224. Get REAL Pleasure & Stop Faking It with Vanessa Marin

Speaker 1 What if you could bleach and color without wrecking your hair? With K18 Molecular Repair Hair Mask, you can. It's not another quick fix with false promises, it's hair science.

Speaker 1 The patented K18 peptide repairs hair at the molecular level. That's really, really deep.
So you can keep coloring and still have hair that feels soft, strong, and bouncy.

Speaker 1 Because yes, we can do hard things, but your hair doesn't have to be one of them. Shop K18's mask at Sephora Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase with code hardthings at k18hair.com.

Speaker 1 That's code hardthings at k18hair.com.

Speaker 2 To be loved, we need to belong.

Speaker 3 Hello, love bugs.

Speaker 4 Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things.

Speaker 3 Today we have a sweet, sexy episode for you with our fave, Vanessa Morin, who makes sex feel doable.

Speaker 5 She's gotten you talking.

Speaker 4 This is the fourth episode that we've done here.

Speaker 6 I know.

Speaker 3 With Vanessa.

Speaker 4 I just like the reader.

Speaker 3 I like Vanessa's approach very much.

Speaker 3 Vanessa Morin is a sex therapist and New York Times best-selling author of Sex Talks, The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, co-written with her husband, Xander Morin.

Speaker 3 Vanessa is here to help you kick shame out of the bedroom so you can start feeling the connection, pleasure, and joy you deserve. Thank you for coming back again.

Speaker 3 We just wanted to ask you a bunch of questions.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm right.

Speaker 4 Is that okay?

Speaker 3 And I want to ask you also to tell us what people ask you the most often.

Speaker 3 First, I want to ask you this. We've done three episodes together already.

Speaker 3 And one of the most frequently asked questions to me after people listen to those episodes are: if I've been faking orgasm with my partner i've heard this like 20 times okay

Speaker 3 if i have been faking orgasms with my partner

Speaker 3 how do i come clean i want to stop it now i want to get real i want to start over i want to explore how to have an actual orgasm but i'm in so much shame and fear because i've been faking it this whole time

Speaker 3 Where do I start? So we'll just start with an easy one like that.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 7 Okay. You have two options here.
I'm going to give you two choices. But first, what I want you to start with is forgiving yourself.
So nobody sets out faking orgasms to be a jerk to their partner.

Speaker 7 Like, let me figure out how I can really mess with my partner. I'm going to fake this for 10 years.
And then when we get down there, then I'm really going to throw him for a loop.

Speaker 7 No, we fake orgasm because we're taught so much crap about how our bodies work. We're taught that it's not okay for us to ask for what we want.

Speaker 7 We're taught that we're supposed to be more focused on our partner's experience than our own. It's a whole lot of BS that a lot of us have been taught.

Speaker 7 And faking feels like the easiest way to get around all of that. And I say that as somebody who faked every single orgasm with every partner for years.
So I get this. So going forward, what do we do?

Speaker 7 Two options. The first one is the harder one.

Speaker 7 So that's to come clean to your partner and tell them that you have been faking.

Speaker 7 And so if you want to do that, what I would do is share with your partner the reasons why you started faking and talk about all those things that I mentioned.

Speaker 7 Like I was taught it wasn't okay for me to ask for what I want. I never knew what my body needed.
I was ashamed. So share it with your partner.

Speaker 7 So you're helping give them the context of, I never meant this to hurt you. I completely understand that it does.

Speaker 7 And then you have to leave the space for your partner to have their feelings about it because they're going to have feelings. And it's going to be tricky.
They're going to feel like sad.

Speaker 7 They might feel upset. They might feel like their trust has really been shaken.
So you're going to have to sit with that.

Speaker 7 And that is going to be challenging, but it's also can be a huge relief to finally just get everything out there in the open and be able to regroup after that.

Speaker 7 Okay, how do we need to approach our sex life differently to make sure that this is happening for you? Because I can. almost guarantee you that your partner wants you to be having real orgasms.

Speaker 7 So if that option just has you sweating from head to toe, then the other option is to tell a little bit of a white lie around this and to tell your partner, I've been noticing lately that the things that my body is responding to feel really different from what it used to respond to.

Speaker 7 And so I want to be able to like give you more feedback for us to like try some new things out. I'm not really sure why I'm not responding the same way that I used to, but things are just different.

Speaker 7 And you can even say like, you know, when I'm masturbating, touching myself, like I'm noticing things feel different.

Speaker 7 So this is a white lie. It's not really the truth of what happened, but it is something that's different.

Speaker 4 Sort of true.

Speaker 8 Things are feeling different because you've decided you're not going to lie about it anymore.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Yeah. In general, my advice is always like the more open and honest we are, the better, even though it is very hard to do sometimes.

Speaker 7 But I do think this option can be okay in some circumstances where you're still giving your partner the ability to kind of reset of like, okay, we've got to try some different things.

Speaker 7 Let's find what's working. Let's see what you like.
And there also is a reality of like what we like does change throughout our lives.

Speaker 7 So couples get into trouble if they kind of get locked into a pattern of, well, this is what works. This is what we always do.
We talked about that before, right?

Speaker 7 So you're introducing this idea of just trying a slightly different approach. So that'll spare your partner's feelings.

Speaker 7 It won't feel as hard on you, but it'll still give you that opportunity to reset your sex life.

Speaker 3 That's nice to give. And everyone has different levels of safety in their relationships.
So that's

Speaker 3 great. But I I do think if it's possible in terms of sex being about everything,

Speaker 3 it's kind of a beautiful thing for your partner to know that you are a person

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 doesn't always say what you want. Here's an example.
I just learned in therapy that

Speaker 3 I never really say what I want to watch on TV.

