Questlove Isn't Manif*cking Around [VIDEO]

okie dokie you ready we good okay we're rolling then we're rolling so your reputation is you you are a rule follower yo Michael Che I don't know what happened

At the table with you Michael Che

So often times

Uno

You know what

Let's get into this

This is What Now

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Always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted. So, first and foremost welcome welcome to uh you the listener slash viewer if you're watching this and welcome to our guests the the one and only amir quest love thompson someone who is who's become synonymous with not just all things music but i feel like all things good times which, which is a great vibe.
You know, when you walk through the streets, you go like, man, that person I associate with good times. Good time guy.
I feel like you made my time a little bit better because I was in Washington, D.C. That's where we are right now.
And then I found out you're going to be in Washington, D.C. And I'd been dying to get you on the podcast.
And then as you always you made things happen and I appreciate you for that genuinely so welcome to it because we're gonna

have such a great conversation today I I know it will be you know we're gonna be chatting about

your new book all right hip-hop is history we're gonna be talking about your life your your journey

with music and man what happened at the Grammys behind the scenes buckle up oh boy i'm excited welcome to the podcast thank you you know i i picked up your book and you jump into the book in maybe the most action-packed way ever yeah let me tell you something so i'm i'm obviously biased because i was there when this was happening. You hosted? Yeah, man.
Oh, God, yes. That night.
Do you even know what was happening? So I'll set the stage. I'll set the stage for everybody listening.
So it's the Grammys, right? It is the 2023 Grammys. 2023 Grammys.
Yeah. And this is going to be one of the biggest years ever because hip-hop is turning 50, and there's going to be a 50th hip-hop celebration that brings together almost every artist or every performer or every group from hip-hop, from every generation onto one stage in one mega blockbuster performance, you've never seen anything like this.
Right. And the man who is tasked with putting this together is the one and only Amir Questlove Thompson.
And, you know, you talk about how you said yes before you even thought about it. They said, Amir, you want to do this? You said yes.
And just like any amazing action scene in a movie, we are completely in because we're thrust into a world where you realize very quickly that you don't just have to curate a performance that encapsulates 50 years of hip hop into like a 10, 15 minute performance, which is impossible. Yeah, I thought it was that whole show.
I was like getting ready for it. But then we realized you have to manage all of the egos.
Please just break it down for me. So one of my biggest faults is often that I'm asked to do stuff like months or years ahead of time.
You know what I mean? So when someone's asking you, you know, three years before something, yeah, you're like, yeah, that'll be exciting. Right.
I'll do it three years from now. So, you know, Jesse Collins and Deanna Harmon asked me to, they have a way of pitching you that's, like, super exciting.
Like, Amir, we think you should do, you know, we think you should curate the Hip Hop 50 thing. And I'm more like the cartoon character, you character you know like when someone turns somebody into a turkey like someone salivating at the mouth and all that stuff and instantly i got i got to work i figured okay i'm gonna tell the story of hip hop from from the breakbeats of 1973 to the you know and i'm going through all the eras and i was like all right maybe they'll give me a half hour so all right here's my presentation and i said it's 31 minutes and they the way they laughed at me they're like no no no no no um just give us like 10 minutes and then once i looked at the list and realized that it was 10 minutes i'm like like, well, I'm going to have to cut this list in half.
Like I realized instantly what they really signed me up for. What they really wanted to say was, hey, Amir, we would like you to be the bad cop in this situation.
And then I realized, oh, I'm going to have to talk to people. Not only that, just go through my phone scroll, like not even the luxury of them.

You're the Grammys. You can call these people.
No, like I got to get up at 5 a.m. and have a Zoom with Dr.
Dre. It was the most seven intense weeks of my life of creatively cutting,ittling things down uh to a 10 minute you know uh standard not to mention the amount of conversations I had to have with people that are like wait you only you want me to fly out there just to do a course yeah like I'm only doing eight bars of a course hell no i ain't doing that you know so and then some people are really savvy because they've been in this situation before and they'll say like who are going to be there and then now i got to be careful like well uh there's dead hello hello because the thing is a lot of people don't realize some people don't want to be in the same vicinity on the same stage as other because it's like everyone's in hip-hop but not everyone in hip-hop is together right so then who all going to be there was the first thing and then now it's like well if i really need you to do this then i gotta knock out these three people so that you'll show up so there was a bunch of that oh man then one point, there were several groups who weren't even speaking to each other.
Yeah. Yo, I swear to God, when I see da-da-da-da, yo, he owe me $3,000 from 1998, son.
And da-da-da-da. Look, man, I'll give you the $3,000.
Oh, man. So there was a bunch of that happening.
So I'll jump into this part. So night off.
So I've've seen the rehearsals but now the thing that people don't realize is the rehearsals for the grammys are broken down right so you rehearse when the people can rehearse and so it isn't always chronological you know so like you know if bad bunny's opening the show he might rehearse like after a whole bunch of people and and you're really doing these pieces and segments and you're doing them and you know you've got ben winston who's executive producing the whole thing and and you know you've got the director hamish everyone's trying to put this together but hip-hop 50 everyone goes we've never done anything like this everyone at the grammy said we have never done anything like this oh i know and so on the night you know everyone everyone is really nervous all i keep hearing Yeah, I had an earpiece. I had an earpiece.
So you might have known what I'm going through. Oh, I knew exactly what you were going through.
But I didn't know what you personally were going through. The book lays it out and it's, man- So you remember the first act, was it Bad Bunny that started the show? Yeah, so Bad Bunny started the show.
So you remember that whole elaborate thing you did in the audience? Uh-huh, uh-huh. Like he's coming through the audience.
They're drumming. They're banging.
Bad Bunny's walking through. And then all of a sudden I hear, we need Amir.
Okay, guys, we've got a bit of a problem. One of the artists, we got it.
And I'm like, what is happening? They're like, all right, there's too much noise on this channel. We have to switch you because something's gone wrong.
So now I'm like, what's going wrong? They're like, it's not about this. It's about hip hop 50.
And as soon as they say that, I'm like, oh, no, what has happened? What has happened? Let me tell you. All right.
So I thought my main fear the morning of. Yeah.
Had nothing to do with the production. I was fine with rehearsals and everything.
Yes. Like creatively, we were good.
There was a new problem. And the was because uh first lady uh jill biden was coming was in the house there's a more intense level of uh security detail yeah than normal which you know okay i've been to the white house a few times whatever i understand you're gonna have to go through several stages of uh going through metal detectors and all that you know there's there's a few times, whatever.
I understand you're going to have to go through several stages of going through metal detectors

