How To Be The Most Healed Guy with Neal Brennan [VIDEO]

There are few people I know who have spent more time in comedy than Neil Brennan, like few human beings.

And when I say comedy, I mean every level of comedy.

TV.

Administration.

Yeah, no really.

Labor work.

No, really.

Scheduling.

You are that guy.

Club comedy.

Neil Brennan has been in the trenches of the trenches.

So I was going to ask you about this, but like, I feel like there is no comedian who does not have something wrong with them. No good comedian, actually.
I learned that from The Daily Show. I was like, all these people are insane.
I was like, these are not normal people. Yeah, and it doesn't matter what it is.
It might be your family. It might be the country you lived in.
It might be just a neurodivergent thing that you have in your own head and you grew up in a fine world.

What's funny is I do a podcast called Blocks where I have people on and we talk about their issues.

Yeah.

And I know that they're not the real issues.

Do you know what I mean?

Like these are the issues that you're willing.

These are the showcase issues.

Oh, man.

And I'm like, the real issue. But do you think they know? A couple days a year, they know.
They know. A couple days a year, they can actually be like, ugh.
But they don't want to look at it. This is What Now? With Trevor Noah.
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If you don't know Neil Brennan, you probably don't know comedy, right? Neil Brennan is in many ways like the Forrest Gump of comedy he has been everywhere he knows everyone no comedian who is worth their salt in anything does not have a story about neil brennan i don't care where they're from i don't care what they're doing every i'm talking about comedians from other countries as well not just in america like they know neil brennan right i know some of your story but i i don't want to miss it especially for for the audience so neil brennan is born where um philadelphia outside philadelphia okay i had like ireland in my head for some reason it feels like it feels like it really is such an irish name it really is i'm an irish citizen but i got my oh you are yeah i got my citizenship like recently oh look i don't know what to do with it but congratulations just you just do it just use it i'm gonna yeah eu i'm gonna move somewhere um the uh okay so you're born in philadelphia the last of 10 last of 10 how many boys how many girls six total six boys four girls and yeah and then i't know, it was just, you've been the youngest of 10. It's pretty chaotic.
And it's a lot of kids in a house. It's a bit like an orphanage.
But no one comes. Were your parents like...
No one comes to take anybody. Okay, I'm curious.
Like, the age gap between one and 10, and were your parents... 10 kids in 16 years 16 years but i'm curious about

by the time your parents got to you were they like oh fuck it it was pretty it was just kind

of like ah yeah you'll it's whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen what but i would but

still i was like i worked a lot i've caddied i uh but i was like drank smoked and my mom would

just kind of not even where how old are you when this is happening 13 damn yeah yeah 13 14

I'm't. So you were a troublemaker, kind of.
Yeah, but I'd stop once. I remember the end of high school being like, I don't really need to drink.
Like, I've never been that into it. It was just like, I was just doing it.
I wouldn't much of i wouldn't much i was i was similar in that like i was friends with a lot of friend groups and pretty funny and like what was the was the family funny because i i've never known this

part of your comedy like who was the funny in your family or where did the funny come from

my dad liked comedy i think a lot of what he his jokes were kind of stolen um from like franks and

Thank you. the funny in your family or where did the funny come from my dad liked comedy i think a lot of what he his jokes were kind of stolen um from like frank sinatra and like where i'd go like oh i know that cadence where i'd listen to frank i'd watch a frank sinatra and i'd be like oh that's where he got it his he was one of 13 so and it's a lot of boys in that family.
It's probably seven boys in this family. So,

so it was like a lot of sort of sarcasm.

And,

and then,

uh,

this is a funny story at one year at Thanksgiving.

I'm in high school.

My,

one of my brothers said,

Kevin,

you're not even the funniest one in the family.

Neil is happy Thanksgiving,

everyone.

Wow.

Like kind of overly competitive for funniest,

I guess.

Uh,

specifically for funniest. Yeah.
I, well, I guess in this case, yeah. Yeah.
Or something. Yeah, there was, it was.
But now having said that, my older brothers and sisters were all so great to me in that they all had jobs that were interesting that I got access to. My brother Joe was a caddy on the PGA Tour.
So I would go to PGA Tour events. Oh, damn.
Kevin was a comedian, so I got entree into that. In high school, knew David Tell, knew Louie, met Louie when I was in high school, Ray Romano, all these guys.
Tommy worked at the Chicago Stadium and Wrigley Field, so I used to go to Cubs games, Bulls games.

I saw a white girl

mistake Michael Jordan for somebody

else. That's

how long ago this was. Imagine how

long ago this was.

A white girl said, hey, are

you Orlando Woolridge?

And his, I remember Michael Jordan's face falling and be like no i'm michael jordan this is this is prehistoric time so i got i i got a lot of possibilities in i got to see a lot of possibilities and like a lot of life choices and like paths from the family whenever i think of big families, I I don't know, I'm torn you know, my family, like brothers are

sp... life choices and life paths from the family.
Whenever I think of big families, I don't know, I'm torn. You know, my family, like brothers are split, right? So I have two younger brothers.
One is 10 years younger, one is 20 years younger. So for all intents and purposes, it feels like we were all single kids in a way, but then we all occupy an age position, you know? So I do feel like the eldest because of age.
Has your mom's parenting changed a lot? So I would say she's changed, but not her parents. So her ability to execute her parenting style has evolved with age.
Like I was talking to my youngest brother about this the other day. It's like, I don't think my mom's vibe changed, but when I was young, she could chase me.
When my brother was naughty, she couldn't chase him as much as she could chase me. So I think she then had to adapt.
But over a long distance, she always got me. She always got me.
But I always wondered, like, in a big family, like, because I craved it most of my life. And then I would meet people in mega big families, and they would say, oh, I felt felt forgotten i felt like there wasn't enough love

to go around like did did you feel like that yeah i think just it's a resources issue now

having said that the the economist thomas soul used to say uh there are no solutions there's

only trade-offs which i think is just true about everything so there's no there's no one thing like

that's better because then only children there's like downsides to only children apparently yeah um the ego and they don't know how to share they don't know how to interact or whatever but they're very loved maybe too loved um i i don't so i don't i think you could persuade me either way i think if a kid's loved that's good if if but i wasn't necessarily like didn't get the most love from my dad necessarily specifically my mom like wanted to yeah but like had to cook or whatever yeah um so and she did but it was just it's just you know she had her hands full so so i don't know i don't know what the i don't know what the best what do you you're you you're doing it i know how do you well i'm curious before i answer this do you and your siblings get on are you close remember that thanksgiving story yeah that spirit remains oh i mean it's it's so it's openly competitive

