Behind the Thrillers with Freida McFadden

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Speaker 2 Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird.

Speaker 2 It's your fae villain, Kale Lower.

Speaker 2 And you're listening to Barely Famous.

Speaker 2 What you guys don't see behind the scenes is that internally, I'm freaking the fuck out. I'm so fucking nervous.
I'm so nervous.

Speaker 2 I thought that maybe something would come up and she would cancel and then I just live through this anxiety again. But let's welcome Frida McFadden into the Barely Famous podcast.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Frida, for coming on Barely Famous Podcast. I'm so excited to have you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2 I have to tell my listeners a funny little story. You're familiar with it.
So I emailed Frida after I read, I think, one or two of your books, the first two that I ever read.

Speaker 2 And I emailed Frida and I was like, hey, if you want to collab on a book, like I'm totally down. And Frida emailed back and she's like, I don't do well with collabs, but like, thank you.

Speaker 2 And I thought that was so funny and honest. And I literally remember telling my hairstylist, because she's the one that got me into your books.
I said, I was just honored that you even said no to me.

Speaker 2 Like, that was fine. And I was completely okay with it because I was like, so many people will just ghost you and not answer.

Speaker 3 So it's cracking up.

Speaker 3 I mean, I was excited, but you know, there are still people that I know from like middle school who are mad at me. over like group projects.
They were like, she is so bossy, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 They're talking about it in therapy. Like,

Speaker 3 I'm like, I know, I know myself at this point. So I'm like, yeah, I don't do collaboration well.
I'm very bossy.

Speaker 2 No, that's completely fine. I was just like, you miss 100% of shots that you don't take.
So I had to because

Speaker 2 my hairstylist, I had read, I believe it was The Housemaid First. And then she was like, just.

Speaker 2 So consistent about asking me, was I reading Never Lie Yet? And so I was like, finally, let me read it. And so I think that's when I emailed you.

Speaker 3 Well, I was just excited to get the email.

Speaker 3 I mean, I have to tell you, like, I knew you were talking about my books, and I was so excited because, like, you're the first like celebrity who ever like mentioned, not that there have been a lot in general, but you're the first one.

Speaker 3 I was like, oh my God, somebody famous is talking about my books. And I was like, oh my God, I was so excited.
So,

Speaker 3 I will never forget that. It was so cool.

Speaker 2 I will remember that until the end of time. So, you have a new book coming out.
Well, when this interview airs, this book, The Boyfriend, will have been out.

Speaker 2 So, The Boyfriend came out October 1st, and I got an art copy of it and was able to read it. I rated it five stars on Goodreads.

Speaker 2 I'm obsessed with this book, first of all. So,

Speaker 2 can you tell us a little bit about how you came up with this story?

Speaker 3 Definitely. So, you know, I think,

Speaker 3 like,

Speaker 3 it was initially inspired by my mom because when I was a kid, my parents got divorced when I was like three years old.

Speaker 3 So, like, my earliest memories of like ages three through nine are like my mom dating, but old school dating. Like, what it was like, like, in the 80s, obviously dating myself now.

Speaker 3 Like, you had to, like, put personal ads like in the newspaper. Like, there was not even like Craigslist.
It was just like the newspaper. And there were these dances.

Speaker 3 And she, you know, we were alone together. So I heard about all of it, even though I was like, you know, savvy or something.

Speaker 3 So I think it just like stuck in my head as like something that's sort of like the dating game in New York City as just like this kind of fascinating thing. And it was a little scary.

Speaker 3 Like, I think I didn't even know how scared to be of my mom doing this when I was like a little kid. But,

Speaker 3 and, you know, now as an, you know, as an adult dating myself and my friends dating. And I just like, I just find it really interesting.

Speaker 3 And the other thing I just want to mention is like, I think there was like an inkstiness in my head then because

Speaker 3 my younger daughter is really into this singer named Melanie Martinez.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 she like plays this very, and I love her too. She plays this very kind of angsty, you know,

Speaker 3 songs about like relationships and like crazy relationships and she's wonderful. And I think that was just like playing in my head all the time.
So it kind of inspired me too, like her vibe.

Speaker 3 So that was her way.

Speaker 2 That was one of the biggest questions that I had gotten on social media when I said that we were doing this interview.

Speaker 2 People were like, Does she ever pull Inspo from her real life experiences or people? So that's actually really cool that this one specifically was inspired by like just real life experiences.

Speaker 3 So much of it is inspired by real life stuff.

Speaker 3 Like my, especially my younger daughter inspires a lot of characters she was actually um reading the inmate recently and she was like laughing she's like i said that like

Speaker 3 she's like you took that

Speaker 2 from a conversation we had and i was like yes i did That's probably so cool for her that she gets to, you know, she gets to see herself or like pieces of you, you guys, you know, in the books that she's reading.

Speaker 2 So that's really cool that you let her read the books that you write. That's awesome.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, she's, I think,

Speaker 3 I think my my books are pretty, I mean, they have moments that are a little bit less PG-13, but I think it's okay. You know, I don't curse a lot.
There's no TV sex scenes.

Speaker 3 I kind of, because I know my parents will read it. So that's always in my head.

Speaker 3 You know, so I make sure that they're, you know, something that I'm not embarrassed that anyone in my family will read it because they will. So, yeah.

Speaker 2 I actually just let my son, he's 14, and I let him read one of your books for the first time. And he picked that for our book club next month.
So, yeah, yeah, he loved it.

Speaker 2 And so I thought that was really cool. I do like that they're really,

Speaker 2 you know, for everybody.

Speaker 3 The books are for everyone. Yeah, I love that when, like, you know, a middle school age kid will message me and they're like, I loved your book.
And that always warms my heart.

Speaker 3 I'm like, young people reading makes me sensitive. Yes.

Speaker 2 That's actually what I actually said to, I just recently said that to one of my friends. I said, I really wanted, I got back into reading.
I wasn't really a super reader as a kid.

Speaker 2 And then I, a couple years ago, I just was like, let me start reading on planes because I actually have quiet time and I don't have kids when I'm traveling for work.

