Mel Robbins Calls Out Bert’s People-Pleasing | 2 Bears, 1 Cave

Speaker 1 Las Vegas on Friday, November 21st at Dolby Live. Get your tickets now at tomsegura.com/slash tour.

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 2 There is only one reason I flew to Austin to do my podcast, and it is not with my co-host, Tom Segura. He is off making his bad ideas show.

Speaker 2 It is Mel Robbins. Mel Robbins, Tom told me you were coming.
He's busy in the writer's room, and I hopped on a plane and did not drink today so I could have a lucid conversation.

Speaker 2 I love drinking on planes.

Speaker 3 Why do you like drinking on planes? I like drinking.

Speaker 2 I knew you kind of used to like drink. No, I like to drink.

Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 3 What's your drink? It depends on the day. It depends on the time of day.
It depends on whether or not I'm, I got an empty stomach. Like, so for example.
I love this conversation.

Speaker 3 So in the, well, I used to, I grew up working in restaurants and I was, I did everything. I did the front of the house, the back of the house, the fryer, the busing, the bar back, the bartender.

Speaker 3 I loved being a bartender. There's so much power in being a bartender, right? Have you ever been a bartender?

Speaker 2 Tom and I take over bars. We have a vodka, and so we'll take over bars.
Yep. And I can make one drink, and that's a vodka soda.

Speaker 3 Oh, being a bartender is one of the greatest jobs in the entire world.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 3 Well, of course. Well, because think about it.
Like, you are holding court.

Speaker 3 Everybody needs you and needs your attention.

Speaker 3 It's very creative. You're on your feet.
You get to talk to people. You make a lot of money.
Like, it's a fantastic job.

Speaker 2 I would argue comic is just the same, but without making the drink. Yeah.
And better money. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 Well, so, so, no, I, so it depends. So I think I'm kind of like picky about it because I like that you have a diverse group of drinks.

Speaker 2 So I'll give you the time of day. Okay.
You tell me the drink. I love this game.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Oh, we should do a card game out of this.

Speaker 2 Okay, right.

Speaker 3 This is I also love cards.

Speaker 2 You're you and my wife. okay um all right

Speaker 2 we just got to hawaii our room isn't ready and we're down by the pool and we have to wait for our room to be ready and the lady comes by and go can i get you guys a couple drinks okay it's our first day of five in hawaii if it's hot as hell i'm gonna order a um

Speaker 3 i'm probably gonna order a frozen piña colada with a dark rum float, but not from the slurpee machine. I want it in a blender.
I want like the premium cocktail because we're ripping the band-aid off.

Speaker 2 Floater is so important.

Speaker 3 Right? We're ripping the bandaid off on this vacation. There's no junky ass shit coming out of the slurpee machine.

Speaker 2 This drink represents more than just having a drink. This represents the beginning of a journey, a five-day journey in a blow.
Correct, correct.

Speaker 3 However, if it's like one of those days in Hawaii that I've seen on TV where it's like super windy and blowing, so we're not sitting quite by the pool yet,

Speaker 3 I think I would want more like a painkiller type vibe. Okay.
You know, painkiller, the drink of the Bahamas and the fresh nutmeg on top.

Speaker 3 That feels a little bit more like a proper cocktail that wouldn't give me like that headache freeze thing that happens when you drink something that's frozen.

Speaker 2 Okay, your best friend from college calls you. Yes.
Her dad just died. I need you to come over and sit with me.
She'd get into the house and she says, would you make us two drinks? Yes.

Speaker 2 What drinks do you make?

Speaker 3 Well, if she's my best friend, I know her father's favorite drink.

Speaker 3 And so I would make her father's favorite drink, and then I would raise a toast, and then I would ask her to tell me her, I would tell her my favorite memory of her dad.

Speaker 2 How many guys do you think dated you in college and now look at you and go, fuck, I fucked up?

Speaker 3 No, they didn't. I fucked up.
I was a,

Speaker 3 to every guy that I dated, I just want you to know I am so sorry. Like, I was in peak dysfunction, like, especially if I cheated on you, because I was one of those like psycho chicks that

Speaker 3 clung to you like a blankie and changed my identity to match yours. And then about a year into it, you no longer worked as the cure to my anxiety and insecurity.

Speaker 3 And then I started to slowly get anxious again. And I would get the ick.
And you want to know how fucked up I was

Speaker 3 and so many people can relate to this so I'm just going to put it right out there

Speaker 3 have you ever had the thought

Speaker 3 that you are too afraid to break up with somebody or to tell them the truth that even though they're a great person they're not your person

Speaker 3 and so instead In your fucked up brain, you go, I think I'm just going to fool around with somebody else, and then they'll break up with me so I don't have to like break up with them.

Speaker 3 You are the same people, you two are all the same

Speaker 3 exact person. I'm having an outer body experience in the booth.
You're the same person, Leanne. I think we need a chaperone, Leanne.

Speaker 3 Call my husband. I've been married 29 years.
So, so I literally

Speaker 3 have not been to a college reunion because I am so mortified of the person person that I was during college. And what were you laughing about?

Speaker 2 I did that to every girl I dated.

Speaker 3 Every single one of them. Do you know that this is like a

Speaker 3 doctor? Shout out to Dr. Daniel Amon.
He basically told me when he looked at all these patterns around anxiety and like really risky, awful behavior.

Speaker 3 He's like, oh, this is a, this is really something that is typical of a certain type of ADHD brain. Yeah.
Yeah, there's something, I can't explain it.

Speaker 3 Somebody else smarter than me can explain it, but there's something around the dopamine flooding and the ups and downs.

Speaker 3 And, you know, for me personally, I did not understand the shit I was dealing with in my nervous system and in my mind until I did not put together the puzzle or the casserole dish that was Mel Robbins until I was probably 47 years old to be able to look back and go, oh,

Speaker 3 now this makes sense. Because here's the thing, I got to ask you a question.
So when you were acting like an asshole,

Speaker 3 did you have those moments where you would say to yourself, I shouldn't be doing this? Why can't I stop myself from doing this? Why am I such a bad person?

Speaker 3 Why am I so afraid? to just have a conversation with somebody about how I honestly feel. Why do I just

Speaker 3 twist myself in knots and pretend I'm somebody I'm not and then I run in a different direction and I think that somehow people aren't going to know

Speaker 3 that I'm too, like I'm living a double life, that I'm this way with this group, I'm this way with this.

Speaker 3 I don't even know who I am anymore because whoever I'm in front of is that's I just pretend I agree with everything they're saying and then I go to somebody else and then I pretend I don't agree.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, people, people say to me, oh my God, you're so vulnerable. You're so authentic.
I'm like, do you know how long I was a liar?

Speaker 2 Do you know how hard that is?

Speaker 3 I don't think I'm vulnerable at all. I just finally woke the hell up and realized it's so much easier to be honest.

Speaker 3 It's so stressful to pretend to be somebody you're not. And it's so stressful to hide the things that are hard because then you're the one living with this shit.

Speaker 3 See, I can't swear on my podcast because I want people to be able to listen with their kids.

Speaker 3 And as a woman, the only criticism you get is about, like, in my case, the turkey neck and the like, you know, jowls right here, and the irritating voice.

Speaker 3 But I also get tons of criticism if I ever swear.

Speaker 2 Oh, I, yeah, that's that.

Speaker 3 But, you know, I come from a long line of farmers and like, you know, bakers and machinists. And so I like literally talk like a trucker in my normal life.

Speaker 3 Was this not what you expected? No, I didn't.

Speaker 2 I, you know, I thought I was the only really fucked up. Like,

Speaker 2 I'm very fucked up. I still am.
I haven't had my aha moment.

Speaker 2 I acknowledge it, and I think everyone acknowledges it. That's the kind of interesting thing about me is that maybe I'm the last one to pick it up, but everyone else knows it.
Like,

Speaker 2 you brought back the weirdest memory.

Speaker 3 Okay, tell me. I want details.
What year? Unless it's going to expose somebody who doesn't need to be exposed, but just kind of give me details.

Speaker 2 1997.

Speaker 2 I'm guessing. 96, 97.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I was in a fight.

Speaker 2 I have wild, crazy.

Speaker 2 I cheated on everyone I ever dated.

Speaker 3 Except for myself. Now, is that how you got out of it? That's how I got it.

Speaker 2 That's how I got out of it. Yes.
I just was like, oh, just make them not like me.

Speaker 3 Yes. That was so easy.
Because

Speaker 2 it's so much easier for you to just hate me than me to tell you I don't like you.

Speaker 3 Yes. And did you then stay with the person you cheated with? So it was like the off-ramp into the next

Speaker 3 monogamous cheating situation.

Speaker 2 Oh, I would, yeah, and then I'd stay with the person and then sometimes go back to the other person. And then

Speaker 2 I was so bad. Yes.

Speaker 3 Oh, my God. Why am I laughing? Like, I was.

Speaker 2 I have this moment that I think of every now and then it haunts me where I go,

Speaker 2 that is, that's the real Bert

Speaker 2 where cheated caught

Speaker 2 wanted her back in a bathroom and i'm crying so that she hears it

Speaker 2 in the middle of crying i stop crying entirely and i look in the mirror and i go i wonder if anyone hears this i went what the fuck's happening i was like wait Are you sad?

Speaker 2 I was like, I don't think I am. I was like, just cry louder.
And then I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Well, I'll tell you what you were doing.

Speaker 3 Because if she takes you back and forgives you, you can forgive yourself.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 My dad cheated on my mom

Speaker 2 and the day, and he told me, and the day after I cheated on my girlfriend. And I was like, why would I, like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 2 It was so.

Speaker 2 Wait, hang on.

Speaker 2 So wait, how did you get to this then?

Speaker 3 What do you get to what?

Speaker 2 To like you.

Speaker 2 Me? Yeah, like right now everyone's like, who the fuck is Bert talking to? He hasn't even introduced her.

Speaker 2 Mel Robbins, if you do not know, and if you're just a Two Bears fan and you're like, this fucking woman rocks, you have no idea.

Speaker 2 She wrote, you have two books, but one book that is mind-blowing is Let Them.

Speaker 2 Let them. The reason I know you is because

Speaker 2 your youngest and my youngest are the same age. Okay.
We both dropped off at college on the same day. No kidding.
Yeah. I followed.
I didn't know who you were.

Speaker 2 You got into my algorithm and you were talking about the process of dropping off. And I was extremely emotional.

Speaker 2 And I said, who the, who the fuck is this lady? And Leanne goes, you don't know who Mel Robbins is. And I went, no, should I? And she goes, absolutely.
And I, I think I DM'd you that day. Really?

Speaker 2 I want to say I did, but I was like, we both had the same feelings of helplessness, of like, this, did I really sign up for this to raise them so that then they don't need me? Yes. And I,

Speaker 2 and then from that moment on, read Let Them and was like, oh shit, I never did the other part. You are one of the biggest podcasts around.
You are one of the biggest public speakers around.

Speaker 2 You've hit 180 countries talking publicly. Your books are best, national bestsellers and not the kind that like comics get, real good ones where everyone buys them.
Not just our fans of our podcast.

Speaker 2 Everyone buys them.

Speaker 2 Your friends,

Speaker 2 your peers are the biggest minds in this business, including Oprah.

Speaker 2 And you are incredible. And you have blown my mind in the first 12 minutes of this podcast.
But I want to get to how you got there.

Speaker 2 Like how you got to here, because

Speaker 2 I feel like I really quickly identified with who we both were in our 20s, 30s.

Speaker 2 And now, but you're still.

Speaker 3 I was shitting in my teens too. Like I'll take, I'll loan that.

Speaker 2 I didn't know I had anxiety. Yes.

Speaker 2 I remember telling my dad I had anxiety and he'd just go, go back to bed.

Speaker 2 And I was like, I can't. The television's yelling at me and my toenails feel like they're creeping in.
I'm like, I'm losing my fucking mind. And so, but you, you've dealt with all of that shit.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So what was, and I, I know a little bit of your aha moment

Speaker 2 of $800,000 in debt, drinking too much, depressed.

Speaker 2 But get me to the journey. Okay.
Because there's people right now going, this is,

Speaker 2 I want to figure things out. Of course.

Speaker 3 See, let's,

Speaker 3 I personally believe that every human being wants to do well.

Speaker 3 Like even when I was screwing things up and I was treating people terribly and treating myself terribly, I wanted to do well. I didn't know how.
And that sounds like the dumbest thing in the world.

