Atlantic War: Norwegian Interlude (Part 2)

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Speaker 1 At the beginning of the war, we had 57 U-boats. To this total, we added 28 new boats commissioned during the first year of hostilities.
In the same period, 28 boats were lost.

Speaker 1 With the results that our U-boat strength on the 1st of September 1940 stood once more at 57, the same figure as that with which we had started.

Speaker 1 Of the 57 boats available on September 1st, 1939, 39 were operational. Of these, up to July 1940, on average, 12 were simultaneously engaged in operations against the enemy.

Speaker 1 Assuming that half the time of any given patrol was spent in reaching and returning from the patrol area, this meant that up to July 1940, on an average, there were only six U-boats simultaneously in the immediate theater of operations.

Speaker 1 And it was these boats, six at the time, which waged the war against Britain.

Speaker 1 And that was, of course, Admiral Carl Dernitz summing up his not exactly ideal state of affairs in the Atlantic War in 1940.

Speaker 1 Welcome to We Have Ways of Making You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland and episode two of our Atlantic War series, in which we're trying to get through the first phase of the Atlantic War without taking anything below the waterline and sinking.

Speaker 1 Isn't that right, Jim?

Speaker 3 It absolutely is. Yeah.
I mean, it's an extraordinary paragraph, that, isn't it? Because it really does underlie

Speaker 3 just how few U-boats there are at this absolutely most critical of moments. I mean, the time to strike is at the beginning.

Speaker 3 You know, just imagine what 100 operational U-boats would have done in the Atlantic.

Speaker 3 You know, when Britain is uncertain, doesn't have its allies in place, and particularly after what follows in May and June 1940 on the continent, and, you know, where people are kind of worrying about, you know, can Britain hold on and stuff, you know, and it's all a bit, you know, Halifax is having his spat with Churchill and the beginning of, you know, the end of May 1940 and all the rest of it.

Speaker 3 Just imagine if there'd been absolute carnage in the seas.

Speaker 1 The thing about German strategy is it's made up as it goes along, always chopping and changing. They never stick to anything, do they?

Speaker 1 So, their real problem is, even if you've decided on one thing, another thing is going to be what happens, right? Clan Z is signed off and abandoned.

Speaker 3 Literally, less than a year later.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 It's announced in October 1938, abandoned in September 1939. So, the Z plan lost for 11 months.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 So, anyway, at the end of the last episode, we left things with the Royal Navy having had a success against the Kraft Spee in the Battle of the River Plate, but however, having lost courageous and of the absolutely ghastly business of preen in his u-boat getting into scapper flow and showing great vulnerability actually the royal navy it's a prop it's a proper prestige blow on the balance sheet doesn't really matter right but these things do matter these things do count particularly at this stage of the war where britain has got to display competence against its uh adversary And the Germans, they look rather good at this U-boat business, and it's quite clearly a threat.

Speaker 1 So that's where we left you at the end of the last episode. Where are we as 1940 gets going, Jim? In January.

Speaker 3 Well, one of the the supply ship for the Altmark, because you have to remember that these pocket battleships and cruisers and what have you, they need supplying because they don't have any overseas bases.

Speaker 3 So the supply ships have to come with them. And one of them is the Altmark, who has managed to make it all the way back over kind of north of Iceland from the South Atlantic in January.
And is

Speaker 3 caught near Trondheim on the Norwegian coast. It's boarded by sailors from the destroyer HMS Cossack and found to be armed and holding 299 prisoners of war.

Speaker 3 So it's an infringement of Norwegian neutrality, but the Americans don't care about that and certainly nor do the British and frankly nor do the Norwegians really. So they get away with it.

Speaker 3 So everyone's starting to infringe upon these pre-war agreements of neutrality and, you know, conditions on which you stop merchant vessels and all the rest of it.

Speaker 3 But think what would have happened if you'd had a few more 300 U-boats and 20,000 personnel. I mean, obviously, you know, it's impossible to know because Britain still has 12,500 merchant vessels.

Speaker 3 And at any one time, on any hour, on any given day, there are about 2,000 merchant vessels sailing the globe on behalf of the British or under British flag. That's a lot.

Speaker 3 And that's a lot for U-boats to defeat. But I think the loss of the Courageous, the loss of

Speaker 3 the Royal Oak is really, really interesting.

Speaker 3 And I think what what is also interesting is that this surface force that the Kriegsmarine has developed, which is a fraction of the scale of the Royal Navy's surface force, is designed to attack merchant vessels.

Speaker 3 But actually, what if the U-boats had been given the task of attacking capital ships and warships rather than merchant vessels? The focus is all about cutting the sea lines with insufficient forces.

Speaker 3 Rather than thinking, okay, we've got insufficient forces, so how can we best use these to our greatest advantage and make sure that when we do attack merchant vessels, we're doing it with the greatest of ease?

Speaker 3 Well, clearly, the way to do that is to destroy the warships that are going to protect those ships.

Speaker 1 Well, sink as many aircraft carriers as you possibly can. I mean, they start in the right place with Courageous.
Deal with the anti-submarine assets.

Speaker 3 How about this for a plan? You get all your U-boats together in the North Sea. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Between Norfolk and Iceland, all around there, Shetland, Orkneys, and all the rest of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 You get them all ready, you get them in a line, and you send out the Admiral Scheer or the Prince Eugen or whatever it is, or the Admiral Hipper, and you send them out as bait.

Speaker 3 Out come all the warships straight into the U-boat line.

Speaker 1 Wow, that way. I mean, I could see that working.

Speaker 3 Do you think of this plan?

Speaker 3 Of course not, Jay. No, sir.

Speaker 1 No, there's a wolf pack. There's a wolf pack to be getting on with, isn't there? This is the thing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and I thought it'd be fun to kind of, in this series, and in future series, when we go back to return to

Speaker 3 the Atlantic War, it'd be interesting to follow a handful of characters. And one of the characters I want us to follow follow is Teddy Surin.

Speaker 3 He's a fascinating fellow, has an incredible career in the U-boat arm, but obviously he is at the beginning of his career in 1939, 1940.

Speaker 3 And at this time, he is 1WO, the first watch officer, which is basically second in command, the equivalent of the British number one or XO in American terms on the U-48.

Speaker 3 It has to be borne in mind that nine U-boats have been lost by the end of 1939, so that's quite a lot. You know, all of these are men who have been skippered.

Speaker 3 You know, these are all boats that have been skippered by men of long experience. They're all over the age of 25.
They're very, very hard to replace quickly. But U-48 is still going strong.

