Undetermined — Libby Caswell E2

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I couldn't even believe it was real.

Join me, Tatiana Siegel, executive editor of film and media at Variety, for a four-part tale of youthful ambition, artistic integrity, and the dark side of fame.

Just like my parents talk about they knew where they were when John F.

Kennedy was killed.

Pretty much everyone I know knows exactly where they were when River died.

Featuring new interviews with Samantha Mathis, Dr.

Drew Pinski, Corey Feldman, and more.

Listen to Variety Confidential on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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This is an iHeart Original.

This story can be hard to hear.

There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but we think it's important not to gloss over the reality of what happened to Libby Caswell.

Please take care while listening.

I'm holding in my hands a green spiral notebook that Libby used to document the last few months of her life.

I got it from her mom Cindy who found it in the trunk of Libby's car after her death.

Thumbing through the notebook, a lot of the pages are filled with basic adulting stuff, detailed grocery lists, appointment reminders.

Libby was due for an oil change, and from what I can make of her notes, she either was planning to or had already gone to a clinic to get the depot shot, a form of birth control.

Cindy told me Christmas was Libby's favorite holiday, and in the notebook, it's obvious.

Her shopping list for Xavier, who was four, spread out over a number of pages.

On one page, a toy car, Air Jordans, a swing set.

On another, fidget toys, chocolate peeps, Superman pajamas.

Libby decorated these lists with sketches of Christmas trees surrounded by presents and snowmen.

It's unclear if she ever bought any of these gifts.

She died on December 11th, 2017.

Paging through Libby's notebook, I stumbled on a date written out in cursive, March 19th.

I realized I'd seen it a few times before on Libby's Facebook page, shortened to 319.

When I asked Cindy about this, she told me it was the anniversary of Libby's first date with her boyfriend Devin.

They went with his family and they had a really nice blue minivan.

First they went to eat and then they went and seen a movie.

And I don't remember the movie.

I think we went to see where the wild things are.

That's Jamie, Devin's stepmom.

We were howling like the wild things do at the end of the movie in the theater.

And I remember Devin being so embarrassed.

I remember him telling me and Charlie in his act who he was going to marry at 14 years old.

And we were like,

you you know you're so young and da da da you have so much to go through and you know then it all started that first date libby and devin were only freshmen in high school for the next six years the number 319 took on an almost sacred significance to libby who scrawled it everywhere like an incantation

She would do doodles, you know, of 319.11,

Devin and Libby.

Devin loves Libby, Libby loves Devin.

So why does she mind?

She was totally infatuated, however you want to say it, totally wrapped up in it.

The number 319 has an entirely different connotation to Cindy now.

One very far removed from those early idyllic feelings of obsession and puppy love.

Because now, that number is inextricably linked with the room where police found Libby's body.

The room at the sports stadium in.

I didn't know anything about the room until we received our first reports.

And then when I saw that, that's when I was like, oh my god, it was...

It was room 319.

Maybe Devin rented that room.

They They specifically asked for that room because of something.

Maybe it was random and they just got that room.

You know, I wanted to know.

Watching the water,

the rise.

While I sink tonight.

From iHeart Podcasts, I'm Melissa Geltson, and this is what happened to Libby Caswell.

His first inclination was that it was homicide.

He was crying and upset.

And I was like, man, what happened?

They asked me my name.

And was I Cindy Caswell?

And it took him a minute to get it out of and he said my wife hung herself.

And my heart just kind of froze.

Watching the water,

the ray

of sinking again

Chapter 2 Undetermined

Devin, I'm Detective Shedley.

Police Department.

You got your cell phone on, yeah?

Yeah.

Okay.

I want you to let the detectives have in.

Okay.

We'll get department.

On the evening of December 11th, 2017, three hours after calling 911 to report Libby's death and then leaving the scene, Devin Martin arrives at the Independence Police Department in Libby's car.

When he enters the station, he's taken into a small drab room to make a formal statement.

Although he comes in voluntarily, he's immediately arrested on a handful of outstanding traffic tickets and read his rights.

You have a right to remain silent.

Anything you say cannot be used against a court of law.

You have the right to talk to an attorney before we question you and have him or her presently.

I obtained a video of Devin's interview with IPD through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The original tape is around 55 minutes long, but for length and clarity purposes, I'm using just parts of it and playing some of it out of order.

In the grainy footage, Devin looks upset.

He's sweating, jittery, and doesn't seem to know what to do with his hands.

He thrusts them into the front pocket of his hoodie.