Speaker 3 I just

Speaker 3 make a decision based on what I think the family, most of the people will want. And then I say that thing.
Anyway, the point being that a lot of women don't

Speaker 3 say what they need or want because they'd rather just keep the peace

Speaker 3 than

Speaker 3 introduce themselves.

Speaker 3 So, wouldn't it be a beautiful exercise in a relationship just to use that one thing to then begin to explain that you're going to start figuring out what you like and want and need in a lot of different areas and make it even bigger than about that one thing.

Speaker 3 It could become a revelation.

Speaker 8 You're the first person that you can trust to tell the truth about that information. Like I didn't tell these other people because I knew it wouldn't be relevant to them.

Speaker 8 And you're the first person that I trust.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Exactly.

Speaker 8 Wants to

Speaker 8 do this the real way with me.

Speaker 9 I want to circle back just really quick.

Speaker 5 What do you want to be watching on TV?

Speaker 4 I mean, honestly, I want to watch Vanderpump Rules.

Speaker 8 It's really what I want to watch.

Speaker 4 Really?

Speaker 3 I want to watch trash TV.

Speaker 9 And this is what's interesting is, is even though she's not saying what she wants, she's still very opinionated about what we end up watching.

Speaker 3 That's what we talked about with my therapist.

Speaker 9 Because she's fighting for the energy of the room and to control what. the thing is that we're all watching in a way.
And it's hilarious that it's not even what you want to be.

Speaker 4 It's a thing.

Speaker 8 That goes into the what do women want because the scariest thing, what I want desperately is for the energy in this room to be correct. What I want desperately is for what should happen to happen.

Speaker 8 Yes. But like, that's a different question than what do I want.

Speaker 3 I want to

Speaker 4 exploring.

Speaker 3 This is what we're exploring. Yeah.
I think that in my family, in work,

Speaker 3 wherever, I can be perceived as a bit of a tyrant. Like as I, no, I want my, but I'm never getting what I want.

Speaker 3 I'm just like trying to control the thing to make everybody happy,

Speaker 3 but nobody's going to be happy, but nobody's happy because nobody's getting what they want. This is another thing, Vanessa.
This is with a different therapist.

Speaker 4 Okay. Yeah, but absolutely.

Speaker 4 This is all so related.

Speaker 9 My God.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's really.

Speaker 7 It's all related.

Speaker 7 And this is what I think is so interesting about sex is it's very easy for us to compartmentalize sex and think, oh, it's just that thing that happens in our bedroom with the doors closed and the lights off.

Speaker 7 But how we show up in sex is how we show up in life.

Speaker 7 And so even if you're feeling really nervous to read sex talks, to have these conversations, to start working on your sex life, to remind yourself, this is going to have impacts wildly, wildly beyond the bedroom.

Speaker 7 This is going to affect every relationship in my life, every area of my life. There's so much growth to be had here.

Speaker 3 It is so true. It is so true.
It feels like you've got to nail it all before you can get to the sex part of your life. But actually, if you can just explore through sex, it can go the other way.

Speaker 3 It can start affecting every other part of your life. You can start with sex.
Can you talk to us about masturbating?

Speaker 3 Because you just said it like it's the easiest thing to talk about or like it's just nothing. But actually lots of us have been taught to be ashamed of masturbating.

Speaker 8 So

Speaker 3 just talk to us about how to undo the shame. What's the skinny on masturbating?

Speaker 7 Okay, I'll loop us back to the last episode. We'll really start talking about some hard things here.

Speaker 7 So we were talking about Amanda's experience with her daughter, like the back scratches at night, right?

Speaker 7 And like this way that kids are so tuned into their own bodies, their own needs, and their own desires.

Speaker 3 So kids masturbate.

Speaker 7 There is evidence of fetuses in the womb masturbating. Now, it's not masturbation in the way that we think of it as adults.

Speaker 7 A lot of us think of masturbation as, you know, very sexual, but for kids, it's, it's just an exploration of their bodies. Oh, that feels good, just like my little back scratches feel good.

Speaker 7 And a lot of us have had experiences as children of being caught masturbating. And that was one of the earliest experiences that we got of learning pleasure is not okay.
That's shameful.

Speaker 7 Don't do that. Don't touch yourself.

Speaker 8 Something is weird about you that you were inclined to do that.

Speaker 4 You're so weird.

Speaker 7 And in particular, women get a lot of negative socialization about masturbating as well. With boys, there's sort of a like, boys will be boys kind of thing about it.

Speaker 4 It's kind of a cute celebration.

Speaker 8 Yeah. I remember like the boy, baby boys in the bathtub and they're like playing with their penises.
And it's like, oh, isn't this hilarious?

Speaker 4 Like, we expect it.

Speaker 8 That is an appropriate exploration. But a girl doing it is like, oh, Jesus.

Speaker 7 Exactly. It's so much more shameful.
And so, as women, most of us feel deeply uncomfortable with the idea of masturbating. A huge percentage of women have never masturbated before.

Speaker 7 So, this is one of those areas where, for me, the best thing to do is just get really fired up about this. Like, masturbation is a deeply spiritual act.
Like being connected with your own body,

Speaker 7 understanding what your body needs to feel good, to feel pleasure, to have orgasms. Like what more powerful experience can you have with your own body?

Speaker 7 And yet, so many of us have been robbed of the opportunity to have that kind of relationship. We've been taught so much shame that we just never access that part of ourselves.

Speaker 7 So for me, masturbation is a reclamation. It's a, this is my body.
I deserve to touch it with love and curiosity and openness and excitement.

