Episode 1642 - Bridget Everett

Look, you heard me say it before.

I don't know how much time I have left.

There are a lot of things that pass me by, especially when it comes to books, and I worry about having enough time to get to them.

But another thing I always say is there's no late to the party anymore.

And the Foxed Page is a great way to get back in the loop of great literature.

The Foxted Page is a podcast and YouTube channel that dives deep into the best books.

It's basically your favorite college English class, but very relaxed and way more fun.

No exams, no participation, and only books you really want to read.

Your host is Kimberly Ford, a best-selling author, a one-time professor, and PhD in literature.

She offers up entertaining, often funny lectures that will leave you feeling inspired and a little bit smarter.

in a nice literary way.

She digs into everything from J.D.

Salinger to Yellowface, from Stephen King to Madam Bovary, from Pride and Prejudice to Trust.

Want to get the most out of what you read?

The Foxt page is for you.

Visit thefoxtpage.com or find it on YouTube and all podcast platforms.

Lock the gate!

All right, let's do this.

How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies?

What the fuck, Nicks?

What's happening?

I'm Mark Marin.

This is my podcast.

Welcome to it.

How are you?

What's going on?

You know what?

What is going on?

I have been immersed.

I have been immersed for what seems to be a year and a half.

I have been immersed in heading towards this special taping.

I've got no more dates to announce.

I've got nothing.

I've got nothing but this and you and some promotions to do.

You know, for a lot of things.

I've got things happening, but I mean, what am I going to do comedically?

I just did it.

I did it and it went well.

You know, I could be a little self-conscious and a little diminishing and a little

dismissive of myself, but I think it went very well.

It's weird.

It almost happens in a dream.

I'll try to tell you about it.

I will try to tell you about it.

Today on the show, I talked to Bridget Everett.

She's the star and executive producer of the HBO series Somebody Somewhere.

She got her start in the New York cabaret scene.

And I'll be honest with you, when I got the opportunity to interview Bridget, I didn't really know her.

I didn't know the show, but I knew she was a thing.

I knew the show was a thing for some people.

So I was like, okay, sure.

You know, Brendan told me she got started in, you know, cabaret.

And I was like, all right, well, that's close to comedy.

Fine.

And then I started watching the show, Somebody Somewhere.

And what a great show.

What a great show.

You look, I I don't know if it's for everybody.

I'm not even sure why it's for me.

But I started watching it and I was locked in.

I loved her.

I loved her character.

I loved the comedy of it.

I loved the other characters.

I was crying.

I was laughing.

I was invested emotionally.

I watched it like non-stop all the way through all three seasons.

She just got me, man.

I mean, I just couldn't

pull away from it.

I just thought it was so beautiful and human and interesting and, you know, eclectic and diverse.

And

there's something about her character that I obviously identified with emotionally.

And man, did we have a conversation?

I can't explain it.

Sometimes I just feel so connected to somebody's character, but she's a lot like the character.

It's basically her.

But, you know, we got into some other stuff.

But I was just so surprised and excited to be so emotionally torn up and entertained by that show.

It's a big talk, and it was really great for me.

I think it was for her.

I think we kind of ended kind of amazed at ourselves.

So New York City, I just got back

and look, we made it through this long run,

you know, from a week ago Friday through, you know, Toronto and Vermont, Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

That show went great.

And then like I drove down, we had a rented car.

me and Kathy Ladman, who was opening for me.

She did great on the special and on all the shows.

We drove down from Portsmouth to Boston, food, and New York.

We made it.

I didn't lose anything else.

I got home.

My computer was back, which was nice.

And my cats hadn't shit anywhere.

And there was limited cat drama.

I don't know how it worked out.

You know, the woman who watches my cats, she bought them a bunch of toys.

She exhausted them every night.

She was giving them the Zilken or Charlie and some probiotic calming stuff.

It seems like him and Buster are kind of at it again, but no shit.

I mean, no shit,

which was really nice to come home to.

Now I got to, you know, wait for three days for them all to calm the fuck down and realize I'm back in charge.

I've got it.

I'm the king.

I'm the alpha of you three little fucks.

Sammy, I'm not even sure Sammy knows me.

So

I got to tell you, man,

the special looks stunning.

All the people at the Bam Harvey were just great.

And that theater is such a special place.

I can't even explain it to you.

You'll see it on the special, but it was built in like the early, early 1900s.

And instead of renovating it, they kind of preserved it in its decay.

So it has a sort of personality that you don't see much in theaters that old because most of the time they get flipped, they get renovated.

Many places renovate them appropriately to the time or restore the stuff that was there.

But this place, the Harvey, is completely unique in that it has kind of broken down a bit.

It's almost a bit of a ruin in a way.

So they just let that be and they just kind of maintain it.

They didn't, you know, restore it per se.

They honor what it is and it's got an incredible personality.

And when I first went to the place and I saw the back wall of the theater that I believe still had paint on it from somewhere back in the 1900s, early 1900s.

And the whole back of the theater, as I might have said before, looked like a piece of art to me, like a Rothko painting or something kind of, it was chipped away.

It had different colors, different tones.

And I'm like, we're using that wall.

We're using that wall.

And my production designer, Mark,

Janowitz, it was like, he got it right away.

and he started talking to me.

I don't know if I told you guys this, but he started talking to me about, I think it's called Kensugi.

It's a Japanese art.

They take old ceramics,

bowls and pieces, vases, and they repair them meticulously using gold to bond it back together.

So it's a completely new thing.

And there was something that Mark saw in the theater where he was like, kensugi.

And I'm like, what is that?

And he says, it's this Japanese art form, you know, where they put ceramics back together with gold.

And I'm like, okay, do it.

Run with it, dude.

I love collaborating with people.

So he had this whole concept.

And I didn't know necessarily how it fit into the special, but it certainly felt it fit into the vibe of the room.

So he kind of based his vision.

for the uh for the production design around this kensugi and he created lights uh and uh little uh what are they called um

gobos maybe where you know the the kensugi patterns were sort of around and the carpet on the stage, we put a stage in and the lighting was warm and it just, it really made the Bam Harvey shine.

What a beautiful theater.

But you know, with the lights and everything, it was just stunning.

It was almost like, why ruin it with my comedy?

And so I got there on Friday.

We were taping on Saturday.

And I watched him, you know.

put a lot of the stuff up and start to get the vibe.

And then I went back over there on Saturday to do sound sound checks and feel the room and be present in it.

And it was just fucking beautiful.

The whole thing was fucking beautiful.

The set and the production design just melded perfectly with

the sort of theater, with the vibe of the theater, with the spirit of the structure.

And it was like, I was like, this is almost too good for me.

We're going beyond what anyone

is even going to read into a comedy show.

So I've been working this set for a long time.

And there's something that happens when you do a special where it's almost a, it's a hyper,

it's heightened.

It's not a regular show.

You know, I'm in a room.

Steve Feinarts, my director, had, you know, put together like nine cameras.

I've got the audience of about 700 some odd people.

And it's just heightened because everybody knows why we're there.

And I've been running this set so much.

And you get out there.

And the sad thing about shooting these specials,

it's almost an out-of-body experience because you're thinking about so many things.

I just wanted the sequence of the material to work.

And I was doing two shows and I wanted it to time out properly so we didn't have to cut too much.

And I was given 70 minutes, and I've been working on this thing.

And whatever it is, a testament to whoever I am or how I work.

You know, I was dealing with an hour and a half, hour and 45 minutes of material up until a couple of weeks ago.

And we shot the first, I composed some rock music with some band that I put together with my help, with help from my friend Paige Stark.

And we laid out this kind of rock riff to open the thing.

I did that with the last special too.

And then a longer version of it at the end.

So we got the music, Kathy Ladman, opened.

We got the music going.

The lights were going.

Everybody was ready.

I went out there.

And all of a sudden, it's like I'm just locked into this mode.

There's nothing comfortable about it, but it's not uncomfortable.

You're just, there's an intensity to the focus of it.

And I nailed it pretty good the first show.

But of course, I, you know, I wasn't happy.

I stumbled on this word.

I, you know, I didn't do this thing right.

This was that.

But the bottom line is I came in at 70 minutes on the fucking dot.

And that's crazy.

There's so much stuff in this special.

I couldn't believe it.

I am amazed myself.

I've got this inner clock.

But the show went good and the audience was great.

But second show, you know, I had my buddy Sam Lipsite in the dressing room.

I had Brendan in the dressing room.

Brendan McDonald.

This woman, Katie, did a great job with hair and makeup.

And, but, you know, I got notes.

I got notes from Brendan.

I got notes from Sam.

I got notes from

Steve, my director.

And I made some trims.

And the second show was kind of on fire.

I kind of fucked up the sequence and I kind of dropped a joke out.

And, you know, but you know, it's a taping.

But the sad thing is, is when I realized it and then I tried to do it again and I fucked it up again, you know, I had to stop, not stop the show.

The cameras are still running, but I had to tell the audience, like, all right, So we're gonna go back and do that You know I kind of fucked this up and then all of a sudden It's not like the fourth wall is broken But then you know something more relaxed happens and it might have helped for the rest of the set on the second show the second show is probably the one we're gonna use for the most part because it was like kind of on fire but I think a lot of it had to had to do with I kind of broke you know I broke out of the routine, which is something I do in my live shows all the time because it's all fluid.

But when you're doing one of these specials, you want to hit all your

bits and you don't want to fuck around too much.

So when natural fucking around came because I fucked it up, you know, something was lifted and then I re-locked in with a different energy.

I got to remember if I ever do a special again, or if I'm ever allowed to do one again or offered the opportunity to, I'm not the kind of guy that's going to put one up on YouTube, but I got to remember that.

