252. Martha Beck Helps Amanda Let Go

It's the beginning of a new school year, and also classroom sniffles and sneezes that go along with it.

From home to school and back, stock up with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues.

Start the school year off the right way by preparing for the messes that come with it.

You don't want to be caught without a tissue on hand to help.

Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues are soft and absorbent to stand up against runny noses, to keep you and your family clean and comforted as the school year starts.

This to school season, make sure to get the classroom essential that teachers and students can rely on.

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

I've realized that the smallest parts of my day, waiting for water to boil, take a break between tasks, are the perfect moments to learn something new.

That's why I've been turning to masterclass.

It's a simple way to make those in-between moments feel intentional.

I've picked up insights from the world's best, chefs, athletes, writers, entrepreneurs, all in just a few minutes at a time.

One lesson that really made an impact, James clear on habits.

He said, you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems.

That completely reframed how I approach my mornings.

Now I've built a routine that actually sticks and works.

What I love is that Masterclass isn't just inspiring, it's practical.

Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash hard things.

That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash hard things.

Masterclass.com slash hard things.

And I continue to believe

that I'm the one for me.

Hi, Martha.

Hi, everyone.

How are you?

Better now.

My work here is done.

And that was We Can Do Hard Things with Martha.

I would be so relieved if that was all it was.

Okay, so it's been so fun, everyone.

We're all fixed up.

I just re-listened to the Amanda Relaxes podcast or Amanda Talks About Relaxing.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you for coming here today.

After we did that episode, it was episode 238 and we got off and Glennon was like,

we can no longer have this discussion without the Martha Beck to guide us.

We are wandering in the wilderness without her and she needs to come and we need some adult supervision to tell us what's going on.

So

I was just thank you.

I loved you all so much.

You were trying so hard, all all of you, to stop trying so hard.

Dr.

Martha Beck is a best-selling author, life coach, and speaker, offering powerful, practical, and entertaining teachings that help people improve every aspect of their lives.

She is known for her unique combination of science, humor, and spirituality.

For over two decades, she has been, in the words of NPR and USA Today, the best-known life coach in America.

Her published works include several self-help books and memoirs, including New York Times and International Bestsellers, Finding Your Own North Star, and Expecting Adam.

Martha's most recent book, The Way of Integrity, Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times bestseller.

Okay, for the listener to get you up to speed, if you haven't listened to 238, listen to that episode.

But it was

about a relaxation intervention that Abby and Glennon were trying.

to

have with me that didn't go

the way that they thought it would go.

And, but it's more about, it's more than about relaxing.

It's about this like quandary that I'm having about what, how am I blocking myself from being human and feeling the breadth of the human experience?

And why,

is it my approach to life that's fucking me up?

Or is it my obligations that like

can't let me access those things?

Or is it some mix of the two?

And

it becomes a dynamic among us because

Glennon gets stressed when I'm stressed.

And then we do this work together.

So she's then like, how

I don't want this work to be hurting you.

And so should we stop doing this work?

And then I get more stressed because then I think it's all going to.

Sure.

You know, so I thought it was very interesting, Martha Beck, that when we sent you the episode and said, Can you help us?

SOS,

your notes back

were actually

about

our dynamic with the three of us mostly.

A little bit.

Can you share that to start this?

You'll notice that Glennon hasn't said any words, probably because I just read all

of your notes out loud to her before.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make anybody feel shy.

But yeah,

basically, if you listen to 238,

it's three people talking about overworking, essentially, and losing touch with humanness, which I want to talk about.

Like, I'm not really sure what you mean by that.

When I first heard about this, they said they wanted you to feel more joy.

Joy, joy, joy.

That's more specific to me than humanness.

Anyway.

We'll get to that in a minute.

But what I felt was three people talking about the conundrum of being too stressed by life to feel joy.

And during that conversation, the whole thing could be described as a stressful effort to get something done.

So you were falling into the pattern as you were trying to fix the pattern.

And that's just, you end up with nothing to hang on to.

You just get pulled into a whirlpool of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not to insult you.

Here's the problem.

You're incredibly smart, all of you, and you're incredibly well-meaning.

But the way that's been expressed in your lives is overwork, exhaustion, loss of joy.

So how are you doing now, Amanda, since that 238?

I think that I

have this like dual relationship with it, which is like I

start to peek around the corner where I'm like, I could have that.

I could have that,

and then I get protective of myself because then I think

protect yourself from the hope that you could actually have that.

Okay, but what?

What is it you want to have

when you peek around the corner?

What you see is like, oh,

what is it you see?

Paint me a picture.

What's the thing you can almost have?

