280. Valentine’s Day: You Must Listen to This–Huge Surprise!

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Okay, it's the most lovable time of the year.

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things, folks.

Oh my God, it is so perfect that you jumped in to do the introduction with all of your excitement because of the topic that we're talking about today it's your baby it's my favorite what is it we are talking about valentine's day the best day of the year no it is not the holidays that you've come to think of and love and know it is the heart holiday my favorite Have you always loved Valentine's Day, Abby?

Yeah, well, I've always loved love.

And so this is like the day that I get to express it.

And it's funny because it's just something that's in me.

I don't expect anything.

Don't worry, babe.

I don't expect you to like go above and beyond.

But I love Valentine's Day.

I like walk around and I'm looking for the people who are love and in love.

And, you know, back in the day when we used to go to restaurants, it was like my favorite time to go to the restaurant.

And there was like hearts and red everywhere.

Do you believe that?

There are two types of people and we are talking about both of them today?

And Abby represents a caricature of one of them.

So, Valentine's Day is hilarious because it is

hilarious.

The holiday that people love

or they love to hate.

Right.

It is a very fascinating thing.

So, what does it tell about us, our approach?

to Valentine's Day.

Well, just for me, it just makes me know when people are like in hatred of Valentine's Day, they're just not good people.

Well, it's interesting that you said you love it or you love to hate it.

I like that framing because it's not like you love it or hate it.

It's like something about your identity.

You're either attached to yourself as a lover of love

or you're attached to yourself as a cynic of a love and your belief that everything is just capitalism.

Well, people who love to hate on Valentine's Day, I don't think would say that they

love to hate love.

I think that they would say that Valentine's Day is like this manufactured, inauthentic misrepresentation

of love.

But there is a little thou doth protest too much.

If you're very, very excited to slam on it, then maybe there is a little something else happening.

The way that I think about it is a little bit like your choice in movies.

Okay.

Now hear me out.

Okay.

This is a big generalization, but I think that I might be right.

Okay.

So there's a kind of person that can sit down and watch a movie.

Sometimes it's like a rom-com, right?

Usually it is for you, Appy.

Exactly.

I love rom-coms.

I love a happy ending.

I even love like a sad ending, but there's some sort of love situation that's happening.

And then you have other kinds of movie watchers.

I know you're looking right at me for a reason who scoff

at any wrong.

Scoff is a good word, just general disdain and contempt.

When we're choosing a movie and I'm like, I don't know, love actually, although you think you like love actually.

I mean, listen, the notebook, get me out of here with the notebook.

One of my favorite movies of all time.

I've never seen the notebook.

Oh my God.

What do you want?

Not what your mom or your dad wants.

What do you want?

Oh my God, it's so good.

Oh God, I can't.

I watched it three times.

If you're a bird, I'm a bird.

That's sweet.

So whenever we're trying to pick a movie, Glennon often scoffs at my movie choices.

I'm sorry.

Because I think, and correct me if I'm wrong here.

You really value your time and I want to give that to you.

And

I think that you don't want to be the kind of person that watches rom-coms.

No, it's not it.

It's the same thing as Valentine's Day.

It's like...

But you don't want to be the kind of person that watches rom-coms and likes Valentine's Day, because I think that you look down on those kinds of people.

No!

No, wrong.

Wrong.

See, you people,

you people think we're bad.

No, I don't think you're bad.

I just think you're misguided.

All right.

In our culture.

Which culture are we talking about right now?

America.

Culture of the two of you.

America.

No, non-lesbian culture, not our whatever.

In America, let's just say.

The Western world.

I feel like having a romantic partner that is like a good, solid, healthy bond is like the most over-celebrated, overemphasized thing in the entire world.

Overvalued, over-celebrated, all the things.

Okay.

I don't think that people who are killing it in that area need a day

where then they get to celebrate that thing publicly and make everybody else feel worse.

It's like, why don't we just in March?

Which is like Men's History Month?

Exactly.

Why don't in March we just have a financially independent day?

Everybody who has lots of money, they just get to post their money on Instagram and be like, yay, money.

I love money.

Romantically happy people.

I am one of them.

We don't need a day to rub that in everyone else's face.

We already have, do you know what I'm saying?

But I don't think that that's what it's about.

I don't think that Valentine's Day is about rubbing it in other people's faces.

It feels like it is.

I know that you think that I remember being in relationships before

and not feeling the ways.

and the comfort and the joy that I feel in this marriage and this relationship.

And like, I feel like I celebrate it almost every single day.

You do.

That's true.

You do.

And I feel like, why not take that door?

What's wrong with, that's the good door.

But that's because you're beautiful and loving and embodied and you know what love is.

And that's like knowing the other person.

And knowing the other person so much that you're making little gestures to make that person feel seen and make their life easier.

