28. LET HER REST: We respond to the Pod Squad’s mind-blowing questions.

Hey, everyone.

I've got to tell you about Viore if you haven't heard of them.

You're missing out.

And we love this stuff.

I've been living in this stuff for years.

I recently got the performance jogger from their Dream Knit collection.

And let me just say, it's hands down the softest, comfiest jogger I've ever worn.

I use them for everything.

Viori is an investment in your happiness.

I promise you.

For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase.

Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at viori.com slash hardthings.

That's vuo r i.com/slash hard things.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S.

orders over $75 and free returns.

Go to viori.com/slash hardthings and discover the versatility of Viori clothing.

Exclusions apply.

Visit the the website for full terms and conditions.

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Well, hi, everybody.

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things.

We have a special episode for you all today.

I don't imagine that maybe there's ever been a situation where a podcast has more

ridiculously amazing voicemails from the pod squad community.

If you all could listen to these questions we have flooding our inbox every week and stories, it's so hilarious, heartbreaking.

It's everything.

And so we decided this week we are going to dedicate two entire episodes to your

questions.

Yeah, it's so thrilling to us because we feel like we're just going to to be hanging out with you all this whole time.

And so, you know, a few reminders.

The tricky part of Q ⁇ As is that we don't have any A's.

Okay.

Like, it is my deep belief that the reason why people ask me for advice so often is because I never give them any.

Right.

Like there's this idea that someone else will have the answers, but really we're each living this completely unprecedented, unrepeatable experiment of a life, right?

Nobody's done it before us.

Nobody will ever do it after us.

Each of us is winging it completely.

And so the only one who ever really has the answers, obviously, is us, right?

So anyway, we have your cues and then we have some responses.

And mostly they're like, we have some stories.

Good call.

That's correct.

Yeah.

Mostly our responses are same.

Yes.

Retweet.

Correct.

So we're excited to jump in.

Let us, you ready, Amanda and Abby, for these beautiful cues?

Let's do it.

Okay, let's hear our first one.

Jodi.

Hi, G and sister.

My name is Jodi.

I'm 53 years old.

Over a year ago, I ended a very toxic 18-year marriage to an addict.

It was my second marriage, and this person was a step-parent to my two older children and we also have two children together.

I've been working hard at healing my relationships with my older children who despise this person and also helping my younger children establish all the good boundaries necessary when you have an addicted parent.

All of that is hard but definitely the right kind of hard.

The hard thing I'm bringing you today is this.

I have been in survival mode for so long that I barely know who I am or what I want this next stage of my life to look like.

like.

So, even though there is tremendous relief with breaking that cycle and saying, not this,

I sort of feel numb.

Like, maybe this goddamn cheetah doesn't have a wild.

Like, if I was Tabitha and they opened the cage, I would just walk out and lay next to it because it's all I know and I'm really tired.

How do I start thriving and living a joyful life that my kids will be proud of and want to emulate instead of just surviving day by day?

Okay, that's it.

That's my heart thing.

Love you both and happy too

oh jodi i want to be does anyone else want to be best friends with jodi i'm jody jodi fully obsessed with jodi jodi wants to know

how

to be a goddamn cheetah

okay

but she's tired right it's jodi saying she's tired because she's been through

the fire several times

carried her children on her back out of the fire,

probably more than once.

And now she's tired.

You know what I started thinking about when I was listening to Jodi is something that

one of my dearest friends in the whole world, Liz Gilbert, said to me recently.

And she was talking about how women are always called to be fierce and tough and brave and cheetah-like.

And like, that's the revolution.

And she was like, you know what I think the revolution is

i think it's a rested woman

where are they

like where are the relaxed rested women that's the revolution to me

and i was thinking about this um the first memory i have of my entire life okay i don't have a lot of early memories but i but I know that this has to be significant because it's the one thing I can remember from being little.

I I remember being in kindergarten.

I remember my teacher, her name was Mrs.

Peacock.

Mrs.

Peacock.

Mrs.

Peacock, remember?

And

I was in my kindergarten classroom and I had crawled underneath a table and closed my eyes and tried to fall asleep in the middle of class.

Okay.

And a bunch of kids circled the table.

and were like poking at me because it's ridiculous, right?

To try to take a nap in the middle of a class.

And Mrs.

Peacock walked over and I heard her feet and I thought she was going to pull me out.

And she said,

she didn't say anything to me.

She said to the other kids, leave her alone.