my dad was competitive okay with us so i think that there's like that's kind of so he sounds like succession i mean it's like your dad it's white trash succession you said it no exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's competitive.
One of my brothers used to keep track of who made the most money. Best Doc.
Yeah, and then Chappelle's show happened and he was like, this is stupid. So, I don't, you know, I would say it's a mixed bag.
I think some are close, some are not. But the good news about 10 kids, you don't have to be close with all of them.
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's multiple families in one family.
Because most of the time I feel like your siblings sort of, not have to be, but you have to be close to them because these are the only people who've shared your existence. But then when there's 10, there's a lot of people who've shared your existence.
You can choose within the 10. And there's also that generational thing of my brother, Joe, 16 years older than me.
So he said to me recently, he's like, I realized we never really knew each other. I was like, yeah.
How would we have? He moved out when I was four or something or maybe even yeah yeah yeah so it becomes more like an uncle thing also the thing with siblings is just like if you weren't siblings oftentimes you wouldn't be friends like that's just like if you met them what are the odds but now you're forced to become friends which is what do you okay so tell me what your plan is and if you're executing it i I'm reading this book called Siblings Without Rivalry. Okay.
Oh, look at that. When I'm done with the book, I'll let you know.
I'm really afraid because I come from, I don't know, and I don't know if it's like African family dynamics. I don't want to be generalized here, but I always remember there were always like fights about land and fights about...
That sounds so parochial. I was about to say, that sounds like an insult that someone would say to an African.
I'm just going to listen. It sounds like Trump.
They're eating cats and dogs. They're fighting over land.
No, no. But like, I've just...
Conflict was kind of ambient in the extended family. Me and my sisters are figuring it out.
We're at very different phases in our lives. But we but we're a good it's underneath that big tree from black panther right that's the one just a few i'm seeing this feud right yeah christiana there are a few things you need to focus on with your siblings you know the weirdest thing for me with black panther is like, sometimes when I do that, because it's like the accent that they're doing is a South African accent, but they're not a South African accent.
So even when I do it, I have to like, I have to undo. And you were in it and do a different accent, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I wanted to match the general accent. So I didn't want to come in there with like a weird like what is this guy doing yeah and then so i was like no i'll try and like figure out the vibe that everyone's in and then and then i'll go from there yes and then so it's it's very weird for me um are your are your parents still alive my mama's yeah mom is still how old is she 91 wow or 90 90 yeah what was it like for you when your dad passed away because you know you you share very openly in your special about how like and i think you and i've connected a lot on this growing up in a home with a man who's very violent with his alcohol with like it's a terrifying existence yeah and i think you and i i don't know we bond around this i think a lot of our comedy is shaped by this or this feeling, but I've always wondered, what did it feel like when your dad passed away? You know, the interesting thing was like, we'd kind of made peace prior to him dying.
And then he did the thing with the will, which is in three mics. But for those who don't know, what did? Netflix is a streaming platform.
And I have a special on there called Three Mics. It's one of my three specials.
One called Three Mics, one called Blocks, and one called Crazy Good, which is the newest one. It's pretty popular.
My dad, we never really got along. And then he died and left money as well to everyone but me.
So it was just painful. That part was painful.
But we, I just don't, it's weirdly like doing three mics got it out of me. Got the pain out of me.
It used to weigh down on on me it used to be like a cause of anger yeah and now it just either from doing three mics or something i just can kind of see the positive in that and i actually wrote him a note before he died love like i appreciate the socioeconomic position he put me in meaning like i got to go to nye i'm paid for some of it but like nyu is not cheap yeah um anything was possible right which i think is a thing that you is a kind of as a parent has got to be one of the main goals he one time said like you know when i was growing up i we were told all you had to provide your kid was, uh, food and shelter. And I remember going like, you know, the government can do that.
But so I guess it's, he's born in 1930. Like that's a different world.
It's just a different, and I've gotten more, I don't even know if I've gotten empathetic, but I've certainly gotten less angry as time goes on. I'm curious, were you angry because you thought he was trying to spite you? Because like my instant, mine goes to as a parent, he didn't leave you the money because you were the most successful and he's the kid that thought you're going to be okay that's like my pet giving him this grace and yes but did you was your anger because you're like oh you're trying to spike me yeah it felt like a flick like a last little flick like oh well you're mr tough guy or something um but yeah i it could go either it's one of those things like could like, could be.
And you haven't, have you asked your mom? Have you asked your siblings? Basically. Yeah.
The, they, they tried to talk him out of it. Oh, so they knew.
Yeah. So you didn't know leading up.
I didn't know. Wow.
They knew. And they tried to talk him out of it.
And he was like that. And he just, and then I've heard from another brother that he did, he was sort of slagging him about like, you're just here for the money.
Oh, wow. Like it was sort of a real, he went down swinging, so to speak.
So I don't really know what to make of it other than I'm glad I don't carry it because it's just not, it's not helpful. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.
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Always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted. So I'm curious because you guys are both comedians.
I'm not. Is comedy really that cathartic? Because like hearing Neil, you say like, I released this thing.
I surrendered it and can put it behind me. Some of it is, you just say it so much that it's in a weird way you'll relate.
It's like material you don't believe anymore. It's like you just, Chappelle has an observation that jokes are like tires, that the tread wears out.
And if I'm doing a show about my dad, you just have to watch. It's like just after a while it's like what so there's partially that which is just sort of like um getting tired of saying something um and i would say it's more from the spiritual stuff of like releasing it but there was before the spiritual stuff there was this idea of like yeah i don't know i think i just sort of like talked it out have you you talk less personally than i do but but your earlier shows were a little more yeah i actually so i used to speak more personally and then i realized won't make that mistake again no i i think there was a there's a sort of a weird idea i adopted in and around taking over the daily show and was like don't make it about you do you know i mean it was like? It was like, okay, it's about the show.
It's about the work. It's about the, you know, and, and now on the other side of it, now I'm going back into more personal material.
Now I'm going back into, um, but it's funny. I, I, I never thought, I never thought it was cathartic.
So even, even in your early work, when you're sharing about your experience, being mixed race, it wasn't, I'll be honest. I don't, I don't think, and I don't think it's cathartic for most comedians, if I'm honest.
I think what happens a lot of the time is comedians have found like a – it's almost like a shield that you can put in front of you to seem like you are dealing with the thing, but you are not dealing with the thing. And you're speaking about it to people.
So people are like, oh, wow, you're speaking about it, so you must be over it or you must be. But I don't think it's cathartic.
The reason I don't think it's cathartic is because comedians get to do the thing with the audience. And that is we escape with the laugh.
Do you know what I mean? And so I think real catharsis requires you to stay in something until it is released, as opposed to finding a way to escape. Is it avoidance then? No, it's not avoidance.
Make it too psychological. Look, it's not avoidance.
I think, and I was thinking about this before this conversation. I was going to ask you, this generation of comedians is the first.
I remember the shift. I don't know if you remember.
There was a point in comedy where we saw almost every few months, a comedian committing suicide somewhere. You would just hear it.
You'd walk into a comedy club. The good old days.
Everyone would be around. Everyone would be around a table in the club.
And there'd just be like a sad feeling. And you'd be like what's going on And be like oh did you hear about Bobby Did you hear about blah blah blah And be like what happened They're like oh yeah no they found him in a hotel room In Pennsylvania They found him in a hotel room in Ohio And this was constant And it was almost expected In many ways And then I don't know what happened.
But suddenly something shifted. All of a sudden, comedians wouldn't be ordering the chicken wings backstage.
They were ordering the celery and the kale and the baby carrots and the hummus. And then they wouldn't be ordering a drink like a cocktail or whiskey.
They'd be ordering water. And then comedians would be know and then comedians be like oh yeah i gotta i gotta leave now i'm working out in the morning i'm i mean i we're in a way it's a contradiction in that that people are getting i think culture in general is getting more like self-care wellness yeah well yeah um i now the thing i wanted to talk to you about was, I had something I wanted to talk to you about, which is the, what I call wisdom theater or wellness theater, performative wellness, performative wisdom.
Meaning we talked about a mutual friend of ours who wanted to be the most healed guy. Oh, Jesus.
Yeah, this is killing me. Where people go on podcasts, they host podcasts, they, no offense.
No offense to all of us, including yourself. Every company included.
Yes. Where it becomes about performing wisdom, performing self-care.
Perform altruism, performing, and all,

and it's like, this isn't it either. Do you think it's even helpful to have all of this, like,