Speaker 7 I deserve to explore what brings me pleasure, to explore what brings me to orgasm. I deserve that intimate knowledge of myself, that intimate relationship with myself.

Speaker 7 So for me, that, yeah, that energy of like getting fired up about what we've been robbed of, that's such a great way to overcome the shame that might come up for you in the moment.

Speaker 7 So now, let me like like take a deep breath and dial that back on.

Speaker 4 That was so beautiful.

Speaker 7 Super, like

Speaker 7 practically, I always want to give like practical tips too. If you just feel so much shame about this, we can break it down into baby steps.
So a first one would be.

Speaker 7 just visualize yourself touching yourself. You don't actually have to touch yourself.
Just visualize it and practice getting comfortable just with that image.

Speaker 7 And then maybe the next step could be you just place your hand on the outside of your vulva and you don't move it. You're not touching anything.
You're not trying to make yourself feel good.

Speaker 7 You're literally just holding your hand over yourself and practicing like breathing deeply and connecting to yourself.

Speaker 7 So, I mean, even just that can be such a beautiful experience for so many women, but take it slow and ease your way into it.

Speaker 3 And you are a fan of vibrators, I imagine.

Speaker 7 Are we all fancy? I think vibrators. Vibrators can be great.
I mean, they can deliver an intensity of stimulation that the human body just cannot. And for a lot of people with

Speaker 7 ability issues, people on medications where they might not be feeling as sensitive, like they can be absolute life changers.

Speaker 7 Also, for people who have never really explored their genitals before and don't really know, like a vibrator is going to be a lot more intense.

Speaker 7 So it can be kind of a shortcut to like, oh, okay, that feels good. I know what that sensation is.
like. Yeah.
So I always like to be clear.

Speaker 7 Sometimes people think, oh, well, if you're using a vibrator, like it's, it's it's not the same or it's not the real thing. There's no orgasm hierarchy here.

Speaker 7 Like, you know, it's just whatever brings your body pleasure.

Speaker 8 Every year, I tell myself I'm going to live in the moment during the holidays. And then I blink and it's over.
The wrapping paper is gone, the tree is shedding.

Speaker 8 And if I want to relive any parts of it, I have to go through the photo app of my phone. That's why I love Aura frames.
They make those moments live on without adding another project to your life.

Speaker 8 I just upload photos of unwrapping gifts, cookie decorating, all of the best parts of the holiday, and now they pop up on the frame all year long. Setting it up was ridiculously easy.

Speaker 8 You just download the Aura app, connect to Wi-Fi, and add unlimited photos and videos. You can even preload pictures before it ships.
And so when someone opens it, it's already full of love.

Speaker 8 And it comes in this beautiful gift box. No wrapping, no stress.
They nailed it over there. You know what I'm talking about, right?

Speaker 8 It's like a frame that looks like it's just like got a picture in it, except all of your pictures rotate through it all year long without you even like making a fancy album.

Speaker 8 For a limited time, visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's best-selling Carver Matte Frames, named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code HardThings at checkout.

Speaker 8 That's A-U-R-A frames.com, promo code hardthings. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year.

Speaker 7 So order now before it ends.

Speaker 8 Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Speaker 8 Does stimulation, specifically clitoral stimulation by a vibrator, does that desensitize or make

Speaker 8 less

Speaker 8 likely

Speaker 8 manual

Speaker 4 stimulation to orgasm partner

Speaker 4 orgasm? That's what I was going to ask.

Speaker 7 It can, but it's not just about the vibrator.

Speaker 7 So it's, I think when we are masturbating, we have to be, and this is for people of all genders, all genitals, we have to be thoughtful about the patterns that we're creating on our own.

Speaker 7 So there's kind of this saying, the nerves that fire together, wire together, we're just very good at making patterns.

Speaker 7 And so if you are masturbating in the same way every single time, and so that could be with a vibrator, it could be a specific technique you're using.

Speaker 7 For people with penises, it could be using a certain level of pressure or certain level of speed. It could be watching porn, anything.

Speaker 7 If you are only doing that thing, your body just gets accustomed to it. And it can be harder to experience that with a partner.
So I think an easy rule of thumb is just mix it up with yourself.

Speaker 7 We talked about keeping it spicy with your partner. Keep it spicy with yourself.
Maybe like half the time that you masturbate, try something different.

Speaker 7 And then half the time you can use your old standby method. And then with vibrators in particular.
One thing that I find happens is vibrators can turn us into very lazy masturbators.

Speaker 7 For a lot of us, it's like you turn it on, you hold it in place.

Speaker 12 You just get 45 seconds.

Speaker 4 And yeah, exactly.

Speaker 7 Yeah, for a lot of people, you can have an orgasm like that. It's so funny.

Speaker 3 You can have an orgasm while you're planning your groceries. Just you don't even have to think about what you're doing.

Speaker 4 It's a quick commercial break.

Speaker 9 People have you seen the people who like wear, like they put an egg or some sort of vibrational device inside their partner and then they go out and their partner actually has the on and off button.

Speaker 4 So they're like walking down the aisles.

Speaker 11 No, they're like grocery shopping and they're like walking down the aisles and she goes and grabs like the Oreos from the aisle and she falls to the ground.

Speaker 4 She's not. Where are you missing this?

Speaker 12 What kind of Trogre are you at?

Speaker 9 I mean, these are on my reels on IG. Oh, for shit's sake.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 7 There are a lot of great Bluetooth enabled toys. But yes, and lazy masturbation is delightful sometimes.
Like I'm not knocking it.

Speaker 7 But if you are then with a partner, there can be this mental impatience that kicks in of like, oh, this is taking so long. And like, now I have to focus and I have to give feedback.