And I kind of do remember that.

But there's a looseness that gets lost sometimes, but it sort of came back because

of this little fuck-up I did.

And it made me kind of go, all right.

But I hit all the material I wanted to hit.

Some of it's pretty challenging and some of it's pretty interesting.

And I just wanted to make sure that between the two shows,

we could have stuff to work with.

And I think we do.

I think it went great.

I want to thank all the people that came out to the Bam Harvey and saw the shows.

I really appreciate it.

After the second show, we had to redo the opening a bit.

And then I ended up doing just a half hour, a little bit of material I didn't do, a little bit of Q ⁇ A.

And then all of a sudden you realize, hey, buddy, you got union guys working.

We're running out of time.

And

that's the weird come down.

So I finished the show.

I'm packing up my stuff.

We got to get out of the theater.

And I was maybe downstairs getting my shit together for a half hour, 40 minutes.

My brother came with his partner and some of his stepkids.

And, you know, there was people.

But, you know, as I'm walking out through the the top of the room they'd already

kind of like broke down the stage

and then this like

this fucking sadness comes over you you know like that was it I hope we got it you know I was I worked on that thing for a year and a half or more and that was it that was what I was working towards and now like the rug for the stage is already gone the lights are already down Everything's going away.

There's a crew of people tearing it down.

And then I'm just kind of like, did I do it?

Did I, was it good?

And then I get back to the hotel and it's just this horrendous, horrendous empty sadness that happens when you finish something like that.

And all your whole life just comes screaming back at you.

It's almost like you land back in your life with all the things that were

causing you anxiety or problems or all the things you were kind of pushing aside.

Or I'm talking about me, you know, leading up to this thing, at least the last week, just to keep the focus.

And there's a sadness to it.

i feel good about it but you know just now i've got to retire this set

but again great experience great theater great crew uh great audiences i i appreciate uh all of you you hear me do you hear me all right so you know strap in this is a pretty um this is a pretty beautiful conversation and interesting but it kind of goes a place and i don't think either of us were anticipating it this is with bridget everett who I mentioned earlier.

All three seasons of Somebody Somewhere are streaming on Macs.

You can go to bridgeteverett.net to see where she'll be touring this summer.

And this is

me and Bridget meeting for the first time and talking.

I thought I smelled a dead rat.

So I was just down in the basement with that panicky.

There's something more frightening about finding a dead one

than there is about finding a living one.

It's just the worst.

Yeah.

It's horror.

It's pure horror.

I'm not good with small little fuzzy things.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you grew up in the Midwest.

Didn't you have those mice and everything all over the place?

I mean, not really.

Really?

But I just got a house upstate, in upstate New York.

Oh.

And I've had to learn about mice.

And it's been a real, it's been a challenge.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, the living ones are dead.

Both.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I got a pool, and there was one floating in it the other day.

I was like, I'm not cut out for this.

Yeah, the floating mouse.

Yeah.

And they're like, get ready for the frogs.

I'm like, I can't.

I just can't.

Yeah, frogs, toads.

Yeah.

They'll show up in the filters.

Oh, geez.

Do you have a pool here?

No.

No.

I had one when I was growing up.

Okay.

And there were frogs around.

Yeah.

And they'd kind of show up.

Yeah.

Sad business.

It is.

Are we live?

Is this live?

Are we just talking?

We're just getting warmed up.

No, we're good.

We're recording.

Okay.

So it's happening.

Okay.

You know, what will be used?

I mean, I think this is pretty good stuff.

Oh, yeah.

We're doing it.

I mean, I can tell you about all the dead things I've been finding at the house.

No, really?

What else?

No, it's mostly actually live things.

Like there's like possums.

There's the bear on the block.

There's...

Possums are kind of both like cute and horrifying at the same time.

Well, yeah, I have like

there's there's two sort of feral cats.

Actually, there's, we're down to one right now.

I know that there's another one.

I'm praying he comes back.

Yes.

But he's always got like, you know, the marks on the front.

So he's a fighter.

Yeah.

But right now, one of them, I call him Sweetie and Honey.

And right now, honey's on the loose.

But they don't live in the house?

They don't live in the house.

They're just, they came with the house when I bought the house.

They were around.

They're like, oh, by the way, there are these two cats.

I'm like, how come they were never there when I, but I grew up with cats and I love cats, but I can't let them.

Well, I mean, you don't know what you're going to do with the ferals.

You don't know how they're going to go.

Yeah, and I have a dog, you know, it's just.

Yeah.

But they're like, they're so tough.

It's kind of crazy.

In my old house,

there was a black death cat, a feral, wild as shit, couldn't hear anything.

Oh, yeah.

Lived for years.

Yeah.

And that's crazy.

How the hell was he?

Eventually they got him.

But, you know, it's like coyotes.

It's almost, oh, God, that's what I'm so afraid of because there's a pack of, what do you call them, a den, I guess?

Or is that what you call them?

There's all sorts of wildlife up there.

And I have a little Pomeranian, and it's just

I'm more worried about the cats because they're out there just you know, sort of living, but they but it also makes me feel good that they're there kind of protecting, but they do like to kill the mice and just sort of leave them.

Oh, well, yeah, well, that, but you know, they they're they're wild animals, the feral ones.

I mean, there's not a lot you can do other than feed them, yeah, and and almost touch them, yeah.

Well, they they actually let me touch them, but then I leave food out for them, and like um, I have these cameras, of course, you know, because

you have cameras, yeah.

And that's when I found out I also have a possum because he does a cleanup.

Kind of waddles around.

The one cat, like sweetie, just takes what she wants, you know, things that's like sort of just there.

Yeah, yeah.

And then the possum just comes up to me, like, fuck.

Yeah, the buffet.

Yeah.

Did you see the bear on the camera?

My neighbor sent me

the bear's back because I'm new.

So they, you know, they had the bear last year.

Were you just a little upstate somewhere?

A little upstate, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you know.

Close to the city?

90 minutes.

That's good.

Yeah.

Train, car.

Car.

I got at leased a car.

Why not?

Live the life.

I know.

But, you know, then I bought this house and then I got no job.

So, you know,

but maybe today will lead to something spectacular.

Oh, this is going to be a big day.

I got a market, Mark.

This is where it all turns around.

Yeah, okay, good.

It's so funny about

your show, Somebody Somewhere.

I didn't watch it forever.

Yeah.

A lot of people didn't.

I know.

Well, it's just the nature of finding things or what's going to connect to you, how it's going to connect to you.

I don't, I don't know that I knew anything about it.

Yeah.

And then I wanted to talk to you and I thought, like, well, you know, let's do it.

Good.

I'm glad.

And I watched all three seasons.

Oh, you did?

Like, back to back.

I couldn't stop watching it.

Really?

That makes me very happy.

Crying.

I'm just crying.

It's a great show.

Thank you.

And now

I'm like, how is no one watching this?

Like, I'm giving lip service.

I'm telling people, like, you got to watch it.

And they're like, really?

What is it?

And I'm like, I don't know.

Well, that's, that's why nobody's watching it.

But it's a very touching, funny, great story with great characters.

And so I'm doing what I can.

I appreciate it.

To spread the word.

Thank you.

But no more seasons.

That's it.

But you know, I'm not.

I'm not giving up on a movie or something at Hail Mary down the road.

Oh, yeah.

We have ideas.

I have ideas.

And I just feel like,

you know,

I feel like it was a real gift that we got to do at all.

Honestly, you know, it's such a small show, small characters, blah, blah, blah.

Aren't they small characters?

Some of them are big.

Well, yeah, that's true.

But small moments, maybe, you know,

not really like no explosion.

That's funny.

That's how they should have sold it.

Big characters, small moments.

Yeah.

But, you know, that's sort of originally like we wanted people to discover it.

Yeah.

You know, and if that is kind of the case, It is a real word-of-mouth situation.

But, you know,

it definitely has taken some time for it to get around.

But

it's the best thing that's ever happened to me.

It changed my life, my outlook.

It helped me with my grief, with my

finding a little more happiness.

So

it's been really good for me.

So I hope other people see a little of that and get something from it.

Oh, no.

It's completely uplifting and touching.

And it's like the characters feel grounded and real.

The writing's really kind of good.

It doesn't, you know, you don't fall into any traps of like, you know, like, well, this didn't couldn't happen.

Or like, you're not jumping any sharks or anything like that.

It's just a nice sort of arc to the whole thing.

And

the character changes kind of.

Slowly.

But that, you know, that's important.

But that's also like.

You know, when I watch TV and I see people like, there's a lesson at the end of the episode and people grow and change.

Like for me personally like i'm a more inch by inch kind of person and and really don't make um

growth is very slow for me well but it's not like no one really changes yeah but like in the face of tragedy or grief

that you you know it's it's all consuming you know having been having been through it myself

and you know when you're in it at the beginning there there's no way to control it and there's no way out yeah and and then as time goes on you know that what you're going to do is you're going to live with it, right?

So, in that grief, all these other parts of your being sort of come forward-you know, the hopelessness, like what's the point, and all that other stuff that's always there, but may not be fully part of you.

But just the process of moving through grief is a dramatic change

to get to a point where you're not free of it, but you can live with it.

Yeah, right, yeah.

And I think this show for me taught me how to like

face it, yeah, and

be with it.

And either was sort of a,

you know, I know you've dealt with grief.

It's everybody, sure.

Everybody does it.

It's the most common thing that people want to avoid.

Yeah.

And

in my universe, like, it's just not, I'm not my current circle of friends because they're more, you know, they're artists and they're, you know, we talk.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

But where I'm from, it wasn't like,

how are you feeling?

That's like just something that just wasn't.

Yeah.

