127. Are you a Feeler or a Thinker? Either Way, Genius!

I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference.

That's why I think Alma is so cool.

Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience.

You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else.

And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard.

You know I love that.

That level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media.

It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress.

Better with people, better with Alma.

Visit hello alma.com/slash hardthings to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

That's hello A L M A dot com slash hardthings.

It's the beginning of a new school year and also the classroom sniffles and sneezes that go along with it.

From home to school and back, stock up with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues.

Start the school year off the right way by preparing for the messes that come with it.

You don't want to be caught without a tissue on hand to help.

Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues are soft and absorbent to stand up against runny noses, to keep you and your family clean and comforted as the school year starts.

This back to school season, make sure to get the classroom essential that teachers and students can rely on.

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things,

Where our true intention is really just to make life a little less hard and try to figure out the mystery of ourselves and each other, just to smidge more.

Let's jump right back into our personalities convo.

The third grouping is thinking and feeling.

Okay.

At the risk of being Charlie Brown, thinkers step back and apply impersonal analysis to problem solve.

They value logic, justice, fairness.

They are the correct people.

They truth over tact.

They are motivated by desire for achievement and accomplishment.

The feelers consider the effect of actions on others.

They are people and situation focused.

They value empathy and harmony.

It is as important to be tactful as it is to be truthful,

motivated by a desire to be appreciated.

So let's all say what we are.

You will be shocked to know that sister is a thinker.

Correct?

Correct.

Abby and I both tested high on the feelers.

What, what?

Yeah.

So what do you think about that?

I think we weren't surprised.

Do you think that you were probably, you're probably higher on the feeler than me or vice versa?

Well, it's interesting because being married to you,

there's some logistical things that I've had to learn to put into my daily operations that force me into not necessarily being.

I do think that I'm trending a little bit more towards becoming a thinker in some ways.

By necessity.

Out of necessity.

Under duress.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But like I said earlier, I tend to

instinctively have gut feelings.

Like I feel

a lot and I am thinking about the group feeling and what everybody will want a lot.

And so so this is, I think, one of the things that I scored highest at in difference to the other one.

I think it's really fascinating how you two operate being so different in this way.

And I want you to talk a little bit about that.

I do want to mark what you said.

That's another reason personality is malleable.

Because in a couple, if one person is really far the other way, you have to take on the other side.

Maybe.

Well, I think it happens with us.

Whenever I stop being anxious, you start being anxious.

Yes.

It's like you feel like, oh, she's not worrying, then I guess I better worry.

It's so annoying.

Yeah, that's called polarization.

I'm familiar.

It's a thing.

Yeah.

I think for this one, it's one of those humbling ones because the feeler has this like very, you know, people focused, considering the effects on others.

Things that arguably are great qualities to have.

And the thinker is like, none of those.

So I remember when I was living in rwanda i had this austrian roommate and she came home one day we were living together for like six months at the time and she came home one day and she said

i've observed something about you

you

are action orientated you are not people orientated

and i was like huh i guess for a roommate maybe that's something that should be considered like this is my call to maybe be a better roommate but i was like that's correct.

I definitely am that.

Like, I just, I am much more,

I'm just more focused on

the goals than the people.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

So when you say that you are more of a task oriented than people oriented, Is that something that has made you feel bad over time?

Kind of like being an introvert has made me feel bad because because

I'm supposed to be people-oriented.

How have you experienced that over time?

Has it been like a weakness that you're trying to change, or no?

Especially as a woman, yeah, because this stuff is just shit, it's gendered, right?

So, a man who's task-oriented over people, fine, great, you're a hero, awesome, champion.

A woman who's supposed to be nurturing, have you felt that to be gendered?

I think I just think of it as

a predisposition.

In a vacuum, if given two options,

I'm going to gravitate towards the task.

That's just, it feels very natural to me.

And I think in some ways, then I have to look

beyond that.

So, to answer your question, it's been so clear to me always that I think I just accepted it.

And I think I have a small group of people around around me that I am oriented toward, but I am not a lot wider than that.

Sometimes I think looking below, when you think about adaptive, like where does that come from?

Is my inclination to go towards the task?

Because

it is much easier for me.

to control outcomes with the task.

I am very effective at it.

I know how to do it.

I can just put my head down and get it done.

Whereas when it comes to people, they are much more messy and complicated and unpredictable.

And it's very hard to keep them on track.

And,

and so I wonder if that has something to do

with my adaptive need to control and need to be invulnerable and all of that.

