Meet Eugene Khoza – One of My Favorite People [VIDEO]

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So what made you decide to go into podcasting?

Decide to go into it?

Is that your podcast?

Is that your podcast voice?

No, Epstein Begayens I own.

I'm going to have to edit around all of Eugene's Vanak.

Okay.

Because how do you do

how do you do subtitles

on the podcast?

Any Vanak that you say

I'm going to just throw in

an American guy's voice there.

So you'll be like

but Epstein

and then instead of like Begayens I own something then he'll be like, but Epstein, and then instead of like,

the guy ends out something,

then he'll be like,

Epstein, he did it.

And then I'll just tell,

I'm just going to tell the audience,

every time you hear this voice,

he spoke in another language

and I didn't want to lose

the authenticity of the conversation.

So I didn't edit around it at all.

So there you go.

But I had,

that's funny. Yeah, but I, because you have to do subtitles.
But I want you to know that it's subtitles. You see me.
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Just do something natural.

Oh, would you like some water, can oh thanks you thank you thank you thank you oh yeah this is the awkward part how how you start a conversation it's the worst part of every conversation why don't we start with a prayer this is actually why our grandmothers started meetings with prayers oh yeah because it's to cut the awkwardness Because now you're gonna You can't just come together And be like Your son has a drug problem And your husband is cheating If you start with a prayer Then it opens it up But it was also a township power move Because everyone here will know Whose house this is Because you can't lead a prayer You can't lead a prayer At somebody else's house No When you pray When you pray in a South African household Right of all, like I don't know if your grandmother did this. My grandmother used to give her address and she used to give like where she's from and her name and everything.
No, my grandmother did that. No, really.
My grandmother would do that. She'd be like, and then she'd be like, and then she'd be like, what a location.
Yeah. Who you are, where you're from, whatever.
And I remember I asked her once, I was like, why are you doing this she was like Why do I assume She said Trevor I must just assume That God is always Listening to me She said Yeah yeah yeah That's not fair And if you think about it Most South African Like prayer in general I think is very like Considerate of God It's very much like We know that you're doing stuff and we know that like, you know what I mean?

Yeah, but I think because of missionaries, we never as black people

thought that God is with us. God was brought to

us. So we

always have to identify ourselves and

also separate ourselves

from the non-believers. It's funny, now that you say the

missionary thing, I actually

think a lot of that was real.

Is that like, because I always think about this i go like imagine being a black person anywhere on the continent right these people come with religion right and then they tell you that the reason things are going bad in your life is because you don't have this this god in particular because there was religion there were different religions all over the continent all over south america all over these places they would force um you know the native people that they would force them to buy goods from them that nobody else wanted to buy at predetermined prices they would say they would do the work of like donkeys and mules and and all of that stuff but the main thing was they also came in with religion so everywhere in the world I can see this This vibe where people Have come in with religion Saying to you Hey All these bad things That are happening to you Are because You don't worship God And then It must have been weird Because the natives are like You are the bad thing That's happening to us They're like Yes exactly If you had prayed And you have penicillin This wouldn't be happening to you. I thought you didn't need penicillin because you can pray.
So if I go put on clothes, it's not cancer time yet. But also churches in the township, that's where you would see family structure.
Yes. That's where you'd see people dressed up nicely because parents used to leave very early.
So you never see them wearing nice clothes except for on a Sunday. Yeah.
And then also cars as well. You'd see your principal or the local doctor.
They would park their cars. So church has always been aspirational.
I don't think anything has changed from back in the day to now. also its missionaries offered people to go to university nelson mandela was that beneficiary so a lot of people that went and played cricket and went to school because of churches so a lot of people are very conflicted when it comes to religion and this yeah and this topic because somehow they benefited from it now they can't separate themselves from the lies of it as well and the oppression of it as well.
But people in other countries who are not part of the system of going to that,

because if you think of a church, such a small building for a big community,

so it's already on its, by merit, it already is an exclusive club of people.

The believers.

There's the believers that are believing in proxy.

There's the believers that are dedicated in coming here and giving money and dressing up and showing up. It's a place for people to gather once a week to come and say what they need to say.
So, Tina, the organization of it ended for us when church ended. But for people in power, it kept on continuing the whole week through.
Because people who run the church, run the church, they don't have other jobs. The believers have other jobs.
The Pope's job is to run the church. Yes, the other ones, it's for them to go and collect money

and come back and give it back to the Pope.

I'm conflicted when it comes to church

because I think...

You love church?

Yeah, I love it.

I love churches.

I don't love church.

No, no, no.

But I...

So, you know,

when I look at what we're experiencing

in the world today,

there's no denying that church and religion

is responsible for a lot of... I mean, you name it and it right pain the conflict what what what what what right birth control you name it whatever but when i look at what people's lives have become i can't help but wonder how much worse it's going to get when church falls away so go to any thriving european country church is gone now when i was in the netherlands all the churches that used to be churches are now yeah they've just turned into other things really yeah they've they've they've it's like there's a restaurant or this is a something it's just it's not a church cathedrals are gone no no no it's all it's not a church churches are dying in fact funny enough in the u.s um you know that story the you know when trump was saying like hey the haitians they're eating dogs they're eating cats that whole thing they so they went to that part of ohio and they interviewed people and not only were they saying that the haitian immigrants have revitalized the local economy they went to the church and then the pastor said the church was about to die he said the church was dead and now because of the Haitians The church is a thing again And it exists And they come there And they use it And there's a congregation And now the church makes money And they can be a community hub again Like it's So that's why I say I'm conflicted when it comes to church Because I think it's easy for us To dismiss things In general in life Like we always want to say Good, bad yes but to your point i can't think of i can't think of a place that is responsible for more community and connection than a church because a church you didn't need money to come to it as we live in a world where more and more clubs are predetermined you know like race class all these things religion was one of the few things Where you could opt in You could walk in off the street And say I want to be part of your club And the person would be like Yeah You're part of the club You know Like where do people connect For free With other humans On the internet Yeah but that's not connecting 100% is connecting Bro that's not connecting You know How you mentioned That's not connecting you think the internet is connecting

yes okay what level of connection you know how many times i've spoken to you on whatsapp which has five right at a time but imagine if we met on whatsapp it wouldn't be the same no i'm saying if we met on whatsapp but we have a couple of times no man met i'm saying if our initial on whatsapp our initial introduction as human beings was on whatsapp it wouldn't be this would be a video call right now if we had met on one time.

This guy.

I think where religion and church is concerned, and I hear your point about it almost feels like as humans we need structure. And I remember days when my parents were not at home.
Well, my dad was always not at home. But when my mom was not at home,

I would have the most amount of fun. When I was the youngest, I used to think I need this woman

here. But as soon as she said, there's food in the fridge, you know where the TV remote is,

have a good time. And I'm going to be gone for eight hours.
I was like, can you leave sooner?

The overtime there. Because in my world, that's when I realized I don't actually need someone to tell me what to do I learned that very early So some people need structure And some people don't But I think also people Deep and steeped in religion Have abdicated their responsibility To be good people To someone else To a higher power So when they go to a pastor When they go to their reverend And when they speak to God on their behalf, they

feel like they don't have to be good people.

They can always ask for forgiveness.

But I feel like if people who go to church took that same mentality that they have for

that hour and a half at church and actually spread it around in real life every day, day

to day, the world would be a better place.

Because I think love should be preached more than religion.

I don't think someone should tell us Jesus died on the cross for all of us to be here and then it ends there. Look, I don't think you're wrong, but stories help.
Like stories just help. So if you say to somebody, sacrifice is the most powerful thing you can do.
Someone's like, okay, what do you mean by that? I think there's something really powerful in someone saying, hey man, this stranger that you don't know died for you and your sins. There's a deep gratitude that comes with that.
Yeah, but the Bible is a big book of suffering. Yes.
But life is a big book of suffering. You see? So it's all about someone did something and then found redemption.
Someone did something and then found redemption. There's never someone just having a good time.
There's lots of people having a good time in the Bible. Who?'s wife turned into salt Job who was sold Because she looked back She looked back Job whose investments Were tarnished And then he had to Who? Show me one person In the Bible Who had a good time Who was someone Who had a good time People were in the bellies Of the whale People were kicked out of Eden Someone was asked They were having a good time Before they were kicked out of Eden Yeah Somewhere someone had to go It's me eh Yes but okay So what are you saying You want the Bible to Show me then a TV show Where nobody suffers This is entertainment But where are the good times In the Bible No there's lots of good times Where There's lots of good times There's lots of good times King David had good times Until what happened Until he died What did King David do Well I mean He killed Goliath That was his journey Of becoming David The king So he was a wise king Yes he was a wise king But then he also He was the one Who killed the guy's The woman's husband Right So he was having a good time Put him in the artillery Yes but he was having A good time But he was having But was the wife Having a good time Did the husband Have a good time Did the extended family Eugene The funeral cover Okay now let me ask you this Let me ask you this Which TV show has people having a good time The Apprentice No I'm joking No but seriously No one's having a good time I hear what you're saying But I mean like If you're telling stories There is no story that is worth listening to If it's just like I went there What I wanted to happen happened Yes And then I came back And everything is great That's not a story So then every sermon In church Obviously they're picking From this book And they decide Maybe we're going to Preach about Job Yes There's going to be How Job suffered And then how's you Suffering right now And how you can End your own suffering By doing what? By praying it away Okay so Because Job did not Pray away So I feel like God said to him Who are you to question me? I feel like Here what's happening Then he was like Yeah I feel like you're trying to get me Now to defend religion No no no Not at all But I'm not I'm trying to get you To defend the characters No In the great book of Oz I mean So what I'm But it's fine What I'm saying is It doesn't matter what the book is Okay Even if we talk about The Wizard of Oz right I don't need No but really really i don't need i don't need dorothy to be real yes i don't need the tin man to be real right i don't need the lion to be but these are the concepts that stick with me which of the way yeah if someone wrote me a textbook about courage about like decency about like then what but you remember it when it's a story you connect to it differently you understand it dor goes on a journey You get what I'm saying Like all of these characters Go on a journey And so I think I hear what you're saying And I agree In a perfect world Everyone would be able To do for themselves What they require Another to do for them But I don't think That's fundamentally What makes us human I think humans need that So that you as Eugene May not need somebody To tell you what to do Maybe in one Or some aspects of your life Yes Not in all Yeah but then there'll be Some places where you find There's a deep reward That comes from Somebody Guiding you And that for me Is the good of churches So like when a church When a church is run well Yes When a church is not like The leader Yeah When a church is not like The minister having a private jet And the congregation starving I'm saying when a church is run well It really just is A community center Where people come together They share like an idea Of problems They talk about how There's something on the other side Group counseling But yeah It's group counseling Yeah it's group counseling So why are you being so difficult when you know what it is? I think it's a podcast.

When?

You see what you just did now?

You just did the Bible to me.

You could have just come in

and made it good times,

but you brought suffering,

you brought strife,

you brought pain.

Why did you do that?