Let her rest.

And those words, let her rest,

I'm just telling you that it is sear, it was like, to this day, It's the most beautiful thing anyone can say to me.

Like when I go to bed, Abby, in the middle of the day, and I hear you say to the kids, quiet, let her rest.

Okay, so Jodi, what I want to say to you,

hold on a second.

I need to Google something real quick, Jodi.

Oh, okay, Jodi.

Here we go.

How many hours a day does a cheetah sleep?

At least 12, it says.

At least 12.

Cheetahs spend most of their time sleeping.

During the day, they are minimally active.

They prefer shady spots.

Look,

Jodi, if you want to know how you can be a goddamn cheetah at this point in your life, after you have done so many hard things for your children, for yourself,

Jodi, rest.

That's what a cheetah would do right now.

I think we're forgetting.

We just have to get to the point where she's outside of this cage.

And if you find your way outside of any freaking cage,

you get to do whatever the hell you want.

If that is to sit down right next to the cage and use it to hold your back up because your back's tired, do that.

That's right.

If it is to go on a run, if it whatever it is, as long as you are like, you've done the work, you get to do whatever it is that you want jodi you have just gotten yourself free that's right rest jodi rest you said you're tired your body is telling you exactly what a cheetah would do we are animals your body is saying now i fought the fight and now it's time to rest lay down next to that cage let your children see a woman rest That could be the revolution.

I also think that it's, if, if it's rest, it's rest.

But I think it's also like what Jodi is describing as trauma.

She has endured a chronic level stress trauma.

And when you do that,

like your nervous system has these two parts, right?

There's the one that's like the fire flight.

It's a sympathetic nervous system.

And that is the one that's activated during, you know,

places of danger.

It sounds like Jodi has traveled a lot of that.

And then your sympathetic nervous system is the one that kicks in and allows you to actually rest and to recharge yourself.

And

but for a lot of folks, and this could be what's happening to Jodi as to why she feels so exhausted, is that

you're, when you've lived so long with that chronic level of trauma or stress, your nervous system can't continue to respond.

So you either get stuck in the totally on position where your body doesn't know the difference between a perceived threat and an actual threat.

So you're constantly in hyperarousal, like you're up, on, on, on, on, or you're in the off position, meaning that you are like fatigued and you can't, your nervous system is not responding in either way.

And I think that that,

um,

that's something that helped me understand

that I.

I just constantly idle high, high, high, high, high, high alert.

And other people respond other ways.

So I think that it's also good for folks like Jodi to understand that that this isn't a character trait necessarily.

This isn't like, it could be your body responding very, very appropriately

and taking care of itself in a way that was, that allowed you to survive the years of what you've survived and that

maybe paying attention to that and learning how your nervous system can cope with the next part of your life that you've created to be

not have the danger you had in the first part um is an interesting thing to explore because sometimes our bodies are stuck or the inside of our bodies are stuck where our physical bodies are no longer

um and so learning about that sympathetic nervous system would be interesting for jodi

really smart damn i love that i want to learn about it now geez yeah that's good jodi we love you

and don't forget we all want to be badasses badasses for our kids.

Like the best memories I have of childhood are just sitting on a couch and snuggling with my parents.

Like the things that

we think we need to do to impress them.

I don't know.

I just think sometimes

doing nothing and just breathing with your family is the most beautiful thing that we can do.

So Jodi, give yourself a long break.

Let her rest.

And when she awakes,

she will move mountains.

Isn't that a Pinterest thing that I think?

That's for Jody.

That's for Jodi.

Or let her rest.

And when she wakes, she might like

that's better.

I like that one.

That's the poster I want.

All right.

School is officially back in session, and that means yay to routines and boo to homework and test stress.

Whether your student needs to catch up, stay on track, or move ahead, iXL Learning is a smart solution to support learning at home in a way that's low stress and effective.

It's an award-winning online learning platform that helps students truly understand what they're learning.

It covers math, language arts, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade.

and they offer personalized, engaging content that supports real progress.

One subscription covers it all: every subject, every grade, all in one place.

IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S.

Make an impact on your child's learning.

Get IXL now.

And We Can Do Hard Things listeners get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today at ixlearning.com/slash we can.

Visit ixlearning.com/slash we can to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

Okay, let's go to our next queue.

This is Madison.

I would like to say hi, Glennon and sister.

My question is sort of for Abby, and I'm hoping that maybe she can come back on and help me work through this one a little bit.