Speaker 3 And this is commanded by Capitaine Leitnant Herbert Schulze, who's been skippering this particular vessel since April 1939.

Speaker 3 It's part of the now renamed Snorting Bulls 7th Flotilla of U-47 and fame and all the rest of it. And U-48 has had a pretty good start.
It's sunk 12 merchant vessels by the end of 1939.

Speaker 3 And Teddy Surin

Speaker 3 is the second in command. You know, he's only 23 years old.
He's really called Reinhardt, but everyone's always known him as Teddy.

Speaker 3 You'd also have the other officers you'd have on these U-boat Mark VIIs. He'd be a second watch officer and the LI, who's the engineering officer.

Speaker 3 Surin has joined the Kriegsmarine in 1935, but the BDU, the Befell Schaber de U-Buten, only in 1938. But, you know, he's another of these guys.
He's absolutely born to the sea.

Speaker 3 He's grown up with Hanseatic yachting school. He absolutely loves sailing.
He loves the sea in the Navy. He's smart.
He's competent. He's imperturbable.
He's got a terrific sense of humor.

Speaker 3 He absolutely, totally imbued with the sense that your boat is a band of brothers and you're all in it together. He completely gets all that.

Speaker 3 Loves the camaraderie of being around like-minded blokes and is aware by the beginning of 1940 that already the sea, the war at sea is becoming a little bit tougher.

Speaker 3 You know, the convoy systems made it harder to strike ships. The merchant vessels are now armed.
The winter is absolutely brutal. And of course, he's starting to lose friends as well.

Speaker 3 You know, and this is the point about the BDU. It's such a small force that everybody knows everybody.

Speaker 3 And I think it's really important to understand that for merchant vessels and in our mind's eye, U-boats are dark, sleek, stealthy killers.

Speaker 3 But for the crews, they're claustrophobic, they're damp, they're stinking, fetid tin cans, and of course they're potential death traps.

Speaker 3 And, you know, Surin, for example, loses one of his best mates when U-41 is sunk on the 5th of February. And 14th of February, off the coast of Ireland towards the Bristol Channel.

Speaker 3 They surface, it's early morning fog, and suddenly the outlines of ships are looming in front of them.

Speaker 1 And so, it's alarm-alarm, our first alarm, alarm moment of this episode. It's a convoy heading straight for them.
They dive. They dive immediately, but only just below the surface.

Speaker 1 Small crew, so everyone has a very specific delineated role. Schulze is the skipper, he's in the conning tower of the periscope.
Suhin's below in the control room.

Speaker 1 Leitn Zern is the engineering officer of the LI. He's on the trim.
The captain makes every decision in the attack. When to fire, what angle, when to dive.

Speaker 1 And Soren is at the torpedo attack computer, the TDC, which is the thing calculating the offset of the shot and all this sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 And he's waiting and he's listening to the captain's instructions. Obviously, it's quiet on the boat.
Everyone's concentrating.

Speaker 1 Schulz angles the boat to 180 degrees and warns everyone that in five minutes they need to be ready to fire. Soren says, Marchens of Ev Escorts.
Schulze replies, enough. Five minutes pass.
Schulzer.

Speaker 1 Tubes one to four, stand by. Tube one, fire.
Tube two, fire. Three, fire.
Four, fire. So they off all four torpedoes go and then they wait.
Torpedoes swim away from them, counting on a stopwatch.

Speaker 1 Because they know how fast they go. They do 30 knots once they're up and running.
So they know the distances. It's 1800 meter distance.
That's 120 seconds, two minutes on the stopwatch.

Speaker 1 Everyone just absolutely tense, waiting to hear the result of the firing the torpedo they're doing what they can to keep the the sub at the periscope depth yeah that is really really difficult because you've got to keep it below the surface but you know if it's slightly choppy you're being moved around all over the place yeah but there's a thud a dull thud they've hit schultz orders to turn to starboard they've struck the ss sultan star which is a an 11 300 ton freighter full of argentinian beef Just the sort of thing you need to be striking.

Speaker 1 They've been spotted by an escort, though. Schultz orders a deep dive.
Two more explosions. Two more torpedoes have hit.

Speaker 1 U-48 is creaking and groaning as she dives as the pressure ratchets up on the boat's iron hull. Interesting, they get 120 meters.
There's a fuselage of eighth depth charges really, really close.

Speaker 1 She bounces about, lurches and rolls. They can hear the ping of the ASDIC and the low

Speaker 1 of propellers, of screws above them.

Speaker 3 Our sound effects department's good today, isn't it?

Speaker 1 They're explosions.

Speaker 1 The thud of the depth charges.

Speaker 1 All around you. The explosions of the dep charges.
Water starts coming in. And Sun takes the hydrophone for the radio operator.
And you can hear the convoy disappearing.

Speaker 1 But then the really overwhelming sound of the escorts looking for them. Which sound like a nail being drawn across a plate.
I won't attempt that one. More depth charges.
There's another explosion.

Speaker 1 She's rocked again. Then five more in quick succession.
But somehow... U-48 remains in one piece.
They haven't actually, they haven't split her hull.

Speaker 3 Not yet. And so drops a little further.

Speaker 3 more depth charges and explosions they seem to be getting closer and for u48 is creaking and groaning once again they go down to 135 meters which is as deep as they can go suddenly you know they're on the seabed and they they reckon they're now on the coburn bank um and another destroyer is raking over them the ping of asdic is quite audible more depth charges ping whang ping wham uh the u48 is rolling and that wasn't very good was it and and tossed off the seabed and thumped back down again and sun says we can scarcely stay on our feet.

Speaker 3 We look for a handhold and hang on wherever we can. I mean, you can just imagine all these men kind of sort of staring around.
You know, you would stare at the ceiling, wouldn't you?

Speaker 3 But of course, you can't see anything but dials. And oh my goodness, I mean, it's so tense, and no one is daring to speak.
And no one's barely breathing.

Speaker 3 And more attacks, an hour passes, then another, and there's still no let-up from the escorts.

Speaker 3 And, you know, they've attacked the merchant ship at around 7 a.m., but they're still being attacked at midday.

Speaker 3 And Surin calculates that depth charges falling at four meters per second and explosions after 28 seconds. So they're detonating at around 110, 120 meters.
So only 15 to 25 meters above them.

Speaker 3 And Schulzer wonders whether they should release some oil, but Surin urges him not to. He says, much better to just play dead instead.
They stay there all afternoon. I mean, can you believe it?