Speaker 3 But how many times have you, like nobody wakes up in the morning and says, you know what I'm going to do today? I'm going to fuck up my life.

Speaker 3 That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to drink that entire bottle of vodka and then I'm going to get in the car behind the wheel or I'm going to walk into work and blow things off.

Speaker 3 So I get nobody intentionally screws up their life.

Speaker 3 And for me,

Speaker 3 I think that there were just so many things going on under the surface that I didn't understand

Speaker 3 the

Speaker 3 ways in which my brain or my nervous system or things that happened in my childhood that were not particularly that like crazy, how they impacted who I became as an adult.

Speaker 3 And then I started to feel trapped in behaviors and thinking patterns that I knew deep down. I'm like, this isn't me.
Like, I, it's not that life is supposed to be a party. It's that

Speaker 3 there was something about

Speaker 3 the self-hatred and the constant feeling like I was letting myself down or there, I just did it again. Like, why can't I get my shit together?

Speaker 3 Why can't I pull it together? Like it seems like everybody else does. And so, you you know, I lived in that just

Speaker 3 torture chamber of self-criticism that I think most people do.

Speaker 2 Did you ever feel like the self-criticism motivated you?

Speaker 3 Well, I am a very negatively motivated person.

Speaker 2 My wife calls it punitive. Yes.
Drive off punitive thoughts.

Speaker 3 Yes. Well, first of all, motivation is complete garbage because you will never, ever, ever feel like doing what you need to do.
Period. Ever.

Speaker 3 It's true. Like if motivation were on tap, we'd all have a million dollars in six pack abs.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 anybody that you admire, they didn't feel motivated. They learned this skill that we all need to learn in life, which is

Speaker 3 pushing yourself to do the things you don't feel like doing.

Speaker 2 I wrote in a journal one time, make yourself more uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 I was like, anything you, it seems like all the good shit that makes you feel good the next day is all the shit you shouldn't, you don't want to do.

Speaker 3 Correct. Well, well, I didn't understand this, and I didn't even really understand it truly until we did all the research for the Letham Theory book.
That

Speaker 3 I didn't understand the basic wiring of the brain, meaning that your brain is not, your brain changes, you know, all these fancy words, neuroplasticity, you're wired for growth, it will adapt.

Speaker 3 But actually, your brain hates change, and your brain is wired to reflexively have you move away from the things that feel hard now.

Speaker 3 And I just thought it was a defect in me when the truth is that there is part of the wiring, the survival mechanism that keeps you on the couch because it feels good now.

Speaker 3 And your brain is going to move towards whatever feels good and easy right now. And in order to get your ass off the couch and to go to the gym, you have to force yourself to do what is hard now

Speaker 3 and you're not going to see any result. And so you got to keep doing it.
And so, you know, back to your question, though, how did you get, how did you get to where you are?

Speaker 3 I want to just ground you, if you're watching or you're listening right now, kind of in the present. So I'm 57.
My husband, Chris.

Speaker 2 By the way, you look more attractive today than you did younger.

Speaker 3 Well, thank you. I think it's because I'm not carrying all the bullshit.

Speaker 2 It's crazy. I was with Leanne last night and I was Googling pictures of you younger, beautiful.
But for some reason, I find you, and I feel the same with my wife.

Speaker 2 You're so much more attractive older.

Speaker 3 It's crazy. Well, I think that when you're somebody

Speaker 3 who,

Speaker 3 when you're proud of who you are, when you're not trying to be better than anybody else, when you wake up every day and I'd say 80% of the shit you do,

Speaker 3 you are aligned with your values and what's important to you

Speaker 3 it has a funny impact on how happy you are and how, what your health is, because you can lay your head down on the pillow at night and go, okay, I screwed that up. I screwed that up.

Speaker 3 But you know what? Good job, Mel. You know, you did a good job.

Speaker 3 You showed up with good intentions. You were kind to people.
You're patient with your husband, you know, just like every marriage, I drive him crazy. He drives me crazy.

Speaker 3 And I feel good about how I showed up because I did my best. Wasn't perfect, but I did the best that I could.
I apologize quickly when I used that tone of voice.

Speaker 3 So, 57 years old, I've been married for 29 years. I live in southern Vermont.
That's where I live. Like, I live in the mountains.
I live in a town of 3,000 people.

Speaker 3 You know, I shop at a store where you can buy your car hearts and you can buy your feed and you can buy your fishing poles and you can get your, you know, your everything you need.

Speaker 3 If they don't sell it, you don't need it. And I'm a small town kind of person.
And, you know, to answer your question, how did you get to the point where

Speaker 3 you

Speaker 3 have all of this success and this impact? And I will tell you

Speaker 3 that

Speaker 3 I learn everything the hard way. I have to screw up my own life in order to learn the lesson.
I don't know why I can't read it in a book.

Speaker 3 I don't know why. I'm not just motivated to do things.
Like there's two reasons why people change. One is they either have a moment of clarity and they're very clear about what they want

Speaker 2 or

Speaker 3 they have massive pain. And it is going to be harder to stay where you are than it is to finally do the stuff you've been avoiding to do.
And pain typically gives you a moment of clarity. And so

Speaker 3 the Mel Robbins that you see now in terms of the success of the podcast and 40 million followers and this Let Them Theory book is a global phenomenon. It has sold 8 million copies in 11 months.

Speaker 3 It's in 63 languages already. I'm the villain in the book.
I mean, that's why it's a fun book to read because I'm the one. Well, you're me, so you're not the heroes.

Speaker 2 I thought we were the heroes.

Speaker 2 No, no.

Speaker 2 The clearest thing you say in that book, I mean, it is, it's got to be,

Speaker 2 it's got to be the first chapter.

Speaker 2 And this is what I identified with the most was you were sitting on Instagram and you saw a picture of your friend of your friend and your friend looked good and you're like oh she looks great she looks awesome where was she and then you saw a picture of all your friends yeah they were together yeah and you're like what the fuck they're in jamaica how come no one invited me

Speaker 2 mel i was like

Speaker 2 i was like all right push pause sat up i was like i deal with this all the time i have i had a therapist diagnose me as having fomo And he was like, what? I go, is that the thing?

Speaker 2 And he was like, I think you have FOMO.

Speaker 2 But the idea of of not being included not being and then i will spiral and i start all their dialogues that they

Speaker 2 spent their whole vacation talking about me yes they never once thought about me and now i'm obsessed and i start hating them and then and then you go you're like hey what have i that was the aha moment tell me the aha moment where you go well what but what have i done yes to reach out yes like i it happens to me in austin so all my friends live here and they all hang out and they take great pictures They have a fucking professional photographer that follows them around and takes great pictures.

Speaker 2 And I get mad and I go, what the fuck? I don't even know that guy. How's he hanging out with all my friends? What the fuck are they doing? And then I go, but wait, what have I done?

Speaker 2 Why don't I fly to Austin more often?

Speaker 3 Yeah, or invite them to where you are. Yeah, or reach out more.

Speaker 2 Yeah, or why don't I call more or text more? Uh-huh. And I was like, oh my God, it was the...
Let me part that I didn't get. Yes.
I wasn't doing that in life.

Speaker 3 Yes. So what, so just in case you don't know what the let them theory is, let me explain it.
You do not need to buy the book. I'm going to explain it to you right now.
It is dead simple.

Speaker 3 If you're a fan of stoicism, if you love the serenity prayer, if you've ever had a therapist talk to you about boundaries or detachment theory,

Speaker 3 the let them theory is a modern version of all those things reduced down to four words. And so here's how you're going to use it.

Speaker 3 Anytime you're stressed out, annoyed, hurt, frustrated, going down a spiral, Just say let them.

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Speaker 3 And it could be in the example that you gave where you see a bunch of buddies going off on a golf trip and you're like, what the fuck?

Speaker 3 And that right there, because I'm glad you gave that example because I wondered about that example in the books. I'm like, are men going to actually

Speaker 3 relate to that example? The truth is, of course, because it's mentally healthy. It's a sign that your brain is working correctly if you see people hanging out that you love and you're not included.

Speaker 3 Like, it's okay to feel like, shit, I wish I were there.

Speaker 3 The real question, though, is what do you then do with that feeling?

Speaker 2 That's where we all stop.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 We have the feeling and then we go, oh, fuck them. That's right.

Speaker 3 Or you then aim it back at you.

Speaker 3 And and you go i've done something they're bad and so you know in the example that you gave so it let's say you're driving through traffic and construction and you're running late you start gripping the wheel oh my god you can't control traffic you can't control the jerk that just came in front of you but all of a sudden all of this noise on the outside When you start to grip the steering wheel, you just let that into your brain.

Speaker 3 You just let that have power over you. Do you know how stupid that is?

Speaker 2 It's crazy. I lived on a street that was one way in Valley Village.
You can find this fucking street.

Speaker 2 And everyone, everyone used to drive the wrong way up the one way because it was shorter to get to their house. And it used to make me fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 And then my fucking wife was like, but what are you going to do? You can't stop it. What are you going to do? And it would make me crazy.
And I was powerless over it. Yet this one thing,

Speaker 2 and I go, mother,

Speaker 2 I would concoct. Like, I should get a paintball gun and shoot i remember one time you can and i allow me to indulge in

Speaker 2 one time an old man drove the wrong way and we were walking the girls to school oh god and he almost he didn't almost hit us but he definitely drove too fast too close to us for me not to say something yeah of course i said i got there and he hopped out of his car and topped me with his

Speaker 2 i live in this neighborhood i live in this neighborhood i go to starbucks just like everyone else i don't want to drive down. And we got, I mean, almost hit him with a water bottle.

Speaker 2 Two weeks later, I saw him walking down the street with his wife and a walker. He had had a stroke.
And all I thought was,

Speaker 2 oh, if you keep up this, if you can't let them,

Speaker 2 for lack of a better, if you can't let them and just go, hey, I don't have control over this.

Speaker 2 This isn't my, then you're going to end up one day having a stroke because you were so busy fucking fucking fighting over the thing that you couldn't change anyway.

Speaker 3 But here's an even deeper thing.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 Your time and energy in life is the single most valuable thing you have because what you spend your time on and where you pour your energy determines your experience of life.

Speaker 3 And I want you to really

Speaker 3 just consider what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 And this is not just some like self-help bullshit. This has been true since the beginning of time.
That the more you try to control something that's out of your control, the less control you have.

Speaker 2 That's a huge thing you talk about in the book. Yes.

Speaker 3 And so I want you to just,

Speaker 3 I get that the world feels like it's tilting on its axis. I get that people are so annoying and stupid, and why don't they think a certain way?

Speaker 3 I get that it is so stressful to pay your bills that things don't seem fair right now. But I want you to consider

Speaker 2 why

Speaker 3 would you allow

Speaker 3 stupid people

Speaker 3 or the stress of day-to-day life to rob you of your most precious resource, which is your time, it's your energy. See, you can't control the idiot driving down the street the wrong way.

Speaker 3 You can't control what's happening in the headlines. You can't control if AI is going to come and steal your job.
And so when you say let them,

Speaker 3 what happens is you're not allowing anything to happen.

Speaker 3 When you say the two words, let them, you're forcing yourself to recognize that this is a situation that is out of my control. It's already happened.
It's happening. I can't change another person.

Speaker 3 Like, there are people that are annoying. It's true.
There are things that happen that is unfair. It's true.

Speaker 3 When I say let them, I force myself to recognize, okay, wait, the outside world is getting in here or they're getting into like my stress.

Speaker 3 Then you say the second part, which is let me, let me remind myself, I always get to choose. This is stoicism.

Speaker 3 I get to choose whether or not this is worth my time. I get to choose whether or not I'm going to allow this situation to stress me out.
I get to choose how I'm going to respond.

Speaker 3 What do I want to think about the guy that just drove down the street? What do I want to do?

Speaker 3 And there are going to be sometimes where the let me part, once you see this idiot going down, you're like, let them, that doesn't mean I'm just throwing my hands in there.

Speaker 3 It means, okay, let them i'm recognizing he's stressing me out now let me is today the day i am gonna walk over and i'm gonna hit the hood of the car and be like what up dude like you almost hit like there are times where you do do that but now you're choosing it

Speaker 2 yeah you're not letting the out okay so i've always had a problem with stoicism okay because i just heard it a bunch

Speaker 2 That's it, really. It's like everyone was like, oh, I'm a stoic now.
And they're like Marcus Aurelius said. And I'm like, huh? And then I got to the point where I I think I called out Ryan Holiday.