and all that.

You know, there's a few of my peers in the world of hip hop that are like, nah, son. Like, a never again thing.
A never again thing. Like, they see metal detectors and they're like, nope, I'm good.
so just to kind of appease two of these particular figures, we had to go through hell and high water just to make sure that was cool. Right.
Which once I realized the last person was finally in the house, I had two good hours of, whew. So I got changed, you know.
Yeah, you were walking the red carpet. Right.
i went to the red carpet and you know mess with uh taylor a little bit you know joking around jokes to taylor swift living the good life right everything was fine and then the second they uh introduced bad bunny suddenly i just started getting like code red code red light backstage right now. And what I was told was that one of our participants is on his way back to his house in Calabasas because maybe or maybe not a security person was a little overzealous in checking our friend's date.
He's yeah he's instantly like no like it was just like this person's not coming back so what they don't realize is that because we're on a very specific clock in terms of camera coordination uh all the visuals you see every cue at the The lights, the dancers. Every cue is so specific.
And that person didn't drop out from the front or the back. They dropped out from the middle.
Right. It's not like a thing where I could just instantly like, hey, we're cutting that song.
Now, nine key people who are not in contact with each other have to be told that we're going to lose like four minutes and 27 seconds to like six minutes and six seconds. We have to cut that part out.
But the thing is, it's a live show. And the show's happening already.
So you got to wait till commercials and then run to the light guy and say, look, doing the Hip Hop 50, four minutes and 27 seconds, six minutes. Then you got to go to the camera person.
Then you got to go to the graphics person. Then you got to go to the choreographer.
And then you dancers hey guys i'm sorry but that i just dropped out so we won't be using you like these people flew out you know told their family i'm gonna be on tv hey they've been rehearsing right so it took about 28 minutes to just tell all those people that this particular artist has dropped out. Wow.
And I thought, okay, we're good. And then part two happens, which is some genius decided, and I'm being sarcastic, to present the Album of the Year award before the presentation.
Yeah. And the thing is, it's like, look, dog, this is Kendrick Lamar's time.
Like, you've awarded this guy the Pulitzer Prize. You know, he's achieved things.
He's the favorite. We already know this.
You know, we already know this. But does hip-hop know it the same way? Because I feel like...
Ego's a part of hip-hop. That's what I mean.
I feel like nobody in hip-hop comes to an award show thinking that they're not going to win the award. Kendrick rightfully won that Grammy, and one of the nominees was like, I'm going home.
And that nominee was in the performance. I remember this happening in my ear.
I got a call from Ben. He was like, Trev, mate.
He's like, we just lost another hip-hop performer. performer uh we're gonna try and figure it out but for now uh we might need to move things around we just gotta and he's like uh and then it was panic again yo so it's it's four minutes left and we just and we begged him as he's walking out like yo can you please can you i'm going home And so we have four have four minutes one to make all the edits but then i need somebody to end this thing and i'll tell you what i did i found a closet i said i opened the closet and went in they're like amir that's not a room and they're like what are you doing in there i need silence and literally i just sat there for two minutes dead silence like all right what am i gonna do i thought you were having a mental breakdown because i heard i heard during the the cast they were like things are going crazy things are going things are going wild and then someone said amir just went into like a broom closet and he won't come out and i was like well i guess he finally cracked no so this is what i learned unstoppable force known as quest love finally cracked people think that meditation is like cosmic prayer meditation is just you got to sit in silence for a long time and breathe and the answer will come to you now let two minutes go by and you can clearly hear them outside the door like yeah and i was like i did that for two minutes two minutes left i'm here and i said i grabbed my phone i was like i can either text text Jay-Z right now or Lil Uzi Vert.

And something told me, like Jay-Z, he's not the king of known.

Let me stop putting that out there.

But he is the king of known.

He's been known to be.

No, no, no, but he is the king of known.