I meditated this morning and just all that stuff? Because I believe it's all for in service of

being better at capitalism. I always say, you know, the easiest way to see it, I'll tell my friends, is when you look at a post, let's say online, as soon as somebody says, here's how I did it, or, you know, this is how I became more productive, I'm like, no, that's not the point.
Like meditating is not about becoming more productive. Yeah, Buddha was all about rising and grinding.
If you know the story at all, it's all about i i don't know i i just think we're in the age of it right now and i accept it you know and i'll be honest i i i am i i don't i don't mind the fact that the trend night right now is to be healthy right because well that's a fine trend if you're gonna if you have to pick trends yeah i love wellness it's the best work hall isn't being the best of you you don't even want to best i'm vegan so i don't want to talk don't talk to me um there was a time in comedy where one thing comedians all shared was comedy right it didn't matter like who you were where you were from what you did black white old young woman man it really didn't matter it didn't matter we had this thing where we would go into a comedy club and it was like comedy time yeah and we all just had comedy and then i i noticed over the past few years and it's funny i'm less worried about it for comedy and i'm more worried about what it means for society is i've noticed a creep of polarization, even in comedy. Like comedy used to be, everyone does everything and they're comedians and someone will get on stage and say the craziest joke that is whatever, you know, it can be anything misogynistic, racist, you name it.
But it's within the confines of comedy. Like they're using the tools to make a joke about it.
Right. And then now comedy slowly becoming like, oh, well, those people, that's their politics we don't do comedy with them and these people we don't do comedy with them like do you think politics is going to end comedy as we know it um i it is well it's called it's the world it's like i've known joe rogan 30 plus years and i didn't know his politics until nine years ago and it's not because they were they he didn't have any it's just because you didn't know you literally didn't know what somebody's politics were yeah until i am gonna say 2008 the internet social media and then once social media started then it became like twitter and dunking on people and you see so-and-so's tweet and that's that's i'm triggered and that's inappropriate and that's they're gonna pay and now i have to like mute them or i have to not like i've actually thought can i like this tweet because there's going to be some sort of- So there's people who will see that you liked it.
Yes. And then we're all part of so many different groups that we've always been, but it just kind of didn't, they weren't, you didn't wear them all all the time.
Yeah. Now it's almost like the, there was a Daily Show joke, I think, where they had the Formula One or the NASCAR sponsorships.
Right, right. But it was all the badges.
All the badges of people that had donated. We're all these things now, and we used to just not be.
I was thinking this back when Elon Musk had the rocket come back down to Earth. I remember watching that.
I texted him. I was so excited.
Go ahead. Known him 29 years.
Go on. You're clearly a verified user.
Yeah, I watched the rocket come down. First, I thought it was a fake video because it's so amazing that it looks fake.
Did you watch the longer one? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The 90 second one? That's the one I'm talking about.
Wait, this is going to land? So I thought it was going,

I thought someone had reversed the video because I was like, this makes no sense.

Yeah.

I was like, physics, what is happening here?

And I'm watching all of this.

And then I texted all my friends,

especially like friends who love tech and everything.

I was like, this is the most amazing thing.

Have you seen this?

And I was like, have you?

And people were like, screw that guy.

I know.

Whereas you were going like, maybe the fascism's worth it. That's not what I was saying.
That's not what I was saying. And I've now learned on the podcast, I have to now be very clear.
That's not what I was. No.
This does not represent me. No.
And even in my group of friends, I didn't understand, and I still don't understand, why people feel the need to tell me how they feel about a thing that I know they feel about. But I'm like, I'm your friend.
If I send you a video of an Elon Musk rocket being caught from space, and I go, this is amazing. Don't say to me, Elon Musk sucks.
Yeah. I know how you feel.

They're afraid in that thing of like, if I like this tweet, am I going to get in trouble? Yeah, but this is in our own messages. But we're friends.
Right. But it's infected that as well.
Oh, man, that's terrifying to me. It really has.
I think that is terrifying to me. Once people start releasing texts in court cases, in doxing cases, any of these, that's like, this is bad.
No. This is bad.
No. Okay, I'm going to go on the record and say, I will never judge anybody for texts that get released unless those texts indict them about something they've done in public because of the con it's like a comedy club it goes back to the same rule if we're in a comedy club we know that the people in here are trying to say things that elicit a laugh from the audience so a comedian will make a joke about anything they'll make a joke about murder they'll make a joke about genocides they'll make a joke about rape they They'll make a joke.
I heard a comedian make a joke referring to a bunch of suicides as the good old days. That was on this podcast.
I don't know where I heard it. That was on one of the episodes.
What? Go back through the episodes and you'll find it. But that's what I mean.
It's like there's the context. And when we maintain that context, people know, oh, yeah, you can send something to your friend or your family member that is egregious.
It can be the most horrible thing towards them or towards somebody else. But because of the context, they know that you're joking.
They know that, do you get what I'm saying? And I actually worry about that world. I don't want to live in a world where we now have to sort of like.
Thought police. Yeah.
We have to now go like, I've never had that that thought i do not think anything that is bad could be funny i do not think never say in private what you won't stand behind in public no but it's a joke i wouldn't say many things you know i say crazy stuff in private you do actually like what's then there's no difference between private and public yeah obviously there are private act there's things that you do private that you will never do in public, but just be who you are. I think it's easier.
Have you ever been on a group chat or even a one-to-one chat where someone's texted something and you've been like, boy, that's hot. Yeah.
I mean, that's what texts are for. I agree.
Every group me but have you ever gone do i give it a ha

ha do i give it a thumbs up do i what do i give this and if it ever goes public i i've truly had that so i i think that society you know it's not to delve too deep into the world of like the shadow self and all of these things, but we need to accept that as human beings, the paradox

of the brain is that it is thinking about what it should not think about, even when we're telling it to think about something. It's mostly an intrusive thought.
Exactly. Everything.
90% intrusive thought. When I'm on the freeway, most of the time I'm thinking, crash that, crash that.
Run over here. Crash that, run over there, run over there, crash that, crash that.
I'm not doing it though, but my brain is going, what would happen? What would happen? What would happen? You know what I mean? So I actually, personally as Trevor, I go, I judge people based on their actions, not on their thoughts, because I go, that is, in my opinion, what makes you a good person is that you act in a way that is good for other people or for yourself and you don't follow all the thoughts that are, in fact, if you follow all the thoughts, I think they would put you in an asylum. They would say that you are...
You listen to the voices in your head. You'd just be in jail.
Exactly. I personally just feel suspicious of people who are like nice about people all the time.
Just like that person makes me feel... Oh, I mean, that is true.
No, because I think... No, them with you.
But that's the world we're in right now. If you say anything about anyone, public or private, it has to be a nice or kind thing.
Cause I just think it's, it's not the human experience sometimes. Like, cause I'm like, Oh, I don't like them.
And people are like, why? I'm just like, it's just a feeling they've done nothing. I just like, that's a real thing to have like this visceral reaction to someone.
But I think the way our politics are in the world, the way the world is going, it's just that people think that they have to play nice all the time.

