Christiana Gave Birth (Again)! [VIDEO]

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This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. I need to get into MMA.
I need to, I want more hobbies. Is MMA a hobby? No, to watch, because I've been watching Football's The premiership is depressing For a United fan The premiership is not depressing For a United fan There we go Say it with your chest Say it with your chest It's a hard time I've been introducing So I have all these Manu kits for the For the kids Because one of my good friends Sent them F me and he's Nigerian.
So he's like,

there was a time when this meant excellence.

And he's like,

I feel ashamed

that I'm sending you

your kids this thing

that means they're losers.

I mean,

it's the same

as when you get

the outfit

of a fighter

and they get popped

for steroids that week

and you're like,

I just, I already ordered them. Wait already ordered them wait wait wait fighters have kits uh kind of you can get you can get like the uh whatchamacallit like the outfit that their team wears in the walkout okay you can get the zip up and the pants and everything and you can get and then you can get their personal merch too yeah but because they can't have all independent like puma nike whatever yeah yeah they can have the ufc official thing and then everything else is from their site so then some people make like their own kit that you can buy yeah and you'll like buy you'll buy the kit and then they'll be like the fight is off due to a high volume of hgh found in the system.
And now you're wearing the kit. And you're like.
I feel like, you know, I was thinking that. So I'm a Liverpool fan.
And not just because it's going well now. We've had some tough times.
That's why I feel for you. I mean, it was good under Klopp as well.
Yeah, but I was around before that. I was around when we were still like scrounging around.
Do you know what I mean? I haven't been the longest Liverpool fan, but I've been a fan for long enough that I don't remember like winning things. Do you know what I mean? I remember your glory days.
Even before, yeah, well not before Gerard, but I mean like, because there was like the peak Gerard, where he was crushing it and then he had the slip, which ended it for us very painfully. But I i was like around you know what i was actually thinking funny enough is i was going like i i i found myself thinking that sports in that way is in some ways like the perfect analogy for for nation states okay you know like if you think about it right now america is the man united of the world oh god that's that's hard to hear as a united.
Oh, I didn't know which way you were going to take that. No, but it's true.
It's true. It's true.
Think about it. I hope my dads are not listening.
Think about this. Think about this, right? Whether you like America or not, you have to admit there was a point where America was champion of the world without like no no hesitation you name it you know music sport culture politics diplomacy the like it was just like america is the country of the world no one doubted it you went anywhere in the world and you said where do you want to go america you know what i mean didn't matter what country you went to america that was like the thing and then I don't know I don't know when I would say the first like little slip maybe when Obama left no no I think it was I think before then I think like I think okay for me personally around like 9-11 I was just about saying 9-11 when Bush started bombing the world was the first time where I noticed people go oh you mean that yeah that was the first like huh Oh, I was thinking about when like, because this is so dark, because I moved to America after Bush started bombing the world, right? Yeah.
So I'm saying as an outsider, when did you consider like, maybe I don't want to live there anymore? Obama was, you're like, oh, I want to move to a place where Obama can become president. Obama in this is like Alex Ferguson and then when Obama ends and you know if you follow the American story you assumed it would be Hillary yes and then Trump comes in as an outsider you're like maybe I want to reconsider I don't know that's what I feel from because like it's kind of dark, but the war in Iraq, European countries were involved in that.
As a Brit. Yeah, that's true.
But I think you could be right, Trevor. Maybe I was just very selfish and blinkered.
I was like, I still want to go to a place where war criminals are presidents. As the only American here, Josh, what do you think? I'm not a well-traveled person.
That's not true. No, no.
Josh, come on. At the time of 9-11.
Oh, okay. At the time of 9-11.
I was 11. I was not a well-traveled individual.
You know what I mean? Most people would say, I was a child. Sure, sure.
But Josh judges himself as an 11-year-old. But I was like, when 9-11 happened, I remember being scared.
And then what I started to understand when I was in college, so like we're talking like 20, like in 2012, I was like, I guess I only saw it through media. So in American media, you see other countries wishing they could come here, wishing that they could, or even saying American propaganda out loud in their home country of like, but we're not America though, right? And then when I got older and I was in college and I would take in more media, that was when I was like, the perception is changing.
And I had friends who did travel, who told people they were Canadian. And like when they went to certain places and I was like, oh, okay.
Like, cause that wouldn't have even occurred to me cause I hadn't traveled much yet. And so I would say, though, to Christiana's point, when you really look at the the worldview of America after Obama entering Trump, Trump had this weird way of like.
I don't know if I have the words for it exactly but he had this weird way of like

bringing things to fruition but it was

him that did it so then he would

be like, America's looking at us as a joke. Yes.
But we became a joke. Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? He was a prophet who made his own prophecies come true. Yeah.
That's what Trump does. Like he literally, I don't know if you remember that clip.
He's like, the American dream is death. Sir, sir, what are you doing but you know you know what you know what has been illuminating for me is how trump has changed one thing in my experience when i travel he's changed one thing fundamentally about america and that is before trump most places in the world i went to saw america as america they hated america or they liked america but that's how they spoke about america now trump has sort of has sort of exported american politics to the world so i go to countries where some people like trump and then some people don't like trump but they don't they no longer have like a singular view of america Does that make sense? Yeah.
So even in South Africa, the other day I was, I got pulled over by a policeman. It's very common there.
This is like, it's not like in, in America where your life starts flashing before your eyes. And like in South Africa, you get pulled over almost just for like a conversation.
Sometimes they just want to look at your car, to be honest with you. Yeah.
You know, they'll just pull you over and be like, ah, brother, what, what? And you're like, oh, yeah. And you're like, ah, it's nice.

It's nice.

I like it.

Okay.

So I got pulled over the other day.

And the cops, straight up, the guy rolled down the window.

He's like, licensed.

Then he sees me.

And then he's like, ah, Trevor.

He's like, hey, my man, what are you doing here?

I'm like, what do you mean?

I'm home.

He's like, aye, my man.

You should be there in America.

Elon Musk.

What is he doing to us?

Why is he doing these things to South Africans? No, Trevor. Hi, hi, but Trump, but Trump.
Guys, there was no time in my life where a South African man, in my entire recollection, was speaking about the individuals in American politics. You know what I mean? Even when Bush was bombing the Middle East, we said America.
Oh, that's interesting. It wasn't like Bush.
People were like, man, what America's doing. America's going up against the United Nations.
America's ignoring this. America's waging a fake war.
America. Now, I find everywhere in the world there's a break.
There's Trump and there's not Trump. Yeah.
Yeah. I think Obama did that but in a different way.
Obama made America look so cool and like it could like remake itself in a certain way. Yeah.
Because I remember there was like years ago when he was the first time he ran and they did like a poll in Europe about if Obama ran versus I think it was McCain or whoever it was the first time. What would the voice? It was like 95% Obama.
Like the rest of the world was a no brainer. Like this guy is great.
His wife is beautiful. I love that Europe, like who has never had like a black president.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't want their own one.
They want the American one. They were like, yeah, yeah.
Well, of course it makes sense. It's time to have some change, you know.
How can America not have – and then you're like, what about you guys? Oh, yeah, well, let's calm down. Yeah, no, it feels like dating at high school where there's always that one person that's like, oh, you're so sweet and you'll find someone.
What about you? Oh! No, you'll find. I said someone.

Yes.

I didn't mean it like that, Josh.

Yeah.

Oh, no.

I didn't mean it like that.

No, no, no.

It's that.

It's basically that.

That's so funny, though.

Feels like Obama did that and then Trump's done it the other way.

But that's why I think they're twin flames.

You know, I have this whole theory.

Oh, you do?

About in past life.

They came together.

There's something about them.

Oh, okay.

You're talking about a different thing. No, but I think we're talking about the same thing.
But I'm talking about the witchy version. something about them oh okay you're talking about a different thing no but i think we're talking about the same thing but i'm talking about the witchy version yeah you're talking about the sensible version trump is america's id but like um obama is obama is who america likes to think they are because it's like the performance of goodness yeah the good side because i think obama performs as a good person as well and okay he probably is a bit of an arsehole i would be too in private but like he is like humble in public and then trump is the dark side so they're like the darkness and the light and you know there's an overlap in their voters right yeah the same people that voted for obama that's very true also voted for trump in these swing states he's appealing to the same parts of themselves but just the dark and the light yeah yeah that's my...
Maybe America should only just have two presidents then forever and you just switch back and forth. That would make it simpler.
It would make it simpler. No, basically you just ask America, you just go like, guys, what are we feeling like? We're feeling dark times? Yeah.
Or we're feeling... What are we feeling like? Hopeful.
Are we feeling hopeful? No, that's very true. Hopeful president! Because I do, and people always take it the wrong way when I say it but maybe y'all will at least get it that trump is white obama he's obama for white people who hated the idea of obama yeah yeah and it's like that to me is why i think people keep underestimating him because i'm like you guys aren't ready for like, okay, you may need to cut this whole thing.
Who knows? But I think that there is a thing that is baked into America's understanding of the experience of a black person. So whether it's true or not, or whether it applies to every person or not, there's a story that people are told about you before they meet you as like a black American.
It's like your ancestors were slaves. You have to struggle, but you always make it through.
And like you had to avoid like crime and drugs and getting somebody pregnant just to be where I am right now. It's like a like a white person.
So just to be my coworker, you had to overcome all this stuff. It's like every one of your stories is like an Oscar movie.
That's why we keep giving you the Oscar every time it's sad, right?