Speaker 3 So last furry of depth charges, eight of them at 8 p.m.

Speaker 1 So this has been going on literally all day. 13 hours of this being harried.
Finally, the destroyers call it off. They wait another half hour when their pumps start up.

Speaker 1 It's with a high-pitched humming that Soren can't bear. Because after all,

Speaker 1 noise is everything. They'll give themselves away.
They slowly lift up off the seabed. They begin moving forward and gently climbing.
They eventually break the surface.

Speaker 1 They open the hatch, go onto the bridge of the Conning Tower. Soren feels his eardrums throb with the change in air pressure and the tension and the noise and

Speaker 1 the whole thing. To their horror, they find themselves surrounded by bright lights.
They're encircled by 20 fishing boats boats off Coburn Bank. But it's night.
There's nothing stirring.

Speaker 1 They half submerge. They'd use the electric motors to toddle away in Isk, and they do escape.
Or do they? They're just clear. They spot more merchant vessels.
They immediately start firing.

Speaker 1 They sink another. 100 seconds after firing that salvo.
Schulze says, there you are, Søren, attacking again and getting a hit as the best medicine. I mean, these guys...

Speaker 3 They're rock hard, aren't they?

Speaker 1 Well, you know, and this is the thing. When we were talking about the British U-boat effort in the Med, you think how motivated you have to be to do this kind of fighting, right?

Speaker 1 So all those Royal Navy chaps, it was all about sort of phlegm, wasn't it? And it was all about imperturbability and obviously for the Royal Navy of King Country and all that sort of stuff, right?

Speaker 1 It's how you'd expect them to express themselves, right? No one spinning a line on themselves and all that sort of thing. What's motivating these guys?

Speaker 1 These are guys that are very dedicated to the Kriegsmarine, to the U-boat service, to the Third Reich.

Speaker 3 It's their Brotherhood, man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it? Because this is so awful as a way of life. You've got to really want to do it, and you've got to really believe in why you're doing it, haven't you? Yeah, and

Speaker 3 you're living for your crews, you're living for your crew, and you're living for the kind of getting back off patrol, aren't you? And you're living for the excitement. It's a cut and chase.

Speaker 3 It's just the adrenaline surge of it.

Speaker 1 All the moral baggage of sinking merchant vessels, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, you're not thinking about that. I mean, do you remember we had Tubby Crawford? I said, you know, how did you feel about killing all these people?

Speaker 3 And he said, well, you know, know, you do feel about it, but, but it's war.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know, but isn't that interesting that submarine crews, and it's like bomber crews attacking cities, right?

Speaker 1 You've got to be able to make that moral distinction that it's part of a bigger war effort. And there we are.
You're not shooting at other lads in uniform is my point.

Speaker 1 You're into that bit of grey area of the war, aren't you, with this campaign?

Speaker 3 Yeah, you are. And I think, you know, I mean, do you remember when,

Speaker 3 you know, Toby Crawford said that, you know, after sinking of the Conte Rosso or one of it, you know, there was a faint flicker of a smile from Wanklin.

Speaker 3 You know, there's not a huge amount of difference between Schultz as there you are, Suriname attacking again and getting a hit are the best medicine. It's cut from the same cloth, aren't they? Really?

Speaker 3 They are, really, yeah. But, you know, the bottom line is this.
The most there are operational in the Atlantic at any one time are 10 U-boats. Atlanta's a big old place.
It's not very many.

Speaker 3 They sink 56 merchant vessels, but lose three of their own. So only seven of those survive.

Speaker 3 Dernitz has been working on the assumption that his U-boats need to sink half a million tons of Allied shipping a month to bring Britain to its knees.

Speaker 3 Now, I just want to point out that this is based on absolutely nothing. It's been plucked up there, pulled down, and this is the figure.

Speaker 3 But actually, half a million tons is not going to bring Britain to its knees.

Speaker 3 That is a lot of shipping, but it isn't going to bring us to its knees. It's just a guesstimate.
But the point is, so far they're not achieving anything like that amount. Yes.

Speaker 3 For all the pain that's being caused, they're not getting close.

Speaker 3 What's more, the Atlantic War is about to take an enforced break because on the 4th of March, just as Dernitz is preparing to send all his wolfbacks out into the Atlantic again he was ordered to stop all further sailings and instead they're told to head to Norway.

Speaker 1 So this is far from ideal. Dernitz isn't happy about this of course because this isn't a good thing.
Dernitz isn't happy the crews aren't happy.

Speaker 1 Eric Topp, for instance, is the first watch officer on U46. His best mate is Engelbert Endras, who's also a first watch officer on Preen's U47.
Topp's 25. He's volunteered for sea back in 1934.

Speaker 1 He's not from a naval family. He joins at the U-boat arm with Endras in 1937, and they both pass out the following year in 38, in June.
They join U-46 at the same time, same time as Endras joins U-47.

Speaker 1 But U-46 isn't having a great run. They've only sunk a couple of ships, one of the sort of runts of the U-boat litter.
Top is very bright and capable, and he writes this journal.

Speaker 1 As you say, Jim, it's a fine write.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God, he's amazing. One of the greatest bits of literature to emerge from the Second World War, which comes at his pen when he's returning from a long patrol.

Speaker 3 He writes this homage to his friend. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

Speaker 3 You know, we should get you to read it out and put it, post it on the Patreon, because it's so good. Eric Topp does not require a ghostwriter.

Speaker 3 And he keeps this diary where it's more like a journal. So it's, you know, he jots down his musings at various points.

Speaker 3 They're always very thoughtful and very considered and actually very, I have to say, humane for the most part.

Speaker 1 But it points to the nub of the problem of, of what he thinks is the problem of deploying U-boats to Norway.

Speaker 1 A submarine is designed to be a commerce raider and requires vast areas of sea space to be effective.

Speaker 1 Deploying U-boats in Norway's narrow fjords, however, went against all experience and common sense.

Speaker 1 There are perfectly good reasons for the Germans that make excellent sense, actually, which is the iron ore supply line from northern Sweden and also to stop the Allies taking a foothold in northern Europe.

Speaker 3 It's plus one, minus one thing again, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 And Norway remains very much on Hitler's mind for the rest of the war, to the point where he's convinced to station hundreds of thousands of soldiers there who twiddle their thumbs while the war plays itself out in Northwest Europe.

Speaker 1 Hitler, ideally, and again, here we go, here's a strategy that's cogent one minute, ditch the next.