Speaker 2 And then Ryan reached out and he was like,

Speaker 2 I'm not smart enough to tell you my problems with stoicism,

Speaker 2 but I just know that I go,

Speaker 2 I don't know, isn't the sparkle, the fucking passion, the thing that fires you up in that part of the human experience? And I don't know enough about stoicism to say it is and isn't.

Speaker 2 But if you're saying that I can understand let them and let me,

Speaker 2 is that stoicism?

Speaker 3 It's how you apply it. See, I've always been, I have never been ever able to let anything go.

Speaker 2 I hold grudges.

Speaker 3 Oh, well, well, I don't hold grudges because it, when you hold a grudge, it means you are allowing the person you're pissed off at to have power over you.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, no, no. I do my grudges different.
How do you do them? I let them think that we're good, and then I talk behind their backs.

Speaker 3 That's such a waste of time.

Speaker 2 Oh, but it feels so good. No, it doesn't.
Sometimes, yeah, but I mean, I'm so sensitive. It's like, I'm such a nice guy.
Then when I go, when you hurt me, like, I go, what? like

Speaker 2 i don't know i what i i i'm also in a business full of lunatics

Speaker 2 fair like it's not like i'm just building fences with a bunch of guys right but here's here's what i want to tell you other

Speaker 3 people

Speaker 3 are very clear about who they are

Speaker 3 and how they feel about you There is nothing confusing about other people's behavior. The confusing part is the fact that, you know, because somebody's behavior, by the way, is

Speaker 3 100% black and white, how they feel about you and who they are. The problem is that we go upstairs in our head and instead of just letting people show us who they are,

Speaker 3 we live in a fantasy in our mind instead of the reality of what's right in front of our face.

Speaker 2 But you've had to have run into people on this journey of yours. Yes.
That you take and you hold close to and you're like, I found a real one. and then all of a sudden you realize oh

Speaker 3 that person doesn't was using me for something else well hold on i will also say that if i've agreed to it they're not using me

Speaker 3 okay but then there comes a time then there comes a time because you have stepped into something and you want something out of it too, whether it's I want to be friends with this person or whatever.

Speaker 3 And here's the thing about trust, because you're talking about somebody violating your trust.

Speaker 3 Nobody can take that trust away from you because you get to choose whether you give it to somebody and whether you take it back.

Speaker 3 And so at some point in the relationship, though, you got to really think about this because there's a lot of dick, there's a lot of like sleaze ball people out there.

Speaker 3 There's a lot of people that will take advantage of you. There's a lot of people that want access to you.
And so they come at you. But at this point, you can smell them coming a mile away.

Speaker 3 But what happens is you're like, oh, well, I kind of want to, but no, you have to learn to let people be who they are and who they're not.

Speaker 3 And you've got to keep your energy in check because when you do let me remind myself i always hold the cards here because even if i say yes to this saying if this person rubs me wrong or says something i then i can say no i'm such an idiot so i i don't think i was looking at

Speaker 2 i was naively looking at any negative interaction as they did me wrong as they wanted something from me as opposed to honestly saying At the very beginning, I wanted something from them also. Yes.

Speaker 2 And I was getting it. That's why I I entered this relationship.
Yes. And then.

Speaker 3 But see, the reason why this is important is because when you really embrace how simple this is, let them is a boundary you put up between you and other people.

Speaker 3 And what I love, it does start out. You mentioned, you know, it sounds like fuck them.

Speaker 3 It does start out that way. It's sort of like the Irish version.
And the reason why it's important to say let them, let's use an example where

Speaker 3 this is impacting people around the world right now. AI is here, it's coming.

Speaker 3 And there are so many of you who right now are in a job where you're scared to death that you're about to get fired or that you're about to be made redundant, that you're old, you're this, you're that.

Speaker 3 And so when you say, let them,

Speaker 3 what happens is it forces you to recognize this is what's happening. And I can't control whether or not my company is going to lay me off.
I can't control if AI takes my job now or two years from now.

Speaker 3 So any stress, any worrying, any gossiping with colleagues or bitching about it is wasted energy and time.

Speaker 3 I need to do the let me part, which is where you take the power back, oh, let me remind myself there are always three things in my control.

Speaker 3 I can choose what to think about the reality that AI is here. I can choose what I do or don't do.

Speaker 3 I can choose whether I sit here like a sitting duck, waiting for it to happen, or I can choose to see the reality because I'm a smart person that this is coming.

Speaker 3 So, okay, I'm going to choose to spend my weekend taking an AI training class. I'm going to choose to spend some time going, do I even like what I do for a living?

Speaker 3 Maybe now is the time to make a pivot. I'm going to choose to work on my resume

Speaker 3 instead of feeling like a victim.

Speaker 2 It doesn't have to be just AI because it's this is so applicable.

Speaker 2 This is so applicable in so many things, and I'm not feeling let them enough. And I'm, I'm thinking I'm, I'm,

Speaker 3 oh, wow. I didn't,

Speaker 3 you got to understand, I was 54 when I figured this out. I, this is not how I've lived my life.
I've done my life the other way.

Speaker 3 I've done my life where I have bent over backwards, navigating every decision, like trying to make people happy and trying to like make sure everybody likes me, trying to make sure nobody's like mad that I didn't show up.

Speaker 3 This happens in business a lot. I don't want to piss off my partners, so I better go to that, even though I don't want to go to that.

Speaker 3 And, you know, one of the things I want to say very directly also is that I think

Speaker 3 one of the things that I think has been a real disservice to everybody is that women tend to think that they own

Speaker 3 the

Speaker 3 narrative that I bend over backwards. I'm the one that's taking care of everybody.
And that may be true when you look at hours spent doing a lot of the stuff at home.

Speaker 3 But the fact is, men feel just as much pressure to provide.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 you guys feel like if you're not working and if you're not providing then you're not measuring up

Speaker 3 and that everybody comes before you on the list

Speaker 3 no I mean this I'm

Speaker 2 I just had this conversation

Speaker 2 who the fuck was I talking to it was oh Cody Rhodes the WWE champion

Speaker 2 I wish it was a author or something but it was the who cares

Speaker 3 the the thing. This is a universal thing that everybody feels on.

Speaker 3 The pressure to make sure everybody else is okay and that you're doing a good job and that your kids like you and your spouse likes you and your boss likes you.

Speaker 2 If I don't work right now, then no one gets to go to college. Correct.
And then all of a sudden, you get the money to get everyone to college.

Speaker 2 But if I keep working, then I get to maybe take the family on a vacation. Yes.
And then I can be the provider that I want to be. And I have so much regret as a father.
I have so much regret.

Speaker 2 And Leanne would deny this if she heard this. What do you regret? That I spent so much time

Speaker 2 working to make sure, but then in a weird way,

Speaker 2 there's almost like a bloodletting to it, like a being burned at the stake in front of the village, going like, I'm a father. This is what we do.
I spent a lot of time in airplanes.

Speaker 2 I don't like flying. You know, I don't know why it turned into Trump impression, but like, but it's interesting that you say that because I

Speaker 2 felt so much that like I was bending over backwards for everyone,

Speaker 2 but I was also following my dream.

Speaker 3 Yes. Well, I'm because

Speaker 3 here, let me unpack this a little bit. So I'll give you an example.

Speaker 3 Let's say that your parents want you to come home this weekend because somebody's coming by and you don't really want to go home because you got some other plans that you need to do and you're exhausted from the week of work, but then you know the guilt is going to come and you want to make sure that you're a good son.

Speaker 3 Wanting to be a good friend or a good son or a good spouse or a good parent, that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 Absolutely beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 The issue that I could see with myself is that I was bending over backwards so that other people were happy with me.

Speaker 3 And the truth is, there's one thing in life you can't actually control, and that's other people.

Speaker 3 What they feel, what they do, what they expect, what they think, when they change, if they heal. You can't control any of that.
And so I would bend over backwards and change my plans and then go home.

Speaker 3 And what do you hear when you go home? It's literally like, why couldn't you come on Thursday? And so you're like, I can't win. Everybody said they feel, I just can't win.
Yes, you can.

Speaker 3 Because in that moment where you feel the pressure of guilt, whether it's coming from a business thing that you need to do or it's coming from a family member or a friend that needs to borrow your pickup, and you don't want to let him borrow your pickup, but now he's guilting you because he really needs help with the move.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 you're like, fine.

Speaker 3 You acquiesced

Speaker 3 in order to make him okay

Speaker 3 what the let them theory taught me and i did not get this till i was 54 years old is that there's a different way to approach that situation and the situation is let them be disappointed oh oh my god i can't yes you can let me unpack this disappointment is an incredible thing

Speaker 3 because

Speaker 2 okay i'm gonna stop i'm gonna stop you but what if you disappoint them and then they no longer want you in their life

Speaker 3 if you disappoint

Speaker 2 somebody, my fear is that I will disappoint them. And by the way, I have five themes I can think of right now.

Speaker 2 And then they're going to go, fine, who's next?

Speaker 2 And then I go, well, hold on, hang on. I could be there.
Let's say, let's not. Don't worry.
I'll be there.

Speaker 2 I'm your one. Okay.

Speaker 3 What I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 2 And Tom Segura, you're one of these motherfuckers.

Speaker 3 Well, but what I'm going to tell you is that if somebody is going to want you out of their life life because you disappoint them once or twice,

Speaker 3 that is a relationship that has an emotional tax that is too expensive to pay.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 the reason why you get into these very transactional relationships is because, you know, we're relational people. Like we're designed to be, you know, connected to each other.

Speaker 3 And so if somebody can guilt you and hold their relationship with you over their head and it works, they're going to keep doing it. Yeah.
Yeah. Just like a dog with a treat.
Like, it works.

Speaker 2 How do you apply that in business?

Speaker 3 Well, let's say you've got a sponsor of this podcast.

Speaker 2 Let's, no, let's do. I'm going to do you.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Give me one.

Speaker 2 Let's use Netflix. Okay.
Netflix is like, yo, we want to do the Mel Robbins show. We want it to be weekly.
Okay. We want it to be a three-hour long talk with you and your favorite people.
Yep.

Speaker 2 We want you to move out to LA. Uh-huh.
And

Speaker 2 this is easy. Oh, are you in?

Speaker 3 No. Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 Oh, but you also, okay, but you don't need it.

Speaker 3 Well, I don't like, like, I

Speaker 3 think that there are times in your life. And so let me unpack the example.
We'll go back to Netflix. Okay.

Speaker 3 So in that situation, the buddy wants to borrow your pickup truck. You don't want to lend it to him.
Your parents want you to come home for the weekend. You already got plans.
You don't want to go.

Speaker 3 And the guilt sets in. And then you feel like the crush.
Oh, I'm going to disappoint people. We don't even think about this consciously.
We just feel the pressure.

Speaker 2 It just happens so quick.

Speaker 3 So this is how you use lethal theory. When you start feeling that pressure, because it feels like tension, right?

Speaker 3 Why? What are you what?

Speaker 2 I started.

Speaker 2 You said it happened so quick and it just happened to me. Why? Who are you thinking of?

Speaker 2 Mark Norman. Okay.
I was literally like, Mark Norman and I both would just, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to lie to the guy with the pickup truck and tell them we're on our way.

Speaker 2 And then we're going to go to our parents' house and we're just going to keep stringing this one. Like Mark, Norman and I, and he doesn't, I feel bad that I included him, but we do the same thing.

Speaker 2 We're our another friend of ours will be like, how far away are you really? Yes. And you're like, five minutes.
And I've never told someone exactly how far I am in my life.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 I'm like, 20 minutes. And you have to know that's fucking 45 minutes.

Speaker 3 Of course. I'm not even out the door yet.

Speaker 2 I interrupted you before. No, it's all good.
It's all good. I'm immediately immersed in that.

Speaker 3 But see, we can all feel it. And so that's when you go let them because what you're, what's happening when you feel that like

Speaker 3 in your body is the pressure

Speaker 3 to make everybody else okay has just gone into your body. So let them is just you going, okay, let them.
And now the depra, the, the, the, the pressure kind of disappears for a little bit.

Speaker 3 And you can say, let them, let them, let them fucking be mad. Like, cause the, I find a little attitude helps you detach from the emotion that's making you go like this.

Speaker 3 So now you go to the let me part and you say this, okay, let me ask myself,

Speaker 3 what do I want to do?