I think in many ways, Jay has understood the thing that you and I are still working on. He goes, thank you, but no.
Scarcity marketing. No.
Which I would love to. Oh, I would love that.
Matter of fact, during the whole Zoom thing of me having to pitch people, Dr. Dre also taught me something because he gave me a no.
Yeah. And I was like, all right.
I'm asking him in two weeks and nudge him like come on pal can you do this for me and dr dre in a way that i haven't seen since my father before you know like when you when you cross that line yeah yeah yeah and your parent wants to give you that warning before all hell breaks loose dr dre said in a very serious way which I now use on people he says Quest let me tell you something I really hate to say no twice damn and the silence that ended I was like one okay I will never ask you to do anything in life two i gotta use that like literally but jay said no and i i was just like all right let me just let me hit uzi or someone close to him so i i i texted his team and as i press send your phone dies my phone went out and so crazy because on the outside, we're like, we don't know what's going to happen.

We don't know how it's going to happen.

It plays out.

And I won't spoil all of it because I want people to read the book.

You got to read the book.

But on the outside, yo, let me tell you this.

You nailed it, though.

You nailed it.

You genuinely like.

I didn't know I nailed it.

And Jay-Z was part of it, basically.

Jay-Z rapped along to every single song. Jay-Z wound up being the star of the show.
Yeah, he did. Him as audience member was better than him going up and doing this song.
No, it was one of the greatest performances ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.
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and use the code trevor for 15% off your online order of a hundred dollars or more that's brooklinen.com use promo code trevor for 15% off you know there are a few people who write a book about a topic that they are so inextricably linked to you know when you talk about the story of hip-hop in many ways i feel like hip-hop has had the same journey that you have had as a human being yeah and the two of you have been intertwined you know like twin souls yeah because hip-hop today seems obvious you know i i went to a rangers game in new york went to someone invited me they're like do you want to come watch a hockey game i went and the thing that struck me the most was in a stadium that was 99.99 percent white every time out they played hip-hop and so I want to know from your perspective what was the first moment where you felt like hip-hop was going to maybe be a thing because you talk about being this child who was I love how you even phrase it you say you were eight years old and you were hearing hearing hip-hop for the first time you're washing the dishes with your sister my sister and i were doing the dishes and the intro of rapper's delight comes on and then we hear chic's good times so we're just like oh it's good times and then we started hearing people talk rapping and we just stopped doing the dishes like wait what is this and you know it's like a clock radio in the kitchen so we turn it up and we look at it and the longer the song went on i thought like oh i'll never hear this again in my life so it was a decision to make so i run and get a tape recorder and record what i'm hearing which is exactly what i did like i ran right to my room got a a tape recorder, put the tape recorder to the clock radio, recorded it, and just sat there and listened. You know, Rapper's Delight was 15 minutes.
Right. So I came in at like maybe the three-minute part, and I wrote that entire song down.
I was supposed to be in bed like 8, 8.30. You know, I was eight years old.
I i probably stayed up i was allowed to stay up until maybe 9 30 and i transcribed all the lyrics and then i went to school the next day me performing rapper's delight for like all my fourth grade class members and that's you know of course like adults were like oh never last it's a fad but when it really called to me was in 1988. So there was like a 50s-themed McDonald's called Big Al's based on Happy Days, and I worked there.
And this is the morning that It Takes a Nation of Millions by Public Enemy came out, which if you know of their production style, it was a very, they wanted to sound like music's worst nightmare. So they would just pack in like 19 samples in one song.
Right. Just sounded like, they said that they wanted their music to sound like what crack feels like.
Because it was the crack era. Oh damn, I didn't know that.
Which is why all my chapters are based on the five year. Yes, yes, yeah.
The first phase, cocaine, second phase, 40 ounce. you have one of the more interesting ways of breaking hip-hop down like where where most people would talk about hip-hop just in a decade almost you know they would say this was an era you broke hip-hop down by the drug that was pervasive at the time yeah and you know it's one of those things in stand-up talk about it.
We go, there's always that moment where a comedian will get on stage and they will say something so painfully obvious that you don't understand why you never saw it, but it is so genius because nobody could see it because it was right in front of them. I feel like you revealed that with the way you broke hip-hop down.
When Chuck D said, like, we wanted to be music's worst nightmare because it was the crack era he wanted his music to sound what crack felt like right and then i realized oh so when the chronic came five years later dr dre slowed the music down and that's the sound of weed yep but then when the 97 bad boy era really started to kick in that was the sexy that's that's the the the ecstasy era and then when the 97 bad boy era really started to kick in, that was the sexy, that's the ecstasy era.

And then when the South first started coming in, that's the Sizzurp era.

And then, of course, with Molly, opioids, fentanyl, like we're going through each phase.