Speaker 2 And so I got back into reading and I said that to one of my girlfriends. They said, you know, I just want my kids to not see me on the phone all the time and to see me with a book.

Speaker 2 Like if they're going to see me doing anything, let it be with a book.

Speaker 2 And so even my toddler, he'll pick up books and like just kind of page through them, which I think is cool because I'm like, okay, now I know that this is setting a good example.

Speaker 3 Exactly. I love that you talk about like books so much in your social media because everybody's talking about everything but books.
It feels well, book talk, obviously they are.

Speaker 3 But like, you know, books are like. you know, kids don't read books anymore.
There's too many other things. Like when I was a kid, you know, I read because there was nothing else.

Speaker 3 Like, what can you do? Yeah.

Speaker 3 The only other thing is you go outside and play and want to do that. So, you know, there weren't options, but like the kids have so many options.

Speaker 3 So I love when people on social media are promoting books. I think that's so amazing that you do that.

Speaker 2 Well, thank you. I actually, I love that I don't scroll as much because I'm always reading.
And if I can't read, I listen.

Speaker 2 So that's been a really, that's been a huge game changer because even my kids will be in the car and be like, mom, is your book done?

Speaker 2 And I just laugh because I'm like, they know, like, they don't even realize that listening, reading, just flipping through books, that's, they're all really, really good habits.

Speaker 2 And so that's, I want to promote that more, you know, as I further myself in motherhood and my reading journey. So

Speaker 2 if someone is new to your books, can someone start with the boyfriend?

Speaker 3 Definitely. Definitely.
I mean, all my books are standalone.

Speaker 3 There's no book where I'm going to say, well, no, there are,

Speaker 3 no, I would say like if you have a child, they probably shouldn't start with like the teacher. Like, I prefer that.
Like that's the one book like I said to my kids, don't read that yet

Speaker 3 when you're 18. But I think any of them are good places to start.
I'm really proud of The Boyfriend. So if someone started there, I'd be thrilled.

Speaker 2 Oh, for sure. I hope that anyone that's listening to this that's new to their reading journey or new to Frida, definitely pick up The Boyfriend.

Speaker 2 I already promoted it all over my socials because it's so good. And for all the listeners who have not heard of The Boyfriend or they're about to go order it, what can they expect from this novel?

Speaker 3 It's about, it's sort of a typical dating novel in some ways, in that it's a woman who's, you know, on a dating scene. She's in her 30s.

Speaker 3 And one of her close friends is killed by a guy she was dating that she met on a dating app.

Speaker 3 So, and then she starts dating

Speaker 3 a new guy.

Speaker 3 Some things about him are a little sus,

Speaker 3 as my kids would say.

Speaker 3 So, and I think what's a little different is you get a different perspective from a long time ago of a teenage boy and some very dark things that happened to him.

Speaker 3 And they're sort of interwoven and it all comes together.

Speaker 2 So, I'm obsessed with the character development in this book, and you have nicknames like slug, and there's, you know, some eating bugs in here, and also ant farms, like just very quirky characteristics.

Speaker 2 And I absolutely love that. So, where'd you come up with those things?

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 going back to my daughter again, Mickey's crazy.

Speaker 3 So, she's very into bugs. We actually have right now in our house two praying mantises.
Their names are Fettuccini and Alfredo. We have a jumping spider named Smurfat.

Speaker 3 We have a roly-pully farm. They are not all named.

Speaker 3 So, she's very, very, very into bugs. And she actually wanted an ant farm.
And I remember saying to her, like, my husband was like supporting this. He's like, oh, this will be good.

Speaker 3 We should get her an ant farm. And she's, I'm like, they're going to get out.
And he's like, we will get out. I'm like, they'll definitely get out.
There's no way they're not getting out.

Speaker 3 It was like an argument about this. So a lot of that was kind of inspired by her love of bugs.
She actually wants to be an entomologist. I don't know if that will carry into adulthood, but.

Speaker 2 I mean, that's really cool. How many kids, no, no kids I know know what that is, but I learned about it in this book.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 2 I love that. I love that your daughter is teaching your readers about these things because

Speaker 2 that's really cool, though. For I just can't get over that, like being able to incorporate parts of your really, like, your personal life into these books.

Speaker 2 So, what? Did you always want to be an author?

Speaker 3 Am I an author? Sure.

Speaker 3 I'm still not sure.

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, no, no. No.

Speaker 3 You know, it was like, for me, it was just, like, it didn't seem, I know it's a real career, but like, it seemed like not a realistic career. It's sort of like being an actor or something.

Speaker 3 It's something where to be successful at it, like, as a career, you have to be very lucky, I think. A lot of people who write books, you know, they don't make a living off of it.

Speaker 3 You have to do other things. So, like,

Speaker 3 I'm a very practical person. I'm just like, I like to write and I did it constantly when I was a kid, but I like didn't think of it as like this is something I'll do as a career.

Speaker 3 Like it was never something that even occurred to me, honestly. So I just I knew I wanted to be a physician.
I was like that kid five years old. I want to be a doctor, you know.

Speaker 3 And then I did it. That's so cool though.

Speaker 2 So at what point in, you know, maybe your adult life or young adult life did you realize, okay, I'm gonna

Speaker 2 you decided you were gonna publish your first book?

Speaker 3 Well, I was always writing, like, I never really stopped, like, medical school, residency, maybe a little less, but you know, like, whenever I had time, I was always writing.

Speaker 3 And I did actually send books to publishers because, or agents, like, I tried to get an agent. I actually got an agent when I was 22, and I was so excited.
I was like, this is it, this is it.

Speaker 3 And then they sent it around to publishers for a year, and nothing happened. So I was like, I guess that that wasn't it.

Speaker 3 But, you know, I tried, got a lot of rejections.

Speaker 3 And then self-publishing became a thing.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh, I'll just do that. And, you know, at the time I had a blog I used to write in.
It's now gone.

Speaker 3 But, you know, I had an audience. So I was like,

Speaker 3 hey, audience, I wrote a book. Buy my book.
So, and, you know, people did. And I sold, I think, 500 copies.
and I was like, this is great. I've lived my dream of publishing a book.
Yeah. And

Speaker 3 that was going to be it.