Speaker 3 Do I want to, not because I feel pressured to lend the pickup truck, not because I feel pressured to go home, what does a good friend mean to me in this moment?

Speaker 3 What does being a good son mean to me in this moment? And now I get to choose. I get to choose whether or not I'm going home under different terms.

Speaker 3 I'm only going to come Saturday, or I get to choose, hey, buddy,

Speaker 3 I can't do it Tuesday, but I could do it next Thursday. Or I'm just not comfortable.
It's a brand new truck. You have a shitty, like,

Speaker 3 you don't take care of your stuff. And that's just how I feel.

Speaker 3 Well, man,

Speaker 3 let them.

Speaker 3 Because here's what I'm going to tell you. When people are disappointed, it's a good thing.

Speaker 2 It's been my biggest fear is to disappoint people.

Speaker 3 But people are only disappointed

Speaker 3 because they want you around.

Speaker 3 Oh.

Speaker 3 Like, imagine a business meeting where you're like, I can't can't make it. And your sponsor of the podcast is like, we're so disappointed, man.
It's going to be a great thing.

Speaker 3 Like, what is the opposite? The opposite is, oh, thank God that asshole can't come. I can't stand him.

Speaker 3 Disappointment is, oh, I just wanted you there. I care about you.
It doesn't mean you have to do anything.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I know.
You're so good at seeing the other side of the fence. I have such a hard time looking over the shrubs to even see that there is a fence.

Speaker 3 Yes. Well, and it's not your responsibility to make other people okay.
And it's not your responsibility to remove the tension and frustration from other people's lives.

Speaker 3 It's your responsibility to show up in a way that makes you proud of who you are because you know your intentions.

Speaker 3 And you also know that it's really important that you start to pay more attention to the things that are going to make you operate and feel like, you know,

Speaker 3 I know I'm a good son. It doesn't mean I have to bend over backwards and go out out there every single weekend.

Speaker 2 I could use you on speed dial.

Speaker 3 But, but, so, so, and again, like, I have to say,

Speaker 3 this is

Speaker 3 simple wisdom that was learned through a lifetime of doing it the other way. I was so transactional in my friendships, just like everybody else.
Like, if I invite you over, you better invite me over.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, say this, we see a lot of feedback from folks, you know, in families where people start saying let them because their siblings really piss them off.

Speaker 3 And that's why we have families to learn how to love people you hate. Like that's why everybody has a family because you can hate people sometimes and still love them.

Speaker 3 And what saying let them allows you to do is it allows you for the first time, like your mom and dad aren't changing. No.
They've been the same people.

Speaker 3 And if you have somebody that's got a challenging personality in your family, they're not fucking changing. Because people only change when they're ready to change for themselves.

Speaker 3 And so when you start to say let them, let my brother be a narcissistic dickhead, you know, let my uncle drink too much, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, you're training yourself to see people and accept them as they are.

Speaker 3 And now you get to choose, if I know that this is how this person is, do I just want to limit the time? Do I want to drink a little more because it makes it a little bit easier?

Speaker 3 Do I want to limit the amount of time I spend with that person to a day? But still showing up with my family is important because I value family, but I'm going to stop expecting them to change.

Speaker 3 And I'm going to recognize that things only change when I decide to change how I show up. That's where all the power is.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And again, I learned this a hard way.
I'm not sitting here better than anybody else. I'm not sitting here saying I know best.
I'm saying I caused myself so much agita.

Speaker 3 When I think about my poor husband, Chris, oh my God.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 he said,

Speaker 2 you've been 29 years?

Speaker 3 29 years.

Speaker 2 So he's only gotten, he had 26 confusing years

Speaker 2 and three really good ones. Yeah.
Because if you're talking about like, cause

Speaker 2 all I'm thinking about in this is like when my daughters were young,

Speaker 2 we all lived in LA. My sisters lived in LA, lived down the street from me.
And me and my wife lived on the same street as my sisters. My parents would come in town and my dad would say,

Speaker 2 hey, we're going to do dinner tonight. Yep.
Around nine o'clock. And my wife would go, will the girls have a bedtime?

Speaker 3 Yep.

Speaker 2 And he'd say, well,

Speaker 2 what time can you go? And she goes, well, you know, bedtime's seven, five would be great. And he goes, well, I don't want to go to dinner at five.
Okay. And it would turn into this huge fight.

Speaker 2 And I was straddling the fence, wanting to have dinner with my family. And my wife would just be like, let them go to dinner.

Speaker 2 And I don't, and I couldn't get past the controlling of it of like, no, I want to have dinner with my family. And my dad was like, doesn't matter.
We're going to dinner when we're going to dinner.

Speaker 2 Great.

Speaker 2 And I would be, I couldn't let anybody. I couldn't let her stay there.
I couldn't go with them. I couldn't, it would just paralyze me.

Speaker 3 I think that's so relatable. And what starts to happen when you recognize that you can't control what people are going to expect, what they want from you.
You can't control their opinions about you.

Speaker 3 When you start to say let them, like in that example, like I really respect that you guys. knew and were aligned on the fact that, look, we have little kids.
You're fucking retired.

Speaker 3 Like you came to visit. This is the program during the week.
The kids are going to bed at seven, whatever. We're going to have dinner at X if we want to go out.

Speaker 3 That you guys knew what works for you.

Speaker 3 And when you say let them, you're not kind of like, what happens is you're taking a step back from getting pulled in.

Speaker 3 Like, you know how there are people in your life that like, they almost like fish for issues. And then I'm the idiot that's like, oh, gramping on the thing and fighting with the thing.

Speaker 3 And so when you just just like, let them, dad, if you want to go out at nine, no problem. And you're welcome here until you go out.
We'd love to have you. I'm going to have dinner with my family.

Speaker 3 I'm going to tuck in the girls and then I'll come out and have a second like meal with you. But, you know, I, you got to do what works for you.
And we're just in the thick of it, dad.

Speaker 3 Now you're not freaked out.

Speaker 3 And if you know that, because here's, because two things could be true at once.

Speaker 3 You can be an incredible dad and an incredible husband, and you can know that your kids need a certain bedtime, and you can also be an awesome son.

Speaker 3 And you can figure out how to make room for both if you want to.

Speaker 3 If you want to.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, I think the thing that we forget, like, this has been this, there's a, I can't remember who the expert was that came on the podcast who said something about how as the parent,

Speaker 3 the responsibility for the relationship is with you. Your kids owe you nothing.

Speaker 3 Because if you believe that your kids owe you something, it means that

Speaker 3 everything

Speaker 3 that you did as a parent was transactional. You were putting a deposit in this time.
And do you know how many times I'd be like, you're going to act like that? I just bought you those jeans.

Speaker 3 I bought you those jeans because I'm your mom and I wanted to buy you those jeans. Now I'm holding that shit over your head.
This is why women are psycho, because we moms are screwing them up.

Speaker 3 Like I'm like, I literally, like everyone's complaining about like the 20-somethings. I'm like, we better stop complaining about 20-somethings because we raised them.

Speaker 3 I screwed this up so much because I, I was telling you, I, I just had that sort of, okay, I call my brother, he better call me back.

Speaker 3 And if he doesn't call me back, now I'm going to notice that he's not calling me back. We're keeping score with one another instead of really

Speaker 3 just letting people like be who they are and letting them be who they're not. And also,

Speaker 3 I think everybody right now is going through a lot.

Speaker 3 And when you start to say let them, even to the person that might be rude with you, I was somewhere today and, you know, there was a particular person who just had this edge that's so unnecessary.

Speaker 2 Nicole Kidman.

Speaker 3 I didn't meet her. I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 She seems amazing.

Speaker 2 I tried to kiss her on the lips. You did?

Speaker 3 How did that go? Not well. Wait, but she's like a lot taller than you.

Speaker 2 Were you wearing heels? No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 it was so fucking awkward. It was.
Were you drunk? No, I was stone sober. And my wife was next to me.

Speaker 2 It was, it was New Year's Eve, and we were all celebrating New Year's Eve together, and everyone was just kissing everybody.

Speaker 2 And, like, and, and I was, and like, I kissed Bunny, I kissed Jelly, I kissed my wife, I kissed Keith Urban. And then I just went to go kiss her, and she was like,

Speaker 2 and I was like, ah, fuck, what am I doing? Why would I do that?

Speaker 2 And then I laid in bed with that the whole next day.

Speaker 3 Letter, letter. Like I, like, I.
Letter. But also, the context of that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 Letter.

Speaker 3 Let her. Let her have her opinion about you because she probably doesn't have a bad opinion about you.
But you're now.

Speaker 2 You're not cover me.

Speaker 3 Probably not, but you're the one now that is torturing yourself.

Speaker 2 I just wish I wasn't always me.

Speaker 2 Like sometimes, like, even I just told you half of the story. Okay.

Speaker 2 I didn't tell you the part where when I went into kiss her and she pulled back, I then I was like, I'm really excited for your new movie. She was like, huh?

Speaker 2 I was like, the one where you have sex with the young guy? She was like.

Speaker 2 And so then I was like, why the fuck?

Speaker 3 Wait, was that the one with the, were you talking about somebody else's movie?

Speaker 2 I don't know. I just said that.
It was so awkward, Mel.

Speaker 2 I have a, I have,

Speaker 2 I'm, yeah, I'm my own worst enemy. I get so excited in moments.
I think I live outside myself. And, and by the way, as you're talking about all this shit, my dad, I need you to meet my dad because

Speaker 2 there's so much son pack there. I love the guys.

Speaker 2 I think I love him too much. Is it possible to love your parent too much? Well,

Speaker 3 is it that you love him, or is that you really need him to approve of everything?

Speaker 3 Because those are two different things.

Speaker 2 It's the second. Okay.
But I love him. Of course.
But his approval is the most important thing for me. Yes.

Speaker 2 Like, yeah.

Speaker 3 But that's, but here's what I want to keep validating. That's a really awesome thing to want people that you love to be proud of you and to know that they can rely on you.

Speaker 3 And it doesn't mean that you have to do absolutely everything that he needs you to do. Like the beautiful thing about human beings is that we can feel lots of different things.

Speaker 3 So if we go back to the disappointment thing,

Speaker 3 there are going to be moments where you disappoint your dad.

Speaker 3 And when you say, let him, let him be disappointed, it just means that he expected me to do something different and he can be disappointed and still love me. Think about how many people piss you off.

Speaker 3 They don't do what you want them to do.

Speaker 3 You have an opinion in your mind that if only they were more motivated, or if this,

Speaker 3 and you have all this critical shit about this other person, and you still love them.

Speaker 3 And if they really needed you, you would be there.

Speaker 3 So we know that we do that for other people.

Speaker 3 And yet we don't understand that other people can feel two things about us at once. This is marriage, by the way, right? Because there are times where Leanne hates you.

Speaker 3 There are times where Chris hates me. And he also loves me to death.

Speaker 2 This morning she hated my guts.

Speaker 3 Okay, what did you do?

Speaker 2 I gave her a hug and she had a headache and she goes, don't you dare touch me. Don't, don't, you, dare, touch me.
I'm going to know.

Speaker 2 And then I, but then I did, I was really good today as I was like, she's got a headache.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I was in such a good mood. I was in such a good mood.
I said, I'm not going to let this affect me. Great.
And I gave her space.

Speaker 2 And by the time we pulled up to the airport, her headache medication kicked in and she was like, I'm sorry. And I was like, hey, it's okay.
I'm here for you. Wait, I got to ask you some questions.

Speaker 2 I haven't asked you any questions. I don't think.

Speaker 2 I think I've just listened to, and this is, I'm, this is, I hope our listeners are letting this soak in the way this is soaking in with me because that's the beautiful thing about this book is that it

Speaker 3 it's a great book to buy for other people and i'll tell you why because you've been trying to change them your entire life turn them over to me and

Speaker 2 well

Speaker 2 my wife got me this book yep that's why oh yep that's why hold on she

Speaker 3 This is going to be

Speaker 2 fucking kidding me, Leah.

Speaker 3 This is the best holiday present, the best graduation gift, because you literally are going to give people their power back, their time back, their energy back, and you free yourself of the burden of now trying to change everybody in your life.

Speaker 3 This book has brought so many families together because we've all been so busy judging each other and being pissed off and being transactional.

Speaker 3 And I want to host Thanksgiving and you don't do this and you're not helping. And in all that judgment, we actually distance ourselves from people.

