268. Elizabeth Gilbert On Her Most Important Daily Practice

Hey, everyone.

I've got to tell you about Viore if you haven't heard of them.

You're missing out.

And we love this stuff.

I've been living in this stuff for years.

I recently got the performance jogger from their Dream Knit collection.

And let me just say, it's hands down the softest, comfiest jogger I've ever worn.

I use them for everything.

Viori is an investment in your happiness.

I promise you.

For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase.

Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viori.com slash hardthings.

That's vuori.com slash hardthings.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S.

orders over $75 and free returns.

Go to viori.com slash hardthings and discover the versatility of Viori clothing.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the the website for full terms and conditions.

How would you like to feel calmer, think clearer, and sleep better, all in just two minutes?

Meet TrueVega Plus, a handheld device that uses gentle vagus nerve stimulation to help calm your body's stress response.

In just two minutes a session, Truvega helps shift you out of fight or flight and into a more relaxed, balanced state.

By naturally supporting your body's nervous system, you can quiet mental chatter, ease anxious feelings, and promote deeper, more restful sleep.

So you wake up feeling refreshed and clear-headed.

There are no pills, no side effects, just safe, clinically backed technology developed from decades of neuromodulation research.

Ready to try it out?

Visit truevega.com and use code WCDHT25 at checkout to receive $25 off your purchase.

Take action today and upgrade to feeling better every day with TrueVega.

Visit Truevega.com and use my code WCDHT25 to receive $25 off your purchase.

Feel calmer and sleep better with TrueVega.

Pod squad, there's something we need to ask you to do today that would mean so much to us.

And that is take 30 seconds to make sure you're following this show.

This weird thing happened with the Apple updates and it's kicked a lot of people out of the pod squad.

They've been paused.

And so we need you to make sure you're not paused.

I was.

I mean, I was paused out of my own podcast.

Oh, you are.

So to check to see if this happened to you, Apple listeners, listen up.

Open your podcast app, search We Can Do Hard Things and select the show page.

In the top right corner, you may see a pause symbol.

Tap the pause symbol to resume.

Please, if you see a download symbol, you can go to the settings and automatically download episodes.

And if you see a plus symbol, please tap to follow the show.

So if you do this, the new episodes just come up in your feed.

And this is really helpful to you because you never miss an episode.

It's also really helpful to us.

It actually matters to us when you listen to the pod.

It makes a big difference.

So thank you so much.

Go to We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts and tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

And you know what?

Tell your friends, maybe send them a link to your favorite episode or to the show.

We love you.

We appreciate you so much, Pod Squad.

We absolutely do.

Thank you, Pod Squad.

Unpause.

Unpause us.

Because we're adventurers and hard things

on map.

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things.

During this episode, we're talking to Our bestie.

Our bestie is back.

And her name is Elizabeth Gilbert.

Woo-woo-woo!

It's Lizzie Day!

Happy Lizzie Day to everyone!

Happy Lizzeration!

Yes, that's great, Sissy.

And

happy Lizzie Day to all who celebrate.

Elizabeth Gilbert is author of the international bestseller, Eat, Prey, Love, which has been translated into over 30 languages and sold over 12 million copies.

The book became so popular that Time magazine named Elizabeth Gilbert as one of the 100 most influential people in the world.

I feel like to me, she's one of, definitely one of the most five influential people in my world.

In 2010, Elizabeth published a follow-up to Eat Prey Love called Committed, as well as Big Magic, Creative Living Beyond Fear.

She is the author of three novels, Stern Men, The Signature of All Things, and City of Girls.

Elizabeth is the creator of the Onward Book Club, spotlighting, studying, and celebrating the work of black women authors.

You can also find her on Substack and subscribe to her newsletter, Letters from Love, which we'll be talking about today with Elizabeth Gilbert.

Returning after a year and a half, if you haven't listened to our original episodes, go back and listen to episodes 94 and 95

is

the

one and only

Elizabeth Gilbert.

Where are you?

What is happening?

I'm in the devil's waiting room is what it feels like here.

I'm in a, I'm in a, I'm renting an Airbnb in a building in San Jose, Costa Rica, and they have a party room that's completely lined with red carpet that I thought I would rent for me and us for this party we're about to have.

And I'm just going to show you what we're dealing with here.

Okay.

It's all for us, just this party room.

You guys, it's a red.

It's like a red velvet.

It's like you're in a womb.

You're in a womb room.

Or I'm in

an antechamber of my heart that also happens to have wall-to-wall carpeting, like my actual heart.

Yes.

We all miss you.

I miss you.

I love you.

Look at your fucking head.

Your beautiful head.

Okay.

I really wish you guys could just feel this.

It's like I have my own puppy.

It's like I have my own puppy.

So pod squad, what we're talking about right now is she just comes on.

Liz comes on.

We haven't seen her for a couple months.

You came and stayed at our house for a while and we got to experience the letters from love,

IRL.

But we haven't seen you since then.

And

now you're in a red velvet room

and your head is shaved and you look like a love monk right now is what you look like.

You look like a love monk.

Okay.

That's right.

Oh,

I I have never felt more like myself probably than in this exact moment.

It's like, of course,

of course, this is the haircut I should have always had.

I've been dreaming about doing this for years.

I actually

really

almost did it when Raya died.

It felt like I had to.

And I remember taking her clippers, because she was a hairdresser, and standing in front of the mirror.

And I was like, I don't even know how to do this, but I'm just going to do this because it feels like it must be done.

And then I I heard her voice as clear as day say, oh, babe, no, just go get a good short haircut, pay somebody some money.

Don't do that.

You're going to regret that.

Don't do that.

But I did it finally.

And I love it.

Oh, it's so beautiful.

Do you just pet yourself, Luke?

Do you pet yourself all the day?

Yes.

Yeah.

I shaved my head in college and that's what I just was like, always.

I can't keep my hands off it.

And it's- That's when you say you have your own puppy.

It's like you might be your own comfort source.

Exactly.

I'm my own teddy bear.

It's just incredible.

I love it.

I wish I had done it a long, long time ago.