Speaker 1 Actually, what Hitler really wants to do is keep Norway and Sweden neutral, but Rader convinces him otherwise to invade and conquer Admiral Rader.

Speaker 1 And the sinking of the Altmark accelerates this change in the planning.

Speaker 3 Do you think the Führer is happy when he hears the news about the Altmark?

Speaker 1 I'm going to go no.

Speaker 3 Do you think the Führer goes into a rage?

Speaker 1 I'm going to go yes.

Speaker 3 And do you think that Hitler then decides that what he really needs to do is invade Norway?

Speaker 1 Yes. I'm going with that.
Yes. I'm also going to say, Jim, coming back at you, do you think he's going to want to do a twofer one, a twofer, and scoop up Denmark as well?

Speaker 3 Knowing Hitler as I do.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So Operation Weser Weiserübeng. And this is a classic.
He decides he wants to invade Denmark and Norway, so they have to plan an operation, but they haven't fixed a date.

Speaker 1 It's the absolute classic Hitler planning, isn't it?

Speaker 3 When are we going to do this, boss? Oh, I don't know, whatever.

Speaker 1 but this tumble of events that changes mind that literally making up as he goes along and other people having to keep up with him make up as he goes along but then goering's forschung sumpt which is his um intelligence service they pick up finished diplomatic traffic his own private intelligence service um he they realize that that from finnish diplomatic traffic that the allies are going to mine the shipping lanes and so it's announced on the 2nd of april that we ese rubung will go ahead at uh 5 15 a.m on the 9th of april so that as ever they've got a week to stand up and go.

Speaker 3 And by the way, can I just say that we will be doing Weser Blümen at some point?

Speaker 1 At some point, yeah, exactly. So, off they go.
The Germans set sail on the 7th of April. They're spotted by the Allies immediately.

Speaker 1 30 Allied bombers, REF bombers, attack the naval groups heading for Trondheim. But it's early in the bombing war, so what do they do? They miss.

Speaker 1 That same evening, Admiral Sir Charles Forbes, Commander-Chief of the Home Fleet, he puts his ships to sea.

Speaker 1 Destroyers and mine layers are already in Norwegian waters, but they're planning for the planned mining of the Leeds, which is at the mouth of the Vestfjord, the gateway to Narvik, and a bit further south at Alesund.

Speaker 3 This is part of the Allies' strategy, which Churchill has first suggested back in September 1939. The French and the British governments can't agree on this.
French are really nervous about it.

Speaker 3 They don't want to provoke the Germans or the rest of it. So the decision isn't finally made until

Speaker 3 this point in the war.

Speaker 3 So the idea is to, if you if you mine the Leeds, the Leeds are the fjords which lead through northern Norway and lead to a railhead, a port and a railhead through which the Swedish iron ore fields then take their loads, put them onto ships, sail through the fjords and come back down again.

Speaker 3 So the problem is that both Sweden and Norway are neutral. So if you mine Norwegian waters, you're effectively acting very aggressively against them.

Speaker 3 But this is to prevent the Germans from successfully getting their iron ore down to Germany and down the Norwegian coast. So this is the whole point of this.

Speaker 3 And the reason everyone's been deliberating it is because to do so is going against Norwegian neutrality. But anyway, they finally agree it.

Speaker 3 But at this point, so this is they are there to finally do this mine-laying operation when Wezergrubung is launched. So sorry, I should have added that little background.

Speaker 1 Yes, but from the Royal Navy's point of view, it's a happy coincidence that they happen to be in town when the Germans are going to show up

Speaker 1 is what I mean. So yes, you are sending the home fleet, but you've already got a presence there anyway.

Speaker 1 I think what's interesting about this, though, this is this is the aggressive spirit that Churchill has brought very much to the Royal Navy.

Speaker 3 The Chamberlain government, they're not quite sure.

Speaker 1 And the British and French governments at this point, they've considered entering the war on Finland's behalf, helping the Finns out against the Soviet Union.

Speaker 1 They basically chicken out of that. There's a roll of your counterfactual dice.

Speaker 1 And I think what's, I mean, obviously what's interesting about this is in the end, this entire, this entire entire debacle results in Churchill becoming Prime Minister because of his taste for aggression, because he's determined to fight the war rather than try and trim.

Speaker 3 I think there's a really strong case for doing it in September 1939, but there isn't one by April. That's the point.

Speaker 1 Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 You know, if you're going to do it, be decisive and do it.

Speaker 1 But don't faff around. Admiral Forbes orders the home fleet to try and bring German capital ships to battle.
Churchill,

Speaker 1 in the meantime, without consultation, has ordered four cruisers at Rossyth, packed with troops, to disembark them and then ahead with full speed to seek battle as well.

Speaker 1 So Churchill isn't talking to Forbes about what he's got planned.

Speaker 1 And there's a proper clash.

Speaker 1 The following morning,

Speaker 1 the 8th of April, the destroyer HMS Glowworm intercepts the German heavy cruiser, the Admiral Hipper, commanded by Kipeten Hayer.

Speaker 3 Of the aforementioned Hayer, the guy who's prepared the pre-war strategy.

Speaker 1 Glowworm is part of the Vestfjord force that's been left behind, though, to look for a sailor lost overboard.

Speaker 1 To start with, Glowworm thinks, well, we'll get out of here, but then thinks, no, we're forced to fight. Hit repeatedly.
but keeps firing back. And this is a real...

Speaker 1 There are some real, the finest traditions of the Royal Navy stuff coming, ladies and gentlemen, by the way. She's hit repeatedly, but keeps firing back with her decks on fire.

Speaker 1 Skipper, Lieutenant Commander Gerard Rup, gives the order to ram the Admiral Hipper. God save the King, Jim! Glowworm goes down.

Speaker 1 She rolls over, she blows up and sinks, killing all but thirty-eight of the crew. And Ruper posthumously wins the Victoria Cross.
But there you go.

Speaker 1 I mean, if you want purest traditions, Nelsonian traditions of the Royal Navy, there it is. There you go.

Speaker 3 Ramming a heavy cruiser, yeah.

Speaker 1 Come on. Meanwhile, the battlecruiser HMS Renown and nine destroyers are ordered to prevent the German ships reaching Narvik.

Speaker 1 Bad weather, so it's not until the next morning, the 9th of April, that German battlecruisers, the Gneisenau and the Scharnhorst, and that destroyer force are spotted.