Speaker 3 And then it just,

Speaker 3 then I got another idea. I was like, oh, I'll write another book.
And then I just kept getting ideas. And I was kind of like, I managed to publish one a year.

Speaker 3 And then I cut back a little on my job. And my kids got a little older.

Speaker 3 You actually have time when they get older again.

Speaker 3 And I was publishing a little more frequently and then it just, yeah, it really just took off all of a sudden and I didn't mean it to and I'm still kind of surprised.

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Speaker 2 So, is it more of like a passion project for you? Because you're, were you self-publishing all that time?

Speaker 3 Yeah, up until The House Mead was actually my first book that was not self-published.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Okay, so what book came directly before? I think, I think I own every single book that you've ever written all the way back to, I think the, is the first one Baby City?

Speaker 3 No, my first one is The Devil Wears Scraps.

Speaker 2 Okay, I have that one. I'm looking at it right now.
So I do have, I have them in alphabetical order, not publishing date.

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 2 you've been writing thriller or suspense novels since the beginning of time.

Speaker 3 So the Devilwear Scrubs is not suspense. That is,

Speaker 3 so I started out writing like women's fiction, but I always loved reading. suspense thrillers.
And at the point where I was like reading a lot of them, I was like, I could do this. And then I

Speaker 3 and then I started doing it. And I would say my first, like, I had some kind of medical-y thrillers.

Speaker 3 So I had Suicide Med, which I recently republished as Dead Med, which is, it's sort of a funny story. But

Speaker 3 just a little segue on this.

Speaker 3 You can't say the word,

Speaker 3 I think I could say it here, suicide. You can't say it on Facebook.
So

Speaker 3 the book, every time anyone mentioned the book, like the post would get deleted or it would get warnings. So I had to republish it as Dead Med.

Speaker 2 Which I have both. I have Suicide Med and Dead Med.
I just, that's probably my most recent one: the Dead Med. But you also

Speaker 2 edit it, edit it, edit it. I can't even say the word, edited it.

Speaker 3 I edited it. Yeah, there was a plot point in the original, and it was my first thriller.
The plot point

Speaker 3 was

Speaker 3 embarrassingly bad. Like, I wrote...

Speaker 3 It was, I'm not even going to say it.

Speaker 3 It was so stupid. Like, I don't...

Speaker 3 I was... I wrote the first draft of it when I was 26, I think,

Speaker 3 25, 26. So 25, you know, your brain is, like, not entirely myelinated.
The process is, you know, almost done, but, you know, you're 25. And so I edited it.

Speaker 3 when I published it, I was a little older, but I didn't see a way to take that part out. It was just bad, and it was embarrassing me.
Anytime anybody would be like, I read this book, Suicide Med,

Speaker 3 that was weird.

Speaker 3 I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 So, and you know, people, you know, I couldn't just say, backlist, who cares? You know, because people were reading it, like, a lot of people were reading it.

Speaker 3 And I finally, you know, I told my agent, Christina, I was like, I really want to redo this book. And she's like, oh, do, you know, is it that important? And I said, this is what happens in it.

Speaker 3 And she's like, Oh, yeah, you should definitely redo that right now.

Speaker 3 Should I just say what it is? Go ahead, yeah.

Speaker 3 Like, a character has an eye on his butt.

Speaker 3 So, yeah, like, you could see why I didn't want that in a book anymore. So, yeah, so I said to my agent, yeah, a character has a butt eye.
And she's like, Yeah,

Speaker 3 you should fix that. So,

Speaker 2 to be fair, you're a physician.

Speaker 3 So, I feel like some people are like, Yeah, this is realistic. This could happen.

Speaker 3 The doctor, maybe she's seen this happen.

Speaker 3 No, I have not seen this happen.

Speaker 3 You've never seen that.

Speaker 2 Okay, so now we've clarified that you've never actually seen it, but it is, it is, it could happen.

Speaker 3 Sure, could happen.

Speaker 3 So, anyway, I took it down off, you know, Amazon. I like, you know, I unpublished it.
I got the audio book down. But the thing with like the paperbacks is Amazon has to like sell out their stock.

Speaker 3 So I couldn't just like say to Amazon, like, throw all of the copies out. Like, they wouldn't do that.
Like, so,

Speaker 3 like, I took it down and people noticed that, oh my God, she unpublished this book. I have to get a copy.

Speaker 3 So, like, this book about the butte eye that i'm embarrassed for anyone to read suddenly is like number one on amazon beating like anthony fauci's book i'm just like oh my god and people are like oh you must have planned this i was like i did not plan this this is humiliating

Speaker 3 stop

Speaker 3 And finally they sold out on copies, but

Speaker 3 I did not plan this.

Speaker 2 I mean, I kind of love it just for conversational purposes. You'll always have this story to tell.

Speaker 2 And also, I did, I read a post, I believe it was by you on your Facebook fan group that basically was like, please don't read this. And so I won't read it.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Specifically for that post, but I will read it.

Speaker 3 I've heard what happens.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So I will read Dead Med, but I won't read Suicide Med for you.

Speaker 3 That's so.

Speaker 3 I'm a much better

Speaker 3 plotter than I was back when I published.

Speaker 2 But that speaks to your growth, right? Like as a writer and with all of your plot twists and things like that. I mean, I know, I guess, your newer works versus Suicide Men, but

Speaker 2 I'm always think that I'm on it. Like, I think I have it down to what's going to happen next.
And then every single time I'm wrong. So, how do you,

Speaker 2 one, how do you come up with the plot twists? And two, how do you teach yourself and learn from, you know, every book experience in writing the plot twists

Speaker 3 um i think you know what i've realized recently is it's not the twist is important and i don't know how i come up with them it's just my brain like i i

Speaker 3 but if i wasn't a doctor i probably would have become a mathematician because i was like on the math team i love puzzles so i'm this is like a puzzle in reverse for me like i'm okay with the puzzle

Speaker 3 um so i think that's like why i'm good at the twists but um i've realized recently like it's not even so much what the twist is, but

Speaker 3 the

Speaker 3 red herrings. Like if there's another twist that people think it's gonna be, that's actually even more important than the twist that it actually is.