He rubs his face.

Let's start from the beginning, okay?

Like I said, I want you to be detailed, I want you to be honest, okay?

Because, I mean, we are, this is a death investigation.

So

take death investigations very seriously, okay?

And what I need out of you is to need honesty.

Detective Steve Schmidley had been at the motel earlier in the night investigating the scene when Devin called 911 for the second time to say he had talked to police.

So Schmidley headed back to the station to interview him.

And here he refers to Libby by her full name, Elizabeth Caswell.

Who's Elizabeth Caswell to you?

Your son's mother?

Yeah.

We were actually

planning to get married and worked.

Devin's voice is soft, like he's on the verge of tears.

It's a little hard to understand what he's saying.

But he tells the detective he and Libby have a child together, and they were going to get married in three months' time.

When you guys get

when you check into this motel, okay, so we set up at 6.30.

When?

Devin tells Detective Schmidley that he arrived at the sports stadium in early that morning.

He was with Libby and another friend of theirs, Nick, and they were driving in Libby's car, a Black Ford fusion.

Some of this, like what time they checked in, police already know from accessing motel records.

But establishing a timeline of events that day is critical as police aren't sure exactly when Libby died.

There is an almost 14-hour period of time between when the three friends arrived at the motel that morning and when Devin called 911 that evening that is unknown to police.

You get there this morning.

What do you guys do most of the day?

Okay, so my friend Nick hung out with us until about maybe

nine o'clock in the morning, 8.30.

And we left and I took a shower, and I get out of the shower, and she said she was going to take a shower.

And I remember, because we had been up all night, the night before, and

I remember laying on the bed and passing out, but fell asleep.

And

I probably woke up, and it was

probably around 8:30, I think.

Roughly, what time do you think you fell asleep on the bed?

I would say between 10 and 11 o'clock.

10 a.m.

and 11 a.m.

this morning?

And then at that point, you remained asleep

the entire time until you woke up this evening?

Yes, sir.

Devin says he was asleep for more than eight hours.

And when he woke up, he noticed Slippy wasn't around.

And I remember looking, she wasn't in the room, so I went to check the bathroom and my belt,

the top of it, I could see my belt sticking out of the top of the door.

And when I opened the door, she fell forward.

And

I picked her up,

her skin was so pale, and her lips were blue.

I'm sorry, man.

That's okay.

I'm sorry.

Oh, I can't believe this movie.

This is real.

Devin gets emotional here.

He's just told Schmidley that he woke up, looked around for Libby, and saw his belt peeking out from the top of the closed bathroom door.

When he opened the door, Libby's body fell to the ground.

The detective leans back, taking it all in, then starts to recap.

But Devin interrupts to tell him about something else that happened right before he went to sleep.

You got in the shower, and you went to bed.

We had the argument about my drug use.

That's what we got to do about.

That was this morning before you went to bed?

Yeah, right after I got out of the shower.

This is information that IPD had already gathered.

One of the cops spoke to a guest staying in the room next door who heard a loud argument between a man and a woman.

According to Devin, their fight was over his continued use of methamphetamine.

Drugs were a constant source of tension between the couple.

Schmidley doesn't seem very surprised to learn about Devin's drug use, and it's likely this was a pretty familiar story to him.

Independence, Missouri has a long history with meth, which I'll get into later.

And the Sports Stadium Inn, it's not a particularly nice place to stay.

In the year leading up to Libby's death, IPD had been called there more than 150 times for theft, assault, and incidents involving drugs.

Schmidley himself had responded on a handful of occasions.

The detective doesn't linger on Devin's drug use, but before he can get to his next question, Devin pivots again and offers some more unprompted information about Libby and her mental state.

I didn't think she would ever do it, you know.

She was talking about killing herself the day before, but it was like

she bullshit a lot of times when she says that, you know, I don't.

So she talked about killing herself the day before?

Yeah, yes, sir.

Why?

Just because our situation, she was fed up with...

We have lost custody of our son, actually, the state has custody of him.

but he presides with her mother, and we were going to get everything straight.

Not stifled.

The custody situation with their son was complicated, and I'll get to it later.

But the picture Devin paints of Libby is of a depressed mother forcibly separated from her son and frustrated by her boyfriend's drug problem.

Devin's story provides a reason why Libby might have taken her own life.

Then he offers up his own theory for how she did it.

Remember, Devin never says he actually saw Libby hanging because the bathroom door was closed, but he tells the detective that he thinks his belt was too long to have kept her feet off the ground.