Some

ease, like some

times where

I

shouldn't be doing other things, time periods where it's not the conscious, like I am

choosing to

pay for this later

because I'm allocating time to this thing I want to do.

Because it just, that's what it feels like, like moving around little,

like,

uh what was that little atari game where all the pieces fit together it's like jenga uh that's the one with the blacks all down that's probably right jenga

sing away is all gonna tattoo sing away right where it feels like okay i can like reallocate this block but then i have to find space for it somewhere else because it's still got to get done so there's no actual ease it's just either paying for it now or paying for it later so you've got ease on one hand and then you've got uh something else on the other hand and you described it as functioning in that episode.

Like you're always functioning, so you can't be at ease.

Is that a fair estimation of what you mean?

I think it is.

I think it is.

And the fear that if I stop functioning, things won't.

It's like, okay, so I have this potentially these, all these great things that I could enjoy.

Like I have

this awesome team that I love and I have this family and I have this work that's really meaningful.

And I get frustrated with myself because I feel like not actually enjoying that, not actually like fully living into the possibilities of what a blessing all of those things are

because I feel like I need to be maximally functioning in order to keep those things

beautiful.

So you have to.

So that,

yes,

so it's like it works for every bit of relaxation and joy.

And then it just feels like, well, I could stop doing that, but then it threatens the very things that I

am trying to protect.

But then I never can really truly access them because I'm always functioning.

Yes.

I gotcha.

So what do you mean by functioning?

What are you functioning at?

Your mother, you do this whole magnificent empire with Glenn and Abby of the whole doyle world.

Um, so you're working, you're raising kids.

To what end, Amanda, why are you doing this?

Like, what's your definition of victory?

If you live to be 110 healthy years old and you look back and the angel of death comes in and says, Okay, it's over, and you look back and you used your life, this wild and precious life

exactly the way, like you succeeded,

what would that look like

that

my

people

knew me

and loved me and their lives were made better because of me

and that

I knew and loved my people

and allowed my life to be made better because of them.

And that also, I did what

I could uniquely do

in the world.

You did what you could uniquely do in the world, which I think is a brilliant

way of phrasing your mission in life.

What is the thing that you can uniquely do in this world that would constitute complete success?

At the risk of sounding

self-important.

No, go for it.

We know you're a big, big soul.

Go for it.

No modesty.

I think that

I think that I am

good

at

locating what feels like

unique and idiosyncratic

pain

and malaise and frustration within like a bigger framework of what has always been happening in the world.

And I hope that by being able to name that,

it helps

people to see that like it's not

their failure in the world.

It's just the way the world has always worked and that

getting a little freer from that.

So, your unique ability is to name the pain that people feel in the world

and help them see that it's not their fault

to give it a little more meaning that is not like

their failure,

but is part of something that is

systemic so that

they can

use what would be self-hatred

to get

mad and use the anger to free themselves.

Okay, so there is something systemic that is taking people away from their joy, and you can name it for them and tell them that it's not their fault, and then they can be free from the pressure of this system

that has them.

Maybe.

Is that fair?

Let me put it in another way.

Okay, so one thing I noticed so much on the 238, the famous episode 238, is how incredibly verbal you are.

And you not only think verbally, but you think in like

very complex analytical language, much more than most other people do.

And it's because you and Glennon are both wordsmiths.

Abby jumps right in and joins, you know, runs with the cheetahs with the best of you.

So it was, that was a festival festival of words.

And

I think Glennon brought up the point that you're also an animal.

So what I saw with you, Amanda, and I'm just jumping in, like ordinarily I would spend hours teasing this out of you, but I'm just going to go for it because here we are recording.

All of you are caught in a system

where you need to produce high value in terms of our culture's definition of achievement.

So if that's winning the championship, if it's having more episodes of more podcasts, if it's getting more people to a feeling of liberation from the system,

that's success.

We're going to go and find the places where people are stuck in misery and we're going to set them free to be truly human.

And we're going to do that with,

there was a point where Glennon said, well, we could cut down to just one podcast a week.

And you were like,

no, we have to reach more people and free them from the system.

That's the system.

I have to make more podcasts to free people from having to make more things.

If you looked back and said, I set so many people free from the obligations that had been imposed on them by culture that had nothing to do with their true nature, I set people free from that.

Would that feel like success?

Yes.

That was my guess.

So

you're going to do it?

Are you going to actually set yourself free, or are you going to kill yourself telling people that they have to do less?

It's a whole do-as-I say, not as I do scenario.

And I'm sorry to be so direct.

And I can feel your little heart.

No.

How does that feel?

Because I worry that I've injured you.

No, no, please.

No.

Okay.

I am here for the full contact sport.