And now you're living in a world where there's so many cracks in that thing,

not just because there are black people who are like,

no, I grew up in the suburbs all my life and my dad's a doctor,

but now you have white people who literally are that story,

but no one tells it in that way.

So they're like, okay, my great great grandparents were these irish immigrants they got spit on when they came here and everything and i have a lot of like uh uh drugs and crime where i'm from like people always make it appalachia but it's like guys it's everywhere it's everywhere it's everywhere and so it's like my family was on food stamps my family all all the stuff like that as a white person which is like never really talked about and so then this person had to overcome a lot just to be next to this other white person right yes and and trump speaks to that the way that that obama spoke to black people who may or may have not been having that like stereotypical experience right and that is so powerful it feels weird to tell white people that they don't understand white people but white people who are like the living embodiment of everything we've been told black people go through i understand better than like white people who've always had it if that makes sense it makes sense because i america more than most countries in the world has told people what their life should be and what it could be.

Yeah.

Right?

There's no other country that goes like the pursuit of happiness.

Which is an insane...

It's a crazy concept.

In most cultures, they don't even believe in happiness.

Yes.

Like, if I told my dad I wanted to be...

I think I told my dad that once.

Or if my mom, I said, I want to be happy.

And my mom was like, is that it?

Yes.

Is that all you want for yourself? That is a wild concept. If you said that to your parents, most African parents, you're like, I want to be happy.
They're like, happy, happy, go and study something. Are you going to be successful? You know what is happy? You leave me happy.
Are you married? Do you have children? You know what I mean? Like, like what is, happy is a moment. My friend's sister said, was Jesus happy? Yeah.
But that is one of the wildest things I've ever heard in my entire life. That, wow.
She was making a big life choice. She's like, I'm not happy.
She's like, was Jesus happy? Yes. Okay, but think of it this way, right? Most cultures in the world will believe that happiness is a state of mind and it's a moment.
You're not, you are happy. You're not like permanently in a state of happiness.
And you shouldn't pursue it. It's like pursuing pleasure.
It's kind of decadent, right? It is, right? But America is the only country that did that. And so in many ways, you have a country where they've told you what is supposed to happen to you, what you're supposed to experience.
And so if you're not experiencing that, you're butting up against it. So it's like, it's the 14 day money back guarantee.
Think about how many people in America are going, but this is not what I was promised. And to your point, exactly what you're saying, Trump is going, you haven't gotten your delivery.
You haven't gotten the service. You know what I mean? You're supposed to get this thing, but you haven't gotten it.
And then people are standing up and then other white people are like but why don't they just why don't they just and it's like yeah you say that but these white people are going why has it not happened for me and obama did the same thing yeah he said america has failed on its promise but yes we can yes we can he was very you know it's the same it's like it's the dark or the light yes but yeah but the people whenever i say white obama everyone's bad everybody everybody's like right what do you mean what are you talking about i'm like yeah but and then i explain the whole thing they're like no and i'm like i i understand no because you lead josh if you start with white obama i can see people immediately viscerally it's look in the world of stand-up yeah it's brilliant as a premise yeah as like a concept but obviously most of the time a great premise in stand-up is terrible for regular conversation yeah no that's fair because imagine if you came to somebody and you're like yep in many ways he's like muslim jesus, what did you say? Yeah, yeah. You can't take someone who people love and revere and then compare them immediately to somebody they hate and not expect them to be a little bit reactive.
I guess I'm surprised how much everybody hates it in that I still have friends from Louisiana who voted for Trump and stuff like that. And then when I say he's wild, I're like, what? Yeah, but that's what I mean.
And I'm like, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, I can understand my liberal friends getting mad, but then everyone's mad.
It's worse the other way around. Yeah.
How dare you? You're going to call this man white Obama? But can I tell you, he is doing everything. Trump is doing everything that they told us a black president would do yes

this man has his own coin two days before and then fleecing everybody and then it dips and he don't even mention it they asked him in the press conference when he already is like is i i won't say promising but when he's when he's already jump starting this like 500 billion dollar project for all of these AI CEOs before DeepSeek comes out.

And they're like, what about your coin? And he's like, I don't know, how much did it make? And then they tell me, he's like, oh, that's peanuts to these guys. I'm like, why are you letting this dude deflect in real time? That's a pimp move to just be like, I don't know who stole from you while holding the bag that's crazy i have been surprised might be the wrong word but it's the only one i can think of right now i've been surprised at how just like the lack of robustness in america's systems like Do you know what I mean the institutions yeah you take for granted how much of America is run like the game of golf it's just an agreement yeah you're gonna keep your score right you'll tell us where your ball landed right yeah of course of course yeah and you're not gonna move the ball when you get there right no no no no all right and you but you all you keep your own score think about how crazy golf is as a game everyone is out there competing against each other everyone keeps their own score yeah you hit the ball it goes somewhere you then tell people where your ball was if you move it nobody knows which by the way fun fact trump does all the time yeah yeah in actual golf yeah in actual golf right 100 you you you don't move the ball if you do but all of this and people keep their own scores and the game is basically run there's all the rules but a lot of the game is just a handshake it's a gentleman's agreement and i i've been surprised to see how much of america is just a gentleman's agreement also i i mean i'm saying this as a brit how much is just ultimately resolved in court and then there's a different court yeah so then it goes to a court in like this district says no america just sues itself yeah it just keeps you and then it's always the judges who are like i'll take you i'll take you to court yeah i'll take you to court so trump does a thing and then now i've realized to see what happens in court.
You have to wait for the final court, though. It's like, which court does it go to? And then it's frozen because there's something that happens in court.
So I'm like, I'm not saying not being a president is powerful because we've seen how much it can shape the world. But now I'm like, oh, everything happens in court in this country.
It's like the judges. Yeah.
I think also for your analogy of like the gentleman's agreement thing, it's like that's also how our corruption is supposed to work. So when you're playing golf and you're keeping your own score and you're not going to move the ball, everybody moves it a little bit.
Trump moves it out of the water. Yeah, actually.
We all watched it go in the water. And then he dove in.
He didn't dive. But he got someone to dive in, hand him the ball, and then he threw it in the green.
And then he goes, that's where my ball was the whole time. And then because we don't really understand how to like combat that, we're like, I guess that's where his ball was the whole time.
Maybe I'm crazy. That's a great addition to the analogy.
I thought it went to the water. And so then because,

admittedly,

with Dems and Republicans,

there's always been

the understanding,

the gentleman's agreement of like,

I'm going to move my ball a little bit.

We'll both say I won't move my ball at all yeah but i'll move it a little bit yeah i'm gonna move to the bank after i've been running yeah i'm gonna move to the defense contract after running yeah yeah but you're right it's been it has been subtle yeah and it's like that's what that even even like under people that we like there was that level of corruption on. But it felt like enough corruption to keep everything stable.
So we're still playing golf. Well, you know, there is the theory.
I forget the official name for it or the title for it. But there's this theory that says that there's no society that functions without corruption.
And corruption is a necessary part of society for it to succeed. It's counterintuitive counterintuitive i love this because i love corruption yeah but you're nigerian i mean he said it not me but you just said i love it could have been my british side the brits love corruption too come on let me say something one thing i've learned about nigerians it could be my british can i tell you what i've learned about about Nigeria? Now you're going to bring out your British side, please.

Brits are incredibly corrupt.

No, but they don't love the corrupt.

There's a difference.

No, but we're embarrassed about it.

That's what I mean.

That's the difference.

I think that's what it really is, is with Trump.

It's the gentleman's agreement.

When he sat down with Zelensky, he broke the gentleman's agreement.