It feels like, okay, and just let me try to explain it.

I'm going to let you.

It feels like it's a check the box kind of situation where okay it's february 14th so i have this partner so now i'm gonna do the little bare minimum thing that means i'm gonna get the box checked on that thing so i'm gonna go get like the freaking chocolates chocolates

Was there a time when women couldn't buy their own effing chocolates?

And so that was supposed to be a big deal?

Yes.

Well, there was a time when women couldn't buy their own anything.

So yes.

The answer to all of that is yes.

We're still in that.

But here's my point.

I can fucking buy chocolates anytime I want.

I can buy my own chocolates.

Yeah.

Why don't you celebrate that under your financial independence?

I think I will.

But my point is you had heterosexual marriages or a marriage and relationships before

that you felt like maybe it was like this one day that like the dude would check off box.

And then I had to act grateful for that thing.

Okay.

But then now

you aren't in one of those marriages, one that.

But I feel sad for everyone who is.

I feel defensive and protective protective of everyone who is don't you think that this is an exercise in not letting yourself actually feel happiness and joy for yourself or what you do have it feels like at every turn you're like no sister and i are like i'm not gonna celebrate that you are smart enough to come up with every reason not to celebrate love Okay, I believe that because on Mother's Day, I feel exactly the same way.

Yes.

I feel worried about every single person who is going to watch all the posts.

Yeah.

Because guess what?

Guess what?

We don't need to celebrate.

People who have healthy relationships with their mothers.

That's another thing.

What the hell?

We need to reverse engineer all the holidays and be like, this Valentine's Day is for people who never have found romantic love and it's their fucking day.

And Mother's Day is bad Mother's Day, opposite Mother's Day.

It's only for people who are lacking in that area and everyone else has to shut up.

Yeah.

I mean, you are in it for the person with the least amount of power.

That's like the lens in which you look out at.

But what I would say is that you bypass your own joy and your own gratitude and your own ability to, like,

I don't know, foster the love inside of yourself for you.

I think that is correct.

I think she nailed it.

Yeah, I think she did.

I think for creative lovers like y'all,

it is cool.

A sweet little,

you know, another place to stumble around into some reveling in your love.

That's great.

But for folks who like aren't in as creative

relationships,

I feel like it's both too much and not enough.

This idea that if you're not

having love

expressed and honored throughout the year, this one day of these very cookie cutter gestures are supposed to be the salve that gets you through.

It's patronizing.

Yes, it's patronizing.

And it's patronizing as shit.

And

if you get that, that's supposed to be the

end all be all.

But then if you don't even get that, it's like there's a thousand ways to lose Valentine's Day.

And the win is ungratifying.

There's no real win of it.

And I think cynicism comes out because cynicism is a mistrust of motives, right?

That's what cynicism is.

Thank you.

Say that again.

Cynicism is a mistrust of motives.

Yes.

And I think we get cynicism in Valentine's Day because it feels like the epitome of insincerity.

Like we are supposed to believe that 90%

of people woke up on this one day and were like, you know what I wish to do spontaneously and out of the abundance of my overflowing love for my person?

I'm supposed to do this gesture of love.

And then 95% of those people spontaneously and of their own volition and creativity decided to do two things, get some roses,

get some chocolates, and or if they're feeling spendy, go out to a dinner where they have a 15-minute interval with the tables pushed so closely to one another that they're being cycled in and out on a price fix menu.

Okay.

Like that doesn't feel sincere to us.

No.

Because it cannot be.

No.

It's like everyone's just trying not to fuck up until they're doing the things that they're supposed to do.

And then you feel angry.

This makes sense to me a little bit more for you two because I would, sister, I'm going to put you in Glennon's camp where you're a little bit anti.

I think that's safely.

Okay.

I'm not into, I'm not anti-Valentinian.

You're just meh.

I'm

pro

being loving in the way you can all the time.

Okay, but hear me out here.

Do you think this has something to do with, first of all, the vulnerability of it and like the sincerity?

I'm not great with sincerity.

Because I think when these gestures come out.

I'm not great with sincerity.

Can we just loop back with that?

What do you mean you're not great with sincerity?

She?

I'm not great with sincerity.

I'm not great with it.

I don't know how to sit with it.

You're not great with people trying?

No, her, her, her.

Just in love.

Just in love.

Yeah.

With friends and my children, I'm great with sincerity.

With a romantic person, it's something.

I'm literally in therapy trying to work on not cracking up when Abby tells me that her feelings are hurt.

I can't not burst into laughter, sister.

It is awful.

And now

I'm like,

I don't even want to laugh.

I don't want my wife's feelings to be hurt.

But then she says the thing and I'm staring at her and she's so vulnerable and precious.

