70. My Hardest Thing

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Hi.

Hi.

Hi, sister.

So if that welcome sounded a little bit dramatic and dready, it's because we

are going to talk about something pretty serious today.

And

that topic,

I actually haven't even spoken directly to sister about any of this.

Abby and I, we have been in.

light conversation about this situation for the last couple weeks at least.

But what we're going to talk about today is something

serious and kind of sad,

but really important and hard.

And that's what we do here: we talk about things that are important, even when they're hard, or especially when they're hard.

So, what we're going to do is talk about the fact that

over the holidays, I

had an eating disorder relapse.

And that sounds way too simple for what happened and has been happening, but I

have only have words to describe things.

So I can only use words.

So that is

what happened over the holidays.

And so today I'm going to talk about it here with

all of you.

And I'm going to just try to use words, which is all I have, to describe

what I've been going through for the last bit of time.

Well, before you get into it, tell us how you're feeling right now.

I feel

a little bit,

I feel nervous to represent things accurately.

I feel a big responsibility

to speak

about something that so many people suffer from.

I feel scared because whenever anyone,

anyone, I don't think it's just in the public, anyone speaks about

what the world would consider a failure.

It feels like you're making yourself vulnerable to people discounting you.

So

I feel

that that's a risk.

But I also feel like

a little bit grounded in a way I never feel as grounded on this podcast because

I know how to do this.

I know how to like tell the real truth

um

of things even in scary ways that's how i've survived i feel like i i know what i'm doing but i also know that it's risky yeah well it feels like you're just opening yourself up which i just find so

freaking beautiful um and it's just i can't how do you feel you're nervous you've been nervous you asked me a million times, are you sure you want to do this?

Well, you know, you're twiddling your thumbs up.

I want to protect you.

And I also,

I think you're perfect.

And I know that we are all imperfect.

I truly do.

And yet, I still want to make sure that you understand that, like,

no matter what, like, we are ride or die.

And

this is why, like, this is a reason why I love you, not something to not love love about you.

And I think that

I just, I find you to be,

this isn't courage or bravery.

Like,

this is just like,

this is exactly

what I feel like I was made for.

Such a time as this.

And

you are doing great.

And it's, you know, what you said this morning when we were just leaving the bathroom to come down here to do this.

And you asked me one more time, are you sure that you want to do this?

And I said, The well, one of the reasons is because

of my unshakable belief, whether this is true or not,

that I'm not about to explain to everybody why I'm fucked up.

Like, I really truly believe that we all have these

weird,

swirly,

dark, maybe sparkle, whatever this weird, wild self self inside and that

um

and that one of my

jobs gifts whatever is to just really talk about that but I feel like there's part of what I'm revealing that is true about all of us regardless of how it manifests in my life

And this part feels dramatic, like it feels dramatic to say because

it, you know, the whole word relapse is dramatic.

But if something is true, it's true all the way through.

And if we say

we

want to show up

with our

mess and that we're still worthy of love, it's true whether we're talking about our house is a mess or we're talking about where our

insides are a mess or we're talking about, you know, it's got to be true all the way through.

It doesn't make anything

about

who you've become less valid.

It actually proves that you truly believe in what you say, that you're willing to show up like this.

So

I do.

I had this feeling this morning of

this is going to sound so weird.

This isn't the right word, but pride, or I feel like I have been hiding again, this like part of myself.

and

I don't feel ashamed of this.

I don't feel ashamed of this weird side of myself.

But I've been because of the hiding, I have been acting like I do.

So, in talking about it, I feel like this part of myself is like a friend, and I'm like standing up for her right now, as weird as that sounds.

I'm like, no, no, no, you can speak.

Yeah, you're allowed to show up at the table.

Like, we're not hiding you when the people come visit.

That's right.

That's right.

Because this part of you that makes your life so hard

sometimes

is also the part that in a swirly different way that people celebrate this weirdness that shows up in different ways.