Speaker 1 Both starts shelling each other, slugging out, and despite the swell and the weight of Raw Navy fire, the Germans,

Speaker 1 they're basically convinced they're facing a stronger opposition than they really were. And Gneisenau's main fire support system is destroyed.
So the Germans sack it off. Meanwhile,

Speaker 3 this is amazing. This is just ridiculous.

Speaker 3 So the German heavy cruiser, this is a heavy cruiser okay so this is like the scharnhorst okay that is the scale you're talking about this is one of their very precious heavy cruisers i think they have four heavy cruisers in there and two battleships which are still not complete the tirpits and the and the and the bismarck so this is you know the blucher is one of their big guys this is more valuable to them than the royal oak is to the royal navy because i haven't got enough of them it's commissioned in september 1939 and is one oh it's one of only five in the kriegsmarine it's sailing down the oslo fjord when it's hit by batteries on an island in the middle of the fjord at almost point blank range and i've been here and i've seen that you can still see bits of the bluker on the side of the side of the oslo fjord and when i was sailing down the oslo fjord last year i looked at this and i just thought what on earth were they thinking yeah i mean it's one thing firing you know being hit by a lucky shot at 13 miles it's quite another being hit at 200 yards i mean seriously this is absolutely nuts you know so so it is totally bonkers that the bluker has been there it's hit at 7 23 a.m and it sinks.

Speaker 3 You know, 300 of the crew are killed in action out of 1,600. And another cruiser, the Lutzo, is also badly damaged.
So, you know, they are taking some serious hits. You've had a chunk of the Neisenau.

Speaker 3 Neisenau has been hit. The Admiral Hipper has lost 40 meters.
Yeah, so the Admiral Hipper's lost 40 meters. The Neisnau's had its firing gear knocked out.

Speaker 3 The Blücher's been sunk completely, one of five heavy cruisers. This isn't great.
I mean, Feter Ruben, which we will come to in due course on this podcast, is a great success for Germans on land.

Speaker 3 You know, Denmark swiftly capitulates, of course, and German troops, both from ships and from Fauschmjäger from the air, as well as heavy support from the Luftwaffe, you know, that means they can take Oslo very quickly and they kind of surge northwards up through the Central Valley and go through Lillehammer and all the rest of it.

Speaker 3 But at sea it is an entirely different matter. And on the 10th of April, the German naval forces are surprised at Narvik.

Speaker 3 And at 5.30am on the 10th of April, a British destroyer, HMS Hardy, is unleashes torpedoes and blows up the German flagship, the Wilhelm Heidkamp.

Speaker 3 So this is in the fjord, the Vestfjord running into Narvik, because these ports on the Norwegian, the western Norwegian coast, they're not on the absolute facing the ocean.

Speaker 3 They're not facing the North Sea. They're down these little narrow inlets that run roughly kind of sort of west to east.

Speaker 3 They blow up the German flagship, the Wilhelm Heidkamp, killing 81, including the force commander. Another German ship is hit and set on fire.

Speaker 3 And then as more Royal Navy destroyers arrive, a second German destroyer is sunk. And the action continues down the Vestfjord.

Speaker 3 Hardy is sunk in turn, but a German supply ship with all the Geberg Jägers guns are sunk. So, this is, you know, General Dietel's mountain troops, which are being sent to Narvik.

Speaker 3 So, they've lost all their guns. And over the next two days, the Royal Navy continues to get the better of the Kriegsmarine.

Speaker 3 Five of the remaining German destroyers are trapped at Narvik, and three days later, Warspike turns up, which is a battleship, of course, and nine Kriegsmarine destroyers are sent to the bottom.

Speaker 3 You know, when you've only got 30 odd in the first place, that's a blow.

Speaker 1 This is why Sea Lion, these encounters are why Sea Lion is a bad bet on any level, because after all, the Kriegsmarine has had a real, taken a real kicking in Norway.

Speaker 1 And not only that, will take a further real kicking. Look at the way the Royal Navy is determined to deal with the Kriegsmarine if it comes to it.
This is in

Speaker 1 a battle that the Navy has chosen in Norway rather than an existential fight in the English Channel or the North Sea,

Speaker 1 whatever would have come with Sea Lion.

Speaker 1 When you're considering the counterfaction of Sea Lion, look at the way the Royal Navy dispatches the Kriegsmarine and also commits to dealing with the Kriegsmarine in Norway.

Speaker 1 I think that's the, this is the sort of Battle of Britain elephant in the room, is what happens in April in Norway. The Germans know this perfectly well because they've taken an absolute kicking.

Speaker 1 Nine destroyers sunk with that encounter with Warspy. It's incredible.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And they do have opportunities to get their own back with their U-boats, but of course the U-boats are operating in these incredibly narrow confines of the fjords.

Speaker 3 And this is not the place to operate with U-boats. You know, Eric Topp is quite right about that.
And he is in U-46 still. And U-48 with Schulze and Teddy Surin, they're at the mouth of Fjord.

Speaker 3 U-47 with Gunter Preen also joins them, but none of them sink a single ship because they've got really dodgy torpedoes.

Speaker 3 All the magnetic pistols, which are the detonation devices, they're all duff and so don't work. U-46 never gets a chance to fire.
It's a completely unlucky U-boat. It just can't get its mojo at all.

Speaker 3 They're repeatedly bombed and death charged. U-46 spends a week between the 10th and the 18th of April dodging attacks.
and they're completely impotent.

Speaker 3 But the Royal Navy and the RAF are able to take the toll on the Germany's surface fleet. So the cruiser Koenigsberg is also sunk and so too the Karlsruhe.

Speaker 3 So after the Lützow hit on the 11th of April, that has to be towed back to Kiel.

Speaker 3 So by the end of the Norwegian campaign, half the German destroyer force has been sunk, as were one of two heavy cruisers, two of six light cruisers, and six U-boats.

Speaker 3 So, you know, the others have been badly damaged, leaving the Kriegsmarina much depleted. And on top of this, the Luftwaffe has also lost 242 aircraft in the campaign.

Speaker 3 So it's not an insignificant amount. But, you know, there's no getting away from it.
It's a complete crushing of the Allies on land.

Speaker 1 In terms of other assets, a disaster. I mean, that's a disaster for the Kriegsmarina.
No two ways about it.

Speaker 1 What we'll do is we'll take a quick break and we'll come back to further disaster on land, which will have ramifications on sea. See you in a tick.

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Speaker 1 Welcome back to We Have Ways of Making You Talk. I mean, that epic battle in Norway, the Royal Navy, absolutely.
Why is that not a thing that's up there with Cape Matapan and all that?