And then I think of the fact that I'm not supposed to be laughing.

And it's like the stay puffed marshmallow man from Ghostbusters.

And so now all I'm trying to do is not laugh.

I don't even know what her feelings are hurt about.

And then it just comes.

It just comes.

Okay.

But you do have an issue with any kind of big gestures or like

sincerity.

And I do think that big gestures i don't like big gestures in the end it's like the ability to hold the vulnerability of certain moments that are out of your control i also am i am paranoid about being patronized and let me just throw this out there okay

i

feel like

our culture is like okay the women are like you know still talking about how they need stuff like they just won't go dead enough so here's here's what we're going to do.

We're going to give them this one fucking day, all right?

Valentine's Day.

We'll give them Women's History Day, whatever the hell we have.

And we'll give them a wedding day.

Why do you think that some women turn into such bridezillas on their wedding day?

Because they know it's the one effing day their whole entire life that anyone has to honor their needs, pay attention to their feelings.

The stakes feel so high because it's not part of our

life experience

to be centered, celebrated, honored, served.

Yeah, but that's right.

There's no male zillos or whatever they're called because

groom zillows.

Yeah, but honey, that isn't your experience in this marriage.

I know, I'm just annoyed for everyone.

I understand, but like...

What that also does is to be annoyed for everyone, it limits your ability to be happy.

I really do understand what you're saying and you keep coming back to this.

And that is because you are correct.

It's interesting, though, because I wonder how many people

is it possible to be individually satisfied and then also be skeptical and annoyed of the whole thing.

Yeah, can I be both?

Can I be both?

Because I do feel happy and in love and also suspicious of the motives

patriarchy and capitalism.

But that's not what this is.

Your Valentine's Day is hopefully about me.

It's not about the world.

It's part about

patriarchy.

It's about our experience.

And we love each other.

We don't adhere to the world's rules on patriarchal ideals and all of that.

That's true.

Yeah, but you're not talking about fucking Valentine's Day then.

Yeah, we're talking about Valentine's Day.

Merca.

Markah's Valentine's Day.

But I am going to say one thing about this.

I feel like this is what my therapist would say right now, so I'm going to throw this in.

Okay.

Because what I will tell you is that Abby is usually right about me.

All right.

So flagging that in my brain,

I think it is easier for me to live in my head about things.

And my head, all my head is, is just a jukebox

of complaints

about

the world.

Okay.

That's comfortable for for me.

But I think that love, and what you're saying is, can you please have an embodied experience with me?

Yeah.

Can you be in your life, in your body, in your home, in your marriage, in your whatever?

And that is a little bit trickier for me to drop into my own experience to be embodied instead of intellectualizing everything.

Sure.

But what I hear you saying is that that is sometimes keeping me from an embodied experience of love, which I think my therapist would agree with.

I agree.

And I also think I'll just say this: I know you, and it doesn't hurt my feelings.

That's the good news.

I'm not taking on

your, I'll celebrate it.

But the truth is, we actually, I feel like we're all year long Valentine's Day peeps.

Like we just do weird, cute little things for each other a lot.

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What about you, Sissy?

I feel like when we're talking about this Valentine's Day as it's been like constructed and sold,

I don't think it's working for very many people.

On average,

Americans spend $24 billion

on Valentine's Day.

B, billion dollars.

Whoa.

Three out of 10 Americans go into credit card debt from Valentine's Day spending.

Oh, jeez.

And 43% of them hide that debt from their partner.

Oh.

And 46%

of people receive Valentine's Day gifts they don't like.

Yeah, that's true.

This is a model that is not working.

Okay.

We've got a third of the people going into debt and then half of those people hiding it from their partners.

So like celebrating deceit in the celebration of love.

And then the half of people who get the gifts don't like them.

So I just feel like

maybe we could take the way of doing it.

And maybe mix it up a little bit.

So it's working for the actual participants in the Valentine's Day.

So I think maybe just trying something a little bit different

rather than the rote thing

is the way that's good to do it like for me flowers never

never with the flowers why not i just feel like okay

here is this thing

that

one must feign surprise over which is literally the least surprising thing that anyone could come up with

but then

it's something else that i get to take care of by cutting the stems and putting them in the water and then watching them quickly die.

And finding a vase.

Who has a vase?

Just handy.

Also, don't worry because I paid for half of these.

This is what I don't understand.

It's like cash at me, you know?

Like anything other than I'm paying for half of something to watch it slowly die, but that's me.

And then I have to give you a thank you for it.

And that's when I really get annoyed.

And then like the cards, the cards, to express my individual love for you, I'm going to give you this poem that some dude at Hallmark wrote at a table to express my particular love to you.

Also, that card will be $7.95.

Yeah, but none of us are fucking as good at writing as you guys are.