So it's just interesting from that perspective to be like, it is true that this is where my natural predisposition is.

And then it's just trying to go a level lower and say, why is that the case?

And is that working all the time for me?

Is that working?

Like, am I, is the satisfaction I get from accomplishing tasks?

Is that level of satisfaction satiating my actual

joy and fulfillment and all of that?

What's interesting about you, sister, I think, that is this idea of you being this T,

this thinker, this task-oriented person,

because I think you have this laser-like focus that it is for your people, because all of the tasks that you're doing is for people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's so true.

So it's like kind of an interesting, and you two have like an incredible dynamic between Glenn and you being an F and you being a T sister on how you make business decisions.

You have to talk about that.

Okay, I'm a strong F.

You're a strong T.

First of all,

do we believe that's true?

In terms of like being careful about the stories we tell ourselves, do you believe that you're a strong T?

Like you think your way through decisions instead of feeling your way through decisions?

I 100% think I am.

Yeah.

Okay.

I am also willing to accept the strong F for now.

Let's take the pod squad through how we might make a decision together because we do make

probably every single decision, whether it's a little thing, like what's this caption going to be for our social media?

Or like, what's this huge next decision?

We make every single freaking decision together.

Like, literally, should there be a one exclamation point on this or a question mark?

That's how much we think through every single thing we say to you.

Lots of details.

We think for 15 years.

For 15 years.

Okay.

So.

Say like a big thing is presented to us.

Do you all want to do this big event or whatever?

Then how would you say that goes between a thinker and a feeler to make that decision together?

I would say that

we both have our niche expertise and that

I run through the kind of risk benefit analysis and like who are the partners, what the

ROI is, what the

vet the people and all the things like this.

And I will come to a conclusion about the advisability of it.

What's your analysis?

I mean, I would

think: okay,

I just have this one wild and precious life.

If this thing were tomorrow,

I always have to decide: is it tomorrow, if it were tomorrow?

Because if I say, oh, this thing's six months, that's some other version of me.

If this were tomorrow, would I feel a yes in my

body about

going, even though there was the no, because every yes is a no, right?

So I'd be saying no to being home with the family, to being, is that yes bigger than this no, like in my body.

And I would seriously think about my little skull that I wear around my neck, on my necklace.

Like I would think about death.

I would think of the life is short.

I would think all those things.

I can promise you the word ROI

would not be part of my decision making.

So then I would have

a feeling, a gut feeling that's a yes or no.

And then we would get on a call.

And I would just interject that you are very in tune with the people involved, both the people who are on the other side of the opportunity and your feelings towards them and whether it's warm or whether it feels just right or whether it feels a 1% off with them.

And then also in your family, there might be times where it's, it's a very good time for your children and they won't miss a beat when you leave.

And there's also times where you say, it literally doesn't matter how great that opportunity is.

This moment is not a moment that I'm leaving so-and-so.

Exactly.

Because my feeling is that it will not be good for them that I leave right now.

So it's like end of discussion.

So that kind of

high touch on the people.

I would say also

is heavily involved in your discussion.

Yeah, I think of it in terms of like concentric circles.

I'm in the middle.

Is this good for me and my spirit and my sobriety and my soul and my peace and whatever?

And then my family is right there, kids and Abby and Craig, what's going on with them.

Then there's the wider circle, which is our team.

There are times when it's like, no, it's not good for us.

Like they need me.

We need, I need me on the ground.

And then the wider thing is whoever I'm going to.

That is important to me, less important to me than all the concentric circles.

And by the time you get to me, I already know it's probably a good partner because you know who I want to speak to and who I don't.

And then when we talk, how do you feel like that goes?

I feel like we would say, this is what I'm thinking.

This is what I'm feeling.

And I'd say both of us have veto power.

Yeah.

So if you're feeling awesome and great about it, but I've done my analysis and I'm like, hard no, then it's off the table.

If I'm feeling super hot on it because of my analysis and it feels cold to you, it's hard no.

So I think that has worked well.

And I think inherent in that is a very

high level of respect

for each other's

process.

Process, you know, because that makes a big difference.

Someone, if anybody off the street walked in and said, I just feel like it's a no, I'd be like, pound sand, I'm not listening to you.

But I think over time, we have developed that trust with each other's process to know

that that veto power is well-founded.

And I'll say, I don't think we have never, sometimes we're both yes, sometimes we're both no, but there's never been a situation where one of us has vetoed that later we've been like, damn, that was a missed opportunity.

