defeatist and to just keep looking, keep your eye on the ball and keep figuring out how to be engaged in what we're dealing with, how to help educate people, how to use your voice in ways that are going to be beneficial instead of just screaming and yelling all the time.

But I don't have an answer if the worst thing does happen, what we do then, because that is despair.

Yeah.

On behalf of women everywhere.

You know, we talked about this last time he was elected.

Like, yes, women like me maybe aren't so affected.

I can afford to leave the country.

I can afford to get an abortion if I need one.

I mean, if I do need one, that would be a big surprise because I'm 49.

But, you know, you're fighting for the next generation.

We're fighting for the children of this country.

We're fighting for the future of this country.

And I think there's a lot of optimism in that, just by nature of wanting the best for people.

And to just keep that.

We want to move forward.

We want to keep the ball rolling forward lends itself to optimism without looking at every loss like,

and also, I think it's very, very healthy to not be in it every single day.

Every single day.

You know, not to be reading the news.

There's no reason we have a two-year ramp up to an election.

Who wants to fucking listen to this noise for two years?

You know, we could have skipped Ron DeSantis altogether.

Like, why would we be paying attention to that when he's not even a nominee?

So I don't know.

I mean, I'm all over the map with that.

I don't think I answered your question, but I do.

think that optimism is necessary to achieve the goal, the intention, and to educate people.

They're both 82 years old.

Okay.

Do you want someone who cares about people or do you want the other

Yeah, it feels like we're going to have to, it feels like we're going to have to do what we did and you did with the gratitude neural pathways.

That's how I feel.

Like I have to figure out a way to change my neural pathways every time I hear something meant to ruin my day.

Like it has to be like, nope, not that.

Every time it has to be that I'm forcing the water to another thing that's like, that's awful.

What am I going to do and say that's smart, strategic, careful, responsible.

Exactly.

It's not just self-indulgent, but that is actually helpful.

Yes, right.

And you're getting information.

Everything's a data point, right?

We get information, then we know how to be active.

So even if it's bad information, it gives us knowledge and information for us to move forward in a different direction.

You know, okay, we've got to combat this now.

Now we have to fight for this.

It's not a defeatist like, oh, the world's ending because that's how I was the first time.

And I refuse to let that happen again.

I'm not going to be, you know, sitting there watching the news on a 24-hour spin cycle.

It's cancerous.

Yes, it is.

And on the deepest level,

because there's the like top level of public engagement, you know, how do we get people to not go numb, to not ignore it, to stay engaged?

And there's the strategy level.

And then there's also the deeply personal level

of

when you are a person with self-respect.

Rage is a very reasonable, visceral response to

who the fuck are these people

trying to tell me and actually telling me what I can do with my body?

Who are these people trying to tell trans people that they don't have a right to exist and they can't get their kids the health care that they need?

So I'm just talking about like at the cellular level during the last election,

I am for sure it took a couple of years off my life.

My actual wellness and being because of the way that my body metabolized that rage and fear.

And

I just, as a matter of justice, can't let those people who are trying to ruin my life actually ruin my body too and my experience of life.

So

have you found a way so that you can metabolize that rage instead of letting it metastasize like you're talking about it becoming a cancer?

Like,

how does it move through you when you hear those things?

I don't have so much weight on

everything the way that I used to.

Like, every decision that comes down that, like, you know,

now, you know, an embryo is a person.

Like, that's so stupid that I can't even, I'm like, I don't have time to even consider this.

It's just too dumb.

And that's not the answer because it does affect people.

The level of ridiculousness makes it almost comical.

Like you're like, I can't even participate in going back and forth about that because it's too stupid.

It's like you telling me the skies is green when it's blue.

I'm not going to sit there and talk to.

I was on the chairlift the other day.

And I was with a friend of mine and he and I were going skiing and this woman's next to us.

And we were just talking about how Taylor Swift, how she's crushing it, how she is like the most powerful person in the world right now.

And with regard to the election, oh, I wonder, you know, what her plan is.

If she's going to do something.

And the woman on the chairlift was sitting at the end said, well, you know,

I don't believe Taylor Swift is who she says she is.

And it's a beautiful day.

There's snow everywhere.

And I look and I said, I'm sorry, what?

And she says, I don't believe Taylor Swift is who she says she is.

If you read about the cabal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I said, Miss.

And I said this in the most, with the most sunny disposition.

I said, please don't speak again.

Please, I'm having a wonderful day.

You seem great, but that is really, really stupid.

And I don't want to hear about a cabal on my day off.

Meanwhile, I've had like 30 days off, but she doesn't know that.

And then she was telling me, I've spent a lot of time researching this.