It's not about writing.

It's about knowing the person and expressing your particular

appreciation for them.

Of course, that's such a big element of it.

But I also want to like acknowledge the people out there in the world who are listening to this that might actually love the idea of Valentine's Day.

Yes, let's talk about them because I love that for them.

I wish that for myself.

Yeah, because here's the thing.

There are some people out there that don't have the daily, weekly, monthly check-ins.

of love with their partners and that this is the one day that they do get yeah and so i want to acknowledge those that are in relationships like that.

Yeah.

I would like to know people who are delighted.

Is there Valentine's Day every day practices that people have that really make them?

Because really the truth of Valentine's Day is I want to feel known and cherished

and delighted in, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll tell you one time I really did feel that.

And this was in,

I think I was in high school.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

No, it's not.

Listen, it's not what you think.

Oh.

Okay.

I was like, it wasn't me?

No.

And I, and I the one time in my everlasting life.

What the hell?

I remember early days our Valentine's Day was a thing.

You've quickly forgotten them.

Do you?

I want you to remind me.

Can you remind me in a minute, but can I just tell this high school story?

Okay.

So I had no.

boyfriend and all of my friends had boyfriends at this point.

I felt like I feel now about Valentine's Day, like here's the day where we go into high school, which is just a little microcosm of culture.

And all the people who are already just swimming in luck

will celebrate that luck.

It's like, I know, let's have a quarterback day.

Like, you already won, dude.

Okay.

There's a reason why that person won.

It's because they are abundance-minded.

Oh, my God.

Oh, here we go.

Here we go.

Here we go.

That's That's what it is.

Every quarterback in the country is winning because they have abundance high school mindset.

No, because they cultivated his abundance.

I'm saying not that he's 6'2.

There are people in the world that believe that they want a certain life and they will have a certain life and they do things to have that life.

I'm not saying that.

Is Abby bootstrapping us right now?

I know.

I'm not saying...

She gets to share.

I'm not saying that the football player doesn't deserve status.

Like, what I'm saying is

the people who find themselves in those positions deep down always knew that they were supposed to be in those positions.

And there's a reason that people believe that they are in particular supposed to be in certain situations.

And that's because people have told them that.

And sometimes

they're good looking.

And they've seen

and because they've watched so many images of other people who have done that thing.

And if they happen to look like that person,

that can really start seeming like self-confidence.

I understand what you're saying.

I just do believe that

for the most part,

aside from, you know, many factors, I do think that we have lives that we believe that we deserve.

That's sweet.

Can I tell you my Valentine's Day story?

Yeah.

Okay.

So I was

dreading the day.

Well, in high school, and they still do this shit, by the way,

they would have a thing where like a week before you could go in and buy heart things and then have them sent to people's classrooms.

So think about this, you'd be sitting in class and all day, all you'd be thinking is, oh, well, I'm not, and there's no way I'm going to get one.

But then every class, somebody would come to the door, hold some,

you know, little hearts, construction people hearts, and like read the names of the girls in the class who were going to get delivered the hearts, which of course were the same girls in every single thing.

Always Susie.

It's always fucking Susie.

And by the way, this is what Valentine's Day still feels like, right?

For a lot of people.

Like Susie, we already know Susie won.

Susie's dating the quarterback.

Okay.

Anyway, the point is...

Because she believed that she deserved the quarterback.

Oh,

she could, so she did.

She believed she could, so she did.

Anyway,

yes, baby, you're right.

Susie just had that something special inside

that you're going with her now.

manifesting since she was two.

Maybe my thought and my theory does not work all the way through.

I don't think anything is totally true, totally not.

I appreciate your thought.

And I do think that there's some of that that feels true, but there's a reason why I, as a child, did not think that I could be a quarterback, right?

And that's because a lot of reasons.

But you did believe that you could be a writer.

I didn't see.

But you could, you believed that you could be a writer.

Yeah.

That's because in the mental hospital, they taught me to write down my feelings.

And if you think I'm joking, I'm not.

That's exactly how I learned I could be a writer.

What happened in school?

Tell us.

Jesus.

Tell us.

Dying to know.

So I'm sitting in class just like

pissed off at Susie, right?

This is where it starts.

Susie.

Knock on the door.

Here comes the little person from, you know, student government who's going to pass out the Susie hearts.

But it, lo and behold, it is not.

It is the secretary, and she is holding flowers.

So this is big time.

Big time.

Oh, somebody stepped up their game from the construction paper to flowers.

So I'm like, oh, God, here we go.

Fucking Susie.

The secretary starts walking towards my place in the classroom.

And I'm like, what is happening?

What is going on?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

So I'm like starting to sweat.

Flowers are for me.

And I can't even explain to you how strange this is.