I am currently in a relationship, a long-term relationship, where my partner has children, And I'm struggling to sort of find what my role in this situation is.

We've been together for over a year and we do lots of things together.

But I find myself kind of always feeling like the thing that doesn't belong or like the awkward buddy of the group and especially with his son.

I really have a desire to be a more supportive and like emotionally involved figure in his life, but I'm not sure how to start to make that transition and help that relationship grow.

So, if Abby or Glennon has any insight into how to start to open up that world and forge that path, I would love to hear it.

Thank you so much.

Madison.

Wow.

Well, I've got a couple of thoughts on this.

First of all,

sweet question.

And the fact that you're asking this question makes me know that there's some real possibility here.

I believe that

we use the word bonus parent, but most of the world uses the word step-parent phrase.

It's one of the most selfless.

acts of love when you find yourself in a step-parenting role because there are all of these confusing dynamics at play.

How old were the children when you came into the family?

How was that marriage before you came into the family?

How was the divorce?

There's so many things that

differentiate each situation that my experience is going to be different than yours, of course.

But one thing that I know

really did help me was having a partner in Glennon

who was and is capable of wanting to have the conversations around

what my desires are and what her desires are.

So here Glennon was with three children and Craig, by the way, having

the co-parenting trio that we have makes things in so many ways

so, so beautiful and so much easier for the person like me stepping in.

But Glennon had been raising these children and Craig had been raising these these children

in many ways, I think in hindsight,

to accept somebody like me on some level, on some deep, deep level.

And let me tell you, it wasn't easy.

Like when I first got to the family, Tish and Chase and Emma,

they were, of course, sad about their family being now different,

about this new person walking in the door.

but i had to look at it from their perspective like if you really want to have a relationship with this this son this son of your of your partners um

you do kind of have to take some of the arrows or some of the

uh frustration or fear or anger on some level imagine being these children

and imagine their life being flipped upside down and then and then go about trying to heal it.

Like be

capable and present enough to understand that if you do want what's best for these kids,

it is a balancing act, like of, of how much do I put myself out there?

And like, quite frankly, step parenting, you're always putting yourself out there.

And you're never going to get like, I mean, you might never ever get the credit, you know, like I have had to come to accept that, like, our kids will probably never call me mom.

They call me Abby.

But like when they're out in the world with their friends, I actually just heard recently that they do call me mom to like to out their world.

And I just like, I about died.

I about fell over when I heard this news.

And so, Madison, I know this is a long and not helpful answer, probably on any level, but Glennon really did help me.

I would say talk to your partner

and tell them about your dreams for the way that you want to interact with their child, with this, with this child, and how, what kind of a relationship do you want so that you can be both in it together, that you're not feeling like, you know, because part of the responsibility of this partner is to make sure that the path that they are allowing you to walk isn't riddled with fires along the way.

You know, like that you, that you have a clear pathway to be able to, and it's then up to you, right?

So have the conversation with your partner and then figure out what this child loves and help create environments that this little kid can go out and express this love.

And then the more you get to see this kid experience the joy of life,

they will start turning back to you.

They will start looking to you to make sure that you're watching.

That's good, Abby.

It's really good.

That's all I got.

That's enough, right?

That's all I got to say.

That's enough.

But also, I'll just say this.

there is nothing more rewarding

in my life, nothing that I have ever been able to accomplish in my life than

being able to know that my children love me.

Like, there's also like you, you

being the biological parent and Craig being the biological parent, there is a level of openness to both of you that has allowed me to come into this situation.

So, I think that

you allowing me to feel like I have an entitlement to this mother claim, like that is a big part of why I've been able to actually feel like these children's mother on some level.

That's why I think it's so brilliant that you mentioned to Madison that one of the most important things to do is talk this to death with your partner because

the two partners set the stage for the bonus parent's success or failure, right?

It's aligning those intentions, letting, I mean, for the biological parent, letting go of some of that gatekeeping of like, but I don't know, there's like something we,

it's a process for us too,

to say,

energetically allow permission in each

to change dynamics, to change patterns, to all that stuff necessarily happens when you really and truly fully let another grown-up human being into your family dynamic.

And if you're holding, if the OG parent is holding too tight to old patterns, to old dynamics, which is understandable when families change, you hold on to something, that creates

kind of sets the stage for failure for the new person.

So I think it just, I love the opening the conversation constantly and being super honest with the other partner and and being in it together.