It's always turned right.

It's always, it's, it's, there was a reason for it.

And I would say, as a feeler, one thing that I really appreciate, and if for all of those thinkers who are partnered in business or family or friendship with feelers, one thing that I always appreciate is when I come back back and say, no, it's not right.

You never say why.

Yep.

Because feelers can't really always

like give you a bunch of bullet points.

But we do have a process.

So your respect for my process and not making me verbalize all the reasons all the time, because you probably could verbalize your reasons.

Usually, right?

Because you've thought.

Probably.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that made a spreadsheet for it.

But that might not make sense to a feeler.

Right.

Like, so I think that the mutual respect that you both have is the element to this process that makes it work so well.

Yes.

It's really something.

All right.

The next category is judging

or perceiving.

So this is J

or P, judging or perceiving.

And now, Real quick, judging does not mean judgmental.

I mean, it might because I'm a J.

Okay, well, I'm a J too.

I'm both.

Okay.

This is about working, planning, and decision-making, how we make decisions and how we kind of order our times and days and lives.

Yep.

Judging people are people who lean towards structure and making firm decisions.

Perceiving people like to be more flexible and open.

Yep.

With their time, their decisions, their day.

How did all of us end up?

I'm an off-the-charts J.

yes yes off the charts j okay i go back and forth between judging and perceiving i'm always on like the 50 50

and then what about you babe i'm pee perceiving you're perceiving yes of course you are of course you are so this is a person that likes a to-do list is the judging person it's somebody who wants structure in their time in their day.

They might make lists, to-do lists.

They might make lists for how to make decisions, pros and cons.

This is one of those categories that makes me

a little mistrustful of personality tests.

Cause to me, and this could just be me, but I just feel like there's always a back and forth between wanting structure and wanting

openness.

Like it's like, you know, when the kids were little or now, and it's the school year, and every minute of your life is like accounted for from the minute everybody wakes up to the minute you go to bed with like school and practice and all the things.

And you're desperate for free time, right?

You're desperate for summer.

Come on, summer.

Come on, summer.

So I can be free from all this structure.

And then you get to summer and it's like a week into summer.

And everyone's just laying around being themselves with no time.

And you're like, please, God, take me back to structure.

So it feels to me like my whole life is like a

wanting the thing that I don't have.

If I have structure, I want the freedom of openness.

Cool.

Yeah.

And then if I have the openness, I'm like, I feel like an untethered lost ship at sea and I want the anchor of structure.

Right.

But that's just the human condition.

Okay.

We want the thing until we want the thing.

We want the thing so bad.

That's the thing that's going to make us happy.

We get the thing and we're like, I want the other thing.

That's what's going to make me happy.

I agree with you on your analogy of the summer because that works.

But it's also just, I don't think, limited to this category.

I think it's pretty much everything.

Yeah.

I think more than the other ones, especially this one for me,

because I love open space.

I love being able to fill my day with whatever.

But I, in the peace I get from having structure liberates me to have

real experiences with that open time.

So

getting a workout done and having a calendar.

and seeing things on my calendar makes me feel safe to be able to be free and open.

So this is one category on the Myers-Bergs test that the grass can be greener on the other side in some ways.

But this is also one of the ones that I have figured out that all of these tests, I'm trying in my life, trying to get into the, I'm trying to get to the middle.

I really am because I see positive attributes on all of them.

I really do.

I find

that

it is almost imperative for me to try to find more of a balance because this for me feels like this will balance out all the pieces of my life for some reason.

I feel that.

I get it.

That's this is how I feel about my work, my job.

It's like, to what point do I prepare?

The magic is somewhere between making it happen and then letting it happen.

It's like where, like the magic of an hour of a podcast, the magic of an hour on stage, like when I go do a speaking event this week.

To me, it feels like prepare, prepare, prepare, and then show up and freaking let it all go.

and trust that the preparation is there.

But there's like it, when you prepare and stay rigid, you miss the magic of the moment.

So it's an and both all the time.

But I don't like no preparation, something prepared, something let go.

It's like the annoying thing about life, how everything's and both.

What does the future hold for business?

Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.

Bull market, bear market.

Rates will rise or fall.

Inflation, up or down.

Can someone please invent a crystal ball?

Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite, the number one AI cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform.

With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth, giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

With real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next.

Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities.

I highly recommend it.

Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash hard things.

The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash hard things.

Netsuite.com slash hard things.

I see where you're at.

If we go back to our original ways we started the first podcast about it's a collection of thoughts.