True.

Is it true?

Does it work that way?

Because I'm wondering: is there the people that like,

do the people that live

freely

actually help other people.

I think I can help people sometimes.

You love that.

I do exactly what I freaking want.

I mean, I don't do a podcast every week, let alone two.

Because you know what?

Even if it would set more people free, I wouldn't be free.

If I can't show up free, it is impossible for me at an energetic level to help others be free.

But if I show up free, it is impossible for me at an energetic level not to set others free.

That rings true.

Thanks, Abby.

So

there are different levels going on here.

And Amanda, you're so, so, so, so intellectual.

And that's beautiful.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

And when you say, I showed up for the full contact sport, I believe that part of you.

I also see

a part of you that is like a baby deer.

And it runs and it runs and it runs.

It was born knowing how to run.

And it's running to save everyone.

And like there are tigers right behind it.

And it's terrified to slow down and it's terrified to be caught.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

I think you're right about that.

I'm terrified to

I'm terrified to stop.

Yeah.

And I'm terrified to let myself fantasize about stopping because I believe that I won't be actually able to.

And then that will be even more crushing than just continuing to run.

Wow.

Super honest.

Yeah, I love this.

What does the future hold for business?

Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.

Bull market, bear market.

Rates will rise or fall.

Inflation, up or down.

Can someone please invent a crystal ball?

Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite, the number one AI cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform.

With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth, giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

With real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next.

Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

I highly recommend it.

Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash hard things.

The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things.

Netsuite.com slash hard things.

We do a strange little exercise and it's partly designed to pull you a little bit out of the left hemisphere of your brain, which is so analytical, but is also driven.

And it also tends to do things to excess.

One, all left hemispheres do.

So to do this, I often have people hold up their literal physical hands because that activates two sides of your brain.

And Abby and Glennon, please jump in.

put it on your lap or whatever's comfortable.

But what I want, Amanda, is to talk to the, see the two sides of you, the part that is driving, driving, driving.

I want that one to be in your right hand as a two inch tall miniature.

And you give it the form you want.

Maybe it's like a soldier that is like saying, go, go, go, march, a Navy SEAL, right?

Like

top level.

That's in your right hand.

And it just stomps around going, move, move.

We can't afford to stop moving.

See it?

Yep.

I call mine the dictator.

What do you want to call yours?

Well, my first husband was a Navy SEAL.

I guess I shouldn't call it that name.

Go right ahead.

Got it.

Okay.

Or call it the Army Ranger, whatever.

Yeah, call it a Navy SEAL.

Ranger, Ranger.

Okay, let's do those.

Now,

in your other hand, your left hand, there's that part of you that is terrified, terrified to stop running.

The baby deer part.

Yeah.

In my mind, I call that the wild child.

And it's just a little, like, maybe eight-year-old

dressed in rags, been raised by wolves, right?

And

the right side of your brain doesn't use language.

So the wild child doesn't have any language.

It's just an ache.

It's just a cry.

It's just a yearning.

And it's it's just trying to be good.

Can you see yours?

What does it look like?

I think like little me, little kid me.

Yeah?

How old would you guess?

Like preschool?

Okay, so little, like four, three, four.

little one

okay

now

oh sweetie okay so there she is and she's just is she sitting down is she standing up what's she doing

um

I think she's standing up.

Okay.

How does she feel?

Nervous.

Hmm.

So let's just stop and like

relax a little bit and let her know that I'm not, I don't want to hurt her.

But in an abbey, don't want to hurt her.

We don't need to make her do anything, not one thing.

She just gets to be this little girl.

That's it.

During this session, I've got her.

I won't let anyone hurt her.

Got that?

Does she feel that?

Okay.

So, what shall we call her?

Panda.

Amanda.

Amanda Panda.

Amanda Panda.

Amanda Panda.

That's so cute.

Okay.

So Amanda Panda is in your left hand, little, little, and the Navy Seal is in your right hand.

Ranger.

We'll call her the general.

The general.

General's over here.

Okay.

The general is like.

Go, go, go.

You can't afford.

Get up and move.

Come on.

You've got functioning to function at.

Come on.

And the little Amanda Panda is going, what, what?

Just get up and move.

Can you feel that?

You said in episode 238 that sometimes there's a part of you that gets mad at you for being silly and relaxed, but also at other people for being silly and relaxed.

So that's the general.

Okay.

And it's yelling at all the Amanda Pandas in the world to stop being Amanda Pandas and start being part of the military.

You know, like march when you're told to march, you sleep for five hours and you're up and at them again.

Okay.

And so the whole culture divides all of us.

Well, it doesn't divide us.