So we don't get to just love her when she's shiny and whatever.

Like we love ourselves even when we're

hurting.

maybe maybe more importantly then

right so that's what we're doing today and um buckle up folks the why is

the why we're doing it is for all of the reasons we just talked about um

it's not

it's interesting because my friend nadia bolzwever says we don't write from our wounds our open wounds we write from our scars meaning we wait, right, until pain has turned into wisdom, because otherwise things just seem like a cry for help instead of an act of service or a piece of art.

And I think that all rules, you have to learn them and know them and get them in your bones so that you know when to break them.

And you also have to have enough,

I guess,

success at recovery and humaning behind you

so that

when you're in the middle of the opened wound, you still

have a grounding beneath you.

Like, I know how to do this.

I'm someone who's been to rock bottom a few times in terms of alcoholism, in terms of mental illness, in terms of all of it, eating disorder stuff.

And I kind of, although I feel very scared, because when you're in the middle of it, you kind of forget that you're going to get out.

I can look back on my life and know that I will because of

because I have, because I trust myself.

So I am speaking from an opened wound, but also one that I've seen scar over so many times that I trust the process enough to speak right now.

I'm also

with my wife and my sister.

I'm with my two people that I trust most in the world.

And I'm speaking to this pod squad that I really do trust.

I feel

safe here in a way I I don't feel on social media or whatever.

Also, I have been thinking for the last few days about how mental illness is discussed in the world.

And it just always feels like it's being discussed by someone who has it all figured out or who is talking about it, but not from it.

Wow.

Which

I don't know.

There's something weird about it.

And I get it because when someone is in the middle of a low or

when someone who struggles with mental illness,

you know, I used to use the metaphor of being swallowed by the whale.

Like when you're in the whale, you can't really speak clearly.

So how are people going to speak from it?

But it still

makes you feel all the time like

Like people are talking at you that don't even understand it.

Like it's always like here's your 10 steps on mental but it but it's not you're not hearing from somebody in it, which is how you feel less alone.

And I, it's like before or after, but not the middle.

Like you never hear from the middle.

So I think there's something important

to speaking in the middle if it's possible.

And then the how I'm going to do it is I am going to say whatever I want to say.

for the next hour.

So I'm just going to tell the story of the last month or so with words that are

match as closely as possible the experience.

I'm not going to worry about sounding crazy or triggering people.

What I need you to do,

loves, is if

eating disorder talk, mental illness talk,

all of this sort of traumatic talk is triggering to you, please skip this.

Okay.

Because I'm not going to worry about it starting in a minute.

Okay.

So I need you to take care of yourself yourself so that I don't have to take care of you for the next hour,

okay.

Um,

so does that sound okay?

Sounds wonderful.

I mean, how are you doing, sissy?

Do you feel nervy?

I mean, I feel

so many things.

I feel um

curious, I feel

sad, I feel proud of you, I feel

like

unhelpful.

I feel

that,

you know,

it's wild because I first learned about this when, right after we left from the holiday break, and we had just been together for two weeks.

And I felt a little like,

oh man, she was going through all of this.

And I was right there with her, but I was not right there with her at all.

And

so

and I'm I'm I'm proud of you for doing this and I'm um want to support you for the next hour and then all the hours after that.

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Well, what?

what, okay, so

looking back, I feel like, and you please tell me, because I'm not always good at, when I'm in something, I can't always remember what I was like before in any way.

But I do know that I remember

at the beginning of COVID, which was a strange time for everybody, and for us, it was strange in the way that Untamed was like blowing up and I had 70,000 interviews a day and all of that.

I do remember spending a lot of time talking about

having untamed myself in many, many ways in terms of

sexuality and our family and marriage and gender stuff even.

And talking a lot about how frustrated I was that I still have not broken free from compulsive thinking about body and food.

Right.

So the reason I say that is because when I try to trace back this

relapse

and I say, oh, it was two weeks ago or a month ago, I'm like, well, okay, we can trace the like getting weird, as we call it, like the

slow fade into this.

