140. Alex Morgan: Believe in Your Own Greatness

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So we spoke to Alex Morgan prior to the publication of the 319-page report of independent investigation to the U.S.

Soccer Federation concerning allegations of abusive behavior and sexual misconduct in women's professional soccer.

So we don't talk about that in this conversation, and I wanted you to know that.

But with each page of that report, I felt ill, enraged, heartbroken, and resolute.

So I want to start this episode by saying unequivocally that the only acceptable response to the investigation is radical change and unflinching accountability.

Once and for all, we demand.

that the lives of all players, from youth footballers to professionals, are finally and systematically protected over the careers of predators.

During this very hard time in the women's soccer community, I'm grateful to share this very special conversation with one of my favorite footballers, Alex Morgan, a woman who I know is making the sport better for future generations

every single day.

I chased desire, I made sure

I got what's mine.

Welcome.

Welcome back, everybody.

You're so good at that.

It's so weird to do it.

You're always the one.

Do it.

Okay, welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things.

We have Alex Morgan.

You all know this because it's who you clicked on to listen to this podcast.

But Alex is one of my favorite athletes for a lot of reasons.

But I think number one is that she was a really young new kid on the block when I was an old veteran on the national team.

Alex Morgan, you are a two-time FIFA Women's World Cup champion, Olympic gold medalist, the UEFA Women's Champion Leagues champion, and NWSL champion.

Is there anything that you have not championed?

She is the leading founder of Together with the X that replaces the last E, a lifestyle and media company with a focus on youth and equality storytelling.

As a mom to Charlie, oh your child, Alex is tackling motherhood while continuing to be a force on the pitch.

In fact, I'm not sure I've even seen Alex as on fire as she is right now scoring so many goals in the NBSL for her team, the San Diego Wave.

Alex, freaking thank you for being here.

Thanks for that intro.

That was really nice, Abby.

And I am so happy to be here.

Glennon, it's always a pleasure to see you and talk to you.

But Abby, I mean, everyone knows how much you mean to me and

just the effect you've had on my career so it's so nice to talk to you because um i have obviously looked up to you for so long oh well that feels very good especially as you get age in your retirement it's like was i important to anybody did did any of it really matter oh my gosh so that feels good that does feel good can you both explain what the hell you were doing together on the field?

Because I just learned Abby was explaining it to me recently in technological the soccer terms.

And I I thought it was so beautiful what it's called, what you were together, which you were a two-front,

which feels like such a beautiful thing.

Can you describe

what is a two-front?

What were you doing?

Alex, you want to take this?

What is a two-front?

We were basically just dancing together on the soccer field and enjoying each other's company and just helping each other be as successful as we possibly can be together and uplifting each other.

So that's pretty much what it was in non-soccer terms.

Okay.

Oh my God.

Okay.

Okay.

So you said you had strengths that Alex didn't have and Alex had strengths that you didn't have.

And so together you were able to work together and score the goals and create a really hard to defend against two front.

So technically what a two-front is the formation of your team.

Sometimes you do a four-four two.

Nowadays you're seeing a lot of four, three, threes, which would be a three-front.

Okay, well, I'm dead inside already.

So let's go back to the so

so would you like me to explain yes yeah

we were the two forwards so we were working in tandem and i felt like we were just complimenting each other yeah when like abby's good in the air um and so i was like i'm not going to touch any ball that goes in the air abby's going to do that and i'm going to work off of her and so we would talk a lot together and i'd be like head it to the right head it to the left like head it behind you like settle the ball or whatever it is and she would basically just do that and she would do all the hard work and then i would just run in behind the back line and try to score the goals and then we would both just get lots and lots of goals abby a lot more than myself but well i played a little bit longer than you at that point you're getting up there though how many goals do you have i'm not sure but as a mom i think that i'm getting upwards of like six or seven and i think um

13 is the is the number to beat as a mom.

Oh, cool.

Whoa.

I love that.

I can't wait to talk about momming momming and little Charlie with whom we are all completely obsessed.

Yes.

But before we get into that, so I want to talk to the pad squad about your friendship.

Alex, Abby loves you so much.

Every time we watch a game, she just yell that you're in.

Okay.

You do have to be in the game for this to happen, but she just yells.

Alex, Alex, Alex.

And she's trying to get, I think, whoever is on the field to kick it to Alex.

Energetically.

You're energetically trying to get the ball to Alex.

When you have a penalty shot, the whole family has to stand up.

She thinks it's disrespectful if anyone sits on the couch.

So we all have to stand until you've scored the ball.

Can you?

Scored the ball.

Scored the ball.

Scored the goal.

Can you talk about how your friendship happened?

And do you remember the first time that you met and what that was like?

So when I met Abby, it was like my first camp and with the national team.

So I got called in and I didn't know anyone.

I was also like 19 years old and just starstruck and also super intimidated by everyone, especially Abby.

And she was actually like the nicest person.

She was so welcoming.