Speaker 1 Is it simply, you know, ABC is better at publicity?

Speaker 3 No, no, no, it's not that at all. It's because it's overshadowed by the catastrophic defeat in Norway.

Speaker 3 That's the truth of it. And there's no hiding that, except that, you know, Britain's a maritime power and, you know, that's where its strength lies and that's where its strength is going to be.

Speaker 3 And in the all-important Battle of the Atlantic, these early signs that the German, the Kriegsmarine surface fleet is not all that it cracked up to be when they put most of their eggs in that particular basket, I would say, augurs pretty well.

Speaker 1 But very, very often when we've talked about Germany and its understanding of naval warfare, you say, well, they're land lovers, of course, so they're never going to be good at it.

Speaker 1 But you could flip that and say that the reason the British are bad at land warfare is because we're a naval power. So like, of course we're going to be bad at it.

Speaker 3 I think what one has to remember about Norway, just very briefly while we're on this subject, is that Norway is, you know, the main effort of the regular British army is in France.

Speaker 3 Okay, there was no intention whatsoever to ever send troops to Norway until the last minute. Suddenly, you're having to get all those fifth battalions.

Speaker 3 And the fifth battalions are the TA battalions, which have only been called up in August. So they're now regular soldiers, but they're not your top draw.
They're your weekend soldiers.

Speaker 3 And suddenly they're in Norway.

Speaker 3 And one of the problems is in the haste of getting all their shipping together to send this expeditionary force, they made an absolute schoolboy error of putting too much in one ship.

Speaker 3 So, you know, all the guns are in one ship. And And that was because of speed, the need for speed.
So you put all your artillery in one ship, off you go.

Speaker 3 But the trouble is if that then gets sunk en route, you're in a spot of bomber, which is what happened.

Speaker 3 So the British in Norway end up going there with insufficient firepower and without enough REF support. So it's not like their individual soldiers are too bad.

Speaker 3 If anyone wants to find out a little bit more before we get to a series, by the way, there's an absolutely fantastic novel called The Odin Mission, which is the first of a Jack Tanner series.

Speaker 3 It's all about the battle in Norway.

Speaker 3 And a rip-snorting yarn it is too.

Speaker 1 I don't doubt that for a moment, Rob.

Speaker 3 Everything you need to know in fictional form.

Speaker 3 Or fictionalised form, I should say. But anyway, we're not here to talk about campaigns.
That's for later. We want to talk about Britain's naval glories.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but after Norway, the fall of France. And this is the thing, is there's suddenly this tumult and tumble of events that follow.

Speaker 1 And the other reason this naval encounter may fall into sort of the overlooked file is because of what's to come immediately immediately after it, which is the sudden collapse of the Netherlands, of Belgium, and ultimately of France.

Speaker 1 But what you also have at the same time is an evacuation from Norway. 24,000 British and French troops need extracting from Narvik.
Not a small number.

Speaker 1 And they do this without the Germans knowing it's even happening. And yet again, the Kriegsmarine is late to the party there, or doesn't even realize there is a party.
I think it's fair to say.

Speaker 1 Raider eventually sending a naval force to block Narvik, but it doesn't work. I think what's really interesting though is what is left of the Kriegsmarine after this encounter?

Speaker 1 And their active surface fleet is what, Jim? Go!

Speaker 3 It is now only one out of two heavy cruisers, four destroyers, two S-boats, full stop, plus a few U-boats, of course, but that's it. Scharnhorse and destroyers are en route when the Karavs...

Speaker 3 I mean, this is a bad moment because the Scharnhorse and these destroyers are en route to Narvik when they spot HMS Glorious ship that's converted into an aircraft carrier, and you know, since April, naval engagements had all but stopped in the North Sea, so the Glorious is sort of steaming back to Scupper Flow at a sort of leisurely seventeen knots with no aircraft armed or ready and not expecting to hit anything, and suddenly runs straight into the path of the Scharnhorst, you know, which fires its 11-inch guns and absolutely pummels it.

Speaker 3 The flight deck is smashed, the whole ship goes up in flames. The destroyers and HMS Ardent and Acosta surge forward through their own smokescreen.

Speaker 3 Ardent launches eight torpedoes before being pummeled and sunk. And the Acosta then managed to get a torpedo into the side of the Sharnhorst.

Speaker 3 So the blast kills 48 of the Sharnhorst crew and reduces their speed to 20 knots. Glorious is ablaze and sinks soon after, as does Acosta.

Speaker 3 But the Destroyer's attacks have put their only heavy battlecruiser out of action. I mean, it's terrible for the British because out of those three ships, only 40 men from 1,559 crew survive.

Speaker 3 I mean, it's another baddie. There's no getting away from it.
But the Scharnhorst is out of action again.

Speaker 3 Limps back to Trondheim, repeatedly bombed by the RAF and Fleet Air Arm, but of course, you know, they all miss apart from one bomb, which doesn't do an awful lot of damage.

Speaker 3 Eventually heads back to Germany on the 21st of June. Again, it's attacked by Swordfish and Boforts, but they're driven off.

Speaker 3 Reaches Stavangar and then to Kiel, but it's out of action for the next six months. The Nysenau is also hit by the torpedo on the 20th of June from a British submarine.

Speaker 3 Also limps back to Kiel, where again it remains for the rest of the year. So that's the surface fleet gone, effectively.

Speaker 1 It's pretty much out of action it is striking in these naval encounters isn't it how you will have a set of circumstances where only 40 men of 1600 survive when things go wrong in the open sea that's as likely to be the result as anything else isn't it I mean, even if you think about the numbers that were lost on the Royal Oak.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's very unusual when you're talking about, you know, two battalions going in, say, that's the equivalent of number, men in infantry uniform, that only 40 would survive from an attack put in by 1600 men, isn't it?

Speaker 1 You know, the way the butcher's bill works at sea is really very dramatic, isn't it? And what that must mean if you're on a ship.

Speaker 3 And sudden and brutal. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, as you say, Glorious is just toddling along.
They're thinking nothing of it. And suddenly, under Sharn Aust's guns, it's a shocking thing.

Speaker 3 When we get on to our next series, which will be on the hood and the Bismarck, there'll be plenty of opportunity to go into this particular point in greater depth because that's exactly what happens.

Speaker 3 And, you know, there's no question from, you know, testimonies of people on the Prince of Wales, which was accompanying the hood at the time, and so on, and from the three survivors of the hood, it's absolutely clear that everyone is keenly aware of the risks.