And I'm traveling right now and just jumping in and out of oceans and jumping in and out of rivers and jumping in and out of swimming pools and taking a shower and rubbing a bar of soap on my head and jumping out two seconds later, done, perfect, ready for everything.

It's so good.

When you texted me the little video of you doing it, you kept saying, I did it myself.

I did it myself.

I did this myself.

Can you talk about the epiphany of that?

Yes, because

my hair has been a problem.

Many of many people listening to this

probably have a similar experience that their hair was identified at a very early age by some parental or authoritative figure as problematic.

And then enormous resources have been poured into de-problemizing this hair.

And a lot of suffering and a lot of pain and a lot of longing and a lot of like, what do I have to do to make it look

completely different from what it actually is?

And the hair that you have all seen me with over the years is not what my hair looks like.

My hair is dark and frizzy and curly.

It is not shiny and blonde and platinum and straight.

And it costs me a fortune to make it look like what it isn't.

And it costs me an enormous amount of time.

And I love the people who I go see to do all this stuff.

But

the idea that I could

not have to have someone tend to my hair as if I was like 18th-century nobility and you have to have like servants who put your clothes on for you because you can't, who dress your hair because you can't, right?

Like,

I don't need to have

like staff anymore to tend to my fucking head.

It's so big from a world perspective.

You're like, I'm ready.

I'm already ready.

It's like cosmic when you think about like, no, in this moment, I'm ready.

Let's go.

I woke up like this.

I literally woke up like this.

It's incredible.

And then I was in a meeting recently and I looked around the room and this is in New York City in like the West Village.

So one of the most liberal enclaves on earth.

And there are 40 people in the room and all the men had short hair and every single one of the women had expensive looking longer hair.

And I was calculating the amount of money and I was like, why are we still doing this?

I don't understand why this is still that in everything that we've put aside and rejected it.

Why am I still,

why am I still buying into this story?

That if you're a woman, your hair has to be long.

If a man, your hair has to be short.

It's so stupid.

It doesn't even make sense.

It's so arbitrary.

And I was like, these dudes just got to get out of the shower, get dressed and come here.

And

I feel like that's male privilege that I'm now claiming for myself.

Yes, yes.

Amen.

Do you feel scared at all?

Like, does it feel scary?

Because I always think.

Do you feel scared?

No, I feel I feel unscared when I have a bunch of shit hair, like hair over my face.

Like it feels like a shield of some sort or like a blankie, like a security blankie, or it just feels so brave to just be like, hello, this is my face with no frame.

My whole entire face.

Yeah, it's

that.

I've heard a lot of women say that since they saw this, that they're like, it's so brave you're letting yourself be seen.

And I think, oh, right, there's not this thicket that I can hide behind and peek out from.

But I never really had a thicket, which was part of the problem.

I really wanted a thicket, but I never really had one.

A thinnet.

I had a thicket.

I had more like a few strands of like Q-tips that I was trying to hide behind.

But like,

yeah, I don't have the, I don't want to be seen wound.

I have a lot of wounds, but I don't have that one.

Abby, I think you and I have this in common.

I'm not at all afraid to be seen.

So that's not frightening for me.

But what was frightening for me was this crazy idea I had for years where I was like, I really want to do this, but I'm a public figure who's seen as a certain way, who gets paid to go speak at corporate events and who, you know, has this like image that people are accustomed to.

So I really must look like my author photos.

And just a few weeks ago, I was like, that is so stupid.

If I can't do this, who can do this?

You know, I'm self-employed.

I'm an artist.

Somebody has to do this.

And then I read this article in the New York Times about all these young Chinese women who are shaving their heads.

Did you read about this?

It's like this mass movement that's happening in China right now of all these young women in their 20s, including some people who were beauty influencers on Chinese social media who are like, we're done with all of your standards of what we're supposed to look like.

And they're all buzz cutting their hair.

And of course they look amazing.

So I think I was afraid I was going to look like a withered old man, but I don't think I look like that.

I think it looks really beautiful.

And I like it better than I think I've ever looked and I feel

more like myself than I think I've ever felt.

I just have some follow-up questions.

Do you have any like cow licks or weird things that happen

that you weren't really totally aware of?

Yes, I do.

And so I've had to learn how to shave it in circles because it grows in circles.

But basically, it's pretty straightforward.

And it takes five minutes.

I do it like every five or six days.

And it feels like so cleansing to do it.

And you know, religious renunciants have always done this.

Partially, it's just because like you don't want to be dealing with this.

Like your whole life is about something else.

You know, your whole life is about your devotion to something else.

And, and that feels accurate too, to me.

Have you been more misgendered since shaving your head?

I haven't walked around the United States with it yet, but I've been walking around Central America with it, which is in many ways more conservative.

And

I haven't, and I'm with a friend of mine who keeps, we keep, she's like, I don't see you getting any fewer or more looks than ever.

And I don't feel that either, which makes me think maybe it just looks right to other people too.

Like, maybe it's not just me who feels like this is what I'm supposed to look like.

Maybe it's people who've never seen me who are like, yeah, that's what that person looks like.

That's so cool.

It's so cool.

So cool.

Like I asked you on text, though, the problem is like, what will you do with all of the hours that you're not just thinking about your hair being annoying or when you're going to get the hairdresser?

And also, what will you do with all your money and like your drawers with all the magic potions?

It'll just be hard.

And I'm always going to have stuff.

You don't need all the shit anymore.

I don't have to travel with anything, Amanda, except the clippers.

I would be embarrassed for the world to know how much of hours I think about my hair.

When they had that thing that that was like what's your roman empire

that's it's my head

it's my hair

my own hair the exterior of my head yeah the exterior no and it's not hair in general it's not like as a study it's not your hair it's just my own hair

all day every day

well you have magnificent hair oh well thank you thank you but and i'm sure you just woke up with it it did just never and over time

over time it's only cost me $17 million.

Can you imagine the amount of money and time?

No.

But I also really love the people who have done my hair over the years.

And I'm delighted that they have a living.

And Raya was a hairdresser.

She moved along that way.

So it's not like I want to take away the livings of people who do this, but I think this might be it.