I remember

feeling compulsive thoughts come back.

right around a couple years ago.

Cause we would talk about it too, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think that if you want to know like the logistics of it, it's like you were preparing.

So like lest we forget, you were about to go on a nationwide book tour.

Okay.

So it was before that.

And so it was before COVID hit.

And oftentimes before you go on the book tour, there's a huge to-do, you know, like your whole team has planned an entire for a whole year, this book tour.

You have a whole situation of clothes.

And

stage and you are about to go talk about this this art that you've just created.

It's now going to go out into the world.

So

when we talk about getting weird or getting weird again, I just want to

talk about all of the context that was and is a part of those times when you start getting

like we talk weird, but like you start to obsess, I think a little bit about your body.

Yeah,

there's an element of, okay, things are about to be so out of control, and I'm going to be so vulnerable because people are going to be staring at me, and I'm going to be on stages, and I'm going to be talking about this,

pouring my heart out.

There's a feeling of

how can I, what can I do to make myself invulnerable?

And I think that comes

with a lot of like

in my

compulsive, twisted thinking,

well, I can make myself

a like robot in terms of

body, face, all of that.

Like I can make myself completely unjuicy, unhuman, inhuman.

Because the way that a woman looks in the world is a vulnerability all the time, because anybody can say shit about whatever.

And so when you're about to go out into the world and say things that are controversial in themselves,

and you know, people are going to have a whole shit ton to say about what you're saying and who you are if you can control one part of it.

Yeah.

They can't say this.

They can't say I'm whatever.

So controlling your physicality, that's interesting.

Yeah, that's true.

And you were also about to un, you know, to deliver your this love story.

So everything that was in the book.

I don't know.

I just think it's really important in terms of the context of it all.

Like you are literally turning your insides out and letting people read

your insides.

Yeah.

And when I, and when I look back on pictures of then, I was really fucking skinny.

Like

it was something when I look back on those pictures.

So interesting.

Okay.

So then that happens.

And then the tour gets canceled.

And then we're home.

And then the pandemic happens, right?

Yep.

So you are right.

I was probably already in

those that way of thinking.

For a few months before the pandemic.

Yeah.

And also I would say, for anybody, you know, there's an anxiety controlling.

Like, if you're, if you have some anxiety going into a big thing,

working out, sweating, working out, like, all of those things

are anxiety.

You feel like it's going to take the edge off.

You just exhaust yourself.

You exhaust the anxiety out.

So I was probably working out too much.

Yeah.

So,

what I know is that at some point,

the thinking, the overthinking about food and body just felt like it was getting more and more intense.

The next marker I remember is the scale came back.

I must have found a scale somewhere in our garage.

Yeah.

I don't know why I was even still in our house, but that's just like a marker for, you know, the scale came into our bathroom.

Over months and months, I just,

you know, it was like I was, I'll just weigh myself once a, once a month.

Then it was once a week.

Then it was once a day.

Then it was, you know, most recently it was like eight times a day, like every time I went into the bathroom.

Just like,

to give you context, I, at the one point, I remember being like, I'll just do this without my headband on.

Like, I'll just weigh myself without my headband.

Like that kind of level of obsession.

I just want to remind you that at the time too, we were trying to do things to keep ourselves busy during the pandemic.

So I hired a trainer to come and train us on the driveway.

Yep.

And so this is what I thought, because at the time we were having kind of open conversations about like, you know, I'm starting to obsess, you know, and I'm like, okay, I think that what we should do then is we should work out so that you,

your body is strong, so that you know that your body is strong.

But I think that that was like gas on the fire and me.

Yeah.

And I knew that.

I mean, I looked at that lady one day and was like, I'm never coming back to this driveway.

Like, I don't like this.