Speaker 3 And when you're just like, let my sister be a bitch today, you know, let my mom, you know, be annoying. Let my dad, you know, do whatever he's going to do.
I mean, they're 80 years old.

Speaker 3 Learn to love them as they are. And when you learn to see people as they are and as they're not, you

Speaker 3 are less stressed and you're not bracing. You have this kind of looseness to you.
And it gives you so much power because you can see exactly what's happening.

Speaker 3 It's how you take responsibility and how you take your power back. And look at the word responsibility.
Responsibility is just the ability to respond.

Speaker 2 Do that again.

Speaker 3 Responsibility.

Speaker 2 Responsibility.

Speaker 3 Is the ability to respond.

Speaker 2 So if you're responsible, you're just

Speaker 2 able to be able to respond. People can trust that you're going to respond.

Speaker 3 Yes, and that you're able, no, but who, who,

Speaker 3 who trusts? You do. I can trust in my ability to respond to what life

Speaker 3 is throwing at me in a way where I may not get it right, but I'll know I did my best. I trust in my ability.

Speaker 3 Like a big thing for me, one of the things that I really struggled with is I was like a walking volcano.

Speaker 3 Really? Well, I just had so much

Speaker 3 pent up anxiety and frustration with myself. And, you know, just to give you a little bit of the backstory, I found out at the age of 47 that I had ADHD.

Speaker 3 And women are women and girls, rather, girls and boys are dealing with ADHD at roughly the same levels. But in the 1970s, when it was studied, they only looked at boys.

Speaker 2 It was just boys.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, I'm your age. What am I talking about? Yeah.
I was like, that's funny. That thing happened to me.

Speaker 3 Yes. And so they only looked at boys and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And when you look at the symptoms and how they present in boys and girls, boys tend to be a little bit more physical and fidgety and, you know, interrupt class and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 Girls have the opposite effect. What happens is you get quiet and you start to get very self-critical and you start to pull back a little bit.

Speaker 3 And what the medical experts say is that the number one symptom that happens when a kid, boy or girl,

Speaker 3 has undiagnosed ADHD, ADD, or something like dyslexia, which I also have and did not know until I was 47.

Speaker 2 Usually say

Speaker 3 dyslexia, yeah.

Speaker 2 By the way, my ADHD kicked in so much that I didn't hear the word dyslexia. And I was like, wait, what are we talking about? I have dyslexia too.
Yes. So does my daughter.
My daughter got it wild.

Speaker 3 Yes. And it's this incredible gift if you know that you have it.
Yes. Yes.
Because your brain, well, we'll get in that later.

Speaker 3 But so if you are sitting in a classroom all day and your brain developmentally cannot do what is being asked of you, whether it's to be able to direct your focus or just quiet your body or be able to pay attention to the teacher versus the grumbling in your stomach or hearing the people overhear,

Speaker 3 what develops on the surface is anxiety.

Speaker 3 Of course it would, because you're in a situation where you're bracing because you know everybody else seems to have it together, but your like insides are on fire.

Speaker 2 Like when the teacher would go, all right, let's pull out our notes, our notebooks, let's take notes. Well, I would just sit there and go, what words do we write down?

Speaker 2 And I'd do the thing because it was like

Speaker 2 you put one and then A with a thing like that. Yep.
And I would be like, like an outline. And I go, um,

Speaker 2 notes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then I'd be like,

Speaker 2 and then I'd look at other people's notes.

Speaker 2 Okay, write down Jesus of Nazareth or whatever. And I never, I've never studied for a test.
I don't know how I graduated college. I don't know how I graduated high school.

Speaker 2 I don't know how I ever, I still have a hard time telling you information. You can tell me something and I just, and I totally forget it.
And the anxiety I had growing up was

Speaker 2 wild.

Speaker 2 Of course. Just wild.

Speaker 3 But doesn't it make sense?

Speaker 2 Now it does. Yeah.
And thank God because it turned out good. But I feel for all those people listening right now going, wait, I got that shit.
And I'm working at Walmart.

Speaker 2 You go, yeah, I know that happens too.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And look,

Speaker 3 Walmart's a great company to work for. Like, there's no shame in working at Walmart.

Speaker 3 Like, I think that the thing, the thing that is really important to understand is that if there were, if you had an issue with the way that you learn or with the ability to focus when you needed to, and it did not get addressed, what develops on the outside is anxiety.

Speaker 3 And what happened with, they call us the lost generation of women. There were almost two decades of us, women who had dyslexia or ADHD or ADD, who we didn't know.

Speaker 3 And all of a sudden, you become the psycho chick that I used to be. And now you have chronic anxiety.
I used to chug milk of melanta, the blue bottle

Speaker 3 before a track meet because my

Speaker 3 stomach was on fire. I couldn't get myself to focus.
I like the anxiety after being in class all day and terrified that I'm going to get called on and I don't know what's happening.

Speaker 3 It just spirals. And so there's decades long women who were medicated for anxiety when the primary issue was a learning style difference or a focus and neurodivergent thing like ADD or ADHD.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 do you know the number one way that women find out that they have ADD or ADHD?

Speaker 2 Oprah. Nope.

Speaker 3 You have a kid who's struggling in school and you go through the neuropsych process. You got one of those? Oh, you have all my kids.
Like all three of our kids have dyslexia. For real?

Speaker 3 All three of them. And two of them have also have struggled with ADHD.
But here's that our son Oakley was really having a hard time in school and the anxiety was through the roof.

Speaker 3 And everybody kept saying, he was in fourth grade, like, no, it's behavior. No, it's behavior.
And I'm like, no, I know my kid. Like, he's not.

Speaker 3 And he was starting to develop these bruises on his hands. And he would come home and I'm like, did you go to fight? What's going on? And he'd start crying.
He's like, I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 And then I realized, oh my God, he's wringing his hands

Speaker 3 in class to the point where he is bruising his own hands because he is so anxious. And so luckily, this was at a point where we could afford to get a neuropsych exam.

Speaker 3 And as we get the results back, and I'm going over them with our pediatrician,

Speaker 3 he's reading through, he's got dyslexia this and he's going through it. I'm like, God, that sounds a lot like me.
I'm like, Dr. Blumenthal, do you think I might have ADHD?

Speaker 3 And he turns and he looks at me and he goes, do I think you,

Speaker 3 Mel,

Speaker 3 you're the most ADHD parent I have in my practice. Do you know every

Speaker 3 beginning of every school year,

Speaker 3 we're waiting for you to call in a panic because you have forgotten their well appointment.

Speaker 3 And now the like physicals are due and your kids now can't play sports and and you're in a panic to get them in. You are the, and I looked at him, and you know what I said? Why didn't you tell me?

Speaker 3 He was like, I'm not your doctor.

Speaker 3 I was 47 when that happened. I went and got evaluated.

Speaker 3 I tried Adderall for the, it was like everything

Speaker 3 went.

Speaker 3 And I got to tell you, I felt so

Speaker 2 sad

Speaker 3 for the teenager 20

Speaker 3 to that and I feel so and this is kind of one of the things that drives me is that there were so many times in my life where I like hurt myself or I hurt other people

Speaker 3 because I didn't know like what I was dealing with and I didn't know how to like get myself out of like the the the

Speaker 3 behavior or the thoughts. I didn't know that other people felt this way.
I didn't even know how to talk about it. I mean, I'm 57.
So 30 years ago, you wouldn't be caught dead in a self-help aisle.

Speaker 3 Nobody went to a therapist. Like, give me a break.
And so we suffered alone.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it's probably why I would constantly be drinking all the time because it quieted my brain. I just didn't know.

Speaker 2 We took Isla to Brain Camp. I don't know what's called.
Is there such a thing? It's cool. We called it.
We called it Brain Camp. I don't sure there's like a real name for it.

Speaker 2 I don't know. It's like a therapy.
It's like it was like brain therapy. Yeah.
Dyslexia ADD. It just, Isla was, Isla was,

Speaker 2 there was a lot going on. Did it help? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think.

Speaker 3 Well, I think it also helps to know that it's not you and to also know you're not the only one.

Speaker 2 The lady was explaining what was going on with Isla to me and Leanne.

Speaker 2 And she said, you know, usually this has, there's a parent that has this.

Speaker 2 Leanne's like. Leanne looked at me and I wasn't listening.
And I was doing what my brain does. And she goes, Mr.
Chrysler. And I went, are you from Edmonton? She said, excuse me.

Speaker 2 I said, where are you from in Canada? She goes, I'm from Edmonton. I said, just outside Edmonton.
She goes, yeah. I go, you have a boyfriend with a truck? She was like, why does this matter?

Speaker 2 I go, did you? She goes, yeah. And I went, cool.
And they go, you know what we're talking about? And I was like, no, what are we talking about? I just, whatever my brain was doing was.

Speaker 2 on that yeah and that was my skill set and i have no ability to listen i have zero ability to, and I feel bad.

Speaker 2 It's almost nice when you said that when you're getting a little emotional, I was like, yeah, I could forgive myself for a lot of this shit where I was just

Speaker 2 like fucking lost.

Speaker 2 Like I had no coping skills. Wait.
So then a weird sidebar question.

Speaker 2 I'm always fascinated by

Speaker 2 you. are these this

Speaker 2 for lack of better words uh not fully processed human all the way up to like 54. And then all of a sudden, life changes and you become everyone's answer.

Speaker 2 Everyone looks to you, and all of a sudden you have wealth and you have everything you've ever wanted.

Speaker 2 What's 54 to 55 look like? That had to be confusing, right?

Speaker 3 Okay, so

Speaker 3 this is, since you and I are both crazy ADHD and the same person, I'm going to take us all the way back to the beginning. Okay.
When you asked the question, how

Speaker 3 did Mel Robbins that we see today

Speaker 3 get here?

Speaker 3 And now we'll go to the part of the story where I'm 41 years old and my husband's gone into the restaurant business. And I love this, by the way.

Speaker 2 I love this part of the story, I think.

Speaker 3 So we got three kids under the age of 10. My husband has been laid off from like the seventh job that he has had because he is now, he's trying to climb the corporate ladder.

Speaker 3 He's trying to, you know, prove to his dad who has died that he can be successful. And

Speaker 3 my husband is not motivated by money. He's not motivated by status.
The man would live in a yurt if I would allow it. I will not.

Speaker 3 But that's a whole different conversation.

Speaker 3 He is

Speaker 3 such an extraordinary human being, and he is just, there's nothing corporate about the guy. So he gets laid off and comes home and says,

Speaker 3 I lost a job again.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 am pregnant with our son, who's now 20.

Speaker 3 And he said, I said, no problem, no problem. You know, you could get another job, honey.
We're going to

Speaker 3 like, I'm trying to pick up my man, you know? And he's like, no, I don't, I don't think I'm going to get another job.

Speaker 3 I was like, excuse me?

Speaker 3 He's like, yeah, I'm tired of working for other people and trying to sell things that I don't believe in. I'm not going to do that anymore.
And

Speaker 3 I look down. We bought this old fixer-upper.
It has raccoons living inside of it. You know, we were the whole buy the cheapest house you can find and the best name.
We bought like Amnieville horror.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I'm, you know, working full-time. And I'm like, is there like a trust fund I don't know about? Like, what do you mean you're not going to work? And he said, no, I'm just tired of being miserable.

Speaker 3 I, and we got in this, we got in a huge fight. We fought for a month on end.

Speaker 2 Fighting with you is so confusing.

Speaker 3 Well, cause back then I also would fight when I'm mean. I got, I, I'm like a mean fighter.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 Oh, come on now. Are you being serious?

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 usually I get lost in fights and I can't remember.

Speaker 3 Oh, you're like the kitchen sink. You throw this shit and you try to confuse us.

Speaker 2 No, Leanne will confuse me, especially if I'm drinking and then I'll be in the fight going, wait, what are we fighting about? I forgot. And all I know is I'm fighting to say she's gaslighting me me.

Speaker 2 And she never says that she never missed a gaslighting me. But I know she's gaslighting me.
But I can't remember what the original fight was about. But I bet you.

Speaker 3 Oh, no. I, I, one of the things that I've worked very hard on is to get, you talked about like holding a ground.
I, I do not want any of that anger energy in me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I just don't. Like I, I.

Speaker 3 Feel like if you're somebody that's very self-critical and you're frustrated with yourself, that frustration with yourself can come out and you can lash out at the people you care about most.