It's just getting more and more.

It's just the,

the,

the,

uh,

it's creeping.

Do you think it's hurt comedy as a whole?

No.

Okay.

I don't,

I mean,

I don't,

there's no comedy.

First of all,

it's never been more popular.

It's never been more lucrative.

So this idea that comedy is being hurt or cancel culture, any of that stuff, it's like everyone I know that I want to do a joke like, yeah, you got to be careful as a comedian because, you know, you could say something and then somebody will clip it.

And the next thing you know, you'll be doing arenas.

It's everyone I know that gets canceled.

You get canceled up.

It's like it's like it's the crucible.

It's like, how are you going to respond to this to this yes and then that's how people judge you and if you if you cower and genuflect and or if you ignore it or if you double down or there's like ways to do it but it makes the audience trust you more i think yes um i remember I remember I bumped into Shane Gillis and I remember chatting to him and I was like, and I genuinely mean this. I was like, I'm so proud of Shane Gillis as a human being and as a comedian because he got fired off of SNL.
People discarded him. They're like, he's out.
Then he amassed a huge amount of fans who were like yeah bring more prime case they were like bring more racism bring more they were like do do the thing that and i'll never forget his first shows that he booked i think was at the stand actually in new york shane comes out and he basically addresses the fact that people have come there to see racist joe and's like that's not what i do noodle like a chinese yeah and and he and he didn't and then he he subverted the whole thing and he joked about it and then he and even now like i go genuinely shane gillis is one of the people where and i don't think anyone quote unquote let's say has an excuse but he would have had an excuse to be an asshole shane was like no he's like hey man i didn't like them. I'm still going to make jokes.
And genuinely now, I think he's one of the best comedians working in the world. And when you watch his comedy, I don't care what you are, by the way, conservative, liberal, whatever you think you are.
Shane Gillis is funny. But I also think it's amazing to see somebody who was able to withstand the horde that supports the worst instincts.
Yeah. Because one person can go, Neil, how could you say that? You get canceled.
And then what happens is there's a crowd that comes in to claim you. And they're like, yes, Neil.
Yes, join us. All the things, yes.
And you know how we feel about those people. And you're like, man, I just made a joke that some people didn't like.
And they're like, no, but Neil, do only those jokes. And Shane, I don't know how he did it as a human, because that must have been really hard.
I think he shrugged it all. He just seemed to kind of go like, I don't know.
I don't know how, though. This next segment, Core Memories, is brought to you by Starbucks.
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Order your favorite holiday beverage on the Starbucks app today. You get in trouble from time to time, and I don't say that jokingly, but I'm saying, how do you, how do you, how do you, what's your philosophy? So it's funny, Christiana and I were talking about this.
We were literally talking about this. So like after the Ta-Nehisi episode on the podcast, right? I had, you name it, I had people phoning me, everybody from everywhere.
You know, so every Like you run the spectrum from friends, friends, close friends going like Trevor, how could you have that man on? And that is extremist and it's anti-Semitic and this is trash. And why would you even sit there and listen to him? And all the way through to strangers just being like, this is why you should be dead.
I wish apartheid had killed you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you got my message.
Go ahead. And the two of you know me in those moments more than most people, right? And the first thing I do is listen.
Because I go like, all right, tell me everything. Just tell me everything, you know? And so like a friend of mine would just be like, oh, he's like, you know, I can't believe you.
Why didn't you ask Tanasi this?

And why didn't you ask him?

And I responded.

And I said, I was like, hey, the same way if somebody is coming to talk about like their documentary about something that happened in Israel, I'm not going to push them on everything about what's happening in Gaza.

Because this is the part of the story that we're here to talk about.

And it was interesting.

Like when I have those conversations, I just listen to what the person is saying, what they're feeling. And then I try and understand where we are missing each other, you know? So the one note, for instance, I said to a friend, one of my friends, he was like, I hated the fact that you talked about Jewish people and then you talked about Israel and you talked about Jewish people, but then you conflated the two.
And I was like, oh, yeah, actually you're right. Yeah.
Well, that's what I i'm curious about how much because i i find that how how much does your uh listening affect your judgment how big does how big is it how much growth is there go ahead because to me i i always see trevor as very like unflappable maybe that's like the swiss german like the veneer i'm like no he seems unflappable so i was like because it was like the backlash was a bit weird so i hit him up but i think trevor just heals quickly and better i call him wolverine like he like heals very quickly and better because he takes a ton of steroids no maybe i don't know it's the shrooms i think but no like i think he does feel it that's what i'm no i feel all of it he feels he feels everything he's such a pisces i feel all of it what do you do he's very sensitive no i am very sensitive and i feel all of it i wouldn't have no i'm like but you don't like no so okay you don't see it so there's a few things that have you asked me me this question and I realized there's a few things that have helped me understand this.

And it's funny because I think, Neil, you'll have something similar but different because of your upbringing.

So, first of all, I grew up in a house and in a country where there was a lot of violence, right?

And so when I was a child watching this, I never once looked at it and went, yeah, this is right.