It wants us to be like the general.

We live in a society that is based on the factory line, which never stops.

And it's always dedicated to the production of more.

Did you know when they had factories come into villages, people weren't showing up on time, so they put in these horns in the factories that would wake up every single person in the village at five in the morning to make sure they got to work.

And we still live in that culture.

So there's the general.

And you can see how society formed the general.

And can you look at them both and see?

that the general is actually trying to be good.

Yeah.

And can you see that Amanda Panda is also trying to be good?

Now let me ask you something.

Are they tired?

I think the general is tired and the

panda is scared.

Is she tired of being scared?

How long has she been scared?

I don't really know.

I haven't really thought about her that much.

So,

can you ask her?

Or would she let me ask her?

Okay.

Because I'm really all about her side.

You speak her language.

Yes.

So, sweetheart, little Amanda Panda,

you feel scared, yeah?

Does she ever let you relax

how she doesn't really know what she's supposed to do no because she doesn't even understand language but can she hear that she's being pounded on to get up and do things all the time

Like when I see her, she's just like kind of looking around nervously, like, what am I supposed to be doing?

I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.

Oh, okay.

Let me try this.

I'm going to do something.

Then I'm going to take this a certain direction.

So, I want you to put your hands down and look at both of them: the general and Amanda Panda.

And you can see that they're very different people, yeah,

and yet they're both really deep intrinsic parts of you: the achiever and the exister, the

consciousness that has no functioning, it just perceives.

Can you feel that both of them are trying very hard, that both of them them are inherently good.

So there's no criticism and no judgment here whatsoever.

Can you feel compassion for both of them?

Yes.

At the same time.

Yes.

So look at them both and offer them a loving kindness wish like, may you be well.

May you both be well.

May you both be happy.

May you both be content.

May May you both be satisfied.

May you both be happy.

Just sink into that.

Can you go there?

Okay.

Do you want me to say it out loud?

No.

It's enough to say it to them in your head, in your heart.

But I can feel that you're there.

So right now you're not a manda panda who's confused and nervous, and you're not the general who's driven.

You're something else.

Who are you?

Because you're not a man-to-panda, and you're not the general, you're something else.

What are you?

Someone who can choose?

Sure, you have the agency to choose

but actually you're not having to choose you can love both sides

you can love the paradox you can contain a paradox

and what i felt when you dropped in was just pure compassion

can you find that place of pure and total compassion

And then look at Abby and Glennon.

And without thinking about them as producers or functioners or people who get things done, look at them through the eyes of that same compassion.

Now, if imagine people doing a funny, silly thing and your general would jump up and go, stop that.

Can you feel the general tense up like that?

When people are being silly.

Now, so say to the general when it gets activated, may you be well,

may you be happy.

I loved you, you're good.

Sit down now, sweetie.

Sit down.

It's okay.

You don't have to do it anymore.

Can she feel that?

Or he or it?

They?

Yeah.

I think

I wonder what that that would be like in those

moments because

it does feel like it's like coming from within me, right?

Where I feel like

I

that's like a resentment or something, you know.

And right.

I think because I've gotten so, I've so like

divorced myself

from

the ability to access that when I see it being accessed around me.

It's like a visceral kind of,

if I can't have that, you can't have that kind of feeling.

Right.

Right.

So

like, wish the general and Amanda Panda well and tell them they can go to sleep now.

And I want to talk to you about this person who feels that resentment.

Okay.

Mine babies.

You've had Dick Schwartz on the show, right?

The guy who created.

No,

we talked to Becky Kennedy about Dick Schwartz's work.

We have not spoken directly to him, but wow, that I was just thinking about that when you said thank you.

I was like, oh, that feels like my general part is front and center.

So we all consist of many people.

We all consist of many parts.

And it gets really confusing because we're like, I want to relax, but somehow I don't want to relax.

And it's because there's a part of you that wants to relax and there's another part that doesn't.

Once you say it, it's not exactly rocket science.

But you have a very strong sort of,

you just said, when you see someone being silly or you think about being silly yourself, it triggers a resentment.

So what I want you to do is just relax as much as you can and go to the feeling of that resentment.

You were able to access it really well a second ago.

Can you find it?

Okay.

When it's active, what do you you feel inside your body where is it located in the body

it's like in my core my center all right and it rises

okay

so what does it look like

it's like flashes out of me oh not a

It's not like a conscious thing.

It's just like a

is it like a flame?

Is it like a dragon?

If it flashes, that gives me the image of fire.

What's it like for you?

Yeah, I think it's pretty fiery.

Okay, so it's

like a dragon that comes out and breathes that fire.

Now, notice that I'm trying to pull you away from analytical language into visual and sensory details.