And she was someone that I felt like I could gain confidence from her, from her leadership, her demeanor,

everything she kind of brought on and off the field.

It kind of helped me just gain confidence on the team.

Then she started just like saying these things like, you're going to score more goals than I'll ever score.

You're going to have way more success than I ever will.

You're the next one that everyone's going to look for to score the goals, to be the person to bring everyone a World Cup or an Olympic gold medal.

And she just always would like uplift.

me and give me so much confidence.

And in that way, it was just so amazing to have someone so selfless because when you're playing a team sport, of course, course, like you want the team first, you have to think about what the team needs over individual needs.

But every person has selfish feelings like deep down inside.

And personally, we all want ourselves to be as successful as possible.

We all want to score goals.

We all want to have the glory.

So for her to be so selfless in a way that I had never experienced before as a teammate, I was just floored by that.

And it just

kind of drew me towards her as a great friend and mentor.

What about you when you met Alex?

How did that all happen?

Early 2010, it was around the time that you got called in.

I remember one of the first practices.

Pia came up to me and she said, this kid, Alex Morgan, She's just raw.

You know, she's got to like learn a lot.

Don't Don't coach her.

Just don't say much to her.

She told me that.

She like pulled me aside.

And I was like, what the fuck?

Why?

Like,

I don't know.

I think that she thought maybe that I was going to intimidate her or put too much pressure on her at such a young age.

And I couldn't have disagreed more.

And I just didn't listen to Pia.

Cause when you're 19 and you come on.

a team that's already like kind of set up going into the World Cup 2011, it's hard to break into that team, let alone gain the respect of like some of those older players.

And so I was noticing a lot of the older players getting a little bit more frustrated with Alex than they should have been.

Were they frustrated or were they like threatened?

Threatened.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Frustrated on the bottom.

Threatening me is definitely a better word.

And so, of course, like when you feel threatened, you find any little problem.

Yeah.

Right.

This one specific play.

It was Alex's first camp.

She was able to get end line, which was like at no angle to the goal.

And she just rips this shot with her left foot.

I had never seen somebody be able to score at such a horrible angle.

It's like a very rare shot.

And she scored it because she had this power and this speed.

And so from then on, I just kept trying to tell her, like when some of the players would be like, pass.

I just kept whispering to Alex, like, shoot.

Don't pass it.

Don't pass.

Be selfish, you know, and I could see something in her that was very different than any other new kid that ever came on the team.

It was like she was able to hold an immense amount of pressure and also perform, which is rare.

So then she steps on the field in 2010 against Italy.

I think you get on the field like in the 88th minute or something, and she scores a goal in extra time for us to give us a 1-0 lead.

against Italy.

And then we had to come play them in the home match to qualify to actually get into the World Cup.

I know this is a lot of information, but I just remember Alex being more confident than I was at 19, more capable.

Have you always felt that confidence?

Like, what was it like?

Our kid is right now going to a new brand new school, and she's the only new person.

So, all I'm thinking right now is: what was it like for you to be a new young star on this team of stars.

It was just me, like, fighting day to day, not to be a star, but to like be included and for myself to feel validation that like I belonged, because there was a lot of days that I would show up and I was like, they are so much better than me.

I'm literally like faking it till I make it at this point.

Like, I didn't feel like I belonged for the longest time.

So it wasn't like trying to take anyone's spot.

It It was just like trying to help myself feel like I deserved to be there when I surely didn't in the beginning.

Did you have a moment where you finally were like, okay, oh, yeah, I belong here.

This is good.

I think in 2011, we had myself and Kelly as the newer players.

And

as we went through the tournament, I kind of grew into it as well.

And I remember,

I think it was a third game we played against Sweden.

We actually lost in the group stage and I didn't play and it was my birthday.

And I was like, so disappointed.

And I was like, how could she do that to me?

It's my birthday and I deserve to play in this and that.

And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You don't deserve like anything right now.

You're still the youngest player.

You're still just trying to

make a name for yourself and you're trying to contribute as much as you can.

So it was kind of like, okay, you need to like be in your place a little bit.

so i felt like through that tournament that was a defining moment for me to at least have the confidence to be like i deserve to be on that field and i wasn't and like how dare the coach not play me it might not have been the right way to think about it but then it kind of gave me that confidence that well next game i got to prove why she needs to play me and the next game after that so i think that's when i definitely felt like i belonged i love that it's like the moment you go from like i'm just so lucky to be here i'll just be quiet and hope no one notices me to why the hell aren't they putting me in Yeah.

It's like an internal voice that taught, that told you, oh, I'm not going to be.

You want me to tell you when I knew Alex belonged?

Yes.

I think that

I realized

I had

yet to feel this since Mia,

but that feeling where my life was a little bit easier on the field.

And it was because Alex took up a lot of attention of a defensive back line.

So during that World Cup in 2011, you scored some big goals, one

the most amazing goal ever.

Like, I just will never forget it in the 2011 World Cup final.

I thought that this new kid on the block was just going to score the game-winning goal.