I'm really trying to understand it all because she, there's no way she could have hurt herself from the door, you know?

Like, how could she have hung there if my belt's long?

How could her feet have not been on the ground?

It's an odd fact.

I've puzzled over it too.

But Devin had an answer for Detective Schmidley.

So I've been sitting trying to think,

how could it have happened?

I'm thinking maybe she

put it in the door and like choked until she passed out because when I opened the door, she fell forward.

Devin later tells the detective this is something he'd seen Libby do before.

put a belt around her neck and pretend like she was strangling herself.

I mean, when we were younger, and stuff, she would act like, you know, when you get an argument or something, she would act like she's choking herself with a belt, actually.

Detective Schmidley asked Steven what he did after he found Lippy's body.

I grabbed her.

I didn't notice the belt was around her neck until after I pulled her toward me, and she was so stiff.

Her body was so stiff.

I'm sorry.

No, you're fine.

You're fine.

So, my poor baby.

Mom.

Oh, man.

So, what did you do at that point?

Once you freak out.

Obviously, you assume.

Okay, they freaked out.

I thought she, I mean, I assumed she was dead.

I tried to undo the belt a little bit to where I could feel a pulse or something, and I think I was just shaking too much.

I couldn't feel a pulse.

And

so I called 9 in the morning.

I went in the shot.

And I got in the car with my dad.

Devin's explanation, he was in shock, so he drove to his dad's.

It might sound bizarre, but in my experience as a journalist covering traumatic events, people can act in all kinds of unexpected ways.

You don't really know how you'll respond to a tragedy until it happens to you.

You may think you'll be calm, act rationally, but when was the last time you found a dead body?

Schmidley, in any case, seems to listen to this story without much judgment.

He doesn't question Devin's decision to run or express much curiosity about where he went.

He notes it and moves on.

But there's another detective in the room who, up until now, has just been listening.

And he's more skeptical.

Do you see how this looks suspicious, Devin?

Despite you, yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here.

That's why I'm here, you know?

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Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing.

The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Check out washable sofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anibay sofa, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee.

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your drive powers your day now let it power change in your community too and when it comes to helping children in the bay area shell can keep your kindness rolling when you fill up at the purple giving pump at shell a portion of your purchase is donated to charities like the california fire foundation download the shell app to find your nearest giving pump less than two miles away because giving back doesn't cost you extra from september 1st to october 31st participating shell stations will donate a minimum of one cent per gallon of the fuel pump from the giving pump or a minimum donation of $300.

I couldn't even believe it was real.

Join me, Tatiana Siegel, executive editor of film and media at Variety, for a four-part tale of youthful ambition, artistic integrity, and the dark side of fame.

Just like my parents talk about they knew where they were when John F.

Kennedy was killed.

Pretty much everyone I know knows exactly where they were when River died.

Featuring new interviews with Samantha Mathis, Dr.

Drew Pinski, Corey Feldman, and more.

Listen to Variety Confidential on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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By this point in the interview, Devin has been sitting inside a small interrogation room for about 40 minutes.

This is what IPD has learned so far.

Devin and and Libby and another friend Nick checked into the sports stadium in early that morning.

After Nick left, Devin and Libby fought about his drug use.

Devin went to sleep sometime that morning and Libby headed into the shower.

Devin woke up around 8 p.m., walked over to the bathroom, and saw the end of his belt sticking out over the top of the door.

He opened the door and Libby's body fell to the ground inside the bathroom.

He touched her body to see if she was alive.

And then panicking, he called 911 and then drove away.

Detective Schmidley's tone throughout the interview is relaxed and understanding, almost conciliatory.

If he has any real issues or concerns with Devin's version of events, he doesn't say anything.

But as the conversation proceeds, The other detective jumps in, prods Devin a little harder.

Classic good cop, bad cop

do you see how this looks suspicious Devin

just by you leaving yeah yeah that's why I'm here

that's why I'm here you know

I don't want you we we've investigated a lot of death investigations absolutely I mean Detective Schmidley and I you know we have a lot of experience and some are very obvious

suicidal you know suicide deaths and some are not so obvious Absolutely.

Man, I promise you

I would not ever do anything to harm her physically.

I would prevent her from being harmed physically.

Now there's going to be an autopsy.

Know that they can determine.

Absolutely.

And I would love to get the results.

What do you think that autopsy report is going to indicate?

That she had strangled herself.

You see how it's kind of suspicious though a little bit because we have witnesses say that you were arguing with her

that day.