Speaker 7 So that's just something to be aware of.

Speaker 7 Like, it's okay to have your lazy masturbation, but sometimes practice being in the moment, moving the vibrator around, taking little breaks from the vibrator, and just recognize it's going to be different when you're with a partner.

Speaker 7 That's good.

Speaker 3 I just real quick want to tell you, just because I just thought of it,

Speaker 3 when I was in elementary school,

Speaker 3 this is the only time that I've ever had like a major athletic side is that we had this, it was called the Tough 20 club, and it was a rope that hung from the ceiling of the gym.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, and you're going with this.

Speaker 3 I could

Speaker 3 clear that rope. I was like the least athletic, but I was the first in line for that rope.
And I don't, I remember not knowing what the hell was happening.

Speaker 4 But by the time I got to the top of the rope, I was like, This is climbing ropes is the most amazing feeling,

Speaker 3 and just like hanging on to the top of the rope, looking out, like, oh my God, it's like heaven at the top of a rope.

Speaker 7 Wait, this is actually a huge gift that you're giving to your audience because this is one of the top three female masturbation techniques.

Speaker 4 It's like some sort of grinding sensation.

Speaker 7 So most girls discover this on the playground. I was with you exactly the same.
Like, I love PE.

Speaker 7 But some people will do it with, it could be like a balled up towel, clothes against the side of like a desk.

Speaker 7 So grinding is one of the top three techniques, but it's not something that ever gets talked about.

Speaker 7 So so many women feel like something is super wrong with me if that's the way that I used to get off, if that was the thing that worked for me. But it's not.

Speaker 7 It's incredibly, incredibly common and it makes perfect sense.

Speaker 3 Great. I feel better about it already.

Speaker 3 Vanessa, a lot of people after some of our episodes have asked, all of this stuff is hard enough to enter into, to talk to, to try to try new ways.

Speaker 3 What about people who are survivors of sexual abuse, of sexual assault, are people for whom this is triggering in very, very real ways?

Speaker 3 I just really would love to offer those people any help in terms of the very difficult climb out of like trying to find your safest place in a place that has been the least safe for you.

Speaker 7 Absolutely. So in Sex Talks, we do have a section of it where we talk about the experience of abuse.
We also have at our website, it's vmtherapy.com, my initials.

Speaker 7 If you go to the website, we have a free course that we give away to anybody who's been a survivor of sexual abuse. It's not meant to be a replacement for therapy.

Speaker 7 I want to be really clear about that. I think anybody who's experienced sexual abuse deserves to have the container of therapy.

Speaker 7 But it is a very practical guide for understanding the specific impacts that abuse can have on your sex life and for rediscovering how to make sex feel safe and pleasurable again.

Speaker 7 So it's called a survivor's guide. It's at vmtherapy.com.

Speaker 7 And so the main thing is it's really important to recognize that it does have impacts. So I'm going to just speak to women for now.

Speaker 7 I do want to acknowledge people of all genders have experienced sexual abuse, but a lot of women, when I work with them around this, have the tendency to downplay it. That happened so long ago.

Speaker 7 I'm over it by now. A lot of women have had it way worse than I had it.
And they don't recognize like what happened to you was not okay. It doesn't matter how long ago it was.

Speaker 7 It doesn't matter how bad or not bad it was. Like you never, ever deserve to have your boundaries violated.
And it's very important to recognize that it is going to impact your sex life.

Speaker 7 And that can be one of the hardest things. It's like you endured something you shouldn't ever have had to endure.
And you also have to deal with the lasting impacts.

Speaker 7 But a lot of women say it felt really validating to acknowledge that it is getting in the way. So, some common things that can come up is you might feel yourself dissociating during sex.

Speaker 7 Like, it feels like your body is there in the moment, but your brain, your spirit, your soul is like miles and miles away. You can even feel like a sense of watching yourself.

Speaker 7 Like a lot of women will say, I feel like I'm up on the ceiling looking down at my body.

Speaker 7 You might have a hard time like feeling feeling a lot of hypervigilance.

Speaker 7 If your partner touches you, you feel yourself tense up a lot or you're always kind of on guard for when they're going to initiate. You might have low sex drive.

Speaker 7 This goes back to that enjoyment desire connection that we talked about in the earlier episodes. If your body has learned that sex is an unsafe, scary, painful, unwanted experience.

Speaker 7 Why are you going to have a wild desire for that, right? So those are just some of the many things that can come up. And there's more detail in that in that course that I mentioned.

Speaker 7 mentioned but just being able to recognize like these things make sense there's nothing wrong with me it makes sense that i have these experiences

Speaker 3 why is missionary sex missionary style called missionary style because suddenly i was reading your book and i kept reading missionary and i was like whoa why are we calling this missionary Do you know why?

Speaker 7 I actually don't know the history behind that.

Speaker 7 Yeah, where did the name come from? Did it trace back to the missionaries?

Speaker 4 And we decided to give some name to it.

Speaker 6 But yeah, no, it's still

Speaker 7 missionary sex.

Speaker 8 Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised at that because in the last episode where Glenn and you were talking about, but what is this? What is the origin of our fantasies? What is it saying about us?

Speaker 8 We are always trying to connect to the higher level of us.

Speaker 8 quote unquote, what does it mean from my brain? What does it mean from who I am?