I'm sure many presidents have cussed each other out over world issues. But the gentleman's agreement is that you don't do it In front of the press Do you get what I'm saying It's the same way adults You'd be like yo We'll talk about this Let's let the kids go away We're going to go to another room and we'll discuss Because you don't want the kids to see this Because there's a certain level of decorum.
He's got no decorum. That's what it is.
He's not decent. What Trump did there is you don't do that amongst world leaders because it's not for us as the public in a weird way.
Go into a room, fight about it, and then come out and shake hands and be like, yeah, we had a good discussion and we're going to figure this out. But I also feel like, forget world leaders.
I would not invite someone to my house to cuss them out. Like if I want to cuss you out, you're not coming to my house.
That was the thing that kind of blew my mind about the internet. Like forget.
But he didn't think he didn't think he was going to cuss him out. Oh, he knew he was going to cuss him out.
No, he didn't. You don't think so? I don't think so.
Well, he thought Zelensky would kind of bow. Okay.
So here's how I play out the timeline. Trump goes, Zelensky's coming.
Now Trump, remember who Trump believes Trump is. Trump believes he's the greatest negotiator, the greatest dealmaker, the greatest businessman, the greatest peacemaker that has ever.
Remember, this is the man who said on day one, he's like, on day one, I will reduce the price of eggs. I will bring them down.
Day one, eggs have only gone up. Yeah.
Day one. Israel, Palestine.
I'm going to end it. We're tired of the war.
We got to end it. It's not over.
You get what I'm saying? He's the person who believes. He genuinely believes.
I don't even think he's like lying about this. He thinks, I'm going to go in.
I'm just going to tell them what it is. And it's going to be.
Same thing with tariffs. I'm going to do the tariffs.
Then the thing backfires. Then he's like, okay, I'm going to undo the tariffs.
Then I'm going to do the tariffs again. and I'm just going to tell them what it is and it's going to be.
Same thing with tariffs. I'm going to do the tariffs.

Then the thing backfires.

Then he's like, okay, I'm going to undo the tariffs.

Then I'm going to do the tariffs again.

Then I'm going to undo the tariffs.

But he believes it.

So he goes, you know what?

I'll call Zelensky.

He's like, I'm going to call Zelensky

and I'm going to tell him this war needs to stop.

And then Zelensky will stop the war.

What happens?

Zelensky shows up.

Zelensky shows up in his outfit.

That's the first thing Trump is angry about because he's like, why is this guy? Everyone shows up here in a suit and tie. What is this man doing? Do you know what I mean? And that was the first comment, if you remember.
No, no, yeah. He points at him and he's like, oh, he got all dressed up.
Look at him. So that's the first thing, the first slight for Trump.
They go in, they're having the conversation. It's a normal press conference until the end.
And that's the moment where Zelensky says a thing that Trump feels is something that goes against him and is like a threat. You know where Zelensky is like, you're going to feel the pressure, you're going to feel Russia's influence.
He's like, don't tell us what we're going to feel. Don't you threaten me.
And that's when it goes off the rails. But I don't think he brought the man in to cuss him out.
I think he brought him in to solve it. And then this little man didn't come in scrounging in front of him.
I think some of the reaction to it, though, is just like people are surprised to see someone cuss someone out in their house. Forget them being a group of men.
Someone came to your house and you cussed them out. That is like just on a purely human level.
I'll pitch you both this. I think that none of this would have happened if Zelensky had shown up maybe two weeks to a month earlier.
Because you got to remember that Macron was just in there correcting that man in front of his face and touching his knee and so it's like if you want to talk about as a man i will curse somebody in my house before i let a man correct me and touch my knee while he does it that's oh you must be out your mind correct me or touch my knee but if you do both at the same time we fighting and. And so he already had to take the L on Macron.
Right. And so then he took the L on Macron.
And then because because to Trevor's point, that thing that that Trump does, he got to do very well with the I think it was the president of Egypt. Right.
When Egypt basically says, hey, when it comes to Gaza, we'll take the sick kids.

Yeah. Right.
Which for trump is not a contradiction because he's like oh we're gonna send some of the people to jordan we're gonna send some people to egypt so then sick kids are still people yeah so then trump is like i didn't even know that see isn't that isn't that nice that he's willing to take the the sick kids and that that's really great and you can even see in the moments, like, maybe Trump is trying to continue to do the salesman thing. But maybe he's also like, it's working.
Like, it's working. No, he does think it's working.
And so then when Zelensky, who's just making a pretty rational point, he's like, guys, y'all think Putin's going to stop? Y'all think China's just, like, playing games in the background? Like Zelensky's one of the only people you can tell even from him not showing up in the suit and tie that's like living in the real world. Do you know what I mean? I don't know if you've ever been to like, and I'm not trying to put anyone on blast, but I don't know if you've ever been to the party of someone who was about to not have money, but like they're still dressed and still putting out the hors d'oeuvres like they have money yeah but you know that they almost don't have money so then you show up in your hoodie and they're like well well it's like well well well you've got to live next to me i love i love the idea that josh you should know this if you invite josh to your, how he's dressed is a precursor to your moments in life.

How much money he thinks you have.

Yeah, like if Josh shows up in a hoodie to your party, you should go check your bank account, go check your investments, go check everything. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.
The most important news in the world right now, across every country, is that Christiana had another baby.

Before we get into it, because I want to know all the details.

And I have many questions for you, by the way,'ve been saving Oh Many questions Okay Do you know how many people Will talk to me About the podcast And the thing they'll say They'll go like Josh Oh Josh Oh he's very funny Oh man Love this thing Oh YouTube Oh Josh You know what I mean By the way Like people think You're like different people It's very strange for me But people will tell me about you but then tell me about you doing something else as a different person oh yeah people don't know i'm the same person they don't know you're the same person you've noticed that i've got dms like angry dms that are like you stole the joke from the guy on what now because i'll do the yeah i'll say the thing here and then i'll say it on stage and they'll be like i've heard that before and you think you're slick yo people say that to me oh they'll go they'll go like oh man i love the love the oh man by the way there's this comedian you should have on your show his name's josh johnson he's then i go you just told me you like josh on the. Yeah, yeah.
And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But have you heard Josh Johnson? Yeah.
It's nice that no matter what, they want to take up for me. Sometimes it's against me, though.
It is against you. Yeah, it is.
You are the white Josh Johnson. Yeah.
That's what you are. But the other thing people say, they'll be like, oh, I love Josh.
love Joshua they'll be like oh Christiana is so funny she's smart but then they'll be like is she always pregnant how many children does Christiana have yo everyone men women old young people just be like oh my god there's a comedian in South Africa his name is in Africa. He was just chatting randomly.
And he's like, Trevor. He's like, that Christiana.
She's always pregnant. How is she always pregnant? I was like, what? Is she always? I was like, actually, she is always pregnant.
It's kind of crazy. Yeah.
First of all, congratulations. Thank you.
You are now the mother of a... How old? She is eight weeks tomorrow.
Eight weeks tomorrow. So she's brand new.
Wow. She's still got that placenta perm.
Yeah, look at that. Brand new.
The placenta perm. You know how the hair comes out.
It's not how it is. So she's still got her placenta perm.
I know. I am a mother of three kids, five and under.
I've had, I've had more than three pregnancies. You guys know, like my womb is a strange place.
So I've had losses, done IVF, all of this stuff. And now it's landed me at three kids.
Cora wasn't IVF though. So wait, so are you, how many, what's the number you're going for? I'm stopping it.
Can I tell you guys something? No, don't lie. lie Don't lie I hate it that he does this Don't lie Let me tell you My body My choice Trevor Yes yes yes But He's gonna say Above all else You say this all the time Above all else Every time you say It's your last baby Above all else To thine own self be true Yeah That's a quote That I love to live by I'm not saying this Out of judgment I'm asking if there is like an end goal Because you are with children The way dangerous leaders are with land and like territory They'll be like, I'm done Remember when Putin said Crimea? That's it He said that's it He said now that we have You are, you're the Putin of children Because every time I think you're done There's another incursion And then you're gonna tell me About why you had to So you said After the first one You were like Trevor I will You're like Don't ever have kids I'll never have kids I did say that Then second one Then you're like I don't know who tricked me into this I can't believe I'm doing it again I'll never Trevor I'm done After this I'm done.
We're now the third one. Okay, can I tell you the difference now? Okay, tell me.
So, unfortunately, I live in a very godless city. So, it's a long time to get a vasectomy.
In LA, I sent my husband. My husband, February 14th, get an appointment for a consultation for a vasectomy.
On Valentine's Day? Yes, I said go. He got there and the guy says there's a waiting list.
But what happens, every Friday, they open up the portal for cancellations. This is the vasectomy doctor in LA, by the way.
Everyone goes to him because he does the job. How hard is it to do a vasectomy? Forgive my ignorance.
Oh, it's so easy. I thought it was quick.
It's quick, but it's a godless city. People don't want kids.
So there's so many men. Oh, so there's so many people in LA getting vasectomies.
If you want it quicker, go to Utah. And that person will be like, I've never done this before.
But let's see what happens. I heard it's just snip snap.
So this is, I don't even want to go on too many tangents. No, go on all the tangents.
Because I want to know all the details. Because I've got people telling me, why don't you get an IUD? Why don't you do that? I'm like, no, let him do something.
Because my body's been through hell. No, I don't blame you.
So my husband is getting a vasectomy. And we have two embryos in boarding school in case I ever...
Want to get to five. No, they're just there.
I don't know what to do with them. You see, I'm pro-choice, but then I have all these woo-woo things.
I'm like, do I donate them to science? I don't like embryo adoption. No, you see, this is slick.
Wait, wait, wait. You see, she left herself a little out there.
No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not the out.
It's just like, I'm like, I can't keep having children when I have like these two, not souls, but things frozen in time. So they're there.
I have to make a decision about what we do with them. They're in Texas.
You have children in Texas. Not children, please.
before the Republicans here. They're there I have to make a decision About what we do with them They're in Texas You have children in Texas Not children Please Before The Republicans here They're not children They're cells Me and my husband's cells Yeah Day five embryos You know it was a matter of time before Like You remember when we were on the road I used to have this joke That I almost believe Is going to become true They're just going to keep moving it Further and further back Yeah You know That's why we want to take them out of Texas Yeah they go But they're going to keep moving it further and further back that's why we want to take them out of Texas but they're going to keep moving it further and further back they go like oh no the heartbeat or this or blip and this and inception it's going to get to the point where they'll just be like your sperm is a child look at how they swim look at how they swim I'm afraid it's going to get to that so anyway so even having Cora the ethical I was like how can we do this when it was obviously she's not planned Right By the way my thing about having three kids I think it makes me look like I lack sexual discipline In this day and age No no no Wait wait wait Why would you need Because who has three kids in this day and age No no no no But why would you need sexual discipline Whoever says that Bring them here I'll fight them No people are very like People Women with careers Yes Like ambitious women you either have no kids yes or you have maximum two no kids or maximum two this is what i found i've looked at it and why do you think that is because no kids you have freedom yes um two kids you have balance and it's what you could i at three kids we're like at capacity like it's it's chaos in my house.
But imagine a woman shows up for a job interview.