You know, like this is, this feels really good.

Is there a connection?

Between, because you said,

I mean, really, when you came to stay with us, when was it?

What month it was okay it was

a month and a half ago time before now but relatively recently every time we spend time together you're teaching me something just by what you're doing you're not like trying to teach me because then I wouldn't listen but

you're just being yourself

and I feel like for me

You're, you know, you're one of my dearest friends in the world and someone that every time you're doing something, I'm like, huh,

that feels like something I'll probably be doing in five years.

So I'm going to really enjoy my hair now.

You would look awesome with a shaved head.

You would look awesome and you would feel like a god.

So

what started this

practice?

I'm going to call it a spiritual practice and then you tell us what you call it where you began

waking up in the morning and saying to

god

your deepest self

saying

love what would you have me know today

you call them two-way prayers because i remember when you were trying to get me to understand

that i could have a higher power early in 12 steps and i would just say liz i can't do this i cannot surrender to this higher power that is this he.

And you would say, you can create a higher power of your own understanding.

And you can surrender to that.

Is that the being you're talking to when you say, love?

What would you have me know today?

And can you just take the pod squad through this spiritual practice that really is changing people's lives?

Nothing would bring me more joy.

And I am so happy to be here.

And I don't even think I said hello to you guys because I just jumped into talking about shaved heads and carpeted ceilings.

But hi, I love you all.

Hi, Amanda.

Hi, Abby.

Hi, Glenn.

Hi, Lou.

It's so good to see you.

And thank you for letting me talk about the thing that is my most favorite thing to talk about and to think about and to be with.

So I'll start at the beginning, which my first encounter with this force.

When I was going through my first divorce and my collapse from an absolutely love-addicted infatuation with the guy I left my marriage for,

where we flew very close to the sun and then crashed and almost died because it was that kind of love story.

And I was just wrecked and shamed and

full of despair

and so much shame.

It was mostly shame, just so much shame and so lost.

And I wrote about this in Eat Pray Love.

So this was like 25 years ago.

And I woke up in the middle of the night.

When I look back on it now, I just think, man, I didn't have any

tools for what I was going through.

I was just going through it like raw, but it was the going through it.

rawly that started to collect me my tools, you know.

But

I don't know.

I can't remember the moment of inspiration that caused me to

take a notebook in the middle of the night and to just write a letter to myself

saying the things that I have always wanted to hear somebody say to me.

They were really simple.

And essentially what love said to me was,

I'm right here.

There was this presence that said to me, I am right here.

I have always been right here.

There is nothing that you can do to lose me.

There is nothing you can fail at so much that it will cost you my love.

You can't earn my love.

You can't lose my love.

It is innate.

It's yours.

I am never going to leave you.

I was here at the moment of your birth.

I'll be here at the moment of your death.

Whatever you need to do, I'll be with you.

Because I remember that night I was struggling with whether I needed to go back on antidepressants.

And this voice was like, if you need to go back on antidepressants, I will be there with you loving you through that.

If you don't need to, I will be there loving you through that.

There's nothing you need to change about yourself

to be more or less loved than you are.

And I've got you and I'll stay up with you all night.

If you need to stay up all night crying, I'll be with you.

I'm right here with you.

If you fall asleep, I'll be here when you wake up.

And nobody had ever said anything like that to me.

Although I'd been trying to train and trick people into saying this like that to me

with medium levels of, and if they did say it to me, you know, it didn't end up working anyway because it wasn't supposed to be coming from them.

Oh, you know,

it wasn't supposed to be coming from them.

No matter how many games I played to like extract that from them.

So that I started doing it as a practice, and I didn't even know really what to call that thing.

that was speaking to me.

I didn't really feel very comfortable with the term God.

Unlike you guys, I was not raised in a high-demand religion, so I hadn't had something forced on me about spirituality that was so aggressive and domineering that it made me want to recoil from it, but I hadn't really had anything, you know, so I was, in a way, that's kind of easier because I was sort of building, you know, building my own ideas.

But over the years, I just, I just kept reaching out to it.

And then I just started calling it love.

And it's what it is.

It's this unconditional loving voice.

And I have a tattoo on my chest that says, I'm right here, because that is the thing it says most, more than anything.

There are a few things that it constantly says.

One is, I'm right here.

The other is, you can't lose me.

The other is, you haven't done anything wrong, because I'm such a guilt addict and I'm such a shame addict.

So it's constantly telling me, like, you really haven't done anything wrong.

And you don't need to do anything.

And it's okay if it's okay if you can't do anything, which is very different from what I was raised as.

It's like, you must must constantly be perfect and you must never make a mistake.

And mistakes are totally unforgivable.

And any lapse is an emergency and a catastrophe.

So, you know, like fix it, shape it up, zip it up, you know, like, and love's like, I don't need your zipped up self.

I don't need you.

I don't need anything from you.

It's another thing it often says, I don't need anything from you.

And I remember when I was first beginning this relationship with this, with this thing,

I would sometimes say to it, I don't believe in you.

And it would say, I have no problem with that.

I have no requirement for you to believe in me.

And I would say, but you're not even real.

And then it would say, well, then who are you talking to?

I have medicine.

Who are you talking to right now?

Who are you up in the middle of the night having a conversation with?

Like, I don't know.

You're not even real.

So I didn't do it daily.

I used to use it.

It was real foxhole stuff.

It was like when I was in real crisis, I would reach for it.

And it got me through Rhea's death and Rhea's relapse into drug addiction.

It got me through two divorces.

It got me through multiple shame episodes, multiple breakups and failures and my own addiction.

It's really been true to its word that it's never not going to be there.

And it's never not, it's never not been wise.

There's never been anything.

that it has ever told me that wasn't wise.

Like if I go back and open up journals from 10, 20 years ago, it's right on point, you know?

And lots of times I'll go to, I would go to it when I was frantic about something that was happening and I really wanted to know how that thing was going to end and what was going to happen.

And this is where love is sort of a wise ass to me, which I enjoy because, of course, it would have to be if it was mine.

And so I would say things like, I need to know how this is going to end.