Speaker 3 Like it's like when you're um they say like when you're on trial.

Speaker 3 Like if you're on trial for murder, like you not only want to convince the jury that you didn't do it, you want to give them another theory, like an alternate person who could have done it.

Speaker 3 And if they believe that, oh, this other person probably did it, they're not going to think you did it. So that's kind of what it's like.

Speaker 3 Like you're, you're giving them, you give them an alternate theory. And then I see a lot on Facebook.
People will be reading my books and they're like, I figured it out. I'm on the 10th page.
I know.

Speaker 3 So I try to... you know, to do that, to make people think they figured it out, but it's actually,

Speaker 3 you know, the alternate theory for court.

Speaker 2 Did you ever think about becoming a lawyer for that reason since you're kind of able to give people another theory? As

Speaker 2 you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 3 I think I'm not outgoing enough to be a lawyer. Like, all of the lawyers I know, like, they're very, like, they love performing, and I'm not like that.

Speaker 3 I'm a little, I'm more of an introvert,

Speaker 3 actually,

Speaker 3 like, writer, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I don't think I could perform in a courtroom. I think I'd be terrible at that.

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't know. I'm having a good time here.
We've laughed a lot. So I don't know.
I don't know. So when you were,

Speaker 2 I'm not sure where you stand in your career as a physician if you are still a practicing physician. But,

Speaker 2 you know, either way, how did you find the time to write

Speaker 2 while you are a physician? Because I would imagine that being a physician demands a lot of hours and time. And I'm sure you take some work home with you.

Speaker 2 And as you've mentioned, you have a husband and kids. So what was that like? Were there deadlines?

Speaker 2 were you ever stressed with you know writing and being a physician and a mom and a wife definitely like i um

Speaker 3 you know at first you know when i was self-publishing and i was doing one book a year it was fine it was like a hobby it was just like something to do you know

Speaker 3 like in my spare time the little spare time i had um and then i cut back my physician work um

Speaker 3 And at the point that I had a publisher, like I started working with source books and we were publishing a little bit more frequently and it was becoming more of a career.

Speaker 3 It started to feel like I'm doing two careers plus I've got two kids and I was like, I can't do all this. Like it was last summer, I believe, when

Speaker 3 I was trying to make it work because I didn't want to stop being a doctor. I love being a doctor.
And I was just like, I can't.

Speaker 3 I need to keep doing this, but I need to keep writing because I love that too. And I just couldn't choose.
And I think it was last summer when I was trying to write and things kept getting in the way.

Speaker 3 And I had no time. And I was like almost having panic attacks.
Like, how am I going to get this done? How am I going to get this done?

Speaker 3 And I finally like begged a retired co-worker to cover me for a week so I could just finish something I was working on. And he came and I got caught up.
And I'm like, I did it. I did it.

Speaker 3 And then a week later, I was just like completely behind again and stressed. And I was just like, no, I didn't do it.
I can't do it. And I realized I have to make a decision.

Speaker 3 I have to decide: am I going to do the writing thing or am I going to do the doctor thing?

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 the writing thing is, like, I love being a doctor, but the writing thing is like my passion. And it's one of those things, like,

Speaker 3 you know, if I let this opportunity go, like, it might never come back to me. Like, I'll always have my medical license.
I can go back to that. But I felt like I had to see through this writing thing.

Speaker 3 And I still do work as a doctor. I come in on weekends and when they need people then.
And I also like cover vacations and I do some teaching with the residents. So

Speaker 3 I do still keep my hands in it. I keep my skills up so that

Speaker 3 10 years from now, maybe things are not going so well in the writing world. I'll go back to being a doctor again.

Speaker 3 But I just couldn't do it all, especially with my my kids still at home.

Speaker 2 For sure. I mean, kids in any profession is, I mean, just that balance, that work-life balance, I think is tough.

Speaker 2 But I think it's kind of cool that you still get to keep your hands in being a physician and keeping your skills up because it's almost like your careers flipped places.

Speaker 2 So you didn't really give one up completely for the other, but you know, where being a physician took precedence before and then writing was your passion project on the side.

Speaker 2 Now they've kind of flipped. So I think that, I mean, you're doing an incredible job balancing everything.
So, I think that's awesome.

Speaker 2 When you're writing, do you kind of go into your writing process with an idea already sort of formed? Or do you sit down and maybe you have nothing and you come up with it just when you start writing?

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's the whole plotter versus pantser. Pantser beans, like you come up with it, but if you do your pants, like I do think that needs explanation if you've never heard it before.

Speaker 3 So yeah, I am definitely a plotter.

Speaker 3 You know what the twist, like if you're coming up with a puzzle and you need to know like how it ends,

Speaker 3 you can't come up with that.

Speaker 3 You're going to write yourself into a corner if you do that. I have to know where it's going other so I could set it up.
and have it like come to this final conclusion.

Speaker 3 And I'm not somebody who writes out every little scene, like I wrote a little notebook with all the scenes, but I do know what the twist is going to be. I know where the major characters are.

Speaker 3 I know what the general plot arc is going to be. And I spend months like planning it out in my head and thinking about it and all the characters.

Speaker 3 And my other thing that I do is I tell my husband the plot.

Speaker 3 And he will say to me, like, that sucks. Do better.
He doesn't give me ideas.

Speaker 3 He has a math PhD, so he's very analytical too. And so, like, he'll poke holes in it.
He's like, well, no one would really do that. Or, like, that's ridiculous.
That's a terrible twist.

Speaker 3 And, like, so, and then I'll say, like, well, do you have any ideas? He's like, no, you're the writer.

Speaker 3 So, yeah. So, but, you know, if he says it's cool, then I'm like, okay,

Speaker 3 I can run with this. Like, that's really what I'm looking for.
I'm like, the thumbs up or the thumbs down. So

Speaker 3 I make sure I get that thumbs up before I writing.