This is very strange to the point where I'm nervous because I'm like, oh my God, if I touch that card, it's going to show the people in the classroom that I actually believe this could be for me.

Oh, that's do you know what I'm saying?

Like, that's too vulnerable.

My God.

So I just sit there for a while and then I open the card and it says, from your secret admirer.

Oh

my God.

And I'm like, what?

I don't know.

Like, I don't have a clear memory of how long it took me to figure out that my dad had sent those flowers, but I don't think that he told me right away.

I don't really know exactly.

I remember spending at least a short amount of time feeling like perhaps I had a secret.

Of course.

I mean, I would have also deduced that.

But here, the reason why I think that that was the most beautiful, that's why, hello, it's not really about the flowers.

It's not about the thing.

Because those flowers meant everything.

And I don't remember what the flowers looked like because somebody had thought about about me and been like, oh, she's going to have a hard day for this reason.

And this is the thing

that she will need to change her experience.

And the intention that goes behind lots of these flowers, right?

Like.

The equivalent Valentine's Day of that would be like a partner thinking, what is going on in her life right now?

What is her emotional state right now?

And what is the one thing that would sweep in in a moment of this day and make her feel so seen, so known, and so loved that her heart would open a little bit and she would feel like somebody was looking out for her.

And that is not

what happens when somebody picks up flowers on the way home.

Yeah, it's like I'm trying not to get in trouble.

Not like I'm trying to

make my partner feel seen and known and loved.

I love it.

I think that that's completely correct.

And that is so sweet of your dad.

I know.

It's the public claiming to

that's what it is, too.

Because I think as cynical as we can be

about it ourselves,

it doesn't

help if the other person is like, I also agree, that's total bullshit.

It's not like that

helps us.

It's the idea of like,

I am going to do something public.

that says that even if all of this is ridiculous and made up and silly and wasteful, you're worth

wasting on.

And I want you to be publicly celebrated.

There's something about that piece of it too.

And I think that that's why you like me,

because I just give zero shits about what people think of me in terms of, what is it called?

My

gestures that I like to make, because I like to be like, Glenn and Doyle is my wife for whatever reason.

It's probably my wounds and insecurities, but I love telling people that you're my wife.

And

I don't know.

It's just like this day that I get to like

do it publicly without any kind of need for feeling of shame.

Hmm.

You know?

Sweet.

Okay, so if you are.

Before you move on, Cissy.

Yeah.

I want to know about you and what Valentine's Day actually is like for you like what are you expecting what will happen what do you wish were different talk about you and we just need the heterosexual experience

i think that both john and i are not big like

holiday

people like we genuinely like there's this whole like thread going around right now where women are like when i say i don't give a shit about valentine's day

i don't want to be psychoanalyzed about that that.

I really don't give a shit about Valentine's Day.

Don't try to like interpret me trying to be defensive of my deep wound of wanting Valentine's Day.

I just don't.

Because that's patronizing too.

Yeah, exactly.

So, I mean, I think that what I love about Valentine's Day, like John will often write me a note that says something real.

And

I really love the kid part of it.

We're still at the age where they all bring things to school and give things to each other.

Sweet.

I really love that.

And they get to like write notes to their whole class, which I incidentally learned was part of Hallmark's strategic plan to make it a competition at schools as to how many Valentines you could get instead of getting one special one from someone to sell more cards, which then I felt a little differently about my excitement about the school.

See,

do you see what I'm saying?

I hear what you're saying.

Thank you.

And I think I'm also correct.

No, I know, but you heard that.

That is un that is.

Yeah, go ahead.

Which is unfortunate.

But

I do.

Sponsored by Hallmark.

We can do hard things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's good.

I think it's a cool time to do something unexpected.

I just think unexpected is more interesting.

And so I like to think about somebody who

is important to us and our family and who we love, who we maybe don't usually

think

about.

And then

doing

something for them.

I love that.

Because it feels like unexpected and something that might actually delight instead of feel obligatory.

Yes, unexpected.

Yeah.

That's what's annoying about it is the expectedness.

You're saying feigning surprise about the flowers, even though it's the day that it's supposed to happen.

It's the easiest thing to check box.

And then you pretend that it's unexpected.

Right.

I don't like the pretending.

What if we just do it the day before Valentine?

Well, that's interesting.

You've got to think that these holidays, okay, so like holy days, that's the concept behind a holiday is it was a holy day, right?

Are you serious?

I mean, yeah, I think so.

Holy days, holidays, holidays, right?

I mean, it makes sense.

I just have never heard that.

So, like, there has to be something.

I believe that there's something beautiful and true to be celebrated for each one of them.

There's a kernel of truth, right?

So, there's a kernel of truth about Mother's Day, right?