Because I think sometimes it's set up as, oh, how do I, I, the bonus parent, fix this relationship with the child?

And that's too much for the bonus parent.

That's not, it's directionally incorrect.

Like, this is the struggle, the work should be with the two

adults

setting up the stage for success for the kid.

That's right.

So good.

All right.

My name is Katie.

I would like to ask,

how

after

being in a relationship with infidelity and moving on to being with Abby, how do you trust?

How do you trust that she is going to hold your heart safely?

Even when she says all of the right things and does all the right actions, how do you know?

And that's my question.

I love you guys.

Thanks.

Bye.

I can't wait to hear this answer.

How do you know, Glennon?

I love so much listening to these questions.

And then, my brain, all it does, because I don't live in the real world, I live in the imaginary world.

I just need you to know that every single one of these callers has an entire backstory in my brain immediately.

The things I have created for Katie in the last 45 seconds about Katie's life.

Okay.

I

want to say a couple of things about this trust issue.

I think that we were just talking about this, Abby, this weekend.

We were just talking about trust

and

how

most of my life,

especially the second half of my life, is about

trying to figure out how I can trust the universe a little bit more, like how I can just relax and stop being so anxious and suspicious and certain everyone's going to screw me over constantly.

And

some of that came when I met you, Abby, and you

live differently than that.

You generally feel like people are doing the best they can and that they can,

that we can trust people and that things will work out, which is just a batshit crazy way to live, right?

Things don't work themselves out.

I work them out.

And if I don't work them out, they fall apart, right?

So this is the general way I live, which is why I'm sweating constantly.

One thing I want to say to Katie, I just want to directly answer her question about love, first of all.

This is, and probably not,

Abby, exactly what you want to hear, but the truth of this matter is that

I don't know much for sure.

If I had to bet

my life on whether like Abby was going to betray me at some point or break my trust or something.

I would at this point bet my life that she wouldn't.

Okay.

That she would never betray me, that she would never

break my trust.

But Katie, I'm also going to tell you that life has surprised the shit out of me many times.

Right.

Like there have been things before in my life that I would have bet my life upon that in fact I would have lost the bet in the long run.

Okay.

So

what I do know, Katie, is that I'm pretty sure that Abby's not going to betray my trust.

And I've never met anyone in my entire life that has earned my trust more than Abby.

But that at the end of the day is not what I hang my hat on.

Okay.

What I do know about my life and about you, Katie, since you actually were, you know, cognizant and alive and vertical enough to make this call is that no matter what has happened to me in my life and how many times I have been betrayed or how many times I have been gobsmacked by people or life, I survived.

What I know about myself is that I have become a 45-year-old woman who is no longer afraid of fires in her life.

Because I have proven to myself over the past few decades that I am fireproof, that no matter what

happens,

I will survive.

So

my

peace, Katie, and I hope your peace is not,

it's not dependent upon what Abby does or does not do.

My peace is fully dependent on my track record.

that

it all, I know that it can all fall apart and that I will,

it won't be pretty.

It doesn't have to be, but I will remain standing.

Goodbye, Katie.

So our dogs, Honey and Hattie, are sweet, spoiled, and insanely picky when it comes to food.

We've tried all kinds of brands over the years.

Some would get a sniff and then completely ignored.

Others, maybe once and never again.

But Ollie, it's a total game changer.

Ollie delivers clean, fresh meals made with human-grade ingredients.

No fillers, no preservatives, just real food.

And the flavors?

Things like fresh beef with sweet potatoes or fresh turkey with blueberries.

I've caught myself thinking, this dog eats better than I do.

Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food.

Head to ollie.com slash hardthings.

Tell them all about your dog and use code hardthings to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today.

Plus, they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box.

So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

That's ollie.com slash hardthings and enter code hardthings to get 60%

off your first box.

Hi, Glennon.

I have followed you for many years and I love your work, Glennon, and thank you for the contribution you're making to so many people.

I'm a parent and a sister to queer folk and I loved and cried through your podcast episode Queer Freedom.

However, I have a contention with one small part of it.

You said that you can't say you love someone and then make choices that show hate to them.

I have a different opinion.

I was in the evangelical church for many years believing the party line that being gay is a sin.

I have since left that church and now see the deep damage I caused.

I hurt my gay family members with my conservative beliefs and choices, but I did still love them.

And in your book, you said that your family did not feel loved by you when you were deep in your addiction.