This isn't the right vibe for me and didn't come back so but that's what happens you try all these things

you know so i think that i did actually throw up a couple of times or maybe two or three times over those months

and then

the

the two weeks

did abby know about that no okay

no you did tell me I did.

Yeah.

You told me that you were getting weird and like there was just a couple of ice cream incidents.

I did.

Wow.

Good for me.

Well, okay.

So

that.

And then

right at Christmas.

This Christmas?

This Christmas.

Yeah.

The

whole family was here.

And I think that,

you know, we have had some

family stuff come up over the last year

that has been mostly good in terms of like talking about things that our family hasn't talked about,

bringing up some old stuff dynamics in our family that probably

for sure originally contributed to

an environment that would have been

allowed this

to

flourish.

Right.

Right.

So

that stuff has been brought up, but I don't know, you know, people who are listening when you're dealing with stuff with your family of origin, it's like brought up, and that's an amazing, ridiculously brave step that most people don't do at all, is bring up dynamics that may have been harmful in one way or another, especially in a family so full of love and so full of goodness.

It's hard to bring up the stuff that wasn't good enough.

But then there's this period where

it's not, nothing's taken care of really.

It's just like this weird time, this weird in between where the thing, the elephant in the room has been pointed out,

but like

it's still there.

No revolution.

No one ever talks about that part of the elephant in the room.

You're like, but now.

We just got a fucking elephant in the room.

Like, that's how it feels.

Not that helpful.

It's not like, well, it should be, it should be like excusing the elephant from the room, but it's not.

Yes.

It's just calling out the elephant in the room, but it's still trampling over all your shit.

I mean,

you know, shout out to all the family therapists.

Is there?

Because I feel like that's a part you've missed.

Yeah.

How do you resolve the problem you've just pointed out?

There's no elephant removal crew.

So then there's the like, you know, the canaries in the coal mine or the whatever, the families who have the elephant pointer outer.

But then when you point it out, then you just feel like a jackass because then everybody's like, well, thanks a lot.

Yeah.

You pointed out the elephant, but now we're all staring at an elephant.

So

way to go, you know?

So

anyway,

the context is that Christmas happens

and

all of this is to lead up to the last week of Christmas, the last week of

2021.

Is that what it just was?

I was throwing up every night.

Right.

So

New Year's Day,

you guys leave.

Sister, you and John leave on New Year's Day.

Yeah.

So you and the kids and John left New Year's Day.

Our friends, our dear friends, Katie and Cam, texted us us like a few hours after you left and were like,

we're in your town.

Can we come say hi?

And

like literally, if there was anyone else, we would have pretended that we couldn't find our phones because we were like de-stressing and like getting the quiet house back.

But it was Katie and Cam.

So we were like, get over here.

And so I had this moment because at this point, I'm still just keeping this all to myself.

And

that's a tricky place for me because I think I kind of know I'm keeping a secret from myself.

And that, that's how, that's the, my definition of my own sobriety.

It's when I'm, a break in sobriety is when I am keeping a secret

even from myself.

That's, that's it.

But that's even tricky for me

because so much of my life.

you know, since I was 10 years old was kind of was

this life

of like eating and throwing up and whatever.

And so it kind of just feels like life to me.

I can very much switch back into like, oh, this is just what life is.

This is how I can, some people go for walks.

Some people go to a therapist.

It's a well-trodden path.

This is how I deal with myself.

A well-trod path for you.

Yeah.

It's familiar.

Yeah.

It's familiar.

Yeah.

But so Katie and Cam sat down and everybody, I think somebody said, well, what are your intentions for 2021?

You know, they're lesbians.

We're lesbians.

This is, you don't, we, you, there's no small talk.

We get right into like our deepest, right?

And it's 2022, incidentally.

There's no demarcation, but intentions for 2022 is what you intended.

Right.

Is that what I said?

Okay.

You said 2021.

But it's the groundhog year, so it's fine.

Exactly.

And so Abby said something, and awesome, and Cam said something, and they all looked at me.