Speaker 8 As opposed to we are wild ass animals we were born that way and unless it's beaten out of us we will remain that way but the world has civilized the shit out of us so that anytime there's anything that feels odd we're like well that's wrong and so it wouldn't surprise me at all that if it was the missionaries they went over and saw people being

Speaker 8 luscious, joyful wild animals. And they're like, well, we need to just reign this joy in a little bit exactly we'll give them one way to do it we will do

Speaker 3 we'll do to their sexuality what we're about to do to their faith and their economies and their

Speaker 4 bottom line have to look that up now look up the history

Speaker 3 you don't have to i feelings checked it

Speaker 3 lauren our producer just sent us something and it says that according to wikipedia It is said that the name missionary position arose because this sex position was supposed to have been taught by Christian missionaries as the only, quote, proper sex position.

Speaker 7 Yep, not shocked.

Speaker 4 Makes total sense.

Speaker 3 Oh my God.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 8 We should start calling

Speaker 8 the gender binary the missionary binary. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Every country should just start calling it the missionary.

Speaker 7 And of course, it's one of the positions that's the least pleasurable for women.

Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 7 Of course, that's the only property unrelated banana.

Speaker 8 I'm sure they didn't calculate that.

Speaker 8 This show is brought to you by Alma. I want to start with a truth I've learned the hard way.
Taking care of your mental health isn't a one-time decision. It's a daily practice.

Speaker 8 And even when you know you want support, the hardest part is often just figuring out where to start. For me, finding the right therapist changed everything.

Speaker 8 But getting there was kind of overwhelming. Endless searches, phone calls, dead ends.
It's wild that the thing that's supposed to help you can feel so hard to reach. And that's why I love Alma.

Speaker 8 Alma, A-L-M-A, takes all that chaos out of the process. It's a simple, easy-to-use platform where you can search for licensed, in-network therapists who actually feel like the right fit.

Speaker 8 You don't even need an account to browse, and you can filter by what matters most to you, their background, specialty, therapy style, and more.

Speaker 8 And here's the part that really matters: this isn't just about checking a box, it's about real connection. 97% of people who found a therapist through Alma say they felt seen and heard.

Speaker 8 And that's the heart of good therapy: someone who gets you, not just your symptoms. Better with people, better with Alma.
Visit helloalma.com/slash we can to schedule a free consultation today.

Speaker 8 That's hello A-L-M-A A dot com slash W E C A N.

Speaker 12 I have a question around

Speaker 9 times in our lives that are more sex-filled and less sex-filled. Like this idea of quantity and how it, I think it's pervasive in our culture and it gets really ugly, I think, in relationships.

Speaker 9 Is there a period of time during a person's life that is less

Speaker 7 sexed around

Speaker 9 than others? Because I kind of think that there's like this period at like midlife that there's like kind of this lull because there's so fucking much going on.

Speaker 9 Like your kids are still at home or they're about to go to school and your parents are kind of getting older and you're dealing with that.

Speaker 11 There's just like this.

Speaker 9 30 to 50 year old period.

Speaker 7 Oh, I thought you were going to say 30 to 50 year period.

Speaker 11 No, but like this time of life, is there a time of life that there are just like some ebbs and flows and lows?

Speaker 10 And when are they? And am I in one now?

Speaker 7 So studies have shown that one of the biggest ebbs in a couple sex life happens after kids. Just the exhaustion, the overwhelm, the sleepless nights, and even the physical discomfort of it.

Speaker 7 It can be a really difficult time.

Speaker 7 But in terms of like overall, you know, patterns, I've really found that every couple has their their own unique ebbs and flows. And it is important for us to normalize this too.

Speaker 7 Like we've talked so much in our other episodes about this belief that we all have that more is better. We just need to be having all the sex and then everything is okay.

Speaker 7 But the reality is we all have seasons of life where we're more focused on physical intimacy and we're less focused on physical intimacy. And that's okay.

Speaker 7 So we did a study. I can't remember if I mentioned this in one of our previous episodes, but we did a frequency survey.

Speaker 7 And at this, it's not a proper scientific survey, but we have had 70,000 people answer it, which is quite a lot.

Speaker 7 And we found that there weren't huge noticeable differences in how much people are having sex across different age groups, which I found quite fascinating.

Speaker 7 There was a slight decline as people got older, but we had plenty of respondents in their 70s, 80s who were still quite active.

Speaker 7 So it's not that once you hit a certain age, it's just a fast downhill slide from there. It's really more individual.

Speaker 7 It does always come back to us being able to ask ourselves in the season of life that we're in right now. Are we feeling satisfied with the amount of connection that we're having?

Speaker 7 So again, it's like, it's really easy for us to go to, we should be having more sex. I feel like our friends are having more sex.
Everybody seems to be talking about having more sex. Great.

Speaker 7 I don't care. What is it that you feel for yourself? Are you satisfied with the amount of sex that you're having?

Speaker 7 And I will also say, I challenge every couple to push yourselves to make a little bit more space for physical intimacy than you might think. So not force yourself to have sex if you don't want to.

Speaker 7 I will never in a million years say that. but create the space for that.
Because the reality is we all lead really busy lives. It's very easy for sex to fall to the bottom of the to-do list.

Speaker 7 We're tired. We've got other stuff going on.
We just don't make the space for it.

Speaker 7 And I'm sure you guys have noticed in our lives, like unless we make the space for things, life just fills up with lots of other stuff.

Speaker 7 So, challenge yourself to say, you know, maybe we're going to carve out time for date nights. And it doesn't mean that we need to have sex on those times.
Maybe we're just going to make out.

Speaker 7 Maybe we're just going to hold hands. Maybe we're just going to have an intimate conversation with each other.
But make the space for that.

Speaker 3 Vanessa, don't you have a makeout rule that just went viral?

Speaker 7 I feel like, did I?

Speaker 4 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 No, but tell us about the makeout rule because this was really helpful to millions of people.