And like I said, we had gotten to an argument that morning.

Okay.

I would not do nothing to hurt my...

That is my...

That's my wife.

I understand.

I'm not trying to say you're accusing me.

I'm trying to express that to you.

And I understand, but

I just want you to know that

it's just a little suspicious of how you reacted, which, you know, most people would stick around.

Look, to be honest with you, I've never had a good encounter with the police.

Yeah.

Devin is 21 at the time of this interview, and he's no stranger to IPD.

By my count, he had been arrested around 10 times before for various nonviolent offenses.

You've got to understand that we have a job to do, and it's not personal.

Oh, well.

But when we have several different factors involving this investigation, which are suspicious in nature, which, you know, I mean, I understand your drug usage and everything,

but the whole argument thing and then just the way that she was positioned and so on and so forth.

Well, that's because I picked her up on the street.

Okay, and that's why you're here to explain some of those things that we feel that are suspicious in nature.

Yeah, our fights are loud.

We know each other.

Well, obviously, because people heard you.

The second detective pushes Devon about a claim he made earlier in the interview, that Libby choked herself in the past.

Something about this story seems off to him.

Like maybe it's a little too convenient.

So he circles back to it.

But she's tried to choke herself out with a belt before.

Yeah, yeah, and I've had deliberately pulled her,

pulled her hand off and get the belt out from around her night.

And yeah, and that is the honest truth.

I mean, do you see,

and I've investigated a lot of deaths,

but I've never seen anybody be able to choke themselves out and kill themselves.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, you just see what I'm saying?

Because you're going to pass out.

first.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Honestly, I always, Steve, I don't know exactly how it happened.

So let me ask you a question, Devin.

Sir.

Okay.

There's no doubt in my mind that you love her to death.

There's no doubt in my mind that you guys, you know, were high school

grade school, middle school to high school sweethearts.

Okay?

But to put this to rest a little bit,

did something bad happen

that things got out of control?

No, sir.

No, sir.

Positive.

I promise

I'll put my hand on a Bible and I'll put it on everything I love on my children on my son's life.

I would not ever do nothing like that.

Never.

Okay.

Never would I heard it like that.

I don't, I hope you guys do believe me.

And if you don't,

everything forensics figures out will prove that I

wouldn't have called y'all and I would have dismissed and burned you know or through something I wouldn't have done that is what the truth is

beyond denying any involvement in Libby's death Devin is adamant that he'd never hurt her before I don't I've never put my and I take pride in the fact that I've never put my hands on a fit a woman unless it's to stop her from hurting me.

Yeah.

And that's like hold her down, respect her until she calls down.

That's the only thing I've ever done.

She's a exciting girl.

As the second detective said to Devin, some suicides are straightforward.

Some are not.

In Libby's case, there were a lot of suspicious facts at play, but Devin seems to have explanations for all of them.

The weird position of Libby's body was because he held her and tried to loosen the belt.

He left the scene because he was scared of the cops and had been using drugs.

And yes, they had an argument, but that's just how their relationship was.

Volatile.

The interview wraps up just after midnight, and around the same time, IPD clears the crime scene at the sports stadium inn.

But before they do so, they check to see if there's any evidence to corroborate Devin's story that Libby hanged herself with a belt over the bathroom door.

And they find something.

A mark on the top of the door.

The crime scene tech notes that it appears fresh and seems to be about the width of Devin's belt.

Schmidley has one more person he wants to speak with: Devin's friend Nick, the other person inside the motel room that morning, and possibly the last person besides Devin to see Libby alive.

At the detective's request, Nick comes down to the police station and they talk for a few minutes.

It was just you and Devin and Liz, but she's okay.

Any issues?

No, I mean, she was like very like

What's the word for that?

Distressed about herself.

She was just like very depressed and

stressed and depressed.

She was talking about committing suicide and I was like, no, you don't.

When did she talk about committing suicide?

This morning.

And I told her, I was like, you don't want to do that.

Like talk to her about her kid.

Nick corroborates most of Devin's story and adds something new.

He tells Detective Schmidley that that Devin called him after finding Libby's body.

Nick then returned to the motel and the two drove together in Libby's car to Devin's dad's house.

Schmidley wraps up the interview and sends him on his way.

In his reports from that night, the detective summarizes his interviews with both Devin and Nick and writes, quote, investigation to continue.

But I have the case file on Libby's death.

And after Schmidley's interviews with Devin and Nick and the discovery of the mark on the bathroom door, the file essentially trails off.