And I had no, I had nothingness.

I had nothing

to say.

I could not think of one true thing

to come out of my mouth.

And so I kind of panicked and just said something about work, which is I never, ever.

If anybody asked me about like, what is my, work is not

what I go to.

But I had, and so I don't know how to explain.

why that was such a red flag to me other than, oh, I'm lying to myself.

I, I have nowhere true to start.

That blankness, that nothingness, that looking at three people on my couch who I trust, you know, 10, top 10 people in my life, the three of them were on that couch.

And I had nothing,

I had no they're there anymore.

Like,

it was, it's the opposite of the there she is moment.

It was like, where'd she go?

Like, where am I?

I have no,

I've, I have, I have lies blocking

any truth, anything that I could, could say is bullshit, because the truest thing I know is I'm fucked again.

And I'm not saying that.

Why am I not saying that?

So, since the truest thing I know is that I'm scared because I'm like back in this scary place, then why am I not saying that?

I'm not saying that because I am deliberately hiding and that means I'm fucked.

Not the fact that I'm throwing up again or whatever.

It's the fact that I'm sitting here with these three people that I love and know and trust.

And I'm not saying to them what my thing is.

I get that completely because it's the verification.

It's like we live so much in this conflict within ourselves of like.

what is true, what is not true, what is the inside of me, what is the outside of me.

There's never any black and white in like what I'm,

what is a lie between what i'm presenting to the world and what is my internal reality it's there's such a gray swamp of of what is real and what isn't but but then

when you know what is in those rare rare moments like that where you know what is true and you know what's most important and you know what is clear but you're not saying it that is the explosion where you're like oh it it we're in the deep now yes this is yes i remember being on the the couch looking at you like wow

Really?

She couldn't come up with a thing.

Mm-hmm.

I don't even know if you said you were like I I don't know.

I don't

You you just I couldn't do it.

I could not conjure up anything.

Yeah, I that that has never happened before

you know we're we talk we talk a lot

when you

gone talk

yeah you're gone because you weren't bringing you That's why you were gone.

Yes.

It's not that you couldn't access it.

It's because you weren't ready to bring it forward.

Yes.

That is why at the beginning of this, when I was saying there was a level of like pride isn't the right word, but maybe it's relief that I'm talking today is like,

it's the opposite of that moment on the couch.

Like, I don't care.

Fine.

Say I'm crazy, say I failed.

Say I'm relapse.

Say I'm whatever, but don't, but I'm still here.

Whoever that I is is still here and is going to speak.

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So

Katie and

Cam left.

I didn't say anything for the rest of the day.

And then,

I don't know if you remember this, and I'm not going to use any names, but the next morning, you had a friend call you who was in their second day of sobriety.

And

the truth is that I sat there, you were on like speakerphone or something, and I sat there listening to a very early in sobriety person say all the very early in sobriety stuff with all the like hubris of early sobriety and all the like beauty and like

things you can hear them say that they're gonna crash and burn about and like

the

I don't know.

I actually found myself

feeling a little bit judgy and annoyed

by myself doing the dishes, listening,

like

listening to this beautiful human who has just reached out to Abby, who is in their second day of sobriety

and feeling judgy

and

ugh, like jaded, jaded.

And

they hung up, and I put one more glass in the dishwasher and was like, I'm fucked.

I think I said, I think those were my words, babe.

I'm fucked.

You actually said,

I was going to wait until, because the kids were still with us.

They were going to win Craig's house that afternoon.

You said, I was going to wait until the kids went to Craig's, but I'm fucked.

I was like,

okay.

Okay.

And then you just told me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then I told you.

And then you were completely amazing.

I was.

Yes.

Because you were undramatic.

You were unshocked.

You were soft and loving

and huggy.

And there was no flick of terror.

There was no, you're not who you said you were in your face.

It was just like, of course,

and now we will get through this.

So, you were amazing.

And then

we had told the kids we were going to go for a hike that day.