We ended up losing that game in penalty kicks, which is like super sad.

But I knew that the way that she stepped up through the knockout round stages of that tournament made me be like, oh yeah, like here this kid is.

So how, how, then how did you not feel?

Because I understand the feeling threatened by a new person.

Like, if we had suddenly had a new host on this podcast and they were amazing,

I just can't imagine being like, you're going to be better than me.

You're going to be way better than me.

Like, I feel like that's what I'm saying.

Like, isn't that crazy that Abby was like that?

In no way was her job threatened ever throughout her entire career, but you're still fighting for a spot on the field.

So for her to feel so confident in herself and her abilities.

And I don't know why she did that to me.

Like why, why were you so nice?

What if we played like a one front instead?

You know what I mean?

And not to say I would have ever taken your job, but yeah, like you're saying, Glenn, how was she so selfless and so uplifting of me and other people?

Because being threatened is kind of something that you like, you can't help it.

Just deep inside of you, you know, you care about yourself more than people a lot of times.

No,

that's 100% true.

Yes.

I think that when I think back at that time, I knew what I needed when I was your age to feel confident and to feel like,

oh, I belong here.

And I needed people to tell me that.

Did you have that?

Did somebody do that for you?

Mia did.

Yeah, for sure.

Interesting.

So, Alex, do you find yourself trying to do that with younger players?

Who is your Alex Morgan?

Mia was my mentor.

Not that I am going to claim myself as yours, but who is, who are you looking after?

Who's looking up to you as a mentor?

It's interesting because I think Mia is around 10 years older than you.

Is that right?

Yeah, eight.

And okay, and you're around 10 years older than me.

And Mal Pugh is around 10 years younger than me.

And she came on this team super young, had a lot to learn, but again, like raw talent.

And she's someone that

I know is just going to have an incredible career, already has on the national team.

So it's kind of interesting the like just the levels of the next generation kind of carrying the torch almost and carrying the team.

And I feel like she's one player that is has already made a huge impact, but will have a huge career on the national team.

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I wonder if Mia would agree with this, but a reason why I was able to give you so much confidence is because I had already developed so much of my own that it was like I was one of the best.

I was scoring a lot of goals and I just like needed other people to feel what that felt like.

And I knew that that feeling could kind of give somebody a lift in their own life.

And I also knew that it would make us a better team, score more goals, win more championships.

Like it's self-serving.

But you're saying that you had to have a level of security

yourself and your own talent

to give it away.

Yes.

Yeah.

Which is why acting threatened is always a sign of insecurity.

That's right.

Right.

That's right.

So, do you guys have like a best moment together or any just like moment that stands out, Alex?

The one moment that I remember is

in 2011, we were crushed by losing in the World Cup final.

It was crushing.

We deserved to win.

And it was honestly the most disappointing, saddest moment of my life up to that point.

And then in 2012, we come back and we win

the Olympic gold medal in London.

And I think you were number 12 because you had to change for the Olympics.

So we stand up on the podium in number.

Oh, I was next to her.

And she was next to me because Abby's 12 and I'm 13.

And just kind of holding hands all together, standing up on the podium.

I just couldn't believe that we had gold medals around our neck after like such a disappointing year the year before.

And I think that was just a moment of like, just like big sister, little sister, kind of like we did it together.

Like you did it for me.

I did it for you.

Yeah.

I'm like actually tearing up.

I knew you were going to cry,

by the way.

And I just remember that moment being so much more special because Alex scored in the final in the 2011 World Cup final against Japan that we lost.

I scored an extra time on Alex's cross.

Like, it was a, it was a huge cross is a pass,

a long one that goes all the way across the field.

It's a huge devastation.

So, for us to come back and win the following year and win gold in London was such a big deal.

My favorite moment, actually.

Obviously, winning gold is great, but my favorite moment, a real reason why I think we were able to get into the finals was Alex scored the latest goal in the, I think probably still to this day, in the history of Olympic soccer.

She scored against Canada.

It was like the craziest game.

She scored with her head.

And I think I remember I ran up to you and I like, I was screaming and I was like, I am in love with you right now.

Oh, yeah.

I remember that.

That was a good time.

We wanted to talk about, and I want you to

ask this however you want to ask this, but we were talking about the other night about how you and Alex have never talked about the end of your career and how you were struggling so hard.

Yeah.

And whether Alex

noticed that or how that was for her, watching you kind of crumble for a little while.

So

I've been 100% like open and honest about what was happening at the last couple of years of my career with my addictions and alcohol issues.

And, you know, all of you were there to kind of see it up close and personal.

And I guess I wonder,

A,

how did that feel for you to see this person who had offered you so much confidence and

mentored you and helped you along the way see me in such a horrible, sad place?

I never like judged you because

I knew that what like good of a person that you were, that you are.

so it made me sad because

that just hurt me because i i just wanted you to be happy and in the world cup in 2015 in canada um

you weren't people only dream of playing in something as big as that one time in their life it doesn't matter what sport you play or what job you have but just getting to the top of your job or career in this four-week period.