There's very little to suggest this initial investigation goes any further.

This was kind of surprising to me because when police first arrive at the sports stadium inn, it's clear they're treating it as a homicide.

There are at least a dozen officers at the scene, detectives, patrol cops, a crime scene tech, plus various personnel from the medical examiner's office.

But then sometime during the night, there's a shift, and the focus of the investigation turns from homicide to suicide.

By the time Cindy is notified about Libby's death, the IPD seems to have made up their minds.

The only question they asked the night they knocked on our door to tell us our daughter was found in a motel bathroom,

was she suicidal?

The case isn't officially closed that night, though.

IPD has to wait for the medical examiner to make his own determination on how Libby died.

As one of the detectives told Devin, there's going to be an autopsy, and that should give everyone more answers, right?

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Your drive powers your day.

Now let it power change in your community too.

And when it comes to helping children in the Bay Area, Shell can keep your kindness rolling.

When you fill up at the Purple Giving Pump at Shell, a portion of your purchase is donated to charities like the California Fire Foundation.

Download the Shell app to find your nearest giving pump, less than two miles away.

Because giving back doesn't cost you extra.

From September 1st to October 31st, participating Shell stations will donate a minimum of one cent per gallon of the fuel pump from the giving pump or a minimum donation of $300.

I couldn't even believe it was real.

Join me, Tatiana Siegel, executive editor of film and media at Variety, for a four-part tale of youthful ambition, artistic integrity, and the dark side of fame.

Just like my parents talk about they knew where they were when John F.

Kennedy was killed.

Pretty much everyone I know knows exactly where they were when River died.

Featuring new interviews with Samantha Mathis, Dr.

Drew Pinski, Corey Feldman, and more.

Listen to Variety Confidential on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Lily is a proud partner of the iHeart Radio Music Festival for Lily's duets for type 2 diabetes campaign that celebrates patient stories of support.

Share your story at mountjaro.com slash duets.

Mountjaro terzepatide is an injectable prescription medicine that is used along with diet and exercise to improve blood sugar, glucose, in adults with type 2 diabetes mellitus.

Mount Jaro is not for use in children.

Don't take Mount Jaro if you're allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or vision changes.

Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems.

Taking Maljaro with a sulfinyl norrhea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Tell your doctor if you're nursing pregnant plan to be or taking birth control pills and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

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They were going to set aside a room for us to come and be with her and say our goodbyes, and we could stay as long as we wanted.

A few days after Libby's death, Cindy and her family were given the opportunity to see Libby's body in private at the funeral home.

They planned to do a cremation and service for Libby, but wanted a moment alone with her first.

Years later, Cindy's grief is still so raw, it's hard for her to speak.

And she just looked so beautiful.

You know,

they had

done her makeup and combed her hair.

She was wrapped in a blanket up

under her arms.

And her arms were folded.

And her head was like it was on a pillow.

I talked to her and I told her I was sorry that I couldn't protect her and loved her.

And then

we just kind of stayed in there for a little longer and

I had noticed that she had some scratches on her forearm.

Really deep scratches.

And I noticed her fingernails were broken off.

She had a bruise on her nose.

cindy told me that libby always liked to have her nails nicely done she was wearing light orange acrylics at the time of her death but at the funeral home libby's hands looked raggedy there was a cut on one finger and two of her acrylics were broken off roughly i got my phone out and i took a picture of the scratches on her arm

and

her fingernails.

Why did you decide to document it yourself?

I

didn't know if

you know if they had documented that stuff, so

I just decided I would

see Libby's body in that state unsettled Cindy, and so later when she got home, she decided she would look through Libby's car to see what she could find.

Devin and Nick had been the last ones to drive Libby's car after her body was discovered.

They later returned it to police and Cydney got the car back the following day.

It had been sitting in her driveway ever since.

From the outside, the car was newly dented, the windshield cracked, the dashboard loose.

She was so proud of that car.

I was just devastated that her car was in the condition it was

because she took such good care of her car.

It was always clean and smelled nice.

And so it was all very

just kind of shocking, kind of

devastation.

You know, I just felt

so heavy.

I thought,

how did this come to this?

Cindy had been too distraught to look inside the car until now.

And what she found surprised her.

In the crevice of the seat, an orange acrylic fingernail.

She stared at it for for a moment, thinking about Libby,

her body,

the police investigation.

I thought, well, they must have missed this fingernail, you know, or

I had no idea what I was, why

that would be there.