Yeah.

So, here is where I try to explain this thing

about

food and body and eating disorders, and mental health, and mental illness.

So, I have always felt like,

you know, what there's all these science words, and there's depression, and there's anxiety, and there's eating disorders, and there's mental illness, and all this thing.

But, like, the way it manifests inside of me at times is like there is this black hole or like a canyon of murkiness

that

exists inside of me, and I could jump in,

okay?

But like, my job is to stay on the land side

of this manhole or canyon of

swirly, dark energy.

But there is something

seductive about the canyon.

It's not all terror and,

you know, weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It's like

a little bit purple and swirly and sparkly, too.

So it's like, it's like Vegas.

It's not like Vegas at all.

But

Vegas may well be Abby's Canyon.

So let's just, let's just table that for a second.

That's another episode, Abby.

That's the best.

It's like the opposite because Vegas is all like lights and man-made and bullshit.

This is like

spiritual in a weird way.

Okay.

I don't know.

It's not, it's, it's the seductive part.

It might be the internal

tendency to glorify this thing.

Yeah.

I was going to say, your story about it is that it is spiritual.

Right.

Whether that may be true, it may not be true.

But in your story, when you look at the canyon, it is seductive

because it is

maybe a higher or deeper

reality than the actual tangible reality of the shore.

It could be, yes, that, but also it's because

it is so hard

to, and it requires so much work

to stay on the land.

Yes.

It's not being the land is part of its seduction.

Exactly.

It represents not having to work so damn hard, like a succumbing.

So what I'm trying to say is that when

eating food, body stuff

is my way of getting closer to the canyon,

it has nothing fucking to do with eating and food.

Okay.

It's like my friends who are cutters or my friends who all the, all of the different things, those are their ways of inching closer to the canyon.

It has nothing fucking to do with the eating.

So when I get weird about eating in food, and it's like, oh, we'll get a personal trainer.

Or it's like, whoa, let's talk about nutrition.

It's like the equivalent of saying, okay, I have once again set myself on fire.

And someone's saying, well, what we can do to explore that is let's just sit down and talk about pyrotechnics.

Yeah.

Do you, have you taken a fire?

Fire safety class.

Yeah.

Like, it's like,

not, no, that's elementary.

It's like, no, no, no.

Like we're to we want to know like why cosmically am I an arsonist?

It's not like how fire works.

Right.

Okay.

I'm talking about the canyon of

sorrely dark.

I'm not talking about freaking nutrition.

Okay.

So we have to go hiking and I actually decide we're going to do that.

Like we are, there's no point in, we're going to continue

what could be better than going on an easy hike with the family and staying in the light and being outside and all the things.

I wasn't so sure.

I think that you had to convince me that that was okay.

That was going to be okay.

Yes.

Yeah.

So we go

and we're just going to this like place that's 25 minutes away or whatever.

Um

and

On the car ride there,

it was just so interesting because first of all, I was in a bit of trauma because I had just told you.

I had just, it's like

to take yourself out of the secret place to where someone can see it in the light.

It's like there's no turning back.

Now it's real.

It doesn't always feel like it's real when it's inside of you, even though it's happening and you can see yourself throwing up.

It's like, it could still be not real.

So I'm in a bit of trauma.

I think the best way that I can describe this part is that this is when I really feel crazy.

Whatever that means.

So we're driving there.

I noticed that my breathing is so shallow.

I can't take a deep breath.

I'm sitting there in the passenger seat.

Abby's driving.

The kids are in the back.

I think we had the dogs with us.

It was just like utter chaos, like everybody, happy chaos.

And I can't catch a breath.

And I realize it's like I'm being as still as humanly possible and not breathing deeply.

And it's so so interesting because it is the same

way of being that you would be if you were hiding because there was like a killer in the room.

Okay.

So you're like trying not to be found.

It's like

being paralyzed, being not being able to breathe because there's a stalker.

And then you're thinking hard about why you're behaving that way.

