Fred Armisen

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movement that inspires. In my mind, you jump from one big thing to the next.

Let's just go with that.

Welcome back to Everybody Knows Your Name. Today we're going to be talking with Fred Armison.

There are people who both write and perform, but it's rare to be equally great at both, and that's what Fred Armison is. He's great at both, time and time again.

I've so enjoyed watching him over the years, from his amazing 11th season run on SNL to co-creating hilarious shows like Portlandia, Documentary Now, and Moonbase 8.

He is a multi-talented guy with a really interesting family background that you'll hear about in a minute. So let's get to it.
Here's Fred Harmason.

I'm happy to see you again. Thanks for asking me to do this.
You too. Thank you for the nicety.
You just took the time because I'm nervous, but I'll do it.

I don't know you as nervous at all.

This is you. Every time I see you in public at these events, you have really good posture and you're just friendly to everyone.
Everyone seems to know you. Oh, yeah, or everybody knows your name.

But like, there's like,

you always, you never do you seem like you have anxiety or like

to me, you seem to be saying, this is where I'm meant to be.

Nice. Yeah.
That's what it feels like. I'm going to keep that phrase in my head the next time I go in public.
Are you? an anxious person? No. No.

That's funny. Yeah.

You look like like you should be an anxious person

you're not no i

have anxiety um

with social things and and performance and stuff like that

your life my life yeah yeah i'm i kind of although i mean i'm a little bit of a loner like i do like alone time i do like uh

you know i don't really go out like i don't seek out parties and stuff like that i'm not like that social

but uh

so it's like a mix of like, I don't have anxiety, but I also like to sort of, I like a nice night at home.

I think that's why I like this so much during a podcast, because I am not the guy who would go, oh, let's go have a beer, you know? Yeah.

I will always say, that sounds fantastic. I will catch up with you and don't.

So now I have an excuse as if we sat down in the corner of some party and talked for an hour. Yep.
It is a privilege. It's pretty cool.
Yeah.

Whenever there's a,

whenever there's like a, we're going to this other thing after I'm always done. I'm like, no, this was our dinner.
This was our, yeah, I don't need a second.

I was kind of famous on cheers for saying, oh, I'll catch up. Absolutely.
Really? Sounds great. And Woody would roll his eyes because I would never, uh-huh.
Never show up. You guys like that.

Everyone from that show went, why am I retelling your career? But like,

but everyone on that show, what a strange thing that like everyone really turned out to to have

great careers. And I don't think every TV show is like that, where that's the sort of peak of it, you know, for them.
But you guys, it's like good writing.

I think if you have really, really, really good writing and it isn't just a pop fad

at the moment, you stand a better chance, at least, of going on.

Woody's gone on so much and makes so many wonderful movies that I've taken to just watching his films on my cell phone because I feel like it is my way of controlling his fame. Yeah.

So he really just eases into all these incredible movies. And yeah, he's a really good audience.
All sorts of stuff. We love you, Woody, wherever you are.

Sometimes. Sometimes.
That's the key word there. Sometimes.
Okay. So this morning with Mary, I watched Skip Gates.

Okay. Yes.
Following your finding your roots. Yeah.
And Mary and I both did it at different times. That's right.
And it is an amazing experience

because

you can hear about your, you know, somebody can tell you about your ancestors or you can read something or whatever.

But when somebody places you there with photographs and letters and documents, wasn't it for you extraordinary?

I know you can tell that story of learning something you didn't know about your heritage. But still, that moment.
I think also, by the way, we might have been on the same season.

I think so. I have like a vague recollection of like, as they were rolling out the people who are on the show,

you guys being, I think.

Following your root, finding your roots

is Skip Gates and Harvard, bless their hearts, Harvard,

you know,

smart people looking up every

documentary. If there's a paper trail for your ancestry, they will find it.
Then they create a book for you to open and read on camera, and it talks to you about your life.

And the session, you know, the show is only an hour or whatever, but like the session is like four hours of them unfolding these things in front of you.

And, you know, they do like a year's worth of research and they really research. And I asked them, I was like, how do you guys do it? How

it can't just be, you know, internet sleuthing.

And one of the keys, they said, was church records that religious organizations keep good records on.

But it was incredible. Real estate, any kind of speed,

and school records is how they figured out that my grandfather wasn't Japanese. He is Korean.
And this was total news to you. Total news to you.
I mean, I saw it on your face. Yeah.

To the point where I had gone through my life saying, hey, I'm a quarter Japanese. And I adopted some of the the personality traits of what I thought Japanese was.
Like,

I like my food this way. And, you know, I have this sense of design, which in my mind, I was like, I think it's because I'm part Japanese.
And it wasn't the case at all. And the reason

my grandfather,

I guess, faked being Japanese is that they had racism. Living in Japan.

Living in Japan, educated in Japan, but Koreans would educate their kids or rich Koreans in Japan, but there was racism against Koreans.

And it became

horrendously violent. Yep.
Yeah. Which made him

switch. Oh, yeah.
As a

sense of survival. Yeah.

I'm Japanese. This is my name.
And

you knew that he was

went on to become a famous dancer. Yeah.
He knew all about all that stuff we knew. Yeah.
Choreographer, dancer, and avant-garde dancing, which is like for the time.

i keep thinking avant-garde is invented in the 70s or 60s but it's incredible that way back then that's what he was doing in the 20s or 30s was that yeah um well he was doing it in the 40s

30s and 40s and then came here to teach at yep cal state fullerton yeah

somewhere yeah um

but then was here for a while and traveled all over he had kids all over europe including my dad and you know,

traveled all over the place. So your dad was German.
So he was raised German.