And, you know, if you have this dichotomy between

judging being work first, play later, perceiving being enjoy life now, work later, if you've got judging being taking deadlines seriously, perceiving being view deadlines as elastic,

you know, both of those can be somewhat of cages if you're too far in the extreme.

But as you gain more experience in your life and have more

self-efficacy, maybe you can know

when,

when is it important?

to take this deadline seriously.

And when can I actually push back a little bit?

When is it important to

work for first in this moment and play later?

And when in this moment does the fullness of my life require me to like jump on this moment of joy and work later?

Because too much rigidity, it's really like you're, you're hiding behind these shields as if either one of those is going to keep you safe.

You know, if I just enjoy life all the time, it'll keep me safe from whatever regret I have.

If I just work first all the time, it'll keep me safe to make sure that I get where I want to go.

The truth is nothing is keeping you safe.

So if you

begin to really have the fullness of confidence in yourself to be able to judge every moment or perceive every moment for what it is and make a decision based on that moment and what it calls for, you probably are going to make the wisest decisions for yourself.

Yeah, I love that.

I feel like it comes back to me to the beginning of introversion and extroversion.

For me,

it's location.

It's like where I am.

Like when I've prepared enough for something,

that's my inner world.

And then when I get to the podcast with YouTube or I get to a stage or I get to whatever, that's when I have to force myself to be present in the outer world.

And when I'm present in my outer world, I can no longer control.

And that's very scary to me.

In the inner world, I'm in charge of all of the things in there.

That's why social events, parties,

being around other people is

different for me.

It's, it's, it's, it's locationally different.

I have to be in a different place.

Like, I have to be in the outer world where you're there and you can say whatever the hell you want to.

And all of these things are happening.

So it's location.

Does that make sense?

It's like,

I get that.

And I think that for you too, like, this just happened this weekend.

We were going to the Angel City game and you had to do some stuff for the soccer moms.

And it was amazing.

And I just, I had to tell you, like,

you can prepare all you want, but you also have to understand that you are magic when you show up.

And it's not because of the preparation.

It's because you are magic.

Like the things that you think about and the things that you say, even off the cuff, that's magic.

That's you showing up without like any kind of preparation and just being open.

And so like the confidence to know that you're magic and your openness and not just your structured self.

Like that's, I think, an important element.

You have that.

You have that belief that you will be enough in the moment.

And that's why you're always so present.

And I always get the feeling like when we leave people or like a professional event or anything that people's thoughts will be, God, Abby is so, oh, like you just make people feel so.

magic and loved.

And then they'll be like, Glennon really nailed it.

Yeah.

yeah but i know who i want to go to lunch with yeah exactly yeah exactly okay you're magic too i love you all right i'm very fascinated with this one and i i understand the least about this last category but because it's newer right yeah it's a newer one it's called identity and it's the definition of it or the description is how confident we are in our abilities and our decisions.

And the two categories are assertive or turbulent.

And I think the assertive people are maybe more confident in their abilities and decisions.

They're more self-assured.

They're more even-tempered.

They're more resistant to stress.

They don't worry too much.

They aim for goals.

They want successful results.

They're unlikely to spend a lot of time thinking about their past actions or choices.

What's done is done.

for assertive types.

Turbulent individuals are success-driven, perfectionists, eager to improve, always trying to counterbalance their self-doubts by achieving more.

They push themselves.

Turbulent personality types tend to notice little problems and often do something about them before they come larger ones.

But overall,

assertive types are more confident in their abilities and decisions.

And turbulent people tend to be less confident in abilities and decisions.

Am I right in that I tested turbulent?

Yes.

And you two both tested assertive.

Is that correct?

I actually don't know what I tested on this one.

I think I did a test that didn't have the A or the T, which is fascinating because I am listening to you say this and

the turbulent describes me perfectly until you get to the point where you say it's about not being confident.

Because I think

I

have all of those perfectionists that always want to improve, noticing the little problems.

That describes me perfectly, but I wouldn't say that I'm not confident.

I feel like I'm confident because I do all that shit.

Oh.

Yeah, I'm curious.

This is the first test, Myers-Briggs, like tests that we took that

these were two,

which I actually appreciated a lot.

It made me feel like there was an update to the system.

You always love an update.

Well, I've done this test.

a hundred times in my life a hundred times it's not like the answers are different year over year it's like 10 years later five years later they i change everything changes so this has kind of been fun to read into a little bit i don't understand this category first of all so yeah i don't but can someone tell us what this category means call us and tell us what it means i'll tell you what i decided that it means

that my

i feel like i do have first of all i think turbulent is a good word for me

I would pick that word from a lineup for myself.