Speaker 3 Yeah. That, you know, as you are steaming into battle, you know you're going into battle.
Everyone's like, okay, you know, the countdown is on.

Speaker 3 You're getting closer and closer and closer to your enemy. You know, any minute now, the first shells are going to hurtle over.
Any one of those shells could be catastrophic.

Speaker 3 And you, as a member of the crew, are keenly aware of what that can mean.

Speaker 3 It's chilling, to put it mildly. It's also worth pointing out that the mighty Bismarck and the Mighty Tirpitz are still not complete.
You know, they are not the finished article yet.

Speaker 3 So they are not at sea. So I think there is the Admiral Hipper is still around and possibly the Shear.
But I mean,

Speaker 3 that is it. The Kriegsmarine as a surface fleet, which is...

Speaker 3 after all, the main striking arm of pre-war plans to destroy Allied and particularly British shipping in the Atlantic is Kaput for the next six months. And what a crucial six months.

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, this is the summer and autumn of 1940. You know, this is where Germany has to force Britain to its knees.

Speaker 3 Reminder of that quote that we had from Churchill in the Battle of Britain series. Hitler knows he must defeat Britain or surely lose the war.
The stakes could not be higher.

Speaker 3 And yet again, you know, you're starting to see at this early stage of the war, opportunities for the Germans that have gone begging through bad planning, Hitler accelerating entrance into war, all those sort of things.

Speaker 3 I mean, you know, no one is expecting in the summer of 1938 when the Z plan is announced that they're going to be at war the following, you know, within 11 months.

Speaker 3 You know, they're expecting to be at war in 1942 or 1943 or something like that, in which case the Z plan has a sort of, you know,

Speaker 3 the tiniest chances of coming into fruition, but not within 11 months.

Speaker 3 And suddenly, Hitler's impatience, the urgency to get Germany into war, that has absolutely put the Kraigs Marine very much on the back foot because they're not ready for this battle, which is so important for them.

Speaker 3 And that is the truth of it.

Speaker 3 And over and over again, you see the little successes they have-the Raal Oak, the illustrious, the glorious, whatever it might be-they are accentuating those successes, but covering over the enormous cracks in the entire strategy of the Kriegsmarina, and indeed the whole strategy of Nazi Germany.

Speaker 3 It's really, really important when you consider that for all the successes, the individual, like momentary successes they have, they are not really adding up to a hill of beans when it comes to bringing Britain to its knees by crushing its sea lanes.

Speaker 3 That is the problem.

Speaker 3 Anyway, there is the fall of France, and of course, and during the first nine months of the war, from September 1939 onwards, Germany makes absolutely no effort whatsoever to bomb ports in the UK.

Speaker 3 Not at all. There's no bombers going over Liverpool or Southampton or anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but that's tied up with the idea that's a red line, isn't it? That once you start bombing ports, you're bombing cities and then they might do it back to you.

Speaker 1 There's a there's a squeamishness, isn't there, about bombing what are effectively civilian targets, isn't there?

Speaker 1 Even though they're happy to sink merchant shipping, there's a feeling that, you know, you can't quite do that.

Speaker 3 Yes, I suppose so. But at the same time, I thought the whole point was that Hitler was supposed to be a ruthless bastard who didn't care about these things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but he's not, is he, though? Because, well, no, because he prevaricates and he's and he's playing politics.

Speaker 3 Because also, he's not very good.

Speaker 1 Well, there's that too.

Speaker 3 He's not very good at

Speaker 3 and he makes the wrong decision.

Speaker 1 He's not very clever.

Speaker 3 If it's all out war, it's all out war, right? Yeah. You know, and he does say, you know, so they're laying mines around the coast.

Speaker 3 And that does destroy a number of vessels.

Speaker 3 And U-boats are told from the the outset to attack without warning all ships identified as hostile well you know you can identify anything as hostile can't you you know as a merchant vessel can be identified as

Speaker 3 and so they they continue to flagrantly disregard the engagement rules so on the one hand you're squeamish about hitting a port but you're not squeamish about going against kind of you know for example the athenia on day one you know so there's sort of double standards here it's it's kind of odd but it's all odd isn't it this is the point with everything we've described so far about the nazi effort has been disjointed isn't it it's none of it adds up and also if you've you've got Dernitz trying to make his point, he's going to do what he wants, isn't he?

Speaker 1 Via his U-boat arm.

Speaker 1 The thing is, is by the fall of France, although 800,000 gross tons of shipping have been lost in the first nine months of the war, British tonnage on the register is the same as at the start of the war, essentially.

Speaker 1 There is a squeeze on how organised shipping is, but when France falls, as we've said before, you get this sudden rush of merchant vessels from the rest of the world, from the rest of Europe, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, France, etc.

Speaker 1 And this actually, this increases Britain's shipping capability capacity, increases Britain's control of shipping. You know, these ships simply sail to Britain, don't they?

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. They're dancing to Britain's tune.
And I think the interesting thing is, you know, 800,000 gross tons of shipping, you know, that in the first nine months, that sounds a lot.

Speaker 3 But do you remember that figure that Dernetz has plucked from the sky, which means absolutely nothing, but it was 500,000 tons a month? They're not even close to that.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no. So what this means is although the Germans are sinking shipping,

Speaker 1 Britain's shipping capacity has increased with the fall of France. Although the the knock-on also is that the Germans have control of the Atlantic coast, and that's a different factor.

Speaker 3 Yeah, but even so, 3rd of September...

Speaker 1 The 3rd of September, you do have 18,710,000 tons of dry cargo shipping above 1,600 tons. And after the fall of France, it's 21 million, which is a lot.

Speaker 1 So the U-boat arm is a lot to bite off, hasn't it? It's the truth, isn't it?

Speaker 3 Well, it does. And then if you think, again, you go back to that 500,000 a month, to get 21 million tons worth is...

Speaker 1 You've got to get your finger out, haven't you? But with the fall of France, as well as as you also have this issue that there's a French fleet now, who's going to take control of it?

Speaker 1 And the Italians entering the war. So the Mediterranean becomes another focus of Royal Navy effort is the thing.

Speaker 1 Because at the start of the start of the series, we said, well, you know, the Royal Navy at the start of the war is three things to worry about.

Speaker 1 The Far East, maintaining a China station, but that's all right. The Japanese aren't a threat.
The Mediterranean, but you can plug either end. And the Atlantic.
But

Speaker 1 if the French fleet falls, that changes. And if the Italians come in, which they do, it changes things also, doesn't it? This is what happens is now what's going to happen with the French fleet.