Speaker 3 And then once it's out of your mouth, you cannot like claw it back in. And then I was the person that was constantly apologizing to my kids and my husband for my tone of voice.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 Okay. I did not want to be that person.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 And so.

Speaker 2 My daughter, Georgia, said, just so you know,

Speaker 2 when you yell, that's as bad as it's going to get. So why wouldn't I lie? Because

Speaker 2 what if I get best case scenario, you don't find out and I don't get yelled at. Yeah.
But you're just going to yell.

Speaker 2 And if I lie, you're just going gonna yell more so yes maybe try not yelling and i was like huh

Speaker 2 and then i i was in therapy at the time and i took that to therapy and i and i was like all right maybe if i don't yell at all maybe if i just try to listen to her or and then the next time she took her car out she had friends in it and she wasn't supposed to and i was like she came back you could see it in her eyes he's gonna yell she was like go ahead give it to me like almost like all right how bad can this be i've been here before yep and i said

Speaker 2 you're not in trouble i understand you break the rules. All I want you to do is write like a thousand words.

Speaker 2 Not tonight. You can go out with your friends.
Write a thousand words on why you think that upsets me and mom. And she started bawling, crying.
She was like, Wait, you're not going to yell at me?

Speaker 2 And I was like, No. I go, You saw yelling doesn't work.
And she was like, I know what you're saying.

Speaker 2 The tone keep going.

Speaker 3 No, that's okay. Don't apologize.
It's a great, great story. And I think it's very helpful to hear it.
I, um,

Speaker 3 so I gotta get, I gotta hand it to Chris. Like, he really just

Speaker 3 stood up, said, no, we're doing it. And I said, fine,

Speaker 3 let's sit down and look at the money. And by cutting back, he could do a 16-month runway.

Speaker 3 And if the restaurant was open by then, we couldn't afford to open the restaurant.

Speaker 3 But if they raise money and if they could get the cash register ringing, And if they could make a certain amount of money by a certain amount of time, he didn't have to get a job.

Speaker 3 But if 16 months went by, and I'm talking like nobody wants to do this, like everybody wants to talk how they're struggling.

Speaker 3 But, you know, if you really are struggling with money, the first place you have to look is actually where your money is going because the average person in the United States has over $700 in subscriptions that are sucked out of your paycheck.

Speaker 2 What's the name of the podcast sponsor? You have to do work with these people.

Speaker 2 We have a podcast sponsor who goes through and gets your subscription. Oh, rocket.
Is it rocket money? Is it rocket money? It's rocket money. They fucking rock.

Speaker 3 Why you wouldn't use this? I don't know, because you're going to see so much stuff that is sucked out of your paycheck.

Speaker 2 It's crazy how much money they can save you.

Speaker 3 Crazy. Keep going.
I apologize. So anyway, so we did all that.
We cut back. And by God, they got the restaurant open.
And it was amazing. Amazing.

Speaker 3 40-seat local pizza joint, you know, working with the local farm. It was amazing.
And then like complete idiots, we ignored everybody's advice. And we cashed out the 401ks.

Speaker 3 We cashed out our kids' mediocre college funds. We took out a home equity line because that's free money.

Speaker 3 We got every credit card we possibly could because what could possibly go wrong in the restaurant business?

Speaker 2 Friends and family invest.

Speaker 3 Did I tell you this was 2007, 2008? No.

Speaker 3 When the world turned upside down? No.

Speaker 2 Oh, shit.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 location number two was the wrong location. This happens every restaurant tour will tell you restaurant business is a wonderful restaurant for the person who buys the restaurant from you.

Speaker 3 But if you are lucky enough to get beyond one location out of the first three or four, one of them is going to fail, and that's likely why you will fail. And so it was location number two for them.

Speaker 3 Twice as expensive, wrong location, knew it from the beginning. Six weeks in, they knew it.
They just knew it.

Speaker 3 And by that point, it had showed up all the money that they had raised to get the third one open. So now we're factoring.
Now we're doing a lease plus.

Speaker 3 And, you know, to speak to, and this is something that's really important to remember in a relationship:

Speaker 3 Remember who you married.

Speaker 3 Because in those moments where life gets really hard, you forget. And then you turn the person who's trying their best into

Speaker 3 the monster.

Speaker 3 And when

Speaker 3 life gets really hard, and it will for all of us, you want to remember who you married. Because again,

Speaker 3 Nobody's trying to fuck you over. Nobody's trying to screw things up.
Nobody's trying to go bankrupt.

Speaker 3 Life is so hard. And, you know, one of the things that I really regret is that as, you know, the liens hit the house, I lose my job.
Fuck.

Speaker 3 We have three kids under the age of 10, that I made Chris the enemy.

Speaker 3 Because it's easier to be angry than it is to be afraid. And I was so afraid.
I had never in a million years thought,

Speaker 3 oh, my dream for my life.

Speaker 3 I'd love to be a million dollars in debt. Let's have liens on the house.
Let's make a vision board with bankruptcy and divorce on it. Let's throw up some alcoholic anonymous up there.

Speaker 3 That's the dream for my life.

Speaker 3 And so again, to this point where we all want to do well, we all want to thrive. Life is going to happen.
Life is not fair. I don't think things happen for a reason.
I think things happen.

Speaker 3 And then it's on you to find a reason to keep going.

Speaker 2 The most important thing I've heard you say this whole fucking podcast

Speaker 2 is: remember who you married. Because, god damn it.

Speaker 2 Leanne, you remember when Priscilla had her knee

Speaker 2 edit this shit out.

Speaker 3 Don't you dare.

Speaker 3 Don't you dare edit this out.

Speaker 2 Our dog had like fucking five knee surgeries. And Leanne dealt with all of it.
I was on the road and she took him to the vet that was like,

Speaker 2 you know, 10 minutes away. And the vet was a hack.
I mean, he left a wire in her knee at one point. And it was so painful for the dog to, but for the girls to deal with the dog.

Speaker 2 And then we found this really great vet, but it was so fucked up.

Speaker 2 You had to get on the five and then you you got off the five and his office was on the on ramp like it was so it was so hard to get to and you had to get the dog in the car i mean it was such a nightmare and she had two young kids and then that doctor was like oh i wish you had found me first i was so mad at leanne

Speaker 2 as if she wanted the dog to go through pain as if she wanted to look silly as if she wanted to be blamed that if we had just gone to this first doctor and i was so mad at her.

Speaker 2 And I, not that I, I mean, I

Speaker 2 haven't been holding on to it, but when you said that, I was like,

Speaker 2 remember who I married? She didn't want that shit to happen.

Speaker 2 And if it had been me, and I had two young girls at home, and my wife was gone, and this dog needed knee surgery, absolutely, I would have gone to the closest vet to get it done. What do I know?

Speaker 2 We are not dog experts,

Speaker 2 but it's so funny it's so much easier it's so much easier to go none of this is my fault this is all your fault yeah

Speaker 2 oh wow so wait how did you wait

Speaker 2 tell me what happens with chris

Speaker 3 chris is amazing but so so like i turn him in like as if he's trying to fail yeah as if he wanted to go the guy the guy literally they're bouncing payroll checks we we we have we're 800 000 in debt.

Speaker 3 We have liens on the house. The phone starts ringing.
It's collectors.

Speaker 3 I unplug the phone as if that's going to make it go away. The bills start piling up on the kitchen counter.
And if you've ever been in this situation, you know

Speaker 3 one of the hardest things in the world is to open a bill.

Speaker 2 I've never done it.

Speaker 3 I used to do this thing at the grocery store where you know they'd be scanning the items I knew there was no money in the account

Speaker 3 I was unemployed

Speaker 3 I knew there was no money and they're like debit or credit and I'm like credit hoping that there's a glitch somehow in the electrical wires and when this sucker swipes they're gonna let it go through

Speaker 3 And they'd be like, I'm sorry, it didn't go through. And I had it rehearsed.
I would cock my head and I'd go, go, oh, that's weird. It just worked at the gas station.
Come on, kids.

Speaker 3 I've got another cart out in the car. And we would leave and drive away.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I became a person I did not recognize. I literally drank myself into the ground.
I would lay in bed. And the alarm would ring.
And I'd be like, I hate my life. I hate Chris.
I hate, fuck this.

Speaker 3 Like I would hit the snooze button four, five, six times every morning. You want to know how you know you're failing at parenting? Your kids wake you up

Speaker 3 and you are hung over in your bed after hitting the snooze button four or five times

Speaker 3 because they've missed the bus.

Speaker 3 And that's where my story begins.

Speaker 3 On the verge of losing everything, like being a complete bitch to my husband who's doing everything he can to figure this out drinking myself into the ground and and this sets up kind of the core of what i started talking about which is you can know what to do

Speaker 2 that just makes you smart oh and and and and and when you talk about being uncomfortable the hardest thing to do in that situation you're angry at your husband you're your your kids or you know and you're drinking the hardest thing to do is go i'm not going to drink tonight because it's so easy to drink tonight.

Speaker 2 A glass of wine is the one solace you have in that day. Is, hey, I get a glass of wine at the end of this night, and I'm making this all go away.

Speaker 2 The next morning, you're like, God damn it, I'm in the same fucking spot.

Speaker 3 Yes, yes. And so, this was like day after day.
After I knew what I needed, I needed to find a job. I needed to call my parents and tell them what was going on and ask for help.

Speaker 3 I needed to tell my friends what was going on, but some of them,

Speaker 3 they'd invested in the business. I needed to like start, I needed to exercise because I was so stressed.
I needed to eat better. I needed to have one bourbon, not four.

Speaker 3 And so when people ask me, how did you get where you are? The answer is I learned how to get out of bed on the mornings I didn't feel like it. And the story is very dumb, but this is what happened.

Speaker 3 I was sitting in our living room. Chris was nowhere to be found because he's a very smart man.
It's like, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to be near her.

Speaker 3 And I'm watching TV and I'm having one of those pep talks that you have with yourself when you're like near in the rock bottom. And you're, I was like, all right, that's it, woman.

Speaker 2 Tomorrow morning, it's a new you.

Speaker 3 Tomorrow morning, you have got to find a job. You have got to tell your, you have got to stop screaming at Chris.
You've got to stop drinking so much. You got to pull your shit together, woman.

Speaker 3 And by God, when that alarm rings, you cannot lay there like a human pot roast marinating in fear. You have got to get out of bed and get those kids on that bus.

Speaker 3 And all of a sudden, this rocket ship launches across the television screen. And I'm like, I was so drunk, I'm like, it's a sign from God.
I hear you, Lord. Like, I'll do it.

Speaker 3 I'll launch out of bed like a rocket ship. I could have so easily

Speaker 3 just

Speaker 3 dismissed that moment. I could have so easily, like, I often think about that sliding door moment because I do believe you're one decision away from a different life.

Speaker 2 100 fucking percent.

Speaker 3 Now,

Speaker 3 that's what changes the trajectory of your life, one decision. The results show up over time.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 And so you have to keep making the one decision that keeps you moving in the right direction. But for me, that one decision was the very next morning, it was a Tuesday morning in February, 2008.

Speaker 3 The alarm goes off. And let's use the alarm clock as a metaphor, right?

Speaker 3 For all the alarms that go off inside you every day, your intuition, your confidence, your desire to thrive and do better. It is sounding all day long in small ways.
So the alarm goes off.

Speaker 3 And I immediately remembered the rocket launch. I mean,

Speaker 3 I'm the one that set the alarm.

Speaker 3 If you're really thinking about it, you know what to do. Getting out of bed is technically simple,

Speaker 3 but some days it feels like climbing Everest.

Speaker 3 And so the alarm rings, I remember that idea. And then this is when I saw something that changed my entire life.
And this was the beginning.

Speaker 3 This would lead to the beginning of talking about the things that I was fucking up and that I was learning. And it leading 16 years later to this moment.
So the alarm goes off.

Speaker 3 And what happens in life is we make this fatal mistake where you hesitate and you stop and think

Speaker 3 about whether or not you feel like doing what you need to do. How many of us have stayed in a relationship for six months, six years, six weeks too long?

Speaker 3 Because we walk, today I'm having that conversation. Today I'm having that conversation.
And then you're like, hi, honey, you way wee? And you're like,

Speaker 3 I don't think I feel like one of the reasons. And next thing you know, you're sliding into the life you don't want.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so I see this, and there's this five-second window that defines your whole life.

Speaker 2 I love this. This is your first book, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I love this. I fucking love this.