You know,

it's, and if you get that question, it's a one or two word answer and you move by yeah exactly great good

no good yeah yeah what's for dinner you know it's just all of that but you grew up in Kansas I grew up in Kansas yeah I'm from Manhattan Kansas the place that's in the show yeah the place that's in the show we sort of we were gonna try it in or Emporia Kansas and then we visited Manhattan while we were scouting and and that was and that we're like this is where it should be because it's you know a military town and a college town and it's where I'm from and you know it and I know it so there's a comfort level there There's a comfort level.

And so is it based on you?

How did the show come into being?

Like I wasn't familiar.

Like I'm not a big cabaret guy.

Surprising.

I probably can't.

I'm in line.

Not a lot of people are.

I mean, it's a niche.

It's a niche.

Sure.

But I know about it, and I would probably enjoy it, but I tend to not really do a lot of things that I would enjoy.

Like, I know they're out there, and I know when I've experienced them, I feel, you know, moved and emotional.

It's too much.

Yeah, you're just getting there.

That's the problem with me.

It's like, all right, so how do we go to the place?

And then is there parking?

All of it.

All of it.

And then I leave early.

We got to beat the crowd.

Yeah.

So it's all about what happens on either side.

But I didn't know your background.

But yeah, let's talk about that.

So

you grew up in Manhattan, Kansas.

What were you doing there?

Regular stuff?

Like, were your parents?

No, no, no, no.

My parents were divorced.

My dad was a lawyer.

My mom was a music teacher.

I'm the youngest of six kids.

Yeah.

Six.

Yeah, I was, you know, kind of

had a lot of, you know, I didn't have a, I sort of like to say that I was friends with everybody, but friends with no one.

I was popular, but I kind of felt like a loner, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, I know exactly what it means.

It's like there's the thing that you that engages with people, and then there's the thing inside going like, dad, they don't like me.

Yeah, exactly.

Which leads to, you know, I don't know.

Strange kind of loneliness.

Strange kind of loneliness, yeah.

And I feel like,

yeah, I've always kind of felt lonely, I guess, but not when I sing.

And

even with all those siblings?

You know,

I was the youngest, and like, so they, you know, they made they picked on me.

They, you know, we, it's not like that now.

Like by the time you were 10, one of them was gone already or two, right?

Oh, yeah.

You know, they were, yeah, because my oldest sister was 14 years older than me.

So, you know, my next, my brother, number five of six, is five years older.

So, you know, I was kind of, I was an uh, not an act, well, an accident, you know, sort of try to keep the family together kind of thing.

Oh, didn't work out.

So, how's that for yourself worth?

Well, you couldn't keep the family together.

Yeah,

Hail Mary, baby.

Hail Mary, baby.

Yeah.

But yeah, so I grew up there, and then I, you know, was in show choir and did all that.

And, and, and I was a swimmer, and I went to school.

I went to Arizona State on a.

But you knew early on that singing kind of got you out of yourself?

It just was, it was just the only thing that

felt real.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, it was just like, and it is real.

I feel like

I was terrified of it for my whole life.

You know, and I play guitar and stuff.

And the...

And even when I watch people sing, when I sing, I feel like it's the most exposing, vulnerable thing I can do.

Yeah.

And I do not love the feeling.

I've gotten better at it.

Yeah.

You know, but as a comic or somebody who lives on stage, to show that part of myself, it feels so fragile and weird.

But like,

but like, that's not my, that's not where my showman stuff comes.

Like, I don't sing confidently.

Yeah, but who cares?

I mean, it's not about that.

For me, it's about, it's always about connection.

You know, it's like

singing and music to me are the best way to connect with other people.

Sure.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter how great you are.

You know, I mean, obviously I love to hear like incredible singers.

But for me, I'd rather go see somebody that is

in their heart.

You know, you can feel it.

It's so moving, man.

If I go to a musical and even watching your show, like when you finally get up on stage, I'm like, oh, God.

You know, again,

like, I've just become this crying man.

I try to do it alone.

Are you a crier?

Are you a...

I am, but I mean, not in situations that would warrant it.

Like I feel

if I'm if I'm in a situation with a human and that feeling comes up, I'll try to keep it down.

But if I'm watching a show or a movie,

it's all out.

Yeah, it happens.

Do you put this roll of paper towels here in case I start crying?

Well, I usually have Kleenex out here.

I think we, Tom Green was in here the other day and his dog threw up.

Oh, okay.

Well, look, it

works for all holes.

Exactly.

Sure.

But

so.

Oh, so all your siblings just kind of beat up on you or just kind of the run?

Yeah, like, you know,

the whole business?

Our family is like the way you show affection is by making fun of each other.

And, you know, I didn't really get my

skill set how to fight back until I got a microphone in New York City.

You know, like, it wasn't like fighting back, but it was like a way of sort of

having

power or having control, you know, like

you

own your, you know, your space.

Yeah.

And I do talk, like, in my live show, the, my cabaret stuff, I talk about my family a lot.

And, you know, similar, I was listening to your.

to was it with David Harbor, you know, like the stuff before and everything, because I was really

responding to what you're talking about before, about the long form and the TikTok.

And it's something that really like

eats at me.

Like just like the way that everything is in small little bites now.

And my cabaret show is, it's about the experience, the beginning to the end, and like, and to hopefully make people feel unlocked and joyful, but to connect with them, you know, and like in my own personal way.

So

have an arc of emotion.

And that's really important to me.

Yeah.

And they're just training people to, you know.

They're breaking people's brains.

It does feel like that.

And they're breaking artists' brains who feel like they have have to sort of do that.

I mean, it was so much better.

Like, I'm glad everybody has the freedom to make their own stuff on their phone or on their camera.

But sometimes the gatekeepers kind of made it better because, you know, it's like, we want to do a whole show.

We're going to produce the whole, and people would go see it.

And now, I don't know.

I don't know what's happening.

I know it's not good.

I know.

I sound like one of those people.

Like, now I'm just like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

Well, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, how can you not if you came up in a different time?

Yeah.

But, um, but so when you're, when you're growing up

and you're singing in these different places, when do you realize it's a thing you're going to do?

Well, I got a scholarship for like a choral scholarship, like vocal performance.

So I went to the choir scholarship, but

I got my degree in vocal performance, like opera singing.

Oh, really?

So when you went to college?

Yeah, when you went to college, Arizona State.

Oh, in Tucson?

Tempe.

Yeah, Tempe.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, the University of Arizona.

Yeah.

I've been to Tempe plenty.

Oh, yeah.

There's There's a comedy club there.

Yeah, and I have a lot of history.

I had an ex-wife from there.

And my brother had a wife from there.

Oh, jeez.

A lot of Arizona in my past.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I did, I loved it there.

I haven't been back since I left, oddly enough.

But yeah, I just

knew I wanted to.

to be a singer, but the only real singing I was doing there was like, I worked at the original P.F.

Chang's, so I would, I met you.

The original, the first PF Chang's.

The first one, thank you very much.

It's in Scottsdale, actually.

In Scottsdale.

Fashion Square there.

Sure.

So that was when it was kind of a

great new restaurant.

It was hot.

It was like Charles Barkley and all his friends, and he brought on all these people.

And so I got to know a lot of professional athletes.

And they would have me, they asked me to sing like the national anthem at some of the spring training games and like different.

So that was the only singing I was doing.

And opera, too?

I would sing, you know, class, you know, like in a classical style voice.

Sure.

But did you ever do opera?

I mean, yeah, but like that's, that's what I, you know, I did, you have to do your, your, your, um,

you know, concerts and all that shit.

You know, but um,

but I would go wild on the weekends and go to karaoke bars, and that's, that was my passion.

What were your songs?

You know, you ought to know, Peace of My Heart, the Classics.

But I mean, I was always terrified of karaoke.

Oh, really?

Well, terrified.

People hate it, but I,

but I know that, like, you know, people do it because it's fun, and they don't necessarily sing well.

Yeah.

But it's just fun to do, and everybody knows that's the score for karaoke.

But in my brain, it's like if I don't sing well, I'm going to walk off of that fun thing and just be like, oh, fuck.

Why the fuck?

I'm terrible.

All those people that are there to just like fucking, you know, vocally masturbate, nobody cares.

Like, I know that.

You love the guy or the woman that are just, they're going for it.

And it gives me so much joy.

I go with my friend.

We used to go to this place called the Parlor every Sunday night when I moved to New York.

And my friend Zach used to sing, you know, Creep by Radiohead.

And it's like, every single time, it was like the first time he sang it, there was so much passion.

And I just, I just, I just love that.

I love the way that music lights people up.

It's, you know.

Yeah, it's great.

But like, I remember there's one guy in our communities.

I don't, I haven't seen him in years, but they would have parties or we have a little thing at a karaoke bar of comics and stuff.

And this guy could sing and he would just go like nail this fucking Zeppelin song or something.

And I'd just be like, no, fuck him.

Yeah, exactly.

I feel that way too, you know?

I mean, give me the show.

Where's the show?

I mean, like,

I used to rip my shirt open.

I was like in it.

I was passionate.

You know, that's, I still do that, but, you know.

So when you finished college, you went back home?

Yeah.

Well, you know, sometimes it works, right?

You'd be surprised how many times it does work.

I'm sure.

Wait, what?

No, after college, I moved.

I used to do this.

I worked at this resort in Maine called Quissasana.

It was like sort of...

Bar Harbor?

No, it was, it's Lake Keys aren't sort of inland, um, but it was a beautiful lake.

And, um, Maine's pretty and weird, so beautiful.

And, um, Stephen King lived on the lake, and it'd be like every summer you would hope to see either a moose or Stephen King, and it was just like so stupid.