And it should have been like the best moments of your life, of our career.

And I think like it was maybe one of your worst because you were struggling so much.

It was just really hard to watch that because it didn't matter like what I said or what anyone said.

You had to go through it.

It was just really sad to watch, but I felt like all I could do was just be a good friend.

And I thought I was at that point.

I'm just so happy that you kind of had to hit rock bottom

and in a way that you were able to recover and find Glennon and find yourself

and just get back on the track that like Abby is because you're just an amazing person and you shed so much like great light on this world.

And

in that time, like you weren't able to necessarily do that.

So it was just incredible.

the like comeback that you made.

But at that time, it was, it was hard to watch.

Yeah.

In the sports world, do you have like what do you do when a teammate is struggling like with mental health stuff?

Is there

resources?

I'm sure there's more now.

What do you do?

Is it like a team meeting?

No, it's tough because

you need to focus on yourself, especially in a big tournament.

But then you also want to make sure that your teammates are,

you know, are.

feeling focused and ready for the games.

We do have sports psychologists and we have resources, but it's tough.

And we actually saw that.

We saw a lot of us, myself included, and some of my teammates struggling with mental health during the 2021 Olympics in Japan because we couldn't even leave our room or hotel.

And we weren't struggling in the way that, you know, Abby might have been, but

it was really hard on.

a lot of us and none of us really knew how to approach that.

And we had our own rooms and we had to kind of stay to those rooms and make sure that we were abiding by protocol.

And because of that, we just were so isolated.

It just really was not, not good at all for mental health.

I kind of just put that behind me because I got home and I just felt so good to be back with Charlie, who was barely a year old.

I couldn't bring her, but everyone individually struggled.

in that month in Japan.

Everyone deals with it differently, but it's not like a team like huddle, like let's rally around Abby and help her feel better.

It's tough because sports are isolating sometimes wow

what do you do for your mental health what kinds of things make you feel grounded and better i think that as i've gotten older i've just gotten better having a more balanced life in general so i think that that really helps my mental health like if soccer were to be taken away from me tomorrow i would be okay with it I think a lot of people wouldn't be if their job was taken away from them.

Even though I've worked on it my whole life and that's like the one thing that I know and love so well, I would be okay with it because I have so many other parts of my life that are so great as well.

And that like bring me so much joy.

So I think for me, it's just having a balanced life and that includes family.

Family is.

everything to me.

Even Abby knows my dad has probably been to every single soccer game, Japan, China,

Australia,

Canada, it doesn't matter.

Brazil, it doesn't matter where we go.

My dad is like our number one fan.

He literally is everywhere.

Italy, when I scored that goal that Abby was talking about, I really, really care for my family and cherish those relationships.

And I think that helps me be like pretty even keel and like help my.

mental health kind of stay a little more level.

That's amazing.

I have to ask, because I have had a complicated relationship with the game, with the love of soccer.

It offered me a lot.

It gave me a job, identity, all of these things, but I didn't really like love it.

The game.

The game, like all the way through.

And then, I don't know, you get good at something, so you do it.

I have to know: do you love playing soccer?

Is it something that you could say you love?

I love it more when I'm scoring more goals.

True.

But, but in general, do I love it?

I think I do.

Sometimes I don't.

And I, but I'm okay with that.

Like sometimes I just wake up and I don't want to play like today, but it's never that I don't want to play for the rest of my career.

And I think that's okay.

And I think I'm at a point now if I don't want to play like for another year or two or three years, like I'm okay leaving soccer.

And I'm not at that point right now.

But

I think a lot of athletes struggle with leaving their sport.

And

I do love soccer, but I would be okay leaving it.

And Abby, I knew that about you because I had read your book and we've talked a lot in the past, but it is interesting because you're told time and time again that you have to love it or you do love it.

It's forced on you.

Like, well, you, you know, your number one thing is to find joy and to love the sport.

And it's like, well, yeah, but then eventually you're getting paid to do it.

It's what your job is.

It's what you know.

So like, do I love it anymore?

Or am I just doing it because it's put in front of me and I'm, and I'm great.

I'm not good at it.

I'm great at it, you know?

So do I just keep doing it because of that?

I think overall, I do love it, but not always.

Yeah.

There's like good parts and parts that you would rather do without, but that you got to take it all.

It's like all part of the package.

It is.

It's part of the package, but it's exhausting, especially with the national team.

It's exhausting.

You can't just like bring 50% of yourself like one day.

You can't have a bad day.

And that is just so exhausting.

It just tears you down, you know, like every single day, mentally, physically.

It's hard to like be on your game every day.

It's impossible.

You're setting yourself up for failure.

Yep.

Every day.

Yes.

Every single day.

What I will tell you is that it does get better in retirement because you do get to show up at a workout and go, I am here.

That's all I needed to do.

I got here.

I don't have to perform.

My heart rate doesn't have to hit a certain, you know, fourth or fifth percentile zone.