I even talk to my mom now and I go, why would you get so angry when you were hitting me? And she's like, because you wouldn't listen. I'm like, yeah, but why did you get angry though? I was like, you know, you could have just like done it as like a, all right, kid, here comes your punishment.
And then she would say, she's like, I was so frustrated. And I was like, I know I, you know, cut something open.
I know I dismantled the TV. I know I burnt down a room.
Whatever I did. But even me as a child, I would go, that was not ideal.
But I'm not going to lose my cool over this. And then I'd get my beating.
And then I would cry and I'd feel it. I'd feel everything.
But the thing that would stick with me is how it didn't make sense for people to lose their cool. And I talk to my friends about it.
and we have these big fights, but I go, every one of our parents, especially African parents, but I mean, I know, you know how Neil grew up. Yo, parents were beating kids.
And this was like a normal thing. And now we joke about it.
You'd be like, oh, you pray there's no shoe around. And you pray, like Eddie Murphy had those jokes.
And we all laughed about it. But I think I grew up watching this going, huh, this is not, it doesn't seem to be ideal and it doesn't seem to get where I'm going.
So maybe what I did a little too much was I internalize it. So I keep it in me.
But then what I do is I, and that's where ADHD helps. I'm having six conversations now at the same time.
So you're speaking to me and I'm listening to what you're saying. And then I'm sort of going to like one tree, which is like, okay, agree with you how do I disagree with you what's happening here what's not happening here do I connect with you do I not connect with you can I see your humanity and I always go if I see you as a person which I do with most human beings on the surface genuinely I go like I'll still find something to connect with you on and so on the other side of it when you ask me like how it change me? I genuinely listen.
So a person almost only has to tell me once. And I will keep that because it means something.
So when my friend said to me, my friend who's Jewish and spent time in Israel said, I didn't like that you said Jewish and Israel, but you conflated the two. And I was like, oh, okay.
I will never do that again. But then when it comes to like arguing about whether or not it's an apartheid state, I said, you are my friend and I love you, but we're not going to agree on this.
And I don't think we need to agree on this to remain friends. In fact, as my friend, I hope that you'll still keep me in your life and I will work to keep you in my life, but I don't want to lose you because of this thing, because there's so many things that we're going to disagree on this is just one of the biggest ones you know and and i don't know you know you know whether it's just this moment in time or social media or i don't know what it is but i feel like people are like people have less and less ability now to maintain friendships or to maintain connections that also hold a a of disagreement or conflict it's the same thing it's that thing about if i like if i write haha to this text your you have this constituency in your head or imagined or whatever that i can't say disagree on this but love you the same because, because then you'll lose your constituency.
Yeah. And you see, for me, I don't think that moves us forward, because I've always believed that people don't change by hanging out with people who are like them.
I agree. I think we change by rubbing on each other, just rubbing off on each other.
And I think the common humanity that's why i come back to stand up i think of the comedians i used to meet in comedy clubs and i still till this day i mean everything racist misogynistic whatever you want to call it but but they're also human beings yeah you know what i mean and i'm not excusing any of the things they did The same way I'm sure someone wouldn't excuse some of the things I did or said as a person. You all have your faults.
But the one thing that would connect us first and foremost is that we were comedians. You remember we'd even say as comedians, we'd be like, man, have you seen that guy's new bit? You'd be like, it is the most racist bit you've ever seen.
But God, it's funny. Yeah.
And holding that paradox, holding that cognitive dissonance, I think was key to us. And you would see, not all, but you would see a lot of the comedians evolve over time.
Because society would evolve. And you would shift.
And you'd find a lot of the comedians who were doing the jokes they were doing back in the day wouldn't do them anymore. And they would evolve slowly.
My objection to this primarily is like it's fine when it's all like theoretical. We're working on jokes.
That person's a bit racist. That person's a bit misogynistic.
But we're living in a time where women currently can't get abortions in many ways. Completely within.
So there's like real world implications, whether it's sexism, racism, transphobia. So I think it's difficult because these people in our lives that have unsavory views, it feels like they're winning.
I feel like the world is shifting to the right. I feel like the world is a scarier place.
And that's like just true. Like you look at elections, you look at all of this stuff.
And so it's like, it's harder for people to be like, well, I can, I can see you as a whole human being when your vote is the reason that like I was terrified to do IVF in Texas. Because I was like, well, I'm a woman with a history of loss.
And if I need to get a DNC, will I be able to get one? Will a doctor give me one? Right. So there's like real world implications for like these controversial right wing or even like super far left ideas.
And some people are like, don't want to be around that in my personal life and i don't blame them do you know what i mean of course and that's i in the two thoughts i had is it's a bit like being friends with people two people who don't get along and you're like ah i was just with you have lunch with somebody yeah and then you're like yeah and you're like am i a piece of garbage both of these people have been good to me yeah and then the other thing i the other thought i had was does do jokes lead to action if you make joke, does that mean you stand with that?

And that's where comedy comes in because it's like, do I?

I don't know.

I can make a joke about anything.

I don't stand with it.

It's just my brain did that construction

and I was like, this might be fun.

But if a comedian does their job properly

and the joke is good enough,

you won't get in trouble. So I used to think that.
But then I realized we've robbed the world of context. And on one of our previous episodes here, when Yuval Noah was here, the author of Sapiens and the Nexus, he said something that really stuck with me.
And it was, we are living in an age where we have more information than we've ever, ever, ever, ever, ever had in our lives.

We have access to more information,

but we don't have enough time to process it.

And I think the problem with comedy now, let's say, or jokes even, is there's no context anymore.

Then even when Twitter began,

the first people who followed comedians on Twitter,

and people all agree that this was a place where people are making jokes. They are not real things, right? And then the context spread, the algorithm moved things around.
Now you're sitting at home, minding your own business. You're a super religious person.
And then some video will come on your feed where someone's trashing religion, making jokes about it. And you're like, you get angry,

but there's no context. You didn't want to see that.
You didn't ask to see. And that's, I think that's like one of my key issues with social media is the fact that people are not asking to see, they're not opting in in any way.
You know, I feel like it should be like an opt in as opposed to an opt out, but people are seeing videos that they don't want to see videos that are like actively making them Angrier, sadder, more afraid, etc And I think that's actually Hurting comedy And hurting the idea of comedy as opposed to It being or not being Does that make sense? I also think there's some things that people should be Listen, I like shame You do love shame And I'm just like Whether you're a comedian, whoever? And I'm just like, whether you're a comedian, whoever you are, I don't kink shame. I'm proud of you.
So the one place he doesn't shame is kink. Okay.
Shame, but no kinks. I can follow it.
Either way, I have an erection. Go ahead.
Okay, Neil. No, I'm just like, there's some things, if you say them, they could be consequence.
Like, I know every time I say something, something I'm trying to teach my kids, something if I've had to learn the hard way is like, you say stuff, sometimes people get offended and there's going to be a backlash. So you're correct in that civil rights are a little wobbly in certain respects, right? And but there's also people there's there's a huge incentive to grievance.
there's an incentive the incentive to being in a conversation used to be somebody make a joke you'd laugh the incentive was to like be agreeable and be open to join yeah in some way and now the incentive is to take offense and to be like ah this is a chance for me to get all my picket signs out yeah and represent for my my invisible constituents. I agree.
But I think we're also in a time for a lot of people where they feel there's a lot to be aggrieved about. I agree.
So we just have to acknowledge that people are constantly offended because the world is very offensive. The issue I have with it is the getting offended.
It is you on the other side of getting offended. And, okay, I say this from the, let's take comedy out of it for a moment.
I think of language. So I speak many languages, as you know, Neil Brennan.
And one of the things I love about speaking multiple languages is the fact that you learn how offensive the same thing is in another culture, in another language. you didn't change anything.
You moved your hand in a different way. You did a thumbs up in one country and they're like, what did you say about my father? And you're like, wait, what? You put your hand under your chin in one country and they're like, what are you saying about my family? But Trevor, don't you adjust? No, no, no.
You adjust in different contexts, right? But that's because I've moved to places, right? We are no longer moving. So we now live in a world- So there's nine different languages.
That's what I mean. So we're no longer moving.
Before it made sense, I go to Dubai. When I'm in Dubai, I acknowledge I'm in the United Arab Emirates.
I will respect the cultures and the laws accordingly. When I go to South Africa, I know my people.
I will respect my people and I will work accordingly. I do this everywhere in the world, but now I'm not going anywhere.
You're not going anywhere. You're not going anywhere.
You're at home tweeting your friend, TikToking your people. You're not going anywhere.
And then it takes you where the people don't agree with you, but you didn't go there. That's what I'm trying to say.
And so the problem with offense is that everything is offensive to everyone if there is no context. So you can literally say something,

you could say to your own grandparent,

you'd be like, how old are you, granny?

And they'd be like, 93.