I'm just talking about a woman that maybe doesn't have as much privilege.

And she's like, I have three kids.

The person on the other side is like,

this bitch is going to have another baby soon.

I don't know if I can give her the job.

I mean, that's how I would feel.

That's how I would feel.

But I'm saying that's a very raw...

No, no, no.

But then you'd have to...

Can I tell you...

I'm glad you brought that up. Can I tell you something something This is something I feel like People don't speak enough about Because we You know The problem with almost Every single conversation People have Not just in America But in most places But I feel like America does it You know In the most extreme way Is that You can't have A conversation About a thing Because it's overlapped with so many other issues that then people think you're talking about when you're not talking about it right i'm glad you brought that up because even with us doing this you being pregnant is the worst thing for the podcast when i told them i work i walked in obviously i was like they were like like because my belly was showing at that point.
I was past 12 weeks. And then Derek, shout out to Derek, who works with Trevor.
He was just sitting there, answering ads. They're doing the sums.
Yeah, everyone has to do the mess. And they were like, congratulations.
Oh, yeah, we can make the podcast. What do you do? It was so funny.
It was just a relief. And then they were like, okay, whatever.
No, but it makes, do you get what I'm saying? Like with Josh, I never, with you, I go, okay, when is Josh on the road?

When is Josh touring? When is Josh, okay, cool, whatever. You're not worried about Josh getting pregnant.
Yeah, but when, no, but I'm not even worried about what I'm saying is you being pregnant is the worst thing for our work schedule, right? Because you have to go see the doctor. Anything can happen at any time during the pregnancy.
And I had a high-risk pregnancy. There you go.
You've got a high-risk pregnancy. so your body is this fragile thing

that is doing this amazing thing

that you have to watch out for on all these levels. So if Christiana's not well, I'm never going to put a podcast over your pregnancy.
I'll never ever be like, but the podcast, and you know this from me. I'm the person who's like, yeah, cancel.
And by the way, so I feel very fortunate that I do this, the work i do and where i am in my career that i have like partners like you guys were like okay how can we make this work right that was like okay what are your dates what do you want to take time off when are your appointments you know they're the queen the kings and queens of you don't you seem tired go go sleep or whatever but most women don't work in environments but this is i like that yeah but It it's like you know you're getting fired you're getting demoted you're taking time off you're coming back at a lower level you're already like postpartum it's the worst thing you can do for your career having a baby so that's the truth but no one says that that's what i mean we don't talk about these things because people feel like you're conceding something that they don't want to concede right having a child is terrible for your career. Having a child is also terrible for the work environment.
Like for the actual, for your company, your office. It's not great for them.
It's bad for the dads too, by the way. Because the dad is like, I want to spend more time with my kids.
Yes. It's just bad.
It's bad. A good dad.
A good dad. A good dad.

Can I tell you the men that you would not know had children. You'll be in a fantasy league with them and not know they have a child.
You will know their number one seed and not know that they have a child. Okay, for someone who wants to be an active and present father,

in the current capitalist framework we have, where your work is on your phone, your email, you can't escape it. It's very tough.
After work, drinks, socializing. Now they're like returned to the office.
They don't want us to work from home, right? So you're away from your family all day. If you're a man that wants to see your kids and be present it's it's bad for you as well but i think with and it's an argument a conversation me and lewis have a lot the woman you take on the actual physical brunt of the pregnancy the emotional physical labor the hormones it's it's feeling like you're being invaded i find pregnancy very disembodied i'm not one of these women like the most beautiful time in my life i was close i feel like shit like i i don't enjoy it um and i've had really i've had rough pregnancies i've had my last birth was my favorite birth i felt really powerful i knew what i wanted like i felt very confident yeah and it was just like i'd done it a lot of times before to be like, listen to.
And postpartum was, I couldn't even really dwell on it because I had two other children. But for a lot of women, it's this earthquake and you're constantly feeling aftershocks.
And whatever decision you make, right, whether you decide to stay at home with your children or also work as well you don't

have the support for the most part like i find my friends that stay at home moms they live really isolating existences and they do work that's not respected so i've been experiencing this through different lenses and in different ways so i've gotten to experience the professional side of it with you you know pregnancy and a woman having children in the work environment which i've loved because anything that gives me insight

I love

you know what I mean

like if I was in that plane That flipped over I would love it Because I'd be I've always wanted to be in a plane That crashes But I would like to experience it And then come out on the other side Does that make sense So if I don't live It's concerning But it makes sense No what I mean is like I love things that give me insights Yeah So what is it like? Oh, I now know what it's like. You've seen it up close multiple times now.
Yes, exactly. Right.
So, but then one of my best friends and his wife, they just had twins. Yeah.
Yeah. Oof.
Indeed. And like there've been some days where there's nobody to look after the twins.
I don't know how many months old there, but they're like tiny. They don't walk.
They don't do anything. They're still in like that.
You know what I mean? Yeah. They're like blobby.
They can hold their necks up. Their necks are now able to hold their necks up.
They're infants. Definitely.
Yeah, they're infants. And some days it'll be like me and him looking after them, right? For hours on end, hours on end.
And the other day we were sitting together And we're just like rotating the babies And he like broke his back many years ago And then now carrying the babies on the stroller The back injury came back So for like a week he couldn't carry babies So now I'm helping him with both of the babies And I'm running around But there was a point where we were sitting together And you you know what this is like, you know, but the baby starts like crying in a rotation. I call it witching hour.
Yeah. So just as one baby starts crying, it cries, it cries, it cries, it cries, it cries.
You finally figure out what it is. Maybe it wanted to be rocked.
Maybe it wanted to be fed. Maybe it wanted to be burped.
Maybe it just wanted to move. Sometimes they just want to stand up.
Sometimes babies just don't like you to sit down. This is what I've learned.
Like babies are like, why are you sitting? Like babies should be bosses in every office in the world. They do not tolerate sedentary lifestyles.
Babies are just like, why are you sitting? Then you're like, what do you mean? I'm chilling. The baby's like, nah, nah.
Then you stand up and the baby's like, yeah, this is good. I like this.
I like this. That's all the baby's doing.
Yeah, yeah. You finally get the baby to chill or sleep.
And then the other baby's like, all right,'s see what we can do with this so we're in the spiral we're in this thing we're in this i'm rocking singing burping bumping jumping doing everything with these babies and i think like two hours in i looked at him and i said yo how much longer do we have and he said what do you mean with the whole day and then i I looked at him and I said, how do women, how do they exist? And what I mean by how do women exist is I don't understand how we've created a system where we act like that is not happening to everyone. Most people, especially in America, cannot afford childcare.
They don't have support. They don't have systems.
So they're leaving their kids at home at a young age, if they get to that age where they can. Or some people are like bringing the kid with them where they can and how they...
But I don't understand how we're going to live in a world where we, on the one hand, tell people, hey, the birth rate is dropping. We need to have have more kids Why aren't we having kids