I need to know when this divorce is going to be over.

I need to know what's going to happen.

And love would say to me,

that's not my department.

department

like i don't have actually any information about the future i don't it's not my department and i would say well then what are you and it would say i am love

and i am here what i can assure you is that i'm here to love you through whatever happens um so that's all i've got for you and i would say that's not good enough and it would say i understand why you would feel like that wasn't good enough

And yet I am here.

And I remember saying to it one time, well, what is your role then?

If you can't fix anything, you can't change anything, you can't predict anything, you can't undo horrible things that are happening.

And it says, my role is to be present and comfort with you in your darkest hours.

And that is what I'm here for.

And that is what I will always be here for.

So when I entered 12-step recovery, I discovered that there's this thing that people in 12-step recovery have been doing forever that's called two-way prayer.

That Bill W., who was the original founder of AA, said that it was the single most important practice that a recovering addict could have, that it was more important than having a sponsor.

It was more important than doing the steps.

It was more important than going to meetings.

And it didn't make it into the big book.

What the hell?

Because as much as people have an issue with the big book as being too religious, they were actually trying to make it less religious because they didn't want to scare away agnostics and atheists.

So this is a mystical practice.

So they didn't want to put this mystical practice in here that says, like, you can actually directly speak to your higher power and it will speak back to you.

They're like, people aren't going to be able to handle this.

So they just left that out.

But Bill W did it every single day of his life.

And the original 100 who never relapsed of the first 100 AAs did it.

It was like their foremost practice was this two-way direct communion.

And Bill W said, it's so important to do this because it's more important than reading spiritual texts, because any spiritual text that you read is somebody else's downloaded divine experience, not yours.

Yes, somebody else's two-way prayer.

It's somebody else's two-way prayer that then became the Psalms or then became this divine revelation, but you get to have your own.

And in fact, you have to have your own.

And as I said to you, Glennon, when you were struggling with doing this, nobody, I always say this to my sponsees in 12-step, nobody,

nobody

will or should surrender to a God who is forced upon them.

Because that is coercion and that is not spiritual surrender.

But I run my life now on these letters.

Like I, I can't, that is no exaggeration.

Every single morning when I wake up, I say to this force, which I sometimes call God and sometimes call love and sometimes call source,

what do you want me to know today?

What would you have me know today?

And for the first 20 years, all it told me again and again was, I love you so much.

Because I needed 20 years of time.

I was so wounded from lack of love.

And it didn't matter how many people loved me.

Millions of people could love me.

It wasn't digesting.

I had like, I didn't have the enzymes to be able to receive love.

So this thing had to just be like, you're perfect.

You're my child.

I love you.

You don't have to do anything.

I'm right here.

But now as I've gotten more and more well, through my recovery, now I find that it gives me instruction because it can, because I'm willing and open to that.

And also I believe that I'm loved.

So it's convinced me that I'm loved.

So that was the main job that it had was to convince me that I'm loved.

And then once it convinced me of that, it's like, okay, here's your, like today, it was like, bring the very best of what you have to this podcast today and just share your own story and don't try to convince anybody or impress anybody.

Just tell the truth about what's happened to you and I'll be with you.

You know, so it's, and then it'll say like, call this person, check in, I want you to do this today.

This is the work I want you to be doing.

Here's the person I don't want you to be calling today.

So it's now giving me direction.

And my rule is, I don't do anything if it tells me not to do it.

Because we don't want me out there in the world operating the way I operated for the first 50 years of my life, that the highest intelligence in the universe is mine.

Like that's, we don't want that.

Like that doesn't even make any sense.

So I'm like, I'll give it over to you to this like presence and it tells me what to do.

And that's what I do.

So that's how it all started.

And then

I started this thing on Substack recently that's called Letters from Love, which is this community

where I'm sharing my letters from love and teaching people how to do this.

And they're sharing their letters from love.

We've had it for about two months, but we've got 50,000 people now doing this.

And their letters are so beautiful.

And Abby did one the other day that was,

oh, God.

It was just, I do this with my best friend, Margaret Cordy, who you guys know and love.

And she and I administrate this together.

And we were like, we know we're not supposed to have favorites, but Abby's letters is our favorite.

And the irony is that

you were so nervous about doing it because you're like, I'm not a writer.

But this practice has nothing to do with being a writer.

It's not about writing.

It's about hearing.

It's about listening.

And you're a really good listener, Abby.

You know, it's about hearing something that's trying to speak to you and then writing down what it's saying.

It's not a creative writing exercise.

It's a mystical download where you are tuning into a channel and it's actually coming through you as revealed wisdom.

Yeah.

And that's got nothing to do with being a writer.

I was so nervous.

So our dogs, Honey and Hattie, are sweet, spoiled, and insanely picky when it comes to food.

We've tried all kinds of brands over the years.

Some would get a sniff and then completely ignored.

Others, maybe once and never again, but Ollie, it's a total game changer.

Ollie delivers clean, fresh meals made with human-grade ingredients.

No fillers, no preservatives, just real food.

And the flavors?

Things like fresh beef with sweet potatoes or fresh turkey with blueberries.

I've caught myself thinking, this dog eats better than I do.

Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food.

Head to ollie.com slash hardthings.

Tell them all about your dog and use code hardthings to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today.

Plus, they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box.

So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

That's ollie.com slash hardthings and enter code hardthings to get 60%

off your first box.

On this show, we talk a lot about resilience and what it really means to support one another.

For healthcare and wellness professionals, that's the job, day in and day out.

Nurses, doctors, therapists, the healthcare workers all across the nation, they're the ones who show up for us.

So it's just as important that they feel supported too.

That's why we partnered with FIGS.

For too long, scrubs were an afterthought and not anymore.

Figs scrubs are thoughtfully designed and innovative fabrics made to meet the demands of the job and look good doing it.

There's a full range of styles and go-to colors, plus limited edition drops that bring a little joy into every day.

So, if you work in healthcare or wellness or love someone who does, these are the scrubs.

Use code FIGSRX for 15% off your first order at wearfigs.com.

That's 15% off at wherefigs.com with code FIGSRX.