I go, well, then that's really sad that you're researching Taylor Swift being part of some sort of Republican cabal.

This is, this is not critical thinking.

And she started to go in.

I go, Miss, I have to tell you, you have got to stop talking to me.

You have to stop talking to me.

I don't have time for this in my, like, in my brain.

And that's how I feel.

Don't bother me with your thoughts.

Go over there and think them.

Don't impress them upon me.

I'm not open to them.

And I don't have to yell and scream at you anymore.

I just have to be firm that I'm not interested in or open to hearing about it.

Yeah.

That's a different approach, though.

That's a different approach.

My job is not to convince you of anything.

Like, that is a neuropathway, right?

Like, I have recently figured that out.

Just recently.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm supposed to analyze everything, do what helps me sleep at night.

And that is my job.

But my job is actually not to explain it 17 times to every single person who disagrees with me.

Oh my God.

That's so helpful.

Exactly.

I used to fucking argue with anyone.

I'd go at it.

And now I'm like, no, no, no, no.

I don't hate to argue with you.

And also, I smile now when I'm saying things like that.

I'm not yelling or screaming.

I'm like,

that's fun.

Please stop talking to me.

That's it.

I had this guy the other day.

I was writing about this.

I had this guy.

This is a few months ago.

I pulled up to a parking meter.

And, you know, I've had trouble with men my whole life.

So I get out and I run into this nail salon because I forgot my wallet.

And he goes, Miss, Miss, you didn't feed your meter.

And I looked at him and I went, yeah,

I know.

It's me.

I'm me.

And that's the meter.

And I know I didn't feed it.

I'm sorry.

I go, what are you getting at?

He goes, well, you're going to get a ticket.

And I said, but why do you care what I'm doing?

Like, I'm, you think this is my first interaction with a parking meter?

Look at me.

I'm in my 40s and I'm smiling.

Like I wasn't yelling at him.

Right.

And, you know, because when you're dealing with men, you have to be soft because otherwise they're like,

you're a bitch.

And I'm like, no, no, no.

I go, I'm just so curious.

Why do you care?

Like, why are you so invested in my parking meter?

He's like, well, I'm trying to help you.

And I go, but would you say that to a guy?

Would you, if a man pulled up here and didn't pay his meter, would you scream after him saying, sir, you forgot to feed your meter?

He's like, absolutely.

And I go, Okay, just think about that.

Just, I'm going to stay here with you.

I put my arm on his shoulder.

I go, let's think about it together.

Would you really?

And then he went, oh.

And I went, so what you did just now could be construed as thoughtful.

I think you thought you were being thoughtful.

And that is nice that you're being thoughtful.

But just think about what it's like to be a woman and having some strange man who's not a meter maid telling you to feed your meter.

I go, it's a bunch of micro-annoyances.

And throughout the day, when you have enough of those, they become macro.

And then you become the enemy.

And now I have to man explain to you why women are so annoyed with men.

Like, you wouldn't say that to a man, and you know, you wouldn't.

And he was like, No, you're right.

I wouldn't.

And I never got aggressive because I know now that that doesn't get your point.

You know, you can't land your point when you're yelling or screaming.

That's a loss of control.

So it's so much funner to be smiling.

So much funner.

So much more fun to be smiling.

Actually, I'm going to go back to funnel.

It's going to be,

it's so much funner to just be like flirty almost, you know, when you're going at it with someone, to be jocular and flirty and be like, isn't that funny that you did that?

Don't you think it's funny?

That's from your groundedness.

That's from your groundedness.

That's more, and I'm not scared that you just did that.

I've got me.

So let's have some fun with this.

Yes.

I have a theory about the next election and you two handled the last election very similarly.

I'll just tell you that I know separately the daily experiences.

I think this election is going to be a little bit easier for you no matter what happens, Chelsea, because of the work you've done personally.

I think

that, yes, all of this shit is about the country and politics and justice, but I also think it's about our experience in our childhood homes.

Like I truly think that all of the shit around the strong man, no bodily autonomy, all of it is cellularly, it activates, it triggers stuff from being a little girl.

Absolutely.

And also the sentiment, because that behavior and that male dominance feels so dated and out of style.

Like when you meet a man, of which there are many now, that actually sit and listen to women.

Actually, Canadian men are very,

they let the women kind of run the show up here.

And I respect them because they know that we're smarter and that we're capable, you know and they're not they're not meek or anything like that they're just respectful of women in a way that it's like i there's something about canadians you know people are like oh they're vanilla or whatever i'm like no it's nice it feels even

it feels equal and men respect you more so than i think in the states because that quality and that kind of toxicity of men knowing what's best for us is dated and it is out of style and the way forward is not through that so i wouldn't be surprised if Trump won, but I would be surprised if what feels like the very beginning of an enlightenment period that we're living through that will go well beyond the time that we are here, what we need is, right, this huge awakening that people talk about and spiritualists talk about.