This is not sustainable

But then on the other hand

Not support the very same people

Who need to have the kids

To sustain a population

And let's not even talk about

And I think this is around

The Western world

The housing crisis

It's so expensive

Yeah yeah no

It's all of it

Schools aren't good

But private schools

Are super expensive

So it's just like

Everything is working Against you And then I'd say like On a really, maybe it's like, I don't think it's vain. For a long time, you don't feel like yourself in your body.
You have this baby, you're lumpy, you're soft. You don't feel sexy.
Do you know what I mean? It's like you're scrolling Instagram and you're like, you know, a Zenpec. Everyone's very hot and thin right now.
And you're just like, I feel like blah. Can I tell you, just as an aside two things one i still think glp1 slash that whole world is unlocking something deep in humanity that we haven't even like we haven't tapped into i think it's unhacking a lot of the hacking that has happened to us right yeah and if you're listening to i'm not saying like go and take ozempic all of these things but i genuinely believe that almost everyone in society in some way should be on it because i feel like in the same way that microplastics are everywhere now i think we've all been like poisoned by foods that have hacked our systems and i think these drugs are the first things that are undoing a lot of that hacking yeah i don't know how long like how

long you know it'll last and how people will feel good i'm not endorsing it in any way but i just think glp1 in particular but have you seen um have you seen how now like big food companies you know for lack of a better term fast food companies and then chips and snacks and all of that have you seen that they're working on glp1 blockers in their food so they will basically become ozempic resistant they are trying to make food now that's scary that can resist ozempic and monjaro and all of these drugs because the people who take this aren't eating junk food and aren't becoming overweight and aren't getting sick and are becoming more fertile and are becoming like they gamble less they buy less they smoke less they drink less they shop less they they do everything less of the unhealthy and because of that they're actually going to make food that is going to block the block so that they can get you back into that sorry that's just just like i wonder what that's going to do to people who really weren't in this at all like if you like if you just like regular doritos and you aren't going anywhere near ozempic are you going to be like look i'll do anything for you might be like are you going to lose your mind you might be crack hungry actually no you actually might be crack hungry because because gl-1 is produced naturally as I understand it. So it's something that your gut is supposed to produce when you are full.
Most food hacks that feeling. But if you have a healthy gut, your stomach tells you, okay, you're full.
So now to your point, if it blocks that, yeah, we might get like cracked Doritos now. This is what makes me feel crazy sometimes.
You brought children into this world? Well, I think- How could you? Well, the worst thing is being like postpartum in the age of Ozempic. Because like, I think I've been through like the entire life cycle.
So when I had OB in 2020, then it was COVID. But it was a wave of body positivity.
And everyone was saying, you're not your body. Thank your body for just keeping you alive because you know the stakes were different it was like viruses so you were just like oh i've got this thing that keeps me alive good for you it didn't matter how it looked and now the algorithm is just feeding me oh your postpartum how to get your body back basically eating disorder content like lean is law it's like and every the timeline does look different because so many people are on GLp ones and you look at the red carpet from the oscars or the grammys and you're like people look really different yeah and like everyone everyone is on it so there's also being a woman that's just had a baby in a very different cultural space where a maternal body is like no no one wants to see evidence that you've had babies we hate those bodies

it's a mum bod it's so rude right you know what's funny is that there's a dad bod but we don't even have the baby i mean it's true though it's pretty funny yeah like dads just get it you know what i mean men are really we really have finessed the game in a good way because like they'll go like Oh, mum bod.

Yeah, she's had kids.

Dad bod.

You never had kids.

Yeah.

You've never physically had the children. Why are you using this as an excuse? I have not had to support someone all the way through a pregnancy.
I've had friends who have been pregnant. I've just never been in a relationship with someone who was pregnant and then seeing the whole thing through.
So I'm not acting like I... Wait, wait, wait.
Okay. You know, Josh...
Very supportive. You were great when I was pregnant with Obi.
No, no, no. You bring me stuff.
I do my best. You bring me snacks.
This is a thing I have with Josh, just generally. I don't know if it's because you're Southern or I don't know if it's because of just like your vibe.
Sometimes you'll say a thing, and I love this about you, but I think it leaves people thinking you said something you didn't say because what you just said now i think for some people what they might have heard is i have not stayed around for full pregnancy i have never supported someone fully yeah yeah yeah no it's the way i worded it but i just i'm not trying to have any stolen valor of, oh yeah I helped this person all the way through their pregnancy I know you This is over-wokeness By the way, I'm an ally For people who have been pregnant However, I myself have been But now you sound like a dead bit The way you said it sounds like Josh was like, so I want you to know That I've never stayed around to see an entire pregnancy through. I've been there when they told me.
And I've been there when they were done. But I've never.
No, Josh. You're not saying.
I've never got anyone pregnant. Cool.
Yeah. And so I can only imagine what it's like to actually be, you know, like like Lewis or in that situation.

But the closest thing I can I can guess from the dudes I know who have, you know, had kids and everything.

It's not just gaming the system in a way of like there's very little that a dad has to do.

There's also you want to do something. There's nothing for you to do.

So I equate it to like how it feels when you've hired movers. Because now you've hired the movers and they're in your house and they're doing all the work and you're like, oh, I could, and they're like, you would literally be in the way.
If you help me right now and you hurt yourself, I can't help you. So like, just be over here.
As now you're standing in the corner while somebody moves all your stuff and you're like but i i think i could help you can't trust me we work out all day and we move all day we don't need you coming down the step whoa and then now all of a sudden your neck is broken and we don't get paid i feel i feel so bad i'm such i'm such a mean pregnant woman because that's. Not to you.
Or maybe in the house. In the house.
Trevor, you'd be like, oh, bye. No, I think my character, Flora, is that when I'm frustrated with things, there's always the target of my frustration, even if it's not that person themselves.
So I think Lewis had to absorb a lot of my complaints. But also, I've had three kids for this man.

So I feel like...

I like how quickly it went from...

I was like, man, this poor guy.

I had these kids for him.

He's like your favorite line.

That's what he calls it.

We must be seeing what Lewis sees.

Yes, yeah.

Like a little bit of rationalizing.

They're a little bit like,

no, you did this to me.

But, you know, he's very active, supportive. He's a great parent.
Like I'm always like, if any, I say to him, like if you died and left me a widow, I'd go and get you back because I can't do this without you. No, just don't die.
But that's beautiful though. No, but like he's just.
It's beautiful as a threat. I mean, but it's beautiful.
Stay healthy, go to the doctor. How big is your community? Oh my God.
Is it just the two of you raising the kids for the most part? Because your parents are in the UK. My parents are in the UK.
His family's in New York. We're very fortunate enough to have a nanny who focuses on two, Luna.
Now we just use numbers for the children because we get their names wrong. Just do numbers.
It's way easier. Focus is on two.
Lewis currently does the heavy lifting with one. Okay.
So he gets Obi dressed for school, gives him breakfast, takes him to school, takes him to any activity he needs to have, and then brings him back, et cetera, et cetera. And I focus on three.
Okay. But we have a great village.
My parents come out to New York this week week to record these episodes my parents came out from london they're currently in the hotel like 10 minutes away with cora um three lewis's parents have already come out they came out shortly after cora was born and they spent two weeks with us helping us out so even though we don't have our village always physically present people are very supportive and, you know, it's great to have like the physical support, but so much of parenting is just like the psychological toll. And you guys are part of the village.
Like friends, family, how are you doing? Checking in. Three of my best friends from my childhood were schoolgirls together.
We were in a group chat and we're always like encouraging each other. Do they have kids they also have kids okay they also have kids and we're all in different life phases with the kids and ages and another and even before they were like how are you how are you feeling you've got your pump like you're texting me yeah or if i came in today so we have a village we are incredibly supported but we still most days feel like we're treading water so i cannot imagine how i think most parents in america or in the west are just drowning yeah i'm glad you said in the west because that's something that i've found is the ultimate um paradox of coming from a developed country versus a developing nation you know so first world third world is the thing that you're sold in developed nations is that you have everything oh it's great the roads work and the schools are fantastic and there's health care and you know this is a great country to be in the one thing that nobody seems to tell you is that as a country becomes more and more developed the one thing that gets eroded is community yeah the village disappears yeah and what you have to do is you have to buy the village back yeah you know yeah you literally you have to buy somebody to look after your kid you have to buy somebody to help you clean your house you have to buy somebody to help you cook you have to buy somebody to cook you have to buy buy.
You're buying the same village that they tricked you into not having. Like I'm always amazed at the con of it all.
This machine, this larger thing told everyone, you should get your own house and you should live by yourselves. How can you still live with your parents in the same house? This is ridiculous.
And so everyone goes off get their own house to live by themselves they have a kid and now you need somebody to come and look after the kid but they can't just come a few if you you know what you should get a bigger house they could live with you you could have a live-in nanny yeah where i'm from they call that an aunt or a sister a grandmother they call it a sister yeah they call it a and and in the west that's one of the biggest things i've realized every time people bring up statistics of how birth rates are declining in the west i'm i'm amazed at how people never seem to want to talk about the fact that the west doesn't encourage people to have kids and what i mean by encourage is not telling people to do it but encouraging is facilitating i think in many ways yes so i remember years ago when we had this conversation for the first time of like being careful not to let people convince you you need to like buy the people you need and stuff like that because at the end of the day this person you pay this person you pay this person you pay none of them would like come and get you yeah like that's not who you call you i mean it's like no no i just watch your kid i'm not gonna come get you from a bar yeah because they're not your friends yeah they're not and and so they can become in some ways they can become over time but yeah yes and so so then uh there there's like that specific aspect which i've i've tried to like apply to my life and i've tried to tell as many people as possible like hey hey this could be a friend because that's what we're doing with ai now like there's literally like ai friends in a way i'm like guys come on come on yeah try it with a person you know i mean it won't be perfect but then the other thing that you both have sort of like helped me contextualize for the first time is that like it's amazing that business is able to do the things that people think are impossible in their own life. So your Doritos, your Lays, your whatever.
You see Ozempic. Everyone says that everybody's on it, but a lot of people can't even afford it.
All people essentially. Yeah.
And so it's like, this is just the first like 2% of what we're going to see from these drugs and already they're like okay then we need blockers we need blockers so that by the time the the poors can afford it it won't even work right and that thing is like seeing a need and addressing it immediately whereas like with people they're telling us you should have kids there's a. It's like, well, then as a business, don't you think that it would benefit you as quickly as possible to institute some sort of like maternity and paternity leave to like to like have these systems set up in your business? So that way, the next crop of people that you hire will be comfortable having a kid.
And now you have more employees for the future. But everyone is like so

compounded on and

because we were made to be cogs

not like people.