They're like, whoop, it's almost time.

And your grandparent laughs, ha ha ha.

You take that video,

you put it on your own social media page.

For you and your few fans and your people,

you might have 20 followers.

For some reason, it sparks something. All of a sudden sudden there's a delusion of people coming to you saying how dare you do you know what ageism does to our culture you're discarding i don't care that they laugh they probably laugh because they scared of you and you and you're like no this is my grandparent they taught me this humor i'm laughing with them for instance i've seen, and you've seen this, I've seen comedians who have disabilities, deaf, blind,

they have MS, cerebral palsy, whatever it is.

They make a joke online.

People don't know that they have that disability,

and they just come off them.

How could you?

How dare you, piece of trash?

And then their fans come in and go like, excuse me,

they have the disability.

And the people are like, oh, I didn't know.

Oh, well, that's so funny. And I'm like, what just changed? Nothing has changed.
Your context and the way you saw the thing changed. And so I do agree with you.
Yes, words of consequences. Yes.
But I think we should never take for granted our participation in some of these ideas where we are choosing to get angry on some of it. We are choosing to take it like and make it like, ah, personally, I do this in my life with my friends, with my people.
I encourage people to just, it's almost like filtering, focus on the things that you should actually be angry about because there's a lot of things that actually it's like, oh, you just, you just misinterpreted it. It's, it's, you, you really just misinterpreted it.
It's a different perspective, different language, different culture, different vibe, different story. And it actually doesn't spoil your life.
We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. This episode is brought to you by Amazon.
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Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful. I don't know what the solution to this is, but I still go back to my belief that the solution doesn't lie in people siloing themselves.
I believe as Trevor, this person has no incentive and will never even shift a little bit if I'm not in their life. And I will never see their perspective if I'm not in their life.
Trevor, you have that Kumbaya Mandela stuff. But it's not Kumbaya for me.
Get out of here. No, but it's something.
You jive turkey. No, no.
I'm saying, okay, Trevor hired me because I was on Twitter talking shit about The Daily Show.

That's how we met.

That's the type of person.

That's not why.

You see, the why was wrong.

Wait, no, but you came across my tweets.

You were like, oh, this person really disagrees with what I'm doing on The Daily Show.

He found me interesting, my mind.

But that's the why.

I'm complimenting you.

He's the type of guy that we like see those tweets

you know you know i'm gonna hire that bitch that is trevor like he just is that's a direct quote but it's like even the way he has his right and look at where we are now yeah it's something you you were part of helping me win an emmy you were part of helping make the show the best thing it's ever been i'm like i don't know how you hold that it's something i really admire as someone who can be very tribal. Actually, politically, my friends are all over the map.
Have you changed in any way? She definitely has. I've changed my opinion about lots of stuff.
No, he is influenced. Do I completely disregard that version of myself? So can I just say something about both of you real quick? As your friend, both of you, I've seen both of you change because of me.
and both of you have changed me because you're in my life. So, Christiana, I've watched you become funnier and looser as a person in the time that I've known you.
Like, I've literally watched you. So, I like what you said, but like, with the Twitter thing, yes, you were trash-talking me and trash-talking The Daily Show and everything.
But more importantly, I saw somebody who was super smart, really into- Like the way you saw the world and the way you understood ideas and what you brought in and your journalistic brain. I was like, damn, this is amazing.
I wasn't hiring people on Twitter who were just like, Trevor Noah, you suck. Go back to your country.
I wasn't like, yeah, this person needs to come to the Daily Show. It's not about that.
I'm able to look- They already work there. Go ahead.
I'm able to look at the thing that lies beneath how you respond to me. No, I admire it.
I admire it. So when I look at the two of you, you've become funnier, more chill, more everything.
Right, Neil, let me tell you something. When I met Neil Brennan, so I'll take you on a little journey.
When I met Neil Brennan for the very first time, I was on Twitter. And this was the good old days of Twitter where people were just making jokes.
There was nothing serious on it. It was just jokes.
Before Christina came and made it on the final. Go ahead.
And there was just jokes. And I remember Neil had really funny jokes on Twitter.
And I was like, this guy's funny. And I followed him.
And then it said, co-creator of Chappelle Show show. And I was like, wait, what? And I went in and I hadn't even like watched the Chappelle's show in that way.
I never had cable. I couldn't afford it.
All these things, sob story, whatever. You know, copper roof.
Yeah. You know how it is.
You know how it is. Yeah.
Tough life. Let's keep it moving.
But I then went and I watched the show and then I saw the first sketch, the black white supremacist. And then you're in the back there and your head explodes.
But then I started researching. I was like, damn, this guy's funny and he's just been in everything that I love.
So I follow him on Twitter. And now I just love his jokes.
And then I come to America for the first time doing random shows. And I meet him at the comedy store in los angeles and i'm walking through the corridors there very dark very like sad satanic energy it really is and and i walked in and i saw his face and i was like wait a minute i was like neil brennan and he i was like i know you he's like doesn't everyone from another country yeah it was very like it was very like i was like wow cigarette and and i was like what and i was like i was like yeah hey nice to meet you i was like i love you i follow you on twitter blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and neil was like very dismissive neil was like ah okay whatever man and and like just very like you know leaning against the wall like like it's almost like a scene from greece but without the leather jacket just like leaning on the wall and it's like whatever kid keep it moving and i walk i walked in i went to do my sets or something and then when i was walking out neil goes like hey wait a minute where you from get back here he's like where you from and i was like i'm from south africa and he's like are you the guy he's like you followed me i was like yeah i follow you he's like you're the reason i've got people what did you say you said you're the reason i've got people with exclamation marks in their names following me that's what neil said neil was like one day yeah you said like one day i was on my twitter clicks and it was just like brad and jenny following me yeah and then the next day it was like and i was like yeah terrifying.
Terrifying. And I was like, that's my friend, I told him about your tweets.
And, and that's how we meet. Yeah.
Neil was like, and you, I hope you don't mind me saying, but like Neil was, I mean, you were grumpy. You were just like, the world is like, everything is bad.
Energetically dark. Always just like, everything is shit.
are you talking no religion and just like and why are you smiling he used to hate that i smiled he's like are you serious neil neil would even say to me sometimes like what are you so happy about i don't think i said he said i i may have energetically said he said no he said it he said he said what are you so happy about in fact in fact he has a fun story. Neil, and I've told the story before somewhere, I'm sure, but maybe with you.

But Neil, I remember you and I were sitting in a random, it wasn't even a diner.

I don't know what it was.

It was a diner.

It was a diner in Denver.

Neil was doing the improv, I think.

I was doing the comedy work.

Okay, the comedy work.

So we're having a late, late, late dinner after this.