By the same logic, one could say, since you made hurtful choices towards your family, that you didn't love them.

But I know you did love them.

It was just mucked up.

So, my question to you is: if you could still love and do harm when you were an addict, can't someone with misguided religious beliefs love and do harm?

Please let me know your thoughts.

Sincerely, Helen.

Good luck with your podcast and thanks for all you do again.

Helen.

See, this is the problem with having super smart

people in your community.

Like, this is constantly the problem is that they are asking very tough questions about things that you may or may have not said.

And with such grace.

So I love

such beauty and grace.

I mean, I want to do a whole episode on ways to, that, that, on criticism and questioning and ways to do it where that makes the other person want to engage and ways to do anyway.

Helen is a really beautiful example of offering

dissent in a way that invites more ideas instead of shutting down.

So

I think that I guess I want to hear every, there's going to be a million.

There's no answer to this question.

There's just ideas and responses.

The question being, you know can you love someone and you know can you love a queer person but also

judge them for their queerness i guess can we love and and judge or love and reject at the same time

what i would say first is that we all have to decide for ourselves what the word love means

right

so if you mean

can I have warm feelings about someone

and then also have a dogma that rejects

their identity?

I guess, like, I can't tell you that you can't have both of those things at the same time.

But that's not what love means to me.

Love is something that's very specific.

There's no such, I don't, I don't do cheap love.

Like, I don't believe that love is just a warm feeling that I have.

So I can say, oh, I love her, but I just, you know, I disagree with her family and her being and her identity.

And I think God's going to send her to hell.

Like, no, no, no, no.

And, and I, and I, to me, love has to do with a fierce celebration of what a person is.

And, and so my, I'm sorry, Helen, but I would stick with my, when you're saying, could I, I said, I loved my family when I was an addict, but I was hurting them.

I think the question would have been to ask my parents, do you feel loved by Glennon?

And I think that, Helen, the question would be for you to ask your queer family when you were in the evangelical church, did they feel loved by you?

You may have thought, I'm loving them, but in the end, does that matter?

Does our intention mean shit

if the impact is pain and rejection?

Misa, oh, but I loved my family when I was drunk and ruining their lives all the time.

Like,

so what?

What does that mean?

I had warm feelings for them while I was actively hurting them.

Love is as love does.

Love is as love is received.

Love is as love

feels.

To me, the question about whether we are loving should be asked, should be asked of the receiver,

right?

So I think that while I love you, Helen, deeply,

I think the question is, the answer for me is a big no.

I don't think that,

you know, I think about the definition of things a lot.

I think we all just have to decide what love means to us and then we can answer that question for ourselves.

You know, Abby and I had to spend a lot of time figuring out what a friend is

because,

you know, can we be friends?

We had the situation

where we had friends who we enjoyed being with.

But we knew that those friends were also people who were actively voting and rallying against our family's rights and well-being.

And it was very confusing to us because we felt like the culture was suggesting to us that, well, you can be friends and disagree.

But that felt bad to us.

And so we decided, actually, no, that can be something else, but a friend to us.

We don't believe in the word friend as anyone other than somebody who would stand with us when they're standing right in front of us and somebody who would stand with us when we can't see them in a voting booth or whatever.

So, I just guess we all have to decide what the word love and friend means to us and answer that question.

And I think it might be, it's interesting because I think what Helen's trying to get to is like, I felt

a deep and real love for them.

So, what we're not saying to her is that that love wasn't real.

Like, what we're saying is that when there's a barrier between

the deep real love you feel, your intention,

and your, and deep, real love being received as an impact,

often there is a barrier there that is preventing it from being transmitted, right?

So in Glennon's case, that was her addiction, that that was a wall that real love went in, but real love did not come through.

And

that

in the evangelical party line, you, Helen, might have been giving forth all of your love, right?

But this evangelical barrier of a belief that that had to sift through

was not allowing it to be received as real, true love on the other side.

So I think that's another way to think of intention versus impact: is

there a is there a barrier?

Is there a boundary?

Is there a wall between the love that I'm sending out that

perverts that love, that changes that love to make it not be received?

Because it doesn't mean it was invalid on either side.

It means there is something that you haven't done the work to deconstruct to allow your love to be received as real and true.

And the only way to find that out, too, is to ask.

the people who you think you're loving, right?

Because

as you said, sister, it can be very real for you when you're offering it, you're not a good judge of that.

Like, I know for me, I don't want to just insist that I'm loving my children well.