Right.

I don't want that to be true.

I don't want to be a turbulent person.

I want to be peaceful and steady and easy, breezy.

But in fact, I feel like the fruits of my life might

be turbulent and how I am on a daily basis.

But what I liked about this category was that I felt like it was telling me that my

way of being, which is I am

constantly racked by self-doubt.

Okay.

And I feel like annoyed by it because I feel like it's unfeminist of me and like unevolved.

And I don't want to be that way, but I am.

I'm very worried, like concerned that there's something wrong with me.

Like I always feel like there's something defective deep inside of me that I'm trying and one day will fix or overcome.

I don't know what the hell that thing is, but like everything I do all day is to try to all of like the self-growth

is to like fix this thing.

that is just not quite right.

But I feel like what this category was telling me was that

maybe there's like an okayness to even that way of being, that that's just a way of being that I've always decided was neurotic.

Maybe it's just that way of being makes me a good

thinker and writer.

And I don't know what the hell it means.

What do you think it means?

I'm interested in this because for a couple of reasons.

The addition of this to the test might bring it full circle to what we talked in the third podcast about really personality just being a collection of thoughts.

Because

it is interesting if you think about the collection of thoughts making you think a certain way all the time, like you being like, there's something wrong with me

over and over again, which leads to any number of behaviors that you just referenced.

It makes you think, well,

is that so?

What if I were to lay down

this collection of thoughts?

Let's just posit that that that is a possibility.

I don't know if it's possible to lay down a collection of thoughts that ingrained, but were it to be let down, is there

another

whole set of energies and actions that you would be able to

invite into your life by setting that down?

And then B,

If it is not the case that you can set that down, because that is just whether it's because it's adaptive or or trauma-based or whatever, it's just who you are,

then it makes me think of Cheryl Strade's It's

conversation in an earlier podcast where she's talking about, I'm never going to not hear this voice, you know, and I am just going to invite it to the table.

And the way I realign it is I don't give it as much of a voice.

I say, you're just one of the many, many voices that are in our symphony that is me.

And what I need to know about you is that you're usually like 99% wrong.

Yes.

Because it made me think of Dina on our team, who is just exceptional in every part of her job.

And she's, we were all laughing because we all did the tests and sent them to each other.

And hers

was,

um,

she's a turbulent architect because, and just to back up, every one of these Myers-Briggs,

there's obviously since the original four, there are 16 permutations that you can get because each one of the four categories can either be a turbulent or assertive.

So there's 16 and then they name them all in the 16 personalities.

So hers is architect.

And for turbulent architects, many of their best efforts come from concerns about real or perceived shortcomings.

This may push them to work harder and be more meticulous in an attempt to do better or make things better.

These personalities are more thorough, not despite the fact that they worry, but because they do worry.

And so she's an I-N-J-T-E-T.

That

made me like, oh, that makes total sense because she's amazingly meticulous.

But it also makes me sad because I'm like, what if you just

trusted that you were amazing and meticulous.

Like, what if you didn't need to worry?

And that's what I think about when I think about you.

What if you didn't have to think that there was something wrong with you?

Like, what, what would happen with that extra energy?

Yeah, I do those extra thoughts.

I have an idea because language is so important to you.

And the word turbulent, I think has kind of a negative.

feel to it like an ocean that is like out of control and it's going to

drown everybody but like all of the attributes that you read are very positive right so like you think oh maybe this this has something to do with like that feeling like something is wrong with me that i need to change something so i'm always doing self-care trying to perfect trying to fix that that one thing

if maybe the language is a little bit different maybe

maybe you are just like a growth mindseted person

where you're always just trying to better yourself yeah well that's funny because the assertives are defined as growth mindset and turbulent is gone so it's interesting.

Hey, everyone.

I've got to tell you about Viori.

If you haven't heard of them, you're missing out.

And we love this stuff.

I've been living in this stuff for years.

I recently got the performance jogger from their dream knit collection.

And let me just say, it's hands down the softest, comfiest jogger I've ever worn.

I use them for everything.

Viori is an investment in your happiness.

I promise you.

For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase.

Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viori.com slash hardthings.

That's vuo r i.com slash hardthings.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S.

orders over $75 and free returns.

Go to viori.com slash hardthings and discover the versatility of Viori clothing.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Do you think that last line that I read about Dina that

she's good not despite the fact she worries, but because of it?