Of course, this force that makes the world go around, that is nurturing, that is,

there's a way.

We have a friend who told us that our other friend, Sarah, this

woman had been trying to have a baby and and had tried for so long, and there was so much grief and so much pain.

And for Mother's Day one year, our other friend sent her this huge bouquet of flowers listing every single mothering energy that this woman had offered to this other person and in the world.

It had happened years ago, and our friend still talks about it as like the most amazing gesture.

And that's because to me, it was like that person took the kernel of truth behind that holy day

and let it swish around in their heart and their mind enough to have an offering come out that was like tied to the actual kernel of truth so beautiful right not the check the box not the like version of it that has been morphed with capitalism if you could remove that part of it that obligatory unthinking part of Valentine's Day and sit with the power of what love is and what it's meant in your life and let it swish around and then have some sort of offering to someone someone that maybe is not the most expected person

then it would feel

true and beautiful agreed agreed and if you're also having this you were talking about that bell hooks quote the other day about

when she said one of the best guides to how to be self-loving is to give ourselves the love we are often dreaming about receiving from others.

Yes.

Can you say it one more time, just slowly?

Yes.

One of the best guides to how to be self-loving is to give ourselves the love that we are often dreaming about receiving from others.

And

maybe that comes into play at sometimes about this day where if you, it's kind of like the birthdays conversation we were having.

If you have this,

these

dreams or yearnings that...

there's going to be this offering

of love that is what you need to receive, and then you don't get it, then it feels like this double letdown.

But maybe there's a way to think about in some ways for yourself, and then in some ways for even your friends or the people that you love, you might be best positioned,

even maybe more than their partner, to know what is the way

that they would dream about receiving that.

And like, could you do it for yourself?

And then one other person, why does it just always have to be that one person yeah why can't it be just anybody yeah

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Where did Valentine's Day come from?

My answer is heaven.

There is that.

Or hell.

Or hell, depending on who you are.

The short answer is that it is not clear which of these three St.

Valentine martyrs, Christian martyrs, it was named for.

But

there was like an ancient pagan ritual that was very scandalous and sexy and violent and crazy.

And then it was replaced very conveniently.

It was at the same time period as current Valentine's Day is.

It was replaced with Saint Valentine's Day in a way to eliminate the pagan rituals that were happening at the time.

And so one of the Valentine's

dudes that was killed,

the soldiers weren't supposed to be getting married because they thought it made them less strong.

And so

that

Valentine

was marrying them in secret, letting them get married in secret, and then was incarcerated and killed for it.

So that's one of the three that it could have been.

So that's the idea of believing in love and whatever.

I don't think we should underemphasize the importance of that bell hooks moment you just had.

Yeah.

Because I think I could get into Valentine's Day if it were something where we figured out what we wish someone else were going to do for us and then we just freaking did it for ourselves.

So when we imagine what all of these other millions of happy couples are doing in their homes.

I mean, you say it like you're not a happy couple, though.

True.

It's the weirdest thing when I hear you talk about this because it's as if you're not one of them.

I don't know what to say about that.

It's true, but we're also speaking for the pod squad and statistically, that's true.

I don't really think of things that way.

I think of things like widely.

I know.

I know.

That might be, and there it might lie the problem.

Is it a problem?

Or am I just looking out for anti-Susies everywhere?

Listen.

Like, there's only one Susie in every high school.

There's 4,000 not Susies.

So I don't think it's weird to think from the perspective of the not Susie.

No, I think that, I don't think that it's weird at all.

But in terms of being embodied, the thing that you're trying to work on, it feels like this could be an exercise to work on embodying.

I hear that.

I hear that.

I hear that.

But just saying, like, if we were to think of what we imagine

we would be getting on Valentine's Day, or we should be getting, and then that thing, what is it?

Is it rest?

Is it delight?

Is it

delicious food?

Is it

words?

Words of affirmation, you know, whatever those things are.

It sounds cheesy at first.

I think we're resistant to it because it feels like it wouldn't work.

Or it's in my experience.

There is something beautiful that happens when we just gather up our little vulnerable courage and say, I'm just going to think about that thing that I really want and find a way to give it to myself.

That's good.

And just to see how that feels in my body.

I desperately need a rest.

I'm going to find a time in the middle of the day on Valentine's Day to take a nap and like just figure out how that feels in my body to identify a need, not wait for it to come to the door.

And by the way, for people who have a couple, a partner who's going to bring them the flowers, you probably have to do that also.

Wait, what do you mean?

Well, because the check the box gift is usually not the thing that makes you feel seen and loved.

You're going to have to do that on top of getting the check the box gift.

Right.

So I would actually love to not dismiss that and try to see if they're, I will think about it and do something for myself, but I would love it if the three of us would do that.