If you are going to experience joy, that shift is at the core of it.

So getting out of language and analysis and into sensation and emotion, our culture says it's cheaper and stupider.

Like, pure thought in the abstract is the gold standard.

Only all it does is it runs us in little circles.

It makes a little factory line of our heads and it throws our lives into it.

And there go our lives.

That has been my experience.

You said it.

So

you feel this flashing resentment, this fire.

Do you want to give it a name to so we can just refer to it this part of you

it's like the um

bouncer

because i think it's like because

i know that that is true of me but i'm not having it yeah and so since i'm bouncing it out of me all the time it's i'm bouncing it out of you like okay because

That should be mine, but I'm not letting myself.

Okay.

So there's the bouncer.

How do you feel about the bouncer?

I

the bouncer is a giant asshole.

Everyone hates the bouncer.

I hate the bouncer.

The bouncer is no fun.

Like, it's so annoying.

Now,

I don't want to get too complicated with all these parts, but it's very important.

So, you know what the bouncer is, and you'll, there's another part of you that hates the bouncer.

Yes.

Find that part,

the part that hates the bouncer.

This is good.

Thank you.

We all have these.

Play along.

I know.

I'm doing it.

I'm like, oh, there you are.

Who is it that hates the bouncer?

Where is it in your body?

Just feel it.

Feel it.

It's like deeper in my belly.

Okay.

It's deeper in my belly than the bouncer is.

The bouncer is like higher up in a flash.

Okay.

And the bouncer hater is like lower and slower to come up, usually, like just a

30 seconds after the bouncer.

Okay, so what are you gonna call it?

Um,

Penelope,

okay.

Is it like a descriptor word or just a name?

Anything that comes to you that seems to fit.

Um,

the

come on, that's

come on.

All right.

Oh, come on.

Sit again.

All right.

So now I want to talk to the part of you that's, come on.

Can I talk to her?

Is she aware that I'm here?

Okay.

What I'm going to ask her to do, and this will sound really odd, but I really, I would ask her to respond, not you.

Okay.

So come on.

I'm talking to you.

If you could just give me some space,

I would like you to like step out of Amanda and like sit maybe two or three feet away from her.

And I promise I will let you right back in after I've finished talking to the rest of her.

So could you please sit on the couch and let me have access to the rest of Amanda?

Come on is delighted to excuse herself.

She is very excellent.

So give her a good stiff drink and you know,

and a little leopard outfit, whatever.

Like let her have some fun.

Okay.

Now, come on, is over on the couch.

And I'm here to talk to the bouncer, whom everybody hates.

Now,

I don't hate the bouncer.

Could I talk to the bouncer, please?

It's that flashing energy.

Can I talk to it?

Is it willing to talk to me?

Yes.

Okay.

So

I think you're doing.

a very, very significant job.

I think you have taken on the responsibility of making sure everything happens the way it has to happen.

Tell me where I'm wrong again.

Here's the okay.

The bouncer sometimes it's like

these are actually things I want to be happening in my life.

Sure.

Like I want there to be like ease and joy.

So why does the bouncer show up and like get mad at

that?

Okay, so whatever, just talk to me.

Could it please step aside?

Because I want to talk to the bouncer about that.

Okay.

So, bouncer, you see some people being silly, and you're like,

Why,

bouncer, why are you doing that?

Because it's not fair.

Okay,

why isn't it fair

for people to have fun?

Because

I don't get to you never got to and and how old were you when you first realized that you never get to have fun

let her answer not Amanda I want to talk to the bouncer

how old you were you when you realized you never get to have fun again

I don't know I don't know how old I was

Probably younger than I should have been.

Remember the age that came up when I asked you to look at your hand?

It was preschool.

Does that land?

How old were you when you looked around and thought, I have to take control of this.

I'm the one who gets this.

Nobody else gets this.

I have to do this.

And that means

I never get to have fun again.

Elementary school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Little kid.

That's why I don't hate the bouncer at all.

She's just a little kid.

And she's taken on the responsibility probably for her family,

for the rest of the world,

because she knows she's smart, and she knows she's strong,

and she wants the best for everyone.

So

she's going to put her own happiness into the furnace.

And every time she sees somebody having fun, it flashes out for a second, but then she shuts it down again.

But she never ever stops burning.

And she's just a little kid.

I mean,

she's just baby.

Would you do that to one of your kids?

God, I hope I'm not.

I hope not.

How old are your kids right now?

11 and 9.

Okay, imagine sitting down with your nine-year-old and saying, guess what?

You are really smart and you are really strong.

So you are going to serve the world for the rest of your life.