Like, I want to know from them,

are you receiving it as the love that you need?

That's all that matters.

I love the idea of not thinking of love as something that we offer our way.

And that's it.

We're loving.

Like, it's like love is a verb.

Love is, is, is personalized.

Love is specific to people.

It's like when you feed people,

you don't feed everybody the exact same thing in the exact same way and expect everybody to be satisfied.

Like, people are different.

And

I just, I, I really like the idea of

considering the success or the power of your love as judged by the beloved.

Yeah.

I mean,

for I'm listening to this, and I don't feel like I fit into either of those neat categories you've already discussed, but I'm immediately thinking of

the way I love my kids and the barriers between the outrageously real love that I have for them and how it's received.

You know, if it's through the barrier of judgment or if it's through the barrier of expectations, how is all of that energy that I'm pouring out that I believe is coming full throttle at love?

How is it

being received?

You know?

Yes.

And like, I think it's a brilliant

way to think about it with kids.

I mean, I was sitting, I have this one child who

loving her just looks way different than loving anybody else in my life.

And I was sitting on a couch the other day.

What she really, I wanted to talk about all of these different things.

What she really wanted to do was describe in minute by minute detail to me the last horror movie she watched.

Okay.

She's like super, super into horror movies.

And please understand, like, think about anything I'd rather not.

I hate everything about this situation.

I'm in a hostage situation with a child who's,

but that is how she feels loved by me.

And, and, and what I wanted to say is, dear God, can we talk about your life?

Can we talk about like what's going on?

Literally anything other than this.

Literally anything other.

I want to pull the fire alarm again.

Like,

and then, and then, and then, and then.

But that, I guarantee at the end of that, she felt closer to me.

And I just don't get to choose.

Let's move on to the next one.

Hi, Glennon.

Hi, sister.

Hi, Abby.

My name's Annie, and I was calling because I just finished listening to your sex episode.

I'm sorry, I'm emotional right now.

I'm not sorry, I'm emotional right now.

And I just wanted to sincerely thank sister for the honest conversation,

especially about when your partner doesn't want to have sex with you.

Just for some background,

my husband had an affair about two years ago.

And immediately after we had a lot of sex.

And then about

a year and a half ago, it abruptly stopped.

A lot of it is related to some mental health struggles that he's been having.

And rationally, I know that,

but it still

really, really hurts.

So

I just wanted to thank sister for bringing that up.

It was so validating to hear that.

And I just want people to know that that they are not alone in it.

So thank you.

Love you guys.

Looking forward to the next episode.

Bye.

Annie.

So, yo, we,

this is one of hundreds.

Annie, thank you for leaving that message.

And I just want to say to Annie that

your message is one of hundreds of messages and emails

that we received with a story very, very similar to yours and to mine.

And

I think that this is something that

given the

response of people that

A, is happening

so much.

so frequently and B that people are not talking about.

Can you give some context, sister?

Oh, yes.

So, what I was because I just want people to remember about that.

So, basically, what I was saying in the sex episode is: we were talking a lot about how, you know, in heteronormative relationships, it's the conversations very often revolve around, oh my gosh, my husband always wants to have sex with me, and how do I deal with it?

And I never want to, and it's so, it's such a chore.

And

I know that struggle in my current marriage, marriage.

So I want to say that clearly.

But I also

know the opposite struggle in my prior marriage where

I was not desired and

basically

just kind of deserted sexually.

So I, and that is something that

rarely, if ever,

do people talk about it.

And more so than not talk about it.

I feel like women are often discussing the opposite problem.

And so you feel like a real outcast and

odd in your own relationship, and then an outcast and odd in the social dynamics where people are discussing their sex problems.

So I think that what we do know is that hundreds of people responded exactly like Annie.

And we also know that, you know, statistically, 20% of couples are

in sexless marriages, and we don't know,

you know, who

is

kind of

the one who is experiencing that as abandonment in those relationships, but it is very,

very frequent.

And

so, thank you, Annie, for bringing it up.

And I just think that a lot more people are having this issue than are talking about this.

Yeah.

And Sissy, I just want to say thank you to you you because what i want everybody listening to know is that we actually recorded that whole episode without that part

and amanda listened to the whole thing and said hold on

i am listening to this thinking about all of the women for whom this is going to be a painful conversation because we haven't addressed this other part and i need i have experienced it and for them i need to get on and we need to record this new part and i just love that so much and it just, I'm grateful to you, sister, for working so hard to make sure that we're all seen.