But, um, but um, uh, I did, I met him, like, you know, I didn't meet him.

I saw him at like the little country store in the parking lot once.

And he just, he was polite, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure, you know, people, he moved to Maine for a reason, like, get away from me, people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

but anyway that was like sort of a dirty dancing style resort and so you would sing and shows at night and so you were there as a singer yeah you know it was like you know I'd do shows but it would have wait tables during the day right right right right yeah and then I moved to New York I was like fuck it and but you never you never went back like how did your family react to it um to what to singing and to yeah I mean to you pursuing that life

I think they just thought that I was like

I don't think they thought too much of it.

I thought that they just thought I was kind of like, you know, fumbling through life and like because I was waiting to, I was a waitress for so many years.

I think they just,

you know, they didn't, I'd be like, oh, you know, when I started to do cabaret shows, when I started performing,

they didn't know how exciting it was to like get up on a stage in front of real people that bought a ticket.

Did they ever come to New York?

No, I mean, later, like, my, I don't think actually the only one that sees me is my brother, Brock, who's been to see me in New York.

Yeah.

But, you know, at one point, I finally made it into People Magazine, and they're like, okay.

Yeah, that's the expectations are crazy.

Yeah.

You know, you could be working for 20 years doing just fine.

And your parents are like, you know, my, my dad used to say things like, you should talk to, you know, Bill Maher.

He seems to know what's going on.

Okay.

I'm 30 years in.

Like there's some some ticket.

Yeah.

You know, and now it's impossible because no one knows where to watch anything.

Yeah, it's true.

And, you know,

you're excited about a show and people are literally like, I've never heard of it.

And you're like, what do you mean?

Yeah.

It's a big show.

Well, where do you watch it?

It's like, it's so annoying.

You know, T-Moo, T-Moo, wait, no, T-Moose's not a show.

That's like that.

Where you buy clothes, isn't it?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It sounds like it could be a network.

I can't remember all of them.

So when you went to New York, what were your expectations?

You know, I wanted wanted to be on stage like a Broadway singer.

And I got my equity card right away doing some bus and truck thing.

I played the mother and Hansel Gretel traveling show.

We were all on a bus, and you would put the set out.

You go to schools.

You put the set back in, you'd drive to the next stage.

That was an equity gig.

It was an equity gig.

So, did you get representation?

No, no.

I mean,

I made like $180 a week or something.

Would you get it through a children's theater audition?

Yeah, that's exactly.

I went to the actor's equity building.

I stood in line, i audition and i got it and that happened like that was like right away was it like from uh from that paper you where'd you see yeah the what's it called

uh backstage backstage right that's what it was really yeah

but then after that crickets crickets crickets for so long that i lost my equity card because i never worked again and back to waitressing um back to back to waitressing in new york city yeah but

um oh god i worked at um the the majority of the time i worked at this place called ruby foods yeah oh yeah not ruby food yeah but but there's a place rain before that in Main Street.

That was another resume.

DF Chang helped you at Ruby Fooze?

It did.

He saw that on my resume.

He's like, he circled.

I remember he's single.

He's like, oh, DF Chang.

Okay.

And because you had to be like, it was for this.

Ruby Fooze was good.

It was good.

It was fun.

I opened it and I closed it.

I was there for a very long time.

Like I said, I waited tables for, you know, 25, 30 years.

But.

What year are we talking when you get to New York?

Like 97, something like that.

Oh, shit.

I was still around.

Oh, were you?

Yeah.

Like I went back.

Was I like I went back.

Yeah.

I mean, 95, 97, when did I leave?

I mean, I didn't really leave till 2001.

Yeah.

So I was, I'd moved to Queens.

I was living in Astoria doing comedy.

Was there?

So where

when you're working and you do the hands-on girl show, then you're like, you didn't work for like a year?

I just didn't work at all.

Like I was just kidding.

Were you miserable?

Yes, but not on Sunday nights when I would do karaoke.

Like that was my lifeline.

Like, I know it sounds you had a place?

Yeah, we went to this place every Sunday night, the parlor, and I was really like,

it was it for me, but, but luckily,

you know, and I was starting to go to see a lot of shows.

My friend Zach that I mentioned before, he took me to

see Kiki and Herb, which is a very legendary duo in New York, and Murray Hill, who's on my show, as well.

That's funny.

And

I saw, so I went to, I met him, and he put me on a show.

On a cabaret show.

On a cabaret show.

You know, he used to do these shows like at Mo Pickens.

Do you remember Mo Pickens?

It was in the East Village.

Maybe that was just that.

I know, I kind of remember it.

But

so I started to get up and do like songs.

I

was doing these dumb original songs.

With piano accompaniment?

Yeah, with this guy, Kenny Mullman, and we sort of started.

So you were writing songs?

We were writing songs.

But, you know, like the first song, some of the first songs were like At Least It's Pink, which is, you know.

and then Canhole, which is I still love.

It's about butt sex.

It's so stupid.

I mean, but it was fun.

Like, it was just like, to me, like, some of these things were kind of base, but they were also,

it made me laugh.

So I didn't care.

Well, what was the audience?

Who was the audience?

You know, largely gay men and queer people.

And

I was just thinking today, because I was on the plane, you know, flying here and

the crew happened to be, you know, a couple gay men.

And

I was like, man, I'm so happy.

Like, they changed, they saved me.

They saved me.

They changed my life.

They gave me an audience.

They gave me support.

They made me feel like what I was doing was worth something.

And it changed my life.

Well, they're a great audience.

Yeah.

If they, if they take you.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, because there's certain,

you know, there's certain certain comics.

There's some, there's a certain type of female performer that resonates.

Yeah.

I always try to think of like what it is like that appealed for me specifically to, you know, to a gay audience or to a queer audience.

I've never really been able to put my finger on it, but I think that there is something about being exactly who you are and not giving a shit.

Like, do I feel that way in my day-to-day life?

Probably not.

But like on stage, I feel,

you know, when I used to go to the grocery store with my mom, she would never wear a bra she was just very sort of like she had done like the social light you know Manhattan Kansas social light thing but by the time I came around on the divorce and all the kids she did not give a fuck so she was walking around town we called them her beaver tails with her fucking tits hanging out and just you know and she just didn't care and that really sort of sort of shaped me as like as far as like my body and and

and how people accept me like and so for me part of the stage stuff I was doing is really just kind of like, it was born out of her going to food for less, you know, with her nightgown on with no bra and slippers.

I don't know.

No, that makes sense.

There's a freedom in it, you know?

Yeah.

And also watching her progression from growing, being like a wound-up sort of Midwestern school teacher or whatever, to just, you know, her favorite cuss word was motherfucker shitter asser.

By the time she just got, she just didn't give a fuck anymore.

You know,

angry?

Oh, always till the day she died.

but also very very funny you know and like and probably kind of a narcissist but i guess i like that and boozy

oh yeah she was a major drinker until she went to

you know rehab she like you know my my brother and sister took her to rehab and she and she just cleaned she went because she was ready i mean she was like it was bad yeah yeah yeah yeah it was like lock your lock all the doors oh really don't go to work and yeah yeah that kind of vibe yeah well that's like that's uh that's a heavy uh thing to grow up with i guess yeah

i mean it

it is but there were bigger problems you know well were there i don't know what it was just becomes uh if it gets to the point well maybe you were you were older but like when the erratic behavior starts where you just didn't know what you were going to get it kind of it kind of creates a sort of like pensiveness yeah that's true a slight fear of like what's going to happen and you kind of carry that with you yeah you just bottle everything up and until you can find a place to put it yeah Some people put that and they work on themselves.

Sure.

Some people

work on that with other people and connect other people and not just connect with strangers.

Yeah.

No, me too.

I can be more intimate and vulnerable with a room full of strangers than I can in my personal relationships.

Yeah.

It's a fucking nightmare in a way.

Yeah.

I mean, for some reason,

when I'm just with people that I'm building relationships or with or whatever,

the vulnerability is too frightening somehow.

Yeah.

Like, I'm going to be pummeled.

I agree.

I mean, and there is a moment in my TV show, like, where I we put in the script, I was like, this feels too on the nose.

Yeah.

You know, but Carolyn Strauss, who was our producer,

yeah, and she's great, godmother, you know, sort of like, yeah, she'd be like, you say that because that's what you mean.

And like, it's just like, I just don't want you to leave me.

And I feel like that is, you know, I could cry because that's the way I feel about everybody.

Yeah.

And sometimes, well, then, you know, the the fear of leaving will stop you from engaging.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's the fucking word.

Yeah.

I walk in a room sometimes with some of my closest friends and I feel like I'm back to one because I feel like I pull myself back constantly.

Yeah.

And they're not doing anything.

Yeah.

It's me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're projecting all kinds of shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I've worn these people out.

Yeah.

You know, whatever, whatever it is, I'm like, well, they love their partner more than they love me.

You know,

not even that.

It's just like,

I can be replaced or I can be forgotten about, you know, and it's, it's a problem.

And so there's a lot of that

in the show, which, you know, I think, I think you asked at some point, like, you know, is it based on me or whatever.

But, but everything I do is really just born out of fear and how I'm trying to protect myself.

And I think my live show, the cabaret stuff is like, I mean, I sing songs like, what I gotta do to get that dick in my mouth, but I also always, when I'm with my band, classic.

always like,

there's a big chunk in the middle of my show about my family and my sister and my dad and all these things and my mom now, and because they're all gone.

And like, I cry probably 75% of the time when I'm singing the song because I'm just like,

you know, I allow myself, I give myself the permission

to

because even though there's a room full of people there, it's like

I feel safer there.

As you're mentioning before, like more.

Well,

it's your space.

Yeah.