Raised German.

Knew his father, though.

Barely. Barely.
Yeah. Oh, I see.
See,

that guy was moved on. Yep.

Yeah. Gotcha.
Yeah. So he was raised by his mother, but he didn't really know his dad.
He kind of knew who he was, but didn't get to know him. So did that,

did anything change once you went, oh, wait, my history is a little different than i thought it was yeah for you

the things that changed for me were

like i said you know the set the the fake sense of being something just because you you've got it in your head that you're genetically something

but

also as far as like education and

you know,

knowing history, it didn't occur to me that there was racism against Koreans in Japan. And I know it's documented.
I know it's in history books, but like, I was like, there's so much I don't know.

I, for all I know,

I would have thought that everything was just peaceful and wonderful between the two countries.

And just that, you know, I feel like sometimes things like, like that seem so specific to like Europe and America. And I'm like, of course that happens all over the world.
So there was that.

So it was like a little bit of

an awakening of that. Also korea like i think i didn't think enough about oh i've got to like get out there and i want to travel there and get to know

have you i haven't yet no but i i want to

that's the neat thing i think what of what skip does

it history can be very dry and you go uh-huh it's intellectual or something but when you place a relative in a historical setting, all of a sudden you are

really interested in that period and what was going on. I found that's exactly

that's so well said that I wish I had said it that way. Go ahead, we can add it, we can,

but it's true, it's but it's that's exactly it. Where you read, I think you read history and it kind of goes through you.
Yeah, now, oh, I understand that was a hard time.

That sounds like a terrible, terrible war, but you're right. As soon as you, it's like part of your own history, you're like, wait, explain again what that was.

What was it about your history?

Well, I have a

family.

My nephew is

his life is about his heritage and where he came from. And he literally knew

everything that Skip Gates

and all of the researchers came up with.

I have always gone, yamma, yamma, yamma, when he's talking. I'm sorry, sorry, Eric, but I, it's not my fascination.
So I heard things through Skip viscerally and differently,

but he, he kind of knew it. So I knew a great deal about it.
But the thing that really landed, and now I'm going to blank on her name, but she was Ann

Hutchinson. Ann, very good Hutchinson.
She, you know, he did not look that up. I think he just said it.
He's fascinated by my past.

That was good, man.

That was good.

But she,

you know, Puritan early days in America, colonies, she started preaching

within her house. Women were not allowed to do anything, touch religion in any way other than, you know, yes, sir, no, sir, kind of thing.
She would teach to a small group of people

her interpretation, which was, you don't need a church or a priest. God is available.
Your relationship is with God. You don't need an intermediary.
Well, that got into a lot of trouble.

And the reason why we could trace our heritage back that far was because the governor of Massachusetts was the

served as the judge for her trial. And once you got...
Her trial, she went to September 19th. Oh, yes.
And was,

and her mistake was she started eviscerating all the people who were trying her. Rightfully so, but nevertheless, not a great idea.
But not playing the game of like.

Right. So she was

exiled to

kind of

the outskirts of civilization as we knew it back then.

In one state.

He was the governor of Massachusetts. I don't know where she ended up, but west, where there were tribes that were still very actively trying to get rid of us.
And

at some point,

a tribe that she had befriended or they befriended her said, you need to leave right now.

There is going to be an uprising and you will not be safe. And she said, oh, nonsense.
I'll be fine. And she wasn't.

So there was hubris there, but she was this remarkable woman that I kind of see in a little bit in my mother. you know, in my sister, maybe my, you know,

sense of what it's like to be a woman or my willingness to learn that I don't know what it's like to be a woman, or whatever. I feel like that kind of trickled down.

So, she is in your lineage, yeah, my mom's side. Wow, no, my father's side, forgive me.
Yeah, yeah, naturally, it's my father's side, yeah, not my mother.

Sorry, wow, they were like, Yeah, hey, something's gonna go down, you should take off. And she's, she was like, I shouldn't, I'm rambling, and it's this is your time, but

anyway, okay, but but you are on TV while

I feel bad that I diverted a lot, but I was just interested in we've had the same experience. So

I won't. I'll let Mary tell you

someday her story. But all right.

That's you, kind of. Yeah.
And you had this kind of maybe exotics the wrong word, but you were exposed to a lot of

different cultures or at least the possibility of. coming from different cultures.
Yeah. That's informed you, I'm assuming.
And then along comes drums and i i

tell me how that happens because that seems to be your was that your first oh i want to be a creative oh oh immediately and um i mean it could be my my mom's venezuelan and my dad's german but we lived in brazil for a little while and brazil is where i first saw drums they had this they have these sort of samba parades or they call them samba schools uh and i was a kid but i remember being drawn to seeing,

it's all percussion. The whole parade is percussion.

Surudos and panderas and

I, even as a kid,

was really

hypnotized by it. And then, you know, we're an American family.
We also would go to like Disneyland

on trips. And then even there, there'd be some,

you know, a little jazz combo or something. And then I would

age what?