My life trumped my thirst. Oh, man.
I wanted to do them both At the same time Oh man Oh my sunburn Oh wow That's what you get Oh man I'm burnt eh What were you doing? I forgot that I could get this burnt What were you doing? I was playing pickleball You need to be in pickleball Because I've heard you speak You and I went to go Play paddleball For the first time Yeah, paddleball And I whacked myself In the face That's the problem with paddleball Is people hit themselves So, okay Oh, it's a thing Why didn't you tell me this that day? I didn't know until you started You were the first person Who let me know This was a trend You know what I mean? So, paddle ball is squash mixed with tennis and then pickle ball I would say is table tennis mixed with tennis. So, is the racket smaller? No, the racket is just different.
It's like a flat paddle type thing. It's like a piece of polycarbonate or something.
I don't know. It's like a big table tennis.
Also, that's where the similarities come in. Yeah, I would say that.
And And the ball. And the ball.
The way it sounds, the way it moves. It sounds? Yeah, because it does like a...
Oh, okay. So when it hits the...
Yeah, but the pedal has more of like a... By the way, if you want to buy my new album, Sounds of Racket Sports, you can find the link in the description were you playing were you playing bigger ball so we were playing the only the only time that people could come together with their schedules was at like 10 11 and then the UV index was 10 I just learned about UV indexes by the way yes so the UV index was 10 was 10 yeah and then I just got like a burn around my, you know? So the people that you were playing with, they were only free at around 10 in the morning? Yeah, it just happened to be.
Normally we play like when the sun is setting. Do all of your friends that you play pickleball with have jobs? Yes.
What do they do? You want everyone's job. The one who are there at a bar There's a lot of people You want everyone's jobs

Beningai

Someone works in marketing

Another person works in

I don't know

The finance industry

Another person's unemployed

Another person works in

Advertising

Another person works in

I don't know

Trading or something

Another person works on radio

Another person is a lawyer

How far must I go with this?

Beningai

How many were you?

10 or so

Yeah maybe

See you next time. something another person works on radio another person is a lawyer another how far must i go with this how many were you 10 or so yeah maybe yeah so you all coordinated that was a yeah you must come and join you'd love it i know you'd love it do you find it weird when you are hanging around with because you know how we grew up it's not like after we finished matric grade 12 yeah it's not like we went to university and studied a degree and then we went into the job market and gained experience when you look at the friends that you have let's say the group that you're playing pickleball with and you're like now you're a lawyer advertising whatever they've put in years into this career that they have and they're now asking someone can I not be around my friend and do fun things, which they actually really do enjoy.
Do you look at your friends? Because it happens to me when I still used to have friends with jobs. And I'd look at them and I'd go, I hacked the system.
Because I don't understand how they do it. When you hang out with them, how do you pretend to be normal? Because in that situation, you're not normal.
You could have done this at six in the morning but we're all normal because okay i think of it this i know what you mean yes but i think of it please tell the audience how you know how i mean it okay because i don't want to be the only guy who said it no because we all know yes but when you're with friends with when they start talking about david orders you're like yeah or contract renewals you're like, yeah. Or contract renewals, you're like, eh, eh, eh, eh.
Smoothie. Okay.
So, on the one side. Yes.
Being a comedian or being in any type of career where there is no boss slash job slash firing and hiring slash. Yes.
Is weird because you're right. There's nothing that forces you to go somewhere per se.
And there's also nothing that guarantees you anything per se. So there's no payday when you work in comedy.
There's no, oh, it's that time of the month. That's a guarantee.
No, but what I mean is there is none and there is. Like it's when is it coming? When is it not coming? How is it coming? How is it not, right? But I don't know.
If you think of you as being the business in a weird way, you do become more normal. I think when i meet people who run their own businesses or their own little companies or their own whatever thing yeah we feel the same because you work as much as you want to work and then your work is generally directly tied to you know how much money you make generally but just like me you have friends that are in business and then you have friends that are employed.
Yeah. Do you feel like you're code switched when you're with the two? What's the difference between the two? No.
Actually, you know what? I think one of the things that freed me the most was the more I spent time with professionals, the more I realized how much… You mean the employed? No, professionals. Like, you know, I studied law and I studied accounting and I studied… Like those kinds of people.
The more I realized That most people Are just winging it in life Yes Genuinely Yes Genuinely Genuinely Genuinely I think one of the worst things That ever happened to me in life Is I've gotten to meet Like some world leaders Where I go like Oh boy We're in trouble in the world Because we assume That most people's positions Come with a certain Apt and expertise that's applicable to everything. But we do most people, right? Yes, absolutely.
Like Elon Musk is a good example. Elon Musk is the richest man in the world.
Now, like doubling, you know, what is it, like 400 million or whatever now these days? The next person is 200 million. So like Elon, yeah, no, sorry, 400 billion.
Did I say million? Okay. So.
See this thinking small of yours. And I wonder about these things when we're sitting.
So Elon Musk, because of that, just like wanders into every space and is given the full latitude where nobody questions anything. So, you know, it's funny coming back to the Bible, actually.
One thing I appreciate about the Bible is that if you read it properly, it does show you the complexity of the human being. Yeah.
Right? So in the Bible, there are good people who then go on to do terrible things and live like a horrible life, you know, in the end there there are bad people who do have a good moment and and but you you see humanity in its full complexity is what i find if you like read the bible right so even the person that you go is a good guy you go like oh this is a good person read the bible and you're going to see there's parts of the story like they did what with their son they did what to their mom they did what to their neighbor they did then you're like damn't know if I can I mean I guess King David was good But also how could he do this Right And I think Some of that thinking is necessary for the world So When you're with your friends with normal jobs And then you're playing pickleball And then they tell you I have to go pick up someone at one Or when when they say, hey, my boss is there. Do you look away?

Do you,

when they look at a car in a car park and go,

yeah, that's nice.

Is there a part of you that joins into,

yeah, do you,

do you look at them and go,

yeah, that's also nice.

Because when you're not saying it's nice

because you can't afford it or you can't buy it or you can't have it You've probably driven it and enjoyed it So I'm trying to figure out What I'm trying to figure out Yeah Because that's what I struggled with I'm saying when people with normal jobs Like now when we're coming here By the way what jobs have you had in your life? I worked at a car park Doing what at a car park? There was uh before there were pairs you go tickets i introduced that system with my friends actually at the mall in pretoria so there used to be a booth at the end at the exit and entrance of every car park you come in there's a boom you come out there's a booth so i used to take the ticket and go oh damn was this your first job first first job yeah when I was 16 So that's what I did On weekends And school holidays

They give you the ticket

They pay

And then I calculate

Yeah, yeah

Yeah, and then the

How did you feel

How did you feel

When you saw your first

Automatic boom machine thing?

The pay on foot tickets

System

When people could do it

Without you

Yeah, I was happy

Really?

Yeah, because I was in matric

At that time

Then I was like

I don't need you

I'm out

And I left

Oh

But I was happy

So there wasn't a part of you

That was like

No, no, took our jobs No I was happy But one thing I always The one thing that changed my life Because I worked I started the car park at the mall And then when I reached matric I worked inside the mall What did you do in the mall? I worked at a CD store When those things still existed CD like music? Yeah Damn And then All your jobs are defunct Yeah and I also had You're basically like The grim reaper of jobs Yes when I come in When you see Eugene Coming to the job You must know it's over I'm even warning you In the future If you see Eugene show up And be like Hey guys I'm now gonna be working You're like This industry's on its way out

Cause you just went for like

Defunct job

After defunct job

Another defunct job

I worked at CNA

And my job was to

Mend the magazine counter

And then my job was to go there

And tell people who are on dates

While they're waiting for the movies

To start to stop paging

Through the magazine

And I was going

Oh you were one of those guys

And then one day

I caught a smart guy

I don as well so but the one day that changed my life is I met the guy that owned Brooklyn Mall a guy called Mr. Watson he used to come there once a week he drove a Jaguar his driver drove a Jaguar and he would sit at the back and his wife would be in a mink coat even in the summer and then one one day when they're entering the new system of pay on foot, and then he happened to be the guy next in line.
And then I helped his driver. And then I saw him and I remembered, I've seen this guy so many times.
Then he asked me what my name was and I told him, he asked me how old I am. I said, yeah.
He's like, so you do this every day? I'm like, no, no, not every day, only on holidays and weekends. And I said, what do you do? The audacity.
My manager was behind me going, and then he said, no, I business, but I live and I do things and I blah, blah, blah. Then I said, yeah, I want to do what you do.
I want to come to the mall during the week for no reason. Then he said, if you want it, you can do it.
I hate it when rich people say that. And then I only found out Later in life When I worked inside the mall That that was him Because now he was inside the mall Remember I was in the parking lot When I first met him Now I got a job inside the mall Then I met him And everyone was just Shop owners were always happy to see him The restaurateurs Were always happy to see him Then there's the guy That owned the mall And I think that was my first Real realization of what Being loved and being powerful That combination What it meant He was a very powerful man But he was loved But people loved him And I think There was a side of him A loved landlord Yeah He also loved them Because he didn't have to be there And that was a principle I took throughout my life And I've spoken to you About this before I said I only do things That I love I only hang out With people that I like I don't go out to force a lesson of pain on myself and try to test how far my patients can go with something i don't enjoy yeah so i'm only at places where i feel i'm wanted i'm also at places where i feel like i want to be and that was only from that interaction twice with this man who i've never met again damn so i like that you and not in like a dismissive way no absolutely but i love that you formed such a positive idea around this human being knowing the little that you did yes do you know what i mean yes that's what i wanted to take away from him no but i'm saying like that's a beautiful thing because this person you met you met them twice yeah and that's what you took from them? That's all I took from them.
Because I realized how much power there was. Because also, I started seeing it around.
Because obviously, if you work in a CD store, people come there to come buy music, but also to buy time. So they hang around.
So when I would see people at the mall at 11 in the morning, I would like, what do you do that allows you to be at the mall at 11? I want to do that. So it became my quest to come to interview people while they're buying their CDs or listening to me.
What was it about the mall that you were so…

It's abundant.

Okay.

Everything is there.

You don't go to the mall to window shop.

People go to the mall to look at things that they like and they can just buy them or they just go to hang out with people that they like.

The mall was a gathering place.

It was obviously 20 years ago. Are you sad that malls are dying now? To an extent, yeah.
I go to malls. I like going to malls.
I like walking at malls. I go to Mall of Africa all the time.
When I go to a new place, I go to a mall. Just in America, I haven't gotten a chance to go to it because I like Central Park malls.
I walk around and go to churches. But I like malls.
I like the feeling of abundance. I think that was was my first glimpse of it when I was working at the mall I knew at the end of the month what I wanted to do with my money because I was go to the mall no no things I'd see at the mall yeah I knew what sneakers I wanted I knew what headphones I was going to buy with my money I always enjoyed the feeling of abundance but also it taught me a certain discipline in life that just because it's there doesn't mean you must take it.
Sometimes you just have to wait. Sometimes you can just walk past it.
Sometimes the idea of being around it is even better than owning it. I could go into a sound system store and just listen and just have a good time.
I didn't have to take it home. And then they would come and say, sir, please, please, you can't be listening.
Please, please. Do you remember me? I was reading magazines in your store And remember what you told me Yeah Do you think that came from How you grew up? Like what was it about About abundance That connected with you In that way? Because you didn't grow up With abundance As cheesy as that sounds It was my mom My mom used to She was a nurse She's retired now She had four kids I was the one.
What she would do every month end was she would come to school and pick us up. Pick one up.
So we had a roster. So every month end, one child gets a turn to go to town with her.
Oh, damn. But she made a point to come before break at school, go to the principal's office.
Did your mom have a car? No. Okay.
No, because I was wondering why one. I was like, damn, this is a This is a crazy system Okay No so you're getting in a taxi Yes That's why she has to pick one No no also It's what's gonna happen in town When we get there What's gonna happen? You'll see Okay sorry And then she would come to school And then talk to the principal And then I'd be like There she is And then she'd come to my class Would you know who she's coming to fetch? Of course It's me No but you said there's a roster And you rotate No no we're not at the same school At the same time Oh okay okay got it got it So she'd come I thought your mom like Was doing like a lottery system No no no You all at the same school And then your mom would walk in You just see her head Past those big windows at school And then they were like Eugene Your mom is here Then I'd be like Oh man My mom Take my backpack And we're out And then we'd get then we'd high five each other

in the passage there

then we'd get in a taxi

and then off we'd go to town

then when we'd go to town

the first thing she did

was we'd go to the park

then we'd sit at the park

and then she'd say

think of anything that you want

that you want us to buy today

think of anything that you want

then I'd be like

buy

yes yes

yeah I want that one

beggar

ninja tight

yeah I want that

okay okay I'm done

she's like you're done

sharp

then we'd go

Thank you. Yes, yes.
Yeah, I want that one. Begur.
Ninja title. Yeah, I want that.
Okay, I'm done. She's like, you're done.
Sharp. Then we'd go and buy all the things that I wanted.
And then I realized how many things I passed going to the things that I wanted that were insignificant at that point. Then you buy all the things you want.
And then now we're doing groceries. Now we get to the nuts and balls of it.
Now she she buys groceries For the whole house And then what she used to do for all of us