I've seen, I can't even remember the terms.

That's great.

That's good.

So I love that.

The future is bright.

I just feel like a bunch of fairies just got their wings.

Like my insides are lit up to hear Alex say, I'm not good at this.

I'm great at this.

Yeah.

Like I am going to say that to myself in the mirror in the morning.

That is so.

amazing to hear a woman say that.

Oh my God.

Okay.

When you talk about relationships and friendships and team, one thing I don't understand.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry because I talk to Addie about this all the time.

I just love, like, I love the innocence of it.

It's beautiful, really.

How do you

have friends

who you are constantly trying to beat at things?

A lot of you.

Competing.

You love each other so much.

Like a lot of you love each other so much.

And you are also trying to kick each other's asses constantly.

Right.

How does this work?

Because, you know, the thing about women is like, oh, let's all, there's no scarcity.

Like, well, there's enough for all of us.

Let's all, but actually, that's horseshit sometimes.

Yeah.

No, there's not, there's two front.

There's not an eight front.

So, like,

how do you maintain friendships with people that you're constantly competing with?

That's a good question.

Honestly, sometimes it's hard, especially when you play the same position as somebody.

But again, for me, it's exhausting to think about someone else more often than myself.

And like,

you know, and like Abby said, like at the point she got to where she felt like really confident

in herself and her position on the team.

I'm at that place.

And I feel like for many years, I did just compare myself to others.

And I did just want to find the flaws flaws that someone else had rather than the reason that like i am great at what i do and it's just it's just tiring

you get over it i think i'm at a new point in my career where i'm if someone's better than me then they'll have to prove it and i'll have you know we're on trial every single day and what just because they're better than me means that I hate them.

No, like there might be inside sometimes if they miss miss a shot, and I'll be like,

Welp sucks.

But,

but at the end of the day, like, I just have to work on myself.

Yes.

It's so tiring to focus on others more than yourself, especially when there's the choice is out of your control.

Like, the coach is deciding these things.

It's so out of your control.

Yeah.

Crazy making.

Honestly.

So, then to pick apart someone's personality, their play on the field, their friendships and relationships they have off the field.

It's

tiring.

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So before we get into the conversation talking about Charlie and Servando and your family, we have to talk about the equal pay settlement that has recently happened.

And for those listening who may not know, the women's national team reached settlement with U.S.

Soccer Federation for $24 million.

What is the agreement?

So we settled with U.S.

Soccer

in court for a settlement of $24 million plus equal pay and equal treatment moving forward.

The $24 million is a compromise for the past money that they have failed to pay us equally to the men.

It was much greater than that.

If you take into account World Cup pay, I think it was around 60 million, I want to say.

We compromised and settled on 24.

Okay.

What worked?

Nobody in power is ever like, all right, let's just do the right thing.

That just has never, ever happened.

What did you all do differently this time that made

them say, all right, fine?

We've always had a player association, but it's never quite operated anything more than than getting a new CBA collective bargaining agreement with U.S.

Soccer for a little better pay, a little better treatment.

So that's what our Players Association has always operated by.

We started.

We hired an executive director to basically manage our player association.

We now have a bunch of different sectors of our player association and a bunch of different committees that a lot of players are on on each committee.

I'm part of the CBA committee and also on the legal committee.

So we hired lawyers.

We have our executive director.

We have a publicist and Molly Levinson who absolutely crushed the game and made U.S.

soccer look pretty terrible in the news.

And anything that they wanted to say in terms of not wanting PS Equal kind of were dragged along.

I think like that was a big thing, but it was just a long fight.

Abby was there when we we started the EEOC claim.

And then as an extension of that, we filed a lawsuit.

And I think just taking that step was just an extension of what Abby and then the previous generation, Mia and them, were all fighting for.

It was.

everyone putting things in place for us to like finish the job.

So it's hard to say like, oh, we did it all because no, we didn't.

We just, we just finished the job that they laid the foundations for.

Oh, that's so cool.

You do think that the public accountability, I'm just obsessed with the, you do think that the PR agent with the publicly

telling the story

held them accountable in a way that was maybe a new strategy for you all.

Yeah, I think the power of social media was

played a huge role.

And

I think that having the fans and the media on our side also played a huge role

because public opinion is so important to companies.

Because, you know, U.S.

soccer is the main governing body of soccer in the U.S.

Every single kid that signs up to play soccer has to pay into this governing body.

Every coach that wants to get their license pays into this governing body.

So they oversee everything.

So public opinion matters to them.

For sure.

I want to talk about you as a parent.

I mean, Abby came home recently from a walk and was like, I saw Charlie on the strand.

And I was like,

Charlie?

Was Charlie with any grown-ups?

It was a couple months ago.

Your dad.

Just Charlie.

She was actually on your dad's shoulder.

So mature for her age.

But, you know, Charlie, how old is she right now?

She's a little over two.

Charlie might be in the sports.

I would imagine.

I mean, Servando, your husband is an athlete.