Is it the texture of the voice?

Like when you're listening to yourself

and when you're channeling, how do you distinguish between

this is the voice and the wisdom of Liz Gilbert that I don't want to rule my life?

This is my, the thing that ruled me for the first decades of my life.

This is the wisdom that I am channeling from my higher wisdom, from love, from how do you actually

tell the difference?

You can't.

And that's part of the humility is that the only really honest and humble answer is I don't know.

And I don't know, and I have no way of knowing whether what I am hearing when I ask love, what would you have me know, whether that is in fact

a divine spirit.

whether that is the innate, whether that is what the Buddhists call original mind, which is our shared mind before thought, you know, before the contamination of thought.

There's this original mind that we all share, which is sometimes what it feels like when I read the letters that people post because they sound so much like mine.

It's like, wow, we're all listening to the same radio station when we ask this question.

Or is this just the part of me and my consciousness that is the kindest,

the wisest, the most gentle, and the most forgiving aspect of me?

Or is there even a difference between the kindest, wisest, most forgiving forgiving aspect of me and God's voice?

What would God's voice be, but the kindest and highest and most forgiving aspect of me?

Coming back to what I was telling you, Glennon, about what I learned in India at the ashram, that was so moving to me when they used to say, God dwells within you as you.

God dwells within you as you.

So it's going to sound like my voice, but it's going to sound like the highest, kindest, wisest, most temperate, most universally compassionate version of me.

And if that's all it is, I'll take that.

Yeah, exactly.

I'd much rather be listening to that radio station in my head than the one that tells me that I am a worthless piece of shit, which is also playing 24 hours.

And, you know, so I'm replacing trust in one kind of voice with trust in another kind of voice.

And when people say sometimes as they're learning this practice, well, this just doesn't seem like it could be true that like this voice is speaking to me.

I'm like, you never fucking question the voice in your head that tells you that you are a failure.

You never hear that voice that says, you're a failure, you're a loser, you fucked up.

You never hear that and go, that doesn't sound like it could be true.

You never have any skepticism about that.

Like, how about a little skepticism about that voice?

Yes.

And a little less skepticism about this loving, why is it so impossible to imagine that you might be loved and that there might be something

that wants communion with you.

You know, there's something, there's an intelligence, a loving intelligence that wants communion with you and is right there waiting.

I mean, I often, love often, says to me, or God says to me in these writings, it was so funny watching you travel all over the world looking for me.

It was so funny watching you go to India for four months and get up at four o'clock in the morning and chant.

And it's like, look, that's all great.

That's all part of it.

But God was like, literally, all you had to do was ask me

what I want you to know, and I would have told you.

Like, I am not a remote presence.

I am not something that has to be searched to the ends of the world.

I could not be more here.

All you had to do is ask.

There is an element of it that is reparenting.

It's like spiritual reparenting.

Like if you had a circle and you got like this little part of it with your parents and you imagine all the rest that you needed, like in a pie graph then this it's like you always have at your fingertips or in your heart or all of it that you ever needed but this is a way of spiritual reparenting too and is it the opposite of love addiction for you because is it like love addiction is searching for this in other people and other things and this is a returning and finding it within it would that be the antidote yes

among other things you know including a recovery community and certain practices of recovery in the steps.

But yes, if I have an infinite love hunger that's bottomless, and I know that it is because I've had it my whole life.

And it doesn't matter what anybody throws in there.

It's just a black hole.

It just goes right, you know, it doesn't stick.

If I've got that, the only remedy, possible remedy for infinite love hunger would have to be infinite love.

And that's what I always thought, which is why I was out there looking for it and all these other people.

But, you know, it's like Tolstoy had that beautiful metaphor, a spiritual metaphor of the beggar

sitting on a pot of gold

their whole life with their hand outstretched, begging for just scraps when they were literally sitting on a pot of gold the entire time because everything that was needed was within you.

And that's in all spiritual traditions.

I mean, in the Gnostic Gospels, it says, anything you do not bring forth that is within you will destroy you, and anything that you bring forth that is within you will save you.

And in the Upanishads, it says,

Where are we to find light when the sun has been extinguished?

From within?

It's all pointing to the same thing, which is

the last place you're going to look.

That's the beautiful, that's the beautiful humor of it.

It's like, I looked for God everywhere else, and I looked for love everywhere else.

The last place I checked was that it might be within me.

It's the Christian,

the kingdom of God is not outside, it's within.

That's

repeated.

I think it's interesting that they didn't put it in the 12th step, in the big book.

I feel like maybe it's because they didn't want it to be too religious and maybe it's because they wanted it to be more religious.

Like maybe it's because they didn't want the power.

It feels like when like the Gospel of Thomas or it feels like every time there's any section of any spiritual book that says actually it's within you it gets cut out yeah because then you wouldn't

require the

book

yeah you could be right about that it's true well you can't really build a movement around that that's what elaine pagels wrote about in in the gnostic gospels was the reason that the the gnostics didn't take over was because they were just saying like you don't need a church and you don't need priests and you don't need these documents and you don't need these rituals.

But I think the other reason she wrote very wisely was that it didn't take on, that it didn't really take over as a religion was that because

most people, for some reason, would still rather

go to an authority or to a structure and be told what to do.

Because the self-responsibility that comes with this is all within you.

is sometimes a little overwhelming.

And they'd like, okay, I'd rather just go to confession every Sunday and be told to say these things and go home and like live my life.

I don't really want to take responsibility for my own spirituality.

I'd rather go to the hairdresser.

I'd rather go to the hairdresser.

I'd rather go to the hairdresser.

I don't want to take responsibility for this head.

Especially when you think about the people.

I mean, this was born out of your desperation, frankly.

I mean, beautiful healing work is often born out of sheer desperation of I have nothing left.

So I might try this horse thing because why not?

If you think about AA, a bunch of addicts who are coming to a place,

they themselves would think, and folks looking at them would think, you're the last damn people who were going to say, look at yourself and you know, I mean, when you're at that depths, it's like so counterintuitive to think, no, just go a little deeper in there, in that thing.