Do you think you're good not despite the fact you think something's wrong with you, but but because of it?

Yeah, I think that's correct.

It reminds me of something Liz Gilbert said recently, which was, you're afraid to stop

being anxious because you think if you stop being anxious, you will lose control.

But you never had control.

All you ever had was anxiety.

So it's like, I'm scared to stop

feeling like I'm not enough.

I'm scared to stop worrying that everything's going to fall apart because I actually believe that my worrying is what's keeping all this shit together.

That's right.

But that's not the case

at all.

But I just, I actually didn't mean for this to turn into a therapy session.

What I meant to say

was that it made me feel like,

first of all, one thing that I can do with this voice is just to voice it every once in a while because I think it makes other people sometimes feel who have that voice feel less

debilitated by it.

Sure.

Because I can have that voice and then still show up and do this shit all the time.

I just don't know if it's ever going to go away.

I kind of feel like

this might be not optimistic or something, but I do feel like I'm somebody who has tried a lot of shit, who has done all the things,

a lot of things.

And I still have this way of being.

So what I did take from this was that maybe there's a meaning behind it.

Because

I feel like when you say you feel sad about Dina's worrying,

like maybe we all feel a little bit sad about everybody else's thing because we're bringing our own judgment to it.

Like I feel sad about yours,

your commander, having to be in charge all the time, having to be whatever.

But what this test has done for me is to stop feeling sad about that because that's actually just judging your personality by my personality.

It's like the Enneagram episode.

Yes.

Yeah.

I think the whole point of it is like, we don't have to change each other's things.

Maybe my

worry that there's something, you know, yearning inside of me for different isn't something that ever needs to be changed.

Maybe it's just acceptance.

Maybe the longing inside of me for something different is what helps me be who I am in the world.

And maybe Dina's like fire inside

is what is helping her be who she is in the world.

And maybe your like driven

leadership is what's helping our family and our company be who they are.

And you're like Abby's commitment to joy is making all of this not suck for us.

is like being the music behind all the like lyrics and being the energy behind all of it.

So what I'm trying to say is not like, what if one day I replace these things?

It's like, what if this is just who I am and that's okay?

Acceptance.

That's what Antonia Dodge and Joel Markwit do, personality hacker.

And they say that these personality tests for them are to give folks permission to be themselves and then unconsciously give that permission to everyone else.

Yes.

They say, we believe that when you give yourself permission to be yourself, you own all of the components to who you are, including your genius.

And that way you can give your gift, the gift of who you are to the world.

Yes.

Okay.

That's right.

That's what I was trying to say.

Maybe my neuroticism is my genius.

It is.

Well, let's get, okay, let's tell one of the cool things about the test we took, which by the way, you guys, just so everyone knows, we don't have any like, we're not.

We don't have any connection to this.

We just found this shit.

Okay.

We're not like pushing it.

We know how to use buy it.

We know how to use the Google.

That's on account of how we found all this.

Right.

Okay.

So these little categories, we told you: the introvert or extrovert, the intuitive or sensory, the judging or perceiving, the turbulent or assertive gives you a letter in each category.

And then that makes up your personality type.

So, for example, mine is I-N-F-J-T.

I am intuitive.

I am, nope, I am introverted.

I am

intuitive.

I am feeling.

I am judging.

I am turbulent.

So

the name for my

particular personality is advocate.

Yes.

They give you a word for what you are.

I-N-F-J-T is advocate.

And then that gives you a bunch of paragraphs that describe your particular personality.

I'm just going to throw out that my personality was one of the rarest,

right?

6% of people.

I read the things.

I felt like some of these things really applied to me.

What did you all think?

Because I I think this is an interesting part where we can get the self-deception out of this.

Did you all feel like this described me and in what ways?

I thought it did.

This is my favorite quote from your section.

People with this personality type enjoy the pleasure of their own company.

They may seem quiet or reserved to the world at large.

They absolutely light up around their close friends.

They bring to their friendship mutual support and growth.

Having fun together is wonderful, but for these personalities, it isn't quite enough.

That reminds me so much of your like, fun is for children.

Bring me something else.

Advocates may end up with just a few true friendships rather than a wide circle of casual acquaintances.

That's an example of one thing that this test can make you feel better because it's like, oh.

It's not that I'm defective and that's why I can't have a million friends.

It's this is just part of my personality that I might prefer to go very deep with a small circle than, you know,

a wider one.