Was she would buy a slab of chocolate

For all of us

And a tub of one liter ice cream

For all of us

That was ours to do as we wanted

So that's what she did

She showed me abundance

And my mom had a concept

When it's finished, it's finished

I've never struggled with loss

With loss of anything

Especially finances

We've done things with cars

And had fun and made money

And lost money and do whatever

I'm sorry. I've never struggled with loss With loss of anything Especially finances You've known We've done things with cars

And had fun

And made money

And lost money

And do whatever

I've never struggled

With that concept at all

Because she taught me

When it's there

It's there

When it's not

It's not

But as long as you're here

You can always make it again

But just like you pass

The things that you didn't want

At the store

To go to the things

That you wanted

Those things will always be there

So I've learned abundance from her

And what she would do is

She would take the rest

Of the month's money

And give it to you

Thank you. the store to go to the things that you wanted those things will always be there so i've i've learned abundance from her and what she would do is she would take the rest of the month's money and give it to you and then say when when someone needs something they're going to come fetch it from you so you understand that it's there but it's there to be used so the value of money for us was it buys bread it's it's a taxi ride for someone it's a school thing that popped up out of nowhere it's this it, it's that.
Someone coming to borrow money from the house, it's that. So the value of money was never to look at it as a thing that exists to make you feel good.
It was there to help facilitate things that just might come up in life. Some things are small, you end up with more money.
Some things are big, you end up with less money. But it was there.
So she would go, if it was there when it was needed, it did its job job so I look at life like that and I'm glad for those lessons in life because I've had a chance to look around and that's why I was asking you about friends with employment I was not making fun of them at all because I have friends like that as well who would say I have a day off a friend of mine on our way here called me but I didn't answer his phone but he sent me a text before he's saying do you want to go ride in the mountain tomorrow because I'm day off? But I'm like, my life doesn't work like that. I can go ride any day.
But if you have to think of it like that, then it means your world is centered like that. Yeah.
I think, I think both of them come with pros and cons. Absolutely.
So as much as you can say your life, you don't require a day off to do something.

But the gift and the curse of it is that freedom is hard work.

I've experienced this, let's say on a really flippant level.

If I go on a vacation and everything is planned, I have a great time.

I know where I'm supposed to go.

I know what time I have to be there. I go to the museum.
Then I go to this. I'm having a great time.
I know where I'm supposed to go. I know what time I have to be there.
I'll go to the museum. Then I go to this.
Then I go to, I'm having a great time. I'm like, oh, wow.
Because I'm not thinking, I'm not. And when you're not thinking, you don't make the wrong choice.
When you don't make the wrong choice, you don't have regret. You don't feel, there's none of that.
You don't go, did I do it or did I not do it, right? And I think there's a little bit of that when you are employed versus if if you are like Doing your own thing Is that when you are

Employed

There's a certain level

Of someone's telling you

What you have to do

On what day

By what time

And that's liberating

In many ways

It's like having a personal trainer

It's liberating

Have you ever walked into a gym

And just looked at the weights

I don't go to gym

But you've never walked into a gym

Gym is kindergarten

For people with regrets

Is that a no or yes

Thank you. I don't go to gym but you've never walked into a gym gym is kindergarten for people with regrets is that a no or yes yes you walked into a gym oh man so I get what you're saying um well I did but I didn't know that thing about I didn't know that about your mom that about your mom.
I knew that vibe with your mom. It's funny.
I'm trying to think of how I process loss. So okay.
Help me understand this. Are you saying that you are not loss averse? Or are you saying that when you experience loss, you like whatever? Yes them Yeah I feel like my My upbringing My conditioning And also the way I view life Has made me Survive loss better I I have things that I love That I don't use You have things that you love That you don't use Yes Okay I have things that I love that I've lost Okay Both of those things are not with me currently Or I can choose not to be using them or with them Does it make sense? Yeah okay So I walk past my bike all the time in the morning I choose Your motorbike Yes Okay I choose And sometimes I can go four months without riding the one But it's there But if I wake up one day and it's no longer there, the feeling of it not being there won't be horrible to me.
Oh, damn. Because I deal with it all the time.
I look at my daughter. She turns 16.
Now started grade 11. My daughter is 16 now.
Yes. She's turning 17 in September.
You know, this is probably one of the reasons I don't want kids. They just make time move, man.
Yes. The only time I like time is moved yes is when I think of how old people's children are dude your daughter to me is still like a five-year-old yes because you met me a year before she was born yeah yes so to me she's still yeah that five-year-old that you saw smart five-year-old, 16.
Yeah, 16.

So I look at her and I look at how she thinks and how she processes things.

And she's taught me that letting go is actually the best thing you can do.

She's been with me, obviously, forever.

And we've lived in different places and different houses.

And she's at different rooms.

And she's changed schools two, three times in her life. But the way she moves around the universe amazes me all the time.

She looks at life

as something that's going to happen anyway.

She looks at life as something

that's going to happen anyway.

Yeah, she doesn't look at it as a thing

that's going to happen if she does something.

Yeah, okay.

I understand what you mean.

So I've started to look at life like that.

When I see something new and exciting,

I move towards it.

When I was at the parking lot, I walked around cars because I love cars. That was the best part of my job.
When I see something new and exciting, I move towards it. When I was at the parking lot,

I walked around cars

because I love cars.

That was the best part of my job.

When I went into the mall,

I faced abundance.

When it happened once a month

when I was young

or once after four months

when my mom takes me to town,

now it happened every day.

When I started doing comedy,

I realized you can hang out

with your friends

and laugh all the time.

We had more fun offstage

than onstage.

We would travel

and then someone pays for it.

We would sleep in a hotel

and someone pays for it.

And then people would pay

to hear me talk for 15 minutes

Thank you. and laugh all the time.
We had more fun offstage than onstage. We would travel and then someone pays for it.
We would sleep in a hotel and someone pays for it. And then people would pay to hear me talk for 15 minutes and I would go back and I would still have fun and time with my friends.
So all of my jobs and my choices were all linked to my passions. I've never had a job I hated.
I've never had a job that landed me in places I didn't want to be in. I've been fortunate in that way.
I'm abundant in so many. Our friendship led me to so much abundance.
I got to experience being in a private jet with you. I got to experience in a penthouse.
Man, I got to experience those things through you, through our friendship and our love for comedy and our pure natural gift that was just to stand in front of people and have a good time. So when I close my checking account every night, that's what I do.
I look at the things and the people that I love and I go, did they bring me closer to my passions and my joy and things that I would have never come close to had I not had these things? And I go, your job is done. So it's not different from the water of cash my mom had.
And then she would say, if someone comes and needs something, take it from there. Don't ask too many questions.
They came they came because there's a need but they know that you have it so i send everyone to you and i say he has it go get it it's an interesting lesson to learn so i i choose to do that we're going to continue this conversation right after this short break this episode is brought to you by tools and weapons the podcast hosted podcast hosted by Microsoft's vice chair and president, Brad Smith.

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Uber, on the way So you can be On your own way To what matters most To you Uber On our way I know that I'm Loss averse Yes You know But I think I'm also lucky That I haven't lost Much in life Like I realized this When my grandmother died It was a crazy realization Yeah I've never lost a loved one It was a huge loss Like I've genuinely Never lost a loved one And then I started thinking Differently about Everyone in my life Who has Because I was like Damn this is For me it was even like It felt like a slither Of a feeling That another human being Could have Because my grandmother Died at age of 96 96 97 so you know what i mean in a weird way i wasn't around for all of it but like you have like 100 years to prepare you know like we always think of 100 as this magical number but i was like we knew she was going and she was healthy till the day she died died in her sleep the way you dream of peacefully gone go to bed good night everybody see you tomorrow haha jokes on you there's no tomorrow she was gone you know what i mean but the feeling that i had was like i couldn't believe what i was experiencing like the grief the loss the all of that so are you saying that you don't have that experience you don't have that feeling i do but i process it quicker because i know it was going to happen anyway so it's my choice To live in it So when it happens I immerse myself In the feeling And then let the feeling Pass through me So what I used to do Before I would let the things Get stored in me I had this huge anxiety When I was growing up Of what's going to happen To me after school And it ruined Most of my high school life I never had fun Literally after school Like every you go what's happening when when the bell rings no when school finishes oh like school as a concept because high school when high school finishes high school is done and i look back and i have these gaps in my memory of what fun i could have had in high school had i not had that worry if someone had a crystal ball to show me how my life would have turned out i would have enjoyed every moment of of that school. It was the best time I've ever had.
But I was too concerned. You know, I was worried about what's going to happen.
Because in my world, people who did well were people who were educated, who were successful, you know, who studied something and got a job. So my chances were lower and lower and lower as I saw myself getting to grade 11.
Because of the school you went to. Exactly.
And then I knew that my chances of being successful. So when I was in a car park, I was like, I can be happy by proxy.
I'm here. I'm looking at these fancy cars.
I'm around them all day long. And I get paid to be here.
I love music. I listen to music and then I get paid to be here.
I walk around the mall. I get paid to be here.
I do comedy. I get paid to do this.
I chose a path. It was either do the worrying and die or do what I love and just live.
But I chose that because it was my only option. I had to learn the lessons and remember them from my mom.
So I just carried them through. So you're able to apply that to inanimate and animate objects.
So the loss of anything and anyone. Yes.
Do you process it the same or is there a difference? Give me an example of something you've lost, like a thing that you loved versus a person that you've loved. And then I want to understand how you process it.
Or is it the exact same way? It's the exact same way. Because remember, if I lose a watch that I loved and I wore every day, right? Sentimental value is I remember the things that I did to get the watch.

Right. I remember the places I wore the watch in.
Those memories are with me. So the watch is with

me because I'd never wore it to my sleep. I never wore it to a shower.
So the watch is with me.

When my son passed away, I also realized in the three months, I spent the most amount of time with him to even the day before he passed away. It was just the two of us for a few hours.
The last picture I took was when we were just together in a room. How old was he when he passed away? Three months.
Damn. So when I think of that loss loss Whether it's a watch or a loved one I think of what do I miss about not having this person around Grief is an extended phase of regret Things that we never got to do with that person I got to do all I could do at the time that he had Had I been absent for three months he passed away in three months, I would have been so distraught because I would have nothing to miss.
But now I miss him, the person that he was, because I knew him. If I lose my watch, I miss my watch.
I don't miss the things that the watch did for me. It's an object.
It told time, another object can tell time. If it was about our money, I can buy another one.
But him, there's no more time that I could have extended with him. It ran its course.
I'm not dealing with guilt of something I did wrong or something I could have done better. But I was going, I wish we could do more.
But when I look at my daughter, I go, we can do more. She's here now.
Oh, wow. Right? If I look at a watch, I go, there are more watches.
I can go buy another one. But I can't cry for things that never happened.
How do you think that affected how you are a father with your daughter after losing your son? She became my parent. We have this running joke, her and I, where I say, in our life before this one, she was my mom.
And then now I get to pay her back.