Like, you know, midnight type thing. We've both done our shows.
And then classic Neil with his cynicism, you know. Neil's like, how was your weekend? Did you make enough money to barely pay for your flights and your food? You idiot.
You African fool. Yeah.
And I was like, yeah. Because we made no money.
Yeah. Basically, as a comedian, you were lucky if you came home with a little money from the road.
Yeah. You were just breaking even.
That's barely, barely, barely. This is 12 years ago.
This isn't like forever. Yeah, this is 12 years ago.
And at some point, Neil turns to me and he goes, what are you doing here? Yeah. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, man, he's like, I've seen your life in South Africa.
He's like, why are you doing this? He's like, go home. People love you.
You told him to go back to Africa. Yeah, he told me to go back to where I came from.
And he's like, people love you there. And you're doing arenas.
He's like, here, you're in a comedy club where people came in for free. And they don't know you.
They don't even like you. And he's like, why? He's like, America.
He's like, America's not ready for. don't like foreign yes comedians yeah you were like americans don't like foreign comedians and then we went through a list and he wasn't wrong he's like ricky gervais the only one who made an and they made a show but they made americans yeah yeah and then and then neil said this to me and we we had this discussion back and forth for a while back and forth for a while.
And I was like, oh, and I took it in a good way.

I was like, you know what, Neil?

He's like, thank you.

What, like, wonderful.

You're such a good friend.

He's like, I don't even know if I'm your friend.

We're just in the same city.

But I always, and I've always seen this, you know,

I've always said that.

I was always like, what a sweet, loving guy.

I was like, this is a sweet, loving human being who has been hurt

by something and someone in the world.

And now he wears, like, a little shell on the outside. So you saw him.
Yeah, the same way I see you. The same way I see everyone, genuinely.
We see past all this, Christiana, to the real you. I don't like to be seen, by the way.
So I was like, this guy's a nice. Because I think I meet people sometimes who are very nice.
And I go, this person is an asshole. And I do not want to know them as a human being.
They will burn your life down if they get the chance. And then I meet people who are prickly.
And I'm like, you, you're a good person. You know? I'd also like to say that once John Oliver made it, I called him.
This was really funny. And said, okay, you can come back.
No joke. i stand correct yes he literally phoned me yes and i was in south africa yes i go all right you can come back because there was no it was kind of pointless yeah yeah but my point is when did he get sweeter i'm but this is what i'm saying i got sweeter over time especially in the last five years what happened what made agree? I remember telling you about therapy, and you were like,

meh, meh.

You didn't tell me about therapy.

No, I remember talking to you about therapy,

and you were like, meh, meh.

Did you get to therapy?

I've been going to therapy since I was 23.

Yeah, but now you went into like-

But once Trevor told me about it.

No, you know what I mean.

You opened your heart, Neil.

I opened my heart from ayahuasca and DMT and MDMA.

I'm sorry.

I don't know how- Who did you tell about religion? Who did you did you call when you said like i now believe there might be a god you were one of the first people i believe i called really yeah um so because i knew he'd like it but you know what trevor back to you because trevor doesn't like to speak about himself he even cared that i would like i remember what people are into i was like who are my god which is a nice that's what i mean that's what and i genuinely yeah i never was a jerk i seemed i seemed jerky that's my point was kind that's my point but trevor the thing about you because you don't like talking about yourself but i want to make it about you that i find remarkable and i'm still learning is that you you're and i think it shows in your fans in your life you're able to have like this big tent where loads of different people can come in and you never feel uncomfortable. Like you could just live in difference and tension.
And maybe that's because of your childhood. Yeah, it's because of my childhood.
But in a way that I'm still not there yet. Oh, yeah.
But you were lucky you grew up like, first of all, you're Nigerian. So you've always had like your people.
Yeah. And then also like your family.
your i've grown up as a singular you know i mean i was i was and still am the only person in my family who even looks like me obviously you can find features in my parents you'd be oh i see but no my mother's a different color to me my father's a different color to me we look we are different people and in the family i'm a different person and you get what i'm saying so does that make you feel like lonely or you just no it it was the opposite funny enough it didn't it didn't make me feel lonely because i don't spend all the time looking at myself which is great it's interesting that you say like you or maybe you said it like that you because of that you are like kind of tribalist in terms of nobody looks like you. Yeah, no.
So the whole, everyone's your tribe. You could take it as a prescription to be lonely.
Yeah. Or you take it as like, oh, all right, well, I guess I'm everybody.
Yeah, no, I was always just like, you know, because it was the only way I was. And I think most importantly, my tight nucleus treated me as the in.
So it's not like my cousins treated me strange. Not my grandmother, my mother, nobody in my circle.
I was Trevor, fully, fully just Trevor. And then because I understand other people's languages, I would find a way to get in quickly.
And then my friends very quickly, I mean, till this day, you all know my friends, but they just treat me like me. So I don't even look down and be like, my skin is different to this.
No, I don't do that. And so let me ask you this.
Why do you think, I'd love to know, why do you think as Neil, you were always more comfortable and more honest in black spaces than most white people? I never, I just never racist i love that you say that no because everybody's racist just like it's just a matter of degree so i've just never been that racist i had access because one of my brothers worked at the wrigley field and all of his co-workers were black they were always so nice to me eddie Eddie, Michael Jordan, Spike Lee, Arsenio. Right.
I mean, this is like a creepy story. I'm like nine, right? Nine years old.
I used to have to, Eddie's on Saturday Night Live. I used to have to run, my parents would get home.
I used to have to run upstairs to hide that I wasn't watching it, right? Because they'd get home and I'm nine, I'm supposed to go to bed. At a certain point, I say to my mom, hey, you need to let me watch Saturday Night Live.
It's important. I remember being nine and going, what are you talking about? It's important.
Again, it's not even like, I'm so saintly. It's just like, it's stupid.
It's just like. It's illogical.
It's illogical. It's like, you and I immediately like, I was like, oh, I think I know what you're like.
I don't care about, I don't care about your anything. It's like, I know what you're like.
You're fucking, you're a very opinionated person. Like, okay, I'll see you at the next argument.
Like, there's no... So it's just...
I don't know. I just never really bought that into it in terms of...
Like a social construction. You just were like, this is the person.
Yeah, I don't know. It's also just access.
Most of sexism, racism, it's just all these separations that we deal with. It's like if if what would I if I was in your experience, what what conclusions would I come to? If I was in yours, what conclusions would I come to? If I it's like I under it's assuming that people are coming to conclusions for a lot.
The same logic to conclusions about. And not...
If I were black, I'd be... I'm mad as a white person.
So imagine what I'd be like as a white person. And if I was a white man, I'd be so fucking rich.
You can imagine. I'd be like...
I say to my husband all the time, man, if they made me look like one of your friends, I'd be kidding it right now. Yeah, so like...
I'm sensing a movie here, guys. But he wanted to be a black woman.
She wanted to be a white man. Someone dropped one of these lights on our heads.
They met at a podcast. Yeah, so I think it's just theory of mind.
It's like, what would it... I don't know.
It's just assuming that someone's going to think the same things you would think but if you were in that situation so you see i come back to what i was saying now about sharing space with people i listen to your story and just listening to what you said because of your brother you went to a place where all of his co-workers were black at wrigley field you're now associating and seeing black people in their fullness, in their completeness. It is a lot harder to be racist to black people when you know black persons.
It's a lot harder. Because you're like, no, I know Dave, and I know Steve, and I know Daquan, and I know people.
I know some are like this. I know some are not like this.
Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. You, now you're also in comedy.
Then you're in Chappelle's show. Again now, you're experiencing black people from all different walks of life.
Everyone from Most Deaf and Tali. I also think it's good personal experiences.
Meaning Dave was, I don't know, we just got along. We were close at the same age, 18, 19.
He was nice. He gave me an opportunity to write Half-Bake with him.
A lot of this is like, I feel it is like recompense for the opportunities that I've been given by Dave specifically. And then I give black people all credit for that.
A bunch of meaning like, okay, I'll try to hire as many black people as I can.