I also think just in terms of the word advocate, I just don't know if there's anybody in the world that's advocating more for other people than you.

You're always trying to include,

especially any person who is marginalized.

I think that you are.

through and through an extraordinary advocate.

Thank you, Lovebug.

Okay, sisters was Commander.

What are her letters?

Her name is even in it.

She's Commander, Amanda.

Amanda the Commander.

And she is E-N-T-J-A.

So can you tell us what those stand for, Sissy?

Extroverted, intuitive, thinking, judging, assertive.

So I guess I did take the assertive death.

Yeah, you did.

I felt like this really

to a T described you.

At the negotiating table, be it in a corporate environment or buying a car, commanders are dominant, relentless, unforgiving.

This isn't because they are cold-hearted or vicious.

It's more that commander personalities genuinely enjoy the challenge, the battle of wits, the repartee that comes from this environment.

And if the other side can't keep up, That's no reason for commanders to fold on their own core tenet of ultimate victory.

If we're in like a negotiation and and the other side is like being human like breaking down not not quite as prepared not quite like sister won't be like oh let's like

like take it slow down and see how that person's going sister will be like finish him

it's so fascinating so commanders

Well, and this is true.

If there's anyone commanders respect, it's someone who's able to stand up to them intellectually.

So say we're at that table and the other person is bringing the same level of genius and attention and preparedness that sister is.

So, the battle is on.

That sort of thing will make me have a nervous breakdown.

That will make sister be like, that's my new friend.

Yeah.

The conflict, if it's of a certain quality, that's what sister respects in the other person.

Bury myself in a hole.

Right, exactly.

What do you think?

Well, you were very kind to take the work-based part of the test and highlight that because when I first took this test, I was at a very small dinner party with my dear friend V and she had us all take the test.

And then she began to read

everyone's results.

And she was in mine, and she got to the interpersonal relationship part of the commander.

And she looked up.

and looked at me in front of everyone and goes, oh my God, do you want me to keep reading?

It was rough.

It's like someone being like, this is what your insides look like.

Would you like to show it to the dinner party?

And we did.

And so I'm just saying, to me, it's funny that you're reading that and I take that as a compliment.

To some people, people might be like, she must be so embarrassed by that.

I'm like, I'll take it for the compliment.

I know.

But not all of it is that good.

How would you like to feel calmer, think clearer, and sleep better, all in just two minutes?

Meet Truvega Plus, a handheld device that uses gentle vagus nerve stimulation to help calm your body's stress response.

In just two minutes a session, TrueVega helps shift you out of fight or flight and into a more relaxed, balanced state.

By naturally supporting your body's nervous system, you can quiet mental chatter, ease anxious feelings, and promote deeper, more restful sleep.

So you wake up feeling refreshed and clear-headed.

There are no pills, no side effects, just safe, clinically backed technology developed from decades of neuromodulation research.

Ready to try it out?

Visit Truevega.com and use code WCDHT25 at checkout to receive $25 off your purchase.

Take action today and upgrade to feeling better every day with TrueVega.

Visit truevega.com and use my code WCDHT25 to receive $25 off your purchase.

Feel calmer and sleep better with True Vega.

One of the things that's cool about this is,

say, your partner, say John is hearing that,

like how you are in a relationship.

Isn't that helpful, though?

Because like for me,

sometimes when you're in commander mode, in that professional setting with me, I can think,

I'm not doing this right.

So she feels like she has to like,

I'm taking it personally.

I think there's something wrong with how I'm doing it.

So you feel like you're needing to whatever.

So when I read this stuff and I'm like, no, that's just my sister.

Like, this is just her badass self.

It has nothing to do with my defect, my whatever.

It helps take things less personally and like respect and accept.

Respect and accept.

I think

you're not defective.

My baby, Abby Wombach

is

an ESFP

A.

Okay, so you're an

extrovert.

Sensing, feeling, perceiving.

And assertive.

And assertive.

Right.

And everyone, the whole pod squad will be shocked to know that Abby's particular personality is called.

I'm the entertainer.

She's the entertainer.

Can I just read a little bit about our Abby?

Okay.

Do it.

Entertainers get caught up in the excitement of the moment.

They want everyone else to feel that way too.

No other personality type is as generous with their time and energy as entertainers.

That is so true.

When it comes to encouraging others, and no other personality type does it with such irresistible style,

you are irresistible.

Oh my gosh, you are.

And your style is

chef's.

Yes.

Entertainers are welcome wherever there's a need for laughter, playfulness, and a volunteer to try something new and fun.