And I feel like our conversations.

in the world about gratitude, about, you know, everyone now is therapy forward.

People are, don't look at it.

People in England are going to therapy and they're the last ones.

Are they?

So we're the last men standing.

So there is something happening here.

There is a movement.

And if that involves Trump serving another term, fine.

But hopefully that's not true.

But we are at it, I feel like at the precipice of a tipping point where people are really becoming aware and awake about their spirituality and about everything we're talking about, about who you really are and your energy and that we're just a bunch of cells created here to make the world a better place, not a worse one.

And you're protecting your energy.

What you're talking about with your approach to, I am not going to take my precious, beautiful energy and throw it towards these aggressive voices and match them with aggressiveness.

You are,

again, respecting yourself by saying, I'm putting my energy where it is valuable.

I mean, it makes me think of when dad used to always say growing up, don't wrestle with pigs.

You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

That is what it feels like when we feel like we have to match crazy with crazy.

You can just let crazy be crazy and use that energy to be in community with not crazy.

And it's the same amount of energy.

Exactly.

And when crazy is left alone, crazy just goes and spins into a cyclone.

Like you're a grounding force.

So when crazy gets you, they're feeding off of your energy and using you to ground them.

And And it's like, I'm not your grounding.

I'm my grounding.

So you stay away from me and you have no opening to me.

Yeah.

I mean, really, the only thing crazier than really spending your one wild and precious life researching whether Taylor Swift is a cabal situation is choosing to have a conversation

with someone who has

dedicated their life to researching whether Taylor Swift.

Right?

Like that is so.

Also, yeah, I said to this woman, our final, I go, but just also, I go, even if that's true, like say Taylor Swift is an avatar or whatever you think she is.

I don't know, the spaceman, I'm not even sure what you're talking about, but say that's true.

I go, what are you going to do about it?

What are you going to do about it?

I want to have a good time.

I'm here to have a good time.

So that doesn't fit into my good time.

Chelsea.

I just fucking love you so much.

So are you just never going to come home then?

No, I'm coming home.

I'm coming.

okay okay i'm wrapping up i'm wrapping up here i have to go back to work you know at some point okay all right well text us when you get home

i will i will i sent you a bunch of edibles but you didn't take them so i'm disappointed in that oh you know stop wait how did i accidentally get high recently Wow, you've been on a real tear.

I think you sent me.

Plus, there was that walk, Chelsea.

Don't forget the walk she did with her friend.

No one, hold on, I'm writing it down.

What's the date?

We were sent some THC gummies that Glennon thought that they were CBD gummies.

Chelsea sent me a big basket.

It was all CBD, which by the way, I don't think does anything.

All right.

It doesn't.

It doesn't.

It does nothing.

I mean, it's candy, so that's nice.

I'll eat it.

But so I ate all that.

Nothing happened.

I came home from a trip and she was just acting a little strange.

I'm like, what the fuck?

I asked her, I was like, are you okay?

And like, I felt scared of you.

I was like, I feel scared of you all of a sudden.

What's going on?

And all of a sudden, I realized that there were this thing that somebody had sent us.

And I looked close and it was like five THC, five grams of THC.

I took a few of them and I thought they were CBD.

I was trying to watch Love is Blind and I said, Abby, this is when she figured out I was high.

I was like, I can't understand any of their intentions.

I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

She's like, I had one of these.

And I was like, oh my God, you're stoned.

You're stone loop.

Listen, I send these packages out all the time, and a lot of people I never hear from again.

So, I wonder what's happening

because I always get hit up.

CBD doesn't do anything, it's like you might as well just rub it on your body.

Yeah, you know, it doesn't have any impact.

No, it's quite disappointing, it's a waste of time, yeah,

but you are not a waste of time, and we love you.

Go ski.

Thank you for this hour.

You're a damn joy.

I love you guys.

Bye, Abby.

Bye.

I feel like we never have enough time with Chelsea, but if you would like to listen to more of Chelsea, we did an incredible episode about love and breaking up and how to survive it all.

It was episode 115 called On Breaking Up and Being Unbreakable.

Check that one out.

All right.

We love you and we will see you back here next time.

Bye.

If this podcast podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.

First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

This is the most important thing for the pod.

While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

We appreciate you very much.

We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey.

Our executive producer is Jenna Wise-Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lograsso, Dina Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.

Also by by Allison Schott and Dina Cabana.