And I was naive.

It wasn't until much later, and I thought, why would they not search the car?

Cindy told me she was under the impression that the investigation into Libby's death was ongoing.

Two months went by while she waited for an update from the IPD.

We tried to call

several times to speak with someone.

We never got a hold of anybody.

And we would just leave voicemails.

We just didn't understand why

they just wouldn't talk to us.

On February 20th, 2018, Cindy received her first big piece of news in the case.

Not from one of the detectives she'd been trying to reach at IPD, but in a letter from the funeral home.

Inside was Libby's death certificate.

The autopsy was complete.

The police received the autopsy report around the same time Cindy got the death certificate.

Here's Major Anka, one of the officers who worked on Libby's case.

We had gotten...

the report back from the medical examiner.

I can remember I was sitting in my office and Smidley came came in, and he was beside himself and said, The medical examiner ruled Libby's death undetermined.

I go, What do you mean they ruled it undetermined?

He goes, Yeah, they ruled it undetermined.

That was something that really caught us off guard because when we get a, you know, all of our medical examiner reports, they come back: suicide, homicide, natural causes.

I mean, this was the first undetermined that most of us had seen.

When we received the death certificate and read Undetermined,

it was like, you know, affirmation for me.

I can't say relief, you know, because

there's no relief in that, but in that feeling of, okay,

we know she didn't do that, but now there's this horrible reality, you know, that

the person she trusted to protect her,

you know, potentially did it to her hurt.

Cindy was suspicious of Devin, and rumors were circulating in independents that there was more to the story than he was letting on.

Devin had been released the morning after he was interviewed by police, and as we heard earlier this episode, he had been hoping the autopsy report would clear his name.

What do you think that autopsy report's going to indicate?

Um, that he's been trailed or stuff.

But the autopsy report didn't clear Devin.

Undetermined didn't rule out homicide.

But it didn't rule out suicide either.

It just meant the medical examiner couldn't really figure out how Libby died.

It meant that the Independence Police Department should be looking at other evidence to figure out what happened to Libby.

I was confident that they would launch a full investigation at that point.

Specifically, she thought they would focus on Devin.

I hope they would be looking at his story and corroborating what his story was.

But that's not what happened.

Instead, the IPD told Cindy the case was closed, despite the medical examiner's ruling.

In my mind, I go, well, I'm thinking, isn't this backwards?

Isn't the ME who decides if he doesn't sign suicide, don't the police do an investigation, you know?

And that is when, that was my first

time that I thought something's not right here.

After the interview with Devin Martin the night of Libby's death, IPD did very little to corroborate Devin's story that Libby was suicidal beyond talking to his friend Nick.

No, I mean, she was like very like distressed about herself.

She was just like very depressed.

And on Devin's other claim that he'd never laid a hand on Libby.

Man, I promise you

I would not ever do anything to harm her physically.

I would prevent her from being harmed physically.

IPD made no attempt to interview those who knew Libby and Devon best, who could speak to the intimate details of their relationship,

which maybe would not have been that unusual in another case with different circumstances.

Except for the fact that inside the IPD's own files were records of over a dozen 911 calls involving the couple.

They had so much information about domestic violence between the two of them.

They had it in their hands.

They knew that.

So when I opened up the door, I seen Devin was on top of Lippy and he was choking her.

And

I got upset.

I went out to the Independence Police Department where it occurred and I just told them what I had witnessed.

That's next time on what happened to Libby Caswell.

Troll through me

from the rain and the tempest.

Keep your ear to the ground

What Happened to Libby Caswell is written, reported, and hosted by me, Melissa Jeltson, with writing and story editing by Marissa Brown and Lauren Hansen.

Episodes are edited by Jeremy Thal and Carl Cadel.

Our executive producer is Ryan Murdoch.

For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are Jason English and Katrina Norvell with our supervising producer, Carl Kadel.

Fact-checking by Maya Shukri.

Our theme song is written by Erin Kaufman and performed by Aaron Kaufman and Elizabeth Wolfe.

Original music by Erin Kaufman with additional music by Jeremy Thal.

Our episodes are mixed and mastered by Carl Kadel.

To find out more about my investigation or to send a tip, please email me at what happened to Libby at gmail.com.

Thanks so much for listening.

Until I,

until I fell apart,

what a way to find myself

in pieces,

in pieces in the dark.

Don't you know I'll follow you

until I,

until I fell apart.

What a way to find myself

in pieces,

in pieces in the dark.

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