Yeah, he just retired about a year ago.

How's that going for him?

He struggled at first because he loves like the competition aspect of soccer, but

he actually is enjoying it now.

He took definitely a big break from soccer and now he enjoys playing pickup as bad of the level as it is in the pickup games here in San Diego.

That's amazing.

So if Charlie goes into sports.

I just want to talk to you about how you'll do it with her because I am now a convert to the sports.

I understand now how important it is because I've seen our daughter transform as a human being because of sports.

Not because she's great at sports, but because of what it taught her being on a team and pushing herself.

And there's so much toxicity in sports.

It's scary.

And I have seen over and over again friends and people who

want their kids to be involved in sports.

Yes, yay.

They know the power and beauty of it.

But there is so much institutional crap.

There's coaches who are a nightmare and like don't treat so that's the toxicity you're talking about

and the parents and the parents honestly and the parents but like what like what would you do if char because it seems like there's this thing that's allowed in coaching culture where coaches are allowed to talk to kids a certain way coaches are allowed to mistreat kids really in ways that we know developmentally don't work for kids but everybody's just like it's coaching and you can't say anything

yeah This is like culturally accepted locker room talk or whatever.

Yeah.

So it's excused, but actually it shouldn't be because they're children.

And, but parents can't speak up because then their kids get kicked out.

So, like, how would you navigate that?

I mean, you've had great coaches and bad coaches.

What makes a good coach and what makes a shitty coach?

I feel like in general, I hope that it's changing in the way coaches address,

especially coaching girls and women.

I think the most important thing is the relationship that we have with our children and making sure that that's an honest one where they know we fully support them and that we trust them so that they can tell us if there's anything that's not okay.

Because at the end of the day, until you hit, you know, 17, 18 years old, sports needs to be fun first.

And if it's not fun, then you either change the sport, you change the team, or you don't play sport.

I think

I want to have a relationship with Charlie for her to be able to tell me that,

you know, the coach isn't treating her well, or she's being taken advantage of, or whatever it is that she doesn't keep that in.

Because at the end of the day, there's going to be coaches that coach the wrong way,

either to individuals or to a team.

And so I just hope that my relationship with Charlie is one where she's able to express that to me.

She feels vulnerable enough to share that information with me.

What does a coach do that switches from tough coach to inappropriate coach?

Because it also feels like you want Charlie to be able to communicate with you, right?

But like kids don't even know sometimes because how do they know what's tough?

What's a tough, good coach that you can trust?

And when does that cross over into like

emotionally abusive?

Also, adults don't know.

Exactly.

So our kids aren't good enough.

I would love to get your opinion because I feel like I'm new at this parenting thing.

So,

you've been doing it for a little bit longer than me.

I mean, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Honestly, I think we've been really lucky with coaches, with our kids.

Yes.

I mean, we've been very lucky, but I've been very particular about who's coaching them.

Right.

That's kind of a privilege being me, Abby Wambach.

I can get recommendations from coaches, from people that I love and trust.

Right.

Not everybody has that privilege.

What I would say is that I feel like coaches can get away with things because we call it sports that a teacher would never be able to get away with.

That there is a way that some coaches can talk to children that is like not just tough.

It's demeaning.

It bothers me that there's no collective agreement on how coaches should be able to talk to children.

We do have that with teachers, right?

Like

it just feels like a wild, wild west and that you just have to take it.

Well, in a lot of ways, it is.

I've never done my coaching license, so I don't know in the manner that like a coach is taught how to emotionally connect with a player because what maybe works for one person doesn't work for the next.

Yep.

It's complicated.

And I think every person is different.

What their motivation tactics need to be is might be very different and opposite to the next person.

I know for me, I needed kind of somebody to light a fire under my ass.

So leadership, I find nowadays, it's a lot more difficult and more complicated as it should be as we evolve, as we learn more, as we grow, because every coach has to figure out what each individual person needs and to stay within those boundaries of that person.

Yeah.

What

are you trying to teach little Charlie?

What's important to you about her?

And do you feel like we talk a lot about conditioning on this pod?

Clearly, you as

an athlete who happens to be a woman had to take less pay for a really long time and be gaslit for decades

that you didn't deserve more, right?

Like,

what are you trying to teach?

By the way, that hasn't stopped.

I feel like we're still having to prove our worth all the time.

We pull in huge numbers, both in the NWCL and with the national team.

And still I feel like we're put on a, you know, a lesser network or not on TV, maybe a different platform.

And we're still having to prove why we're worth being put on TV or why we're worth being put in a certain ad or whatever it might be.

So it's not even close to over.

No.

Such fucking bullshit.

So how do you teach Charlie to

know her worth?

I think confidence is a big thing.

For her, it's just doing what she wants.

I go back to this when I was younger, when I was seven.

I wrote a note to my mom and she stuck it on her wall.

And I said, when I grow up, I want to become a professional soccer player.

And when I was seven, there was no, there was no professional league at the time,

just the Olympics.