Eight.

um

and then i'd be you know i'd see whatever a little ragtime band and the drummer i would just my eyes would always focus on that so somewhere in there i that's and you asked can i have a drum set

uh yes i remember they also bought me beatles albums uh

and i remember hearing i am the walrus and there's a drum intro to it that I rem I just was like, that is what I want to do. And I still feel that way.
That hasn't left me.

Like, I still hear drums and go, oh, that's what I want to do.

I love it. I love it.
They look great.

They sound great.

There's something about the way people look when they're playing drums that I like for the most part.

And you really are

controlling a great deal of the rest of the music that comes out of all the other instruments. I mean,

right? I mean, you are literally setting the beat. Yeah.

And at the same time, you're sort of behind the rest of the group, like you're seated.

So it's this like

distant, there's like a distant, you know, you're sort of controlling everything, but, you know, you're not the lead singer. So there's something about that that I like as well.
So it's not showy

in the same way. Right.
I guess it is showy that there's like symbols and stuff, but,

you know, it's not like, it's just like not like being at the front. Did you have

heroes or people you looked up to who were drummers? Oh, who were the heroes? Still, still. I mean, I first loved Keith Moon

and Ringo, of course. Ringo

loved Ringo.

And then from there, it went on to,

as I got older, the drummer for Devo, Alan Myers, the drummer for Blondie.

Talking Heads, all those bands, I sort of like, I started to gravitate towards that. But my first, the first drummer that I was like, oh, oh, I want to be like him was Keith Moon.

And I still look at pictures of Keith Moon and I'm like,

you know, I want to disappear into the picture. Like, what's going on there? Because he was so just theatrical and funny.
He seemed like a funny person.

How's your body as a result of being a drummer for so long? Because it does,

in some cases, take it out of you. Yeah, it affects your hearing because symbols are like right here.

And when you're in your 20s, you bang away at them so much and it doesn't occur to you or to me, wear earplugs. You're just like, what? I'm 20, you know? Yeah.

And they are such a shrill sound that they really cut into your hearing. And then now,

sometimes when I'm going to sleep, I'll hear like

a little tinnitus.

And then carrying drums around,

I think really does your back. The whole kit, you mean?

Yeah, because you have to, there's hardware for it. Yeah.
And,

you know,

in your 20s, okay, you're lifting stuff up and down the stairs, but then your 30s, still kind of doing it.

And it's just, it's one of those things that, like, I think it affects your, it doesn't make you stronger. Like, I got good at lifting cases.
It just actually makes your back resent it.

So now anything I've got to pick up, like suitcases, my back's like, we did that already. We're done.

Don't attempt it. So that's where I feel it the most is back and ears.
Ears killed me.

It really, really got me. I remember one of the first times.
Music, I have this bizarre relationship, meaning

I thoroughly enjoy it when I'm listening to it, and it can be as diverse pretty much.

And I cannot tell you a lyric because what happens to me is I immediately go into some fantasy land. I go into some place, which is great.

I mean, how wonderful for music, but I cannot tell you who played what and saying what words. And until Mary came along, now I'm starting to listen to lyrics because she's a songwriter now.
But

back then, I think one of the first drum solos that I went, oh, wait a minute, was Seal,

Little Gotta Get A Little Crazy. There's a drum thing after that, after about this third.

It just was like, whoa.

I haven't thought about that. Yeah.
That's a good one to pick. Most people pick like some classic.

But I'm like, oh, yeah, Seal. But Seal is great.
He has great intros to everything.

Wow, Seal. Now I want to go listen to that again.

Phil Collins, who's now slightly related because Mary's son is married to Phil's daughter, Lily. Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah.

So we have a drama in our family, yes. Yeah, that's your family now.

But about lyrics, I'm pretty much the same where I also go off into fantasy land and I just, you know, my imagination goes.

And the reason I notice it is because other people will tell me about how much they love a lyric. And I'm like, oh, I never even thought about what they were saying.

The only lyrics that work on me is anything that's repeated. If something's repeated over and over, then I'm like, oh, I love that.
I love Roxanne. Yeah, yeah.
Great. Keep it going.

But then otherwise,

it just kind of like,

it's almost like an instrument and I don't hear the specifics of it. Right.
And then someone has to explain it to me. You know,

I don't know why that is. Some people really hook on to it.
So now you're eight, nine, 10, and you're drumming. Yeah.

Mind my parents, you know, God bless them. God bless them because that's a tough

drum kid. That's a tough one.
It's loud. Yeah.
Where did you play? In your room? Up in my room. Yeah.
In a little suburban house.

But for the purposes of this podcast, I want to make it seem like I lived in

a mansion. We'll throw up some.

Yeah, just something like

so. We had our own recording studio.
It's not the truth, but we had multiple studios that they had built for me because I'm so ashamed. So sweet.
I'm so ashamed of being middle class.

Like, that's so humiliating. But

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So yeah, they got me drums and I kept going. I took lessons and really learned.

But you're just kind of this isolated

drummer in your room. Yeah.
When did it break out to, oh, let me be part of a group? Or oh, early on.

Like, because I had friends, you know, by luck, one friend who played guitar, another friend who played guitar, and it's this, you're, it's just, it's so funny being so young, and you don't even have ambition, you're not like, hey, we got to form a band, right?

It's just they come over with their amp, and

um, as much as it sounds like a joke, like I think our amps are from like the Sears catalog, like a Sears guitar, which weren't bad, they were fine for kids. And then we'd all get together and play.