And the only catch is: you will never get to experience joy, relaxation, fun, or ease again, ever.

So, kiss it, goodbye.

It's done.

It's over.

Would you do that to your nine-year-old?

No, of course not.

Okay, so bouncer.

I think I know

why.

Like,

I think when you flash that of like,

like, I remember when I was really little

and

if my dad would get really mad and start yelling,

then I remember I would try to

deal with it and say something and try to stop it and make things right.

And I always felt like that was what I had to do

to like make it not happen.

So your entire universe depends on creating harmony between people who have so many wounds and scars and have built up such a long relationship.

And now here you are, little, little.

Nobody can control any other person.

And here's this little kid doing her absolute utmost to control people

who were fully grown adults that had their own histories.

And you know what, Amanda?

I bet you were really good at it.

Even when you were two, three years old, I bet you were already doing it.

And Glennon's written about this.

Little ball of joy, make everybody happy.

You both do it.

Abby's done it.

It's, I only go train every day till I throw up so that the world can rejoice in my athletic ability or what, you know, like you've all thrown yourself into the furnace of the culture.

Make everything happy for everyone.

The only person who doesn't get to be happy in this equation is you.

But it's okay because you can touch so many millions.

Only you can't set them free if you don't leave the cage.

So, how do you feel toward this little one who was trying to help her parents be happy,

help keep the world on its axis?

How do you feel toward her now?

I feel sorry

for her that she didn't

like think that that was

her job to go have

life,

but just to like always

be aware of then what needed to be done.

Yeah.

So, can you ask her what she's afraid of?

Because she's not in the past.

She's still here.

She's a little kid, sort of locked into that.

Glenn said in the last episode, this is trauma behavior.

Yeah, it is.

The culture that tells us we are just meant to function in productive ways.

That is traumatizing to a small child who was not born for that.

Yeah, we have to traumatize it into ourselves.

So, if you could ask this little sweetheart, this because to me she's coming across as more like three than nine.

Could we ask her what she thinks would happen if she stopped doing her job?

Which is to make everything okay for everyone all the time?

It's funny because I'm circling back to like the

original

what is my purpose where I'm like it wouldn't be fair.

It wouldn't be fair for you to stop.

It wouldn't be fair for like

the people of my life

what would have occurred if I didn't

try to So

you're making an equation between feeling the need to be joyless and working all the time.

This is what I believe.

If you can set yourself free, if you can set this little one free,

what happens, actually, it's not that you would gain your full humanity.

It's to me,

you can use whatever language you like.

It actually allows you access to something that is bigger than our humanity.

It gives you access to this pure, compassionate energy that is flowing into the world then through you.

And there's tremendous joy.

And sometimes you do things.

Often you do things.

Things get done and you're like, huh, I wonder how that happened.

But it takes this huge risk of departing from the cultural paradigm.

of continuous physical and intellectual work and saying,

I believe that I am meant for joy.

I believe every human is meant for joy.

So let's jump off this cultural paradigm and go to the places where we are in joy and see what happens.

Will everything actually grind to a halt?

If you were experiencing intense joy, would you then be unable to work?

Yeah, that's a good no.

I don't think you've ever really tried that as an experiment, experiment, but I would like it if you did.

So, Abby Glennon,

my impression of both of you in the little bit that I've known you is that you often work from joy.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

That's true.

Whether you are working remotely or in office, many of us require collaborating with team members on projects, tasks, and outcomes.

Monday.com is one of our sponsors and a platform that our team at Treat Media has actually used to coordinate our workflow.

It is a platform that helps you from planning to execution, thinks ahead to deadlines, assign owners and actions, and allows you to see progress as a team.

It actually helps us get some work done.

There is a lot of AI out there, but not a lot actually moves the needle.

Monday.com's sidekick is different.

It can actually build workflows, spot risks, update the team.

You just say what you need, and you can consider it done.

Sidekick in Monday.com saves so much time.

Using our Sidekick integration helps to update deadlines, brief teammates, reassign tasks, and it even helps us spot risks before they actually become problems.

Stop managing the busy work.

Let Monday Sidekick handle it so you can focus on the real work.

Try Monday Sidekick, AI you'll love to use on monday.com.

When I I first met you, your relationship was really new.

And talk about jumping off the cultural paradigm, right?

And you wrote about this in Untamed, but it's like you saw each other and your hearts

knew.

They

ignited and you got together and there was so much joy.

Am I getting this right?

Is the story?

It's correct.

And that's the story of our family a little bit.

When sister is talking about about the time she would jump into the fray with our family, she'll also tell you that if she tries to imagine who was there, that I just wasn't there.

I would be hiding.