And if the pod squad would just take a moment to think about what is the thing they are most likely to feel seen and loved by when they receive it and to try to give that to themselves and tell us the story of that.

Right.

What would be the name for that?

I don't know.

Just like claiming Valentine's Day as a time when you actually are going to get the love that you need because that's actually in your control sometimes.

Yeah.

I think that that's interesting.

And I also think that we can have these conversations with our partners.

Totally.

Yeah.

You could be like, I've been thinking about it and like, instead of going to dinner, I really want to like like take a nap after school.

And then I was thinking we could watch this movie.

You can have those conversations.

Okay.

So we have something that's about to happen that is like the most amazing thing that maybe has ever happened on this pod.

So just hold tight for that.

Do either of you, before we move on from that, know what that thing would be that you would give yourself, that you would hope somebody else would give you?

Because sister, when you imagine, what could

John do that you would be like so unexpectedly thrilled, loved by, because it would show that he knew you so well?

Like, what would that thing be?

I think I am always just over the moon for some kind of body work situation, massage or acupuncture or something that's just like, lay down and let someone do this.

planning that into a day.

Like, you have an appointment at one o'clock at this thing.

go do it.

That for me is always like

the height of

happiness.

I love that.

And might I add a level two to that?

If you are a partner whose other partner carries most of the mental load of the family and you walk in and say, I love you and I want you to feel seen and loved.

And so I'm sending you to this appointment.

Then what also has to happen during that time is the other partner in order to truly make this a love offering has to have thought through

what else needs to happen in that hour or two hours to keep the family flowing,

doing the things that the other partner would be doing during that time.

Before and after.

Exactly.

So if you just let the person go and then the person is thinking the whole time that when they come back, there's going to be a shit show, nothing's going to be done, the homework's not going to be done, the dinner's not going to be planned, then that is not a break, right?

That pisses me off.

Like Mother's Day, right?

Great.

You send your person away for two hours, but then they have to double down when they get home.

So it's not a gift.

Think through the whole day.

Think through.

And by the way, this is what should be happening every day, right?

This is annoying that it's just Valentine's Day, but it's a good start.

So

if you're going to give your partner a gift, also think through through all the other things that that person would be thinking, worrying about, carrying mentally for that time and present what will be done during that time where the person's gone.

Yeah, so that they can actually check out during the massage or whatever.

Will the dishes begin?

Will the laundry continue?

Will Johnny get to his birthday party?

Will this be, you know, all the 10 things that that person would have done in that two hours and nail all of them.

What would you like?

What would you do for yourself?

I

like times when our children feel, and then I'm going to the kids.

I'm so sorry.

But I do like times when our children feel obligated by their Gregorian calendar to hang out with me and be extra nice and be extra present

and give me stuff.

I like that.

Because I know that they love me, but I think it has to be like, they have to be ashamed ashamed to not do things.

That makes sense because that's the area where you probably feel like the least funneled through.

That's really interesting.

So, okay.

I like to be appreciated.

So like you would prefer mandatorily, like you would prefer Valentine's Day from the kids than from your romantic partner.

Like that would be your preference.

Maybe.

That's interesting.

And I get it.

Like I totally understand that.

What about you, Abby?

Yeah.

So we don't go out to dinner very often and it's my favorite thing.

And so what I would want is to take myself to like the nicest dinner, not like

just down the street.

By yourself?

No, ew, no.

I would want to go.

Ew, David.

I would want my, I mean, I would, I've done it, but I would want to go to a place that's super curated menu, super weird items, but they all taste good.

I just like going out to dinner.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Great.

But not all the time, just like once a year for Valentine's Day.

It's like, let's do it.

That's what I would give myself.

Love it.

Okay.

Great.

All right.

Now,

prepare yourself.

Prepare yourself for what's about to happen.

Sister, would you like to set this up?

I would just like to say that be you a cynic or a lover like Abby.

At the end of the day, we have come to what Glennon has called the kernel

of the truthieth truth about this, which is that love

exists and love is the reason the world goes round.

And

in this community of pod squatters, we have a vast amount of love for each other

and then pockets of beautiful love springing up all the days long.

So we have heard from our dear pod squatter friend, Erica,

who has called in

and invited the pod squad to be part of a very special happening

today?

And you,

in your lovey, lovey hearts,

get to be part of it right now.

Do not turn off.

This is the thing that you want to be listening to.

I'm telling you.

Okay, I'm ready.

Oh my God.

Hi, Glenn and Abby, and Amanda.

My name is Erica.

My pronouns are she, her.

her.

Before I ask my question, I just want to say that I love y'all so much.

I've listened to dozens and dozens of your podcasts, and my girlfriend, Juju, has listened to hundreds.

In fact, according to her Spotify rack this year, she's in your top 9% of listeners.