That is the very thing that is causing you so much pain that you can't get anything right.

Like, keep going.

It's there.

It's just, it's very countercultural.

We think when we get to that place, we have demonstrated our untrustworthiness to the world.

So why the hell would we say, I'm the most trustworthy person to me?

Why do you think Jesus liked hanging out with prostitutes and alcoholics and drug addicts and the outcasts, right?

They were closer to it.

They were closer to it.

They had more ego collapse.

Like Carl Jung and Bill W.

wrote these beautiful letters about addiction, and they said, like, for the addict to recover, they have to go through ego collapse at depth.

All the external systems that you've been relying on to prop yourself up have to go, they have to collapse.

And that's the only way that opening can happen.

And it's in the, it's in Dante's Inferno, too.

Like, what's at the bottom of the center of the frozen lake of hell inside of Satan's belly?

You come through that into paradise.

Like, that's the journey.

You You know, it's the hero's journey.

It's like this is the oldest story in the entire world.

You've got to go through this dark night of the soul.

Don't,

don't quit before the miracle.

Keep going.

You know, keep going.

But boy, when you're in it, you're like, this can't be right.

Yeah.

This can't be right.

Correct.

This cannot be.

This can't be right.

That's exactly how it feels.

This can't be right.

Does anyone else have any idea?

Exactly.

anybody honestly anybody

maybe doesn't feel like the this sure feels like i've lost the way you really what

you're telling me this is the this is the way

you know like it's so hard to believe

and yet you hear that story again and again and again on the floor, face down, pile of snot, everything gone, nobody left who will pick up your calls bankrupt divorced shamed arrested you know all of it it's like ego collapse ego collapse ego collapse now you're getting closer stephen mitchell says this first first they pull the rug out from under you

and then they pull the floor out from underneath the rug and then they pull the ground out from underneath the floor and now you're getting there

like now you're getting there

but no one wants to do that no one signs up to do that on purpose that's why so much of this happens in crisis.

It's like, no, I'm doing everything I can to not have the rug, the ground, the carpet, the parking garage pulled over.

You know, like, I don't want to let go.

I think Abby's going to read her letter, right?

Yeah, I'm starting to sweat.

Yeah, and I want to hear about what that experience was like for you.

We will.

You will.

Do you have any letter that you can think of that really like,

I know all of them do for you, but one that really woke you up and made you change something that

was big for you

that you can think about recently.

I don't want to get into the details because it involves other people, but

being told to walk away

from

relationships that were very unhealthy, but that I felt I was obliged to.

And there was about a year there where I was getting that message every single day, which was,

I don't want you in that.

And all of my cultural training and all of my upbringing was like, but you can't get away from that.

You know, we're related to these people.

Like, this is the central bond.

There's no way out.

You have to martyr yourself and suffer to be in, you know, you have to, you just have to.

And love was like, actually, you really super don't have to.

And in fact,

you're getting in the way.

It's not just that I want you out of that for your well-being.

I want you out of that for the greater good.

And I know it doesn't look like that right now, but that's what I need you to do.

And that was probably the biggest act of faith

since I've started this practice because I just kept saying, that can't be right.

That can't be right.

But I've made this decision to just do it, you know, because what's my other option to just do the way I've always done things, which has led me to the brink of suicide so many times?

You know, that maybe can't be right.

So there's a radicalness that happens.

And I think that's why that

entity, that voice, had to

spend those decades just pouring love into me before they started giving me direction.

You know, it's like, I need to really shore you up and let you know that you are loved no matter what you do.

And now I'm going to tell you to do some stuff that might be very hard for you.

And it's certainly been like that with substances when I came into program was that it just kept saying, we're doing this now, honey.

We're doing this now.

You used to have to do that thing.

And I'm going to ask you to just put that down and come with me.

Because we're not doing that anymore.

And that was hard.

But that made more sense than

some like, yeah.

So when Liz came to our house and we were just all hanging out for a few days, it was amazing.

She would just start this.

Liz is the best house guest ever in the whole world because Liz wants to do everything that we want to do.

Yeah.

Which is nothing.

Exactly.

That's the secret, folks.

That's exactly right.

We saunaed and we cold plunged and we breathed and we meditated and we talked and we ate.

And that's what we did.

For like

three or four days on the couch, we pretty much just didn't move from the couch.

Yes.

And I think at some point you were like, do you want to see like the sights?

And I was like, no.

Why would I want to see anything but this?

That's what you said.

Why would I want to see things?

God, I love you so much.

That was great.

Because Liz Gilbert, she doesn't get out much.

So it's important to show her the sights.

Yeah.

What does the future hold for business?

Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.

Bull market, bear market.

Rates will rise or fall.

Inflation, up or down.

Can someone please invent a crystal ball?

Until then, Over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite, the number one AI cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform.

With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth, giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

With real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next.

Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

I highly recommend it.

Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash hard things.

The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things.

Netsuite.com slash hard things.

It's the beginning of a new school year and also classroom sniffles and sneezes that go along with it.

From home to school and back, stock up with Kleenex ultra-soft tissues.

Start the school year off the right way by preparing for the messes that come with it.

You don't want to be caught without a tissue on hand to help.

Kleenex ultra soft tissues are soft and absorbent to stand up against runny noses, to keep you and your family clean and comforted as the school year starts.

This back to school season, make sure to get the classroom essential that teachers and students can rely on.

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

Whether you are working remotely or in office, many of us require collaborating with team members on projects, tasks, and outcomes.

Monday.com is one of our sponsors and a platform that our team at Treat Media has actually used to coordinate our workflow.

It is a platform that helps you from planning to execution, thinks ahead to deadlines, assign owners and actions, and allows you to see progress as a team.

It actually helps us get some work done.

There is a lot of AI out there, but not a lot actually moves the needle.

Monday.com's Sidekick is different.

It can actually build workflows, spot risks, update the team.

You just say what you need, and you can consider it done.

Sidekick in Monday.com saves so much time.

Using our Sidekick integration, help to update deadlines, brief teammates, reassign tasks, and it even helps us spot risks before they actually become problems.

Stop managing the busy work.