It was brave.

I love you.

I love you too.

Beautiful.

How would you like to feel calmer, think clearer, and sleep better all in just two minutes?

Meet TrueVega Plus, a handheld device that uses gentle vagus nerve stimulation to help calm calm your body's stress response.

In just two minutes a session, TrueVega helps shift you out of fight or flight and into a more relaxed, balanced state.

By naturally supporting your body's nervous system, you can quiet mental chatter, ease anxious feelings, and promote deeper, more restful sleep.

So you wake up feeling refreshed and clear-headed.

There are no pills, no side effects, just safe, clinically backed technology developed from decades of neuromodulation research.

Ready to try it out?

Visit truevega.com and use code WCDHT25 at checkout to receive $25 off your purchase.

Take action today and upgrade to feeling better every day with TrueVega.

Visit truevega.com and use my code WCDHT25 to receive $25 off your purchase.

Feel calmer and sleep better with TrueVega.

Okay, next, please.

Hi, G.

my name is Ellen, and I work with young people.

And many of the youth I work with are exploring their identity, sexuality, and gender expression.

I recently spoke with someone who told me that these people should accept reality and stop joining others in trendy things like being non-binary or gender fluid.

I believe that it is the youth who will help us expand our definitions of gender, sexuality, and self.

I love your fierce acceptance and was just wondering what your thoughts are on this topic and how we can go about changing the world instead of putting our youth into boxes they may not fit in.

Thanks so much.

I love your podcast.

Bye.

Sister, what are we going to do with all these trendy, non-binary folks?

We're just jumping on the gender bandwidth.

So trendy.

Like it's like a false eyelashes or like

cool headsets.

It's so cool and easy to be gender non-binary.

Okay, so this is so fun.

You know, my idea of fun is things like this.

So

will you jump on the train with me?

Because

let's go.

Okay, chew.

So

this, okay, we talked a little bit about this on the first

episode on Tuesday, but I think we just need to talk about this because this idea of trendy suggests new

and different than what always has been.

And I think it's just really

important contextually to understand that we literally lived in a pre-sexual orientation world

for all

time until about 160 years ago.

So like trendy is sexual orientation, not

for men.

So, and we also think of heterosexuality as being an always like given normal default

status and that queerness being somehow new or abnormal.

But actually, they were created, created, as we talked about at the very, at the exact same moment.

It was in the 1860s.

It was a legal concept in an article protesting German sodomy laws.

So those were invented at the very same time.

But

because we had a very strong need to establish and defend normalcy at the time, it was a very strong priority because it was the rise of the middle class.

So all of our social institutions, government bureaucracy, police force, all of that, there was a new economic social dominance of middle class, which had a vested interest in defending this idea of normalcy in themselves.

Okay.

So, in opposition to that, power grew out of

normalcy as being heterosexuality, and that was left alone, only defined as normal.

heterosexuality became this physiosocial disposition.

So it's that became deviant,

abnormal, broken.

And then that

homosexuality.

So that became a personhood, an identity, whereas heterosexuality was left alone normal.

All of these,

what was formerly just something people did became something people are.

So, and that all happened very, very quickly.

Now, the labeling that everyone is viewing as trendy now arose out of

queer people's response to this definition from outside of themselves.

So they urge this new self-definition, and now we have the articulation of all these sexual identities, which is at one point, like a very good thing, right?

Because people find community, describe their identity, find their people that they want to be in relationship with, all of that.

It's very good.

But to Ellen,

I say,

all the folks that you're talking to, we have too many trendy definitions of sexual orientation.

It just blows my mind mind because I'm like, how do we,

how do we have damn near enough?

We don't have enough.

We have infinite, okay, infinite human possibilities

of desire.

That's right.

As number of people that we have is the, um, is the amount of possibilities of desire that we have in the world.

And at the highest,

highest count, we have 21 orientations to organize, to organize all the people.

All the people.

And sister, can we talk about how ridiculous it is in the first place to like make categories for people based on what they prefer?

Like, why do we choose sexuality?

Why don't we just choose colors?

Well, we do that too.

We do that.

We're all the people that prefer purple.

You're stuck with that forever.

We're all the people that prefer blue the most.

You're stuck with that forever.

Like,

it's so strange.

Well, it's not strange because it's bait because the people who have the power to just to define what is normal and abnormal get to use that.