There's no greater joy for an entertainer than to bring everyone else along for the ride.

This made me laugh.

Entertainers can chat for hours, sometimes about anything but the topic they meant to talk about.

How do you feel about your

label?

It's true.

It's true.

Yeah, I think it's true.

I think I'm always and have forever been somebody that's been looking for joy.

And nothing does make me happier than seeing

other people experience joy and maybe having some sense of

closeness to it, either helping them create it or being next to somebody, like surfing with other people who've just figured out,

even though they're not necessarily great surfers, they've just stood up on their first wave and they're in the water and they come out of the water and they look back like

heart explodes, like like care bear rainbows are just like going out

yes you you are that's

yes in our family's life it's just abby's like carbonation it's like

i'm like the still water abby just brings the carbonation we recently had it and and my mom was here for a few days and abby wasn't here

And it was like all the carbonation was gone.

I didn't know how to make things magic for my mom.

I just was sitting there like,

what what now?

It's just the difference between fizzy water and still water.

Here's one, one of the things I think is cool about these things is that Years said that entertainers are very sensitive, okay, strongly emotional, very vulnerable to criticism.

They can feel like they've been backed into a corner, sometimes reacting badly.

This is probably entertainers' greatest weakness because it makes it so hard to address any other weakness brought to life.

I thought that helped me so much because especially in the beginning of our relationship, when we would try to communicate about something, I would bring up something

and you would get so upset about even

shut down.

Just power down.

Right.

And so then it was hard to ever discuss the actual issue because we were always dealing with your shame about the issue.

Yep.

Which I was constantly like, am I doing this wrong?

Am I bringing this up wrong?

Which, by the way, I probably was.

But it did help me to read that because, oh, it's not personal.

That's not, that's like actually a personality trait that if you love that person, then you, you work with it.

I've really worked on it though, and you've helped because every time you come to me with any kind of issue, conflict, not anymore so much because I feel more safe, but at first you would have to say, honey, I'm not going to leave you.

I love you.

Yeah.

Everything's going to be okay, but I just need to talk to you about this thing.

Yeah.

And then it would settle me.

I wouldn't go into that.

I don't know.

There's something happens that I, it's,

I almost like black out and I shut down and I immediately spin and spiral down into like the worst case scenario.

And so then I can't hear.

I, I was, it's hard for me.

It was hard for me to hear any like personal criticisms.

So your worst case was abandonment.

So I would say, I'm never going to leave you.

You would say to me, there's nothing wrong with you.

Yeah.

You're not crazy.

I just want to talk about this thing.

Yeah.

So.

What do you all think was your biggest takeaway from this test?

And what else do we want to say that we have not said to our beloved pod squad about this situation?

I want to tell them that they can take this test at 16personalities.com.

That's where we found it.

We have no connection to 16.

We have no connection.

We do not lend any credibility to that, but just if you want to know.

I think one of the things that I just appreciate a lot is, you know, our whole team, not just the three of us, have taken this.

And learning about everybody

is

really important and we're doing a lot of personal the three of us do a lot of talking about our personal lives our personal selves and to me it was really helpful to get to know allison and dina a little bit more deeply so that i can

speak into their personalities like you know this is just information and i think the more information the better and like leave out some of the information you need that doesn't serve you yeah i wonder if like every i n

what am i inf j what am i yeah

it t is is a pod squatter because it's like only six percent of the population but half of our team audio

and allison

are all i'm interesting j t's anyway um we love you no matter what your freaking personality is

And if life gets hard this week, don't you dare forget that you can do hard things.

If y'all would be willing to take two minutes and do one thing, it would really

be wonderful.

Following the pod is so important to us and it helps the show a lot.

It would mean a lot to us if you'd take a minute to follow We Can Do Hard Things wherever you listen to podcasts.

It's how you know that you'll never miss an episode or special announcements about events like the live ones we've been having.

So if you have an iPhone, open the podcast app and it's a purple thing.

It looks like a microphone.

You search We Can Do Hard Things and then tap on the show icon, which is the little picture of Lennon.

Then tap the plus sign on the top right.

After you hit that plus sign, that will follow you.

That's it.

You're done.

If you don't have an iPhone, you just do the same thing on Odyssey, Spotify, Stitcher, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Just search We Can Do Hard Things

and click follow or subscribe.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Means a lot to us.

Thank you, thank you.

You keep showing up, and so will we.

We'll see you next time.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it.

If you didn't, don't worry about it.

It's fine.