Speaker 7 Yes, it was a TikTok that I made that I think at this point, there have been eight or nine million people that have watched it. So it really took off.
So this is a rule, a guideline.

Speaker 4 Some people got a little triggered by the rule.

Speaker 7 It's a guideline, a fun thing that Xander and I decided to start doing because I realized that we had really stopped making out.

Speaker 7 And I think a lot of couples in long-term relationships stop making out. And for Xandra and I, it was one of the most fun things about our relationship in in the early stages.

Speaker 7 We would make out like all the time. And it was so fun.
And we would enjoy making out just for the sake of making out. You define making out,

Speaker 3 define making out.

Speaker 7 Tongue contact. Tongue contact.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 4 Some tongue contact. Yeah.

Speaker 7 And not everybody loves tongue contact. So if you like pecs, if you just like interlocking each other's lips, that can count as well.

Speaker 7 So we don't have to, it doesn't have to be a strict definition of it. But we decided to start making out and we made this little guideline that like, we're just going to make out every night bed

Speaker 7 and we've done that now for years and it's been really really fun to just have the space to carve out this little routine and to have it be a daily thing for me if I'm doing something daily it's so much easier for me to build a routine out of it than every once in a while did you just say every night for years you've been doing this yeah for years you've been doing this okay so most nights it's 10 to 30 seconds.

Speaker 7 If we're really tired, it's like a little bit of tongue contact.

Speaker 4 Okay, we're done.

Speaker 7 We have fun with it. But, you know, so some nights it might be a little bit longer, but on average, it's like 10 to 30 seconds.

Speaker 7 And one other thing that I think is really important about this is a lot of couples in long-term relationships, you start only making out as an initiation

Speaker 7 during sex. And we make this connection that, oh, if my partner's making out with me, that means they want sex.
And so we shut ourselves down. Like, no, no, no, don't, don't come in for me.

Speaker 7 Don't touch me. Don't kiss me.
I don't want it to like lead to more. And so I wanted to break that connection.

Speaker 7 I think that can be really powerful for so many couples, like break the connection that any sort of touch or any sort of kissing is supposed to lead to sex.

Speaker 7 Cause a lot of couples in long-term relationships say like, yeah, we just, we don't kiss, we don't touch.

Speaker 7 We only have physical contact when we're right about to have sex or in the middle of having sex. And we all miss it so much.

Speaker 7 So this is just a nice way to like bring some of that back into our relationship. And now it just feels like this sweet, special thing that we do every night.
And it feels really intimate and bonding.

Speaker 7 And the vast majority of times, it does not lead to sex. We just get to enjoy the makeout for the make out's sake.

Speaker 3 What if you're in an argument? Do we never go to bed mad at the Marin house?

Speaker 7 Or

Speaker 7 we didn't? No, we go to bed mad and we're so pissed, but we're definitely making out.

Speaker 4 Definitely making out even though.

Speaker 7 That's what people, some people took the rule part of it a little bit too strongly. I'm like, no, if I'm pissed at him, I'm not making out with him.

Speaker 4 If he's sick or I'm sick, I'm get out of here.

Speaker 11 We're just using like our logic here.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 7 So I'm not a believer in don't go to bed angry. There are lots of times where I need to go to bed angry.

Speaker 7 And if I've had some time and some space and a good night of sleep, I can come back to an argument and be in such a better place.

Speaker 7 We can resolve it so much faster versus, I mean, I've had, we've definitely had plenty of experiences where we were trying to solve something at night and it's like hours will go by and you're exhausted and crankier and just wanting to go to sleep.

Speaker 7 So I think that's some of the worst advice about a conflict.

Speaker 8 I wouldn't have slept in years if I didn't go to bed angry.

Speaker 6 Can you imagine?

Speaker 8 Last time I went to bed was three and a half years ago.

Speaker 3 I have a question.

Speaker 8 Since one unrepresented population on this podcast is heterosexual men.

Speaker 8 Other than what you've told us in prior episodes about men really do,

Speaker 8 in the majority, want to

Speaker 8 please their partners and want their partners to be having a really great experience. What is another thing

Speaker 8 that you hear very frequently from heterosexual men about

Speaker 8 what

Speaker 8 their fear is or what their

Speaker 8 unspoken

Speaker 8 truth is that we don't know

Speaker 8 about them.

Speaker 7 Oh, there are so many. I mean, a big one that comes to mind is this idea that men always want sex and they always should want it more.

Speaker 7 We've polled our Instagram audience, and in male-female relationships, in 45%, the woman was the one who wants sex more. But it's another thing that doesn't get talked about.

Speaker 7 And so there are a lot of men who feel very ashamed about not wanting sex more often than they do, or having a female partner who wants sex more often than they do, even though it's incredibly normal and common.

Speaker 8 And may I add that women in those relationships feel very ashamed too.

Speaker 11 Deeply ashamed.

Speaker 8 I had a relationship like that where I was the rejected party and no women talk about that. And it's really, really hard place to be.

Speaker 8 You feel broken and then doubly broken because literally no one admits to this. You know, absolutely.

Speaker 4 Okay. So that is a really good one.

Speaker 7 That's, yeah, that's one. Another good one is that men want want to experience emotional connection during sex too.

Speaker 7 I mean, we talked about this a little bit in our third episode about, you know, men don't want to just.

Speaker 7 you know, let you have sex with them. Like they want to have an emotional, connected, intimate experience.
Again, it's like this idea of like, oh, men will just take whatever they can get.

Speaker 7 They just want the orgasm. They're just horny.
But men want to feel close and vulnerable and intimate as well.

Speaker 7 And a lot of men tell me like it feels tiring to have my partner treat me like all I want is just this physical release when I'm trying to feel this closeness with them.