It's not arbitrary.

It's not arbitrary like color.

No, it's not arbitrary.

It's strange but not strange but not arbitrary.

But this is my question.

It's like

if

so a recent UK poll found that fewer than half of 19 to 24 year olds define themselves as 100% heterosexual.

Okay.

And that is not because

they

had

like engaged in queerness.

They hadn't physically acted upon that, but it was that they didn't need to cling to this idea of heterosexuality as their barometer of normalcy.

It's like, not only do those categories fail

to fit who we are as individual people.

And, you know, they inevitably require leaving some of ourselves at the door as we try to fit ourselves into these boxes but it also feels like have we not outlasted the need to reinforce normalcy i i feel like

the way that i see this generation is not like getting on a trend the way that i see this generation is pointing out the emperor has no clothes that's right Like the way that I see this generation is that

they

understand

that we've made all this shit up.

Yep.

That if all of these categories are arbitrary and all of these identities and even gender is horseshit, right?

It's just completely arbitrary and made up.

It's they're performances, mandatory performances that somebody gives us.

These kids, many of them are saying, we don't want to perform.

That's right.

We're not going to perform the roles that you are giving us anymore.

I think, first of all, we're just trying to to get back.

The new generation is just trying to get back to the 1860s before all of us adults fucked it all up.

They're so good-fashioned.

And then,

what I would also say, Ellen, is those who are coming to you with some of this

nine-binary, it's just laziness.

People don't want to change.

People don't want to have to learn something new.

People feel just like exhausted.

And like, we're not going to like, let them be lazy.

We have an answer to the laziness.

We can just get rid of all of them.

It's like, it's like when James called,

they asked him, What do you think gay people will be like in the future?

And he said, No one will have to answer that question because it answers a false argument.

It's it's right, it's the wrong question, right?

So, let's just, hey, lazy people, we're with you.

This is so trendy this past 160 years.

We're just gonna get rid of it and let people be themselves.

So, that's right.

You can't, you can't do hard.

You can't do hard thing.

Let's get the clip.

Y'all, we got to wrap this up, and we got to go to the pod squatter.

Woohoo!

This is Mirror calling from the South.

Lennon, Amanda, and Abby, I love this podcast.

If I had a vote, I would vote on having it own five times a week.

This country is in a mess, and that's because we've never talked about.

hard things.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s where nothing was discussed.

The elephants were all over the room.

And now those of us who are in our 60s and 70s are having to still figure out the things that happened to us that we weren't ever able to talk about.

So don't let anybody sway you from your path.

You just keep talking about hard things.

I love you.

I think you folks are hilarious.

I am a sporty spice, and I just, I love everything that y'all talk about, even though sometimes it is hard to hear.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Meredith.

Oh.

Meredith.

Meredith.

Meredith calling from the south.

Don't you just wish that you could call Meredith?

I want Meredith to call.

I want that pep talk every day.

Meredith, you can do her things like leave a message for us every day, please.

Every day, Meredith.

No pressure.

Five times a week, Meredith.

That's what we want.

Meredith, I just want to say thank you.

Okay,

to all of you, I mean, clearly, mostly to Meredith, but also to all of you, we

love you.

Seriously, these we could listen to your voicemails and your stories and your questions all day, and we will.

We will listen to them forever.

Thank you for listening to us.

We will keep listening to you.

Together, we can do hard things, and we'll see you soon.

I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlisle.

I walked through fire, I came out the other side.

I chased desire,

I made sure I got what's mine.

And I continue

to believe

that I'm the one for me.

And because I'm mine,

I walk the line.

Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map.

A final destination.

We've stopped asking directions

to places places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives bring,

we can do a heart again.

I hit rock bottom, it felt like a brand new start.

I'm not the problem,

sometimes things fall apart.

And I continue

to believe

the best

people are free,

and it took some time,

but I'm finally fine.

Cause we're adventurers, and heartbreaks are map.

A final destination

directions

to places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do a hard pain.

We're adventurers and heartbreaks on that.

We might get lost, but we're okay.

We've stopped asking directions

in some places they've never been.

And to be loved, we need to be known.

We'll finally find our way back home.

And through the joy and pain

that our lives

bring,

we can do hard

things.

Yeah, we can do hard things.

Yeah, we

can do hard

things.

We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 Studios.

Be sure to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Especially be sure to rate and review the podcast if you really liked it.

If you didn't, don't worry about it.

It's fine.