You, you know, you kind of own it.

And they're not going to leave because they just spend however much money to buy a fucking ticket.

They're like, well, I'm in.

Yeah.

I just, well, it's interesting because I know in the show,

you know, people who grow up with that, like, because I have it too, there's, I know I have this neediness that I've, you know,

kind of boxed up.

Yeah.

And it lives in me.

Yeah.

Because I've learned from experience that, you know,

I could be an exhausting friend.

By why, how?

Like, what do you mean?

Well, just, I mean, like, like, I was always the kind of guy that, like, you know, I'd get one friend

and that relationship on my side was sort of like totally engaged.

But I just needed that one guy.

And if that started to wobble, I'd be like, I'd be like, what the fuck is happening?

What am I doing?

Like, I remember that, but at some point, I killed that part of me.

All right.

So I'm just doing myself a little screen.

It's a tick.

Yeah.

So do you, so now do you, you parse it out a little bit more?

Well, I think over, as I get older, you know,

I have friends for many years now, but it's still, I used to do a joke about it.

I used to do like, you know,

I don't know how when people say they have a lot of friends, I'm like, no, you don't.

And I say, you know, you only need two friends.

You need the main guy and the guy you go to when you drain the main guy.

Hey, man, can I talk to you?

He's like, well, I'm kind of busy right now.

Sorry, I'll call the other guy.

You take a break.

Well, see, I feel like I need to keep a little bit of a deeper roster in case, you know, one leaves me.

Like, I think that they all will.

So you're carrying a few?

I'm carrying a few.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also, like.

Long phone list.

They put in the work.

Like, I, you know, when I grew up in Kansas, like I said, and what, you know, I'm, my mom used to say, you know, she said a lot of things, but one was like, you can't trust anybody but yourself.

And I guess that does sort of stick with you if you're here enough times.

Yeah.

And so, but my friends in New York really

have, you know,

they're all therapized and, you know, they've they.

And that was not something you grew up with?

No, I've never been to therapy, except for when I was

well, I went in grade school, like when they made us, like, they had us like when we were all fighting too much, which is probably my fault, you know, because I was from a, you know, a chaotic household and I was probably lashing out too much.

And so we all had to go see a child psychologist, but not in my, not in my adult life.

Really?

Yeah.

I should.

Yeah.

I've gone sporadically, you know, sometimes for long periods of time.

But as you get older, you're like,

that was another bit I did.

When you go to a therapist as an older person,

you kind of know yourself, you know, why you're going.

So it's sort of like, look, I know there's some things we're not going to be able to unfuck.

Yeah.

I'm having these specific things.

Yeah.

So maybe give me some perspective on that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And sometimes it helps.

I just started again, actually.

Well, I, I sort of liked, you know, what David was saying about, you know, the sort of the old school style where you go and you don't really look at them.

Oh, yeah.

And you lay on the thing and you sort of never see them.

Yeah, he's doing real old school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that could work.

But I'm, there's something about me, too, that's also afraid of because I feel like

You know, my I have so many emotional tripwires, which is sort of helpful in,

you know, when I'm writing and creating and singing and all that.

Like, it helps me feel like very, um, they're just all right there.

They're sort of just so, they're so I can grab them, you know.

I'm afraid, like, if I get fixed, does that mean I'm not going to be able to like?

Oh, you're never going to get that fixed.

That's true.

I mean, I'm,

there's a lot of, there's a lot that needs to be addressed.

Those wired-in resources are always going to be there.

Yeah.

You just might have a little more control over them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm talking about that right now in my act about like how, because I'm I'm trying a very specific medication and there's the fear like is does all my creative creativity come from that place?

And then I say am I just mining for gold in a river of panic?

You like that one.

I do.

It's not a big laugh line, but it's an interesting image.

No, I love it.

And also, you know, one of my favorite things is that my friends, my friend Larry does this and my friend Zach, like when they make themselves laugh, I just, I'm so delighted by people that can recognize their own when they've really, when they've said something cute.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, sometimes it's sort of

you're trying to prompt it.

Let them know.

Yeah.

No, you're meant to laugh.

That's the funny part.

You on board?

Yeah, it's a trick.

And I don't really like when I do it on stage, you know?

Because, you know, you do the same, like you do the act over and over again, and then you find yourself laughing in the right place.

Like, yeah, okay, so you're uncomfortable there.

Well, just let them have it.

You don't have to

shield yourself.

I was like, there was like one

thing in my show.

I can't remember what it was, like my live thing.

And I was just like,

and then I started to just put it in.

Like, I just started would make myself laugh.

I was like, stop.

Like, I don't like anything that feels false.

So I just got rid of it.

Oh, I put things in my show that never get laughs, but I'm, but I like them.

Yeah.

There's one thing I keep that I can't get rid of.

I'm like, that one's for me.

I just, I say that after that.

That one's for me.

Yeah.

Take it.

It's yours.

So, but when you start, what's the evolution?

I don't know the Cabaret scene.

Were there comics around that I might know in the Cabaret scene?

Stand-ups ever?

Well, like, somebody who's killing it right now is Cola Scola.

Do you know Cola Scola?

Oh, well, you got to see.

It's O'Mary on Broadway.

They just got nominated for a bunch of Tony's too.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm trying to think who else you might know in that world.

But

did Schumer, like, did you know Amy Schumer?

I met Amy, so I went to the

I went to Just for Laughs.

Oh, okay.

With your show.

With my show.

Yeah, yeah.

When was that?

I'm gonna.

I can't really remember, honestly.

Well, that's interesting.

So you got into the festival.

Yeah, like 2011, maybe.

Oh, okay.

Give or take.

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, you were there, I remember, because I was talking to somebody and you were coming off the, you know, the Hyatt, you were coming off the elevator.

Yeah.

And I remember seeing you.

But

anyway, that's sort of where Amy and I connected.

Okay.

She had seen me perform at this small theater in New York called Ars Nova.

I know that place, yeah.

And we just hit it off.

We both like Chardonnay.

We both have sort of a filthy sense of humor.

And she took me on the road with her.

Oh, really?

So you did songs?

Yeah, I would do.

I used to open for her, and then I started closing for her because it is hard to follow a singer, you know, and like, and I like...

do the airplane at the end.

I go out and I'm in the audience, sing alongs and all this shit.

But yeah,

she's been really great to me for me.

She's really helped me along the way.

She's very generous

and paid me so I could

keep going and quit waiting tables.

Yeah, okay.

You know, she would

be super

super generous.

Because there were so many scenes in New York.

Yeah, my scene is more like performance art, cabaret.

But, you know, I started a band

in around, we just would have, we're just celebrating our 15 years together.

And I don't know if, you know, how much you know about my situation, but

one of the founding members of my band, The Tender Moments, was

King Adraca, Adam Horowitz from The Beast of Voice.

He played the bass, and he was somebody else who was very helpful to me.

Like,

I was writing these songs, or you know, one of my...

more well-known cabaret songs is called titties.

And I was, I told him about it and I was like this is this is dummy's right he's like nah sounds like a hit you know and but he validated me you know and like and then he helped they have their studio um the BC Boys had a psycoscope and so he in New York in New York yeah um so he he's like you have to write songs so you can do an album um we recorded it there so I had it you know my first album um he produced it he produced it oh wow

so when was that oh that's been years ago yeah yeah um

But I'm still singing those same tired songs, but people like them.

But anyway, he,

so I,

so the kind of people that have helped me out along the way have been, you know, a variety of different, you know, than my friend Scott Whitman, who's from the Broadway world, was, he's helped me.

And yeah.

But

as far as like stand-ups, like I knew a lot of them, but I didn't, it wasn't really my world.

And so going to Just for Laughs to me was like

so much anxiety.

Like I just like, I was up in my room hiding and Amy's like, come down because they have those huge parties and everybody's there.

And I was like, I'm like, I would rather jump out the window.

I do not want to fucking go talk to a bunch of comics and business, you know, and biz types or whatever.

But she encouraged me to do it.

And I always thought that like it was

that they are sort of compatible.

I mean, like so many cabaret acts are hilarious.

I mean, there is like comedy all the way through it, usually.

Yeah.

I mean,

I think my my show is meant to be funny.

Like I think of myself as a singer first but but I but I want people to to laugh and let go.

So but like when when you're doing like these karaoke nights and then you're doing bits on other people's shows, how do you put together a whole cabaret show?

When does that happen?

So my friend Jason Egan who was the

founding or well he's the artistic director at

he he's just now leaving ours no rap for many years.

So it's a theater for emerging artists and he saw me sing karaoke and he's like, I think you should do a show.

And And I was like, What are you talking about?

I just did a show.

You saw me, yeah, he was on top of the bar.

That was that was so good.

But he encouraged me to

like put together a structured show

there at Ars Nova.

And I did.

And

so he is kind of the first person that saw something beyond just getting up and singing a song on somebody's show, but really thought that I could do something.

And that night, the

John Steingart, who

he and his wife own Ars Nova, Yeah.

They, he's like, we have to,

this is something and we should do something with her.

So he came to LA and knew Michael Patrick, or met Michael Patrick King for, you know, Sex in the City and the comeback and everything.

And he's like, I have somebody I think you should see.

And she, she's raw, but there's something there.

Yeah.

And so I, so Kenny and Michael and I all did this show called At least it's Pink.

And it just, I've slowly just, every night I was just out fucking doing something.

Yeah.

Because I loved it.

I would wait tables and then I would go sing on somebody's show.

You know how it is.

You just, you take whatever you can

the gigs.

Yeah.

And then it just kept going.

And you have a composer that you work with?

Well, now I've written songs with all different kinds of people.

I've written with Adam.

I've written with, you know, I wrote with Kenny at the time.