I don't even know what we played, but it was just, we didn't have a name or anything, just all of us.

But then turning into a teenager, that's when you're like, okay, now here's another friend, and we're going to, we're going to, here's a bass player. That's when it got different.

And you see other people roughly your age actually starting to

get out in the world. Yep.
So let's do it. Let's do it.
And then there's also those friends who are like, that's not cool. This is cool.
So

you start to have like, like, like a, you, you start to have sort of like your own lane that's really strict.

So like, we're not a heavy metal band. We're this band.
And then you're, you know, I think all friends do that anyway. I'm like, that's cool.
That's not cool.

And then

other friends introducing me to new kinds of records and stuff. So

it was very exciting. I loved it.
And is funny Fred showing up yet or no? This is not.

Yes, amongst friends, like we all made each other laugh. Always a part of our lives.
Loved watching SNL, loved watching SC TV.

We were like into all the sketch shows. Fridays, I remember we watched.

And then,

but not as a career. It was just,

it was just like, let's be a band. Although a lot of the bands I liked had a sort of

comedic quality, like Devo and Talking Heads had a sort of, you know, not comedy, comedy, but something quirky and observational about it that I liked. Yeah.
And then you moved, right?

To be moved to the band?

Yeah. Well, I went to college.
Still not standing up and being funny. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, zero.
Zero, zero. Like,

went to college and then moved to Chicago. And then I was in my 20s.
And then I was in a band with the good friends. The real deal.
The real deal. That's like, now we're going to go on tour.

Now let's really try our best. And

reviews, all of the above, or just packing, was it pre-reviews?

It was just very like, we toured all the time in punk rock circles. And

it depends on how I look at it. Some days I go, oh, we didn't, not enough people came to our shows.
But then I'm like, well, we toured. We did okay.
Yeah.

So not enough to make a living, but enough that. We'd stay on the road for a while.
And we met some great people.

So that was the first sort of professional, like, okay, now this is what I'm trying to do. And then that band broke up, and I auditioned for Blue Man Group.

Blue Man Group was in Chicago, and I is this pre-New York, they're New York. Was it first? They were in New York, and then they opened a franchise, like

a version in Chicago. I auditioned for that, and then I was one of the drummers.
They had a rotating band, and then that was my first paycheck. I would say that's my first show biz paycheck was

being in and playing for Blue Man Group. And you just answered an ad.

Yep.

How funny.

I was almost, that sounded antiquated. And then I'm like, no, that is what happened.

For some reason in my head, I was like, no, it must have been something online. There was no online.
It was 1997 or something.

Or there was no, online wasn't in my life. But yeah, I answered an ad, audition.

There it was. And it changed my life.
That was like, that was my first

version of seeing that entertainment can actually be something you can be in business. And you're watching very unique

and funny

skits or whatever you call them. The performances, Blue Man Group, right?

So you're getting a dash of funny while you're the drum. When you say back.

backup drummer they would do these things where they would hit the drums the one i saw and they had liquid coming up or something and they'd send it and the lights were amazing.

Were you

backing them? When you say back up, were you?

So, yeah, in a sense, like above the stage, lit by black light would be a band, a trio, drummer, zither player, and something called

a stick, a little chapman stick. Bass-like.

Like a bass-like instrument.

And

we were above the stage playing along with the blue man. So that's what that was.

And when I say rotating, is there

different fill-in musicians per show? So I would play like two shows a week. And I remember I made $100 a show.
And $100 was like a million dollars to me. My first was $125.
It was. Right.

You couldn't believe it.

You looked at it like, I just got a paycheck. All I was used to was like restaurant.
you know, tips or whatever. To see something for playing the drums was, and like you said, the Blue Men,

you know, they're kind of avant-garde. You know, that's like experimental theater in a way, but it was still popular.
So

I learned a lot from that. I took my first $125 check, went to a bank to get a credit card.

Wait, wait. Laughed out of there.
Laughed out. You were like, so you deposited it? No, I just said I have it.
I was no longer the out-of-work actor.

I'm now a hired working actor. So kind of off-Broadway.
And I would like a credit card, please.

No. And they said no.
Oh, yes. All right.
Full disclosure. My cousin was a vice president two floors up.
This was Manufacturers Hanover Trust.

And he used to get so upset that I would show up in my out-of-work actor's clothes and he had to dress in a suit and all of that. And he'd say, please, please don't come up and visit me.

Please, please don't.

But I turned to the guy who said no credit cards

Oh, by the way, my cousin Danny is the vice president upstairs. And I got

a credit card. Yeah.
Because I was going to say, like, now I feel like credit card companies are wanting. Yes.
They really are like, yes, I need to do that. You're going to go into debt here.
Yeah.

Yeah.

But

yeah, those early checks, God. Okay.
Take me from music to await.

I'm funny.

Well,

it was a strange thing.

I was in this band. We broke up.
I was in Blue Man Group, and I felt a little,

I wasn't like the rock star I wanted to be. I was like, I set out to really,

you know, to be in a famous band. So I felt a little disappointed.
And

my wife at the time, who's from England, introduced me to like British comedy. You know, she's all these shows that we had on VHS and stuff.
And there was something about it I really like.

I know, it's such a cool thing to say, like, hey, only British, but she's from England. And

I did this thing where I just bought a video camera and I went to this music festival in 1998 and I interviewed bands as different characters.

Who knows why?

As an exercise, you know.