I would run away or I would be in my room.

Wow.

And I was older.

So

for me, it feels like maybe it's

My sister gets to have it.

I don't get to have it.

Like, I wonder if that's what my sister thinks.

It could be that.

But I would actually, one of the interesting things in therapy systems now is that they're stepping away from looking at the incidents that happened in childhood, even if obviously if you have a trauma, you have to talk to someone about it.

But instead of saying, oh, these were the family dynamics, it just looks at the parts that are functioning now.

So it's like if you came in to me and you had an arrow stuck in your chest and I said,

I need to get this arrow out.

And I said, okay, but I want to know about exactly how you got shot and who was holding the bow and how far did you draw back?

Just get the arrow out, right?

The arrow here is that Amanda developed the theory at a very, very core part at a very, very young age that by continuously functioning, as she puts it, continuously working in very narrow defined ways, she can make the world a safer place and do her life's work.

But she sacrificed herself for that.

So by comparison, I'm glad you ran away, Glennon.

And it did not make Amanda feel like she had to take care of things.

That just happened.

It's not your fault.

It just, she reacted like she reacted to circumstances.

I want to go to the one thing I know well about Abby and Glennon, which is the joy of their relationship and how it just took a running leap off a cliff so that they could have it.

Very few people would have made that jump.

And look how unproductive it's been.

How dare you?

How very dare you go for joy and do nothing?

Like this whole thing is because of your joy.

Yeah, that's right.

That's so true.

You told us that.

You told us that.

I was one of the voices, but damn,

if I were good enough to just fix it like that for everyone, everyone would be free.

Because I've tried, damn it.

I've tried for decades.

I did the joyless thing.

And then I'm just like, no,

I will not.

So I just want to gently talk to the little parts of Amanda and say, recognize when that part rears up.

Get that resentful energy.

And instead of hating it, you can bring in, come on, you can bring in that part again.

But does she now know that the bouncer is just a little girl who's trying to control a scary situation?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that the bouncer also like

knows

even more that the things that upset the bouncer are the things that are actually,

I need.

Like that's why the bouncer reacts so much.

Yeah.

that I actually really am very silly.

But

because I foreclosed that to myself.

a part of you it's very helpful to see it as part yes a part a part because otherwise you just keep getting stuck and getting stuck and getting stuck in the contradictions that that's what happened in episode 238 the infamous um

so what you do is go oh my gosh a part of me resents the fact that people are having fun oh a part of me hates the part of me that resents it oh it's okay it's little amanda it's Amanda Panda throwing herself into the furnace.

And instead of saying, this is so weird, I want this, yet I value this, yet I don't do that.

You sit down with the little group of them and say, Okay, peeps, yes, it's a rough world, and we're all caught on the horns of this productivity-obsessed culture.

But let's all just take a breath.

And the reason I wanted to do the hands exercise is that when you feel compassion for the parts of your personality, what you feel is not another part.

It's what Richard Schwartz calls self with a capital S.

And it runs through everyone.

And it is

inconceivably powerful and productive.

But all it does is love.

And the first thing it has to love is the cast of characters inside your own mind.

Love the bouncer.

Love, come on.

Love the general.

Can you find compassion for the whole group of you

gosh aren't you beautiful aren't they all beautiful they are and they're all just like trying so hard yes

so hard

and abby and glennon can you see the parts of yourself that are so beautiful like the part that makes abby work out till she throws up and the part that would rather stay in bed and be goofy and glennon the part that hates food and never wants to eat again and the part that loves food and wants to eat everything in the world Like,

we're all made up of these different parts, and we're every one of those is perfectly human.

But the love holding us is bigger than human.

It'll be there when you're on your deathbed.

It won't have changed a bit.

It'll still be able to love little Amanda.

So

the practice, and Abby made this beautiful list of things to put into your schedule because your schedule was too full of things.

And that's what the culture does.

You have too much to do.

Well,

put it on your daily prospectus to do less.

Internally contradictory.

But one thing that is not contradictory and that you can do anytime is to notice the different parts coming up.

There's the part that's exhausted.

There's the part that never, that never stops moving.

There's the general, there's all of them.

And say to them,

What a beautiful creature you are.

Be well.

Be happy.

Be satisfied.

Come into my arms.

I'm so proud of you.

And I don't care if somebody listening to this is a heroin addict on the street.

I have worked with heroin addicts on the street

and self still loved them

from inside them, from me, from everywhere.

They were just

casts of fascinating characters doing their damn best.

And then see,

if maybe

the bouncer will kind of back off a little sometimes.

And maybe, come on, we'll actually give her a cuddle.