Every five years, the drug of choice that we self-soothe on changes.'s how the music changes right like this is the numbing era this is this is the era of no feelings i i don't want to feel numb and some people are totally emo so you either 12 000 emo or no feelings which is why everyone sounds numb like that's why mumble culture doesn't make sense to my generation like I grew up in the crack era right because it doesn't it doesn't match up with what you experienced or how you were living how you were living that life I genuinely love how you how you find these threads how you connect them how you you know in the book you talk about your journey in hip hop, the roots journey in hip hop. And I love the connection that you have with Tariq, where it's like, you know, here we are seeing the foundations of Black Thought and Questlove, seeing them go from boys growing up, as you say, you know, from tweens to teens, from teens to young men.
And then you're in hip-hop. See, our narrative was that we were working-class musicians, which really isn't sexy.
There's nothing sexy about, hey, we're a hardworking band. Because the narrative, a lot of the narrative, especially of the crack era, which is 1987 to 1992, is the idea of winning.
Yeah. Which is why the idea of Scarface, we don't love the movie Scarface.
The idea of Scarface is what we love. Right.
If anything, I anything I think like Jay's life sort of mirrors that like I'm gonna buck the system right and then I'm gonna evolve and become the system right that's pretty much how like America was built like off of oh everyone money the it. Corrupt money, and then somehow they became the- Right.
You become the establishment. The establishment.
The respectable establishment. For us, though, had Tariq and I, like, again, even the idea, we were really the roots of name only because, like, we went to high school.
When you're in high school and boys to men are boys to men in high school, and I don't mean, like, this before they had a record deal, but it was like the Beatles on Sullivan. They would walk down the block and girls, and singing the girls in the back.
And I'm like, oh, they're cheap, man. Like singing the girls.
Like we can't do that. And so we started a group, but it was a name only.
And it was only when i was coming back from my audition uh i auditioned to go to the new school or juilliard and coming back home tarik was with me for my audition this real pretty girl in kind of a gray coupon commercial way says excuse me are you the are you the drummer that uh plays in that spike lee bucket? Now, yes, I was the drummer in the Boys to Men Motown Philly video. But because a very popular Spike Lee commercial for The Gap where it was like a bucket drummer.
You know, we see musicians busking all the time. But back in like 1991, it was weird to see a guy playing drumsticks and in a bucket and she was so beautiful i said no i'm not and she's like oh okay and she sauntered off and left the train and tarik looked at me like and so cut to the next day we're watching soul train and that spike lee commercial comes on yeah and literally it was like the the eureka what i call the the doc brown uh flex capacitor inspiration moment like we just slow looked at each other like yo let's do that and cut to two hours later us going to south street busking and you know the summer of 1992 is kind of where a year later we'll have a record deal and we will be the roots as you know it at least right and the thing is is that in our narrative like we we just never had a story of like we won and that's what hip-hop was at the time yeah i won i got more than you right i've you know we were telling the truth we weren't rich we weren't you know put your rollies in the sky waving side to side we didn't think to lie to people yeah or i don't think it's lying to people i think it's sort of manifesting what your future is and then it comes but okay but then what do you what do you think what do you think the secret to your staying power has been as a group um when people used to ask before i would playfully joke that you know the the reason why the roots existed for 30 plus years is because uh two tour buses and i say slithering and gryffindor but i now realize something, which is oftentimes artists have this obsession with perfection.
Yeah. You're Michael Jackson, like it must be perfect.
Prince is famous for rehearsing this band, like 15 hours a day, perfection, perfection. That's not the key.
The key is like when you're trying to manage your destiny or rehearse your destiny it never works literally all you have to do is left foot right foot left foot right foot and yeah some of those times are trepidation there have been moments where like i don't like the way the audience looks like oh they don't know who we are yeah yeah you know and i'll overthink it but it's just show up so i don't think you know people well you guys are super talented you know you da da da da you have the ability to collaborate with whoever nah we're we're still we just we show up and that's literally i believe that's the true answer i try to make science of it of it all like well you, because we're responsible or, you know, we're drug-free or we're, you know. No.
We went to counseling. You just show up.
Yeah, we just, you literally show up. But you know what I think it is? I think, I'd love to hear what you think it is as well.
It's like, I think as artists, if we're honest about it, there is a great fear that comes with doing what we're doing because you are directly attached to the product that you are creating it is a direct expression of who you are is that it's a direct moment where you're exposing yourself it's like another opportunity to be rejected it's another opportunity for it to not go right it's another opportunity you know like let's say the music itself can go on without you but when we talk about let's say a live performance every live performance is a new performance do you know i mean you step on stage and if your timing is off and if your drumming is off and and you know and and if if if thought misses some lyrics or if he messes something up that crowd doesn't say oh no it's fine because the album is perfect they go that was terrible but you know you showed me someone i mean no one actively plans on let me ruin this moment yeah but i guarantee you at least 90 of the time it's someone that's in their head i've learned uh that worrying is literally praying to be sabotaged man i i hope i don't drop a drumstick when you worry when you allow your brain to go to that place yeah to focus on the thing shout out to lauren zander for inventing the term man of fucking that's when you start man of fucking so it's it's i guarantee you behind every moment of of that level of sabotage or bad performance that's because a person's mind's not clear i don't like before you go on stage because your your level of entertainment is more intimate because you have to talk to people yeah like do you at least i have to sit in silence 15 minutes before i go on stage or dj just so that i can ground myself and get in that zone i'm the complete opposite oh you got to be all hyped and listen to music no no no no i i just so it's funny everyone has a different routine so chris rock he has like he almost has like a meditative zen everyone has to leave the room and then he focuses and he goes in but he's also he still have that prince uh i think so you have his prince uh altar yeah but i think i think he's also one of the most precise comedians. So I get why he needs that, you know? And then Kevin Hart, he's like a lot more loose.
He'll just do the thing. He'll laugh with people, you know? Dave Chappelle's always playing music.
That's one thing. Like when you walk backstage, Dave Chappelle is playing music.
And the music is setting the scene, setting the vibe. For me, it's people.
I need my people backstage because- Really? Yeah, because the thing I'm trying to do is, for me, I'm trying to bring you Trevor when I get on stage. I don't want to become somebody else.
I'm not trying to become somebody else. I'm trying to introduce you to the funniest version of who I am.
And that is like when people know me. When people meet me the first time a lot of people are disappointed they're like oh man I thought you'd be uh thought you'd be a little more I thought you speak more I thought you'd be funnier I thought but I'm like no I most of the time I'm processing information I'm observing the world I'm quiet I was about to say you're the first comedian I met that, like, if any particular artist has kind of a duplicitous existence where there is Dr.
Jekyll and Hyde, comedians to me are that, like, every comedian I know, it's like life of the party on stage. Yeah.
but the level of darkness that I witnessed out of it and then I realized like oh