I wrote with.

Scott Witman and Mark Shaman.

I've written a lot of songs with my band, Matt Rae, Mike Jackson, Carl Michiavelli, and Danton Bowler.

When you do the band,

is it just an extension of the cabaret where you're doing stuff in between?

Well, yeah, like

it's kind of a rock show with

talking in between.

Yeah, yeah.

And so my mainstay is Joe's Pub in New York.

Yeah.

But I'm going to be in L.A.

this summer.

I'm playing The Will Turn, which will be exciting.

I've played

Largo and L Re here with a band, but this will be the first time we're going on a little mini tour.

But it's a ride.

What's the name of the band?

The Tender Moments.

Yeah.

Big Following?

Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, sure.

I mean, we played the beacon last year, so I guess that's that's good.

That's you know, we're not

at Madison Square Garden, but I think we're doing good.

And whenever I saw, I saw people really like to see me at Joe's.

And you were at Joe's a long time, right?

I've been there a long time, and people, that's kind of like a thing.

People really want to see me there, but I wanted to try something else, so I did the beacon.

Yeah, um, but

that's a big change.

What's it was Joe's seat?

A couple hundred

a couple hundred, yeah.

Beacon's like 2,200.

It's almost three, like it's bigger, yeah, 26.

But I was like, fuck it.

And it was great.

Well, you're a big act.

You know, big enough.

Yeah.

It's just a matter of whether you can fill the space.

Yeah, it is.

You know, and you feel it.

Yeah.

And I wasn't sure.

Yeah, but you did it.

Yeah.

So, but you know, in all this,

that's a whole life that you're living.

So how does the show happen?

So I was at Largo with my band and HBO came and

ultimately they gave they gave me a holding deal.

Right.

But Carolyn, Carolyn wasn't there still, was she?

No, but she's independent.

Like she had a, she was like sort of an independent producer or whatever.

Because she was ahead of HBO years ago.

Like I've known her for my whole life.

Yeah.

It feels like.

So I, first thing I did was with Carolyn and Michael, Patrick King and I sort of, we had this, um, and we did it with Bobcat Goldfake.

We did a pilot for Amazon that didn't end up going.

Bobby directed?

Yeah, him and Michael together.

Yeah.

And that didn't get picked up.

Was it the same story?

No, this was different.

What was that one?

I worked in a home with like Down syndrome kids, and Lonnie Anderson was my roommate.

And it sounds wild, but it was actually really sweet.

Yeah.

I love Lonnie Anderson.

I think, like, I just, yeah, you know, you remember Lonnie Anderson?

Of course.

Yeah.

I love her.

I was just on eBay looking for an autographed picture of her today.

Did she pass away?

No, no, no, no, no.

She's around.

She's, she's.

You could probably ask her for an autographed picture.

I know.

I guess I could.

I have her number.

But But she's so great and she's still, like, she's a fox.

Yeah.

Anyway,

so that didn't go, but I got this holding deal.

So

I called up Carolyn and I was like, I just, I got this deal.

Yeah.

Would you want to do something?

Yeah.

Like not really realizing I was asking, she's pretty legendary.

Totally.

She's like, if you want me, I'm in.

And then like we connected with Paul Thorine and Hannah Boss, who are from kind of the same scene as me, ours Novo World.

And they pitched the idea for the show.

They jumped up a world and then we all just sort of, I'd say the four of us are kind of the creative center of the show.

So you did like, you had a deal, so you were working with these showrunners like Michael, right?

Well, that was that was the first one.

That was the first one.

And so the second one was Carolyn and then Paul...

Paul, Paul Thoreen and Hannah Boss.

Okay, so they were the writers.

They were the writers.

So they came up with the idea of somebody somewhere.

But you were telling them your life.

Well, I think they knew a lot about my life because they'd seen my shows and they knew my deal

and all that.

And so they knew I had a dead sister, Czech.

They knew that I loved singing, Check.

And then the only they wrote apart for Murray Hill as Fred Rococo, who had been a longtime friend of mine.

And I heard those three elements and I was like, you know, shit, this is.

It's great.

Yeah.

So

when you cast it, because I don't.

I don't know Jeff Hiller, but I know he does some pretty wild stuff.

He's great.

Yeah.

In terms of like, like, I think my girlfriend knows him from horror stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

That's like very different, Jeff.

No, I know, but like, you know, that sort of

it seems to me that, you know, that relationship that you guys have in the show is, is so, it's so sweet, but it's also,

you know, he's not going to let you push him away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is kind of like what we were talking about before.

Yeah, there's, there's like, to me, like he's sort of an amalgamation or whatever the right word is of my friend Zach that I was talking about and some of my other friends that like really

even left if I would fuck up and I was like, well, that's it.

They'd be like, no, I'm mad.

And I really fucking piss at you right now, but that's, this is not it.

You know, we're, we're in this.

I'm like, what do you mean?

Let me go.

So let me go.

Let me just, let me do this again myself.

Let me fuck it up.

Yeah, let me fuck it up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the thing about Jeff, when he auditioned, was that he, he, there's something so sweet and undeniable about him.

So,

were you part of casting?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I was the one that suggested Jeff because I'd known him from around the scene.

He was like in the

upright, you know, citizens were great.

So he was sort of like in that world.

Right.

So kind of we're just like, our circles were sort of crossing.

And he was a guest on the show.

I used to do it, Joe.

It's called Our Hit Parade.

But

anyway, he auditioned.

He was incredible.

And i feel you know he's definitely like the sort of special sauce like he yeah he is

he

is such a big part of the foundation of why the show is successful yeah he's funny and sweet and yeah complex and yeah it's he's great you guys are great together but like where did you get the um

did you feel were you nervous about the acting yes very nervous yeah yeah like

not his mine like i was because i'm not a trained actor actor.

I mean, I'd done some stuff.

I did this,

I'd done like little, I did the Sex and City movie.

I did like small things.

I did this movie called Patty Cakes, which really helped me.

It was like a sundance kind of situation.

And the director, Jeremy Jasper, was like, he saw me on Amy's show, you know, Inside Amy Schumer.

I used to close the season with a song.

And I think he saw me singing, What I Gotta Do to Get That Dick in My Mouth.

And he's like, She should be, she should play the mother in my movie.

And I did.

A no-brainer.

Yeah.

But he took, he had had a lot of patience with me and and um Danielle McDonald who played patty cakes like they they were very gentle with me and sort of helped me because I just am constantly wracked with fear and self-doubt like I just can't like the reason I like to do my my live shows because I'm in control and like yeah I don't have to worry about anybody being like well you're not doing it right because if I hear I'm not doing it right then I'm like

but yeah I did you get a coach or anything no I just was like

figure it out I just I'll just figure it out and then like I knew

we they they, we, you know, Paul and Hannah and Carolyn, everybody created such a,

and Jay Duplas directed our pilot.

Everybody created such a warm environment.

It was like you couldn't, you couldn't fuck up because you were, you felt so cared for.

Yeah.

And we just took our time, even though we shoot like, you know, a thousand scenes a day, but

I don't know.

How did you feel about acting at first?

I knew.

You're like, I knew I was, I had it.

No, no, I don't know that I have it, but I do, you know, I can do it.

You know what I mean?

But I don't feel like I have a lot of range necessarily in terms of character, but I know that I can listen and I know I can be present and I know that I can emotionally engage

with the scene.

Yeah.

And, but I knew also when I did my show on IFC that just from seeing other comics, I knew that there was going to be a learning curve and I would probably suck for about a season or two.

Yeah.

And I, just because I don't know how to be in my body that way.

Yeah.

And I did, I thought.

But it was fine.

It was on IFC and I, and I knew it going in.

I, you know, it was one of the first times I was like, dude, you, you, you don't know how to do this.

Yeah.

So, and the stakes aren't that high.

So just figure it out.

Yeah.

And I think

I've figured out something, you know,

and I feel better about it.

But, but, but when you do some version of yourself, which I think everyone does.

Everyone mostly does, unless you're like, right.

But then like, in terms of getting jobs, I'm sort of like, is this, am I being creative?

Is it worth all the time I'm spending in the trailer?

You know, is it satisfying?

Yeah.

You know, it's hard for me to judge, you know, but when you're like, like you, and like I, in my show as well, and

I just recently did a little film where I'm the lead.

If you're that busy, it's great.

Yeah.

But if you don't, if you have time to sit in the trailer and be like, what the fuck?

What the fuck are they doing?

Yeah, exactly.

We're just like, I've been here six.

I've been here since six.

Yeah.

What's going on?

What do you mean you're having lunch?

Yeah.

What could be going on?

Yeah.

But, you know, I'm looking for challenging things that will make me feel like I'm making very distinct choices and I'm sort of like, well, that's not really me.

And I've done some, you know, I think I did okay on Glow.

I think you did great.

Well, thanks.

But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I,

I'm more confident now because I give less of a fuck, I think.

Yeah, that helps.

Yeah, I think in terms of everything because you get to a certain age where you're like, what the fuck difference?

You know, it's, you know, you did it, you know.

Yeah.

But

I still can't watch myself.

I don't like it either.

But there's something about doing the, because we edited everything.

Yeah.

So there was that forced me to kind of get over a lot of stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, because you were in the room.

Yeah.

And the thing with like the acting was like first season, like I had some good moments.

I had some bumpy moments.

But I think by season two and season three, I felt really comfortable.

Well, that's interesting because I didn't notice any.

So like, you know, what we notice

from being in it and then watching it, and you're like, I could have, why didn't they go with the other?

Well, honestly, like, I thought, like, especially like

in the last season, like, I was so in love with everybody on the show.

And, like, and I, like, there were scenes I was doing with Mary Catherine, who's my, who played my sister, Trisha.