Speaker 3 It literally is this five-second way. It defines your whole life.
It's this moment between knowing what to do

Speaker 3 and actually doing it. And if you think about doing something for more than five seconds, the brain science is very clear.
Within five seconds,

Speaker 3 all motivation is gone. The automatic parts of your brain and all the old habits that you have kick in.

Speaker 3 This five-second moment of hesitation, that's where all the excuses, all the anxiety, all the habits, all it all kicks in. It's all in this one.

Speaker 3 You either win in that five-second moment or you're fucked, or I was. And so, that morning, I started thinking, I don't want to get out of bed.
It's cold, it's dark, we're 800.

Speaker 3 I hate my husband, I hate my life, like just reaching for the Suzuka button. I just started counting backwards: five, four, three, two, one.
And then I stood up. And I'll tell you,

Speaker 3 it's the smallest thing, but even in that first morning, it felt like a victory.

Speaker 3 Not like a victory, like, yeah,

Speaker 3 but just like this, oh.

Speaker 3 Because it was the first morning in six months that the anxiety and the depression and the anger didn't win.

Speaker 3 It was the first morning that the person that I wanted to be

Speaker 3 acted

Speaker 3 consistently with who I knew deep down I could be.

Speaker 3 And the thing

Speaker 3 I will tell you is that you will never feel ready to change your life.

Speaker 3 But at any moment, you can decide that where you're at no longer works. It just doesn't feel good.

Speaker 3 Maybe it worked last year. Maybe it worked for the last 10 years.
But if there's an area of your life that you just it just doesn't feel like the way you want it to feel,

Speaker 3 the most beautiful thing about the human experience is we are actually wired to change. And

Speaker 3 it can take hold pretty quickly. Doesn't mean it's easy.

Speaker 2 It's not easy. And it feels

Speaker 2 that thing you said, it feels so fucking good.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 It feels crazy, almost like an awakening. Yes.

Speaker 3 Like yes, but it doesn't sustain you.

Speaker 3 So here's, so, so I always say to people, if you want to know how I, how I became the person that you see now, it's because I taught myself how to get out of beds on the mornings I didn't fucking feel like it.

Speaker 3 And that skill of being able to act no matter how your emotions

Speaker 3 feel,

Speaker 3 that is the skill that everybody needs to know. Like if you're struggling with depression, your emotion and the disease is lying to you.

Speaker 3 And everything that your doctors are telling you to do, you're actually capable of doing, but it's going to require you

Speaker 3 to force yourself. And it's like moving through mud to do the things everybody's recommending that do work,

Speaker 3 knowing that you're not going to feel like it. And I, and I also want to say something, I hate all that research that says it takes 21 days to make a habit.
I think that's complete horseshit.

Speaker 3 That's only true if you like it.

Speaker 3 I am a person who to this day hates getting out of bed.

Speaker 3 There is just something in my wiring. I hate getting out of bed.
And just this morning, 5'4-3,

Speaker 3 I have to use this because, you know, I pick up the dog shit. I don't want to pick it up.

Speaker 3 I pick it up. I don't like unloading the the dishwasher.
I do it. You can make yourself do the things you don't feel like doing.

Speaker 3 And if you develop that as a habit, you will actually have everything you've ever wanted in life over time. And so the shorter version of the story is I used it.
The only person I told was my husband.

Speaker 3 And I used this little countdown thing, 54321,

Speaker 3 from 2008 to 2011. I probably used it 25 times a day.
5431, pick up the phone. Tell people you need a job.
54321, go for a walk. 5431, don't buy that thing at DSW.
5431.

Speaker 2 Listen to what she's saying. 54321.
I don't want to date right now. You don't want to date that girl anymore.
You're done with her. Don't cheat on her.

Speaker 2 Just 54321, make the call, send a text, say, we have to have dinner. I need to tell you.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I need to talk to you.

Speaker 2 That's it.

Speaker 3 People are never going to feel like it. And by the way, if it feels hard, that's a good thing because it means you care about this person.

Speaker 3 Like,

Speaker 3 the important things in life feel hard. Everybody wants wants to tell the story, the rags to riches story of, you know, I was sleeping in my car

Speaker 3 and now I'm here, but nobody wants to sleep in their car. Like this is the price you pay to have the things in your life that you want.
And it's not easy.

Speaker 3 And I will tell you that those three years, they were grueling. It is not easy to work three jobs.
It is not easy to take a breath before you walk in and not vomit your stress on your family.

Speaker 3 It's not easy to have one bourbon instead of four.

Speaker 3 It's not easy to, you know, work all day at a job, put the kids to bed, make dinner, clean up, feed the dogs, and then try to figure out how to make more money. But that's what I did.

Speaker 3 Like everybody's like, how do you become? I'm like, it's boring. It's grueling.
It's you against you. That's what it is.
And it's what, and every day you wake up, you get another blank page.

Speaker 3 Are you going to do the things that are easy, which makes your life hard later on? Are you going to do the hard thing now so you can put your head on the pillow and be proud of yourself?

Speaker 3 Because you didn't let the emotions and the stress, which are very real, by the way, you are justified in feeling how you feel.

Speaker 3 Now, what are you going to do about it? And for me, I didn't want to lose a house. I didn't want my story to end at 41 that we went bankrupt.
I didn't want my marriage to implode.

Speaker 3 I didn't want to be an alcoholic. And there were days that I felt proud of myself.
There were so many days where I didn't. It's like,

Speaker 3 I kind of think like change, like you go up a flight of stairs, you hit a landing.

Speaker 3 Doesn't mean you didn't go up the flight of stairs.

Speaker 3 Then you're going to go up again.

Speaker 3 And so you're going to have days where you do well and then you're going to have days where you really blow it or weeks or months in my case.

Speaker 3 And the true test of who you are is what you do on the morning after a day that you blew it Because you get to choose, all right, am I going to just pound myself into the ground and be the one,

Speaker 3 the biggest obstacle in my own way? Because I am arguing against myself every step of the way, or am I going to brush myself off and I'm going to say some of the best days of my life are ahead of me.

Speaker 3 And through my attitude and my actions, if I just stay focused on today and if I just make decisions that based on the information I have, I'm making the best decision I can,

Speaker 3 that's my North Star. And so I did that for three years and we started to get back on track.
And we didn't pay off.

Speaker 3 We had liens on, like we had liens on the house for like years, like long time, because it takes a long, that's a lot of money. And so I

Speaker 3 have worked a couple jobs. I'm now like got a full-time job.
The restaurant business is still cratering, but they're at least able to like stabilize it. We're on payment plans for our credit cards.

Speaker 3 You know, we got the drinking under control. And somebody calls me and says,

Speaker 3 as a friend from college, she goes, you know, there's somebody doing an event in San Francisco and they're looking for somebody who's changed their job a lot. And I thought of you.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, that's not a compliment.

Speaker 3 And she goes, I said, okay. And she said, they're looking for somebody to talk about.
I'm like, well, I've never given a speech. And she said, well, they're offering.

Speaker 3 Two plane tickets to San Francisco and two nights at the St. Regis.
And if you're, you've got liens on your house, you know what that sounds like? A vacation.

Speaker 3 So my parents come babysit. My husband and I fly, hop on the plane.
This is 2011.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yep.

Speaker 3 And it didn't even occur to me

Speaker 3 to think about the speech. I've never told anybody about the five-second roll.
I really feel like I've been given this little secret thing from God or the universe, right?

Speaker 3 Only Chris and I know about it. And this 5-4-3-2-1 thing.
And this was one of the first ever TEDx conferences. I didn't even know what TED was.

Speaker 3 So I walk out on stage. If you look at my TEDx talk, which is now one of the most watched ones in the world,

Speaker 3 look closely at minute one.

Speaker 3 You will see that I have that neck rash that people get when they're wasted or they're having a panic attack.

Speaker 3 I am basically

Speaker 3 disassociated. I am having this huge anxiety moment, darting all over the stage, talking about career change.
I don't even remember being there.

Speaker 3 And at the end, about 19 minutes in, I look at it. I completely forget how to end it.

Speaker 3 And I look out at 700 people and I'm like,

Speaker 3 oh, there's this thing I do. I call it the five-second rule.
The moment you have an instinct to move, you got to move within five seconds or else your brain will kill your motivation to act.

Speaker 3 Thank you very much. Oh, and if you have questions, here's my email.
I leave.

Speaker 3 A year goes by.

Speaker 3 And they put it online. I don't even know.

Speaker 3 It starts to go viral. I'm busy working my job, paying my bills.
You know, we're just like normal, slugging it out. And all of a sudden, people start to email me at this email address.

Speaker 3 Oh, I saw that thing. I've been using the five.
I lost 100 pounds. Oh, my God.
I got sober because, oh my God,

Speaker 3 I didn't jump off a bridge

Speaker 3 because I stopped and counted five, four, three, two, one.

Speaker 3 Then like found the ability to ask for help. And people started to write about these incredible stories.
And I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it.
And I

Speaker 3 would work all day. And then I would come home and I would put the kids to bed, pour a glass of wine, and I would sit there and answer people's emails every night.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 in 2013,

Speaker 3 people started to ask me if I would come speak.

Speaker 3 for free, you know, to talk and redo the talk. And I had so many like stories of people.
And

Speaker 3 that's why I'm actually in Austin. Because in 2013, one of the first people to ever invite me to come speak and redo that talk was the Texas Conference for Women.

Speaker 3 And today I walked into Moody Stadium 13 years later

Speaker 3 and spoke at that same conference. Wow.
Only now I was the headliner.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 didn't know that normal people could get paid to speak. I I didn't have a book.
I wasn't anybody. I just was somebody who was trying to do a little better.

Speaker 3 And I got so much fulfillment just emailing back and forth with people around the world about how they were using this thing. And so long and the short of it is

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 had this experience where I was speaking for free at another conference because I just didn't know you could get paid because I'm an idiot.

Speaker 3 And somebody comes up to me at the end of 2013 and says, hey, you know, I spoke at one of the breakout sessions this morning and I just sat in your session and you were really great.

Speaker 3 And can I ask you a question, speaker to speaker? And I thought she was going to ask me like about the PowerPoint or something. And she goes, did you get your check yet? I said,

Speaker 2 check?

Speaker 3 You got paid for this?

Speaker 3 And she took a step back and was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 I just assumed. I just assumed you.

Speaker 3 And so I had

Speaker 3 like, I've had a couple moments in my life you I don't know if dudes do this but I've had a couple moments where you're in public and you

Speaker 3 just

Speaker 3 either get crushing news or you are so overwhelmed by like I don't even know how to feel and I don't want to cry in public or scream or punch a wall that you walk into a public bathroom and you then walk into a stall and shut the door and with your pants on you sit on the toilet and either cry or yell or like I've had a number often, but yeah, I can imagine that would happen.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so,

Speaker 3 and then I didn't know what to charge. And so, steal this because this is great.
If you don't know what to charge for your service, here's what you're going to do.

Speaker 3 The next time somebody calls you, because this was the little promise I made to myself, the next time somebody calls me,

Speaker 3 I'm going to use my own five-second rule and I'm going to stop myself from just saying yes. Yeah.
And so, and then I'm going to say, I think I'm available. What's your budget?

Speaker 3 And that's going to give me a clue as to like what the money is. Because also keep in mind, I still have liens on my house.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I am still

Speaker 3 like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. My husband is now in 2013 leaving the restaurant business.
He is a shell of himself. He believes he has failed.

Speaker 3 as a father, that he has failed to provide, that he has lost people's money. And so I'm also like in like kind of resentful bitch syndrome, you know, literally like, I can't rely on you.

Speaker 3 Like, I like, it's up to me. It's up to me.
And everybody's felt that. Again, you forget who you married.

Speaker 3 You forget that they were doing the best that they can. They were trying.
And you get to choose.

Speaker 3 Are you going to show up in a way that actually lifts somebody up so that they can do their best? Are you going to be part of the fucking pylon? You get to choose.

Speaker 2 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 And if you always assume good intent,

Speaker 3 you force yourself to take a step back and go, okay, like

Speaker 3 this may not be working, but is the way I'm responding to this person helping? Or is it actually making it worse? Because then you're part of the problem.

Speaker 3 And I was majorly part of the problem. This was not on Chris.

Speaker 3 I was a full participant in everything that happened in terms of us losing the money, in terms of us making dumb decisions, and then turning. against each other.
We were both full participants in it.

Speaker 3 Whether, you know, you might not be the person that lashes out like I am, because I like have the volcano anger.