Speaker 5 One thing I love about our listeners is how industrious all of you are. The stories we hear about you guys going off on your own and starting your own ventures like we did, it's truly inspiring.

Speaker 5 It's a big part of why NetSuite came to us as a sponsor. NetSuite offers real-time data and insights for so many business owners, and by that I mean over 42,000 businesses.

Speaker 5 NetSuite offers the number one AI-powered cloud ERP. Think of it as a central nervous system for your business.

Speaker 5 Instead of juggling separate tools for accounting here, HR there, inventory somewhere else, NetSuite pulls everything into one seamless platform.

Speaker 5 That means you finally have one source of truth, real visibility, real control, and the power to make smarter decisions faster.

Speaker 5 With real-time data and forecasting, you're not just reacting to what already happened. You're planning for what's next.

Speaker 5 And whether your company is bringing in a few million or hundreds of millions, NetSuite scales with you.

Speaker 5 It helps you tackle today's challenges and chase down tomorrow's opportunities without missing a beat.

Speaker 5 Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash hardthings. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things.

Speaker 5 netsuite.com slash hard things.

Speaker 9 What are some things that we can do in our everyday life to increase or

Speaker 9 get us into good sex

Speaker 7 bodies?

Speaker 9 Are there foods we can eat that will make us more excited?

Speaker 3 Do oysters work? Yeah.

Speaker 9 Does exercise increase libido? What are things that can help us increase our sex drives?

Speaker 7 So the most important things that will increase your sex drive are the trickier things, the making sure you're having enjoyable sex, making sure you're feeling emotionally connected to your partner.

Speaker 7 And the top three one is also making sure you're not in pain. There's so many women in particular who experience pain.
So those are the three biggies.

Speaker 7 Of course, people are always more curious about the things that are a little more straightforward. Like, can I just eat the oysters?

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 8 Is there a vanessa supplement

Speaker 4 is what i'm looking for

Speaker 7 no so maybe you might get the little teeniest tiniest uh hit of desire from an aphrodisiac but it's really going to be more the placebo effect you thinking like oh yeah i'm just going to get this oyster and get turned on and in the mood foods supplements those things just

Speaker 7 I mean, if you want to eat oysters, go for it, but it's not going to have this huge effect on your sex drive.

Speaker 7 In general, though, like treating your body with care and respect is going to increase your sex drive.

Speaker 7 So if that means there are certain foods that make you feel more connected to yourself or a certain way of eating that feels good for you, then that's going to be great.

Speaker 7 If there's a certain way of moving your body that makes you feel connected to yourself, makes you feel sexy, it feels good to move that way, that's amazing.

Speaker 7 And I always want to say like the idea of, you know, exercising or needing your body to look a certain way in order to have great sex or to have a high sex drive is just not accurate.

Speaker 7 Like people of any body shapes and sizes can experience pleasure and deserve to experience pleasure.

Speaker 3 And it's so interesting that concept because

Speaker 3 what diet culture and porn culture has taught us that, oh, no, no, there's like a body we can build that. from the outside that will make us sexier.

Speaker 3 I'm doing a lot of work right now on embodiment because of my eating disorder recovery.

Speaker 3 And I don't know how exactly to say this other than I'm working more on my sex life when I am in a conversation and I'm saying

Speaker 3 like a conversation with somebody I barely know. And I'm saying,

Speaker 3 oh, hold on a second. What you just said feels weird to me.

Speaker 3 Hold on a second. I'm feeling

Speaker 3 uncomfortable right now.

Speaker 3 Speaking something from the inside to the outside to a stranger is me working on my sex life. Like it's becoming embodied enough to speak my insides on the outside or to be aligned that way.

Speaker 3 That is what helps in the bedroom a million times more than a lifetime spent trying to shape my body. into something that looks like it could be in a movie.

Speaker 3 It's the inner work. What is your take on

Speaker 3 porn and erotica? Because I feel like erotica for women is an untapped

Speaker 3 thing. Women should be

Speaker 3 reading erotica more. I don't even know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 Does it feel like that is something that

Speaker 3 should be trending?

Speaker 4 I have to say that.

Speaker 6 put it on TikTok, Vanessa.

Speaker 8 If Vanessa puts it on TikTok, it will trend.

Speaker 7 We'll have Abby narrate it.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 6 Oh, my God.

Speaker 7 I did get a lot of DMs from people that I think would be interested in that. I'm just saying, no business idea.

Speaker 7 But I want to go back to what you were saying about, you know, body and diet culture. I do think sex is also a way for us to

Speaker 7 overcome diet culture and all this crap that we've been taught to believe about our bodies.

Speaker 7 Like when we can reclaim the pleasure that we can experience, and the great thing about pleasure is it doesn't matter what your body looks like.

Speaker 7 You are capable of experiencing the same amount of pleasure with your body exactly how it looks right now. Your weight.
has no bearing on the amount of pleasure that you're capable of feeling.

Speaker 7 So being able to claim like, this is my body, it's deserving of pleasure and exploring like, what are all the ways that I can feel pleasure in this body that can help move us beyond these ideas of my body needs to look exactly like this.

Speaker 7 Okay, when it comes to erotica, I like to think of this as it's just a different kind of stimulation.

Speaker 7 So erotica, if you're reading something, if you're listening to something, if you're watching something, it's just a different way of getting stimulation.

Speaker 7 And a lot of women will tell me in particular with erotica, there's something about like written erotica, like reading that feels like it opens up space in their brain.

Speaker 7 So, one of the biggest concerns that women have is: I can't be present in the moment. I'm thinking about my to-do list.
I'm thinking about all this other stuff I have to do.