And something about the tape that I made made the rounds. It was like...
Did you edit it? A friend of mine edited it.

In fact, a friend of mine who I didn't know very well, just this guy was like, hey, I'll edit it. So wherever you are, thank you for doing that.
And were we analog?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

Analog, you know, videotape. Or it was like

high eight. Right.

But I made VHS copies and I sort of gave them out as a sort of, here's, you know, here's something.

Austin was the festival, but I was was living in Chicago. But so you went down.

And this festival is like bold. That costs money to go try your.
I was already going to play with other bands. I was a fill-in drummer for a couple of bands.

And they were like, you know, I was like, okay, I'll go down and play. There are some conferences and some talks that they're doing.

Why don't I go in and just sort of, you know, interview people just as a joke. And that video made the rounds.
And that video is what set me me off to doing comedy.

It's been non-stop. Who saw it that

gave you feedback?

Or did it go on? Did it?

Oh, no, no.

There was no online, but there was a gentleman named Will Tannis at Warner Brothers Records, who was a co-producer of

a music show in HBO called Reverb. And he's like, oh, you'd be perfect to do little interstitials on that.

And then it just, I got, I did that as a gig. So same kind of paycheck thing.
I was like, wow, they're paying me to do this thing. I'll do it.
And it just kept going. So were you deadpan kind of?

Yeah, yeah.

You have to figure out that this was. Yes, yes.
Me doing characters.

You didn't offend the band you were interviewing or the whoever. No, no, I pretended to be German or deaf.
You know, I just pretended to be different or blind. I remember once.

Just like, but the questions were, yeah, we're never really, from what I remember, really making fun of the band it wasn't that kind of thing it was more like I try to get their sympathy in a way right um

and

and it just is is that still to be had oh can you find it somewhere oh yeah yeah I think it's out there

Fred Armerson's Guide to Music and and South by Southwest 1998

and

From there, you know, from that HBO thing, I got, I moved to LA. I was in Chicago, and then I started doing stand-up at Largo.

And from there,

wait, Matt, there's still a difference between having a kind of funny character and doing interviews. Did you sit in a room and just start writing your stand-up?

It was more that

I wanted to do it. So I was like, oh, what can I do? I could do a character on stage.
It was more like.

And Largo was perfect because there'd be all these comedians. And I thought, where do I fit? How can I do something that's like a little different?

Because I don't have the gift of, you know, telling those kinds of jokes. So I was like, I could be a character and fool people for a little while.
And that's, that'll be part of the show.

This is around 2000. And

Bob Odenkirk was there. And I became friendly with him.
And he put me on a pilot of a sketch show he was doing called Next. And that became like a more of an official

entryway where I had

things that I could send out as, you know, clips for clips for like auditioning for SNL. So, very quickly with people's help is how I got to SNL.

So, I was doing comedy, but was it a just pure light bulb? This is it. Oh, I want to be it was, it was such a fast light bulb that I didn't even have time to observe it.

Before I knew it, that's all I was doing. I was just like saying yes to gigs.
And

I was on Bob's, I mean, Bob, really, he plucked me from Largo and put me on TV. I forget that he was stand-up.
I always think of him in these incredibly dramatic.

Oh, my God. He was like,

him and David, you know, doing Mr. Show was like, that was like the show.
That was like the sketch show to,

you know, rise up to. They were like, yeah, the centerpiece in a way.

Very.

And then come Saturday Night Live. Yep.
And then I had enough tape to send a Saturday Night Live and auditioned for them. And Marcy Klein

showed my tape to Lauren. And,

you know,

all the way through was just like

quick doors opening.

And my first

TV show that I was on was Conan O'Brien.

So we're all here. We're all here.
We're all here. Here we are.

And Paula Davis, who's in the other room,

she's the one who saw me at

a comedy festival and put me on Conan's show.

So much later.

No, no, this is during the same time. During the same time.
Oh, wow.

So that's, you know, were we on Conan the same? No, I think did was he doing

in the year da da da da da da da? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that.
Yeah, I did a couple of those. Yeah.

Felt honored. Yeah.
Yeah. It was great.
I mean, I love that show. But

yeah, Paula Davis, same thing. All these, you know, thank you, Paula Davis.
Thank you, Paula. Oh, but she knows it.
I've talked to her so much about it.

I think she's tired of me saying to her, like, you put me, she put me on TV. She really, that was my first

network, you know, and the light bulb moment, like, I really, when I was doing it, I remember thinking, oh, I love this, you know, when the cameras were on and stuff. I loved it.
I really did.

Who was there when you first arrived at Saturday Night Live?

When I first got there, I joined with Will Forte.

So we were the two

new guys,

just the two of us. So we got to experience that together.
And then

we were like low on the totem pole where the stars, as it were,

were

Maya Rudolph, Tina Faye,

Jimmy Fallon,

Chris Gattan. And I think

Chris and Tracy Morgan were just finishing. I think they were finishing.
I think Jimmy was finishing too. Yeah.

And so they made us feel very welcome, but they were like, they were sort of like on to their careers. Right.

And then as we stayed, you know, the cast changed. But, God, it was great.
I mean, those are all still friends of mine. Will.
Forte. Will Forte.
One of my favorite people. He's incredible.
Yeah.

Never thought he would get married and have children. And he is so happily married and so happily a dad.
Yeah.

But he's organized in a way that I could see him being thorough.