Like if you talk about the birth

rate and

only some people care about the birth

rate. The rest of people talking about the birth rate

care about the supply. No they do.

They completely care about it that way. They go the market

is going to collapse. That's what they mean by the birth rate.
They're not saying it like people will disappear. They're saying, guys, if this happens at some point, the economy is going to collapse because there won't be a new labor force.
You're not wrong. It is completely through the lens of labor.
And so that just blows my mind that we're there. I mean, I think there was Japan a few years ago experienced the first year where they sold more adult diapers than diapers for babies.
Oh. Because they have this huge geriatric population.
Oh. But people aren't having kids.
But to both of your points, maybe because of the way I was raised. And so my husband's Dominican, so very immigrant family, very family focused.
Dominicano.

Dominicano. And I'm Nigerian.
And you know what that means. We live in LA, which some people say is a vapid place or whatever, but there are good people there.
And we focus a lot on building our community. Like, we take our friends' kids.
Even when I was pregnant, I'll take a friend's kid. And people take our kids kids and one thing i will say in this postpartum period it being spending time with other people and being active in our trying to build that community it paid dividends in small ways there was a mom at ob school who sent me a text and she was like i've dropped something at your door like it was it was like a very sweet yeah yeah big up lane she dropped something at my door and i looked out she brought brought me just some tea.
I had another friend, my friend Chris. She was just like, I'm in the neighborhood.
And she bought food like that you can heat up and stuff like that. And then Cora's godparents, Dar and Emmy, they came by, just held the baby for a bit.
So I think sometimes we complain about not having community, but are we trying to be good community and village members and i think that we're in this like me me me selfish society whether it's about whether about your grind your money your holidays whatever you're into and we've actually forgot how to be village members and we then we were shocked we don't have a village so for the last couple of years i i was a i was doing that myself so i was just like how can I be better to the people around me or just show up in the small ways that I can and this is why I think this third time around being in a country that's not my own I felt more settled more supportive more checked in because I was always I've been more present for other people and I think that that's a hard thing to say to mothers or parents that like how many people are you there for because you're like well i'm drowning but i think if you have that mentality of like what's the little thing i can do for you know is there a parent in my um child's class i can be like oh i'll drop them home sometimes or what's the little thing you can do and that accumulates and that's how you build a village

don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this so there's a there's a paradoxical idea that is very difficult for people to accept but it is almost unanimously agreed on as being true.

And that is that difficult for people to accept, but it is almost unanimously agreed on as being true.

And that is that over time,

load starts to level off if it was a curve.

You know what I mean?

So if you're looking after a child, it's a lot of work.

If you're looking after two children, it's more work.

Three children, it's work.

It's weird, but at some point, the work doesn't actually increase you know at the same rates you know what i mean so it's it's not jumping are you pitching me to have more kids no no no but surprisingly it really isn't it isn't jumping in the same way now costs might jump and don't get me wrong on that side but like think of it this way i love that you said that we live in a world where everyone thinks, and I understand why people think this. Everyone thinks that they're doing it alone, right? So you're grinding alone, you're running alone, you're having a baby alone.
Everything you think you're doing alone, you really do think you're doing it alone. And the world, I think, tells you you're doing it alone.
And then part of the way it does it to you, I feel, is it tricks us into rewarding us alone. I think that's like a key thing as well.
Personal bonuses. Yeah, it's a personal bonus.
And it's like it's a private thing and it's your money, you know. But if you, to your point, took on a little more load in your world for somebody else, you don't realize how you've given them a thousand times more space, right? So let's say a couple has their kids and they say to all the parents in their group, hey, send your kids on every Thursday.
We'll look after everyone's kids if you want. Like we're going to host like a little mini kindergarten type thing.
Now, don't get me wrong. You might hate your Thursdays.
You might be like, okay, this is war. we go the invasion begins 6 p.m it's on we hate our lives but the amount of space you've created for the other let's say five families that have dropped off their kids it scales exponentially like way beyond what you are receiving as as load does that make sense yeah right they get to go off they get to have a couple's date they get to go work more if they need to they get to go sleep they get to do something but if everyone is doing that on every day that's true all of a sudden you're in a world where we which we should be trying to get back to which is what we had when we were growing up i know our parents had a tough time in in south africa i know they did but i can tell you they didn't have as tough a time contrary to what may believe.
Because you might think coming from a third world country means you'll have a harder time raising kids. I actually think a lot of it was easier because the load was always shared.
The load was always shared. It's so funny you say that about community.
Right now, I'd say one of the most invaluable members of my community is my god sister, Emily. She moved in with us in january and when i told like just strangers that oh yeah my god sister's gonna move in with her why would you want someone in the early 20s that's so weird i was like yeah you know she's coming out to la she's got a job i'm like you know i love her to bits i love her parents just like let her come live with us and it's so now i see the benefits of like intergenerational households because now obi has someone to look to yes who's not as old as yes because she was he was like what are you you're not a grown-up like he doesn't even know what this thing is she's like he was like well i am a grown-up but i am a i'm a young grown-up so he he has this thing to look to that he can play with is like a pressure relief valve right i just have another sister a sister in the house do you know i mean and then she has like an older sister an older brother to kind of look up to to ask questions to and it's changed the rhythm of all of our lives like she's up early in the morning because of the kids i'm learning about chapel rowan and all these crazy people because of her yeah i'm like what on earth is no but it's like it's opening my mind it's expanding my heart and it's just like we have a bigger family now there's some cultures where you would never let someone live with you yeah that is not in your but it's been one of the best things i think to happen to all of us yes and then when we had lewis's parents there we had like the grandparents yes parents and that's how it's and then i was like oh the rhythm where we're living now when someone's alone or you're having a four family with 2.5 kids.
That is not how it's. We're actually all supposed to be communal and have multiple generations in the same space.
And not having that is really bad for us. I think it's the worst thing that we've done.
Well, I think about when I was little and staying at my grandparents, my mom had to go to work or like visiting my aunt or, you know, whatever it was. And then my parents were separated for a little bit.
So I go over to my dad's or whatever. And I was like, man, after what you just said and what you've been saying, I'm like, yeah, I spent just enough time with everyone that everyone liked me.
Do you know what I mean? I didn't really have enough time to get on anybody's nerves in that way. Which is true, by the way.
And your mom was a single mom, right? And that's crazy. My son wasn't a burden.
Because if you speak to most single mothers today, they're like, I'm… Overwhelmed. I'm drowning.
And it actually impacts the relationship I have with this kid because I'm always strained and I'm tense. But just having that pressure-release valve, like, oh, I like my kid.
To be fair to my mom, it's like her breaks from me were work. But at the same time, sometimes it was just like going to my grandma's for no reason.
So it's like, sometimes it was like, yeah, her break from me was having to like do her job. But at the same time, there were some times where I was just at my grandparents for no reason.
And not no reason, but to spend time with them. And so's like, I was such a mama's boy as well that like, by the time she comes to pick me up, I'm so excited and she can be excited because I'm like, ma.
Whereas, ooh, I remember one time, I don't know if my grandparents were sick or what it was, but I couldn't go over there. And it was just us.
And I was like, I do talk a lot. And my mom wasn't even yelling at me or anything.
And I could see it on her face while i was like i do talk a lot and my mom wasn't even yelling at me or anything and i could see it on her face where i was like this story is going on i had to be like 11 or something i was like oof it was like i was old enough to like recognize in her face your your your um what do they call it again your self-awareness yeah that's like the age of self-awareness and i was just like oh oh and i want to get to the end but she she keeps looking at the ground oh yeah this was your first bombing in front of an audience yeah yeah as a comic you know that feeling where you're like yeah should i finish the bit should i yeah oh i've lost them oh i've lost them because if i stop the story right now i'm gonna seem like i have a head in yes she's gonna take me to the hospital because i'm like gearing up and it's like i don't think the turn is enough yeah you were raised like that right yeah i was completely village compound your cousins can i can i tell you probably one of the biggest things that keeps me afraid of having a kid Especially in America is I just I'm like it doesn't seem like What you'd want a childhood to be No it's not Also because of how They've robbed children of autonomy Yeah Like when I was a child You know what my job was 99% of the time Go play That was like my job That was like my official If you said to me like what is your job I'd be like I gotta go play my my mom my grandmother they would say go outside and play you go play with other children you go to the park you meet the other kids at the park and you play the the park hierarchy figures itself out there's a kid that swings the swing too hard you might fall you you cry Then you stop crying When I walk past playgrounds today There's a little prison yard Every parent is watching every kid Like every parent They're really surveilled You could have two parents Watching 30 kids I think you'd be fine I genuinely think you could be fine I don't know why people don't have contracts at the park and just be like all right guys who are the two parents of the day yeah you just need two people we're all afraid of pedophiles yeah but this is a this is a overblown it's a crazy do you know how you know i've been on this deep dive recently of going down rabbit holes seeing where our like fears and and all these ideas came from a few kids got kidnapped when the news thought it was the best story.