Cause I can't, cause why a person hired me. Yeah.
I kind of have to, I morally, I have to, if I believe in any sort of moral framework, I have to try to not be that racist. When you became more spiritual

I'd love to know

Like you and I

Many years ago

On the Daily Show

We talked about depression and how it affects people differently and this is before i knew i had adhd and then i was like oh mine's not like depression it's just a byproduct of adhd at times i want to know from you what do you think some of the biggest blocks were to you figuring it out? You know, in one special, you're joking about wearing a device on your arm that electrocutes you to remind you to smile and seem more affable. Yeah.
This is a real thing. Yes.
And then it zaps me and I smile. Yeah.
That's the cover art on Netflix is me fake smiling

because you've been zapped.

From being zapped.

Yeah, but then now

you smile more as a person.

You just generally...

Yeah.

What do you think was the...

And it's not the...

Let's start with the thing that you did,

but tell me what you discovered

that shifted you out from under the cloud.

It's the...

I mean, it's very dangerous. Ayahuasca,o dmt and then mdma it's i wouldn't recommend it because it's like it the 5 meo dmt i like kind of lost my mind for a couple days uh but i those in in sequentially that's how i did them and they worked for me.
Did you do it under guidance? No. I mean, yeah, there's like a person there.
But like they don't, they're not, there's like, there are tribes on the Amazon who have a lot of experience and hundreds and thousands of years of sort of how to deal with certain things. And then there's people that I dealt with that they mean well.
Neil, I'm curious, right? Because anytime I see you, you're working. I've never seen you, like, in a...
Because you don't want to hang out with black women, obviously. So, like, I've never seen you socially.
So, like... So, like, no, I'm curious.
What does your depression? Because, like, you know, there's always this image of, like, in bed. I can't work.
I don't shower. I was never.
Well, I was always trying to. I tried to work my way out of it.
Okay. So that's why you're always working.
I tried to achieve my way out of it. Okay.
Yeah. Like, if I could get an achievement, which I think we've talked about before.
You get an achievement. You get a kind get a kind of a, a adrenaline spike that you take for good feeling, or you get an ego boost, which you take for good feeling.
Um, and then you kind of just like, ah, and then it wears off. You're like, I got to do something else.
Um, and that's what they call a career. Um, so, but yeah, the, the, so I did all that stuff.
It more, it's, it's more a matter of changing my relationship to the facts of my life. Meaning I'm incredibly lucky.
I used to think I was unlucky. Yeah, you did.
I really thought I was unlucky i really thought i was like a like reason for grievance um and and then i realized like no i now i have a new idea which is like life isn't fair uh no one's life should be as good as mine like i was dead wrong about what i thought was happening even the things that i thought were negative were positive and it is like everything was your friend it's all been good and it's all uh been to my favor even if it's in the i sent you that thing the other day about uh it's a buddhist story about like yeah you never know you never know what something means chapelle show ends i'm like i never would be a comedian if it didn't end like all these things that i think were negative were positive just in a different time frame so that's the biggest takeaway is that like changing my relationship to the facts of my life. And I do a thing where I literally write the facts of my life down several times a day.
Oh, wow. Like journal it.
Yeah. But I call it a checklist to make it masculine.
Because journal. But I call it like a checklist of like the facts of my life.
Okay. Like you are this, you are this, you are this, you are this.
You've got to do this. You've got to do this.
Like this is incredible. Just enjoy yourself.
I think that's a good advice for anything. It's like I can stay mad all the time in this situation or I can take this as an opportunity for whatever you know and so for me it goes back to what we're saying about offense it lives in the same world i think in everything i'm hearing you saying the facts didn't change you know your house your car your life your job your friends your your your opportunities that didn't change.
You know, your house, your car, your life, your job, your friends, your opportunities, that didn't change. Your relation to them changed.
Your relationship to them changed. And that's what I think about, funny enough, with genuinely how we see the world a lot of the time with its, you know, things online that offend us, people that make us angry, stories.
A lot of the time, it's just your relationship to it is acknowledging the fact is it has happened or you're seeing it. But now what is my relationship to it? And just shifting that lets you off the hook from feeling like you're wearing a weighted vest.
That's what I hear you say. That shift is so hard, though.
Oh, it's incredibly hard. I think that.
But even like being a mom, I'm sure, is like really tries your patience. Yeah.
And you could occupy that space of like just being aggravated all the time, which I think a lot of parents did for a long time. Or you can just be like, man, it's, it's, I can, I'm going to feel this way and I have to figure out how to deal with it.
Yeah. I mean, I just like surrender.
Yeah. That's the, yeah.
Then my girlfriend says that all the time. She's like, it's the most Zen thing in the world.
It's just like, I have a four year old. They're going to be four.
Yeah. Until he's five.
And then they're going to be five. And then he's going to be five apparently.
Yeah. So yeah.
Which is his own. And just like the surrender and the acceptance of like, this is what it is.
I can either look at it and be, have my fist balled up all the time, or I can just be like, okay, this is, I'm here. I'm here.
I might as well enjoy it. Which is the corniest, tritest.
Which is scary. No, I know.
Because I like to strive. I love striving.
But I think life is a balance between the two. Yeah.
I think, I think if we live only in the moment, we neglect. Yeah, people that live in the moment, it should be noted, are incredibly boring to speak to.
I think it's about finding a balance. That's hard.
Holding those two ideas in contact. It's almost impossible because it's like how you look at it, how you choose to relate to it, how you move through.
And sometimes you're not choosing it actively. But that's how I understand there's Neil Brennan more now.
A bunch of stuff was falling on me. And then I just tried to make it fall on me in a different way.
I love that. Yeah.
And I'm incredibly lucky. I would argue most people hearing this are incredibly lucky in that like you probably have enough money that there's all the things, the infrastructure that is in place for you to have Spotify.
Have Spotify. Oh, oh, anyway, you get your podcast.
Fantastic. Yo, Neil, this was, um, every time I speak to you, it's a joy, but, um, this, this was, this was extra special thank you for thank you for joining us thank you Neil which if someone has to watch one of your specials now which one do you want them to watch I'd say watch Crazy Good Crazy Good it's the most recent one yeah alright it's kind of the most timely joke well for me I think of it like like Star Wars go watch the trilogy yes if you watch three mics and you watch blocks and then you watch Crazy Good you will know this neil brennan and you will see the full yeah you will see it so different in my yeah because the last time i saw you was before trevor quit the show three years i haven't met this new one it's good good vibe well you know you got that dad energy in a good way i can tell he's with a four-year-old no i can tell he's with a because you're like being with a four-year-old kind of does something to you and And you're like, yeah, I just fight with him.
I'm like, who is this Neil? I fight children. We'll save that for another episode.
Neil, thank you so much. Thank you, Neil.
Thanks for having me. Bye.
What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions.

The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan.

Our senior producer is Jess Hackl.

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Thank you so much for listening.