Speaker 2 You and your husband seem to be debunking the theory that if you're good at math and sciences, you're not the best writer.

Speaker 2 Because I feel like if your husband has a PhD in math and you're a doctor and would have been, you know, in the math field, this goes against everything we're taught in school.

Speaker 2 So I just need the younger listeners of this podcast and younger Frida readers to

Speaker 2 keep an open mind because just because you're good at math doesn't mean you can't write and vice versa.

Speaker 3 That is true. I love math.
I'm actually relearning calculus right now because my

Speaker 3 teenager is taking calculus and I'm like, I need to like bone up on it.

Speaker 3 And I'm like having so much fun. I'm like going through the problem.
I'm like, I love this.

Speaker 2 Well, your next character, there's the inspiration for your next book and your next character. She or he can be math and a writer.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker 3 I keep telling my husband he and I should write, not a whole book, but maybe like a novella together because

Speaker 3 a whole book, I think we kill each other. Like, as I was telling you, I can't collapse.
But he said, you know, you would have to basically tell me exactly what to write.

Speaker 3 Like, so he's willing to be bossed around. But I mean, fair, fair.
He's like, if you could, like, tell me every scene and like, he's like, maybe I'll do it.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, I would definitely buy it. I think that would be fantastic.
I think people are very invested, too, in who you are outside of writing.

Speaker 2 I've seen so many theories about who you are, your identity. And I actually read

Speaker 2 a theory this morning that AI actually writes your books. Have you seen that?

Speaker 3 Oh, all of, I mean, that is, like, it's funny you say that because that is like the theory with every author that, like,

Speaker 3 every author, really. They're like, they're like, yeah, they're probably AI.
I've seen it a ton. And me and

Speaker 3 other authors, I don't want to mention anyone by name, but I saw a couple others being really upset over it. And I'm not upset.
I mean, I think,

Speaker 3 I don't know, it's almost a compliment. They're like, this is so, this seems like

Speaker 3 the perfection of a machine. I don't know.

Speaker 2 No, I agree.

Speaker 3 When I read that, it was like funny.

Speaker 2 That's how you know she's good. If you think that AI wrote the books, then you know she's good.

Speaker 3 If you actually like use chat GPT and like like see what it comes up with though, like it would never like have something like as dark as a murder. Like

Speaker 3 there's it's so like gentle. Like it would be like and he killed her, but he then he felt really bad and he turned himself in.

Speaker 3 Like it couldn't like AI is like they're being very careful to keep it from getting evil. I think they're reprogramming it into

Speaker 3 compassion or something. So and then with AI, it's like super nice.

Speaker 2 They want to keep it nice for so that they can continue using AI, I think.

Speaker 2 So I have read rumors and I've heard rumors that several of your books have been picked up for TV or and or movie adaptations. One, can you confirm it or deny this?

Speaker 2 And two, if so, are you allowed to say which ones?

Speaker 3 I'm allowed to say some.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So The Housemaid, I can't give all the details, but that was picked up by hidden pictures pictures/slash Lionsgate.

Speaker 3 And we have a script, so that's very exciting. I don't know if I'm allowed to say anymore, but that one is very excited about.

Speaker 3 And the co-worker was picked up by Sony, and a script is in the works, and they have two really amazing script writers working on it. And that I think they're going for a TV show.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 3 Never Lie was picked up by

Speaker 3 Netflix and 21 Laps with Sean Levy. So it's like the

Speaker 3 Wolverine

Speaker 3 Deadpool. Yeah, yeah.
And I was like, oh my God, I saw that article. And I had just seen the movie, too, which I loved.
I'm like a massive like, you know, Marvel fan. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I was just like, oh, my God, I didn't even know it was the same beautiful.

Speaker 3 I'm like clueless about everything. And I was like, so proud of that article.
I was like sending it to everyone like, Deadpool is making my movie.

Speaker 3 That's what it was, right? Deadpool's making my movie. That was my assessment of the whole thing.

Speaker 2 I love that, though. That's so exciting.
So, will you get a hand in any of the casting?

Speaker 3 Probably not. Like, people are asking me.
They're like, can I be in your movie?

Speaker 3 I'm thinking of any way to make that happen.

Speaker 3 I'm, you know, I'm just excited to see who they cast. So

Speaker 3 I definitely don't think I'm going to get much say in it, but that's okay. I mean,

Speaker 2 I have a couple ideas for Millie's character.

Speaker 2 We talk about this a lot in book club. When we read a book, the first question I ask is who we would cast for characters if something got picked up.

Speaker 2 And I also just want to say that I absolutely love Dawn Shift. Like we are big, big co-worker fans in my book club.

Speaker 2 In order to be initiated into book club, you have to read the co-worker and we refer to each other as turtles because we just love it. And I saw your post.

Speaker 2 So you did a post in your Facebook group talking about how, you know, you see sort of like the negative comments or feedback that you get on the books.

Speaker 2 And I think one of the lines said that you were like, I get it, that the turtles were overkill. I personally don't agree.
I loved it. I loved on shift and I loved the turtles.

Speaker 2 I did not think it was overkill.

Speaker 3 I'm glad to hear that. You know, you never know.
Like, I gave this to a beta reader before publication, and she actually said more turtles. She's like, add more turtles.

Speaker 3 Like, nobody prior to publication was like, this could be too many turtles. Like, that was never hinted at.
Like, that's the weird thing about publication. Like, what you hear, like,

Speaker 3 prior to the ARC advanced copies going out is totally different from what you hear when the advanced copies go out, and that's totally different from what you hear when everybody gets it.

Speaker 3 So, like, the turtle thing, that I kind of heard pretty quickly, but like, there are other things that, like, I didn't realize, you know,

Speaker 3 like were issues until like the book was to the masses. And at that point, you really can't change anything.