But it looks like she still has to do it again.

She was just a happy person every time.

I would look forward to the day she comes back from school.

Then she would high five me and tell me all sorts of stories.

She had no time for my sadness.

Like I would be like, today she'd be like, let me tell you.

Then she would go on and on. Then it became my exercise to remember her friends' names.

Because now I didn't want to be left behind in a story. and i was like this person is is laughing she's she's smiling and she only met her brother the day he passed away at the hospital when he was certified dead damn so this kid who faced that what i had i had three months of seeing him because he was incubated but he couldn't have contact because he was born too early.
So obviously a child would have brought germs into the house. So he couldn't be in the same room with her.
So the only time you saw her was then. So I compared our losses.
And in retrospect, you must think of it this way. As a sibling, she would have had more time with him than I would have ever had as a parent.
He would have outlived me. So she has never had that three months with him.
But I had. So what right did I have to wallow in self-pity when all I could be doing now is telling her about how great this person was? Because she's telling me about strangers at school and about how great they are.
And here we are. And then she was there teaching me how to be strong.
She was my mom again with that word of cash saying, yeah, spend it on things that matter. And if someone comes and asks for it, give it to them generously.
Don't ask questions, just share. She was that person for me and she still is for me.
When I was walking down now to come into the car, she was like, do you have your phone? And I was like, yes. You have something for your lips? Yes.
Do you have a pot bank? Yes. She was like, fit check.
There's a beautiful saying. I don't remember where I heard this I think it was actually Esther Perel And we're having this conversation And we're talking about like children and life and everything And she said one of the most beautiful things ever She said One of the most underappreciated Aspects of Having a child is that it forces you to forget yourself yeah and i remember being like well wait what do you mean and she said no she said you you take for granted that until you are responsible for the life of another human being or another creature really yes the only life you're responsible for is your own and so you you live the most selfish of existences Whether you like it or not I'm hungry I'm tired I'm sad I'm happy I want to do this I do not want to do this It's only when you introduce another human being Or living being into your life That you're responsible for That you have to If you are any type of decent person You neglect that now You forego it Yeah you forego it That's a better word Yeah you forego it It's a different type of meaningful And it's like a In a weird way It's a stupid thing But I think of people When they get dogs It's pretty crazy Especially understandable Yeah because a person gets a dog And then now they have to go And walk the dog They have to go outside They have to But in weird way, the have to pushes them out of themselves.

So there's a day you didn't want to go for a walk.

Now you're walking.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

And I see that with people and their kids,

especially people who have either learned the lesson

or have had the opportunity to fully learn the lesson.

Absolutely, yeah.

They forget themselves

and in a weird way then get to meet

other versions of themselves that they forgot.

Life is about us meeting our teachers. Life does not have built-in meaning.
Life is meaningless. And you see that when you lock yourself in a room and do nothing.
Everything else happened without you. Traffic happened, restaurants were open.
Until you get out the room and interact with the world, then meaning happens. Then you walked a long distance, then you ate this great thing, then you played pickleball with your friends.
So life has no built-in meaning. We give it meaning.
But what makes life interesting is we're here to learn lessons and we keep meeting our teachers along the way. And one of the reasons why I think our friendship, you and I, has endured so long, and it's actually almost the same age as my daughter's relationship, is because of your childlike nature.
You look at the world with wonder. You don't look at anything as impossible.
I remember one time you and I were driving somewhere and we were stuck in traffic and you said, Eugene. And I said, yes.
Because that's how we talk to each other. You said, you know what we must do? And I said, what? He said, we must buy a plane.
Oh, that sounds like me. I said, eh? He said, yes, we must buy a plane.
And I was like, planes expensive He said, yeah, yeah, but they're small ones You know, we can buy a Cessna You know what we can do? If four comedians come together And we put a hundred, a hundred, a hundred, a hundred If we need to go somewhere, eh? Then we can just fly the plane Then I was like, but what if we need to go different? He said, yeah, then we'll book shows Then we can all fly in together We can fly in, fly out Then we'll make it home again You're like, like yeah and i was like okay there are many times that you and i did things i mean we never did yes just for anyone listening but this was because we were very far from even the idea of buying a plane but fast forward 13 years later no no i'm with you you see what i'm saying so you've always had that would the day you immigrated to america i remember i was at your house you said come over and then i came then I came. Then we played Army of Two.
And then you're like, oh, I have to go now. Then I was like, where are you going? You're like, I'm going to America.
Then I was like, is there a restaurant? Can I come too? What's going on? And you're like, no, no, I'm actually, oh, snap. Then you packed your bag, you switched off the thing, and you're like, oh, you can have these games.
I'm not going to play them anymore. Then I was like, are you really leaving? You're like, yeah.
Then I was like, but what time do you need to be there? Like, I need to be there 30 minutes ago. Then there you were in great tracksuit pants.
You were gone. You went to go start a new life and a new career elsewhere.
And I always looked at you and I go, I was telling a friend of mine, when you first started to become prominent in American culture, and I always looked at you and I go I was telling a friend of mine when you first started to become prominent in American culture yeah or in the American space I said this guy would have been successful even though he was a plumber it comedy did not help him become successful TV did not help him become successful thank you man with anything it would have been fine because he just looks at things like a kid he looks and he goes tinkers he opens at the back and he touches this thing With America he was like Where's the most comedy clubs Where's the most comedy You narrow it down To a place Okay how many shows Can I do Okay how many people Can I see Okay how many How many How many You look at things like that And I always look at your life And I go If I was like you I would have been where you are If you were like me You would have been where I am The wonder And the beauty of how we are as two people is we're not alike. That's why you and I can sit and speak about everything but comedy.
We speak about cars. We speak about life.
So I'll always have time for a person who looks at life like that. And I think we've both shared that.
So it's funny. I think of, when I think of comedy and how we shared it, it was the same thing.
We both had a deep love for the idea of this.

Because what made comedy specifically unique at that time in South Africa was it wasn't a thing.

Like a thing thing.

Do you know what I mean?

If you said to anyone in South Africa, your parents, your friends, anyone, I'm going to be a comedian.

I'm going to do comedy.

People were like, what is that?

And there was like a few people, not even a a generation a few people a few years ahead of us who were doing it you know the david gow's and the john flissmases and all these but it wasn't like a a long wasn't a thing yeah it wasn't a thing wasn't a you know a long history tradition so what i loved was we were a ragt tag group of enthusiasts you know like hobbyists that's

what we were doing when we were doing comedy were these people standing in a field with homemade

airplanes and we're throwing them and being like how far can yours go so what i've learned is if

you turn the wings like this and if you get what i'm saying and it's funny because i think you have

kept that more than anybody i know you might say i have childlike wanda you are the most hobby

Thank you. Everything from trail riding motorbikes, racing, race bikes on a track, shooting guns at a range.
Started golf now started golf wow there we go golf then you went through like a running phase like you were doing like 20 kilometers 10 kilometers then you I mean now that I say it out loud I feel like you're turning into a white person this has been a long journey I'm actually only now that I'm saying it, like looking at it, I'm like, wait a minute. Eugene.
Oh, man. When I look at what you're doing.
Oh, boy. No, but you, but you, yeah.
You and her taught me that. Adventure.
That's what it is. Go for it.
That's what it is. You've always been the adventure person.
Yeah. You show me that all the time.

When I see you doing something,

I'm like,

adventure does pay off because you go on this wild

and you look at...

Yeah, but no, no.

But where we're different though

is, and this is why I admire you,

where we're different is you...

It's an admiration contest.

Yeah.

And we'll see who wins.

You, you...

I think one thing

that's always inspired me about you...

I think I just threw myself

from that competition.

Ryan is out.

There's no admiration. I hold for any of you.
And you know what, Ryan? That's always inspired me about you. I just screwed myself from that competition.
Ryan is out. There's no admiration I hold for any of you.
And you know what Ryan that's what I love about you is you don't need to compete with other people. That's why I admire you.
And now it's time for today's self-care toolkit segment brought to you by Amazon. Whether it's delivering medication to your door with Amazon Pharmacy or 24-7 virtual care with Amazon One Medical, thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful.
Okay, can we talk about comfort food when you're sick? Because I feel like that's when logic leaves the building, building all logic like you'd think being sick would make you eat something mild and healthy no no for some reason when i'm under the weather i'm like you know what sounds good right now a giant plate of fries and three different kinds of sauce you mix the sauce and it confuses the disease i don't know there's something about being sick that makes your cravings totally unhinged maybe maybe it's just me and it's different for everyone for some people it's toast and tea i've heard uh for others it's mac and cheese or pho and ice cream yes i've actually heard that ice cream with pho while coughing i think part of it is is just nostalgia you know maybe it's our brains wanting to feel better And food is memory That one soup your grandmother made Or whatever your parents gave you as a kid When you stayed home from school Maybe that's what it is Psychological reward for sickness So maybe it's not about the food making you better Maybe it's just about making you feel better And that's just as important Mmm important. So profound.
Well, we hope you gave

you some ideas for your self-care routine. Today's self-care toolkit segment was brought to you by Amazon.
Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful. you've always inspired me and you've always reminded me to focus on being successful at living life which is something that i think sometimes we forget as people because i've always been good at living work you know i mean like i'm really good at that plumbing electrician you name it there's literally i remember someone once said to me they're like what would you do

if you wouldn't do comedy

and I was like

I'm like anything

I would do anything

because

you'd be great at it

because I'm like

yeah anything

something has to be done

you know I remember

my mom said to me

one day

that's good

something has to be done

it's true

something has to be done

I love that

my mom and I

we were driving

I don't know

from church or somewhere

it was probably from church

we only really drove

to church together

but we're in the car

and my mom said to me

she's like really angry

and she's like

Thank you. We were driving, I don't know, from church or somewhere.
It was probably from church. We only really drove to church together.
But we're in the car.

And my mom said to me, she's like really angry.

And she's like, look at these.

How can people be unemployed?

And I was like, mom, what do you mean?

How can people be unemployed?

Sometimes.

And then my mom said, there's always something to be done.

My mom said to me, she said, you look in your life.