She's so fucking good.

She's so fucking good.

You know, we used to be roommates.

We were in New York.

We lived together, and she was like on Broadway.

She was killing it.

She's so funny.

But she's, she's always been one of my favorite actors.

But she, I was just like, sometimes we're watching her in the scene.

I'm like, wait, I got to, I'm the other part of this.

I got to just stop like fangirling over her.

Oh, that happens to me all the time.

It's fucking nuts.

Yeah, because who am I?

Like, I, in this movie, I did a scene with Sharon Stone.

I was like, what the fuck is happening?

Why?

Like, how am I here?

Yeah.

And

I really couldn't.

Like, we did two takes

for a master.

And I went back to my trailer.

And I was like, get me out of this.

I can't.

What am I doing?

I'm not an actor.

That's Sharon Stone in there and she's all in.

Yeah.

And it was one of those weird moments where I'm like, dude, you better pull it together.

Yeah.

You know, look at the little points that you learned from Al Pacino.

You know, why are you there?

What are you doing?

Go to the character.

Yeah.

And fucking.

And that you're there for a reason.

You know, you have to remember that.

That's the hardest thing to remember sometimes, that they want you there.

Yeah, I don't believe that.

I don't either.

It's like, who turned this down?

I don't even have that many Instagram followers.

What do you think you're going to get out of me on the promotional side?

I know.

I know.

Oh, my God.

That's so true.

That's so fucked up.

That hurts.

Yeah.

But you are

undeniably

a thing, you know, so you have your own thing.

Like, I know I do too, but sometimes I think the thing that they think I am is limited.

You know, like, you know, I'm not just some cranky fuck.

You know,

I'm sensitive.

I run deep, man.

Let's get to the deep part.

See,

there's your next show.

Oh,

I know.

Mark Marin, I'm deep.

Yeah,

I'm always doing some version of that.

I think this special is going to be called Panicked.

Oh my God.

I just got myself some

propofol.

What's it called?

Yeah, Propofol.

The beta blocker.

The bit.

Is that what it's called?

Yeah, the beta blocker.

Yeah, I just got that.

And I'm afraid to take it because

I'm afraid it'll take the thing off of me.

why'd you get it

because i get like when it's outside of somebody somewhere like i did something last summer and i was so like i already had food poisoning so i was having a lot of issues

and um and i just could not get out of my head i was like but i was afraid to take it because i didn't want to not be it was an emotional scene so i had to be emo and right right so i just went there and I sucked really bad the first couple times and the director came in.

You could see that he was like, We've made a mistake.

I mean, I know that look because I've had it on my face before.

What were we thinking?

But it wasn't though, but I got there, but I'm just like, that's part of my process to really fuck it up a couple times.

That's part of my life.

I've gotten better at it.

But now, like what I do when I'm nervous, or like I have to travel, and I got to do this special next Saturday, is that like, you know, God damn it, I hope I don't get a cold sore.

Or yeah, yeah, I hope I don't get sick.

Oh, yeah.

Is my hair okay?

I mean, what the fuck is happening?

Why did I choose this shirt?

Like anything to undermine myself.

And it's like, I can't fucking figure out what, why is, why is that happening?

At this stage.

At this stage.

It's just like, you know, and I have to shut it off.

That's why I got on this medicine I got on.

Yeah, I just had this similar thing.

Like I did just a little run of shows earlier this month.

Yeah.

And I like went to the to the sound check and like my top note just like was not there.

And from there, I just fucking spiraled broke it all down i had to i i i've never had this happen before like i was like should i cancel so i can't cancel because i know people yeah yeah you know they're making an effort to be here and everything did you ever did you get all the way to um was i ever good at this

no i just like i just you know but i was having such bad anxiety that it felt like that there was a foot on top of my soft palate and the roof of my mouth like pushing out so i had to go to this ear nose and throat doctor and he gave me a xanax because like i couldn't i've never never experienced this before.

And I was like, what the fuck?

Yeah.

Because it's like, and I'm like, why is this happening after all these years?

I have sung in my underwear in front of Gloria Stein.

I'm like, what the fuck is my problem?

You know what I mean?

But it wasn't the thing, my whatever was just off.

So now I'm like, is this what it's going to be like from now on?

But like, I just went to another doctor who,

because since then, or after that, I had like this incredible like neck and jaw tension.

Yeah.

So he ended up shooting lidocaine in my jaw and neck and i feel much better now and i think it was just an episode but like i cannot live that way like i can't yeah and xanax worked

it did help me yeah i'm not a i'm not a pill popper so that's a relaxing one the beta blockers like i don't it's hard to feel what they even do like i i was prescribed them once because i was in a very kind of um high drama, codependent relationship.

And I didn't want to get angry.

Okay.

So someone gave me beta blackers.

I don't know if it did, but knowing I was taking them sort of helped.

Like, cause she would do things to just make me mad to get the drama going.

Yeah.

And I'm like, and I'm going to Al-Anon and shit.

And I'm like, I got to detach, dude.

You just got to fucking, you know, this is not your problem.

Yeah.

And then, like, you know, I needed the beta blackers to, you know, enforce my Al-Anon.

Whatever it takes.

Well, yeah, well, it took getting out of the relationship.

Well, that'll, that'll do it.

We all find our way eventually.

Yeah.

But

yeah, the stuff, well, that was another reason the show is so good is because there are very, you know, strangely real moments that are, that are very,

not base, but the vulnerability of just, you know, bodily functions and that kind of stuff.

There's something about the scene where your sister's on the toilet and she it burns

when she pees

that

I don't know who who wrote that line, but that line of sort of like, well, sometimes it burns.

It burns a little bit.

Your line,

it happens.

That might have been.

Yeah, I don't care if that was written or improv.

But it's like, it's such, it's a strange thing to, like, as a sexually active person,

that, that, to have gone through that, that moment of sort of like, oh, I don't know.

Well, maybe it's all right.

I'll wait a couple of days.

And

it's fine.

Yeah.

But to me, it was such a profoundly

real moment.

And then when you go look at it, it's just too funny.

Well, I think like, you know, the point of that was obviously to show their growth, you know,

sure, sure.

But, but that's also like

sisters.

Like, I remember when I was little, my, my one sister's like, I get over here, I'm gonna show you how to put a tampon, and I'm like, I'm eight.

Yeah,

like

just

on the toilet, and I'm like, okay, now, you know, just like, got it, yeah, okay,

I will not forget this.

Thank you.

Well, I guess that's the benefit and the, the, the downside of having so many older siblings.

Yeah, exactly.

So your sister passed away, though.

How long has that been?

2008.

Oh, yeah.

Wow, huh?

So my dad was 2006, she was 2007, and then my mom died, like,

I think three years ago now.

On Monday, it'll be three years.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's a lot.

Yeah.

I guess it happens.

And was it similar to the story in the show that your sister got cancer?

My sister did get cancer, but her story was different.

It was really,

you know

she she did get cancer and at that time i was waiting tables i had like no money yeah and like you know there was like this thing like you know i should go back see her she was in california at that point and i yeah and i didn't

have the money i didn't get there in time and like talk you know having my last conversation with her haunted me for years and

you know like they're just like wailing why me and and just you know she was a sweet one like you know my brothers and sisters like my oldest sister Britton, was

very

sweet and like, and really

always looked out for me and believed in me.

Yeah.

You know, she was in season one, there's a thing like where I bring like my tape to her graveside, you know, because and

part of that was was born out of like she always wanted to hear what I was doing and I was singing these songs like fucking canhole and at least is pink and I was like, she's going to think these are stupid.

She wouldn't have, but I was too embarrassed to share it with her and I never did.

And then,

you know, she was very supportive, and so was my mom.

But, like, I early on.

And

so it was just, there was a lot of like

my

shame about how I handled the end of her life that's in the show.

There's a lot of grief.

There's a lot of me, right?

And a lot of

sort of a, it's, it's,

you know, I loved her, and I'm, I'm, I, I did not do right by her at the end of her life.

And so to me, this is kind of a way of

honoring her.

That sounds like such a shitty thing to do, like after somebody's gone.

But I think about her all the time.

I talk to her all the time, even though it's been this many years.

My mom and I were very close.

And when she died, it was really hard.

My dad, you know, when we weren't close, and that's hard for its own.

Sure.

But, you know, there is something about her who was like kind of sweet and like

50 when she died.

And to me, like, she had like this really vulnerable, helpless, who's so funny, but like,

like she was kind of like the, an easy target kind of thing.

And a lot of bad things happened to her.

And

I just,

I just, you know, I just, so I, when I sing about her now, I still cry because it's just, it's just, it's so much.

Were you able to,

like in doing the show, were you able to process it differently?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I had a lot of loss during the show and a lot of loss leading up to the show because, you know, we had

like sort of each season, first season, my dog died in the middle, like the middle shooting.

Yeah.

And Poppy was like, if she was the love of my life, like literally the love of my life.

And then season two, right before we shot it, Mike Haggerty, who played my...

My dad, he died.

That was very difficult because we had a very special connection.

And then my mom died before season three.

And so it's like when you're doing a show that's sort of about dealing with grief, but you're going through it yourself, it was really overwhelming.

And I felt like everything that I was also putting of myself in the show, like about

the way I feel about myself and self-worth and love and

how I have a hard time connecting other people and all those things.

Like it just, it was just so much.

Yeah.

And that was all going on.

It was all happening, but like once we finished, I have like a I somehow have a

a sense of peace about like that I acknowledge some of my grief finally yeah

and

I'm able to kind of like

not just beat up on myself for about not maybe having the right kind of relationship with my dad or

failing my sister like I just feel like I

I don't know there there's something about like

finally

facing it.