Speaker 3 So, um, self-publishing you could change a lot, like, when it's in advanced copies. But I'm glad that like I didn't know about that because you know it like

Speaker 3 I think people

Speaker 3 it's hard I wanted Dawn to be a certain kind of person and I think if I cut back in the turtles it would have it would have hurt her character in my head so I agree

Speaker 2 I love Dawn I don't in my opinion I didn't see anything wrong anything else wrong with the I didn't think anything was wrong with the book to begin with um

Speaker 2 and if anything it added to her quirkiness I mean that's what I said about the boyfriend I loved the nickname and the quirks with the bugs. And, you know, I just loved all of that.

Speaker 2 I think that it sets it apart from other thrillers and suspense novels that we read. You know, so if you're a suspense girly or

Speaker 2 guy and you read suspense novels, that's something that's missing from other books that we read, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 I have my own personal question about the housemaid is watching. So in the housemaid is watching, there's a line that you wrote in the book that said something along the lines of

Speaker 3 the third book in a series is never the best.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 we talk about that. So, yeah, like

Speaker 3 I'm not gonna lie and say that book is easy for me to read. And like, I really wanted to write it.
I'm sorry, easy for me to write. I really, really wanted to write it.

Speaker 3 And it wasn't like about money or anything. I just felt like there was more to the story.
Like, and my readers wanted it so much.

Speaker 3 And I was just like, I really want to give it this end. I had an idea and I was like, I love this idea.
But, you know, sometimes you're writing a book and it's flowing.

Speaker 3 And you're like, the words are just

Speaker 3 flying onto the page. And it wasn't happening with this one.
And part of it was just, that was the summer that I was struggling

Speaker 3 just

Speaker 3 between careers.

Speaker 3 But I was just, I was struggling a lot with the book and I was scared because I wanted it to be great. Like, I wanted so badly for people to love it.

Speaker 3 I didn't want it to just be like, oh, she just did this as a money grab. I wanted so badly for people to be like, this is the ending we were hoping for.
I wanted, you know, I really wanted that.

Speaker 3 So,

Speaker 3 like, but you know, I was not connecting as much. And I had that problem with the first two books, too.

Speaker 3 So I wasn't 100% worried about it yet, but I put in that line just because it almost like took the pressure off of me.

Speaker 3 I felt like, you know what? Like,

Speaker 3 you know, it doesn't have to be the most amazing thing that's ever been written ever. You know, like, there are going to be people who don't love it as much as the first two.

Speaker 3 Like, I've read series where I love the first two and didn't like the third one. And I was like, and that's okay if people don't like it as much as the first two.

Speaker 3 Like, just write the book you want to write, tell the story you want to tell, and it's okay.

Speaker 3 And it sort of like, it almost like freed me up after writing that line to just be like, okay, like I don't have to put so much pressure on myself. This is going to be okay.

Speaker 2 And it absolutely was okay. And I love that.
For one, I mean, just even talking about it on the podcast, I feel like humanizes you.

Speaker 2 And so for anybody who didn't maybe love it or maybe didn't love it as much as they liked the first two, I think this will give them some context and understand that, I mean, you're an author, but you're human too, right?

Speaker 2 And so you wanted to write it, like you said, and you want, the the readers wanted it. So you did your best.
I loved it. I feel like it put a little bit of you in the book.

Speaker 3 Like, if my daughter ever reads it, she's just going to be, well, or the praying mantis in the book, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
I didn't even think about that. You're right.
The praying mantis.

Speaker 3 Dino read about it. And she did once interrupt us to tell us that the praying mantis is molting.

Speaker 3 so

Speaker 3 funny I know I love that yeah now I'm blushing

Speaker 3 but yeah

Speaker 2 so if you you were having you were going through some stuff at the time when you were writing that but and and maybe didn't connect the way that you wanted to do you have a most favorite book out of all of the ones that you've written or a couple favorites um I mean I loved the boyfriend was an easy one to write I really enjoyed that one the Inmate is another one that like I really connected with.

Speaker 3 I was like super excited to write it. And I was just, you know, rereading it when we re-released it.
And I was like, oh, I love this book. You know, that's another of my favorites.

Speaker 2 Okay. And do you have a favorite character from any of the books? Um,

Speaker 3 you know, I always

Speaker 3 don't want to, I don't want to say because then, like, if I say, you know, I love this guy, you'll know if he's good or bad. So, okay.

Speaker 3 Okay. No spoilers.

Speaker 3 Fair.

Speaker 2 I actually, if I ever had another child,

Speaker 2 I love the name Miller and Millie. Like those two are so good.
And Millie for a girl, I just love that so much.

Speaker 2 And I have a feeling that we're gonna see a huge surge in Millie and Enzo as names in the coming years.

Speaker 3 So cool. Like I I was just, you know, watching um Friends, my one of my favorite shows.

Speaker 3 I saw an old episode and I remember like when Rachel named her baby Emma, like every child was named Emma for a while.

Speaker 3 And just to be part of anybody naming their child something because of me, like, oh my God, that's just like, so cool.

Speaker 2 So cool. So cool.
No, I totally agree. So

Speaker 2 in terms of reading reviews, good reads, just, you know, knowing the feedback that you get from your readers, how do you deal with the negative feedback, if any?

Speaker 2 And does it affect you in your personal life?

Speaker 3 I think, you know, obviously good reviews are great. I love good reviews, but I feel like I learn a lot from bad reviews.
Like I read, especially the early ones.

Speaker 3 I just want to know, I want to grow as a writer. I want to know too many turtles, or well, you know, whatever.
Like, I want to know what I did, and I definitely learned from them. And, like,

Speaker 3 so they're important to me. Like, of course, I wish every review is like amazing, but and sometimes they're entertaining.
So,

Speaker 3 like, here's an aside. So, um,

Speaker 3 I recently published, I don't know if you saw it, like, a satirical novella. I bought it.

Speaker 3 So it's called The Widow's Husband's Secret Lie. So it's basically like 150 pages of me making fun of myself.

Speaker 3 So, you know, in general, you know, while good review, bad reviews are hard to hear, I felt like in this case, because the whole thing was just meant to be like a joke, like,

Speaker 3 I actually was really amused by some of the bad reviews. I thought they were really funny.