She said, before you say there's nothing to be done,

just go for a walk and look around you. There's something to be done.
I was a walk And look around you There's something to be done I was a teenager At this time But I was like Mom that's not true Sometimes there's nothing And then while we were driving She said Okay let's look on the street What needs to be done I was like What do you mean She's like Look at the street What needs to be done I was like I don't know And then she said Does that grass look like It's been cut I was like no She's like so clearly That needs to be done

She said so

If you go to that house

And you say let me cut your grass

And I said yeah

But what if they don't pay me

She said yeah

Then you can still cut it though

It will be done

It'll be done

And she said

Then you'll go

And you'll cut

And you'll cut

And she said eventually

Eventually

Somebody's gonna pay you

To cut grass

She said go

And look for things to be done

Because there's always

Something to be done

The phrase my mom hated

And I still like

I actually have to like

Work on the opposite now is

Thank you. She said go and look for things to be done Because there's always something to be done The phrase my mom hated And I still like I actually have to like work on the opposite now Is whenever my mom Like my mom the phrase she hated was There's nothing to do I have nothing to do She's like there's always something to be done What do you mean? But what that meant was It meant that I've always been Completely comfortable In work In In work But the doing in one specific place But you Have always shown me Like I mean First time I rode Like mountain bikes in South Africa Was with you Do you know what I mean Like And I think funny enough that's maybe one of the things that you blessed me with in comedy is had i not met you because we we literally started comedy what a week apart 100 percent in parallel universes literally you were there that day and i wasn't there and i was there that day you were not there but literally a week apart we started comedy in the same venue in the same city in the same country right but i think the the thing you blessed me with in comedy is you always reminded me to keep it as a hobby like always you've almost always been allergic to it being a job in fact every time people have tried to make it a job i almost feel like you get like you you get offended in a weird way and had you not done that with me i think i would have let comedy be a job and then if you let that happen oftentimes the joy and the wonder that you experience in the thing goes away yes it's a have to yeah it's a have to and not a want to our job as humans we have to tap into our dna and remember why we are here why you think we're here? To live and fix the things that we didn't do the last time.
I think our lives are a continuous journey. Our souls know why we're here.
This body is just a vessel. We're just here to remember.
It's time when we find passions and we find places that we're familiar with, but we don't know from where. It's because we've been here before.
We're trying to remember. And that's what makes life interesting for me when i go to a place i'm like this is interesting i'm like i remember there must have been something great here that happened somewhere sometime yeah that brings me back here again and and i live in that world of wonder where i go i've been here before i've done this thing before that's why when i lose something i'm like i must have had it before and I had it again and it was time for it to go so something can happen now.

I need to feel something.

My job in this world with this vessel, with this body, with all of the friends and the environment that it has brought me in is to feel something.

If I feel happy, I know I'm feeling.

You know, it's so funny you say this.

one of the

most transformative

thoughts I've

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as a person

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I was in school I was in school I was in school as a person was i was i think i was in sweden and i was on a mushroom trip right and you know you you're having this beautiful experience connecting with yourself connecting with others but one of the things that really hit me was the idea of energy right And I'm not a woo-woo person per se. I'm not very spiritual.
I think you're more spiritual than I am. No.
No, I think you are, and in a good way. And I think you remind me of that sometimes.
I can be very didactic. Ironically, to go back to the Bible, if you look at the Trinity, it's like, yeah, there's the mind, there and then there's the spirit this thing that exists in a world that you can't really you don't think it and you don't feel it but it is right and the thought that I had was energy everything that's happening in the universe is energy right but like actual like even physics energy I'm not saying like ah it's energy I'm saying it's actual energy right yeah but I'm not saying what did you add a sound effect is that album still available oh it's energy no I don't mean that the sound effect I don't mean not even dismissive to that but I don't mean that I get you and I was thinking to myself once it almost feels like our purpose and our idea and it's what's funny that you just said that is to express the idea of what it means to be by being in relation to.
So I think of light as a good example. I always find it crazy because physics is such a complicated thing.
My brain, I really struggle to understand this. I listen to it and I remember things, but I go, I don't understand it.
like One of the craziest concepts To me is the fact that I'm not seeing you I'm seeing the light That is reflected off you Right So when we see a flower We're not seeing the flower really We're seeing the light That the flower is reflecting And when you expand that Sort of infinitely You know Throughout time You go That is what we all are What we all are is reflections of energy and light That is helping us To experience the thing That is happening And then to your point I remember thinking What if the idea Of what we call God or this thing that we've All you know in different religions Differentevers, we want to call it. What if it itself is trying to experience the thing and that's why everything is? Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. It makes total sense.
It's just that as people, we avoid that because it will now make us question everything that we are. The choices that we made, the people that The places that we've been Yeah and I think of All of that as an experiment Like I go It's a giant experiment We're in a pituit dish Yeah And someone is busy going I think of it as a giant experiment It's 100% true You know It's 100% true Like I actually I think of it like When scientists Shoot lasers Or they shoot like Even a telescope What you're doing is is you're getting a reflection of something, right? You're getting light from a far distance away and you're getting information from it.
And I wondered like we could literally be the lasers that are being sent to come back with information. So you driving the way you drove, in a weird way, I know this sounds crazy, but in a weird way, you're teaching the entire human race how to drive.
Yes. And then you then you eating like i always go i'm so grateful to people who ate certain foods and died so that i know which foods i can eat i think of it for pets i'm like the first person that tried to tame a will a wolf now we have puppies it's pretty crazy yeah by the way have you seen doing it for you trevor so you can walk in a mall with this thing one day have you seen the those guys Who still do that now? Who tried to tame wolves? No, not try Who tame wolves? Not tame, Eugene What do you mean? There's these videos of people Who are out in the mountains Then they see wolves Then they call the wolves like dogs And then the wolf is not Obviously, it's not a dog But it like them, it approaches them, and it's actually quite amenable to you as a person.
And then they start playing with it. And then you see the wolf going, what is this that I'm experiencing? This is good.
Yeah, why is this clothed monkey making me feel good? Yes. Like, that's what the wolf is experiencing.
And then they say that this is probably how it happened, et cetera, et cetera. Domestication.
etc yeah domestication etc but but it's it's amazing to see that stuff it's still like that did you say we're dating wow look one concept that blew my mind away um and also changed my life was when i read somewhere, I don't remember where, where it says everything that you're experiencing is what you want to experience. So everyone in my life is a character that I created for me to have the sum total of a life experience with feelings and emotions.
Damn. And a quick fast forward to the journey that I need.
What I signed up for before I was born, I knew which characters must come into play for me to achieve what I need to achieve. So for you to be here in a room with me is because I wanted it to happen.
In the back of my mind, somewhere in my lesson, in my past life, this should have happened so that I can lead to something else. Same with you.
So we keep meeting these soul families, a group of five individuals that will make a great impact in your life as you go along. So even if it's the first stage of your life, there'll be five that you can mention that matter.
As an adolescent, there'll be five that matter. In your career, there'll be five that matter.
Those are soul groups. So those are people that come in into your life and they exist purely for your assistance.
They're here to push you. They're here to teach you.
Even heartbreak is a lesson. Not all good time.
That's's why I was asking you in the beginning Why do you think pain features so much in the Bible? It's because heartbreak is an accelerant Hurt and pain and loss Is an accelerant to feeling something You can be comfortable all your life And not feel anything else But as soon as you feel loss and pain You will remember that you also had a good time So that's what pain and suffering is for But But suffering is voluntary. So suffering, you choose it and use it as a medication.
You take it in doses so that you can remember how good you have it. Someone in a hospital right now who has no chance of leaving, doesn't have this privilege that you and I have to walk downstairs, to walk around, get in the car, press buttons.
And that's all they want at this moment. But they've had it maybe for 50 years and never cared for it.
But the suffering accelerated the memory of the good times that they had. So if you think about life like that, you can walk around the mall and see hundreds of people.
But if you think about how many people you've called and sat with and chatted with, in most cases, they won't exceed number five. It's that group of people that you can rely on and trust, and they always accelerate you to go further.
And those are the people that will bring heartache, they'll bring laughter, they'll bring lessons, they'll bring admiration and adoration at the same time because you need those two to balance. As much as you admire someone, someone needs to adore you.
That's when the base romantic relationships work, when there's a khrutman in the group. Someone gets admired and someone adores the other person.
They adore the fact that they admire them. And they admire them for the fact that they adored them.
So that's how things work. This balance that we're always seeking.
And just knowing that once you start feeling something, then something is happening. Growth is pain.
Kids go through that all the time. Oh, my elbow.
Oh, my back. Because they're growing.
Then they go and rest and everything feels better again.

But as adults, what do we do? We just go and try to make pain not exist. Because we feel like when we're feeling pain, we failed.
And when you're feeling pain, you're growing. When you're tired, like we walked the other time and we felt it.
Yeah, then we did something. I think it's the ultimate dilemma though.
100%. I'll tell you why I think it's the ultimate dilemma.
is because I think we should be careful

to not make life about pain. And I'm not saying you're saying that by the way.
No, absolutely. But I have noticed there's been a, and maybe this is not a new thing, but just generally I've noticed a lot of people seem to use pain as the meaning.
Do you know what I mean? They go, that's why we're here. And I'm like, no, and then and i'm like no no pain is part of the experience but i think we should be careful to not make pain the experience yes you get what i'm saying and the reason i say this is because we should also remember in the same way that we cannot only exist in fun good easy comfortable warm we also don only exist in fun, good, easy, comfortable, warm.
We also don't exist in cold, boring, hard, painful. We don't exist like that.
Look at animals throughout Africa. Why do they migrate? Think of the fundamental concept of migration.
It's an animal going, oh, this land is about to become arid. It is about to become cold.
It is about to become unlivable. We're going to go seek out another place.
And oftentimes, to your point, that journey is hard. But the thing that they're seeking is not hard.
And so sometimes I get like a little, there's like a little spidey sense that hits me the way where way where i go like sometimes i go like guys i think we're learning the wrong lesson or we're applying the lesson incorrectly because people be like i'm looking for the pain and i'm you're not saying that but i'm saying you go like pain's a lesson i love that but people go no i look for pain i look for the thing i look then i'm like no no no no no no i argue looking for the thing on the other side, looking for the rainbow, getting to it is the pain.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, the journey.

That is the pain.

You want to go and see the view from the highest peak.

Yes.

The hike is the pain.

But I get a little thrown off when people now sell the pain and they make it seem like that is the, it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

Understand that that is part of it. You cannot get to a tall peak Without experiencing the pain of the hike And when you get there As you say funny enough I love it That's a beautiful way to put it It's an accelerant That pain of the walk Makes you appreciate the view even more Because you're like wow I can't believe this Because I don't get to see it And my knees My legs My body My feeling My whatever You know you know the thing is the average person does not know the difference between suffering and pain the first time I came across that was it was Viktor Frankl I think really yeah uh Viktor Frankl who was a psychotherapist and he was a holocaust survivor and I remember reading his work and he developed a lot of it I think in the hol Holocaust.
And he said what he learned there was pain is real,

suffering is a choice.

And a lot of people were angry at this.

And he said, no.

And he said, I realized this in the concentration camp.

He said, these Nazis were there

and they were wanting to exterminate me and my people.

And he said, but every day I was like,

I can smile if I want to smile

and I can choose to

enjoy my day now people if you say that people were like that's crazy but he was like no no no he's like this to me is real yes this part of my reality i'm defining this conversation yeah and and you know you know when you realize how real it is to your point the pain and suffering I always think of it in traffic

depending on how you feel when you realize how real it is to your point, the pain and suffering, I always think of it in traffic.

Depending on how you feel,

traffic is either just a thing that is happening

or it is the end of your life.

I even think of it like this, funny enough.

A podcast is a great example.