shit It's like life of the party on stage, but the level of darkness that I witnessed out of it.

And then I realized like, oh, comedy is one of the best distracting, nothing to see here. Like, I don't want you to see the real me, so let me be funny as hell to throw off the smoke.
but you you actually you might be the the beginning of a new generation that might be genuinely you and adjusted at least from outside looking in yeah no i honestly i try to be i try to be as much as i can because because i realized this and maybe you can relate as a performer what i realized was if i'm going to spend my life doing something then i would like to spend my life doing something that'll help me be the best version of me versus spending my life doing something where I'm somebody else. And then I have to come to grips with the other person I am whenever I come off stage.
Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know. So that's why what I'm trying to do is I walk out onto the stage and I'm trying my best for you as the audience to feel what I'm like with my friends.
And if you meet me in the street and if I'm at a restaurant, that's me. That's like, that's just how I am because then I don't have to turn it on and I don't have to turn it off.
And I don't have to think about who's, well, which Trevor's coming today, which Trevor's showing up. No, I like that.
I used to worry about that because I think, at least for me, it was really – I'm in an even weirder space because I know I have people that admire me. Yeah.
But it's not – again, it's not the Beatles, Hard Day's Night. Like a pack of girls aren't chasing me down an alleyway.
And it's weird. like sometimes i'll walk down the block and it's always like you know some guys like dog like that album changed my life man back in college and thank you very much and it's always and i'll be high like wow thanks and then what always happens is whoever he's with usually date or whatever, I can hear maybe like five seconds of the conversation as I walk away.
And it's always the tune of like, you don't know Questlove? The Roots. You know The Roots.
You know Jimmy Fallon? Yo, you remember Will Smith? You know, Questlove? And that always just... But I used to always, I would say that I was the person that would sort of self-evidence reasons why I don't deserve stuff.
That's interesting. You talk a little bit about that in the book.
That's going to ground me. I actually would like to get into that.
Like, you know, in the book you talk about almost experiencing hip-hop through an anti-hip-hop lens. And not against hip-hop, but rather the machismo in hip-hop, the vibe.
You know, for instance, even when we talk about weight, there's a really fascinating part of the book where you're talking about how, you know, Biggie and Big Pun and Fat Joe and all of these artists, how they use their weight in a different way.

Rick Ross, you name it.

And you very candidly share your story and how, like, you are grappling with your weight in a different way.

And you don't seem to have the same command over it.

And it's almost not a tool in your i never thought this could be sexy um yeah for me uh i realized uh late super late in my life that we are going to self-soothe on something when we're not aligned.

Yeah.

Like, I now don't see, like, a cocaine addict as, like,

oh, you just chose drugs.

I now think, like, okay, you're self-soothing because of another issue.

Right.

And there's different types of addictions that we don't think about.