Let Monday Sidekick handle it so you can focus on the real work.

Try Monday Sidekick, AI you'll love to use on monday.com.

So I will

admit that when you first suggested that we write our own letters from love after you explained what you were doing, Abby was the brave one that said,

yes, please.

I said, no, thank you.

Tish said, no, thank you.

Tish kept saying, but like, who's writing back?

Like, I don't get it like i'm so i write and then what happens like who's gonna write back and liz was like love and tish was like i'm gonna go back to tick tock so

abby said

yes and then would you

yeah well the pod squad knows that i've been on my own personal therapy journey and um

an episode that's been previously dropped, I talk a lot about my desire and need to develop more self-love.

And I think that

because of this therapy, and then Liz shows up at our house and she's like, I've started this new project and I'm doing this Substack thing and it's Letters from Love.

It was like, you know, when the world like shows up in certain ways, you're like, oh yeah, that's right.

This is what we're doing now.

So when Liz was telling us about it and then asked me to do it, I said, yes.

And then I was like, oh, fuck, but I'm not a great writer like Liz and Glennon.

And so I had an immense amount of insecurity because it feels like a writing in the diary and like

publishing that.

Like it's like a diary journal writing, you know, entry.

And so I sat down.

And it took me 10 minutes.

Wow.

This thing came out of me in 10 minutes.

And it was, it was like,

and I will say this, like I was like, okay, so am I writing to myself or

I had to like, I had to figure it out.

It feels a little confusing, but really it's what love would say to you.

And so I sat down and it just poured out.

And this was a like, honestly, I don't think I fixed much about it in a, in the second read through.

And then I sent it to you and Margaret.

Yeah, you both.

beautiful.

You both were really affirming, which I knew.

And we went bananas.

And I think one of the things that I'm

no longer surprised about is how when we open ourselves up to certain things, they just literally show up in our lives.

So Glennon was like, hell no.

And I was like, oh, hell yes.

That tracks.

Very tracks.

What would mom say to you, Glennon?

Oh, we'll be giving to you, Amanda.

Don't you sit there.

Don't you sit there too smugly.

You'll have your turn, my dear.

We'll see how you feel about this.

Yes.

Because you are, you're, you're coming up too.

All right.

Okay.

I'm just holding.

I'm going to read the letter and then we can talk about it.

You guys can.

Yay.

Okay.

Also, I really don't like reading publicly, but here I go.

Okay.

Dear love, what would you have me know today?

Dear love,

oh, sweet little girl.

Yes, I said, little girl.

You spent much of your life trying to figure yourself out, trying to understand yourself and how you fit into the world.

Your questions about why you're here and what this is all about are good.

These questions keep you alive and awake.

Sometimes, though, honey, they can take you out and make life unmanageable.

Know that I see you.

Know that you are good.

Also, know that good and bad is bullshit.

Know that your goodness isn't something I need to see you.

Know that I love looking at you and watching you and seeing you explore, because isn't that what you love to do the most?

Isn't seeing things and doing things and experiencing things the stuff that makes you feel the most?

And isn't feeling the best?

And let me get back to the questions, honey.

The questions will keep coming and coming and coming.

coming.

Don't be so concerned with finding the answers.

That's where you can get stuck.

Life isn't about the answers.

It's about living out the questions.

You have worked really, really hard trying to understand yourself and the world.

And sometimes it's exhausting.

And you also have this little worry deep down that the kind of work you've done and become quote expert at excludes you from other work or asking other questions of yourself and the world.

You did go down a long, arduous road.

It was very focused.

You did that for certain reasons that you're still uncovering and reaping the benefits and also recovering from.

But that does not limit you to just that one thing.

Sweetie, you have always known you were more than just soccer.

And now that you are truly stepping into the pureness of love and self-expression, you will keep discovering that.

You are discovering that nothing is by chance and everything that happened to you was on purpose.

The addictions, the heartache, all of it was necessary.

But even during all that tumult, I was there.

I was with you.

And I know you heard me.

My feelings aren't hurt that you needed to ignore me for so long.

And I can understand how hard it is to believe that I was there then as I am now.

Can you trust that I exist and that I've been there with you from the beginning?

I've been here before this body came and I'll be here after this body leaves.

You have spent so much of your life believing that the world or someone else would make you believe in me.

And some moments that's been true, but not because someone else made it real.

Someone else made you see that I exist inside of you.

See that I've been here with you all along.

And when that someone left you, you doubted my existence.

But I've been here.

I will always be here.

I think it's easier to not believe I exist inside of each and every one of us.

It's easier in some ways to agree that there is no magic because what if magic doesn't touch us?

What if we are the ones love isn't allowed to have?

It's just not true.

I'm here for you all.

So here you are, awake to the possibility of believing I exist.

Do you think you could try easier to prove your worthiness?

Your mother's love isn't necessary if you believe I exist and I'm here.

And when you do,

You will see your mother loves you.

You will see that you are so worthy and so endlessly loved.

What would it take?

What would you lose if you chose to believe I exist and I am here with you always?

Why does it feel like such a risk?

I will never abandon you.

You have never been abandoned.

I will never leave you.

You have never been left.

But I understand why it's so hard.

You've taken so many wonderful risks in your life.

Heck, it's why you have had a beautiful life.

Those risks you thought would prove you were strong enough to do life alone.

I would say that living the questions and those risks are proof that I exist.

You were doing them in the name of independence, but deep down, I think you were trying to get at a deeper question of your life.

I think you believe I exist.

You know I do.

Why not?

just accept it once and for all.

I won't leave you.

I won't abandon you.

And if you choose to jump, I will catch you.

Those cracks on your heart that you think aren't unfixable, well, sweetie, they healed a long, long time ago.

It's just a story about them that you can't get over.

And maybe this leap of faith into my arms could be the thing that helps you change that story.

Just an idea.

Anywho.

I love you and you are love, baby girl.

But it's not about me.

about you and what you want to do.

And if you want to believe, as I always have, that love doesn't just live outside of you, it's everywhere.

I am in everything.

I am in everyone.

I understand how hard life can be.