Speaker 3 And I actually,

Speaker 3 because they're like making fun of me making fun of myself. It's like very meta somehow.
So, so actually, if you'll indulge me, so

Speaker 3 I actually, I wrote down some of them,

Speaker 3 some of the bad reviews of the novel. Yeah.
So I was recently discovered,

Speaker 3 if you watch Jimmy Kimmel, he has this thing where celebrities read mean tweets about themselves. Have you ever seen this?

Speaker 2 Oh yeah, I've seen these and they're so funny.

Speaker 3 They're so funny. And I watched them and I'm like jealous because I'm like, I want to read mean stuff about myself.

Speaker 3 So I wrote down

Speaker 3 some of these reviews and I'm like if it's okay to do a dramatic reading of these. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. We love this.

Speaker 3 Okay. So I'm not an actor like they are, so I'll just do my best.

Speaker 3 Okay. I had no idea what a satirical novel was going into this.
And it's safe to say, now that I do know, that I absolutely cannot stand this kind of novel. Literally, the worst.

Speaker 3 Not funny at all, just bad.

Speaker 3 No,

Speaker 3 just no.

Speaker 3 This is the dumbest book I have ever read in my life.

Speaker 3 I don't know if this was all a joke. It was only like 150 pages and was weird the entire way through.
This attempt at humor was shitty and the twists were useless.

Speaker 3 Note to self, don't read another one of Ms. McFadden's satirical novels.

Speaker 3 So stupid, LOL.

Speaker 3 Still thinking about how stupid this was.

Speaker 3 This one's just like an eye roll. It's just like an eye roll emoji.
That was like the whole review. Like,

Speaker 3 fair. It's fair.

Speaker 3 I didn't find it funny. Mostly just Frida making fun of her own books, which is what I do too.

Speaker 3 I have never read a satirical novel before, and now I understand why.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 that was my dramatic reading.

Speaker 3 I mean, I loved it.

Speaker 2 I feel like that should be the clip in and of itself, is you reading those. But I just, what do people think when they're reading when they're writing these reviews? I would love to know.

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 thought these were kind of funny, but

Speaker 2 they were funny. I just, I don't,

Speaker 3 especially. I was just like, yeah, that could sum it up.
Like, I can imagine, like, if my husband were to review that book, that would be

Speaker 2 he'd be like, this is so dumb. Or what did he say to you? Oh, that's a that's a terrible idea.

Speaker 3 Yeah, this is so stupid, lol.

Speaker 2 I mean, at least you're getting some entertainment out of the reviews.

Speaker 3 Yeah, like I can only, you know, if you can't laugh at yourself, like, that's, you know, especially as a writer, like,

Speaker 3 you know, if you're like, you know, you could, if you're like, some people think of a brain surgeon, not a brain surgeon.

Speaker 3 But, like, if you go to a brain surgeon and they're like, ah, I'm so bad at this. Like, that's not good.
You don't want that. But, like,

Speaker 2 I hope I never go to a surgeon that says that.

Speaker 3 Right. But, like, an author, you could just, you know, you could say, okay, you know, some people like it, some people don't.
I'm not, you know, who's an amazing? I'm not Shakespeare.

Speaker 3 Not, you know, who's somebody objectively amazing. Like, I'm, you know, some people like it, some people don't.

Speaker 2 There was a, I don't remember the name of it. It was like

Speaker 2 the couple across the street in the, I don't remember, it was like a satire.

Speaker 3 I think it was like the Kristen Bell, it was like a Netflix. I didn't see it.
I think I saw the ads for it, but yeah, the couple, the window, woman watching, I think it was a spoof of

Speaker 3 the woman in the window or something like that.

Speaker 2 Yes, and I didn't know what satire was before that. And I fall for it every time.
Like even on TikTok, there's accounts that are specifically satire. And I fall for it every single time.

Speaker 2 And sometimes it takes people,

Speaker 2 but that's what it is. It's entertaining, if nothing else.
And then I call myself out later and be like, I didn't even realize that was satire. I didn't realize that was rage bait.
And you know what?

Speaker 2 It's all entertainment. So

Speaker 3 I don't take anything very seriously. I feel like, you know, in life, you got to laugh at yourself.
You got to laugh at things. And, you know, that's, otherwise, you just go crazy.

Speaker 2 So do you think you'll write another satirical novella?

Speaker 3 I feel like I got it out of my system.

Speaker 3 But, you know, who knows? But

Speaker 3 I'm not planning any. It was sort of a one-time thing.
I think I got all my books in there. I kind of said what I needed to say.
So

Speaker 3 it's not on the agenda.

Speaker 2 Okay, that's fair. Do you have any sequels or other

Speaker 2 interconnected books happening or in in the works?

Speaker 3 Maybe not. I just feel like, you know, sometimes I love the characters and I want to like continue them, but I feel like just the presence of a sequel with a thriller is sort of like a spoiler.

Speaker 3 So like if I were writing romance, sure, I could, you know, bang out the sequels, but like just like a character from the first book being in the second one is a spoiler.

Speaker 3 So I don't know how to do it in a way that doesn't spoil the first book.

Speaker 3 So I'm mostly focusing on standalone now. I don't know if I'll ever do another series.
I don't want to say never, but it's definitely not a thought in my head right now.

Speaker 2 So when I finished Ward D, at the, I believe it was Ward D, at the end, it starts, it shows you like a passage from the inmate.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I believe.

Speaker 2 I wasn't paying attention. I don't know what I was doing, but I was like, oh my God, there's a sequel.
And I thought that it was a sequel. It's not a sequel.

Speaker 2 So I realized, so my hairstylist, also friend, she was like, Kale, that is not, because I texted her, I was like, did you see the sequel?

Speaker 3 And she was like, not a sequel.

Speaker 2 Kale, I need you to go back and like reread what you just sent me because that's absolutely not a sequel. And I was cracking up because I clearly wasn't paying attention.
But

Speaker 2 I get what you're saying.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 what's funny is, like, you know, other people have been fooled by that.

Speaker 3 Like, I just want to say, like, somebody once sent me an email and they thought that that extra chapter was part of the book, and they were like, I don't understand that last chapter, what it had to do with everything else, like, you kind of ruined it with that last chapter.