I mean, in the World Cup, but my mom probably didn't know about that.

But she was like, yeah.

you're going to be a professional soccer player.

Like, let's do it.

Like put my sticky note on her wall.

And I was, it made me be like, yeah, my dreams aren't stupid.

You know, like I can do this.

Like if I'm the first or if I'm the hundredth, like I'm going to do it.

Just learning from my mom.

I want to be able to like

help Charlie grow whatever she wants to do into reality.

And that's why I love like bringing her on the field afterwards.

Letting her like, yeah, she just watched mom play soccer for the last like hour and a half.

Her time to shine is now her like kicking the ball around and stuff.

Like after the game, there's all these people waving, saying hi to me.

And Charlie's like, she loves it.

But I'm like, yeah, say hi.

They're all cheering for you.

You know what I mean?

So I just want to be able to like help her grow into this confident and beautiful person inside and out.

And I think that's just like a...

having her as much a part of my life as possible.

She travels like everywhere with me.

How does that work?

Yeah.

Glennon doesn't understand.

I don't understand.

I could not get my children to the mall.

I mean, Alex, we used to have field trips.

My children, we wake up at 9 a.m.

I would find their shoes and put them on.

So then it would be like 2 p.m.

Okay.

Just from that.

And then we would get in our minivan and we would watch a movie in the minivan.

That was our whole, our whole like

field trip.

And then we would get out and go back inside.

Like they didn't even know that cars move.

Okay.

They just thought that was a movie theater incredible in the driveway so like walk us through how the hell this works yeah so i have a village um who helps and my husband is amazing but he's also you know working and he's not coming on the road with me so uh my nanny is incredible

she helps me feel just

more settled knowing that Charlie's safe.

She's with me all the time.

And when she needs a break, it's my dad coming on.

He came with me to Kansas City a month ago.

And before that, when I went to London with

Tottenham as I came back from pregnancy and tried to get back aim fit, my mother-in-law actually came with me for three months.

Oh my God.

As Charlie was four months old, and I somehow spontaneously decided during a pandemic to move to England.

Why?

I don't know, but it was.

I thought it was a great decision at the time.

But honestly, I have a village and that helps me feel

rested for each game.

It helps me be able to take on the businesses that I tackle after soccer practice every day.

It helps me feel like I can focus on my job of playing soccer.

It's so underrated.

being able to just appreciate the help that I have, that we have as moms.

It's interesting.

I came across Melanie Linsky's critics choice speech.

She won an award and she's an actress, and she thanked her nanny.

So important.

In her speech, I just loved that so much because it feels like, as a mom, you have to hide that you're getting help as a working mom.

And I don't want to hide that, you know, like these, this is what helps me thrive.

This is what's helped me score 12 goals this season so far.

This is what's helped me become

one of the best soccer players in the world is the help that I get to

to be like a working mom and have Charlie be safe and cared for when I'm not around.

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I can imagine the kind of difficulty your confidence has, the roller coaster your confidence has probably gone on from having baby to coming back.

And now you're just scoring goals at an incredible clip.

Do you feel as confident as you've ever felt?

Now with a family, you're back at full fitness, playing great soccer, looking forward to the World Cup next summer.

I feel very confident, but I also feel like even if I didn't have 12 goals, I would still feel confident and I would still feel great about myself because

I'm just in a place where I'm so happy off of the field.

I'm in a very good place.

Like I'm here in San Diego, an hour away max from all of Servano's family, from all of my family.

Charlie is able to see her cousins and her aunts and uncles and her grandparents every week.

And it just feels like I'm in a different place in my life.

And I think that's helped with the success on the field because if I have a bad day or if I have a bad game, I'm not going to overanalyze it like I used to.

In general, you're your own worst critic, but as athletes, especially, you just dwell

on the bad moments and you could just get so negative.

You can just let the negativity just overcome you so easily.

And I feel like I've just kind of let that go.

It's so interesting.

You have such a huge career.

And it feels like what you're saying is the more you've bolstered up everything else outside of your career, the more you've been able to shine in your career and be less afraid, right?

Because you keep saying, if I lost soccer, I'd be okay, which is not what you normally hear.

What would you do?

I mean, I know you're already doing a lot of it, but when you say, if I lost soccer tomorrow, I know you would, you and Charlie and Servanda would, and your family would just probably, I mean, you're, you love spending time together, but professionally, what would you do?

Well, I have my media company together that I would take more of a front seat with, which has been currently more of a back seat because of just prioritizing time in the day and what I can possibly do.

But I would love to stay in soccer somehow.

I think I would be like a good advisor for U.S.

soccer or even FIFA.

I think they need some more females

in those rooms.

And I think that I could look men straight in the eye and tell them how it is.

Yes, Alex.

That's good.

So that would be something that I would be willing to do tomorrow if I didn't have soccer, if I didn't have the ball in my foot.

Yes.

That's called taking one for the team, going into FIFA and looking at these men who don't give a shit about us women.