When I have a podcast that I'm listening to to that I'm enjoying, there is no traffic. There's literally no traffic.
I'm listening to a conversation and I'm driving. Sometimes I get angry that I get there sooner than I was anticipating because I haven't finished the episode.
Now I'm sitting in a parking lot going, oh man. Now I have to leave these friends of mine.
Oh man. Oh man.
I thought there was going to be more traffic. Yeah, but you get what I'm saying? Now I've either reached the house that I was going to or I've reached the destination, the office that I was driving.
But I'm angry that there wasn't enough of the traffic because I enjoy listening in a car. It's a perspective.
You know what I'm saying? But if I'm trying to get somewhere, now all of a sudden I don't have a podcast and traffic is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And so to your point, funny enough, that's where it's pain versus suffering.
Right? The pain is real. Yes, your Wi-Fi is slow.
But you're not suffering. Yes.
So animals know this better than anyone. So they migrate because they know that if they stay here, they're going to suffer.
And that's optional. So they walk towards the pain so they can avoid the suffering.
So that's what the thing is. So it's an accelerant in that way that you need to walk towards it.
But if you stay, you suffer. So suffering is always regret of things you would have done had you endured the pain.
Yo, damn, that's just have to I thought I was talking To a comedian Yo I wasn't prepared for this Oh No I wasn't ready That's a deep one man So you're there doing it Yeah no But just say that again So suffering Yeah Is if you stay And then pain Is what you go through When you walk away From suffering So it's like you choose Do you Because it's Because it's going to be regret. No, you can apply it to everything.
Yeah, it's going to be regret and suffering. Going to the gym is painful.
Painful. Being overweight is suffering.
Being unhealthy and dying. Yeah.
And making other people have to live through that. No, and not being able to walk upstairs, carry your kids, lifting your suffering.
Yes. Should I have met, should I have cancelled and said, ah, I'm busy.
And I didn't go. Now I'm going to sit here and suffer and regret.
We could have been doing this. I could have just been here.
I walked towards it. I had to do this.
I had to do that. Yeah, I don't want to get up now.
Oh, should I get dressed now? Oh, let me go. Then I'm here.
Then the pain. Then I'm here at the mountaintop, like you said, and I'm looking at this view.
Animals do it instinctually. They know that if they stay, they suffer.
If they move, they feel pain. But it's ultimately worth it Because it's an accelerant to good times Always when you have to have a little bit of pain The reward is far greater So when people have become numb, like you said That's where the pain starts That's where the meanness in people is That's where the impatience is That's where the intolerance is Because we now avoid suffering and pain at the same time Now you're numb so that's why i say when the day finishes and i'm in pain yeah i know that there's something nice not when i have regret i shouldn't have gone there why did i even go yeah i shouldn't have gone why but if i'm going oh my neck oh this oh you're my finger because of doing this all day oh this and that i've never regret days.
I always wake up the next morning and go, I know exactly why this part is so. But because that pain accelerated me to learn a new skill and learn how this person...
We've sat in cars so many times, you and I. And we don't like sitting in cars, but we love cars.
In the car, we know that we play music in the background and I've always criticized your music choice. But it conversation because we're not this thing it allows conversation I was playing there Tchaikovsky and all these and I'm like Trevor is this an elevator like sort of and then we're there we have these and we're in a contained environment in traffic like you said but we don't see the traffic and we we get to have these conversations extendedly but then when at myself, I'm like, I hate being in a car for that long.
But when we're together, we're having this conversation. It accelerated that for us.
It facilitated that. So when we start looking at people, events, time, our bodies and objects as an accelerant for us to remember who we really are and what we're here to do, then life becomes this journey where regrets don't exist

because everything that happened that I didn't enjoy

was accelerating me to my growth.

And why would I hate something that made me grow?

I loved all of it.

That one, missing that half, most of the day of school that day,

had homework to catch up on.

I couldn't trade that for the world when I'm sitting with my mom.

I often think when I was 10 years old,

my mom had just turned almost 40.

She was young.

Thank you. sitting with my mom.
I often think when I was 10 years old, my mom had just turned almost 40. She was young.
She took the time. She could have hung out with her friends.
I'm 43 right now. She could have hung out with her friends, you know? It is weird to think about how young our parents were.
Yeah, but she chose to. Yeah.
She made sure she swapped shifts with someone. She took that shift.
She would take me and they would hang out. She'd listen to...
So I think of those times and I go go if i think of the homework that piled up and my friends were telling me about the soccer match that they had after school bloody blah and i'm thinking about the time i laid in the grass with my mom in the park and i'm like i couldn't swap that for the world now i appreciate the effort she put into making sure that she accelerates my growth by feeling that little bit of pain of homework catch-up she accelerated me in knowing who i really am i love nature I love nature. I love being at the outside.
I love being at the park. I love laughing.
I love dreaming and just lying there and looking up and having a good time. So when I look at my life in my late 30s and 40s, and I look at my life in my 10s, and I'm like, there was always grass.
There was always a park. I was at Burgers Park, a park in Pretoria that's derelict.
And I got to spend time in the most prestigious park in the world that people dream of going to and i got to lie in the grass there and daydream again about my life and things that i thought of three years ago in that park i have them now so i i'm not wrong somewhere somehow there's energy that's vibrating towards helping me get to where i'm going what do you what do you do when you feel disconnected from that because I maybe and maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm even projecting but I think one of the things I've noticed you and I both share is there'll be moments where we feel disconnected from that and then it's like you don't want to go outside you don't want to be part of the world and you don't want to see the thing and you don't you know what I mean how do you how do you get back to that I look at pictures phones are the greatest invention ever I look at places that I've been to and I remember the feelings that I had there then I go what is the quickest way I can replicate this if I can't go there then I'll find a patch of grass and I'll find a park then I'll find sunshine I'll wear my walking shoes and I'll start walking for kilometers and kilometers you've got walking shoes yes what are they adidas shoes But I use them for walking It's just walking shoes No they're running shoes But I use them for walking Oh I thought it's like This is the deal they can do No no Like if someone chased you You're like hey buddy You chose the wrong day man Oh snap Oh man I got my walking shoes on Oh I would have gotten away from you Oh man When I look at those And I put them on I know I'm to walk now and I know what what that means to me and what I'll remember the thing that we do worst in our lives is not to remember we must remember you and I have memories between us we don't have anything physical yeah nothing at all but we have memories we go that guy there was this time When we did this Then we laugh Then we move on to other people

And other things

And then after that

We remember things that they did

And we come back to the memory again

Remember that thing

So that's all I have

So when I feel I

Dive deep into that hole

Of suffering

Then I realize

This is self-imposed

My bike is outside

My thing is there

My daughter is in the other room

My PlayStation

So I go

Why are you choosing this?

And I go

Yeah but

But I go

Look at my sneakers

And I go

I can wear those

To go outside right now

Thank you. outside my thing is there my daughter is in the other room yeah my playstation so i go why are you choosing this and i go yeah but yeah but i go look at my sneakers and i go i can wear those to go outside right now and it's within my grasp and reach and i tell you now whenever i walk i see the cars that i love i see the i see a porsche 911 walk driving and i'm going if i was in my room i would never seen this is this this a coincidence There's a So there's a French philosopher He talks about luck And the surface areas Of luck Wow Right I know I'm going to butcher some of it But I remember it For the most part Essentially what he talked about This was like A long time ago But what he talked about Was how Luck is always happening it's continuous okay however there are different types of luck that you can choose to participate in and so he said the first type of luck is dumb luck pure chance has nothing to do with you and that luck is who you were born to when you were born where you were born what you look look like.
There's certain things where it's like, hey man. Things that are outside of your control.
Completely outside of your control. You were born in the Philippines.
Okay, you were born in the Philippines. You were born in Estonia.
Okay, you were born in Estonia. That's it.
That's like a dumb luck. Then the second type of luck that he talks about is luck of motion.
And this is where things start to get interesting. So he goes, there's luck that happens to you merely because you start moving.
Both literally and figuratively. There's luck of motion.
So if you lie in bed all day You can never bump into somebody By chance

In the mall

On the street

None of it

Motion

Motion

Yeah

But now remember

It's very important to

To remind people

And myself all the time

As I go like

Remember luck can be good or bad

So I'm not saying this is like

A good thing

I'm just saying it is

Right

Because if you don't get out of bed

You can never stub your toe

Right

Like that yeah

So it goes both ways

Let's go. Good thing I'm just saying it is Right Because if you don't Get out of bed You can never stub your toe Right Like that yeah So it goes both ways As soon as you start To increase your motion There is going to be A higher probability Of luck happening In your life So you've created Your luck And lucky people Generally Are people Who try and facilitate More motion in their lives Because they consider Themselves lucky So you'll go Why did you buy A raffle ticket i'm a lucky kind of guy then another person's like i don't have any luck that's why i don't even bother buying it but that motion sets in place the effect that you then experience then you have the third one which i think is like a lack of awareness they have different names for but lack of awareness and that one is literally What you Ironically You see Let's say you did your motion You left your house You went outside The Porsche drives by So you've got to experience the Porsche right? Wrong You experienced it because of what? You were aware it was there Do you know what I mean? So now you go Wow I'm so lucky that a Porsche drove by And a Porsche is my favorite car Yeah But you're also lucky Because you were aware of it If you were walking around With your head in your phone And headphones on Now you weren't aware Of what was happening So there's some people who go I'm so lucky to have Such great people in my life Yes but you have to be aware That you have great people In your life Otherwise you're not going to be lucky To have great people in your life Awarenessness is one of the key ones.
The awareness of luck. And that again, that awareness can go the other way.
If you are aware of the negative more than you are aware of the positive, you will feel like you have terrible people in your life. You have terrible things happening to you.
You live in a terrible country. You know what I mean? People like that.
I'm amazed by the way when I travel the world, regardless of where where I go There are some people Who think they're living In the greatest country ever And some people who think They're living in the worst country In the same country Doesn't matter where I go I've talked to Americans Who say This is Oh my god I can't believe I'm so lucky to be in America I mean have you seen this country And then I talk to Americans Who are like I can't I mean This is the worst country I wish I could live anywhere else Then I'm like the two of you are in the same place. What are you aware of that the other one isn't? Or what are you choosing to be aware of? So that's the luck.
You've got dumb luck, luck of motion, luck of awareness. And then the last one, this reminds me of you, is luck of uniqueness or luck of specialization.
And this is a luck that'll only happen to you if you choose to engage in something that requires an active and specialized thought. You are way less likely to meet Lionel Messi if you are not in football.
Do you know what I mean? Not saying you will or won't, but I'm saying you're way less likely to meet Lionel Messi if you're not in football. You're way less likely to meet a Supreme Court Justice of the United States if you're not in law.
Less likely. And Trevor Noah is less likely to meet Eugene Cosa if they're not both in comedy.
Comedy was our uniqueness. Can I add something after your dumb luck? When I came back from PE two years ago, I place On the internet Without even looking Without even viewing it I just moved in We just moved from The beach house The place you live in now Yes And then you bought A house Right 12 minutes away from Yeah Dumb luck But no that wasn't Dumb luck That was luck of motion Yes Because you You chose a place Yes And I chose a place Yes But the last one To your point The most important one was Even us Ryan If you think about it Like comedy Comedy We've chosen to like Like hone in on this thing Like a You know I remember I remember telling Dave Chappelle We Where were I think it was like His 50th birthday Where this happened 50th birthday Or one of the other shows And anytime Dave is performing somewhere And I can go I'll'll go And then Dave loves comedy And he loves comedians So Dave says to me, he's like, yo, are you jumping on? And I was like, no, I'm not jumping on And he's like, why not? Then I was like, Dave, I'm not jumping on Because I didn't come to do comedy I came to watch comedy And more importantly, I came to watch you as Dave Chappelle I'm here to enjoy the show Then he's like, no, but you got to jump on You got on Why you not jump And he was like And then I I had to like Think about it hard Cause he didn't He sort of didn't understand He was like Do you not wanna jump on Cause it's my show I was like Are you crazy Then I realized what it was I was like Dave You have to understand That I also love this thing Beyond me doing it So much That getting to come and Like appreciate Cause I see how much you love it i drive joy so if i come here and do the comedy some of my awareness is dull because i'm thinking of myself i'm thinking of my jokes i'm thinking of my point of view my performance yeah was i dressed for this all of it i'm thinking like i'm thinking of me and now i get to miss you you as Dave Chappelle I get to miss Arguably the greatest comedian

Of like

Our generation

Because I just wasn't aware

Because I was

I was self aware

You know what I mean

Don't go anywhere

Because we got more

What now

After this

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Academy Award winner Forrest Whittaker returns as Bumpy Johnson, facing his deadliest battle yet for Harlem's future. When ruthless newcomer Frank Lucas arrives, everything changes.
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the room service of medical care. Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful Those steps that you've just mentioned What I would do before this conversation I would club them all together into motion Okay, got it I would look at it as I did something And they did something And then we did.
Something happened. I wouldn't look at it as the way that you broke it down.
It makes so much sense now. And I also feel like we've become lazy to dream.
I think most of us, that's the one thing we have for free. Our imagination, our dreams.
Just lay back and just think of what you want and it will appear in front of you. And I learned this weird concept I was telling this friend of mine, I said, everything that I've had that I enjoyed and that I acquired immediately was I never put time to it.
I said, I have this thing and I have it now. And I can't wait to touch it and feel it.
And that thing happened. But there's things that I've always put far ahead in my life.
And I said, yeah, one day, one day, one day. Because I've been non-specific About what I want The thing keeps Becoming a dream And I said I'm very aware That also That can be An addiction on itself Postponing your own joy Success and happiness Into the future Because somehow You feel like You yourself You're undeserving You're not worthy You're not ready So you keep saying One day I'm going to make a lot of money.
One day I'm, what's a lot of money?