We can do hard things, right?

The end.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my

God.

Wow.

The thing that I feel most surprised about that

for me is

how it's been like this weird door that's opened for me

that

though it's not open all the day as long, because like

I'm not there yet.

I just think that this was like one of the most life-changing things that has ever happened to me.

And

when you were here sitting on our couch talking about this and reading the sub-stacks to us, and there was just this part of me that was like a full-body yes.

And I don't talk about myself in my head.

Like I don't listen to like the mean,

cynical voice as much as I used to.

And

this just is like,

it really is that there's is a new door that I can open and I have access to that is not locked.

I feel like, I feel like that my, the, the whole of my life has been this hallway and all of these doors, I've just like broken through, but I've just kept walking past the love door.

I've just kept walking past it.

I've knocked on it a few times.

I've like jiggled the doorknob that, nope, it's locked.

And like for whatever reason, this like opened this door up, at least it, at least it left it ajar

for me.

Like when I walk by it, i can walk through or i can peek my head in and that's kind of where i'm at in the process because i also still sometimes i'm like where is this

love thing where are you you know and it just said i'm here

did you just hear it yeah i was gonna say ask it yeah you can ask it anything yeah it just said i'm right here baby um i'm here so i'm just so grateful that

I chose to do this.

I didn't know.

It's just ironic that it's all happening at the same time that I'm actually trying to do this work.

Yeah, you're right on time

for the appointment.

And I think what was why Margaret and I both really wanted you to do it was because,

and I wrote about this a little bit when we posted it on social media, like

people think of you, people see you

as

so formidable you know i wrote on social media about going to see you speak when wolfpack came out and i went with a male friend of mine and he'd never heard you speak before and you came out on stage you said like 10 words and he said i would follow that woman into battle i would follow that woman over a cliff like you have this quality um that makes other people feel like oh well there's the leader that we're looking for that's the one we've been waiting for she let's follow her over the

let's go she's she's this confidence right You're literally the Olympic champion captain, you know, it's like, and I've seen you, and I've seen you.

I've been lucky enough to see this intimately when I'm around you and Glennon and the kids, the leadership that you show, the way that you make people safe around you.

And I also, when you and I were talking about doing the letter and you were talking about your insecurity about being a writer, and I reminded you of the letter that you wrote.

to your Olympic teammates when you broke your leg, the letters that you wrote.

I was like, you know how to do this, Abby.

Like you wrote letters to every single person on that team from the hospital room when you, when your leg was broken, telling them why they were so great.

And then you did the same thing with the kids when, when it was time to marry Glennon, you wrote them each a letter

from love

saying like, here's what I'm, I'm here for you.

I'm going to commit to you.

So

I think that it was so astonishing for so many people to imagine a world in which you you wouldn't know how loved you are.

You know, that you would be insecure, that maybe if you knocked on love's door, it would open and nobody would be there, or it wouldn't open.

Like even Abby Wombach,

you know, and that's why it's such an incredible service that you did to write the letter so vulnerably.

And I remember after you wrote it, you texted me and you said, I showed it to Glennon, and I said to Glennon, this is really vulnerable.

And she said, I think maybe it's supposed to be.

I'm like, yeah, it's not going to do anybody any good if it isn't.

Yeah.

You know,

because then what we hear is, yeah, that's also how I feel.

And

if you can reach for that and find it, then we can too.

So I know I screenshotted a bunch of responses and shared with you about how that substack community felt about your letter, but it was so important for them.

I think that with regards to like leadership too,

I've been a recovering professional athlete for the last almost eight years now.

And what I have learned is that so much of my life, I absolutely thought that leadership was just like white male and like just trying to be that.

And what I've learned over these like few years is, oh no, the reason why I think that I was such a good leader is because I did lead with so much vulnerability, but I wasn't able to lead myself.

in the vulnerability.

And I think that that's what has been so profound about this is you can be on the on the outside, you can look like this amazing champion, literally gold medal Olympian, and you can lead all the people around you amazingly.

And yet I didn't have that kind of quality for my own self.

So it's just, this has just been so, so impressive.

I feel impressed with myself, actually.

Oh, I love hearing that.

Yeah, I do.

I feel impressed with myself.

And what a beautiful experience to hear your person

read what they hear from love and learn what they most need to hear.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also that part about

those

scars on you

and

saying that those were healed long ago and it's just the stories you tell about them that are still there.

I was like,

oh,

yeah

well liz liz helped me with that one when she was here because we talk a lot about stories and byron katie and getting into the truth of it doing that exercise and i haven't stopped thinking about that since you left and i do that a lot of work in my personal therapy like it what is true here because i actually need to know what the truth is rather than the story i have so that that's been life-changing for me too when love said to you you've never been abandoned you've never been left um it just reminded me of something that that Byron Katie says, which is, you can't abandon me.

That's my job.

Like, I'm the only one who can abandon me.

Nobody else can do that.

They can leave.

People can leave, but they can't abandon me.

Only I can abandon me.

And as long as I have this practice, I can't abandon me.

Oof.

Oof, oof.

Okay,

Hod Squad.

We're going to stop here, but don't worry.

Yeah, what's coming next, babe?

Well, we're gonna come back and I'm gonna talk you through

the arduous,

difficult process that I went through.

You will be shocked to know that I made this very difficult.

Kicking and screaming, the love warrior had a tough time with the love letter, yeah, kicking and screaming.

I mean, y'all, just wait, come back.

We love you, we can do hard things.

See you soon.

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.

First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on follow.

This is the most important thing for the pod.

While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

We appreciate you very much.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlisle.

I walked through fire, I came out

the other side

I chased desire,

I made sure I got what's mine

And I continue

to believe

That I'm the one for me

And because I'm mine, mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

A final destination

lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a hard game.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes things fall apart.

And I continue

to believe

the best

people are free.

And it took some time,

But I'm finally fine

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that

Our final destination

we lack

We've stopped asking directions

to

places they've never been

And to be loved we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a hard pain.

We're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay with that.

We've stopped asking directions

in some places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find

our way back on.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do hard

things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we

can do hard

things.