Like, we don't think that, yes, there's the greatest hits one. There's drugs and alcohol.
There's gambling. But then there's some other that we don't think about.
And for a lot of it, the amount of times that I've, like, celebratorily, like, let's go to dinner. Or, you know, in the studio, I'll just have, you know, my writer, like, 10 different types of cereals.
Like, I didn't realize the amount of times that I would just casually, I'm a foodie. I write books about food.
So, you know, I called it, my excuse was being a foodie. But then someone challenged me once during the pandemic, like, well, I dare you to not do that.
and we'll see if you're an addict and literally like i was like chris rock in new jack city like i need captain crush i need i didn't realize that that was my drug you know um and i didn't realize that this was my shield to keep people away from me wow i you don't you don't realize that at the time so and it's it's it's an everyday struggle like just to just to you know i want to be an example without being the the the guy that you like you see on instagram and i'm going to be the i don't want to be the hall monitor yeah you, yeah, yeah. You're not the instructor type.
I want to lead by example. So, I mean, the fact that Chuck, Flavor, Ice-T, LL in a few seconds are making it to 60 is like, that's a true reason for celebration.
But I also know that those individuals have also reached a crossroads in their lives where they have to, you know, I didn't know that Chuck D revealed to me that, you know, he does meditations. Yeah.
And do these things that I used to laugh at. I used to laugh at all yoga, meditating.
But then how do you, how did you find the balance? How did you, you know one of the things i i notice about us as people is we risk swinging wildly from one extreme to another so i'll meet people who like you say they self-soothe they whether it's food or whether it's partying or whether whatever it is and then i meet them and then now it's like they self-soothe by being the complete opposite and it's extreme and nothing is a joke, brother. Let me pray with you for a moment.
Let me meditate with you in this moment. And I don't, everything is the devil.
And yeah. You know, when people get a new toy.
Yeah. Like I had cousins come home for jail.
Like, you know, when you do a bed in jail, like you're going to either find God or, you know, have my family's Muslimlim you know uh-huh like prayer rug in the middle of the street like all right here we go all right give you a slot all right now can we talk about uh you know tv again um i was that person and then i realized like you you got to be the example instead of preaching the example i wanted to ask ask you that about music. Do you, do you, are you able to listen to music without the, like the rule? And I don't mean the rules of like what music is supposed to be or not be.
But there are a few people I know of who can break music down. So for instance, you have these playlists that you'll send out to people, right? And one of the reasons I love your playlists is because i love discovering new music so when you listen to music i'd love to know like are you able to turn off your precision and your perfection or are there are there moments where like it bites at you i'm i'm a stickler for detail okay and so the reputation of theots being a band or whatever is often the fact that we can mirror exactly what the song does kind of in a not in a karaoke way but you know the artist always says wow you guys sound just like the record exactly right and so I'm always I'm always on the band about like, no, the thing goes like this on the record.
You know, does the average layman person care? Probably not. Am I tightly wound? Probably so.
But someone has to be the captain. So that's usually where I'll get the ridicule.
Like I know on the other Roots thread without a mirror. That's where I know where the conversation is going.
But the reason why, or the main reason why I did these playlists, I think I started doing this way back. Blue Ivy was born when like 2013 2013 i think yeah i'm terrible with yours yeah 2013 2012 around that era and so my gift uh to the carters was like look and this is back when it was just ipods i said what i'm gonna do is i'm to fill up a whole bunch of music with iPods and in our crib, you know, just have this music playing subliminally.
Oh, man, that's beautiful. And then, you know, because I think if you can get kids before they're set, and I don't mean like, I'm not the kind of guy that wants you to listen to the music I listen to.
But it's just being exposed to, it's like languages. I think it it expands your mind so I initially started making iPods for the Carters but then Jay will be like yeah we kept things to ourselves like and then the other thing was kind of my occasional eye roll at Obama's summer playlist like okay all okay.
All right. Who's really feeding you this music? All right.
Let me. Man, nobody gives him credit.
Come on. Let me.
And I'll hit him up. I'm like, yo, dog.
Like, okay. Who's your trainers doing this? Like your interns? So what wound up happening was initially First Lady Michelle had me make her a bunch of playlists because she was doing like a a book tour and want to cool music uh-huh to play when she would do her speeches whatever and then then it just started expanding so it's to me i'm the guy that's willing to you know do the needle on Haystack for the perfect song.

All those songs that I choose are songs that like,

that give me goosebumps.

Like no song is on there by accident.

Okay, not to put you on the spot,

but if you were to choose five,

just five songs where you go.

See?

No, no, no.