And now everyone's like, every kid gets kidnapped.

No, children don't get kidnapped.

But also, who wants to take any kid?

I'm not worried about my kids getting kidnapped.

The kidnapper will bring them back.

The number.

And I know someone will be like, what about this kid?

No, I'm not saying no kids get kidnapped.

But I'm saying for the amount of stress that people have about it,

trust me, you could have two parents at a park.

It's already fenced in.

Tell the rest of the parents, go hang out.

Go have a good day. get kidnapped but i'm saying for the amount of stress that people have about it yeah trust me you could have two parents at a park it's already fenced in tell the rest of the parents go hang out go have fun go talk to each other get to know each other build your community let your kids figure it out kids are a lot you if you're i can't imagine what it would be like watching my child slide down a slide every single time it's miserable i would hate them and I would hate myself.
Daddy, look.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daddy, look again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daddy, look again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, at some point,

and I'm not saying

that I don't want to see

the kids slide ever,

but I also want the kids

to slide for themselves.

I don't want the kids

to live in a world

where they're only sliding

when daddy or mommy's looking.

And I also want them to know

that you can fall off a slide.

I'm not going to catch you.

There's going to be moments

Thank you. I don't want the kids to live in a world where they're only sliding when daddy or mommy's looking and I also want them to know that like you can fall off a slide I'm not gonna catch you there's gonna be moments where you're gonna fall and you're just gonna hit the ground and you're gonna bump something and you're gonna smack something and you're gonna come back with like a bruise do you know how nice it was to go home to your parents and they go what happened? like imagine not having that yeah no because then you have a story and I love to You come home with...
But Christiana, I wanted to know something. You keep saying postpartum.
Yes. For everyone.
The fourth trimester. Yeah, I'd love to know for everyone.
For men, but for people who haven't had kids. Please can you break this down? Everyone just talks about postpartum.
And then sometimes I'll hear people say postpartum depression and but what is postpartum like what is it actually it's the immediate period yeah um after you've had a child okay after you've given birth it goes up until well they say the doctors say it takes two years for your body to be what it was before and it's never going to be what it was before but to like kind of get back to it and postpartum looks different for everyone but there's this huge hormonal crash because your body's making all these hormones to grow the baby yeah and then there's this huge crash and that can mean lots of different things your hair falls out for a lot of women i always my hair falls out every time so you lose the like or not lose your head grows yeah your head grows in pregnancy some of you glowing your nails wow and then you have the baby and all of those hormones like progesterone everything comes down and um i get horrible night sweats that's my really gross thing so in the night always have to i have night sets so bad my fingers wrinkle and i get shivers so that wakes me up and I put on some new pajamas every time so you get stuff like night sweats hair falling out you know in the immediate period when you're breast if you're breastfeeding your breasts get really engorged and they like breastfeeding can be quite rocky for some people um your skin changes obviously your body changes all your organs are moving back into position like your uterus is coming down again, you know, because pregnancy moves your organs out of the way.

And then for some women, that involves anxiety, depression, coming with the hormones.

Also, because the stress, like a newborn is like a very fragile thing.

And I think from a completely like evolutionary biology perspective, your job is like to keep it alive.

So it's just like some women get these things called phantom cries you hear your baby crying even though they're not crying which happens which yeah you're just like the baby's crying and your husband's like no it's not but it's just like it's all of these things at once and all the research shows that women in cultures who are more supportive supported have less postpartum. A big thing that actually helped me this time is our pediatrician, just an amazing woman called Dr.
Priest. She does home visits.
So Dr. Priest would come over and weigh Cora and ask any questions.
At home. At home, because before I would have to go to a different facility, go see the pediatrician somewhere else.
So I think a big part of what helped my postpartum this time that a pediatrician would come to the house. I'd be in my pajamas.
She'd do the exam and then she'd ask me like, how are you doing? She'd just chat, check in. How's breastfeeding go? Oh, you're not sure about the latch? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about, well, her weight's great.
Like, Oh, you know, it's just that having the person that was medically supervised to look after my child was a big part in, and her coming to the home, that changed everything. So I didn't have the postpartum anxiety that I typically have had in the past.
And I think I had some of the confidence of a third-time mom. but you know postpartum is also a big identity shift because every time you have a baby, you do go through that shift.
And now it's like a new identity as a mom of three. Or as the kid at my kid's school said, Obie's mom, why are you always having babies? Big up to her.
Obie's mom, why are are you always having babies and for a lot of women you don't want to just be known as a mother you still want to feel like yourself but you you have to find a new self every time and that's very unsettling you know so like postpartum is a big thing and i think it's not necessarily recognized it's not talked about and there's a lot of shame around it um because no one wants to feel like they're weak or they're inadequate you know and i still i still think that's even in the most developed societies or more supportive society we still haven't figured out how to help women in that next life phase and and that's where i find in traditional cultures i can speak specifically like in south african ones a lot of that load is just taken off your shoulders so so for instance one of the big ones is um elderly women sort of tell you that you don't know what you're doing and they're like it's fine they don't even give you the whole like um you're supposed to know what no no no no they're just like no no bring the kid bring the baby yeah you don't know what you're doing go sleep go rest yeah go sleep and then they look after the baby and someone cooks for you and another person does your clothes and they'll like make sure your clothes are clean and they wash you and they help you and they comb your hair then they bring the baby back but the job of elderly women in a lot of like south african society and african society as a whole they'll just be like no no no Your job was to have the baby. Our job as the village is to help you raise the baby now.
But you relax, you go sleep. You almost, I would be intrigued to find out if anyone who grew up in a very traditional society, if they have phantom cries, because I feel like if you know that there are other women looking after the baby, I wonder if your brain can like actually turn off and go like, it's fine.
They're not crying. And even if they were crying, somebody's there looking after them.
Yeah. Well, I like for Obi and for Luna, I did a thing called Omogu, which is an Igbo culture.
The 40 days after you have a baby, my mom came and my dad being very modern also joined my mom. The first time he did this, I can't believe I'm doing this.
But he came out and and they did all of that like they'd made like the pepper soups and my mom was doing the binding and all of that stuff this time we we didn't do it but yeah that whole thing of being really having people around you there's a tiktok video that's gone super viral um of as a group of black women they drive up to their friend's house they're playing girl by destiny's child and they're screaming it and the their friend closes the window and shuts the curtains and they're like girl they're singing the song that you need to come outside and they break down the door basically she was postpartum and she'd been sending these texts about um not feeling too good and and they were like we were gonna we broke down the door to see And I think like, if you're in a culture where it's not like South Africa or like developing countries where the system is in place, like your friends need to be willing to like break down the door, like just intrude. You know, like, because in the West, you're so afraid of intruding.
Your personal space is overly respected. You know, there's cultures where people just show up to your house, hear you plan.
Hey Josh, are you home? Yeah, you go to a restaurant here. You don't even go to people's house.
I think don't be afraid to intrude in those words. Like, you good? You good? You good? Because I think most women and men are afraid to ask for help.
So you have to just like do the thing. Don't say, what do you need? Just do a thing.
You know what we should do? We'll actually have an episode. We should bring somebody on who like specializes specializes on i mean the topic of maternity and the because i think i think there's a there's a there's a lot in it that we could enjoy because i one of the biggest things i've come to realize in having conversations about everything really is you'll be shocked at how many times the thing that you think doesn't affect you completely affects you you know so you think oh we're talking about pregnancy or postpartum most men will go well i guess i'm not part of this conversation but even in the moments we've had here i think about how many men out there are at an office now stressed out out of their minds and not figuring out what to do or emotionally drained because they don't feel like they're showing up for their kid or not understanding how to be supportive to their partner you know some men out there like josh are not supporting the pregnant women in their lives at all they're not sticking around for the pregnancy i am doing my best i'm only so involved because it is not my child no but i i think we should do it we should have like a full-on you know okay i both of you.
Okay, what's, yeah, you had the Josh question. What's the Josh one? Do you want kids? It's, yeah, yeah, it's tough because I don't think so.
And it used to just be my shortcomings as a person that I felt like I needed to figure out. And then it became a little bit of like how the state of the world and everything, which I know is like here and there, like that's never gonna be a right time in the world to have a kid or anything.
But yeah, I guess I still don't know, which is like a privilege and a luxury. I definitely feel like I need to figure it out in the next few years because I don't want to be an old dad.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be one of those dads that becomes a dad at like 55 and then goes to pick up their kid and other kids are like, what's wrong with your dad? But you know what? All the dads now are old dads, by the way, Josh. Yeah.
Yeah. So it wouldn't be a lot different.
And I will say, you might say old dad.