And, you know, like you said, you know, I don't know.

When you're not somebody that doesn't, if you don't go to therapy, like get yourself a show because that'll help you.

I don't know.

Sure.

Well, I mean, it's.

Well, I mean, there's definitely that thought that, you know, you did, you did get through it.

And it did bring it back to the surface in a way that was contained in some way.

You had to show up to do the work.

Yeah.

But those emotions were able to work within what you were doing.

Yeah.

And so on some level to be able to sit with

grief

in a way that's supported is a big deal.

It's a huge deal.

And I think.

And be seen, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel really lucky to have worked with the people that I did who really

cared, you know, cared about me, cared for me, cared about the show.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

It's great.

It's like, you know, because I talked about that in my last special that because it's uncontrollable when you get into the zone of it.

But there were two things that kind of were in my mind, which was like, this isn't unusual.

It happens to everybody.

This is part of life.

Yeah.

But there is a sense that, you know, you can't,

you know, you want to keep it to yourself.

Somehow.

Yeah.

And but it's uncontrollable.

Yeah.

So you have that moment where you realize like, well, people are built to deal with this.

Yeah.

You know, this is part of the human experience.

And once you cross that threshold to have those feelings in a public way, you know, it's a big relief.

It is a relief.

But like, I feel like after

anytime somebody...

Like when my mom died,

my friend's like, I'm coming over.

I was like, don't come over.

Like, I couldn't even bear to see somebody.

Like, I couldn't bear to,

I couldn't,

I couldn't bear it.

Like when my dog Poppy died, like Carolyn's like, do you want people to say something to you or do you want everybody to,

you know, because I was, I put her down on Sunday and I was back at work Monday, 6 a.m.

You know?

Yeah.

And so the word went out and nobody said anything to me.

But like, I couldn't even, I couldn't, I can't face people when I when I hurt that much.

Yeah.

And, and the show has kind of helped me,

you know, like the stuff I did with Jeff.

It's like some of the scenes when you've

like it's always going to be better when you have, when you let somebody catch you.

But for me, that is so hard.

I know.

It's so hard to let somebody catch me because it's, and there's, why, why do you feel any shame around grief?

Like, why do I feel that way sometimes?

Or why?

Because it's a vulnerability you can't control.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like usually, you know, even when you're singing, you know,

the emotional depth you have control over.

Yeah.

But like grief, it's just like, it's just there.

You're not, you can't, you can't stop it.

You can't stop it.

And so that feeling of of not having control of these emotions um it's hard but what like like like i said like once it's out and you see yeah it's okay it's like a fucking gift it's it is a gift and there's something that's so wonderful like about connecting with people who have your same specific kind of grief yeah like that that or maybe you know like

I felt that I just was so grateful to have people to talk to that were like, I've lost my sister too, or I've lost my, you know, or like, of course, you know, my friend said to me, this is something after my mom died that I thought was so, um,

and it was something I'd never said out loud, but it's, because I felt embarrassed about it.

Yeah.

But he was like, nobody's ever going to look at me the way my mom, that my mother looked at me because she, I was her, you know, I was her favorite.

She loved me.

And I was like, that's it.

Like, that's the thing.

Like, I can't even,

like, nobody's going to look at me.

Like, my mom.

Looked at me because I was so special to her.

And like, and you think about going through life, I'm in it for the rest of my life.

There's nobody that feels, you know, that that has, and like, that is, you grieve your mother, and you grieve the loss of that.

I mean, that, and that feels like kind of like I had a lot of shame about that.

But, but, but what's interesting, though, I don't know if you found this so, is that you can get there, you can still be seen by your mother, yeah,

and you know,

it's emotional.

What,

like, when I did that that scene with Sharon Stone,

you know, Lynn, who was my girlfriend and she was a director and she was always very supportive of my acting, really was like, you got to do it, you got to do it.

And to get to a place of emotion that I needed for the scene, like I knew I wanted to sort of tap into that, but I didn't know how.

You can't just like lock into like someone passing.

But I locked into

how much she believed in me.

Yeah.

And that's always there for you.

Yeah.

Like whatever that dynamic with your mother, you know, the way she looked at you, you can get there pretty easily, right?

Yeah.

And that's, and that's, that's what it is.

That's what living with it is.

Yeah.

And integrating it into your being and the gift that it was, but it still is.

You know, there's no other way to

put it into perspective.

I think

you're so right, but to me,

it's almost like

too painful.

I know, I know.

But that pain, like even when I just felt it,

it's pain, but it's also like...

Like they're there.

Yeah, but also like

it's honoring them.

Yeah.

Like it reconnects you with them.

Like it's not the pain of loss.

It's the pain of missing.

Yeah.

And that's different.

Like they're already gone.

But it's okay to miss people.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

I don't think it's like a trauma of like re-triggering the moment they go away or they die, but it's sort of like reconnecting with the feelings that were good.

But it's a missing thing.

And I think that's okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Fucking.

Fucking.

Barbara, Mark, Marin Walters.

But it's, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to hear that because I, you know, I do feel like there's so many things and I, and I, and I do believe it's like taking the

the things that people, you know, have given you that have have made you, you know, that made you special.

Like I do sort of talk about, you know, I've just started talking about on my show a little bit, like,

like the, you know, that my

dad was the funny one and my sister was the heart and my mom was the music.

And like, and I know that they are probably the three most

they built me.

Yeah.

You know?

Exactly.

Yeah.

And

and

and I and I do I know that that I am like them.

You know what I mean?

Like they those are the good things.

Those are the good things.

But like thinking about some of that,

I mean, it's so overwhelming

that feeling you're talking about.

It's so overwhelming.

When there's so much to like, you know, my parents are still hanging on.

Yeah.

You know, I have had to put a couple of cats down that I loved a lot.

Yeah.

You know, and Lynn's gone.

You know, and I,

it's just fucking life though, you know, and, and, and it, it's like you don't have to live in those spaces.

And usually, you know, when they come up, and I'm closing my show with this now about this,

about when it comes, it's triggered by something.

Is that the thing that I focus in on is that you let it happen as much as you can.

And it's almost like a check-in, man.

It doesn't, you know what I mean?

It doesn't have to be like,

why?

You know,

because you're through that.

Yeah.

You know, but it's just sort of like a

check-in.

And I think if you frame it around reconnecting with your feelings for that person, then it becomes something different.

You know what I mean?

I don't, I, you know, but the problem is, like, even that little bit that came up for me, like, you know, then when it comes up, it's still pulling at you.

It's like, well, no, just let's go.

Let's go in.

You're like, I can't.

I have things to do.

I don't know.

It's

we're okay.

Who needs to do therapy when you just do a podcast?

Oh.

Well, it was great talking to you.

Yeah.

You feel all right?

Oh, fucking.

Yeah.

Can you go back to the hotel and cry?

I might.

I like that.

I like laying in a cold hotel room, just bawling.

Lightly, not even rocking back and forth, just sort of rolling back and forth.

Yeah.

With a couple.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I feel like,

I don't know, like, I'm always worried to like talk to somebody when it's going to be for more than 15 minutes because it could go.

No, this is great.

We talked for a while.

I feel like we did pretty good.

You know,

I didn't even, you know, I only had to spritz three times.

All right.

Well,

it was a great deal of emotional fun talking to you.

Yeah.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Right?

It got to a pretty place.

Got

pretty heavy.

Somebody saw Moya streaming on Max.

Hang out for a minute, folks.

Okay, as I mentioned, I just did my HBO special taping at the Bam Harvey Theater in Brooklyn.

And 10 years ago this month, I was at the Bam Opera House to record a live episode with Fresh Airs Terry Gross.

So you knew how to have fun?

That's a good question.

Do I know how to have fun?

Did you then?

And do you now?

Sure.

Let's expand it.

Yeah, it's not my,

it's not probably what I'm most famous for.

You know, I'm probably, you know, in some ways better at working than I am at like relaxing.

Right.

But do you know how to have fun?

Yeah, but maybe.

What do you do for...

For fun?

I go to the movies, go to concerts.

How are you listening?

I listen to you.

Oh, you do listen to me?

Thank you.

I listen to you a lot.

I think you're wonderful.

I listen to your podcast.

I watch your show.

I love your comedy album.

No, I think you're wonderful.

I'm so glad for this opportunity

to talk with you.

I'm flattered and humbled.

And can I get a chance to ask you a question?

In a minute.

In a minute.

I know how that goes.

I'm trying to hold the line, Terry.

These are professional boundaries.

I'm the questioner.

Okay.

Okay.

But like, I'm sort of a, so how are you with Joy?

Do you, how, do you exp?

I'm asking this because this is all I know.

Look, you know, we do, you know, I came, I became an interviewer for reasons that had nothing to do with interviewing.

I ended up there.

And, you know, I know what my emotional, why I do it and how I ended up here.

So like right now, personally, I'm wrestling with, and I don't know if you feel this way, you call it, you say you work all the time, but you talk to people professionally.

And you elicit things from them and you you you you draw people out and and for the reason you said before is to you know make lives better by by kind of letting people tell who they are but do you get something out of that emotionally because i find in my life that i'm capable of a almost deeper intimacy with

that was the question i was going to ask you well i'm asking you first okay

yes

That's one of our greatest episodes, and you can listen to it for free on whatever podcast platform you're using.

It's episode 604 with Terry Gross.

To get every episode of WTF Ad-Free, sign up for WTF Plus.

Just go to the link in the episode description and go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.

And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST.

This guitar, I tried to lay down a track.

It got a little confusing somewhere about a third of the way through, but I like it.

All right.

Okay.

Boomer lives, monkey and lafonda, cat angels everywhere.