Speaker 7 Like, I can't shut my brain off and just be present with my partner.

Speaker 7 So, erotica can be a nice transition time where we are reading something, it's giving our brain something to do, but it's a sexy thing to do.

Speaker 7 So, we're getting that stimulation and we're helping our brain kind of like wind down and get more into the moment.

Speaker 7 So, it's not this abrupt, like, I'm running around all day, constantly thinking of all the things.

Speaker 7 And then I'm supposed to get into sex and all of a sudden shut my brain off and not think about any of the things. It's like this nice little wind down moment.

Speaker 3 It's more all-encompassing than like to some people, to me. Like that's why I like listening, Abby loves listening to a book and lots of people do.

Speaker 3 For me, I like reading because it's, it's all my senses. It's like.
I can listen to something. I'm still doing a million other things.
But like when I'm reading, I have to be right there

Speaker 3 and that is like the presence that sex requires so it makes sense that that would be write a book a bridge write an erotic book i want to write a sexy romance lesbian novel why don't you

Speaker 4 i think that's a great idea okay i'll read it you can read the audiobook can you imagine me trying to read it

Speaker 7 And erotica can also give you ideas too. You can read with your partner, like, let me read you this scene.
Or, ooh, I really like what they did here.

Speaker 7 it was very interesting or oh i've never thought about doing this before what do you think of this scene right here so it gives you some inspiration too do you have any good recommendations on erotica books so i have just finished reading the a court of thorn and roses series i was having so many people ask me for my professional uh opinion on it it got super popular it was really big on book talk um so i finished reading that series and i definitely found it to be really interesting it was it's kind of like very, a lot of fantasy, almost a much more simplified version of Game of Thrones thing, but like some, you know, just more sexy elements mixed in.

Speaker 7 So I thought that was interesting. And a lot of people have told me they really enjoyed it.
So it could be worth reading.

Speaker 3 In closing, what would you say is the question that people ask you the most as a very trusted voice in this world

Speaker 3 that when you answer it can do the most good for them in in their lives. Like, what's the question that you can free people the most quickly by answering?

Speaker 7 I love that question. It's really the simplest one.
Am I normal?

Speaker 7 So many of us just feel so alone in whatever it is that we're going through. And even the most simple things, like, am I alone in wishing sex is a little bit slower?

Speaker 7 Am I alone in being turned on by my partner kissing all over my neck? That question is just, it's one that gives us so much shame, so much anxiety. This fear, you know, comes up so strongly for us.

Speaker 7 So just being able to share with people, like whatever it is that you're going through, I promise you, you're not alone.

Speaker 7 And even if it's something that you don't love or you wish was different about your sex life, like there are ways to address it, to talk about it, to transform it.

Speaker 7 I think just starting with that, that, that basic reality of like, you're not alone and it's okay.

Speaker 11 Beautiful.

Speaker 3 Beautiful. Vanessa Marin, thank you so much.
We adore you. Everybody go pick up sex talks.
You won't regret it. And Pod Squad, you are normal and we love you.

Speaker 4 That means you are too, honey. Well,

Speaker 3 we'll see.

Speaker 6 You are.

Speaker 8 Just don't be out here letting the Christian missionaries dictate what you do in your bedroom. All right.
Don't let them win.

Speaker 3 That was never about God and it was never about sex.

Speaker 7 Okay, catch you next time.

Speaker 4 Bye, Pod Spod.

Speaker 3 If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do each or all of these three things.

Speaker 3 First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode.

Speaker 3 To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow.

Speaker 3 This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five-star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

Speaker 3 We appreciate you very much.

Speaker 3 We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios. I give you Tish Milton and Brandy Carlisle.

Speaker 2 I walked through fire, I came out the other side.

Speaker 2 I chased desire,

Speaker 2 I made sure I got what's mine,

Speaker 2 And I continue to believe

Speaker 2 That I'm the one for me

Speaker 2 And because I'm mine,

Speaker 2 I walk the line

Speaker 2 Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map A final destination

Speaker 2 lack?

Speaker 2 We've stopped asking directions

Speaker 2 to places they've never been.

Speaker 2 And to be loved, we need to be known.

Speaker 2 We'll finally find our way back home.

Speaker 2 And through the joy and pain

Speaker 2 that our lives

Speaker 2 bring,

Speaker 2 we can do a hard thing.

Speaker 2 I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

Speaker 2 I'm not the

Speaker 2 problem,

Speaker 2 sometimes things fall apart.

Speaker 2 And I continue to believe

Speaker 2 the best

Speaker 2 people are free.

Speaker 2 And it took some time,

Speaker 2 but I'm finally fine.

Speaker 2 Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

Speaker 2 A final destination

Speaker 2 we lack.

Speaker 2 We stopped asking directions

Speaker 2 to places they've never been.

Speaker 2 And to be loved, we need to be known.

Speaker 2 We'll finally find our way back home.

Speaker 2 And through the joy and pain

Speaker 2 that our lives

Speaker 2 bring,

Speaker 2 we can do a heart pain.

Speaker 2 We're adventures

Speaker 2 and heartbreaks on that.

Speaker 2 We might get lost, but we're okay with that. We've stopped asking directions

Speaker 2 in some places

Speaker 2 they've never been.

Speaker 2 And to be loved, we need to be known.

Speaker 2 We'll finally find our way back home.

Speaker 2 And through the joy and pain

Speaker 2 that our lives

Speaker 2 bring,

Speaker 2 we can do hard

Speaker 2 things

Speaker 2 Yeah, we can do hard things

Speaker 2 Yeah, we

Speaker 2 can do

Speaker 2 hard

Speaker 2 things