Speaker 3 And, like,

Speaker 3 that's a different book, but yeah.

Speaker 2 Pay attention because if anyone is listening to this and you get to the end, and there is a passage for, you know, what's next, probably not a sequel. Pay attention.

Speaker 2 At that point, you just send them a link to the book itself and be like, here you go. Like, maybe they

Speaker 3 understand.

Speaker 2 That's so funny. So, if there's anything that you could say to your readers or future readers that maybe haven't started any of your books yet,

Speaker 2 what would it be? What would you say?

Speaker 3 I guess I would just say, like,

Speaker 3 to my readers who are already reading my books, I want to say thank you because, you know,

Speaker 3 like... My readers are like incredible.
Like, they're so supportive and nice. I have this reader Facebook group and people are so nice.
Like, sometimes I'm reading it, I'm just like almost crying.

Speaker 3 I'm like, you guys are are so nice.

Speaker 3 And, you know, to people like who haven't read my books, I just want to say, like, you know, just have fun. These books are supposed to be fun.
They're not supposed to be, it's not war and peace.

Speaker 3 It's supposed to be a good time. Like, I always look at it as a fun ride.
And, you know, don't. You don't have to read into it deeply.
Like, just have fun with it.

Speaker 3 And if you're not having fun, then, you know, maybe I'm not for you. And that's okay.

Speaker 2 No, I absolutely love these books. They brought me out, they bring me out of reading slumps, got me really right back into reading.
And if anyone needs a recommendation, come to me. I'm your girl.

Speaker 2 I will send you all the recommendations, free to books. I own, I think, every single one.

Speaker 2 But for those who may be interested in starting their journey as an author, do you have any advice as far as self-publishing or how to get started?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I am I have a lot of real friends, real life friends who are like starting out as authors. And

Speaker 3 I'm, I mean, my main advice is just do it. Just do it.
You know, like, don't sit on it. Don't, you know, like, you learn by doing.

Speaker 3 My first thriller had a butt eye in it, okay?

Speaker 3 So, like, whatever is in your book, it's not as bad as that. I mean, it can't be.
Where else could the eye be?

Speaker 3 So, you know, just do it because you'll learn from it. You'll learn.
Don't put up bad eyes in your book.

Speaker 3 Or other things. You'll learn other things too.

Speaker 3 But, you know, and I also recommend this book called

Speaker 3 Save the Cat Writes a Novel. And it's an excellent book about how to plot a novel.
And I've learned a lot about plotting over the years.

Speaker 3 Like, I used to think that, like, a book was just a bunch of things that happen and there doesn't have to be any cohesion, but, you know, like, there does need to be a plot.

Speaker 3 So a book like that will really teach you about the plot arc. So I recommend that to everyone.
It's very helpful.

Speaker 3 Like I could tell like when I my friends who like after they read it, their plots get so much tighter. So I highly recommend that.
So but yeah, just do it.

Speaker 3 Like self-publishing is a thing and you know you're you're only gonna learn from experience.

Speaker 2 For sure. I would agree with that.

Speaker 2 Oh, and really quickly, someone else also asked if you have a a favorite book or a favorite author yourself.

Speaker 3 I have so many.

Speaker 3 Recently, I've actually been binging Stephen King audiobooks. Oh, yeah.
And

Speaker 3 he's a favorite of mine when I was younger. And I'm like listening, and I've discovered audiobooks recently and love them.

Speaker 3 I'm listening to the Institute now, and I'm just like, it's so good. And the narrator is so good.

Speaker 3 And like, I'm just like looking forward to doing things that I can, like, put them, you know, my earphones in and listen. It's so right now, that's like, you know, my book of enjoyment.
Love it.

Speaker 3 I love that.

Speaker 2 And where can people find you for anyone who is listening that wants to join your Facebook group or follow you on socials? Where can they find you?

Speaker 3 So I've got a reader group on Facebook. You could search for Frida McFans

Speaker 3 or Frida McFadden Facebook reader group, something like that. It'll pop up.
I'm on Instagram. You can follow me.
You could also just follow me on Facebook.

Speaker 3 But the group is really fun because I post there a lot and I try to read most of the posts. And I do a lot of giveaways there of like signed copies.

Speaker 3 And if there are signed copies for sale, like I'll announce it first in that group because they do sell out quickly. So

Speaker 3 any news, I'll put in that group first. So you get dibs.
So that's where I hope people go.

Speaker 2 Once people told me about that group, I immediately was like running to join the group. And I love it there.
I've seen a lot of support just for you.

Speaker 2 Even if they have criticism, it's constructive, I feel, mostly.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, people are very nice.

Speaker 3 And like, sometimes the other mods will, like, if somebody says, oh, I didn't like this book, they'll like reject the post because they don't want me to feel hurt, but I'll always let it through.

Speaker 3 I'm like, yeah, that's like nothing.

Speaker 3 Much more.

Speaker 3 At least they didn't use the trash bin emoji or a a poop emoji. Like, if they didn't use one of those two emojis, I consider it a nice reveal.

Speaker 2 See, that's so nice that you are like welcoming all types of opinions and reviews.

Speaker 3 No, I just want to know, like, like, I just want to get better and know what people think.

Speaker 2 So, well, I love that. You have the boyfriend that is out now.
You guys can get your copy on Amazon, your local bookstore, anywhere you guys get your books.

Speaker 2 I believe most of your books are on Kindle Unlimited. Is that right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, so most, almost all of my e-books are on Kindle Unlimited. Yeah.
So you can get it for free if you have Kindle Unlimited.

Speaker 2 And then you guys can also pre-order The Crash that comes out January 2025. I already have it pre-ordered, which I'm so excited about.

Speaker 3 I'll have to get you an ARC, though.

Speaker 2 I would be happy to read one. I'll never turn down one of your ARCs.
That would be fantastic. So you guys can pre-order that one on Amazon as well or wherever you guys pre-order your books.

Speaker 2 And thank you so, so much for joining us on Verily Famous.

Speaker 3 Thank you for having me. It's been so much fun.

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