And then you realize, oh, no, no, the stalker for you, honey, has always been inside of you.

Like the call.

The call is coming from inside the house.

Yes.

So this is what I'm thinking about.

And then I realize,

I look around, and I think everyone's listening to like Taylor Swift or something.

Like the cognitive dissonance between what's going on inside of me and what's going on outside of me is so, it's like all light and happiness on the outside and the inside is like this swirly thing.

And I realize that I am holding so tightly

to my arm

that

like,

I mean, for sure, I'm bruising myself.

I'm holding so tightly.

You do have a grip.

Like, that's just like a general state.

A wall of bear grip.

Like, sometimes we'll just be holding hands watching TV and I have to actually like move my hand because she's, she's now completed and gotten the grip into a vice grip and my circulation is being cut off.

Like, you have a tendency to just do it.

Would you say that not sometimes, but every time?

Every time.

Every time.

Every time we're holding hands you have to i have to like kind of wiggle and you have to say sorry sorry sorry sorry yeah you don't have to but that's i have a question about that cognitive dissonance so you for the week prior when you were actively purging you did not feel that cognitive dissonance because

And only after you had told Abby you had that cognitive dissonance?

Because theoretically, you could have had that the whole time that you were knew this was happening and the world was just unfolding around you obliviously but it's only after you told abby that you had that

um i just i think it's phases

i think it's like

it's real now it's real now yeah yeah no turning back no turning back no take backs no take backs no take back

exactly

So I've realized that I'm holding myself so tight.

And I remember looking around and they were all dancing.

They were dancing and singing.

And

I'm looking at their hands and their hands are all flailing around.

And my thought was,

it is so beautiful how much they trust gravity.

And then I was like, what the fuck does that mean?

Like, what?

Why don't you try?

Like, I'm holding on in the car.

Like, I am holding so tightly so that I do not fly away.

And these fools are just,

it is as if gravity is real to them.

They do not even have to hold themselves down or in or together.

Yeah.

I'm just telling you what my thoughts were at that time.

Right now, sitting here on this couch, I understand how batshit crazy that sounds.

But in the moment, I was like, wow, look at this magic trick they're all doing.

They're all just

so loose.

So we get to this hike.

We're walking.

It's really, really beautiful.

And we're in Palas Verdes, okay?

And we're going around this cliff

and we come across

this staircase.

Okay.

Do you remember?

I now understand what you're doing.

Do you understand now what was happening to me during that time?

Do you remember how I stopped at that staircase and stared for so long and then walked down it, which I never do.

I'm like the least adventurous person in the world.

I was so, I was like, is she nervous?

Because Chase had walked down there.

I was like, is she nervous that Chase is going to fall?

Like, why is she going down there?

That's so weird.

No, the second I get out of the car to go to a hike, all I'm thinking is like, how long will it be till we get back in this car?

Like, if I don't trust gravity in the car, I'm sure as hell not going to trust it on a cliff.

It's all very precarious.

So

we're on this cliff overlooking the ocean.

And there's this staircase.

And it's.

Wild.

It's the longest staircase in the world.

It goes from the top of this cliff and it's not really, but it looks like it.

Right.

It looks like it.

And it like somehow goes all the way down to the water, but you can only see the top half of it.

You can't see the bottom half of it.

So, and then halfway down, the whole top of the staircase is in the light.

You can see it.

And then there's this platform, this like bigger part

of the staircase.

And then that's all you can see.

So I was like, okay, I have to, first, I have to walk down and get down to that platform.

So

I walk down the staircase and there's that platform.

And then the staircase turns.

And then the rest is just all down to the ocean and it's all dark.

It's out of the sun.

So that's when I walk back up to the top so I can see the whole thing, right?

And I realize

that

platform, which I had to Google because I could not freaking think of what that was actually called in a staircase.

It's called the landing.

I was going to say a landing.

The landing is where I was that day.

Yes, I feel that.