Speaker 1 And so some do defect to the Allies.

Speaker 3 You know, I mean, my own thoughts on the notorious attack on the French fleet at Murz-el-Kabir is, you know, this has to be put into some kind of context.

Speaker 3 I mean, it's always sort of made out that, you know, Britain is the bogeymen here and sort of war criminals for launching their attack on the French fleet.

Speaker 3 But there's plenty of French ships that do come over to the the British side. As French, you know, they defect into British ports from France.

Speaker 3 All the French fleet in Alexandria hand over. They go, okay, fine.
And, you know, Admiral Rentel

Speaker 3 in Merz-el-Kabir is given the choice.

Speaker 3 You know, surrender or come over on our side or get blown to pieces. You know, if I was him, I would have, you know, I, well, obviously I'd have come over onto the Allied side.

Speaker 3 But he has consigned those sailors to their deaths.

Speaker 3 Not the British. He had a choice.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 Sit out of the war in a prison camp or get killed.

Speaker 1 And a big hello to all our French listeners.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 1 I think the Royal Navy has little option in that situation. They have little option but to do what they do at Merzo Cabir.
But we were saying a moment ago, it's all out war, isn't it?

Speaker 1 You need to be ruthless. And Hitler's, the Germans are being peculiar and ruthless about some things and soft on others.

Speaker 1 And here's the Royal Navy going, well, okay, you're not going to lower flags and surrender to us. That's that, I'm afraid.
It's in the traditions of British ruthlessness and the Royal Navy, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Let's be honest now. Let's not

Speaker 1 pretend that we're gentlemen.

Speaker 3 But it's not like they turn up and just open fire on them and kill lots of French sailors. There is a choice.
That's my point.

Speaker 3 But if you're an infantry battalion, you know, if you're a French infantry battalion and you're faced with the Germans overwhelming your battalion, what do you do? Do you fight on until you die, like

Speaker 3 Japanese troops on Iwijima?

Speaker 1 Or do you put your hands up and get put in the bag explain to me what the difference is here um well the difference is it's um it's britain versus france that's the difference this is a thousand this is a chapter in a thousand year history jim thousand years

Speaker 1 i will not surrender to those rust thieves i mean exactly often we've touched on this in in the podcast is britain is extremely ruthless about prosecuting its war aims in the second world war we are not jolly cricket playing gentlemen that is not what that is not the story of the second world war of us muddling through and saying, oh, dear old chap, I'm awfully sorry.

Speaker 1 We don't have the facilities to take you prisoner and all that, that idea, that sort of self-image.

Speaker 1 No, you're not going to, if you're not going to surrender, then I'm afraid we have to sink your ships.

Speaker 3 And then the Royal Navy is the best Navy in the world and the largest, you know, and it's just, you know.

Speaker 3 Got to get past this kind of sort of Captain Mannering view of Britain's war effort.

Speaker 1 We've got past it, Jim. We've expressed it out loud.

Speaker 1 More than Melzer Kabir, there's the attack on Richelieu in Dakar, which in Dakar, which I I think is very, very interesting because, and that's a prolonged battle that the Navy can't quite make stick, and the fleet air arm involved in that.

Speaker 1 And what's very interesting about that is that's an attack on a battleship in a harbor with swordfish that then leads us to lessons learned for an attack on battleships in a harbor later in the year at Taranto.

Speaker 1 And the Richelieu encounter is incredibly important to how they formulate the plan for Taranto. And it's seen as a, well, well, there's this continuity.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 This is continuity in the way the Navy's doing things there aren't just these standout moments that pop up there's this grinding relentless continued continuity of operations at sea that is actually the sort of hallmark of how the royal navy goes about its war is that there's this permanent continuity and continuum and and particularly in the fleet air arm who are having to work it all out and learn it figure it out and design tactics and strategy You know, you've got the canal camp in July.

Speaker 1 So this is the other thing that's going on all at once, isn't it?

Speaker 3 Yep, this is a channel battle. For those of you who haven't listened to our battle-written series, this is a sort of the prelude to start of the Battle of Britain.

Speaker 3 We decided actually it started on the 1st of July, didn't we? God, we've really sorted out

Speaker 3 some big historical issues this year. Who's the greatest general? When the Battle of Britain started.

Speaker 1 But at the same time, this means the Home fleet's being kept home, which means Atlantic trade is very vulnerable.

Speaker 1 And although the Royal Navy is the largest navy in the world and the most ruthless and effective,

Speaker 3 these are a lot of plates for it to spin if it's protecting the channel with the home fleet and it's got this stuff going on in the Mediterranean and Africa, you know, after all the rishidos in tech are there's lots to do and this means that the north atlantic is much more or the atlantic is much more vulnerable yeah and admiral forbes who is the commander in chief of the um of the home fleet he's furious about this because you know he thinks it's absolutely inconceivable the british wouldn't know about an invasion attempt less than 24 hours before it's going to be launched and and also inconceivable the germans would launch it while the rf ref is still going strong and he's absolutely bang on the money and his point is there is not a single part of Britain that can't be re you know that can't be reached within 24 hours by one of their warships.

Speaker 3 So why do they need to be

Speaker 3 all in the southeast? They don't at all. They should be protecting the Western approaches.
They're not. He's overruled by the Admiralty, he's overruled by Pound and

Speaker 3 that's that. And what this leads to, of course, is what the U-boat crews come to term the happy time.

Speaker 3 And, you know, there's no question about it that although everyone in Britain is keenly aware of the importance of transatlantic transatlantic trade, the focus in that summer of 1940 is very firmly on the skies above southern England and the Battle of Britain that's raging.

Speaker 3 Actually, and this in a funny sort of way suits the Ministry of Information quite well because it means they can sort of, you know, sweep onto the carpet the kind of growing losses, you know, of merchant vessels which are heading to the bottom of the sea west of Britain.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's bad, isn't it? In June, it's 134 merchant vessels. In July, it's 102, 91 in August.
It's over a million tons in all.

Speaker 3 So it's 800,000 in nine months, and now it's a million in three.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's absolutely boggling, isn't it? In our next episode, we'll be looking at some big, big convoy battles and the winter, which is going to be very harsh, of 1940 to 1941. We'll see you soon.

Speaker 1 And if you want to listen to all of this, of course, go to our Patreon. You can listen to it with our ads or our Apple podcast channel and become Officer Class.
We'll see you soon. Cheerio.

Speaker 3 Cheerio.