Speaker 3 You might be the person that pulls back and then hides, but you still have the resentment inside you that's not getting expressed. And that shit does not disappear.
It explodes in other ways.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 I then was going to say, and this is what you say next, Favorite 51. They say what the budget is and you say, well, normally I'm double.
And then you wait. Okay, so two weeks later, the phone rings.

Speaker 3 The phone rings, and it's a guy named Darren. And he's calling from Dallas, Texas.
And he said, hey, my wife has seen this, you know, TEDx thing that you did.

Speaker 3 It's going viral on Facebook, and her company is doing a sales conference. And I've been in the speaking business for 20 years.

Speaker 3 And, you know, she asked me if I would just do her company a favor and call you up. And I said, Great.
Yeah, that sounds great. You know,

Speaker 3 what's the budget? He said, $10,000. I dropped the goddamn phone.

Speaker 2 I'm $331.

Speaker 3 Yes, I forgot the second part.

Speaker 3 But that was like three to four months of our mortgage.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 That was more money

Speaker 3 than I

Speaker 3 could imagine. That's a lot.

Speaker 3 And so I said yes. And then I felt so unworthy of that money

Speaker 3 that I hired a graphic designer and paid them $5,000

Speaker 3 because I believed that I needed the presentation to look like $10,000. And it was the best thing I could have done because it forced me to prepare.

Speaker 3 And there are moments in your life

Speaker 3 where you have an at-bat

Speaker 3 and when you step up to the plate, you want to fucking know it and you want to put in the work and you want to be able to fucking swing for the fence.

Speaker 3 And I felt so unworthy of that money that I, and, you know, I was so scared of the state that, you know, Chris was struggling and we were not out of the woods that I

Speaker 3 destroyed it on that stage. And the guy Darren was there and he came up to me and he said, oh my God, I've been in this business 20 years.
You are

Speaker 3 by far the best female seeker I've ever seen in my entire life. You're top two of all time, maybe even top one, who

Speaker 3 like runs your speaking business. And I said, you do.
And to this day, Darren Powell runs my speaking business

Speaker 3 i am not shitting you i am a person

Speaker 3 that is about people and loyalty and you got to pay attention

Speaker 3 to who is with you in the beginning you got to pay attention to who is there

Speaker 3 when it's not sexy Like lots of people want to be in your life. I call them the shiny people.
They want to be in your life when things are going well.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But you want to pay attention to and really value the people that were there in the dirt with you.

Speaker 2 Those ride or dives. Yes.

Speaker 3 And a lot of times they're, and they're all around you if you're willing to look for it.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I, I really, it's one of the things that I do respect a lot about myself is that a lot of people get a lot of success and then they forget that the people that were there in the beginning, they were also working for this success.

Speaker 3 Yes. And so don't be that person that's like, well, now that I'm making a lot of money, you shouldn't have have your 10%.

Speaker 2 Bullshit. Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so, and so

Speaker 3 I, within a year, had

Speaker 3 been booked 47 times

Speaker 3 while I was working a full-time job. That looks good.
The next year, I was, I did 97.

Speaker 3 Within three years, I was the most booked female speaker in the world. I said, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
So this goes back to your Netflix conversation.

Speaker 3 I would have literally,

Speaker 3 I would have done anything

Speaker 3 to have paid off those bills because my highest value was safety and

Speaker 3 taking care of my family. And so I spent 150 days a year on the road and it was not sexy shit.
I'm talking like the bouncy regional coach flight, landing at an airport at 11 o'clock at night.

Speaker 3 calling the cab, getting to the Marriott courtyard, stay like arriving at 12.30, taking my one outfit out and putting it in the shower and steaming it because I wanted to have a carry-on because I couldn't afford to miss a flight.

Speaker 3 So, I always had to have a carry-on. So, I wore the same thing all the time, and I would steam it in the shower in these hotels.

Speaker 3 And then I would go down to the end of the hallway and I'd be at a regional conference for realtors, you know, like doing the thing at night.

Speaker 3 And then I'd take a cab to the airport and I'd jump on another plane. I did this year after year after year.

Speaker 3 That's how we paid off the loan, the liens on our house, And it's how we got our savings back. And again, I was not the kind of person who was like, okay, now we got the money.

Speaker 3 Order the more expensive bottle of wine. I'm like, no, I got a dollar in.
I know what it's like. 50 cents in the bank.
Like we are not leveling up. We have got to restore order.

Speaker 3 And one of the interesting things that I realized is that it wasn't being on stage that lit me up.

Speaker 3 Because if you want to be

Speaker 3 like it, like what you do in your profession,

Speaker 3 being good at it is the price of entry. You have no fucking business doing anything like being on stage or doing what you do.
If you're not good, don't waste people's time.

Speaker 3 What makes you exceptional at something is all the little things that actually do matter.

Speaker 3 All the things that you're not getting paid for. And that has to do with how people feel when they work with you.
It has to do with how you show up. Do you manage your energy?

Speaker 3 For me, the bar was not whether or not I got a standing ovation. The bar was whether or not when I got off stage, the guys

Speaker 3 and gals that were running production were like, that was fucking great. Thank you.
I'm going to take that video and send that to my father-in-law because he needs to, he needs that stuff.

Speaker 3 Like his daughter's struggling with anxiety. I

Speaker 3 became so like energized by the conversations backstage, by bumping into people in the grocery store, Because as things started to spread, and I was super huge shout out to Gary Vee.

Speaker 3 One of these days, we will get our schedules aligned and actually fucking meet because I'm like the female version of Gary Vee.

Speaker 2 Gary Vee's a fascinating person.

Speaker 3 I literally watched him and was like, oh my God,

Speaker 3 why am I not filming all of the interactions with the people coming up to me? You know, the woman who...

Speaker 3 sat us at our table and was like, thank you. That 54321 thing helped my kid with anxiety.
Thank you. Thank you for putting out these videos.

Speaker 3 i'm like let's film this because that's going to help somebody and so that is what ignited my passion for creating content that is free i mean i don't sell anything it's a dumb business model but i i literally like what do i have a book Like I don't have a course to get like I'm not that's not my model.

Speaker 3 Like I am so excited. The podcast is free.
It's free.

Speaker 2 And by the way, it's fucking phenomenal.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 It's fucking phenomenal. You, my wife, my wife, as we were watching a video, my wife was pointing out certain episodes and she references it all the time.

Speaker 3 Well, what's interesting is I have a very different philosophy about podcasting because the whole intention is to create something

Speaker 3 so that one human being who has no time.

Speaker 3 So I'm talking an EMT, a nurse, a firefighter, a grandma that's watching, you know, the grandkids as mom and dad are working somewhere halfway around around the world that don't have the education system that, you know, you might have in your town that somebody who has no time

Speaker 3 made time to spend it with me.

Speaker 2 Ooh,

Speaker 2 I have a very good friend.

Speaker 2 I have a very good friend who said that same thing one time on a podcast. And I remember him saying that.
And it was, and it was like, when you went, oh, wow, maybe I should,

Speaker 2 maybe I should work a little harder at this.

Speaker 3 Well, you know, yes or no. It depends.
Like for me,

Speaker 3 I am on a mission to really help people see the possibilities of their lives and their relationships. That's.

Speaker 3 And for me,

Speaker 3 I am so grateful that all this happens so late in life because when you have an experience where you almost blow up everything that matters to you, you do not forget what matters.

Speaker 3 And I have become more successful than I ever even imagined possible. What more do you need?

Speaker 3 Like if I can save anybody the headaches, the heartaches that I've caused myself, that's why I do what I do.

Speaker 3 And we obsess over it because, you know, if you're going to give me your time, I want to make sure that if you actually make the time to listen, because think about podcasting.

Speaker 3 It is almost the only medium out there these days that you can't casually bump into.

Speaker 3 There is a conscious moment where a human being

Speaker 3 hits play.

Speaker 3 They chose it. And so I start with that premise and then I reverse engineer everything.

Speaker 3 For example, we don't number our episodes because I don't want you to be forwarded an episode by somebody and they go, there's 353 episodes. Uh-oh.
We have no insider conversations.

Speaker 3 Because here's the other really amazing statistic that I love about our show.

Speaker 3 So if you look at, you know, globally anywhere, depending upon whether it's a, you know, kind of time of year that people are listening to self, not, it's not even a show about self-improvement, life, January, September.

Speaker 3 We'll have anywhere between 9 and 11 million people listen to the show every week around the world. But here's the amazing part.
50% of them have never listened to a single episode.

Speaker 3 Because

Speaker 3 people have not only listened, they've taken the time to share it with somebody.

Speaker 3 Because they think this episode could be the surrogate for the conversation I want to have with you or this doctor or this expert or your story is exactly what my brother needs to hear.

Speaker 3 And so knowing that

Speaker 3 it's an intergenerational

Speaker 3 universal thing, like that is

Speaker 3 incredible.

Speaker 2 Mel, I could, I could sit and talk to you all day long.

Speaker 3 Well, I want you to come to Boston. I'm inviting you.

Speaker 2 Everyone's telling me that we need to wrap and I'm sure it's yours.

Speaker 3 Well, my bladder is so full right now and I do not wear a depends. So I can't just.
Have you ever done that on a cross-country road trip? Like peed into a kid's diaper?

Speaker 2 No, I peed in my pants, though.

Speaker 3 I bet there are a lot of women listening that know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 You are very special, and I'm so lucky to have met you. And

Speaker 2 I'm so lucky that

Speaker 2 you put out as much content as you do just to help people. And everyone should go get both of her books.

Speaker 3 You just learned about it here. You don't have to buy the book.
Buy the book for your family.

Speaker 2 Buy the book for your family like my wife did for me. And then she bought the audio book and said,

Speaker 2 I feel like you didn't read it. I want you to listen to the audio book.
And she's like, by the way, this is something we can listen to. You can play it when you sleep.

Speaker 2 Because I listen to podcasts we'll go to bed too. And I woke up to you crying and your thank yous.
Oh, yeah. And you were thanking your daughter, who was very pivotal in this.
She wrote it with me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. That's how I know it works because we,

Speaker 3 you have somebody in your life that you have a lot of friction with. And my oldest daughter, Sawyer, God, we wanted to be close, but there's just this like, what's the mismatch here? Yeah.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it's too long of a story to say how she came to write this with me because the one thing she knew she wanted in life was to never work with me.

Speaker 3 And then both of my daughters.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Well, you know, I actually think that's a cool thing for now because it means they want to make it on their own, which is a great thing. So good job, you guys, mom and dad.

Speaker 3 But they come around. And so she found herself in a situation where she needed money and I needed some research help.
And she's like an Excel spreadsheet on legs.

Speaker 3 And I'm like mice in a cardboard box that you tip over. And so we sat down and started working on this just as a research project.
And

Speaker 3 once we started, we were in. We fought all day long.

Speaker 3 Once a day, I'd be, she'd be like, watch your tone. I'd be like, you know what? You watch your tone.
And then I would go out of there and then we'd be in separate courts.

Speaker 2 Let her, let her, let, let, fuck the bitch, let her, let her.

Speaker 3 And then then you're like,

Speaker 3 let me be the bigger one, go heal my relationship. And then you come back together and the process of writing it together,

Speaker 3 we used it all day long with each other and it taught us how to actually

Speaker 3 stop judging and being so pissed off at each other and create this space where we could allow one another

Speaker 3 the grace to have emotions, to be disappointed, to have a bad day, and not take it personally

Speaker 3 and not feel like you need to fix it. Just let them.

Speaker 2 Just let them.

Speaker 2 And by the way, if you and Chris are in LA, I have to take you to dinner. I would love to.
Oh, we have to go out. I would love to

Speaker 2 see you.

Speaker 2 Let's go. No, we're going.

Speaker 2 No, absolutely.

Speaker 2 Leanna and I'll fly to Vermont.

Speaker 3 Come. Oh, my God.
Yes.

Speaker 2 You are. Please.

Speaker 2 The best. You're the best.
Ladies and gentlemen, Mel Robbins. Oh, I love you.

Speaker 3 I love you. And I I love you, Leanne.

Speaker 2 I feel like I have a sister. You do.
I do. I do, but I'll do it.
You do. You do.
Bert and Tom, Tom and Bert.

Speaker 2 One goes topless while the other wears a shirt. Tom tells stories and Bert's the machine.
There's not a chance in hell that they'll keep it clean. Here's what we call two bears, one cave.