Well, isn't that kind of a nice way to say totally 100% compulsive? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Like people have said to me,

you know, I think he's got to shake hands with everyone before it's something he hasn't. No, there's ritual.

And I thought, that's not real. I noticed that he's, you know, but then Sure enough, I was watching.
I was like, oh, yeah, I think he does. But it's nice, though, because sometimes.
It is nice.

they're they make you feel good rituals always and when it's that attention comes my way i'm like that's great that will's like i'll i'll be i'll see you tomorrow and you know

i think he early on found out that mary has the sense of humor of a nine-year-old boy

so he would one of his rituals was to come up and fart in the morning audibly so that she could have this wonderful pretend shocked, horrified reaction. And where?

On set or on set this is while he was doing last man on earth god that was such a great show altogether you were on it playing a cannibal and yeah yeah

and you were setting up grooming my wife mary to be your next meal yep basically yeah and you were pretending to be an artist a painter pretending to be because then the art itself was terrible right

but will decided to paint yep for you the picture of mary that you were supposedly painting.

And it's horrifying. And it's in our little mini gym that we have at home hanging on the wall because we couldn't get rid of it, but we couldn't really allow it in the house.
It was so horrifying.

It looked like a potato person or something with shocking

red short hair.

So, so terrible. No, I'm so glad I got to experience that with him.
Yeah. It's great.
And then

also, I love that like he just we just pop up at each other's lives still but and bill hayer too yep who i had the pleasure of talking with here and john mulaney who we recently talked to here you guys friends are great buddies oh yeah

but we see each other frequently it's the best it's such it's a nice surprise in life you know that like

you work with people and you think oh well hopefully we'll stay in touch and then you know we really really stayed in touch it's the best that's so cool and it's you're you're you're not all the same either you're all incredibly bright and love funny and know how to do it

but you're it's all a little bit different slice it's funny that you're not yeah

now that you're saying it i was just picturing everyone's personality and you're you're you're right about that but there's got to i mean but there is that shared when someone wants to do a bit or you you know, a joke or whatever, that we're totally in line with.

Yeah. That's

never have we been like,

now's not the time to joke. Or like, well, what? It's always fine-tuned.
I know when one of them, you know, is joking and

that's the best. How did Portlandia come to be? How did that

be? Because that's full-fledged.

Write scripts. Yeah, yeah.
That's

its own thing. Writer's Room.
Did you have a writer's room? Yeah, we should have a whole deal. The whole deal.
Is that coming from your brain? Did you do this? Oh, no. It was me.

Well, in combination with other people, but it was me and Carrie Brownstein's. Carrie, who's magnificent.

Genius. Yeah.
She's like. She's so good.
She's so great. And she was, or is in a band, my favorite band, Sleater Kinney.
And we were friends.

We had some mutual friends in the 90s, but like in the early 2000s, we became friends to the point where like, well, we should work work on something and instead of doing a band we decided let's try making videos and that's what we did started making these videos in portland and that turned into the show but

um

no she thought of so many of those sketches opening number musical number yes the dream of the 90s yeah is alive in portland was that that's jonathan chreisel our director or co-creator right of that because that's what that's what it felt like in Portland.

You know, the dream of the 90s. And coming from the 90s in a way, I understand.
I feel like sometimes I feel like now, even still, I'm like, the dream of the 90s. You know?

That's funny. I'm trying to go away.

Dream of the 90s is like,

do the right thing. Come on.

Yeah. Recycle.

Yeah. You know, even though we all recycle, there's still a rush of like, come on.
And this will work. And this will work.

There's a hope. It's like, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. I'm like,

I don't know, tattoos and piercings feels very, I know they're not from the 90s, but to me, that's what it, you know,

my recollection of the 90s is a lot of bands had stickers. I don't think bands do stickers as much anymore, but you'd see it everywhere, just band stickers in the bathroom and bumpers.
Bumpers and,

you know, toll booths. You'd see a band sticker.

That to me is the most 90s thing is stickers, stickers, in my opinion. Trying to think what I was doing.
Clearly, it didn't stick.

Cheers was over, and I was making my way and discovering that not every time you do something, it turns out to be cheers.

You can have to slog your way through. But what's funny is when I think of your career, please do.

I always think you're just one of those guys where it always works out. Like you just, you just like, in my mind, you jump from one big thing to the next.

Let's, let's just go with that.

I can't help it. It's just like, yeah, to dance, and you know, just this and then that, and then this, and then that, and then billboard.
And, you know, I mean, it doesn't.

I'm not that talented, but I'm really nice. I'm a really nice guy to have around me.
Really?

And really nice goes a long way. I just, for you, you know, budding actors, just be nice.

I remember you on talk shows

in the 80s and the 90s. I remember you on talk shows and you always seemed nice.
Yeah, see? Always seem nice.

You were a really good talk show guest. I'm nice.
Yeah, you're nice. Don't be afraid of bland.
Never. Bland and nice just gets you

everywhere.

We should all wish for that.

Well, although your character on cheers, I don't think that wasn't bland. I'm not.

By the way, this false humility thing I do. No, I know, I know.
It's because I know I'm magnificent. Yes, yes, I'm magnificent.
Yes. Yes.
And very different from all your characters.

This person, I think you even have a different accent. When I'm talking to you now, I'm like, oh, he speaks this person.

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Are you good at memorizing lines?