Like literally,

it's like how when Heather O'Reilly was like, I'll take one for the team and I'll be a referee, even though she's not yet.

I was like, I feel the same way.

I'll take one for the team and I'll get up there and I'll tell them how it really needs to be done.

So, what would you say right now is the hardest thing for you?

What are you working out trying to figure out what's

right now?

Either painful or unsettled?

I think motherhood in general is very hard.

My husband, Servando, would love another

kid now,

but we do have the World Cup next year.

So

that's tough having to navigate motherhood and wanting to expand a family as an athlete.

And also,

quite frankly, being on birth control and not wanting to be on birth control, but feeling like I have to because I can't get pregnant right now.

That's hard because we don't know really what what that does to the body.

There hasn't been enough studies because, oh, surprise,

women are kind of an afterthought with that.

So I think just the whole thing of balancing motherhood, just the scheduling of me and Servando and the arguments that that's created in the schedule, in figuring out our schedules.

Charlie's sick right now.

He can't be home.

I can't be home.

I can't miss practice.

There's a lot of just

new challenges, a lot.

What part of Servando do you hope that Charlie has?

Well, she already looks like him, which I love.

They call her little Servandita.

He's really someone that like brings the room together.

Like he's just such a connector.

He could strike up a conversation with anyone.

He gets along with everyone.

And I feel like I am a lot more opinionated.

I don't necessarily pause for a few seconds before responding, which I need to work more on.

And he is just so great with his words, with his connections with people.

And so I would love her to have that part of him.

What parts of Charlie do you hope or does she have of you?

She has my competitiveness, which is scary.

The funniest, like, okay, she's,

we're in potty training and she just, she's, she likes to go, she likes to go in the potty, but she wants to do it all herself.

She can't quite like wipe or pull up her pants, but she likes to pull them down.

She likes to lift up the seat.

So I'll do things like I'll stand up next to the potty and I'll pull up this, I'll lift the seat for her.

She goes, no, no, no, no, Charlie, do it.

And she'll like, throw the seat down.

So then she can lift up the seat on her own.

So I just like have to let it go.

But I'm honestly honestly like that's that's me like i need to do everything myself i don't like pause when i respond like i'm so like hundred percent all the time um i'm so passionate about things i'm not like a half in type of person i'm not like get my toes wet i'm like jump in headfirst and she is totally like me like in that fashion and it's a little scary but I kind of understand a little bit how to navigate it because it's me.

Yeah.

Oh, Alex Morgan.

I just want to say this before we close.

Ever since I got to know you and I got to play with you,

you have exceeded the expectations that I even said to you long ago.

The person that you've become, the player and the leader you've become.

I'm just like not surprised in any way at how much more successful you've gotten since I retired.

You know,

I I just really love you.

And I think that

it's incredible to see what you've been able to accomplish, but to know that you are still the same person, the way you've gone through all of it, all the ups and the downs and the good and the hard times, it just shows the real character of who you are, the kind of person that you are, that you've stayed true and

the same.

Like you're still, you will always be that young little kid in my mind for some reason.

And I will forever be cheering for you.

I will always text you, even when you don't want me to, to try to build up your confidence for.

I never don't want you to text me, by the way.

Okay.

Alex, sometimes she'll be driving.

So I have to text for her.

And then I'll put an exclamation point.

And Abby will say, I would never text her an exclamation point.

Take away that.

So just know.

No, I would never.

I am also putting myself into those positions.

I would never text her seven exclamations.

Okay.

All right.

Fine.

Alex Alex Morgan, thank you for being you.

Thank you for being such a freaking gorgeous example of leadership and power

and friendship.

We love you.

We'll be cheering for you forever.

And I will even stand for all of your penalty kicks.

In reverence.

My, just my turn.

I just wanted to say thank you guys for having me on the podcast.

But Abby, we don't get to talk as much as I would love to, but it's always so good catching up with you.

It really warms my heart.

And just your relationship with Glennon is incredible.

It's inspiring.

And you guys have done such great things together.

And so I just absolutely love talking to you both.

Same.

And whenever it is you do decide to hang up those cleats, you know who to call for help.

Not that I can do anything.

Call Glennon.

She's got it.

We'll map it all out, sister.

And bring Charlie to our house, please, soon.

Okay.

Okay.

We're coming soon.

We're coming.

We love you.

Oh, and also, Potswan, I forgot you were there.

We love you so much.

And we will see you next time.

See you next time, all.

Bye.

And Abby, I forgot to say that I love you too.

I give you Tish Melton and Brandy Carlisle.

I walked through fire.

I came out the other side.

I chased desire.

I made sure I got what's mine

And I continue

to believe

That I'm the one for me

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on the map

A final destination.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find

our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a hard game.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes things fall apart.

And I continue

to believe

the best

people are free.

And it took some time,

but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

A final destination

we lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to renown.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we

can do hard things.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay with that.

We've stopped asking directions

in some places

they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to belong.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do hard things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we

can do hard

things.

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