Just like, and it might be like,

it might even be the top of mind that I'm looking for. I know I'm putting you on the spot.
I'm going to tell you something. From five genres where you go, you're on an island, you're trapped.
This is it. Five songs for the rest of the time.
You can't even make music. Five songs.
When off the clock, I don't listen to music more than I listen to ambient noises. Oh, that is fascinating.
So right now, if you would say, what is my favorite song? For me, fork tuning music is my all-time. It's not even music anymore.
The sounds of... That to me is like...
i need that my life is so chaotic but i mean if if you just want me to name like tangible songs or tangible music um i would choose uh okay if you're a fan of brian wilson of the beach boys uh-huh and you know the story of how he struggled for 40 years to to make the follow-up to the pet sounds album he finally completed this album i think in 2009 2010 or whatever like finally it's in its complete stage it's called smile and there's a song called wind chimes that is just my my relaxing place so that's the relaxing one that's a relaxing one um number two bill withers has a version of grandma's Hands on Live from Carnegie Hall. Okay.
1972, 73, that has a long monologue at the beginning of it. And when I was a kid, my parents and grandparents used to always make me perform the monologue.
Oh, wow. Bill's telling the story of what it was like growing up in West west virginia and his grandmom's house and going to church and it was like the comedian thing like white churches and black churches black churches do this yeah white churches do this and i used to do that routine when i was like three or four um so let's say the live version of grandma's hands okay live what does that do feeling wise for you it's probably the the rosiest childhood memory i have okay okay so it's like it's warm yeah like it's that warm feeling all right okay um there's a song called there comes a time by the tony williams uh group tony williams was the uh drummer for miles davis he went solo and did a song called There Comes a Time.
There Comes a Time was the first night of the roots, as you know it, when we saw the commercial and went on South Street to busk. Yeah.
It was such a victory night that at the end of the night, we took our $120 and we went to Wawa and to get a hoagie and some lemonade. And we just sat in the car, like, feeling accomplished, thinking like, so we going to do this next week? Or, yeah, we going to do this next week.
We might make $200. And this avant-garde DJ had played Tony Williams, There Comes the Time.
We just thought it was the oddest thing we ever heard. And it turns out, we don't know it at the time, but that DJ will wind up being like the Roots' brain trust and longtime manager until he passed away of leukemia, Richard Nichols.
So we will meet that person in about three months, not knowing that he was the DJ for Jazz 90. Damn damn that's beautiful so that's the weird one so we got calm yeah we got calm we got homely we got weird what's like a hype is there like a hype song for my generation when rebel without a pause came out by public enemy the song actually encapsulates the the angst that teenage me feels inside that can't express it.
This loud siren noise that keeps going. It's every parent's nightmare, but for me, it's like, yeah, this is how I feel inside.
So Rebel Without a Pause by Public Enemy. I like that.
Okay. That's like catharsis.
I like that. Yeah.
The last song I'll say is a rather normal song, but there's a moment where in 1983, Prince releases a remix version of Little Red Corvette. Now, are you familiar with the phrase? It's called code switching? Yeah.
So code code switching for those that don't know oftentimes if you come from one side of town you might often have to chameleonize yourself to adjust to where you're going switching to that office voice right so if I'm back in my old neighborhood at home good to see you again buddy right exactly. Right.
Exactly. At home, I know to lower my voice.
Hey, what's up, man? How you doing? Yeah, I'll take a shrimp fried rice and, huh? What? Oh, word. That's what's up, yo.
Thanks. Thanks.
But when I'm at office, hello there. How are you? Like, it's a level of code switching.
Prince, what makes Prince such a genius is often when he releases singles, he knew what he would have to do in order to gain the audience that he wanted. Oh, interesting.
Which is why songs like Raspberry Beret exist, which is why I like nice songs like Take Me With You exist. There's a level of wink, winkage that he's doing to a wider audience that he's trying to grab but he's also telling his black audience i know where i came from you know what i mean so he'll he'll often remix the song and blackenize it in very subtle ways that you don't notice it okay Okay.
So what happens is 12-year-old me is thinking that he's hearing the album version of Little Red Corvette. But then suddenly in the three-minute period, the bass line changes, and I'm like, wait, this feels different.
This is not the AM, FM radio rock song that little red crevette was suddenly it's it's black as shit so what i'll later learn is that oftentimes for for pop radio you'll want to stick to major chords okay because it feels safe and it feels inviting minor chords the black keys are often dark and that that's sort of up our alley you know it's funkier it has edge to it there's mystery to it there's there's bite to it and the moment I realized that you can turn any song into the major version which is safer or the minor version which edgier that totally transformed me so for me hearing little red corvette the the the remix dance version

just that made prince god in my mind unlocked something in you in a way that no other artist

could could do that don't go anywhere because we got more What Now after this. You know, I'll tell you this, Amir.
Like, there are few things that I have been to or experienced where there is more lore that is spread about them than your legendary game nights. Yo, people's, the amount of lore and fiction and myth about your game nights is out of this world.
People ask me questions. It's almost like your game night has become Illuminati because people will say to me, they'll be like, Trevor, I saw, I saw you made it into one of Questlove's game nights.
Pray to tell what happens in there.

I heard that there are people.

And you're like, it's a game night.

It's just a game night.

Someone once joked to me.

They were like, you know, I can't believe you hit jackpot

during one of the most wholesome.

It is the most wholesome event ever.

It's so wholesome, I'm embarrassed.

The reason why I don't talk about it,

the reason why I'm sort of like fight club with it,

I'm sorry. one of the most wholesome it is the most wholesome event it's so wholesome i'm embarrassed the reason why i don't talk about it the reason why i'm sort of like uh fight club with it isn't because we're doing this debaucherous studio 54 thing it's it's studio 54 levels of fun yes but it's so yes damn square and i think i happen to know that that's the specific reason why.
People come over because the thing is, like, OK, we'll invite about maybe we'll try to aim for 60 people and we'll carefully curate things. And I got to go through, you know, some people have security details.
Some people have you've seen the amount of people that have been here. But the thing is that it's it's such an unpretentious normal moment give an example all right so the first time that taylor swift came yeah it was literally to zero fanfare like she just walked in and i didn't even know i didn't even know she was there until 10 minutes in and i was like oh okay Oh, okay.
She did show up. That's what's up.
She sits down at Bum B's table. Right.
And plays Uno. And that's the thing.
Like what I realized, the reason why I threw game night is because, um, I don't, I work so much. I don't prioritize joy, man, and fun things.
And I'll monitor, I'll figure out a way to monetize my joy like

djing used to be my joy it's still my joy but now it's also your job but it's a job it's an occupation drumming is a job and an occupation journaling what is a job and occupation but these used to be my my passions so with game night at least there is a four to five hour period in which 60 strangers are amongst each other just playing around but then the next night i'll get the text and it'll just be like yo man like dude, like, dude, thank you so much.

Like, I got to talk to J.J. Abrams about what I thought of.

And this designer's talking to that writer.

And it's not even an elitist thing,

because I have...

No, no, no.