Well, that's that's yes, I am. I am good at it.
It's just a smidge more the older I get. And for some reason, this is just mean.

Cheers was Sam Malone was the slow, dumb joke. Now the older I get, it's the speedy, long paragraph joke, and that's not right.
No. No.

Do you ever get tripped up on one word over and over? You're like, why is that word not settling into my head? I'll never understand

the dynamics of why that happens.

It's a little bit self-fulfilling, too, because

I will say, oh, this is my hard scene. And lo and behold, that's the hard scene.
It's the hard scene because I said so. Yeah.

Guaranteed. Yeah.
Oh, this is a tough one. Not that many lines, but this is a tough one.
And that line is going to be hard. And boom, that's the one that's hard.

This must have happened to you all at Saturday Night Live where all week long on cheers, we would rehearse, and there was something that we could barely get through. We would be rolling on the ground.

It was so funny. Audience comes, here comes the moment, and you could hear a pin drop.

And it's like, instead of being horrified, it's the funniest thing because your body is all of a sudden plummeting to earth. You feel it in your stomach.

You're like, oh, no one thought that this was funny. There were times where a moment like that would happen.
total death, total silence. And then we would blame the audience a little.
Oh, well,

or the mics. Yeah, the mics.

You know, must be the audience is off or something like that. And then later during SNL, there'd be a sketch that kills.
So

they were fine. They were present.
Yeah. It was just that sketch that they were not interested in.
It's pretty wild. Do you know Jimmy Burroughs?

Ever been, he directed all of the cheers and friends and, you know,

but he was our director. And one time a joke died And he turned and looked to the audience and said, Can you hear it? Are the mics on? And they went, No, no.
And we turned it on. The joke killed.

And it was a week later that I decided to go, wait a minute, can you hear us? Yeah, we can. That's the only literal time that

it was that the mics were off that they couldn't hear.

When he called it, when I called it, it was, oh, no, we hear you loud and clear.

We're fine.

Wow.

God, you guys had, that's right. You had an audience every single time.
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Mostly I, I, I have to work on lines a little bit. It takes me a couple nights to really get it down.
Me too. Yeah.
Me too. But that's, I guess that's the job.
Yep, yep. Yeah.

And do what you have to do. Yeah.

Okay.

Now you have a baby. Yeah.
A two-year-old, three-year-old? Three-year-old. Three-year-old.

What is that like, Mr. Tour with your band anytime you feel like it? It's pretty great.
Yeah.

It's, it really uh makes you relaxed about time yeah so like yesterday i had a moment where uh i had a good hour of of like really having to occupy his time

and it was the best because what i had to do the things that i had on my docket didn't matter and they they kind of don't

they'll just be sitting there anyway so it's almost like time stands still for a moment and it's all about him goofing around and it's the best it's actually relaxing and actually everything is just like

just like okay is he having a good time right now he's laughing he's enjoying himself we're good it's the best yeah and it's the best

seeing him figure out new jokes new ways of doing jokes because he knows you like to laugh because

some things will make him laugh so if i make this thing talk yes

i mean to us and oh they're gonna laugh really hard i

because

thank you very much thank you you have to follow through now please damn it make a talk but i'm saying so if you make something talk um you know whatever voice you do so that kind of we paid our money damn it

i gotta make the lid open oh we could i guess we could do some

CGI or AI to make the mouth open. Yes, because unlimited budget.
Yeah, if you don't mind, just so when I did this before, just add a little.

But so that concept,

he laughed at it, but today I saw him do, he did it for the first time. So that, like, him transferring, you know, that is the best.
It's great. It's great.
And he's getting the gift of funny. Yeah.

You're giving him funny. Yeah, that is a gift.

It's also a good time occupier, you know, to joke around there will be a time well maybe not for you because you're a professional i watch some of my stick

uh it does not travel well past

six

oh i bet you're right and then they start to go they're sweet and you'll get a chortle and eyes darting for you know someone else in the room to go talk to but it's different i've heard this and i've heard worse yeah

Meaning, like

eyes rolling. Yeah.

A friend of mine described walking into a room and his kids are teenagers. Oh.

And he said him walking into the room made his son make a face. He didn't do anything.
And his son made a face. He was like, oh my God, all I did was enter.
Yes.

We had that experience with our grand, one of our grandkids recently.

We come to visit at school with our arms arms open wide. And it was the worst thing that had ever happened to her, ever.
It's shocking. But I'm going to be now I'm prepared.

You're going to bring food or candy?

How are you prepared? I'm going to come in disguise.

So I'm going to show up at the school totally as like some other

creature. And that'll be, you know, I'm saying completely disguised like

they do in Disneyland or whatever. If you had, let's pretend you do, and you do anyway, have a mission,

a goal in life that's bigger than just yourself, but

if you had a North Star that kind of guides you and you go, oops, or ah, I'm on track. Oh, you mean something that's bigger than career? Yep.

Or something you do with, you want to accomplish with your career

for the good of or for other people.

All I really do, whenever something like that comes up, I think of people I admire. So I think, okay,

David Byrne is still making

new versions of entertainment. And

I feel like Steve Martin, the way he's like mixed

music

in his life

and performing, I'm like, that's a good way to go. I just look to what those people, and I know this sounds very

career-centric, but I also mean it as far as far as like making things. I love making things

um so that's kind of like

that's like a a basic north star is becoming more and more like people

like my heroes who are still my heroes

um

because of the work they do yes and the way that they approach it right

which it seems something about it uh seems to come from a place of like i want to keep making things creative and it is it is for other people

um

I want to do that I don't see you're you're you have a different

niche niche you do you are a producer writer director you can quibble over if you want but you're a producer writer you are self-starting you can sit in a room and go I'm going to create this and

out comes a film or a TV show or

something

and

hopefully

knock on a a microphone.