And then you keep saying that because you don't want to be,

because you want to commit yourself to it.

You know, same way I don't write my set down.

There's things I'd never wanted to commit myself to.

And now I'm specific.

If I want to see a 9-11 red one, I'll say to myself and I'll see a red one.

And I'll see it twice in a day.

And I'll be like, yeah, I saw it because now I'm aware.

Now you've made me aware.

That it's my awareness that's heightened. But I also was in motion.
And uniqueness. And uniqueness.
And I was specific. And I also get specific about what I want.
So I'm learning that now recently. That I must be specific with what I want.
I even see it in my mind's eye. Can I tell you what I think it is though? Yes.
So I argue That most of the time

The reason we're not specific

With what we want Is because we do not know What we want I believe that All of us as human beings We do not know what we want I think we know What we don't want But we don't know what we want And I think if you live life Thinking you know what you want You're going to find yourself Constantly disappointed When you get there and realizing that it is not doing what you thought it would do yes right so all of us grow up you're a young boy maybe some girls as well depending on society whatever you go i want a ferrari when i grow up but nobody has ever sat us down to say why why do you as a four-year- who has never paid any bill in your life, think you want a Ferrari? He doesn't even know how to drive. Why do you think you want a Ferrari? Because it's fast and because it's red.
And because it's like, yeah, but why? What are all those things going to do? What is it that you... and then what happens in life boys grow into men

who then work to get towards something girls grow into women who work towards something

and then they get the thing they get the ferrari they get the wedding they get the big house job

they get the job the salary they get all these things and then what happens there's a deep

emptiness inside you and that deep emptiness is the realization that the thing that you want

We'll be right back. get all these things and then what happens there's a deep emptiness inside you and that deep emptiness is the realization that the thing that you want has not made you feel like you thought it would make you feel because you never had it so how would you know that it would make you feel that way because you've never had it and this is the thing that i literally realized this for my life and then i i challenge my friends and anyone i talked to about this they They'll go man I really want that Thing then I go why do you want it no because

You know if I can man if I

Can get that job then I go like okay then what

Will happen I'm just gonna then I'll feel

Like my life is then I'm like you're lying

You're lying

Do you know how I know you're lying because

You've never had the job so how do you know that the job will make you feel

That way

We all want to feel a certain way. But we don't know what the thing is that will complement or help us feel that way.
We don't know. That's what brings me to the initial subject that we started with when I said when we hang out with people that have normal jobs.
Yeah. Because we get to experience their milestones from the outside.
So when someone, that's what I said to you, when someone looks at a car and says, that's a nice car. Yeah.
You and I remember a time when they looked at another car and said, nice car. Oh, yeah.
When we hear them going, I can't get off because of, but we, you and I remember a time when they wanted the gig. Yeah.
But now, I hope I get this job. So that's why I said this is coming full circle that's that's where i find when i'm with friends that have structured normal jobs that's where i get to measure what people's needs really are versus what they want are because they wanted this thing so bad they dreamt about it they they knew if they reach this level and get this kind of a job and position,

this is what it means.

But when I'm with them now,

I don't have the time for this anymore.

You know how much things here cost.

The thing that they dreamt about the most.

You know, it's so funny.

You are,

I mean, I've never said this to anyone

because it would be weird,

but you are one of the reasons

I left The Daily Show.

Phew.

I'm sorry.

Not. Because you knew how he felt about people with jobs what an evil man no you you know why there's a conversation you and I had many years ago maybe like 10 years ago somewhere there and you said to me again as usual we're in a car we were driving somewhere and you said make sure you learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you and i was like what i was like yo this is deep because like we were going to buy nandos or something i was like this is a strange is this like a euphemism for are you telling me you're not gonna pay what is happening here and then you said no you said you must learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you i was like what are you talking about and oftentimes you'll say crazy things to me and i'm like we're friends so i just listen but when you when you broke it down you said if you have never starved yourself you do not know what it is like to starve.
And so when you are starved by somebody else

or a situation,

you will now be panicking

because you don't know what it is like to starve.

You know what I mean?

So to use like a silly analogy,

if you lift weights,

the day you need to lift something,

you are familiar with lifting as a concept. Yeah, you've to yourself you've made yourself lift heavy things so now when you have to lift a heavy thing you know how to lift a heavy thing and you're not like ah it might still be heavy but at least you know how to lift things right and when you said that to me it stuck with me and we talked a little bit more about and we talked a little bit more about it and I remember when I was Going to leave the daily show

The thing that's When you said that to me, it stuck with me. And we talked a little bit more about it.
And we talked a little bit more about it. And I remember when I was going to leave the Daily Show,

the thing that stuck with me was how very few people

considered the notion that I could want something

that wasn't what was supposed to be wanted.

People were like, but why would you leave? It's the Daily Show the daily show then i was like yeah and it's a beautiful thing they're like yeah but why would you leave then i'm like why do i leave a park i go to a beautiful park but now what so you want me to just live at central park now yeah but it's so stunning i would there are people you say that i think you would but you you're like yeah just because it's beautiful doesn't mean that it never has to end you know coming back to what you're saying about endings yes like literally i'm not even joking you taught me that like in so many ways i was like yeah but when when does it end and it does i'm not saying it you have to do it to make it end but it's like yeah but when does it end and it was so interesting having some of interesting. Having some of the.
Some conversations with people. At the Daily Show.
Some people who. I said to them.
I said. So.
Are you going to be here forever? And then they would just look at me. And go.
Oh. Well actually.
And some people were honest enough. To say.
Well actually. There's this project.
That I was actually going to leave. And I'm thinking of doing.
So I'm like. So you two.
At some point. Are going to leave.
Even like a viewer, there's some people who will say, I used to watch the show all the time. I really loved you on it.
Why did you leave? Then I go, but you used to watch. When did you stop? You left.
Then they go, well, I stopped after the pandemic and then, but I loved the show. Then I'm like, yes, but you stopped watching and you didn't now hate me.
You just stopped watching and that's beautiful. So if you are able to acknowledge And understand That things are going to start Things are going to end Things are going to be in between Like why? Because if you're not careful You're no longer aware You're numb It was Can I tell you I'm eternally Eternally grateful When I think of the daily show I go like man It was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life And I've told you about It's like You want to talk about pain One of the hardest things I've ever experienced In my life And also one of the most Rewarding experiences I've ever ever had in my life But to stay in it beyond the pain

now just turns it into

like a suffering

now

now you're choosing this pain

you know what I mean

I think it was actually

Letterman

I think it was

Letterman

who said in his

in his farewell

this is when he was

announcing that he was leaving

like they say in this business

you know

you

you gotta know when it's time

to move on

you gotta know when it's time to leave

and

for me

Thank you. this is when he was announcing that he was leaving it's like they say in this business you know you you got to know when it's time to move on you got to know when it's time to leave and and um for me that day came and i stayed 15 years longer and today i'm announcing that i'm leaving but i like and it was such a it was a good joke but it was like it's a poignant thing that not many people could like really but i connected to that i was like Oh yeah man It can end And how many of us Can truly say That we have exercised Our choice to end a thing When we could end a thing When we wanted to Because most of the time Life is doing things for you Yes When does the ride end? Oh when it ends They tell you to get off A roller coaster You they're like Please They're like Hey man get off So you never get to choose to end a roller coaster ride they tell you that the restaurant is closing so you don't get to choose to like walk out when you want to walk out sorry we need this table they tell you the movie's over you don't get to choose netflix tells you the season is finished you don't choose and if you look at it we are experiencing fewer and fewer opportunities to choose when to end the thing and when to begin a thing which is a weird beautiful blessing to have because there's one thing we don't choose when to end and when to begin and that's life you don't choose when your life is going to begin and you don't choose for the most part when your life is going to end and so in in like a genuinely that's one of the things that you've always like i've always looked at you like a crazy person but in a good way i always think my friends genuinely most of my friends i think are crazy for different reasons but i've i looked at you and i go this this guy's crazy why did he do he just so he walked away so he stopped that so he's not doing that so he's not and you're like yeah it is crazy only because it's not normal but it's not crazy because it doesn't make sense people react to extremities all the time because people want to feel.
People don't know that they want to feel something. When they watch a football match, they want to feel something.
They want to feel joy or disappointment. There's two teams playing.
There's nothing worse than a boring, goalless draw. Yes, when people come to your show, they want to feel something.
Sometimes they think it's laughter, but it's not. It's actually getting to know the person next to them.
They want to be around normal people and hear normal conversation. People want to feel.
So when people that are seen as outliers are reacting towards the universe from what they're feeling on the inside as individuals, the whole spectrum of people that they know gets to feel something simultaneously. So when are acting on something that you're feeling inside as an individual as trevor around people myriads of them that know you that you don't know yeah when you're acting on your feelings it ripples towards everyone else that knows you you don't have to know them and then they start feeling something they feel disappointment they feel anger they feel like you're being ungrateful because they're in places where they are feeling something they don't want to, they are suffering.
When are you going, no, the pain of knowing that you will feel this way is worth it for me because staying was suffering. As an individual, I had to make this decision to have this pain so I can end the suffering, so I can walk towards something else.
So we get to feel that from other people. A lot lot of people felt it i was lucky enough to be around at the daily show on your last week and i could see the reaction of how it made people feel i could feel the rumblings of the audiences before the take started to happen yeah i could sit with you at the office well before you went on the show then we got to walk in the streets and go have.
And all I knew was you made the right decision. And I wish people that know you and I could know you the way I know you because they would know that that what you did came from a good place.
I knew that you took care of the people that work closely with you and some people that will never know that you took care of them in that space, in that job, in that particular environment. You left an everlasting legacy of kindness, of working together, of having everyone have a voice.
I hope so. I was in one of your writing sessions and I would feel like the energy say, something! And then you'd be like, yeah, say.
But if you don't want to also say, or can also not say. But that's the culture that you bred.
But those are the things that people are going to queue up and tell you about. That's what you know innately inside of you as a human being that my reactions are always going to cause a ripple effect to people that know me that i don't know but they're only reacting towards who i am not what i am because you've changed what you were you were a host but who you are is trevor you've changed what you were a boss but who you are is a friend you've changed all of were, a boss.
But who you are is a friend. You've changed all of those things.
And of course, there was going to be suffering. There was going to be suffering from people who don't want to let you go.
But you let them go first because you're teaching them. A lot of what you guys are speaking about, a lot of them touch very similar to Buddhist principles of non-attachment, living in the now now without worrying too much about the future and how thoughts of suffering yes are suffering it's suffering it is suffering so even if you're not suffering you're thinking about suffering you're suffering but i think the main one that you guys are speaking about that's like the same thing over and over is the thought of non-attachment so non-attachment to the job you know non-attachment to to to to financial things and worldly things and or titles or titles you know a lot of what you guys speaking about i think is non-attachment you know you know one of one of the one of the biggest lessons i learned in processing leaving the daily show was when i'd have conversations with people on the outside and on the inside but I realized something that we oftentimes haven't been taught to go back to the beginning of our conversation about loss and life we haven't been taught that things will end and we haven't been taught to say goodbye In a healthy way So what we do is We wait For the thing to be gone Then we start saying goodbye Like I'm eternally Grateful to my mom And to my gran For fully Preparing me for the fact that my gran was going to die Even though she wasn't On her deathbed It was like hey man it's imminent And my gran would even joke about it But now it meant that while we were talking We were saying goodbye Like a goodbye I'm going back to New York Okay bye I might not see you again Now you're like damn Now you almost want to be like don't say that It's like but why? I might not see you again Because if you learn how to say goodbye When the thing is still there You get to say goodbye As opposed to always regretting that you never got to say goodbye Stave yourself Yeah and Yeah.
And I think about this with like all of it. I go.
I think about like even us as people in relationships. You know.
Like how many of us are guilty of. Feeling that something is fading for another person.
And not saying goodbye. Instead.
Letting the thing die in front of them. And not.
Do you get what because we just we haven't been taught that yeah relationship objects like think about companies what have they taught people what have companies taught people no you must say goodbye when you cannot work anymore the company will retire you when it doesn't want you yeah but why don't you retire the company you can't afford it you can't afford to starve yourself you're not taught loss. Why don't you buy your company a pen and say like, hey man, congrats on having me for 10 years.
I'm out. I like that.
Buy the company a pen. Yeah.
That's funny. But just think about how we've been taught it.
You know what I mean? Yes. And by the way, it's actually interesting how like, have you seen how emotionally reactive people get to people who choose like suicide? Of course.
And I'm not saying saying sad suicide. You know what I mean? Because I think there's a difference between people who are experiencing a deep depression or they feel like the world is ending.
And someone has said it beautifully. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
That's a different thing. I'm talking about somebody who goes, I have terminal cancer you seen how How allergic people are to Yeah euthanasia