Half of the room is just friends of Questlove

who nobody knows from anything or anywhere.

That's just, you know?

Right.

That was the most fun I had,

was sitting at the table with your boy. I don't even know where he's from.
But it also tells me a lot about people. The way Michael Che hit me like, yo, dog, man.
I was like, yo, you have fun? Because this whole thing was like he couldn't. Michael Che was one of them cats that couldn't quite realize like, wait, so we're going.
We're just coming to play games? Yeah. And I'm like, like yeah we even had like one particular artist who's like security detail had to come and sweep the place and they asked us like so where's your medic at and i was like medic it's like yeah you know medic in case something happens i was like i said dog ain't that type of party like they're like wait you guys are really here to and the way they laugh like cereal you're here to play uno to play games yeah and i was like yeah and they looked at each other like wait that's all y'all doing i was like yeah we're playing games and they couldn't believe it and then they witnessed it and was like oh this was fun but literally at the end of the night i hit him and i was like so what'd you think and he was just like man it's like trevor kept now i know che is the type of guy that will pull another rule out of his hat without completely completely right so let's get into this i like how people will be like your reputation is that you're a rule follower here's but so am i no but here's the thing that's more specific for me okay i'm competitive okay we start with this i'm competitive and the thing i never understand is this if we cannot agree on the rules of a game then how can we agree on who has won or lost said game right the thing that gets me is i'll be let's just agree on the rules i'll be playing uno with somebody i'll be playing crazy eight with somebody i'll be playing whatever card game it is i'll be playing a game with somebody and then they'll go oh no that that

doesn't do that so it's like okay wait let me just look official rules right this is what i'm saying

official rules of uno is that if somebody puts down a take two you cannot add to that now i'm

saying i play the game where you can as well but let's yo man i can play and one i can play nba

i can play like you know what i mean three three v three i can i can play every style of game a lot

Thank you. Play the game where you can as well.
But let's, yo, man, I can play and one. I can play NBA.
I can play, like, you know what I mean, 3v3.

I can play every style of game.

See, a lot of my black guests.

All right, so I got a lot of pushback from my black guests.

Because we add.

We stack.

Right.

So there's levels of stacking.

And I love stacking, but let's agree that we're stacking.

I get it.

Yes, you're right.

And so.

Let's agree, people.

That's all I'm saying.

I'm sorry. stacking and i don't i love stacking but let's agree that we're stacking i i get it yes you're right and so let's agree people that's all i'm saying because sometimes what happens is it goes halfway around the table and then someone else goes oh no but we don't you don't stack and the and then everyone at the table is like oh okay no not okay yeah so okay so here's what happened on that one in particular so we weren't playing one game so what i love about your game nights is you'll get to a table, you'll find a game.
You don't even know what game you're going to play. So you get to the table, there's a whole bunch of games laid out.
And on this occasion, there was a Barbie version of Uno. Okay.
Which I've never played before. I don't think anyone's played before.
It's like a special type of Barbie Uno. So now there were new rules.
Yes. Okay.
So now everyone's at the table going, what do we do? Now, I'm not the kind of person who will pontificate on the possibilities of playing when I can just pull out the instructions. The rule books, right.
If we don't know how to play the game, let's read the instruction. So I go, let me read the rules.
Michael Che goes, of course you're going to read the rules. Then I'm like, what do you mean? course i'm do you not wish to know how to play the game he's like i'm sure we can figure it out i'm like we cannot figure it out i don't know what a margot robbie car does i don't know if you do he's like we can figure it out no michael che we cannot figure it out and my thing is michael che is so cool he's gonna be like he's gonna ooze cool but he's one of those people who will confidently walk down the wrong road right just like i'm the kind of person to be like, let's pull out a map and see if we're headed in the right direction.
You and I are the same. Right? We're boarding the same.
So I read the rules. And it turns out the America Ferrera card and the Margot Robbie card are very different.
Exactly. And there's a lot of things you got.
The Issa Rae card has a different vibe. Yeah.
You know what I mean? The Kate McKinnon card does a completely different thing. So these are all things that I was trying to explain to the group so we could make the game fun because if the rules don't exist, then the game isn't.
But yet you got a reputation as the hall monitor. Man, he, even at the table, he was roasting me.
He roast, you know where I had every trauma from school come back. I knew it.
Where I felt like a nerd who had actually done the reading or actually done- Teacher's pet. Teacher's pet.
That was him. Exactly.
That was him. Michael's lucky I went to therapy.
It was good for someone to have it instead of me because I'm always the teacher's pet. You're usually that guy.
So I was like, whoo, all right. Trevor took the heat off me.
This is like, I'm here for game night. I'm not here for socializing night.
I'm here for game night. the socializing is secondary to that experience so i'm here predominantly for the game i've realized so moving forward we decided that each table should have their own captain and that captain will establish what the house rules are that is what i'm talking about so next time trevor you will have your own table it's your i don't need to be a captain.
I just need the captain to know what the rules of the game are.

No, you're a captain, dog.

I'll take it.

I love it, man.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for being here now because, honestly, this is wow.

Thank you.

What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions and Fullwell 73.

The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle, Marina Henke, and Claire Slaughter are our producers.

Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown.

Thank you so much for listening.

Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?