Yeah. So mine is much more what I can do with other people's work.

Oh. Do you know what I mean?

Meaning I'm an actor, actor, actor, personality. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So I depend on really good writing or somebody who...
And what I'm discovering recently, do you know Mike Shur? Of course, yeah.

Right, Saturday Night Live. Right.

I find him very purposeful. Yes.
In what he puts out into the world.

And

he wants it to make it a better place.

Yes. You know, or a thoughtful place.
Or let's have a conversation about

what I just did with him, a man on the inside. Let's have a conversation about an uncomfortable topic, aging, death, grief, memory loss.
Let's have it and

be able to laugh and be honest and real. I love that sense of purpose.
So that's what what I want to kind of hitch

my wagon to, that purposeful. You mean his purposefulness? Yes, because I'm not writing it.
I like to be around people. And it can be silly.
It can be stupid. It can be whatever.

It doesn't have to be this serious woo-woo thing. But I want it to be purposeful.
I want it to make some sort of

difference, no matter how modest. His specifically has a real theme to it.

His book, his recent book, was it How to Be Perfect? What was it called?

Then we might have to look that up.

But his book is all about that.

I wrote the Ford, but I didn't read it. Okay.
It's great.

How to Be Perfect. He's not just like, hey, I'm going to write comedy and, you know, hope that it's all a hit.
He's more like, he has a theme.

And

yeah, I love that. Would you rather work for yourself in your writing than someone else's or do you care? I like both.
Yeah. Both is great.
Because when it's someone else, then it really like,

it expands how you think of things. That's what I like about it.

I love, I'm interrupting. Hold on.
Pardon me. No, but I'm going to interrupt.
No, no.

I have final edit. I don't, actually.
They do.

I look at you. First off, you're a really good actor.
I've seen you really good acting.

You're always, whether you're being funny or or not, you're a really good actor. I would love to see you, and this is sounding old and everything, but I would love to see you do Leading Man

because

you're so interesting and we're used to you being silly or making us laugh or doing characters. Do you ever think about, yeah, I should write something for myself or be part of something that is

well, that's very nice of you to say. Whatever.
Or do you have no,

if it's not funny, you don't have a desire? No, it's not that. It's that, like, I,

whenever I've put myself in something, I always picture it alongside other people, or, but not,

not dead center, but you know, featured enough. You can be dead center and still be part of.

Yeah, I guess.

I mean, I always used to think I was the tall guy in cheers

because the stories went every direction and everybody was brilliant. Yeah.

Everybody was.

I laughed just now because I just thought of just the idea of cheers. I remember like watching it and laughing.
So,

you know, I've thought about it a little bit, but

there's one idea that I had that I pitched to Tina, and that's Tina Faye that she liked. So somewhere in there, that might work.

But it's almost like, it's almost like being pretend, having pretend humility.

Where

that's my bailiwig. Can I be in it? Yeah, yes.

Of course. You're too busy.
But yes. But it's almost like, oh, I don't know.
I don't know. But then I think when I sit down and start writing stuff, like, yeah, of course, it's fun to be in stuff.

But I do like being alongside other people. Me too.
I love ensemble. I wanted to be a basketball player and it was all about teams.
Yeah, it's the best. I love team.
Love it.

Portlandia with you know with Carrie and SNL with all those people. I love it.
Portlandia was hysterical. No, thanks.
Yeah. Thank you.
I loved it. Yeah.
Love getting to do it.

We had eight seasons.

You got something else coming up? The second season of Wednesday is coming out soon.

I love that. Yeah.

Oh, I forgot. Sorry, I should have mentioned that.
No, no, it's fine. No, it's great.
I think over the next couple of months, we're going to start. I'm doing some more press stuff for it.

So I'm like, oh, I may as well. You've shot it? Oh, yeah.
Where? Where did you shot it? Ireland. Oh, my God.
But how wonderful. Yeah, it's perfect, right?

What a life. Like, to get a moody, magical place.
Ah, fantastic. I loved it.
And yeah, it was in Ireland and it's all ready to go. I don't know the exact date of it.
Yeah. I think they purposefully

don't tell me

this year. On what Netflix?

Netflix. God bless Netflix.
God bless them.

Thank you, man. I really love the tradition of comedy that you come from, and you're so good at it.

I appreciate it.

And I feel the same about you.

I am a natural sycophant kiss ass, but I actually do mean this.

I don't think you're not. And I do mean this.

I could tell when people are. I don't think that's what you are.

Yeah. I think that in my experience, this version of Ted that you're getting, I think that's, this is like the same experience I have when I see you out in the world.
So

FYI,

that's the real thing. Much, much respect.
Thanks.

Fred Armison, everyone. That's it for our show this week.
Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to someone you love.

Find us on YouTube where you can watch full-length episodes.

As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and a review on Apple Podcasts if you have a second and if you're in the mood.

More for you next time where everybody knows your name.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Liao.

Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer.
Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez.

Research by Alyssa Grahl. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Jane Batista.
Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.

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