Yes, yes, yes.

The landing is where I still am today.

Yes.

Weeks later.

Okay.

But here's what I'm saying.

The landing

is where you stand

and you can go either way.

You can you look down,

and the down is so seductive

because it's easier

and it looks like it'll take less effort and it's in the dark.

You can get lost in it, nobody can see you, you can just keep descending one step at a time.

Or

you turn and you look up

at that motherfucking staircase again,

right?

Just like one step at a time.

And you think about your freaking poor little legs who have done this so many times.

And you think about like the sun that's so freaking bright and like everyone can see your struggle and it just looks so steep.

And so

for a minute, you just stay on the landing.

And so

that's where I am right now.

I'm on the landing.

And I only know,

which I'm really delighted about, that I'm not going down.

I'm not.

How do you know that?

Because I know myself and I know

what I know about myself is that once I get to the landing, I will not go further.

I trust myself completely to not descend

further when I know where I am.

I trust my weary little legs.

I trust the light.

I trust the climb.

When you were throwing up, were you below the landing in the darkness or on the landing?

I feel confused.

Walking down, right?

I don't know.

I mean, I think this is where metaphor kind of breaks down a bit, Dave.

I don't know exactly where I was fucking

on the staircase.

No, listen, I just want to know because this is

as a

partner.

This is important knowledge.

I mean, the landing is day zero.

Like the landing is when you look at yourself and there are no lies between you and you anymore.

Got it.

Right?

The land doesn't feel like a staircase until the landing.

It feels like a free fall of

nothingness.

It doesn't feel, you're not, you're not deliberately stepping down and down and down.

It only feels like the staircase.

That staircase wouldn't have made any sense to me the day before.

I see.

You have to be on the landing to recognize the landing.

It's like an acknowledgement of

acknowledging it actually forms this staircase.

Yeah.

It's like a forming of it.

That's really interesting.

I mean, a landing

is

a platform

that allows you to change directions

or

allows a climber to rest.

So there's a graciousness of the landing, too.

There's enough space to rest, right?

To like gather your strength up for the climb again.

Wow.

Yeah.

So

that's where I am now.

I'm on the landing.

And

what that means to me in

practical terms is that

there will be a next,

there will be a climb.

There will be, it will probably include therapy and all kinds of different things.

But I will say

that

I have a confidence about me this time.

Like I really do.

I think the climb will be different.

It will feel different.

But

I'm 45 years old and I know myself and I trust myself.

And I also have been through this

enough times

to have a level of curiosity

because

I think what was annoying me about that conversation you were having with that person in their second day of sobriety was that that person sounded the opposite of jaded.

There is an awe,

a beginner's mind that returns to you when you realize that we're all on the fucking landing all the time.

There is

a

returning of awe

when you

start that first step step

that feels a little bit magical,

that isn't as present when you're feeling really big and bad about yourself because you're on step 409,000.

So

I have a positive anticipation

about

the magic that will come as the climb begins again.

And I'm just being super tender and careful and gentle with myself

as I wait on the landing.

And that

is what I wanted to say today.

I think that I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life-changing difference.

That's why I think ALMA is so cool.

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Visit helloalma.com/slash hardthings to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

That's hello A L M A dot com/slash hard things.

And so,

with that,

I just want to say directly to you,

sweet listener,

it is true that we can do hard things

and we will keep doing them together.

See you back here in two days

with more love notes from the landing.

Bye.

I give you Tish Milton and Brandy Carlisle.

I walked through fire, I came out the other side.

I chased desire,

I made sure

I got what's mine.

And I continue

to believe

that I'm the one for me.

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on back.

A final destination

lack.

We've stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a heart again.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the

problem,

sometimes things fall apart.

And I continue to believe

the best

people are free.

And it took some time,

but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

Our final destination

we lack.

We stopped asking directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a hard

thing.

Heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay with that.

Stopped asking directions

in some places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do hard things.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

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