You three have helped us immensely in navigating our lives as women.

as recently out lesbians from conservative communities and as people desperate to learn how to love ourselves and the world better.

Thank you.

So in a surprising turn of events, my question today is actually not for y'all, but for my girlfriend, Juju.

But I should probably give a little context first.

Lennon, and I'm pinged, you ask, what is the truest, most beautiful story I can imagine for my life?

Well, my most beautiful story starts and ends with Juju.

I didn't believe in love at first sight until my eyes arrived on her, and I haven't looked away since.

From the very start, I was hers.

From the very start, it was the both of us.

Both condemned by the communities that raised us, but we both learned to accept ourselves anyway.

Both of us with our love for writing stories and studying theology and playing all the sports we possibly can.

Both of us constantly yearning for a more just world.

Juju, you are the greatest blessing.

I love everything about you, from how you built Casey Musgraves in the car to your contagious love for the underdog, your incomparable goofy dance moves.

You easily continue to fill out the ever-growing scroll that lists all the things I love about you.

One of my favorites I wrote back in 2021, it reads,

I love holding your hand, walking side by side, heading somewhere together.

Juju, I want to go somewhere with you, anywhere, as long as we're together.

So, finally, my question is:

Juju,

beyond my wildest dreams, girl, will you marry me?

What?

I mean, I'm like, I take it all back.

I love love.

I love love.

I take it all back, girl.

Beyond My Wildest Dreams Girl.

Juju, I want to go somewhere with you anywhere.

Get the hell out of here, Erica.

That was beautiful.

Oh, Juju.

Oh, my gosh.

We have a proposal.

Yes, Erica.

Yes.

We say yes.

We do.

Okay, that's a very big deal.

That was so beautiful.

I just can't believe that those two, two, I mean, obviously, based on that letter, like, how beautiful are those two human beings?

And I can't believe that they wanted to do that here.

I know.

I know.

So, we wrote to Erica and said, You sent us the most beautiful thing.

Do you really want to do this?

Are you sure?

I said, Yes, that's why I sent it.

So, we have been plotting with Erica for a while.

And

now

it is in Juju's hands.

Okay, hold on.

I just want to like talk about this for a second because Erica calls in and leaves a voicemail.

And she's like, hope they get it.

Yeah.

Hope they get the voicemail.

And then she hears from us and she's like, they got it.

So

Juju is going to be listening to our podcast.

Right now, she's right now.

Right now.

She just did.

As you're talking.

She just did.

Juju has just listened to us.

Oh, my gosh.

She's like, right now, we're like in inception right now.

She's listening to us right now as we talk.

I know.

Do you think she said yes?

I do.

Okay.

Here's what I just want to say about this is I feel like we are taking the kernel and reclaiming it because the reason why this is so moving to me is the whole story about feeling condemned in their communities and finding each other and feeling that love thing, which just transcends all the freaking rules and claiming it.

is like the original Valentine's Day, right?

It's like being told you can't get married, being told you can't, it'll make you weaker, being told all these things, and then being the renegade little saint who's like, we shall.

I mean, love wins.

I feel a little bit like that's what I'm saying around Valentine's Day.

It's like for so long in my life, I remember New Year's kisses.

I'd have to go in like bathrooms.

Oh, sweetie.

We love you, Juju and Erica.

I hope this goes well.

Not only, like, how do we get them back on this pod?

I need to talk to them.

They'll call us back.

Obviously, Eric and Juju, call us back and tell us everything.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

I'm dying to know.

And either way, love bugs, if you are a cynic or you are a celebrator,

or let's say this, I think all of us are celebrators of love.

I think what we're cynic love is not the love.

It's the commodification of the love.

So we can all be joined in the fact that we do believe in love.

You just want it to be real.

Yes, you just want it to be real.

And you

get to have the love you want on Valentine's Day.

You get to.

You don't have to wait for somebody else to do it.

You can imagine up what that

person

would do or bring or be to you.

And you can find one way to be that for yourself.

Yeah.

We love you, pod squad.

And mostly Erica and Juju.

That's right.

That's right.

On this day of Valentine's Day and also all the other days.

We'll see you soon.

We love you.

Bye.

Bye.

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.

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I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

I walked through fire, I came out the other side.

I chased desire,

I made sure

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and I continue

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that I'm the one for me.

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line

because we're adventurers and heartbreaks on the map.

A final destination,

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a hard pain.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes

things fall apart

and I continue to believe

the best

people are free

and it took some time

but I'm finally fine

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that

a final destination

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a hard thing

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on back

We might get lost, but we're okay with that.

We've stopped asking directions

in some places

they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives brings

We can do hard things

Yeah, we can do hard things

Yeah, we

can do hard

things