And

then you'll find yourself doing something kind of goofy

and you'll be like no well no having a fixed bit

i love the part that says no but we're gonna try something new

beautiful

beautiful so how are all your bits now

I feel like I'm giving them all a big hug.

That's beautiful.

Oh, everybody out there listening to this, if you have the impulse to give yourself a big hug, you do it.

I mean, for God's sake, the world hasn't done it for you.

But it's right there inside us, the infinite capacity to love every aspect of our experience.

And when we fall back into that, it's like falling into a cloud.

All I want to do is that.

I just.

try to focus on loving my bits.

Loving your bits.

That actually sounds really naughty.

And do not.

No, I like it.

I like it when I can remember it really easily.

Love your bits.

I'm Martha Beck.

Have you loved your bits today?

It's good.

I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference.

That's why I think ALMA is so cool.

Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience.

You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else.

And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard.

You know, I love that.

That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media.

It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress.

Better with people, better with Alma.

Visit helloalma.com/slash hardthings to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

That's hello A L M A dot com/slash hardthings.

I feel like this is like so fascinating to me because,

yes, I've learned a little bit about IFS, internal family systems, and

you know, having children, I can see this really being helpful for kids who are going through puberty and hormones and trying to figure out what parts they're developing.

Like they're actually in the process of developing the parts, you know?

Yeah.

So it's like an interesting way of not controlling, but just like help giving them more access to parts of themselves because i didn't when we were growing up i had no no we had this idea you were a self you were one like when you think about the idea it's about what a self is that the theory is that we are actually more like communities than individuals yeah um

and god it's helpful And one of the biggest contributions from Dick's work as well is this identity.

He said after working for thousands of hours with everybody's inner community, he found that the self would step forward in every single person, people in prison, everybody, and he'd say, what part is that?

And they would say,

that's actually not a part.

That's what I am.

And from then on, the whole goal of that kind of therapy is to identify the self, locate it, and then allow it.

to love the other parts.

And it's always the self that heals the community.

It's never the the therapist.

Damn.

Wow.

We're going to stop here.

We're going to come back.

I get stressed out every time.

This is really healthy.

I get stressed out every time I'm with Martha because all I see is the minutes counting down that we're going to have left with her.

But we're going to come back and have Martha respond to a lot of pod squatters with challenges, which makes me so excited.

But what also makes me excited is that we can, based on this episode, we know we can actually look into the mirror in the morning and say, we can do hard things.

Yeah.

Oh, because there's

all parts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's go.

You're not like, I,

oh, I'm, I'm shitty today.

I'm good tomorrow.

I'm shitty today.

You're no, you're like, no, I'm just a different part was forward today.

A different part was operating the machinery.

in that moment.

And I would actually say, yeah, we can do hard, hard things.

And then as you're looking in the mirror, have all the parts step aside a minute and see

nothing but the light, nothing but the self.

And it will say to all the parts, you can do hard things, but you don't have to.

You don't because I will.

And y'all

relax,

be happy.

That's what you're here for.

That's it.

I'll do the rest.

We got to rethink our whole title.

I don't think so.

We'll see.

Thank you.

Thank you, Papa.

So much.

We love you.

Thank you.

If you'd like to go back and listen to the episodes that we mentioned in today's conversations, don't forget to listen to the three other times that Martha has been on this pod and rocked our world.

And also, if you want to learn about the internal family systems that we talked about in this episode, check out episode 170, The Most Radical Way to Heal with Dr.

Becky Kennedy.

We'll see you next time, pod squad.

Are you okay, Sister Bear?

Yeah, how are you?

Sort of.

No, I'm great.

I'm great.

Seriously.

Just don't fake it.

Tell me what's really going on.

No,

I feel like I want to go meditate on everything.

You know what I mean?

I want to fully let it digest, but that was really powerful.

And I thank you so much.

Thank you.

And when you go, just hold Amanda Panda on your lap.

I will.

Yeah.

She's been waiting a while.

She's very cuddly.

She hasn't been waiting a while.

She's like, what the fuck took you long enough?

That's the way she was looking.

That's why she was so nervous.

She's like, geez.

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things.

First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things?

Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right-hand corner or click on Follow.

This is the most important thing for the pod.

While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

We appreciate you very much.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with with Cadence 13 Studios.

I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

I walked through fire, I came out the other side.

I chased desire, I made sure I got what's mine.

And I continue

to believe

that I'm the one for me.

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks don't map

a final destination.

We lack

we've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a heart again.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes things fall apart.

And I continue to believe

the best

people are free.

And it took some time,

but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

Our final destination

lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a hard thing.

We're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay

with that.

Stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find

our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do hard things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we

can do hard

things.