I would say wise dad.

Wise dad, yeah.

Because I find older parents just carry themselves a little different.

They may not be able to run and jump as high.

Yeah, that's what I'm worried about is I can't play ball like a wise dad.

Yeah, but you know what?

A wise dad is more patient with their kid who can't hit the ball.

Yeah, that's fair.

Because he also can't hit the ball. Yeah, exactly.
Whereas a young dad is still out there being like, well, come on, hit the, come on. There's still a little too much testosterone.
So I don't think you've missed. And also just to the point you said previously, the world has never really been in a better place.
I'll also say that. No, that's fair.
And that's why. We think of it through the lens of like microplastics.
Guys, there was a time when one flu killed your whole family yeah now imagine having a child during that time yeah i think the reasons keep shifting but i think when you're so unsure about something it is um it's a it's a real like sink or swim thing like if i'm making a decision that's career wise and i'm very unsure i'm like what am i really scared of maybe just do it and see what happens but like another person yeah no it's not a see what happens you know and i and if anything i've been like even more stressed out by my friends who kind of had that attitude where i was like i was like so when you know or when you know or when did you feel and they were like oh oh what what do you and then and don't get me wrong those people I think are actually perfectly good parents because I think that they didn't go into it with that they're probably the ones most likely to go ahead and be like oh you'll watch my kid for the afternoon oh that's great and then you'll you'll find sometimes that the people who were like so well thought out and so overly helicopter make some of the most stressed out kids anyway yeah because they're so scared of making a mistake that now the kid is also because i i don't know anything about having kids but i imagine those first few years it's got to be a little bit like how when

you have a when you have like a a dog and you're clearly nervous you're making the dog nervous because this kid doesn't know what anything is no so they just see you going and then they're like okay is that is that life then yeah should life be like that you know so trevor do you want kids oh my do i want kids

uh okay how would i put it um i don't want kids but i don't not want kids okay right i would hope that kids would be the byproduct of something that i'm experiencing but to have kids sex oh man

but you have to But to have kids... Yeah, sex.
Oh, man. But to have...
So here's... Okay, here's why I'll say this.
I have the luxury in that I don't have a body clock like a woman does. So I start with that.
The second thing is... We'll put a pin in that.
That's for another episode. Yeah, but I don't.
I don't have a body clock in that way, right? The other thing for me is that when I think of having a kid and I go like, why do you want a kid? It may be a little too esoteric, but I go, well, I don't want my kid to necessarily have the burden of me wanting them for that reason, to fulfill something in me or to not, you know? Yeah, that's great. I think it's important to not put that on the kid.
You have ego death already when it comes to... Yeah, like I don't like it when people do that with kids.
You know, they go like, oh, I just want... Some people be like, they want something to be theirs.
They want something to love them and then the kid doesn't do that and then you get like parents who guilt their kids. Why don't you send your mom there? Oh, I can't believe, you know, I wanted a son who I'd be proud of.
Like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Yeah. I think genuinely, and I know it's not perfect, but I think a kid should be something where you go like, I have so much love to give that, man, I just need another human being to pour this into.
I just have too much love. I just got to pour this love and pour this love and pour this love and pour this love out.
So I'm neither for nor against kids. The only thing I know is I have never met a person who regrets having children.
Oh, you haven't? Never. Genuinely, I've never met.
I have. But I've met many people who regret when they had a kid.
Oh, interesting. And I've met many people who regret who they had the kid with.
But I've never met somebody who regrets the kid themselves. Now, I'm sure there are outliers.
Oh, I get what you mean. I've met people who got with somebody abusive, alcoholic, you name it, in every shape and every way.
But they will go, ah, but this child. I've met people who had a child and they're struggling financially and their life has really been hard and their family disowned them because of who they had the kid with and maybe the person left, whatever it is.
They will but this child oh man this child the person they had it with they might regret the circumstances they might regret too young too busy to this to this to that so in that world in that way i just think to myself i would love to be able to give somebody the greatest gift which is not just being chosen but which is being intentional intentional. That's all I'd want.
I want the kid, if they ask me like, hey, why am I here? I go like, no, because I had excess love to give. And so that's why you're here.
You know what I mean? I just wanted somebody to love. I think you two both make great fathers.
And I think- This is how she tricks people, Josh. No, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I think you make great fathers. And maybe one of the sad things about the world is that I have friends that are like child-free by choice.
Yeah. And they'd make the most brilliant mothers and fathers.
And it's often the people that are making the real calculus who've done that deep spiritual work, who like experienced ego death, who make the decision not to be parents, who would make brilliant parents. I agree with you.
And, but at the end of the day, I think I don't see, I came to a point where I don't see my children as possessions. Maybe this is very Christian mentality.
I'm like, you know, a gift from God. God has given me them to kind of guide in this world and uncover who they're supposed to be.
But they're not just mine. So I don't think you have to have children yourself biologically to parent.
And I feel like if we had a more expansive view of parenting, that children around us are our collective responsibility. This is literally Africa.
Then it's like, do you want biological children that live in your live in your house yeah that's all it is question but then it's just like you can have children via other means and then because i don't my kids aren't my possessions i'm just their custodians i'm here to like yeah guide them my dream is and i'll also caveat this because i don't want to fall into a josh johnson here but like michael jackson messed it up i'll start with that because my dream was always as i was always like i always wanted to create spaces in my house that would be great for kids that weren't mine because i thought it would be fun when my friend's kids come over yeah they go like oh uncle trevor's house and he's got those video games and he's got an arcade machine and i'm like yeah this is great for them you know what i mean i like the fact yeah and people go like but you don't have kids i'm like yes but there will be children in my life and i think it is cool that i can facilitate this for them in some way shape or form yeah but now if you are a grown man with no kids who has a kid's basement yeah so yeah no there are problems yeah yeah but i i will say though one thing last thing that i think could be helpful and this is maybe gonna make you take back what you say about me being a good dad maybe never maybe it's but this is this is you know in in a co-parenting situation especially a situation where kind of like you said trevor people are like it shouldn't have been this person or something like that. I think that one, one like sort of olive branch, one thing that you could do is be like, all right, look, let's be honest with each other as like mom and dad, let's be honest with each other.
You don't really want to be here, right? But you could help me out. Every time you are here, it's going to be like a big celebration to be like, wow, dad's here, blah, blah, blah.
Right? But because I'm with the kids almost all the time, you have to tell the kids, hey, if you act up, if you disrespect your mom in any way, I can't come in the house. There's just something.
I don't know. I don't know.
It's like, I wish I could be there, but you were mean to your mom. Damn, Josh.
And so dang, I can't. Don't do that.
You know what I mean? And then now.

Don't do that, Josh.

You know what?

This is a psychological war.

Now, I wouldn't do this

because I would want to be there.

But I'm saying,

if you already know this person is a deadbeat,

then I'm going to be there anyway.

At least game the system a little bit.

Be like,

ah, I have to move now.

You were so mean to your mom.

Don't do that.

Oh, my God.

Can you imagine?

Oh, man.

Can you imagine the stress a kid is having?

The damage.

The therapy. My dad didn't come because of me.
I didn't do it. Yo, but this was fun.
Okay. Christiana, congratulations.
Thank you. Congratulations.
On a third healthy child. Can I tell you, that's the only thing I like, you know, I don't take for granted the health of a mother, the health of a black mother, by the way.
Yeah. It's no's no joke yo so i'm happy that your baby's

healthy i'm happy that you are healthy we're here huh make it more people like this is still making the podcast yeah but my favorite thing i learned when i was in bhutan from a monk was he taught me he said uh he said one of the hardest things to learn in life is that there will always be storms, but you will never live a full life unless you realize when you are between storms.

So he says like the greatest joy in life is just learning to know when you are between storms.

Because when you're in a storm, you're in a storm.

But when you're not in a storm and you don't realize you're not in a storm, then you're not enjoying the fact that you're not in a storm.

And so I'm excited because now with Christiana, we're no longer in a storm and you don't realize you're not in a storm then you're not enjoying the fact that you're not in a storm and so i'm excited because now with christiana we're no longer in a storm she's not pregnant for a while and so we get to enjoy that for a minute for a while she's not

gonna be pregnant again you know what i will take it as it comes and if you get pregnant again we

will celebrate it but for now we will enjoy this. This was fun, y'all.
Yeah. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions.
The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackl.
Claire Slaughter is our producer.

Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown.

Thank you so much for listening.

Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now? I'm out.