How like

How allergic people are sometimes

No

You

And it's like the person goes like

Hey man

I have a terminal illness

I'm still able to move

I'm still able to laugh

I'm still able

And I'm enjoying these things

And you know what guys

I've had a great time

I'm out

I had a good run

Yo

People are like

No

How dare you

You've got to fight

And you've got to this

And they go like

No no no no no

I'm fine

Thank you. I've had a great time.
I'm out. I had a good run.
Yo, people are like, no, how dare you? You've got to fight and you've got to this. And they go like, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm fine. I've got to say goodbye.
And I want you to say goodbye. And I want you to see me like this.
But the reaction that people give them, man, and I understand it both ways, by the way. I don't think one is wrong or right, but I understand it.
I understand somebody going, no, I want to say goodbye when I'm ready but to your point and i know i'm guilty of this sometimes you'll never be ready because you you're not practicing saying goodbye you haven't starved yourself and so if you haven't practiced it and if you don't know how to say goodbye you'll never be ready because then when are you ready for somebody to die always but I'm saying? You're never ready. Yeah.
And then when it happens, you then now experience the thing. And now you had a gravestone going like, I didn't say goodbye.
I wish I could have said this. I wish I could have said this.
You know? So it's really weird how literally you're one of those people who, where I go like, yeah, no, Eugene, if there's one thing you taught me in life, it's like, yo, man, practice saying goodbye. And I think, unfortunately, and in some ways fortunately, because there's silver linings, I guess, life has really amplified the lesson that you've taught me through the losses you've experienced.
How did that last day feel? Did it feel like you're walking out and you could come back again anytime?

Did it feel like you've walked out of this door before?

Or did you know you're leaving the chapter behind?

The week my grandmother died

was the first and only week

I've canceled shows at The Daily Show.

In the seven years?

Yeah.

Thank you. was the first and only week I've canceled shows at The Daily Show.
In the seven years? Yeah. I had an appendix surgery.
I came back to work. I missed one day of work, came back post-surgery.
I've had knee surgeries. I've worked, you name it, through the pandemic, all of it.
My grandmother dying was the first time I canceled shows at The Daily Show. And I'll never forget, like, when I said, hey, man, we're canceling the shows, the network said, okay, we'll get the correspondence to host.
And then I was like, no, we're going to cancel the shows. And they said, we understand that you're grieving, but yeah, we're going to like, in a weird way, like the show must go on.
And I remember thinking, my grandmother came on and did an episode for The Daily Show. Like we needed an episode.
We were in South Africa. My grandmother welcomed us into her house and she's not even that kind of person but it was amazing to see i was like these people i was like she's part of this thing i'm not just the one mourning the daily show has to mourn this thing in some way because it was a part of it you know and so that all happened and i'm i'm at home and i was crying like I've never cried in my life.
And then everyone came over. And I'll never forget this.
David Kibuka came over. Joseph Opio came over.
David Meyer came over. Friends from, one from America, one from Uganda, one from South Africa.
And they all came over to the house. Eugene, we sat there and and I cried and then we laughed harder than I've I can ever remember laughing in my entire life we laughed talking about families and funerals and death and you know grandmothers and like we yo man we laughed and cried and laughed and like you you don't even understand and i i remember the feeling that i was having in that moment was a feeling of deep gratitude that i had got to experience this human being who was my gran and in a similar way that definitely didn't have the same level of profoundness.
I felt that on the last day of the Daily Show. There are few things more blessed in this life than being able to grieve when something is still around.
Because grief is unprocessed joy. It's all rushing into you at the same time.

Mixed emotion.

Beyond mixed, it's all of it at the same time.

It's every smile, every hug, every kiss, every laugh,

every meal, it's all coming in at the same time.

And that's why your body feels that, I feel.

It's all of it at the same time.

Every hug.

Prompted by one motion.

Yo, man, one. One thing happened, and now it all comes to it at the same time.
Every hug. Prompted by one motion.
Yo man, one. Which is death.
One. One thing happened and now it all comes to you at the same time.
But do you know how wonderful it is to experience that when the thing is still alive? Do you know what I mean? That's what I got to do with The Daily Show. The show didn't get cancelled.
I didn't get fired. What a beautiful way to move move on you're still healthy we got yeah we got to grieve it but still be there we got to you know it's it's that phrase which i i it's always stuck with me and i love it i go like man i wish we could all attend each other's funerals while we're still alive because then what would we say while i'm here what how would we connect you know how many people you're going to see at your friend's funeral that you didn't connect with because you were just like but now at the funeral you'll be like hey man we should we should get that drink hey man we should why don't we hang out anymore because why didn't we say that's exactly wish we but why don't we have a funeral while the person is still alive now we're going to go there and tell the person how we feel about them.
Now we're going to tell a funny story about how wonderful they are as a person and the stupidest thing they ever did. Now we're going to connect with each other.
But why do we only wait for death to remember life? And so it's not impossible. It's not impossible.
I just think it's hard because as you say, we get lazy. We're taught we don't have to do it.

We've been sold this idea that it's not, you never, it'll come.

No, but like genuinely, I go try it.

You know, we had this type of conversation, but not obviously in this depth.

While we were standing there, you came back and we were standing at your place.

And then I looked at the shoes by the door and I was like, wow, there's so many shoes here.

And then you looked at me and you said, Eugene, people are not supposed to walk in with shoes in this house This is my place in New York Then I was like oh As I looked at my feet And I saw my shoes on my feet And It's just that you know this Obviously personally I'm a very private person On social media Yeah I don't put out my life But If there's one thing If there's one thing That I wish people knew About you A few things How nice you are As a human being Oh shucks Thanks How How generous you are As a person And i'm talking about your time and how loving you are to everyone because i think us all as your friends you know our stories personally as your friends we don't feel like we are part of a group everyone feels like they know you and you know them and at when i experienced you at work, remember, I know you from Horror Cafe. I know you from your polo.
I know you from great treksuit pants running to the airport. I'm going to start a new life and a new career.
And then I get to see the same guy at the helm of this huge institution, what became an institution in American pop culture. And I see the same guy who asks the PA, have you eaten? Is there something that I can do? Did you order that thing? Is that thing? Thank you so much.
I appreciate you. Good night.
And I see you doing that. And I'm going, I wish people could see this and know this about you, how nice and caring of a person you are.
I've never caught you on a bad day. They've never caught you on a bad day i've never caught you on a bad day you are a genuinely nice person and i always whenever i think of what we are going to do when you say let's hang out i always go i know what i'm going to get here if there's one thing that's going to happen here is i'm going to experience generosity kindness not a bad word about anyone and just pure some bad words bad words.
Pure childlike joy. And you know, people around you will never have less of that ever.
As long as you're still here and the day you're gone. Because we're all going to go at some point.
But this is what you must know about yourself. Is you have it in you.
It's not a thing that you earn through money, through fame, through success. You were born into it.
That's why your grandmother asked you to lead a prayer. She saw something in you that a lot of the world was soon to see.
And she just wanted you to take center stage and claim it. That there's an inner power in you that makes people gravitate towards you, that make people go, I believe in what you're saying.
And a lot of what you're experiencing is because of that. You were groomed to be that person of a shining beacon.
You bring bring your friends together you brought an office together and now here you are bringing all of us together and these people will get to hear what i have to say because of you so you must be proud of yourself when you go to bed when you're closing your checking account like i usually do take that one thing off be proud of yourself for being a nice and kind person who has no bad word to say about anyone. Damn Eugene.
Yeah. I mean it.
You know it's funny

you just made me realize Why I want to do this series of my favorite people Yeah Is literally because of what we said Yeah It's like one People often ask me why I am the way I am Then I go like I'm not the way I am I'm just a manifestation of the way we are And the we is all the people in my life Correct You know so I go like I'm not the way I am I'm just a manifestation of The way we are

And the we is

All the people in my life

Correct

You know

So I go

You can't watch my comedy

And not know Eugene Cosa

You know what I'm saying

You can't see how I think about life

And not see Eugene Cosa

You can't

Like there's

And everyone in my life

Has that in a different way

Absolutely

Do you know what I'm saying

But you like

Yeah man

You blessed me again

Because you've like

Clearly given me an idea

Of like why

Because I knew why

I wanted to do this

Thank you. You know what I'm saying? But you like, yeah, man, you blessed me again because you've like clearly given me an idea of like why.

Because I knew why

I wanted to do this.

But I didn't know

like,

or rather I knew

what I wanted to do.

I myself didn't know

like the why.

And I think this is,

this is the why.

Thank you, my friend.

Thank you.

This is dope.

Now let's go say

some bad words about people.

I know

we've shouted out Buddhism

here, but we haven't shouted

out Tabism. He was the

first one who told us to say goodbye.

Tab taught us

to say goodbye.

And he's here with us now

in this room. Bye!

This was dope. Thanks, Eugene.
What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan.
Our senior producer is Jess Hackl. Claire Slaughter is our producer.

Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown.

Thank you so much for listening.

Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now? Thank you.